Africa was already an anarchy.

What about non-middle east muslim countries like Indonesia? And i guess that South America should be also divided, while China would not ally with new soviet union. (Who btw would be really shitty, specially after a nuclear war.)

I suppose it all depends on when and how World War III began.

>>7144004
>Cue Statner and Waldorf

I'd suggest cutting up the soviet power block into three instead which roughly centre on, Russia, China and India. These days they are pretty coherent states that will most likely survive independently in some form or manner. China could be a more tyrannical police state, India could suffer from nepotism and a renewed strict caste system and Russia would look back towards it soviet glory days behind some strong leader.

Is the center of Greenland really hollow like that?
Is that where Cthulhu sleeps?

>>7144037
Exactly my initial problem.
>>7144031
I imagine China and Soviet would join forces due to old "friendship," but they might divide again after the war.
I also stole the idea from some anon, that Brazil would be a major influence on South America because of its agricultural possibilities, so I let them be the main(ish)-country of the union.
Also, no fucking way India is joining forces with Pakistan; this sorta limits the Islamic Union. But you're right, maybe the countries east of India should join or unite in a different union?

>>7144056
The plot thickens!
>>7144053
So India would "take over" the countries just east of? Or what are you thinking?
Also, the police state is a good idea. I might apply this to the Islamic Union, but if we completely close down borders and exclude any non-muslims from there, maybe it would be a land of total peace?

>>7144071

The problem is that we would have problems with Chávez and the other guys from the ALBA, who would most probably ally with the guys from Soviet Confederation or something.

>>7144056
Not hollow, but the ice on top has depressed the land to below sea levels, and if you take any worth in global warming, the island is going to be an archipelago.

Also, read the shadow series in the ender saga.

>>7144094
Not for the women, if you know what I mean.

>>7144096
Take it they've solved those problems?

Updated. How's this?

>>7144195
>Muslim Republic
>India

wut

>>7144208
There are a lot of muslims in India... But you're right, I can't depend on religion in that area. I'm open for ideas.

>>7144208
Goddamn retarded Americans...

>>7144195

>Confederate Union.

THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN! AND IT WILL ALLY WITH THE NORTH AND MOVE TO RUSSIA!

>>7144195

>thinks that 'muslim' and 'islam' is two different things

back to school you must go.

>>7144195
Protip: India is hindu and fucking hates muslims.

>>7144236
>Thinks that two different nations can't be based on a religion.

Rename muslim region "Curry Confederacy" and you're golden.

>>7144257
Did your teacher smoke crack or what?

No way India would be muslim.

The only way India become Muslim land is that if you managed to this to more than 1 billion people:

a) Mass conversion
b) Ethnic Cleansing on a massive scale

>>7144261

>>7144236
The two unions would obviously not agree and thus distance themselves from each other, duh. Else it'd just be one big union.

>>7144252
They hate Pakistanis, not muslims for being muslims.

I don't see the entire middle east uniting without a few good genocides involved. There's too much baggage between the various groups.

Here is your weapon list:

Stick - 1d6 piercing damage
Stone - 1d6 bludgeoning damage

I think the power blocks would be based more on existing organizations than on a "communism v. democracy" sorta thing. Basically, if you have new, large unions they would probably be: EU, maybe include Russia and make rebel factions in east Europe. Islamic middle eastern/ north african theocracies, maybe include all the "-stans". Sub-Saharan African coalitions, or a super-state based on most of them being Christian/ animist and hating Muslims, or fucktonsofanarchy. NAU, comprised of Amurhka, Canadia, & Mehiko, prolly being fairly stable. UNASUR's successor, comprised of either uuuurrrrrbody in South America, or everyone but Venezuela, who could be a lil' dick in their side. ASEAN, but expanded... so maybe just AAN, if you want to include China and Japoon. Oz is on it's own, unless you want a fag-tastic Oceanic fuckfest with Indonesia, Japan, Oz, Taiwan, and the filly-peens. Does this work for you, OP?

>>7144305

I don't know what weapon list will be used on WW3, but i sure know what will be used on the Fourth.

>>7144276
Muslims love those things.

Although I think it's more likely that most of what is pakistan and india today will simply be a radioactive wasteland and the muslim zone will cover all of europe, most of africa and all the habitable parts of south-east asia which aren't chinese.

>>7144284
ARE YOU INSANE?

INDIA ISN'T GOING TO BECOME MUSLIM!

>>7144329
India-Pakistan Nuclear deathzone sounds fun.

That way all the traderoutes with the East run through China.

also ITT: niggas don't know about the Mogul invasions into India forfuckingever ago and the subsequent settlement of a significant number of Muslim people in India.

Ever seen the Taj Mahal? Does it look more like a Gupta temple, or a mosque. Eeeeeeehhhhgggg-zackly

Divide South America by ruling corporation.

... Okay, how's this?

>>7144350
FUCK, that's brilliant!!
Anyway, if we're about settled with the unions and stuff; which areas would be destroyed and which would be below water or otherwise uninhabitable due to climate changes?

>>7144195
>>7143991
man you need to colour this shit - e.g. now it looks like whole africa is a part of islamic union...or maybe thats intentional?

>>7144350
can be like horribly deformed Mutants Everywhere !

Germany, italy and france (with the african colonies) go communist, form a socialist union with belgium, nederlands, danemark, urss and scandinavian countries. Imperial japan stay imperial on east asia, and reach a stalemate in china. Greece, turkey and the middle-east are dominated by military dictatorships supported by britain and the US, south america also but with only US support. Australia develop tight commercial relations with japan, india is still under british rule but guerilla movements increase.

>>7144414
Northern part and Egypt+Somalia is.
I also drew in the "Sub-Saharan" union, "People's Africa" (or something prophetic-like).
And I wont bother colouring it before I'm happy with the general map design.

Too many Unions of This and that and not enough small countries remaining stubbornly independent just because.

Russia could divide up, or at least hive off the eastern third into some sort of Siberia (Sibir). Ideology would be a get-rich-quick-at-all-costs-by-exploiting-all-available-resources-before-the-Russians-reinvade, so some sort of corporatist state.

Have an Amerindian state in central South America, called Amazonia or something. They have a functioning democracy, but are poor as fuck as they have rules that heavily restrict development of rainforest.

Cut off Quebec from Canada.

India is NOT Muslim. It is more likely to invade Burma and Pakistan and Bangladesh and form a Hindu Union, than the other way around.

Why is Greenland hollow?

Have Australia cut into 2, with Western Aus a fundementalist Islamic state that grew over time from massed Indonesion and Malaysian immigration.

Have Alaska independent and go to the logical extremist Republican party govt. I.e. Christian fundamentalist.

Post world war III there would be no power blocks ... just a radioactive wasteland and warring domestic factions.

>>7144444
... but that makes no sense?

Well for starters you could keep the current ASEAN nations. Australia and NZ could do their own thing. China could have annexed the Korean peninsula (also, maybe japan?). Russia takes the baltic states (maybe even finland?). Also, big portions of Africa are possible candidates for membership in any arab coalition.

Potential nuclear targets in the US and fallout patterns.

Why is there a hole in groenland ?

>>7144473
Nuclear whipping boy.

>>7144462
Why not ? Japan don't fuck up by attacking the US, stalin defeats germany on its own with some exterior material support (what it almost did anyway IRL), revolution happens where communism is popular (germany, france and italy), britain and US have to take control of middle east ressources (what they did anyway IRL) and ensure the continuity of the british empire for commercial necessities now that europe (except spain and portugal, but those are not economically developped) is socialist.

>>7144482
Against ice ?

>>7144448
I like some of these ideas.
Like-a-so?

>>7144566

Change Amazonia to Bolivaria and you are done.

And islamism is not dominant in middle east around WWII, it is a recent phenomenon. Arab nationalism is, and it is pretty secularist.

>>7144566
An error in the guidance system of the French missiles.

>>7144448
>>7144566
On the note of "Union of this"
You also have the lesser used Federation/Confederation.
Even LESSER used is Consortium.
Maybe some of the "get rich fast" breakaway states in russia would form a Consortium.

>>7144579
>>7144526
>World War III
>III
>not II
>wat.

>>7144603
Oh. My bad.

>>7144603
>>7144618
The soviet block misled me. Around what time is that wwIII supposed to happen ?

>>7144638
Since there is an EU. Near future, or contemporary seems logical.

>>7144599
And one more thing, for the Islamic union, you can use
"Ummah Islam". Or "the Islamic Ummah". It basically means Nation in arabic, and as wikipedia states: "In the context of pan-Arabism, refers to the whole arab world."
Paraphrased.

>>7144649
What about the soviet block ?

>>7144649
>>7144638
I do imagine the map to represent the post-war era, so maybe it's 10 year after the war which could be, say, 40-50 years from now.
Is that unrealistic?

>>71446894
Well, WWIII probably means cold war went hot, right?

>>7144690
Yeah. I can't see why a world war would happen in the next decades, except for aliens. And in any case, russia wouldn't create a new soviet union.

>>7144733
They would for awesome factor. At least in my game.
Anyway, I'm fairly happy with this layout <-
So what would be destroyed in a nuclear war and what would be uninhabitable due to climate changes?

Australia and NZ combined to form the Antipodes. Also probably give them Papua and Timor.

>>7144566

Change Eastern Union to Novoya Novgorod.

Change South American Union to Bolivaria

Change Islamic Union to The Dar-es-Islam (House of Islam, iirc)

Rename People's Republic of Asia to just People's Republic (send's the signal that they won't just settle for Asia).

Have a section cut from Canada or the Western US called First Nations or something.

Have enclaves cut into the unorganised section of Africa as bases/colonies for EU, US, etc.

Scandinavia and South America are the same size? Where the hell did you get this map?

>>7144762

Oh and give them Antarctica too or at least Eastern Antarctica.

>>7144688
Make a union based on the muslim community and a giant private corporation whose main produce is chewing gum. Call it Ummagumma.

>>7144769
New Novogorod? That'd be like the capital or something.

>>7144747

US Eastern seaboard, south-eastern Britain, BeNeLux, central-Western Russia, half of the Chinese seaboard, Japan, northern India. All uninhabitable.

Are you sure you want to go down this route? It seems to be a very heavy stick. You're better off fluffing up some anti-Islamic group that got it's hand on a bunch of nukes and glassed over Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. That way, not too much land is lost and land that is lost doesn't have productive and/or plentiful populations.

Also, that means the rest of the world goes into a shit storm as everyone starts hunting down and securing the last few sources of oil. As oil dwindles, populations start rioting, and regional national governments start to band together to pool armies.

Central Africa should probably at least be a satellite of the Islamic state. I'm sure the Arab genocide of Black Africans would be accelerated in such a situation.

>>7144747
The Balkans shuld be fucked up due to war.
We're not really important enough for someone to nuke us, but you can bet your ass that we're gonna try to kill eachother as soon as we get an excuse.

>>7144803

Well, it could do what Historical Novgorod did and start off as a city-state annd expand from there, without really giving the new nation a name.

>>7144778
I cut out the lines that reflect the curving of the Earth, they were distracting me.

>>7144851
The arab countries bought up as much nuclear power they could before electricity and hydrogen became the main fuel internationally, about 30 years from now.
This ensures them political influence by force even though they drop way down economically with the lack of oil distribution. Not shitstorm about oil, except maybe in the arab countries which formed the band of the Islamic Ummah sort of as an economical support, sort of like EU works today with a common steady currency.

>>7144747
Well, nobody cared about africa. Lots of it would probably be a battleground for the major nations as they use it to gain resources, food, or whatever. Much to the dismay of the nationalist People's Africa... The US and EU are probably harsh places to live. Populations would probably be highly condensed in a few areas. If we assumed they relocated from the original cities to new cities in order to avoid fallout and more easily keep social order/society running. Soviet is so damn huge, that much probably wouldn't change, except for maybe a few nuked cities. Their spread-out ness could be a problem for them aswell though. Frequent breakaways like the consortium.

>>7144802
It's composed of nine republics.
Sysyphus - Turkey, syria
Grantchester meadows - Egypt and sudan
Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict - Pakistan and afghanistan
The narrow way - Lybia, tunisia, algeria
The Grand Vizier's Garden Party - Irak, Iran

Astronomy domine - Arabia
Careful with that axe eugene - Palestine, lebanon, jordany
Set the controls for the heart of the sun - Sahara
A saucerful of secrets - ethiopia, somalia, djibouti, eritrea

>>7144851
Like so?

>>7144991
FU- I forgot South America!
Anywho, how's this? If it's good, we can move on to radioactively polluted locations.

>>7145002
I still don't understand why the soviet confederation. Also, why is siberia polluted ?

>>7145058
The blue areas are flooded, we haven't really discussed nuclear pollution yet.
And Soviet reunited to bring awesome back into the game.

>>7144991

Much better, but shift the First Nations from the East to West coast (or better yet give them a chunk of Canada), shift the flooded part of Britain from West to East.

You are down to 3 Unions now. A much less jarring figure.

>>7145073
http://flood.firetree.net/
Here's a map of flooded areas.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Special:SeaLevel
A better one yet.

>>7145175
3 unions how?

>>7145175
>>7144991
Make it a lakota nation around dakota and wyoming.

>>7145227
Whoah brah! My house is by the beach now! And 90% of the neighborhood is flooded. Sucks to be them.

>>7145248
>>7145227

Gaddamn, Caspian sea. I had no idea that whole area was so close to sea level (not that there is any sea to flood that area, but still...)

>>7145275

Um, three nations that include "Union", I meant.

>>7145298

Actually, 4. Missed out Hispanic.

>>7145298
Aaand... that's interesting, because...?

>>7145316

because it is very easy to just call everything The Union of X and the Y Union. I like variety.

>>7145342
Well, I want it to be an interesting map to look at, since it's supposed to be the basis of the game.
Can we discuss nuclear pollution now pl0x?

>>7145355
Who shot first ?

>>7145374
Good question.
I imagine it all started in the middle east when America and EU pulled out, shit spawned an Islamic uproar and stuff went AWOL?

>>7145002
So, now we determine who uses their nukes and where? With western dominance diminishing, Israel feels increasingly isolated, readying its missiles on every major city from Egypt to Afghanistan. A dirty bomb, maybe in the Golan Heights that poisons the regions major water supply is Israel's ignition point. Missiles falling so near to its boarder are enough to send Pakistan into a panic, launching their nuclear arsenal at India and India returning fire. The resulting destruction creates a global oil panic along with a consumer panic in the US ass so many outsourced factories are lost. North America, China, Western Europe, and Russia each looking to capture oil fields from its neighbors.

>>7145417
see
>>7144919

Can we have a floating nation built on the backs of the worlds navy? Think of it as the boat people without any chance of ever finding a nation that is stable enough and willing to take them in.

>>7145384
Hm... You'll have to explain how western russia joined the EU and how the US dissoluted, too. I guess it happened before shit got real in middle east cause that's the only way the US and the allied governments could lose control of the region.

>>7145454
Soviet didn't join EU?
And lose control of what region?

>>7145446
I was thinking more like underwater bases or some fucked up shit taken over by international rebels or possibly supporters of a world government?

i have a hard time imagining the islamic union would ever exist.

Not to derail it, but that area of the world is fiercely independent, religion aside. Even when they were getting their ass kicked in the name of religion in the first crusade, they refused to organize until it was completely apparent that they were getting pwn'd.

The coalition they created to oust the crusaders was unmotivated, at best. If it wasn't for Saladin, local know how, and being close to the front, that area of the world would be Christian. But as it was, interest waned, and eventually the muslims zerg-spammed into spain and turkey.

That said, they've been warring with each other and finding reasons to hate each other for as long as history has been capable of recording it.

They really do hate each other over there and carry on stereotypes about each other that make redneck jokes look tame. It's almost amusing.

Without an over ruling world power to keep things stable, i'd expect the whole place to be one massive cluster fuck.

>>7145470
Well, according to your map moscow and st petersburg are in the EU.

Lose control of the middle east.

>>7145446

Hmmm...sure smells like Against A Dark Background here

>>7145486
I imagine it's more of an economic union, simply because the countries all go shitfuck when oil isn't profitable anymore.

The names seem a bit too similar, you used the location followed by a unifying word thing a bit too much. I think you should change the North American Union into a federation eg "The Federation of America" since it sounds more american and Alaska doesn't really need "sovereign" attached to it.

>>7145486
You could almost say the same about christian europe.

>>7145503
Great book. Much better than Matter.

>>7145493
There is already an Arab alliance called the League of Arab States. That said, I think we could get a better Muslim nation if we were able to remove Shi'i Islam from the equation and have an alliance of Sunni states. I'm sure if Iran were destabilized, the massive Sunni majority could wipe out that 10% of Shi'i Muslims.

>>7145508
Nationalism is way up, so Alaska wants to beam total control of their "nation," thus the 'Sovereign' part.
Sorta the same with the 'North' in 'North American Union'.
Though, I was thinking just calling it United States of America or United America.
Yeah, American Union is better....

>>7145493
Uh, woops... correcting that in two

Also the Balkans would join up with Russia if it had even just a small modicum of power more than it does now.

>>7145515

Agreed. While I liked both books, AaDB was so much better. The Algabraist, though, was a big disappointment.

>>7145572
But that's no fun,
Updated map.

>>7145588

Fair enough that takes precedent,

>>7145514
Good point. I haven't thought of it that way, but it's true for the most part.

>>7145588
Missed some borders. HURR

>>7145639
Who controls what remains of Central America? Hispanic Union?

>>7145580
Matter was awesome until the end. It just seemed so Nihilist. Like he was trying to prove how pointless all of it really was, and inevitably is for all low-tier races.

If its a nuke war then the planet become resource rich again since there would be far less people.

Demand for materials would drop but the technology base would be there so theres a possibility of very very rapid redevelopment but with a smaller population.

>>7145654
That's what I'm thinking.

>>7145676
Elaborate? :3

I don't think french guiana would quit france and the european union, or that colombia would join an union with venezuela.
I'd view a central america consortium, with colombia, panama, etc, and a south american people's confederation including the rest, with an autonomous status granted to natives without a defined territory.

In the far future, our waste dumps will become vital resources for all manner of items.

There is more steel used in the production of bottle caps every year than in automobiles for instance.

Plastic doesn't degrade in landfills nearly as quickly. It's easily retrieved. They're also a source of natural gas (fuel).

Just some thoughts.

i think play out the idea that japan invaded australia as an opportunity and have all of western australia controlled by them and the rest of it sort of holding the line around the desert areas

>>7145704
Think about developmental problems we currently have and imagin what the world would do with the chance to do it over and with a smaller population.

An example of this is european nations being able to rebuild their road networks after ww2 to be more efficient.

>>7145470
>I was thinking more like underwater bases or some fucked up shit taken over by international rebels or possibly supporters of a world government?

How about an international underwater sea base that was built with the aid of the US, EU, Russia, and China before diplomatic ties broke down. The under water colonists are forced to remain in their nation of origin's contributions. Split contributions for survival between nations to really create tension like the US building tidal harnesser for energy, Russia giving them sea farms for food, and China building desalination plants for water. Give the EU something really important for the original mission but useless in this survival situation like sea labs.

>>7145674

Compared to some dues-ex-machina endings, it didn't appear too contrived, but yes, the lesser-races seemed to get a raw deal out of it. I would have liked to see more of them.

Argh! The politics are fine, I can't keep dividing everything... the initial idea was that there were only a very small amount of nations and multiple super powers :(
So I'm settling for my current map, can we PLEASE discuss nuclear pollution now??!

Perhaps nations allow the regrowing of forests in now uninhabited areas with the expectation that they will survive to once again have a carbon problem.

With infrastructure smashed and the freeing up of land ethanol becomes the fuel of choice. Delicious ethanol.

That arabic oil is just so far away and not to mention radioactive.

>>7145778
Yeah. I just thought he was above such Deus Ex moves.

So I assumed there was a message there, one of futility for all the client races.

>>7145783
How about we just irradiate all the major population areas.

>>7145783
Ok well how soon were people back living in nagasaki and hiroshima? Like straight away?

So its business as usual with most people in good health until their 40s 50s and then its a big portion of people getting cancer.

Perhaps mutated children are detected and aborted?

Nuclear winter means a long but not perminant cold snap.

The state has manditory faetal screening and though you can keep your malformed baby the state refuses to pay any of the costs.

>>7145820
I don't think we should use real world examples like Japan as nukes have grown far more powerful since then.

>>7145855
Im no expert but i checked out that google maps thing that shows a location of your choice and how much of it would be gone if nuked.

I checked the standard american, chinese and british nukes on dublin and the explosion doesnt even flatten the whole place. its only a city of 1 million people. granted most of those 1 million people would be dead but thats all.

Dont go thinking the tzar bomba is anything like what would be falling on cities.

There would be places that would simply be untouched in a nuclear war. Modern countries that would get off scot free.

Ireland for instance has nothing west of it and the prevailing wind comes from the west so no fallout.

Also the only population dense region that MIGHT be nuked is dublin and there are mountains all around it. Anyway why nuke unimportant Ireland when you could nuke Britain and france?

Some nations might actually benefit from a nuclear war in terms of their relative importance in the world.

>>7145762
Yeah, something like that. I might just steal that exact outlay.
>>7145787
Hydrogen and electricity, some previously harvested in the aforementioned underwater turbine in the Americans sector of the sub-aquatic base, are main fuels. Ethanol and oil are worthless, only Arabs use oil.
>>7145820
Detecting and aborting deformed or otherwise unwanted children would be a major option in Soviet and People's Republic.
>>7145836
Where exactly would this winter be?
>>7145854
In the American countries, maybe, but in Soviet and Asia, the abort is mandatory.

>>7145876
The question wasn't about damages, it was about when the areas became inhabitable again. Which I don't think we can ascertain from past events.

>>7145935
I have been led to believe that nukes are "cleaner" now with the emphasis on a bigger bang with less fallout.

Dont trust me though. Use your google fu.

>>7145917
If you'd care to elaborate on the last statement?

>>7145935
Considering we're a decade or so past the war.
I also imagine the Middle Eastern countries hold a good 10 or so nuclear devices between them, each roughly twice the of Hiroshima. Nothing compared to Russia, America or France if I'm not mistaken.

>>7145923
>Where exactly would this winter be?

The usual places but a bit further south than normal and for a larger proportion of the year.

The big question is; What kind of game do you want to run and how destructive and long ago was the War?

'Appleseed' is one example, many governments still exist, and world travel is still common.

'Cadillacs and Dinosaurs' involves a tribe living in 'The City in the Sea', which is the top of the tallest skyscrapers of New York City. They have very little contact with the rest of the Northeastern US, much less the world.

If you want to make a world map of current political and military 'Worst-Case-Stupidity' it would be quite useful in the first example and much less so in the second.
Twilight 2000 might be interesting to you.

>>7145950
Well, the war is political and less about land. Only the small nationalist states are interested in actual land, but mainly to gain political influence.
Thus if you want to hurt a country's political influence, nuke'em and let their children die from cancer the next century or so. Fallout is fine, even preferred in some cases - see?

>>7145961
>If you'd care to elaborate on the last statement?

Some nations wouldnt be worth nuking. No military to speak of, no powerful enemies and a low population density so even if you were a dick and just wanted to fuck the world your nukes still wouldnt be headed there.

This gives them a relative advantage in that they can produce food that hasnt been grown on irradiated land and their infrastructure would be intact.

>>7145963
... emphasis on the "exactly" part. Preferably you could sketch it in on the map?

>>7145992
Too lazy. Just drop average world temperature a 7 degrees.
You used to have frost? Now you have blizzards. You used to be temperate in winter? Now you have frost.

Expand the arctic circle and shrink the region around the equator thats too hot.

>>7145988
Tru dat. Which countries are these? I somewhat imagine the European countries that don't hold much firepower?

>>7145978
I sort of wanted to make a political game where the PCs choose affiliation with one of the greater unions, but that's really all I have right now. Of course the game could take an action twist if the war started again, WWIV.

>>7146013
I'm more fond of a polar shift-like situation; north pole practically gone, but Australia almost connects to the South Pole.
No idea if this is in any way plausible.

>>7146017
Well I already mentioned ireland probably, northern european countries, large parts of africa would not be nuked, same with south america and bits of asia.

Anywhere with strategic value is gone, everywhere around that is struggling, everywhere around that is not better off but definitely more influential.

>>7146028
If you want hard science, skip the pole-shift.
The world you are describing is almost exactly Appleseed. There is a Appleseed Databook that you would probably use lots of or maybe adopt entirely.

>>7146053
Sorta like this?
Green areas are nuked or affected by fallout - based on a general west-to-east wind.
Blue are still permanently flooded.

I started typing about 30 minutes ago, so excuse any redundancies...

First, I think we're jumping a bit far by going right into a map and naming the Union of This and such. With such a major restructuring of political lines, you really need to delve into what got you here more than just "WWIII."

World War III...
-Who were the major belligerents?
-What brought them to arms?
-Where were the primary arenas of battle (land, sea)?
-If including WMDs (be they nuclear, biological, or chemical), which it seems you are, were they launched en masse or used for tactical strikes?
--On the previous two, detail out some specifics to throw into your lore (Second Great Battle of Stalingrad, etc).
-What were the terms and resolutions of peace?
...the list can go on, but get a rough outline first.

For your pre-war run up, look at what you see in the world today and extrapolate...
-You have militant Islam in the Middle East, dangerous on a small level, but ultimately not unified to pose a mass level threat without special circumstances. Those would be a rogue group getting their hands on nukes, or a state like Iran taking drastic measures. Other regional WMD capable states are Western allies (ostensibly, there's always wiggle room) and are as such unlikely to launch an attack without a change in power. Many movies and video games to loot ideas from (CoD 4 comes to mind).
-China has been up and coming for years. The manpower they command, along with the world debt they command (especially with the US) is astounding. There's always been wiggle room to work with that, such as in the Fallout franchise.
-Russia has been a popular one, since there were several occasions where this almost became a reality with the USSR. I can imagine there are still those in Russia and the former SSRs that hold a grudge against the capitalist West. There's plenty of fiction to steal from here, also (see CoD 4 again).

Next, of special importance are the matters of WMD use and peace. Are we talking isolated pockets of nuclear destruction (with associated fallout) or full out wasteland for hundreds of miles? Was peace achieved by delegations between the belligerents, or did it come because there was no one left to launch any more missiles?

Once you have your combatants, areas of battle, and so on combined with what sort of feel you want (post-apoc or more reminiscent of post-WWII) you can worry about your post-war political borders. Rather than what you've been outlining, I would definately go with smaller nations than larger unions. I don't see enough time to abandon nationalistic sentiments between now and then to form any pan-Islamic unions or Republics of Asia. Just look at modern China. They have enough problems controlling the many ethnic groups in their borders now, not to think of throwing in Mongolians, Tajiks, etc.

Ultimately, it's yours to decide, but I hope I've helped.

>>7146129
America and Europe invaded the Middle East, starting with Afghanistan and Iraq, later moving on to Pakistan (cover is Al-Qaeda) and Iran (cover is dictatorship a la Saddam Hussein).
Struggling to display power, Saudi Arabia invades Turkey and Syria. Civil war occurs in Turkey and turks are treated by Greece as jews were just after WWII, ain't no way you're migrating to our country! Thus, war between Greece and Turkey, soon accompanied by the rest of the European Union trying to "fix it," sending troops into Turkey to fight the Saudi forces.
Palestine supports Saudi, Israel is practically forced by America to support Turkey, so the civil war between Pally and Isray blazes once again.
As hydrogen and electricity takes over as main fuel, the western world (Europe, America) loses interest in the Middle Eastern oil deposits. They pull out, leaving the entire area to themselves in a pre-democratic state, evolving in financial depression and either dictatorship or anarchy. That's really all I've got.

Europe needs to go back to that fuckfest of slaughtering eachother like in history and become very divided.

>>7146227

>Israel supporting turkey.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That was a good one.

>>7146227
A thought. Saudi Arabia, still struggling to display power - remember they bought a whole fuckton of nuclear shit? Well, maybe just little fuckton - form a coalition with Egypt and Morocco in the name of Jihad (plausible?), moving collected troops through northern Africa, invading a completely unprepared Spain. They nuke the French nuclear deposits to avoid that threat... and that's all I've got right now...

>>7144413
The Netherlands would totally die. Half of their country is below sea-level.
Deserts are growing in Spain. (anno 2009, The south of spain is getting pretty dry)
North-africa is unhabitable.
Parts of greenland, siberia, and north-canda are kinda habitable.
Australia, dry like my ex-alcoholist grandfather.
The kaukasus is still a fucking Chaos.
Oh and SA is still Christian.
the rest of america got brains and is Atheist.
Baha'i/Jehovah/Hare Krishna/Buddhism/weird atheist-hippie-endoftheworld-religion has kinda taken over Europe.

>>7146307
Forced by America, who're just trying to not fuck up like they did in Vietnam.

>>7146322

If anything, all the Muslim countries will unite to try and destroy Israel, they may or may not fail.

>>7146345
We'll have to gather the muslim countries first.
We're aiming towards the Islamic Ummah, who I imagine invade Israel and basically destroy everything reminiscent of Judaism.

>>7146345
Israel will grow pretty fast, because the new world religion supports jews, or something.
And then they take over turkey.

>>7146375

I said it may or may not fail because it sorta almost happened...

Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

>>7146376
Truly enraging the muslim countries, encouraging them to form an expansive Arab coalition; the Islamic Ummah! :U

The USA will split into two different countries.

The new country will adopt the confederate flag.

You seem to have failed to factor in that Israel is the type of country that has no need for ICBMs as they have already concealed Nukes within every single city they could concievably want to blow up in future.

Stop laughing, you know this is the sort of shit Israel does. We are talking about the guys whos Special Forces killed the Government ministers of a country just so they could use their clothes and cars as disguises to get close enough to some hostage-takers to kill them without risk of collateral.

And then agreed in the UN to never to this ever again.

And then did again a week later.

Sauce? sounds like a PC.

>>7146504

I would like more info on this please, the special forces shenanigans that is.

Dammit, late to the game, so just some pennies:

South American Union:
They control green products. This is both high yield organic crops, herbs and wood. If they say your industry is putting stress on the Amazon, you're economically fucked as their accusations influence ambiental taxes.

Islamic Union: Strong alliance with the African contingents after they were abandoned from supply during WW3. Most states are judiciated by a council of High Imams from the biggest schools. The Sufi State is independent beside India.

India is now mostly Buddhist/Animist, negotiating with Korea, Japan and even Australia. Their combined Navy is in the process of renewal, but it is the safest place in the water. Great medical market.

EU is a police block of sorts, having received Israeli refugees and passed drafting laws. They are known for their hydroponics, total defense military systems and protectionism.

>>7146227
I was going to suggest a lead in like that, but missed it. By that, I mean with the US overstretching itself in the Middle East.

In general, I'd suggest to try to stay away from polarizing the religious aspect. I'm not a religious man, but it sort of leaves a bad flavor in my mouth. Especially with all of the modern headlines and pop culture, it seems a little overused.

I'm not sure where the jump is being made by the Saudis invading Turkey et al to maintain their status as a power broker. Though I do support the idea of the oil power drying up with the introduction of alternative fuels, as this basically unhinges the necessary alliance structure that we have simply to supply us with cheap (!) fuel.

So, we have the USA in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran, and then supporting Turkey. Greece is being supported by the EU (which seems to be continent wide and more federalized now). Do we now have direct war between the USA and EU, or are they fighting more of a proxy war?

On the US pulling out of the Middle East, presumably after extensive fighting and destruction, I definitely see the region as being totally not unified at all. If there are any major power groups left (governmental remains, al-Qaida, etc) you're going to see them take over your population centers. Might makes right in this case. In the rural/undeveloped areas, I'd see it reverting to the tribal structures of the past and today.

>>7146413
>Souhern America
>The South has arisen again!
>>7146568
Ah, THIS is what I've been asking for! I creamed myself a little, this is absolutely awesome!
Except for the Ummah + Africa, because we established that the Peopel's Africa mainly consists of fundamental Christians.
>>7146504
This seems interesting, but you'll need to elaborate.

>>7146117
>switzerland nuked
I do not approve

>>7146504
I can definitely see Israel doing something like this. With their record of extremely well-trained armies (Six Day War, etc) and spec ops (abuction of Adolph Eichmann), I don't see a preparation such as this being too far fetched in this continuity.

>>7146648
Well, Turkey is also a member of EU, so EU is only really interested in solving the conflict between Greece and Turkey and of course between the Saudi invading force and Turkey (by blowing Saudi to bits).
As EU and USA pulls out of the Middle East, this leaves them open to join forces with or be invaded by Saudi Arabia. Then we basically have Jihad between the muslim countries and Europe as a symbol of Americanism, since the actual America is way too far away for an invasion. Morocco and Egypt join and invade Spain and Saudi nukes France to avoid being nuked themselves.
Can you build anything from that? Preferably involving the USA directly and then China/Asia and Russia/New Soviet.

Sup Plague Doc. Did you manage to get the thread I tried to kill back on track?

>>7146818
People lost interest, mainly because people kept giving me mixed commands so I never really knew what to do. I blame myself for being too railroady, I should have waited for more suggestions and see which were the more popular ones.
How've you been, WITNESS?

>>7146717
I don't see the countries that were under US occupation as being cohesive enough to join any side definitely. I haven't heard any number of years this is taking or armaments used, but my assumption is that these countries are shells of them former selves. That may not be where you want to go with it, but I think that's what I'd do.

Still shaky on why the Saudis would invade Turkey. If anything, I would think the regional powers/rogue states would take advantage of the confusion to try to take out Israel again. Even Egypt, with the progressive relations we've seen in the last 30 years, could go hardline again. Until I get more info on the Saudis reasoning, I'm not going to venture further on that.

As for civil war in Turkey, I definitely see that this could be a Kurd independence move rather than a straight struggle for power. If Iraq is one of the US destabilized countries, northern Iraq (Kurd controlled) may push their brethren in Turkey to join in a newly formed Kurdistan. This, presumably, would happen after the US pulled out of Iraq.

I'm not totally clear on either China's or Russia's intentions or stances. More info would be great.

Wife is taking over the computer, so I may not be back for a while. I'll be looking out for you though. Keep us informed. Someone archive this shit.

>>7146717
>>7146648
Hoping Historyfag is busy writing ... uh, history D:
Else, thread is dead and that will make me sad. I feel so close to a conclusive WWIII backstory!

>>7143991

>Africa devolved into anarchy

ahahahahahahahaha

>>7147045
OH PHEW!

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Pre-Oil decline:
Well, let's say instead of directly supporting Turkey, Israel just officially invades Palestine on behalf of USA, who supports EU who supports Turkey.
That gives the Saudis reason to go to war with Israel, thus almost directly interfering with the US.
Now oil is officially worthless: Post-oil decline.
This results in the US losing interest in the countries they invaded in the middle east, so they pull out and Saudi Arabia, still hungry for power, overtake these countries easily as they have been left weak, like a POW left to bleed in the battlefield.
Now, because these countries are economically and politically exhausted, it's more likely that the Kurds of Turkey invade kurdish Iraq and form a new trans Iraq-Turkey country of Kurdistan, which in turn is invaded by Saudi Arabia.
But back to Israel, that has been simultaneously invaded by Saudi. Would the US have lost interest or is there more to their relationship than just oil?

>>7147217
Typing from my iPhone now. Pace may be a little slow.

A little timelining...
-US invades Afghanistan to remove the Taliban, who are uncooperative in the extradition of Osama bin Laden; installs pro-US government.
-US invades Iraq under the pretense that Saddam Hussein has WMDs; removes Saddam from power and installs pro-US government.
-Al-Qaida and the Taliban secure foothold in Pakistan across the Afghani-Pakistani border; unilateral US drone and spec ops increase in Pakistan without permission.

That's what we have so far. Now, possibilities...
-US withdrawl from Iraq per agreement with Iraqi govermnent.
-Pakistani government becomes uncooperative; US launches full invasion to establish pro-US government.
-Iran uses American invasion of Pakistan as evidence of American crusade against Islam. Unwilling to directly attack American forces, Iran invades Iraqi "puppet state" as they see it.
-Situation in Iraq is unstable. Iraqi security forces are unable to deal with domestic terrorism, Pro-independence Kurds, and now Iranian invasion. US intervention required; America stands by their ally and commits troops to fighting Iran.

Continued...

>>7147591
Now, let's assume a few years before the US invades Pakistan, and at least a half of a year to a year of diplomatic posturing between the West and Iran before the latter takes action. We now have massive American troop commitments in the Middle East (possibly under a new president). Discontent rising on the home front. Oil is still used on a wide scale domestically, but US military technologies have been developed to be a good amount of alternative energy, simply for a reason like this.

-Saudi profit margins are shrinking. Hardliners in the government authorize clandestine support to the Iranians and resistance groups in the various countries. Some of this support comes through Palestinian fighters equipped with Saudi arms.
-Israel presents intel to the US that resistance fighters are coming from Palestine, and the US gives a secret OK for Israel to re-annex Palestinian terratories. Israeli occupation of Gaza et commences.

Moving back to the PC...

>>7147796
>>7147591
I creamed myself again, I love these ideas!
The thread has been archived at suptg, but only up until my previous post - will it update or do we have to archive it again?
Link: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7143991/

>>7147796
Last bit was supposed to be "Gaza et al."

Saudi Arabia is now in danger of being exposed to the West as supporting anti-US fighters as Israel roots out Hamas and the other Palestinian fighters in their new territories. Alternative energy sources continue to develop, now gaining significant ground at home in the US and EU.

-Northern Iraq, de facto controlled by the Kurds since the majority of Iraqi and US troops are concentrated in the south to defend against Iran, joins with Kurdish independence movements in Turkey to form Kurdistan. Turkey moves to preserve its territory.
-US troops are committed to Iraq as they were to South Vietnam in the 50s and 60s, supplemental (to avoid massive unrest at home) but gradually increasing their role in direct combat operations. As such, Iran has just been pushed out and kept off Iraqi soil rather than being toppled straight off. A state of uneasy coexistence, with frequent clashes, is more the norm than cohesive invasions. The idea is that this is occurring over several years.
-Until the Israeli occupation of Palestine occurs, when Iranian hardliners "feels their duty against the forces of Zion" and unleash the secret nuclear capacity successfully on Iraq, though unsuccessfully on Israel.

Working on getting the Saudis deeper in without it seeming to contrived...

>>7148033
You lost me at "supplemental"...
brb, Google translate

Europe.

Limited nuclear war-scenario:

I figure that after a major collapse, Western Europe would collapse due to the loss of major urban centers and the partial collapse of agricultural production. Local civil wars would break out between the Muslim communities and the indigenous peoples, further hindering the reconstruction of the Western nations.

Russia, as we know it would also collapse. A major breakdown in civilization would result in the loss of adequate communication and infrastructure. So, after some kind of an apocalypse, Russia would just struggle to keep itself in one piece...

Also, it is my guess that Scandinavia and/or a loose political and economic alliance between the more developed nations of the Eastern Europe (Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, perhaps Slovakia) would become the new major powers of Europe, since these nations would probably survive a nuclear conflict with less casualties. Warsaw, Budapest, or Prague are probably less important targets then London, New York or Moscow, after all.

Full scale nuclear apocalypse-scenario:

Nobody survives, everything is fucked.

>>7148233
>Nobody survives, everything is fucked.
If nobody survives, who will be there to witness that everything is fucked? DUN DUNN!!
>>7148033
Also, Google Translate helped a bit, I think.
But >>7148233 has a point... what about Russia? I insist upon the reestablishment of a Soviet union D:

>>7148286
I'm afraid the well has run dry for now. Plus, I need to sleep so I can work tonight (3rd shift). I'm still working on how the Americans could pull out of the Middle East that wouldn't completely conflict with the precedent set by past foreign policy (see Israel).

I'm saving this thread to my computer as it is right now. You can throw me ideas at filterbroken@aol.com (my proxy email, I'll give you my real one when I get any mail from you).

>>7148356
>>7148356
This thread at suptg:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7143991/

I saved what we've got so far, so I can send you an email with that and the map we came up with.

>>7148286

Well, if you insist...

The Soviet Union is reformed by communist/nationalist elements of the Russian Military, but the new state would be far weaker than the old USSR. It's nuclear arsenal had been largely dismantled before the war and the remaining nukes were either spent during the conflict, destroyed or simply became useless, because after the war Russia no longer had the capacity to properly maintain them.

The New Red Army would also be only a mere shadow of it's former self with the remaining few intact units barely able to even keep order in the anarchy that postwar Russia is. The power of this new Soviet Union would be restricted to the remaining urban centers and their surroundings. Also, the new Union would find itself locked in a deadly civil war with various anti-communist/nationalist/czarist (why not...) forces and Muslim guerillas in the Caucasian Mountains and Kazakhstan. Siberia would devolve into complete anarchy with the Second Soviet Union and China rushing to grab as much as they can.

Destroyed cities, starving people, demoralized military, failing crops and virtually no social/medical care. Welcome to the Restored Soviet Union.

>>7146227
turkey has the 2nd largest army in NATO bro, and it is much more industrialised(one of the top20 economies). saudis can't do jack shit to turkey. and greece is going bankrupt.

PROTIP: Communist China always hated the Soviet Union and would ally with a renewed Soviet Union.

PROTIP #2 : India and China hate each other, and IRL are always stationing lots of troops by each others boarders to (quoting a Chinese friend) "show our strength".

>>7148553

Have there be two main factions in post-nuclear Russia. The Moskovians and the Peterbyrgians. Both have an extensive system of fallout shelters designed for this exact purpose. Sure, the cities are gonna get nuked, but the underground will survive. Both cities have a high proportion of "elite" people such as scientists, politicians, doctors, lawyers, etc.

The Moscow region is the "old" government, meaning it wants to re-consolidate all of Russia under itself again. St. Petersburg is the "old-old" monarchist capital, where they have re-instated a Grand Duke, and they're totally willing to let Siberia and the Far East go. Both sides have recruiting parties, advanced technology, and good secure home-bases. If I were to use Fallout terminology, think Enclave vs. Enclave.

Additionally, if you want to include the other countries that were part of the USSR, have them organize under Kiev, it being one of the first cities there (or Novgorod, yeah), and the high amount of fallout shelters. These guys would be more like the Brotherhood, because in Russia, the tendency to centralize means that the good professionals go to either Petersburg or Moscow, so the Kiev guys would just have to rely on technology already there, without making any new ones.

But the main question is- how the hell do you have enough food for all. I mean, yeah, a fuckton of people will die to starvation, but crops would be failing worldwide. In a couple of years post-war there will be no more food.

dont know if this was said but most likely to happen is the US mexico and canada join together creating a EU like super state...the EU stick together...russia china and iran join together...and the AU (african union)

everyone fights small localized wars in south america and the middle east/indian sub continent but nobody ever gains much because of the balance of power...places like japan and australia stay out of the alliance system but act as go betweens for the different super states.

the US super state tries to be like its former self but does not have the same soft power they once had they now attempt to use hard power on south america which has failing more inline with the sino-russo alliance. the war is bogged down and becomes a guerrilla war.

the sino-russo alliance attempts to gain influenced over the indian sub continent and also with the help of iran the middle east. this is stopped by EU and US super state forces.

the EU goes back to africa. they want to use the land of africa for farming to help feed the EU's huge population. the AU with help from the sino-russo alliance stop this.

the AU is the weakest of the four super states and is forced mostly to a defensive war with the EU.

SOUTH AMERICA:

With the oil and trade sectors going down as the north wages war, distinct blocks start appearing:

The oh shit Reformist block: southern states, who see their international ties fall and start filibustering on the Andeans to accept reforms.
The Andean block: the oil states and some of the northern. They preach latin independence at all costs.
The Pacific block is formed from the eastern states, which have few ties and unrest. Brazil aids them as they are the more neutral.

When the Reformists take initiative against the Andeans, Brazil jumps in to bomb everyone in an attempt to keep peace. The struggle is deviated towards the Pacific block which suffers greatly. Using this as leverage, Brazil and the Pacific block strong arm the others into peace, and install the ambiental reforms. This limits Reformist involvement, and puts weight over the oil Andeans who both pay to reforest the Amazon and reconstruct the middle of the continent.

The SA Union is officially formed, dominated by Brazil and the Pacific block. They have continuous unrest in the northern side as Panama starts losing influence with their resurgence.

Religion changes to Animism as folk celebrations become more prevalent than the base of Christianism. Defense investment is handled by the will of Brazil.

Industry is placed upon the borders of the Amazon and most of the Andean range, from where goods flow outward. Exports become high as the organic laws make people feel safer. The Environmental Resources Ministry rations resources to the main cities and applies punishment to those that commit the crime of pollution. Green is serious business, and the whole Union better be happy about it.

>>7148722
>>7148722
>>7148722
lol forgot to add the UN is still around but is a joke the same way it is now hahahah

>>7148696

Can I take this idea, please, Mr. Anonymous?

>>7148805

Sure. I come from the region, so...

Actually, I think that in order to describe a real-world game, we need to get people from each respective region, and describe it, because an outsider's view is always wrong.

So, I, a Russkiefag described Russia. We need a Britfag to describe the Nova Pax Britannica. We need a Southerner to describe the Confederacy, and so on.

i would say that WW3 would be non nuclear in all honesty.

im telling you, everyone has got alot of this wrong WW3 will be non nuclear and will because large numbers of super states will form to try to control resources. its all ready happening look at the EU

>>7148722
this seems the most likely.

Why does it look like Mexico has siezed a lot of land? The Mexican military is literal shit. It's so bad in fact that the Texas National Guard could take them over. (Not to mention the National Guards of Arizona,New Mexico and California.)

>>7148744
On the war:

Reformists win the initial push, but then spread thin to control the Andes in a guerrilla war that is going out of control. Brazil shakes up Peru and Ecuador as diplomatic ensemble, but peace comes to little effect.

When the reports of war crimes start piling on the Andes region inside Peru and the Amazon, the calls for foreign intervention come. With the potencies distracted, Brazil is left alone to work and forcefully blocks the Interoceanic Highways and main paths to quiet down everyone while threatening the north. The Reformists are happy until they're told they have to pay up for the damages incurred, and now the Andeans are happy.

By hard and soft diplomacy all estates go into summit repeatedly, where Energy policies come to belong to Brazil, while everyone pays up for environmental and war damages.

Eventually they supervise development of the settlements in the eastern side for those damaged by the war, which in time quiets the Andean block. The Reformist block is left with the option to surrender Naval authority or being forcibly taken by land. The Amazonian sector is one of the most secure places in the world now.

On religion: You can't tell head or heels from this mess. With the war, most people forgot about Church (the Vatican quickly withdrew to safer lands), but remembered the parades and holidays. Nowadays most cities have a few main saint patrons for which celebrations are made, while the Amazonian sector has animal deities.

>>7148942

Where did you get that information?

UPDATED MAP with colours n'stuff.
Cyan areas are oceans and cyan areas within borders are flooded areas.
Lemon green areas are fallout affected.

>>7149218
Oh, and no. Amazonia isn't entirely devoured by fallout... Odd choice of colour, I admit.

FFF- you guys are fucking up my politics yet again again again...
As for me, the map stays as is and I'll be working on the backstory with the map in mind. Historyfag already wrote a pretty convincing initial timeline.

>>7149111
I looked up information on there military and air force. (The Mexican Air Force consists of 6 jets. ALL of them dating back to the 70's. The Texas National Guard could conquer half of mexico by themselves if they wanted to.)
Also taking into account the Mexican Drug Cartel insurgency there having to deal with.
I know a guy who's Uncle moved back down there a year or two back and from what he's saying it's literal chaos. The Local and Federal Police are hopelessly corrupt and have shoot outs with the Mexican military on occasion. The Mexican goverment is near collapse at this time. I heard a few months back that a high ranking Mexican general was shoot by Members of a Drug cartel even.

The idea that in this setting they could get there shit together and invade the US with the chaos there in and considering how pathetic there military is to begin with doesnt seem that accurate.

>>7149577
I imagine the mere population of Mexican (and other Hispanic) immigrants would riot and join forces with Mexico. A USA struggling to maintain peace within its countries wouldn't mind much in a situation of utter chaos.

Wow, we went from >>7143991 to >>7149218 in just 9 hours..

>>7149577
greetings from Mexico

you are right except that we are not in the verge of destruction or chaos,is more like a couple steps from a revolution and yes, federal institutions are corrupted to the bone

a horrible scenario if you ask me

I just realized I fucked up with the previous map. Fuck me sideways.
Here's the actual map with nicer fallout-graphics.

>>7149577

Thats funny if its true, mind digging up some sources?

>>7149657
You'd still have to deal with the National Guards of those States as well as Local and State Police. Not to mention all the Crazy red necks with guns that live in Texas and Arizona. So while they MIGHT try and revolt it'd be more of an Epic Fail. And the Mexican Army wouldnt want to get involved becuase if they did that then there dealing with some very pissed off National Guardsmen who drastically outnumber the Mexican Military as well as the US goverment declaring War on Mexico and blowing them back to the stone age with Air and Naval strikes. As well as putting actual US military forces who are stationed in those states that are not fighting in WWIII.
You also still have to remember that Mexican military would still be rumbling with the Drug Cartels and Corrupt Federal and Local Police.

>>7149959
If the Mexican immigration has become so overwhelming that most of the area is populated by hispanics, thus the police force and national guard (of that area) would be of hispanic origin as well.
The rednecks are retracting to Southern America anyway, so they're practically out of the way.
Either way, meh, it's a cool idea.
I wish this were magic we were talking about. "Hey, I ain't gonna explain jack shit."

>>7149928
Best place to find the basics is wikipedia.
The Mexicans Airforce has 11 Combat Jets (All of them F-5 Freedom Jets made in 1959.)There close support planes are those old Pilatus PC-7's (made in 1978.) They have 60 of these.

There army is about 130,000 soldiers (Including support.) They're Infantry Transport vehicles are made up largely of ford and chevy PICKUP trucks. Not to mention jeeps and vehicles dating back as far back as the Korean War. There MAIN armored vehicles are some wheeled crummy looking things made back in the 80's.

The Texas Air National Guard has acsess to F-16's A-10's and Predator Drones(They also have C-130 transport planes.) The Texas National Guard also has acess to while older still superior vehicles when compared to Mexico And thats just the Texas National Guard.

>>7150143
If NG and Police elements were to start going Rogue and secede the US Military would get involved. Mexico if it helped these rogue units in any way or started carving out more territory would stir up a Hornets nest.

I think the CSA should be a might bigger. Throw in the old gang or something for kicks.

Well, just for starters, let's settle who's getting nuked.

Every country in Europe loses its capital, and probably several other major cities. They're also going to take hits to bits of countryside that happen to have military bases in them, which will fuck up agriculture for a while. Turkey is included in this category, given that they were part of NATO.

European Russia is a burning ruin. Moscow will have taken an obscene number of nukes, every other major city will have eaten at least one, and the damage to farmland as a result of strikes going after military bases will be even worse. Siberia is also fucked, in so far as that there aren't that many cities there and all of them will have been hit at least once. Central Asia also will have taken hits to the major cities, along with hits to military bases; Baikonur will also have taken at least one hit to destroy the Russian space program.

China is fucked. Most of their population lives in relatively compact areas, and will be fried by the nukes hitting the major cities. To add to the fun, rupturing dams are going to cause flash floods on all major and most minor rivers within hours to days of the war at most, scouring downstream regions clean of life. And again, food-producing regions are getting hit both to take out bases and on principle.

Korea is double-fucked, since it probably got nuked repeatedly while also playing host to a full-scale conventional war. North Korea comes out slightly better simply because they don't have as far to fall.

Japan gets hit repeatedly. Major cities go, military bases go, and probably a few transit links also go (due to geography, there are a number of extremely vulnerable bottlenecks in the Japanese transportation infrastructure).

Taiwan is a cinder.

>>7150298
That's pretty much what I've got on the map, isn' it?
Except for Japan, which is under water.

>>7150298

In southeast Asia, Singapore is gone, Thailand probably lost Bangkok and maybe a port or two, and Vietnam and Laos both got hit (Vietnam considerably more so, as there are more targets). Indonesia loses Jakarta at a minimum, and probably takes an additional hit or three to military bases and cities on Java; the country probably disintegrates postwar as everybody who can declares independence. Burma gets hit at least once, but aside from killing the government and a million or so people in Rangoon it doesn't affect the place much.

The Aussies and New Zealand each get hit a few times; figure all of the major cities ate at least one nuke. Further north, the Philippines and Marianas will have taken nukes to the US military bases, and Manila probably was hit at least once to take the Filipino government out.

India and Pakistan trade cities for a while. The rubble in Pakistan gets bounced a few extra times over the Indian rubble. A few Indian cities might survive simply because the Pakistanis don't have enough nukes to kill quite everything, but since agricultural productivity is going to crash due to counter-force strikes to the countryside, those cities will starve in short order. Bangladesh probably doesn't get nuked, but the irradiation of the Ganges and Brahmaputra and the hordes of refugees from India will do a pretty good job of killing the country anyway. Sri Lanka might not get nuked by anybody either.

In the Indian Ocean itself, Diego Garcia gets hit to remove the British/US base there, and a bunch of other islands also eat nukes to kill military facilities.

>>7150385

The Middle East is toast. Between Israeli nukes, Iranian nukes, strikes overshooting other targets, and the collapse of the global economy that buys their oil, every country between the Afghan border and Libya is fucked sideways. And probably got nuked multiple times. Egypt gets special mention because the nuking of the Aswan Dam kills over 90% of their population with the resulting flood.

North Africa gets hit at least once or twice, mainly to settle scores with Gaddaffi. Algeria may escape without damage; Tunisia gets at least some refugee problems and maybe a nuke from one of the Middle East combatants, Morocco gets a fallout plume and possibly a nuke if one of the combatants is using their ports or airfields.

Africa gets off fairly lightly. South Africa gets nuked, as do Angola and Mozambique; also, any military facilities that get used by one of the sides in the war gets either a nuke or a large-scale conventional strike to put it out of action. Most of the governments will collapse, but otherwise Africa will be pretty much as usual. Minus any foreign aid, so famine and disease are going to kill millions of people above what they already do.

>>7150447
Now, for the Americas.

The USA is dead. Every major city ate at least one and probably multiple nukes, the destruction of the missile fields in the Great Plains states will also kill most of our agriculture, and the way in which our other military facilities are spread out guarantees that every state takes its share of atomic destruction. Russia is in even worse shape, granted, but not by much.

Canada also dies, because they have relatively few people concentrated into a narrow strip along the US border. All of the major cities go, as do the various airfields and bases scattered throughout northern Canada.

Cuba takes a nuke or two, along with the inevitable strike on Guantanamo. Venezuela gets hit because the oil produced there is almost exclusively sold to the US, making it a target. Brazil gets hit pretty much to ensure that they don't get to enjoy the destruction of any possible competition (seriously, they were being targeted by the Russkies at minimum for exactly that reason). A few other military facilities may also be hit, along with the spaceport in French Guiana.

The Panama Canal gets nuked repeatedly, and most of the Central American countries will take at least one nuke because they're on the wrong side of an ideological debate with at least one major combatant. Mexico gets hit to add to the chaos in North America and to increase the problems the US will have post-war (if the US still existed, that is).

>>7150372
The problem with your map is that you're assuming that coherent governments are going to make it through a full-scale nuclear war.

They aren't. Maybe in a few countries that were sufficiently tiny or unimportant to avoid nuking, but even they are going to be feeling the effects of the fallout plumes and of the complete disappearance of the global economy. The major countries? Not a chance. Too much damage in too short a time for government to survive on more than a local scale, and it'll probably take at least a generation for society to pull itself together enough to start thinking about reunifying the old countries.

Oh, and throw in the fact that some sort of large-scale ecodisaster is inevitable; the only question is whether it's the climate change that we've already made inevitable or the incredible quantities of pollution caused by the burning cities and fallout that fucks over the rebuilding efforts more.

>>7150629
I stopped reading at "full-scale nuclear war."
This was never my intention; nuclear weapons should partake in the war, but mainly to jumpstart it. The countries would quickly realize that nuclear weapons would fuck too much up globally, especially if we assume that Global Warming is a theory accepted worldwide.
After all, this is supposed to be a >>pseudo<<-historical game, not an accurate prophecy.
I'm well aware that I'm far off in many instances, but I do insist upon blazing up the Soviet vs. US tendency, because it's just an awesome setting, at least for those of my generation that didn't experience the Cold War 1st hand.
I can through out a blank template worldmap if you'd like to design your own WWIII/post-WWIII world?
One with present existent borders is easily found on Google.

Alaskan Sovereign: Changing its name from Alaska to -n Sovereign symbolizes power, simply to ward off a possible American invasion. $: Alaskan Dollar
Amazonia: Anon proposed it, sounds cool and fits well. $: Amazon Peso.
American Union: As the idea of states has declined, the entire area formed a new political and economical libertarian/democratic Union. $: American Dollar (new currency, same name).
Auster Ummah: As Indonesian and Polynesian immigrants took over the area, the subject of religion became an important nationalization argument, and keeping in touch with their Arabian roots is very important. $: Auster Pound.
Bolivaria: Anon proposed it, sounds cool and fits well. $: Bolivio.
Eastern Consortium: To send the signal of financial independence (Consortium) and political independence from Soviet (Eastern). $: Corona
First Nations: Proudly spawning the "New America," this capitalist/republican country draws on the orignal American Dream and cultural heritage. $: (historical American Dollar,) Unus/Uni.
Hispanic Union: To send the signal of cultural heritage. $: Mexican Peso.
Islamic Ummah: To send the signal of religious heritage. $: Riyal.
People's Africa: Feels opressed by the Islamic Ummah, sending the signal of unity despite cultural differences, although heavily fundamental Christianity rules. $: Sahari.
People's Republic: United under the Chinese flag, signaling their unsatiable thirst for economic power by excluding any regional limitation. $: Yuan.
South Asian Confederation: Signaling independence from the People's Republic and unity with one-another. $: Rupee.
Southern America: Just a dumb name cuz they ain't bothered calling it "The Again Arisen South that Would Rise Again!" $: Gunz.
Soviet Confederate Union: Drawing on the honour of the great Soviet name without the shame connected to the fall of the Soviet Union, simply by adding the Confederate part, as if it had expanded.

EU $: Euro
Australia $: Australian Dollar.

>>7151433
Considering that it's a huge fucking target, why is DC not glowing? the Chesapeake Bay area has the highest concentration of military targets in the entire western hemisphere.

>>7151621
I somewhat imagine a cold war-like state would emerge quickly between western Russia/China and eastern US.
Russia is just waiting to fire their nukes at East US, but are hesitant for whatever reason (I'll wing it).
US simply can't fire nukes at Russia, because the fallout might affect themselves bigtime.

>>7151433

Umm, points for the effort, but...

- shouldn't Amazonia and Bolivaria be the other way around?
- the flooded areas are geographically impossible, low-lying areas should be flooded before mountains (suggest using a sea level rise calculator)
- the Eastern Consortium looks a bit non-workable, and Finland's participation in it rather unlikely

>>7151808
I'm too tired to care right now.
Once again I fail at making a simple campaign for me to practice GMing.