They're usually people's first (monster). They trained on them, and they adjusted tactics based on them.

tl;dr familiarity.

Kobolds are basically viet cong. They are inconspicuous, sneaky, they lay the most fiendish of traps, and they are *everywhere*.

But it's not impossible to make them badass, is it? I find them to be one of my favorite monster/races.

>>6142978
And they die roughly 1000:1 against a properly trained and equipped military.

>>6143012

at least they're EVERYWHERE.

Well my thoughts on them are the same as my thoughts on Gnolls,Orcs,Lizardmen,Gobliniods you take something that's suppoed to be cr 1/2 an you turn it into a respectable enemy later on. Some of the best games I'm played in were martial campaigns were it felt a little less haphazardly thrown together than the normal dungeon crawling teams adventures. Uh, aside from that, kobold afterlife is a extremly full, series of tunnels that are greesy so that the kobolds may squeeze past each other. Also kerlimak invented the pickaxe.

Kobold society is influenced by their lawful evil alignment. They will plan and dig mines industriously, while laying cruel traps for interlopers. If they must confront an enemy, they will mass their troops for an ambush. Among the monstrous humanoids, they are known for cunning plans; unlike many, they also share those plans among the tribe. General plans and goals are common knowledge, and detailed plans are shared with all who ask, to allow them to work fruitfully for the good of the tribe. Kobolds have a natural hatred of other non-draconic creatures because of mistreatment of their race.

copypasta

Goblins were here. Kobolds are fagz

I love kobolds, and think they're cute even without the whole cutebold angle.

But I am a bit deranged, too.

Protip, Garlglittergold is a faggot, Kobolds got dicked =(

I always play kobolds. I also usually play them as girls, because there's nothing more awesome than a plucky badass chick kicking asses and taking names.

because a single lizardmen can exploit a whole group of kobolds

>>6143074
Please tell me your a woman

>>6143117
Jesus Fuck.

I play goblins but one time I played a kobold bard

ALL HAIL KING TORG!

>>6143130
I'm not. It's just that women are still considered generally weaker than men, and the whole "Stay in the goddamn kitchen" thing is still alive and well, and I'm always among the first to take the underdog's side.

I play kobolds because they're underdogs. I play girls because they're underdogs. Simple as that.

Besides, I like strong women.

>>6143187
ALL HAIL KING TORG!

>>6142978
This exactly. I have run adventurers against psionic goblins, orge-magi and sorcerous hobgoblins, and they yawn. Put one, non-advanced kobold in a level 10+ dungeon, and watch the players shit brix and go into total paranoid lockdown searching for traps.

Fuckers are scary-smart.

>>6143199

ALL HAIL KING TORG

A peasant village is terrorized by bandits and barbarians, who keep coming back and fucking shit up. Eventually they get tired about it, and send some people out there to search some mighty warriors and mercenaries to protect the village.

What they find is Seven Kobolds.

Kobolds are always trying to steal and eat babies

>>6143196
Toph as a kobold

discuss

>>6143238
Toph isn't a sneaky cunning motherfucker. She just charges head-on and beats up her enemies with brute force.

Toph is an ogre. Discuss.

>>6143196
Sorry, I'm still a "play your gender" kinda guy, save for a really touching transgender kid in one of our games.

>>6143301
Sure, I have no problem with that.

My Kobolds will be fur-covered creatures with only faintly draconian or reptilian features, and will be a race of hivemind, almost socially antlike, people. The work caste works without real care for their own lives for the benefit of the ruling caste.

>>6143226

So the town learns the valuable lesson that, if you can't outfight your enemies, you can still trap the living fuck out of your surrounding environment and kill everyone that way.

And everyone lived happily ever after!... Except the bandits!

>>6143412
I'd watch it. Or play it. Or read it.

Whatever, someone needs to do this.

The very least we require is some drawfaggotry. A new version of the poster with kobolds. And maybe some backgrounds and character sheets for the Seven.

>>6143393
that's not what a kobold is, why even call them kobolds? give them a new name as befits your creativity

>>6143242

Shit, I am now imagining Toph as my mother.

We have an "she is an ogre running joke."

Kobold Double Generals

>>6143353
/tg/ an everyone is accepted...*manly tears*

Personally Lizardmen were always my favorite followed closely by kobolds... dunno why, just lizard people I guess....

>>6143465
Bump, I forgot to remove my sage :/.. still Lizardmen > Kobolds.

>>6143465
>>6143502
... buwha? I put noko in and everything! It even bumped the thread! FUCK YOU /tg/! STOP MESSING WITH MY MIND.

>>6143516
Are you a REAL DOCTOR?

>>6143427
No, because they will have clear connections to what kobolds classically are. The same goes for all of my races, my elves will be fairly manly and burly while my dwarves will be thinkers and philosophers who walk around in colorful robes.

It's not an entire new race, it's a re-imagining of an old concept.

>>6143548
Damn right I'm a real doctor! I'm certified and everything!

>>6143551

Dorfs as thinkers with robes isn't that much of a strech.

As long as the elves aren't bodybuilder muscly and have some tie to nature and pointy ears, I don't have an issue.

Hivemind Kobolds is kinda odd, but Kobolds being kinda fast and loose with their own lives is fine.

Kobolds are the IG of fantasy. Strength in numbers, rare magic they don't really master, shitty equipment - what's not to love?

>>6143551
So basically, you want to give all the races in your game the Twilight treatment.

>>6143551
you might want to elaborate on these clear connections...

>>6143578
Yeah, well some fantasy races do work better or are more unique as they are, I generally change them less.

Races like Goblins and Kobolds are however very similar so I'm trying to make them even more different. Same goes with like halflings/kobolds and orcs/trolls/ogres.

>>6143585
That's goblins.

Or, actually, goblins are Cadians. Kobolds are the fucking Catachans. Or sometimes even Alpha Legion, if your DM is mean enough.

>>6143168
"Deekin?"

>>6143628
Other than the fact that they are just 2nd edition kobolds with a new society? Which is quite plausible if every other race has developed differently in his world.

Kobold experience: two fifth level characters had trouble killing kobolds with two and three levels in, of all things, Warrior. I didn't even use traps or large groups; small squads of two second levels with a third level "leader." Average hp, randomized stat ranges, no Swarmfighting feat, no magic equipment, barely any masterwork equipment. It was taking three and four hits to put the little bastards down.

The simple fact that they were harder to kill than anticipated spooked them worse than anything I've ever seen them react to. And the one in the sub-basement of the place they were in... when I clarified that my use of, "sneak attack," meant the class ability they nearly shit themselves, especially since he had a flanker, nearly insuring that he got sneak attack damage most of the time.

So, yeah, you want to scare your characters off of the whole, "hurf durf, kobolds, hurr, no challenge," bullshit? Give them levels. Even NPC classes like adept and warrior will work, so long as they've got more than four hp.

>>6142925
They are not cool. They never have been, and never will be.

However, taking uncool things and doing cooling things with them is the epitome of cool.

>>6143602
Yes because all re-imaginings are bad, let's stick with the same old shit instead.
>>6143628
They still are basically the scions of dragons. Except in my world dragons are dead, extinct, and the Kobold's society has to have evolved from a state where all castes were subservient to a form of inner hierarchy until one came out ahead. I won't go in to more detail (it's not entirely clear yet either) but that's basically it. They will work very differently socially compared to other characters but they will still be able to become de-facto adventurers.

>>6143699
This is when I bring in my "Quintessential Kobold" pdf.... its not a WoTC book but the stuff in it isn't as overpowered as most WoTC supplements. (The kobold caster prestiges aren't very powerful they just have useful abilities) It makes kobolds even scarier than before.... VERMIN BALLS!

>>6143680

Eh Kobolds and goblins have serious overlap.

Hell, Alara Goblins are basically Kobolds.

They come, and steal our gold, strangle our women, burn our villages and kill our cattle! Then they flee into their catacombs and tunnels, where our men give pursuit, and find themselves assailed at every turn by cruel traps and pitfalls, slaughtered like animals! No more! We have placed a 2 GP bounty on kobold heads. We expect a veritable tide of adventurers to arrive to do the knife work any day now.

>>6143801
Just imagine your party has finally made it through all the traps and round the corner to find a strange smoking cube... all of a sudden some small round balls roll out and pop open. OH SHIT SPIDERS. OH FUCK WHY ARE THEY FRENZYING!

>>6143801
Sounds interesting, do you have a link to it? The one on /rs/ has reached the ten download limit.

>>6143814
-4 strength indeed! I still don't understand the stat choices for kobolds... why don't they have low wis or something? I mean they are freaking workhorses! They should at least have average con and only -2 str... it just makes no sense for a race that spends its days mining or setting traps!

>>6143827
.... this makes me a sad panda... I just opened my RPG folder to find my 3.5 folder GONE.... I know most of it was corrupt but there was some good shit in there! This makes me kinda mad aswell.

Kobolds are cool because they're an evil underdogs.

They're incredibly weak and cowardly, but make up for that with cunning and pure nastiness.

They're also a fun exercise as a DM because player's never take them seriously, and there is a rich and cultured tradition in D&D of trying to make kobolds as threatening as possible through various techniques of neckbeardery and rat-bastardry. Ideally, you don't do this by making them high level, but by playing to their numbers and their natural strengths. For instance, you could work with their favored class (sorcerer) and have dozens of the little bastards spamming magic missile from heavy cover, or you could note their propensity for trapsmithing and go vietkong on your players' asses (for more on that note, google "tucker's kobolds").

>>6143838
They're small as fuck. Still, they're a really fucking good race, they receive a total of 3 points of AC more than a human would.

>>6143814
wouldn't her weight break the kobalds spine?

>>6143866
Probably. I'm surprised her weight hasn't broken *her* spine yet. Look at those Ha-Has.

>>6143873
Is it strange that I saw the braid first and the tits second?
What, nobody does braids where I'm from anymore.

>how do I make kobolds cool?
This is your kobold.

>>6143861
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3041336/D20-DnD-Unofficial-The-Quintessential-Kobold
This seems to be an online viewer... and you can download if you sign up to the site...

Goddamnit people stop making them tough just because you can. They're fucking vermin. Not every monster in the fucking world needs to scale upward or downward. What's the point of having different types of monsters if every one you encounter is always a properly scaled challenge?

Oh hurr durr I'm such a clever DM - my players thought they could just kill that den of kobolds because they're 5th level. Well ha-ha the kobold shaman is 12th level with a white dragon mount!

Fuck. You.

>>6143906

This is the reason I DM.

>>6143863
>kobolds going vietkong on your asses

OH GOD

>>6143906
In support of this. Kobolds' only strength should be organization, numbers and ingenuity. If they ever end up in a real fight that they don't lose immediately, something is wrong.

>>6143906
The point of kobolds is that they scale WITHOUT added levels, moron. You think you're ever going to face one in combat? They're cool because one LEVEL ONE kobold is enough to freak players out.
Actually, never mind, you probably didn't read the thread, because otherwise you'd have seen all of the posts saying don't make them high level. They're vermin. They'll also kill you DEAD.

>>6143906
>Well ha-ha the kobold shaman is 12th level with a white dragon mount!

That's not how challenge works!

>>6143940
Fair enough. Although you are supporting a troll. Still VERMIN BALLS. And draconian technology. Bagpipe flamethrowers that can be deposited in a subjects stomach. Pogo legs and hang gliders. Hang gliding kobolds that drop spiders on you from above. Does this not sound ridiculous and somehow fantastic?

“Clink. Clink. Clink. All night we heard
their damn picks and hammers, prying the
earth apart one seam at a time. At night,
we saw their eyes and heard the rustles
in the bushes, and even the creak of the
small carts they used to carry ore. Each
morning, when we went to the quarry,
our tools were missing, and their clawed
footsteps showed us where they had been.
But we left them alone, and they left us
alone, until that damn fool dwarf Hedras
decided he should stay after sunset, as a
night watchman, and drive them away.
“We found Hedras the next morning, his
beard and bits of his bones sticking out
from under a deadfall they rigged over the
quarry trail. We never did see a kobold,
and I hope I never do.”
—Darath Fellmin, Mine Manager

>>6143940

>If they ever end up in a real fight that they don't lose immediately, something is wrong.

Why are you such a racist?

>>6143906

Sorry let me correct this to assuage your butthurt and assburgers.

>Oh hurr durr I'm such a clever DM - my players thought they could just kill that den of kobolds because they're 5th level. Well ha-ha there are FIFTY BILLION OF THEM!!!

Same result, you just can't handle not having everything be a perfect (ie boring) even challenge.

I don't see why high-level kobolds should be any less common than high-level humans, frankly.

>>6143970
Because it's fun to be right.

>>6143906
tucker's kobolds is a tradition you cock snuggling faggot, learn your damn roots.

>>6143964

>Does this not sound ridiculous and somehow fantastic?

It sounds entirely ridiculous, fantastic or not.

>>6143993
Small, weak, constantly hunted, evil society. They have a high turnover rate by nature, and the high level ones you'll never see, because they're not fucking stupid enough to actually go and engage threats.

>>6143991
You still did it wrong.

>>6143993
Short lifespans and a tendency to get repeatedly exterminated by the other races? In any case, the fun in them is that they're sneaky horde enemies with mad technology. High-level kobolds sort of defeats that.

>>6143993
>>6144009
They are pretty common, they just stay out of sight for most of the time.

>>6143998

Roots known.

You're turning a fun oldschool exception into a hurr durr gayass newschool dont know when enough is enough load of horse shit.

>>6144021
>Short lifespans

Actually, if I remember correctly, kobolds have the potential of living well past a century. Although they also usually die long before that, but still.

>>6144006
It also explains how a bunch of kobolds can take villages. Near a cliff face? Hang gliders dropping spiders. Other kobolds jump your fences on their pogo legs and set your house on fire with their flame breathers.... this just makes me wonder how humans survive in this world even more than I already did...

>>6144009
>Small, weak,

Supports a lower percentage of high-level characters.

>constantly hunted, evil society

Supports a much HIGHER percentage of high-level characters.

>>6144034
Bonus feat, 4 extra skill points.
~Anything you can do, I can do better, I'm also taller and stronger than you~

>>6143906
yeah, when 3e came out they decided to do away with the whole idea of kobolds being underpowered. For two straight editions kobolds have been overpowered "ironically"

>>6144037
I'm pretty sure it would indicate an extinct species. That is generally a recipe for extermination. What it means is that kobolds don't have heroes, they have leaders. Leaders aren't 12th level fighters for Kobolds, they're Experts with skill focus: trapmaking who build fucking Jigsaw Killer traps out of lint and horseshoes.

>>6144060
Damn...... all I get is an awesome AC. So a commoner kobold against a human commoner actually has a chance.

One Quintessential Kobold PDF, on the house.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ih3drn4znwz

>>6144073
>More racial penalties than any other race.
>Light sensitivity.
>Only humanoid race NOT to speak Common.
>Less racial skill bonuses than the standard PC races.
I'm sorry, where is this overpowered 3e kobold that you speak of?

>>6144076

Those leaders are there, and they're essential to the kobold's survival, but any time you have a race with a high turn-over rate which is constantly exposed to adversity, you're eventually going to wind up with some Joe Kobold gaining five or six character levels in two weeks.

This happens with humans too, but much less often, as not ALL humans are exposed to the kinds of perils that kobolds have to deal with on a daily basis.

When dorfs fail, kobolds kill dragons

>>6144091
Depends where the commoner is from. Farmer's daughter Strangulata up there probably has Skill Focus: Butter Churning and Ample Bosom or something, whereas the Kobold "Commoner" is still a kobold, and thus spends his entire life anticipating an owlbear incursion.

>>6144076
The difference between a 10th level expert and a 10th level rogue is purely a matter of drive and inclination.

And kobolds are fucking intense.

>>6144109
It comes from other places than pure numbers and racial bonuses.

KOBOLDS ATTAAAAAAAACK!

>>6144109
A penalty to a dump stat that serves no purpose, natural armor, and faster than any normal small race. They're not that strong, but the slight improvement, used in conjunction with every shit tier DM going HURR I AM SO CLEVER, I AM USING AN ABOVE AVERAGE RACE TO MASSACRE LEVEL 1s is dumb.

>>6144109
-Racial bonus to trapsmithing
-Favored class: sorcerer

They're not "powerful" overpowered, they win by being complete and utter bastards. I.e, "overpowered" in the sense that their actual challenge rating will be much higher than their numerical/supposed challenge rating.

>>6144127
Rogues maybe, but that would imply actually going out and doing shit. For kobolds, that is a death sentence.
Maybe I'm drawing a bit too much from the Skaven here, but I'd imagine that for Kobolds, advancement is supposed to mean you don't have to be bait for traps anymore.

To kobolds, Family is everything, the tribe is everything, Kobolds beleive that if they live decent lives they will be reborn as a Kobold, If they lived poor selfish lives they will be reborn as a animal, usually a weasle so that they may serve kobolds in their second life. If they abandoned their tribe and their duty, they will be reborn as a bettle, set to be hunted and killed by kobolds.

But if a kobold dies, giving himself, body and soul for the good of his tribe, and his noble sacrifice means the saftey of his tribe?

They become born as Dragons.

>>6144120
Eh, I think dragons more be more likely to employ them or pass around the dickings.

>>6144161
Kobolds do just fine, man. Compare what kobolds get to what elves get... elves get nothing.

>>6144161

I agree with that. And it's the same for humans. Social advancement and XP advancement are two different things, but both are definitely happening.

I tried putting cutebolds in a D&D campaign, just to see how the players would react. One of them loved them, one of them was indifferent, but one of them refused to believe it was anything except a trap. Kobolds and Cutebolds in the same world is pretty much the worst thing imaginable, because they can be indistinguishable at first, especially if the kobolds are clever.

>>6144152
>strength
>serves no purpose for 1st-level warriors with slings and spears

>>6144109
>yadda yadda yadda all sorts of negatives

Maybe that's because low individual stats are not the only factor in calling something overpowered?

So how about the whole Seven Kobolds thing?

I think it sounded pretty good.

because of that thread a while ago about monster artists.
kobold artists are master trap makers, the more tiny moving parts, and the flashier the end result, the better the artist. incredible intracacies, little gold plated nibs ticked at incredible speed, tiny cogs whirring.
i forget the thread, bt i think it was archived, was he one who started the whole artist thing off by talking about wandering into a cave to find an incredible mosaic.

>>6144204
Kill them all. Let their feeble heathen god sort them out.

Dwarves mine, elves cry, humans build, but kobolds hurt people.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
level 3
Kobold, Rogue
Build: Aerialist Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 12, Dex 20, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 10, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 18 Fort: 12 Reflex: 18 Will: 13
HP: 34 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +13, Thievery +14, Perception +6, Athletics +7, Acrobatics +11, Bluff +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +2, Heal +1, History, Insight +1, Intimidate +3, Nature +1, Religion, Streetwise +3

FEATS
Level 1: Reckless Scramble
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting

POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Deft Strike
Rogue at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Rogue encounter 1: Fox's Gambit
Rogue daily 1: Handspring Assault
Rogue utility 2: Tumble
Rogue encounter 3: Flamboyant Strike

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Dagger (6), Short sword, Sling, Sling Bullets (20)
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

Kobolds have +2 Dex (meaning +1 dodge AC) +1 natural AC and +1 size AC, I like this.

I once played a Cutebold fighter, well, he was a kobold but his helmet was alittle too big daww worthy.

So, we have a race that lives in cave systems that most other races have to crawl on hands and knees to get into, can live to be 120 to 140 years old, have lots of children which develop to adulthood in six years, are level 1 by seven years, their experts and savants make traps that nearly defy physics and the whole group perpetuates a negative racial stereotype of being bumbling and uncoordinated as a kind of forced survival of the fittest(monster ecologies, Dragon magazine) so that the rest of the world thinks that they're not a threat. And people actually buy into it, treating them like weaklings?

I hate to say it but, just as planned.

>>6144096
Okay, this shit is interesting. I love kobolds, but I didn't know a fraction of this stuff.

Now if only I had a gaming group.

>>6144659
>I didn't know a fraction of this stuff.

It's not like this is a study of an actual creature here. Mongoose is a third-party publisher and thus has the freedom to take any given race/class in a wacky and interesting direction.

I also recommend Classic Monsters Revisited by Paizo. There's only like six pages on kobolds (in fact there are only like sixty pages period) but it's a great read.
>>6143967 Is copypasta'd from it, along with
>>6143863 's image.

>>6144739
>Mongoose is a third-party publisher and thus has the freedom to take any given race/class in a wacky and interesting direction.

Well they are doing a bloody good job in it.

>Leaders aren't 12th level fighters for Kobolds, they're Experts with skill focus: trapmaking who build fucking Jigsaw Killer traps out of lint and horseshoes.

We need a drawfag to draw Macguyver as a kobald, massive mullet included.

rolled 8, 9, 17 = 34

They can eat anything, squeeze through small spaces, and make traps.

>>6144171
It was from someones dorf fortress game. This dragon when around raping folks, burning viligase and glassing forests. Then this little kobold says "fuck that shit I am guna tear your throat out with my rock". And he did, and was thus the most epic of kobolds ever

>>6145144
That kobold was actually avenging his fallen village. That specific dragon killed most of its village including its parents.

>>6145167
Does that make him the Batman of Kobolds?

So there I was browsing through Quintessential Kobold when I nearly fell out of my chair. Page 80: Fortress, Temple, Monastery, Freehold.
Quintessential Kobold has a chapter on Kobold settlement making.
Kobold Fortress making.
Kobold Fortress.

>>6145188
Yes, yes it does. And here is another picture dedicated to this kobold.

>>6145210
Yes I thought you would like it. (Guy who spoke up about it first) The system works particularly well and has reasonable tricks up its sleeves. It even tells you how many traps the village should have.

http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

I always thought a cool idea would be a massive underground complex inhabited by Kobolds, and they trap unwary creatures that wander inside to let loose on future interlopers.

Imagine a party of adventurers traveling deep into an old underground ruin, perhaps an abandoned Dorf Stronghold, and falling through a trapfall only to end up in a pitch black pit with one of these?

Why do you people keep tempting me?

This is just the latest of your many dastardly plots against me, to make me think that being in a D&D game would be bloody awesome. But there's no one around here to play. (And I'd probably suck in it anyway.)

>>6145342

kobold-rape'd

>>6145342

FUCK TUCKERS KOBOLDS.

Wow, so a bunch of kobolds can ruin your shit if they're attacking from BEHIND MURDER HOLES AND ARROW LOOPS AND THEY'VE GOT EVERY INCH OF THE FUCKING DUNGEON- THEIR OWN FUCKING DUNGEON- RIGGED WITH TRAPS

SO I BET PUTTING FIVE KOBOLDS IN A MOTHERFUCKING M1A2 ABRHAMS WOULD FUCK THE PARTY UP RIGHT NICELY TOO BUT NOBODY CALLS THAT WICKED OR COOL

FUCK YOU TUCKER

AND FUCK YOUR HOMOSEXUAL KOBOLDS

>>6145342
>>6145384
Tucker's Kobolds is stupid over-hyped bullshit, and is nothing but evidence of a clever DM exploiting ass-clenchingly retarded players.

>>6145344
why would anyone keep an astral stalker in a pit?
those things are skirmishers...

>>6145393
>>6145398
>LOOKIT ME I'M EDGY

Probably slaughtered by kobolds yourself and being butthurt about it.

>>6145490
>LOL U DUN LIEK WAT I LIKE SO UR BUTTHURT ROFL XD
Nein, du, mein herr.

>>6145393
>>6145398
Because every enemy needs to charge at you head-on and be really strong and tough and that's about that.

NO TACTICS EVER

>>6145511
>BUTTHURT

>>6143226
FUND THIS.

BY ALL THE PORN IN 4CHAN, FUND THIS.

>>6143226
>>6145542
My next character will be a kobold fighter named Kambei.

How should I build him?

>>6145516

Tactics is orcs who set an ambush by the door using polearms to keep some standoff distance and for MASSIVE DAMAGE, a few light infantry for flanking and archers to cover their retreat.

Tactics consists of two 2nd level kobolds getting buff spells from their acolyte while their archers take up flanking positions to rain pain upon the party before fading into heavy cover.

It is NOT a dungeon that consists of a few passages equipped with arrow loops and murder holes and everything else that turns it into a fucking shooting gallery.

You stupid nigger.

>>6145795
>Because every enemy needs to charge at you head-on and be really strong and tough and that's about that.

>NO STRATEGY EVER

Fixed, sorry about that.

>>6145795
>It is NOT a dungeon that consists of a few passages equipped with arrow loops and murder holes and everything else that turns it into a fucking shooting gallery.

Why not? This sounds like a very viable strategy to me. When you're two feet tall, you gotta seize every advantage you can get in order to protect your home and family, right?

>>6145823

D&D combat always takes place within the small squad context... o_O

>>6145795
The constant fingers really help building your case and establish you as an opponent of debate to be taken seriously.

>>6145838

>When you're two feet tall, you gotta seize every advantage you can get in order to protect your home and family, right?

But don't come to me afterwards and tell me how AMAZINGLY CREATIVE you were for putting your kobolds in the equivalent of a fucking castle.

>>6145866

>implying that you're not a shitty troll

>>6145516
I'm sorry, when did I ever imply NO SUCH THING AS STRATEGY FULL ON CHARGES ALWAYS.

I'm saying that Tucker's Kobolds are nothing special, they're just kobolds run by a smart DM and players who were so utterly stupid it's actually funny.

>>6145795
so, despite the idiocy surrounding /tg/ at the moment (in before all the time) this guy has some pretty good points.

You outta play the different enemies differently. The arrow-hole thing is fine if you're in a home base or something and they have time to set it up (I don't think your players will like it though). Just make it make sense, read Sun Tzu's or other tactics books for good melee combat strategies.

>>6145872
>>6145891
I think Tucker's Kobolds are a bit like Tolkien: they were really groundbreaking at the time, and established everything we know about their subjects by this point.

It's not that the players in question were retarded. It's jus that they never even remotely expected kobolds to pull off any shit like that.

>>6145934
I admit, I actually did like them at first due to the newness at the time, but grew to hate it only because of the people who held it up as gospel.

>>6145917

>You outta play the different enemies differently. The arrow-hole thing is fine if you're in a home base or something and they have time to set it up (I don't think your players will like it though).

Precisely what I was driving at. If the players want to attack the enemy at their home base, the enemy is naturally going to get the home base advantage from the fortifications. The players benefit equally from it if they're attacked, after all (that's another thing, DM's have to have these orcs or kobolds come after the PLAYERS on punitive-style raids more often, to make things interesting.)

But in open-field combat or meeting engagements- like in a village being raided, say- that's where the DM's canny kobolds can really earn respect; if they prevail/survive because of their superior strategery and not because they had some default advantage.

It also does a lot to take these generally bland monsters and make them a lot more interesting.

>>6145934

That's a surprisingly accurate analogy, good call.

>>6145972
That's a surprisingly reasonable reaction, too.

What the hell, logic in my /tg/?

>>6145972
Gospel or not, it forever changed kobolds into cunning trap-laying motherfuckers.

Godlike? Hardly. But never underestimate them or think that they're not dangerous.

>>6145991
>What the hell, logic in my /tg/?
It's more likely than you think.

>>6145992

ANYBODY can pull a crossbow trigger. >_>

>>6145872

Except it WAS special for the time, and if you don't understand why then you obviously weren't actually playing then.

The idea that fortifications and strategy might have a meaningful impact on such a high-powered level-driven game honestly had not set in for the community as a whole. Kobolds were weak, adventurers were strong, that was how D&D worked. There honest to god were DMs who believed that mere kobolds COULD NOT, under any circumstance, defeat a mid-level party.

I think that there still are such DMs, in fact. And I think that they need to read Tucker's Kobolds.

Again, it's not about kobolds being awesome (though seeing the weakest monster in the game kicking ass was part of the fun), it's just about reminding people that a race of creatures just as smart as humans, twice as nasty, and four times as paranoid MIGHT ACTUALLY build the same sorts of defenses that real humans would build rather than simply throwing themselves at creature ten times their mass.

>>6145891
"FUCK TUCKER'S KOBOLDS" is not the same thing as "tucker's kobolds are nothing special".

One statement is (most absurdly) implying that things like that should ever happen in a game; the other is (quite reasonably) implying that it should be the status quo.

>>6145992
>>6145984
I think a lot of expansions over the years tried to help with this, and failed miserably because no one cared. The later Monster Manuals were really good with this too.

Hell, I still have all the old Slayers Guide To books.

You know, if there were more people on /tg/ willing to be smart online, like some people in this thread, it'd be neat to see a thread for how to run different monsters.

>>6146062

>"FUCK TUCKER'S KOBOLDS" is not the same thing as "tucker's kobolds are nothing special".

>One statement is (most absurdly) implying that things like that should ever happen in a game;

... yes, that is exactly what I was implying.

Wait, no, it wasn't, as anybody with an IQ over 70 is aware.

>>6146028

Okay, I can understand that.

>Again, it's not about kobolds being awesome

That's what I wish more people would grasp.

>>6145984

Those defenses can be part of what defines a race, however.

For instance, I don't think that goblins would ever build fortifications that dastardly, they would just wall off the front of their dungeon with a few logs. The goblinboss might send out a few to distract the enemy, then close the gates behind them and start shooting.

>>6142925
more or less its this

Kobolds are the frist level cannon fodder and everyone pretty much hates them so after a while the player began to feel sorry for them leading to the Cutebolds, while the DMs though it would be funny if some low level fodder would somehow be able to kick high level PCs asses via traps and ambushes which lead the the GARbolds

so as result people think they're both cute and kick ass

>>6146143
Yeah, this guy's on to the right kind of thing.

To me, Orcs are more Rank-and-File kind of soldiers, like the LoTR Orcs. Goblins are lighter, less sophisticated, more numerous. Gnolls are eat-your-face berserkers, etc.

Of course, that's really dumbed down from what you can do when you focus on them as DM. But it's good to give them all a different flavor.

Whenever I DM, my monsters always act in a way that will optimise their chances of killing the party, deliberately avoiding the meatwall characters to take out weaker party members first.

I powergame every monster because that way my players can't prevail, but equally can't complain because I just have to show them that the CR of any encounter is suitable for their level. If they talk about strategies I make sure the monsters act in a way which stops them from pulling it off, so they never get a chance to outsmart them.

>>6146184

sure is metagame in here

>>6146194
It's the only way to play.

>>6143226
..I can actually Imagine Kikuchiyo as a Kobold.
A bit too easily actually.

>>6146206

That's wrong.

It's also true. :(

>>6146143

That sounds more like orcs.

Goblins would try something like that but get bored halfway through construction, or if they found/stole such a complex they wouldn't run it properly, would get sloppy or cocky, would give away their locations/spoil the ambush with macabre off-key singing, etc.

>>6142919
> Old. I already read this on the far superior http://www.anertalk.com/ (aner = anon) last night.
Not sure if I understand you correctly. Please explain.

Well i'm DM i make sure the kobolds lay traps and use gorilla tactics they also talk a lot with each other and use scouts and spies so they can also put up a fight, i also make them use a lot of long range combat from advantage points well the pcs are under stress from traps or other environmental hazards and situations my kobolds have taken advantage of

Slight thread hijack

I want to DM a Kobold campaign, where the players are the tribe champions in their fields, and start out on the run from enemies in their homelands, just having settled down in an ancient dwarven crypt. Dungeon plannan, undead removan, tribe expandan and such. Followed by, perhaps, questing for a dragon egg, defending their tribe from adventurers and basically create a wonderful little society.

Does anyone have any suggestions or cool quests/encounters (I'm pretty inexperienced as a DM, would love some 'tried and true'-stuff.)? A pal of mine is moving to an apartment pretty close to mine in a month or two, which gives me ample time to prepare.

Picture related, they'll be designing their dungeon themselves as the game progress, I intend on printing this on an A3 or maybe even A2.

One of my DMs did the most dickish thing I could possibly imagine with kobolds. He gave them one unifying hero type that was out for the benefit of kobolds everywhere. He had a stat line that was similar to our own and a cruddy set of equipment that would get your typical adventurer laughed out of town, had it been an equivalent set.

We were in the middle of trying to negotiate with some king or another for a larger reward for the investigation of why oh why a bunch of towns and cities were completely vanishing off of the face of the earth. Cue the entrance of this creature, looking rather impressive for a kobold. He had apparently calmly walked up to the front gates of the city, hands held up, and requested to meet with the king for negotiations, as we found out when our rogue Gather Information'd it out of the guards.

Kobold looks over everyone there, then says "I'll wait. Please continue." Takes his helmet off, puts it on the ground, and uses it as a chair. We carry on, get our reward boosted, and start to leave. That's when we hear the kobold say "I want to bring my family into this city to live. We're tired of mining. We're tired of dying in cold and wet and dark and misery. We want to live here and work here."

He's laughed out of the audience chamber by the king. The kobold takes this with disappointment and walks out with us, politely responding to us when we spoke to him. And it's quickly forgotten as we head out on our merry little way to rock the quest as hardcore as we can manage. Every time a day passed, the DM would roll some dice and write some stuff down. We thought nothing of it. We were busy with other things.

A week after that encounter, we hear that the capital city that we just left vanished from the face of the earth. A survivor described something that sounded suspiciously similar to an orchestrated cave-in to our party's dwarven cleric.

The sons of bitches mined underneath the city and collapsed it.

>>6146407
Okay, that sounds kind of totally awesome. It'd be great to hear what you have planned out so far.

However, you also should run stuff past your players and make sure they're okay with this. You're probably going to restrict their choices and not everyone likes that (i.e, Race will be Kobold, probably won't see any Kobold Paladins, etc).

Also remember Kobold's have traditional been kind of almost tied into descendants of dragons. They have a higher than usual number of Sorcerers per capital than other races. If you want to explore that aspect you might want to look into some of the dragonblooded feats and stuff.

The other thing I would keep in mind is that everyone hates Kobolds. Not a metagame thing, everyone in the D&D universe hates Kobolds. So their enemies are literally everyone else, dwarves/gnomes for tunnel space, adventures who want to kill them because hey, they're Kobolds, etc.

It'd be great to hear what you've got so far!

>>6146446

Fucking awesome.

meh, I don't like kobolds, there's far too much /tg/ faggotry associated with them

>>6143427
Just for the record, kobolds are in fact older than D&D and the word does not necessarily mean 'tiny trap-happy dragon-man'.

I've been playing a kobold monk in my friend's campaign. He has since become the team mascot and party leader. In the last game we had, he jumped onto a wyvern's back and killed it Kratos-style.

One of my favorite campaigns I ever ran was low level, about 4 or 5, and there were 3-4 Level 2 Expert Kobolds robbing a store near the PCs. Thinking, "Hey, we're big and bad! Let's grapple the little shits!" they start grapples with all the Kobolds. The dice then take a turn for a "FUCK YOU" and the entire party of humans, elves, and dorfs gets pinned by 2nd level kobolds. Was good times.

>>6146549
> I don't like it because other people like it.

>>6143502

EXACTLY. Lizardmen for the frickin' win.

My party recently pissed off the kobold mafia. Any suggestions on how to repay them, /tg/?

"OH GOD, THEY'RE IN MY HAIR, THEY'RE IN MY HAIR"

>>6146614
>>Dark Talon Lizardmen FTW.

Fixed.

>>6146610
It's pretty funny to hear /tg/ say that, since they rage over everything remotely popular and pride themselves on being nerd hipsters.

>>6146407
Damn you Kobold campaign man, I have to abandon my laptop. When I return I shall ask you more about this and you will tell me.

>6146537
The planned stuff includes the securing of the tomb - several undead will be discovered as they dig their way deeper and deeper into the ground. This will culminate when they find some old and forgotten epic city that have caved in, with tons of awesome stuff they'll discover (including fuckhueg statues, perhaps of dragonborn in full combat gear).

Then there's several goblin and gnoll tribes in the area. Oh, and a human city. When they grow tired of that stuff I'm thinking there will be a huge dragon flying through the sky high above, and the village elder sending the party out to find this dragon, and offer it loyalty, riches and servitude (and beg for protection of course).

I've talked a bit about it, and I'll be asking them to join "the kobold campaign I've talked on and off about for quite a while now".

I didn't know they had a unusual number of sorcerers, and I suspect no one wants to play a paladin. But if they want to it could be pulled off since I'm going to be using 4ED(only available system, one player have all the important books, and I don't think anyone in our usual group have played 3.5ED). I'll of course make some adjustments (very low point-buy or -3STR -2CON or something)

I know everyone will hate them, but I intend to make their presence frowned upon - but allowed - at certain black markets. Before (if) they decide to go on an adventure away from the tribe other species hating they being in the area will be the main plot hooks/combat encounters.

>>6146703

Now, where can I learn more about that or download the sourcebook or something? Because that sounds cool.

>>6146800

"Everyone hates them" is too simple. Part of the fun of something like this is seeing the world from a kobold's point of view, even if you aren't acting like a typical kobold. Give this some thought.

For instance, humans or dwarves will expect them to be easily cowed by simple intimidation, and will be genuinely shocked if your heroic kobolds show a bit of backbone. Orcs will all but ignore them, expecting them to be frightened away by the orc's very presence. Goblins who have dealt with kobolds before will hate the shit out of them; goblins who have never met a kobold before will just laugh at how funny looking they are. Gnomes will regard them with a stiff, righteous loathing; not mater how the PCs try to make peace the gnomes will think it's all a scheme, or a scheme within a scheme.

These are all just ideas, I don't know how any of the above actually view kobolds in your setting. The point is that some races (especially the eviler ones) WILL be willing to deal with kobold; they'll just expect them to act like evil, craven little bastards to be bullied or broken.

Because they make blue glass and ceramics, wear resistant metals, aid in the the production of B12 coenzymes, and make scariest bombs.... oh wait...

>>6146407
Where the hell do you live. I want in! I would love playing the crazy tinkerer!

>>6146991
I havn't really thought about the relationship between them and some of the races, since I'm still not very well-read about kobolds, or any D&D race really (this'll be my first real D&D campaign). I'll read "The Quintessential Kobold" and hopefully it'll tell me about their customs and how they relate to other species. Any other suggestions for reading material?

>>6147035
Stockholm, Sweden. Since it's my first time DMing I'll probably fail horribly. So I'd rather play with my old buddies who can shrug it off and start something new when/if it bombs.

But if it won't turn to crap I'll try to at least put the stories, campaign materials and arts ( picture related, I'm a drawfag and also a goliath bard) up on suptg.

>>6147132
I half-heartedly suggested Classic Monsters Revisited (by Paizo Publishing) earlier, though their take on kobolds is probably a bit more over-the-top than Mongoose's, and thus less workable as a PC race.

Also, the real draw of that book is the ADHD goblins, slasher-flick bugbears, and Deliverance ogres. .

>>6147132
>>6146991
>>6146800
>>4e

WOAH! That's the kind of thing you need to point out man. First, forget everything I said, cause that's all 3.5e stuff. You said you weren't really read up on the races, so don't let me color your opinions of them.

4e is like a blank slate. There no fluff with the book so you can make up whatever you want. The whole maybe-could-be-connected-to-dragons was a 3.5e thing. You can drop it entirely, or if you like it you could literally make them descendants. If you want Kobold Paladins go for it (but don't, Paladins aren't good in 4e).

Again, Tabla Rasa, blank slate, you should make up whatever is going to fit your campaign the best and make it the most fun.

I think with 4e you should focus more on combat. They already have a lot of different Kobold builds, are you going to have those show up as allies? Will your players get their own Minions? That kind of thing.

Also if you do send an adventuring party after them use the NPC rules and not the PC ones. The PC rules weren't made for opponents.

Really, you're going to have to change the NPC Kobolds to PC Kobolds too. Have you thought of how you're going to do that? You could give them the "Shift as a Minor Action" as a Racial at Will Power, but you'd still need to work out other stuff.

>>6147206
Fellow swefag here. Looks like you have some awesome stuff brewing

>>6147314
>Really, you're going to have to change the NPC Kobolds to PC Kobolds too. Have you thought of how you're going to do that?
He could just, y'know, look in the back of the Monster Manual, since they have a PC writeup for kobolds there and all.

>>6147314
>but don't, Paladins aren't good in 4e
Divine Power came out, paladins are fine now.

>>6147366
Sorry, burned all my 4e books so I'm working from memory here.

"First, there was the spiked pit. Then the acid sprayer tucked into a niche in the tunnel wall. And the scything blade trap made from our missing pickaxes. And that was before we even saw the first kobold. and he just laughed."

>>6147314
I really like the old fluff I've heard so far, and I figure if I mostly use that as a starting point I'll have much more old fluff to tie in to the campaign. Another player in our usual group is starting a campaign (4e too) with a homemade world, and his campaign will start in a few weeks. I'll try to match the fluff he'll create, though his fluff will probably focus much more on the usual playable races. I did tell you that it'd be played in 4e, though as a side-note.

I figure I'll make lots and lots of encounters beforehand so that I can easily set something up quickly should need arise, though we've always had close to no combat in our group (we grew up playing oWoD).

I want the players to be able to play any class, and as 6147366 said they're "playable", but as with all 4e races there are no negative stat modifiers, which will force me to modify it a bit - or just play with very low point-buys. I think they actually have the "shift as minor", though I'm not 100% sure.

>>6147344
Tackar tackar.

>>6147649
Kobolds in 4e are awesome and some people consider them a bit OP as a player race since they can shift as a minor action.

One of my DMs had a large group of kobolds suddenly appear, overwhelm us with numbers, grapple us straight to the ground, and tie us up. So we're tied around a tree, bitterly hating everything that's happened to us thus far, watching as the kobolds talk amongst themselves. Then the DM asked if anyone in the group could speak draconic.

The wizard gets taken aside, because he's the only one that bothered to take it. Five minutes of the rest of the group planning later, the wizard returns and explains that the kobolds are taking the party as pets.

Apparently, turnabout is fair play.

>>6146217

"What do you think of kobolds? You think they're saints? Hah! They're foxy beasts! They say, "We've got no gold, we've no loot. We've got nothing!" But they have! They have everything! Dig under the floors! Or search the dens! You'll find plenty! Gold, books, wands, crafts! Look in the caves, they've got hidden warehouses! They pose as saints but are full of lies! If they smell a battle, they hunt the defeated! They're nothing but stingy, greedy, blubbering, foxy, and mean! God damn it all! But then who made them such beasts? You did! You adventurers did it! You burn their villages! Destroy their nests! Steal their gold! Force them to labour! Take their loot! And kill them if they resist! So what should kobolds do? "

>>6147649
"Shift as Minor" was the thing I remembered about Kobolds from the Fell Shadowkeep or whatever the intro adventure was called.

You can use a low stat buy if you want but if there is a PC Kobold setup somewhere I assume that would work too.

If you guys are both running a 4e campaign concurrently, I think you have two different options. First, you can try to make the fluff match up the best you can between the games. That would let players get used to things and be consistent. However, since 4e doesn't have standard fluff you can make up something completely different too. That would probably catch players off-guard and make them more alert. You should do whatever will work best, since it depends on what kind of campaign you're running.

I like the idea of a Black Market, but did you plan on having it based outside the Kobold community? You should have some way for them to get starting equipment, so Kobold shops in the starting area might work (or you could just have them start with it, but once they start getting gold they'll have to spend it somewhere). You also don't have to make Gnolls or etc. antithetic to them, you could have the traditionally evil races tolerate each other for collective EVUL. That will get you players places to rest if there are Goblin or Gnoll encampments. You could even have each different location sell different stuff, etc.

It seems like you have the establishing stuff down, and designing their own dungeon sound very interesting especially for intellectual players.do you plan on having them defend while people invade/how do you plan to work the dungeon delving?

>>6147314
>4e is like a blank slate. There no fluff with the book so you can make up whatever you want.

Jesus cock-gobbling christ I suddenly hate you so much.

>>6147728
yeah, but I really don't want them to be on par with a lvl1 party of normal adventurers. I figure if you'd give them a basic statline of 8,8,8,8,8,8 and give them their usual 22p to buy stats for, they'll have to waste 12 points if they want to get all their stats up to 10. I figure that, in conjunction with +2 to any stat except strength could work?

On a side-note, quintessential kobold is awesome and informative so far:
"Although as a people kobolds seem ideally suited
to stealthy activities, psychologically kobolds fi nd
that they lack the patience for such work. More
importantly, skulking in the shadows does little
to assuage their wounded racial pride. Few selfrespecting
kobolds will willingly make a living as a
scavenger or thief."

>>6147784
Quintessential is probably on of the best straight Kobold resources. There's also the old Slayer's Guide to Kobolds.

"Kobold warriors are deceptive in appearance. Mighty warriors all too readily dismissive their stature and primitive weaponry. A Kobold's real strength lies in its fiendish cunning and the overwhelming number of its comrades."

Also has a lot of stuff like the Caste system, breaking it up into clans and tribes and etc. Really though, take or leave whatever you like.

Tucker's kobolds

Shit you beat me to it..oldfag dm here...Tucker's crew was legendary.

>>6147784

I like the idea (as suggested in the pathfinder line) that they WILL do these lowly sorts of things with little hesitation, it just makes them even more angry. They channel their spite into their trapmaking, and that pride and bitterness overcomes their cowardice in driving them into conflict.

Hence why a typical kobold den is like a rage-fueled dynamo of pain.

Kobolds are ANGRY.

>>6147776
since he'll be designing a continent, I'll use the fluff he'll use for usual player characters, and use his continent for this campaign.

I was thinking that the black market was a safe zone, where anyone can go to buy stuff, as long as there's no fighting involved (sort of like that one city in fallout 1). Of course I'll use non-combat encounters/skill challenges to determine how much they'll have to pay for stuff, and also give them some exp on the side. I figure their relation to the other monster races in the area will be determined based on how they behave in the black market.

Trading with/diplomacy with other tribes will also be something I'll try out.

The players will be given a set amount of squares their tribe can dig out every session, and some kind of reoccuring quest will be to make traps (also something they'll be able to do once each session perhaps?). If they annoy the wrong crowd they'll have to defend their tribe, using the very area they themselves have designed as a battlefield.

Another good 3.5 book, of course, is the Races of the Dragon, which has a chapter detailing kobolds, and sections at the end detailing some 3.5 feats that you could adapt for 4e, if you so cared.

It also details kobold/other race relations. Generally, it's chilly with anyone without dragon blood, and even then it's usually a one way street with the kobolds giving an amount of reverence and getting manipulated in return. The two races they rather don't like specificly are halflings (for being too fae-like and trickster-ish, but they can find common ground in trapmaking) and dwarves (for allying with gnomes and competing for space, but they have a lot in common in work ethics and group mentality). The one race they are incapable of really dealing with without murder is gnomes, for religious reasons and general past dislike.

It also details some draconic gods; Io, a dragon god of neutrality, is specifically cited as a possible kobold god and an alternative towards the more racially-biased Kurtulmak.

>>6147448
From the same book.

Kobolds have an unhealthy fascination with traps and
deadly devices of all kinds: blades, spikes, spears, darts,
fire jets, crushing stones, and acid baths are all popular
ways for them to defend their homes against bigger and
stronger creatures. Although all kobolds are adept at
trapmaking, the elders are usually the ones asked to
build the deepest pits or the deadliest poison needletraps.
Different clans tend to use different styles of devices, and
especially successful trap designs are passed down in
family lines.
Traps themselves are often combined with ambushes,
as no kobold wants to fight an unbloodied foe. Deadfalls,
rolling logs or boulders that knock opponents prone, and
bear traps that hold a foe in place are the typical traps used
in quick ambushes. The last of these is always combined
with ranged weapons—while the bear trap holds a leg,
kobold slingers finish off the prey.
With more time to prepare, kobolds set up pits with
stakes, hidden nets, and oil-slicked fire zones at ambush
sites. The traps around a matriarch’s nesting ground tend
to be layered with poison needles protecting spear traps,
pit traps at the end of corridors that release poison gas,
falling stones that push foes into spike pits, and so on.

>>6147757

My DM had a single kobold be the greatest bane of our group that we've ever had. We apparently destroyed his village at some point while he was out on a hunting expedition. A couple of sessions later, we started finding notes tucked away in our packs, with a single ration missing. "Thanks." That's all it said. We started posting a night watch to see if we could figure out who was stealing from us, which led to our nights being haunted by skittering noises and barking laughs from damned near everywhere.

And then we started finding signs of treasure being looted before we got to it. So we started double-timing it when we entered dungeons.

And then we started finding that tavern stays were getting an extra person on our tabs. Same with nights at the inn and visits to shops. We started keeping track of how much money was getting added onto our usual expenses and realized that this shit was getting ridiculously expensive.

The true terror only showed up when shit started getting given to us from unknown sources. Jewels that we KNEW had just been stolen by the thieves' guild. The sword of the captain of the guard. Food that was somehow still warm, despite the fact that we were fifty miles from civilization. A goddamn golden flagon that had the personal stamp of the dwarven king, which we eventually learned was handcrafted by his great-great-great grandfather.

Every time we were asked to make Spot or Listen checks, we shuddered in fear of what new thing was suddenly going to drop into our laps. We had attracted the attention of not just an angry, skilled kobold.

We had attracted the attention of an angry, skilled rogue.

>>6147917

Also, Races of the Dragon covers kobold merchants. They use illusions and bluff skills to disguise their true race, not out of shame, but out of discretion. They can end up dominating a cities economy over time without anyone realizing they trade with a kobold tribe.

Classic Monsters Revisited: good flavor sourcebook, or BEST flavor sourcebook?

Aww Dammit, Quintessential Kobold has reached its download maximum!

>>6147939
>>6147971
These guys beat me to mentioning Race of Dragons, which is also a good resource.

>>6147917
You might be better off relying on skill checks than skill challenges for Diplomacy and the like. I know they errata'd the system (multiple times now, I think) but I remember the original wasn't very good. Also, skill checks are faster, and if traps play a major part of your game leaving skill challenges just for them makes them more unique.

If you do go with generally low power or low cost builds, make sure your players are okay with that.

The black market idea seems good, but do you plan on having multiple locations for it or only one? Depending on how much the players are going to travel, either could be appropriate.

The mechanics for the dungeon digging should like they might work but what are you physically going to do? If they can dig X squares are you going to give them a grid a literally let them draw the tunnel? Depending on the tools used that might require a lot of erasing. Plus you'd need to get a 3D perspective of it somehow. From the once-a-session sound of it are you going to make it a reward along with EXP?

But whatever you do with your campaign, don't turn it into an "IM SAD" fest.

Don't forgot that kobolds are bona-fide evil. They are, however, evil out of necessity as much as evil out of choice, but don't turn non-kobold characters into one-dimensional villians that hate kobolds for no reason; the kobold race does a lot of shit that has earned their hatred, and the people that go after the PC characters should be played as honest-to-god good people, trying to do what they think is the best thing.

The challenge for the players could then be both dealing with the external threats, and also dealing with elements of their own tribe that still carry the kobold racial butthurt in dealing with other races; if the players act too submissive when dealing with other races in hopes to end the constant tit-for-tat fighting, there should be a very powerful, negative reaction from their own tribemembers who would see the whole affair as a massive embarrassment.

One of the Kobold characters I play is an unassuming, skittish looking guy with no armour, simple clothing, and a single knife as his only weapon.

Except he's classed as a ninja with the invisible blade PrC, so the little shit flickers around the battlefield handing out truckloads of d6's. If he needs to run, he can jump like a goddamn flea and scramble up walls like they're nothing - and at higher levels he can phase clear through them.

Most fun character I've ever played.

>>6148022
""Ogres love other vicious games, too, like “Hatch-a-Catch” (in which they hurl rusty hatchets back and forth to each other, and the first to shed a finger or other bit loses), and “Man-Dueling.” In the last, two ogres pick up living humanoids by the ankles and swing them at each other. When the “man-swords” are reduced to pulpy messes, the ogres discard them for fresh ones.""

""The harshest punishment for a gnoll is exile. A gnoll prefers death to loneliness, and one who is cast from his society frequently seeks companionship from other humanoids—usually orcs or trolls. When a gnoll is exiled, his head is shaved and scarred, showing to all who meet him that he was cast out of his band. Gnolls reserve this punishment for only the most horrific of crimes, which in gnoll society include freeing slaves, betraying the band to non-gnolls, worshiping a deity not allied with Lamashtu, or forcing a fellow gnoll to perform hard labor.
If a gnoll cannot find camaraderie among other races, he walks. He continues walking in as straight a line as possible until hunger, exhaustion, exposure, or predation finally ends his pitiful life. This practice, known as Garrurwarr (“holy walk of death”) allows the gnoll to regain some amount of respect from his kind. If the Garrurwarr walker comes across another gnoll, and after a brief exchange the encountered gnoll is convinced of the legitimacy of the Garrurwarr, he might kill the walker and end his punishment.""

I also have made a quasi-powerful order of Druids, Specialist wizards, and smattering of other classes. That are like a military arm of PETA or Greenpeace. Except their flagship "Animal" is The Kobold. The party is good and this group is good but they are at odds.

>>6148265
>>6148022
Holy hell! I don't think I've ever seen Classic Monsters revisited, can you point me in the right direction?

>>6142920
> lol i alredy red dat at anоntalk.com last nite
That's a tough one.

Moral dilemmas, just what i want in my first quest at level one up to the eventual retirement/death of my character.

>>6148323

Hate moral dilemma, eh? I've got a game you really should play, then.

>>6148312
I'm a fandboy, so I actually paid ten bucks or so for the pdf on paizo.com. I'm sure you could find it on RS though; it's a small file. More:

""Bugbears are hunters by nature, although instead of
seeking food or glory, they only desire terror. Nothing but
fear slakes this need, and every bugbear spends its life a
slave to the hunger. Their addiction is our terror, as they
prowl the shadows every night hunting man, woman, and
child. They are stealthy and delight in giving away their
presence to a victim slowly—at first in creaks or thumps
in the night their prey can easily dismiss as the wind, next
in an open window the person doesn’t remember leaving
ajar. The bugbear engages in a slow-building dance of
innocuous noises and clues to raise the victim’s hackles
and draw out the scent of the victim’s rising terror.
Bugbears care nothing for order, have no conception
of ethics or morals, and discard family and traditions
as mere obstacles to the hunt. What few trappings of
civilization they carry are actually little more than
mementos of particularly terror-filled nights of hunting,
which they long to remember again and again. They take
ears as trophies, but only when the night’s sport proved
particularly satisfying. On dismal nights when no prey is
at hand, bugbears hold their necklaces of ears close and do
their best to summon the memory of succulent fear-scent
gifted to them by those dying victims.""

>>6148179
I just downloaded Race of dragons, I'll check it out as soon as I'm done with quintessential kobold.

We tried using skill challenges in our last (and so far only) 4e campaign, it was kind of wonky, though it's non-combat EXP, which is something I'm guessing the players'll need. Do you have a link the (latest) errata? I think I'll heed your advice, leaving skill challenges for the trapmaking.

I doubt anyone will be angry with it being low power, my group have never really cared about maxed stats before, and I'll just go a bit easy on them if I notice that encounters are getting too much for them to handle (but I'd rather keep the encounters a bit lower level but with a bigger exp reward, as I don't think I'll be handing out extremely powerful magical items).

I suppose having a few later on wouldn't hurt, but in the beginning I havn't thought about having several of them (until people started suggesting that there are different shops available to them in different monster tribes - though risky).

About the digging: I plan on it being sort of like the old dwarf fortress, one Z-level, though it's more tilted (10-20° slope), since it'll just be a hassle otherwise. The players can discuss amongst themselves where they want to dig each session, recieve some token EXP (50 or so? just for some added interest) and of course the traps they build they get to set up, decide where their kinsmen will sleep and such.

Oh, and I had this idea about the the players having to catch some dire rats, taming them to enable tiny cavalry for the tribe.

>>6148265

Wouldn't it make more sense for freeing slaves he doesn't own?

>>6148363
Is that basically what it is? A bit of fluff for some of the older, more traditional monsters?

>>6148344

>>6148363

Looks like a fluff-writer has been reading a bit too much about serial killer's and rapist's "rituals". D:

>>6148376

Gnolls are pretty collective in CMR (pack-mind). Releasing gnoll slaves is a crime against the race as a whole.

There's a longer list of gnoll crimes there (with entries such as " Crime: regicide. Punishment: ascend to leadership of band") which was probably my favorite part of that section.

>>6148417

Ah, so there is an implied everyone in the band owns everything, including slaves, so don't be a puss and deny everyone else their fun just because you are touched by the slave's "morals".

>>6148375

Kobolds riding Dire Rats does sound kind of cool.

And you know what's great about non-combat EXP? the DM is in control of it. If somebody does something awesome you can give them 100 EXP or so, you don't need a mechanic to tell you to do it.

As long as you're ability to convey and model the dungeon so that players understand it I think you'll be fine. If you know about dwarf fortress I'll assume you know what you're doing.

One thing you need to worry about with low power characters is the length of the combat as well. The ratio of HP/damage was increased in 4e so that non-minion monsters survive longer. With weaker characters doing even less damage it might be troublesome. if it does cause a problem, I've heard of 4e DMs that said they cut all the normal monster HP in half.

>>6148417
>>" Crime: regicide. Punishment: ascend to leadership of band"

Okay, that is way too fucking awesome. I have to get this.

>>6148409
Basically.

When doing the Pathfinder RPG, paizo realized they had to re-fluff all the OGL monsters because WoTC's flavor text wasn't open. Someone looked at vanilla bugbear stat block, saw an incredibly beefy monster with a racial bonus to move silently and the Scent ability, and thought "slasher-flick boogyman".

The results on that one were pretty awesome.

>>6148383
Prettymuch. There's an occasional, very brief bits of crunch (such as an ogre feat that makes you better with improvised weapons, or variant 'stillborn' bugbears with a special connection to death), but it's almost all fluff. The whole "Revisited" series is like that, which I love because it makes them system-neutral.

>>6148433
Yes, even if it the slave was "yours", it's still a reprehensible thing to do.

I love the shit out of that because it's admitting that an evil races can still have rigid morals of their own.

>>6148447
I'll be sure to do that, should the need arise!

Thanks to everyone for all the help, I'll be sure to take all the information and advice into consideration!

So, I was reading this and thinking about how many of a kobold's defenses one could undermine by the old trick of running a herd of sheep through the dungeon (to spring traps and confuse defenders).

What if you reversed that, though?

A knightly order is raiding a deep and ancient trap-filled dungeon, so they start by 'running' a gang of captured kobolds through it. They bring them to the entrance in cages, then shoot arrows at them until they flee inside. Whenever a room is considered 'cleared' the knights advance to goad the demihumans further.

This is how your party gets started.

>>6148643
How is that a reversal?

Is the dungeon run by sheep?

http://thef0ng.com/completeshift/D&D/The_Quintessential_Kobold.pdf

speaking of Pathfinder, when does the beastiary come out?

>>6148822
Preorders are supposed to arrive later this month, according to the site. I don't know much else (I'm waiting for second print runs on this shit).

>>6148822
Also, there's kind of a preview thing up now as a free download.
http://paizo.com/store/paizoExclusives/v5748btpy88x4

I'm kind of digging the fairy dragon. Also, lolnostalgia @ the set XP awards per monster.

>>6149115

>fairy dragon

Wait until the hyperactive wanna-be-cute kender player gets ahold of it.

>>6148485

The section on bugbears was possibly the most creepy, terrifying thing I have EVER READ. I slept with the light on that night.

>>6149431

I love the racial feats that let them creep people out with hide or move silently checks, by intentionally making soft, creepy sounds (such that the listener thinks its their imagination, but isn't sure). That rocks.

>>6149431
You thought that section was terrifying?

I'm sorry, but I'd rather be stalked and killed by a bugbear than raped by an ogre's fat lumpy trout-sized cock while another ogre plays the banjo.

>>6149818

The other ogre would get distracted by the party's bard when he initiates Dueling Banjos.

I'm running a campaign in the FR setting, and I'm having my players explore a temple on top of an earthmote which is infested with kobolds. My only dilemma is that I don't have a logical, racially consistent means for them to get on and off of the earthmote. Any suggestions?

>>6150069

first of all, what the hell is an earthmote

>>6150127
it's a static (and rarely non-static) floating piece of land

>>6150177

Flying Transport at a cost, lets say a Dragon or a Gyphon or Roc trained by some guy.

A teleportation Scroll

a teleportation spell...

they are teleported by a demon

>>6146407
Wow, this sounds really nice, I don't think I'd be able to run something like this with the group I have. From the other posts you've made it seems like you've got it all thought out well, though I'm hoping you'll tell us how it goes with your group. Wishing I was in Sweeden now just so I could be in your game, haha.

If you need any more Kobold material just ask, I've got a whole stash of Kobold lore because I love the little buggers.