So, Witness to Darkness seems a lot more debilitating than most of the Permanent tree-starting Infernal charms because its particular penalty scales up with your essence. Being Essence 5 and taking a -5 on all Charisma-based social rolls is pretty harsh if you ever want to be even remotely honest.

>>29518361
>taking Witness To Darkness
>ever planning on being honest

The Ebon Dragon mocks your foolishness behind your back and from a distance in case you find out and try to hit him.

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More things I've discovered:

>Shouting, Swearing, or Yelling are not appropriate Social Specialties
>Neither Cockney nor Jive are appropriate Linguistic Specialties
>"While Naked" is not an appropriate apecialty

>>29518361

Considering Manipulation and Charisma are entirely interchangeable in terms of results (that is, everything you can accomplish with a Charisma-based social attack, you could accomplish with a Manipulation-based one, and vice versa), it's actually a total nonpenalty.

>>29518440

Double negatives. By lying about your lies you can use manipulation to tell the truth.

>>29518440
Bullshit. You can't use Manipulation to give a rousing and honest speech to a load of soldiers, you have to be lying or misdirecting them in some way. And I've got no clue how you're supposed to use Manipulation while dancing, as Infernals and Yozi are wont to do.

What is the worst sickness an exalt can get in creation?

>>29518566

Mundane sickness? Probably one of the ones in the core. Consumption, maybe.

>>29518361
>Witness to Darkness seems a lot more debilitating than most of the Permanent tree-starting Infernal charms
It is. If you take that Charm you had better have not invested any points into Charisma in character creation.

>>29518533
>You can't use Manipulation to give a rousing and honest speech to a load of soldiers, you have to be lying or misdirecting them in some way.
Yes, and? That doesn't stop you from giving a speech to motivate them, or even a rousing one. Just exaggerate and lie while you're encouraging them and suddenly it's Manipulation. Or encourage them in a Manipulative fashion.
>And I've got no clue how you're supposed to use Manipulation while dancing, as Infernals and Yozi are wont to do.
Despite what Shakira may tell you, hips CAN lie.

>>29518566
Overall? The Great Contagion's fully-powered form, probably. Currently active? Final Viridescence from a high-Essence Infernal.

>>29518566
Green Sun Wasting, and the Great Contagion itself.

>>29518566
The Great Contagion.

More seriously? Probably Final Viridescence or some plague manufactured with Craft (Genesis).

>>29518566
Morning

Would giving a Baneclaw a second artefact dot justify giving it Piercing and Overwhelming (1)? Also, besdies the Ultimate Document, what would be a good artefact for a thief?

>>29518645
oh snap

>>29518663
>Would giving a Baneclaw a second artefact dot justify giving it Piercing and Overwhelming (1)?

If you really want to, but in general an artifact's dot rating should go up because it got cooler, not because it got bigger numbers.

>>29518533
You could be giving a huge, rousing speech to try to get them all hopped up and ready to fight - and know for certain that unless an earthquake swallows up the enemy are they're probably going to die.

>>29518714
>>29518612
Which is absolutely irrelevant if you're just trying to inspire your genuinely-awesome troops to do well in a battle that they actually do stand a good chance to win.

I'm not saying it's an unacceptable penalty, just that it's a lot worse than the penalties other Yozi have for their passive bonuses.

>>29518760
>Which is absolutely irrelevant if you're just trying to inspire your genuinely-awesome troops to do well in a battle that they actually do stand a good chance to win.

You can always exaggerate higher, Anon.

>>29518663
Give them the daiklave that cuts out people's memories and no one can remember seeing.

So, /tg/, if you were to stat Isaac Clarke from Dead Space in Exalted, what sort of Exalt would he be and how would you figure out the Ishimura incident, assuming he Exalts at some point during or shortly after it?

My initial thought is Twilight Solar because he's an engineer, but it occurs to me that he really more shows off the virtues of a Lunar--surviving something he shouldn't've, grit and determination to not give up, etc. The issue there is Lunar Crafting is sorta shit-awful, though.

Would empty threats to your troops count as Manipulation for an army? If you threaten that if you don't win all the survivors' families will be beheaded, but have no intention or are incapable of making good on that threat, could it be Manipulation?

>>29518818
There's no way you can't not win.

>>29518818
Yeah, that would be Manipulation. Basically, anything using misdirection, omission, outright lying, or other forms of trickery are Manipulation. Anything using honest reasoning, force of personality, personal likability, or genuinely imposing threat are Charisma.

>>29518428
"While Naked" isn't appropriate? There's gotta be a god in the Cerulean Lute that'll take issue with that.

>>29519010
While Naked should be a perfectly fine specialty for Performance or Dodge, and a bit iffy or magical realmy for most other skills.

>>29519010
Justify "While Naked" as an appropriate Lore specialty.

>>29519043
Everything you ever learned you tattooed on your body. If you're not naked you can't look at your tattoos to review your knowledge.

>>29519042
Yeah, I can definitely agree with this. Anything that is heavily affected by mobility or self-confidence, really. So, anything social, all combat abilities, Athletics (there was a reason the original Olympians did all their athletics in the buff), Stealth for sure, maybe Resistance...

Not so much Occult, Lore, Craft, Linguistics, or the like, I guess.

>>29519122
Athletics yes, everything else is just creepy "I want my character to do silly things while naked" business.

>>29519043
I don't know about Lore, or other mental skills, but I could see it working for Martial Arts, Melee, Dodge, Athletics, etc. to represent the fact that you're practiced in doing these things without being encumbered by clothing.

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>>29519122

>Occult

Helps with Neomah?

>Lore

Brings you closer to nature? Might that be better for survival?

>Linguistucs

>pic related

>>29519264
"Unarmored" would make a lot more sense in that case. Regular clothing for an Exalt wouldn't be encumbering in the least, and is mechanically identical to being naked. It's better for everyone at the table too, that your character is in a bikini or whatever clothing you wear instead of stark naked. I think Unarmored or While Unarmored is given as a specialty in the 2e core book too.

>>29519432
I dunno about unarmored, but unarmed is.

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>>29519432
>YFW Lunars can build up soak better than Celestial Battle Armor while naked

>>29519582
Poor Dean, the dude lost it when his son died.

>>29519596
He's absolutely correct, though.

I need some god sounding names for an animal minion I'll be getting; a massive hawk.

>>29519945
Rabbit-murderer. Hawks have really to-the-point names.

>>29519945
God-sounding or good-sounding?

Featherface is a name I like for birds.

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>>29519945
Hawky.

>>29519999
Well ideally both

>>29519945

Take your pick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Legendary_birds

>>29519945
make the hawk have 6 wings and call it sleipnir

>>29520343
A bit too magical

>>29518428
I'd probably allow Shouting so long as it would qualify for the Infernal charm Crowned with Fury (essentially, it must be an authoritarian command based around Charisma)

>>29520692
Wyld taint isn't magic.

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Nobody sneaks up on Night caste.

Is there anywhere that I can find a fairly comprehensive list of mutations alongside the books and page numbers where I can find their specific text?

>>29520777
Core 288-290, MoEP: Lunars 206-209, CoTD: the Wyld 136-137.

Who is the best Solar Iconic and why isn't it Harmonious Jade?

So what's the weirdest specialty you've seen used?

>>29520972
Jade's wonderful. Her only problem is that she isn't Panther.

>>29520972
Jade was an assassin who grew up being an assassin, then she Exalted, and decided to quit being an assassin so she could instead be an assassin.

None of the 2e Solar exalts are interesting.

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>>29520972
>Falling off rooftops

>>29518800

Look, he's obviously competent at things, which means he has to be a Solar, because they're the protagonist splat.

>>29521012
It's not that she quit her assassination job, just that she double-crossed her old boss after he tried to kill her.

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>>29521107
Oh fuck off with that shit, seriously. See frame 4.

>>29521168
>Solar tells the Lunar to do manual labor for him What are you implying?

>>29521197
that she has higher stats than he does

>>29519122
>>29519042
I have Performance while naked (Fan dance, bitch) and Medicine while naked for sanitation reasons.

>>29521197
>Solar tells the Lunar to do manual labor for him
>And she tells him to fuck right off and there's no way for him to force her to do it

wankwankwank, fuck the hell off.

On the subject of "while naked", am I correct in interpreting that you can have sex during combat, so long as you include a miscellaneous action in your flurry and accept a -1 DV penalty? I ask because I really don't want to always drop what I'm doing just because assassins show up.

>>29521842
I assume so.

Have you see the movie Shoot Em Up?

>>29521866
>Shoot Em Up
Perfect reference. Anyway, it would easier to just make it sex-related stunting instead of including it as an action in flurries. Unless you're engaging in sufficiently high-stakes sex to actually need to roll for it on an action-by-action basis in short ticks.

>>29521842
Well, maybe, but you can't make social attacks in combat time in 2e. Well, not unless it's Mass Combat, anyway.

>>29519043
>Justify "While Naked" as an appropriate Lore specialty.
Nudity, the primal state, harmonizes you thoughts and memories, your spirit and your body thus allowing you to operate information with greater efficiency.

>>29519945
>I need some god sounding names for an animal minion I'll be getting; a massive hawk.
Mela. Be extra-heretical to the Immaculates.

>>29521810
>>29521464
There are quite a few ways for him to force her to do it and you fucking know it. Were it not for the great Misho's infinite compassion and mercy he may have forced the issue.

>>29521551
>Medicine while naked for sanitation reasons.
This Cock-ring of Dawn's Cleansing Light is the only thing i need. Now let's get go practice medicine, baby.

>>29522824
>derpderpderp
That's all I'm hearing right now. If there were some way for a Solar to force a Lunar with significantly better social stats AND is a solid fighter who isn't his mate, please actually state it instead of solarwanking.

>>29522824
>There are quite a few ways for him to force her to do it and you fucking know it.
Hypothetically. Assuming he knows the appropriate charms in the first place. And even if he does, social combat ends as soon as people roll Join Battle, even if it's just Marena grappling him and cramming a sock in his mouth to shut up his social charms.

He's a Twilight, there's no reason to assume he has any proper access to Solar social-fu, and you can reasonable guess that since Marena's a Changing Moon, she's at least picking up some solid Appearance stuff, and probably Manipulation too, if not Charisma.

Yes, a Solar social specialist will beat a Lunar social specialist, generally speaking. But a Lunar specialist is much more socially adept than a Solar non-specialist, especially if they're willing to back up their socialization with a big stick - which she is. She's a combat badass, aside from being socially adept.

>>29522975
Was it stated how heavy Marena's Solar Bond is? That mechanic tended to lay a really nasty penalty to mental defenses against the Solar mate's social attacks, IIRC. But yes, even that doesn't stop the best defense against social attacks, which is to just punch the fucker.

(Amusingly, in 3e, this will no longer be possible)

>>29523162
Marena isn't Misho's Mate, and even if she was, her social abilities are way higher than his. Solar Bond 5 wouldn't be enough to even the odds in that case.

>>29523162
SHE'S NOT HIS MATE.

His mate, Resch Dan the White Tiger, never died after the Usurpation. He never got tattoos, either.

>>29523311
I heard Solar Bond 5 like HALVED MDV or something. At the very least, the way Lunar fanboys bitch and scream about it, you'd think that's what it did.

>>29523333
She's not? Eh, that's what I get for losing interest sometime around that one mute Dawn Caste showed up.

>>29523370
>She's not? Eh, that's what I get for losing interest sometime around that one mute Dawn Caste showed up.
You mean Karen, Marena's twin sister?

...it takes less than a day to read through it.

>>29522951
I'm not surprised that all you're hearing your mouth what with your mouth being open.

>>29523413
Losing interest isn't a matter of time consumption. It's a matter of having two fucks to rub together.

For that matter, I did finish reading it (as much as anyone can finish reading an incomplete story) and I never noticed Misho's mate showing up. Did know it wasn't Marena, though.

What's a good Malfean urge for someone whose personal Motivation is already to build a utopia where he's worshipped as an immortal god-king and use that utopia to conquer everything? Is this a good case of 'congrats, your urge gets to mesh well with your motivation,' or is there a good Malfean urge to serve as counterpoint to this?

>>29523599
>Lord your power over others

>>29523599
If you want an urge that conflicts your motivation, you can always play up the senseless rage and destruction aspect of Malfeas. You want your utopia, but Malfeas would like you reduce the entirety of the Eastern Forests to ash and smoke.

>>29523566
He's made an appearance in flashback, and Marena told Ten about him.

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I hope Lunar Taming Method is still in 3e.

>>29523728
I thought they really wanted to downplay Lunar Bond in 3E, though I can't be sure that this is true.

>>29523728
If it isn't you just use Threefold Binding of the Heart or Evocation from the Mirror.

>>29523728
I hope it isn't.
>[The Solar/Lunar Bond is] a whole big complicated thing with huge bearing on what the Lunars are doing, rather than a very simple brain lasso. (Holden)

>>29523765
I hope it's more like 1e where not every Lunar actually IS bonded to a Solar.

>>29523899
How does that work? Do Lunars just become bonded to Solars when they spend enough time together?

>>29523765
Outsider here: How intense is the Solar/Lunar Bond?I thought it was like a bollywood Reincarnation Romance sort of thing - the Solar and Lunar mate were, in some way or another, always connected by Fate (The ST had free reign to throw the Lunar and Solar mate into situations where they could meet, if it would lead to a good story.) There were some benefits to it (The Mate could not disguises themselves from their partner), but aside from that I thought it was kind of like an Aspect on a FATE character sheet - a free plot-hook for GMs to build around.


I just thought all the horror stories about mind-raped lunars were just examples of That Guy being a minmaxing faggot with a social character.

>>29523899
Eeeehhhhh, that's kind of missing the themes revealed so far.

>Lunars have never had a station of world-importance equal to the Sidereals or the Solars. This is not a bug, but rather a feature. Their past was defined by their relationship and subservience to the Solar Exalted. They were not the Wyld Kings or the leaders of the raksha, or the agents of the Bureau of Wyld Affairs. When the Solars vanished, their place vanished.

>This is supposed to be the inertia that impels the Lunars into the present. It is supposed to be the thing that uplifts and defines them. Not the state of being some relentless functionary, or having a definite place at the top (the top has lost its head, so that doesn't even make sense anymore) but rather figuring out what the fuck to do next. That's right, friends: the Lunars face the exact same existential terror that you do. But they are equipped with moonsilver claws and fangs that can rend the night and the wind and the fear. They can look into the face of the Endless with a snarl of rage, drag down the Nameless Beast from its throne and end its power over them for a time.

>It was not ever supposed to be about having a place, it was supposed to be about finding one. Being a Lunar was about being a refugee, and all the struggles that entails. The previous games dropped the ball on this. 1e was provincially aware of it, but overshadowed it in its focus on barbarism. 2e, sadly, did what 2e did and made them a sad functionary parallel to Sidereals, and it doesn't make sense because the twin infrastructures of "nature" and the "Wyld" are non existent. These are things that take care of themselves.
-Morke

>>29524054
Some are bonded, some are not. It's...weird.

>>29524109
On meeting they immediately get an Intimacy for the Solar.

The number of dots in the background determines how strongly they felt for the Solar in a previous life.

Rogue Abyssals can actually use their mate as an anchor to the world, since nothing they do with them generates resonance.

Most of the time it's nowhere near as bad as what went on with Desus and Lilith. That's really a cautionary tale of how bad such a relationship can be.

>>29524114
Not sure if Solar wankery there or not.

>>29524265
It's not. First Age Lunars were the partners of the Solars, and 2E handled the loss of that extremely badly. They were partners because their powers contrast and compliment with a Solars. Solarwank is "Solars are better at everything than everybody." Besides, that quote is Word of God.

A Solar's theme is "I Can" - the projection of power into mighty works.
A Lunar's is "I Am" - their bodies are their power and how they do their works.

>>29524109
>That Guy being a minmaxing faggot with a social character.
Poor Desus.

It is the Exaltations that are bonded together, not the souls so the "reincarnation" part should be taken with a lot of salt. Your Lunar might be Bull of the North's mate and have a mutual feeling that they're bros4life in a completely heterosexual way.

A sizable portion of 2E material is rather incoherent because it is written by freelancers (some of which knew fuck all about the staples of the setting) with little oversight from WW.

>>29524363
As long as Solars are in any way superior to the other Celestial Exalted in any way, it is Solarwank.

>>29524372
>A sizable portion of 2E material is rather incoherent because it is written by freelancers (some of which knew fuck all about the staples of the setting) with little oversight from WW.
And a standard practice of submitting way too close to deadline so their fluff bullshit couldn't be fixed.

>>29524411
You are misusing the term. Solarwank is shit like >>29521107 - where nobody can be better than Solars at anything.

>>29524485
I'm sure he thinks that what he said means the same thing as what you said.

>>29524109
>I just thought all the horror stories about mind-raped lunars were just examples of That Guy being a minmaxing faggot with a social character.
Basically, yeah. There's really not much mechanical or narrative support for it. Even Lilith's Solar Bond 5 is pretty inconsequential compared to Desus's social charms in terms of what made her so fucked up.

>>29524589
And even then, he used those charms on /everybody/.

He made an artifact book about how awesome he was that forcefully generated an intimacy towards himself on any who read it.

>>29524693
And it's heavily implied that he was a victim of his own social jankery.

>>29524887
Not sure I'd say victim, but he did use his mind powers on himself too. Everybody's getting mind controlled around Desus.

>>29525095
Desus did nothing wrong.

>>29525127
No one ever said or implied he did.

>>29525095
He limit broke too easily, and went into uncontrollable rages that killed many people, permanently injured others, and his wife only survived them because she had more Ox-Bodies and faster healing than any other Exalt type could get. And as soon as he came out of it, by habit he instantly started charms reflexively that made everyone else think it was anybody but his fault.

But the interesting part to keep in mind was that he invented said charms long before he needed them to keep that up.

>>29525245
If I could create a Charm that let me do an instant apology after doing something retardedly stupid, I'd invent that long before I turned into a psychopath. Like walk up to trio of dudes and call them all bitch-faced niggers, then pop the Charm and they apologize for being upset. It's like CHIM quicksave/quickload powers for conversations and faux pas. That'd be super useful for anyone, but especially for an up-and-coming Eclipse.

>>29525337
It's not an instant apology, though. It's a charm (or combo, not sure) that automatically lets him deflect all blame, usually onto the victim, reflexively as soon as he notices he did something bad.

>>29525562
It's close enough. Great utility for anyone who expects to get into conversations with others.

>>29518663
All artefact weapons have O (2) by Errata, IIRC.

>>29525814
Even then, if you're using an Artifact weapon, O is pretty useless.

>>29525833
By that I mean you're probably an exalt anyways, so you'll probably have an essence rating higher than the Overwhelming damage.

>>29520777
Anathema.

>>29522975
>She's a combat badass, aside from being socially adept.
As a point of order, Misho is pretty tough in combat as well.

>>29524411
No, Solarwank is when Solars are superior in EVERY way.
If Solar is better at killing shit with his sword while Lunar is better at doing that with his bear hands, it's mostly ok.

>>29525978
>bear hands

>>29525907
This is why Dawns a shit; EVERY sort of Exalt can very effectively add "and is a combat badass" to their primary job description, so why the fuck do we need dedicated warriors again?

>>29518361
>>29518403

Boy am I glad that we won't have to see Ex2's Ebon Dragon interpretation ever again. Just a forbidden preoccupation with death from here on in. The escape Charms can stay, but those were not very prominent compared to the giant tree of dickery that shall no longer be.

Well, not in Ebby's Charms, anyway. Malfeas can take over the asshole parts with all the Charms he won't have about dancing, while Szoreny gets the evil twin powers.

>>29526008
IIRC, in 3e they're getting 8 'associated' abilities and then pick 5 Caste abilities out of them.

Hypothetically, if Dawns as "ultimate combat general masters" were removed, and replaced with another concept, what would you choose that concept to be?

>>29526061
Source?

>>29526103
Separate secular administration from the Zenith Caste and make a Leadership caste.

>>29526103
Generals. As in, leading armies.

Overall, I'd shuffle around the Caste abilities without the rule of ability belonging to one caste and shuffle the weapon skills out of the castes entirely - everybody takes which one they like with Favoured picks. Maybe make Presence and Performance as "pick one out of the pair" - i.e. both Zenith and Eclipse (and maybe Dawn) will have access to that pair as Caste but need to take one of them. If you want both, take it Favoured.

So Dawns would have War and Bureaucracy at the core. Presence/Performance. Survival as it has "lead your army through harsh terrain" stuff. So on.

>>29526153
I think Leadership should replace "hurr perfection" as the general Solar thing entirely. Leadership, administration, and infrastructure. Solars should be really great at getting others to do the bitch work for them, but not so great when it comes to applying direct personal competence to problems; for that they should need Lunar champions and legions of servants/soldiers.

>>29526289
That has some problems. First, that leads to OP social-fu that we've been plagued already.
Second, most players like to do stuff directly, that makes them worse for that.

>>29526289
I like leadership as a theme, but it should still be by example.

I feel Legends of the Wulin suffers from the same problem, where there's the Warrior archetype who is better at fighting, and then there's all the other archetypes with their own special things. But EVERYONE is or can be a really good wuxia hero, so the Warrior feels kind of out of place.

>>29526330
Doesn't need to have OP social-fu, in fact I would be very happy to see Solar social magic being brought down to merely "highly effective" from "instantaneous perfect fucking mind control".

>>29526289
The perfection stick is only ruined by people who take it a touch too literally. They're about excellence, human skill taken to inhuman levels. Just as Lunars are human/animal traits taken to supernatural tiers. Other Exalts get stranger with Sidereals playing alogn the strands of Fate and Alchemicals building a better superbeing.

That and people who literally think Solars can do anything and are allowed to break all setting rules. If you ignore idiots being idiots then Solars are a nice example of the greek trope of Arete.

>>29526405
Yeah, I realise that. I still got a really bad taste from solarwankers and imbalance of 2e that lend credibility to them.

>>29526400
It's not going to be from what was spoiled before the fanbase shat the bed on the charm spoilers by flinging excrement into everyone's eyes before they even finished reading the charm.

The things spoiled involved skillful manipulation. One charm was basically making you behave on a certain stereotype/custom of a group you belong to (possibly bypassing your normal feelings on the custom so long as you were still part of the group) and another allowed the Solar to use a connection to a ruler to shape the social customs somewhat of the subjects.

>>29526435
Letting a bunch of fuckwits and an unfortunately rushed edition ruin a perfectly good heroic trope is a sad thing. I hope you'll let the edition's power balances at least try to fix it before you doom Solars to a relatively narrow theme to spite them.

And honestly? Leadership is part of their deal already, it's just not forced, it's naturally laid down by their charms, fluff and the setting. It works nicely. None of the splats do well when something as narrow as "leadership, requiring mooks to function" is forced like that. 1e Lunars weren't considered great when they all had to barbarians. I don't see "wimpy without minions" being a good way for the core Exalt type to go. A neat character gimmick, a terrible overarching theme for everyone to be forced.

>>29526451
So, Obnoxious American Tourist Insistence?

>>29526517
You say "perfectly good heroic trope", I say "boring and Mary Suedom-inviting tripe".

>>29526536
Something like that, to give it a nice Solars-Have-To-Be-Assholes vibe I suppose. I'm not sure how much joke you mean here given the somewhat polarized feelings on Solars...

The example given, as I remember, was meeting a man in a cave, recognizing his tribe and calling out to their custom of never turning a fellow traveler away from a fire and sharing food etc. The guy might not really believe it anymore since he left, but the charm makes him shrug and think "why not?"

>>29526571
It is perfectly good, unless Homer is tripe now too, always thought it was fairly well considered. Arete is greek myth stuff, I'm talking about Achilles and Odysseus. The kind of heroes that we bring up when we mention Exalted is a "heroic" game but not in a saturday morning cartoon sense.

Mary Sues gonna Mary Sue man, and all the Solar excellence means at core is "guys who are really good at things". Generally this means specific things, very specific things. There's just plenty of Solars so that the host can do nearly anything it could agree on.

Now, I'm not defending the enormous mechanical power gap between them and other Celestials here, some for flavor is fine, especially if it comes with caveats, but 2e fucked up, no fucking argument there. But we've been promised the stupid mechanical gap is being closed so worrying about that is pointless until we see the system and whether that claim is true or not.

So it comes down to whether or not "Really good at things" is more Mary Sue Inducing than "Really Strong/Fast/Smart/Pretty" or "Has License to Abuse Cause/Effect" or "Purpose built Sex/Fight/Build/Insult-Comic bot" or whatever overly simplified version of whatever Exalt you prefer.

>>29526705
>Something like that, to give it a nice Solars-Have-To-Be-Assholes vibe I suppose.
Oh I was just joking about a charm based on enforcing stereotypes

>>29526751
That's sort of a relief, I was just on the OP forums, some of the old shitty attitude migrated over, my ability to take a joke might have been damaged.

>>29526517
I'll see how 3e rolls. But at the moment, I have a kinda knee-jerk reaction: while I can appreciate /individual/ solars as awesome as they are, the moment /a collective/ image of Solars is presented, I rage.

>>29526791
Yeah, I can believe that.
As for the actual charm, I kind of really like it thematically because it can let the Solar force tradition despite their status or fuckups. Like, fighting your way to the throne room of a king and challenging him to an honorable duel. Everybody involved would love nothing more than to ignore your absurd challenge, but you compel the king to put that aside and accept.

>>29526814
Well, that's fair enough. I've always strive to be a reasonable guy with my neverending chain of Twilights. Some of them are bitter towards DBs due to all the fucked up wonders from the First Age (and due to being hunted down when trying to just sorta do their own thing). But the more arrogant version still let "repentant" DBs take up an honored place among his associates and the other extreme fell head over heels for a Fire Aspect of an ex-pirate DB in the far North. He ended up dedicating a ton of time to projects to protect her safety, often ignoring his own due to an inflated sense of invincibility caused by resistance charms.

Either case still has moments of supremely "Solar" attitude. I've bought entire blocks of discount slaves, turned them into high end mortal craftsmen for a single project, and left them as free men with the scraps of the project to make their own way.

But hey, can't please everyone. That said, I hope 3e pleasantly surprises you, or at least your favorite splat comes out nicely and on time.

>>29526827
I hadn't thought about it being used to get a challenge in like that, maybe even have the social guy declare it for the Dawn. But there's a lot of neat stuff for the charm! I believe some posters mentioned the Pirates of the Caribbean scenes with Jack declaring parley too.

Either way, don't quote me on 3e's final form of course, this was.... really early, before a massive charm rewrite as I understand.

>>29526934
>Either case still has moments of supremely "Solar" attitude. I've bought entire blocks of discount slaves, turned them into high end mortal craftsmen for a single project, and left them as free men with the scraps of the project to make their own way.
Actually, that IC attitude I like and see it as part of Solars.
It's when the wank goes to them being always right, never wrong and that if that attitude is present it shall never cause problems, etc that I have problems. When IC arrogance becomes OOC.

>>29527002
I see it as an "Exalted" attitude moreso than a "Solar" attitude.

>>29525849
In 2.5, i.e. as of the errata, minimum damage is one die, not your Essence rating.

>>29526193
Here's what I think. Dawns should be the General i.e. Commander class. They should still be sweet in combat, but more incidentally to their other charms than just because they have all the combat skills. They should trade out their weapon skills to other castes for fitting skills that they have. Martial arts to Zenith for Resistance, Throwing to Night for Athletics, Melee/Archery to Eclipse for Ride/Bureaucracy.

>"But anon, what if I don't want my Night caste to be a thrown weapon ninja, or my Zenith to be Panther?"

Then go suck a dick and take a different combat skill as a favored skill. That's a problem Dawns currently half three times over, with having one - maybe two - combat skills they're actually invested in, with two or three that they have zero use for. Spread the disappointment around; after all, I don't see people whining that they want their Water Aspect to have Melee instead of Martial Arts, or their Wood Aspect to get Thrown. They just take it as Favored if it matters that much to them. Solars should be the same way.

>>29520727
>sidemouth

>>29523554
>I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?
Also, that dude said that but WENT ON to refute your point. Whereas you started with name-calling and stayed there.

>>29529565
Solars really should not be pigeonholed into being the boringest portion. Solar War abilities are quite distinct inasmuch as they are about becoming the ideal solo warrior rather than forcing them to use flunkies, and the idea that the solar should have the highest rank in any military he joins is bullshit.

Sure, in the first age they ruled, because they had the divine mandate (translation: "Here y'go!"). In the second age there is absolutely no guarantee solars will become the supreme authority figures of the land (ok, ok, Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe aside) and there is absolutely no guarantee solars even WANT a boring desk job. Most solars want to be where the action is, the bad ass grunt on the front lines.

>>29518403
>>29518361

Oh noes! I lost a couple dice! Life is ruined now!

How often do you fucking roll social combat? Not everyone needs to break someone's mind every time they open their mouth.

>>29529639
The thing about Solars is that they can do a day's worth of "boring desk job stuff" in about half an hour, with the added benefit of knowing that it was done better than anyone else could have done it (Sidereals come close but have to approach it in a weird way and also have lower dice pools).

>>29529629
There's a difference between "refuting" a point, and derping so loudly that you can't perceive it.

>>29523162
Max is a -10 to MDV.

Surprisingly, this still is not even close to levelling the playing field vs Pretty Kitty, and considering lunars have a grand total of 2 (3 if you get into really weird fair folk shit) builds, there's a 50-50 chance of being a social fu expert, whereas for solars its more like 1 in 5.

>>29529656
Bureaucracy is still an Eclipse thing, not a Dawn thing.

People have a kneejerk "solars = top of the hierarchy" thing and I don't know to what degree its intentional in 2e, but its very cool how lunars, dbs, and alchemicals have a lot of shit that's great for standing with an army at their back, and solars have a lot of shit that's great when standing alone.

>>29529653
>How often do you fucking roll social combat? Not everyone needs to break someone's mind every time they open their mouth.
More than I roll for physical combat, that's for sure. Impassioned pleas, magnificent dances, etiquette at large-scale social engagements, making good first impressions, bartering, negotiating for the release of hostages or to establish a contract, intimidating someone into backing out of a fight, even just making smalltalk while hanging out at the local dining hall is all Charisma-based. It turns out that humans, even as Exalts, are hyper-social creatures, and are socializing basically constantly throughout their average day.

Why, is the bulk of your games combat and the occasional puzzle or something? And taking -5 to all Charisma-based rolls at Essence 5 is kind of a big deal if you don't want to go smacking people around with excellencies to make up for it.

>>29529771
Except in the canon Dawns were explicitly and specifically supposed to be the generals leading armies, not solitary warriors fighting as if they were an entire army unto themselves. I wish their Caste abilities more reflects that, with them having skills for being an officer/soldier, like Athletics, Survival, and Resistance, things actually necessary and important in the field, instead of just literally all the weapon skills.

>>29529656
>The thing about Solars is that they can do a day's worth of "boring desk job stuff" in about half an hour
This. A Solar general can do these things (using only War) even before >his forces break the marching formation:
>take the best possible position,
>make a logistically sound encampment.
>make sure that fortifications are in place ASAP,
>set up an effective reconnaissance and patrols.
And if he has a couple of War charms it will be super-effective.

Are there any charms that you would call 'essential' for an Infernal who wants to specialize in social combat?

>>29529824

>Why, is the bulk of your games combat and the occasional puzzle or something?

Either/or fallacy, much?

A significant portion of players want to roleplay social encounters, not pummel people with dice until their mind breaks.

In the rare chance there's a good reason for social combat more than once in a blue moon, and in the rare chance that you need to do it with charisma, 5 dice is not a big deal at all, you need to just stack a few more hearthstones or artifacts in general.

>>29529840

>Except in the canon Dawns were explicitly and specifically supposed to be the generals leading armies

Exaggeration much? The core 2e book describes lunars as the generals of the exalted host, not solars.

I'm sure you can find text supporting solars being generals, as well as other types being generals, its not a big deal, and as we can tell from their charms, other splats are way more about this than solars are.

Also, few solars have need for all their caste abilities.

>>29529931
>A significant portion of players want to roleplay social encounters, not pummel people with dice until their mind breaks.
If you're not roleplaying someone taking a -5 to all Charisma-based actions as being extremely socially broken while honest, you're roleplaying badly, even if the dice never come into a play.

Again, though, I'm not saying the penalty is unmanageable or game-breaking. I'm just saying it's way bigger than the minor penalties every other Yozi has for their basic, permanent charms.

>>29529879
Since social combat is mostly about hammering people over and over again, you need the charm that gives you a discount to excellency use. I would endorse the Malfean charm that gives you free UMI, but its hard to say. It may be out of your charm schedule.

>>29529941
>Also, few solars have need for all their caste abilities.
But most of them have way less waste charms than a given Dawn will. What Dawn has reason to invest in more than two combat skills - one for melee and one for range? What other caste will consistently, for the majority of their character concepts, consider at least two of their skills useless?

That's the Dawn problem.

>>29529959
>UMI
The one that makes anything other than supplication/begging an unreasonable request?

>>29529975
>waste charms
Meant 'waste Abilities,' my bad.

>>29529975

Eclipse.

Something like 70% of all eclipses I've seen never invest in Ride or Sail.

The other 30% are pirates, admirals, or normal westerners.

Come to think of it, I've never seen someone invest in Ride charms. or Ride, for that matter. Except for a Sidereal once.

>>29529958

>If you're not roleplaying someone taking a -5 to all Charisma-based actions as being extremely socially broken while honest, you're roleplaying badly, even if the dice never come into a play.

Opinion misrepresented as fact. The average NPC gets by with dice pools of 3-5 for honest interaction, and the average fiend can do better than that. He is still better with honest interaction than people without his "disability" is, it just takes him slightly out of his comfort zone.

>>29521042
>getting pwned by a Lunar

"Yade" always letting Team Solar down.

>>29529975
Martial arts go with everything, War goes with everything, and Melee, Archery, or Throw completes it. 3/5 is par the course. And they're way better off than, say, Eclipses.

>>29529991
>Come to think of it, I've never seen someone invest in Ride charms. or Ride, for that matter. Except for a Sidereal once.
Really? Players in my games tended to see a lot of utility in flying, unkillable, super-strong mounts, not to mention Hero Rides Away and One Man Cavalry. They had similar opinions towards Sail when they realized that 90% of everywhere important to go to in Creation is either on a sea/major river or within one day's travel by foot of one. Much of many campaigns, as a result, now take place onboard ships, and there isn't a single person who doesn't love the Eclipse for shortening travels, making them safer, and tossing out big bonuses to anyone on deck.

>>29529983
Yeah, and, iirc, makes it so your own imperatives are UMI.

>>29529991
Yeah, Ride and Sail are amazingly useless.

>>29530018
>He is still better with honest interaction than people without his "disability" is, it just takes him slightly out of his comfort zone.
Assuming he's got 5 charisma and at least 3 in Presence, sure. But that's a pretty huge investment to make just to make up for the penalty being offered by the Ebon Dragon's most basic permanent buff charm.

>>29530043
The problem is that Ride and Sail just aren't worth it, even if being a rider or sailor is something you like. If you need transport, Occult, for Sorcery is way better.

>>29529991
Prince Diamond will make use of Ride as an Iconic

>>29529991
Eclipses had to be shit since they got charm share.

>>29530068
Not every group is going to have a sorcerer who can summon up transport for everyone.

>>29530116
And not every group is going to want to show they have a Sorcerer.

>>29530116
I'm sorry. When have you ever known a circle to not have a demon summoning sorcerer in it?

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>>29530019
>Herp, Lunars can never be better than Solars in a fight!

>>29530058
>It is inconceivable that another could hold authority over Malfeas, no matter what oaths spilled from his mouth in momentary forgetfulness of his omnipotence. Accordingly, he treats any mental influence framed as a command as an unacceptable order. Social attacks framed as supplication or humble suggestions bypass this defense, though any insincere displays necessitate the attacker use Manipulation rather than Charisma. The Storyteller remains final arbiter over whether a given attack bypasses this Charm or not.
>The basic defense of this Charm presents more of an inconvenience to social adversaries, who can easily stunt around it if they can swallow their pride or cultivate a taste for caustic irony. Against these clever opponents, the Infernal may reflexively spend four motes to add his Essence to his Dodge MDV for a scene.
Nah, doesn't seem like your own imperatives count, but someone having to stunt and beg in order to convince you of something is pretty sweet, so is a scene-long buff of your Essence to your Dodge MDV for the scene when they do so. Witness to Darkness actually stacks fantastically with that, adding your Essence to your MDVs against all Manipulation-based attacks and as bonus successes to recognize deception.

The only way around those two defenses is by genuinely and honestly begging and supplicating, otherwise you're going up against someone whose Dodge MDV is boosted by at least 6 (this is an Essence 3 Malfeas charm).

>>29530058

Just use a few level 1-3 hearthstones and artifacts the party Twilight makes, man. Its a long goddamn time before you hit E5, so you have plenty of time.

Fiends are just about the only kind of Infernal whose charms aren't overshadowed by Solars equivalents (though their excellency is a pain in the ass), so they have a few minor drawbacks to compensate.

Also I was thinking more in terms of maxing the ability scores you intend to use for socializing, and getting a nice big app, not blowing points in a dump stat.

>>29526013
What was Ex1's Ebon Dragon interpretation?

>>29530125
>When have you ever known a circle to not have a demon summoning sorcerer in it?
Usually, actually. Most groups I've been in have recognized how much harder it is to find and learn spells than it is to learn charms.

>>29530116
Okay, we still haven't cleared why we aren't just spending charms on sorcery (its one damn charm, plus one for the spell) instead of wasting it on stupid horse tricks.

>>29529656
>Solars are better and more efficient at being bureaucrats than the Bureaucracy Exalts
Something is wrong here.

>>29530149

No, the setting is working as intended.

>>29530149
>the Bureaucracy Exalts
Sidereals are the NSA Exalts.

>>29530161
Then fuck the setting "as intended". Solars do not need to be better than other Celestial Exalts at their own niche.

>>29530139
Ex1: A 2spooky4u individual obsessed with escaping Hell, even if it was impossible, who loved only doomed things.

Ex2: A cowardly, rapist pedophile cardboard cutout villain obsessed with being as edgy and offensive as possible, at all times.

>>29530178
Yes they do. That's what they were made for.

>>29530149
There are exactly as many Sidereal castes who favor Bureacracy as Solar castes, dude.

>>29530148
see
>>29530140

>>29530187
Nope.

>>29530199
Just start with it.

Hell, 1SC alone will ensure even a dragon blooded can run with the big dogs.

Also, its deeply hilarious that the only reason to take such charms is because getting the good stuff was just too hard for an awesomepants solar.

>>29518800

Honestly, probably best to do a twilight, man. Maybe the ishimura incident is something fair folk related? But regardless, if you want to do crafting well you have to be a solar, and as evidenced by one and two he is a damn good engineer, so he basically has to be a twilight if he wants to have craft charms actually worth using.

>>29530264
But you don't NEED a sorcerer

>>29530389
Sure, but its insanely useful.

>>29530178
The Sidereals' niche isn't bureaucracy, it's being agents of Fate. Doing management things like a mortal, but in a fraction of the time and better than any mortal could, is exactly the way that Solars approach problems. Sidereals are part of a bureaucracy, but their area of competence is creative use of strange, esoteric and highly specialized fate-twisting abilities.

It's comparable to this: Fair Folk are beings made up of stories. Storytelling isn't just what they do, it's what they are. But if you want to tell a story so compelling that it ignites the populace's passions and brings them around to your way of thinking, that's something a Solar could do. The Fair Folk do things differently.

>>29530264
>flying, unkillable, super-strong mounts, not to mention Hero Rides Away and One Man Cavalry
>stupid horse tricks
I think you need to reread the Ride and Sail charms.

>>29530864
>actually having use for those charms
You must get stuck playing a ton of games in the boring west or stuck in one of those bland horse towns

>>29531151
>boring west
First of all, the West is sweet.

Second of all, most of the cool places in the rest of the world are still coastal, with huge ports and bays.

Third, those that aren't tend to be situated on massive rivers, some of which are literally tens of miles across, like out in the Threshold.

Fourth, airships are piloted using fly.

Fifth, Sail charms actually offer all kinds of crazy benefits unrelated to actually sailing. Combat bonuses, massive social bonuses, and so forth, all tangentially themed around being a badass, renowned sailor/pirate/general hero. They're embracing this one even more in 3e based on certain preview charms, but it's true in 2e already.

So, basically, you don't know shit about:
A. The setting.
B. The range of applicability of the charms.
C. What Eclipse travel charms actually entail.

>>29531243
>Fourth, airships are piloted using fly.
Using Sail, damn it. Stupid fingers.

>>29531334

Isn't there only one place in the world where you can ever get an airship?

>>29531367

Yeah, it's called "the party Twilight and/or chargen."

>>29531367
Nope. There's a country in the far North that produces purely-mundane ships dangling from zeppelins, hot air balloons that travel air currents in the South, dune skimmers also in the South; it would be fairly easily to stick wheels instead of blades on them to let them travel on any planes region, airships in the Realm, Lookshy, and anywhere else that has a properly artifact-reinforced military that you can hijack a ship from, dotting the skies of Malfeas and Yu Shan, plus Autocthon if it's in your setting, still stowed away in ancient garage-manses/drydock-manses, discovered in the Eclipse's First Age tomb at character creation, or any of the above, from humblest balloon to grandest sky-dreadnaught, built by any Solar with Craft (Magitech), Craft charms, and some free time on their hands. Hell, that goes for any exalt type, really.

So, it mostly just depends on how grand/magical you want it to be. As a general rule, though, anyone with a Craft excellency should be able to design a mundane airship without even using any more specialized Craft charms. It shouldn't even be that hard.

Aren't there even flying daiklaves?

>>29518800

His role as an engineer in a rescue crew feels most appropriate for a Dragon-Blooded, but I guess you could turn him into a Solar if you change the premise so that he's actually in charge of everything and your boss is actually a subordinate giving you directions. Not sure if you absolutely have to play him as a Twilight or other crafting/magic oriented type. I haven't played the Dead Space games in a while, but we never see him do any real engineering work other than pressing buttons, do we? A soldier with half-way decent directions could do the same.

Hmm... how's this for an idea: Lookshy discovers one of the Titan-class aerial citadels (mountain sized airships featured in the first age books and Return of the Scarlet Empress) on the edges of the Wyld floating slowly towards Creation and sends a Mantis or two or even a Kireeki-class skyreme filled with crack troops and magitech experts to asses the situation and salvage whatever they can. Alternatively they already sent one mission, but lost contact with it and you're the follow-up crew. Could be a one-shot or a several sessions lasting story arc with however many PCs involved depending on your needs. There's potential to include absolutely any or none of the major players in the entire setting, since everyone would want to get theirs hands on such a prize, but there's a justifiable reason for each of them to not find out due to Wylf interference or whatever.

>>29531495
There's daiklaves that can turn in to windblades, yes.

>>29531515
Are those the ones that turn into floating transports?

>>29531510

My idea was that he was a mortal with magitech expertise during the Ishimura incident (plausible if he's already Enlightened). And yeah, he doesn't do a whole lot of engineering in Dead Space 1, leaving his expertise there more an informed attribute, but in 2 he jury-rigs working stasis and kinesis modules, plus a plasma cutter, from relatively basic hospital equipment, and in 3 he scratch-builds all sorts of guns and gun-like things from scavenged materials.

Admittedly, he'd be easy to do in Autochthon--the Necromorphs are a semi-unique manifestation of Gremlin Syndrome, bam. Though he'd not Exalt (until he died, if his previous lives were also really badass). Unless it's a game set after the Seal is opened... can shards of exaltation cross the seal?

Holy crap. Just got up to date with http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/48715-new-3e-spoiler .
To the asshole who wishes one of the playtesters to break NDA and release everything on 4chan : You are a gigantic imbecile and have no idea what your idiotic wish would entail.

I can't believe such immature people exist in actual reality. I have been waiting for 3rd Ed for as long as you have. I want it just as bad as you do. But it's a fucking RPG, not the second coming of fucking christ. There is only one good reason to break NDA ever, it's when you know Product X is like one month from release, hype is building up, but you as a Beta Tester can assess the state of Product X truthfully (as there isn't much chance it will get better in the month left before release) and want to warn your fellow consumers not to fall into a trap.

Any other reason is selfish, immature, ridiculous behavior that inevitably invites terrible consequences like for example, further delaying the release of a product as half its content has been leaked before release and needs to be altered some way, or breaking the trust between the community and Devs, resulting in Onyx Path giving up on all forms of external playtesting, further delaying the products as all playtesting has to be managed internally. Also, the Playtester that breaks NDA will be sued, which is terrible in itself, so fuck you for wanting anyone to live through that kind of shit.

In conclusion, you should really reevaluate your fucking priorities.

Please rest assured of my all encompassing, absolute contempt for you,

Anon.

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>>29531546
I can't hear you I'm having too much fun flying around on my windblade that is also my sword.

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>>29531716
>pic related

>>29531716
I'd be interested in what characters they are playing.

>>29526517
>None of the splats do well when something as narrow as "leadership, requiring mooks to function" is forced like that. 1e Lunars weren't considered great when they all had to barbarians.
That's not why people dislike 1e Lunars.

>>29529991
Ask anyone whose every played a cavalry soldier how often he got to do cavalry shit. I played a skyrider paladin in AD&D once, with a goddamn pegasus mount, and it saw more utility as a pack horse and scout than a warhorse.

>>29530179
>Ex2: A cowardly, rapist pedophile cardboard cutout villain obsessed with being as edgy and offensive as possible, at all times.
I have no words.

>>29531546
Windblades are either flying windsurfers or hoverboards, I think. I forget which.

>>29531716
>But it's a fucking RPG, not the second coming of fucking christ.
> “I've done a lot of RPG battles over the years, across dozens of systems and a multitude of genres. After our first combat playtest with Ex3, I don't think I could go back to any of them. The core mechanics are just that groundbreaking, innovative, and *fun*. Further, the new Solar charmset is nigh universally inspiring, often jaw-dropping in terms of power, and shows every bit the amount of time, passion, and polish that's gone in to it. The only trepidation I have so far is knowing how difficult it will be to decide which epic Charms to give to new characters when we've got the full set in front of us.”

When I went back to get that quote, I saw one of the playtester quotes talking about how there's "mechanical space" for Sidereals. How the fuck would he know that? They're just playtesting the core, right?

>>29531974
>How the fuck would he know that? They're just playtesting the core, right?
Ostensibly he can see implied uses for/implementations of mechanics that would work well for Sidereals and aren't being used for Solars.

>>29531974
"mechanical space" means (i assume) that the system can clearly incorporate sidereals, not that he's actually played with sidereals (in which case he would just say "the sidereals are great")

Actually yeah, did the playtesters make the new iconic circle?
Like if you are a playtester is that one of the special perks, your character becomes canon like being either a main or a secondary like Admiral Sand or Fire Orchid?

>>29532116
Nope. They were created by the fluff-writers working with the mechanics guys to make sure they didn't write abilities that won't exist in the game. That would be cool, though, wouldn't it?

>>29532116
Reminds me of when I was just getting in to this game and reading through the fluff. I thought that since it was 2nd edition and took place in the second age, that when it referred to the first age it was referring to Pathfinder Society-ish shit that happened in 1st edition, and people like Larquen Quen were the PCs of well-known people in the game's community. I also, for a while, thought EX3 would take place in the third age.

>>29532147
>to make sure they didn't write abilities that won't exist in the game
Please don't remind me of the illiterate First Age Solars that are at least hundreds years old.

>>29532271
Dude, its been like 7 years, let that typo go. They wrote a 0 instead of a 10. It can happen.

>>29532251
That's adorable.

>>29532311
PLEASE don't remind me of giant, retarded statblocks that are supposed to be villains.
Who the fuck thought that "this guy is better at *everything* your whole circle can do in the next 100 or so years, even if it has fuck all to do with his general theme.

So, what's the easiest way to shoot overwhelming amounts of flashy ki attacks out of my hands?

>>29533211
Radiant Holocaust Flare
It's an upgrade to Eyes Like Daggers Glance, which itself upgrades Crypt Bolt Attack.

Basically you shoot lightning at anything you want any number of times(although flurry penalties still apply normally).

It's an Abyssal charm, though, and I believe post 2.5 you can only shoot 5 bolts with it, but I don't know for sure.

>>29533280
So... Force lightning?

>>29533374
Kind of. Crypt Bolt Attack lets you throw 2 lightning bolts per turn(Rate 2), Eyes Like Daggers Glance increases the damage and accuracy and lets you shoot the lightning from your eyes, and then Radiant Holocaust Flare makes you float up in to the air and, if we're talking fluff, shoot bolts of lightning from every pore on your body. Crunch-wise it ignores the rate limit and adds 2 to the accuracy.

>>29532370
He's actually pretty weak by Legendary Chargen standards.

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>>29533374
>>29533433
Yeah, Abyssals get that cool thing.
If you're an Eclipse and get the Charm share, or if you can be content with ki weapons rather than ki blasts, you can have immense fun with Solar Thrown. You could do it as an Abyssal too.

>>29533634
Why Chakrams in particular?

>>29534719
Because they're both Fiery and Solar.

>>29534719
Are there any artifact javelins?

>>29533634
You're forgetting the two charms that'll let you autofire against all targets for free as an interrupt against the solar-hating act of trying to roll initiative/battle/ambush against you, and the one that lets you stock up those attacks to use elsewhere, you know, in case a thousand of those dudes are mooks.

>>29534719
Just because I personally like Chakrams and shuriken more than other throwing weapons in Exalted. Nothing more sophisticated than that.

>>29534810
I'm certain there are. It'd be in Wonders, Oadenol's, or maybe Scroll of the Monk. I think it had a single hearthstone slot too. Most artifact throwing weapons are returning weapons that come back to you after you toss them.

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>>29534894
From page 160 of SotM

>>29534890
What about throwing hippos at up to 5 targets from an infinite distance away as an automatic surprise attack?

>>29534894
Are there any hearthstones that grant electric damage? I want to be Zeus.

>>29534929
Why the two damage values?

>>29534890
I remember that. That's one of the combos that made the usurpation impossible, because all billion enemy participants get shot before they roll init.

>>29534890
>you're forgetting the super OP Ink Monkeys bullshit reflexive attack Charms
No, I'm purposefully ignoring them. Shit's ridiculous.

>>29534932
Weapon doesn't matter. If of the 300 solars there were one or two thrown masters, every not-solar dies.

>>29534894
>Chakrams & Shurikens
>being this weebo

>>29534940
Not to my knowledge. However air aspect dragonbloods can use lightning, and you can easily take their charms, though they're weak and useless to a solar.

>>29534989
>chakram
>weeaboo

>>29535013
Maybe Xenaboo

>>29535013
Isn't it an indian weapon?

I think I also saw a pretty neat 4-or-5 dot javelin in the codex.

>>29535035
Yeah, Indian epics are one of the primary sources Exalted draws from. And for damn good reason.

>>29535083
Wasn't that an alatl rather than an actual javelin?

>>29534967
Anyone?

>>29535157
the first is for thrown or melee spear damage. The second is charging damage or bracing against a charge. Most spears have it set up like that

>>29531974
>That's not why people dislike 1e Lunars.
It's one of the reasons I've seen bandied about. That along with a continuing trend of irrelevance, and thumb-sitting at the edge of Creation. I admit, I'm not big on them, but my point stands, overly narrow concepts are bad, and just because shitheads can't separate in0game arrogance from metagame arrogance is not a reason to go in and "punish" Solars as the core PC option by hobbling them like that.

>>29533634
Sounds a lot like Archer from F/SN. I like it

On that note, Servants seem like they would fit especially well in Exalted.

Some Martial Arts work well with archery; what are some styles that can benefit from throw?

>>29535395
It's because they're based on the same figures. Gilgamesh, for example. The dynamic in FSN between a mortal handler and an exalted entity isn't really a thing Exalted can do, though.

>>29535270
Okay, that makes sense.

An Orichalcum Vajra has +1 Acc, +1 damage, and +10 range. Def would apply if you were using it as a spear, but not as a throwing weapon. It'd have the stats:
Speed 5
Acc +3
Damage +7L
Rate 1
Range 60
Attune 5m

By itself you could throw it 60/120/180 yards. With regular Triple-Distance Attack Technique that extends to 180/360/540. With the 10x Triple-D that's 600/1,200/1,800 yards. One mile is 1,760 yards, so at Thrown 5, Essence 4 you can throw this super slick javelin out to one mile. You shouldn't have any problems being able to see something a mile away, especially not if you use any Awareness Charms.

Then you hit Essence 6, get Thrown 6, and that becomes 60/120/180 miles.

>>29535457
Solar Hero Style works great with Thrown and its associated charms.

>>29535497
>Def would apply if you were using it as a spear, but not as a throwing weapon.
Ignore that line, I wrote that for using the thing as an orichalcum melee spear.

>>29535457
Air Dragon Style's form weapon is the Chakram.

>>29535497
>Essence 6
Stopped reading.

>>29535497
That should be +4 Accuracy.

>>29535526
I don't know if it as an Air Dragon ability or if it's just the nature of the weapon, but Infinite Jade chakrams would wound twice when they attack. Really useful for killing things.

Doesn't Air Dragon also increase archery?

>>29531716
Bullshit. Leaking it is justifiable for any number of reasons, including "This is awesome, and I want to share it."

>>29535825
Do you honestly think any of them are worth the consequences appart from the one he mentionned?

>>29535859
Do you honestly think it's not?

>>29535859
>Also, the Playtester that breaks NDA will be sued, which is terrible in itself, so fuck you for wanting anyone to live through that kind of shit.

Also, if they release it anonyously, they won't be sued because Onyx Path won't know who they are.

>>29535794
No, that's Wood Dragon Style, whose passive bonus alone makes it a must-take for literally any archer.

>>29536233
Presumably they watermarked all their documents with a certain mark for each playgroup, so if one leaks they can identify which group it came from.

I doubt they have the budget for that but who knows.

>>29536233
They most certainly have protected PDFs so they can identify the source of a potential leak. Having a small closed playtest with only a small number of testing groups allows for it.

Also it's only one of the many consequences.

>>29536299
I'm not saying they should, but dewatermarking a PDF is pretty easy for someone who wants it dewatermarked badly enough. They don't do much to stop sufficiently determined PDF sharers.

>>29536385
But every tiny hurdle is a great disincentivisor because most people just don't give enough of a fuck.

>>29536385
This is true, if anyone actually wants to get it out there anonymously, they can, and it'd only take a few hours of work.

>>29536514
It's a playtest PDF, no need for formatting. Just Copy+Paste into Word, then Save As PDF.

>>29536514
Even then, I doubt they'd want to do it, as they have been selected because they were willing and able to help the devs.

None of them would enjoy the consequences of breaking NDA.

>>29536514
I'd rather they didn't completely, because I'd rather not have anything happen that would delay the product further. I want Exalted, but I'd like everyone else to have it too. So I can play it with them.

I have talked with playtesters, but the most I'm able to get is that they're enjoying the playtest and that it's loads better than 2E (not a high bar, admittedly).

>>29536739
From the quotes provided, I kinda feel like they went a bit too overboard into finding people who already felt as if the devs can do no wrong.

>>29536739
>None of them would enjoy the consequences of breaking NDA.
Which is why they'd do it anonymously.

>>29536742
Yes, I just want 3e to come out already too.

>>29536842
Not a surprise there, the Exalted forums are known for being a circlejerk for the devs.

>>29530127
That's right, they can't. Haven't you heard of what happened when Hercules fought the Nemean Lion?

>>29536922
>this nigga doesn't even Enkidu
>laughing_ishtar_priestesses.jpeg

>>29536842
From what I understand they went mainly for transgender groups, groups with English as a second language, and people living outside the United States.

>>29537213
No, see, I tried that and it didn't really work out beyond an exchange of e-mails and a polite conversation. Looks like all the people are just groups the devs knew personally for a period of several years.

>>29537523
Not necessarily mutually exclusive with what I said. And I was basically quoting Morke.

>>29536742
Then tell them to leak it already, please!

It's not like the leak would cause any delays if they do it anonymously. The devs would still have just as many playtesters, and it's not like they'd slow down the process to spite them.

File: 1389829985249.png-(283 KB, 500x434, Untitled.png)

283 KB PNG

Sup, Exaltedbros. I need some help. How do y'all make heads or tails of Atrology. I WANT to like Sidereals, but their main "Thing" is so badly conveyed, it kinda kills any desire I have to play one.

>>29537924
>and it's not like they'd slow down the process to spite them.

They totally fucking would. These are the people who killed the charm spoilers release because people told them that shitty charm ideas were, in fact, shitty.

>>29537985
Use the simplified astrology rules from Shards.

>>29537924
I'll see what I can do, though I make no promises.

>>29537992
I'm sure they were just quivering in their boots about the meanies on /tg/, yes.

>>29538471
Not on /tg/, on their own forums.

>>29537924
It could slow shit down even worse anonymously if they decide their playtesters can't be trusted except in-house. Fewer testers and all of them the devs, narrower view.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be downloading it if it popped up but I worry about what might happen.

>>29538579
I'll talk to them over IRC and see if it might happen. MOST LIKELY NOT, though, as they wouldn't share it with me either. Still I'll give it a shot.

>>29537985
If you can puzzle through it, it's easily one of their most potent abilities. It's just unbelievably shittily explained.

>>29537992
The charm ideas were fine, the forums were bitching about everything under the sun, half screaming that Solar social combat was dead, half screaming that it was worse than in 2e somehow, a splattering of those people crying bloody murder that they censored some mechanic-y bits. And like 3 people were discussing the possible uses and shit.

I'm >>29526451
and explained the gist of the charms, which is all we got. The fan reaction was so fucking caustic with no basis (people are bitching about the mechanics of a system THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW before someone jumps on me about "devs can do no wrong" or some stupid shit).

That said, I'd believe the devs would give up on external play testing out of spite, their position has them fielding a shit load of fucking vitriol no matter what they do, they don't always handle it right, a few of them aren't so good at keeping cool under the avalanche of bitching they get when they consider changing the drapes in Mnemon's bed chamber.

>>29538803
>shit load of fucking vitriol
Oh, they should make Infernal relics!

>>29531716
Fun fact: That person calling for a leak is a sock for Nick Numbers. You all remember Nick Numbers, yeah?

>>29532311
That was the greatest typo of all time.

>>29538871

Remind me. Also, if you're really Holden, why don't you use a trip?

>>29538906
Get a trip, Holden, Ian Watson has one too (unless we drove him out).

>>29538871
>Nick Numbers
Not even remotely. I try to remain oblivious to idiotic drama, and this sure sounds like exactly that.

>>29536385
Dewatermarking a PDF is trivially easy. Also, I don't know how to use Adobe to watermark a PDF, because I am not a layout person.

Figuring out which sentences in your 100,000 words of playtest documents are worded a tiiiiny bit differently from anyone else's playtest documents, that is significantly harder. And I do know how to write sentences.

>>29538803
>people are bitching about the mechanics of a system THEY DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW
Yeah, well, the devs are spoiling Charms that affect mechanics that nobody knows, too. Trying to build hype but just coming off as miserly to me.

>>29539026

How often are you here, Holden?

>>29538910
Nick Numbers was the dude who completely lost his shit when I did that huge Fair Folk rebuild, because it removed the tricks he used to make Celestial-slaying god-raksha, and then spoke up to champion every broken thing in the game as the true and beautiful vision of what the game should be. He got banned from every Exalted venue I'm aware of for being a dark lord of the sperg, in the end.

As for why I don't trip, I am lazy and never bothered learning how. These are the only 4chan threads I post in, and then only once in a blue moon. That IRC guy from a few posts up told me about this thread so I came to check it out.

>>29538871
How would 4chan know the username of someone who posts on a handful of internet forums, and not even under that specific name? I think the only place people called me that was spacebattles.

Even I can't remember what particular piece of drama got me banned from the old White Wolf forums. I'm sort of flattered that you think that I'm well enough known for 4chan to just know who I am right off of the top of the bat, though.

>>29538958
He's using the same Infernal character name on a PBP that Nick Numbers used for an Exalted Modern game ("Winston Jones"). That's a pretty strong coincidence.

>>29539167
To be honest I don't think anyone anywhere cares about Nick Numbers.

Could you talk to us about Exalted?

>>29539122
Oh, yeah, I remember that now that you mention it. Did I get banned for that? Huh.

>>29539086
Once every couple of months, when someone actively points me to a thread. I'm usually too busy/lazy to trawl through /tg/ to see if there's an interesting Exalted thread on any given day. I'll probably be around more when it's release time and there's something to actually talk about.

>>29539126
You are an enduring legend for both your insane love of dopey mechanics and for making Chung flame out so hard he got perma'd.

>>29539209
How's progress on the game coming along, by the way? Just a rough ballpark?

>>29539026
See, that's clever, I like that.
>>29539045
If they drop spoilers, the spoilers aren't good enough, if they don't drop them then they're being mean and evil. Do you not see how this contributes to them not giving us anything substantial? They change something, they're ruining the game forever, they keep something, it's why new editions are a waste of time. Seriously, mountains of Infernal artifacts like >>29538846 said.

At this point I'm happy OP can keep people on the team to try fixing the system. If they fail, we can all go back to our respective editions, but dammit give the thing a chance, its no skin off your back to let the thing take its course.


Spoilers are about generating hype, teasing people. And you can tease just fine for Exalted with just charm concepts like they were doing. I'm still bitter that those were ruined. Deciding whether or not the system is a broken clusterfuck could have waited for release for fucks sake.

>>29539194
Yes, please. These two namefags need to stop jerking each other off. This isn't /k/.

>>29539122
A tripcode is generated with a hastag and a passcode in the name field, either on its own or after the name. The tripcode currently in my name field was #example.

>>29539167
So, definitely idiotic drama. I give exactly zero fucks about these 'community' issues. The issue quickly outstrips the offense(s) that started it.

>>29539194
>>29539209
>Could you talk to us about Exalted?
Personally, I'm more interested in hearing the fluff/setting concepts that have already ended up on the cutting room floor. Things that were decided against immediately, or that were dropped after long debate. Whatever. Neat things that could-have-been in Creation, but won't end up making it into the final draft.

Ammunition for homebrewing and campaign content, in other words.

>>29539194
Sure, what do you want to kick around?

Jesus these captchas are a bitch to decipher.

>>29539267
>If they drop spoilers, the spoilers aren't good enough, if they don't drop them then they're being mean and evil.

Obviously the only solution is an open playtest.

>>29539306
The one that's distorted in the same way ever time is the only word you actually need to type; you can write whatever you want for the other, since Google is just using them to improve its image recognition software. I usually just type "nigger".