We're already playing it.

Everyone starves
worst form of governement ever

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita

This is your campaign.

>>4720614

>Most everyone starves except the leaders who pervert the ideals of communism

Epic win.

In soviet russia class choses you

Are you a bad enough dude to enforce division of labor and bring your people out of the stone age?

Coming this summer: Civilization: THE GAME.

>>4720622
In soviet Russian Dice rolls you.

Experience points are shared between all players

Communist Paladin, your Smite Capitalism has saved this humble farm! How can we ever repay you?

>>4720621

Seconded!

>>4720614
>>Everyone starves
>>worst form of governement ever

>>worst form of governement ever

>>form of governement

wut

In Soviet Russia, game plays YOU.

(sorry, oblig.)

There is no DM. All players are the DM. Simultaneously. They are given points with which to DM the game and influence it.

>>4720646
I think at this point we're talking about socialism

That said, I would call communism a form of government, no matter what it's pundits say. Whats that, people live in groups, and are beholden to the decisions of others? Sounds like a state to me.

>>4720614
>thinks a socialist dictatorship is communism

>>4720652
>>4720626
>>4720622

HiveComissar

>>4720652

>>4720654
A KGB agent is present in all games to ensure the DMs are upholding political correctness in all decisions or game settings.

>>4720662
>Thinks communism is not "everyone starves bad end"

The taint of Capitalism has warped you into a hungry monster, ready to exploit your fellow Comrades!

You must be destroyed for the good of the Union!

>>4720660
Ummm... no. Communism is an economic system. It can be in place under any sort of government.

>>4720674
>Gгееп техтs

>>4720672
To DM you must join the Kremlin and be awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union medal.

The computer is my friend I am happy.

>>4720691
STOP DOING THAT.

I'm majoring in russian. That hurts me. The letters may look CLOSE to the english letters, but they make COMPLETELY different sounds.

Commarines, Advance!

>>4720674

Anytime your campaing takes place in small, separated comunity with very limited resources, (think about small colony on really hostile planet, where everybody rellies on machinery to survive), chances are you're lpaying in commie setting. Just because everybody has to work like mad and share with everybody else, because otherwise, everybody would die.

>>4720682
That's a load of crap. Economic system=government.

>>4720682
>Communism is an economic system.
ಠ_ಠ

COmmunism doesn't work as it is fundamentaly against human nature to care about crap you don't even own

>>4720674
Well, it isn't. Communism has only existed in short periods of time. When it was achieved, everyone was happy and no one was starving. See: Free Territory, Ukraine and the Catalonia region during the Spanish Civil War. People starve in China because they are communists. The state just keeps all the money.

>>4720682
No, if you have read anything written by any communist you'd realize it calls for the destruction of socioeconomic classes and the state. It can not be put in any form of government. Socialism can be put in any form of government.

>>4720724
No, that's just you. And a huge bunch of other stupid faggots, granted. But just because you're an uncaring bigoted faggot doesn't mean everyone is.

>>4720639

Why, a meager offering of food and a place to sleep for the night should be enough for my servi-

*PALADIN FALLS*

>>4720731
People starve in China not because of Communism but because of poor agricultural planning and serious droughts.

ON TOPIC, Comrades! you mustn't let the vile words of the capitalist pig to get to your pure hearts! Let the crimson flag flatter eternally!

>>4720719
Communism isn't an economic system and an economic system is not a form of government. Capitalism is an economic structure and can be put in any form of government. Capitalism != a government.

>>4720724
You don't read Marx, yes ? =)

>>4720736
Tragedy of the commons, bitch. History is on the side of the capitalists. Remember that whole deal with the inevitable progression of history towards communism? Remember how it didn't happen?

>>4720731
This is the fucking problem, everyone thinks china is communism, it's not. Neither was the soviet union, nor is cuba.

There has to date not existed a true communistic state.

>>4720708
Тнат's уоиг рипisнмепт fог lеагпiпд ап iпfегiог lапдиаде.

>>4720682

No, it's not an economic system, it's a government in which economic system it's minimal or doesn't exist, in that case everything is (theorically) owned by everybody.

>>4720719
>>4720720
Consider: Capitalism can work under a dictatorship just as well as it can under a democracy. As long as the government keeps its hands off of the market, it's still capitalism.

Communism is much the same. As long as the government works WITH the market, it (and this is the important part) doesn't actually matter what the system of government is.

Only issue is that dictatorships tend to lead to corruption. Just in general.

>>4720754
Well, they had a communist ideology. In practice, they were socialists.

And they were never going to get out of that, because socialism will NEVER lead to communism.

>>4720749
That's like saying bolters should be the best guns ever IRL because GW wrote so

>>4720742
Er, I made a mistake. I meant to say people don't starve in China because they are communists. They aren't even communists in the first place.

>>4720739
>*PALADIN FALLS*

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>4720682

You need to go revise your Marx. Governments exist under economic systems. And they're related yet not identical.

Capitalism was here

Communism is a faggot

>>4720752
Actually, Marx said that for Communism to occur, Capitalism much reach its full potential.

All of those revolutionaries were not following Marxism, as the revolution is supposed to come from the workers, and not the leaders.

The failure of the revolution supports communism.

>>4720752
So you're saying that because something is dominant means it's good and rightful?

Damn the nazis was the best thing to hit germany in the 1930's

>>4720724
But in a communist state, you do, in effect, own everything.

>>4720763
>As long as the government works WITH the market, it (and this is the important part) doesn't actually matter what the system of government is.
Except that isn't communism. That is socialism. When the economy is controlled collectively, that is not communism. Communism is political and economic. Socialism is economic. Communism there is no government.

>>4720708
Ggeep tekhts?

>>4720782
Socialism was here.

Capitalism is also a faggot.

>>4720755
>>Тнат's уоиг рипisнмепт fог lеагпiпд ап iпfегiог lапдиаде

Tnat's uoig ripisnmept fog leagpipd ap ipfegiog lapdiade

That's what you just wrote.

>>4720784
Because something didn't happen, it must be true?

Your blackwhite is showing.

>>4720724

Untrue. Better to care about everybodys crap, because chances are, that in such system somebody else would care about your crap. It's less personal risk, but also less possible personal gain.

>>4720790
Communism is not anarchy.

>>4720787
A communist state is an oxymoron. I wish people would stop saying this. A communist state to everyone is pretty much a socialist dictatorship where the leaders call themselves communists. A real communist state would in fact have no state.

>>4720797
Ай ноу.

>>4720798
I'm just saying that Marx said much the same, so far.

>>4720810
If there was no state, then why is everyone sharing property? Sounds like someone is keeping them from going off on their own.

Sounds like a government is.

>>4720822
This is OP

Fuck off, moron

>>4720797

Slavic languages are extremely hard for native english speakers to learn. Show some respect to that guy!

>>4720752
The tragedy of the commons is that the Diggers didn't shoot the British Bourgeoisie. Do you actually understand how the commons came to be in private hands, and how much the calorific intake (ie living standards) of the vast majority of Britons plummeted after privatisation because the commons were an efficient source of calories?

>>4720813
Close. CLOSE.

Not QUITE, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXNXKtu8z4
Sing, Comrades! Sing!

>>4720826
Sup, OP.

Can you just delete this thread? It's a trollercoaster.

>>4720809
Yes it is. Anarchists and communists fight for the same goal. If you knew anything about the history of anarchists or communists you'd know they've fought together in several occasions. Read anything about Marx, he rants against the state and how it causes the class struggle. There is no state in communism.

>>4720826
OP must not have been on 4chan for more than five seconds today.

>>4720839
Like hell. I'm an anarchist and communists can go fuck themselves with a cactus.

How about benevolent autocracy?

>>4720809
To go further on this topic, yes, communism is not anarchy. It is not a society without a state. Instead it's a society without a single centralized state. The idea is that instead of huge countries and towering metropolises you have smaller communities that essentially govern themselves, and these communities are spaced much more tightly than our cities are today. The idea is that these communities would work together with each other the same way the people in each single community works together. So if someone or some community needs something, they get it.

This is truly the utopia for me, if it was applied truly globally. Sure, I would have to give up much of what my life is and much of the luxury I live in. On the other hand, I would know that everyone on the whole earth has it pretty much just as good as I do, and no one would have to go hungry and starve just because I live in a world where everyone are gigantic stupid faggots who can only care for themselves.

>>4720831
Historical revisionism, eh? And there was no Holocaust, right?

>>4720838
irnewfag, how do I shoot web?

>>4720838
Iт sиге is.

No DM at all.

>>4720859
I will riddle you with bullets if you try to take my property.

>>4720857
That works until the next guy who gets into power is motherfucking Caligula.

Charlie Anderson: Can you give me one good reason why I should let my sons march down that road like a bunch of damn fools?
Lt. Johnson: Virginia needs all her sons, Mr. Anderson.
Charlie Anderson: They don’t belong to the state they belong to ME! When they were babies I never saw the state comin’ around here with a spare tit!

…Lt. Johnson: When are you going to take this war seriously, Anderson?
Charlie Anderson: Now let me tell you something, Johnson, before you get on my wrong side. My corn I take seriously, because it’s mine. And my potatoes and tomatoes and my fence I take note of because they’re mine. But this war is not mine and I don’t take note of it.

>>4720870
Hello retard.

You are, truly, the cancer that is killing the world.

Enjoy your fucking property like it means something.

>>4720859
Your definition of state is liberal, monopoly of force. Marxist definitions of the state is the dictatorship of one class over all others. No classes => no dictatorship => no state. Communism is stateless in this sense. The other key phrase is "Replacing the government of people with the government of things." meaning and end to orders dictating people's lives, and instead people ordering the things in the world for their benefit.

>>4720878
Elective autocracy?

>>4720857
Also, as a /m/an, I give you points for posting some LoGH.

In Soviet Russia, character plays you.

This means you simply go about your daily life as if you're an adventurer.

>>4720891
If your worldview ever comes to fruition, the human race is well and truly fucked. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent such a soul-crushing state of existence.

>>4720892
Yeah. Anarchist believe in non-governance. Communists do still believe in governance, but not as it is now but instead, like I said, small self-governing communities.

>>4720889
Two months later Mr. Anderson was shot in the head by an invading soldier.

>>4720863
It sige is?

>>4720892
I refuse to use your non-standard definition of state.

>>4720904
I would like to hear why the human race is fucked. Because there is no reason.

The only difference is that everyone who is suffering now due to poverty and famine would do so no longer. And there would be no stupid rich fucks clinging to their fucking money like it has some inherent value.

>>4720784

Stalin was pretty much a prole, look how well HIS leadership turned out.

>>4720850
Yea, but you aren't a real anarchist. You are just a young, angsty child who sprays graffiti, doesn't like the cops, and skateboards.


To everyone who thinks communism has a government:
“the communist revolution, which removes the division of labour, ultimately abolishes political institutions”
-Karl Marx, The German Ideology

>>4720889
Charlie Anderson: Johnson! Johnson! God, save me from these Japs! They burnt the fields and murdered my family!
Lt. Johnson: Hubris is the greatest of sins, Farmer.

>>4720912
Ду ю тролл ми, сучечка?

>>4720878
Caligula was initially beneficient and orderly.

>>4720919
The human race would be fucked as a result of starvation, riots, and the eventual collapse of the entire system.

>>4720927
THERE WE ARE.

Excellently done.

space commies

In Soviet Russia, dice roll YOU!

Sorry, had to. What kinda communism are we considering komrade?

>>4720904

What is so soul crushing about colective ownership?

Ok, I think we can all agree that communism calls for an extremely decentralized government, if not none. China and Russia were not communists. The end.

>>4720922
He was one man. Most of the Russian workers (80%) did not want the revolution.

>>4720924
No, I'm not any of those things. I'm an anarcho-capitalist, so I'm diametrically opposed to communism.

Another space commie

>>4720909
I think you haven't read much modern anarchy. Most anarchists believe that the next step worth discussing and building for is autonomous workers councils with a monopoly on force, a remarkably identical situation to the expected precursors to these communes you're discussing.

>>4720932
Why?

>>4720932
I'd like to know how you know this. Seeing as communism has never been achieved.

>>4720950
Inefficient distribution of goods and services.

>>4720917
I know the liberal definition of the state is controversial, but many people still hold by Locke despite its lack of autocritique. Marx's definition, while broadly superior, replaces the absence of a critique with a teleology.

I for one prefer teleology to lack of self-criticism.

>>4720956
Why should they be inefficient?

>>4720878
You are just racist against horses. All throughout human history horses have been treated like slaves by humans. They never received any pay are expected to work to death and god forbid that they break a leg because then it's execution time.

Then Caligula comes along and goes NO, WE ARE NOT PROGRESSIVE ENOUGH. WE MUST ADOPT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND MAKE THIS HORSE A CONSUL TO END THIS ENDEMIC DISCRIMINATION and you're all up in his chops about it.

Why don't you want horses to succeed? What have horses ever done to you, horse racist?

Space commies enjoying their commonly owned property

Stop discussing economic models in such a retarded way. You are making me stupider.

>>4720968
In a way, penises are an economic model.

>>4720932
Who will you riot against, kiddie?

>>4720934
Угу. Просто охуительно.

>>4720932
>starvation
everything but. Or are you saying there are not enough resources on this planet to supply all the humans on it? Because there is. Especially if everyone stopped wasting godless amounts of money on useless shit that doesn't mean a fucking shit.
>riots
Because everyone would be well-fed, have a roof under their heads and a direction if life if they so chose? You're fucking stupid, the ratio of people who would suffer because of this change to those would get a better life is like 1:100. There would be no meaningful riots.
>eventual collapse of the entire system.
Yeah well you should tell yourself that so you can continue to be live your pathetic life with no feelings of guilt.

>>4720943
Yes, because capitalism would definitely survive in anarchy.

>>4720927
Yes, yes I do.

>>4720972
>I have no argument, so I will assume that my opponent is younger than I am.

Space commies enjoying the collective ownership of eachother's bodies.

>>4720977
"Capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism, and anarchism is the fullest expression of capitalism."

>>4720941
uhhh... the bit where a 20-30% group of the population, the urban proletariat, in alliance with the rural proletariat and rural peasantry manages to win a civil war indicates that most Russian workers wanted a revolution.

The horror is that working class ultralefts *demanded* the Promparty trial and the forced extractions at the end of the NEP period. Of course, they'd had their balls cut off in 1918 with one-man-management then in 21 with the crushing of Krondstat and the NEP.

>>4720981
And still my question remains unanswered, old shit.

Communism has never worked
I can not be proven wrong

>>4720997
Riots will occur against the governing bodies, of course, you dumbshit. Don't give me that "no state" crap, because there would be a state.

>>4720991
The free market invariably forms a hierarchy, you double capitalist.

>>4720991
That's an amusing proposition. As a militant worker I eagerly await the removal of state protection of property.

>>4720992
They won through force of arms. Most of the civilians did not want Communism.

On the day of voting, only 20% voted for Communism.

>>4721011
>>4721012

>double capitalist

Thank you for the compliment, good sir!

Okay, so you don't support it. I do. Guess which one of us is going to have more support? Hint: The one that lets people actually own things and have fulfilling lives.

>>4721019
You think that Parliamentary voting represents *anything*?

_wow_

>>4721023
You think that working within capitalism allows people to have fulfilling lives?

>>4721008
So you're going to riot against youself. That's just as wise idea as starting a holocaust while being jew youself.

"I define anarchist society as one where there is no legal possibility for coercive aggression against the person or property of any individual. Anarchists oppose the State because it has its very being in such aggression, namely, the expropriation of private property through taxation, the coercive exclusion of other providers of defense service from its territory, and all of the other depredations and coercions that are built upon these twin foci of invasions of individual rights." -Murray Rothbard in Society and State

Fuck you. Communism is evil and has the blood of millions on it.

>>4721008
No, there would not be a state in the normal sense. There would be no single body of government.

There would be only small communes who are expected to work with each other. Why would they do that? Simply because each commune cannot supply themselves with everything they need and want. So they work together. And they do no capitalistically trade goods with each other, they freely share them throughout the system at a need-basis.

Some communists argue that you would still need an institution of police that stands above each commune and keeps the peace in them all, and that is essentially centralized. I, however, and many with me, do not agree. Each commune can govern and police themselves out of their needs.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? MY TREASON SENSORS ARE GOING OFF THE SCALE. EXPLAIN YOURSELVES CITIZENS, BEFORE I RELEASE THE ANTI-COMMUNISM GAS.

>>4721037
Fuck you. Capitalism is evil and has the blood of millions on it.

>>4721037
Hey you're a fucking retard. There has to date not existed a true communistic state, so it truly has the blood of nil on it. Capitalism on the other hand...

>>4720991
Oh no! Not a quote!

Capitalism is feudalism put into an economic system. If you have no government to protect your feudal lords, it will fall apart when the workers get pissed. The only reason it hasn't collapsed in the U.S. is because of heavy regulation and limiting workers' rights.

>>4721039
>Simply because each commune cannot supply themselves with everything they need and want. So they work together.

...because they were forced to not be self-sufficient. Great.

СТОЛИЦА, ВОДКА, СОВЕТСКИЙ МЕДВЕДЬ НАШ!

>>4721037
Fuck you. Capitalism is evil and bathed in the blood of billions over the history of mankind.

>>4720975
>Especially if everyone stopped wasting godless amounts of money on useless shit that doesn't mean a fucking shit.

Like GW minis. Which is why /tg/ will never be commie.

They did it already.

>>4721055
How about those who only play homebrewed rpgs?

>>4721047

Soviet Union. In before 'Wah revisionist history it wasn't a real communist state right guys!' Face it, your system is impossible and breeds atrocities. How many died in the Ukraine in the 20s and 30s? How many were sacrificed for industry and starved in famines? What about the mass forced migrations or the anti Jew pogroms? What about delivering crushing poverty in exchange for the death of freedom?

You sir are the worst kind of apologist and I sincerely hope you burn in Hell.

>>4721045
>Fuck you. Capitalism is evil and has the blood of billions on it.

fixed

>>4721052
Fuck year! The best Pooh ever!

>>4721064
WHAT'S THAT? INDIVIDUAL GAMES? WE CAN'T HAVE THAT, ALL GAMES MUST BE CREATED BY THE COMMUNE!

>>4721023
>Guess which one of us is going to have more support?
The one where an extreme minority becomes super rich and ruins the lives of everyone else. The one where there is a recession or depression every decade. The one that opposes democracy.

>>4721075
>recession or depression

The business cycle is caused by monetary interventionism, an anti-capitalist idea. Read a book for once.

>>4721048
>The only reason it hasn't collapsed in the U.S. is because of heavy regulation and limiting workers' rights.

Because there never was enought organised workers to overthrow capitalism. Even if they were there it would result in something similar to Russian revolution with few strong leaders, which will become dictators.

Simply put, while capitalism sucks, it's still better than the imposible.

I think we should rename socialism to economic democracy. The word communism and socialism are scary to americans. When they hear free market, they go "fuck year!". When they hear capitalism, they get scared.

>>4721060

CITIZEN! YOU APPEAR TO HAVE POSTED A PICTURE OF PARANOIA, THE RPG OF PLAYING IN MY WONDERFUL UTOPIA. THIS IS A MISTAKE, SINCE COMMUNISM DOES NOT EXIST IN ALPHA COMPLEX.

itt: a bunch of college communists bitch and moan.

Grow up you fags.

>>4721070
Between 2-6 millions died in the Ukraine from Government forced starvation that was supported by rank and file ultraleftist urban workers. Fewer than died in the ovens of the Nazi-Junker-Syndicalist state. Fewer than died in Chinese and Indian famines caused by the UK in the nineteen century. How many were sacrificed for Capitalist industry and starved in forced famines? What about the mass forced migrations? What about delivering crushing poverty to 80% of the world's population?

>>4721095

>Hey guys, let's ignore the evil we've done and try to justify it throwing mud elseware! Hurr hurr!

Try harder. You can't wave a magic wand and make your sins go away by claiming other people did the same. The blood is still on your hands.

>>4721089
>free market

FUCK YEAR!

Oh yeah, and fuck you. Trying to hide your nature beneath sheep's clothing, huh, wolf?

>>4721087
Really? Keynes seems to think that the monetary cycle is a natural part of the value system. As did most of the classicals. Ricardo and Marx, otoh, feel that it arises from disjunctures in the structure of value within capitalism itself.

ITT: Amerifags who learned about communism from Red Dawn

PROTIP: In urban enviroments, the wellfare of the community means the welfare of the individuals; if you live in Dipshit, Nebraska you're OK to look after you and your own but in a city the community is your own. Failing this, creating aritificial divisions and segregation causes the current cancer that's eating american cities.

>>4721073
Your authoritarian ways disgust me.
RPGs should be created by individuals working together for a common good, motivated by the spirit of true freedom, you double Stalin.

There is only one future.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is either american or fucking stupid.

Its a simple FACT.

>>4721094
ITT: a bunch of brainwashed wannabe-capitalists hurp and durp.

>>4721112
Yeah, keep in mind that scholars and economists have found quite a bit of distinct flaws in Keynes' logic, hence the development of Neo-Keynesian economic thought.

Trolling: The RPG

Go

oh wait

WE GOT THE FREE MARKET GUYS

THAT MEANS WE HAVE FREEDOM


YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

0/10.

OP should feel bad for making this thread.

>>4721108
The greatest murderer in the history sure has his moral high ground.

>>4721114
>Failing this, creating aritificial divisions and segregation causes the current cancer that's eating american cities.

Communism is the answer to multiculturalism?

Austrian School beats the ass of all other economic theories.

>>4721087
Were talking about capitalism here buddy. Not anarcho-capitalism. Anarchists would get no support.

And, It is called a boom and bust cycle and it will happen whether there is intervention or not. Laissez-faire capitalism gave us recessions and depressions too.

>>4721108
I'd prefer we talked about the blood of the corrupt Spanish priests, or of the AVO/AVH secret police shot in the streets; because, by 1918 with the imposition of "One man management", public profit and wages, and 1921 with the reinstitution of private profit, there was nothing Communist in the Soviet Union.

>>4721116
0/10? Look at how many responses are in this thread and what makes up the responses. The OP has earned at least a 3 or 4 out of 10.

>>4721134

as a matter of fact, yes

>>4721087

I agree, that the whole world should just return to golden standard. But the few rich pigs on the top wouldn't allow it, because they actually do profit from current situation and even if they lose some of their wealth it's not that great issue for them, because they are already fucking rich.

>>4721134
wat?

>>4721148
Ha ha, gold standard. It has its benefits, yes, but it's not at all perfect. Keep jacking off to Ron Paul though.

>>4721132

That's you really have, just saying 'nun uh, but you are!'. That's all evil can do. It can pretend not to be evil, but nothing can hide it's vile nature. It calls others evil while reveling in it's own sin.

Stalin and Hitler both considered themselves good men and called other nations evil. They hated the Church and religion, insisting the righteous were weak. Both deny all that is right, insisting on it's own hollow, empty, evil morality.

You sir, are a dead end. An empty end that will never find anything to fill the misguided bile that rises in you.

>>4721137
False. Expansion of credit through a central bank allows businessmen to over-invest is capital goods, so when the inevitable contraction of credit comes, they lose everything. That is what causes the business cycle, sir.

>>4721142


Not trolling. Its the truth.

Eventually Communism will take over. in 5, 50 or 500 years.

It is the natural progression of society.

Fuedalism > Capitalism > Communism.

>>4721137
Anarcho-Capitalism is oxymoron anyways.

>>4721153

6/10. Bringing religion into it is always a good call for trolling.

>>4721157
Do you honestly think Communism will maintain itself with the amount of people present in society? The more people present, the greater the possibility of dissent. We already see it today.

>>4721157
Yeah, just keep pushing the date further and further away. Just like New Age idiots who predict the Age of Aquarius is just around the corner; and have been saying that for the last 40 years.

>>4721159
On what grounds?

Oh yeah, trolling.

>>4721126
Level 30 here

>>4721141

Bitches Dont know about my NEP.

Lenins very first economic policy.

While genius it was completely contradictory to communism.

>>4721157
No the natural next step is Technobarbarianism, followed by Empra

>>4721178
>followed by THE EMPRAH

Fixed.

>>4721153
Your post still reminds me of this caricature. Yes, socialism ended in multiple deaths, but the number of deaths is incomparable to the bodycount of money-lusting bitches.

>>4721157
The power development in the world is clear:
As the methods of control over territory and populace develops, the power becomes more centralized. The future is a one world government with the power to quell any unrest by either military means or though to reliance of consumer goods.

>>4721184

Even with the truth is said plain as day, you can't deviate from your narrow view. God help you.

>>4721156
...

Have you actually read anything on the business cycle? Not a fucking text book either. The concept of speculation advanced crises was thoroughly discredited by 1932.

Also at a theoretical level you're subsuming the crisis from "contraction" to "contraction of credit", so you're just bumping the problem from the general contraction of commodity value to the specific contraction in commodity value of credit.

Why are apples red? Because their surface is red.

>>4721175
He said as much. He admitted that for Communism to take place, Capitalism must reach its highest point first.

>>4721190
>You're wrong because God says so.

>>4721178

The empire of humanity is communist.

>>4721190
Sure thing, saint fucker. People were never killed in pursuit of money.

>>4721198
>before credit

CREDIT DIDN'T START WITH CREDIT CARDS DIPSHIT.

CRUISE CONTROL.

>>4721194
So, I'm wrong because Keynesians (themselves discredited by now) said I was? Argument to authority, my friend.

>>4721172
Anarcho-Capitalists are the ultimate trolls.

>>4721199

The funny thing is that communism requires just as much faith as religion.

fuck you all bitches that hate USSR!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would understand if some rich bastard defends the status quo, because they're fucking rich and it benefits them, but when I see some poor fuckers like people ITT must be, defending the fact that they keep getting poorer because the rich bastards can buy the way to keep getting richer. Shit. Its like seeing poor white trash against universal healthcare "I don't care if my kids die as long as Jamal and Pedro kids die too!"

You're the shit of this earth, America, good thing the rest of the world is catching up with you in economic, scientific and military development

>>4720602
All those glass gems are kinda girly thing to wear...

That's gay.

>>4721196


Yes Yes. I was just pointing out to the amerifags and disbelievers that the soviet union was not communist.

>>4721208
At least one doesn't have to deal with the invisible hand.

>>4721211
Way to go with the sweeping generalization. Not all Americans are into that all-too-true paradox you describe.

>>4721202
Er, I deleted the post due to not liking how I worded it. I'm not talking about credit cards, dipshit. I'm talking about credit. Believe it or not, credit has not existed since the beginning of time.

>>4721211
Communism is the ideology of a beggar who loathes those who have done better than him in life, and feels that they are entitled to support him.

>>4721213
Pearls

>>4721166
If we take the rise of feudalism, ie infeuded peasantry, to be around 500, and the cementation of capitalism as a world system as 1880, then it took capitalism about 1300 years. If we take the rise of capitalism in general to have occurred around the time capitalist relations penetrated the production process itself in a key economy, then that puts it as 1800 in the UK. Or still about 1300 years.

If we put it to the first time a European state achieved a ruling class comprised of people who subsisted off profit returns on capital, then we're looking at the Dutch around 1600, or 1100 years.

If we take it as the first extraction of wealth from merchants in Europe where long distance banking was appropriated directly by state power, then we're looking at 1400.

From the world's first true working class in England around 1800, to the first revolution where workers seized control of production in 1917, that's a scant 117 years.

>>4721211

Such is the extent of brainwashing by the western bourgeois.

>>4721224
What a twisted kind of perception you have here.

>>4721224
Funny, I can reword that to support a monarchy or feudalism.

Democracy is the ideology of a beggar who loathes those who have done better than him in life

Also, no. That would be a welfare state. Communism does not ask everyone to support them. They ask that everyone be equal and have to work for their wealth.

There isn't a single intelligent opinion in this thread, and thankfully it is auto-saging.

You know, I admit it, I rage for a while. But now, I'm chuckling to myself. Communists are so ass-backwards in their logic that it gets to be funny after a while. It's like being threatened by a small child: they talk big, but you realize that they are impotent.

Thanks for the laugh, guys.

>>4721248
>They ask that everyone be equal and have to work for their wealth.

Those two things don't go together.

>>4721252
Actually, the thread started to get smart when the communists came in. It turned into a troll fest when the anarcho-capitalist came in.

>>4721253
*reads the thread*
Sure is butthurt around here.

>>4721266
No it didn't.
A bunch of teenagers pretending to know something about economic systems they claim to support. That goes for everyone.

>>4721280
Oh, you are the butthurt person who kept saying it was an economic system and got ripped apart. I can see why you are mad. Most people on 4chan are actually adults. You shouldn't assume that everyone is underage just because you are.

>>4721253
I can't decide if that poster is being meta, or just another idiot.

>>4721232

I bet most people in this thread just lived comfy lives in their houses, bot rightwingers and leftwingers.

Well, I live in a country mostly ruled by dictators both communists and capitalists. Both kinds killed a fuckload of people. When I was a kid there was a commie terrorist group that bombed our cities and the ensuing battles with the military left 200 000 civilian casualties. I grew up in a socialist home, with a socialist upbringing and with russkie children books that were fuckawesome but then I loved free market because it lets me eat.

And you know what I think of all this shit? The middle point is the best: Free market with some goverment regulations to avoid monopoly, universal education and healthcare to ensure a generation of healthy kids. Its not that hard, its not unemployment wellfare, its not a totalitarian regiment. Extremes are always wrong and end up with a high body count

>>4721280
I also liked the bunch of americunts who know about life in Soviet Union only from propaganda they were fed.

Capitalism has brought upon a golden age of well-being and scientific advancements and equal chances for everyone.

If you can't get over the fact that there exists money in such a system you need to off yourself for the sake of better future for us all. Also gene-pool could use some cleaning from your stupidity.

>>4721300
Stop sitting on the fence and start a revolution, you boring nigger.

>>4721253
Probably what the monarchists were laughing about.

"Democrats are so ass-backwards in their logic that it gets to be funny after a while. It's like being threatened by a small child: they talk big, but you realize that they are impotent."

Then they beg for mercy like the little scumbags they are.

Communism Roleplaying System

The party gets XP based on roleplaying, and the GM secretely gives them in relationship to character's roleplaying. BUT he gives them to the party as a grand total, doesn't point to X and say "you were better than Y". Party divides and uses XPs as they like

Others?

>>4721300

Wisdom.

>>4721317
Most of which has been based on Germany's research during WW2. Your point?

>>4721300
Where did you live? I've been eating shit from capitalists and communists most of my youth as well. I still prefer the idea of socialism though. A socialist democracy where small businesses can still enjoy capitalism. Any business that can hurt my life should be nationalized.

>>4721336
Don't give me this shit! All of the world's sciece is made in America!

>>4721324
USSR RPG, Stalin Edition.
You are a KGB agent, responsible for spying on another KGB agent, who in turn is spying on another KGB agent who is monitoring some official.
Avoid being denounced for treason for as long as you can, while attempting to gather any kind of meaningful intelligence.

>>4721336
Are you implying that Nazi germany wasn't run by a combination of syndicates and junkers, ie, Capitalism as usual?

>>4721070
No, it's quite fucking simple. What china and cuba has and what soviet union was is about as far away from communism as you can get. But you wouldn't understand that seeing how you're a fucking retard.

Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Just because you wish soviet was communism doesn't mean it was.

>>4721349
If you can breathe air, thank a Capitalist.

>>4721349
lulz. Nearly made me rage. 1/10

>>4721374
ARE YOU FUCKING DENSE IT WAS SATIRE NOT TROLLING YOU FUCKING

RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

>>4721368
Can I thank my diaphragm?

If Jesus returned today, he would be a communist and killed by the Christians.

>>4721379

>>4721346

Perufag. We've been in a sort of democracy since the 80's and its working slowly

>>4721394
If Jesus returned today, he would be AMERICAN.

>>4721044
The funniest thing about that thing is that those complexes themselves are based and running on communism.

Everyone gets food, water and shelter and everything they need to survive and everyone one does their own part.

Of course there's the fact that come people are above others but the basic system that place works on is full blown communistic taint.

>>4721410
If Jesus returned today, he would die of starvation.

>>4721417
How many starving Jews have you ever seen...
...
...
...
...
...slightly more than six million.

>>4721416
ENJOY BEING A PILE OF DUST YOU COMMIE-MUTANT-TRAITOR!

>>4721449
FUCK YEAR ECONOMICS!

Hey /tg/ let's talk a little about economy. And, incidentally, why capitalism will fail.

It's called debt. Debt and loans. There's a bit to this, but simply, any time you loan money, you create money out of nothing. Or rather, the bank does. The amount of money you loaned did not exist before you loaned it. And when you return it, it goes to the bank.
What this does is slowly, over time, you create an economic bubble. Of debt. Of money that does not exist. Sometimes, this bubble bursts and we're thrown into a recession. But it's not quite a bubble, and it doesn't quite burst like a bubble does, because even after this recession the bubble is still there. And it continues to grow. Recessions get worse and worse. Until, finally, there will be a total global economic collapse, if we do not some time in the future wisen up and shun capitalism.

Hey faggots, this subject is simple.

Communists and socialist value people over money.

Capitalists value money over people.

It's fucking ironic how all the rich fuckers in the world could not have been born, grown up and gotten rich without society, i.e. the people. And then they proceed to hoard this fucking shit while other people, who works just as hard, just for the benefit of the society rather to become rich fucking cunts are treated as shit.

I'd throw each and every person valuing money over people down a dark pit right now if I could. They are of no benefit to society, and thus, no benefit to the people.

>>4721577

You're rich enough to have a computer and Internet access, probably with many other luxuries and all basic needs fulfilled.

See you in the pit, dipshit.

>>4721554
Uh, no, that's just speculation over again. Read /Contribution to a Critique/ and /Capital/ volume I for while capitalism will fail.

>>4721615

There are a lot of cheap internet cafes in the developing countries

>>4720975

The problem with Communism is that, inevitably, you cannot destroy the concept of unequal trading.

Let's say, for example, we have two communes. One has a mine in a rocky area with few fields, one has fertile farmland. A bad year strikes the first commune, who already import food from the second. The second commune decides it wants to live a little better...so it demands more metal in exchange for food. Either the first commune submits to the second, or it forges the ore from its mine into swords and goes to war. With no government, who is going to stop them?

>>4721039

Freely? No they won't. Essentially, if they police themselves, you'll have them forming shitty little city-states and doing what they can to screw the others over.

>>4721615
Yes I am rich enough to have a computer and a internet connection. Does that mean I am a capitalist? No. Does it mean I agree with capitalism? No. I am no strong enough to change the world myself, nor is anyone. But what I can do is try to convince others that people is more important than money, which is what it comes down to.

>>4721966

Sure, convince OTHERS that people are more important. Don't actually compromise your lifestyle in any way. Continue to suckle at the capitalist teat while decrying its decadence. I'm sure the poor and downtrodden you champion will agree that your comfort is more important than their needs.

If the revolution comes, you can plead "I was on YOUR side!" all you want, but you'll be lined up against the wall with the rest of us. Because to them, you'll be exactly the same. And they'll be right.

>>4722040
Do you think a revolution will seriously take everyone who has a computer and an internet connection and above and execute them? Hah, you're fucking stupid.

During the french revolution, did they kill anyone with money? No, just the very toppers.

It wouldn't make sense to kill 70-80% of the populace of pretty much most countries anyway. Especially when it would be sufficient to just kill the rich.