This idea is STILL BAD and you should FEEL WORSE.

Why would they allow Salarian STG access?

>>8878883
It's a good concept.

>>8878903
Because they're the #1 spies, and source of information on outside world and threats to the council. If you need something to be found out, and need it without anyone knowing then send in the STG.

>>8878966
But that wouldn't work against EP humanity.

"The Turian peacekeeping fleet is currently ballooning to unsustainable levels. Whatever trauma that the Turians felt after the war with humanity has blinded them to reason and logic."

"43 dreadnoughts have been manufactured, with a further seventeen planned. The Hierarchy claims that with the new reports of geth infringing on the Terminus systems, that war is inevitable and they should be ready, but they simply do not understand the fact that their fleet will strain the already limited supplies of element zero to their very limits."

"Oh sure, of course the turian projections show that they have enough to cover engine and barrier needs for their fleet- ignoring, of course, the increased drain that mines and transports will put on that. You spend element zero to get element zero, councilor, I don't need to remind you of the panic of 2170."

"Why go to you? Well, though I represent a subject species of the Hierarchy, we are also mindful of our position in council. We always try to do our best to ensure that citadel space's economy functions after all- we take our responsibilities very seriously."

"Why yes, thank you. I would be only too glad to discuss this proposal further in the Tower. My people shall be very pleased. The files, along with all keys to necessary sources, shall be forwarded to your office immediately."

-Din Korlack, Volus Ambassador to the Citadel

It would be pitiably easy for TransHumanity to leave the prison. All they have to do is cook up a few council race biomorphs, chock them full of people, and bam! Instant jailbreak. Store as many as you can into a single body and dump them into the Turian fleet, Citadel systems, everywhere possible.

Then collectively hit the "off" switch. Watch shit go down.

"It's fair to say that humanity is the greatest threat we've ever faced."

"Please, don't look at me like that. I'm well aware of what people have often said of my tendency for hyperbole, but Sintsani can take his smug insinuations and burst his eyes with for all I care, I've BEEN in Sol, and I can tell right now that the only way to get across the amount of worry that the humans fill me with would be to report in person screaming at the top of my lungs."

"We requested access on behalf of the Citadel Society for the Preservation of Enkindler Sites- bullshit, I realize, but then again, they did too. They wanted to avoid slighting us- probably out of a sense of patronizing pride come to think of it."

"In any case, we managed to get through the Charon relay just fine. Had biomorphs escorting us the whole way. We're making our way through to Mars- their fourth planet from the star. That's their main prothean ruin. The whole time, they're pointing out station after station, site after site. They've filled their solar system almost to capacity. Remember the krogan? Remember our worries with the genophage breaking down? This is NOTHING compared to the krogan. The krogan need planets after all- right well, I'm getting to that."

"We're in orbit around Mars when suddenly, one of the humans gets a bright idea. 'Let's show them Earth,' he says. They explain on the way there, that it's there homeworld, the loss, all of that-"

"The before and after is atrocious. I don't know how else to say it, other than...Well, it looked like a Prothean ruin. A civilization at its height, beyond ours even- I recall seeing an orbital elevator- just...Devastated. What was once green and blue, a picturesque garden world now like Tuchanka, or Feros."

"We knew this, I know. But it's their reactions. The way they were stating it. Having seen the technology they hold, and the attitude they have, I think it's quite clear what they were telling me."

"'Here is our birthplace, our creche. Our homeworld, that we spent four thousand years praising and admiring for its beauty. We have rendered it to ash and ruin. What do you think we'll do to your homes that we know nothing, and care not a whit for?'"

"They're showing us warnings sir. But I'm positive that we're not getting the full picture here. They're hiding something. And I worry that they're not trying particularly hard because they want a reason to act against us."

"Of course I'm sure we'll win. I'm just not sure if I'm willing to pay the price that will mean our victory."

"I recommend follow up missions of course. But only the very best, and with the very quietest."

-Captain Milon, Salarian STG

This was a fun idea before FUCK YEA HUMANITY ruined it.

>>8879348
carry on

>>8879348
I really doubt that humanity would invite a galactic council investigation and threaten to burn their homeworlds.

That's just stupid. As is stands, humanity simply doesn't have the industry required to launch an offensive. Sure, they could probably defend the TEZ, but it'd be hard to put an attack fleet together.

Even if Humanity has superior technology, wont they still get owned because they are going up against a GALACTIC scale enemy force?

That is a truly huge amount of resources which far exceeds what Humanity would have access to, even if humanity could put it to better use.

"The recent spate of human style clothing and accessories that has taken the galaxy by storm has been spear headed by asari designer Nyxsoni; who anticipated the radical cultural shift of the galaxy to her credit and fame: despite criticisms from more conservative corners of the galaxy, the famously eccentric designer is flippant and unashamed."

"'The real core of these slights does not offend me; it's directed at the galaxy at large. Who can not feel sympathy for the human, for her situation? Bound by the minds of lessers afraid of her potential, and wishing to break free. If someone has a problem with my designs, I would suggest they direct their complaints to the people. I haven't been buying my own clothes here.'"

"Ouch! That was the famous designer, Nyxsoni, whose new line 'PostSentient' comes out next financial quarter. Meanwhile, in the Terminus Systems-"

-Council Galactic News

>>8879382
>>8879423
A single paranoid hyperbolic salarian a consensus does not make.

>>8879423
Yes, and assuming every species thinks differently and yet were still able to form a galactic alliance for mutual benefit means that their social evolution is off the charts... I think.

"We lost the first contact war with humanity."

"This is a truth that must be acknowledged."

"Despite our history, despite the Hierarchies many services to the Council and the galaxy, despite saving them from the krogan: doubt permeates."

"The reason, councilor, that we are building so many dreadnoughts is not in preparation of war, or to scramble for wounded pride- it is to regain the confidence of the galaxy. To us falls the burden of being the military arm of a council designed to defuse military conflict, to protect a galaxy that has put war behind it."

"The reason peace is kept is because of the unspoken promise that those that breach the peace shall face the might of the undefeated Turian Fleet- well, once, undefeated."

"So. Let us build our obsolete models. Let us have our military parades, let us stamp our feet and beat our chests for a time. Let us think, and hope that this pain, this stain, this failure on our part can fade away, before we are tested again."

"Because either way, I promise you, we will be better prepared next time."

-Councilor Valen, representative of the Turian Hierarchy upon the Council

"Really, in spite of a long history of stupid shit that the Council has done, the TEZ has to be the worst. For both sides."

"On the one hand, you have the rest of the galaxy fidgeting and freaking the fuck out about those weird ass aliens on the other side that have scary super computers and managed to fuck up their precious Turian fleets. The less they see of us, the more they can think of us as boogeymen than thinking people, or sentients, or whatever the fuck they call us."

"Meanwhile, on our side, we've got everyone all amped up and ready to go for getting some hot alien tail and cruising the stars and seeing what those elcor'd sound like yelling the Clash- when suddenly, it turns out the entire rest of the galaxy decided to flip us the fuck off. Now, every asshole with a vision of setting himself up as grand viceroy general of Bleeblox 3 is itching at us to go to war, now, while we still have a chance. It doesn't help the fact that the aliens seem to be lagging behind- in some ways."

"I'd like to go ahead and point out these guys have been doing FTL for fucking millenia, been tooling around with kinetic barriers whatever that's called, and have these things called biotics- jedi shit basically. We're sketching out the details, but with the entire council watching everyone that comes and goes, we still have no fucking clue how it all works, and more importantly, how to set it up. Sure, we've still got pieces of turian ship. But you go back in time and give caveman Zog a lamp, you're not going to get light because caveman Zog sadly does not have an electric grid."

"And don't get me started on all the assholes that want to go infiltrating the Citadel in custom morphs. First of all, great plan, let's just do Invasion of the Body Snatchers in real life, no big. Second of all, we have no idea how they talk. 'But Unca Z!' I hear you dribble, 'How did we manage to hash out the diplomatic deal in the first place then? Didn't we have the turian alphabet then?' Yeah, we have the turian alphabet. We've got xenolinguists who have spent centuries studying that shit. We could win the FUCK out of a turian spelling bee."

"Problem is, language isn't just an alphabet. And those clever blue bitches know that. Really, a fucking coup there that shows we shouldn't dismiss them as hot pieces of tail- translators are really common. Really, really common. Everyone has a translator- so that means the Elcor can speak to the volus, the volus can speak to the batarian, and the batarian can speak to lil' old us."

"They don't bother speaking their original language at us or anyone else that isn't their species. The diplomatic meeting was the creepiest fucking thing when we realized as they turned away and left speaking hodge podge, was that the translators had been filling in inflections, meanings, double entendres, everything. The xenolinguists entered feeling like badasses for cracking the entire basis of a different culture and left feeling like someone had done their first grade math homework. Then, given maybe a year, they had sent us a copy of the translation software with our own words in it, wanting us to fill in errors. Nearly perfect."

bump
Please continue

"That's the beauty of it. We go in with a turian morph, the translators will sniff us out. Either somebody's going to slip up and do something human, and the translator will fuck up, or the turians are going to wonder why the turian sounds so retarded, speaking through his translator to his friends. We have nearly no concept of what turians actually sound like. All we've heard is refined and distilled lingual mash from the programs made by those smiling blue bitches."

"So, yeah. Panacea machines, awesome. Infomorphs would throw them for a fucking loop. And don't even get me started on their nanotech lag- but you don't understand. Every time we posture and look smug, they freak out and get a bit better. They sharpen their knives, look at the Relay 314 battle, and calculate another scenario that we take. We can not go to war. We may win the tech war, but watch to the Romans whining to the Germans that they had the most advanced roads, listen to the confused cries of British rifles stabbed by Zulu spears, look at thousands of history books where the advanced and mighty have been stomped into the ground by the stupid and numerous, and remember that."

-Zack, Argonaut

>>8880048

Poor Caveman Zog.

>>8880048
poor zog. all zog wants do is read, but zog no see.

zog is sad.

>>8880097
>British rifles stabbed by Zulu

You know who won at the end, right?

>>8880131
I'm sure the spear filled fellows cheered post mortem when they heard that the piece of Africa they died for was now vaguely claimed by their government.

>>8880164
And that piece of Africa is still shit to this day.
Britain on the other hand.... okay, you're right.

>>8880164

Yeah, thats actually the British afterlife. Englishmen cheering about what great things their country has done, while the Welsh all fap over Catherine Zeta-Jones, and the Scotsmen break out claymores and go scurrying about, lopping off heads.

Question.

Is there a 1d4chan Article on all this?

And can I get involved in making this?

>>8880218
I am no sad that I'm not from the British isles.

>>8880097
>look at thousands of history books where the advanced and mighty have been stomped into the ground by the stupid and numerous, and remember that."

And every single one of them tells how that advanced civilization later crushed the stupid brutes. Except for the Romans but they were already dead as an empire before the Germans attacked.

Hello?
Is there a 1d4chan article on this setting?

>>8880309
I don't think so... There's just been a bunch of threads on suptg.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8224490/

There's the first.

>>8880277
Germany here, we're still waiting for our revenge against the allies&soviets :(

>>8880277
Zee World War 2 Germans were definitely more advanced than the Soviets.

The problem was, the Soviets were using old, reliable technology while the Germans favored more wunderweapons.

Of course, Germany is still around today, but you can't deny that Nazi Germany was totally crushed and didn't make a comeback.

The same could be said for Napoleon's France- advanced, brilliant, but crushed by logistics and numbers.

>>8880334
Technically you guys did get your revenge. You gave the US all your scientists which helped the US later crush them for you.

>>8880348
But the difference between soviet russia and germany was 10 years of development at best while EP nano technology and AIs are centuries ahead of ME.

>>8880348
That maybe so but don't forget that the Soviets had the help of the British and Americans to back them up. Otherwise they would have been crushed.

>>8880359
That is incorrect, both the Soviets and Americans roughly got half of germany's scientists each.
They just tended to get out of Russia as soon as possible.

>>8880131

and they didnt just win by a little bit...

>>8880382
OH GOD I MUST REPLY FAST TO HEAD OFF THE INEVITABLE

Ahem.

British and American gear wasn't as good as German gear, it's fair to point out. Numbers/supplies won out in the end.

>>8880410
I think I'm not saying what my point was accurately.

basically what >>8880375 said. The tech differences between the Germans and Soviets wasn't that big like the history book example the EP poster was using.

And the other point I'm trying to make is that the Soviets only won because the Germans overextended themselves I.E. Getting involved in North Africa, not finishing off the British, dealing with Yugoslavia, Greece and other shit the Italians pulled them into. As well as declaring war on the US.

>>8880504
Don't forget Japan's part in that clusterfuck.
"Give us tech and declare war on America!"
"And we'll get?"
"German will be the only foreign language depicted in a positve light in our future moving drawn pictures. We won't be arsed to hire an actual translator though."
"Sounds great!"

"Accordingly, in recognition of the batarians and their many contributions to the galactic community in the past 2000 years, we, the council, hereby recognize Commander Xepard, sworn of the Hegemony, as an agent of the Special Tactics and Reconnaissance branch of the council, and granted all the powers necessary to complete your duties."

"You are called at a dire time- the galaxy is on the brink, your own world of Tumaat Prime, attacked and ravaged by the Geth. Transhumans test the TEZ daily, resulting in a burgeoning black market for forbidden technologies. The one sent to supervise and assist you, Nihlus, dead by a mysterious assailant's hand. Xepard, you are the first of your kind made a spectre, and we hope you'll be able to prove the strength and intelligence of the batarians in service to the galactic peace."

"I assure you, there shall be no shortage of opportunities to prove yourself."

-Council, speaking at the selection of Xepard as spectre, after disproving geth or batarian involvement in the death of Spectre Nihlus.

what am i reading here

>>8880711
crossover fanfiction

"The situation is growing bad. The Systems Alliance is growing irrelevant. The coalition that formed to support and hold it up are seeing less and less reason to support us."

"We stand at a turning point. The spectres grow more interested and bold, and only more agitated as new geth attacks destabilize the already stretched Batarian Hegemony. We have to face facts- we can't wait to act any longer. Either we act, or somebody will set off this powder keg."

"There's news. A spectre, Saren Arterius has been signing off on a great deal of transhuman movements. A lot of bioware is also moving with them, to a planet called Feros. It's doubtful if it's legal, but he's a spectre. What is worrying, is Feros dropping out of contact with the rest of the galaxy. Saren Arterius, it's worth pointing out, lost a brother at Shanxi."

"According to my contacts on the Citadel, the council just invested a new spectre, sent him to Feros. We need to find out what's going on. We need to make sure that we don't have a better prepared fleet knocking on our door step."

"We need you, Shepard. You're the only one we can trust with the job. We've got a quiet rig waiting at Charon whenever you're ready."

"Good luck."

-Intercepted Message Encrypted QEOZ43.21p.a

>>8880410
As some yank said when someone asked him how the war was won.

Dodge, Jeep and Dakota.

>>8880868
I would like to have seen American win the war with allies like Italy and Japan.

>>8880880
Yeeeeeeahhhhhhhhhhhh.

It's really quite impressive how BAD Italy was.

And Japan's whole "LOL FUCK CONVOYS" business was just impressive for its derptitude.

>>8880880
The Japs weren't that bad, the Italians on the other hand...

>>8880927
Declaring war on America, as Japan.
That is only not THAT bad because the Italians set the bar quite high in that catergory.

>>8880880
Well we won the First World War with them, admittedly the Pacific saw very little action, and the Italians were routed by the Austrians and needed to be bailed out by the British and French to stay in soooo. Yeah. But we still won. sooo, take that what you will.

>>8880927
The Japs weren't bad in comparison to the Italians.

Too much Humanity Fuck Yeah - doesn't even read as humanity is awesome, it reads like the Author is to mankind what Mat Ward is to Marneus Calgar - just fapping over how 'awesome' it is.

>>8880941
The Italians still got their asses handed to them in WW1.

>>8880957
>humans can't break out of TEZ, aliens have wtfpwn fleet standing by.
>Tried to infiltrate, aliens cockblocked them with fake language
>Reduced to sending a single agent to piggyback with a council Spectre.

Yup, whole lot of HUMANITY FUCK YEAH! going on here.

Faggot.

The Italians didn't have bad troops, in fact they were quite competent, it's just that the Italians had grossly incompetent officers. They also had quite the intelligence network, in fact the Allies were never able to break it I think.

quantity has a quality all on its own

>>8880927
The Japanese were pretty shit, though. All they had going for them was a navy. However, the Italians didn't even have that.

>>8880990
Italy is shaped like a boot, so that has to count for something.

>>8880957

I don't know, what I'm reading is more like a Cold War between the Transhumanity and the Council races, tensions slowly but surely escalating due to the geth incursions and the Council under increasing pressure.

Then again maybe I'm just filling in the blanks so that I like the resulting picture better.

>>8880976

Doesn't change the fact the aliens speak of humans as nothing less than something utterly terrible they should all fear.

>>8880957
It's just another breed of Mary Sue. /tg/ likes to think it's above that, but it's become obvious from the Humanity, Fuck Yeah shit that they are just as bad as teenage girls who make vampire characters with cat ears and dual katanas.

I find it funny that all of the German and Japanese officers that had actually been to the US all said avoid going to war with it at all costs. And nobody listened to them.

This was a country that for every tank or airplane you could make they could make 150 at least. A country that could supply it's own war effort on two massive fronts, send lend lease to the British and Soviets, and still be able to have shit left over. That industrial disparity in not something you ignore.

>>8881012

Yeah but it reads like the Mass Effect backstory - except the humans come off more cocky, and the aliens terrified of humans for no reason given.

>>8881015
>>8881020
It's really no that bad, you got one salarian panicing, one turian reflecting on the fact that they just lost a battle, a volus commenting on turian economy and ego inflation, a human talking shit, an asari designer sympatizing with humanity and a bartarian specter being told that shit is about to get real.

Atleast it's not a "and then humans raped everyone and everything and they all shat themselves".

>>8881151
It's pretty realistic to me, just reverse the situation and make transhumanity another alien with exotic and ill-understood technology, a completely alien sense of culture and philosophies about everything, and fucking around with technologies that you are too scared to touch. OF COURSE the established society would be freaked right the fuck out.

I got an EP question: They use AI a lot in that universe, are AIs afforded equal rights?

Because if so, I could see the Geth getting all behind that. Humanity+Geth alliance goes lolurdead.

>>8881323

In some places yes, in some no. Most seem to be somewhere in between.

>>8881323
If I remember right that is the source of much debate, usually they get more liberal towards AIs. I also think that many of them have been programmed to behave in certain ways that they can't get rid of themselves, again a lot of AI rights protesters are against this.

>>8881323
It depends, EP is a very divided world.

In some places AI's are essentially equal to humans, in other places they aren't allowed to exist. and everything in between including slavery.

>>8881367
>usually they get more liberal towards AIs the further you get from the inner system

Fix'd

>>8881323

>I got an EP question: They use AI a lot in that universe, are AIs afforded equal rights?

No they don't, and not really.

Imagine AI's nuked all life off the planet, unleashed horror weapons still not fully understood, and basically fucked humanity's shit up and left.

AI's are treated a little more nicely than you would expect from that description. They are all purposely crippled, and they have trouble relating to humans/uplifts, and they are rarely considered people in a legal sense.

>>8881015

Have you played ME?

Galactic Fear #1: AI/Geth.
Galactic Fear #2: Fast Advancement/Uplifts/Reproduction - (Krogan)
Galactic Fear #3: Genetic Engineering/Nanotech beyond proscribed limits.

Transhumanity. A rapidly evolving society of genegineered, uplifted and synthetic intelligences with a mastery of nanotechnology that has eluded the Council for millenia. Currently, most of the population lacks a physical prescence, i.e. they want planets/resources. They have actual psychics. They have Railguns that don't use eezo and actual energy weapons. They have Pandora Gates.

If the Council decides to ostracize and threaten Transhumanity they don't have to try very hard to fear them. It's a ridiculous attitude to take, having already lost a war and with so much to gain from peace - but the Council members have a Swarzchchild Radius, so it's a little more understandable.

Anyway - it hardly matters if you think it's mary sue as if you take the Renegade path in ME1 then the galaxy is practically conquered (albiet indirectly) by humanity in 2 years and everyone is really wary of them.

>>8881422
thank you sir, you expressed those obvious points much more coherently than myself.

Bump for more writefaggotry and less WWII political debate.

So if Hitler was scripted as AI without limits, what would he destroy as his Reichstag in your Universe?

>>8882901

Accounting software.

>>8880655
HOLY FUCK I WAS ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THE SPECTRE INTRODUCTION SOUNDTRACK WHILE READING THAT SHIT.

I CAME BUCKETS

Ok, Asley, Kaidan and Beta (Shepard's fork), we are on pursuit, Saren is getting too close to the Conduit Alliance reinforcements are not coming any time soon, I need you both all to slow them down at all costs.
Protip (Kaidan is on the left and Shepard is not trying to compensate for something.)

This reeks of Mary Sue. Trying to make EP fit into ME is like trying a jigsaw puzzle into a water bottle. Sure you may get it in but it's all jumbled up and incoherent. Either play EP where it's basically super humans vs. cthulhu like intelligences who basically have reality tied up in cage or you can play ME where it's the entire galaxy vs. cliche AI villains.

>>8885178
>Cold War
>Mutually Assured Destruction
>Believable integration, not just EVERYONE WILL LOVE TRANSHUMANITY.
>Mary Sues.
I think you are posting in the wrong thread bro.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=163762
there, a C&C3 earth refused to join the Council and is able to stand up against the Council because, build-times are taken literally and no as a game mechanic, loltiberium, tanks that are House-Sized Rolling Thunder masses of "FUCK YOU" and Ion Cannons mounted on Cruisers. They also have Havok so the Asari are pretty much fucked (literally)

On the other side it has Kane as The Illusive Man and Nod acting as a Cerberus analogy so EVERY SIN IS COMPLETELY AND FOREVER FORGIVEN, in my eyes at least.

other than that thanks for the bump.

I dunno, the whole progenitor thing doesn't even seem like a possible plot arc in EP. They are just too powerful. In the end, you will primarily squabble amongst yourselves like humanity always does, meet new alien races, fight AIs...seems pretty ME-compatible in general.

>>8885425

Thank you good sir.

>>8885649
What? no...

With my actions I am reducing the viewers from this thread. Also we need more writefags, or atleast THE writefag to show up.

Yeah, but how do balance a setting like Eclipse Phase's with Mass Effect? The principles are just not the same. One is a classic if cliche space opera. The other is Call of Cthulhu in space. Hell, Eclipse Phase even has a sanity system.

You'd have a much better chance mixing a more neutral setting like Transhuman Space with Mass Effect. That way you're not forced to shuffle all the BBEG's around or combine them into a frankenstein monster.

I must admit that I like the idea of a Transhuman Space crossover into Mass Effect. There is little history of pre-first contact human society in ME so there's little conflict. Also the technologies presented in TS are unique but not OP. There would have to be some changes though, if only for plausibility. These would include throwing out the retarded naval classification for spacecraft, diversifying the alien population, and overall making the aliens more alien. This means basically chopping up the Asari. Goodbye blue chicks.

While I appreciate the work Bioware put into the setting, I tend to shy away from magi-tech. Thus I think it would be prudent to do away with element zero and instead focus on nano-tech. The mass relays could be substituted with micro-black holes fueling wormholes. These would be ancient cosmic artifacts, reused by civilizations. It could even be argued that there are an unusual amount of them in the galaxy. Thus galactic expansion grows along a predetermined path...

>>8886395
>This means basically chopping up the Asari. Goodbye blue chicks.
YOU ARE NOT A FRIEND OF JUSTICE!

Other than that, if Transhuman Space will merge better has little relevance to this thread. You can always make your own thread, of course

Seemed pretty empty when I got here. Nothing but World War comparisons and HUMANITY, FUCK YEAH!

How exactly do you plan to balance HUMANITY, FUCK YEAH!? How could the Citadel Races even compete with HUMANITY FUCK YEAH!?

Think of the Elcor!? :O

>>8886555
why is it that the HUMANITY, FUCK YEAH! accusers never seem to actually read the thread or the already valid debunking of the accusations made on several fronts?

It's not like this is the internet or anything...

Read the thread? Dude I've gone through all the archives and read everything on the EP/ME crossover. So far there are no arguments as to why humanity will not win the long run.
If any of you had read the actual EP book, you would know that every bloody counter you cooked up is temporary at best. Within several years, humanity could and would have the incentive to increase military capacity beyond that of the CR. You may think that element zero can make up for the CC technical inadequacies but you're wrong.
While it may provide vessels equipped with EZ drives a speed boost, you must consider the actual advantage of speed in such warfare. When you're facing c limited weaponry, it doesn't matter how fast you are, you will get hit. If you can jink, you'll try, but then it becomes a race of computer power and the ability of laser to perform a large spread. Speed is out, as EP humanity has the best programs and materials science.
Next is of course the kinetic shield. Sadly against a humanity it will do little. The ME canon specifically states that it does not protect against lasers, radiation, and a host of other things. Since these are humanities primary weapons, the Citadel is fucked as the only things they are going to be protected from are micro-meteorites.

The final nail in the coffin is of course cost ratio. When the humanity can fit together an anti-matter initiated fusion engine, a particle cannon and create something capable of immediately killing the create of their CR counterpart, there is really no competition. As a previous poster mentioned, the CR are limited by their dependency on EZ for weaponry. When humanity can produce vessels with no such thing and still have a decent chance of victory, any conflict will go in their favor.

To those that doubt humanities ability to industrialize, just read the freaking book and look at the pre-Fall hab number to the post. It went from a few dozen to thousands in 10yrs! That's not even counting the massive industrial projects going on on planets like Mars. All the while they have a gimped pop, and they're still building up fleets. If you want to edit the setting so that humanity in EP are scattered fragments producing only what they need on a micro level then do so. It just won't be EP. Don't confuse nano-industrialism with the lack of industry.

>>8887123

My fictional universe could beat up your fictional universe.

Discussions inspire.

Okay gentlemen. Can you think of ANY advantage that the Mass Effect galaxy could have over EP?

>>8888644
Numbers, sheer size of the military that the Citadel Races could bring to bear. Mind, this would only last until Transhumanity finished hacking their systems. Then it'd quickly turn into a large scale repeat of the First Contact War.
This could be perhaps negated, however.
A ship with no internal wireless network, and a heavily isolated communication system could be immune to hacking. In this case, the most that hacking could cripple this fleet is by cutting off its communications.
While this would no doubt cause large problems, properly trained commanders could help compensate, and the ships themselves would still be capable of fighting.

In short, to Transhumanity, the weakness of the Citadel Fleet is its communication systems. Hack one ship in the C3 network, and you've hacked them all.

Let's also mention that the Council races are limited by Elemental Zero. That means no matter how much they can produce, they need an incredibly rare element in large quantities to maintain their fleets.

Transhumanity does not. They can produce how many ships they want, each with a decent chance to fry the crew of a Council ship.

There is also another possibility I would like to go over. Since Transhumanity does not need organics to pilot their vessels, they can have much higher acceleration than normal. Hell they're jinking will be amazing. The Council races however will be limited by their squishy bodies. They could compensate with their mass fields but that of course would create greater heat and deplete their capacitors, slowing their weapon volleys.

This all supports my theory that Transhumanity has now weakness as a whole. They've simply evolved pass static detriments. Try balancing that with standard space opera i.e. Mass Effect.

>>8888644

Experience, resources, and diversity.

The council's been around for a while, they've run into more than a few existential threats and survived. For every Rachni war or Krogan rebellion, there's probably a hundred smaller incidents involving proscribed technology or genocidal AIs that get quietly dealt with by the Spectres. I wouldn't be surprised if some Salarian spooks were running around digging up old doomsday weapons and dusting off contingency plans just in case the transhumans turn out to be a greater evil.

The council races have access to 1% of the galaxy, but they are lazy. Their empire was handed to them on a silver platter, and they never though to ask why. They don't exploit the full potential of their systems because they have never needed to, there's no need to strip mine planets when it costs almost nothing to fly to a planet where all the minerals are just lying on the surface. The council races only do as much work as is needed to maintain their comfortable lifestyles, but when faced with an undeniable threat they panic and pull all sorts of crazy shit, like uplifting lizards to fight bugs.

Mass Effect has a lot of aliens, more than just the ones modeled or mentioned in the games, and they all think and act differently. Everything in Eclipse Phase, other than the Factors or the Exsurgent virus, is human or human made. The seed AIs left humanity in their dust, but they still started out as products of human logic and ingenuity. Even though it's written for the masses, Mass Effect's aliens are genuinely alien, they think and behave differently than what reasonable humans would expect. The humans in Eclipse Phase can barely understand the motivations of the few aliens they have, it will take them a while to figure out how to deal with the rest of the galaxy peacefully.

>>8888906
It would be safe to say that the council races would have to rely on a quick strike then, or somehow minimize vulnerabilities in said systems.
Bear in mind that Transhumanity is also recovering from an apocalypse and so they don't really have a fleet to begin with. Producing a fleet from scratch, while certainly possible thanks to certain technological advancements in turning crap into iron, still takes time which becomes the sole factor. You have to assemble people..or person... to crew the ship and establish command. Not to mention attempting to rally enough Transhuman factions to cooperate against this threat before the council races attack, not after.

What about our Asari whores? Doesn't transhumanity understand big tits? Isn't that like universal?

>>8889166
>They can produce how many ships they want, each >with a decent chance to fry the crew of a Council ship.
I think it was mentioned somewhere, or at least assumed, that EZ is needed to some extent to use the Mass Relays. I wouldn't put it past Transhumanity to make use of Battletech style jumpships though. A giant jump-drive, with a fleet riding it.

>Since Transhumanity does not need organics to pilot >their vessels, they can have much higher >acceleration than normal.
I believe someone put forword the idea of a very small dreadnought-equivalent crewed entirely by infomorphs, in one of the previous threads.

>>8889496
>jump-drive

>>8889556
You prefer the term jump-engine? FTL-drive? FTL-engine? Cat/Buttered Toast Anti Gravity Drive?

>>8889602
Now that last one sounds interesting...
I think that's possible (the battle rider idea), but I doubt it's feasible. Do you need more eezo for larger masses to initiate FTL travel?

>>8889689
One would assume so, but I don't know.
I just spend a couple minutes looking at FTL and Mas Relays on a ME wiki, there's actually nothing there about eezo being needed to use a Relay.
I'm thinking that eezo on the ships might just be the most efficient form of power they have access to.

If this is true, then there's nothing stopping a race with a working Relay from building a fuckasshuge fleet and sending it through.
Well, in either case, the concept of a jumpship is really just a very scaled up fighter-carrier.

Also, the C/BTAGD?
Toast always lands butter side down. Can always lands on its feet.

Affix toast, butterside up, to cat.
Drop cat.
???
Antigravity!

>And the other point I'm trying to make is that the Soviets only won because the Germans overextended themselves

Soviet victory was inevitable. German lines got too long, and the Soviets had men to throw into the grinder with heavy industry safely in the east where asspained Ubermensch couldn't hope to touch it. Even if Germany hadn't worthlessly thrown away its air force on Britain, they would have been bogged down and eaten alive as Soviet industry hit its stride; there's simply too much of Russia for Germany to take and hold.

Much ado has been made about how the Germans were high-tech military professionals and the Soviets were dumb human wave animals - this is to believe propaganda. Yes, the Germans did play pioneer with a lot of technology, but most of it was less than it was cracked up to be. Tigers were idiotically resource expensive and ate transmissions (as did the King Tiger and the far better Panther tanks). "Modern" Pkw IVs were inferior to T-34s (and more mechanically fidgety). Infantry weapon was comperable or better (the PPsh-41 vs. MP 40). Some advanced German tech was basically worthless garbage (super-heavy tanks, the V-1 and V-2 rockets, the early jet aircraft). Further, Soviet tactics grew increasingly competent as the officers gained experience - remember, the Stalin regime murdered its experienced officer corps.

>>8889909
On the super-soldier myth: Hitler prized ideological loyalty or meek obedience over any real competence. Groups like the Waffen-SS were a mixed bag - some were halfway decent soldiers, some were murdering marauders, some were dipshit little sociopaths playing dress-up. They were hardly the super elite death troopers some would have you believe. Not surprising, since the SS was an ideological organization first and foremost.

>>8889271
Just have the jovians fight the council races. It'll be easy, just find a jovian, point at a turian, and tell the jovian that the turian is a communist. Alternately, just tell the jovian that "that fucker" is coming for "your shit".

When we run out of jovians, repeat process with the PC.

>>8889842
I wish I never asked now...
And for the relays, it seems like you don't need an FTL drive to use them. The FTL drive is used to travel to local systems while a relay propels your ship through a "corridor" to another relay that it's linked to. In other words, you're a spitball, the straw is the link between two relays and relay A just blows really hard. Combined with the cutscenes of your ship just flying near it also helps to support it. Still speculation though.

>>8889993
And then, the Citadel and the Turians use one human faction attacking as an excuse to massacre the whole race.
Nice job breaking it, hero.

>>8890039
I felt it was more like being launched by a railgun through a stargate. Until I actually read the wiki/codex entry on the Relays, I honestly thought that they were some kind of subspace slingshots. Finding out that they did it with wormholes made it a bit less awesome, but still nifty.

What transhumanity needs to do is build up a fleet of thousands of ships and blockade one mass relay at a time. Every time a ship tries to get through or attack, they are destroyed at their EZ is salvaged. This EZ is then used to gradually outfit the fleet with kinetic shields to supplement their defenses and add a bit of speed. This is pretty much text book ME space tactics, which is gate camping. By the time the Council races can organize a massive fleet, it'll be too late. Additionally they'll have a hard time breaking the camp because I'm guessing their is a range in which arriving ships enter once activating the relay. Transhumanity simply needs to focus their targeting there, and any ship will go down to massed fire in seconds. This plan has a nice benefit of gradually destroying the Citadel Empire as more and more race refuse to send their ships because they are unable to hold their territories due to losses.

>>8890191
Of course, there's the whole "how are you going to hide a fleet that big during construction?" bit.

Jupiter. The harsh condition will make detection difficult at best. It also won't be hard to convince the Jovians to help destroy the aliens. The Jovians allow cybershells to collect resources and construct the vessels, while they supervise. There will also probably be some treaties promising garden worlds to the Jovians.

>>8890191
And there are ways to break a blockade as mentioned in the codex. Admirals will split their fleet up to make precise jaunts.

Fusion bombs are also an alternative. As we mentioned Citadel forces have no defense against radiation based weaponry. That's why our infomorph piloted warships use particle canons.

The only reason ME space combat is the way it is, is because of kinetic shields. It's almost the paramount of stupidity that after 50,000 yrs the council races have not so much as researched weaponry that can bypass it.

Here is an example.

In Mass Effect, you have a FTL drive. This allows you to move about the system with speed. However it's vastly inefficient, it can't travel long ways without having to refill. This is why the Mass Relays are there, they have a huge EZ core and it acts as massive jump drive. Hurling you to the next Mass Relay, which is the transceiver.

As to the person who says that ME & EP can't mix, I'd think they can. EP's BBEG are basically self aware and self improving AI, this is more inline with the Reapers. The Aliens in EP are truly aliens yes, however if you look at it, they could or couldn't be part of the Council. They could be part of another empire on the other side of Council Space, and know how to use the Pandora Gates.

I'm not saying the core stories would be impossible to mesh. It's the technologies in the background. Eclipse Phase is simply leagues ahead of Mass Effect, whose only technological wonder is the ability to use element zero. There entire society basically depends on that. Take it away, or provide a reasonable alternative, and they are soon eclipsed.

Another thing is the economics of both. One is based off of a reflection of classic economics in space. The other is post scarcity. Based on what I experienced in the game, Mass Effect still relies on organic labor. An example of this would be shop keepers or in the first book Relevation the miners Saren kills. Eclipse phase has almost exclusively robotic labor for large manufacturing while it can also use nano-fabs to make anything else at cheap price considering complexity. Simple put, humanity in Eclipse can rival if not exceed the Citadel Races in manufacturing output. That's with just the solar system. Add in another whole system full of material and it becomes just unfair.

>>8890658
That's the thing, in EP they have technology that in ME there's nothing like it. That what makes it a good clash, you got Transhumans whom are basically way ahead technology wise of the council races. However they're just recovering from the apocalypse and most Transhumans are locked away in slave bodies or on the infonet as Infomorphs. This is totally alien for the purely biological Council Races whom in their eyes are still recovering from the Krogan Rebellions and Geth Uprising. Yet even with all the technology in the system they can't face off against the Council in an all out war. It would be death for Transhumans.

>>8890658
Transhumanity's manufacturing and mining abilities are limited, though. I'll admit to not having read Eclipse Phase, but I know that raw materials are limited, no matter what. I would also expect that while Transhumanity's automated manufacturing abilities would give them an edge in speed, there's still the scale to take into account.
Assuming the Citadel would be keeping an eye on the humans, they'd notice when these large factories start building starships. Transhumanity, as described in these threads, while able to build ships fairly quickly, wouldn't be able to build enough of them at the same time to be a threat before the Citadel tries stopping them.

We're getting back into the high-tech vs. numbers/scale conversation here.

Something to remember is infrastructure.

Put any anon in the middle of the sahara, and they'd die.

Similarly, separate any transhuman from their society, and their advantages are gone.

Despite relays, pandora gates, et all, distances matter. A lot. Isolating transhumans would help level the playing field.

What's the point in arguing this anymore? I will however have one final word. Space combat is quick and brutal. Mass Effect delays this by giving their spacecraft shields. When shields cannot protect those ships they snap like dry twigs. It doesn't matter how many ships you have or how many guns. What matters is a knowing where your enemy will be next. Thus this makes gate camping the best tactic in EPvsME because unlike in ME alone, shields will not protect you from the initial volley. One shot and your out.

In the end this leaves the Council unable to fully pursue Transhumanity if they retreat pass the Charon relay. NO force will be able to follow without coming under instant fatal attack. Of course the Council could try to go the slow way and ftl from another system to Sol, but the fuel... I'm not sure any ship could make the distance, fight, and have enough to get back home. Basically it's suicide. Transhumanity meanwhile are preparing for inevitable war. They can wait, because time isn't an issue. Wait until they become nothing but nightmares told to turian children.

Also I think people underestimate the just how big the solar system is. You're not going to run out of resources unless you're building a dyson sphere.

>>8891002
Build enough of anything, and you'll run out of resources, simple as that. If anything, there'll be a point when what few resources are left won't be worth going to get, because they'll be worth less overall then the effort needed to gather them.
Resources are always limited, in some way.

I will agree that Transhumanity can just camp behind the TEZ for centuries, if need be. Neither side is looking for a war, because they know that it'd be a lose/lose ending. At this point, Transhumanity just needs to wait for the paranoia regarding them to blow over. Call it about a century. Maybe a bit longer.

Yeah but how much of a limitation is that? In a post-scarcity economy, the material cost for resource gathering could be a very. I wouldn't put strip mining an entire moon past transhumanity.

When will we get more Xepard & Shepard writefaggotry? Btw how do you pronounce Xepard?

>>8891109
Well, obviously we're not talking about running out in mere decades, or even a century. Part of what I'm talking about, and should have clarified before, is fuel costs. Even in a post-scarcity economy, the price of something will be effected by how much it costs to transport it. In the case of resource gathering, that includes traveling to it, gathering it, and bringing it back. Unless we're talking something like the Migrant Fleet, which carries its manufacturing and refining equipment with it.

>>8891120
I don't know, guess the guy isn't on tonight, or doesn't have anything worth posting yet.
As to the name, the given as it's based off Shepard, I'd imagine it's pronounced similarly, just with a "z" sound.

I had erased this little bit of writefaggotry.

"I don't think everyone understands what we are up against. There's a whole Galaxy out there with vast amounts of resources that could wage a war of attrition that we could very well lose, we also suddenly we became the Bogeymen everyone is afraid of. I mean has anyone bothered to watch the pile of crap some Turian movies are smearing on us?"

"The correct analogy to this situation would be a Reverse Jovian Junta, the Irony of that statement makes me want to run into a corner and weep. We are surrounded by civilizations that could greatly benefit from our technologies, WE CAN OFFER CLINICAL INMORTALITY! but none of them want them. "

"Some Anarchist extremist are already calling them Xeno luddites. Saying that they are below the Jovians for the mere fact they aren't human, and that they still have slavery, of course you don't need to look further than the inner system to see Slavery in its maximum expression, although the Anarchists are actually pretty vocal about it as well."

"Some argue that we should help our image by building habitats for the Quarians, curing or at least alleviating the Krogan disease and becoming intermediates between biological races and the Geth. FOOLS! they are all deluded fools, if we take a single step even to discuss these issues a whole war could erupt just to prevent us from "gathering forces".

"We couldn't be any luckier to have Timothy as our ambassador to the Council, he certainly haven't brought these issues to debate, that alone proves he's capable of seeing the Bigger picture."
"We must join the Council on their terms, its the best way to guarantee our survival and having an united front against ETI threats, let us hope this will not happen too late."

======== Donnel Udina Beta, Captain Donnel Udina fork former spokesman of the Systems Alliance.