Well, do you have any idea what sort of game you'd be interested in? There are lots of different types.

If you've played lots of vidya, what are your favorite types of games?

Also, you could just download some books and look through them, or you could try to find a group to teach you the basics and try playing with them some.

So what you're trying to say is, you're stuck on whether 3E or 4E is better?

I don't believe D&D is your kind of thing. Enjoy your hand.

>>6608271

Honestly, I've always been a fan of the fantasy. Always loved knights and monsters. I was told that Baldur's Gate 2 was kinda like what I was looking for, and loved the customization at the beginning for the character, but wanted something more along the lines of dice rolling in the game.

>>6608308
Yeah, then I think DnD is a good game to start with. Personally, I have no issues with either 3.5 or 4th edition, so you could just go with whatever's more available.

Original D&D: Very loose rules. Not recommended for people who are unfamiliar with RPGs. A clone of the game is avaliable here: http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/?page_id=18

Basic D&D: Cleaned up OD&D. Clone available here: http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html

Advanced D&D: More complex variation on OD&D.

AD&D 2nd Edition: Like AD&D, but cleaned up a bit. Uses a single value for attacks instead of attack matrices. Modules for it are bad.

D&D 3rd Edition: Probably most realistic of the editions. If you have played KOTOR, you will be somewhat familiar with the system.

D&D 4th: Unmitigated crap. Virtually nothing like any previous edition.

Castles & Crusades: A fusion of AD&D and D&D 3e. Easier to use than either. Demo available here: http://www.trolllord.com/cnc/ccqs.html

>>6608322

Alright thanks. Any sort of guide to kind of get me started into how the game works? I don't mind looking like a noob, but not knowing what the fuck is going on would kind of suck.

Basic D&D is a good starting point, because that is what it was designed for: new players.

>>6608355
Well, if you come on IRC (irc.thisisnotatrueending.org) then I can explain the ~BASICS OF ROLEPLAYING~ for basically all games to you if you want. Look for Slashie.

Basics of Roleplaying:

One person is the GM. He controls the world and everything in it, and can alter to rules to fit new situations.

Everyone else is a player. They each control a single characters.

They have adventures.

>>6608350

Damn, thanks. Now I kinda know whats going on. I did like KOTOR, so 3rd edition doesn't seem to bad to me.

Important: You do not *need* any rules. The Game Master (also called the Dungeon Master or referee) can use his best judgment when a new situation arises.

>>6608372

Actually, I'm heading out for a bit in like 15-20 minutes, so I might not have enough time. If we could later though that'd be awesome.

>>6608423
Mang, I'll be around. I have nothing to do tonight since my game was cancelled this week. HOORAY.

Also important: RPGs are NOT about telling stories. They are GAMES, like Monopoly or Super Mario.

However, sometimes, after a game, you will come away with a cool story to tell.

>>6608438
but
but
the only way to win is to create a good story

More Basics:

In all editions of D&D, characters have these 3 things:

1. A race, like elf or human.

2. A class, like Fighter or Wizard

3. "Ability scores", like Strength and Intelligence

>>6608431

Sweet. Also, there wouldn't happen to be an online game to play, would there? I don't really know any D&D players around me. I'm pretty sure I could find some if I looked around, but It'd be cool if I could start out online to get a feel for the game.

>>6608452
Actually, the way to win is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Telling a good story is just a perk.

>>6608464
In that IRC channel people often run games, and they're usually quite open to new players. You could ask around once you come in.

I'm not sure if there are any 3.5 games going on right now, but I'm sure somebody could easily run one.

>>6608421
>>6608438
>>6608454

Thanks for the basics guys. Helped me out a bit. Kinda get the general feel for it now. Just gotta get to know how all the stats work now.

D&D uses 6 ability scores:

Strength: This effect how much you can carry and how good you are in melee combat.

Constitution: How tough you are. Effects your HP and resisting poisons.

Dexterity: This effects dodging and ranged combat.

Intelligence: Effects your skills and wizardly magic.

Wisdom: Willpower and awareness. Effects priestly magic.

Charisma: How suave and good looking you are.

>>6608438
I disagree, but do think that RPGs are not just about storytelling. It sounds like you and I want some different things out of our games.

>>6608516

In most of the MMOs and RPGs I have played, I usually go with a ranger/hunter. Always loved the idea of using a bow. I would probably need dexterity for that, right? Also, how do rangers measure up in terms of usefulness in D&D? I'd rather pick something useful if I could, so even if I don't know what's going on, I can at least be a credit to everyone who's playing.

If you're new to the game, do not try OD&D or AD&D.

3.5e/3e
Pros:
-Huge amount of resources available, both in official content, third party content, and homebrew.
-Extremely flexible, if you like having an extreme variety of options to customize your world with.
-If you want to buy your books, you can do so on the cheap, (I recommend torrenting, however)

Cons:
-No longer a supported system.
-Without supplements/houseruling, spellcasters outpace melee users dramatically. (Tome of Battle somewhat fixes this, inb4 Book of Weaboo Fightan Majik)
-Lots of specific rules make the game a bit tedious to learn, and have some confusing rules.

4e
Pros:
-Currently supported edition by Wizards of the Coast, which produces the game.
-Highly streamlined
-All characters have a useful role in the party
-Easy to pick up and learn.

Cons:
-Lacks the flavor and variety of third edition.
-Combat takes forever once you get into higher levels
-Classes, while streamlined and all useful, are very homogeneous and arguably boring.
-Poor background information, but if you like being creative that could be conceived as a pro.

Pathfinder (Bring on the trollan)
Pros:
-Backwards compatible with 3e
-Streamlines some flaws in the game
Cons:
-While melee has been improved, spellcasters are still very, very strong
-Prepare to be trolled for talking about it
-Relatively new, so the "update" process between Pathfinder and 3e isn't as easy as Paizo makes it seem, although it is still reliable.

I've played all three, and it really depends on what kind of group you want. If you want a relatively easy, boardgame experience, go with 4e. If you'd prefer more depth, go with Pathfinder and torrent the 3e stuff, pick and choose as you grow more experienced as a DM.

Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions are a good way to learn the game if you don't want to actually do it the old fashioned way (reading the books). All the common classes are represented, and you will soon grasp the basics of DnD 3.5 ed's game mechanics and character development.

In 3rd edition:

Your race effects you ability scores (raising or lowering them) and may give you special abilities.

Your class gives you:

1. Special abilities, like spellcasting

2.Your "base attack bonus" (BAB); the most important value for when you attack.

3. Your "saves". These are Fortitude (based on Constitution), Reflex (based on Dexterity), and Willpower (based on Wisdom). These allow you to avoid bad things, like falling into pit traps and resisting mind control.

4. Your skills. You get a number of skill points that you give to the skills of your choice. If you put them into "cross class skills" (things like Arcana for a Fighter), it costs twice as much.

>>6608569
The only exception is that NWN won't teach you much about which classes are truly good and which ones make a balanced or unbalanced game.

>>6608552

Basically what I'm trying to say

3e: Roleplaying. If you like thinking and aren't a virgin, this is where its at.
4e: Rollplaying. If you like WoW, you'll love this.

>>6608551
Rangers in 3rd Editions have a knowledge of nature, can get an animal companion, and lesser nature magic.

Generally, they either use bows or dual wield.

>>6608552

Thanks, I have a better grasp on the different editions now.

>>6608578

I said a few posts back that I wouldn't mind being a bow using/ranger kinda class. What would be the best race for that? Don't know much about the races, but elf would probably be good at using bows right?

>>6608601
Except the warlock. They took certain...liberties...with that one.

>>6608612

Would nature magic have minor healing and buffs thrown in, or is it strictly offensive?

>>6608624
You don't have to play any particular race to be a ranger. But, if you want to be an elf:

* +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
* Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
* Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
* Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
* Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.
* +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
* Favored Class: Wizard. A multiclass elf’s wizard class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.

>>6608624
Not necessarily! The most mechanically effective archer is unanimously agreed to be a Cleric with the Zen Archery feat, but Clerics or any full casters are generally the most mechanically effective anything.

Race doesn't matter quite as much unless you're going for one stat above all others or a certain set of racial substitution levels, but Human is never a bad choice.

>>6608645
Mostly healing and buffs, really.

>>6608645
First level ranger spells:

* Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
* Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
* Calm Animals: Calms (2d4 + level) HD of animals.
* Charm Animal: Makes one animal your friend.
* Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
* Detect Animals or Plants: Detects kinds of animals or plants.
* Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
* Detect Snares and Pits: Reveals natural or primitive traps.
* Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
* Entangle: Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius circle.
* Hide from Animals: Animals can’t perceive one subject/level.
* Jump: Subject gets bonus on Jump checks.
* Longstrider: Increases your speed.
* Magic Fang: One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 on attack and damage rolls.
* Pass without Trace: One subject/level leaves no tracks.
* Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
* Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
* Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals.
* Summon Nature’s Ally I: Calls animal to fight for you.

hell, why haven't we shown him this?

Check out http://www.d20srd.org/, man.

>>6608665

Cool, being able to buff is a plus for me.

>>6608671

Sorry, but I don't know much about the wording for D&D quite yet. 2d4 + level, what does the d stand for?
>>6608671

>>6608711
d_ is the kind of die you're rolling, for example 2d4 is "roll two four-sided dice".

>>6608705

Well damn, this looks helpful as shit. Going to have to give this a good read over later.

In D&D, magic does not work on the more common "MP" system.

Instead, it works on the "Vancian" system: Spells are memorized, then forgotten as soon as they are cast. As such, casting a lower level spell will not effect your ability to cast a higher level one, and vice versa.

This encourages you to use all of your spells, rather than just high level ones.

>>6608711
d<number> stands for "<number>-sided dice".

>>6608718

Gotcha. So how many different dice types are there? You know, like 4 sided, 20 sided, stuff like that.

>>6608743
2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 20, 100

>>6608743
d4
d6
d8
d10
d12
d20
d100 (also called d%)

>>6608749
Also 30. I don't know what the hell uses that, though.

And the 100s are usually two ten sided dice, and you roll one for each digit.

>>6608728

So, wouldn't that make a spell caster that uses all of there spells useless? Or can you get the spells you've used back at some point?

>>6608749
Also note that despite often seeing d100 as a die type, no-one uses an actual 100-sided die. Instead, you use two d10s, one of which is the 10s part of your result and the other the 1s.

>>6608759
A caster's spells refresh every day.

>>6608759
You get them back every day, after you've re-memorized them (or, in the case of clerics, prayed for them).

>>6608749
>>6608753
>>6608757

Damn, 100? Seems like a lot. What would you need that for exactly?

>>6608782
Percentage chances as opposed to just "d20+relevant stats, have to get higher than x"

>>6608766
>>6608775

Oh...Yeah, I was kinda wondering how you would make a 100 sided dice. That makes a lot more sense.

>>6608782
Mostly special cases, like the Dungeon Master rolling to randomly generate a dungeon.

Slashy, I feel compelled to congratulate you despite my normal dislike. This is the first time I've seen you posting anything remotely helpful. You answered questions politely and efficiently with a notable absence of trolling. I hope this is a continued trend.

>>6608778
>>6608780

Oh ok. So is there a set number of spells you can memorize, or can you memorize as many as you have available to you?

>>6608782
Some games have "percentile" systems, where you have a score out of 100 that you need to roll over or under. For example, if you have a Drive skill in Unknown Armies of 30, you need to roll 30 or under on your d100 to succeed.

>>6608813
Just wait 'til another elf thread pops up, then I'll be back to my nasty ole self.

>>6608817
Depends.

Preparation-style casters have a spell list, either every spell available to their class at their level or a book containing spells known. They essentially fill empty slots with any combination of the spells available.

Spontaneous casters have a set number of spells known, but can use spell slots to cast anything they know of that level.

>>6608827

Oh, so some rolls are to see if you succeed or fail? Guess that makes sense for traps and opening locked doors.

>>6608817
Depending on your level you can memorize a specific number of spells per day. The higher the level, the more spells you can memorize.

>>6608850
Yeah, exactly. The dice add an element of chance to some actions. For example, if you just automatically won fights all the time, that would be pretty boring.

>>6608850
Nearly all rolls are that way. Everything from opening a door to jumping out of the way to seeing if you can resist a spell.

>>6608843

So how do you know if you're a preperation or spontaneous caster? Does it depend on the GM or do you get to pick?

>>6608817

There are three things at play here.

1. Spell List: This is the list of all spells any possible wizard/sorcerer/cleric/whatever can get. All spells are here.

2. Spells known. The arcane classes don't know every spell on the list. They can gain new spells by leveling up or writing new spells in their spellbooks. Note that divine casters know all spells on their spell list.

3. Spells memorized: Each character can only cast a certain number of spells per day. Each morning, the spellcaster chooses, or memorizes, a certain number of spells from the spells known. By casting a spell memorized, you cannot use it again that day unless you memorized it multiple times.

When a roll is increased or decrease, it is called a "modifier". A positive modifier is called a "bonus", and a negative modifier is called a "penalty".

>>6608877
Of the core classes, only Sorcerers are spontaneous.

>>6608867
>>6608876

Damn, that seems fun as hell. Makes it seem actually difficult to play if you're not lucky with your rolls. I'm looking forward to actually playing.

>>6608877
The class you pick. Sorceror is the main spontaneous class, while Wizards and Clerics prepare their spells.

A caster doesn't just get a number of spells per day, he gets a number of spells per day by spell level.

>>6608878

Oh, I kinda get it. So if after you wake up and memorize your spells, then use them all, you're pretty messed up until the next day, right?

>>6608893
It is fun! Gaming, at least for me, is really rewarding when you get REALLY lucky and manage to do something awesome against all odds (like in my last game when I hung onto the lance I'd stuck through the roof of a car while it was thrown and STAYED ON... WHILE I WAS ON FIRE.) or when you are clever and pull off something awesome with your brains and good planning.

Then again, I also find roleplaying a character well and making a good story rewarding. There's lots of stuff that's appealing about gaming.

>>6608923

Do note that it's only from levels 1-3 that you have any chance of using every single one of your spells in an average in-game day.

>>6608908

So you can have a couple of level 1 spells, then level 2 spells, and so on? Must take a while to decide which spells to memorize at higher levels, huh? By the way, how high do the levels usually go to?

>>6608893

You'll find that as you get into the hobby most gamers have particular neuroses or superstitions about their dice. They very from person to person, and can range from the slightly quirky to downright bizarre. Lucky dice, unlucky dice, rolling out the bad numbers, not allowing anyone else near their set of dice, etc.

>>6608942
Technically, there's no limit, but beyond 20 different rules are used to determine character progression.

Spell levels are 0 through 9, with your average full caster starting with a handful of 0 and 1, and not getting 9th until at least 17.

>>6608940

Oh, so you usually don't use all your spells up, huh. So you gotta strategize how to use your spells then? Like deciding to use a powerful spell on this monster, or save it for something more powerful later on?

An example 3rd level wizard might have these spells memorized:

0th Level: Resistance, Detect Poison, Ghost Sound, Message

1st Level: Grease, Charm Person, Sleep

2nd Level: Detect Thoughts

>>6608961

So 9th would be the big offensive spells, or the strongest healing spells, right?

>>6608962
In a sense. The biggest imbalance in the system is that spells can do nearly anything, so you may not need to even worry.

>>6608981

9th-Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells

* Freedom: Releases creature from imprisonment.
* Imprisonment: Entombs subject beneath the earth.
* Mage’s Disjunction: Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.
* Prismatic Sphere: As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides.
* Gate X: Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
* Refuge M: Alters item to transport its possessor to you.
* Summon Monster IX: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
* Teleportation Circle M: Circle teleports any creature inside to designated spot.
* Foresight: “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger.
* Dominate Monster: As dominate person, but any creature.
* Hold Monster, Mass: As hold monster, but all within 30 ft.
* Power Word Kill: Kills one creature with 100 hp or less.
* Crushing Hand: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or crushes your foes.
* Meteor Swarm: Four exploding spheres each deal 6d6 fire damage.
* Shades: As shadow conjuration, but up to 8th level and 80% real.
* Weird: As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft.
* Astral Projection M: Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
* Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
* Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
* Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level.
* Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
* Shapechange F: Transforms you into any creature, and change forms once per round.
* Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds.
* Wish X: As limited wish, but with fewer limits.

>>6608965

How big exactly are dungeons? From that list, it looks like you would run out pretty soon. Maybe my idea of a dungeon is a bit too large.

>>6608981
Yes, though straight damage and healing with spells is probably the least effective route when nearly every spell level has a number of options that can end fights instantly.

>>6609003
You may not always be in a dungeon! The average number of encounters per session that early on is usually 1 or 2.

>>6609002

Man, that time stop spell seems pretty over powered...

>>6608989

So something like a level 1 spells at a higher level could do a lot of damage? Like a magic missile or something? ( Not sure where I heard that from, but I know that's one of the starter spells ).

>>6609003
Actual dungeons can be any size from a couple rooms, to entire networks of caverns. But despite the name, not all adventures in DnD take place in dungeons.

>>6609032
•It is.

•Yes. Spells scale with caster level, usually with a maximum duration and effect.

>>6609026

Ok, so you usually don't even need all the spells you memorize at the beginning levels, and when you start to do more encounters later on, you'll already have more spells available to use anyway.

>>6609003

Well, that and low-level wizards are actually quite weak. At higher levels, though, wizards are ludicrously overpowered. At epic levels, there are two kinds of players: spellcasters and spellcasters' bitches. However, the Book of Nine Swords, a supplement to D&D 3.5, started to correct that problem.

>>6609038

Honestly, I'm still a bit unsure as to how the game play in D&D works. What are some of the other things besides dungeons you can do? Like going into towns to buy things? That's all I can really think of at the moment...

>>6609063
They key word is 'started'. Keep in mind, any class with a sufficient amount of optimization can break the game in any number of ways (Trip monkeys and uberchargers say hi).

The biggest issue is that for a full caster, doing so is pathetically easy.

>>6609048

At low levels, you'll probably use all your spells. At high levels, you almost certainly won't.

>>6609063

Are spell casters generally unbalanced in most D&D editions, or just 3 and 3.5?

>>6609070
Interaction and plot is everything. Entire sessions can be spent just talking, with barely a dice rolled.

>>6609070
Well, sure. Your character can do anything a person could do.

Think of it like this-- you're in control of a character in a novel, so any action a character in a novel could try, your PC could try.

>>6609084
Just 3/.5, really. Don't let all this deter you or your friends from playing one, though--anything a caster can do for himself, he can do for his group.

>>6609088
>>6609094

Ok, so the storyline could be much more epic and deep then just "Kill the goblins in the mine shaft", right?

>>6609108
If it wasn't, the hobby would've died to video games ages ago.

>>6609070

Pretty much anything. Try to think of D&D, and other role-playing games, as a simulator rather than a game. A lot of things aren't explicitly covered by the rules, but that doesn't stop you from doing them. You can do anything a fantasy character could do: Build a kindom, rule an army, forge a sword, lay waste to your enemies, engage in political intrigue. At higher levels, you can do even more things, like plunder Hell or become a god.

>>6609003
A dungeon can be a few rooms or the size of New Jersey. it's up to your DM.

>>6609088
Pay no attention to this anon. "Plot" has no meaning in an RPG.

>>6609108
Oh, yeah, definitely. You can play games that range from "kill the rats in the cellar" to "take over the universe".

>>6609094
anywhere from rigging up a crude trap with a box, stick and string, to pissing in the bartender's face, to dancing in town for change, to getting a job as a butcher's apprentice. but to be fair, OP, you might not want to do all, or any of these. It's just an example.

>>6609103

Alright cool. They're usually over powered later in the game though, right? Not from the start, fucking shit up.

To get your ability scores, roll 4d6 and ignore the lowest die. Do this six more times. Then, assign those values to your ability scores however you please.

>>6609135

Right. Most of the time, while noticeable, it won't be too bad, especially for a beginning group. It only starts getting annoying when the guy playing a Wizard is a giant powergaming faggot.

>>6609135
Balance starts in the hands of melee, evens out around 6th level, then it's (nearly) all caster from then on.

Again, there are so many options that any concept can be played effectively with the right combination of classes and feats.

>>6609131
>>6609115
>>6609122

Sweet. So you can basically do just about anything you want while playing.

>>6609159

Oh, so it's not just you get 100 points and you can shovel them out into whatever you want? Thought that was how it worked.

>>6609173
Well, you can TRY to do whatever you want, heh. There are rules in the game to say what you can and cannot do, and the person in charge, the GM, dictates what actions will succeed or what you roll for certain things.

Just because my peasant character wants to fly doesn't mean he can do it. (Although, a lot of the time you CAN work up your way to doing whatever goal you have...)

>>6609173
Yep! Keep in mind that there are many, many alternate sourcebooks full of additional classes, feats, spells and items. If you like, I can upload everything you could conceivably need.

>>6609189
The whole rolling for your stats thing is specifically DnD. There's also a point-buy system for DnD that's more similar to what you're talking about.

Other games often do just give you a set number of points and you get to choose where you put them.

>>6609135

However, while this is true in the standard game, a lot of people have taken steps to correct this imbalance. The aforementioned Book of Nine Swords is one such step, but my favorite is probably the series of internet articles by a fellow named K on the Wizards of the Coast forums mid-2006. I wouldn't advise reading it now, but once you've got a solid grasp of the game I strongly recommend you check out these links:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527458/Races_of_War
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527098/The_Dungeonomicon
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527634/Tome_of_Necromancy

>>6609161

So as long as you start out with some other people that don't know much about the game, then there won't be to much of that, right? I don't see someone like me, who hasn't played before, being able to pick out the best feats and spells that can make his character the best out there.

>>6609173
yeah dude, kinda. it depends on your DM. The scope of the game, from killing rats, to taking over the universe, depends on how the DM wants to do his game. some shitty DMs will not let you do things you want, and that can be no fun at times, but you are technically able to do anything in the game that a person might conceivably do. this does not mean stupid actions like murdering people in the middle of town are good ideas, because things tend to have consequences.

check out Riddle of Steel

>>6609201

That'd be amazing if you could. If it's to much of an inconvenience though, then it's fine, but that'd help me out a hell of a lot.

If you are DMing, be sure to not force a plot on the game. This is called "railroading", and is frowned upon.

An RPG is like this: The players try to accomplish something. The DM puts obstacles in their way to make it more interesting.

this is a fun thread. its exciting to see people enthusiastic about the game helping an eager newcomer learn about it.

>>6609216
Don't worry about being the best possible character, especially for your first game. Your GM and the other players can help you decide which things to pick, but not everyone views it like a videogame, where you have no reason NOT to optimize your character perfectly. The numbers on your character sheet are supposed to represent your character's personality, strengths, weaknesses, past experience, et cetera. So if you want to play someone who isn't necessarily the most optimized character because you want to play someone who isn't almost completely designed around being competent at a couple of things, you need to know that's okay too.

But that's not the same as making a character who sucks at everything-- that's different, and don't let people fool you into thinking they're the same thing.

>>6609231
Sir, that game is a clusterfuck and you know it. We're talking about D&D here.

>>6609220

So your entire game could get messed up if you get unlucky and your DM is a giant faggot? Does that usually happen or is it just every once in a while you get unlucky?

>>6609249
Yes and yes. It totally ruins the game. But you can usually tell beforehand how awful the GM is going to be, and you can avoid those games.

It happens a lot. That's why you need to look for a good group with good GMs and good players-- which is sometimes hard to find.

>>6609241

These threads are pretty much the only things that break fa/tg/uys out of their jaded cocoons. It reminds us of when we first started; the joy of exploration, the excitement, the confusion. It re-ignites our passion for our hobby, which unfortunately so often lies dormant beneath layers of edition-wars, trolling, and skub. I love these threads.

>>6609249
Getting unlucky won't "mess up the game". Remember, losing is half the fun.

Yes, having a dick DM will screw up the game, but, then again, so will dick players.

>>6609241

Man, I never came to this board before now, and everyone is fucking awesome. This is one of my favorite boards now.

>>6609268

Oh I don't mind dying. I expect to do a lot of that. Any tips or tricks to figure out if a DM is a douche before getting to far into a game? Don't want to get in a good ways before figuring out what a dick the guy is, you know?

>>6609269
The feeling, I assure you, will pass.

Remember, if you want to have fun:

-If your character dies, make a new one.

-If you lose a magic sword, steal it back.

-Leave no cave unexplored.

-Leave no hoard unlooted.

Do these things, and you will enjoy yourself.

>>6609268
I think he meant being unlucky as in having a GM who turns out to suck.

And yeah, bad players can fuck up a game badly too. But at least players you can kick out of a game if there's a particular troublemaker. If you have a shitty GM, you can do the best you can to have fun with the good players, but in my experience inevitably the game dies because the GM is either railroading horribly or doesn't actually have anything for the PCs to do.

>>6609282
Ask, ask, ask. You need to ask other players who have played in this person's games before about them, because if the players say, "Oh, he LOVES furry tentacle rape in his games" then you'll know not to play with this person.

>>6609282
"You guys have to play as Half-Orcs."

>>6609235
I'll upload it in chunks, there's quite a lot so stick around for some time if possible as this will take a while.

>>6609283

Way to rain on our parade, Fanbro. Are we not allowed a thread where everyone is polite and attentive? Where the discourse is informative and charming? Why, sir, do you feel compelled to disillusion our fine new friend?

>>6609246

So it'll be okay if I fuck up a couple of feats and skills, as long as I don't totally mess everything up? That's pretty relieving. Was kinda freaked out about it for a second. Also, the thing I had to do kinda fell through, so I have the rest of the night to figure stuff out. Mind reposting the irc? I would look, but this thread is pretty big now and would take a bit.

>>6609282
-If the DM is a bad person all around, he is probably a bad DM as well.

-Play with people you know, if possible,

-Avoid "storygamers". These are people who feel like they need to force a plot onto the game.

-Being a DM is harder than being a player; it takes more commitment.

>>6609313

Just don't sweat it. A lot of people never worry about optimizing their characters; always remember that your character is an entity with a past, a future, emotions, dreams, hopes, and aspirations, not just a set of numbers.

The problem for DM's is getting a balance right.

Sure, it's nice for players to have some freedom, but unless the DM's prepared to run a game where the players could literally do ANYTHING, then that sort of game can fall down really fast if the players go somewhere entirely new and unexpected and the DM has no idea how to react.

It's the DM's job to place the players in scenes to respond to, and it's a difficult balance to maintain between railroading and letting players do whatever they please.

>>6609303
"Female adventurers are unrealistic."

>>6609312
He's kind of a douchebag, if you haven't noticed.

>>6609313
Yeah, it's totally fine! You're not going to suck just because you took a feat that you thought was going to be useful and actually isn't. Players might be assholes and tease you about it (in my experience, this tends to happen in DnD games even if the same players are fine with non-optimized characters in other games... oh well), but ignore them.

The irc is irc.thisisnotatrueending.org

>>6609332
On the flip side, you can always get a new one if he dies. Don't sweat is either way.

>>6609282
a good meter stick would to be to try and work alternate ways around the problems he brings up. don't do this too often, or you're seen as a prick. but like, if he sends orcs after you, try and bribe them or something. if he says 'they don't listen and attack' you might be dealing with a railroader. if he entertains the idea, even if you botch a diplomacy roll or something, causing the orcs to attack you anyway, he's probably not a bad dm. its that sort of out of the box thinking that railroading (see also: terrible) DMs hate and try and stop. but be subtle with it, you might get flagged for being a problem and start resentment.

one of my local DMs does nothing but railroad to pitched encounter in a generic landscape with a large number of combatants, and its really not fun. He's such a prick to the point where he won't let my friend's character leave the battlefield, despite being able to become invisible. (assassins aren't too great in large scale encounters)

I don't play in their game for that reason.

>>6609341
A very competent DM run a "do anything" game, but it requires more world-planning on his part.

>>6609344

I'd noticed, yes. Like you so often are, unfortunately. It hurts all the more now, Slashy, that I know what you're capable of. Although, perhaps I am too harsh. It's possible that I only see you in trolling mode.

>>6609316

>-Avoid "storygamers". These are people who feel like they need to force a plot onto the game.

Different strokes for different folks. You might enjoy mindless hackan and slashan. Other people prefer to build up characters and a story.

Of course, those people probably don't play DnD.

>>6609369
O, BUT IF YOU COULD SEE THE GENTLE SOUL THAT LURKS BENEATH THE MONSTROUS EXTERIOR......

If you are not prepared to go toe-to-toe with this, you are not cut out to play D&D.

>>6609375
Its not about what happens, its about *how* it happens. "Story" isn't the opposite of "hack n' slash". I could play a game of political intrigue, but as long as I didn't try to make it a "story", it would still be a good, non-storygame.

>>6609363

Yup. A DM literally requires to have the whole world sketched out before unleashing some players on it. If there's a simple solution to a problem, roleplayers can always be relied upon to find the most convoluted, insane method of resolving it, perhaps involving a jaunt between planes when the answer was just down the road at the local library.

>>6609382

But, but you never show your gentle side. Sometimes I... I just feel so alone and afraid and I don't know what to do. When did it happen, Slashy? When did we lose that spark? You're just - just so distant these days.

>>6609406

Ah, my mistake. Still, I'd definitely prepared to bend the more gamey side of the rules for a better story. But that's a matter for another thread and another time.

>>6609406
It's the difference between "challenge" and "plot". If the DM says "you kill the dragon BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE A BETTER STORY", then it's a storygame. If I planned out how to kill the dragon and defeated it without "plot powers", then it would not be.

>>6609344

So, the thing is I've never actually used irc before. Figured I could just throw the link into the url and go, but apparently that's not the case. Any chance I could get a quick run down on how to use irc?

The Core Mechanic

Whenever you attempt an action that has some chance of failure, you roll a twenty-sided die (d20). To determine if your character succeeds at a task you do this:

* Roll a d20.
* Add any relevant modifiers.
* Compare the result to a target number.

If the result equals or exceeds the target number, your character succeeds. If the result is lower than the target number, you fail.
Dice

Dice rolls are described with expressions such as “3d4+3,” which means “roll three four-sided dice and add 3” (resulting in a number between 6 and 15). The first number tells you how many dice to roll (adding the results together). The number immediately after the “d” tells you the type of die to use. Any number after that indicates a quantity that is added or subtracted from the result.
d%

Percentile dice work a little differently. You generate a number between 1 and 100 by rolling two different ten-sided dice. One (designated before you roll) is the tens digit. The other is the ones digit. Two 0s represent 100.
Modifiers

A modifier is any bonus or penalty applying to a die roll. A positive modifier is a bonus, and a negative modifier is a penalty.
Stacking

In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

>>6609439
for now throw this link in your browser. its an irc applet to the suptg channel. in the future you may want to download an irc client like mirc or hydrairc or somehting.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/chat.html

>>6609383

Honestly, this is one of the things I was looking forward to when thinking about starting. Fighting awesome looking monsters in epic tales of adventure.

>>6609439
Heheh, well, first you need a client to run it in... You could easily just use mibbit.com if you want, or mIRC, or Trillian, or Pidgin... Do you have a chat client already?

>>6609466
Someone said the java applet wasn't working today, though. I dunno if that's still true, as I doubt LL would actually do anything about it

>>6609463

So, how do you know what the target number is? Does the DM make it up, or is it dependent on your stats?

CAMPAIGN SETTINGS!

Here's the first bunch of things I uploaded. They're books that detail pre-made worlds for adventures.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?2kmytzkgwky
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zoiqxtmzzud
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jlz2tgmngmf
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nmzdynyzwz2

>>6609496
yeah, generally DM tells you what to roll, then you roll and tell him what you rolled, then he says if you pass or fail.

>>6609512

Sweet. So these would be like the worlds the DM's would make up, right?

>>6609532
Yes, exactly.

Next is the core three books and their sequels.

>>6609496
It's made up based on guidelines. Generally 20 is the best an untrained normal human could do under normal circumstances, ~27 is what a brilliant specialist with high quality tools and an assistant could accomplish. 30-35 is hero of great repute, 40 hero of legend, 50 is second only to the gods... As a general guideline. Circumstantial circumstances may be different.

>>6609596

I see. So how do you determine what the sucess cut off is? Like you have to roll higher then a 10 to do this or that, how do you get the number 10?

>>6609626
DM determines. Easy stuff is 10-15, harder stuff like picking a basic lock or beating down a weakish door is around 20, trying to lasso a galloping unicorn by the horn may be even harder. The core books explain this stuff in greater detail, so you can learn more there.

>>6609626
Simpler actions are a d20+a base stat. Skilled actions are d20+ranks in a skill (Such as swimming, climbing, hiding)+base stat associated with that skill.

But you don't add base stats in their entirety. 10 in one of the 6 basic stats is a modifier of 0, and every 2 points above and below 10 is +1 to anything involving that stat.

Speaking of the core books, here they are!

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=25cc68ff601c62ead956df2962098fcbbdba8e876f8f02650ac99885da44e881

>>6609626

Success is equal to or greater than. If the DC, or difficulty check, is 10, than if I roll a 10 or higher on a twenty-sided die I will have passed. This is not, mind you, including modifiers.

These are what the modifiers from your abilities are.

>>6609644
>>6609663
>>6609673

So I'm a bit confused about what modifiers are. What are they exactly?

>>6609723
Remember the base 6 stats? Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma? >>6609673 details what the bonus to things involving that stat is for your score in it.

>>6609626
Say that the target number (called a Difficulty Class or DC) was 20. You are trying to climb a steep wall.

You roll 1d20, and add +1 because you have 12 Dexterity, and +5 because you have 5 ranks in the Climb skill.

You roll 14, so your total is 20. This meets the DC, so you succeed.

And here's the "Complete" series of books! These detail feats, classes and spells for certain archetypes of characters, such as a mage or a warrior.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=25cc68ff601c62ead956df2962098fcbbdba8e876f8f0265f88875faa4c6c51e

>>6609723
A modifier is anything that you add to or subtract from a roll.

The "ability modifier" is the amount that having a particular ability score adds to any roll based on it.

>>6609743
>>6609747
>>6609764

Ok, I get it now. So it depends on what your skills and feats are then, right?

>>6609655
>>6609763

Damn, thanks! This is gonna help me out a hell of a lot.

Keeping on with the race books! These detail the mindset and culture of playable races, and give character options based on this.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=25cc68ff601c62ead956df2962098fcbb1d1bcc0fb7811024df0d6082f1c2cd0

>>6609815
Make sure you understand the core game before you dip into the sourcebooks (that is, any other book, like the "Complete" books).

The have alot of options, but tend towards power-creep.

>>6609815
No problem! I'll be uploading two more chunks of books, both fairly large sized. One is everything about monsters, the other is just miscellaneous stuff you can use for character building.

>>6609824

Quick question, does race have anything to do with interactions between different races? Don't know where, but I read that humans hate half-elfs or something like that.

>>6609828

Alright, I'll focus on the core before getting any deeper.

Off-hand, if a target is hit by a touch attack while flat-footed, what AC is the attacker trying to hit? Whatever's lowest? Or just 10?

>>6609852
That really all depends on setting. Your DM could decide on anything from half-elves being their own separate culture to not existing at all.

http://dnd3rd.sourceforge.net/

Check out this character builder. It will guide you through the process.

>>6609853
Touch AC as normal, except minus dexterity for being flat-footed.

>>6609880

Sweet, this'll make things a bit easier. Thanks!

>>6609852
In most settings, elves and dwarves dislike each other, half elves are seen as suspicious by elves and humans, and no one really likes orcs.

>>6609924

So what other races are there? All I can think of is gnomes at the moment.

>>6609948
Halflings, Orc, Half-Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, Gnolls, etc.

From outside core, I like Warforged.

>>6609980

Can you play as goblins and gnolls? That'd be pretty cool.

>>6609990
You can play as anything that has stats, even if there is no explicit section on it as a character.

>>6609990
theres rules for it, but you'd need to ask your dm.

>>6610000

Damn that's awesome.

Combat works roughly like this:

Everyone makes Dexterity checks (a check is a roll with the d20). The total is called your "initiative".

Everyone acts in order of their initiative. Every individual turn put together is called a "round", and lasts 6 seconds of in-game time.

On your turn, you can, in general, make 1 "standard" action (like an attack) and 1 "move" action (usually moving up to your speed).

To attack, get within range and roll 1d20 + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (depending on whether this is a melee or ranged attack) + your Base Attack Bonus (determined by your level and class).

If the total equal or exceed the "Armor Class" (AC) of you target, you hit, and deal the listed damage of your weapon. Armor Class is 10 + your Dexterity modifier + the AC bonus of whatever armor you are wearing.

>>6610018

So no matter what class you are, dexterity is important?

>>6610039
That and Constitution to an extent, yes.

Speaking of monsters, here they are, stats for everything from lovecraftian abominations to a sentient pile of socks.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=25cc68ff601c62ead956df2962098fcbbdba8e876f8f0265e04f31aacf568dab

>>6610039
Every ability score is useful to every class, but some less so than others.

For example:
Every needs to be able to carry things (Strength).

Every needs HP (Constitution).

Every needs to be able to dodge (Dexterity).

Every needs to be able to use skills (Intelligence).

Everyone needs to be able to resist mind control and notice things (Wisdom).

Everyone needs to be able to get people to like and agree with them (Charisma).

If you are good at something, your party members cover your weaknesses.

>>6610088

So it's not always a best idea to specialize in one thing, since that'll mess you up, but it's also a bad idea to be an all rounder, since your team mates can help for what you lack?

>>6610134
That's the reason that you roll for your ability scores. So you can always be certain of what you will be able to do, and have to think on your toes.

>>6610134
Yes. Some classes just don't need some stats.

Lol I learned Most of my shit through Baldurs Gate 1, Icewind Dale, and Baldurs Gate 2... All EPIC games for PC

>>6610243
And all not very representative of the balance and mechanics of your average game of 3.5.

Well, seeing as how I've run out of questions and I'm in the middle of watching a game go on right now, I guess thread is over. Thanks a million for everyone that helped me out, I learned a hell of a lot.

>>6610287
STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM

There's still one more book dump in the works.

>>6610291
And here it is. This covers everything left untouched in the other downloads.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=25cc68ff601c62ead956df2962098fcbbdba8e876f8f0265515d15c8b368bfbe

Good work, people. We've set a new player on the right path.

Promotions all around!

>>6610314

Sweet, got it. Thanks for going through all the trouble of putting those up for me.

I'm starting a new 3.5 campaign as a player tonight.
Which class/race should I play?

>>6610360

Yeah, thanks everyone. Still got a bunch of stuff to figure out but I'm definitely interested now, thanks a bunch.

....not edition wars? Actually helping a new player? My god, what has /tg/ done....

>>6610562
/tg/ has always been like this.

hero quest online anyone?
its free, cept i dunno how to find games
so uhno, jus puttin it out ther

This thread bathed my soul in a soothing balm of awesome and friendly. Good show, /tg/.