File: 1351397735596.jpg-(25 KB, 947x400, Sharps Model 1859.jpg)

Bumping with a Sharps, the ultimate "FUCK YOU" to things that go bump in the night, 1800s style.

bump for interest

Well, posses would actually be an official (as official as the local sheriff's authority) thing.

Alright let's try and get some real activity going here.
The year is 1875, and you recently survived a werewolf attack on your family's farm. They got your parents and your little sister though.
The law said it was just an Indian raid, that you're nuts, but you know better. Those were werewolves by god.
A group men rode up to your farmhouse and offered to help you get your revenge. They offered that if you do well, they might have a spot in their organization for you.
You decide to take them up on their offer, and head inside to arm yourself.
What do you arm yourself with?

>>21319305
I'd grab my volcanic rifle. Dat relatively high fire rate.

>>21319305
The Colt Single Action Army "Artillery" Model (5 1/2 inch barrel) and the Berdan Sharps 1859 Rifle. I'm a damn good shot. I also grab two tomahawks, just in case.

What was the name of that western vampire game that came out awhile ago...? Darkwatch or something?

Whatever.

They had an organization devoted to hunting vampires. What if we expanded on that, made a big old organization devoted to hunting and killing monsters, vampires, werewolves, more obscure stuff like skinwalkers, wendigos and other indian folklore beasts?

Depending on the era we could put ex confederate and union soldiers alongside injuns and maybe the occasional european in with some fancy spell books or crazy inventions. would make for a damn cool setting.

>>21320882
Yeah, it was Darkwatch.
>made a big old organization devoted to hunting and killing monsters, vampires, werewolves, more obscure stuff like skinwalkers, wendigos and other indian folklore beasts?
Fuck. Yes.

>>21319548
>Colt Single Action Army "Artillery" Model (5 1/2 inch barrel)

About 20 years too early. But the SAA would definitely be my first priority.

>>21320956
>About 20 years too early.
Nope.
Post said 1875. SAA was designed for US Government service revolver trials in 1872 and was adopted in '73.

>>21320990
Yeah, but the Artillery model wasn't developed until 1895.

File: 1351406634137.gif-(1.93 MB, 235x240, m1C1E.gif)

Time to go eat some livers

>>21320899
well we need a snappy name for it. Our organization's main qualities.

A: Based in the US, preferably the old west, but frankly anywhere the union can't enforce its will and gloss over the fact that yes, vampires, werewolves and all sorts of strange shit exists.
B: they hunt and kill monsters
C: they're made up of exmilitary guys, hunters/Trackers, indians, inventors, mad scientists, mages if that's a thing in our setting if not no mages, and basically anyone who's pissed at monsters and wants them dead.

anything I missed?

File: 1351406794151.jpg-(51 KB, 799x348, Colt 1851 Navy.jpg)

>>21321024
Oh. Damn. Shows what I know. Have an image of an 1851 Navy as an apology for my idiocy.

>>21321024
>>21320990
okay lets just throw out dates for the moment and say "Post civil war wild west, with monsters." we'll never be specific on the date. just that the civil war is a fairly recent event. That way we get period appropiate guns and you don't have top worry about fairly minor details like when a particular model gun came into production.

Also we have stuff like vampires and werewolves so arguing about guns and their feasibility is just a little bit silly, I mean we could easily say its an alt history and throw in some diesalpunk elements.

>>21321077
Nah, it's not idiocy. I would have gone for the 5 1/2 inch too. I actually had to look it up to find the date on it.
Though, the Navy is highly appreciated. My favorite revolver (favorite pistol in general, really). The 1858 Remington New Army is a close second.

>>21321091
Oh, as the guy who first posted that little "wat do", I was actually just trying to draw people into the thread. Yeah, the setting should be wide open.

File: 1351407020074.gif-(139 KB, 454x575, 1339188818777.gif)

Bumpin with a real western hero

File: 1351407270788.jpg-(82 KB, 500x260, images.jpg)

>>21318727

Gonna drop a lot of coins on Silver Bullets

File: 1351407519483.jpg-(37 KB, 300x436, Silver Delivery Round.jpg)

>>21321124
It's the perfect length. Not too short, not too long. Other lengths are better for specific roles, but the 5 1/2 is the all-rounder that you use every day. The working man's gun.
>>21321193
>Silver bullets
Bad idea. Silver is too light to fly true, and doesn't properly engage the rifling. Pure silver only works in shotguns basically. In a modern setting you can make pic related (yes, it's basically a Corbon Pow'rBall, but with a silver ball instead of polymer), but I'm not sure what you'd do for a good silver delivery system in the old west.

>>21321128
okay cool, and our gun fans are actually pretty cool dudes so now I feel silly for worrying about a big arguement.

Now I'm now historian, so I don't think I can adequetly flesh out thehistory of our setting, however a game like this lets call its Black Hats for lack of a better name, should focus on cowboys/injuns hunting monsters.

In general we're going to be looking for wilderness locations like the florida everglades, the wide expanses of texas (fuck that state, I've been there ) and... I'm tired so I can't think of other locations.

IT SHOULD BE IN AMERICA, AWAY FROM THE CITIES! You should be out in a snow covered forest, a six shooter clutched in hand, hunting down a serial rapist possessed by an ancient spirit of hunger (wendigo) or locked in a log cabin, fending off werewolves with a cavalry saber and a shotgun.

What we need in short, is a system that supports hunting, tracking, some social interaction, and combat, both with guns/bows/throwing knives and with hatchets/sword/clubs.

File: 1351407657809.jpg-(18 KB, 300x216, images.jpg)

The old west held many characters that would be far more terrifying than some supernatural critter.

It would make for fun gaming though.

>>21321241
shotgun like you said, arrowheads and knives coated in silver, that's all I can think of really.

We should have stuff like holy water and the favor of various spirits and stuff like that. A little indian mysticism but not enough to go into HURRR NOBLE SAVAGE territory.

The number one rule of the organization: NEVER HUNT ALONE. If you go alone, you will DIE. Always have backup.

File: 1351407916030.jpg-(8 KB, 225x225, images.jpg)

>What we need in short, is a system that supports hunting, tracking, some social interaction, and combat, both with guns/bows/throwing knives and with hatchets/sword/clubs.

GURPS: Weird West

>>21321241
Well...If we're talking a setting where monsters are commonplace, I think it's safe to assume an efficient means of manufacturing silver bullets has been developed.
What about, hypothetically, a lead slug with a silver cap, while leaving the rear or the bullet open to mushroom and catch the rifling?
Sure, it's not particularly glamorous (or realistic, for that matter), but there's always Rule-Of-Cool.

>>21321279
hey Real Life is almost always more terrifying than fiction. In the meantime though I find the notion of cowboys and indians hunting monsters fascinating.

>>21321321
Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Always carry a bible or appropiate indian charm with you, there are no athiests in the Black Hats


This is allI can think of from that back of my head, I think we need at least 5 or 6 rules.

>>21321338
No. OP specifically said NOT weird west. GURPS does not solve any

>>21321363
thing

>>21321359
Always carry a blade. You never know when you will need it.

>>21321279
Mah Huckleberry!

>>21321359
If you think it's dead, you haven't shot it enough.

>>21321356
If we make it dieselpunk/steampunk (more grim dark, less gaslamp romance) then we can throw in all kinds of crazy shit. I for one want the Black Hats supported and opposed by wizards and alchemists and mad scientists all sorts of crazy shit on top of the monsters they face.

Maybe that's too far away from our source material though...

File: 1351408245070.jpg-(154 KB, 750x1083, I'm Your Huckleberry.jpg)

>>21321391
Poor soul. You were just too high strung.

Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Always carry a bible or appropiate indian charm with you, there are no athiests in the Black Hats
4: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
5: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
6: If it's dead then you have to contend with its ghost,

We need a list of guns for this game, when do we want the cut off year to be? When is it no longer "Wild West" enough?

>>21318727

>What is Werewolf the Wild West or whatever was it called

Also I wonder if someone scanned the 20th anniversary book

>>21321451
Depends on the region, really. Some areas became "civilized" before others, but "the end of the Old West" is usually considered to be somewhere around 1920.

>>21321451
if the union can keep what is essentially 10'000 ish people from building fortified encampments, researching ghosts, werewolves, vampires, and less easily described creatures, then its no longer wild westish enough.

basically these guys are supported by some rich robber baron types, have ties to the military in america and europe, have indian shamans on hand, and fortresses that they operate out of.some somewhere in the very late 1800s and the early 1900s would be my guess, but what the fuck do I know?

>>21321451
Colt Navy should be the gold standard weapon wise.

also it is generally believed that the last vestige of the "wild" west ended around 1910 maybe 1914 if you are pushing it.

>>21321451

With the Mauser C96 being released in 1896, I'd say early 1890s and before, as a general rule of thumb. Though, it should really be more about the aesthetic than the actual hard dates.

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>>21321356

>Billy finds a gun hidden for him in the outhouse and gets the drop on Bell, shooting him in the back. He quickly retrieves Ollinger's shotgun loaded with "sixteen thin dimes" and shoots Ollinger dead in the street, saying, "Keep the change, Bob."

A shotgun loaded with dimes.

I would keep that available for close encounters.

File: 1351409011382.gif-(85 KB, 1350x249, Winchester 1887.gif)

>>21321529
So my good friend the Winchester 1887 Lever Action Shotgun can come play?

>>21321564

It's not the Wild West without a Winchester, or at the very least a Henry.

>>21321542
what a fucking awesome tombstone. i hope to earn a tombstone that badass in my lifetime.

>>21321564
Buddy, you keep bringing ladies that pretty in here, you can have all your drinks on the house.
So what should the "signature" of the Black Hats be, if any? Just a black hat, or something more specific?

>>21321542
ok THAT Should be one of the rules>>21321448

Rule 7: Never kill a man that doesn't need killin

While it's true that the Black Hats as an organization performs 80% of its operations in rural areas and 7% in foreign territories(primarily in Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean Islands), the remaining 13%(or as known amongst field agents as the 'Accursed Percentile') occurs in American Cities and are amongst the worst cases for Black Hats to deal with

>>21321574

Prffffffft

>>21321600
>and are amongst the worst cases for Black Hats to deal with
I'm guessing because they have to get in, do the job, and get back out, without being caught by the local authorities, and with minimal support due to the nature of the job?
So does the government just dislike the Black Hats, or does it consider them criminals?

>>21321564
lever action guns should be high tier guns, but yes, setting appropiate.
>>21321554
that is hard fuckin' core. consider that idea stolen.

Okay now here's something that needs to be looked at.

The earliest Werewolve legends I can think of involved a man making a deal with the devil and transforming into a wolf, later on we gfet tribes of people who inherited lycanthropy from their ancestors.

Vampires were basically zombies in most cultures, then holywood's version of dracula became popular. Note for instance that in most vampire legends that the sun itself doesn't harm vampires, they just don't like it. In bram stoker's dracula the titular vampire loses his magic during day time but can walk around in the sun. Later on we get crispy vampires when they're exposed to the sun.

A: how much folk lore are we using?

B: are monsters people? Can vampires and werewolves join the Black Hats? I want to say no as a rule of thumb, how about you guys?

>>21321619
I honestly like the oldschool lore, I think it fits nicer. Zombie Vampires and Devil-worshiping Werewolves all around!

>>21321596
I think a black hat, maybe an inverted sheriffs badge?

>>21321619
>A: how much folk lore are we using?
I'd say go with the folklore rather than the more modern versions, because they're underused.

>>21321619
I vote no on monsters being people, but some moral ambiguity can be okay with say, werewolves.

>>21321631
I kinda like this idea, but sheriff's badges are (usually) six pointed. It should be a five pointed star, made of silver.
Maybe with some kind of folk symbol on it.

>>21321600
Lets assume that the Black Hats are considered to be dangerous vigilantes by the American government, due in part to the rise of science, general stupidity, and clever entities like vampires and ghosts and what not authoritries assume that Black Hats members are delusional madmen who use folklore and superstition as an excuse to kill people. Its one part idiot bureaucracy, and one part sinister conspiracy.

>>21321600
I like this, nice one.

>>21321596
I was thinking in true oldwest style they'd have a badge, maybe cufflinks or pins for the classier members. Probably a cool looking crest. Clearly the badge should be modled on a star of some sort, perhaps a stylized sun with some heraldry on it? On and a Black hat is essential.

Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Always carry a bible or appropiate indian charm with you, there are no athiests in the Black Hats
4: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
5: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
6: If it's dead then you have to contend with its ghost,
7: Ghosts are real, the nastiest ones are created by unjust deaths. DO NOT kill a normal human being unless they need killing.

maybe we should have the number of star points on the badge be equal to rules of the black hats?

>>21321619
>B: are monsters people?
I'd lean towards no, just because honestly that's one of the most overused ways of trying to "greyify" things that really aren't.
For example, vamps are blood-sucking parasites and should be made dead. Permanently. You get bit, your buddies'll make sure you don't rise again as one of those things, and you'd do the same for them.
I'd say have different "categories" of vampire, where the really fucking weak ones are the classic zombie-like ones, and what the Black Hats mostly deal with, but there ARE smart ones, although very rare, and they're only to be taken on by the most experienced members (Should the Black Hats have a special term for members? A ranking system of terms?) and only in force.

>>21321678
I'd revise rule 7 to be: Don't kill a man a don't need killing. Ghosts are dangerous sons of bitches.

>>21321708
*that don't need killing.

So, basically, Witcher in the Wild West?

>>21321629
yeah I like the old Lore too. We should base our monsters on folklore as much as possible, throw in stuff like magic, alchemy, and mad science with an old west feel to it to even things up.

Vampires will be more nosferatu than dracula, weaker ones will be flat out rotting corpses, and the stronger ones will be dried up desicated corpese, possibly even skeletal remains kept alive by lifeblood. The more blood they feed on the more human they look, the older they get though, the more freakish they get.

Werewolves are ambious as hell, they can worship ythe devil are just barter with spirits, but by and large their ilk are to be avoided since a good portion of them become beastial psychopaths. We can make these guys real nasty encounters since they'll probably have magic of some sort, or demonic back up to aid them in combat.\

both of these things would make blessings old church style and indian magic a necessity.

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>>21321631

Something like this?

File: 1351410314363.jpg-(20 KB, 345x342, Reverend Ray.jpg)

>>21321733
>both of these things would make blessings old church style and indian magic a necessity.
And would make a Priest a VERY effective character for bringing them down, and just generally good to have around.

>>21321759
>Priest
Well, a preacher in general actually.
I hate when I think one word and type another.

>>21321745
Yeah basically.

Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Always carry a bible or appropiate indian charm with you, there are no athiests in the Black Hats
4: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
5: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
6: If it's dead then you have to contend with its ghost,
7: Do not kill a man unless the man is in need of killing, ghosts are nasty sons of bitches.

also, maybe we can call the Elite Black Hats, White Hats? White is a simble of purity after all.

Course the name becomes mildly confusing if we do that? Maybe we can call them Hard Calibers to steel a phrase from stephen king? I kinda like the idea of keeping them dressed in black, maybe throw in some references to johnny cash...

>>21321660
I don't know I kinda like the idea that the Black Hats are Government tied(however minimally on paper) and would gradually evolve into this settings equivalent to the Men In Black(movie and cartoon versions) and also I believe that while people in general know that weird stuff happens they just don't know the full extent of things(so while Bill the rancher knows that every February 17 one of his cow's will show up drained of blood and missing exactly 9 organs he doesn't know that this happens to 5 other ranchers across the state and that a Chupacabra is the culprit)

>>21321772
I kinda like the ironic name of "Black Hats" something that can easily be whispered in a bar and you know they don't get fucked with.

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>>21321759
"Nothing like a good piece of hickory."

>>21321745
>>21321759
hrmm, stylized pentacle badge, would be especially appropiate if they made use of old style alchemy and other cool stuff. Mayvbe earn the name black hats by using magic of a sort to fight the monsters.

Also yeah, preachers should definetly be among the more effective fighters of the Black Hats, preferably old testament fire and brimstone style preachers.

What all critters would you guys be thinking of? so far you have what:
Zombies/vampires
Werewolves
Wendigos
Ghosts

That isn't that much for a Monster hunting game

>>21321774
>gradually evolve into this settings equivalent to the Men In Black

I fully endorse this idea.

>>21321808
Chupicabras? Im not too versed on my folklore.

>>21321808
I don't think a comprehensive list is necessary. There are so many creatures of folk lore just in the Americas that it could really be anything.

>>21321789
>>21321774
hrmm I was thinking making them rebels and vigilantes to fit with the old west theme and making them government agents wouldn't jve with that. The MIB reference is nice though. I was thinking more XCOM but with wendigos and stuff.

Why don't we make them a secret society of sort? Like the Illuminati, various high ranking people back them, and while they have a base in the US they don't technically work for the government. Something like self appointed law bringers who are studiously ignored by people in power until they absolutely have to do something.

>>21321808
There's Chupacabras as mentioned earlier. Skinwalkers. Enraged animal totem spirits. Devils/demons. Crazy people who perform rituals and made Faustian deals. Mutant animals (Eight Legged Freaks but in the Wild West, for one idea.) All sorts of other folklore stuff.

Use your imagination, man.

>>21321832
>rebels and vigilantes
>government agents

Not always mutually exclusive.
Hell, even Billy the Kid was deputized.

>>21321808
What we really need is an expert on Native American folklore.
>>21321774
>>21321813
But the Men In Black in the movie and cartoon WEREN'T government. Remember, K specifically stated that they aren't when J asked in the first movie.

>>21321808
>>21321815
A chupacabra is a mexican (I think its mexican) creature. It's name literally translates as "Goat Sucker" or something like that. It's widely accused by farmers, ranchers, and whathaveyou for the deaths of livestock, usually found with neck wounds and a noticable drain in the creature's blood levels.

Basically we don't need to focus on the monsters at the moment, folk lore has so many examples and the old west being what it was there's loads of creatures that could show up.

just think of the black hats as the BPRD in the old west, with a human centric feel because "monsters are people too" has been done to death at this point. oh, and no cthulu. This is a setting where the monsters can, and probably will die eventually. Might lose some good men though.

>>21321678
>3: Always carry a bible or appropiate indian charm with you, there are no athiests in the Black Hats
Can we rewrite this to:
"Pick a god, any god. You might just get lucky."

I think that gives the rule a grittier feel.

>>21321860
>"Pick a god, any god. You might just get lucky."
That both makes me chuckle and seems to fit a little better.
Be interesting to see how a fire and brimstone preacher handles realizing that native spirits and shit are real. Probably consider them angels or similar servants of God.

>>21321858
>>21321855
oh wait, I forgot you're right. They were like SHIELD or something. They did what they had to do to protect the planet. They were above the government.

When we consider this, and the fact that a good portion of outlaws got pardons or became outlaws after a career IN the law then it makes a lot of sense for Black Hats to be the MIB/BPRD.

File: 1351411176016.jpg-(39 KB, 307x485, 3cute5me.jpg)

Is this really happening? Are we gonna make this?
Cause I'm so fucking hype right now, tg.

All Flesh Must Be Eaten has a setting for the Wild West. Also, Shadowrun set in Native American deserts is basically cyberpunk magical western.

Hey guys, I just thought of something.
What if we had Sam Colt as an ally of the Black Hats?
Not a member, but a sympathetic outsider who knows just enough to know that these guys
A) aren't nuts
and
B) need every edge they can get

Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Pick a god, any god, you just might get lucky.
4: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
5: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
6: If it's dead that just means you have to fight its ghost.
7: Do not kill a man unless the man is in need of killing, ghosts are nasty sons of bitches.

amusingly enough depsite the presence of old testament style preachers the Black Hats are probably one of THE most accepting groups, gender, race, and religion wise due to their first hand knowledge of native gods and spirits and the fact that fighting demon worshipers and vampires probably strips of life's illusions pretty quickly.

>>21318727

Skinwalkers. Bad mojo.

>>21321827
>>21321850

But if the idea is "Monster hunting" some idea of what you mean by "monster" is kind of required. Dragon hunting is rather different from vampire hunting, and as such, groups devoted to each of those things would be equally different. I know that a lot of native american monsters are basically large versions of normal critters with semi appropriate abilities, such as a giant skunk that kills with its breath. However past that I don't know much about american monsters.

>>21321909
I think we should reorder them, for effect.
>1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
>2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
>3: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
>4: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
>5: If it's dead then you have to contend with its ghost,
>6: Do not kill a man unless the man is in need of killing, ghosts are nasty sons of bitches.
>7: Pick a god, any god. You might just get lucky.

>>21321832
Well as I thought of it the government ties of the Black Hats would primarily be in 3 ways: 1. The Black Hats collect bounties on the monsters they bag through a member of the Department of the Treasury code-named the Grey Man 2. They get special deals on surplus military goods 3. They have permits to act within the United States and it's Territories and as for ties with other organizations I'd say that while they've worked with other groups before(like say the Vatican's monster hunting group) they should be mostly independent

>>21321882
yes, we are fucking doing this. By god I will have a setting dedicated to playing a cowboy MIB who hunts wendigos.

>>21321907
I can totally see this happening.

Also I can't speak for most Bative american folklore but my mother is half indian and I picked somethings up from her.

A: Wendigos are hunger spirits, we can have them be infectious, you kill a guy after being wounded by a wendigo you become one. Presumably the blackhats capture the things alive and seal them in coffins and then wall up those coffins and ward the fuck out of them.

B: skin walkers were witches of a sort, they'd crawl out of their skins and transform into smething else...or wear the skin of others?

Fuck I can't remember we need an expert of Amerindian folk lore.

>>21321949
Maybe they have different branches within the organization that specializes in each creature sub-type? So a "spirit" branch, a "walking dead" branch, a "mutant animal" branch, etc.

>>21321907

But its already been said, after the civil war, sam cold died before the civil war ended.

>>21321968
And maybe a single posse made of the oldest, canniest, toughest, meanest Black Hats. They've all served time in every branch, and they're doled out carefully to jobs that need that experience most. If one of these guys comes along, the job is serious shit.

I'll just throw this up here. I'm too tired to actually go through it, myself.
www.native-languages.org/monsters.htm

>>21321954
that works I think, no reason we shouldn't order them. Maybe we can inscribe them on the back of the badge?

>>21321956
I like this, I think we should have a focus on down home preachers and Native artifacts, maybe some stuff left behind by conquistidors and what not when it comes to the holy or divine aspects of the Black Hats? Maybe Snake Oil Salesmen and Crazy inventors for gadgets and potions?

>>21321977
>zombified sam colt working in the inner bowels of the black hat headquarters, endlessly making guns and ammo because he knows how terrible the monsters of the desert are

>>21321968
Maybe they are like the opposite of the 40k Inquisition. Instead of only sending one branch they build teams made up of members of each?

I'm going to bed, don't let this thread die or I'll haunt you!

>>21321977
Oh yeah. Damn. Damn damn damn. Ah well, could still just be a neat little bit of Black Hat history just as backstory.

>>21322022
Don't wanta fuck with rule 5. We'll keep her up.

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>>21321813

What if the Black Hats were a tiny sub group of the Pinkerton Detective Agency that was involved in investigating "unusual crimes".

What if the sister of one of the Black Hats was abducted by an unknown dirigible? And this lead to his unending quest to find his sister and the Pinkertons assigned another Black Hat to debunk everything he sees?

Pic related.

>>21322023
Sam colt backed and actively aided the Black Hats, to the degree that he was hunted down and killed by <insert mythic BBEG here> his legacy however lives on in the large, and varied arsenal that the Black Hats, and their elite groups The Hard Calibers, use in their never ending battle with the creatures that prey on man kind.

>>21322056

>Sam colt backed and actively aided the Black Hats, to the degree that he was hunted down and killed by <insert mythic BBEG here>

Yeah, the stalking horror of the plains. Some call it: Gout.

>>21322049
I think the "Black Files" division of the Pinkerton agency should be a thing, but the Black Hats should be semi disconnected from the US government. Sort of like a knightly order devoted to hunting down the dark creatures of the american continent.

only...you know with cowboys.

>>21322071
>Implying gout isn't a disease created by being attacked by a monster that causes amnesia.

File: 1351412512014.gif-(147 KB, 320x240, Lupin Laugh.gif)

>>21322071
heh
>>21322076
>only...you know with cowboys.
So with the equivalent within the American cultural consciousness of the Knight Errant of European stories.

These dudes, they need to be mystical, but not to Dark Tower levels. They should have talismans or 'medicine', but only of minor effect. An active hunter's medicine would basically be his gun, a preacher's his book, etcetera.

>>21322071
You know a lot of cultures believed that disease was actively caused by their equivilent of witches and warlocks. Why not have Sam Colt struck down by a powerful devil worshipping priest for developing a efficient method of producing silver bullets?>

>>21322071

But Gout is a great excuse for a guy having spent less and less time in the public and more and more time in secret helping this organization. Gout also kind of leaves your body all messed up. I'd say its easy enough for us to transfer to mythological creature.

>>21322106

It doesn't have to be, though. Sam Colt dying of the gout adds a nice real world touch. Not everything needs to be directly tied to the mythos.

>>21322092

I think alchemists and such should be mostly in the, off the lines, out of actual combat area, so even the people who have some level of magic and such aren't the guys doing the job, they just make the tools.

>>21322090
exactly, they're called black hats, but in general they're supposed be the mythical cowboy who rides into townb, shoots the badguys and rides off into the sun set.

>>21322092
preachers and maybe indian shamans would be the most mystical of the bunch, at most you'll get bonuses from things like lucky coins, old family bibles, indian charms, the blessings of priests and shamans, maybe a permament blessing broughyt about by pleasing a god. Like you said, mystical, but more superstitious mystical, less I dunno a good descriptor for the dudes from dark tower.

Superstitious cowboys who have rabbits feet that are actually lucky. Every cowpoke knows that mutiple rabbits feet do not add up their luck though.

>>21322114

I was thinking more along mechanical lines. Magic is all well and good, but medicine is where it's at - but each character's medicine is different.

Although maybe putting too much Native type spirituality into the whole shebang is dangerous.

>>21322112
Agreed, plus it lets there be a nice little somber story to remind the Black Hats that even if the Monsters don't get you, no man lives forever.

Okay so, idea for combat. instead of health being how many hits you can take, it's luck (basically JUST missing that claw swing) and then attacks that avoid luck (getting stabbed in your sleep) a good way to have both lethality without it being over the top. Luck is restored by prayers and tribal chants and such.

File: 1351412972117.jpg-(1.36 MB, 2561x1917, chinese-workers2.jpg)

Dibs on the Kung-fu cowboy hunting the hopping vampires that wiped out his family when they were working on the railroads.

>>21322137
Thirded

>>21322137
some stories and writefaggotry indicating he knew what was going on, got gout, died and left a good portion of prototype weaponry and such to the black hats so they could continue their work and protect america from What Lurks In The Dark.

>>21322150
like this? >>21321241

>>21322126
>>21322142
We'll divide it up into 3 groups.

Judeo-Christian beliefs: We lump in catholic, jewish, and protestant style stuff here.

Pagan Beliefs: Native stuff, hindi, or old european culture, just lump all the non christian stuff together, make native stuff equal to old chinese folklore and whathaveyou

Superstition: lucky coins, knocking on wood, not religious superstition, but the tiny folk things that grew from pagan beliefs but are so far removed from context they just look quirky.

oh and that Luck as health thing is definetly worth exploring. Nice touch anon.

>>21322150

How about a team of guys that worked under him within the black hats still being around. They build new weapons and manufacture some of the group's specialty weapons.

>>21322172
why the hell not? Maybe he came up with a gun specifically designed to shoot antiundead/ghost/whatever rounds and left it to the Black Hats before he passed away.

>>21322188
Yeah, that way in combat healing would still be semi-possible without stretching suspension of disbelief.

>>21322190
Maybe call them the Colt Boys? It's a good idea whatever we feel like naming it. Technicians trained and vetted by Sam Colt himself to aid an organization dedicated to protecting mankind from monsters.

File: 1351413622191.jpg-(23 KB, 300x300, mammoth.jpg)

There's a short story in this book about a mountain man doing these sort of things. He's hired to find out why some chinese workers are disappearing to finds that a chinese shaman summoned a dragon so that the workers would worship him. He ends up shooting the dragon with a bullet filled with peyote and give it a nasty trip
He also rides a unicorn with it's horn filed off.

>>21322206
yeah we can call it "Ritual" something or other, each character has a ritual of sort, a prayer, a gesture, stuff like that. Healing items should be "Charms," "Idols," and "Souvineers" stuff like that. We cann call our buff items "Medicine" and base it on alchemical potions and snake oil items.

>>21322241

In that vein, there's another short story I remember (entirely different book) about a mountain man guarding a spring he believes has healing powers.

>>21322249
>>21322206
>>21322142
I love this. It reminds me of a story of an old west shoot out where a man was shot at over 30 times in a firefight and every shot was just a near miss. Holes in his boots, hat, duster, even his holsters.

>>21322249
>>21322206
>>21322188
>>21322142

Well how about health being Luck + Stamina, so "Ritual" isn't just chanting or whatever but also taking time to rest your muscles and get your breath.

>>21322268
you know if we go this route we should throw out the alchemists entirely and stick to the luck stuff. It lets us keep tall tales of men who areshot at a hundred times, holes in their clothing but not a scratch on their body, and ditch stuff that clashes with the old west feel too much. (I too want chinaman monster hunters who are after hopping vampires that killed his folks)

Also check out that site on native american folk lore, there's a deer woman, she's eerily beautuful and she transforms into a deer and tranmples her victims to death. Clearly a malignantspirit worshiper.

>>21322274
We'll describe it as a combination of luck and good habits, cardio and little things that help you keep your cool in combat and keep fit and ready to deal with whatever threats come your way.

>>21322274
Basically shrugging off the minor wounds and not taking the big ones?

What would the stats be?
>Proposition A:
Shooting: How well you shoot
Brawling: How well you fight
Luck: How lucky you are
Stamina: How in shape you are
Faith: How close you are to the other side
Smarts: How learned you are/how well you learn
Heroism: How well people regard you/charisma

>>21322328
7 rules 7 stats

>An evil spirit that possesses people and causes them to turn into deadly animals and/or go into a murderous rage. Assassins, or Carib people seeking revenge for a slain relative, sometimes invited the Kanaima spirit into themselves by taking certain drugs or conducting certain magic rituals.

Oh, hey, check that out. Kainama, we could have all kinds of Kainama, bug Kainama, bird Kainama, Snake Kainama. A lot of potential here.

>>21322336
>>21322328
I support this course of action. 7 rules, 7 stats seems to make sense. 7 being a lucky number our fixation on luck and the aquisition thereof should probably be a theme.

>>21322295

Why throw out alchemists? They would at most be dudes making poisons, explosives, and such in the field, and its not like they can craft a bottle of explosives in the middle of a fight. Even if you had a pack full of the right ingredients to rapidly craft a poison, its not like you could really add it to your ammo that fast.
Alchemy would just be a skill check for crafting special ammo and such, know what you are up against? craft ammo that targets that critter, gain a bonus vs that critter. Or a skill for crafting weapons, but I think that might be best left to npcs, hell alchemy might be better off left to npcs depending on how many rules you want this thing to have.

>>21322328

Might get a bit clunky, I dunno. Could just narrow it down to fewer 'core' stats. This is probably going to end up as a dicepool system anyway.

Unless you want to keep the theme of 7, of course.

I reckon the badge/symbol should be minimist. It doesn't make sense for a secret organization to have their rules on the back of it. They just need little cufflinks or a small pinned badge or similar, enough to reckonize each other on sight.

>>21322375
I was thinking more along the lines of the 40k RPG's d100 system. again, just brainstorming

>>21322373
I was always thinking that alchemy would be an NPC thing, but maybe it should just be replaced by chemists and snake oil salesman. After all we're going for an old west style of thing.

Maybe we can have alchemy texts and what not but now that I consider it Chemists and Snake Oil salesmen make way more sense.

Keeping them around to make anti wendigo ammo and what not is a good idea though.\

>>21322373

>depending on how many rules you want this thing to have.

It could go ultra rules light, for example. At the simplest, a game like this would have three stats representing the pool of dice you have available for solving problems.

>Fighting: arriving at a solution with your gun, knife, tomahawk, or what-have-you
>Know-how: arriving at a solution via your knowledge of the creature or dilemma confronting you
>Mojo: arriving at a solution via uncanny luck or seemingly supernatural means

This makes for interesting conflicts. What happens when a good fighter gets into a problem that needs know-how to solve? Etcetera.

This would give the whole thing a pulp feel, but rules-heavy is more /tg/'s thinig.

>>21322409
I like it, but I worry it'll end up too specialist. Which can work with this setting to be honest, but isn't always for everyone.

>>21322393
pentaxcle badge, hat pin, cuff links, rings. Something that displays an inverted sheriffs badge, maybe have a big old 7 on that star?

Also we could simplify the stats, I'm leaning more towards d6s (a lot of them) than d100s but whatever the hell. As long as it works I'm happy.

>>21322418

Yeah, exactly. The temptation would be to just dump all your dice in one thing.

So about health, PCs have luck based avoidance health, but if we are killing monsters do they get luck, plus real health, or just health, or what? Because one hit KOing monsters would be a bit out of place.

Also PCs, when they run out of their luck they shouldn't just die, maybe they just get knocked out or wounded, suffering a modifier to all actions. So maybe past health maybe PCs have a few actual hit points for how many actual hits they can take, like one or two, and for each one lost you suffer like 20% or so modifier against all actions

>>21322419
And always the iconic black hat on their head.

Well it does kinda depend on how detailed we want the combat, if we want abstract then d6 system works well, if we want detailed I'd lean towards d100's so that people are throwing around 20 dice ever time

>>21322409
I've always liked systems that have a heavier emphasis on story elements, and that would suit the setting. Hell if you want a rules heavier system you could just adapt shadowrun or whathaveyou for this.

In the meantime I like the fighty-smarty-lucky dicepool system you're proposing.

>>21322419

yea I like the idea of having lots of different but small symbols. Could the inverted sheriffs badge have 7 "points" rather than a actual symbol

>>21322437
I'd say the opposite of PC's lots of health but little luck

And that's what I was thinking, having a luck buffer then bad things like scars and losing eyes after that's gone.

>>21322419

Buttons, even. The way people have coats whose buttons are actually just a rosary.

Guys, nothing says we can't do both. We're /tg/, we have no overhead and plenty of time. We could do two rulesets to go with the setting. A rules-light one, and a rules-heavy one too. Just release two PDFs.
The World (all the fluff and the rules-light ruleset)
The [something appropriate, I'm bad at names] (the rules-heavy ruleset)

Just letting you all know, thread is archived on sup/tg/.

>>21322441
>>21322437
always a black hat, always an inverted sheriff's badge somewhere, always a number seven displayed somehow.

As for combat I think more abstract with the GM encouraged to describe the happenings as a tall tale would work.

Lets say the monsters have the same basic stats as the PCs to make designing them easier (that means "Gumption" as an HP stat, when you "Run out of Luck" your gumption takes hits instead, once you're out of gumption you're unconcious or dead or something.) They have luck, and gumption, and during the fight you can describe them getting fingers chopped off, eyes gouged out and have them keep coming because, seriously... these are monsters they can take that kind of damage. You however can't your hat gets knocked off, you dodge a slash of claws just in tie and get a cool facial scar. You barely managefd to jame your rifle stock into the creature's mouth.

Combat should be described like an old spaghetti western dime store novel, fast paced and larger than life.

>>21322443
You can cover that pretty well with a broader system, but I do see what you mean. Again, I just don't want people being the Mojo-Know How-Fighting Tanks and two people to just kinda help when they are needed elsewhere. I'd say at least split close and ranged fighting.

>>21322490
>Black Hats: The World
and
>Black Hats: The War

>>21322507
Not bad. Not bad at all.

>>21322494
I like this. Maybe just do quick opposed stat rolls in combat (with stat modifiers/whatever) and narrate how it goes down. Maybe some mods if you try to inflict status ailments.

>>21322459

One idea for hitpoints is making the superstitious side a bit more tangible". When a PC gets shot and loses 20 Hp or whatever, it's described as the bible in his pocket taking the shot, and the PC getting an almost cracked rib. He'll have to repair or replace it later, as well as rest.

Or he dives for cover, losing his doll bone charm out of his pocket and cracks his head on the ground, but the bullet misses.

So basically:
Charms and minor injuries represent HP.
Charms are physically lost or ripped to bits when they are "used up".

>>21322507
Oooh, nice.

>>21322495
You do have a point, Rules Light systems aren't for everyone, and I'm kind of asucker for point buy systems, so we probably should develop a d100 style system and a d6 style system. One focused on strategic combat, the other focused on story telling.

Fuck can you imagine the miniatures for a game like this?

>>21322534
>Fuck can you imagine the miniatures for a game like this?
Oh god.
On the one hand I'm imagining using those little plastic cowboys I had as a kid.
On the other hand I'm imagining a high-quality custom mini of an ex-confederate marksman with his trusty Sharps.

>>21322527
This.
This is a good idea and you should feel good.
The only downside is it means depending on how much "Luck" the PC has, they have a shit ton of charms.

File: 1351415984242.jpg-(115 KB, 546x401, Both.jpg)

>>21322548

Generally preferring a narrative focus, I may try to adapt this to a FATE based system.

>>21322548
Both hands are awesome, by the way.
>>21322549
>The only downside is it means depending on how much "Luck" the PC has, they have a shit ton of charms.
Or maybe Luckier characters don't lose charms as often? I mean how often do you see someone who's really lucky lose or break shit?

>>21322527
ooh this is good. Gumption can be like 1/4th to 1/2 your luck, and you start hitting that after taking lots of damage. You stack up on "charms" which can be, like you said, a bible. a doll, a lucky coin, a necklace. and instead of taking luck damage you destroy the charm. The Dark Man, our GM figure, describes how and why your charm gets destroyed and tries to get a sense of desperation or whatever is appropiate with this monster you're facing.

>>21322549
>>21322560

Thanks. And yea I figured there would need to be some kind of top limit depending on the character stats

>>21322560
>The Dark Man, our GM figure
I like that name, and I'm not usually one for fancy special names for a GM. Even better if we work the idea of "The Dark Man" into the lore somehow.

I think for the d100 system, a simplified version of the 40k RPG system would be good, maybe decreasing/adapting/consolidating a lot of the skills to make it easier on ourselves to start, then having "Luck" be wounds and crit damage could be health. Maybe double luck since they are fighting much higher tier badies with less awesome stuff?

>>21322559
every time you use a charm you roll a dice of some sort, on a failed roll the charm is destroyed. Luckier characters get studier charms and a dice roll to reflect that.

>>21322586
Yknow, I think we should work on The World, first, then we can kinda scale up for The War.

>>21322583
Also I third The Dark Man, maybe he can be some mythic figure who started the Black Hats?

>>21322583
well usually a variation on "Story Teller," Or "Game MAster" Will do. But this is a game about cowboys, indians, preachers, and monsters. It should be loaded with superstition.

Also we need more Johnny Cash references...

>>21322609
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUXkDrZ1z2k

>>21322609
Rings used to bind demons, called "Rings of Fire"

>>21322607
I'm the Anon who came up with the name the Black Hats (thank god I didn't use midnight riders) I approve of the Dark Man being the founding Black Hat.

>>21322589

I kinda like the idea of a hunter like figure sitting next to the campfire carefully repairing a doll his mother gave him; This doll is only damaged when he gets down to 5 HP, while other less important charms are just outright replaced.

Oh ohoohohoh; How about the charm a black hat drops when he dies is his tarnished badge?

Oldfag here.

I did this using the old MSPE rpg. Worked really, really well.

>>21322634
THIS, this is SO evocitive I love it!

>>21322622

I also like black hats

The first Ku Klux Klan would be around during the 1860's
I think they should be dark wizards, I mean just look at the titles.
Plus you know wizards have no sense of right and wrong. They're pissed that they can no longer use black people as human sacrifices as easily, this is why they organize lynchings and the like.

>>21322622

'midnight riders' sounds so incredibly pornographic

>>21322634
oh that works, each Black Hat has a special charm, could be an old ragdoll his mother gave him, could be his wedding band, could be an old family bible. Regardless its his last line of defense.

Each Black Hat has a symbol, Most Black Hats wear badges, some prefer cufflinks or rings. However when they dies the monsters of the west have a tendency to collect their symbols of office and display them. You know you've entered the layer of the beast when you see black hat badges on display.

>>21322655
Perfect, don't you love evil people? They much such easy bad guys for games.
>>21322663
inb4 interracial porn

>>21322663
I am now picturing a series of trashy porno stories written about the Black Hats (but filled with wild inaccuracies) by the title "Midnight Riders".

So dark man is the DM, but also the founder of the black hats? Maybe a vaguely supernatural man(he wasn't really just came off that way) but when he died his spirit cut down the enemy that slew him with his trusty revolver. Clearly seen as a dark figure standing in the place his body fell.

Since then the entire organization has had something of a relationship with the dark man, him guiding, and protecting them. But he doesn't interact directly with them.

>>21322672
>You know you've entered the layer of the beast when you see black hat badges on display.
And once you bring it down, you collect the badges and take them back with you, so they can be either
Interred in some sort of hall of honor
or
Used again by newer Black Hats

>>21322683
Or perhaps an undying man, and since we are going for a "campfire tale" feel, he regals stories to whitehats (new initiates) to try and scare them off.

>>21322678
I would watch it ironically

>>21322697
Or maybe they just let outsiders THINK he's an undying man when in reality "Dark Man duty" is a task all Black Hats are expected to serve at some point, sharing their stories to spook off the ones who won't hack it, and give a base of knowledge to the ones who stick around?

>>21322712
Or maybe he's all of them.

I like a bit of mystery around who the fuck this dude is.

>>21322707
No I mean like an in-world series of crappy porno novels written (under a pen name) by some lonely widow who lives back East but heard a few rumors about the Black Hats through the grape vine. Hell, maybe get someone to writefag some excerpts as funny inserts in The World.

>>21322723
>And then, bare as the day he was born, save for his iconic black hat, Sheriff Tucker Ezekiel Falcon sprang at the vile Loup Garou, a wild and passionate look in his silve-blue eyes. No one interrupts his love making!

File: 1351417669112.gif-(1.77 MB, 300x174, Blessed Laughter.gif)

>>21322746
Thanks. You just made me wake up my roommate.

>>21322720

I like this the most. Rookies and even fairly experienced BHs don't really know what he is, and if he's the leader or whats going on. Have only very occasional interaction with him, maybe even just indirect interaction (a note or letter etc etc).

So, the player chooses a special charm that has say 5HP. This is a constant amount that does not right (The Wild West is a dangerous place). Then, if the players get other special charms they increase there HP but when they take damage these second charms are damaged and can't be replaced.

Eg. 1

Player has a wedding band (key charm) and indian pipe. So he has 5HP + 3HP for 8HP. He takes 4HP damage and then rests. When he is done resting he has 5HP as the indian pipe was destroyed.

Eg. 2

Player has a wedding band (key charm) and indian pipe. So he has 5HP + 3HP for 8HP. He takes 2HP damage and then rests. When he is done resting he has 6HP as the indian pipe cannot be repaired.

>>21322768
I like this, though in this example would losing the 5hp of the starter charm kill him? Or is it a buffer?

>>21322620
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA&feature=related

We cannot have enough Johnny cash in this thread, okay guys listen to this song and then think about the Dark Man. So our setting is definetly post civil war since that gives us a lot of cool toys to play with.

Now lets not do something lame and say that vampires or ghosts and whathaveyou were behind the Civil War. Instead lets say that all that death, pain, and human misery was a FEAST for the forces of darkness and the civil war was the place where 6 monster hunters banded together under the leadership of a man in black. The Dark Man, and his companions came to be called the magnificent seven by some, and they did ride around the battle fields of the civil war ignoring the war 'tween the states and hunting all manner of horrible monster, returning the dead to their graves, exorcising ghosts, slayintg demon worshippers and sorcerors and, it is rumored, averting armageddon itself by casting the Anti Christ himself into a fiery pit.

>>21322763
Or we could go full dread pirate Roberts

>>21322760
I aim to please sir
>>21322763
So mysterious Dark Man, also, how does everyone feel about newbs being White Hats? I like it, it pulls away from the overused "Green Horn"

>>21322812

I dunno if you want to enter into the intentions of the Dark Man. All that's known about him is that he's strong and big and founded the black hats, and maybe not even the first two.

The Dark Man's personality can be hinted in the World, but really that's the kind of thing you give the GM options for, rather than spelling it out.

>>21322810
No, I don't think The dark Man should ever be fully explained. It should be left entirely ambiguous, so people can come to their own conclusions, and the GM/The Dark Man should be encouraged to not actually include The Dark Man himself, lest his mystique be destroyed.

>>21322809
There are dozens, maybe hundreds of stories of the Dark Man, none agree on his last hunt. All Agree that he will return one day when the world needs him most and may god help us all for that may be the last trump.

The Black Hats were founded by the surviving members of his hunting band and to this day they fight on in his name, protecting the innocent from every threat the american continent can produce. Sometimes offering their services to other parts of the world, but mostly they stick to america, and dread, and yearn for the Dark Man's coming.

>>21322768

I see, could be complicated though. Hmm, how about that once charms take full damage they are gone, but damaged ones can be repaired. So you can still lose a good chuck of health for a while, but little "scratches" can he healed over.

It's basically regenerative healing but in chunks. You can still lose chunks until you get a new charm/token.

As a side note, we could call the important base health/luck thing a "charm" and the extra health/luck things tokens. hmmm.

>>21322809

I second this

>>21322768
I like this example, charms, a single main charm being something precious to the character, represent the character's help. As time passes a character aquires more charms that fit their character, like that indian smoking pipe you mentioned, a voodoo doll, a lucky playing card, and as they're struck in combat these things are destroyed. You could even have specific charms for fending off specific attacks.

Also recovered badges should totally be put on display in the middle of black hat compounds, shined and cleaned by rookies and such.

Also Calling the Rookies White Hats sounds good, maybe make it a play on being a virgin. What with white representing purity and all. Dying your hat black could be a somen ceremony methinks.

>>21322872
Maybe have lower LP items be stuff that can be bought and you have to "earn" higher LP items through RP and gameplay.

Example 1:
Jim lost his last spare charm, so he goes to his local which doctor and buys a 3LP shrunken head

Example 2:
After a harsh battle Jim returns to a local bar, getting into heated card game, after he plays his last hand his foe draws metal, thinking quick Jim throws his cards, blinding his foe while he gets to his feet. After the battle Jim gathers the cards, becoming a 10LP charm.

I find it sad that the likely-hood of this getting out of the: "Cool idea by /tg/ phase" is rock bottom

>>21322798
In my example, losing all the HP of the special charm means death.

>>21322903
Exactly, in a lot of other games you have stuff like rings of AC or whatever. In Black Hats you have Charms, weak charms are stuff you buy from whoever, like that shrunken head you mentioned, or locket with a saint's picture in it, or tacky budha statue

But as you Roleplay and adventure you'll get higher teir items, that deck of cards you mentioned, a lucky dragon charm given to you by a chinese man you saved from a horde of vampires, an old aztec coin taken from the cold, dead, hands of a KKK sorceror. You get the idea.

The higher tier the item, the more likelyu it doesn't break in combat, and the greater the likelyhood you'll be able to repair it during a rest period. sound good so far?

>>21322947
I don't like the idea of buying charms as it decreases the significance of them. My thought was that they were "rewards" of milestones and completed tasks. The horn of your first buffalo rather than something you can just buy at the shop.

>>21322947

I like it, I like it.

>>21322939
Speaking of which, does anyone have a good idea for the battle mechanics?

>>21322966
Each of the 7 stats has a value between 1-7.
This is the number of d10s you roll.
The objective is to roll a certain number or higher on the dice (this is dependent on the difficulty of the task).

Eg. 1

You have 5 shooting. You roll and get 1, 2, 2, 7 and 9. The difficulty of the task was 7 so you got 2 successes.

>>21322965
>>21322966
GOOD charms are milestones, ones that don't break easily, give high HP bonuses, and possible stat bonuses, weak charms are something like 3hp bonuses that are irreparable and break quite easily.

Okay note how gamma worlds 4thEd seperates guns into 1 handed, 2 handed ranged and not ranged. There are also guns and not guns for the ranged weapons. You can name your gun and list the type but I think figuring out precise damage for precise calibers is folly.

We can include a weapons upgrade system similair to the charm thing, as the character levels up he can switch to a different weapon or upgrade his current one, whatever fits the story.

To figure out precise stats we need a dice system...

>>21322965

Well there could be a limit on how many charms can be bought. Or maybe you could buy like 50 of the damned things, but only one of them counts for each fight.

>>21322965

How a bout a bit of both? You have one or two strong charms so it's easy to keep track of them, and it makes them more significant. These are ether earned or historical.

Weak charms are not things you buy in shops, rather they are a odd shaped stone you pick up from the river bed you're walking along, a twig man you make while on watch at camp,

i.e. these are small things you pick up while resting both your body and soul.

I think this also works into the idea of regenerative (where ever you are) health, but maybe you can only get a new one each day,so health is still slow to regain, making getting hurt more grim.

Remember the scene in "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" when Tucco goes into the gun store and takes apart the guns and then builds one gun out of the best parts of them all? That's how equipment works. Combining the different parts of a gun (3-5 parts I think would do).

>>21322966
well for d6, how bout doing it like risk!? Say attackers Attack Value vs. the defender's Defense Value. the max amount of dice being rolled being equal to the defender's DV.

Example:
>Attacker at AV 5, Defender at DV 3

Attacker rolls 3 dice, and defender rolls 3. The defender can allocate his dice to block the attackers. ties going to attacker

>Attacker rolls 2, 2 and 4. Defender rolls 2, 3 and 5. He blocks one 2 with a 2, the other with the 3 and the 4 with his five. He lost by one dice, so he takes 1 damage.

Then you roll the remaining amount of dice against his DV again.

>So 2 more attack dice against his 3 defense dice.

>>21322993
I think we should mostly stick to a combination of economics and storytelling convienance concerning charms. You can equip 3 charms to your chest, one to your head, and two to each limb. 12 charm slots, you can load each up with some crappy buff charms and later replace those with ones that grant bonuses against undead or give you 30+ health...

>>21323004
The amount of damage for each victory being based on say, weapon strength

>>21323001
Okay, i can see how that'd be cool but... it makes my gun nerd hurt.

>>21323017
Why? Isn't that normally possible?

>>21323004
I like that, it's simple and it's intuitive. I think this should be our battle system.

>>21323021
To a certain extent? But a lot of say, revolvers, don't have interchangable parts. The trigger mechanism of one might not fit in another,

>>21323021
I'm no gun nerd but...

yes...and no.

Okay lets say you you have a whle bunch of guns, for instance a 45. a 22. and a 9mm.

Now if you took apart all 3 of those guns how many compatable parts do you think you would have between thsoe pistols? Not many bro. Not many.

Which Is Why I support story based upgrades, better gun sights, blessed ammunition, stuff like that.

>>21323023
We could carry it over for other stuff too, like A:Bluff vs D:Scrutiny, or D:Sneak vs A:Perception.

A: attack skill, D: Defense Skill

And not a bad system from the guy who wanted to use d100 eh?

>>21323010

Hmm, I like charms representing just luck/health. Maybe we could call buff ones tokens? Also the idea of matching them to body parts feels a bit tacky; I get this image of a serious hunter/ranger type but hes covered in knicknacks.

>>21323046
I like the change.
But I also kind of like the idea of Luck and Health both being a thing. Maybe health could be like Crit Damage in Dark Heresy?

>>21323000
well with the buying stuff we always assumed it was story based. But this is a good idea, lets take this, take the 12 charm slots, and combine them. We'll throw in a stat or something for making charms, make the good stuff generams by the Dark Man and have that based on the story. meanwhile "cheap" charms can be generated by a player during each rest action.

>>21323040
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2WQGxRNpBc

"You see these charms are junk. Dreamcatchers, crosses, they're just trinkets sold to folks that think they're work gonna work. And in a way they do, because people think they do. But if you know they're junk, then junk's all they'll be. So you don't tell people the truth and you hope you keep the magic alive. Hopes and good intentions do wonders to keeping a man living. But it takes more then hopes and good intentions keep a man alive."

>>21323040

Barrel alchemically treated, enlarged chamber(for using magnum rounds), alchemic powder(vs smokeless and black).

>>21323064

Discworld witches?

>>21323057
>>21323046
12 charm slots, some for buffs, some for extra luck/health. health itself is like 1/2 to 1/4th your Luck and only comes into play when your luck is depleted.

Buff charms of course buff things like damage, defense, tracking ability, magic resistance damage to <insert monster type here> you get the idea.

What scaling of stats/damage/LP do we want? High or low?
Also: What stats do we want?

>>21323070
exzactly. We stat out the guns, accuracy, damage, critchance. ammo capacity, You pick one, upgrade it and then explain why. It's blessed, you added a scope, the bullets have a secret alchemical formula in place of the old gunpowder. stuff like that. Encourage player creativity.

>>21323074
something like that, magic and faith have an effect on the world, and one's ability to believe in something can hurt monsters. You lack faith you get hurt by the monsters.

Don't even have to be religious in the traditional sense we all have supertitions that we stick to. The dice gods for instance I always roll my dice in a glass skull candle container. We take confidence in small acts and those acts strengthen us agains What Lurks In The Dark.

>>21323088

This is actually pretty good. Not too mechanically complex, when your luck runs out you get hurt, you get a few buffs, and allows for good storytelling of how you dodged that claw but are still perfectly capable of getting shot in the chest.

>>21323061

What he actually does there is take the three main components of three Colt Navies, and combines them into one.
That's the only way it could potentially work. Taking parts from different individuals of the same make.

>>21322328

>Proposition A:
Shooting: How well you shoot
Brawling: How well you fight
Luck: How lucky you are
Stamina: How in shape you are
Faith: How close you are to the other side
Smarts: How learned you are/how well you learn
Heroism: How well people regard you/charisma

Someone did this earlier.

Any modifications?

>>21323124
I agree. It give a good chance of both diverseness and specialization
>>21323122
Best upgrade system I've seen so far for any game. It's so simple it makes me wonder why I haven't seen it used before.
>>21323004
>>21323012
I like this for the combat/damage system.
>>21322328
>>21323136
This for the stats

>>21323124
Exactly, we stick to a sort-of realism and do our best to support the superstitious environment by making superstition itself a gameplay mechanic. Charms in general should be based on a character's belief system. A preacher, an Injusn, an Ex-Confederate Sniper, and a an Ex-Chinese Rail Worker are all going to have very different charms.

>>21323107
High LP, low health, moderate damage. It's a game about hunting monsters not dying horribly. Obviously some monsters will be more dangerous than others, I wouldn't take on a ghost for instance without an excorist handy but if you dismember and burn a vampire they'll probably stay dead.

so something like 20-25 LP for a level one character with a d6 single hand weapon and a 2d6 double hand weapon.

>>21323143
Okay. Or maybe average damage out to keep it simple? Like 3 per success for unarmed, 6 for one handed, 9 for two handed, plus or minus bonuses for magnums and charms. Or less depending on how many die we roll?

What we've got so far
well for d6, how bout doing it like risk!? Say attackers Attack Value vs. the defender's Defense Value. the max amount of dice being rolled being equal to the defender's DV.

Example:
>Attacker at AV 5, Defender at DV 3

Attacker rolls 3 dice, and defender rolls 3. The defender can allocate his dice to block the attackers. ties going to attacker

>Attacker rolls 2, 2 and 4. Defender rolls 2, 3 and 5. He blocks one 2 with a 2, the other with the 3 and the 4 with his five. He lost by one dice, so he takes 1 damage.

Then you roll the remaining amount of dice against his DV again.

>So 2 more attack dice against his 3 defense dice.

Rules of the Black Hats
1: Never Hunt Alone, you will die alone.
2: You never have enough bullets and you never have enough gun.
3: Pick a god, any god, you just might get lucky.
4: You always carry a blade, it will come in handy when you least expect it.
5: If you think it's dead you haven't shot it enough, if you don't have a body, it's not dead.
6: If it's dead that just means you have to fight its ghost.
7: Do not kill a man unless the man is in need of killing, ghosts are nasty sons of bitches.

>Proposition A:
Shooting: How well you shoot
Brawling: How well you fight
Luck: How lucky you are
Stamina: How in shape you are
Faith: How close you are to the other side
Smarts: How learned you are/how well you learn
Heroism: How well people regard you/charisma

>>21323141

Would we need some kind of insight or percepcion? Actually I suppose they could be rolled into heroism and shooting respectivly

>>21323154
>>21323154
Continued:

So, the player chooses a special charm that has say 5HP. This is a constant amount that does not right (The Wild West is a dangerous place). Then, if the players get other special charms they increase there HP but when they take damage these second charms are damaged and can't be replaced.

Eg. 1

Player has a wedding band (key charm) and indian pipe. So he has 5HP + 3HP for 8HP. He takes 4HP damage and then rests. When he is done resting he has 5HP as the indian pipe was destroyed.

Eg. 2

Player has a wedding band (key charm) and indian pipe. So he has 5HP + 3HP for 8HP. He takes 2HP damage and then rests. When he is done resting he has 6HP as the indian pipe cannot be repaired.

>>21323136
I think this covers it personally, we can apply each stat to original seven if we feel like getting mythic.

>>21323141
I always found the need to come up with comprehensive stats wierd, its just number on paper, alter the numbers within the GMs limitations and then come up with your own explanation. In a video game I'd give a guy 6 visual effects for upgrading his items and let him choose from a drop down of statistics for the modifications, throw in some fluff when he speaks to characters based on his upgrade choices.

this way we can have guys using alchemically modified guns, blessed weapons, and the latest thing from germany all in the same party with no one missing out.

File: 1351421713481.jpg-(42 KB, 600x400, Kawaii.jpg)

>>21323154
>TFW the combat system and the stat line were your idea.
Feels good man, glad I could help. Now off to bed with me.

Keep the 7. (Possible catch phrase/motto?)

>>21323167
>Keep the 7

Maybe more of a way of saying "good luck", though with a bit of a deeper meaning to it.
Kinda like "May the Force be with you"

>>21323153
that works too, were making the simpler version here so the most customizable, yet numbers friendly approach is what is desired here. obviously have to apply stuff like no using rifles without a penalty in CQC and pistols have a penalty at X range you get the idea.

>>21323165

I agree. Let each PC upgrade their weapon the way they want to that fits with their character; it'll do the exrta damage/hit-rate regardless of the fluff they add

>>21323189
Basically try to keep it as open and dynamic as possible so you can make a true Western Legend.

>>21323182
>>21323167
Always feels good when your idea gets used.

But "Keep the Seven" as a "force be with you" style saying is pretty Cash. Obviously refers to the rules and I like to think it refers to the original sevem founders of the Black hats, the more meanings you can add the better.

>>21323203
yeah that works, at least for the Rules Light version we should try to be as pick-up-and-play as possible, yet still add enough detail so Xiao the grenadier and Cletus the Sniper look, and act different in combat.

Random bit of fluff: The signature gun of Hard Caliber Black Hats are Seven shooters, each round etched with one of the rules/name of the original founders.

>>21323189

Ok, how about we make up a quick sinereo and explain how we'll use the stats/roll hits etc

>>21323219
Random bit o' fluff 2: Either the original founders or the top 7 Hard Calibers are called The Ring Of Fire

>>21323219
I like that one a lot, I'm definetly seeing the Black Hats as a sort of old west knightly order dedicated to the eradication of monsters that plague mankinds. Only they take anyone they can get and use any (sane) advantage against the monsters they fight. Racism and Classism seem quaint after you've faced down walking corpses, ghosts, and devil worshipers methinks.

>>21323230
How about Cletus the Sniper and Sheriff Tucker Ezekiel Falcon vs a Vampire?

Cletus has a two handed rifle, Tucker has a six shooter, vampire has it's claws (counting as one handed melee)

>>21323239
"Like the Dark Man once said: Every man is a slave to death, so treat them as your equal."

>>21323219
>The signature gun of Hard Caliber Black Hats are Seven shooters
YES
>each round etched with one of the rules/name of the original founders.
Ehhh. Maybe the cylinders.
Also, I don't think the names of the Original Seven should be known. If anything, they should only be known by epithets or titles (maybe, as >>21323165 suggested, epithets equating them to one of the seven stats)

>>21323230
Okay we have a preacher, a china man, a union solder, a confederate soldier, and an injun.

Lets stat these guys, each of them gets a weapon, one ranged weapon, one melee weapon to start with, and 2 charms, one buff, one signature charm.

You of course can have throwing knives, crossbows and long bows instead of guns if you see fit, each of those has their own story related advantages.

>>21323247
What's average? 2 out of 7 for stats? Gives some room for growth.

>>21323257
lets have the epithets of the founding seven, the ring of fire, on the cylinders. Obviously we have The Dark Man, representing faith methinks, feel free to disagree. After that we need 6 more titles, each on a stat.

>>21323247

Ok, let me try:

Celtus is
shooting: 4
brawling: 3
Luck: 1
Stamina:1
Smarts: 1
heroism: 2

So that evens out to 2

captca psalm eabomb

>>21323277

Forgot faith, say 2

>>21323257
So
>The Shooter: Sharpest eye you ever seen
>The Fighter: A wild man who made the Apache seem tame
>The Lucky One: In all his years not a single round hit him
>The Strong Man: A Strong man, built like a Buffalo and fast as a horse.
>The Preacher: Saved our souls and blew the guilty to hell
>The Scholar: A strange man for out east, book in one hand, bottle in the other
>The Face: Whenever someone needed the to woo a barmaid or convince a mayor, it was him

>>21323277
>>21323283
was gonna mention that a man named after one of the Popes should have a decent faith stat.

Okay this looks good to me. We'll give cletus a hunting knife, and a sniper rifle (feel free to specify which kind) sniper rifle is two handed so it does 6 damage. hunting knife is one handed so it does 3 damage.

Idea for duel wielding: Have two handed weapons do, say, 7, but give duel wielding some extra dice?

>>21323277
>>21323283

and he has a rifle of some kind (i'm not good with guns)

Hmm the Sheriff,
Sh: 3
B: 2
L : 2
St :2
Sm: 1
H: 3
F: 1