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The idea of purple is that it fits between Blue and Black, being more reactionary than blue with its unique Interrupt cards and having elements from both Blue, Black, and Red.

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Interrupts exist outside of the stack, interfering with elements currently on the stack and changing it while the stack is being resolved. They can be played faster than Instants, making them a powerful element.

>>21777264
did you unironically make this card

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This sixth color opens up a venue for MTG that we haven't really explored, and I'd love to see your guys thoughts on this. How does this sit with you?

>>21777264

Haahahahahahaha

>>21777259

I really do not like this concept. Something I like about the colors is their simplicity and elegence. You look at a color and you know exactly what it will do. You look at a combination of colors and know what they will do.

Your idea for Purple (and the cards you have created) are way too embedded into the nuances of the rules.

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>>21777274
Whoops. Wrong version

>>21777278

What venue hasn't been explored?

>>21777259
The Stack cannot resolve.
"... until the Stack is empty." would work, though. Nice mechanic, too.

>>21777264
Broken as fuck. But you don't have to write "being cast" since a spell is only ever on the stack.

If you plan on making new timing rules for interrupts, though, just don't.

Inturrupt was a thing
The old instants where called interrupts
Love the concept though, keep it up

>>21777278
Sorry, basic land for purple was going to be cave.

>>21777294
But part of that problem is that those colors cover every possible niche of elements - Purple is meant to create a new one that adds complexity to the game.

>>21777278
I don't like it very much. Adding a color to the color wheel would ruin the whole setting. New Phyrexia's approach was way better.

Also, to me MtG was never about progress.

>>21777302
Thanks for the wording clarifications. But I'm a bit confused as to why a new timing for Interrupts wouldnt be a good idea?
>>21777305
It was either Cave or City, depending on which emails were being thrown around.
>>21777304
And now we're bringing it back.

I just really want to see Purple do something special, but sort of... obvious. I feel like fucking with the turn structure or stack is kinda lame.

The way that mechanics like Discard, Drawing or Graveyard manipulation just "feels right"...there has to be an angle not explored yet....

>>21777309

What new niche? Purple just seems to be more focused on the rules of the game rather than being a metaphor for the human condition.

>>21777316
The original email thread was about an Alternate reality Magic that had Purple always be a thing. Time Spiral was kinda weird like that.

And Phyrexia's approach made things get out of hand quickly.

love the idea, op, but you arent executing it well.

>>21777326
>I feel like fucking with the turn structure or stack is kinda lame.

This. It's so wrapped up in the rules that it's even harder to imagine these cards being actual things or spells that planeswalkers are casting.

>>21777326
So instead you'd prefer to see Discard/Draw/Graveyard effects instead of Stack-based effects?
>>21777332
The niche of "Interrupting your opponent because you're a U/B jackass"

"All artifacts need now purple to pay their colorless mana cost"

I like the original idea for purple myself. Planar Chaos was going to be a part of time spiral that had other dimensions in which colors worked in different ways. Purple was going to be a sixth color for that set only, it was going to have the basic land "cave," and it was going to divide the color pie into 6 slices as opposed to 5. So that in the dimension in which purple exists as a color, it feels like a natural color that developed from the beginning, not a new color being added. They weren't going to add many new features, if any, to the color.

>>21777344
>>21777352
Then how would you implement something like this? Instants? Split/Second?

Because I'm a superduperfucking casual in magic, the most filthy, wretched casual you could possibly imagine, I want to give some input that isn't based on rules.

Purple needs a better symbol than what it has. The shape is jarring and unappetizing to the eye. It needs to have more flow. And correspond with "City" more concretely.

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>>21777278
playing with the stack and the timing of spells/instants is far too daunting/metagame for new/casual/most players. Blue has plenty of metagame fuckery anyway.
Not only that, each existing color is its own thing, and doesn't draw elements from the other colors like this proposed purple.
And ravnica had some sweet city lands.

>>21777360
But that doesn't make the color feel unique - why play purple when you can play Blue or Black?

>>21777324
Mostly because it's named Interrupt. Maybe give it a different name? Old spells that were called Interrupts have been errata'd to instants. If a player came across an old card with the type interrupt, and interrupt was brought back as a type, they would believe it was actually an interrupt, and it would cause a great deal of unnecessary confusion. I don't really think a card type that doesn't have to use the stack besides land is a really good idea though. That's just way too powerful.

>>21777372

Well Instants and Split Second are pretty universal across all colors and are already powerful enough, I don't want to see a color who's entire shtick is Split Second and Instants

>>21777357

But that niche is already covered by B, U, and U/B. The design of the Instant card revolves entirely around interrupting your opponent. I don't see why it needs its own color since it already exists in all of the colors.

>>21777399
Interrupts weren't the 'old' version of Instants, they were their own thing.

Basically in the dark days of the batch, 'speed' was actually a thing. You could only respond to MOST spells with an instant or Interrupt, but you could only respond to an Interrupt with another Interrupt.

>>21777399

If it needs a new card type, think heavily on why it should exist. More justification beyond the mechanical. What part of the setting is being underrepresented in the card game?

>>21777384
Because in the alternate universe, blue or black doesn't have the primary abilities that purple has like it does in our universe. Outside of Planar Chaos, playing purple wouldn't make much sense, unless you wanted 8 counterspells in your deck or something (Assuming counter spells ended up being one of purple's primary abilities.) But in planar chaos, purple gets the best counter spells, blue gets the second best. And so on with other abilities.

>>21777400
The idea of purple is to make it a reactionary color at least - it exists between Blue and Black, after all.

Lets assume the following changes.
-City becomes Cave
-Remove the idea of Interrupts, replace with something more fitting to U/B that isnt Mill or Discard?
-Find a better logo
>>21777417
Hey gA. How are you?

>>21777433
Should countering be the main goal of Purple if I would be trying to go with an interruption based sort of deal? Purple is all about reacting - perhaps an alternate version of Mana Leak or something?

>>21777417
I never said they were the old version of instants. Read my post again. I said they were errata'd to instants. I'm well aware of how the game worked then.

>>21777357
No no I mean... let's get down to the basics, this is a card game. Interacting with the cards in certain ways is just sort of fundamental. It's sort of the "telos" of the deck to have cards drawn from it. And that naturally implies having cards held in hand, which implies playing them and discarding them, ect ect.

I honestly don't have an answer, but I feel like there must be one... Maybe something to do with the cards while their on the battlefield? thats kind of a unique thing to magic, compared to other more tradtional card games (where sometimes they're just automatically discarded).

Man... I feel like there's something. It's gotta be like so obvious that we can't even see it. Sorry if I'm shitting up your thread, I just also really want to see a 6th color. But it has to feel natural.

>>21777460
And what if we brought it back like that where you can only respond to Purple Special Type with other cards of Special Type?

>>21777435
The issue with creating a 6th color 20 years in is that if you put it "between" blue and black, it's not going to feel natural.

Red exists 'between' black and green. It shares some functionality with each color, but is distinct from each. It doesn't feel like the bastard child of both, leeching off of each parent.

Purple would. Purple would be leeching off of blue and black's identity and mechanics. This late in, there's really no way you can give it a solid identity that doesn't make it just feel like U/B.

>>21777467
Don't feel bad at all! This is great help for designing this. I want it to be a thing to show you guys at some point so learning other viewpoints other than my own.
>>21777483
That is precisely why I want to give it a unique feel through an entirely new card type. Something that gives it a mechanic that isn't around (Interrupts) or something entirely new (Effects that revolve around the Stack).

Mana Blender
PPPPP(purple)
Creature Artifact 0/0
Flash
Mana Blender can only be casted during your opponent main phase.
Put two Blend Counters on Mana Blender.
Each time your opponent plays a spell, put a Blend counter on Mana Blender, then counter that spell unless your opponent pays (1).
Remove a Blend Counter, During the next turn all mana sources produces only P instead of their desinged color.

>>21777453

I really do not like this. It sounds like ye olde Blue. Just reaction with weak creatures.

Also the idea of giving another color counterspells and making it be the counterspell color sounds like a really really horrible idea.

>>21777503
Why should this card not be blue?

>>21777469
Then it would simply be too powerful. Especially if they were control based spells. You can't even respond to them with other cards of the special type. They don't use the stack, so they don't wait to resolve. You cast them as if you're playing a land with a cost. You pay the cost, then it resolves. No priority is passed. That's it. Way too powerful.

>>21777522
Because of purple reasons.

>>21777523
I see. Assuming that Purple Special Type wasn't outside of the stack. Lets assume that now it does - It still resolves and such, but when cast, it needs to be responded to through PST or another colour's weaker version of PST or such, and the stack resolves down to it again. Its in between Split Second and Instants in terms of speed.

>>21777498
But a new card type is going to feel really weird, unless you put it heavily in Purple and sparingly in other colors. If it only exists in Purple, then that's very unnatural. You don't see any other color having a card type that no other color has.

And if you spread it evenly, then Purple doesn't have anything special or unique about it.

I mean no offense, but there are many reasons why they scrapped the idea of adding a sixth color, even just for one set. Maybe one or two sets into Magic it could've been doable, but 20 years in? Not so much.

>>21777523
What about adding other drawbacks? Preventing other parts of the turn from taking place, such as not drawing next turn, or not playing a land?

Purple can be the color of 'making deals', where you trade parts of your turn for more BLINDING SPEED in casting.

>>21777545
"Power at any cost" is black's thing.

"Disregarding long-term in favor of the short-term" is red's thing.

>>21777250
You do know they had a concept for what purple cards would be, don't you? You don't have to make that part up. Purple, as it own color, used effects never before printed on cards (or at least rarely) due to the blatant over-powered nature of the effect, not necessarily due to its cost(s) but often the effect itself. The idea was scrapped in the long run due to R&D having aneurisms at trying to keep the balance, and they decided to make planeswalkers and mythic rares instead. Mythics keep the same idea (over-powered effects) without adding a brand new color, thus solving many of the issues a new color would have presented.

>>21777545
Interesting. I like this idea. Perhaps purple would have cards that don't have mana costs, but rather require you to skip parts of turns in exchange for it? Magosi had you skip an entire turn to time walk, so the flavor exists in Blue and Black for that.
>>21777542
Naturally yes. Like Miracles, colors would get them besides Purple - just not as many nor as potent.
I do appreciate your advice though.

I remember this from a long time ago. And then the time after that. And so on.

Purple as a color is a bad idea. It is basically 'Control: the Gathering', because it takes all the most hated aspects of Black and Blue and puts them into a mono-deck. Bad juju. Only thing that could be worse would be UW and doing the same thing.

No sir, I don't like it.

What you need to do is look at things that the game doesn't do yet, and mechanics that fell by the wayside, and things that still don't seem right with a certain color, and condense them into a new color, if you are going to do it. And I recall it being presented once as the new color being Orange instead of Purple, with Desert as the basic land. I like this better. You can play with mirages, 'DoT' effects, and a lot of other 'persistent yet shifting' mechanics and concepts. It strikes me as a better balance, and better fit into the color pie as a whole.

Of course, the other issue is that, as gA said, it's hard if not impossible to fit a new color it, so this is really all just for fun.

>>21777586
Yes, but Orange's mana symbol is a fucking Camel.

>>21777586
I understand that it needs far more work than what I've done so far - but your advice has definitely given me some stuff to think about. Thank you! Do you really believe that Purple cannot also have certain Orange effects in the case, as "Persistent yet Shifting" can describe much of MTG in general

>>21777539
Assuming it's not out of the stack, you now have to explain how its' different from instants and why instants can't do what it does. The stack doesn't use a speed system. Every spell besides instants inherently have, "Can only be cast on your main phase while the stack is empty." Lands have it too, but with "play" instead of cast and with a restriction of one per turn.

>Its in between Split Second and Instants in terms of speed.

I can see doing this, but not with a new card type, with an instant subtype. Instant - PST
"As long as this is on the stack, players can only cast PSTs."

Or an abilitly like split second. Purple Special Ability (As long as this is on the stack, players can only cast spells with PSA.)

>>21777599
The Desert symbol should be two dunes and a palm tree, or a sun.

Purple's symbol should be the mouth of a cave represented by a crescent, with two stalactites to further define the concept.

>>21777647
Sun is White.

Were I skilled with photoshop I would change it.
>>21777635
I had never thought about giving an Instant Subtype. Should purple effects still make use of the Stack as an object though? "Target creature gains +X/+X where X is the number of spells on the stack" to reward spell slinging in high volume?

>>21777647
That still bugs the crap out of me because we already have a Desert land..

>>21777599

Nah, I'd make it like a horizontal 's' shape for the shifting dunes. Would look snazzy.

>>21777613

You could re-invent Purple, but as a color, I keep seeing the 'Black + Blue' concept and I think it would be toxic for the game, and I am a Black and Blue player. Putting the control and timing aspects of those colors into a mono deck is asking for a borked meta, in my opinion.

Orange on the other hand could be the Land Destruction color, since the desert consumes everything. It could have enchants that deal with bleak effects and mana tweaking. Like an enchantment that makes the enchanted land only produce colorless mana, for example. Or an enchantment that instead of using -1/-1 counters to represent corruption, uses a phase-timed, state-based damage effect, which changes how the board behaves at a given time. Stuff like that.

>>21777673

That mechanic would be insane with Storm. Just saying.

>>21777673
This would be a very simplified, probably perfectly circular sun that would complement the dunes, not the sun as the main emblem.

>>21777673
I would like to see more effects the deal with the stack as an object. Many a player reach a sort of magic maturity without fully grasping the stack. It would be nice if more abilities dealt with the stack, and essentially explained how it worked.

>>21777679

This is an inherent problem with the 'Orange' concept, yes. You could just use the synonym trick though.

>>21777690
I keep forgetting Storm exists and isn't fucking banned yet.
>>21777680
Then how would purple be? If its mean to be a reactionary color, where as orange is a much slower creeping color, how would you mesh these together?

>>21777690
Storm is insane with storm. Adding another spell that has to be cast after you're done getting all your storm copies wouldn't break it any more than it's already broken.

Unfortunately, introducing a new color would require coming up with new 'dualities', which are already VERY broad in application to begin with. Said dualities are important, since they kinda have a direct impact on the sorts of creatures and spells included with each color. The ones we have already are:

Order - Chaos (White - Red)
Self - Other (Black - White; note this is NOT Evil - Good, and that one should never be included)
Nature - Progress (Green - Blue)
Life - Death (Green - Black)
Logic - Emotion (Blue - Red)

If you add Purple, this suddenly creates not only -three- dualities for the new color, but a new one for each already existent color. That's eight new basic concepts you're sandwiching in to an already broad system.

It would be a lot easier at that point to simply redefine the other colors (Probably White-Black, Red-Blue, and Green-Purple would be the only opposites, meaning three dualities instead of five, making things LESS complex (not necessarily a good thing)), which in and of itself would create all sorts of backlash and just be a general pain in the ass.

Ok let's pitch some ideas for what purple could do.
Luck effects: random discards, dice rolls, coin flips. Destroy random creatures, trading lands and creatures, Morph, creatures with transform, using the Exile zone creatively...what else? Purple has no archetype of player, so let's make this weird color the color for weird players who like strange combos and synergy.

>>21777703
But why?

The only people who care about the stack are those who love to dig into rules and those who play tournaments. Those who don't care about the stack will learn to care by playing against those people. The stack is an exploitable mechanism to explain how certain cards work but by no means a necessary part of the game that every player needs to know.

>>21777769
>Luck effects

That's red's schitck.

>>21777769
>>Coin flips
A traditionally red effect, but I could definitely see it being purple. Make Purple the gambling man's color, complete with die rolls and such.
>>Random Discards
More Red than anything else, used VERY sparingly.
>>Trading things
Blue and Black, but not very exclusive to either.
>>Exile Zone
Has potential. Depends on how though. Gaining Strength from the number of Exiled things? Copying Exiled things?

>>21777787
Phases are a similar abstraction, but players learn them via cards interacting more obviously with it.

>>21777787
I'm leaning towards making Purple the color of Exiles and Stacks.

>>21777801

Exile is hardly prevalent enough to warrant an entire color based around it. That being said, I would hate for Exile to be expanded upon because then it will become a second Graveyard instead of SUPAYOUDEADZONE.

>>21777805
But phases are much more necessary, I would argue, for they give the game a visible structure. Also phases are the hardest part of the game to teach new players, and even then not a lot of cards actively dick around with phases.

>>21777822
more temporary exile effects then?
Delaying of spells and creatures?
Not flicker effects, but say exiling a creature until two turns from now?

>>21777822
What about effects that give you a boost and give your opponent a minor boost as well? Add PPP to your mana pool, target opponent adds P to their mana pool.

>>21777843
Are you suggesting bringing back SUSPEND?

The Main Problem with trying to add a sixth color not simply lies in gameplay mechanics, but arguably moreso in the psychology of the game.

The colors all have these very set meanings and feelings on their own and with combined interactions with eachother.

Find where the psychology of magic is missing something, THEN try to add a new color to the game.

>>21777813

see

>>21777822

also see

>>21777738

What would purple cover on a human experience level that isn't already covered by other colors.

>>21777839
The stack is really simple, and is necessary to allow for multiple spells cast in response to things.

>>21777843
>more temporary exile effects then?

This has already been explored by all other colors, no need to isolate it to one.

>Delaying of spells and creatures

Suspend is universal to all colors so no need to isolate it to one

Not gonna lie, I think the mechanical approach to purple is bad because there are soooo many mechanics that can be explored. What needs to happen is to find a reason why those mechanics must be explored in a way that won't be covered by the other colors.

>During the Time Spiral block

facepalm.jpg

>>21777856
Maybe purple shouldn't represent the human experience? Maybe it should be really alien and weird, lovecraftian abominations and such. I feel like horrors don't get enough love in MtG, Purple could be a good home for them.

>>21777854
In a more expanded form, yeah.

>>21777856
Time. Future vs Past Duality maybe?
Deja Vu, unreality.
Purple's original concept was 'suddenly this color was always there'. Make it the color of that. Retroactive effects, healing damage done last turn, paying later for stuff now.

>>21777890
First tell us what mechanics you think need exploring

>>21777787
The stack is not an exploitable mechanism unless you'r playing with people who do not understand how it works. It works in a very specific way, with every spell in the game. It doesn't just explain how certain cards work, it explains how every card that isn't a land works.

Even in casual play, a poor understanding of the stack leads people to say, "Ajani's Pridemate doesn't get a +1/+1 counter when he triggers Soul Attendant's ability." Or, "I can doomblade your goblin while you're trying to sacrifice it to Goblin Grenade."

In these cases, and many others, you have two players who don't understand the stack, that both want different abilities to work a certain way, and have no way of solving their problem. Basic understanding of the stack answers these questions quickly and solves most game debates instantly. With a better understanding of the stack by all players, the game would probably lose about 80% of all its rules disputes.

I've always liked the stupid idea of purple as the "junk" colour, strange interactions, things that couldn't possibly fit in the other colours?
Purple.

The others have their roles, but purple, it is the maverick.

File: 1354049099077.png-(7 KB, 481x481, Orange Mana Symbol.png)

VERY prototypical Orange mana symbol. Please be gentle, it took all of 5 minutes to make.

I still stand by my notion that a new color isn't in the game's best interest, but that doesn't make this not a fun thread. Concepts are a fun thing to toy with, and I think it makes you a better player when you dissect the game and try to understand it so that you can create new things within it.

I may be in the Desert camp, but I support this thread as a whole for entertainment purposes.

>>21777894
So you're talking about a Reverse of Suspend and such?

>>21777861

>The stack is really simple

Not really. There are plenty of stack shenanigans with priorities and all that junk that get wrapped up with the existence of the stack.

I went 90% of my game life with just "you can only respond to your opponents shit with instance" and have been perfectly happy with it. Hell, I played with a friend that had a totally bitchin old-school elf deck that didn't even know about combat damage on the stack (back when that was a thing).

Any references to the stack, just as with phases, in actual cards should be used very very sparingly.

>>21777918
There's no reason Orange and Purple can't both be things.
>>21777917
So what you're saying is, Purple actually exists OUTSIDE the color pie? In the center perhaps, or just sort of out there?

>>21777918
Not monochromatic, not a distinctively single object, doesn't fit in with the game's style.

You get points for the effort, though.

>>21777920
It's hard to mechanically implement, but it's cool.

>>21777899

I don't think any mechanics that need exploring, there are just plenty of mechanics that can be explored. The question is, should those mechanics be explored and does that exploration warrant the creation of another color.

>>21777894

>Time.

That's blue.

>>21777926
There goes the idea for a Purple Instant - Gain Priority.

But I disagree - Stacks make things easily ordered if you understand Computer Science in any capacity

>>21777940
Not really. Put X age counters on something. Remove one a turn. When No Age Coutners, pay cost or do X Negative Effect.

>>21777930

I'm not saying they have to be. Just stating I like one better than the other, like I enjoy UB over WG, for example.

>>21777938

Yeah it needs color work mostly. But it was just an idea.

>>21777942
Once again, what mechanics are you talking about that you have in mind when saying that statement. Is it Kicker? Storm? Suspend? Persist? Modular?

>>21777901

>Even in casual play, a poor understanding of the stack leads people to say, "Ajani's Pridemate doesn't get a +1/+1 counter when he triggers Soul Attendant's ability." Or, "I can doomblade your goblin while you're trying to sacrifice it to Goblin Grenade."

Honestly, that's fine because those people roll with the rules for their casual games. It's not 100% necessary to understand all the rules unless you hit the tournament scene. And even then, they can just ask /tg/ or will be corrected by others should they ever broaden their horizons.

>>21777953
Have Purple vs Blue be a duality on time.
Blue is manipulation going forward. It changes what you're going to draw, what you can cast.
Purple is manipulation going backward.

>>21777962
They did that before. Vanishing, remember?

>>21777890

Almost every fucking mechanic has been used by every color at some point. making Purple the Color Of things means that it becomes Purple's 'thing'.

Suspend, Temp Exile, Stack Fuckery, Phase Fuckery, and in big multiplyer games, Turn Order fuckery, some counters that work by using the previous fuckery... Makes Purple the color of Time, bitch.

>>21777955

>Gain Priority

Isn't that Split Second?

Wait, are you supporting the Purple instant or against it?

>Computer Science in any capacity

Many, many people don't. Myself included.

>>21777992
>They did that before
And?

>>21778000
Stack is also a nice visual metaphor. If the game had you put spells you were playing down on the table, one on top of the other until they 'went off' it would be really easy to understand. Just like they do it in the DoTP, I think.

>>21777972
The problem isn't rolling with their own rules. Its that a lack of understanding of the rules causes players to butt heads and creates scenarios where two players can't agree upon how a certain event resolves. No one has to understand all the rules, except maybe judges, but the stack is a basic aspect of the game that more players should understand. Most problems come from a lack of understanding of the stack, because everyone avoids explaining it. Cards that interact with the stack specifically force you to explain to players how the stack works when using those cards. Their understanding in spell interaction goes up, and less arguing and unpleasantries come up as a result.

>>21777992
And when was the last time we saw Vanishing? We can add parts to it to make it a thing again. >>21778000
... Have you ever been to a buffet? Those stacks of plates? You put things on the stack, and then you remove the top thing in order.
>>21778009
Exactly!

>>21777917
Sounds like artifacts. I do like the idea of purple being something outside the existing structure but it sounds more like what artifacts are meant for,

>>21777969

Shit, all of them. By their existence there are all sorts of mechanics that can be explored or interacted with.

Imagine red creatures with ninjitsu, or even white ones.

Pretty much every mechanic can be explored in some way that hasn't already been done.

>>21778024
A better version of Ninjutsu that works with horrors might be a half decent idea.

>>21777996
In that tense, explain the psychology of Purple without using any of that from Blue.

The five colors may have greyareas between their ally-colors, but they all have distinctly unique psychology to them as well.

>>21777992
>Purple is manipulation going backward

wut?

Also how does this interact with the other colors? Blue is more than time, it just encompasses time.

>>21778009
It sort of does. The cards float above the table, but they do stack. DotP does a good job explaining the games phases and the stack, albeit maybe giving the impression that people have time limit to do certain things, which is incorrect.

>>21778019
Purple is the adrenaline surging spur of the moment intuitive reaction you have to things coming at your face.

>>21778009

But the stack is more than just "you pile things on and then they go off in order"

Everyone understands that aspect of the stack. You can explain it without even talking about the stack. Just by playing the game you understand it.

>>21778046
>>If you take more than 30 minutes to decide something I am going to fucking call a judge on you.

>>21778043
I pay five mana, and I've had this 1/1 since the start of the game. Or last turn you didn't deal damage to me.
It's terribly difficult mechanically to represent, but it's something that hasn't been done.

>>21778008

Vanishing is not color-specific, it is across all of the colors and all the colors use vanishing in a different way.

>>21778062
>ut the stack is more than just "you pile things on and then they go off in order"
>Everyone understands that aspect of the stack. You can explain it without even talking about the stack. Just by playing the game you understand it.
If thats the case, then why do players not understand the difference between on and off the stack?

>>21778062
Yeah, it's that but with effects instead of just cards.
Still, that's the central metaphor. All you have to do is fill in the effects and triggers within the stack.

>>21778069
I like this. "Gain life equal to the life lost since your last end phase." and things like "Untap target land used to pay for this spell, and then Do X." So its like you never tapped that land at all.

>>21778015
>stack specifically force you to explain to players how the stack works when using those cards

This is bad. Very, very bad. Have you ever played a tutorial where they explain everything ever? That is what playing as and against purple will be like. Why not do this explanation through the rare cards that do dick around with the stack?

Even with a knowledge of the stack, people will but heads. I've had shit explained to me that still doesn't make sense to me and I just roll with it.

>>21778055

That's red

>>21778069

But these cards already exist in all the colors. They are rare and rightly so, but they do exist.

>>21778119
>>21778130
So make it more common in purple?

>>21778100
>Gain life equal to the life lost since your last end phase

white

>Untap target land used to pay for this spell, and then Do X.

Green and or Blue (Rewind comes to mind). Hell you could probably do this with any color.

>>21778141

But it's already common in red.

Red is ADRENALINE GOTTAGOFAST OHSHITWEALLGONNADIEBUTYOUSLIGHTYQUICKER

That last one is also black.

>>21778130
Nothing has ever gone more than a turn back because it makes book keeping terrible. It's absurdly complicated. But it is new space.

>>21778145
>Undo your opponents last turn.

>Put a 1/2 token into play three turns ago. It must attack each of those turns if able. Sacrifice it next turn.

>>21778141
They made cards that untap the lands you used to cast them in common in Urza's. Turns out, they were really, really good.

Cloud of Faeries has been part of numerous combo decks over the years and is still used in Legacy enchantress, and time spiral and frantic search are banned or restricted.

>>21778160
What about "Restart your turn"?

>>21778160
>Undo your opponents last turn.

Horribly, horribly, horribly overpowered. Also depending on what you undo can be covered by the other colors.


>Put a 1/2 token into play three turns ago. It must attack each of those turns if able. Sacrifice it next turn.

I'm sorry dude, I see what you are trying to do but this ability would just create an unfathomable clusterfuck that is deserving of an Un-set. Do the players have to redo all of those combat phases or does the creature get free hits?

>>21778195

Sounds pretty blue. Wouldn't be surprised if there was already a blue card that does this.

>>21778195

Oh, there is also a white card that has a similar effect.

>>21778104
It doesn't take a 10 minutes tutorial to explain the stack. It takes like, 3 minutes at the most.

When you cast a spell, you reveal it from your hand, pay all costs, including additional or extra costs, and put it on the stack. While you're doing that, no one can do anything. Then you can do it again, still before anyone can do anything, for another spell or ability. Then you pass it to other players to do the same until no one has anything left to do. Then you resolve each effect, one at a time, from the most recent thing put into the stack, to the oldest thing. After each one resolves, every player again has an opportunity to put something new on it all over again.

Of course people are still going to butt heads even after learning about the stack. The stack isn't the only thing that ever causes rule disputes, it's just literally the most common one. So many disputes could be avoided with a better knowledge of the stack.

Cards that interact with the stack specifically, allow you to explain it much easier. It's easy to explain how trample works when you have a card that has trample on it in front of you. Likewise, if you needed to explain how the stack works, you can use a card that specifically deals with the stack to explain it. They get more images to go along with the ideas and it becomes easier to understand and remember.

>>21778196
Undo is kind of a blanket statement here. Damage done, cards played, attack phase, land drop, counters added or removed, etc.

They had to give Charmed Pendant "activate this ability only any time you could cast an Instant" because the game is not supposed to back up from milling the top card of your library.

Rewinding entire turns is just not a thing that will happen.

>>21778223
>Undo is kind of a blanket statement here. Damage done, cards played, attack phase, land drop, counters added or removed, etc.
"Return target spell on the stack to your opponent's hand."

>>21778239
It's called remand.

>>21778239
Remand as a simplified mechanic, kay.
You also have to untap the lands used to play it for it to be an Undo, and then it's pointless unless it also ends the turn.

>>21778217

But that's not the part of messing with the stack that I'm worried about.

I saw ideas for cards that would dick around with priorities or refer to effect specific cards that are in the stack. You can just explain it as "pile o' abilities" and people will be able to hop into the game and play. You don't need cards that mess around with the pile to explain how the pile works, they would just show players that it is possible to dick around with the pile, something completely unnecessary to playing the game.

>>21778244
What about "Target spell on the stack gains Split Second", forcing you to resolve down to that point on the stack?

>>21778239
"Return target spell to its owner's hand."

His name is Venser, Shaper Savant.

>>21778223
>Damage done

White (heal effects and straight up undo the damage done)

>cards played

Blue, black, white, red. Removal in general is the same principle just simpler

>attack phase

White stops it Red gives more

>land drop

Green lets you put down more lands and has cards that bounce lands. Blue has land bounce. Red has land destruction. Also artifacts and white probably has something. Black has some cards too.

>counters added or removed

Blue with bouncing but mostly artifacts.

>>21778282
"Target spell gains Split Second"

The only place spells can exist is the Stack, just like the only place permanents can exist is on the Battlefield.

White - Order and Unity
Red - Chaos and Destruction
Blue - Manipulation and, Ingenuity
Green - Growth and Simplicity
Black - Ambition and Corruption

What would Purple represent, in the form of a Cave or a City? From there we could start building sometime from first principles.

>>21778282

Why not make that blue? Hell I could see red pulling that too.

>>21778303
Already brought up, but it seems to be time related. Purple is Regression or Deja Vu.

What about a whole new set/plane with a different cycle of 5 colors?

Purple
Teal
Brown
Grey
Yellow

Well since purple has the possible land "cave" it could have a theme of the hidden and the unknown.

Spells that allow you to play creatures face down (Would need a very non dick player), Creatures with very large S/T but can only attack/block after being "released" or "excavated" by some spell effect. Powerful spells that trigger a turn after being played (akin to emerging from the depths).

Just throwing out so thematic ideas.

>>21778316

But blue already does that. Also all the effects that people have brought up to reflect this idea of regression are already covered by other colors.

Also, Regression or Deja Vu is not the same thing as the concepts represented by the other colors.

>>21778316
Not quite perfect, in my opinion. That's all very much in the territory of blue. I'm not talking about mechanics but more about the mindset or the "philosophy" behind the colour. It sounds pretentious but it's better than cutting pieces out of the already existing colour pie.

>>21778265
Counter spells dick around with the stack already. A lot. Having two spells that affect each other at all dicks around with the stack. It would simply be a spell that dicks around with the stack by itself, thus, needing a better understanding on how the stack works to be used or understood itself. The only result after that is making the player better equip to handle stack shenanigans when they get more advanced, or start playing against people that already use them.

I don't agree with messing around with priority either, players get it far too often to dictate it, and it can likely be done a better way anyway.

>>21778325
MSE editor already has a alternate color set of Yellow, Purple, Orange, Pink and Brown. I've always been interested in doing a custom set based on these.

>>21778337
HURR BLU

The fact that people are dismissing shit with "color x does this" when we're proposing shit that is done by EVERY color at once is inane. HURRR RED DOESN'T GET CREATURES, WHITE AND GREEN DO THAT[/spoiler[

>>21778303
City Version: Reaction and Perception (Persistent Battlefield effects that change how the game is played, such as Edric's ability or Doran's?)
Cave version: Mysticism and Unknown (Morph, Luck based effects, Clash, ect.)

>>21778337

>Spells that allow you to play creatures face down

Morph. Universal to all colors.

> Creatures with very large S/T but can only attack/block after being "released" or "excavated" by some spell effect.

Already done. Red has stuff that requires a creature to be played in order to attack. Wouldn't be surprised if black has things that need creatures to die in order to attack, etc.

>Powerful spells that trigger a turn after being played

Suspend, universal to all colors

>>21778325
To be fair, Grey is Artifacts and Teal is a lot better than Pink. Orange (with Wasteland as its land type) works better than brown?

>>21778325
Pointless, since it'll just be re splitting up the effects amongst new colors. Also Orange should be in before Grey.

>>21778337
Morph, Suspend. Not that it's a bad idea but we're going in circles a bit here.

>>21778347

We've brought up effects that haven't been done before, but they're a little complicated. See playing things turns into the past, or retroactive changes.

File: 1354051316602.jpg-(583 KB, 2111x1015, image.jpg)

>>21778325
What about helmets:The helmeting?

Let's just shift color abilities again

Red gets counterspell
Blue gets aggro
White gets deathtouch
Green gets burn spells
Black gets artifact removal

>>21778366
City idea: Non planeswalker emblem spells. Rewriting parts of the game's rules for the duration of the game

>>21778357
Then why not leave it at just having counter spells dick around with the stack. Hell, in most games having a whole bunch of stuff on the stack is really really rare and is often done by just "in response I do this" etc. etc.

>>21778337
face down cards are defined as being 2/2 colourless creatures with no abilities. Face down cards have mana cost 3. Morph was the ability to play creatures face down for 3 and then turn them face up for their morph cost.

>>21778363

I don't get your argument.

>>21778368
>Hey, I'd like to propose a new color! Red! It's about speed and reckless creatures!
>No. White and Green have creatures.
>Uh, Direct damage and creature removal?
>No, Black does that.
>Well, how about affecting the enemy's hand? (Wheel of fortune)
>That's blue. God, you suck.

>>21778386
More Emblems would be interesting. It needs a way to nullify emblems as well, but would certainly be an interesting way to do things. Perhaps emblems that give you additional draw, let you untap lands whenever you cast a spell, turn lands into creatures?

What about changing card types? Make enchantments creatures with PT equal to CMC? Like Bludgeon Brawl or something?

>>21778377

I have already addressed the problems with those effects.

>See playing things turns into the past,

In the case of creatures it creates a horrible rules clusterfuck. In the case of spells is pretty pointless.

>retroactive changes.

If this is the same as the "undoing" concept I have no idea how undoing something a player did is any different than the concept of removal.

>>21778386
Gain X 1/1 Rebel Purple Creature tokens where X is the number of emblems in play

>>21778424
During your first turn, you played a Delver.
4 turns later, I spend five and undo it. You never had the delver, it never dealt damage, it never attacked or blocked, etc.

>>21778437
WHITE DOES MASS CREATURES, SHEESH

>>21778415
>No. White and Green have creatures.

But they don't have speedy and reckless creatures. Red has a niche.

>Black does that

Um, not really. You can make the argument for loss of life but that is only a small part of black.

>how about affecting the enemy's hand

That is actually black and red rarely does that. Having the occasional card splash over into the territories of other colors is fine.

>>21778387
Because new cards are created constantly, the need to present new ways of doing things within the system comes up on occasion, and more stack interaction is a good way of doing this. We're already seeing it move in that direction with creatures like Nivmagus Elemental.

>>21778450

Actually yeah. Why not have this be White, Red, or even Green? Hell make them 1/1 fliers and it can be Blue.

>>21777930
YES, in the centre, it is all of the colours, it is none of them.

Thinking about it, in reality purple as a colour is a really really weird existance.

This is the way to make purple fit. By making it intentionally not fit.
Making it the Fool, the Jack the maverick and generally the wild card.

It shall be Enigma. The other colours are definable concepts.

Purple should be the concept of Mystery.
Not discoverance, exploration or explotation, but the mystery itsself

>>21778444

You are describing something horribly, horribly, horribly overpowered and complicated to keep track of since players will be required to not only keep track of their life totals, but also what creature dealt damage when among other things.

>>21778451
Right, then:
>Morph. Universal to all colors.

Purple FOCUSES on Morph. Niche.

>Already been done
THEN PURPLE WILL DO IT MORE OFTEN AND BETTER.

>Universal
>THEN PURPLE WILL BRING IT IN FOCUS, AND DO IT BETTER.

Goddamn. If every color does it, it does not belong to anyone. You might as well say doing damage and winning the game isn't allowed because it's universal, as well.

>>21778415
the difference being that red has a practical monopoly on direct damage- black only does drain'n'gain, life loss or -x/-x. No strait damage.
White focuses on defensive creatures and synergy, and green on acceleration and fatties. No other colour does small fast hitties.
Your example is shit and so are you.

Playing red feels different to playing any other colour due to the fast, agressive playstyle. Black comes close, but differs in that black has to sacrifice something but sticks around longer.
Purple, by contrast, feels just like playing blue. Control, wierd shit and silly combos. That's blue. You need to find a NEW playstyle for purple, not 'like blue but slightly different'.

>>21778476
Not saying they're good ideas, but they are new mechanics not claimed by other colors.

>>21778453

Eh, he's a rare so that's fine. You just don't want to print a bunch of cards like that, you know? You especially don't want an entire color revolving around the concept.

>>21778477
>Goddamn. If every color does it, it does not belong to anyone. You might as well say doing damage and winning the game isn't allowed because it's universal, as well.
Why not combine Morph with Ninjutsu in some crazy way? Some mechanic that lets you swap a morphed creature for one from your hand for it's special cost? That way its always a surprise!

Non-PW emblems would just be enchantments

>>21778502
Yes, that would be great. See? Trying to come up with shit instead of DISMISSING IT OUT OF HAND is much more productive.

>>21778463

>it is all of the colours, it is none of them.

Artifacts do this.

Also you are defining purple around the fact that it is impossible to define. How can you make cards around this concept? Can you make enough to warrant a new color?

File: 1354051957248.jpg-(2.35 MB, 2592x1936, 10colorpie.jpg)

We don't need just one more color, we need five more for a nice, even 10.

>>21778477
>>21778477
I'm OK with this. Combine it with purple as the 'cave of mystery' colour.

>>21778483

There is a reason it's not claimed by other colors or that it is claimed by other colors.

The regression example does not work for it either creates a rules clusterfuck or is already claimed by other colors.

>>21778506
Enchantments that alter the rules of the game itself. Emblems can't be targeted or interacted with at all, once they're in those are the new rules.

>>21778518
Sounds like we're making progress!

Gentleman, what should the name of this new mechanic be, and should it simply interact with Morph or incorporate Morph?

>>21778502
Honestly, kind of reasonable. If we expand face down cards to maybe also be spells.

>>21778506
Kinda, but focus them on rules changes not effects. Say, one that doubles the combat step, or makes flying be reversed (fliers can't block ground creatures). It's all stuff that can already be done, but make it a focus.

>>21778512

But why not make it an already existing color?

Why not have the morphing ninja be green since it becomes a big beasty dude? Or blue since it will draw you a card? Or black since it will destroy a creature?

It's a cool idea but has no reason to exist in its own color.

>>21778532
We have two separate possible design tracks here - City Purple with a focus on Emblems and Rule changes, and Cave Purple with a focus on Morph/Swapping

>>21778547
Why not make direct damage black, since it already has life loss?
Why not have speedy creatures be blue, since it messes with time?

>>21778553
Could combine them. Have cave purple be backalley dealings, out of the public eye.

>>21778366
Actually in the case of Cities, I'm thinking of Construction and Expansion. It kinda impinges on other colours a bit but I'd imagine it'd revolve around cornering your opponent and eliminating their options.

Possible card mechanics could include Settle: Sacrifice this creature and put a City into play tapped.
Or Colonise: If this creatures damages an enemy player, put one of their lands into their graveyard and put a City into play tapped.

I'd imagine lots of cards that revolve around either putting tokens into play depending on how many Cities you have out, or sacrificing your Cities for certain effects. The whole City theme makes me think of Land management more than anything else. Removing enemy Lands from play, increasing enemy mana costs while decreasing your own and accumulating Cities, using them almost as disposable ammunition against your enemy.

But this is all pretty green and white, isn't it?

>>21778553
Making Purple only one of those isn't that much design space. Do both. Go with Cave rather than City though.

>>21778530

You can't build a color around Morph since flipping a card itself does nothing.

What you will notice about Morph cards is that when they are flipped they do something. It is this "doing" that defines the color of the card.

>>21778547
Lets assume that for this design thinktank, it SHOULD be a new colour since it was always that colour's schtick.

You guys need to think of simple things that haven't been done, or don't get done often, like casting cards from exile and using the exile zone in other ways
It also needs to be attached to ideas and emotions, like the other colors
Instead of thinking of what's already there you need to think of new shit

>>21778282
Why not just bring back interrupts and batches? That was so much more fun than the current system.

>>21778562

Honestly these are good reasons but since those 5 colors have existed since the dawn of the game they already claimed their respective niches. No one needs to defend the existence of red since it already exists and there is no incentive to remove it.

>>21778578
>ice about Morph cards is that when they are flipped they do something. It is this "doing" that defines the color of the card.
Yes good. When the card is flipped, do X. Or when the card is shifted for something else in hand, do Y.
>>21778576
You're speaking the language of Green. Land in, land out. But the idea seems good for a different colour, like Orange was earlier.

>>21778575

>backalley dealings, out of the public eye.

Black, red, and blue.

>>21778593

Purple could be cowardice and avoidance.

Would make for interesting flavor text.

>>21778576
>But this is all pretty green and white, isn't it

Yup

>>21778601
And in Alternate Reality Magic, Purple has always existed and ergo, should be considered as if it has been there since the dawn of the game.

>>21778579

Wait, what should be it's own color? Morphing?

>>21778547
>>21778547
>Has no reason to exist in its own color
Because "Sneaky Motherfucker" can apply to every color - so it can be focused on and made into its own. Blue has it in terms of manipulation, black in terms of flavour, red in terms of mechanics, green in terms of mental image and white in terms of general flow - but Purple does it BEST, across all its cards.

When you fight purple, you don't ever really know what you're dealing with. You don't know whether that card he just played is a 3/3 or a 6/6. It's all in the rules, and you'll get to see the card when it's too late for you to do anything - but when it first comes out, you know jack shit.

Purple is un-knowledge. it is denial of knowledge. It is the destroyer of plans not through a spanner, but through a loosed bolt on the machine. Blue will create a plan to make sure that every spell is countered, but Purple would have put it out a turn ago. Red will throw a hbundred gobbies at it, but Purple will have put a hole in their way they never saw. Green will create a huge monster - Purple will make it meaningless. White will field an army - Purple will send it at his teammate. Black will lifesuck a creature - Purple will reveal that the creature has become a worthless Artifact doll, and has no life to suck.

Purple is the color of information denial and fuckery with the stack/phase order. There you fucking go.

>>21778513
Artifacts are in no way, All of the Colours and None of them.

Artifacts are a type. They just so happen to often be colourless. They include machines, golems, all that kind of thing.

Artifacts can also be coloured.

The idea of Purple being all and none. Is it might do anything. Anything that doesn't fit, anything that does. Weird random stuff can go into it.

I do like the idea of putting coinflips spesifically in it though. Purple would be none of the colours in the sense that it would do things they would never do.

It could be anything. Sometimes, in design you can come up with things that don't really fit, traditionally they got shoved into the closest fit.
Think of it like this, red has draw, but draw is really blue.
So the other colours have stuff that doesn't exactly fit.
This is what I'm getting at, purple can be the colour of the bits that never fit right and people will go, sure, that is purple, purple is crazy like that.

From what I read about purple, I dislike it due to the fact that it lacks a theme and philosophy behind it, which is what makes the various colors so interesting and able to fit in pretty much any setting you can think of.
Said that, if I had to make it, I'd put it in the center of the color pie. It would be a very ductile color, being able to do a bit of everything, but worse than any specific color at that, balanced by restrictions and costs. It would basically be very similar to a penta deck, without the need for a thousands expansive lands.
Its themes would be indecision, flexibility, reality warping and raw magical forces.

Some of its mechanics for example would be clone and shapeshifting (stolen from blue), and something like transmute but with cards outside of the game instead of the library.

>>21778623

Well then you will have to go and look at the Alpha/Beta cards and see what those don't cover and put Purple in there. This would fall apart when creating modern cards because you would then be required to alter already existing cards to accommodate this new 6 color design.

ITT: People outright ignore most if not all of the post regarding the psychology of the colors and instead try to focus on mechanics while having no actual direction for designing them.

>>21778632
No, Purple. With Morphing as its thing. Morphing and Ninjutsu combined. Maybe also Ghost/Flanking.
>>21778636
As OP, I applaud you. This is a perfect way to think of Cave Purple.

>>21778659
You really don't understand Timespiral do you.

>>21778673
ITT: Thinktank.

>>21778613
This is great, purple could have mechanics that would allow it to pay non mana costs to up survivability, and it would have a lot of ghostly prison effects
I like this

>>21778577
+1 for morphy mystery cave.

Make it all about making combat unpredictable. do you let that creature through? It's only a 2/2, but what if it turns into something horrible?
Hidden information is a thing not really done by any colour at the moment.
Ninjutsu, 'exile this card face down. Play it when...', morph and so on make good mechanics.

ooh, a card that says "when you play this card, make a note of a [trigger condition]. you may reveal that note when [trigger condition is met]: if you do [thing happens]." Gets some paranoia up in the game.
Thematically, purple is a combination of cthulhuesque horrors outside reality, hidden cults, madness, artistic inspiration and 'false reality'

>>21778675
>>21778636
But that's a horrible way to think of any color. We're giving purple a bunch of effects with established color affinities because now they're also sneaky. It's like giving red card drawing or life gain because it's on a card that's also a burn spell or an aggressive creature.

A morph guy with an effect that's established in some other color might be multicolor purple and the other color, but it isn't mono-purple. A color identity should not primarily be "everything but under this condition"

>>21778636
>Because "Sneaky Motherfucker" can apply to every color

Black actually has owned this since the game was first created with the Fear mechanic.

>Blue will create a plan to make sure that every spell is countered, but Purple would have put it out a turn ago. Red will throw a hbundred gobbies at it, but Purple will have put a hole in their way they never saw. Green will create a huge monster - Purple will make it meaningless. White will field an army - Purple will send it at his teammate. Black will lifesuck a creature - Purple will reveal that the creature has become a worthless Artifact doll, and has no life to suck.

You are essentially describing super Blue. Alternatively you are describing Purple as the ultimate counter for all colors. I really don't think you can design around that without having all the cards be walls of text.

>Purple is the color of information denial and fuckery with the stack/phase order

The idea of messing with stack/phase as the thing for an entire color to be built around is terrible because it is inelegant and requires a depth of knowledge of the game to even approach which goes against the philosophy of the game as a whole. Also Info denial/fuckery is covered by blue.

i skipped most of this thread so pardon me if this has already been said, but if theres going to be a sixth color it has to be unique. each color has its own style
green: ramp
blue: control
red: aggro
white: heal
black: poison
if there is to be a purple, maybe it should embody combos? think like synchros and tuners from yugioh, throw in some soulbond, maybe cards that bring other cards from the library. Weak on their own, crushing when theres a handful of them on the field interacting with each other

>>21778636
>>21778613
We have now determined that Purple is the color of Cowardice and Avoidance, that of the Sneaky Assholes and Unknown. The basic land type is CAVE. Purple has two mechanics - Morph+Ninjutsu (Cards played face down, can be swapped out with cards in hand when revealed, revealing does things) and StackAlters (Instant Subtype that changes things based on the stack or changes the stack in general, either by preventing other things from being cast until all StackAlters are resolved or by being based off the state of the Stack.)

>>21778642

>Artifacts are in no way, All of the Colours and None of them.

Yes they are. They give you big creatures but more pricey than Green. They give you draw but not as reliable as Blue. They give you mana but not as specific as Green. They give you life but not as quickly as White. They let you sacrifice to get abilities but usually not as good as Black.

>Info denial is blue

Not really. Blue is information gathering, planning, and countering.

Purple is not allowing your opponent to know that that 3/3 facedown creature will, in fact, become a 12/12 with trample once it attacks, but that's alright, since his counter didn't work because that enchantment you retroactively played last turn actually makes all his spells fall to the bottom of the stack, and while he has a spell to make you reveal your hand, it doesn't matter since you're topdecking and his enchantments only last a turn anyway thanks to your enchantment (which recasts for 3P every turn).

>>21778756
Rogues are perfect for this.
Purple rogues are best at this.

>>21778679

IIRC Time Spiral dicked around with the established rules. The problem with a new color is that it attacks the very foundation in which the game was designed around. It's existence would completely alter the existence of all other colors. You would need to redesign the game from the ground up if you wanted to make it elegant.

>>21778780
You sir should email me and we should discuss this further.

>>21778762
nah, people can't decide which of those thigns they want to do. My money is on cthulhu morph, it's the only thing that's not already in one colours area.

>>21778675
>Morphing and Ninjutsu combined

The problem with this is that Morph and Ninjutsu gain there power with the effect you receive. Do you Morphjutsu burn damage? a big creature? more cards? anything you would Morphjutsu will already have an associated color.

>>21778791
>>/tg/
>>Elegant
Pick one.

>>21778808
The fact that you're Morphjutsuing is the Purple schtick though.

>>21778613

Covered by the design philosophies of black, red, and blue.

>>21778756
We've had that already, they were called slivers, and they were awesome

>>21778780
Original Color Do Not Steal

>>21778808
>Hurpadurr color borrowing has NEVER happened, ever

>>21778603
What would passive prevention fall under? I'm thinking it might be a good idea for Cave.

Just stuff like an enchantment that causes the enemy to lose one life every time he casts an instant in your turn.
Or another enchantment that causes life loss if any enchantments are dispelled.
Or a creature that causes base damage to all the defending player's creatures if it's blocked.

Stuff that forces the opposing player to rip out his hair and think "fuck, what can I do" is what I imagine.

>>21778791
I think this thread is 'if magic had had another colour all along, how would we do it' not 'how do we add another colour'

>>21778838
Thats the original premise. We're doing both.

Ok, so how about this.
Land - Caves
Purple is the colour of mystery, wonder, the obscure.
Or like http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Colors.aspx

Purple is driven by;
Mystery
Wonder
Discovery.

Mystery is the lack of knowledge.
Wonder is the unveiling
Discovery is when mystery is complete.

>>21778719
>cthulhuesque horrors outside reality, hidden cults, madness, artistic inspiration and 'false reality'

Blue and black

>It's only a 2/2, but what if it turns into something horrible

The horrible thing that it does will determine it's color. Big creature? Green. Damage? Red. etc.

>a card that says

Depending on the end effect that will determine the color of the card

>>21778833
>stuff like an enchantment that causes the enemy to lose one life every time he casts an instant in your turn.
>Or another enchantment that causes life loss if any enchantments are dispelled.
>Or a creature that causes base damage to all the defending player's creatures if it's blocked.
See Esper control. Blood Reckoning, Safety SPhere.

>>21778833
thats a black thing. there were a bunch of enchantments like that in dark ascension iirc

Purple is futuristic; therefore, it is reasonable to assume that Purple is an amalgam of Red and Blue that formed over the years. As such, one might surmise that Purple incorporates elements of both Blue and Red (namely, card advantage and destruction).

>>21778865
...Curses?

For the love of god, if you can't think of anything to add, stop quoting shit and naming colors. It's not helpful, it's not useful, it's not getting anything done. At best, you tell us the color and why you would dismiss it and OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE.

>>21778844
>http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Colors.aspx
Emphasis on Mystery and Discovery. Not sure about wonder - Maybe some convoluted Fact or Fiction where you take the top 3 cards of your deck, look at them, put them face down in front of you, your opponent separates them into two piles and you pick one?

>>21778780
>that 3/3 facedown creature will, in fact, become a 12/12 with trample once it attacks

Make this a Green rare.

>since his counter didn't work because that enchantment you retroactively played last turn actually makes all his spells fall to the bottom of the stack

Some kind of fucked up blue card. I really don't like this "played a card last turn" since I don't see how it will be functionally different from Split Second.

>his enchantments only last a turn anyway thanks to your enchantment

A W/G rare

>>21778780
> but that's alright, since his counter didn't work because that enchantment you retroactively played last turn actually makes all his spells fall to the bottom of the stack, and while he has a spell to make you reveal your hand, it doesn't matter since you're topdecking and his enchantments only last a turn anyway thanks to your enchantment (which recasts for 3P every turn).

I think this is pretty much everything that needs to be said about Purple as an idea.

>>21778844
Someone is finally trying to design this using the game's psychology instead of shoehorning mechanics.

Lets see where this goes.

Adding a new color is a stupid fucking idea and ruins the entire fucking game. This isn't Yu-gi-oh with "flavor-of-the-week" deck types/colors. The five colors of magic represent every single thing a card can possibly do, all of them form the entire spectrum of different card possibilities. Every single card purple card posted fits neatly into one of the existing color. There doesn't exist a single coherent argument for adding a new color. None.

Every single person arguing for this simply does not understand how M:tG works and more than likely they're stupid YGO-fags.

>>21778756
I like this. Why are we discussing making purple hyper-blue instead of this

>>21778844
See, this is a much better starting point than some convoluted morphjutsu or rewinding mechanic. Color identities are attitudes and philosophies first and game rules second.

White isn't the first strike color, or the defender color, or something like that. It's the law and order and empathy color. There are effects that are primarily in white, but release a set without one of those mechanics and you can still have white cards.

>>21778816

>The fact that you're Morphjutsuing is the Purple schtick though.

What? Why? Why not make it something that the other colors do? Why should Purple be able to do everything the other colors get to do AND do it in secret?

>>21778844
If purple is driven by Mystery and Discovery, it needs to somehow incorporate those into the flavor of how it works. Rogues and Explorers are all about Mystery and Discovery and Wonder - should those be our key Creature Types?

>>21778827

Don't be a troll homie.

>>21778903
Because it doesn't do it as well as those other colours. The entire purpose is being able to shift things around and mess with your opponent's head since he's left in the literal dark about what could be behind doors number 1, 2, or 3.

>>21778838

Well then you would need to look at the Alpha cards and see what isn't covered by the 5 colors while still maintaining the simplicity of design.

Snow was a perfectly workable "sixth color" for magic. If you really want your super special purple does everything color, do it like that. Use a supertype and design morph cards are technically impossible game state fuckery cards that interact with it, don't try to shoehorn in an actual sixth basic and sixth color.

>>21778878
>>21778878
>Let me name colors and not contribute meaningfully at all while inflating my ego

Okay bro, but do you have anything to add?

>>21778931
>>Mountain Cave. Forest Cave. Swamp Cave.
I like it.

>>21778849
>>21778849
your missing the point. The element of hidden information- that you have done *something* but your opponent doesn't know what- is the important part here. Your actual gain will probably be fairly generic- boosts to power/toughness, raw damage, life gain, card draw, whatever. The difference is the playstyle, in which you have a bunch of information your oponant doesn't and he has to guess which are the important thigns and which aren't.

Blue and black both touch on the themes of 'cthulhu madness', but don't really embody it. Black (and red) have a slight affinity for insanity, but do it in a much more BUAHAHAHAHAHA way, rather than lovecraftian cosmic madness. Similarly, blue touches on deception, but in a 'you are being lied to' way, not a 'reality is different now, deal with it' way.
Read lovecraft, that's the feel I want.

>>21778931
>Purple is sneaky.
>Because it's sneaky, it has agents in every color already.
GO ON.

>>21778871

Creation cannot happen without destruction. The weak are destroyed so that the strong move on. Magic is strong. A new color must add to that strength, not detract from it. It must make the game stronger, not be a tagged on gimmick. It must reveal something about the game that the 5 colors (and colorless) has yet to truly tap in to.

>>21778886
I want purple to be where every creature affects every other creature, so its weak early but by turn five you have some unholy amalgamation that attacks as a 10/10 flyer trample with lifelink. maybe you kill one of the creatures thats making this, but now its still a 7/7 flying trampler

everyone else wants blue: mystery edition

>>21778963
Oh god, purple has been around from the beggining and has been biding it's time all these years.

>>21778969
See: Banding.
Banding was bad.
And you should feel bad.

>>21778936

I am adding. I am adding that these ideas are flawed and should not be designed around if a new color is to be created.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, purple as a color needs to monopolize on phase/step order and the stack in order to be a unique and relevant color. Purple is the color of time and space. Blue does this to a certain extent but it could very easilly be stripped out of blue and given a life of its own.

>>21778931
>>21778945
>>21778963
The only thing worse than trying to make a new color for magic is making a Snow II. Snow was a shoddy and somewhat empty mechanic and there is certainly no point in making something that works like it while not being it.

>>21778975
that was just an example, i want splinters
but i want them to have their own color
splinters were awesome

>>21778969
that's just slivers

>>21778985
What psychologies are time and space? Explain without using those belonging to monoBlue.

>>21778906
Enchantment related stuff has always been kinda lumped onto white and it never really fits in my head, yes helping your guys out and what not.

But no colour is spesifically about enchantments. Echantment is a good thing for wonder.
>>21778906
Now I like rogues and explorers for purple (partly because rogues get brutally split amoung red, black and blue)
As for an iconic type, like red dragons or Blue's Sphinx.
Considering that bother of those dropped Djinn, I'd say.
Djinn for purple, wonder and mystery is their game after all.

For the record, I kinda like the idea of morphlike stuff, but we should really hit the flavour and identity of purple more, then mechanics would follow.

So, exploration and stuff is kinda the joyous "good" side of purple.
How about the horror and fear of the unknown as the bad? Madness and such? Discarding knowlegde for oblivion and all that?

>>21778985
Ok guys. We need to fucking chose one - Lovecraftian Purple, Rogue/Mystery Purple (on its own), Rogue/Mystery Purple (as snow 2.0) or Time Fuck Purple?
I'm a fan of it being a mix of Lovecraft and Rogue Mystery - You get Mystery, Wonder, and Discovery all in one, while getting something that can not only mess with the stack but also provide new mechanics.