> Infinity's site got hacked (again)

There's a joke to be made of this

Starting out with this list I made. Got any commentary?

====ALEPH====
Myrmidon Lieutenant
- Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW / 32 pts

Myrmidon
- Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW / 25 pts

Post Human
| Proxy Mk. 1 - Doctor
| - Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / 14 pts
| Proxy Mk. 2
| - MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / 29 pts [1,5 SWC]

Deva (Multispectral Visor Lv 2)
- Spitfire, Nanopulser / 34 pts [1 SWC]

Netrods x 4
- AI Beacon / 4 per, 16 pts

150 pts / 2.5 SWC / 8 orders.

>>8121298
The idea is to hidden deploy the TO Camo sniper to a vantage point and advance with the Myrmidons, using smoke as a cover to get them closer to the enemy. The smoke also supports the Deva (who can see through it with MSV lv 2). The Doctor Proxy sticks around the Deva for ARO support and to regain their wound (usually under smoke) if the enemy manages to land them. With eight orders this becomes a very active turn centric elite list where the goal is to hit hard and fast.

I think I have a nice synergy going, but five corpses and the potential AD troop going after my Netrods might be a bit rough.

Thanks, anon. Was looking for these when the site was down.

>>8121298
Not sure if I'd take PostHum in 150pts, it's good, but for 2 models you only get 1 order, and in small games it actually counts. Also, if you're not arming the myrmis with EXP CCW you're (IMO)missing the fun. I'd also think about taking Naga with MonoMInes instead of the Posthum, but apart from that seems solid.

>>8121298
I would probably drop the Post-Human for something more substantial, as you're heavy on rather fragile models.

Also, pray to whatever god AI:s worship that you don't face Haqqislam, because they raep single-wound models, NWI or not.

>>8122495
Every model apart from Deva and Proxy 1 has ODD or TO Camo. Haqq will be hard-pressed to actually HIT the enemy,especially with all the smoke the myrmis produce.

>>8122522
Naffatûn. Millions of them. Also, Odalisques.

Also, Lasiqs will still hit 90% of the time within 36", and when they do, odds are you will die.

All these options are roughly as expensive as Myrmidons, with the Naffatûn costing nearly a third as much.

I was compensating for the low order count with the netrods. What should I take instead of the post-hum, then?

>>8122651
Personally, I would stick some more dudes in there. You don't want to find you have 6 orders and only two models to spend them on, or worse, a Daofei with an HMG popping up in your deployment zone, taking out all your beacons in one fell swoop.

>>8121298
A tiny, little issue. Netrods are AVA 3, not 4.

GROUP1
-----------------
-Miniatures: 9
-Regular Miniatures: 9
-Frenzy Miniatures: 1


Tikbalang SWC: 2 Cost: 80
BULLETEER ARMBOT Spitfire SWC: 1 Cost: 29
GUARDA DE ASSALTO Multirifle+auxbot SWC: 0.5 Cost: 51
MACHINIST SWC: 0 Cost: 15
HEXA combi rifle SWC: 0 Cost: 24
KAMAU Hacker (Hacki Combi Rifle SWC: 0.5 Cost: 28
FUSILIER Lieutenant SWC: 0 Cost: 10
FUSILIER combi SWC: 0 Cost: 10
(x3)PALBOT SWC: 0 Cost: 3
TEUTONIC KNIGHT combi,panzerfaust , EXP CCW SWC: 0 Cost: 44

-----------------------------------------------------


Flee points: 180

Okay, here's a quick PanO list under the new rules. I'd feel safer with Uhlan, but Tiki seems nice cheap option for heavy-hitter.

>a Daofei with an HMG popping up in your deployment zone

Unpossible in this edition. Nothing can infiltrate into enemy DZ...apart from Impersonators I think.

>>8122829
He can still walk in there after infiltrating with that delicious PH 14 since he is camouflaged. But it doesn't really matter. The point was more that AI Beacons are a gamble.

>Naffatûn. Millions of them.
>Implying Deva hidden by smoke or sniper-proxy will let them close.
>Also, Odalisques.
Only work on attacks against her, plus it doesn't work on ODD.
>Also, Lasiqs will still hit 90% of the time within 36"
Lasiq's got BS 12. +3 for range, -6 for ODD or TO, I'm not counting cover to make it easier. It's now BS 9. To hit, you must roll 9 or less on D20, that's...under 50% , nowhere near 90%.

>>8122810
Is there a specific reason for the three palbots? Because I only count three models with STR, and the only other reason I can think of is E/M.

>The point was more that AI Beacons are a gamble.
They are, but they're also a must if fielding PostHums, or you'll find half of that unit useless when the Ghost is locked in the now-dead body without netrod.

Wait.

Is this a miniature game, or a RolePlaying Game?

>>8122955
Redundancy, and I didn't have anything to do with 5pts leftover. For the same reason the teutonic has EXP CCW-palbot plus CCW upgrade=5pts.

>>8123003
Miniatures game, although it DID start it's conceptual life as a RPG.

>>8122931
45% chance to hit. Two shots. 90%. Now you need to make two 12 damage BTS saves, assuming the standard ALEPH score of -3. 1.2 wounds on average. Instant death. Hell even in cover, you have 90% chance of losing one of those saves, making for a total of 54% chance of getting killed with all modifiers included. All this can be done while you're shooting at at extreme range, or at the very least, long range. With a single shot. I don't like them odds.

Yes, they really are that awesome.

Also, you don't "let" Naffatûn get close. They cost ten points a pop. They will get there, because frankly, you don't have the fire- or manpower to stop them.

>45% chance to hit. Two shots. 90%.
That's not how it works, and you know that.

>>8123190
Sure it does. How else would it work? Two tries, each with a 45% chance of success equals a 90% chance of succeeding once.

So, Mathfinity aside, is it just me, or were the Imperial Service Yu Jingers shafted? The Pheasants and Cranes seem very dubious in their use, which leaves the Su-Jian and a bunch of weeaboos for their new stuff.

>>8123227
Learn 2 Statistics. 2 shots at 45% success rate isn't a 90% success rate. It's just under a 70% chance of success by my calculations (which are just multiplying failure rates).

>>8123227
You have two dice, each must roll 9< on D20. Each die has 45% of rolling under that. You have two separate rolls of 45% probability, they do not influence one another in any way. I might not remeber much from statistic, but I'm quite sure of that.

>>8123450
They have shitload of kuangshis, the agents aren't brilliant but but still decent..you have multiple WuMings etc. As usual with sectors, I think the key is proper usage of links-since the lists are very limited in coparison to normal ones, the linking sort of compensates for it.

>>8123485
Next you're going to try to tell me that if I flip two coins, statistically I'll have a 75% chance of getting heads? Your calculations are flawed in this instance, sir, since it is two separate chances, both of which can succeed, and not simply a re-roll.

>>8123587
I was mostly talking about Japan getting the majority of the good stuff.

>>8123589
Well, let's break it down. First, we have the chance of the first shot succeeding and the second failing - that's 45% x 55%, for .2475

Then the chance of the second succeeding and the first failing. Again, 45% x 55%, for .2475

The chance of both succeeding is 45% x 45%, for .2025.

The chance of both failing is 55% x 55%, for .3025.

The total chance of succeeding on at least one shot is found by adding the probabilities of at least one shot succeeding, and comes out to .6975... or just under 70%. Add the failure rate of .3025, and you have 1, so I doubt I've left anything out.

>>8123450

You are not the only one.

From the looks of it, the Pheasant and Crane are seriously overpriced, especially with that useless Mono CCW/MA 3 combo (which looks good only in theory).

No idea why the Dakini was added, since the Celestial Guard are already there, and the Garuda is a crap version of the Tiger. Plus the ninja should have stayed in the JSA list, since they contribute little here.

At least the Imperial Service has the Hsien (pity we can't get a full 5-man team), alongside the Su-Jian. And the lifesaving cheap Kuang Shi (since most of our stuff are expensive). The Celestial Guard are still good, and the new Yao Xie series as well. The characters are decent at least.

Not as thematically distinct as compared to other sectorials, but I suppose future expansions will remedy that.

>>8123622

I dunno, most of the new JSA units seem to have rather short ranged in nature compared to other units.

So is NeoTerra good?

>>8124114

Well, they do have *3* Aquila and 2 Swiss Guard available. That is pretty nasty by themselves, even if there is virtually no forward deployment (sans Garuda) in that list.

>>8124196
Theoretically. But both units are fucking expensive, I mean...mind-boggling 3-models=180pts expensive. And the rest of the units is also on the pricy side,apart from occasional fusilier. I'm sure they'll be downright nasty, but I actually prefer Acontencimento list for sheer offensive power.

>>8124114
>>8124196
>>8124327
I was thinking about running Auxilia FO's and Clippers, with maybe a linked Fusilier team with a FO too. Would that be valid?

>>8124340
Somewhat related: Synchronized Deva + Devabot - are they good?

>>8124356
Auxilia with NWI and better stats. Considering it costs ~24, I'd rather get two aux for it.

>>8124340
Dunno, if enemy brings EVO repater the combo is well and truly fucked, as EVO's in defensive ahcking not only destory the missile, but disrupts the FO for the purpose of GML firing, so you'll have to get out and FO again for it. It't still a nice team, but not as a main killer.

>>8124356

Well, it is only 3/4 pts more to get a mobile heavy flamer on an extra body...

If you have the spare points then go for it. Though don't forget the Deva have a MSV 2/Spitfire variant as well, which makes them a cheaper alternative to the Asura (which has MSV 3).

>>8124548
I think he means the Noeterra option for Deva. In which case MSV2 is redundant because you can take glorious Aquila.

I think Auxilia are good because they're cheap and generate two attacks/order.

>>8124594
Yeah. I was thinking of using a mostly Auxilia force and then dropping a Lieutenant Deva with a devabot in charge.

>>8124738
Terribly squishy. I really dislike monoculture lists, as they lack verisality to counter different threats.

>>8124594

Well true enough, though a MSV 2 Deva is still a cheaper alternative (or addition) to the Aquila (HMG).

>>8124814
I guess. although MSV3 really is so much better than 2 it's worth the double cost.

>>8125223

With BS 15 thrown in, the Aquila is one nasty unit as well. The MSV 3 is just the main reason why they are so popular in pan0/neoterra lists that can afford them. They are almost OP for their cost imo.

>>8125774
I've actually learned to do without MSV at all recently-it does make it harder, but I can afford to take other units, possibly more effective for me.

>>8124738

Lots of bodies true, but yeah it does looks rather squishy (mostly 1 W/STR units with low ARM). And they do not shoot as well (on average) compared to a more traditional pan0 list.

If you can get the Auxbots close enough, the heavy flamers can cause a lot of pain, though it would be problematic to do so without getting all shot up...

Nomads!

>>8126003
Flamers can be irritating, but he's in some serious trouble whenever TAG or HI in any numbers turn up-he can only hope the enemy fails his save before the meat-bags die. And Getting a normal TAG in cover to to die will take some firepower(11 ARM in such case).Enemy brings a Jotum, and pray for crits, as it has 13ARM in cover.

>>8126003
Coordinated actions with e.g. 4 Auxilia+Auxbot combos. Eight moving targets, you get a single ARO. What now?

>>8126193
One aro per each enemy,so I target the auxilias, because the drones are useless without them. I'll kill one or two at the least.

>>8126193
>>8126227
Random thought. Are auxbots big enough to grant cover to the auxilia?

>>8126242
Models do not grant cover. They block los, but they're not terrain, and only terrain gives cover.

>>8126242
From the minis, looks like it. Huh, interesting.

Looks like with proper placement Auxilia 1 could hide behind Auxbot 1 and prevent LoF, wasn't it head or head-sized chunk of torso?

>>8123587

One of the good things of the Imperial Service is their high proportion of linkable units, even if linking some of them are impractical due to costs reasons.

A linked Wu Ming team is interesting, though the only thing that differentiates them from other 'vanilla' HI units are their LGL/Grenades. Useful if able to target the enemy out of LoS. Not too good against Camo-type units directly FoF though.

And yes, the cheap Kuang Shi are great. Especially when most of the other units of the Imperial Service do not come cheap...

>>8126313
except to measure LOF to "dynamically positioned models" you use stand-in of a standard model of the same size, or otherwise poor ninjas would never shoot anything. About the only models that can hide other models are TAGs.

Didn't PanO get smoke in HS? Does NeoTerra have any of these units?

I'd like to see some good use on those Auxilia+Auxbot combos beyond double forward observing for one order.

>>8126446
Yes, they did. Zero-V smoke even. On one unit. Acontencimento one at that. So no, Neoterra does not have smoke.

>>8126313

I am not sure if such a pose would legally allow the Auxilia to have its Auxbot block LoS. The game assumes that said Auxilia is standing up.

If the Auxilia is prone however, then that is another issue, since the 'size' of a prone unit is halved iirc, allowing the smaller Auxbot to legally block LoS.

>>8126478
Prone model's size is equal to the base. Essentially, you're aiming for the base of the model,not actual model then. If you can hide it entirely behind the drone, then yes, youd be unhittable. In all honesty, it serves no purpose whatsoever, but it'd be possible.

>>8126446

If pan0 ever gets smoke (not the 0-V version), then they would very quickly get imbalanced (if getting higher BS cheaply is not bad enough) with all the MSV 2/3 they have access to.

The pan0 unit with access to 0-V smoke is the Guarda de Assalto HI unit (or to be more precise, its version of the Auxbot).

How would Auxilia + Auxbot suppressive fire work? Seems like a good use of an order for me, especially if you're protecting squishies with them.

>>8126601
They're garrison and thus supposed to be defensive troops. They're good support for advancing troops.

Why would people use Moderators from Bakunin? They just seem... weak?

>>8126769

Mainly because they are cheap really. If (mostly) used as Order Generators, the lower the price the better.

If one is using the Bakunin list, then they are the only such Order Generator available anyway.

While their other options are usable, there are usually better fighters out there, though their support options (e.g. Marker and Medikit) are somewhat decent if one can use them.

>>8126656

Considering the short range of their weapons, they would have to actively follow (or even lead) the advance in order to use said weapons. This is not usually a good thing if they end up exposed.

As a defensive unit, their effective range is again limited, and thus outmanoeuvred if not defending an important point, and even then they can get outshot in many cases.

Still, if the Auxilia can get both suppressive fire templates on a unit unfortunate enough to get caught (especially Impersonators), then yes it would be interesting, but don't count on it happening too often.

>>8126513

Ah yes, true enough I suppose.

Just wondering, how is the fluff from the Human Sphere book?

Anyone care to give a short summary?

Japs get FOUR Oniwaban!?

>Link troops
How is this a good idea again!?

>>8129858

To summarise...

Basically, when in a Link Team, the members get plenty of bonuses depending on how many members the group has. In addition, all members perform the same action (if applicable) with just one Order.

When the team has 3+ members, the B value of all weapons is increased by 1.
With 4+ members, a +3 WIP bonus to Discover stuff and Sixth Sense L2 is granted.
With 5 members, a +3 BS bonus applies.

All bonuses are cumulative.

Now, on the Active Turn, said bonuses apply only to the Team Leader, while the bonuses apply to everyone in the Team in the Reactive Turn.

Depending on the troops involved, Linking up can make them very dangerous indeed, especially on the defensive. Also, Impetuous/Frenzied Troops become Non-Impetuous. There are limits of course, the Team has to be close together, and killing the Leader automatically breaks the Team. But Linking up can be very effective if used right.

>>8129666

Well, they are not Impersonators like the Hassassin Fiday or Speculo Killers, the target can get lucky and kill the Oniwaban in one ARO. Any MSV 2+ troops can make life difficult for them as well.

I'm making a 300pts hassassin list for under 80€ and is this list any good.

MUYIB Lieutenant
(x2)MUYIB Doctor
LASIQ Viral Rifle
(x3)LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle
FIDAY Boarding Shotgun, EXP CCW
FIDAY Antipersonnel Mines, AP CCW
AL-DJABEL Viral CCW

Viral weapons are now god tier weapons if I understand them correctly. Sort of DA that works on BTS instead of A and if only 1 wound model kills them outright. And I like the idea to possibly link my Lasiqs for that extra burst and sixth sense level 2 so then they can dominate the battlefield by climbing high. and the Fiday can take care of annoying stuff with a coordinated order.

>>8129666

Actually 3 Oniwaban and 1 Oniwaban character.

Rather expensive to play all 4 at the same time, not to mention that you will be crippled in total Orders until they are revealed.

>>8131200
That does seem quite overpowered compared to normal armies who don't get it. Five linked fusiliers vs five normal fusiliers?

>>8132178

Not an expert in Haqqislam, but having 2+1 Hassassin Fiday units is going to be a nightmare for your opponent, especially with all that Smoke they (and the Lt. Muyib) will be throwing around.

And yes, Viral weapons got a major boost in the final version of the HS rules.

>>8132497

Sending 5 unlinked fusiliers (or the equivalent LI) against anything is not usually a good idea, even with coordinated orders. There are better fighters out there.

5 linked fusiliers (or the equivalent LI) can potentially pump out a lot of damage. However, they do not specifically gain any bonus to their ARM/BTS or Dodging when under fire. This makes them just as vulnerable to anyone who can pick them off one at a time. As they have to be fairly close together, templates (Blast and Teardrop) are also dangerous as well. Their only defence then remains their bonuses to B and BS when firing in ARO.

This effect applies to any link team really. Also, with tougher linkable units, the points/SWC needed does add up as well.

>>8132709
I suppose the close proximity is an issue.

By the way, do Guided Missile Launchers against Forward Observed target place the explosion too? If I would target the centermost model in a linked unit with FO and then guided missile it, would his nearby friends get hit too?

>>8133260

In a nutshell, yes. The Guided Missile performs the same way as that of a 'normal' Missile. As such, if you mark and hit the centermost figure (EXP and AP effects) of a closely packed group, then the nearby troops, under the blast template, will be hit (EXP only) as well.

Also, close proximity goes both ways for a Link Team. After all, many weapons do have a +3 bonus to BS at relatively close ranges...

Gentlemen,
I want to play Aleph, have not had any games as of yet. I built this list as it's doable with the mini releases up to March (aside from the Devabot- what to proxy?)
Will I get raped in the face or is it ok?

298 pts, 6SWC

Asura MR, nanopulser (lt)
Deva, Spitfire
Deva, CR nanopulser
+ Devabot
Naga Hacker
Naga Sniper
Dakini Tacbot, CR
Dakini Tacbot, CR
Garuda, HMG
Garuda, HMG

>>8133350
Linked Teams still seem like a powerful extra option that normal armies can't compete with. Is losing unit options due to Sectoral Armies such a big deal, especially when you get higher AVA elsewhere, as well as special troops?

>>8132497
Bear in mind, only sectorials get that ability and only on limited choice of troops, because they need it. Sectorials have seriously limited unit choice compared to normal lists, so they have link to compensate.
And your model does get only 1 aro against a whole grioup, but there's nothing saying you must target the leader. In his active turn, ARO against the non-acting model in the group(if he's shooting) so he will lose bonuses conferred by them(and have one model aro the leader, so he has to FtF too)

>>8133427
>aside from the Devabot- what to proxy?
Auxbot?

>>8133427
I'd swich the deva and naga around-make deva the hacker, and give naga either minelayer skill or mono-mines. Apart from that the army seriously lacks staying power(so..many W1 models), but seems like it could work if you're careful.

>>8133457
Oh- they are the same!
Thx anon (now... how to get one cheaply is another thing...)

They re-upped the PDFs on the official site if anyone's intrrested.

>>8133862
But the forums probably ate the time-warp...

I don't know if it is just me, but my downloaded copy of the HS rules pdf seem to take a long time to load every time I scroll up/down the file. This compared to all their previous downloads.

Still an interesting read, though with all those previews from before, there aren't many surprises really...

Also, really cool pic they placed there.

>>8133911
All or almost all topics seem to be back to normal.

>>8133952

Nope, the topics from a few days back still seem to be missing. Hope they come back though, there were some interesting stuff posted then.

>>8133948
not just you. I supposed hat they were going to take it down to fix that up.

I need to remember to post my ORA mistakes to the forums when I get home.

>>8133948
So it's not only my old shit of a computer's fault? I susupect they just uploaded the to-the-printing copy with all the doodahs rather than optimized one. And certainly not printer-friendly. Oh well, I'm going to print it at a shop anyway so it won't be me fighting with that.

>>8134028
Yeah, it's 26 pages or something but it's going to pages 158 and so on.

>>8134243
That's actually the same way they did (leaving the numeration from the book...which IS useful for rules discussions actally) with rulebook pdf, but this time it seems they didn't try to decrease depth or whatever the hell you do with pdf's to be easier on memory.

>>8134274
Well, there's printed page numbers and pdf page numbers.

I've been looking at Nomad sectorials lately, but linked mobile brigada seems a bit too expensive to be worth it. What are your thoughts?

>>8134243

Well, the file does seem to be directly from the HS rulebook itself, so it follows the HS pg numbers (the rules are near the back of the book after all the fluff).

>>8134292
Dunno, even 3 MB's will be nasty when you take one with HMG, and in ARO they'll be fucking nightmare. Although truth be told, I think Correg's strenght lies in AD:troops not that one HI.

>>8134292

Well, considering that the mobile brigada is basically a generic standard HI with Courage and light flamers, and considering that the Corregidor list has all those AD units and *Intruders*, I agree they would be rarely used in most instances.

>>8134333
>>8134371
Yeah, AVA 5 Intruders, wtf? I doubt I'd run more than three, no matter how good they are.

I seriously doubt they expect you use that AVA to the end, it's left as a possibility. Although killing those 5 intruders would be just a bit hard considering their high BS , camo and all the shit.

>>8134391

It's a damn good thing they aren't linkable. They would be a nightmare to deal with then.

Still, the Intruders are easily one of the most popular of Nomad units. Whole lists have been made around them iirc.

>>8134391
Because few people play with huge amount of points. They balance the game to up to 1k points or so.

>>8134453
Wat? 1k? The game's practically bogged down at 500pts, I seriously doubt anyone ever played 1k.

>>8134458
The developers do, but as I say I doubt they do it more than for balancing. Usually a big game is played with 300 points.

>>8134468
Well, I guess it's good to know they test it up to that size rather than just leave it at 500 and call it a day.

>>8134496
They mention 600 pts games are very big, take a lot of time and can get tedious with AROs easily provoking dozen rolls, etc.

The miniatures seem a bit expensive, but I guess you'd be able to afford a small army under 100 euros?

>>8134795
You'll be able to afford a fully-functional force for that money. Obviously a bit limited in options, but you'll easily construct 300pts list and have enough cash to buy some additional models too, even if you buy a TAG.

Speaking of tags, someone posted this rather nice diorama of anathematica and gujia on the official forum.

Is this on /rs/ ?

>>8134889
The OP link? You can get it now from infinitygame.com, along with all rules they've released so far.

The first edition rulebook which has fluff can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mmumbhtnydy

>>8122425
That Post-Human combo is 43 pts for two bodies which includes a doctor and a TO camo sniper. I think it's a good deal, even in a 150 pt game.

>>8135153
Dunno. I'd rather add 30pts and take fuckwin Asura, but that's just me. Or take the HI proxy in addition, it'll ad *some*survivability to the list.

>>8135398
I'd like to think a doc adds to the survivability of the unit in general.

>>8135535
Not without palbots. Running a doc to where a model just died usually means he'll be shot at by whatever killed said model.

>>8135550
B'sides, docs help when the model is unconcious. heavy armor helps to avoid being unconcious.

>>8135572
I haven't read the rules but wasn't NWI that you stay fighting after you suffer a wound?

>>8135807
Yes, but Myrmidons don't have NWI. And if you do use NWI, another wound taken kills you outright with no chance of healing.

>>8135887
Myrmidons should always be able to smoke a dropped ally so the doc can run in. Since there's a mess-up in that list, toss a Palbot for the Doc instead of one of the Netrods.

Can someone give me a brief pros/cons overview of the factions in Infinity?

>>8136018
PanO: higher BS, lower willpower than usual, wide choice of TAGs, straightforward tactics

YJ:close-quater army, with higher CC and lots of short-ranged weaponry, best choice of power armors in the game, some very nice infiltrators too.

Ariadna: very low tech, but plenty of AP weapons, some cheap and fast troops and a lot of camouflaged models to choose from.

Haqqislam: great LI choices, very decent medium infantry, very good doctors, quite a few units with regeneration, a bit lacking in heavy weapons. Higher than usual willpower.

Nomads: dirty, sneaky fuckers with lots of wierd toys to annoy enemies. very good choice of medium infantry and infiltrators, very nice air-drop troops, a bit lacking in armor departament.

Combined Army: evil aliens, highly specialized, acces to a few more advanced weapons than humans, high point costs.

ALEPH: high point costs, durable and fast, but lack heavy or long-ranged weapons at all, very suseptible to hacking.

>>8136242
I'd add that Alephs generally have great stats overall.

>>8136242
>>8136356
Are Aleph more tricky or straightforward? They seem to have a lot of gadgets and robots and stuff.

>>8136554
All armies have potential to do both, depending purely which units withing them you'll take.

Fuck yeah, the flash army builder site is being worked on too.

>>8136711
Which one?
This one?: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/fusionweb/infinity/index.html

As a Combined Army player, I can't help but feel a bit pissed at ALEPH. I mean, it has access to units that I already had access to, only better.

Asura are Charontids. Myrmidons are improved Daturazi that aren't impetuous and with better survivability and weaponry. They get better line infantry, better hackers and better doctors/engineers.

I mean, sure, I got loads of new troops including Terminator Monkey and the fuckwin Anathematic, but really, it just feels like my shtick's been kind of intruded upon.

Corvus Belli, I am disappoint.

>>8137024
It might seem that way on the surface, but ALEPH doesn't have half the weapon options you have access to, so stop being a whiny cunt.

Also, what's up with Suryat not being veterans? They are fucking klingons! According to the fluff, even regular Vanguard infantry should be more experienced than any Ariadnan troop, so the least they could do is give the veteran assault infantry some credit.

>>8137153
It's called game balance, which infinity actually cares about?

>>8137390
Dem eyes.

>According to the fluff, even regular Vanguard infantry should be more experienced than any Ariadnan troop

The fluff makes them sound like Imperial Japanese regulars. Superior insisting on killing off their troops does not superior soldiers make.

I'm gonna pick up a Haqqislam army. Any UK players?

>>8137481
Why hello there. How are you doing /tg/?

>>8138532
Official forum is always good place to start looking I think. I do know of a few british players, but have zero idea where they're from.

>>8138543
I like your eyes, they're pretty. Will you let me have them?

>>8137390
So, make them more expensive. Or don't write fluff saying they are so horny for war they actually go apeshit (pun, lol) when there's not a battle raging around them.

Also, if the game is so balanced for points, how come Myrmidons which are blatanly superior to Daturazi in so many ways only cost two points more? And how come ALEPH, which has cheaper troops, gets more AI beacons than the CA? It's like they are intentionally trying to make them superior in every way.

>>8137516
Except the Japanese die. Most Morat are said to actually have survived numerous campaigns.

>>8138891
Maybe... maybe. And what shall I get in return?

>>8138896
ALEPH doesn't have impersonation or other swishsticks CA has.

>Also, if the game is so balanced for points, how come Myrmidons which are blatanly superior to Daturazi in so many ways only cost two points more?

You do know the costs are made using a formula? Morats pay through their ass for Morat special rule, and datzis also get Coma, Martial Arts 4 rather than 3 and one more point of PH(which is rather important in CC troops). It all does add up.

As to background...did you read everyone elses background? Every fucking unit is god's own fucking stormtrooper. Aquila Guard? Supposedly best-trained officers of the Sphere? They don't get ANY bonus to command, not even fucking Strategos 1.

>>8138944
Well, not the eyes obviously, I am a harvester after all. but who knows, maybe a career of evil?

>>8138896
People rage just because I put an Avatar on the table in 300pts. ALEPH doesn't have sepsitor which makes CA so special and extremely nasty against most opponents. And you can't compare pts costs unit/unit because the thing is how stuff works in the whole army.

>>8138984
Then it's a flawed formula since everyone seems to agree that Morat (besides Daturazi, which are now obsolete due to lol Myrmidons) simply aren't worth it because they're paying out the ass for their special rules. Not to mention Zhanshi being pretty much shit. Or Imperial Agents. Or anyone forced to pay for CC without having the million abilities necessary to get there.

Also, lol at 1 point extra damage in CC when the enemy gets to take EXP CCW, forcing three saves with every hit instead.

And at least only geniuses like Sun Tze, aspects of the EI and Saladin actually get strategos. They don't give them to blatantly less trained troops.

>>8139080
>And you can't compare pts costs unit/unit because the thing is how stuff works in the whole army.
Actually, yes you can. There's supposedly a formula used to make everything fair. Hence all remotes cost the same. This isn't 40k.

>Then it's a flawed formula since everyone seems to agree that Morat (besides Daturazi, which are now obsolete due to lol Myrmidons) simply aren't worth it because they're paying out the ass for their special rules.

And Ghulams are overpriced because they're forced to pay for light shotguns, which are probably the most useless weapons ever on normal infantry. Shit happens, but two units over-priced out of few hundred is not a bad result at all. Alternative is assigning costs by the ear, and that never ends well.

>>8139109
I know there is one. I love infinity because it's so balanced. But even with the arguments against him, he won't stop about the myrmidom supremacy over datarazi.

>>8139080
So the Sepsitor, which is on less than five models in the entire army, makes it balanced? Also, the Avatar is inferior to Achilles anyway.

>>8139158
Or, you know, acknowledging that said formula is flawed and fix it.

>Also, the Avatar is inferior to Achilles anyway.
<insert maniacal laughter here>

>>8139176
Actually, it's not just the Daturazi, it's that ALEPH has basically taken the concept of an army of expensive specialists and made it better. For instance:

As much flak as the Tactbots are getting, at least they don't cost 16 points for a BS 11 model, and they are more survivable and faster than Vanguard to boot.

Dasyus are Malignos with NWI and a higher chance of actually succeeding at Infiltration rolls that somehow manage to actually be CHEAPER! Same goes for Nagas/Shrouded to some extent, though in that case the Shrouded actually is slightly cheaper.

The Asura is a Charontid with shittier weapons, but still essentially a copy of the CA's most unique unit. And they aren't forced to pay for monofilament CCWs.

The Post-Human can fulfill the roles of the Medchanoid with two Mk.1 proxies for 1 point more, with the added benefit of essentially getting a Slave Drone for free and added survivability and higher likelihood of succeeding at skill checks. So essentially it does the same job, only much better.

They also get more AI Beacons despite having cheaper troops, something that makes no sense for a supposedly balanced game.

>>8139192
Inferior in what? All I hear is "Points! Points! Points! My units cost more points! Make them cheaper!", instead of the results of using them on battle, and if there are different tactics.

Or even better, trying a well made IE army against an Aleph ones and seeing if they are actually two different armies that work in different ways.

>>8139434
See >>8139380

ALEPH pays less for equal or higher ability than CA models. It's like they watched the CA, realized what they were doing wrong and then made an army that doesn't have to pay for shit like the Morat or Shasvastii special rules, which are just plain awful unless you were losing in the first place, making them cheaper while still being better at their job.

>>8139380
Aleph to me looks as more specialized, and thus risker, army than IE. Try them a bit and see for yourself.

>>8139561
I'm not sure I follow you. They fill nearly the exact same niches, with the Post Human being able to fill several, as the CA but pay less for their models. If anything, the added bodies mean there is less risk involved.

>>8139561
Post human means one order, three bodies and useless ARO. If I read it correctly, they don't seem to be able to shot in ARO, just use abilities that don't require LOS.

Aleph lacks weapons variety, and their troops will require always similar tactics. Why do you think they have more AI nodes? Because it's very important for their post-humans. Destroy them and they'll suffer more, and lose important orders.

And that goes with all their units. They are less adaptable. Cheaper, yet with generic weapons and skills even more centered in a kind of use. Play in a way they don't expect and see what happens.

Alright, so how does the CA sectorials perform against ALEPH (or anyone else)?

>>8139685
Generic weapons? The only advantage I see the CA having is the Sepsitor and Plasma Rifle, and those are mounted on three models in the entire army.

As for skills, they have access to nearly identical skills compared to the CA, except for the race specific ones, two of which are of questionable use and one which is explicitly negative.

The point being that the CA also suffers from being specialized, but pay more for said specialization.

And the point with the Post-Human was that it makes for a better doctor/engineer than the Medchanoid for the same points value, which is another example of forcing CA players to pay out the ass for useless shit (seriously, when will I ever need both an engineer *and* a doctor at the same time).

There is a reason there's a concensus the CA is the worst faction released.

>>8139843
>There is a reason there's a concensus the CA is the worst faction released.
They all look like rubber mask aliens

>>8139380
>two Mk.1 proxies for 1 point more,
I think Mk. 1 bodies are AVA 1, so you can't have a both doctor and engineer body.

>The Post-Human can fulfill the roles of the Medchanoid with two Mk.1 proxies for 1 point more,

Except it can't take two of the same proxy.

>The Asura is a Charontid with shittier weapons, but still essentially a copy of the CA's most unique unit

Swiss Guard and Hac tao are far more similiar, and you don't hear either side crying about it. At last CA is in the same situation as all other armies.

Speaking of shitty weaponry, you somehow do not raise the point that ALEPH units are armed FAR more lightly than ANY other army. You want HMG? Sure, you can have it...on shitfuckexpensive TAG, or on shitty drones. Heaviest weapon readily availible is the fucking spitfire. Unlike CA ALEPH has to get close. At the same time those weapons are also relatively weak, so against heavy armor ALEPH is at an disadvantage. It's cheapest normal LI costs 21pts. Cheapest combat unit costs 13pts, but it's a fucking drone, so it can't do half of the things normal models do, is suceptible to hacking and it's only real advantage is speed.

I have played a few games with the aleph, and talked with people who played against it, and no one who actually played thought it was overpowered. INCLUDING CA PLAYERS, just to be clear.

>There is a reason there's a concensus the CA is the worst faction released.

Stop speaking words, they make no sense. I have no idea where your "consenus" was but apparently most people weren't notified of it. Fuck, CA is complete nightmare to play against, what with jumping MSVHMG's, fucking shasvastii everywhere that don't even count towards Break, absolutely disgusting charontid+smoke combo, not to mention speculito.

>>8139880
You don't get the point. The problem is they are cheaper than CA. And that means CA should be cheaper, because he plays with that army.

Hassassin Fiday and Oniwaban, how do they compare to the Speculo Killer?

>what with jumping MSVHMG's
Which are also burdened by the shittiest special rule in the game.

>fucking shasvastii everywhere that don't even count towards Break
If you're testing for break, odds are you've already lost anyway.

>absolutely disgusting charontid+smoke combo
Which ALEPH can do too.

>not to mention speculito
AVA 1.

>>8139981
Speculo's better by the virtue of posessing both Monoweapon and Impersonation. Hassasin has imp(but only works on humans,unlike the speculo one), but no Mono, Obiwan has mono, but only infiltration and TO.

>>8140021
So the problems is you have never heard of tactics and just are whining about points. Or maybe you chose the wrong army.

>>8139981
Depends. Fiday suffers from not having access to monofilament CCW and Basic Impersonation being the stupidest skill in the game (Seriously, why are there even levels to this skill?) Though the EXP CCW is actually superior some of the time.

Oniwaban suffers from not having access to Impersonation, which means no squatting in their deployment zone and somewhat lesser protection from discovery. But in everything that matters, it's as good as the Speculo Killer.

>Which are also burdened by the shittiest special rule in the game.

Which I've heard or seen actually having any impact being..oh,right, zero times. I'm sure someone,somewhere has had it actually happen, but after three years I've never seen it.


>absolutely disgusting charontid+smoke combo
>Which ALEPH can do too.
Which doesn't mean it's any less nasty(you were arguing they were the shittiest faction, remeber? Not that others can't do something similiar). If anything, it's way nastier, as Charontid has plasma or HMG.


>not to mention speculito
>AVA 1.

Which makes it weak how? CA has one under-whelming unit in shape of the basic Morat, everything else is just as good as other armie's shit and additionally have wierd rules thrown in to make it more distinct.

>If you're testing for break, odds are you've already lost anyway.
No, the point is CA can take casualties that would cripple any other army, and keep on fighting. Considering how many games end with one or both sides breaking, it's invaluable.

>>8139981

Hassassin Fiday: They have Basic Impersonation only, which works against non-CA enemies normally. Against CA enemies, only the second Discover roll applies. Only have EXP/AP CCW compared to the SK's Mono CCW, but cheaper.

Oniwaban: Better CC stat, MA:4 and Sup. Infiltration. However, no smoke, and no Impersonation. With TO Camo, one lucky ARO can kill said oniwaban. MSV 2+ troops can also target him w/o shooting penalties once he is Discovered. Also more expensive.

>>8140103
Actually, the problem here seems to be you failing to acknowledge that ALEPH has access to the same tactics due to having virtually the same options available to them.

I'll give you the weapons, though. ALEPH has slightly shorter range.

>>8140190
I wouldn't dare to say an "only assault rifles" army has the same range of tactics than another with all the range of weapons plus alien ones. At least not on Infinity.

And also, they keep having several different units. CA has lots of unique units, even if a few are similar to Aleph, just with more options and possibilities.

Speaking of stolen shtick, I really don't like how CA niggered Panoceania's forte, the TO TAG. Go find your own tactics, stupid aliens!

>>8140367
Yeah, that was sort of a dick move. And PanOceania are intruding on Yu Jing territory by getting incredible amounts of heavy infantry. Seems the lines of who gets what are beginning to blur. Perhaps they should implement something like MtG's color pie for the factions?

>>8140454
That's actually not a terrible idea.

>>8140454
I was being sarcastic actually, I think that the new book, if anything, made the lines more distinct then they were. PanO did get a few HI's, but apart from one that gets auxbot, they're all very normal, while YJ got a shitload of specialized, or just plain better, HI's. Both nomads and haqq got units that further improve on their chosen specialities(E/Warfare, drones, or LI's and biology). CA got a lot of dangerous toys, quite a few units and technologies nobody else has, And PanO's TAG and overall technical superiority remained largely unchallanged, which I wasn't so sure of in the months before the book's release, when everyone else seemed to get cool shit, and PanO got nothing but old unit's new options in minis.

>>8140454

The forces in the Human Sphere are living in pretty close proximity, I would imagine arms races and military/industrial espionage are pretty rife, good luck keeping (non-alien) tech to yourself

>>8140535
Real-Life similiarities in my wargame? It's extra-heretical!

>>8140546

>Real-Life similiarities in my wargame? It's extra-heretical!

here, have a filthy, dirty, sub-human

>>8140535
>>8140546
Still doesn't make for a very interesting wargame if everyone has access to the same stuff.

>>8140612
Still, hands down my most favourite miniatures game out of ??? years of gaming. :D

>>8140612
It makes for the best wargames. Any poor shmuck can use an army that yells "we for close combat" and the other 'we for standan and shootan". When armies use similiar weapons and equipment, its the doctrinal diferrences that come into play, and really make thins intresting. Take FOW- infantry from both Aliies and Germans is quite similiar, what really makes germans different is their training level, and distribution of heavy weapons that differs from the allies. Infiniy has the same thing going-most armies have similiar stuff, but on different units. MSV on HI will be used differently than on a LI, and in truth, even when you get "blue on blue" matches with the same army, the opponents rarely have similiar lists at all. But I've been told I'm wierd about this.

>>8140454

Yeah, it sucks to see that pan0 actually getting *more* HI releases (with 7) in HS compared to Yu Jing (with 6).

Come to think of it, I'm surprised the CA didn't get the TO TAG earlier...

Can I cry for not having more TO on Nomads? (Not that I think the army needs them, but I can whine anyway)

>Still doesn't make for a very interesting wargame if everyone has access to the same stuff.

I can't hear you over the sound of how everyone has access to every weapon and component I wield.

>>8141414
They just might get some more with tunguska in the next book(or so I guess).

>>8140690

Nah, I think you are mostly correct in this regard.

After all, even with the limited choices within the sectorial lists, there is going to be a fair amount of variance as well.

>>8142431
I think he was being ironic. Or something.

>>8142431

I think that, at most, there would be only one more new unit with TO Camo. It is fairly uncommon to begin with.

Just to break the silence, what do you think of this little squad, from(according to general consensus) the worst army in the game?

250 points:
Avatar lt. - 152
Vector HMG - 35
Kurgat AUTOCAN - 37
^Drone - 3
Daturazi CHAIN - 14
2x Imetron - 8

Also thought about droping autocan on my engineer and replacing daturazi with a noctifer w/ spitfire, would that make sense?

>>8142568
Well, there are factions with no shortage of it(mainly CA and panO).

>>8142618
Imetron's are..well, a bit risky with 8PH, not sure if just taking a seed soldier wouldn't be better.

>>8142630

And Yu Jing to a certain extent as well.

>>8142689
To be honest, if had the points to take him, I would.

>>8142689

At least they provide cheap Orders. Assuming they actually reach the field at the correct place of course.

>>8142721
RIght, For some reason I though he costs 11, and he costs 14, my mistake. ANyway, I'm thinking...you really want to keep that engineer alive to support your huge fat tag-is there any sense in arming him with Autocan if he's not supposed to fight too much?

Wrong pic, have an Avatar.

>>8142774
Not much really, I took it on impulse, hence my question if droping it on him and replacing datur with noctifer with spitfire is a better deal?

Possibly. Noctifers are certainly nasty, and if you took Spitfire version you'd have 10 spare points. Drop one imrod,and you have enough for a seedsoldier. drop both, and you have 18pts, enough for one more daturazi.

>>8142911

If there is one problem with that list, it would be a serious shortage of Orders to go around. Especially in the initial phase of the battle before the appearance of the Vector/Noctifer.

>>8139158

I suspect that the 'light-shotgun effect' also affects other Haqqislam units as well. Not as obvious as the Ghulam, but still there nevertheless.

And yeah, Yu Jing having to pay extra for useless CC isn't fun either...

Just asking, for those who have tried out the sectorial army list, how do they compare to the vanilla lists?

Is it worthwhile to play them?