Raine was an abusive bitch who kicked her students in the nuts for slight transgressions.

>>4759736
So far I have stated the basic postulate, that Magick is a living entity, and shown why it works - that is, because it is within and without every entity that exists - but I have not answered the question I posed at the beginning. Why do people forget spells after casting them?

Remembering that Magick is an entity - a single living thing, even at the same time as it connects other entities - we have to look at, first, how spells are learned. Obviously there are different types of spellcasters, so they all need to be dealt with separately. Once you understand how wizards learn Magick, however, it should be much easier to understand the others. Magick as a whole is too powerful to control! It is not possible for a mortal to take control of the entirety of Magick. When first learning Magick, a wizard apprentice is taught about the varieties of Magick, known in D&D as Schools. Abjuration, Evocation, Transmutation, and the others, are simply different "colors" that combine to make up the pure essence that is Magick. A wizard learns how to separate small amounts from each of these Schools at a time as they learn Cantrips. As they memorize the Cantrip, a miniscule amount of Magick of the appropriate School is removed from the surrounding area, and is immediately filled in from elsewhere (so the overall amount of that energy is gone from the universe, but it is so spread out that the effects are impossible to determine).

>>4759784
It may sound over-complicated, but in essence you are separating a small amount of Magick and shaping it, and then holding it in your mind through force of will. As an apprentice learns how to shape and hold Magick in his mind, he may study more difficult spells and manipulate larger amounts of Magick at a given time. So, a spell is not an ability the wizard has, but an entity the wizard binds, which constantly "desires" to return to its natural state as part of the Entity that is Magick. When the wizard "casts the spell" he is merely allowing it to escape. As it escapes his mind, it takes the form he shaped it into after separating it from the Magick around him. And that is the essence of Vancian spellcasting.

A cleric or druid does exactly the same thing, but instead of learning how to separate and shape stronger amounts of Magick, their faith is what aids them in preparing spells. Instead of learning how to separate spells from the Magick around them, they learn to pray better; in effect, as they level up they are becoming more in tune with what their faith is willing to give them - alternately, the being that is granting them Magick has more faith in -them-, giving them access to more and more Magickal power.

blah, blah, blah, collected magic energy stored in the brain, blah, blah, blah, sage goes in every field, blah, PENIS, blah

.rewop lakcigaM erom dna erom ot ssecca meht gnivig ,-meht- ni htiaf erom sah kcigaM meht gnitnarg si taht gnieb eht ,yletanretla - meht evig ot gnilliw si htiaf rieht tahw htiw enut ni erom gnimoceb era yeht pu level yeht sa ,tceffe ni ;retteb yarp ot nrael yeht ,meht dnuora kcigaM eht morf slleps etarapes ot woh gninrael fo daetsnI .slleps gniraperp ni meht sdia tahw si htiaf rieht ,kcigaM fo stnuoma regnorts epahs dna etarapes ot woh gninrael fo daetsni tub ,gniht emas eht yltcaxe seod diurd ro cirelc A

>>4759803
If a spell is a part of the fibre of Magick that is merely leashed until the moment the spellcaster lets it loose in the direction he wishes, then what about Spontaneous spellcasters? They can cast any of a number of spells from the same pool, even spells of different schools. Why?

I will return now to the relationship dragons have with Magick. They are a strongly Magickal race, from their ability to fly to their breath weapons and spell-like abilities, spell resistance, supernaturally thick scales granting DR X/Magic... and then even the ability to spontaneously cast spells. Again, they don't necessarily think about how their Magick comes into play. They simply have strong affinities for certain forms Magick can take.

Think about this: Spells are forms of Magick... So a specific dragon may have an affinity for the form of Magick that becomes the Prestidigitation spell, for instance. Their innate connection to Magick is expressed through their force of personality, and as they grow older they become more in tune with Magick, and can therefore cast stronger spells.

.gnitsaclleps naicnaV fo ecnesse eht si taht dnA .mih dnuora kcigaM eht morf ti gnitarapes retfa otni ti depahs eh mrof eht sekat ti ,dnim sih sepacse ti sA .epacse ot ti gniwolla ylerem si eh "lleps eht stsac" draziw eht nehW .kcigaM si taht ytitnE eht fo trap sa etats larutan sti ot nruter ot "serised" yltnatsnoc hcihw ,sdnib draziw eht ytitne na tub ,sah draziw eht ytiliba na ton si lleps a ,oS .emit nevig a ta kcigaM fo stnuoma regral etalupinam dna slleps tluciffid erom yduts yam eh ,dnim sih ni kcigaM dloh dna epahs ot woh snrael ecitnerppa na sA .lliw fo ecrof hguorht dnim ruoy ni ti gnidloh neht dna ,ti gnipahs dna kcigaM fo tnuoma llams a gnitarapes era uoy ecnesse ni tub ,detacilpmoc-revo dnuos yam tI

>MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK MAGICK

holy shit dude

>>4759736

>>4759825
From the standpoint of a sorcerer or bard, this translates to exactly the same thing: They have an affinity to certain spells. Their force of personality controls how strong their affinity is with Magick, and as they grow more experienced they find affinity with more and stronger spells. The reason they can't use two level 1 slots to cast one level 2 spell, or one level 2 slot to cast two level 1 spells, is relatively simple:

Higher level spells are just of completely different magnitudes. When learning a new spell level, you are learning a whole new way of spellcasting - so you can cast the easier spells as you used to, but the new spells require more thought. You can use the new, more complex way of spellcasting to cast the easier spells too, but you can't use the simpler way of spellcasting to cast the more difficult spells.

so there's this rather tasty girl at my college, sadly she has autism, she's not really high on the spectrum, she's just a bit odd and slow maybe.

but yeh she really likes me because I quite often help her with course work.

so anyway we had a rather late valentines day do last week (hall was closed so we had to find and book a venue) and she turned up looking really smart, but you could easily see her curves, she looked absolutely stunning.

well she came and spoke to me and i got her a few drinks, she was really funny actually, by the time I'd had a few i couldn't even remember or notice she had autism.

well it got to like 1am and we left, rather drunk, and she asked to stay at mine, I thought It wouldn't do any harm I wouldn't do anything.so we got a taxi to mine.

we got in, took our jackets and shoes off, and collapsed on the couch, we were lying right next to each other, she spun round and rested her hand on my chest, and started stroking it.

I didn't know what to do! 5 seconds later I decided to go for it.

I ran my hands down her side, across her stomach and down her panties. It was wet and felt amazing. she was so tight I even had to start with my pinky.

I slowly stroked her clit then pushed my finger deep inside (inside) What kind of Pokemon are you? Are you loyal through and through? Do you have a heart that's true? What kind of Pokemon are you?

Take your NORMAL type like Jigglypuff Against the GHOSTLY Gengar the battle's real tough Thunderbolt's a great ELECTRIC attack 'Til you get GROUND down by a Marowak

>>4759848

You point would be valid, if you didn't insist on spelling Magic with a goddamn 'k'.

>>4759848
cup of brewed shit?

>>4759854

>>4759850
And now for the tl;dr version: Vancian casting makes sense if you see the spells as part of something outside the spellcaster, wanting to return to it. The spellcaster prepares spells by separating Magick from the world, and casts spells by letting the Magick return to the world, as long as it follows the paths the caster desires.

>>4759854

Umm...Is this some kind of new variant on the 'Bel-Air'? Because it's kind of sad and pathetic.

>>4759875
Your magic is inferior. Sorcerers are the future.

>>4759856
Seconding this. It makes the whole thing look like a tutorial for some freaky-ass JRPG.

D&D's magic, across all editions, has been built with game mechanics in first priority and fluff second. There is no point in trying to justify how either Vancian spellcasting or 4e's at-will/encounter/daily power system functions in-universe, because the magic system is purely a construct of the rules before all else. Certainly, there exist RPGs wherein the flavor and fluff of the magic system are crafted first, and the mechanics tailored around them (Mage, I'm looking at you), but D&D is not one of them.

>>4759856
It would have been too much of a pain to go back and undo the k's I'd already done by the time I'd finished <_< I felt it was worthwhile while writing it to call it Magick because I was referring to it as an entity rather than just a tool to be used.

>>4759919

>I felt it was worthwhile while writing it to call it Magick because I was referring to it as an entity rather than just a tool to be used.

Why? You seem to be trying to provide an explanation without actually giving any sort of reasons for your actions, it's like saying "You see officer, the reason I robbed the bank is because my wallpaper is purple."

So, lose the 'k's at the end of the word 'Magic'. Any other thoughts about it? I mostly just have heard a lot of people say "It doesn't make sense" and thought it would be helpful for them.

>>4759919
In that case it would have been better if you had just called it something completely different. Even 'Bob' would have been less WTF-ish.

>>4759911
Ehr, the fluff WAS constructed before the system. That's why it's called "Vancian" magic.

It's not that vancian spellcasting is hard to understand.

It's that vancian spellcasting is stupid.

>>4759938

The word 'Magick' is used to refer to magic as a proper noun, as when addressing it. At least in my mind. I may be slightly crazy but that is okay, right?

>>4759965
The primary concern in design wasn't "LOL LET'S USE THE DYING EARTH MAGICK IT'S COOL", it was "Hey, this makes sense for the rules."

>>4759968
Constructively, what do you find stupid about it? I would like to write a reasoned and well-thought out response to your post in an effort to enlighten you.

>>4759980
No.

>>4759980

actually the term "magick" was invented by Aleister Crowley to differentiate the made-up-not-real shit he did from the made-up-not-real shit talked about in fiction.

the "-k" is because he used his dick to do magick i don't know. look it up.

tl:dr - "magick" is faggy and you are a fag for using it instead of the actual english word which is good enough you fag.

Wasn't it stated somewhere that Vancian magic works because the spellcaster casts 99% of the spell in the morning, and casts the last 1% in the actual casting time of the spell?

It's not a perfect explanation, but it's certainly less tl;dr than this.

>>4759995
I know they didn't bother to explain any kind of fluff for why the system is Vancian in the rules. That's why I figured people might really be confused and not just trolling because it's D&D/3e or they're bored.

>>4760019
I quite like Vancian magic. Okay, sure, it's hard to keep track of, but spell points and such become a nightmare with metamagic as well so that's hardly an improvement.

I thought the official explanation was that every spell actually required lots and lots of time and effort to cast. What every wizard does when he 'prepares' his spells is pre-cast most of them 99%, to the point where it only requires less than 6 seconds of song and dance to trigger the spell by completing the final 1%. That's why sorcerers are supposed to be hot shit: they don't prepare spells. It's not just a matter of spells prepared vs spell slots, but rather they intuitively perform the magic that wizards need hours to prepare.

A wizard's spell is like a house of cards that requires one final card to make it complete. The wizard pre-builds the house just how he likes it, and when he needs to use the spell, he places the final card, and assuming he doesn't screw up (spell fizzles due to taking damage or failing concentration checks or whatever), the house of cards is complete.

Whereas a sorcerer can just fling a stack of cards in the air and have it come down as a perfect multi-tiered card-house.

>>4760034
T_T

>MAGICK

My spellchecker (lol) is crying right now.

From now on I am spelling it magicke.

>>4760066
Hm. So would it be possible to cast a spell not prepared for/not in your spell slots if you do spend the aforementioned hours of preparation?

As in, you build the house of cards right then and there, taking however long it would take to do so?

>>4760148
Magique

>>4760148
From now on I am spelling it magiqcke.

>>4760158
That's the way it probably works. Although most of the time if you really, REALLY need a magic missile, spending an hour or so to cast it won't help too much.

>>4759968
Really? It's the only thing that keeps spellcasters from being ridiculously overpowered from the gate. Even though the XP costs to make potions/scrolls get laughable once you get to a certain level, it's the only thing that used to keep an entire party from rolling casters.

Now 4e makes everybody a caster. I'm not sure if that's a step forward or a step back.

>>4760181
Well, like, for instance, taking that preparation time to cast a utility spell like read magic or light or identify.

Would you rule it possible, or would it be that the spell "slots" is also an abstraction of how much, say, mental effort you can put into building those houses of cards per day, and therefore you might as well prepare spells?

..then again, if you leave a single slot open you can on-the-fly use a utility spell that you wouldn't be hampered casting after a couple hours of preparation.

MMAAGGIICCKKEE MISSILE!

>>4760066
>>4760215
AFAIK that IS the way it works in 3.5. A wizard can leave any number of his spell slots blank, and fill them in with fifteen minutes (presumably each) of hurried study. So yeah, a wizard who leaves a few low-level spell slots blank will generally be able to cobble together a read magic or identify spell if he runs into some runes he can't read. Of course, he can't do the above if he has to fight off a tribe of goblins at the same time.

>>4760215
I am asking because I'm DMing a 1e campaign at early levels, and Magic-Users are all but worthless at that stage.

>>4760210
Yeah cuz Orbmaster's Prismatic Blast or Doom of Delban is totally the same thing as hitting someone really hard with a sword.

>>4760215
>After resting, a wizard must study her spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If she wants to prepare all her spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of her daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.

>When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells.

>>4760238
>Doom of Delban
Don't you mean, ION CANNON?

>>4760247
Doesn't this kill the point of sorcerers?

>>4760238

Isn't it basically mechanically the same? In 4e, I mean.

>>4760296

The point of sorcerers is more spells per day with a limited list. The point of wizards is more variety of spells. I see nothing wrong with wizards being able to take 15 minutes to prepare a spell if they have 15 minutes to spare.

fuck yeah Tales of Symphonia