>>23205363

Lets have a coastal city. A port is important.

>>23205418
This, located on the northern end of a large island in an sub-arctic climate.

>>23205418
>>23205467

Sounds good, if chilly. So the sea is on the north. What is the terrain around the city like? Mostly flat, perhaps, with coniferous forests?

Or hilly and rugged with mountain streams?

> Roll d20 for the quality of the harbour.

Rolled 17

>>23205543

>>23205666

> Harbour of excellentness!

If the city is that far north, and has such a good port, it probably would be reliant on grain imports from places which are nicer.

If that is the case, then why was the city built here? Interesting reasons much welcomed.

Rolled 91

>>23205706
normal fleeing home land, or adventure

maybe got stuck never left

i blame the gods either was

>>23205706

Because the Harbour was where Thor landed on his crusade against the Ice Giants, and therefore as the first land to be cleared, it was the logical set-up for a human encampment, as a staging area in the war.

>>23205759

So they'd be refugees from some turmoil in the south, and therefore would be a different ethnic and linguistic group from all the tribes around them? That sounds fantastic.

Right. We still haven't figured out the surrounding terrain on their island. Are there any other city-states? Do they live in a crowded environment of alien cultures, or are they an isolated city-state among wandering tribes?

Okay, im in on this. You had me at experimental.

>>23205706
How about this for unusual. It exists between a cross roads of marsh/swamp trading roads. Large amounts of resources cross over the marshes on barges and canal boats. Contrary to what you might think, the presence of water makes the transport easier than roads as there is less friction.
Some consortiums have even begun to dig canals connecting certain marshes.

>>23205814

Probably part of the founding legend, that. Does the city claim descent from the gods who cleared that land? (Let's not clone Scandinavia.)

>>23205814
>>23205759

Go away and play DnD. Your ideas are polluted.

>>23205830

That sounds like Venice, which is awesome.

Maybe marsh surrounded by hills? Shit farmland, dependent on imports, but terrain good for defense.

>>23205830
Who would transport goods over marshland and how hard were they dropped on the head as a child?

>>23205845

No. Followers in the wake of his landing, a God would not condescend to mate with a human.

>>23205816
Isolated City State among wandering tribes, who themselves are suspicious of the strange men who begun to live there, somehow surviving without needing to move and follow the sources of food and not fearing the sea.
As for terrain, I'd say lightly mountainous pine forest with medium-large swathes of barren lands towards the eastern side of the island.

>>23205910
Im gonna have to call jew on that one.

City by the sea with mountains, flats and wondering tribes sounds a little too much like how israel views itself and the rest of the arab states.

Also, its like 30% less inventive than marshes.

>>23205910
>>23205881
>>23205894

To be sure, historically, a marshland with some canals could make for a good city. Like Venice, or St. Petersburg. But there would have to be canals.

A tropical marshland would be rubbish for city building, but if this is sub arctic it's probably too cold for mosquitoes. Except in the summer. Dear goodness.

So, general points with some personal input:

> Excellent harbour on the north/northwest of the city
> Low mountain chain on the western area, with forests; rugged, steep coasts
> Rocky, hard grassland towards the eastern coast, leading down to marshy coastline
> Farming potential: shit.

... Bloody hell, this place sounds harsh. What would their economy be based on, though? If they didn't farm, they'd have to buy all their food. And they better have something damn valuable to trade.

>>23205971

Let's not with the epithets.

The area around the city could be marsh, without affecting the terrain of the rest of the island (it is a large island, after all).

Come think of it, the marsh would freeze solid in winter, and then run deep with spring melt, turning everything into mud WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE GUYS DOING HERE

>>23205990
Fish, ore, some timber, depending on the period perhaps oil or some other form of energy.

>>23205990
This city is horrible. Why do you ruin everything /tg/?

>>23206050

> complaining, complaining

doesn't have to be that way, why not give some ideas?

Valuable products... precious metals, perhaps, whales, dried fish, amber, pelts of animals...

Could be a big trading centre for those nomads.

>>23205881
Yes... i can see that.

How about a terrain similar to new England, but with marshes on most of the inward land.

>>23206028
No no, i think it defeats too much of the purpose to have one of everything.

We should be unconventional and start with broad strokes covering entire areas. Then we get more focussed in on the city and more and more... not everything about this city can be ideal, i was expecting someone to say mountain or island because we know they are the most easily defended, but thats getting far too conventional. Weve got the island, lets leave it at that.

... nah, i think ill epithet when i see fit thank you.

>>23206050

Not sure how it's horrible... it sure isn't a Greek-style holiday resort town, but wouldn't that be rather boring?

So their economy basically depends on the sea, the rich veins in the mountains, the treasures of the forest, and perhaps other strange goods of the surrounding tribes.

Does that imply this city, despite its weird location, is rather cosmopolitan?

>>23206154
>Does that imply this city, despite its weird location, is rather cosmopolitan?
Either that, a large merchant district for it's size, or the traders that typically deal through it are themselves native, and seeking out/delivering goods rather than acting as a hub for traders from various locations.
The first two are the most likely.

>>23206128

Do you mean one of everything as in one of every sort of terrain? Hmmm.

I think the forested mountain chain and rocky, half-frozen grasslands are pretty good. Fits the climate and the geology.

What I'm not so sure about, to be honest, is the marshland... those do exist in northern climes, but mostly at the mouths of pretty awesome rivers...

>>23206028
I was going to say they can use canal boats which have ice skates underneath. But thats a little too much like St.Petersberg isnt it... Obviously they are pulled by horses in the winter.

It should be pretty obvious to all involved that our people live off the sea. They eat well off of fish and use kelp and seaweed for vegetables and to make... bread?

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>>23206211
How about over the larger lakes and more barren, flat locations they use a sort of larger land sailer outfitted for icy conditions?

>>23206154
>Does that imply this city, despite its weird location, is rather cosmopolitan?

Yes.

>>23206124
>amber

Maybe we produce allot of amber from the swamps? Is this even possible?

I have an idea why not make the island near the mainland, and every winter the freezing ice allows land trade? So the tribesmen trade in winter and the ships move in summer.

>>23206154
A city like that would live off:
-trade
-exploitation of timber, seafood, mineral ores, furs
-slaves and war bounty

There is a trading area beside the merchant wharfs. There are some foreign traders and probably a few minorities that would be good in a specific profession (medics, goldsmiths) as well as natives. Immigration would be mostly from the inland.

>>23206269
>Maybe we produce allot of amber from the swamps? Is this even possible?
Possibly also petrified wood.
>>23206270
I can dig it.

>>23206209
The geology has to be different, otherwise we are just copying Scandinavian / Canada.

>>23206236
Seabread!

Nah, they clearly have to import their staple food, which makes a siege impossible to survive if their harbor is blocked. There should be a strong fleet and maybe the citizens have to either enlist as a marinier or help pay for the ship upkeep.

>>23206253

Or huge sleighs with sails! Sounds pretty cool.

>>23206269

Amber is more frequently found in forested areas, iirc. Swampland and marshland could contain massive amounts of peat. Like in Estonia.

So should the island be near the mainland, or truly isolated? I'm inclined towards being near the mainland, personally, but the vote is yours.

>>23206269
You can't produce amber. It takes ages to form.

>>23206236
Seafood but also local fruits in the forests, various wildlife, perhaps also elk herds, additionally root vegetables that do well in the cold. For the most part however reliant on grain imports.
>>23206323
Isolated IMO, as a centre of control and for good defense.

>>23206329
Its just sap... there are allot of trees after all.

>>23206368
It's petrified sap.
It takes two ingredients.
1: One part sap.
2: A thousand parts time.

>>23206368

Sap =/= Amber, Amber's fossilized tree resin (not sap.)

>>23206383
>>23206392

Actually now that we mentioned sap... A lot of the world's most valuable incenses trace their roots back to being from the sap of trees, frankincense and myrrh for example.

>>23206368

Oh, you meant produce as in, turn fresh pine resin in amber. Sorry, that does take several hundred thousand years normally.

I just had a thought, the people of this city are probably tough as fecking nails. Sail-sledding, seafaring, fishing, sealing, whaling, kelp gathering nails.

Would not be surprised if they were pirates as well, come think of it. It sure sounds like they do not reap.

>>23206309
>seabread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laver_%28seaweed%29

Theyd be selling allot of Laver combined with other breads.

I think its safe to say our people dont have a very sweet tooth as there isnt much you could produce deserts with.

>>23206416

For this reason, why not make the City-State situated in an Iberian/Levantine region, primarily dealing with the trade of incense, spices and exotic furs?

It could be like an independent Constantinople.

>>23206368
Resin, but in any case it's fossilized resin. We can make "synthetic" amber in modern times but I don't know if pre-industrial people could.

And anyway, it's valuable because it's pretty but also because it's rare. If someone started mass producing amber it would quickly lose its value if it has no practical use.

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>>23206417
General maritime power?
Raiding both at seas and in freshwater as well as a lot of trade.

>>23206417
It's fairly unlikely that peoples reliant on trade would be pirates, but they could however produce their own goods for personal usage while raiding merchant ships for other required goods such as foodstuffs, hemp for ropes, spices, cloth, ect.
It removes the need and much of the possibility for it to be a trade hub.

>>23206358
No your just copying canada. Stop it.

NO. Not defense. Frankly ive already covered this with my idea. Its located near a swamp trade rout.

If it is NOT located near a swamp trader rout and is instead AN ISOLATED defended point, then there is no point in talking about trade.

Furthermore, some of the best defended places inthe world are completely cut off from civilization. And thats what your going for.

>>23206431

Cloudberry - gold of the north! Also lingonberry jam! Nutritious and delicious!

(I'm Ikea's bitch.)

Laver would be lovely though. And kelp.

>>23206441

You know, maybe that's where their original civilisation came from. Old habits die hard, even when you're stuck on a rocky island in freezeland.

(tbh, I like the idea of a subarctic city-state. That doesn't get done a lot, I don't think...)

The political situation around the city doesn't sound particularly exciting though. Let's see if we can't spice it up.

>>23206482
>>23206469
>>23206358

>It'll be remote so it's well defended, but they also are a major trading power! Oh, and they're pirates!

Are you seriously reading what you type? Why would a shitty little island in the middle of nowhere, whose inhabitants have a well-known tradition of raiding merchants, be an attractive destination for merchants?

They're either a crappy little pirate power or they're a wealthy trading port, they can't be both. Were the Venetians known for their piracy? The Novgorodians?

>>23206508
Political situation?
How about:
-Nomad raiding tribes?
-Incessant pirate raids?
-Expansionist Kingdom that has designs on the city state itself?

>>23206508
>(tbh, I like the idea of a subarctic city-state. That doesn't get done a lot, I don't think...)

So why not make it subarctic?

>>23206551
S-s-sorry. I was looking at Tudor England. Will retract all statements said before sir, won' happen again sir.

>>23206551
Too be fair, I was saying that in my post.
I say we go the trader route.

Rolled 22

>>23206551
Navy devolped out of fomer pirate power, threatens rival traders?

I am imaging hard-nosed assholes, who are generally good people and only real issues come from real issues like straving because winter and greed because trade determines survival

>>23206551

To be sure, the Vikings were as well known for trade as they were for ferocious piracy. It must've been a fun game watching the horizon to see if the Vikings were coming in knarrs (hurrah!) or longships (fuck!).

Then again, they weren't quite well known for building large trade hubs, being more like couriers around the seas. So you do have a point.

Currently it would seem that trading hub sounds like a better foundation for a city of reasonable size, rather than a wretched hive of scum, so let's inclined more towards that (though not absolutely, of course).

>>23206383
Well then its rare and valuable and we have allot of it because we have allot of trees.

1000 trees / 1 hour = 1 amber per hour.

If the minimum wage is roughly 0.166 gold coin per hour. Then its worth 0.166 gold... um... its certainly not nothing.

>>23206636
>1000 trees / 1 hour = 1 amber per hour.
wat

>>23206562

Any trading power worth it's salt will have long-since placated, or exterminated, anything that might be bad for business. Sure pirates or raiding tribes were a nuisance, but they were hardly an issue (look at Carthage for example; it was practically a city-state and it's policy was using the raiding tribes as mercenaries.)

Same with the expansionist kingdoms. Venice for example wasn't conquered by the Holy Roman Empire because Venice had a lot of connections, was fairly defensible, and an attack on the City would be a massive disruption in trade.

That being said, a lot of those would be nullified if this city-state is in 200 BC or so rather then 1400. Same if we're playing the formation of the city-state rather than the finished product.

>>23206636
>1000 trees / 1 hour = 1 amber per hour.
Sir are you drunk?

If the city is on an island near a continent, their presence might have spurred other cities on. A patchwork of other towns is forming on the mainland. The tribes raid and trade with them, maybe kingdoms and empires from warm areas eye their wealth.

>>23206664
Oh, then we need a expansionist military power on the rise - the Ottomans and Romans - with seemingly endless supply of manpower. That's what the Carthaginians and Venetians faced, no? Plus various adventurers (e.g. Pyrrhus and various Sicilians) who try to gain concessions from the city-state. Perhaps a military order bent on converting/gaining these lands (Teutonic Order vs. Danzig/Hansa).

>>23206664

Today's mercenaries are tomorrow's deadly enemies, as Carthage found out. But yeah, need better idea of the time period.

I'm more for the Greek city state era.

>>23206562
Anon stahp. Listen to this guy.
>>23206551

Given Swamps, perhaps gunpowder production?

Okay. So!

Economy:
> Large trading port
> Large fishing/whaling/sealing economy
> Exports: amber, silver, pelts, blubber, peat
> Other activities: possibly piracy

Threats:
> Nearby, rising city-states
> Rising, expansionist and large states from the south (Come think of it, where is the mainland in relation to the island? Just general directions should do).
> Local, unruly tribes of nomads

Everyone reckons this is sensible?

>>23206761
No piracy. And they still need some way to get staple foods. Fish are cool and all but you can't live on fish only.

>>23206761
> Other activities: possibly piracy
I would say cut the piracy completely from their own activities.

>Come think of it, where is the mainland in relation to the island?
I'm not sure on what would be a good distance to place them, but perhaps a larger landmass to the west-south-west, and a smaller but still sizable one to the south-east?

>>23206674
>>23206658

Im am still right. Its more a harvesting problem.

>but but it takes exactly 1000 years before the sap turns into amber
And i suppose it wouldnt work in 999 years.
>exactly, my maths brain cannot handle the idea that it would be 99.9% amber in 999 years.

Am i right or am i wrong.

>>23206551

This was partly why I felt it might make more sense if the island was close to mainland. Or other islands, bearing other city states.

A crowded neighbourhood in which these guys stand out as being particularly rich and of a different culture.

Also, so Greek era good for us? Swords, bows, ship battles which are basically land battles with more vomiting, etc.

>>23206761

I don't think it should be on an island, for two big reasons:

1. How many powerful city-states can you name off the top of your head that was on an island too far off the mainland to build a bridge?

2. Why would anyone use this city-state in the first place? Powerful city-states are powerful because they're middlemen; the in-between for ship-based and land-based transportation. An island off the coast of nowhere would just be a port, not a trading destination.

>>23206810
I have no idea what you're even trying to calculate.

I do know that people don't plant things to harvest them a thousand years later and that amber is, for all intensive purposes, a finite resource.

>>23206810
This isn't a game where it uses random chances, and the more sources you have the more dice rolls you get on it being produced.
It takes long periods of time per each unit produced.

>>23206761
I agree, no piracy involved so far.

Also, as for civil construction. Cant you make bricks out of the kind of stuff found in swamp?

>>23206809

this. and yeah they probably are more anti-piracy.

>>23206810

dude you don't farm amber. amber is fossil resin from hundreds of thousands of years ago. you gather it, or maybe dig it out, but you can't make it. what are you on about?

>>23206857
Yes, but, obviously. If it takes so long and you harvest it from many sources you will be able to build up a large supply.

But in any case it doesnt really work out economically by amount.

>>23206891
>Yes, but, obviously. If it takes so long and you harvest it from many sources you will be able to build up a large supply.
Yes, you could *technically* economically harvest amber in finite amounts. But it takes so long to be formed any that comes into their hands would be much older than the city itself, and it's value is fairly subjective.

>>23206839
We'll use a weapon i invented when i first came on to /tg/

It is a sort of jointed wooden sling that casts large stone shuriken.

>>23206842

I can think of Tyre and Rhodes. But yeah, even if not close enough for a bridge, still not very far.

It could be they are the exchange between the 'civilised' peoples who recognise them as their own, and the 'barbaric' peoples on the other continent that they trade with.

>>23206867

Not very sure about brick... I'd say the easier construction materials are probably wood from the forest, and all the stone you have in the mountains. Hell of an uncomfortable combination in a cold place, though.

>>23206809
>>23206842

This sounds good - they might be closer to the on on their southeast, where the barbarians live. And they maintain economic contact across the sea with other island city-states, and the city states on the mainland... and probably the larger kingdoms which forced them to uproot in the first place.

So they are the eastern fringe of their civilisation, a frontier marketplace, a bulwark against the gobbledygook-speaking easterners. Wahey!

>>23206937

sounds awesome. used in naval fighting?

>>23206982

Okay. So, now, what to build? Culture, perhaps, or head straight into political structure?

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>>23206982
Let's maybe look why they decided to settle there in the first place?
What would drive men to do that?

>>23207050
Political structure. I still say they need a 'standing navy' if they're going to be a maritime power without access to grain except through the sea. Also they need it to escort ships since trade is so important.

>>23207069

You mean you wouldn't live in a place with scenery like that?

... But yeah, must be quite a compelling reason. Refugees from war and conquest? The last scions of a proud city?

Or maybe explorers who settled...?

>>23207097

And that inclines towards democracy, apparently. Let's do it, let's be a democratic city-state.

> captcha: communi popointi
> so we are a popoint community

>>23206982
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick

Normally, brick contains the following ingredients:

Silica (sand) – 50% to 60% by weight
Alumina (clay) – 20% to 30% by weight
Lime – 2 to 5% by weight
Iron oxide – ≤ 7% by weight
Magnesia – less than 1% by weight

Clay = Marsh
Silica = Beach
Lime = Import / seashells

>>23207136
In the old Athenian style though?

>>23207174

Lets make our own sort of constitution! Democratic, but with its own quirks.

>>23207013
The civilisation it went with originally were more like mauri marines.

>>23207174
That could work, and Athens did rise to be a maritime empire at some point int heir history.

>>23207108
>... But yeah, must be quite a compelling reason.

How about. "Thats just where they live"

Sounds pretty compelling for the ancient world.

>>23207237
Well, assuming that they once lived in warmer climes there has to be a compelling reason for them to move to cold bogs.
Sure, a normal trading post could work, as well as exile.

>>23207237

most city states do have stories of how they got there though. at least some stories would be nice.

besides they don't live there because they're foreigners.

So i think the people should live in the city of bricks...

Atleast it will keep the cold out.

>>23207237
>>23207256

Hmm, well, they could be:

- Trading post that made it big
- Colony founded by one of the mother cities farther west
- Colony founded by refugees, without a mother city
- Explorers who found a good place and settled
- Or maybe they are actually half-breeds who just don't admit all the intermarriage from previous eras...

>>23207226
>>23207215
>>23207174

Democracy sounds like a consensus? Well, it doesn't need to follow the Athenian example too closely - many Greek city states had their own constitutions and systems.

>>23207268
Perhaps brick homes are considered a luxury, the primary dwelling being made of leftover stone from the silver mining or timber and slathered mud to block the wind from slipping between cracks.

>>23207297
>Democracy sounds like a consensus
It's supposed to be, but with district systems sometimes you can win the most vot-

Oh. I see what you mean. Yeah, sounds good.

>>23207303
>>23207268

Agree with brick as luxury material. The others maybe live in timber and peat houses.

I'd say they live underground since that's warm, but if they live in a marsh that's suicidal.

>>23207303
I think it would be like Novgorod - richer houses and important structures being built of brick and stone while the poorer people live in wood built houses.

>>23207331

Shhh. They haven't yet figured you can't design a voting system that satisfies all those criteria.

>>23207256
No there doesnt. Scandinavians moved from warmer climates to where they are today.

Which is to say; sometimes expanding territory seems to be good enough...

>>23207356

So explorers sounds likely.

Also, did they really? where were they from?

>>23207332
>I'd say they live underground since that's warm
That could actually make mining one of the preferred jobs, though it would have to be at a mining camp off site of course.
>>23207356
The problem is that ancient peoples followed opportunity, primarily for food, in where they went and settled.
There isn't much apparent opportunity here, and since we're not part of a larger empire (currently), there must be something.
Though I agree, it's not necessary. Just would be nice to have some sort of story, however vague or obscured.

>>23207297
Im not happy with democracy. Boooring. Dooone... except we all live in a quazi demo-dictatorship today that embodies none of the ideals of justice and fairness.

But im too tired... ill have to go to bed time.

But how about a king with many many noble children.
This is a problem japan had, so they created the samurai. I belive that Rome also had several kings before their first ceaser.

It would be nice if the large noble class and spoiler/upper middle class/spoiler nobles were something other than military for a change... sometimes it feels like all humans can do is kill things...

Ofcource it probably is some unwritten law of the universe that military considerations have to come primary... but it would be nice to see a trading or artisan noble group... somehow.

>>23207303
Sir, enough with your stone! We live next to a marsh with clay. We shall use it, as it is quicker to make than cut stone.

They will make bricks. But as it has occured to me that old London was largely made of wood before it burnt down, it seems that humans favour to not fix what is not broke.

We should have a universal standard of brick size/shape set...

Hmm. So:

This city was founded (tentatively) by explorers and refugees, the debris of their peoples in the warmer, gentler west and south. Tough and resilient, they gathered around the marshlands on this island, close to the mainland yet defensible, and built for themselves a home.

A city where the nice buildings are wood, bricks and stone in the old style of their forefathers. The poorer classes, however, live in wood-framed buildings covered with rough stone and peat and even furs, almost like the barbarians themselves.

It is the easternmost and northernmost city among its people, a trading hub with a formidable navy. Through them flow the precious goods of the barbarians, amber, timber, silver and gold headed west. And the base of their sustenance lies in the west, where ships of grain sail across stormy seas to provision the traders.

To guard this trade on which their lives and feed depend, they maintain a formidable navy, and the peoples of the world know their ships. In the past, when the city was a lair of cutthroats, they knew with terror. Even these days, when the navy has become organised and brought to heel, people still speak in hushed tones.

The men of the waves. The sons of the sea. Half-breeds, half-barbarians.

Sounds good? What is the name of this city? I'd favour names with a good etymology.

(Leaving the political system for after this.)

Come think of it, they probably also run a massive slave trade if they have silver mines in a subarctic climate. I bet people drop like flies in those mines.

>>23207439
Samurai weren't spontaneously created because you had a bunch of bored nobles kicking around. Samurai came into being over many centuries as a dedicated warrior class, and wealth and land naturally came to them as it tends to come to warrior classes.

Ancient China tended to revere scholars just as much if not more than warriors, so there ya go. Yay China.

>>23207396
>Also, did they really? where were they from?
Well conventional wisdom is that we all started in africa.

But frankly. Im beginning to doubt this idea and its science which i, and all its proponents and factoid repeaters have yet to see the evidence.
It sounds a little too much along the lines of the propaganda people spout about:
"Isnt africa so nice, the culture so beautiful TM"
and
"Im going home to africa. (c)"

Sounds too much like the sort of thinly veiled anti whiteism said by our more turbulent and restless fellow citizens.

>>23207588

That was 120,000 years ago. I meant where did the Scandinavians migrate from into Scandinavia, around when it matters (Proto-Norse was attested around the 200s AD, so roughly before that).

Not about to dignify the rest of your post with a reply.

if we're making democracy, are we going to have like an assembly thing?

>>23207584
>and wealth and land naturally came to them as it tends to come to warrior classes.

Not sure about that last bit.

>>23207584
>Ancient China tended to revere scholars
And so did just about everyone else.
Europe specifically taking its example from the warrior scholars Devinci, Archimedes and Medici as philosopher kings.

>>23207679
Perhaps they generally are motioned to assemble by word of mouth at a larger brick structure located near the trade district. Anyone is open to speak, but you are also free to have old, leftover fish thrown at your head if your opinion is found unpopular enough.

All right. Let's talk about the political culture.

What would the classes in this city be like, what are the lines?

My initial guess is that the mercantile community is going to be very, very important. Merchant families who run the trade that keeps everyone fed and clothed will have a lot of say.

But at the same time these people's business is only possible, with the rough seas and pirates and trading rivals, with the muscle power of the rowers, sailors, bodyguards, soldiers, etc.

So this could be a fundamental fault line.

Other ideas? This city certainly sounds varied enough to have a great lot of factions. A military nobility has been raised, and sounds like it could happen (the owners and leaders of the escort ships or something).

>>23207655
Well who says im waiting for your dignifications sir.

Credibility is a moving goalposts game that im not willing to play with you.

You can either accept my evidence or search it yourself.

But you cannot claim that racism is hypocrisy and convince me that all anti-racism isnt a weapon directed at the white race to let others get away with murder. Because it is.

>>23207515
Well, if it's got a well developed port, it must be for a reason. If it's trade, then they have to have a major export. Whale oil would be an important resource that far up north, so what about whale hunting as a major source of income?

>>23207876
I think whale hunting was mentioned previously, but it's importance wasn't previously stated.
Likely it would be very important, just within the city.
They could also use seals to help supplement amounts and as part of their food sources, though whales themselves would be much more profitable.

>>23207730
Yes, but what was particular about ancient China was that the scholars were rewarded with land and wealth and titles by the state, merely for the virtue of being smart guys. And that was unique to China.

>>23207962
>>23207876

Whale hunting is an important part of their economy, as is fishing and seal-hunting. Though the blubber is a far better trade good, while the fish is just for subsistence.

Any ideas on the political culture? Or do we just go on to design the system?

>>23208039
oligarchy/democracy

people have a say, the merchants lords have a lot of power due to wealth helping determine weather you eat or not, but the desperate circumstances make the people quick to unite and deal with issues, like a merchant king dropping pay. Healthy respect between the two, but still a little hate (but more like the rival football team hate).

unanimous consent would be ridiculous for such a large and colorful community, representatives probably would work the best (merchant kings?)

Scholars are probably treated like artist, while inventors are revered (every percent of efficiency helps both the haves and the haves-nots)

>>23208150
>Scholars are probably treated like artist, while inventors are revered (every percent of efficiency helps both the haves and the haves-nots)

Why would they have a scholar/inventor reverence?

>>23208530
because rich people like nice things hence the scholor thing (having them just because they like nice things) , inventors because some guy figures out how to kill a whale now they have food, some guy made a better boat you are lessl likely to die at see. I figure life is hard and any thing that helps is well helpful

>>23208918

Inventors back in the day *never* worked like that.

It was always one of three things (but most often two or three:)

1. Wealth

2. Prestige

3. Someone else's wealth or prestige

The history of scientific invention was not some RTS where you pump money or people into the Tech Tree and science popped out, and the only time it even approaches such a comparison is the 20th century.

Necessity may be the mother of all invention, but the mother wouldn't get knocked up if Papa Bigbucks didn't wave his gold plated dick around.

>>23209050
true, i feel like this is basically al most steam punk kind of place, just because of the sheer amount of capitalism going on and the importance tech would have here (cold, inhospitable land, that is based on profit)