It doesn't ever appear to say what the Supernatural Disturbance ability actually DOES.

>>5889985
It reacts with the mana within them, and remains upon them for 1d6 rounds, each round forcing a concentrationg check at DC 10 + Craft (Alchemy) of the Physician.
Once the Physician reaches level 12, he can create two globs of this lotion, and the effects expand to dispelling the spell effects upon those afflicted with the lotion, starting with the weakest spell, one per round.

>>5890017
Yes, that's what the TEXT says. What the hell does it DO? "It reacts with the mana within them" is not a phrase that means anything to me.

I also decided to split Surgery into two abilities, one for normal healing and one for serious healing. The one in the .txt is too complex, and I believe that this will be better.

Administer: level 1
Allows the Physician to tend to a characters wounds, resetting joints and applying salves, healing hp up to equal to his heal skill. The usage of administer requires one charge of a healer's kit and takes a full round action for both participants. The Physician may administer a number of times each day equal to his intelligence bonus.
Administer may, instead of healing damage, instead remove the following conditions: Bleeding, Blinded, Caltrops, Confused, Dazzled, Deafened, Dying, Fatigued (Once per character per day), Nauseated, Sickened, Stunned, or Unconconscious. Dying characters may also become Stable through the use of this ability. When a status condition is removed, however, no damage may be healed though one use of Administer for the day is used up, so for dying characters the standard use of the heal skill may be more appropriate.

Surgery: Mid Level?
Instead of healing some hp, now it heals all of a wounded character's hp and restores permanent ability score damage. The time the surgery takes is one minute per hp healed and ten minutes per ability score point healed. Unconscious characters do not struggle to escape the pain. A botched procedure deals 1d10 damage for every total level of the Physician, including non-Physician levels, minus his int and dex bonuses. Unless the botch was on purpose, in which case the two bonuses are instead added to the damage dealt.

>>5890026
Reacts with the mana within them is fluff, dude. I'll add "as if the spellcaster developed an allergy to their own magic" for clarification.

>>5890039
But that still doesn't mean anything to me! Does it prevent all spellcasting? Does it function like an antimagic field? Near as I can tell there is no mechanic here--how precisely does it prevent spellcasting? Vigorous sneezing and breaking out in hives?

>>5890061
it doesn't prevent spellcasting, it forces a concentration check when spells are cast so it has a chacne to disrupt spellcasting.

changed it to "...forcing a concentrationg check at DC 10 + Craft (Alchemy) of the Physician each time the spellcaster does something which may require a Concentration check, such as casting a spell."

>>5890082
The wording is what was tripping me up--I was trying to figure out where the physician's skills came into it. My own attempt at the wording's probably no better: "It reacts with the mana within them, and remains upon them for 1d6 rounds. Any spellcasting attempts during that time must succeed on a concentration check of DC 10 + the number of ranks (if any) the physician has in Craft (Alchemy)."

>>5890132
Thanks for pointing out the confusion... it was late at night (early in the morning?) when I turned my basic notes into longhand, so there's bound to be stuff like that.

"It reacts with the mana within them as if the spellcaster developed an allergy to their own magic, and remains active upon them for 1d6 rounds. While the lotion is affecting the spellcaster, any spellcasting attempts during that time must succeed on a Concentration check of DC 10 + the number of ranks (if any) the Physician has in Craft (Alchemy) or fail."

Is this worded better?

Anybody else have anything to say about this class? I'm keeping an eye on this thread.


Oh, the archived old thread, if you want to see the creative process:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5863733/

Excellent!
I'm happy to see the class came together. It is to my great satisfaction! Well done!
Now all we need is a Dapper Gentleman and Street Ruffian and I'll be set!

>>5890431
Thank you for the jubilations good sir, but may I ask if you have any ways with which you could help to make the class more effective and or simpler?

Bumping; I know of several people who were interested in the thread being restarted, and I hope they see it with this bump.

Nobody else has any feedback?

I'd argue Fort should be a good save. given the number of diseases they'll likely be exposed to and the ick of surgery/vivisection a good fort is a good idea. or maybe a ability to use will for certain fort saves (eg vs disease and nauseating effects)

>>5891102
I like the idea of the will saved being used for diseases and poisons, I'll include that. Thanks

>>5891175
Corpuscular Training: The Physician is trained to not balk at the sight of an opened cadaver, and has learned how to deal with illnesses. For diseases, poisons, and nauseating effects, the Physician can substitute his Will save instead of the Fortitude save.

>>5889885

Why did the OP never realize that this class could simply be played as a rogue with a specialized skill-set and maybe a basic class feature swap here and there?

Seriously, new base class based on vivisection.... /facepalm

>>5891302
Because, that's what it started as? Then we ran with it? Because it's entertaining?

You're a fucking faggot. Just play a Cleric, and quit being a queer.

>>5891382
>I'm anti-creativity and I don't like it when people actually do something which wasn't carved in stone five hundred years ago

Any more constructive criticism?

>>5891423
Except what you're making isn't fucking original, asshat. You're just taking aspects from the wizard, cleric, and rogue and putting them together in a half-assed, bumfucked, shit retarded class. It's a useless fucking class. Get over it, jackass.

Archivist ?

Let me just point out that this class was designed to not use magic. Cleric and Archivist do not follow in the no-magic healer/buffer theme.

>>5891645
It's pretty sad you can get so worked up over what someone else plays.

OP; what exactly does the level 14 Anatomical Knowledge ability do? It seems unclear.

HA HA HA WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING. OH HOLY SHIT. I was expecting it to be bad, but only retarded-bad, not broken bad.

Oh holy shit. Where to begin. Okay, to start with, it has the sneak attack of a rogue and the favored enemy of a ranger, except that it can change the favored enemy bonus between adventures. It adds int mod to attack and damage. Okay, fine, so its a superior but thematic version of the rogue plus the ranger. I'm okay with that.

Then lets see. They can give full heals, have instant kill (well, paralysis + coup de grace) powers usable every round at will at DCs no one will ever succeed at ever (DC 10 + level + int mod, holy shit), can grant huge amounts of buffs (hit, damage, favored enemy, dodge, and yes, more inescapable paralyzing attacks) to their allies far beyond that which a spell grants with just a skill check, and of course, have antimagic goo that you do a ranged touch on a caster and he basically can't cast for the rest of the fight... which, to be fair, is a completely redundant ability, since the physician can already one shot anything.

Except constructs, oozes, and undead! So hey, that's something.

The tl;dr is vastly superior fighter to a Weeaboo Fightan Magic character, who is also a mega-cleric with unlimited spells.

>>5891755
It allows his teammates to Disable an enemy with their attack if the enemy fails the save. Sorry, the wording was a bit unclear.

Also why the fuck does this need two goddamn threads?

>>5891764

>>5891764
Then help me fix it?

>>5891786
An additional thread was requested by other people so we could continue working on the class, since the people participating all had to sleep.

>>5891737
Gobble some cock, motherfucker. I like cursing. Yes, I know it's juvenile but fuck you. Now prove me wrong you dick smuggling son of a bitch, or go back to fudge packing.

>>5891831
>>5891645
Okay, it's op here. yes, I know that it's a bit of rogue and cleric, but other than knowladge skillz lolz how is it wizard?

>>5891831
It's not about you cursing, fuckwad. It's about you getting so worked up over something so insignificant as what class someone else makes/plays. Holy shit, fag, does it really bother you that much?

>The tl;dr is vastly superior fighter to a Weeaboo Fightan Magic character, who is also a mega-cleric with unlimited spells.

Lolno. Clerics slaughter ToB characters, period. They're better at melee fighting than them in the first place.

>>5891858
The counter-spellcasting is kind of a wizard/abjurer thing. That and the whole quest for knowledge crap.

>>5891888
The anti-spellcaster ability was actually inspired by a rogue ability from, oh what was it, the Pathfinder setting.

I played a homebrew Swordsage discipline that was intended to do exactly this.

Needless to say it's a lot more balanced.

>>5891865
Fuck no you cunt badger. I'm just pointing out that the class is royally fucked and it would be far better to play any one of the other classes I named than this aborted fetus.

>>5891858
Buffs superior to that of a caster, and at will, instant death effects superior to that of a caster, and at will... and utterly fucking irresistable. Perhaps more importantly, no SR. And I don't know if its intentional, but your RAW suggest the nausea doesn't allow a save or anything. And of course, superior healing to the cleric...

See, the wizard has the somewhat balancing factor of that while he can rape shit, he can only do so a few times per day, the victim gets spell resistance, and gets a fairly easy saving throw. Your version has at will instant death shit (don't kid yourself, paralysis is exactly as bad if not worse, considering a living victim is more useful) that is usable at will, that your freakin ALLIES can deliver at will...

Its actually the first homebrew fighter/wizard/thief/cleric that actually beats all those classes at their own job.

>>5891924
Ain't aborted yet, bro.

>>5891931
Then why not help come up with ways to limit that ability? I know that there are faults with this class, I am actively seeking out assistance in removing those faults. That's kinda the point of this thread.

Its actually a literal godmode class, as if you consider in 3E the most powerful ability all gods share is their ability to use antimagic fields that only affect enemies.

>>5891888
Yeah, the knowledge thing kinda reminds me of a diviner or cloistered cleric.

>>5891955
The anti-spellcasting ability was put in because there were no other magic-counters. Should there be some sort of save for the dispell or something?

Also, I have to head somewhere for a little while, I'll respond to everybody after this post when I get back. Not quite sure when that will be.

>>5891933
This bitch was doomed from conception, goatfucker.

>>5891946
This shit is so fucked up that it would be better to scrap the damn thing and simply work on modifying an existing class to do something similar. Quit being a bitch and accept that the class is flawed beyond repair.

>>5891979
Gotta go cry and masturbate using your own tears for lube, I see.

I will chime in with this: I don't think the spirit of this character really works in DnD, not the way it is.
A character class that uses actual medical knowledge in a fight would get absurd advantages in battle, due to the fact that it is really easy to kill/cripple if you know exactly what to hit. Such a character would be a glass cannon in every sense of the word.
The problem is that DnD isn't built on smart fighting, it's built on overwhelming force and the idea that you can "mitigate" it's use (rope trick ends that theory cold).
A smart fighter would be able to royally fuck up something if it was aware if it's physiology. The right blow here, the single cut there, could end a battle before it began. Thus leading to the gripes in this thread about it being "overpowered". It IS, because fighting smart is not factored into DnD's idea and method of combat.
OP, such a character would work in many other games, but not this one,
/post before it devolves into vitriol and loses it's purpose

>>5891946
Okay, I'd first remove their actually magical powers, ie the glob of antimagic and the ability to cure energy drain, thus forcing them to rely on their ability to one shot everything against spellcasters.

Second, the full heal stuff has got to go. That's blatantly supernatural, and more powerful than what clerics have.

Third, permit a saving throw for nausea, and use the universal class-based saving throw calculation of 10+1/2 level+int mod for all saves. This makes the physician "only" have the equivalent of Slay Living At Will with no Spell Resistance or Death Ward possible.

Additional features: let them make sneak attacks and the special death style effects even in poor illumination or when the victims have concealment. Replace the full heal shit with something along the lines of granting Regen 20/acid and fire or such for an hour -- amusingly, trollish regeneration is not magical, but instant max HP recovery always is.

Finally, IMPOSE SOME GOD DAMN LIMIT on his knowledge based buffing, in terms of to how many people, how long it lasts, etc. etc.

>>5892045
I don't think medical knowledge would be much of an asset in a fight. Maybe in a surprise attack/coup de grace... oh yeah, that's already covered by sneak attack.

>>5892079
You don't understand what "cripple the enemy" means. D&D doesn't let you do this with no reasoning behind not letting you do it.

>>5892166
Well, okay, I meant to say sneak attack + death attack. Death attack represents it a lot more closely.

>>5892079
It would be, as it does not take much to disable something if you know where to strike.
Humans have an abundance of weak points that can be taken advantage of, if they are not wearing heavy armor to protect it. Blows around the heart, solar plexus, groin, triceps, neck and hips can almost immediately disable a person, force them to pause at the least.
Knowledge of tendons can provide targets that will immediately cripple.
Cardiovascular knowledge can be taken advantage of to literally bleed someone to death as they stand.
I think OP simply needs to tweak a few things. There is actual training that can be taken to resist the debilitating effects of getting struck at a pressure point, spells and simple things like a tourniquet can still undue the worst damage that can be caused, and ALL of these things are wholly useless against spectors and undead.
I still fail to see why people are up in arms about this.
Have such specialized attacks be taken at penalty. The harder it is to close the distance, and the more lethal the attack, the higher the penalty.
Done.

>>5891924
No actually. He's actually going go fuck your mother now that I'm done. Be constructive or GTFO.
>>5889885

Hey
Sorry I made another thread about this.
>>5892073
He has that ability already actually. It's called Anatomical Knowledge.

>the more lethal the attack, the higher the penalty. Done.

Power attack, sneak attack, death attack. Done.

Seriously, you act as if this was a remotely novel concept. People have been "I call shot to the head/eyes, give me extra damage nao plox" since, what? 1e? Its always been the trademark of retarded powergamers who want to oneshot everything.

Such tricks are only going to work if your character has a long ass preparation time and your victim is unawares. In heated combat, both participants are trying to score lethal blows on each other already.

>>5892202
This man has the right idea.
It makes sense it just needs some tweaking.
>>5889885
Some other things that might be worth looking at could be a d6 Hit die and only 6 skills per rank. Someone in the other thread said that we should drop spot and listen because he wouldn't be as trained other classes at this. Have the rogue go check it out in other words.

>>5892218
Does it have as much unneeded bitching as this one?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769638&postcount=7

Read the Viper Fang maneuvers. This pretty much makes the Swordsage what you want it to be.

>>5892282
No, you fucking idiot. That's not the only thing called shots are used for.

>>5892289
Not at all actually it's a little quieter though.

>>5892282
>both participants are trying to score lethal blows on each other already.
They are trying to hit each other, not land blows in specific places with the intent on disabling the opponent. There is the difference.
And you story falls on it's face once you bring up the fact that most of those people are not playing classes that are TRAINED from the get go to strike critical points. Just calling a shot gets you nothing.
Hell, the entire "critical hit" idea is built around this, it just does more damage, instead of status crippling.
Would this even be an issue if it was a low level curse that inflicted negative modifiers?

>>5892331
There are certainly various flavors of how powergamers will try to justify "durr, I attacks hims in the weak spot for more damages and no downside" but it all boils down to "I shoot him in the head." Guess what? All combatants ever, at least those with intelligence and experience, are trying to hit the enemy in a vulnerable spot with every attack. Your idea was old hat before 2E came out.

>>5892386
Mutants & Masterminds actually had a variant rule that would let you replace your extra damage from a crit with an appropriate 10 point power effect - so instead of higher damage with a giant maul, you'd be able to stun them instead.

It's probably one of the better parts of the system, since it mostly adds to the dynamic combat. Sure, it slows it down every now and then, but it's not even close to common.

>>5892406
Your post is so stupid I don't know where to begin.

>>5892406
Yeah but do those people know intimate knowledge of where specifically a persons/creatures' bodys' weakpoints are. What if it's brain is in its' ass. What then? Or it's heart is in it's thigh? how would they know to aim there?

We may also want to look at Health Boosters. at twenty level, a person could theoretically swallow all five gain 100 temp hp and plus 20 to their fortitude saves. Thats pretty powerful stuff.

>>5892716
>at twenty level, a person could theoretically swallow all five gain 100 temp hp and plus 20 to their fortitude saves
Medicine like that would kill you irl, at that dosage.

>>5891223
What level would they get that at?

>>5892817
The temporary hp and fortitude saves stack, but when the temporary health is lost, the consumer takes 2d6 unblockable damage for every Booster consumed after the first one.

>>5892317
Holy shit you weren't lying.
Bloodletting Strike
Viper Fang (Strike)
Level: 6
Prerequisite: Two Viper Fang maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Duration: See below

As your knife plunges into your enemy's flesh, a stream of blood pours out. You know that you've hit the right spot, and that it's only a matter of time before your enemy bleeds out.

When you initiate this maneuver, make a heal check as part of the maneuver, with a DC equal to the target's AC. You then make a melee attack, also as part of the maneuver. If the attack hits and the Heal check is successful, it deals 2d6 bonus damage, in addition to normal melee damage. The target then takes 2d6 damage per round for four rounds. Following that, he then takes 1d4 damage per round until that is treated, either as a full-round action requiring a heal check with a DC equal to your check result, or with magical healing. Those using magical healing must make a check (1d20 + caster level + healing spell's save DC (or the DC it would have if it had one) - 10), against the same DC as a heal check to treat the wound does; otherwise, it keeps bleeding.

from the physician
Anatomical Strike: The Physician eventually learns anatomy so well that he may use his scalpel or another light bladed melee weapon to deliver carefully chosen, precise strikes with great effect. At every fifth level he may chose one strike from the list below. Only one strike may be used a round, and it must be a full attack action.
Artery Strike - 1 more damage each round for rounds equal each die of the Sneak Attack, unless the victim receives magical healing.

Alright, OP back.

Hey Hesh, good to see you again.

I've looked over the results a bit, here are my responses...

Hp has been lowered and skill points have been lowered to 6 each.

Health Booster already has a damage dealing side effect when you pop more than one, is it too low? What should it be changed by?

The 10+1/2 level+int mod for saving throws sounds good, I think I will implement that.

The anti-magic goop is just a collection of herbs and manufactured "medicines" like the health booster so it is not magical, and the restoration of drained ability scores would be going in to the muscles and nerves and undoing the physical component of the drain. The Physician's science doesn't quite follow modern science, so poking in the brain to restore charisma is something he could theoretically do. The full heal is a long invasive surgery, not just a quick heal like the Heal spell, and it can not return the dead to life. There is nothing the Physician can do to return the dead to the living.

Hey, OP! I added this to the previous thread, probably once everybody had gone to bed. I'm assuming you never saw it, so I'll repost it here. Also, unfortunately, I once again have to go to bed soon, so I can't fully participate here.

WATCH YOUR COMPLEXITY

I'm very tired now, and thus incapable of going through all of this meticulously (or really doing anything but skimming it). I see a lot of neat ideas, but I am concerned about complexity. How good a system is can effectively be represented by how cool it is divided by how complicated it is to run. But the complexity in various components tends to multiply together, so that even if you come up with fairly simple ideas, you can still end up with a muddled mess if there's enough of them. It's good game etiquette to keep any new material you invent as simple as you can: simpler than original content if at all possible. It makes it easier for DMs to assess, and prevents it from slowing down your game (and because it's new information to learn and integrate, it's already starting off at a disadvantage in this regard). Don't overdo things. Each new detail you add is cool, but since coolness tends to increase in an almost arithmetical pattern (2 + 2 + 2) and complexity in an almost geometric pattern (2 x 2 x 2), this quickly gets out of hand. I'm not saying toss everything out, but try to go back and trim things down a little. The study / vivisection section, for instance, could be pared down significantly. To demonstrate my point, here is a list of the values and checks used in that section: 24 hours, d4 hours, weeks = 1/2 level, DC 10 + monster level, 24 hours, DC -5, original DC, 2d4 hours, weeks = level, favored enemy bonus, 1 race at a time, creature's HD.

With all of that said, I like your class, at least that which I've been able to discern through my squinted eyes. Now I must sleep.

>>5892852
What level do you think would be a good level?

Oh, and I also changed Surgery so that at least one day's worth of Long-Term Care'd rest is needed, 1d6 currently. If the patient does more than light actions during that time, they are immediately exhausted and, hmm, put at staggered?

>>5893050
I actually saw that when I read the archive yesterday, heh, and it's part of why I split Surgery into two less complex abilities.

>Hp has been lowered and skill points have been lowered to 6 each.
I was a little concerned about the power issue, myself, and was thinking of recommending something similar. The only thing that gave me pause was the much more limited ways in which sneak attack and chosen enemy work in Adventuring Physician. Still, it's probably the right choice. If nothing else, its better to slightly under-power a class you are adding than to over-power it. Over-powering it undermines all the core stuff and makes you look like a greedy bastard (and makes your DM distrust you). Also, it's easier to upgrade a character later on than it is to downgrade him.

>>5893064
That's a toughie a medium to lower level for sure.
I agree with surgery being split up.
>>5893108
That's very true. It's going to be difficult to convince him anyway but It will be definitely worth it.

>>5893074
Sorry, I missed that. Was just looking at the file, itself. Yes, that's a dramatic improvement!

Let me say, however, that I still think you should go through the entire class and try to simplify and minimize everything. Do away with any powers that aren't essential and drop exceptions and special circumstances from ones you are going to keep. I would, for instance, drop the 1/2 damage provision of sneak attack (which is something else to remember and slows down combat with one extra step of math) and just make it no sneak attack damage.

I wish I had more time to participate here, but I've gotta crash. Good luck.

>>5893282
Thank you four the thoughts on it, the no sneak attack damage was what I was originally going to do anyways. I'll return that.

Death Blow
Viper Fang (Strike)
Level: 3
Prerequisite: One Viper Fang maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One Creature

You make a savage cut, ignoring the possibility of inflicting lesser wounds in favor of rapidly killing your enemy

Make a single melee attack. If your enemy is flat-footed or denied dexterity to AC, your weapon's critical threat range expands by two (applied after, and stacking with Keen and Improved Critical. You gain another +2 bonus to your critical threat range if your target is flanked. Finally, you must make a Heal check against a DC equal to the target's AC. If this fails, you take a -4 penalty on your roll to confirm a critical hit, but if it succeeds, your weapon's threat range expands by another 1. If this attack is a critical hit, you inflict an extra 10d6 damage, but if it is not, you inflict only half damage.

This is a badass maneuver.

>>5893358
The viper attacks seem cool, but even if they flat out replaced the sneak attack (which should be renamed, admittedly), their introduction would make the class even more complex.

>>5893039
Hey man.I approve of the changes. health booster may be to powerful overall I'm stumped. Sorry

>>5893427
Maybe if the crash includes ability score damage, 2 points str and con for every booster taken after the first?

Okay, one last thing and then I really am gone. I don't know if this has been addressed anywhere, but let me opine on study. This is the study section minus vivisection, which I don't have time to do. I tweaked some things and put notes in [brackets]. I'm not trying to make you do things this way, I'm just giving you a specific example of the kind of things I'm talking about.

Study: The most important skill of an Adventuring Physician is to heal, and equally important is to learn how to heal. To do so, Physicians perform autopsies on both the living and the dead, both to determine what makes the creatures tick and how to stop them from ticking. Dissection may be performed on any dead creature with discernable anatomy (Basically, any sneak attack target) [dropped plants to keep it simple] within 24 hours after it died. Doing so takes several hours [dropped d4 hours so that it's not something you really have to keep track of... several hours pretty much just means "a while" and leaves it up to the DM], and during the process, the Physician takes notes and studies the creature.

continued in next post...

continued...

Each act of studying a corpse provides many benefits, including access to several class features, for the race studied. Subraces are included in the studying, creature types are not. Dissecting an Elf also provides benefits against Drow; disscting a goblin does not provide benefits against hobgoblins. [Dropped stuff on how long a physician retains benefits. I don't like making the physician keep track of the expiration date on a bunch of different creatures he's autopsied Why not make this a permanent bonus, but limit the number of creatures he can maintain knowledge of at any given time?]. A Profession (Doctor) check must be passed to successfully study and take notes about a race, the DC of which is 10 + the HD of the monster. [dropped bit about physician being interrupted. This is something a DM can just wing] . [Dropped the stuff about restudying, which should probably be removed for simplicity. This means that the physican would have to dissect again to get a bonus, but we can assume that note studying is necessary to get the bonus in the first place] A failure of the Profession check requires the use of another specimin; the notes are now useless, as is the mutilated corpse.

>>5893522
>>5893529
I think that these changes can definitely be workable and make the whole act easier. How about he can have Studied one race per Int bonus at a time (not counting the field guide)?

>>5893445
That will even the score a bit I think. So if someone were to take all five, that would 8d6 and --8 strength and -8 con. That seems to work very well actual;ly. How long would all of that last? until they are healed or through resting correct?
>>5893414
I don't think that we should use those just learn from them. Maybe Heal/profession Doc to hit AC for those anatomy attacks?
>>5893039
What was this for again?

And did u or did you not take out the sneak attack?

>>5893557


Post 5893039 was in general reference to a selection of posts made while I was gone, such as >>5892060. The saving throw DC thing is just to standardize my current saving throws, which are different for each ability.

Sneak attack is still in. The nauseating attack now has a save.

I'm now thinking an Int bonus max to the number of characters which can benefit from Anatomical Knowledge, himself included?

>>5893602
Yes to the anatomical knowledge limit.
So are we still going with Full Sneak Attack. My friend brought up that It may still be overpowered since he does almost exactly the same thing as the rogue. The scout for instance has a similar ability as long as he's moving. His max is 5d6 plus 5 AC at level 19. Just something to mull over.

>>5893681
Yeah, I'm thinking of lowering the rate of progression for the sneak attack. Instead of every other level, once every three levels? 1-4-7-10-13-16-19? That gets up to 7d6... Four levels would be 1-5-9-13-17, 5d6.

>>5893747
If we had 5d6 then I would suggest something to add to it maybe making it easier to use his anatomical strikes or something else. If not that I'm good with 7d6.

>>5893747
I'd personally go for a lesser sneak attack in favour of greater party buffs, after all, most of the characters best work is done post mortem, the bastards just don't understand that fine surgery requires them to STAY FUCKING STILL.

>>5892989

That's very weak for the level - a Wizard would throw down a Circle of Death, Feeblemind, Baleful Polymorph or Flesh to Stone and make that guy feel really small in the breeches.

Okay fine, fighters can't have nice things and I'm a horrible person and roleplayer for suggesting it - don't I know that a fighter can do this all day and a Wizard has to run and hide and is therefore really weak in your DM's homebrew/low magic campaign?

Yes I do - but the point still stands that the game has Wizards and Fighters and they are supposed to be doing roughly equivalent things - which means a Fighter should kill whatever he's beating on in 1 or 2 rounds most of the time, just like the Wizard, Cleric and Druid can.

It doesn't matter if the game designers thought that making Casters have SoDs was balanced by them only having 5 of them a day - the designers were and are shit.

The specific problem with that maneuver is that the damage is not just pathetic but very slow - fights don't last long enough for 2d6*4 + 1d4/round to ever matter. Ever. There are no edge cases. None.

The maneuver should do enough damage to reward you for not just full attacking the hell out of your enemy - so quadruple the extra damage and add a bonus effect if you use it again. But it should drop that stupid Magic Healing DC, because that's dumb.

>>5893792
Wonder why he brings up that weak as hell 1 damage/sneak attack/round shit instead of the more obvious "save or you're fucked" shit? and circle of death is horseshit at the level you get it at.

>>5893782
I agree about the party buffs, and I'm sure that Anatomical Knowledge could be expanded, but I'm not sure what other buffs could be added in there.

>>5893782
lol That could be really cool. Maybe it helps with Anatomical Knowledfe. Or temporarily allows another player to use one of you Anatomical strikes.

At level 17, the Physician describes the weak points of the foe enough that his friends under the effects of Anatomical Knowledge can use any of the Anatomical Strikes he knows, with the same conditions of use.

Does this seem workable as another addition to Anatomical Knowledge? And how about more Anatomical Strikes?

Also, I'm thinking of changing Artery Strike so that instead of one damage for sneak attack dice rounds, it should be sneak attack dice damage per round until at least 1 hp is healed (like caltrop damage)

>>5893914
>>5893914
I like the idea behind artery strike. stick to it. I would say for him to be able to relay that info to his party it needs an extra check., or he can do that certain amount of times, or it takes longer. It needs something.

You have ideas for more?

>>5894020
It already takes a full round to impart the Anatomical Knowledge bonus and it only lasts for one encounter. I'll probably limit the number of times it can be used per day it by Int bonus.

Did you say you liked the old or new artery strike? Looking back on it, one damage per round seems like very little.

>>5894045
that sounds goof and I meant the second one.

>>5894064
good

>>5894064
I still haven't decided on 5d6 or 7d6 sneak attack yet, and I have not been able to come up with more Anatomical Strikes...

Lurking in the thread for a polished version. DnD isn't my usual thing, but I'll be playing this the next time if I can.

>>5894091
I'll have Adventuring Physician 2.0 "published" soon, just wanting to decide upon the Sneak Attack progression and add a couple more Anatomical Strikes.

>>5894097
The only bit of advice that I can voice agreement on is limits are good.

How about:
Debilitating Strike - temporary ability damage, -2 to str and con
Tiring Strike - target Fatigued

All Anatomical Strikes require a fort save or the effect does not take place. Also, Anatomical Strikes are gained on every fourth level instead of fifth, because there are two more of them. Each strike type may be used once per day except for the Scalpel Specialization strike.

>>5894097
It's gonna rock. something that I would suggest is putting it into the homebrew section of the Giants in the playground. Those guys really know their stuff. They be able to fine tune any bugs for you.
What would the anatomical strike progression be now?

>>5894085

Apologies if you've already covered some of these, just rattling off some ideas for you.


Tendons are always fun, wrists and ankles tend to get stuck in really vulnerable situations.

Head wounds bleed like a mother fucker, a precision nick could really but a damper on little things like say, eye sight.

For fun noncombat violence shenanigans, there's lots of places to stick a relatively normal vertibrate that will lead to a very slow and painful death lacking medical treatment (modern medical treatment mind you)

Most of the direct killy killy "the closest way to a mans heart is through his ribcage" type strikes can be covered by sneak attacks I suppose.

Also, if you know the layout of a skeleton, it should be a matter of a few moments for an inventive and malicious mind to come up with all of the directions limbs -shouldn't- be able to move in, and all of the directions bones where -not- designed to withstand forces from.

I think I saw you already had a stun type attack, which would cover the location of sensitive nerve clusters. (Take that for your Royal prerogative you blaggard!)

Perhaps there could be an option for debilitating wounds, less chance of a lethal strike (lower hit point damage), but the opponents Base attack bonus sliders ever inexorably lower as various minor punctures in previously seemingly unimportant muscle groups make it harder and harder to do things like fight, or move, or even breathe, WHY ZOG BODY NO WORK, STAND STILL STABBY MAN!

More:
Draining Strike - No sneak attack damage, but opponent loses 5 BAB until healed
Blinding Strike - target blinded

Also, these only work on a sneak attack, one per round, must be a full attack, and each one has a fort save.

Should only one strike be used per day? Or should that limit be removed?

>>5894149
Draining and Blinding strikes were inspired by you, by the way.

>>5894149
those are some really good ideas man. thanks for the help.
>>5894171
mabe once per encounter? I'm just not sure . they are damn powerful.

>>5894190
Yeah, and I don't want it to be "nerve strike nerve strike nerve strike nerve strike!"

I think that once per encounter is a good compromise.

>>5894179
Much obliged good sir.

Alright, while I am prettying up the text file, final votes on 5d6 or 7d6 sneak attack or other problems?

>>5894199
ooo so it's a certain type once per round. okay. I had another idea. How about you limit it to only one person per encounter that way it won't be nerve-strike-nerve-strike-nerve strike but with party members.

>>5894255
"For each creature, each anatomical strike may only be done once to it, regardless if the creature passed or failed its fortitude check. A miss does not count for this purpose. A different anatomical strike may still be performed, however."

This work?

>>5894244
I think my vote goes for 5d6. He's not built for combat and he shouldn't try to take guys by himself. He is a support character and I believe his anatomical strikes will make up for make up for any lost sneak attack damage. That or oddball it at 6d6 lol.

>>5894280
Looks good, I mean really, once your eye sockets are full of blood or your groin is screaming in agony, more blood or agony isn't going to make that much more difference.

Incidentally, I'm also for 5d sneak, for pretty much the reasons already mentioned.

5d6 sneak it is. Working on making sure that the abilities are all their new versions now, and that there are no glaring spelling or grammar errors.

>>5894280
does that mean that they can do it only once to a creature but as a party multiple times to different creatures. That would be shit ton of strikes. I hate to pull this on you. please disregard if you like but I think creatures with a certain(high most likely) intelligence, would be able to hear and where they are going to get hit next should make some kind of role. If you want it streamlined , leave this out.

Seems over powered.

>>5894318
What would you recommend for a different level 17 party buff then?

>>5894325
what does?
>>5894334
pretty much the same thing except only once per encounter for the whole party. The reason why they wouldn't do it again is because it would now be expecting it.

>>5894325
Cool constructive criticism that will be taken into account and used to better the class, bro.

>>5894360
So any of the party members may use the anatomical strikes, but only one strike may be used per encounter?

>>5894368
basically. to nerfed?

>>5894389
I'm not sure. Remember, an anatomical strike is a full round action, and may only be done if the attack could qualify as a sneak attack.

>>5894414
and it's at what level again? 17. Then I say go ahead with that and change it later if you don't like it. Another suggestion is a party can do it each AS once for creatures that qualify as beastly intelligence. Your choice.

tl;dr

play a rogue

>>5894431
I mean go ahead with your idea that is.

>>5894431
In the interest of saving time, I'll keep it like this:
"At level 17, the Physician is able to describe to his party members how to do any of the specialized Anatomical Strikes, except for Scalpel Specialization, that he knows. The same conditions of use apply; only one specific Anatomical Strike may be used per encounter, and an Anatomical Strike may only be performed when the conditions for sneak attack are met, though the party members do not gain any extra sneak attack damage."

>>5894448
>Derp. Creativity? What's that?
>>5894455
Go for it. So each one can do one per encounter is what your saying? right. Sorry I'm tired

>>5894448
How about no?

>>5894481
Yup... and I'm pretty sure that I'm mostly done. I hope.

Just as an aside, because I'm off to bed (love the class so far, keep it up)

If you haven't already, for what I consider an awesome of example of LS (lawful sociopathic) Physician, check out Walter Freeman, pioneer of the Transorbital Lobotomy.

wiki link for starter reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Freeman_%28neurologist%29

>>5894488
alright ill stay on till your finished then I need to hit the hay.

>>5894493
sweet man thanks. The class will be posted on /tg/ again at some point. Most likely at night. Peace.

>>5894481
There really isn't anything "creative" about this class. There are already classes out there that can do what this class does, and they can do it without worrying about new broken ass abilities and mechanics. Your just another one of those small-minded idiots who thinks that your class name defines your role. This class doesn't work, get over it.

>>5894522

nofunallowed.jpg

It's just a game, bro.

>>5889885
Fortune: You will have sex tomorrow.
> Save the English language on the Internet: http://www.anonta[removethis]lk.com/ICARE

>>5894522
I'm sorry, but the time has long passed for you to talk us out of this class, not that you would have been able to succeed when I started. Ah well.

Uploading to megaupload in two seconds!

>>5894522
ahhhh you just need a friend is all. I'm sure that we can find you one. I'm glad you cited references as to what classes are better suited, and which of the abilities is broken.
3/10 you made me right out a response so kudis to you.

Adventuring Physician Version 2
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EADXQHK3

>>5894568
Downloadan'. Next time, you guys should do this on IRC.

>>5894583
Might have sped things up a bit I guess, heh.

I might post this to the Order of the Stick forums, buuuut I currently do not have an account there, and I do not know how well I would be received, signing up solely to show off a homebrewed class.

>>5894602
If they don't like it post it on a more open minded forum. Or such. I'd really like to see this class perfected.

>>5894568
nicccccceeeee
It's starting to come together. It's actually improved a lot in fact. There are significantly less balancing issues. (I'm to tired to fully tell.)
>>5894602
>>5894633
Just post here or there for a day then turn it in. It's really what it's there for. That section anyway.
>>5894583
Good plan

>>5894554
Let's be honest. You're not going to listen to a word I say because I'm telling you the truth and the truth is inconvenient. You've wasted so much time trying to make this class worth a damn that you can't stand the fact that it is unnecessary and worthless.

Fact of the matter is, you could have spent a lot less time taking anyone of six classes from the core book alone and thinking of ways to alter or simply describe its abilities in ways that suit your concept. Toss in a little multiclassing and this becomes even more true. I'm going to say it one last time: the class sucks, you don't need it, and you're DM probably won't even allow it.

>>5894681
nofunallowed.jpg

It's just a game, bro.

>>5894681
Honestly? What you say does not matter, because of one simple fact: This class does not matter at all. It is very likely that there will be no fruit of my labors from this. However, that was not the goal; in this case, I have been more interested in the trip than in the destination. And you know what? It has been worth it. Sure, I could have just been a refluffed rogue, and that might even be how I end up. But that is not the point. Making the class is the point. It's an intrinsic motivation, not extrinsic. Go ahead and naysay all you want, and your logic is sound, it is just not applicable to this situation.

>>5894681
Your way may have been easier, but ours was more fun. We will include you next time. Don't get so upset little guy.Your still throwing baseless claims around. If you know we aren't going to listen to you, then why do you keep talking. To convince yourself? If that's the case our class is the least that you have to worry about. If it is so sad and pointless for us to spend so much time on a class that one person says sucks, think how sad it is that you are trolling/being hateful for so long. Who was the more productive one. Enjoy your lack of introspection. Goodnight sad man.

>>5894698
>>5894712
So guys should we set a day to do this again or just wing it?

>>5894712
If all this was simply a thought exercise, then I acknowledge that my point is invalid. However, if one were looking to play an adventuring medical professional in an actual game, then i assert that there already exist classes better suited to it than this one. No offense meant.

It warms my heart that this thread ended up like this.

>>5894751
Well, why can't I merge both a no-magic medical class and thought exercises?

>>5894747
I'm not sure when I'll be able to do this gain. My next step with this class would probably be to post to the forum which was recommended, so keep an eye out there. If I make another thread on /tg/, it'll probably have the same picture as I used for this one and my previous one.

>>5894762
I'll be on the look out. I'm going to bed now. Decent thread.

This thread is archived on suptg by the way, as The Doctor Is In 2.

>>5894762
>>5894758
Excellent it was fun working with you guys. Hope that we can do it again some time.I will keep a watchful eye out for it at GITP. Keep it real Everybody. You as well sad man.

Night /tg/!

>>5894733
I've spent maybe 10 minutes at worst on this thread, making a total of three posts not including this one. All the while doing other things. So in reality I haven't been here all that long. Besides, you sound rather defensive. What's wrong? Is what I'm saying ringing true? Has your e-penis been shattered by my argument?

>>5894830
Dude, it's not like you'll be playing with this lot, anyhow. Just give yourself a smug grin and remember that there are retards out there who want to play this class, and that they are clearly inferior to you with your hyper-evolved space brain (myself included).