>>22578223
>a new town just pops out of nowhere to replace the old place
I think this would happen. I do wonder what happens if gatetowns collide.
>Can he kick the place around all the way to the gates of Mechanus?
He's LN and Bedlam is CN/E, so it's more likely that the town goes to Acheron.

If the alignment changes enough, the place will shift.
Not only towns, but entire layers can shift - this happened in Arcadia, when its third layer became so lawful that it shifted into Mechanus.
It can happen - but it would take ages and changes in people's opinions, ideas, minds and beliefs.
Your case - Bedlam with Dredd? Not gonna happen. Bedlam after a thousand years of Dredd, where everyone eventually turns into Dredd? Maybe.

>>22578223
Yes, if you change the alignment of a place in the outlands you can change its location.

So hypothetically if you were able to change the alignment and behavior of people in a place you could turn a town into a moving city. Maybe if you got it fast enough, which would be impossible, you could turn a city into a giant ram and have it ram into other cities.

>>22578323
>Maybe if you got it fast enough, which would be impossible, you could turn a city into a giant ram and have it ram into other cities.


This is awesome.

Okay, here's the plan. We all join the Mercykillers (Harmonium does fine too), go into Bedlam or Plague-Mort, and apply some law into that shit until we can use the place to charge right into Automata, Ribcage, or perhaps even Fortitude. Then the outer planes will be ours!

This is going to work so great!

>>22578342
Except, gods, planars and murderhobos are going to stop you. Remember: you're not in Sigil anymore, so that anti-god shield is gone.

>>22578342
The problem isn't changing it, though that's hard. The problem is changing it fast enough that it builds up enough speed to do some serious damage.

Maybe if we dropped a couple thousand Mercykillers in there who waited for the right moment and suddenly applied LAW to it it'd get fast enough.

The more practical idea would be to make a small town of malleable people with some extremely skilled bards/orators and so on. You pick a destination, start pumping out the propaganda and speed along the Outlands, steering might be tough though.

>>22578384

I doubt that would work. You can't change the belief from without, it must be done from within. Maybe if you had a town full of perfectly disciplined, obedient monks - and even then it would probably 1) not leave lawful sphere or 2) fall apart upon reaching chaos region.

>>22578425
Internal change doesn't happen in a vacuum, your surroundings are an essential part of modifying and changing your beliefs.

Without anything to challenge or test your beliefs they rarely change on their own.

>>22578453

Yes, but you can't force anyone to change their beliefs overnight. Their cooperation is necessary, unless you possess some sort of mind control technique.

>>22578473
So we mind control everybody into that.
While we're at it, make them believe we're immortal space gods with lots of bitches.

>>22578473
That could work. I was suggesting extremely malleable people with little resistance to argument and so on. But throwing magic/mind control in the mix wouldn't hurt in the least.

>>22578492
So we'll get a bunch of mind flayers to turn everyone into Mercykillers at the exact same time?

>>22578568
We replace everyone with Mercykiller mind flayers.

>>22578624
Eating brains for THE LAW!

>>22578824
And when it crashes wherever it was supposed to crash, you have a few thousand hungry mind flayers on your hands.

Really, though, where should we crash this city?

A bit of law is a good plan at first, because otherwise we might end up straight into Pandemonium by accident, but once we're out of the danger zone, we could go basically anywhere we like.

Mechanus is boring. I say we crash this shit into Glorium and have a hugeass brawl.

>>22578473
What if we find a race of incredibly short lived people, who did grow up overnight, and then messed with each generation accordingly?

>>22579226
What if we don't crash the city, and instead use the momentum to make the great wheel spin in the opposite direction?

>>22579226
Yes.
Glorium.
Our Mind flayer barbarians would be unstoppable.

>Weaponizing alignments through hi-speed collisions

>ITT: Applied Ork technology

>>22578223
>playing billiards with interplanar cities

Reasons I'm glad I woke up this morning

>>22579226
>where should we crash this city?

Find two cities that the Spire intersects between.

>>22579226
>>22579369
>Use alignment shifting cities to shoot every last city in Outlands into Sigil at once.
>"NOW is the LoP dead, DM?"
>DM says yes, but only because all the PCs are Orcs/Half Orcs.

>>22578223
>What I'm wondering, though, is do you think the process could work the other way around?
Canonically, yes. Don't have time to look it up now, but I know there's a PS book that describes exactly what you're talking about.

Look at it this way: there used to be another layer of Arcadia. Now it's part of Mechanus.

Wait.
> Planes run and change on belief.
> Ork technology runs and changes on belief.
> Orks love war - galaxy is at constant war.
> Ork belief changed the galaxy.
Holy shit, everybody in Planescape is an Ork.

>>22579412
>Not having the LoP staring at the untold amount of chaos and destruction caused by the event and immediately commit suicide

>>22579464
>>22579412
That is beautiful. If the LoP can't be killed, then you break her spirit so bad she's commits suicide. Or you nuke her by throwing cities at her.

So its a question of how brutal or kunnin you want to be.

>>22579475
And so, we finally have an answer on how to kill the Lady of Pain.

>>22579520
>And so, we finally have an answer on how to kill the Lady of Pain.

"By ignoring the game rules and setting fluff".

This is actually the answer /tg/ arrives at in every thread.

>>22579553
Well, considering that they have just wreked Sigil by smashing multiple cities on it and that the LoP is the personification of Sigil...

>>22579753
Yeah this is quite possibly the only legit way to do it, if only because someone literally tore apart the multiverce in order to destroy the city from outside.

>>22579780
>>22579753
>>22579520
>>22579475
>>22579464

If i ever decide and manage to pull this off i'll be also sure to say ROW! ROW! FIGHT THE POWER at some point

>>22579916
You need to do this.

So, couldn't we just make Sigil all good or lawful or evil or whatever, so that it falls down from that spire and ends up somewhere else?

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>>22583552
Sigil isn't technically standing on the Spire.

>>22579475
The Lady of Pain can be killed by a nuke.

There are rules for a nuke in d20 and it states that a nuke "destroys everything and everyone in its radius" so the Lady of Pain would be killed by it, too.

>>22583784
>>22583552
Lady of Pain rules there, ARGUABLE she is brutal Neutral so Sigil will stay put unless she is over thrown. THUS this side of the discussion is not for this thread. Moving on...

Self Sage.

>>22583552
>>22583784

So the Spire is literally infinitely tall. Making Sigil 'fall' down the spire wouldn't have very much affect at all, since it's already got magic keeping everything from falling out as-is.

Wait, if Sigil is up on the Spire, how are we going to launch a city at it?
I believe that alignment shift moving only works only on in a two dimensional coordinate system (Good / Evil and Law / Chaos as axis), not in a three dimensional one.

>>22584899
We just smash the city against the spire, and it'll probably end up up there anyway because planes are weird.

>>22579780
>Yeah this is quite possibly the only legit way to do it
Except it's not at all "legit", for a couple of reasons. The Outlands aren't a physical place; distances are not calculable, even between nearby gate-towns. They don't actually "move", they just become closer or farther from the portals leading to their respective planes.

>>22584189
You can still jump out ("off") of Sigil.

You just fall forever.

>>22584899
There is a third, secret alignment:
That Guy - This Guy

alternatively: cool - lame

>>22585920
Which one is Sigil, then?

>>22587441
Isn't it obvious?
>LoP controls Sigil
>That Guy makes threads about killing her
>Therefore, Sigil is This Guy aligned

>>22584899
Extravert/Introvert should be the third Axis, in my opinion.

if you change the mindset of an entire city , that city may slip to the next plane if it is not somehow anchored.
iirc on some manual, this exact thing happened on some city in arcadia, that slipped into mechanus or vice versa.

so, /tg/ just discovered a way to use cities as nuclear warheads. you guys never cease to amaze me

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>>22588730
Well there is no payload so to speak. It's more one mass colliding into another mass.

So that only begs the questions. How do we make each city go volatile?

>>22588984
What we need is a whole lot of elemental chaos packed into the same place, a little cube or such, stored and waiting. Once the city collides with another, we release the chaos and allow it to spread all over both our city and the new one, thus dragging them both right back into Limbo or Pandemonium. Like a city-shaped shark diving up through the surface of the Outlands, grabbing a poor innocent town in between its jaws, and sinking back in with something to eat.

Powerful mind control could work too.

>>22588984
The kinetic energy would be more than enough to create a rather sizable explosion.

>>22589082
More than likely the town would just burn into nothingness on the way there.

>>22589636
>>22589082
I thought that was part of the issue. Physicals are kind of a strict Prime (or severally lawful) plane element. In out lands it doesn't really have to care.

>>22584899
Ramp it.