>>28554325
bump.

>>28556536
Last bump. No more bumps after this. Sorry if this bothered anybody.

>>28554325
>Ideas? Criticism?
A blog would be good so we can follow this. I read the thread in which this project originated. Maybe a 1d4chan page?

> The Void
Can anyone tell me about this?

>>28561208
The Void is basically a more space opera form of the game. It has far fewer details on what the elderitch threats are, due to the fact that in this setting, humanity has yet to accept things like magic and noneuclidian geometric sciences.

I uploaded the PDF in the original post.

>>28561151
I'm going to overhaul the initial experience buy system and such in a PDF then I'll put it up here and make a 1d4chan article.

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>>28561208
hellstar remina: the RPG

>>28562611
I'm not sure that's -entirely- accruate... in Hellstar remina they weren't actually able to fight back right?

In The Void you play as elderitch bug hunters most of the time. You're out gunned, but you're still got a shot at surviving.

>>28562564
>>28554325

HOLY FUCK you're still around.

>>28562744
Yes I am, I'm also Game Design Anon from the Game Design Thread that died earlier in the week, and rather than just running it every single time it falls apart, I'm going to start running it every weekend instead. Just easier to deal with and such.

And yes, I am still working on this. I just don't go around name/trip fagging except when I absolutely have to. It's just rude. And there's no reason to name/tripfag over this until I get something finalized.

I lurk around a lot, I'm not just going to vanish off the face of the earth. If you really want to keep track of my activities, just follow shadowclasper on the 1d4chan wiki.

>>28564833
Anyway guys. So far things I've figured out:

We're going to need to adjust the way experience is spent, and especially how character professions work.

We'll need some more racial types than the base 2, and what they get will be 3 skills, not a slew of things that they get in the game.

1) Arcology Born Human (very technologically sound and very well read)
2) Rural Born Human (less well read, but more survival skills)
3) Coastal Born Human (similar to rural born human, but focus on some occult knowledge from encounters with deep ones and dagon cult)
4) Refugee Born Human (battle skills and occult knowledge)
5) Fleet Born Nazadi (combat and leadership skills)
6) Arcology Born Nazadi (culture focused skills)
7) Nazza-Duhni Born Nazadi (mix of culture and military focused skills)

Is what I came up with for the races so far. Any others we should include that I'm missing out on for starting races following The Void's template?

>>28566696
One thing I'm worried about is how to make the magic shit work. It's not used in The Void. Any ideas?

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>>28554325
Since this is a cthulutech thread, this is obligatory. It's surprisingly good if you like Evangelion, and since cthulutech's setting gives me a boner but I'll probably never play it, it helps to scratch that itch.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5834947/1/Aeon-Entelechy-Evangelion

>>28569801
interesting, I'll read it through tonight.

>>28569980
Just got to the point where I can compare and constrast the combat systems.

Many of you will be happy to know that we can literally just rip out the old combat system from cthulhutech and replace it entirely.

Opposed tests, if you equal or exceed your opponent's defense test with your attack test, you hit. We can mix in some of cthulu tech's stuff for bonus damage and similar, and the weapons in cthulhutech will need modifications for the new damage system. Which is pure "roll Xd6 and that's how much damage you inflict"

none of this "you roll a number of dice + str modifier + weapon dmg modifier" bullshit.

And so my friends, I am happy to say that at this point, all that will need overhauling is the character creation systems and the flat stats on equipment for the base game.

This should, in theory, make arcanotechnicians, soldiers, and intelligence agents playable using the rules of The Void (no surprise really, those were always the lowest powered professions in Cthulhutech)

So who wants to get with me on recrunching this stuff?

>>28572683
Quick modification.

There is still a holdover from the old system of "how badly you beat your opponent's defense roll modifies your damage" but it's easy.

>You roll attack dice, he rolls defense dice.
>If the numbers are equal, then you hit, and he takes flat damage from the dice supplied by your weapon (so a pistol might deal 2d6 damage).
>You roll higher. For every success above his you have, you add 1d6 to your damage roll.

So still simpler and more streamlined than Cthulhutech.

Armor in The Void works simply. No dice rolling to see how much you damage you don't take, and as far as I can tell does the same to both projectile and trauma type attacks as Cthulhutech calls it.

You have X amount of damage resistence while you are above a certain level of HP. When you reach another level of HP, the armor will stop absorbing as much damage usually (because you're more vulnerable as a target, and because it's been perforated and shit).

So there you go guys. We've got our work cut out for us, but the systems ARE compatible. They just need a lot of shit restated for the basic game itself.

I'm going to start examining tagers, mechs, and spells next.

>>28569362
Isn't it just a pool thing and skill test in CTech? Sorry, don't have this clear.

ORE uses a Will pool in some of its settings, both to power stuff and to grit your teeth through shit. Equivalent would be like tying... Drama Points? to Orgone and maybe other stuff. If there is a place to trim some fat, it is in all the subsystems.

WAIT.
TV is open sauce.
What if we give the company our fix once we're done? It would ensure massive distribution on a large scale.

Also, where do I get all relevant CTech PDFs? I lost 'em.

>>28572802
So it has depleting armor built in? Seems like it could at least have tagers and small mechs tacked in.

Probably for bigger size differences, you actually need extra successes, or only the 6s count? Unless hybrid damage, obviously.

>>28573268
>punching a mech so hard it explodes

>>28572802
In CTech, you roll all your dice to hit. They roll all their dice to defend. You then both check to see what you got exactly (you do this by either picking the highest number rolled, or the set of dice with the same number rolled, or with the most straights. So you roll a buncha dice, and you could get a 7, or a 6+6=12, or a 1+2+3+4+5=16). Then you add in any relevant attribute bonuses (so my strength gives me like +4 or something to whatever I rolled), then I check the difference. If I rolled higher than my opponent, I then roll a number of dice based on how WELL I did compared to them, and then add in any flat modifiers from my weapon to that roll, and that is how much damage I deal.

So no. It is not a pool thing with CTech. And there is no place to trim the fat in CTech, it's easier to burn the system to the ground and try to bring some of the subsystems over to The Void than it is to try and fix the problems with CTech.

>>28572967
Yes, yes it is. I did say that in the first post. But yes, we can totally make the conversion and publish it, kinda, sorta, maybe... it's unclear considering we'd be jacking material from a non creative commons set of books.

There's some here on /rs/, and others you can find around. Go look up the full list of published books on wikipedia or something.

>>28573268
Yes, it is. And the way it works is by pseudo-fudge dice. 5+ is a success. No such thing as failures, but getting all 1's or a certain amount of 1's is considered a failure.

Not sure how hybrid damage works exactly (still trying to puzzle out the CTech systems), can somebody break that down please.

>>28573676
>Yes, yes it is. I did say that in the first post.
It wasn't meant to be as a grand revelation; Just meant to say we could use it to our advantage.
> it's unclear considering we'd be jacking material from a non creative commons set of books.
We could just ask.

>>28573698
>We could just ask.
Sounds like a plan.

Now can somebody please break down how the systems for spell casting and mechs and tagers work so we can begin conversion? The rest isn't going to take much work in actuallity, and I'm still working my way through it, and some of it is fucking labrynthine (also It's 2 in the fucking morning and I can't go to sleep yet)

>>28573731
>Now can somebody please break down how the systems for spell casting and mechs and tagers work so we can begin conversion?
ETA on that is two days for me. Mechanics aren't my forte but I'll give it a try, maybe using a dirty hacked-together mashup of The Void and WHFRP.

>Sounds like a plan.
Sarcasm? Sorry, such things translate badly into text.

>>28573676

You didn't mention how the damage rolls and the attack rolls work completely different. That's another annoying one.

So yeah, you make a combat skill check against a defense skill check to hit. Those two rolls both use poker dice. However, when you roll damage based on how well you hit (1-4 extra dice) and the base value of your weapon/strength in dice. So if you hit by say, 6, you would do 2 extra dice on top of your basic 4 dice damage. That roll is completely additive, as in you total the value of all dice instead of taking the best dice away like the previous attack roll. This is against armor which is also additive. The difference is how much damage you do.

It... could be better, put simply. I suppose you could speed it up by removing the random element of damage. Say you assume every dice will get a result of 5, and each point of armor removes one dice of damage. Boring but it would half the number of rolls at least.

>>28573764
>Sarcasm? Sorry, such things translate badly into text.
No sarcasm. Just my way of saying when I like an idea and intend to follow through on it.

>>28573779
The goal is to use The Void's systems.

The Void does is simply.

You roll a dice pool, success based system against each other. Both are exactly the same (atk attribute + atk skill versus def attribute + def skill). Then you compare successes.

Equal successes? You hit and do damage equal to your weapon's damage dice (which are plainly stated). Then you roll extra d6 for each success over your opponent you got. Add all that up. That's how much damage you dealt. Minus the protection value of the armor. So if I deal 4d6 damage and get max damage (so 16) and you're wearing 10 points of armor, then you only take 6 points of damage.

Your total HP is the same as before, 4 times the appropriate stat. You go from bruised (-1 dice to all actions), to battered (-2 dice to all actions), to hurt (-4 dice to all actions and half your speed and armor value), to Incapacitated.

So yeah, the damage systems at their base level are the same, they use the same building blocks but the resolution systems for them are entirely different, and TV's is by far more intuative and simpler, even if you're dealing straight up additive damage instead of success based dice rolls.

>>28573877
Forgot to mention that you get +1 damage dice for every success you beat your opponent by.

>>28573889
No you didn't.

>>28573877
>Then you roll extra d6 for each success over your opponent you got.

>>28573764
>a dirty hacked-together mashup of The Void and WHFRP.
Perils tables?

Have a supportive bump. I adore CTech (even if some parts of the fluff try a bit too hard) and would love to see this succeed.

>>28574272
> adoring Rape Culture: The setting

>>28575169
What does Rape Culture mean in this context?

>>28562564
Waiting warmly, DesignAnon. Waiting warmly indeed.

>>28564833
>shadowclasper
Got it.
Do you into IRC?

>>28576711
Burning Horizon makes mention of the current #1 hit single, 'No Means Yes'.

If this were a different dev studio, I'd entertain the idea that they're just fucking with people, or are doing it self awarely, as a nod toward it all.

With Wildfire, I do not consider that a likelihood.

>>28576779
Are you

>>28575169
?
Also, how to best get in contact with people in charge there?

>>28576800
>>28576779
When in doubt, assume the most sanity-preserving option. I think that applies IC too, right?

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>>28576711

Rape factories
Races geared for rape
Tentacle rape
Rape rape rape

>>28576839
> adult elin I'd say bunny girl except those hipsyes I know it's way older than TERA

You had my attention. Now you have my arousal.

>>28576839
T-touch fluffy tail?

>>28576839
I'm starting to think that half the reason Cthulhutech even has a fanbase is because people keep posting this picture thinking that it's going to get people to hate it.

Fun fact: it won't.

>>28576800
No, I'm not the same guy.

As for contact, their site probably has an email you can bug them on, and I believe they have a forum as well.

>>28576839
Doesn't CTech have guns that run on aborted children, or was that Delta Green?
> Rape Factories
The ridiculousness eclipses the squick factor quite a bit here. What was the word >TVT had for it? Narm?

>>28576893
>thinking that it's going to get people to hate it.
That's an interesting thought process.

>>28576900
>eMail
Eh. Alright, thanks.

>>28576919
>Doesn't CTech have guns that run on aborted children, or was that Delta Green?

Possibly Delta Green, but CTech has sorcerous battery-packs that extract life-energy from infants.

>>28576934
>>28576919
Actually, that makes me wonder if the two could be crossed over.

>>28576942
There's little reason to, really. DG is all about it being a secret war, a clandestine conflict between rather morally gray factions pitted against very much black ones. Ctech is overt as hell, and even it's hidden parts are cartoonish. The only thing worth crossing over is the handling of the Migou, since Wildfire cannot write aliens for shit and their Migou are just terrible.

>>28576893

Eh, it's the only picture that pictures "rape something" in Cthulhutech. I know how it looks and I know it won't turn off anybody.

>>28576971
> yfw DG is a prequel

>>28576919
Yea, it was DG. Also keep alive bump.

I'm just going to comment on the rape culture thing. Somebody mentioned this in the last thread.

The Cthulhu mythos has ALWAYS used rape, the defilement of sexuality and intercourse, as a fairly major facet. From the deepones to the horned ones (though I have to say, I am not a fan of them portraying the horned ones as they did. They should have gone with an H. R. Giger approach to their appearance, horrifying, yet weirdly sexual, and if you've looked at enough of that guy's work you know what I'm talking about).

They lace the entire fucking book with allusions to the fact that humanity is FALLING into depravity, that the cults are PUSHING it that way. The Death Shadow cells for example have constantly been trying to warp and twist culture to be worse and more depraved.

The guys at wildfire are -totally- aware of the rape culture thing, and it is not done because it is their fucking fetish (you can tell because it's never even fucking mentioned in The Void, read the book, you'll see), they do it and mention it casually as they do to create a dissonance in the mind of the reader, to make the reader actually sorta recoil from what human culture is turning into as they try to survive the efforts of both the cults and the migou and all the others.

The idea is that humanity is being corrupted into something far worse than simply being annihilated in their attempts to survive. A hedonistic society that is slowly becoming an empty shell without substance, focused purely on living in the moment and on survival with no other goals as they attempt to deal with the horrors inflicted upon them.

That is why the 'rape culture' is throughout the whole book. Because it is an easy button to press to make us horrified, and it's also one that is appropriate to the mythos. (Seriously, Lovecraft was a racist asshole who was terrified of miscegenation and the 'polluting of the race')

>>28581116
Okay, one thing we're probably going to need to do is revise how the fuck the integrity scale works entirely.

Right now the integrity:vitality scale is 50:1. That's a really bad ratio. Yes, it's good at conveying the fact that mechs are supposed to be these untouchable monstrosities, but it REALLY hinders gameplay between the two sets. We either need to increase the number of anti-integrity weapons for the lower down areas, or find some other adjustment.

It might be as simple as having it be a 10:1 scale. Still fucking massive, but not insurmountable.

What do you guys think? Would this make bringing mechs and vitality level players closer together easier?

>>28554325
How about a life path system for char gen?

>>28581272
Get a wmd ratio going. Look up myriad to see what im talking about. Basically, some things are too tough to damage unless you puncture their armor. Launch a missile at a bunker and you may lower its wmd ratio to where it can be damaged by small arms. Or simply danage it if you roll poorly.

>>28581391
Nah, as I said, we're not trying to tack on stuff here, we're trying to convert Cthulhutech over to The Void, so that the two share a common system as closely as possible. We only tack on stuff when necessary.

Read the PDF at the top to see how char gen works for The Void.
>Pick Race/Planet of Birth
>Pick Profession, spend points as you see fit inside that profession's limits
>Or use all your points and free build a character.

The only difference is that we're building a buncha characters rather than just 3, and we're splitting up the races of earth into more stuff (rather than just 2-5 depending on what splat books you use).

As much fun as it would be to use the life path system similar to traveler, it overcomplicates things.

>>28581116
I agree, but they push it so far it STOPS being horrifying and starts being hilarious. Which really shouldn't happen as it is bad storytelling completely removed from any ethical implications.

>>28582746
I've not reached that point in reading it yet, but maybe as I start to crack open the splatbooks it'll get to that point. Regardless, that it's their fetish is something that is patently untrue. They're just bad at subtly.

>>28582823
>They're just bad at subtly.
Yes. That's exactly my problem. THE problem.

>>28582855
my apologies. I thought you were bringing up the thing that everyone else had been bringing up in other threads, that some how the makers of the game actually believed that this was IDEAL or something

>>28583006
No no, far from it. Same with folks thinking that the game was pro child prostitution or something.

>>28581116
See, the issue is that the writing is so teeth gnashingly bad that it's hard to tell where does the 'Ooooh, theeemes~' start and where the fedora ends. See: the whole Islam debacle.

Also, don't forget, on top of raaaaaaaperaperaperape they also seem to think taking away player agency is an amazing idea, making them pay out the ass in XP for RP gains with no mechanical benefit they legitimately earned by doing cool stuff is the name of the game, and that making so they never catch the real villains, making them goddamn invincible and always capable of escape, until you deign to throw them a bone and let them kill /something/, is real GM-ing.

There's more at work here than 'hurr they jack off to rape'. Plain simply put, they are terrible at the whole thing, from system mechanics to idea execution to fluff details. And yes, as it's been said here, they are horrible at any semblance of subtlety, and throw tryhard edgy crap that you'd expect from a teenager in your face (see: the highest super secret agency are longcoat wearing tetragrammaton clerics).

>>28583089
>(see: the highest super secret agency are longcoat wearing tetragrammaton clerics).

That sounds absolutely amazing.

And really, the bulk of your criticism is about GMing style, as if that was a thing dictated by the system. It's not.

>>28583089
>are longcoat wearing tetragrammaton clerics).
B-but that's cool. I'm that juvenile, I know.

>>28583089
>See: the whole Islam debacle.

explain

>>28583136
>>28583152
Backing both these guys.

Simply put. The fluff as it is written is for the most part awesome and fine as it is. Not perfect, but we can't have everything, and come on, what did you expect when they tried to mix and match anime tropes with lovecraftian ones?

Anyway, read through how they handle things in The Void (and you have no excuse not to, I put the fucking thing up in the first post), over all how exp and such is handled is much better.

>>28583205
The claim is that islam is still filled with crazy terrorists and such... but from reading the first part of the book where they talk about this, while both Catholicism and Islam are still the predominant religions in the world, they both have mostly SETTLED the crazy extremist bullshit except for a few incredibly minor sects that are all but extinct...

The common theme in that respect is that "people legitimately have stopped giving a fuck about your creed, sexuality, or your skin color, what's important is that you're not trying to bring about the extinction/enslavement of the human species, everything else is just trappings."

If somebody can point out WHERE they state that Islam is still filled with crazed terrorists and catholicism isn't (as in which book) I'll concede the point, but so far it seems to be the same as the pedophillia remarks. I've yet to see any evidence of it, and it just seems to be people making shit up or misreading things.

>>28583136
It's the supplied adventures, which are indicative of what the writers think. I mean for Christ's sake, they thought including an adventure that's one PC getting kidnapped, tortured, fed other people, and forced to watch a preadolescent girl getting raped repeatedly, with ZERO way to affect anything, while the other PCs flounder about until the magical time wizard GMPC tells them where to go, and then the villains just run off and try to commit suicide when cornered.

>>28583205
When the whole Mythos+Migou+Zentradi thing comes out, the religions of the world go '...buh? Whuh? I don't understand, this clearly overpowers my primitive non-atheist brain and I cannot cope with it!'. IIRC, 4/5th of all Islam believers go nuts, try to murder the other 1/5th, then go full on terrorist on the rest of the world in...I don't know, existential crisis induced madness? And then almost everyone gives up on religion, and most of the remaining convert to a hugbox nondenominational bubblegum faith that's basically group therapy. It's just dumb beyond words.

>>28583152
That's fine! That is A-OK. But they take it absolutely seriously, and fail to make it interesting.

>>28583288
I've read the Void, it seems fine. I've got no beef with it.

>>28583418
The chapter on religion is in Mortal Remains, I think.

>>28583321
>It's the supplied adventures, which are indicative of what the writers think.

What the writers think is rather irrelevant to the quality of the system though.

As are supplied adventures. I have never used a supplied adventure for any system and don't see why I ever would.

>>28583321
>PC getting kidnapped, tortured, fed other people, and forced to watch a preadolescent girl getting raped repeatedly, with ZERO way to affect anything, while the other PCs flounder about until the magical time wizard GMPC tells them where to go,
See, that's what I meant. It starts out horrifying and then nosedives into hilarious.

>>28583481
That's great. You know who supplied adventures are especially good for? New GMs. They are the ones most in need of solid structure.

Also, you quite literally cannot say that the adventures included have no bearing on a game book's quality. It's part of it. The actual system, not so much, but I wasn't talking mechanics.

And again. If the writers don't think these adventures were good or at least passable, they wouldn't include them. And they are a mix of agonizing to play and boring. Really, that's the biggest cardinal sin. You can talk about how terrible the subject matter or it's handling is, but when you make it dour and uninteresting, then you really have nothing to stand on. Which the adventures regularly do, by stealing control, achievements, and sitting GMPCs on your shoulders to guide your steps.

Also, the metaplot is just such terrible bait and switch. 'Hey guys, we'll write about Chine in the next book! Whoops, looks like all we wrote about was how the Rapine Storm fucking ate China!' And my personal favorite: 'Oh nnnnno! Another Migou mothership is coming! Guys, this is really bad! Oh, and we'll talk more about it in Burning Horizon, the next book to come! *it comes out* Fooled you! Before it does anything, the supposedly lost but in the end not really colonies attack Pluto, so they have to turn the car back around! Dodged that bullet, huh?!'

>>28583418
To expand: The Void seems better written (even if the fiction before each chapter is pretty bleh still), has a working system, and an actually pretty decent starting adventure that should very much help new GMs find their footing. It's an all around improvement. Seems like years of selling badly and getting trashtalked over the internet has paid off, or maybe it's just time making them more mature. Maybe just a change in management, it's really anyone's guess, but it's a positive improvement of everything they've done before.

>>28583477
I'll check it out.

>>28583321
That seems odd, that's the exact opposite of what the core book states about the entire thing. Religions are holding strong for the most part.

>>28583481
Supplied adventures are idiotic. Sometimes they provide cool ideas (like in one where you discover the second Migou hive ship is coming and it suggests that you have one of the NPCs commit suicide on the spot, really drive home the horror that the players should be feeling)

Anyway.

Idea for the damage scale that might bring things into good perspective for mechs.

What if for integrity level, we do the same thing as for the various levels of harm in The Void?

EG:
(3/4 vitality) Bruised: -1 dice to actions,
(2/4 vitality) Battered: -2 dice to actions
(1/4 vitality) Hurt: -4 to actions, 1/2 speed and 1/2 armor.
(0/4 vitality) Unconcious: Obvious.

Stage 0, Undamaged:
>Integrity is worth 20:1 vitality
Stage 1, Cosmetic Damage (3/4ths Integrity)
>Integrity is worth 10:1 vitality
>-1 dice to all actions
Stage 2, Moderate Damage (2/4ths Integrity)
>Integrity is worth 5:1 vitality
>-2 dice to all actions
Stage 3, Serious Damage (1/4th Integrity)
>Integrity is worth 2:1 vitality, small arms fire is going to be getting into the works and fucking shit up at this point.
>-4 dice to all actions
Stage 4, Critical Damage (0/4 Integrity)
>No actions except ejecting your self. Mech is at risk of exploding at this point if it takes much more damage.

Sounds good for bringing Integrity scale down to par with the vitality scale combat.

>>28583660
I have to agree the bait and switch is pretty godaweful. They should have had holdouts for china so we'd get an idea for how their culture was uniquely effected compared to the rest of the world, especially considering their roots and how threatened they were on all sides.


>>28583730

>>28583730

Migou hive ship threat seems like a legit one, but they could have used the metaplot to expand on the colonies, reestablishing contact as the need to fucking delay the hive ship became paramount.

>>28583730
Yeah, and that's why I want to use it as a basis for repairing the damage done to Cthulhutech.

>>28583793
How will you represent the mechs and power armor? Will they require skills to work, and if so, what will those skills do? What decides what equipment you'll end up with?

>>28583793
>Integrity penalties
This would replace System Failure, then? Otherwise extra fragility, losing weapon systems and getting less dice (mechs give up to +2) seems way harsh.

Granted, they regenerate too, but the SF was interesting to mod (custom systems? change the SF code). Shame sensors didn't include SF.

>>28584505
Hmmm... we do need to work on this. Perhaps we remove the getting less dice and keep the system failure system alongside the new degrading integrity system?

>>28584334
I'm unsure how to handle it. I need to understand better how mechs work before making a judgement call, but right now keeping them as equipment seems the easiest way to handle it. Same for power armor.

Also pilot skill just as last time. The idea is that mechs due to the whole weirdness caused by D-Engines are more like extensions of the body.

>>28585354
IMO it'd be best if you try to translate as much of the Engel/Mecha mechanics as possible instead of it being lost to abstraction

It should be noted that there will be integrity scale armor, and that armor functions exactly the same on this scale.

I'm still working on how this'll work when you include armor... it might just be a balance thing.

any ideas? Maybe the scale should go
10(4/4 integrity) to 5(3/4 integrity) to 3(2/4 integrity) to 2(1/4 integrity). Same applies to armor.

So you have an integrity armor value of 10, it reduces all integrity damage by 10. At 100% integrity, that's reducing vitality damage by 100, at 75% it's reducing vitality damage by 50, at 50% it's reducing vitality damage by 30, at 25% it's reducing vitality damage by 20? Or even just down to 10 if we want to include the whole "at 1/4th health your armor is half as effective).

Make sense? Or is it too convoluted?

>>28585451
Yeah. We'll have it so that mechs have system failure rather than reduced dice.

>>28585499
Anyway, let's say we have a mech with 20 integrity and 10 integrity armor.

4/4 integrity (80 total): worth 200 vitality, and 100 points of vitality armor.
3/4 integrity (60 total): worth 100 points of vitality, and 50 points of vitality armor
2/4 integrity (40 total): worth 60 points of vitality, and 30 points of vitality armor.
1/4 integrity (20 total): worth 40 points of vitality, and 20 points of vitality armor (or 10 points if armor is only half as effective).

Too convoluted and the power gap still too huge? Or is this more surmountable?

>>28585593
Light and cosmetic damage will need to be put into one single damage level for such things.

>>28585593
Just as a note, having 10/10 integrity armor would probably not apply to mechs so much as fuck huge star ships and such.

Anybody able to tell me what AP (armor points) on mecha means? It doesn't seem to translate into their integrity scale armor at all.

They don't seem to specify it anywhere at all, so I'm curious.

>>28585636
Light damage is more than cosmetic.

>>28585792
The point is that unless mechs seem to have 5 levels of damage beyond 'undamaged". We have 4 to work with, one of which is taken up by "critically damaged"
See what I mean?

>>28585821
Sorry. I havent read The Void and not CTech in years. You saying The Void only has 4 levels, but CTech has 5?

For tagers, they seem to be able to be shifted in almost unchanged. The only thing I'd do is jack up the exp price of the tager quality during character creation.

>>28585769
I think it is a cost system?. Problem is the book goes from general to specific, even though the chapters seem independent. It may have been mentioned way back.

Anyway, I'm not sure how Integrity armor should work based on CTech/Void. First hunch is "reduce successes for Vit sources, damage for Int sources" and it depletes like normal, but that may make it them too hardy. Are there rules for cover?

As someone who was told the Cthulhutech rules sucked yet found the setting interestingly animu with a side of mindrape and biosuits that can do Metal Gear Rising shit, I am HIGHLY interested in where you are going with this OP.

Just saying

>>28586386
Thank you! And yes, they do suck.

>>28586336
There are rules for cover in The Void, but they're just basically adding defensive dice to your rolls against being damaged as I recall.

And actually, the whole 'reduces successes for vit-dmg' sources might be just the thing to do it. Since the highest mech armor I've seen is a 4, that suits it perfectly. It means that you need to be absurdly lucky with your little pee shooter to actually damage a mech. But if you have the ability, and the mech's pilot sucks, you can luck out.

I like it a lot.

Also. tweaking numbers again.

1 Integrity = 5 Vitality.

So then. We take our 20 integrity mech right? That gives him a total of 80 HP total in this system. With the system reducing that ratio by 1 each time you drop a damage grade

Undamaged (80 HP): He can take a total of 100 Vitality damage before he'll drop to the next level.
Cosmetic/Light Damage (60 HP): He can take a total of 80 Vitality damage before dropping to the next level.
Medium Damage (40 HP): He can take a total of 60 vitality damage before he drops to the next level.
Serious Damage (20 HP): He can take a total of 40 vitality damage before he drops to the next level).

Now, it's important to note, this might drop us TOO far.

In The Void, it seems that small arms do an average of 3d6 damage a turn. That means that on average, mechs will lose 1 Integrity for each person firing at them per turn, maybe more.

Is everyone cool with this?

A way to mitigate it is that vitality damage doesn't build up. It's all or nothing each shot.

If I deal 6 vitality damage to an integrity scale thing in 1 attack, then that doesn't mean that my next attack only needs 4 vitality damage to get it down further.

>>28586881

That's my opinion on the matter, and it might help reduce the attrition rate of things. Combined with the whole "reduce the number of dice you roll when trying to hit it with a vitality weapon" and I think we might have a way to bring Integrity and Vitality scale combat close enough together so that you don't have the game ENTIRELY divided between those with mechs and those without them.

>>28586881
>If I deal 6 vitality damage to an integrity scale thing in 1 attack, then that doesn't mean that my next attack only needs 4 vitality damage to get it down further.

The smallest mech(suit) has Integrity 5 and Armor 1/1. That is five successful shots on a bulky target.

New angle for this: vit-dmg vs Int isn't rolled, but taken directly from the dice number. So a 3d6 pistol would only do 2dmg to our mech (1 Armor), and the heaviest mechs will be laughing at everything not Hybrid (which would actually roll their dice). Shooting at big things remains easy, damaging them gets harder.

All this needs multiple levels of consideration. At least making 1Int=5Vit helps the math a lot.

>>28581116
In the original story, the Deep Ones never raped anyone. It was all conscientious.

>>28587440
point, it's depravity. Though the implication is that they're using rape loosely. Spells to warp minds and rituals to convert people into thinking deep ones are sexy beasts or something.

Which by modern standards is still rape. Since the cults all work on mind-warping principles, it's pretty much all universally rape of one sort or another.

>>28587283
No, it's 5 shots to bring it down from Undamaged to Light Damage, but yeah, I see your point.

And yeah, that could actually work very well.

So you're saying that only the heaviest weapons are going to punch through the armor? (needing to deal at least 5d6 to reduce the Integrity by 1)

And armor still reduces as normal? I think I like this idea.

So our 2dmg small arms isn't going to do jack shit to a fully armored and undamaged mech. But once that sucker is reduced to seriously damaged, (eg: down to only 5 Integrity total) then even small arms fire is going to rip and tear into that shit.

Sound good?

>>28587532
So 4 armor maintains highest armor, and it's going to be nearly impossible to take down even with rocket launchers and shit. You NEED specialized weaponry to break through armor that strong. Hybrid damage stuff.

And all the while, you're -still- needing to be dealing damage in chunks to break through that integrity, no damage stacking (which also saves us on keeping track of the Vitality contained inside of each Integrity).

Only small, low armor mechs, are going to be vulnerable to small arms fire, and even then, only when they're dipping near bottom on their total HP.

Sniper rifles deal 6d6 damage from the looks of it in The Void. So they can actually fuck up low armor mechs in large enough numbers.

I think we have a working system guys.

Once softened up, then some of the heavier sorts of small arms will be able to tackle it with their 5d6

Then comes the above average weaponry, with their 4d6, and finally the average guns at 3d6 damage.

Which means that you need very well above average weaponry before you can even fucking TOUCH a mech, and you'll never be using less than average weaponry to harm even the most badly damaged mech.

Everyone thinks this is a good system?

>>28587690
http://wildfire-community.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1835

Also, they recently released some 'unofficial' rules to starship combat in The Void on their forums.

So my question is, do we want to alter mechs to fit into this paradigm? Which seems to eschew Integrity scale combat in it's entirety to instead use fuck tons of armor?

>>28587690
Cool enough for me. I'm the guy who's just waiting for the tagers since I want to be Power Tager Rangers.

Though this solving of damage has cleared up some stuff for them.

>>28587828
As far as I can tell, the only thing that needs to be adjusted for tagers is how many points you spend at character creation on getting them, they should function fine within the Void as I see it.

>>28587690
Actually, with a good shot and Auto values giving you extra damage dice, a group with assault rifles stand a chance of doing damage to the mech-suit by emptying their mags on it.

But the mech-suit will be shooting back, so it is probably more than okay. Even then, I like how hails of heavy fire can still chip them down, EVENTUALLY. Bigger mechs fucking regenerate.

>>28588281
The idea we were bouncing back and forth was that you had to do it in discrete attacks. no bleed over from previous attacks. So even at full auto, they'd not be able to do signifigant amounts of damage.

That said, yeah, you have a better chance at dealing damage as a group that way if you're all good shots.

So they'd have to accumulate a TON of extra dice for each shot they're putting into that mech before they can deal enough damage. And the biggest mechs are STILL going to laugh off all that damage, even without regeneration.

Also. I think I know where we can stick in cosmetic damage.

When a mech takes even 1 point of damage, they've been cosmetically damaged at that point. Any systems that delicate are going to fail (or maybe when they take half their HP in damage, I dunno, I frankly think we should just put Cosmetic Damage and Light Damage into the same category since Cosmetic Damage is PURELY there for the most delicate of systems)

>>28588357
Also, the question becomes.

Do we want to adopt the system of HP that they're using for space ships? EG: absurdly high armor (20 points of armor is the armor value on a light starfighter) and absurdly high damage rolls? (10d6 for the smallest starship weapon)

Frankly, I'm not so sure that'd work well, and we might be better off converting The Void's starship systems to Mech based combat we're devising here.

>>28588357
I can't find any mech system with a SF (Light) in the tables. Even the sensors fail at Moderate.

Only difference I know between Cosmetic and Light is that DCS/Regen doesn't kick in for Cosmetic level damage. Even the mech-suit has DCS 1. So the overall is: Does something break if a mech regens fully?

>>28588388
Let's not lose momentum. Besides, if you're fighting starships in CTech, it's over. Probably the only mod we need is that you need higher damage to chip away at Super-Integrity or whatever.

>>28554325
>The Void
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, I LOVE YOU ANON
I HAVE BONE WAITING FOR ANY NEWS OF THE VOID SINCE I HEAD ABOUT IT AGES AGO.

Cthonic stars got released, but nothing about the void. Thank you!

>>28588589
Gotcha, well we'll figure it out.

Anyway. I need to figure out Mecha Regen rules. We might have to set it that Regen can only regen up to half the damage of the next highest level of damage.

So let's say I'm a 20 Integrity mech. I've been busted down from 80HP to 60 HP. The max I'll be able to regenerate is to 70 HP. If I'm further busted down to 60HP, the highest I'll be able to regen to is 50 without repairs being used.

Would that work?

>>28588629
You're welcome! It's well worth the read! I just remembered it one day while reading through a CTech thread and went "huh, I wonder if they ever released it?" and then it turned out they released it as open source, so here we are.

If you like it, please throw money at them on drivethrurpg. We want to encourage them to keep up the good work right?

>>28588658
Okay, finished reading the spell rules.

I do not think we'll need to alter how spells function at all. We can probably and literally just pull over the spell systems from CTech to use in The Void's crunch.

That was the last major step I think guys (need to look into parapsychics as well though just to be sure). We're ready to start making shit official.

I'll also be on the Wildfire community forums as shadowclasper and proposing the stuff we make in The Void's forum's homebrew section. I'll be coordinating efforts on both ends of things.

We know what we need to do now. Let's do it.

I need
1) Somebody to set up a page on 1d4chan to get our preliminary notes down

2) I need somebody to help me get some templates ready for remaking character professions to fit the character creation rules from The Void (shouldn't be too hard).

3) I need somebody to help me figure out which three skills each of the racial types I've outlined above >>28566696 will fit. If you start as that race you automatically get a point in that skill regardless of anything else. Any adjustments would be appreciated.


So this is it /TG/ it's time to do what we do best.

Let's Get Shit Done.

>>28588743
>I do not think we'll need to alter how spells function at all. We can probably and literally just pull over the spell systems from CTech to use in The Void's crunch.
To be clear, I do not mean that we can leave it be as it is currently. I mean that we'll be adjusting the shit out of the numbers, but the framework of it will remain intact.

>>28588635
I can't find anything that is lost at Light or Cosmetic (though the code EXISTS), so we can keep the recovery as-is in CTech. You can never go beyond Light through DCS/Regen. That shit is actual mass you lose from your "skin".

So Undamaged is the new Cosmetic, and we're done.

>>28588809
Sounds good.

>>28588809
Also, I like SF codes because it pretty much layouts a mech sheet. You just have a table of what fails at each level. Want to pimp your mech? move one of its systems up a code, lower another... minmax that fish-hunter.

You're doing humanity's work, OP.
Thumbs up, and all that.

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I put this together.
>I'm helping!

I assume we'll need new premade adventures too?

>>28589771
I like it.

>>28589771
Ooooh, Yes! Good job.

So should I name/trip fag up over this to help coordinate? or just keep being anonymous? Don't care either way.

Anyway. The goal for the moment is to get a basic system.

>>28589818
Yes. Though I suggest that we do what we're doing here. We keep the basic core of Cthulhutech intact, and then we change out the crunch.

We can do that for pretty much anything in the game.

Sadly, I'm going to draw the line at redoing the mythos. If we want to do that, we can, but I want to keep us as close to the original as possible.

NOW! That said, if we want to say, make -small- alterations to the whole deal? Change it around some? So China is just pushed into ever smaller fronts until it's arcologies are directly under seige but for all intents and purposes china is a massive clusterfuck 3 way warzone between the Migou, Humanity, and the Rapine Storm?

And that we detail how the colonial fleet organized it's strike after finally reestablishing contact with Earth, and that the Hive ship is still on it's way, but severly weakened as it deploys forces back to defend pluto?

I think we can do that.

But the core of the metaplot should remain sound, despite what we feel about it.

The goal is to alter the system to be superior, not to out and out rewrite it from the ground up.

Objections?

>>28589880
>But the core of the metaplot should remain sound, despite what we feel about it.
>Sadly, I'm going to draw the line at redoing the mythos. If we want to do that, we can, but I want to keep us as close to the original as possible.
Agreed. We both know /tg/ and it would utterly, completely rip the project apart. There's other concerns like how much/little this would still be CTech but the previous one is a very real threat.
>Objections?
None.

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>>28589771
And here's a slightly less retarded version.

>>28589916
>>28589880
Thirded

I've been storming without actually reading the rules through, so excuse my disorientation.

So basically there must be:
- Quick Play rules (chargen and combat, fear/madness later)
- >>28566696 (rewiring the chargen trees)
- New Integrity scaling (to transplant mech stats on)
- Cliffnotes setting

Sadly, I'm probably out of this until at least Tuesday, except possibly to acquaint myself with The Void basics.

>>28589916
Agreed. CONTROLLED alterations can be managed. But major metaplot events NEED to happen.

China has to fall to the Rapine Storm.

The 2nd Hive ship needs to launch.

The Colonists need to do something that either seriously delays, or neutralizes the 2nd Hive Ship.

All of those things NEED to happen. We can fiddle them a LITTLE. But otherwise, they're going to happen one way or another, and in the same sequence.

And for the moment, I'm voting that we table discussion on the matter until we have a complete rewrite of the rules to follow The Void's systems, not the framewerk system.

Now.
Here's the work that needs to be done.

>We need to redo the races to fit the new racial architecture in the void. 3 skills to a race.

>We need to redo the professions. Each of them will have a different starting number in each stat (between 1-3 as I recall), a definitive list of skills, and a definitive list of qualities they can buy from at the start.
--->Each class has a distribution of 15 points that are hard set by their class, and an additional 5 points that can be distributed by the player.
--->Players have 30 points to spend on skills.
--->Players choose 2 secondary specialties out of 5 total. These are subclasses, and each adds between 5 and 8 skills to your class' skill list. You have 10 points to spend on each secondary specialization. Soldier might have for example 'criminal past' and 'sailor' or something.
--->You have 5 points to spend on advantage qualities. up to 12 in disadvantages
--->I can't recall. Does CTech have a 'talents' section? If it does, you get 1 talent.

>Free form design for a character with no profession is as follows:
--->20 points in attributes
--->choose homeworld and the 3 skills you get from it. Then spend 50 points total on skills.
--->5 points of advantages, and up to 12 points of disadvantages.
--->choose 1 talent
--->personal wealth 2, sponsored wealth 1.

>>28590104
We've gotten new integrity scaling down we think.
Rewriting the char gen trees is going down now.

Cliffnote setting is an option, and will need to adhere as closely to the original as possible.

Quickplay rules definitely.

>>28590030
Why not change it around to be 'Cthulhu Void Tech'? That's just me though. Also can you get the background transparent rather than blending with the normal baby blue of 4chan?

>>28590117
(continuing)

>We need to figure out the point value for both Tager and Tager:Extreme. They will need to take up a significant portion of anyone's point value from their qualities.

>We need to rewrite pretty much all of the stats on everything. Guns. Mechparts. Armor. Tager abilities. Spells. Everything.
--->For example, for spells we'll have to alter the whole 'minimum stats in each' thing, since stats cap out of 5 in The Void.
>EG: We got real and necessary changes to be made to the crunch of the setting to make things mesh well. Thankfully, the skeleton of the subsystems of Cthulhutech are MOSTLY compatible with the core systems of The Void. All we'll be doing is altering numbers here and there.

>>28590169
Okay.

Attributes in Cthulutech are 1-10

Attributes in The Void are 1-5.

1-2=1
3-4=2
5-6=3
7-8=4
9-10=5
It's not perfect, because 2 is the 'average' in The Void, and 3-4 is not average for CTech, but it'll do to start.

>>28590257
Hey, if anything, it gets MORE deadly.

So I'm assuming skills come from Void, then we need to add particulars from CTech (ArcanoTech stuff)?

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>>28590169
>Why not change it around to be 'Cthulhu Void Tech'?
It looks better the other way, even if it sounds better this way,

>Also can you get the background transparent rather than blending with the normal baby blue of 4chan?
It should be transparent png already.

>>28590347
I guess so!

And nah, I think we can keep Cthulutech's skills as they are. No reason to use others.

>>28590388
Yeah, you're right, it does. Pity. But weird, it's not really, at least it isn't when I click on it. Ah well, can somebody use that to get a 1d4chan page started please? I'm moving through Admechanum next.

I'm also going to need to grab Damnation View, Mortal Remains, and Ancient Enemies.

>>28590431
>Admechanum
I mean Vade Mecum

Also, we're going to need to transfer over the Talents from The Void, or we can replace Talents in the character creation process with Cheats. Your call guys.

>>28590453
>Cheats
Do you mean Qualities?

>>28590598
No, Qualities are covered in both.

In CTech, you get 6 'Cheat Points' that let you start the game with things you normally wouldn't have.

>>28590628
Okay guys.

How do we handle races? Obviously Nazzadi and Human can't just be the same, the skill system of origin isn't going to work (but we might want to leave it in anyway and have 'species' effect things too).

How do we handle race? I think it needs to be toned down a bit myself, 1 ability -maybe- per race, etc. Anyway, thoughts?

>>28590780
Abilities? Void has Nighvision as an Advantage. Probably Humans can choose Common Sense or Wealth 3?

>>28590971
Sounds good. Common Sense might not work though.

So each race gets 1 quality for free. (Also pick ones from cthulutech, we're adjusting prices to match in The Void. The actual qualities and skills should remain the same)

Humans:???
Nazzadi: Nightvision
White Xenomix: Parapsychic? Latent Parapsychic.
Black Xenomix: Something diplomatic?
Ghoul:???

Remember, we're trying to keep the system as intact as possible. All we're changing is the core systems of conflict resolution. That means we're maintaining skills for the most part (which are already broken down into 5 stages I believe), and qualities.

>>28591172
Is Innovative an option? Don't know if Drama Points should be ported, so probably like one extra Fate Point for survival?

Also, time for sleep. Hope we can bounce more ideas later.

>>28590628
>Cheat Points
Please, for the love of the elders, can we rename that to something a bit more flavorful?

>>28591399
Innovation?

Also drama points are replaced as I recall for tension points in The Void. No reason we couldn't do the same and switch it out. What's wrong with Drama points in the old system?

>>28591449
We probably should rename them. Something like "Divergent Fates" or something, the idea is that you're different somehow.

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Quick question: Why are you trying to keep the system as intact as possible?

I get the whole rule conversion and so on, but CTech isn't known for well crafted or balanced rules. If you simply port over the fluff and mechanics to the Void system, the result is likely to turn out mediocre.

The Void is open source, more or less, so you can change what you need to do make things work. Why not rewrite and improve basic mechanics of the Void and CTech to improve them as a combined product, rather than a diluted substitute?

>>28591511
I love CTech /m/ art. So good.

>>28591511
My goal is based on the fact that the Cthulhutech's crunch, while not balanced, is, in it's base form (once you strip away the numbers) very suited for it's fluff.

The goal is to leave it as intact as possible. We change what we NEED to change (the resolution systems) but we leave as much of the 'fluff' intact.

Qualities, at their basic level, are fluff. They have crunch attached to them. Same for skills.

It doesn't matter what a skill or quality is named. Their crunch is seperate from that. And much of the crunch in The Void for their qualities and talents and such is based around the assumption that you are in space for the most part. While in CTech the assumption is that you're planet side.

Further, The Void has NO rules for magic at ALL (except for 'GM says') and mechs are not included, nor are large vehicles yet.

Tagers are not included either, nor any equivalent.

It is easier to do a patch job on Cthulhutech, maintaining the majority of the systems and replacing them with compatible ones from the void, than it is to build it from the Ground Up using purely The Void.

The idea is that we use as much of The Void's mechanics as possible, and that we try to keep it that way.

If we can transfer talents over to CTech? Then let's do it. Otherwise we can replace the talent buy with the 'Cheats' and adjust both how many 'cheat points' you have, and the cost to meet the requirements of the new system more easily.

Also, if we port over EVERYTHING from the Void, then we might as well just admit it's The Void, and just play, you know, The Void.

That's not the point of the project. The point of the project is to FIX Cthulhutech, not to out and out replace it.

>>28591732
That said, you want to do that plan of yours, please, by all means. Do so. It'll probably turn out really cool and awesome. We just sorta want to fix Cthulhutech and leave it as intact as possible while we do it. Ripping out the worst bits (eg: the power balance problems and the horrendous framewerk dice poker system) and replace those bits with The Void while leaving the rest intact.

>>28591827
Though I do ask that you let us keep the Cthulhu Tech Void name for the project, we got first dibs.

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>>28591732
>>28591827
>>28591857
I guess I'm the guy you're replying to. Hopefully. I'm going to frame my response in two parts.

1. To be brutally honest, I much prefer the Void to CthulhuTech. There are a number of reasons, mechanical and fluff both, but it all boils down to me having outgrown my interest in CTech.

CTech was novel and interesting when it first came out, and it more or less introduced me to the whole Lovercraftian universe, but I can't really see it as anything but a bunch of poorly integrated ideas in setting and form. The universe suffers from information clutter and has far too much anime influence when it tries to be gritty and realistic.I like anime. I don't think the inspiration did CTech any good.

While the setting books/expansions introduced interesting elements into the mix, they all had a number of problems, particularly problems involving mechanics. This leads me to point #2.

2. I don't intend to do anything with the system. I find the idea of integrating CTech into the Void engine a pretty exercise. But CTech is riddled with mechanical problems that extensively weigh it down. It always struck me as a system that didn't quite know what it wanted to do, or how it wanted to do it.

I only mentioned revising or rewriting mechanics because I feel that's needed to truly "fix" CTech. With that said, I'm not even sure CTech can be fixed without restarting the whole thing. Maybe what you're trying to do is the right way to go about fixing an outdated system. Maybe it's not. All I wanted to express is that I think major overhauls are needed for a successful conversation.

>>28592276
S'cool. And hey, maybe you're right? But I still think it's worth a shot. For me, I only recently discovered Cthulhutech, it's still fresh and new to me. That's why I want to salvage it as best I can.

>>28592276
Also, if you could give us more examples of what mechanical things weight it down so we can seek to correct them, I'd very much appreciate it.

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>>28592313
>>28592331
>if you could give us more examples of what mechanical things weight it down
Would if I could. It's been ages since I've looked at CthulhuTech rules but I'll list some basics:

Pointbuy is hilariously abusable. Melee combat relies on one stat for offense and defense (unlike ranged combat). Raise dexterity (I think that's the stat, might be agility), and you're set to go. Strength is negligible unless you pump it into superhuman levels. Most damage is contributed via the weapon used.

CTech presents the player with the choice of career paths; this is all well and good, but you can't well match them together without someone being left out. This isn't critical (and makes sense on some level to keep certain types of characters apart), but it certainly could have been done better. The vitality v. integrity is mostly a hack to bring giant robots in line with flesh and blood. Emphasis on hack. I recall the book mentioning that the divide was sort of malleable.

On the upper range of mechs/Engels, lesser giants have no chance of defeating larger opponents. There isn't really a reason for that except that mechanics prevent it. If you look around on google, there was a guy that did test fights between mechs with some amusing results.

And finally, psychic powers are ridiculous if abused. As anything really, but they make magic look like babycakes.

I'm glad there are still people that can enjoy CTech fresh and new. It was certainly exciting when I first explored it. I think I do have a custom point-buy system I was working on in order to create new mechs. I don't recall how coherent it was but I can post it if I find it.

>>28592551
>On the upper range of mechs/Engels, lesser giants have no chance of defeating larger opponents. There isn't really a reason for that except that mechanics prevent it. If you look around on google, there was a guy that did test fights between mechs with some amusing results.
What do you mean mechanics prevents it? As in small mechs can't fight big mechs?


>And finally, psychic powers are ridiculous if abused. As anything really, but they make magic look like babycakes.
I'll check out this one myself.

>I'm glad there are still people that can enjoy CTech fresh and new. It was certainly exciting when I first explored it. I think I do have a custom point-buy system I was working on in order to create new mechs. I don't recall how coherent it was but I can post it if I find it.

please do! My plan was just to readjust the pointage system entirely to be closer in line with the system used by The Void.

>>28591476
>We probably should rename them. Something like "Divergent Fates" or something, the idea is that you're different somehow.
Thanks. I think generally we should aim at creating a more streamlined, flavourful game without ripping out things at random. Bad naming sense is a pet peeve of mine.

>>28592674
Sure.

So do we maintain the old "Cheat" system? Or do we replace it with the Talents from The Void?

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>>28592617
>What do you mean mechanics prevents it? As in small mechs can't fight big mechs?
In most cases, they are mechanically unable to penetrate armor. And if they somehow make it past armor, they do little to no damage. And if they're fighting an Engel with regen...well, I think you know where I'm going.

And here's what I promised, all the way from 2011: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1UM26onSfqAcnh5cFJYUk9DNW8/edit?usp=sharing

>>28592726
Cool, will definitely look through it.

Can you tell us how the AP system works or where to find it in the core book? I've been looking for ages and I can't find it for the life of me.

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>>28592767
If I recall correctly, you roll to hit. Opponent rolls to defend. If you hit, you roll damage+modifiers. Opponent rolls armor. So if you do 1d10 damage, and the opponent is rolling 3d10 armor, they have a very good chance of negating any damage inflicted.

That is to say, any damage above armor absorb is actually inflicted on the enemy.

>>28592839
Oh wait, I think I recall what you're asking. AP was a completely arbitrary measure (I ran the calculations) that CTech used in order to use mechs for a war game, instead of a standard campaign.

Each mech had an AP cost to balance out teams of mechs. This didn't work out at all in practice.

>>28592916
Oh okay. Gotcha. I was curious what was going on there. If it doesn't matter then we don't need to take it into calculation pretty much.

>>28592551
>And finally, psychic powers are ridiculous if abused. As anything really, but they make magic look like babycakes.
Seems like this one can easily be fixed just by radically adjusting how much orgone they cost. Make it so that Orgone costs on Psy powers are very high, but offset by not needing vast rituals to preform. While Magic is lower cost, but more time intensive.

As I said before, almost every problem with Cthulhutech comes down to numbers not being adjusted right.

For example, playing certain classes with huge amounts of power should leave you with VERY little customibility, especially things like tagers and parapsychics and engle pilots. For them, give them some forced disadvantages, and all 5 of their starting quality advantage points are used up by their powers (or even force them to take disadvantages before buying it. have those specializations cost 6 or 7 points total, demanding that they be bought right out of the gate and that disadvantages be taken with them).

It'll greatly reduce their ability to be abused and make people REALLY consider buying them.

Also Engle Regen can be handled by reducing how powerful it is.

Finally, we already adjusted integrity level combat enormously to help lower the differences in combat. For one, the ratio isn't 1 integrity = 50 vitality, it's 1 integrity = 5 vitality. On top of that, vitality scale weaponry deals damage on par with how many dice are being rolled, rather than on the combined totals of the dice (so you deal a flat 3 damage rather than 3d6 on average). Ontop of all of that, you have to deal damage enough to actually reach that 5 point threshold with a single attack before you can overwhelm an integrity point. No stacking damage from different attacks.

So if I hit four times for 3 damage each, then I'm still doing no damage at all, even though I technically dealt 2 and 2/5ths integrity worth of vitality damage, none of those attacks were strong enough.

>>28593247

Finally, we got rid of cosmetic level damage, and set up the damage system to work like the normal HP system, with damage reduction happening more and more.

So let's say I got a mech with 20 integrity. That means he's got a total of 80 hp.

>Undamaged (80/80 HP): 1 Int = 5 Vit.
>Light Damage (60/80 HP): all the normal effects of light damage. And 1 Int = 4 Vit.
>Medium Damage (40/80 HP): All the normal effects of medium damage, and 1 Int = 3 Vit.
>Serious Damage (20/80 HP): All the normal effects of serious damage, and 1 Int = 2 Vit.
>Critical Damage (0/80 HP): All the normal effects of critical damage.

So you see? The system is actually brought back together in a very sensible way that means that mechs have a much easier time fighting each other, and that combined small arms fire has a CHANCE of killing the smaller mechs, or even fucking over the larger mechs if they can be brought down to size. But that larger mechs are STILL (what with their armor values) be nearly impossible to kill without heavy support.

>>28593247
Also, just looking at the powers? Some of these orgone costs make sense. If you had them applied for ROUNDS not entire minutes. In a combat situation they should work for "rounds" of combat, thus forcing players to maintain them for longer and longer periods, quickly draining them.

bumping for the night. See you guys in the morning.

Any advice or suggestions on things that need to change in Cthulhutech to make it more streamlined and fun would be appreciated. Try to stick to crunch, not fluff. Suggestions on where and how to adjust the costs of things, especially in bringing Parapsychic powers and tagers into line power wise, would be much appreciated.

>>28593787
>tagers
Nightmare.
Utter.
Fucking.
Nightmare.

Tagers only jive well with tagers. Anything else they either become paste or steal the show. It's like making a party consisting of several WoD Hunters and a Mage.

Speaking of which: Tager Quest is on.
>>28594700

Poke for awesomeness.

>>28593829
Do you think adjusting their power level would help things? Reduce the numbers on their abilities and such?

>>28593829
Here's what I suggest:

+ Tagers recieve no benefits when unshifted.
+ All tagers gain Insistant Symbiont and Exaggerated Sybiont (Ancient Enemies).
+ Tagers Orgone levels are halved. If their Orgone drops below 0, they take damage instead of losing Orgone.
+ Tagers start Cracked, and their Awareness and Demeanor is reduced by their current Madness Level (1).
+ The monthly madness test increases in difficulty by 1 for each time the Tager shifted fully during that month.
+ Tagers have three forms: (1) Non-shifted (no benefits). (2) Partially shifted (first set of benefits), must pass [difficulty] test to stay partially shifted, and risk shifting back to human or becoming (3) Fully Shifted (full benefits).
+ Shifting from one state to another counts as an involved action.
+ Shifting back to human is a painful process that leaves the PC Battered (Partial) or Hurt (Full) depending on how far they shifted during the encounter.

>>28597069
I dunno anon. They are great as a concept etc but Tagers should be separate game. FFFfffuuuuuuuu-
This class makes me rage almost as much as Paizo's treatment of monks, if for a different reason. It's less of a problem once you you go HUEG ROWBOAT level.

File: 1385918212313.pdf-(177 KB, PDF, CthulhuTech House Rules.pdf)

177 KB PDF

Here are my Cthulhutech tech house rules, OP. You might find something useful here for your conversion.

>>28597611
>+ Tagers Orgone levels are halved. If their Orgone drops below 0, they take damage instead of losing Orgone.

Tagers already have half their orgone, and extreme tagers have no orgone at all from what I read.

>+ Tagers start Cracked, and their Awareness and Demeanor is reduced by their current Madness Level (1).
>+ The monthly madness test increases in difficulty by 1 for each time the Tager shifted fully during that month.
That right there might be too much. Maybe not the madness one, but the difficulty increasing bit might be too much, simply because we're using far fewer dice, and not a cumalitive system, but a dice pool system.

>+ Shifting from one state to another counts as an involved action.
This I can get behind.

>+ Shifting back to human is a painful process that leaves the PC Battered (Partial) or Hurt (Full) depending on how far they shifted during the encounter.
I'd give them a slow regen while fully human then just to avoid this hampering game play too much.

>>28597630
Yeah, at integrity scale it's less of an issue, but the problem THEN is that they're too weak.

>>28597757
Thanks, I'll take a look through them.

>>28597757
The orgone cost one wouldn't work, since in the rules right now, Tagers only have half their normal Orgone level, and extreme tagers have 0 orgone at all, all of it is used up by the symbiote.

(that's two people who didn't know that was in the rules already... I'm beginning to wonder if that's part of the problem. You basically can't be both a caster and a tager at the same time...)

>>28599029
>You basically can't be both a caster and a tager at the same time...
So Tager quest was pretty educational after all.

>>28599029
I knew that core rule about Orgone cost, but I didn't agree with it...and I use Orgone for a variety of purposes as a magic pool. Limit weapons cost an orgone point to invoke in my game. I guess I didn't write that part down.

>>28599079
hmm? I just read the book, I forget where they mentioned it, but I think in the drawbacks of being a tager. You got 0 orgone to work with if you go extreme tager, and only 50% of your orgone if a normal tager.

So unfortunately, you can't use 'orgone costs' as a method for using Tager abilities.

>>28599131
Aaaah, that makes more sense. I'll see about including it in the revision somehow.

>>28599131
Just something to consider. I also used Orgone as something that could be drained (life force) by nasty monsters. That way it's not just something that magicians have to worry about. It's kind of a useless attribute if no-one's a spell caster in the party with the standard rules.

>>28599195
hmmm... might work... they don't have rules for fire vampires in the series yet right?

>>28599145
Actually, you can - the Shadow, Mirage, and Specter abilities use orgone at the rate of 1 per (activated use time) of special ability - but those are things like Phasing, Invisibility, or Illusion.

Their ranged weapons are used for combat the same way a gun is, and most energy weapons can have upwards of 20 shots contained within them. If you burn one orgone for 20 shots you don't appreciably effect any tager except for the exceptional ones. Limit weapons can only be used once per 24 hours in any case.

>>28600076
Really? Then how does that work with the rules of "tager-extreme use up 100% of their orgone" in the rules for draw backs?

But I do like the idea of 1 orgone = 20 shots.

And do we want to apply that to all of their abilities? Perhaps tagers, regardless of whether you got just the 1st quality or both of them, only soak up 1/2 your orgone?

>>28600216
That seems best.
People with zero orgone walking around just seems odd.

>>28600415
Yep. The option for them to be casters will still be around, but being an EFFECTIVE caster while also being a tager will be next to impossible.

I'm thinking: 1/2 orgone (all times) to keep the symbiote alive.

1 Orgone to activate your transformation (none to deactivate it, once activated you can shift between full or half tager at will, but if you fall back to 100% human, you're done).

Ranged attacks are 1 orgone per 20 shots.

Most abilities will need to be triggered by an expenditure of orgone.

Costs in orgone are doubled for any symbiote that requires 'tager - extreme"

sounds good?

>>28600216
None of those are exceptional Tagers.

The exceptional tagers are the Vampire, the Nightmare, and the (also rare) Efreet. All the others are standard issue except the widow, which is a rare, but otherwise normal tager.

It is worth noting that tagers can use their orgone in rituals, like sorcerers can, so a group of standard tagers working together can actually manage a fair ritual power.

>>28600415
The symbiont uses their orgone to sustain itself - they don't have zero orgone, they have zero orgone available for use in magic. There is a significant difference.

>>28600708
Are you going to limit dhohanoids the same way? Because if not, the tagers are dead. they literally cannot survive an all out assualt of dhohanoids - they are already outnumbered.

>>28600897
Obviously. After all, there's rules for playing Dhohanoids as well. Might include special rules for Dhohanoids NOT constrained by these rules, but they would be the exception, not the rule, after all, this is cthulhu mythos, it's not cthulhu mythos unless there's SOME sort of overwhelming odds.

That said, yes. Dhohanoids will be applied the same way.

>>28600842
>>28600860
gotcha. So are you saying that they could use this orgone not normally available for the purposes of shooting and using their abilities?

>>28600708
Also, Tagers by the rules unless they matamorph can´t change parts of his body, For example a Vampire can´t change his hand into a claw but a BloodGod can do that, That is like one of the main difference with a Dhonoid and a Tager.

>>28601258
As I recall, Tagers can do full transformation, but Dhonoids can't, and Dhonoids can do partial transformations?

>>28600967
You could work it that way, yes, especially if you use the 'all tagers lose half their orgone, the other half powers weapons' idea. Part of the drawback of having an exceptional tager, in addition to using two assets,was not being able to use magic at all. An ordinary (hah) tager could make a passable novice or adept sorcerer.

>>28601411
Tagers can only do partial if they are Matamorphed (Or advanced) Tagers (they kinda work like dhonoids ), If not, they can only do full transformation .
Dhonoids can change part of their body at will, and can do full transformation but their stats don`t change so they don´t really need to change to use their powers.

>>28601436
Okay.

So I become a Tager.

Half of my orgone goes into 'Feeding the Symbiote"
I use this to power my Tager abilities. If I ever use up 100% of it, my Symbiote is going to go dormant, I lose my powers, go normal human, my symbiote sleeps, and I lose ALL benefits. Even whatever ones we let Tager's keep while they're human (many of which we'll be removing, probably only leaving them with low power regeneration).

You can channel your remaining orgone into FEEDING the symbiote to wake it up, but that requires meditation and basically 'spoon feeding' your orgone to the Symbiote inside of you to recharge your 'symbiote orgone'

Enhanced Tagers lose the ability to do this.

Sound good? Would this help balance them out a little bit? Make them less show stopping? especially when we go in and begin editing numbers to bring them closer in line with the rest of vitality scale?

>>28601411
No - dhohanoids can partial or fully transform at will. They also can be genetically and magically detected as dhohanoids. They literally are alien mosnters from beyond, with memories of having been human at one time. They are also weaker than msot tagers, with two exceptions. they have a hard time hiding their true nature as well, having nervous ticks, tells, and behavior that identifies them as dhohanoid for the observant and the trained.

Tagers are human, unless they're not, but they don't have partial forms - they're either all monster, or all human. While there are behavioral changes, most of them aren't terribly noticeable since most match symptoms of Aeon War Syndrome. Most importantly they cannot be detected as tagers - genetically and magically, they are human in their human form. In human form, they are trained to detect dhohanoids, they don't have to use their scan ability to do so. This is really an important edge agaisnt dhohanoids; most arcologies have genetic sensory systems in the entrances and exists, as do major military bases and such. It forces dhohanoids to sneak around, where tagers can walk past.

On the other hand, dhoanhoids breed true (with other dhohanoids only) and the ritual is perfect - one ritual, one dhohanoid, no failure except through accidental parapsychic or outsider taint. The ritual also can be used 12 days out of every 28, so a well stocked and funded hive can make 12 dhohanoids a month easily. Tagers don't even always survive their ritual. That means tagers are always outnumbered.

>>28601566
The average dhohanoid is going to get eaten by the average tager. This is fact.

Dhohanoids are meant to outnumber tagers 3-5 to one. If you cut the tager powers by forcing them to spend orgone to use their power, to the point that they have to run away or become a squishy human, the dhohanoids will also have to be powered down, or you'll have to increase their power to make an individual dhoahnoid a threat to an individual tager (a zabuth, for instance, qualifies).

Remember, you're dealing with player logic - a player won't necessarily conserve his orgone - he'll try and take as many enemies as he can with him, and fuck the consequences. IOf he's read the books at all, he'll be expecting to take on a half dozen dhohanoids and walk away hurting, but alive. The scenario you set up for him puts him on a time limit, and makes it exceedingly easy for a group of dhohanoids to kill him with a well timed set of ambushes, especially in a city where he can't be a tager all the time.

>>28601801
Well, maybe we can make the orgone something like will power? as in eveyrone can use it

>>28601801
>Dhohanoids are meant to outnumber tagers 3-5 to one. If you cut the tager powers by forcing them to spend orgone to use their power, to the point that they have to run away or become a squishy human, the dhohanoids will also have to be powered down, or you'll have to increase their power to make an individual dhoahnoid a threat to an individual tager (a zabuth, for instance, qualifies).
The plan is to power down the Dhoahnoids too.

But yeah, I see your point. Perhaps Dhoahnoids also have higher cost on their time limit abilities?

Or we just don't limit the time, you just can't use the abilities once you run out of orgone? And if you shift out, you can't shift back in?

You're right that we need to do this right.

We need to lower the power of both Tagers and Dhohanoids.

But this leads to a problem.... if Tagers are no longer show stoppers. Then Dhohanoids are going to be weaker than normal humans?

This might be an insurmountable problem.

>>28601891
so the goal is... make Tagers able to win in a 1v1 fight with their ancient enemies. But also make it so 1v1, their ancient enemies can USUALLY kick the ass of a human?

>>28601801
Now, what you are doing, if you want to make tagers work on a full vitality scale, you basically have done a good job, but the problem then becomes the tager must be able to work with a group of other ordinary folk - parapsychics, sorcerers, soldiers.

A tager facing off against a fully armed and armored NEG sodlier is actually going to get his ass handed to him outside of melee combat. His two advantages are unlimited ammo and regeneration. In melee combat a tager is brutal, but he's normally facing multiple opponents; cuttign some of the stat bonuses might also reduce their show-stopping might. For most cases a limit weapon is actually a bad idea - they're incredibly indiscriminate, and giving the character free use of them is actually going to get a lot of innocents killed.

These are just my basic observations and opinions.

>>28602085
So basically, we don't want to cut off his unlimited ammo?

What if we make his ammo effectively unlimited? 40 shots per orgone rather than 20?

>>28602166
If it's effectively unlimited, we might as well call it unlimited.

>>28601891
Most dhohanoids don't have timed abilities. Tagers use those to infiltrate, as a general rule; dhohanoids actually have specific dhohanoid species for that purpose instead.

The real problem is that each type of tager is basically a soldier of a specific training: Whispers are intel and eye-in-the-sky as well as coordinators. Phantoms are general purpose soldiers, Echos are SEALs, Spectres are b&e and info retrieval, Shadows are assassins and infiltration, Widows are rangers and bag-and-tag, Mirage run interference and evac. The exceptional tagers are tank (Nightmare), gunship (Vampire), and demolitions (Efreet).

Take the NEG soltiers and power armor(not mecha) jockeys, and compare them to the tagers in the way I've listed. that may give you a better ideal to shoot for.

>>28602258
Hmmm... I'll look into it.

So basically, we want it so that a Tager is as powerful as an NEG power armor jockey? But with a close combat focus, not a ranged one? And that should scale to power level so that Dohonid's numbers don't overwhelm?

What's special about Tagers? AS far as I see, they are Vitality level mechs.

>>28603531
That is how i would manage them - make them close combat specialists with some ranged utility, while power armor has better and more effective range and less hand-to-hand capability.

>>28603755
Sounds like a plan

As someone mentioned, why not make Tagers in line with powered armor? Noids should be evenly matched with, if a tad weaker than, Tagers. I don't really like the idea of Noids being much weaker than Tagers.

>>28605058
The idea is that Noids are weaker 1v1, and I like that, the problem is that they just. keep. coming.

You can kill 10 noids for every tager that falls... but there's always noid number 11 ready to go.

It's a hopeless, endless, fight. All the more so because of how powerful you are. Able to slay any individual noid with your outsider granted strength, but always knowing that more of them are coming.

>>28605151
So Tagers should have (low) Integrity? They already have mech systems that never fail and regen.

>>28605058
Noids Should be weaker, they are more. for exeption of the Elite Noids like the Zabuth or the Unique Noids that should be stronger.

>>28605421
does power armor give you integrity?

>>28605586
Reading the cult thing...

The only crazy cultist organization isn't Muslim, it's Christian from what I can tell. The Blood Brigade was founded by a televangelist...

I think that once again, people have been judging material without actually reading it.

>>28605586
The tactical mech does have Integrity. The armor table is small (5 items) and doesn't include exoskeletons or the like.

>>28605748
Will need to look into it and see if we can make it work. I'm not sure full blown integrity scale is a good idea, but it might be... especially since integrity has been scaled down in this version.

>>28605783
If Dhons can get through by stacking bonuses to their attack or damage roll, it may be worth it. We'd need a chump and heavy Dhon's stats to compare.

Otherwise... automatic cover dice?

>>28606131
ehn...

can somebody post up some example stats for a tager, exceptional tager, Dhon chump and heavy dhon's stats?

I'd really like a blog or a changelog for this.

I'm seriously interested in a Cthulutech game with actually functional, non broken rules.

>>28606261
Okay I checked The Ancient Enemies book and I noticed that the Noids Have 3 Tiers, Average, Specialized and Elite. For an example of an Average Noid I copied the Deberith

Size: Medium (6 to 7 ft. tall)
Attribute Modifications:
Agility +2
Strength +2
Tenacity +2
Weapons:
Bite (+1) – The toothy snout of a Derebith has a wicked bite.
Claws (0) – Sharp claws tip the Dhohanoids fingers.
Armor: 1/1
Regeneration: 1 Point
Fear Factor: 16
Senses: Acute Smell & Taste, Broadband Audio, Nightvision
Movement & Speed: Jumping (Double)

Comparing with a Tager I can notice that they are much Weaker I am coping the Phantom for that.

Size: Medium (6 to 7 ft. tall)
Attribute Modifications:
Agility +1/+3
Perception -/+2
Strength +1/+3
Tenacity +1/+3
Weapons:
Arcane Blast – Range 30/75/200, Damage +2, Shots 3, Infinite
Rounds
Blades (+2) – These blades often extend from the forearms of
the Tager.
Howl (+0) – Range of 20 ft. Target must succeed at a Challenging
Strength Feat Test or be knocked to the ground.
Limit Weapon:
Tentacle Sheathe (+3) – A mass of tentacles bursts out of the
Phantom’s chest, covering a 30 ft. cone in front of him. Everything
caught within the tentacles is attacked, at no Multiple
Action Penalty. One of the targets, randomly selected, must
also succeed at a Challenging Strength Test or the symbiont
will drag him back and eat him. This takes one full turn and
results in the death of the victim. This uses all Actions and can
be the Tager’s only Action that turn.
Armor: 2/2
Regeneration: 1/3
Fear Factor: 12
Senses: Nightvision, Scan
Movement & Speed: Climbing (Double), Jumping (Double),
Land (Normal)

>>28606704
yikes, that's some disparity.

Okay, how does that compare to a solider in armor and kitted out to kick ass (not power armor)

The question to ask is why Noids are weaker. In the source material, Guyver, monsters were challenging early on, especially in pairs. Generals snd the like were far tougher, but matched 1v1 when they were finally encountered. So how about the tier system mentioned above? There should be Noids stronger than typical Tagers.

>>28606704
Are we going with Orgone to activate Limit Weapons?

>>28606821
A soldier without an armor would be a dead soldier unless he was in a team, and playing it like it was a SWAT team. The one in power Armor would pretty much win unless the Phantom used his limit Weapon and ate the Armor Whole.

>>28606867
Noids are weaker because they are using an imperfect copy of the original set of spells that lead to the Tager's. The Tagers found the originals LATER ON, but the first set ever found were cthulu's variation on the original spells. Tager symbiotes are aligned with the Forgotten Ones.

>>28606889
We need to figure some shit out now.

Do we want to put Tagers on a time limit and leave their stats as they are? Their abilities and ammo using up orgone? And when they run out, their symbiote goes dormant? or would that put them at too much of a disadvantage against the Noids (who are so weak comparitively I just can't see giving them a time limit since we CAN'T down on their stats more than they've already been downed on)

>>28606867
Noids are weak because they are more, but there are stronger Noids, This are the stats of a Grokell, an Elite Flying Noid
Size: Medium (8 to 9 ft. long)
Attribute Modifications:
Agility +4
Perception +4
Strength +4
Weapons:
Acidic Spit – Range 10/25/60, Damage +4, Shots 1, Infinite Rounds.
Maw (+3) – The gigantic fanged maw of the Grokell is its primary form
of attack.
Screech (Fear) – As described in Special Abilities. (The screech of a Grokell forces those within 50 feet to make a Fear Test
against a Challenging Degree. This is beyond the Fear Test required for
simply being in the creature’s presence.)
Talons (+2) – Thick, black talons tip a Grokell’s feet.
Armor: 2/2
Regeneration: 3 Points
Fear Factor: 16
Senses: Acute Hearing, Broadband Audio, Nightvision, Sonar, Thermal
Movement & Speed: Flying (Triple)
This one haves a fighting chance against the Phantom.

>>28607009
yeah, look at that. He could eat a Tager for breakfast. We'd need to knock him down a couple of notches too.

This is going to take delicate balance work to fix up :S

>>28607164
Just a thought.

Anyone think this might be easier if we do something along the lines of turn Tagers and Noids into light armor versions of power armor?

Another option is that we base ALMOST EVERYTHING of theirs on equipment regular guys can get, and all they get are some lesser stat boosts and the regeneration? Maybe some mobility boosting stuff like the wall crawling.

>>28606985
I like resource management. It gives players something to plan around. Time and Orgone are both resources that depend on narrative time.
How quickly does Orgone (or Health) regenerate? Would making Orgone the deciding factor mean players have to work together and plan more, or less? I think more.

When Limit weapons are a one-shot thing, and players know the confrontation they're in might get even worse, they'll want to keep from using it. With Orgone, they'll hesitate, but since they might get more than one shot, they'll likely keep a backup shot, but will be more likely to use it on grunts. Instead they'll have to weigh other factors, like "will I have to shift again?" "If I have to shift again, will I have enough to Limit Weapon if I need it?" "How important is it in this situation that I keep a reserve to Limit Weapon with?" Is, I think, a much richer set of questions than "Will I need to be able to do this again in the next 24 hours?"

>Henderson farrua
Even Old Man Henderson blesses my captcha with his agreement from beyond the grave.

>>28607164
Consider that it'd be a TEAM of Tagers taking him on, though.

>>28607312
Point, but consider he's leading a group of noids himself. I was talking in 1v1.

And ideally, we're making this so people can play a Tager WITH non Tagers without stealing the show.

>>28607225

I don't know, I mean the problems I've heard with Tagers is that they pretty much outclass other player characters as it is, if we make them mini-intregrity scale doesn't that just make them even more distant?

>>28607388
Yeah, which is why I think we stick them as is, but we make them more resource focused for the Tagers, make it so that players are using up their awesome at the appropriate times, working together on it, keeping the beast inside and hidden as best they can, working as normals, until their moment comes about and they go full monster and rip and tear.

>>28607312
Also Consider that there will be lower leveled Dhonoids with those, Probably atleast 5 Average, depending on the operation an specialized or 2. Stats of another strong Noid
Jjia-sin-dumash
Size: Medium (9 to 11 ft. across)
Attribute Modifications:
Agility +3
Intellect +2
Perception +2
Presence +2
Strength +2
Tenacity +3
Weapons:
Tentacles (+2) – A Jjia-sin-dumash can attack with any of its tentacles, in
any direction. They can be used to entangle.
Tentacle Flurry (+4) – The Dhohanoid lets loose in a maddening flurry of
tentacles swipes. This attack uses two Actions.
Armor: 2/2
Regeneration: 3 Points
Fear Factor: 16
Senses: Acute Touch, Broadband Audio, Nightvision, Sonar, Thermal,
X-ray
Movement & Speed: Climbing (Triple – can scale sheer surfaces)

Special Power
If a Jjia-sin-dumash does at least one point of damage with its tentacle attack, the tip of said tentacle will break off and worm its way into a victim’s body. Within a minute, the victim will be under the Dhohanoid’s control. A victim can resist a Jjia-sin-dumash’s commands if he can succeed at a Hard Tenacity Feat Test – however, if he fails he must obey all commands for the next hour (including self-harm or suicide). The Dhohanoid can control up to six victims at the same time. The controlling piece of the Jjia-sin-dumash will die off after 24 hours – after which time they may inject again. The controlling piece may not be removed surgically and such efforts will kill the host.

So it can easily have a fire team of humans controlled by him

>>28607452
we focus them on combat. Ranged attacks are 20 shots per orgone used.

Going tager costs a point of orgone.

Limit Weapons cost what? 5 orgone? What would the average amount of orgone a player character would have? (we might need to readjust how orgone is calculated, after all, the most points a player will be getting is 5 in a stat, which will require us adjusting how orgone is calculated entirely).

>>28607484
>combat
I meant close combat.

Ranged attacks should get 10-20 shots per orgone used.

>>28607356
Then we should really be looking at how easily non-tagers can work with tagers, and how non-tagers stack up against these enemies, too.

I'm all for having enemies more powerful than individual players, so long as all the PCs have a role to play. If a Tager could take this guy in a 1 on 1 fight, then the other PCs are relegated to the sidelines - taking on the fodder.

>>28607570
point. So how do we fix that?

>>28607484
Keeping track of shots fired, and converting Orgone to shots seems like a lot of hassle for a PC that is supposedly a close-quarters fighter. If ranged shots were really something worth keeping track of, they should be more expensive - something like 5 or 6 shots/Orgone, so players can keep track of it with a single die. Instead, I would have ranged attacks be weak, and not worry about the Orgone.

How much Orgone will a PC have, generally? Will (should) that amount change with the conversion?

>>28607484
Orgone is calculated as 5+(inteligence+Tenacity)/2, I see that the maximum is 5 so I am guessing we just take off the average and we have more or less the same Orgone.

>>28607570
not any of the people you were replying to but:
Why don't you put Tagers, Parapsychics and battle-armour on another scale than regular human characters? have mech and engle pilots on one scale, these guys on another and soldiers, investigators, sorcerers and techs on another. It's the sort of thing that happens in normal Ctech except the balancing isn't written in.

yep, looks like it.

>>28607789
The over all goal is to make it so that ALL of these can interact on some meaningful level.

We've already managed to do it with Integrity scale conflict (see >>28593292 )
On that scale, it's actually possible for folks with normal weapons to wear down integrity scale foes. Smaller mechs are vulnerable to concentrated fire by soldiers, larger mechs still need to be softened up first.

>>28607780
Okay.

6 Shots = 1 Orgone
Transforming into Tager mode = 2 Orgone
Limit Weapon = 3 Orgone

Look good? or do we need to change it up some?

>>28607911
I don't think that transforming should cost Orgone.
By the way , the average Tager would have less than 5 orgone.

>>28607959
True. So no cost for transforming.

What abilities do Tagers have universally that should cost orgone? besides ranged attacks that is?

Also the idea we had is that the 'half' of the orgone they soak up is used by the symbiote to power these abilities. When it's used up, their symbiote goes "dormant" and they lose their transformation. They have to find a quiet place to meditate and hand feed their symbiote their orgone as it were, jump starting them into wakefulness.

So you use up your power slowly, get away, then dip into your extra reserves of orgone to reawaken your tager, and go at it again.

>>28608121
Well, most non Exceptional Tagers have abilities that use Orgone, Then, The Mirage, The Spectre and The Shadow, have abilities that use Orgone, there almost no Tagers that use orgone in RAW. Still I don't think any other ability needs to use Orgone.
As we said before, Exceptional Tagers things should cost double, but then, the limit weapon for excepcionals would cost 6, making them imposible to use... it is quite hard.

>>28608353
Not if they're drawing from their symbiote 'used' orgone pool?

>>28608504
Well lets see, Te average Tager would need 4 of Whatever is tenacity in the Void and lets say he has better than average inteligence 3.
4+3+5 is 12, Making half of it 6. So lets say a Nightmare uses it's limit weapon, making it use 6, so in the end, the dude gets no other chance at using his limit weapon. unless he gets from the used orgone pool, so anyway, using his limit weapon is a death wish as he transform back to a human in the middle of battle..

>>28608121
>>28607911
I would instead argue for 0 cost ranged attacks, 1 Orgone to transform, and 1 to use Limit weapons.

>>28608654
2 for limit weapons maybe?

>>28608646
true. So what if limit weapon were 2 and nightmare was 4? or 3 and 5?

>>28608654
I can agree with this one, An excepcional would have to use 2 to transform and to use his Limit weapon, in the end it cost a lot, but it isn't crippling.

Hey, do we have a 1d4chan page, blog or IRC channel?

>>28609151
Nope. We really need a 1d4chan page though.

>>28609172

Somebody tell me how and I'll do it.

>>28609402
I think you make an account in 1d4 chan and well, make the page.

>>28609753

Okay, folks, I've managed to build a page on 1d4chan for this little project. I've got to admit, it's pretty crap. I just found this wonderful thread (OP, you very well may be a genius for coming up with this) and I've tried to copy some of the major rules we've determined onto the page. But it's all very rough and I'm not certain what's still relevant and what's been replaced, so I insist someone who knows what the fuck they're doing go to the page and start putting down rules!

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Void_Tech

Thanks to >>28590388 for the page image!

I lost any interest I had in this when I read that Neptune has "underground" colonies. Yeah, underground colonies on a gas giant....

I love the Lovecraftian/Great Old One genre and have run cthuluesque games in a variety of settings, but you boobs cannot even get the basic science right.

Too bad. It looked good until the Gross Conceptual Error occurred.

>>28610068
http://www.edu.pe.ca/southernkings/neptune.htm

I'm not sure if that's 100% accurate... but gysers suggests that there's a ground.

>>28610068

...Thank you for your great contributions to this effort.

>>28610067
Looks good!

Though I made some small changes to the tager area, also added a project goals section and a section for magic users.

Everyone editing this, do your suggestions in the discussions page, and make damn sure to do MINOR edits unless adding sweeping changes. Otherwise the wikifags will get angry at us.

>>28610067
Thanks!
Two things:
I thought we agreed on >>28590030
And I think >>28608654 could go in the Tager section.

>>28610386
adjust it for 2 for limit weapon and it works.

And I thought so too... but somebody is going to be ticked off if we just go and make a new page For Cthulhutech Void >>; if somebody wants to do it, be my guest. We also need to get categories and get ourselves linked to another page so we're not orphaned.

>>28610591
CTech page and the Homebrew list page would be good.

>>28610591
As I said before, Tagers have very little Orgone, as we made exceptional tagers have orgone but having their abilities to cost double, it would mean the main problem with that is that Exceptional guys should have to use 4 points of orgone to use their limit weapon, remembering that they had to transform before so they used 2 first, so with that, they used their whole juice box and transformed back. I think that 1 for transforming and 1 for limit weapons is good.

>>28610703
Yes, but then regular guys can spam is 4 or 5 goddamn times....

>>28610678
Sounds good. Are we going to keep on the Cthulhu Void Tech name or switch to Cthulhutech Void?

>>28610781
>Yes, but then regular guys can spam is 4 or 5 goddamn times...
And then not be able to shift back when they need to, leaving them damaged, frail, and at the mercy of whatever they failed to kill before.

>>28611213
True, having it so that they're damaged when shifting out would severely hamper that, even if they spammed their limit weapon.

>>28610386

Mostly it's a placeholder. You guys decide you want the old logo/name, that's your call, I was just building it based on the most up-to-date info I could acquire from the thread.

>>28611406
We might end up making a new page, but we should decide right now.

So what do you guys say?

>>28611457
There are two explicit votes for Cthulhu Tech Void.

>>28611687
I was hoping for a concrete third vote, but sure. Somebody copy-paste the current page over, and replace the image, once that's done I'll put in the links to the main thing.

I'd do it myself, but I've been trying to remain low on the radar after a spat of updates that should have been 'minor' and I didn't make such.

>>28611687
I like Cthulhu VoidTech. It sounds cooler.

>>28611762
Cthulhu Tech Void
or
Cthulhu Tech: Void

>>28611870
I think so too, but the logo doesn't look as neat. Compare >>28590030 to >>28590388


>>28611930

Maybe we should wait for the thread to pick up before making any decisions?

>>28611930
Cthulhutech Void,

but also: >>28611984
Isn't it just a matter of a little photoshopping to make the second one neater? Or something? What if we switch out the black and white for the VOID and the Tech? So that they can overlap more nicely?

And the thread is nearing sage area. "Thread Picking Up" is kinda not going to happen.

Speaking of which, if the thread dies when I go to sleep tonight (in about 2 hours) can somebody repost it, putting the image in the first post, and then immediately upload The Void into the second post? I'd very much appreciate it.

We want to keep this thing rolling.

>>28611930
Also I agree on that we wait on making the new page alright? The wikifags would really fucking hate us if we do a back and forth shenanigans and might delete the whole thing.

>>28612134
The top of VOID and the bottom of TECH mesh together, like teeth, making it more appealing. The top of the "d" also fills a covenient gap, and the i underlaps very nicely.

The other way around, the flat bottom of VOID and the flat top of TECH might be interesting and visually appealing, but with CTHULHU looming above, it's a daunting prospect.

VOID TECH on it's own might work, if VOID weren't contrastingly tall, compared to TECH. As is, it would look ungainly and unbalanced.

>>28612283
Well can you try it and see if you can make it work? If you can't, (I'm assuming you're the anon who did the image), then I perfectly understand and we'll switch over to the Cthulutech: Void

>>28612308
If it is possible to make it look good, it's beyond my meager abilities. I'm not even an arts major, though, so if people think it's worth waiting a few hours for, I'm sure somebody involved could do a better job.

>>28612490
Alrighty. Well maybe somebody will come up and take up the project? I can also ask on the Wildfire forums when we get there, because honestly, having something that SOUNDS nice is much better.

Also Cthulhu Voidtech might be a better way to put it. Anyway.

Anything that's not mentioned on the wikipage that should be mentioned?

>>28612490
Wait, I have an idea.

What if you shrink both tech and void so it reads as
Cthulhu
Voidtech

Void and Tech on the same line under Cthulhu?

File: 1385970656578.png-(158 KB, 433x600, attemmpts.png)

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>>28612631
That's actually not a bad idea.

I'm not a fan of the results, but it's loads better than the previous CVT iteration. If you have any other ideas for improvements, I'll be back in the morning, and will be able to make the 1d4chan page if it hasn't already been done by then.

>>28612834
I'd be happy if we could get rid of the pseudo-Kana "tech" and use the same script as "The Void". Anyone have an idea if the font is out anywhere? I might give it a shot.

>>28612860
If you can find it, then go for it. I like the variation created. I'm not sure which is best of the 3, either the first or the third one.

>>28612909
Bumping for the night before I go to bed.

Again, can somebody check out the 1d4chan page, and point out any glaring errors or things we've left out from the 1d4chan article

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Void_Tech

>>28611213
>>28610781
Well, After thinking about this for a while, I think you might be right, So What about exceptional not having to use the double of orgone, but Every time they use orgone they have to use an Extra point, not only in Limit Weapons and transformations, also in Rituals and anything that has to do with orgone, So it would make the costs for exceptionals 2 to transform and 3 to Limit Weapons.

Poke for awesomeness.

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>>28612860
It looks to be a custom logo. I looked through Dafont and couldn't locate the font, if it exists at all. One option would be to simply Photoshop in the text in the style of the Void.

Or use an alternative font for both. I was about to post a few links but the browser crashed and I lost them.

File: 1386005664302.png-(58 KB, 433x600, logo idea.png)

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>>28617549
Something like this.

>>28617779
Also, it just occurs to me the stuff on the bottom of the lettering is morse code.

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>>28617779
And here it is fixed.

>>28614918
Exceptional Tagers have no orgone to use in rituals at all.

Remember, Tagers draw from their 'symbiotes' reserve for powers. They still EFFECTIVELY have 100% of their orgone. But not for rituals.

For Normal Tagers:
50% Orgone is for rituals and recharging their Symbiote
50% is for their Symbiote.

For Exceptional Tagers
100% of Orgone is used for their Symbiote.

This means that Exceptional Tagers have FAR MORE orgone to work with for their powers (in otherwords an average exceptional tager with about 8 or 9 orgone will get 2 shots and 1 transformation even if those numbers are doubled).

The difference is that unlike a NORMAL Tager, who when he runs out of Tager Orgone, can spend time meditating to force his symbiote awake using his ritual orgone supply and transform once more (moving orgone over from his normal supply and into his symbiote as if hand feeding it after it has knocked itself out). Exceptional Tagers do not HAVE that fall back option.

>>28618972
That's awesome. Can somebody give us that without the conversions above it? (we should record all of these for posterity, but yeah, this is awesome).

Okay, I'm going to see if I got access to the Wildfire forums and can begin things on that end.

>>28618972
I'll see about doing it myself in a bit.

File: 1386025085788.png-(46 KB, 433x190, Cthulhu Void Tech Logo.png)

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>>28621470

>>28622082
Anybody here able to make the letters for VoidTech white and with the same border as the Tech in CthulhuTech?

Just a thought.

>>28623194
http://wildfire-community.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1867

Set up the wildfire forum thread. For those who want to participate and keep track of it there.