2.Don't go stepping on toes.
Abandon the ego. The first thing you have to realize is that you are not allowed to make any character you want. Cry and moan about that if you want, but you are just as restricted as the other players and the DM. Know that shitty DM that railroads you wherever he wants or that guy in your group that has an evil drow assassin while everyone else is playing human paladins? They've exceeded their boundaries. They've sacrificed the integrity of the game for their lame desires.
To start, look first at the setting and the game itself. No one cares that you've only played D&D, they're still going to be pretty pissed that you're trying to bring your male eladrin wizard into MaidRPG. You have to be far more flexible than that. After you've taken a look at the setting, don't even start thinking about a character concept yet. Oh fucking christ do not even start thinking at all yet. First talk to the other players, see what they're doing, and listen to their suggestions just as often as you give out your own.

3.Don't you dare start thinking about a character yet or I'll cut your eyeballs.
You know that great idea for a character you have? Stop. Put it on the back burner, and leave it there. The most important part of making a good character is understanding. Understanding as much as you possibly can before even starting with that "concept" you've got. Your race, your class, your job, your age, your peculiarity, all of that doesn't matter just yet. Yes, even if you're just going to play a battle heavy game of 4e, even if you've been dying to try this character idea out, even if there's a gun against your head that will fire if you don't pick a race right now. Don't commit to anything before you are quite sure.

4. What is "Quite sure?"
Being quite sure is understanding the underlying elements of your preferences. You want to play an elf? Why do you want to play an elf? What is it about an elf that's appealing? You like their grace and serenity? Why do you like their grace and serenity? You like them because they give the character a sense of nobility and maturity? Why do you want to give your character a sense of nobility and maturity? etc. etc.
In order to make a good character, you're going to have to invest a bit of brain power into understanding your preferences within a game. You are going to have to look back at what you liked in games (and if you say you liked winning or being powerful, you are asking questions that lead to fruitless answers), and what things you liked best.

5. Your mechanics should reflect your character.
Do not make your character's stats first and then fill in his personality and background afterwards. Do not make your character's personality and background first and then fill in his mechanics. Do them at the same time, bit by bit. Take the time to slowly form the concept, and be ready to sacrifice some ability if it doesn't work with his background or to change his personality if it doesn't work with his stats.

5 1/2. Go back to step 1, and continue down the numbers again. If you've somehow managed to reach this point in under an hour with a character practically finished, you're character is a piece of shit everyone will hate, and you shouldn't even put it on the backburner, but throw it out. Now go back and rethink your character from the start, examining all the smallest, most minuscule details to the point in which you start to hate everyone and the world. It'll be worth it, because not only will you have more fun playing this character, everyone around you won't end up fantasizing about killing you.

6. Your character evolves.
Even if you're committed to a character you've made after a great, great, great deal of inner meditation, you have to be willing to understand that changes will occur within the game to this character. You may want him to be well known for being fearless, but he might eventually fail a will save at the most crucial point in a battle. You may want your cop to be meek and afraid to use his gun as anything other than a threat, but he might have to shoot a crook to save his partner's life. Make sure you keep this in mind while you make your character.

7. The Golden Rule: View your character objectively.
Got some sort of almost formed character in your head? Okay. Now, you know that guy in your group that you like the least? Imagine him playing this character. If you didn't get a little pissed, you've either done something horribly right or perfectly wrong, with the latter infinitely more common. Keep in mind that you always like things that you've made better than things you've haven't, and your vision is going to be miserably skewed whenever you look at your own character. Imagining him being someone else's character helps a little.

8. Don't automatically defend your character.
If someone doesn't like your character, don't rise up to the character's defense all hot and bothered like some white knight. If someone's accusing him of being broken, they've probably got a good basis for that if they've bothered to tell you. If they don't like something else, make sure you take their comments seriously. Your fellow players are a valid source of opinions, and make sure you really, really examine their criticisms before you either accept them or dismiss them.

9. Roleplaying games are not Games. Roleplaying games are not stories or movies or books.
Roleplaying games are an entity of their own, and this should be remembered in all steps of the character creation process. If you're making your character like one you'd play in a video game, don't. If you're making one like you would for a story, you'd best stop right there and flush whatever notes you have right out. Keep in mind what this character is going to be used for, and make sure you begin to understand exactly what that means.

10. The list of things to avoid.
Do not try to make your character stronger or weaker than everyone else's. Do not detail his appearance for more than one or two sentences, with three being the absolute maximum. No one gives a flying fuck about their eye color. Do not use the character to act out personal fantasies created by your own shortcomings. Do not wear nostalgia goggles. Do not lie to yourself. Do not pretend to understand when you don't understand. Do not make Drizzt. Nowhere in your character's description should be the words "badass", "antihero", "chain-smoking", "devious", "anti-social", "flirtatious", "omnipotent", "explosively flatulent", "D-cup", "quadriplegic", "bishie", "kawaii", or "awesome". Do not expect your character to be considered good simply because he is ugly while everyone else is playing a good looking character. Do not detach yourself from your character when bad things happen to him. Don't think that the DM should be the only who has to prepare for hours before each game. Don't forget that though it isn't a chore or a job, it's still a responsibility. Don't forget, above all else, that you are supposed to enjoy making and playing the character.

>SAGE

I've never played a Tabletop RPG in my life...and probably never will....but thank you just the same.

Bump for important, relevant thread that all fa/tg/uys should read.

In all honesty, something like this should be given to all people who play in RPG's before they make their first character.

>Player

This is how I goof-off.

This guide could save people a lot of tears.

relevant copypasta time

Tips for every kind of player:

1) Know what you want from a game, and let the GM know this. This way, you're much more likely to have the kind of game that interests you-- for example, you may like dungeoncrawling much more than you like focusing on roleplaying and creating a story. You're going to be pretty bored if your GM is focusing on building subtle relationships between NPCs or something.

2) Helping the GM is not actually a bad thing. The game doesn't have to be GM vs. Players, and when you work together to create interesting challenges for your character (for example, in your backstory or with flaws), it can be very rewarding in the end.

Tips for good roleplaying:

3) Decide on motivations for your character. This is essential to really understand who you're playing, and it's often the key to good roleplaying. What drives your character? Define goals of any sort. They can be long-term or short-term, unattainable or within reach. This will give the GM delicious plot hooks, and you are already on your way toward creating an interesting story.

>>2811783

Choke on a cock. Seriously.

4) Give yourself a little time to settle into the character. I know it takes me around 2 or 3 sessions before I can easily slip into character and make decisions as that character without having to really think about it. There's also the fact that you might start out with one idea and end up actually playing another-- talk to your GM about tweaking your sheet if necessary, since trying to force what you're naturally playing into stats that don't fit is painful. With my favorite character, I started out with a rather different personality on the sheet than who I ended up playing, and it was definitely the right thing to adjust my stats. Note that this shouldn't be an excuse to change things that you don't like; it should be personality-oriented.

5) FLAWS. It doesn't matter if you want to play someone awesome and competent; the story will benefit if your character is flawed in some way, and you CAN do that and play someone powerful at the same time. Flaws don't have to be crippling, they just have to indicate SOME sort of weakness, whether it's mental, physical, social, personality-wise, whatever. They also should be real flaws, not stupid "quirky" shit that never actually negatively affects the character's life in some way (think back to Mary Sue cliches-- too pretty, a little clumsy, too trusting... Though to an extreme, minus the first one, these CAN actually be flaws. You have to use them right) Flaws make your character more realistic as a character.

>>2811909
...Shit, I'm not sure, but I might have written that. Where are you copypasting from?

If this sounds like too much work for you, play a barbarian.

>>2811925
OH GOD MY CLONE FOUND THE INTERNET
WHAT HAVOC WILL RESULT?!

(I wrote it.)

what's wrong with saying that my 18 charisma half elf lesbian ninja has a D-cup?

>>2811934
YOU MEAN "WE".

> Do not make your character's stats first and then fill in his personality and background afterwards

Gonna have to disagree here, chief. You make your stats, figure out what your party needs, and THEN you make something within those boundaries. You make something fun for you within those boundaries - there's room to do that unless there's like seven or ten people within your group.

>>2811937
It's already assumed.

>>2811934
Oh. It just sounds a lot like something I wrote in a similar vein in a similar thread. Good advice.

>>2811941
YES MA'AM.
(I should not have lol'd at that. I think it was the capslock.)

>>2811943
Not for most games that aren't DnD, buddy.

>>2811943
*spoiler*
No party ever "needs" anything in regards to mechanics, since the DM can modify the encounters and loot at will.

Also, the next line after that agrees with you.

>>2811959
most games (as in, people playing right now) are some sort of D&D, y'know, and there other games with the same situation.

>>2811959
Except it's so. Exalted? "Hey, we need an eclipse". Mage? "Can you roll Akashic Brotherhood?" Every step of my gaming career has been this, and it's worked.

>>2811957
I'm glad you agree and are spreading the good word. I'm so sick of people who think that having ANY flaws means you have to play a crippled, useless character.

>>2811969
Sure, DnD is probably the most commonly played RPG, but this is about making a good character, not about making a good DnD character.

>>2811970
Then that really depends on your group, because my experiences have been nothing like that in any game but DnD.

>"antihero", "chain-smoking", "devious"

I don't see why these are inherently bad. I know the kind of steriotypes associated with antihero and devious lend themselves to immature players but there is no reason to exclude them entirely. An immature player won't be reading this anyway, and why the fuck is chain-smoking a bad thing? Seems like a somewhat orrigional, if shallow, charcter trait.

>>2811994
I'm not really seeing how it's any one group, given that I've had this happen with at least four so far just off the top of my head.

>>2811994
woudl it *hurt* to add:
"depending on your game, and group, your party might need a specific kind of charater. Unless you absolutely hate them, try to make something that you find fun, within the group needs"

or something, it might needs rewording.

>>2812007
Those were just "overdone" traits that people seem to think are original and cool.

>>2812009
Then it's the kind of groups you're playing with. None of mine (three) have ever worked that way outside of DnD.

We might CONSIDER party balance, but it's never that important to us.

>>2812023
I think that's reasonable.

And hey, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that this doesn't always apply, and looking at every game with that strategy might sometimes not be the right thing to do.

>>2812007
A character description is a limited work with a very short maximum (in the sense of ultimately relevant) length. If you've chosen those words to describe your character, you are most likely creating either a stupidly disruptive character, a shallow teenage angst fantasy, or possibly even a homoerotic fantasy idol to masturbate furiously to.

Quite simply, if he's an antihero, you don't need to say it. If he's devious, that's a stupid way to describe a character. If he chain smokes, that's about as relevant as his love of eating steak well done.

A good character is an original character.
Done.

If you have no creative skills, just try to powergame as much as the DM allows. Use the backstory of "As a young [race], [character] decided that life was boring and decided to live the exciting life of dungeons, monster slaying, treasure, and bitches." Or, simplified, "[character] is in it all for the bitches."

>>2811924
>a little clumsy.
Change 'little' to 'very' and your character is Detective Jacques Clouseau.

>>2812066
well, my lesbian ninja with a a (not mentioned) D-cup is certainly in it for the bitches.

>>2812066
>> A Good character is an Interesting character.
Fixed for you. Originality can still be terrible.

>>2812066

NO, NOT NECESSARILY.

EVERY STORY, CHARACTER, AND PLOT TWIST WE READ AND SEE IS THE EXACT SAME STUFF SHAKESPEAREAN-ERA PEOPLE WERE SLAPPING THEIR KNEES, BAWLING THEIR EYES OUT AND RAGING THE SHIT OVER BACK IN THE DAY.

THE HEROES ARE THE SAME, THE VILLAINS ARE THE SAME, EVERYTHING IS THE SAME.

THE ONLY REQUIREMENT OF A GOOD CHARACTER, STORIES TOO, IS THAT THEY ARE *ENTERTAINING*.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THE PRINCESS IS A SHIPMENT OF NUCLEAR ARMS AND THE DRAGON IS THE RUSSIAN TERRORISTS, BECAUSE IT'S STILL BEING TOLD IN AN ENTERTAINING AND REFRESHING WAY.

ORIGINALITY != ENTERTAINING.
ORIGINALITY != GOOD.

>>2812075
You need to add "incompetent" for that to work, though. He's incredibly incompetent but very lucky, and he accidentally stumbles onto the truth.

>>2812085
This.

>>2812087
Once more, you grant us wisdom.

I begin to suspect that there is not one MR. RAGE, but many, taking up the mantle whenever wisdom must be dispensed.

>>2812110

THE GUY BEFORE ME SAID IT IN A FAR MORE SUCCINCT MANNER.

>>2812096
High luck is right, his stupidity has saved him tenfold.

>>2812087
Okay, I make a confession here. the lesbian ninja.
Its true.
I do play that character. But our group likes stupid characters like that, and we're all enterteined by their stupid action.
So, by your stantdard, the lesbian ninja (with a D-cup) is a good character.

Huh.

>>2812118
Yes, but yours expanded on the why, which is far more important than the what in this sort of place.

>>2812141

EXACTLY.

BUT IN A GROUP OF HOIGHTY-TOIGHTY PIPE-PUFFING MONOCLE-WEARING POOFTERS, IT WOULD BE A BAD CHARACTER.

ENTERTAINMENT IS SUBJECTIVE, EVERY LAST INCH OF IT.

Addendum to this entire thread:

Don't be afraid to throw it all out the window and derp it up sometimes. You're doing this for FUN, dammit, and if nobody has a problem, you should play the blatant mary sue drizz't clone chain smoking lesbian.

New game! Let's see if people can name the DBZ characters that match with OP's picture!

>is in it all for the bitches

>>2812161
Agreed.

>>2812152

Mr rage, how come even though you speak in CAPS I always imagine some calm old geezer gently spouting wisdom when I read you posts?

>>2811775
>"explosively flatulent"
But...but...if you can't have that as a character trait, what's the point in even playing?!

Lesbians make everything better.

>>2812169

Ooo Ooo ME!

Lets see starting from the top left and going right we have...

Bulma, Krillin, (New), Master Roshi, Picolo, Vedel, Gohan, (New), Bulma, Dr. Gero, Android 16, Android 18, Trunks, (New), One of Mr. Satan's Sidekicks, Generic Clown, Bulma again, and Goku.

>>2812194
Irony makes everything better. To a certain extent.

>>2812248
You forgot a Bulma, the female thief is Milf Bulma.

>>2812261

looks more like bulma crossed with Mr. Popo...

Thank you, op.

Top left is Marle, it's a Chrono Trigger crossover

>>2811934
myownclone.jpg

>>2811761
>>2811766
>>2811767
>>2811769
>>2811771
>>2811773
>>2811775

tl;dr OP is the douchebag at the table that takes WAAAY too fucking long to make his character and always holds up the first session.

>>2812347
Actually, they're fairly easy to internalize. I know I had, other than 4, before the post was even made.

>>2811769
>5 1/2. Go back to step 1, and continue down the numbers again. If you've somehow managed to reach this point in under an hour with a character practically finished, you're character is a piece of shit everyone will hate, and you shouldn't even put it on the backburner, but throw it out.

Choke on a box of cocks. My Eladrin Spearmaster was made when I glued three concepts together with spirit gum... noting the feat Eladrin Soldier, deciding a roman legionaire style loadout would let me wreck house with Tide of Iron, and the concept of nobility from the Feywild on "extended tour" on the prime. He is an awesome character and everyone loves him. He took maybe twenty minutes to cobble together.

I'm quite proud of my skill acclimatizing new players to D&D. You don't help someone make their first character by prattling on for hours and hours about party role and psychoanalyzing the reasons why they have their desires... they want to play someone versatile and exotic, or hearty and rude, or Legolas? You goddamn make that happen, help them distinguish their character from their source inspiration, and cut them loose. And then you wind up with an enthusiastic player having fun, and not some cardboard cutout.

You go ahead and be proud of your character's objective design and deep, detailed history. I'm rocking a five line background, and that's better for the GM because he can add whatever plot hooks work for him, and I'll roll with it, because I don't need a seven page history to roleplay.

You think a good character is defined by his design process. I know a good character is defined by the way he's played.

>Nowhere in your character's description should be the [word] ..... "awesome"

ALL my characters are awesome. Except Joseph Henrich, who was a banker. He was a total square.

>>2812194
I propose that Mr. Rage change his name to BananaGuru and post this with every post possible.

>>2812358
troll'd

>>2812337
>>2812298
>>2812261
>>2812248

Dragon Quest 3.

>>2812363
You lie to yourself.

>>2812363
You are a good player.

OP is the kind of player who prefers making characters to playing the game, and thinks taking Profession ranks is the height of roleplay.

Good thread is archived.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2811761/

>>2812363
> ALL my characters are awesome. Except Joseph Henrich, who was a banker. He was a total square.

Yes, but let it be part of playing them, not something you jot down on the sheet.

>>2812399

NOW, NOW.

DO REMEMBER THAT PLAYERS, LIKE THEIR CHOSEN ENTERTAINMENT, ARE ALSO SUBJECTIVE.

YES, IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT HIS CHARACTER CREATION TECHNIQUES ARE CONTEMPLATIVE AND POSSIBLY TIME-CONSUMING, BUT RATING THESE ON A GOOD/BAD SCALE CAN ONLY LEAD TO TEARS.

YOU'RE FREE TO RATE THEM AGAINST WHAT YOU YOURSELF PREFER.

I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING HOLIER-THAN-THOU, AS I'M PLENTY GUILTY OF CALLING A PLAYER A FLAT-OUT COCKSUCKING SHITEATER, WITHOUT REALLY CONSIDERING THAT HE NEEDED TO FIND A GROUP MORE LIKE HIM THAN OUR OWN.

On the helpfulness scale, I'd rate OP's post as extremely useless.

Go back and take a hard look at yourself. How can you detach yourself from a project you've spent literally days of work on - ie. your character.

1. Try not to think too hard.
2. Make something you haven't tried yet - in a new system try a concept different from those you've played recently.
3. Pump a main stat so you aren't the useless plug of the party mechanically (which is inevitably the party scapegoat.)
4. ???
5. Profit.

He was a blast, actually, and entirely by accident. It was a Call of Cthulhu game, and I was called away to give someone a car ride halfway through the game. I left just before the demons showed up, and showed up just after they left. The rest of the session was Joseph telling people they were acting irrationally, and then calling the cops when he found out some of them were dead.

The cops made everything worse, of course, because one of the demons was summoned by looping sounds... like sirens. But it's not like I was going to listen to those people trying to stop me, they were all crazy. Then more people died.

>>2812437
Oh god we have a PC similar to this who called the cops on us in our Hunter/UA game because we were killing a murderer and he heard gunshots.

STUPID REASONABLE PEOPLE INTERFERING WITH US CRAZIES TRYING TO GET SHIT DONE

>>2812363
You probably don't really care about roleplaying games beyond their ability to allow you to roll dice to act out your desires. That's fine and all, but there's a hollow ring to that. It's probably in relation to the level of advancement you are capable of. It seems that playing games just like you did when you were twelve is fun for people of that kind of mindset, but there's always the question of whether or not there's something beyond that.

The question of whether adults playing this game are simply children in aged bodies, or people who have elevated a simple activity into something with a level of depth, a level of complexity and distinction.

You and your friends can play with whatever characters you want, because it's true that even with a shit character a good player can have fun (since even fooling yourself into thinking your having fun is still considered fun). But, for games that go beyond juvenile romps in a dungeon, a well crafted character is essential.

>>2812480
see
>>2812421

SUBSTITUTE ADJECTIVES DESCRIBING CHARACTER PROCESS: CONTEMPLATIVE -> TERSE, TIME CONSUMING -> LESS DETAILED.

AND YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.

A character concept is just as important as it's execution. However, the reasoning behind said concept is not. You don't need a deep, psychological basis for it: It's a fucking fictional character.

If you want to play an Elf, as long the setting allows for it, rock the fuck on. Want to play a Dwarf? Same applies. Want to play Batman? Hey, it's all cool, but you, as a player, have to figure out how to pull it off to my approval. I'm not doing it for you just because you wrote down "I am the night!" on your character sheet.

>>2812480
So because I don't choke a character's past down with exposition, he somehow can't have intersting motivations or behavior?

Best adventure that Eladrin dude was involved in was a garden party. The who's who of the local area were invited, a fair number of them turned up, and we had to impress them with our poise and culture so we'd get in with the in crowd. Turns out that while our adventuring party can't handle running away from mafiosso, rescuing slaves, or infiltrating military camps, they've got event coordination sewn up.

>>2812480

A good charcter develops over time. I see no point in establishing everything about my charcter before I even start playing. That just detracts from working with the game, instead of against it. Enjoy your overplanned charcters with forced charcterizations.

>>2812488
Sorry, teacher, I forgot the world is made of candy canes and rainbows and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Putting time and effort into something makes it better? Holy penis, what a scoop!

>>2812519

EVERYONE *IS* ENTITLED TO AN OPINION, THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.

YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO HATE SHALLOW CHARACTERS AS MUCH AS YOU WANT. HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T MATCH YOUR PREFERENCES. HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE JUVENILE. HATE THEM WITH EVERY HAIR ON YOUR BODY, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE ROOTS.

BUT THEY'RE NOT OBJECTIVELY BAD CHARACTERS. JUST CHARACTERS YOU HATE, CHARACTERS THAT DON'T ENTERTAIN YOU.

>>2812519
Only I may have opinions.

>>2812476

SHUT UP FAGBOAT

>>2812519
It's not a matter of opinions, it's a matter of what they find enjoyable. There's a bit of a difference there. "Fun" is a far more subjective thing than something like literature, where you can draw a line between "good" and "bad."

Just because one group enjoys deep political drama and intrigue and another group enjoys running through dungeons killing everything that moves for delicious XP and cashmonies doesn't mean one group is having less fun than the other.

How to Make a Good Character: NANOMACHINES.

>>2812476

get out

Wow, who would have guessed that this thread would devolve into bitching about extremes instead of actual suggestions and discussion?

>>2812539
Hi honey.

>>2812540

THIS.

I RESCIND MY HAM-HANDED ATTEMPT TO GET AT THIS POINT.

>>2812546

JSESUS FUCKING CHRIST THIS SHIT HAPPENS BECAUSE OF YOU

NOW GET OUT
YOU RUIN EVERY THREAD YOU POST IN WITH YOUR UNFUNNY ANECDOTES, YOU FUCKSHIT

>>2812540
If we are to define the ultimate objective as the group having fun, then we are in complete agreement.

However, if we are to add any other goal beyond simply having a good time, than there can be elements that can be considered beyond a small group's subjective attitude.

>>2812566

What other goals would you suggest exist? I mean, beyond completing a story or something like that, which doesn't override the primary goal.

>>2812529

I'd argue the opposite. Given that you'll be playing with a number of other people, overpreperation leads to stagnation. You have a enormous set of motivations and crap, and the odds of any of it meshing elegantly with the party is pretty low. Leave it open, get the basic personality down and worry about they whys later. That way, when the party starts the story arc with lots of lizardmen, you can have a discrete word with the DM about maybe having a tragic lizardman riddled backstory, complete with that one lizardman who stole your dolly and escaped into the night that you've been upset with ever since, or what have you. But if you've already decided that your character's strong ties to the Greyhawk reform political movement has left him with a bitter emnity towards goblins who want small business loans, that crap isn't going to turn up unless you happen to run into a goblin who is starting up a bakery.

And now you've got a character with a deep, convoluted backstory that never really comes up--or your motivations are broad and generalized, a hatred of "evil races" or some such crap. But my dude is enemies with Lord Scalesabunch, a political rival to the local burgher, and the second cousin of the party half-orc (my uncle liked 'em green and muscle-y) who I'm constantly hitting up for money because I totally left my purse at home. Your backstory is left hanging there, except when you try to force it into the limelight... and that never goes over well! We must be angry whenever you try to roleplay. If only we cared as much as you do.

>>2812480
Yeah, FUCK YOU. Figuring out every moment of your character's life and psychoanalyzing them from every direction is pointless bullshit. It doesn't make your roleplaying any more deep or meaningful. A character whose personality consists of "friendly, country-born, relaxed, stands up for the weak, fond of small animals" winds up, in practice, being just as interesting as your guy with the five-page backstory--or moreso.

>>2812577

This isn't the opposite of putting in time or energy; rather, failing to do so is what causes these long convulted backstories with no consideration of other characters or an overall setting. Coming up with different ideas about ones backstory as well as coordinating with the PCs and GMs counts as time and effort in my book, and is one of the most important parts of character creation in my opinion.

The only time you want to put that much into it is when you're developing your characters together. Having characters that have in-jokes, can reference past adventures, hold minor, petty grudges over past matters, etc is worth it.

fags you're all fags

Shittiest guide ever. A good character is a character you enjoy playing and others enjoy playing with. That's all there is to it.

>>2812599
I, personally, tend to put a lot of time and effort into my characters, but this is largely because I enjoy the process of character design rather than having some sort of deep, artsy goal I feel the need to accomplish.

>>2812614
I applaud you for not thinking that that magically makes you a better roleplayer. Do not, I repeat, do not choke on a bag of dicks.

>>2812599
I feel you can do that during play. No reason two dudes can't decide to be cousins in the second session, as long as they weren't making out in the first.

Or even if they were, but that might just end your campaign. Know your fellow players!

>>2812571
Once again, we find ourselves in subjective territory. But, as long as we keep in mind every group, in fact every player, has their own goals and wishes as to what they want out of a game, than a varied list can be compiled.

Personally, I think that role playing games should be played to the best of the players abilities (actually, all things should be done to the best of ... I'll just continue), and that the game can be used to develop various skills within the players. Ranging from improving simple mathematical computation speed to learning how to shift personas rapidly and distinctly, the game can be used for great personal progress. It is, of my opinion, that any thing that does not provide at least some merit outside of enjoyment is a waste of time. And, playing a game at level far beyond your capabilities not only lacks merit, it might even be detrimental.

If anything, being able to create a "good" character for roleplaying games opens up quite a large world of understanding. There are characters in almost every film we see, every book we read, every video game we play. Understanding the character creation process, even in something as dissimilar as a roleplaying game, helps enrich the enjoyment, understanding, and possibly development that comes from partaking in activities encountering characters made by other people. It's similar to how knowing how to cook helps you become a gourmet.

>>2812585
Agreed. Most of my best characters have come from having a few key features in mind ahead of time and winging pretty much the entire rest of their personality and backstory based on whatever seems like the most fun at the time. Now if only I could convince the people I play with of this instead of 'NO I WILL NOT LOOK AT YOUR CHARACTER UNTIL YOU HAVE 3 PAGES DETAILING WHAT THEY DID IN HIGHSCHOOL.'

>>2812624
Yes, please, remain dick free, for a better, cleaner life.

>>2812641
This has been a public service announcement?

>>2812585
No one ever said anything about length. One person can take five minutes and another sixty hours, and still churn out only a paragraph. However, the one who spent the sixty hours would have a well thought out character that he's determined is very near to exactly what he wants to play, while the one who took five minutes will most likely end up wanting to completely change his character five minutes in.

Are some people trying to argue that putting effort into making your characters is a bad idea?

When I make a character, I usually just rip off the visual concept from somewhere else and then take it in my own direction when I fill it out. Makes it a lot easier.

As an example, the character most people have liked when I played as him was just visually a copy of Shen Woo from the King of Fighter series, with a completely different personality. I managed to turn the pink/purple shirt and tight jeans into a running gag as well.

If I may.

Even if you buy into the whole "no new ideas" theory, that isn't an excuse to plagiarize. Let's say that you like Batman (since he's been mentioned in this thread already). If you're playing a "straight" game, chances are that he won't fit in. You don't have to over analyze things, but you should definitely look at what it is about Batman that makes you want to play him.

Is it the detective angle? The obsession and near psychosis that plagues him? His lack of overt powers? Or maybe his stealth and forethought? Once you know what draws you to the character, you can build someone from the ground up that isn't a blatant rip off. And I guarantee, a character that you worked on yourself will be more fun than something you read in a book or saw in a movie.

>>2812686
I think it's more arguing that putting more effort into your characters doesn't necessarily mean they'll be better.

>>2812693
This is a very important aspect of character creation, and can even be consider a fulcrum in some styles.

You look at a character you like, and figure out what you like about them. You then look at another character you like, and repeat. Eventually, you have a list of traits you like, which you then can order hierarchically, followed by removing the bottom, until you have a short list of traits that you can successfully apply to a character.

Of course, this also tend to lead to Mary Sue characters when the list doesn't get cut short enough or the traits are illogical or downright silly, but it's at least a process.

>No one ever said anything about length.

From the OP

>If you've somehow managed to reach this point in under an hour with a character practically finished, you're character is a piece of shit everyone will hate, and you shouldn't even put it on the backburner, but throw it out.

Do try to keep up with the rest of us.

>chain-smoking

Fuck you, my paladin knows the rules of divine health and when to abuse them.

>>2812731
>time = length
wut.

>>2812686

NO, MERELY ABOUT HOW EFFORT INTO ONE'S CHARACTER IS OR ISN'T A GIVEN PERSON'S/GROUP'S PREFERENCE, AND HOW BOTH OPINIONS SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE RESPECTED BY THE OPPOSING GROUP.

ULTIMATELY, IT'S AN ARGUMENT OF WHETHER EVERYONE'S FUN IS GOOD, OR IF SOME PEOPLE'S FUN IS GOOD AND OTHER PEOPLE'S FUN IS STUPID AND WRONG.

>>2812756
Has it been a long time since you've heard people talk like that?

>>2812756
time= length= Legend of Zelda: Length of Time

>>2812693
I'm the guy who mentioned Batman earlier, and I support this message.

>>2812728
This is a good way of character creation for somebody new to it, I suppose. Though I'd say you'd probably be better of going straight to the source of recurring themes or tropes and using those for fuel instead of specific characters.

>>2812774
There is no direct correlation between time spent and the length (in regards to paper length) of what you write. There is -a- correlation, but not a direct one.

>>2812807
But there is a direct correlation between the time length and the length of time you spent. In fact, it's a one to one ratio. It's unclear which causes the other, or if they're both caused by a third, yet undefined factor.

>>2811761

All of this seriousness, all of this effort. All of this fucking stress... Over what is meant to be a GAME. Now I understand you shouldn't be some careless jackass who makes a character completely out of tune with the party. A rogue who's stabbing everyone in the back, but because he's managed to fool the party so far they still like him in character. As well as avoiding making a character based around mechanics or mechanics based around the character's history/backstory.

I understand all this.

But the sheer fact you're saying that a person should spent hours upon hours psychoanalyzing themselves to make a good character is a bit over the top and ridiculous. You also talk shit about a person using a character to act out fantasies and desires...

Why the fuck even play a roleplaying game if you didn't want to pretend? Why not play your fucking self and roll some dice for going to work if you're not allowed to enjoy the fantasy of using magic, killing monsters, saving people, or raping entire continents of their resources?

A lot of your advice is great, but the sheer passion and outright disturbing level of obsession you put into this (you admitted it was an obsession yourself so I'm not faulting you on that), is worrisome.

Putting party first, and story first is the best way to make a character, but you should come up with something you like so that you enjoy the act of playing the game. Even if it's cliche, totally original, or a rip-off just go with it.

>>2812859

I myself played a game of cyberpunk (2nd ed.) and after rolling stats my friends commented I had a character who probably looked like brock samson. On a whim, I decided to roll with basically playing brock samson in cyberpunk. Every single person at the table was laughing their ass off and loving the shit I was pulling off with the character, because it helped them get the job done, wasn't totally broken, and was entertaining.

Mr. Rage has it right. Entertainment is all that truly matters, and if everyone is being entertained it doesn't matter how the fuck you went about it, just so long as everyone enjoyed the time together.

>>2812827
True, and even under Einsteinian physics, physical distances and lengths can also be expressed in components of time. But that's neither here nor now.

>>2812861

Oh and I forgot to mention that I never did actually use a gun. Hell, I barely used my knife. Mostly my bare fists. I managed to cave in the chest of a guy in riot gear thanks to some bioware muscle enhancement, strength feat, and martial arts.

>>2812807

I thought this was a concept people could easily understand anyway. You have to write a paper for class or something and you spend a good amount of your "writing time" thinking about what you're writing. In the end you spent only 30 minutes of two hours actually typing, but two hours were spent "writing".

>>2812859
Simply put, I would like to think that most people would not need some stupid guide to help them make a character. But, there are a lot of people who do. These tend to be the people who half-ass everything. They aim for C's, not A's, 5's, not 10's, and so on and so on.

If you tell them they have to spend 10 hours on a character, they will spend 10 minutes. But that's usually 9 minutes more thought process than they ordinarily would have used.

Please pardon the exaggeration.

>>2812917
So I'm getting a C at D&D? Mom's gonna be so angry with me.

>>2812917

Ah okay, if it was meant as a guideline to help people who put barely any effort in actually make something decent... Then that's fine, but the fact it was portrayed as the end all be all law of the land pissed me off.

Especially annoying for players who happen to have a DM that either is lucky when rolling, or purposefully kills characters after only a few sessions out of some stupid idea that it's a competition. Almost every game system I've read says it's is a terrible idea to treat it as such.

>>2812969
>the fact it was portrayed as the end all be all law of the land pissed me off.

>To begin, this isn't a perfect guide.
Look, I know this is 4chan and hating stuff is AWESOME!, but it would help to read things before you get angry about them.
Not OP.

>>2812977

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact he was speaking with authority. I didn't get upset at the situation. I got upset with his portrayed opinion. I don't hate the guy, but I do disagree with him.

>>2812075 Change 'little' to 'very' and your character is Detective Jacques Clouseau.

In the hands of a good player and GM, this could be a a part of a very good campaign.

>>2813007
...if you spend a lot of time being upset at opinions on the internet, you must not get out much.

>>2812363
Yeah.. time to complete a character means shit.

Sometimes it takes a while to flesh out a good character, and it can turn out wonderfully. Other times inspiration slaps you in the face like my pimp I haven't given my take to, and you just crap out gold in a few minutes.

Also, I find there is too much that depends on the person in question, the group, and the system being played to really set up guidelines to make a good character. It's all very situational, and different demands have to be met all the time.

>>2813076
Hey, genius, wouldn't more time mean more chances for those flashes of inspiration? Or did that thought not occur to you yet?

>>2813088
"Flash of inspiration" implies it came immediately and without warning. I could think of a way to word this into an insult, but the way you replied to whoever was just so stupid I don't have to.

>>2812518
I work the same way.

I can't make a full character beforehand. In my experience? It just never works. Plans can be foiled easily when you aren't in complete control of your character, and in a RPG you DO NOT HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF YOUR CHARACTER. Hold no delusions. Shit will happen, and you can't decide exactly what all on your own. Other characters will adopt their own stances on your character.

The only advice I can ever offer is DO NOT make some grand plan for the whole RPG. It isn't like you're going to spill every last detail of your character within seconds of meeting everyone anyway. Have a workable foundation and framework to begin interaction. If you plan out every last thing.. you'll more than likely hit a lot of trouble when plans fall through.

And it makes you more willing to accept things as they happen. Let the character GROW.

Just keep it reasonable.. within your already built framework for the character.

I make all DnD characters in 5 minutes.

I make all WoD characters in 10.

I make my Exalted Characters in 15 (CURSE YOU AWESOME CHARM SELECTION)

I make my Sailor Moon RPG/MaidRPG/Trigger Discipline/Any other weeaboo game characters in thirty seconds.

You know, one thing I find usually helps with roleplaying my characters is making up a few events that happened earlier in their life. That way, if a similar situation pops up, I can use my backstory as an example. That's what this guy is saying, without all the throw out a character concept after an hour shit. Although, if you can't see your character ever associating with anyone in the party, then you might want to reroll (Drow example).

Also, playing yourself in an RPG where everyone is playing themselves is fine, but in most other situations you're going to get pissed because they let "you" die or some shit. Plus, no one wants to hear about how you have 20 INT, fa/tg/uy.

OP is a dick.

l2be fun DM.

One suggestion is that your play style, and character creation style, fit in with the rest of your group. For example, if they're all playing people who are rip-offs of Blake's 7, then there's really no point at all in coming up with some sort of new alien race that's original and unique. Conversely, if they're all making things that are new and inventive (at least to them) then ripping off Neo ain't gonna fly so well.

Make sure that everybody's on the same page. If your definition of "pulp adventure" is different than that of everybody else, then you're going to have problems. All three times I've tried to play Adventure! I've encountered this problem. Nobody could agree on the feel for the game. In the end, in each time, it devolved to playing "out-stupid each other." (Jump from one zep into a bi-plane, knock out the pilot, then aim the plane at another zep and jump onto the top of your zep... while the pilot decided to do a barrel roll. THAT'S entertainment.)

I find this interesting.

So first you say hwo you should pay a huge amount of attention to everything about your character, which should include said characters looks, and then you shouldn't describe him to the same detail?

What is the point of thinking so hard about the character then?

ITT DERP DERP EITHER YOU PUT WAY TOO MUCH DETAIL INTO A CHARACTER OR ALMOST NONE THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN. "GOOD" DOESN'T ACTUALLY MEAN GOOD, IT MEANS FUN! DEEEEEERP

Sometimes I wonder why I bother talking to you guys because you do this in EVERY fucking discussion.

And then I remember that it makes you incredibly easy to troll.

>>2815046
Say, do you do anything these days besides wonder into threads, declare your disdain for everyone then leave? Just curious.

>>2815046
Oh, good.

YOU.

>>2815081
Scroll up, genius.

>>2815087
My apologies. My own hobby is popping into threads, taking a pot-shot at some tripfag and then lurking off again.

OPs rules aren't bad, but they sound a little too obssessive to actually produce good characters.

The breath of life of a good character is that its player enjoys playing it. And christ, some of the best characters I've seen in my life were whipped up durring 1 hour of pre-session char-gen.

I agree that the stats can't be set in stone before you even think about story (or vice-versa), but there's a lot of wiggle room as far as which should take precidence.

>>2812186
Dwarves ARE AWESOME.

>>2812399
Actually I kinda like profession ranks.

"Oh me? I'm their accountant. Someone has to tally the loot, after all."

...later...

*busts out a shadow Summon Ownage VI*

Sticky?

>>2812363
>Choke on a box of cocks. My Eladrin Spearmaster...
>Eladrin Spearmaster...
>Eladrin...

I agree with everything about this post, except for that.

4e isn't going away, is it? Cock fucking damnit. . .

good discussions like this should be archives for future reference

<---SAGE

>>2815352

You are a newfag. We do this all the time.

These rules aren't even that good, actually. I'd be shocked if anyone reposted them.