This is one of the few things I do like about Fantasy Flight's 40k system.

You roll percentile dice to hit, and then if you do hit, the dice are inverted and compared to a chart to figure out where on the body the damage is applied to.

For a mech game, that can be particularly useful as ruining parts of a mech could have benefits or downsides.

>>24032462
I bloody love the combat system in Reign and ORE systems in general. You should take a look at that.

>>24032522
>>24032673
Well, the first thing I'll do is say thanks to the both of you for taking the time to answer.

As for FF's 40k System, I was actually impressed with the way they did it and I was very tempted to use their system. I figured it was a bit too close to not only DH but AdEva as well. I do like the system for hitting different parts of the body however, so I may consider continuing on that path.

>>24032673
I'll be certain to take a look at those systems then. Thanks.

>>24032462

You could try using Rolemaster and find the "right" tables for you; but I only recommend the Critical Hit and Fumble tables for weaponry.
RM's system is D100, and if you roll really poor or really high you get additional rolls, which then subtract or add (respectively) to the second roll (this can be done ad infinitum). The system was made for realism. They branched out quite a bit - and for a Mecha I'd suggest the Spacemaster lasers and such.
As before, don't rip the to-hit system, just the Critical Hit and Fumble tables.

As a side note to why I say don't copy the to-hit; it took me ages to get the combat system for my Elder Scrolls pnp. The players loved the critical hits though, so in the end well worth it.
Hmm...also worth noting Rolemaster and such are old school and hard to come by.

>>24033096
I'm under the impression that d100 is a lot more popular than I thought it was. But I will certainly check out Rolemaster's charts now too.

As for to-hits, do you have any suggestions?

>Hmm...also worth noting Rolemaster and such are old school and hard to come by.
To be honest, the only Macross RPG out is a few Robotech and a Macross II one by Palladium, which is also incredibly obscure at this point. I managed to come across a copy for $2 and found myself more than a little annoyed at the systems. Thus the project to create a new Macross RPG.

All that said, thanks for the advice. Every little bit helps.

Before I answer you question directly, OP, I'd like to share a little bit.

I love Macross and Robotech, so I'm greatly interested. That being said, I've played just about every game out there that lets you use, pilot or build mechs, and I'd have to say that clunky/confusing rules and extreme time consumption are the #1 killer. Perhaps it's just my gaming group, but after the initial excitement of "We get to use mechs? AWESOME" wears off, and the reality of "LOOK AT ALL THIS FUCKING MATH" kicks in, the enthusiasm is totally drained and the entire thing ends up stagnant as hell.

I guess what I'm really getting at is wondering whether your goal here is accuracy in terms of realism/mechanics to the setting, or if you want to capture the "feeling" of the setting, which is SPEED.

Although there is some aiming in Macross with the gunpods or (limited) melee, most of that shit is handled by heat-seeking/lock-on mechanics. I recommend you seek alternative means other than adding more stats and more rolls to the game.

Almost like Ghostbusters D6.

>>24033167

d100 is great for skills and horrible for combat, imo.

>>24033200

I disagree. D100 combat is good if the bonuses and penalties are balanced.

If you haven't played it, the Fallout PnP uses an exact copy of the first three (1/2/Tactics) games. The skill used as a to-hit number is the skill appropriate to a gun - Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons.
Rolemaster is different in that every hit will connect, but factors such as heavier armour differ damage done.
I can't say much for Dark Heresy and such as I haven't played them.

The way I do it in my modern run-n-gun game :

You have an Accuracy stat and a Reaction stat.

Let's say I want to shoot someone. I want to shoot them in the chest, I have to roll over the basic score of a 10. My Accuracy is +3. I roll an 8, 8+3 = 11, so I succeed and shoot them in the chest.

But let's say I wanted to shoot them in the head instead. The head is smaller and can move, so I'd need to beat maybe a 13. I'd have failed then.

Keeps it simple. As for the Reaction stat? The reaction stat is a d100 roll. In a round, everyone rolls their initiation and goes in order. But if someone is shooting at you, you can roll your reaction. If you react to it, you can either attempt to guard, counter attack or evade, at the cost of your turn in the round. You have to declare before outcomes happen though.

Example...

P1 tries to shoot P2. P2 can either attempt to react or not at this stage. If he chooses not to, P1 rolls his attack, and either hits or misses accordingly.

Let's say that P2 chooses to react though. He chooses to react and rolls his reaction. He fails it. P1 rolls his attack and hits/misses accordingly.

Let's say P2 did not fail his reaction roll. Now he chooses what he wants to do. He counter attacks. Both players roll their attacks at the same time and possibly shoot each other. If he chose to evade, he makes a roll that greatly increases the DC of P1's attempt to hit him. Guarding only works if you have something you can shield yourself with, or blocking a punch, etc. It's not really applicable in all situations.

>>24033340

Ah, I should explain Reaction a little better.

Most people have relatively low reaction scores, like 30-35ish range.

That way, someone is about to shoot at you, and you have a Rea of 30, you need to roll 30 or under in order to react.

If you give players the ability to have high Rea like 80+, it gets retarded.

>>24033190
> Perhaps it's just my gaming group, but after the initial excitement of "We get to use mechs? AWESOME" wears off, and the reality of "LOOK AT ALL THIS FUCKING MATH" kicks in, the enthusiasm is totally drained and the entire thing ends up stagnant as hell.
To be honest, I'm usually the one who remains enthusiastic the whole way through. It depends on the whole idea of complexity though. I want to aim for at least a decent amount of cross over between the setting mechanics and the feeling. If it gets heavy in terms of rules, it sure as hell won't be the final version so I have /tg/ to kick my ass and tell me what's wrong and what should be fixed.

True, most of the combat is handled by missile spam and an ultra-high grade FCS but a lot is still dependent on pilot skill. The targeting computer is only there for assistance really. Though I admit this doesn't make much sense from a realism standpoint as they should have been using AI fighters permanently for decades even after the Sharon Apple incident.

The speed will still be there, but I want there to be a little more than just that. So far DH has been most of inspiration stat wise, but I'm here to look for an accuracy system and to see what else I can pick-up or drop. This is only because I feel like its been ground well-tread by not only 40K but AdEva as well, which is another fan-made project and something that I'm respectfully trying to give myself a little distance from.

I liked the way the Macross II RPG handled its setting, but its mechanics were a little bit frustrating. Dealing more in percentages than actual numbers wore on me. I'm also curious how I'm going to work out distances and relative speeds, but that's a question for another time.

So, Macrossbro - have you factored in how the Songstress' songs effect / modify enemy to hit and / or moral values? Or will the Songstress' not be included in this? That the 'culture shock' was able to be weaponized was one of the more weird and interesting ideas Macross got my attention for.

And the fact that it keeps working, regardless of the enemy, is also interesting. A bit ridiculous, full of handwavium, but interesting.

>>24033340
>>24033369

I'm totally going to piggyback this even into my medieval fantasy settings. My players are always bitching that they should be able to block swords with their shield or parry.

Now they can, if they feel like using up their turn in the round to do it. I love it.

So how varied and interesting will melee combat be?
Will I be able to Jade Falcon enemy mechs?

>>24033509

I'd be very interested in reading through what you make; but I probably won't be able to playtest it - I don't think my players are particularly keen on Mecha.
Have you thought of doing a hybrid tabletop/rpg like MechWarrior/Battletech? I've only played a few games of Battletech but it was pretty easy to pick up and it only got heavy if someone decided to roll up with a full-on laser weapon based mech.

>>24033340
>>24033369
>>24033340
Actually, that's pretty simple. I just assign to-hit values for body parts modified by the opponent's Stealth value and have players try to below or above those numbers, modified by the Melee or Firearms values (which are increased by their valkyrie)?

As for Reactions, I was considering going the everyone gets one Reaction per round route. Either Dodge, Block/Parry, or anti-missile options. That was to keep the speed of it, but I do suppose it would be interesting to sacrifice a turn to do such. At worst, we can come to a compromise where they can only take a Half Action if they've already performed a Reaction Action that round and cannot perform a Reaction if they've already performed something that Requires a Full Action.

>>24033545
Not planning for Songstress support yet, but hopefully that'll be something I can do down the line.

As for it working against any enemy, it is a tiny silly, but I'm of the opinion Frontier did the best to make it as viable as possible.

But yes, I did want to do Songstresses (Songsters? Male?) whenever I can get a basic system working.

>>24033583
I'm not sure honestly. Melee combat isn't something that happens too frequently in Macross, but creating a class that specializes in it with some interesting weaponry might be a possibility. Chelsea Scarlett's YF-25 had a lance, so I see no problem in making it a (relatively inefficient) gunpod as well. Also, older valks have bayonets, but I'll most likely consider keeping them in as add-ons for gunpods. Other than that, the standard PPB knife or PPB punch still applies.

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>>24033704
Frontier did a fair job of it, if I recall correctly. The latter half of Macross 7 was filled with clips where the scientists were attempting to figure out why Basara's songs effected the ProtoDevilin. Well, that and having the Meltrandi be enraged by female Songstress' and completely enamored with male Songsters. That was hilarious.

If you're still looking for statistics for the Valkyries, try the PSP games 'Macross Ace Frontier' and 'Macross Triangle Frontier'. They're only in Japanese, but have translations guides for the statistics on 90 odd percent of the various Valkyries, Destroids, and enemy mecha used in all Macross productions to date. Some units, like the Protodevilin, are not included.

Most of the main characters also have similar stats to the mechs, and are unlockable as pilots in the game, so you can compare the game's values for known characters with your own.

Pic related, the first tab for the VF-1a.
This first tab displays:

HP
Range/Shooting Defense (Defense against ranged attacks)
Melee Defense (Defense against melee attacks)
Speed/Mobility
Boost/Thruster
Balance
Rotation
Radar (effective range of the radar)

The 2nd Tab has stats for:
[Main Weapon]
3rd, 4th and 5th [Sub Weapons]
Power
Accuracy
Number of Shots Fired per Salvo.
Effective Range
Projectile Speed
Reload Speed
Ammo Count

Last Tab [Melee]:
Power
Accuracy

The game supports passwords to unlock certain things, and save files can be found to plug into emulators on the PC / PSP so you can unlock all the fighters and just see where the games place them. Gamefaqs has a save file repository, and I'm sure others exist as well.

Might save you some work.

>>24033608
Oh, no, my players aren't very keen on mecha either, so my playtesting will probably be me forcing my girlfriend to play, whatever time /tg/ can spare for such a thing, and me playing with myself.

As for doing a tabletop hybrid, I'm not sure. I thought that's what I wanted at first, but the distances and speeds traveled would make anything but abstraction a logistical nightmare. Not to mention making turning radii for Fighter and Gerwalk forms and real drawbacks for using each form other than a) Fighter hides my head and b) I can go zoomzoom faster in this form.

A basic system isn't even complete yet, but I'm working on it between doing other things so it may be some time (nothing more than the rest of the week most likely) before I find something I like and begin to construct.

I find that the hardest part seems to be actually starting and attributing stats to everything. Since only a single race/class/valkyrie has been created, I have no idea what to make the stats and how they'll relate to anything else. But we'll see.

The planned setting so far is post-Frontier era and PCs will start with VF-171s since the VF-25 schematics have been slowly passed around colonies to be mass produced but your colony hasn't them and cannot begin manufacturing any yet. Only classes I've completely decided on so far are a standard class with balanced ammo/melee skills with a stock VF-171 (I'll tweak them as necessary until we can find something it can specialize in). And a Stealth/Radar specialized class with a RVF-171, smaller weapons payload and perhaps a single QF-4000 Ghost companion to control (maybe you have to purchase or requisition one). This ties in with the Stealth/Radar system I was considering on working with.

For reference for those who don't know which they are:
http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/VF-171/VF171.php
http://sketchleystats.webatu.com/Statistics/VF-171/RVF171.php

>>24033896
Actually, I have Macross Ultimate Frontier and the most recent game, Macross 30. I actually had a Macross General about the game running from early November until recently after the game's release on /m/, so I'm very familiar with the games.

>>24033913
>whatever time /tg/ can spare for such a thing
Run a quest thread?

it works for AC-Guy and Armored Core Quest (Fucking Lances)

while this thread is up, whats the best way for someone to get into macross/robotech? Any series I should start with or skip, that sort of thing

>>24034008

Macross Plus is the easiest way to get into the series. Self contained, six episode OVA. If you like it, you'll probably enjoy the original series, and then go from there.

if you don't like it, then you only had to deal with 6 episodes, right?

>>24034008
They are all good, I would really just say watch them chronologically. SDF and Frontier have proven to be my favorites though. I would love to play Macross30 but my japanese is not up to task for that, I only just started teaching myself a month or two ago.

>>24033985
Perhaps after I get a better hold on the setting I will. I know /tg/ would certainly love those love triangle shenanigans.

>>24034008
Well, you can do either production order (which will allow you to understand everything and all references better) or you can do what I always tell anyone who wants to get into Macross. Watch Macross Plus first. Its only 4 episodes if you watch the series and only an hour and a half if you watch the compilation movie. You lose almost no time and you get to see Macross in its purest essence. If you like what you see then you can watch the original SDF Macross to get a better grasp of the universe. Frontier is the most recent and honestly my favorite but its also easy for new people to get into because it does explain at least major plotpoints of the past at the beginning of the episodes for the first couple of episodes.

For reference, production order is:
>SDF Macross (series)
>DYRL (compilation movie)
>Flashback 2012 (OVA)
>Macross Plus (series)
>Macross Plus (movie)
>Macross 7 (series)
>Macross 7 (OVAs)
>Macross Frontier (series)
>Macross Frontier: The False Songstress (movie)
>Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa (movie)

>>24034042
>>24034054
Exactly, they're all good series.

And I didn't need to learn much for Macross 30 honestly. It wasn't all that hard considering most of it was Katakana and even then if you didn't understand what it was telling you all you had to do was match the dungeon name with a name on the map.

>>24033704

>Actually, that's pretty simple. I just assign to-hit values for body parts modified by the opponent's Stealth value and have players try to below or above those numbers, modified by the Melee or Firearms values (which are increased by their valkyrie)?

Pretty much, yep. And on Reactions, if they pick Evade, there's a few options. Either increase the Stealth/Dodging/Whatever-you-use value by a flat amount for picking Evade (like +5 or +10 or something), or you force the attacker to roll twice and pick the crappier of the two rolls, or you let both players make opposed rolls. Depends on what kind of style you like.

>As for Reactions, I was considering going the everyone gets one Reaction per round route. Either Dodge, Block/Parry, or anti-missile options. That was to keep the speed of it, but I do suppose it would be interesting to sacrifice a turn to do such. At worst, we can come to a compromise where they can only take a Half Action if they've already performed a Reaction Action that round and cannot perform a Reaction if they've already performed something that Requires a Full Action.

Yeah, I play a lot with this one too. In my modern run-n-gun, combat is extremely deadly, so I make people use their turn if they want to use a Reaction. In other games, I give people so many reactions per round, 1 for most, but if you're like a sneak-ass thief or someone super nimble, you might get up to 3 Rea per round.

When Reaction is based on "x per round" instead of "sacrifice turn", it can get funny because

>Thief 1 fires crossbow at Thief 2
>Thief 2 reacts successfully; counterattacks Thief 1 with sling
>Thief 1 reacts successfully, evades

I don't usually permit people to counter-attack a counter-attacked attack, just for the sake of sanity.

>>24034074

>leaving out Macross II : Lovers Again

You monster.

>>24034008
First off, you need to know that Robotech is a different beast than Macross. Carl F. Macek took three different series (Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross and Genesis Climber MOSPEADA) and combined them, changing the original story lines to make them mesh together. If you want to watch Robotech, you need to start at episode 01 and work your way forward due to this. Robotech's version of SDF Macross is not interchangeable with watching the real Macross for understanding the other Macross Series.

The chronological order for Macross is: Macross Zero, SDF Macross, Macross Plus, Macross 7, and Macross Frontier. That said, if you're only interested in testing the waters, >>24034042 is correct. There's also a Macross Plus Movie version that's 2.4 hours long and has some footage not seen in the 6 episode OAV.

I also agree with >>24034054, as I found them to be very good, albeit trying at times. Zero and M7, particularly, but M7 grew on me until i couldn't help but like it.

Whatever you choose to do, enjoy yourself.

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OP, I understand you're mostly focused on dogfights and the like, but have you considered rules for idols and song, given that music is the most powerful force in the Macross universe?

>>24034102
M II wasn't done by Studio Nue - Big West made it on their own. As such, it's considered a 'parallel world' setting, and the events in M II do not influence or carry over to the rest of the Macross Series.

Nothing wrong with it, though. I alyways thought the idea of the Zendtradi training their own Songstress' to counter the Human's was and shore up their troops moral was a brilliant move.

>>24034074
>>24034042
>>24034054
>>24034105
>all these helpful responsesin a short period of time

Sometimes I forget why /tg/ is the best board. thank you for reminding me gentlemen

>>24034135
Could rule it as a special type of electronic warfare

>>24034074
>>24034105
Okay.

How about Macross: The Ride?

>>24034175

Wouldn't know. Haven't finished it yet.

It just... never ends.

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>>24034150
Electronic warfare might cover the "offensive" role of weaponized music (distraction), but it does not improve the performance of friendly pilots and space crewmen.

If a song can end a war, it should make sapient beings unwilling/unable to fight, in the right circumstances.

>>24034074
always liked your macross generals on /m/. another system you might want to look at for macross is Mekton Zeta. it allows you to literally build anymech you want from TSFs to Zoids to gundams to fuck huge demonbanes. most of the weapons have generic names so you can refluff them as you want. what I've been doing with my work for a muv luv game.

>>24034187
CARLOOOOOS

>>24034233

>Mekton Z

Guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh the clunkinessssss

it burnssss us

>>24034220
I did say modified.

Maybe make it based on a will save per round type of this, taking penalties to all rolls that accumulate until targets/vitims/otherwise affected cant do shit

>>24034259
We at Battletechx.com are laughing.

>>24034259
its a bit clunky but its the only game I've ffound so ar that gives you all the tools to build your own mechs and go from there.

>>24034102
Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to. If you noticed I somehow forgot Zero too.

So addendum:

>SDF Macross (series)
>DYRL (compilation movie)
>Macross II: Lovers Again (Alternate Universe sequel to SDF. Not considered canon)
>Flashback 2012 (OVA)
>Macross Plus (short series)
>Macross Plus (movie)
>Macross 7 (series)
>Macross 7 (OVAs)
>Macross Zero (short series)
>Macross Frontier (series)
>Macross Frontier: The False Songstress (movie)
>Macross Frontier: The Wings of Goodbye (movie)

>>24034141
Nothing wrong with Macross II, but also the VF-2SS wasn't designed by Shoji Kawamori and Shoji Kawamori designs ALL the variable fighters in canon from the VF-0 to the YF-30.

>>24034135
I am considering that! Though in order to get there I have to actually finish the basic mechanics and get a working system out!

>>24034144
I'm actually a bit surprised considering my announcement yesterday of starting this project was met with a lackluster response. It was probably just a slow day or nobody saw the thread.

>>24034150
I'm actually planning on working electronic warfare in with a class that uses RVFs. Perhaps any Spiritia based class could not only provide buffs or debuffs but do "damage" to a pilot directly (it doesn't physically hurt them but demoralizes them, kind of like in the games how songs deal white damage that doesn't make your opponent flinch and they flee the battlefield when their HP reaches 0). But we'll see.

>>24034175
I did give a mention to Chelsea Scarlett in >>24033704 but it doesn't have a series yet. I would indeed recommend that people read that though.

>>24034187
I see what you did there.

>>24034220
Exactly, and I'm already planning for a "Luca"-like Electronic Warfare class.

>>24034233
Good to hear it. I ended them because now that the game is out the posts slowed down substantially and I couldn't really justify keeping /m/ clogged up. But I'll give Mekton Z a looksee. We're still in the planning phase after all.

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>>24034281
Nigga what?

>>24034312
Doesn't battletech have Valkyries?

>>24034312
you can do it in battletech as well but its different. If I did it with battletech I would literally play a battletech game. Mekton feels like a clean slate for me that I can modify or change as needed.

>>24034322
nah thats robotech. robotech is a combination of battletech and macross IIRC.

>>24034338
>>24034322

No, no, he's right. Battletech does have variable fighters.

They're pretty good, too.

>>24034338
>robotech is a combination of battletech and macross IIRC.

you mean Battletech is robotech with the serial number filed off (officer's pod/Marauder for instance)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Land_Air_'Mech

>>24034322
Yes. All the 'Unseen' are designs copied from Macross, including the VF's. They're refered to as 'Land Air Mechs', aka 'LAM's.

>>24034346
my mistake, thought that was in robotech where they combine battletech, macross and like 4 other things into its on thing.

The way I have it set in Warhawks is that there are four stats for both pilots and mecha with mecha acting as (large) bonuses to the pilot's stats.

When you start each round, you roll four (less if damaged) dice and add them for initiative. Then, as actions are resolved, you can add those die results to your stats for determining if actions are successful, so while a high initiative both lets you go first and usually means you have at least one high die, the person you're attacking can assign any of his dice to the appropriate defensive stat - and now that you've assigned your dice, everyone knows where you're vulnerable.

Additionally, the way the stats are compared creates some rock-paper-scissors actions:
Melee uses Attacker's Physique vs the Defender's Intellect
Ranged uses Attacker's Intellect vs the Defender's Awareness
Psychic uses Attacker's Awareness vs the Defender's Empathy.

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>>24034338
>battletech and macross IIRC.
Not really.
Battletech has been its own thing since forever, and is only related due to using jap designs to pad TRO:3025, their first book.
Personally I would recommend checking out the universe a bit, because holy shit it is huge as fuck.

>>24034346
>LAMs
>Good
Because a 50 tonner with the loadout of a light is so good.

>>24034338
Battletech stole their early designs from Robotech, which is an unholy stitched creation of Macross and two other series that noone cares about anymore.
Nowadays, Battletech looks and acts nothing like Robotech tho, so, once again, noone cares.

>>24034259
>>24034281
Worst comes to worst, we'll find some way to make a modified version or some unholy frankenstein horror of mashed game rules as long as it works and isn't a difficult to determine rules and outcomes.

Basic plans for so far (with more on the way if this gets off the ground of course):
-*High-maneuverability charging/dogfighting class
-Electronic Warfare class
-Sniping class
-Races: Human*, Zentrandi/Meltrandi, Half-Zentran/Meltran, Zolan
-Upgrades for Valks from weapons to mechanics
-some kind of limited talent/power system

*Things that will be done first so that we can determine the balance from there. Human, Vanguard, VF-171, basic weapons and missile loadout (GU-14B Kai gunpod, hardpoints, pallets)

>>24034265
Yeah, I promise I'll get to it. I do plan on putting additional equipment so Super Packs, Armored Packs, Tornado Packs, Sound Packs, you name it.

>>24034365
That's certainly interesting. I'm adding this to my notes now too.

>>24034361

Coincidently LAMs were featured in only one technical readout; a technical readout I have. Revisions of it removed these mechs.
Battletech had a little aerospace fighter expansion as well but that's besides the point; we're talking different systems here.

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>>24034359
>Battletech is robotech with the serial number filed off
>3 LAMs, and ~10 other designs from Robotech
>Out of 500+ mechs
riiiiight. And I suppose the second succession war was just a copy of the one year war.
And the Clans are just Neo Zeo-
Wait fuck

So, any other to-hit systems anyone would like to recommend so I can make notes and compare them in my free time?

>>24034632
Battletech has an interesting system to determine to-hit rolls. And I like the division of gunnery/piloting skills.

>>24034632
Rifts assumes you hit on a 5+ unless something gets in the way. Usually people dodging, which turns defence into an opposed roll.
Non-Mega Damage Paladium has Armor Values as well, from 8+ from chain mail to 17+ for divine armor, which becomes the number you need to roll on the d20.
It works because there aren't a great deal of strike bonuses, if you're at +8 you're a fantastic warrior/shot.

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>>24032462
Hey OP, have always wanted to do the same thing you are. The X-Wing mini's game might be worth a look. It would capture the dogfight aspect of Macross pretty well.

>>24034694
I'll take a look at Battletech stuff next then I guess. More notes to look through!
I was debating making three basic skills: Melee Skills, Firearm Skills, Piloting Skills. The first two are used as you might imagine and are boosted by your variable fighter, but the second is for using talents/skills (and maybe dodging now that I think about it) as well as for prerequisites for higher fighters.

>>24034781
Yeah, I went out and got the Macross II RPG (Palladium), so I'm a bit more familiar with SD and MD now, but I wasn't ecstatic about it. If I can find a way to make it handle larger numbers outside of a d20 I'll definitely consider it. The 5+ always hits was interesting though. It would mean large numbers for Armor Points but that might necessarily be a bad thing, depending on how fast battles might take.

Of course, Radar/Avionics vs Stealth could be a simple way to refluff a to-hit system. I was hoping maybe for something a tiny bit more complex than that. Not to mention that it would only be refluffing "Attack Bonus vs AC", etc.

>>24035095
Actually, that's on my list of things to read about. I like the turn structure, so I might incorporate ideas from there. However, I'm on the line about it requiring tabletop or minis. As long as everyone keeps track of where everyone is, it might be easier to go with "theater of the mind". Of course, we have no idea how relative speed, etc works out since some valkyries can get up to Mach 5 normally (and much, much higher during atmospheric escape and space travel). I suppose we'll figure it out as we go along.

Like another anon said, don't want to turn it into more dice rolling than absolutely necessary, but I was considering having two forms of Stealth with valkyries having ratings for both. Passive Stealth is built in so always has relatively low numbers compared to Active Stealth which tend to be higher, but they're added together and the total brings a penalty for targeting an enemy. Active Stealth (which can be thought of as jamming as well as other forms of ECM) can be ignored by a valkyrie with higher Avionics/Radar, but Passive Stealth cannot.

I recognize it as a bit complicated, but there needs to be a defense for other valkyries aside from just being fast. Since the Electronic Warfare pilots won't be spending their time dogfighting but will make it a bitch for their opponents to hit them due to the ECM they'll be putting off. (Don't mistake that for meaning they'll have no means of defense. They'll probably have a Ghost (or three) at their disposal.) Electronic Warfare people will probably also be able to bestow Active Stealth buffs on their nearby squad mates in the form of ECM.

Plus I find a comprehensive character/vehicle sheet for things like this helps make keeping track of this sort of thing helpful.

>>24035237
The turn structure is fast paced, but what's nice is the customizing of units. Pilots and equipment are mostly variable. Table space and relative speed would be a big issue though. Good luck with your game OP!

>>24035237
As far as it goes with BT, I'll give you a basic rundown:
Basically, to hit, you want to roll 3d6 over a certain number. To get the number, you add the pilot's gunnery, usually 4, to a set of modifiers.
The meat of the system comes from the mods, which come from the range of the weapon used, the distance the opponent ran this turn, whether the firing pilot has ran/walked/used JJs this turn, the amount of heat on the machine, interdicting terrain, targeting computers, neural interface units... I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, but basically it means that the system is complex, but only requires a single to-hit roll, which is nice.
Well, there is the cluster-hits table, for multi-shot weapons.
Uh... Piloting comes into play with things called Pilot Skill Rolls, or PSRs, and in determining melee. PSRs are used mostly to check if a 'mech is going to fall, and it's the same 3d6 roll over piloting skill+mods.
Now, I don't want you to think "this is the best way" or anything, just look at it and see what you do/do not like.

>>24035514
I'll be sure to consider it. Thanks for taking the time to help out.

>>24036058
Okay, That's something I'll consider too. Thanks.

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The idea is to have an out of valkyrie story aspect too, where the pilot's stats will come into play.

>So! Potential ideas for pilots stats are as follows.
Melee Skill - How skilled you are at fighting unarmed or with melee weapons
Firearms Skill - How skilled you are at accurately shooting firearms
Piloting Skill - How skilled you are at piloting vehicles from normal cars up to valkyries

Strength - Physical strength. How much you can lift/pull/push/carry. (Maybe adds damage to melee attacks?)
Dexterity - Ability to move quickly/quietly, how well you can avoid attacks (may be a bonus to dodging as well since it takes quick reflexes)
Intelligence - How smart you are. A measure of how well you can manipulate complex objects/interact with electronics/maintaim ECM
Charisma - Ability to influence others, same as other games. (Possibly a tie in with a future Songstress/Songster class).

>Potential ideas for Variable Fighter stats are as follows:
Melee Assist(ance System): - How much the valkyrie's targeting computer assists with the set-up and execution of CQC attacks.
Fire Control (System): How much the valkyrie's targeting computer assists with the firing of guns, beams, and cannons.

Actuator Strength - How much weight the valkyrie can lift/pull/push carry. Also adds damage to melee attacks.
Active Stealth* - How well your valkyrie can use its internal electronics to counteract all forms of detection and targeting. Can be counteracted and neutralized with strong avionics.
Passive Stealth* - How well your valkyrie's fuselage naturally counteracts all forms of detection and targeting. Cannot be counteracted.
Avionics/Radar - How well your valkyrie can detect and lock on to enemies. A sufficiently strong Avionics/Radar array can counteract or even ignore an enemy's attempt at jamming or concealment.
Agility - How maneuverable your fighter is. You use Agility to test for Dodges and some talent checks.

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>>24040082
*Passive Stealth and Active Stealth are added together. Avionics/Radar are used to detect hidden enemies (Perception) and counteract an enemies' Active Stealth but not their Passive Stealth. Since Passive Stealth is a static number, it would tend to be lower than Active Stealth.

The idea is that some valkyries would have better Avionics/Radar systems and thus perform better against stealthy enemies, which, according to canon is nearly every enemy they've come across and an integral part of valkyries themselves.

The idea is to not make Stealthy enemies unhittable for valkyries with low avionics/radar ratings, but definitely a bit harder. That really only affects the up close fighter for now. Snipers might have tricks to counteract stealth with their average avionics/radar and EW Specialists will probably be able to neutralize or ignore it entirely as well as pass those bonuses to allies though they're slower and not as good with weapons.

As for armament, I'm not sure how I want to handle it. Underwing hardpoints/pallets/etc. Though it probably wouldn't hurt to go that route.

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>>24040441
Since I'm not sure what numbers to even start with and creating something in a vacuum is a freaking nightmare I suppose I'll start with armor.

Perhaps 500 AP total for Battroid would be a good place to start? Tell me if I'm doing this thing wrong.

>General Galaxy VF-171 Nightmare Plus = Battroid
Head - 30
Arms - 60 each
Main Body - 200
Legs - 75 each

>General Galaxy VF-171 Nightmare Plus = Gerwalk
Cockpit/Nose - 100
Main Body - 200
Arms - 60 each
Wings - 50 each
Legs - 75 each

>General Galaxy VF-171 Nightmare Plus = Fighter
Nose/Cockpit - 100
Main Body - 200
Wings - 50 each
Engines - 75 each

>>24043334
Well, Battroid has 500AP spread across 4 locations, Gerwalk has 670AP and Fighter has 550AP. I don't think Battroid should have more than Fighter. Maybe if they shoot you in the back in Battroid they should hit your wings? That should fix the armor disparity.

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>>24043778
Okay, sounds good. So Battroid has 5 places to hit with 600 AP, Gerwalk has 5 places to hit also with 670 AP and Fighter has 4 places to hit with 550 AP.

Battroid - 600 AP
Gerwalk - 670 AP
Figher - 550 AP

Fighter has less places to hit but that might not necessarily be a good thing since its easier to hit everything. Maybe variable fighters get a bonus to agility for being in fighter mode? I dunno, just throwing out ideas.

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>>24046308
Well, I guess that's it for tonight. I'll figure out some more stuff tomorrow. Probably test a few of the to-hit systems and see what works. Maybe I can get a grip on weapon damage and maybe do a better job determining stats.

Good night /tg/

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>>24034439

Two, actually. TRO: 3025 (which used licensed art for a fair chunk of the original 'Mechs from Dougram, Crusher Joe, and Macross) and the later TRO 3085, which covers them as well in their "MK 1" versions, which don't resemble the Macross models at all and look more like variable-form stealth fighters.

(And also end up with 3075-ish era upgrades with modern tech courtesy of the Wobbies.)

The artwork is also more appropriate for a sci-fi fighter rather than the retrotech look of an 1980's aircraft that turns into a giant robot.

Oh, and another thing you can do- give guided weapons their own effective "gunnery" skill, weapons that actually require aiming using the pilot's instead.

So if you're sitting there rippling off a dozen missiles, they use their guidance system for to-hits, while the burst of shells from that hand-held gunpod relies on the pilot's skill instead.

Yes, this means a scrub shot with cannons can be a missile-ace, but that's OK.

>>24051950
Thanks for the reply. Yup, that was the plan. Missile to-hit stats can't be augmented by the pilot. Once you have a lock and fire, its up to them to hit. Of course that doesn't mean you can't upgrade the targeting on your missiles later on.

Anyone have any good ideas for gunpod armor ratings? Can't be much more than the arms themselves I imagine. Maybe 50? And considering the numbers we have already, we're looking at 200 to the main body to destroy the fighter or at least incapacitate it.

So...

>Howard GU-14B Kai Gatling Gunpod
Armor - 50 AP
Type - Assault
Damage - Short Burst (5 rounds) 1d4x10
- Full Auto (25 rounds) 1d6x10
Range - (Nothing for ranges yet I guess)
Payload - 200 rounds

Ah, shit. I just realized that individual guns should have their own accuracies too...
Ah well, I guess we can just make it two levels of combat.
>1st Phase: Targeting
>2nd Phase: Engaging
>3rd Phase: Reaction
>4th Phase: Resolution
>Targeting Stage: 1st stage would be targeting and attaining a lock.
Your Avionics vs Opponent's total Stealth (Active + Passive)
Still thinking about making it somewhat dice based, so characters with low Avionics can still get hits. Characters with Avionics higher than the enemy's Active Stealth can ignore it. Also still figuring out what dice to use for this.

>Engagement Stage: 2nd stage would be determining hits and actually calculating damage
Character's Melee Skill + Valkyrie's Melee Assist
or
Character's Firearm Skill + Valkyrie's Fire Control + ?Weapon's Accuracy?
>Reaction Phase: 3rd Phase gives a chance for the opponent to react and try to dodge/shoot down missiles depending on the mode.
>Resolution Phase: 4th Phase if they don't avoid the attack, apply weapon damage.
I'm considering using DH's system for determining where weapons hit, but I'm not sure yet.

Just a reminder that this was just something I was thinking of. This is without a doubt overly complex, but I suppose I'll strip it down as I look at other systems.

>>24054603
On second thought...if you hit with either firing mode, you could probably blow someone's head off with little to no trouble. Assuming you can even target them. Would you rather it be unforgiving like that where you might unexpectedly get killed? Or would you prefer dealing and taking just a bit more damage?

>>24054861
try using something out of BRP. alot of it is intuitive