bumpin to make sure someone sees this

That sounds hype as shit, but I can't view the link on my iPhone (safari).
Will check it out after breakfast and what not though

Thank you sir anon, I'm always down for more pdfs of game stuff.

>>29772339
i thought none was going to see this,this early. i was planning on making another thread later on in the day,if not tomorrow if you miss out on it..

Gotta head to work, hopefully this will still be around when I get back.

A bit underpowered and not even half as good as almost everything else they do.
Still, I'd donate to a KS to get a fixed version out.
Swordsage + Soulknife = LOVE. PURE LOVE.

bump

last bump.

if this doesnt pick up ill make another one later or tomorrow

>>29772459
What this dude says.

nice one
they seem interesting
can they compete with the ToB classes crunch wise?

Wait, only three classes?

>>29772459
>Swordsage + Soulknife = LOVE. PURE LOVE.
Am I being trolled or is this actually useful?

>>29774590

It's a preview thing.

>>29774620
Use Swordsage to be good at swording, use Soulknife to git gud blades? I can't think why not.
Unless your GM doesn't like Psionics, in which case... fuck them.

>>29774620
Worst kind of powergaming shit that makes no sense fluffwise.
>>29774647
Oh I see.

>>29774689
>Worst kind of powergaming shit that makes no sense fluffwise.
Why do you think that ? A guy that is so good with swords that he can create one with his mind, mastering the concept of Blade, the very platonician idea of Sword, makes no sense in the fluff of a place where you have dragons, gods, creatures from other planes, demons, and so on and so forth...

>>29774667
>>29774620
>>29774852

Problem is that PF Soulknife lacks a certain OOMPH and PoW is generally a little bit underpowered. It's a delicious concept otherwise.

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>>29774852
>A guy that is so good with swords that he can create one with his mind, mastering the concept of Blade, the very platonician idea of Sword

>>29774922
Yea I... just wanted to post this. The age-old question is solved. Archer is a Swordsage with Soulknife levels.
And probably some Arcane Duelist shit going on on the side.

>>29774689
>Soulknife
>Powergaming

My fucking sides, /tg/. You're almost as bad at D&D as you're at MtG.

>>29775013
Don't lump us in with that retard. A lot of /tg/ knows better than him.

>>29774852
I think there's a certain limit to how far people are willing to go, though. Golarion is 99% standard kitchen sink fantasy fare, and that's what people expect. They expect to slay dragons like St. George, adventure through Hell like Dante, and cast magic spells like Merlin (or at least the flashier, over-the-top modernized versions of these archetypes) because of the space those stories occupy in the Western collective consciousness. They don't know what the fuck a "soulknife" or "swordsage" is and that unfamiliarity is straining "credulity" in what they expect from their standard fantasy world.

>>29774993
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/aetruis-lab/sword-savant-2

Take a gander at that.

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>>29774667
I'm new to rpg's. What are Psionics? Psychic powers and stuff?

>>29775072
> there are people that actually use Galorion as their campaign setting
/tg/ is making me drink.

>>29775125
Basically yes. It generally runs on MP rather than vancian casting.

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>>29775134

>>29775134
Well that would be the default assumption when discussing Pathfinder, wouldn't it?

Personally I loathe Golarion and it's what drove me to put many hours into building a less ridiculous, more pared down world of my own.

My GM, on the other hand, loves Golarion and refuses to leave it for anything else.

>>29775125
Yea. It's a very pleasant casting system to use though banned in way too many cases, sadly.

>>29775190
I don't know shit about the setting nor do I care about it. Fantasy hodgepodge settings universally suck.

>>29775179
Please don't. I'm just surprised is all.

>>29775190
>Personally I loathe Golarion and it's what drove me to put many hours into building a less ridiculous, more pared down world of my own.
You're doing a great work.

>>29775219
Protip: Anyone who bans psionics outside of 2e (where it was genuinely overpowered) is That DM and not worth playing with.

>>29775169
Okay, I kind of don't think that really fits. Even ki is usually fluffed as using tapping into the natural power of the world and body of the user and in a world where magic is all around it make sense. Psychic powers are too science-y in my mind.

>>29775242
>Protip: Anyone who bans psionics outside of 2e (where it was genuinely overpowered) is That DM and not worth playing with.
WISH I HAD A CHOICE ANON.
WISH I HAD A CHOICE.

>>29775258
Then play a wizard and completely break the game over your knee.

>>29775235
>You're doing a great work.
What do you mean?

>>29775257
What exactly makes them science-y? I hear this all the time, and I'm not sure what makes using magic from inside of you more science-y than using magic form your environment or a deity.

>>29775257
There's absolutely nothing "science-y" about psychic powers. Scifi-y, maybe, but "science-y" is definitely the wrong word here. Especially when talking about D&D psionics which are just a kind of magic and don't even pretend to be otherwise.

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>>29775013
some guys posting on /tg/, anon. and perhaps he was jocking, or trying to troll a bit.

anyway, any ranged options for a TOB like character in this one ? I'd really like one day to make a ToB class/ Soul bolt mix.
> pic related

>>29775317
>>29775301
They are generally portrayed as science in media rather than relying on a form of magic existing all around. Untapped potential of the brain, peak human abilities, evolution or mutations as opposed to spiritual or supernatural energy.

>>29775301
>>29775317
Probably because it's a more abstract idea that springs from a modern perspective on things. Think about it.

>Martial power is the oldest and most sacred form of art: just beating the shit out of something.
>"Magic" is anything that you don't understand or that isn't natural.
>Divinity is favor of the gods, or abilities granted through spirituality such as those of the monk.

Psionics involves a relatively modern understanding of the brain and mind, abstract ideas like projection of will, etc. It's not really rooted in folklore like everything else.

Warriors, wizards, clerics and even druids have an immense amount of history and cultural backing. Psionics is the child of comic books. It's no wonder people feel like it doesn't fit or is off-putting.

>>29775301
because that's the name given to magic in soft SiFi where there is magic, thus some considered that psi powers are SiFI. Sad, really.

>>29775374
Right, sci fi. They are no more sciency than wizard magic is -- which does progress through learning, study, experimentation, etc. and can be governed by science (its repeatable and testable).

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>>29775242
Or they were frustrated with it when a player used options from it incorrectly. I viewed psions as overpowered when having to deal with them the first time, as the player was pouring 60+ power points into their powers at level 10 or so. It wasn't until much later that I realized that the power points one can spend cap at their manifestor level.

Some times it's about context; Tome of Battle, Psionics, Incarnum; it's easy to see them as OP if you don't actually get how they work or understand the context of the system's mechanics.

I'm going to take all the psion classes and call them mind-mages. Now they are fantasy.

>>29775389
>It's not really rooted in folklore like everything else.

I GUARANTEE you that the awesome psionic warfare in the Mahabharatha predates any D&D pertinent myth you can name.

Not to mention psionics were in Middle Earth (telepathy, dominating will, general mind fuckery) and they were a lot more cleanly equivalent than anything like a wizard or sorcerer.

Arcane casters really don't have any kind of history or cultural backing at all.

>>29775389
>so monofocused on European folklore he can't see how psionics uses a grab bag of Indian folklore instead

>>29775448
I was interested in psionics recently, stop making psionics even cooler.

>>29775448
This. Psi is Siddhies. more or less.

So what's the opinion so far?
Strong? Weak?

>>29775583
currently the opinion seems to be that psionics and Indian mythology are awesome

>>29775441
I think another reason people mistake psionics for sci-fi is they tend to either be explained by genetics, or that's what people leap to as their explanation.

>>29775447
>>29775448
Oh, you guys play in India/with Indians/were raised in Indian culture? That's cool but me and my players don't know about and couldn't give less of a shit about mythology from the other side of the world. What the fuck is a Mahabharatha? That's the very definition of foreign. I didn't realize I need a degree in Southeastern Asian Mythology to properly understand a third party roleplaying game supplement.

Also I'd argue arcane casters have a place in our evolving culture. Magic was originally some kind of weird, unexplainable force that the average human couldn't grasp. But as things previously explained by magic began to be explained by science, that made the leap to our cultural consciousness. We began to feel that anything can be explained in a scientific manner and thus mastered, much like the modern idea of arcane magic.

I'd also say that appearances of telepathy and dominating will are more akin to the original meaning behind the word magic and similar. Such things were commonly associated with witchcraft and before that, character ideas like the völva.

>>29775637
> That's cool but me and my players don't know about and couldn't give less of a shit about mythology from the other side of the world.
Then shut the fuck up and don't talk about what is or isn't fantasy you inbred piece of shit.

>>29775650
Whoa there, someone shit in your curry? I never said it wasn't fantasy, only that folks find psionics to be weird or foreign because it has no real history in the West. Trying to refute that with, "Nuh uh, it's tops in Indian mythology," doesn't really help your point.

>>29775614
>currently the opinion seems to be that psionics and Indian mythology are awesome
Quote for epic truth.

>>29775678
If the argument is whether it's scifi or fantasy, then saying it doesn't count as fantasy because it's foreign fantasy is silly.

If the argument is that you don't like it because it's something you're not used to, that's fine. But you should always diversify your mythology.

So if Psionics are just another form of magic and they do things like make magic swords, telepathy and telekinesis then how come they need to work on a different set of rules to say a Sorcerer who can use magic sword making, telepathy and telekinesis spells naturally? what makes them so different that they run on a different form of magic?

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>>29775614

>>29775745
It's not magic. It's not about understanding the outside arcane world. It's about understanding yourself.

>>29775737
>If the argument is whether it's scifi or fantasy, then saying it doesn't count as fantasy because it's foreign fantasy is silly.
I never said it wasn't fantasy. I merely provided an explanation as to why people of the West are more inclined to consider it science fiction, or at least apart from fantasy. Personally, I don't care about it either way, but you haven't bothered to refute my explanation as to why others don't find it very fitting.

>But you should always diversify your mythology.
Why?

>>29775678
Arcane magic doesn't have a history in the West either, what's your point?

>>29775745
Because it comes from inside the body instead of outside.

>>29775799
I'm not sure, but basically you're saying, "They are right, because they are ignorant of the facts." What's the point of defending what people believe if it's based on falsehoods?

>>29775799
>as to why others don't find it very fitting.
It boiling down to "these other guys are uneducated retards who kneejerk" is not something anyone with a brain will accept.

OP here. I did not expect this thread to become all out discussion about psionics. Oh well,when i make another thread tomorrow maybe there will be some discussion about the material provided. Not complaining though you guys are always entertaining.

>>29775812
>Also I'd argue arcane casters have a place in our evolving culture. Magic was originally some kind of weird, unexplainable force that the average human couldn't grasp. But as things previously explained by magic began to be explained by science, that made the leap to our cultural consciousness. We began to feel that anything can be explained in a scientific manner and thus mastered, much like the modern idea of arcane magic.
I disagree. I think arcane magic as we see it today (i.e. Vancian magic) is just an attempt to frame concepts previously associated with magic (the unknowable, the supernatural, the unexplainable) into a framework more familiar to modern audiences (everything can be measured, everything can be explained by science) and especially to a game that wants to allow players to reliably control magic.

>>29775839
I don't recall ever defending them either, but I also don't see why you're so deadset on everyone having to love psionics and/or Indian mythology.

Personally I don't care much for Indian mythology because I feel it is too abstract and intertwined with philosophy. I also find a lot of the imagery to be too weird or abstract. But as I've said, I don't care about psionics either way.

>>29775848
Why does everyone have to be aware of all cultures and all mythologies at all times in all games and love them all equally? And if not all, where do you draw the line? Is Indian mythological tradition a special case? Why?

Why do people have to like Indian mythology?

>>29775441
i think this is pretty much right. It's about presentation and they've got it wrong in this case. A fantasy/mythological world should have its own language but psionics use modern pseudoscience terms and it seems out of place in a world where the rest of the language is quite different.

>>29775920
They don't have to love it, they just don't have to be dumb enough to claim they are correct in calling it scifi because they are ignorant of its source.

>>29775920
>Why do people have to like Indian mythology?
You're not an intolerant racist are you anon?

>>29775881
Well, IIRC, the dev said he plans to include some stuff for Psionics in it, so... It's sorta on topic, I guess?

>>29776003
>Everyone has to know everything about everywhere or they're dumb.
Liberal arts major detected.

>>29776003
If it was presented as coming from that source instead of from pseudoscience more commonly associated as being scifi then you'd have a point but psionic classes don't have Indian mythology in their naming.

>>29776028
Stormfaggot detected.

>>29776067
Ah I meant disciplines not classes.

>>29776067
Holy shit, all this bitching about slight degrees of presentation.

>>29776163
>he disagrees with me
>he must be a villain from somewhere different and scary
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

>>29776208
Pretty much, yeah. From this thread I have learnt that Psionics are spiritual beings who gain their powers from inward reflection rather than the actual physical structure of their brains.

>>29776333
/tg/ is always helpful.
>>29775340
>some guys posting on /tg/, anon. and perhaps he was jocking, or trying to troll a bit.
Well it started a good discussion.

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>>29775072

Golarion literally has a country filled with barbarians fighting space robots. The "Western collective consciousness" can go fuck itself is a guy making a blade from his mind is too much of a stretch by comparison.

>>29775920
>Why do people have to like Indian mythology?
you don't HAVE to, but people who like psionics and Hindu mythology find the connection awesome.

Now, inserting psionics in your games is a matter of fluff. If you don't like psionics as presented, change the terms into something you like. Mechanically speaking, they're varied and balanced.

That and, just so you know, people should stop thinking of fantasy as merely european.
In fact, people should stop thinking of fantasy as necessarily derived from our world. Not even Tolkien was so "castles and knights" as some fantasy authors/GMs are these days.

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>>29776578
>VIVE LA REVOLUTION!

>>29775745
Why would all magic need to be the same?

This is great, dude.

Thanks!

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>>29776578

I mean seriously, look at this shit.

>>29776578
Doesn't it have weird technologically advanced planets too in the fluff or am I wrong? The more I learn about Golarion the more I dislike it as a whole but if you pick and choose parts and ignore the rest its not so bad.

>>29775745
Because, unlike arcane casting, Psionic mechanics are simple (and in my opinion, intuitive), the powers are varied, balanced and classes as a whole seem to have a decent degree of game design (this one goes for Dreamscarred press, not as much as the classic 3.5 psionics)
You can have full psionic/magic transparency (as its presented) or tweak it as you wish. GMs should find a way to say "yes" instead of jumping at the "no"

>>29772158
Is this final? or is just the beta versions with a better presentation? in any case, i downloaded it, and i love it

>>29776705
so Numeria is the region of "metal as fuck" ?
I like it

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>>29776705

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/robot/robot-myrmidon

>>29776705
I was going to say "that's an enitirely different world and system." Then I checked the spelling of Numenera.

Who thought this was a good idea?

>>29776712
If you were to eliminate casters from pathfinder and replace them with the psionics would it be balanced (actually know next to nothing about Pathfinder.)

>>29776774

I might have liked it if it wasn't literally right next door to "Typical Medieval Country with Competing Noble Houses"-land and "Backwater Eastern Europe".

>>29774667
>guy running the game doesn't want to have to learn a new rules expansion
>might not feel that it fits flavor wise
>might be worried about rules abuses
>Fuck them!
Right.

>>29776712
Psionics sound better than other magic users in my opinion. I don't mean better in a in-game sense but... well I just fucking hate Vancian magic. I'd refluff their names to sound more mystical thought.

>>29776851

>might be worried about rules abuses

If that's the case they would be better served banning Wizards, Druids, and Clerics.

>>29776578
Get rekt. Numeria is awesome.

>>29776935

Point out where I said it wasn't.

>>29776828
It would certainly be a tremendous step in the right direction, anyway. True balance really necessitates giving the martial classes a leg up in terms of utilty and versatility, but replacing all traditional full casters with psionics (refluffed or not, according to your flavor preference) does a pretty good job of fixing that end of the imbalance.

>>29777030
Will it be hard to balance the martials?

>>29776871
I like Vancian magic for wizards, and wizards only. Using it for other classes just feels dumb to me.

Wizards, I can see it working as a form of ritual magic. I've always preferred to fluff wizards as performing ritual spells in advance that set up a lingering "charge" (if you will) that can later be set off with a simple trigger. The main ritual is your spell preparation, and "casting" the spell is really just triggering the effect you set up earlier. With that fluff model, the Vancian mechanics more or less make sense. Maybe would make more sense with a more fluid system of determining how many spells you can prepare (more of a spell points system allocated based on spell level rather than a fixed number of spells at each level), but I can accept that as a reasonable level of abstraction for the sake of simplicity and game balance.

Other kinds of casters, though. The Vancian mechanics just make no sense to me for their fluff.

>>29776828
In a way, yes. It would mean the players have a pool of choices where they aren't that far away from each other, Psionics are powerful (a Psion is equivalent to a Sorcerer) yet balanced, and psionic options are straight upgrades for some classes, and psionics are meant to cover everything magic can do, without going off-rails, so you have everything covered in an efficient manner.

In a way, no, because it's an overly-simplified way to adress the problem, and not all casters are going to break the game (You can keep the Sorcerer, Magus, Alchemist, and maybe the Oracle) and then there's the problem of unfocused(Monk) or overfocused (Cavalier) classes and stupid siderules (like size modifiers, retarded numbers in high level monsters, hp bloat, ect)

In my experience, unless the Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Summoner decides s/he wants to fuck up your campaign (or does not know it can do that, in which case they should NOT be playing those classes anyways) you'll be fine

>>29777076
Path of War + Complete Psionics = Balanced player options in pathfinder

However, it can't fill all the niches. Paladins and Alchemists are orphaned now, for example.
It's best to add them and tell players they are balanced casters and cool martials, but keep the Core/Base options open for them.

>>29777291
That works for 3e but we don't know for sure how PoW will work in the end. If it does however, it'll be balanced and we can spam SKRs twitter with it saying "u mad bra?"

>>29777076
Somewhat hard, yes. Martials have several major hurdles to overcome:

1) Lack of noncombat utility. Most martial classes get fairly few skills, and even for those that do have a good amount of skill points and selection of class skills, skills alone can only take you so far out of combat. You really need ways to get special abilities that go beyond bog-standard skill use.

2) Lack of in-combat flexibility. Most martial classes don't have too much difficulty keeping up in combat, but doing so generally requires extensive focused investment in a single signature trick or tactic. When that option is off the table for one reason or another, the martial character's competency plummets sharply. \Conversely, casters require little focused investment to do anything well, and generally what investments they do make are quite broadly applicable compared to what martials need. A martial takes Weapon Focus and gets a minor bonus with a single specific weapon; a caster takes Spell Focus and gets a minor bonus with a very broad category of spells, or takes a metamagic feat that can be applied to just about any spell. Fixing this end of things would require overhauling combat feats to condense lengthy chains (so martials don't have invest the majority of their feats just on one thing), and giving martial classes more horizontal progression -- that is, abilities branching out to new areas rather than solely advancing their one central trick.

3) Lack of options to deal with traits and tactics common in opponents, particularly high-level ones and spellcasters. While a caster can typically come up with a spell to deal with any given scenario, there are many areas where a martial character is just SoL. IF the martial character is able to deal with these things at all, it tends to require an exorbitant feat tax (which usually still ends up being less effective than a spell anyway) or reliance on magic items or friendly spellcasters. Flight is a good example of this kind of thing -- melee-focused characters will either need to get magical flight from an item or caster, or resort to plinking away with a backup weapon they haven't invested enough in to be appropriately effective with (see #2). Ranged characters have it a bit better, though if the flyer also happens to be a caster there are several ways that even they can be shut down. Invisibility and other forms of concealment also fit this category. Invisibility is actually the easiest to handle, since you can at least get around that with a little cleverness (throwing flour around and such), but things like Blur/Displacement and Mirror Image also screw martials over terribly, and there's generally not much a martial can do about such effects without magical aid.

>>29777580
Honestly, if 3e didn't fuck with the stats, we could've kept the 2e skill system which was much simpler. Roll, apply mod. Is it under your stat? You succeed.

>>29777475
PoW will work fine, just like Tome of Battle did.

SKR is not worth our time. Because we're too busy being effective unarmed warriors and having fun without riding on his shitty game design.

>>29777624
That's why he should be harassed and insulted to breaking point until he breaks down in tears and quits his job. His design philosophies are, and I say this without irony, objectively bad and I would hire the man just so I could give him impossible jobs, fire him, and anyone who asks for a reference will be told "He refused to work with others, couldn't complete simple tasks, and didn't use coasters."

>>29777672
>and didn't use coasters.

That basically even disqualifies him from unemployment benefits

>>29777672
The damage is done, though. Let's just hope nobody else hires him.

so i guess no one will be using barbarian, paladin or fighter ever again.

>>29778580
Good fucking riddance.

>>29778741
really? barbarian and paladin are iconic. It kind of sucks to see them being completely outclassed like this. Even worse if you want to play one, but cant because you'll be completely outclassed by Maneuver man!!

>>29778910
Palying a melee combatant in a fantasy world is fucking stupid unless you're going for animu energy sword slash attacks. It's the equivalent of going to a system about gunfights and complaining your unarmed civilian can't take on enemy tanks. It's just fucking stupid and whiny. The only way that fighters were worthwhile in earlier editions were that they got hoards of little npc fighters to die for them in battle.

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>>29778910
Barbarian didn't exist in any form you think of them until 3E.

>>29778910
>It kind of sucks to see them being completely outclassed like this.
Maybe those classes should've not been shit instead. Why shackle martial adepts for the sake of classes that could make the game better by not existing?
>but cant because you'll be completely outclassed by Maneuver man!!
Except you'd be outclassed by monsters and spellcasters anyways, so the point is moot.

>>29778910
Paladin is not ouclassed by Path of War at all, and the Barbarian can easily catch up with minor additions or better Rage Powers (but can still contribute in it's area of expertise) It's the fighter and Monk that have been replaced, and in my opinion, the Cavalier too.

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>>29779006

i looked at the beta of this a couple weeks ago and it felt really really weak. and the warlord-ish type's recovery mechanic was just. goofy and silly.

>>29777291
Dream scarred actually has conversions to psionic for all base classes, including paladins. They smite aberrations and psionics.

>>29780698
Whoa shit that's sexy as hell. Psionic paladins.... HNNGHGHHHH

>>29780721
It's a neat book. It has some really delicious feat options. Some of the psionic re-built core classes work better than others. Also included at the Forgeborn -- I'll give you one guess what these are -- and the Norals, which are humanoids infected with a psionic creature called a dreamscar.

Oh, there's also a ton of new stuff for the other scionic classes, including a really badass soulknife archtype called the feral heart, which basically turns you into motherfucking Wolverine and the Crystal Warror that turns your Aegis' suit into a badass suit of psychokinetic crystal.

Best part about the Purifier is the rename of smite. SMITE THE UNCLEAN. You also have Gaeans (druids), Pack Leaders (rangers), Raging Beast (barbarians), Thoughtsinger (bards), and more!

Oh, and for people bitching about Psionics not fitting thematically, the book Ultimate Psionics or Psionics Complete, whatever the name, has an entire list on possible ways to integrate psionics with magic or even replace it. I personally drop all divine and arcane casters from PF and run pure-psionics games now. Works like a charm, and also makes space opera -extremely- doable.

Would provide the pdf, but internet's being a dick.

https://mega.co.nz/#!MZtTFRCI!nHvkuyk66nepjdh7lIjw05ZwDIKRs0ecU6fd9VrwwgI

Yup. Psionics + ToB/PoW = WIN all day every day. If you don't play it, stat it and see how you love the options it gives you.
Make party caster a Sorceror or witch and you're all settled without anyone breaking the game or lagging behind.

>>29780721
Honestly, of the two paladin options they presented in the book, the racial archetype for Duergar was better.
Its a paladin who whilst lawful good still, does not root out evil (as much), but rather roots out chaos. Someone who fights to keep the world safe from unknowable creatures beneath the bowels of the earth (or so they believe) and constantly whistles a tune to supress the great darkness that will consume the world.

>>29777120
>Other kinds of casters, though. The Vancian mechanics just make no sense to me for their fluff.
It is very soulless and, for me, takes away from what I look for in a fantasy game.

>>29781252
A pretty good example of just how flexible the system is. I wanted to make a slightly egotistical, showy swordsman. A man who is all pomp and gallantry while still being exceptionally talented with a blade. I was capable of making a very effective version of such as a wilder. Basically the psionic sorcerer.

Hey did anyone else purchase the path of war subscription on the paizo website? Its updated to include the warder now, but suddenly i can't download it any more, it just infinitely personalizes.

> all this Psi love and enthusiasm
Wilder Warblade.
Do it.
DO IT!

>>29781255
Yeah, the Sleeper's Guardian was an incredibly badass paladin. Though, to be fair, that's also because a lot of the racial archetypes in general were really neat. It's a little silly, but I love the Forgesteed Rider. Warforged on Warforged mounts which actually also gets the challenge bonuses as well as useage of all of your psionic feats.

>>29781203
I generally encourage Sorc, Divine and Psi. Don't do much Wizarding anymore in our group personally.
The odd magus can come too.
It fits because Psionics are a gift of long forgotten gods that were overthrown.

>>29772554
>>29772783
So much about your thread being forgotten, friend anon. NOT ON OUR WATCH.

>>29781500
Of course not. Dreamscarred Press is pretty much the only good thing Pathfinder can be thanked for. And even then, it's effectively a replacement.

>>29781583
> dreamscarred takes over Paizo's dev section
I'd be so hard.

>>29774852
>Why do you think that ? A guy that is so good with swords that he can create one with his mind, mastering the concept of Blade, the very platonician idea of Sword, makes no sense in the fluff of a place where you have dragons, gods, creatures from other planes, demons, and so on and so forth...
I am
>>29772459
Thanks for saying it better than I could have ever HOPED to do.
This place is great.
...should I feel bad for derailing this into Psionics discussion? Sorry.

>>29781716

>dreamscarred press hires SKR

>>29781716
No, it's best to stay separate. Otherwise the stupidity might infect them. Either they make their own game or they make 3rd party content to fix and vastly improve Paizo's assgarbage.

>>29781391
you mean Warlord -It's also based off CHA so it's totally valid.

>>29781394
>Forgesteed Rider
If your mount isn't a chopper, you're doing it wrong.

I personally like the duergar racial trait that turns them into Aberrations. It's very powerful, and flavorful. Imagine a Duergar with an seemingly normal beard, then it moves and has concealed tentacles and other aberrational fuckery.

Ultimate Psionics is awesome.

>>29781803
I'll come to your house and slap you with a fish.
Repeatedly.

>>29781839
Could only be better if there was a duegar cavalier that rode their beards.

>>29781839
PsiDuergar already constantly have their flesh twitch.
Like the regular non abberation ones seem to have their flesh constantly moving under their skin.
I like to think the Abberation trait heightens these things, not something as overt as tentacles, but rather the beard that looks like hair... it doesn't feel like it. Also is it just you or is he constantly sweating? Why is his sweat so sticky?
None of that would really bother you if not for the fact his eyes have two pupils. Normally you can't see them, but sometimes when he looks down to the ground, you can see at the top of his eye is another pupil.

>>29781839
>you mean Warlord -It's also based off CHA so it's totally valid.
Warlord works too I suppose. SHOOOOOUTS OF MINDRAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-
MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNDDDDDDDRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEE!!!!!

>>29779006
>It's the equivalent of going to a system about gunfights and complaining your unarmed civilian can't take on enemy tanks
civilians cant even take on cats

A shadowrun punch-adept, though...

One of my players wants to play a character inspired by Indrick Boreale from soulstorm.
He wants to play essentially a dumb as bricks righteous zeal type who speaks like Boreale.
I promised him I'd look into trying to find a way to represent "Devestating Defensive Deep Strikes" in the game.
Does anyone know of a Psionic or Path of War ability that gives you either
>A summon ability that deals damage in the area around where the creatures appear
>The ability to teleport or jump and deal damage where you arrive, preferably also able to share this with party members
>Call down rocks or something from the sky

>>29781929
All valid ideas. Again, it has a really good flavor.
This said, Norals and Forgeborn... the races are fine, but their visual representations are terrible. Not that the art is bad or anything, but their design is too... generic? as in, i don't imagine members of their race to be any different from how they are portrayed, and i think that's a negative.

Of course, its a matter of fluff and imagination.

I am suddenly overcome by the urge of making a full psionics/Martials game in a post-apocalyptic game, i don't know why

>>29782082
Norals look relatively varied throughout the book, but yeah they are somewhat similar looking.

Forgeborn however have tons of fluff and alternate racial traits about how no two fit together the living and construct parts quite the same way and many are made out of different materials.

>>29782082
Do it, mang. I use the same for space opera all day and all night. Also, Forgeborn can go the same as Warforged or even something closer to cyborgs. Norals just rely on a bit of work with the dreamscar.

Also, that terrible art in Psionics Unleashed. So glad they got better art for the new books.

I've heard some people say the Tactician is underpowered, is this true?

>Silver Crane and Black Seraph are still only available through organizations rather than Archetypes
Ugh.

>>29782382
Tactician's abilities kind of suck, and Vitalist does a better job.

>>29777120
>performing ritual spells in advance that set up a lingering "charge" (if you will) that can later be set off with a simple trigger.
I was under the impression that that was what wizards actually did. They weren't 'memorizing' a spell by learning it, they just it all set up and set it off later.

>>29782576
Really? Because they seem to have stronger psionic powers.
>>29782584
That is how scrolls work, i know that much.
A scroll is a spell that's 99% complete. By finishing the 1%, the spell goes off.

>>29782576
Fucking Vitalists. Sadists with the feat that slows you to force unwilling participants into your collective. And then just taking the last surviving bandit, holding him down, and shedding all of your wounds and diseases onto him.

>>29782624
>Not playing a Duergar Lifemonger
>Not punching your allies in the face to heal other allies
>Not using Unwilling Participant on your own party so that later if you want to transfer healing between them and they don't agree to it they have to pass a will save or you take that healing anyway

>>29779587
Replacing the Fighter and Monk really doesn't hurt anyone, since they suck horribly. There's no saving them without completely overhauling the classes.

If you want a good Fighter or Monk, you'll have to play 2e or 4e. I suggest giving both a try, but if anyone wants to stick with 3e or its derivatives, that's their choice.

...Sorry, kinda rambled off topic. Basically: I'm in agreement with you.

I know a DM who's hosting an evil campaign right now who wants me to play a recurring antagonist.
Obviously I'll be a bit ahead in levels and gear etc as I'm a villain (hero i guess? after all i am the good guy) not a PC.
They do have casters i think, so would a high level warlord be able to do anything about that?
I want to use the Silver Crane style from the power organizations beta, which means i can have a stance with permanent protection from evil.

>>29782890
>There's no saving them without completely overhauling the classes.
As someone who loves Monks and is currently homebrewing them(i'm almost finished), i say fixing the monk is mostly a matter of common sense.

>>29782890
Monk basically needs to be 100% obliterated and rebuilt from the ground up using Swordsage, Cleric and Stalker as inspiration, then making all attacks touch range. The result would be like Final Fantasy Tactics monk with a strong, active and effective counter against magic and a well-grounded support role.

>>29782976
>would a high level warlord be able to do anything about that?
How high level are we talking here? because a level 17 warlord could deal twice the hp a wizard might have around that level as damage in one turn. (I haven't done exact math yet, but at a glance it doesn't seem to far from it)
On lower levels it MIGHT not kill it completely and just hurt them horribly and inflict negative conditions in it

basically, yes. A warlord can do something about that.

Battle Bump

>>29783312
I think they might have about 5 players who are level 4ish, so i would presumably start out level 7-8ish with superior gear.

>>29783192
>>29783208
I've been wanting to remake the Monk as an unarmored, spontaneously casting cleric (in a way.) Limited spell list that's mostly buffs and damage inflicting spells, which they can spontaneously cast when they hit with an unarmed attack (one per unarmed attack.) And buff unarmed strike a bit for them. And since casting AND AC would come from WIS, they could afford to dump DEX.

Completely drop Flurry and Stunning Fist as they are. Flurry gets replaced by actually having GOOD damage scaling and full BAB.

Stunning Fist gets replaced a "fuck you, caster" ability, I think. Something with a DC that can actually fuck with a target.

Though I hear the PF Paladin uses a similar mechanic for burning spells with their Smite... I don't know, since Paladin never interested me and my system mastery is actually rather low. Same reason I haven't started homebrewing. Well, that and having other projects.

>conspicuous blisfun
Yes, captcha. A useable monk does sound conspicuously fun.

>>29783814
>Stunning Fist gets replaced a "fuck you, caster" ability, I think. Something with a DC that can actually fuck with a target.
Crystal Dragon Palm Interference: On a DC of 14 your hands strike the target and interrupt the flow of arcane forces through your target's body and soul for 1d8 rounds. Casters affected gain -10 on their next cast attempt.

>>29784250
You mean concentration check not "cast attempt" and you should also have it force a concentration check on the next cast.
Plus the DC should be 10+wis modifier+1/2 monk level and it should be against fort save.

>>29784365
You know, I was just about to ask if he meant something like that.

>>29783748
well, that's not high level at all.
If you have a group you can command, Golden Lion will wreck their shit like there's no tomorrow.
Besides, casters before level 8 can't do much. A couple of strong tricks at most.
You can Initiate up to level 4 Maneuvers.
The best style to deal with a group would be Solar Wind. That style coupled with guerrila tactics is like a TPK in a box.
However, if you like it up close and personal, you have to pick two weapons(Thrashing Dragon), a single weapon(Scarlet Throne), or a two-handler(Primal Fury)
Scarlet Throne is great for defenses -Your saves practically run off Sense Motive with it.
Primal Fury is full of Fuck You since Pounce is a level 2 Maneuver -and it gets more brutal from there
Thrashing dragon in this case could be better if you had a party (so you could full attack with more ease). It does, however, have a couple of tricks (Flick of the Wrist/Sweeping Tail) that could help you control your enemies.

All in all, try to overwhelm your opponents before they do so to you.

>>29784250
you could
you know
give Stunning Fist a partial effect (like Staggered or Nauseated)if you want something to fuck up casters. It already targets Fortitude, and it's useful against non-casters too.

>>29784430
>>29784365
Yea sorry I'm not very coherent right now.
>should also have it force a concentration check on the next cast.
Plus the DC should be 10+wis modifier+1/2 monk level and it should be against fort save.
Absolutely. For a rolled number of rounds the magic dude is going to have to focus real hard or nothing will work.
>>29784581
Could work yea. Also something that simply destroys enchantments upon contact.

So I just got to reading through the Warlord book. Kinda like it, enough that I think a Fighter I'm playing right now would benefit from the class.

Am I crazy, or does this book actually look like it makes martials fun?

>>29784665
I'd recommend dropping it to maybe 1d6 or 1d4 rounds. Maybe 1d4+1. Otherwise it can pretty effectively shut down any caster for the entire encounter, right? I'm afraid I can't check the math right now to be sure, so I'll leave it to the anons that know more than me.

>>29784665
You know, if you want to interrupt casters that much, the Monk can still Grapple them.
I'm all for buffing the kung-fu guys against magic, but you need to think what's appropiate and flavorful. Not to mention that overspecialization in a single kind of enemy is one of the main failings of the monk, and this is more of the same.
As it stands, it looks like you want to fuck casters because fuck casters, not because the monk could have any real use out of it.

Just so you remember, the problems are the casters IN THE PARTY, not the ones you FIGHT.

http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Monk,_Tome_%283.5e_Class%29

This is the Monk my group uses. Best Monk I've ever seen. Plays it with Pathfinder. Build a spring attack build with it? Finally a use for high speed. Its like playing a mounted charger on foot.

>>29775242
1e AD&D yes. Back then it was the original Gestalt.

Not 2e. It was kinda more powerful than the other casters at level 2-3 [not 1, definitely not 5th or higher] but that's all. Don't forget that the more powerful powers you got earlier had a significant chance of NOT WORKING, a 5% chance of BACKFIRING, and you may or may not have had enough points left from a failure to try a second time that day!

The best part about disintegration at level 3 was that you were probably going to survive casting it. The worst part was its odds of working on anybody else.

>>29784838
>As it stands, it looks like you want to fuck casters because fuck casters,
No, not at all. I like Casters, I just feel that the monk's support role could be significantly enhanced by allowing them to keep magical beings from geeking their dudes.
Rest of the post I can agree with.
>>29784771
Truth.

>>29784838
They have jawbreaker in pathfinder for casters and neckbreaker/bonebreaker/crushing blow for martials but they will never work because by the time you get them the DC for saves won't be enough for it to work on most monsters/martials and undead/constructs and others are immune. That leaves you with straight up casters which you likely won't face many of and have ways of shutting you down.

>>29782665
We have one in the party. It's entirely possible for him to force collective system use on us.

On the other hand, I could punch enough holes to one-round him with half of my attacks five hundred feet away, and anyone else in the party could mince him even faster, so we all just trust each-other to do the profitable thing.

>>29785297
So will anyone with teleports or freedom of movement (like the ring) if anything's based on grappling.

>>29785549
More reasons why monks (and other martials) suck.

>>29784728
It's basically 3.5's Tome of Battle redone for Pathfinder with enough changes to avoid copyright nonsense.

So yes. Yes, it does.

>>29786282
I'm more asking "Is this book shit, or am I reading it wrong?" Like, would taking a Warlord dip on my Lore Warden Fighter be a good idea? Because it seems like a great idea.

>>29786282
Wait, Frank and K's Tome of Battle or Weeaboo Fittan Magic? Honestly, I'd be happy with either from DSP.

>>29786311
Better off going with Warder. They use INT for initiating, as opposed to Warlord's CHA

>>29786311
ToB (and by extension PoW) characters add half their levels in other classes to determine the highest level of maneuvers/stances they can learn. So yes, dipping works very well. Though PoW also lets you pick up maneuvers through a feat chain.

>>29786697
Frank and K don't have anything called Tome of Battle, though they have a Tome of Fiends and a Tome of Necromancy, and their works as a whole are generally called "The Tomes".

>>29786788
Ah, silly me. I lump the Tomes in and always forget their monks and fighters were in Dungeonomicon instead of another literal Tome.

>>29786788
Original ToB also let you nab maneuvers via feats. The advantage of dipping is just that you can get a bunch of maneuvers at once.

Dipping PoW warlord is even better for fighters than ToB warblade, thanks to the bonus feat at level 1. You're basically getting everything you'd want from a fighter level (full BAB and a bonus feat), PLUS a nice selection of handy maneuvers.

>>29786954
The PoW feats are a lot stronger though, granting you multiple maneuvers, stances, and a recovery mechanism.

>>29786788
>characters add half their levels in other classes to determine the highest level of maneuvers/stances they can learn.

Oh I'm gettin' ON that shit.

I'll have to write it up. Got a Lore Warden 6/Monk 1 AoO/Trip polearm fighter. Figure he might get some awesome use out of cool maneuvers, especially since I had no idea where I was going after level 7 with the build.

Hopefully the ToB will fill out those levels.

>>29781929
Is the abberation trait a racial thing or one PC's can pick?

>>29787082
Ooh, nice, I hadn't looked at the feats.

>>29787564
As long as you have your core feat needs more or less filled out, going with a PoW class for the rest should do you good. I would recommend going one more level in fighter to pick up another +2 CMB from lore warden (if you want to emphasize tripping; this is also good because it helps make up for the CMB you'd otherwise have gotten from progressing your weapon training in fighter) or another in monk for saves, evasion, and a bonus feat (if you think that would serve you better). That way your total non-martial disciple levels make an even number, so when you take your first level in warlord or whatever, your initiator level would be 5, giving you access to up to 3rd-level maneuvers and stances from the get-go. Otherwise you'd be starting from IL 4, giving you only 2nd-level maneuvers.

>>29787617
the Aberration racial trait is an optional racial trait for (Psionic)Duergar. It basically makes you count as both Humanoid and Aberration for the purposes of all effects as long as it's beneficial. This means, for example, you are effectively inmune to Charm/Dominate/Hold Person and other such spells that target humanoids only

>>29788624
Good call. The big part is running the info past my DM, though he should be ok with it seeing as I'm letting him run playtest classes in one of my games.

I like the teleport abilities although they seem a bit too hard to obtain.
>>29772459
This.

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Thinking of statting up a Warlord that's equal parts Don Quixote and a FFT Judge. A true hero of the LAW and a noble protector of the PEOPLE. Definitely going after Golden Lion, and expect to lead small gangs of JUSTICE-loving rabble while breaking out into song.

Very much related
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEnDOXmyU-o

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>>29779006

This thread has convinced me that ToB martials = Psionics = Win. Thanks, I never thought of this.
Can I hear stories of successful AND fun builds in active play?
>>29794539
> replying to 12 hour old bait.

I'd say Swordsage + Psychic Warrior might be better than Swordsage + Soulknife. Allows for more battlefield control altough it's not quite as deliciously fluffy as >>29774852
>A guy that is so good with swords that he can create one with his mind, mastering the concept of Blade, the very platonician idea of Sword,

>>29795162
Another concept that we need to see if it can done :
>a very angry guy. So angry he can shoot bullets from his eyes.
Aka a mix of barbarian, Soul bolt and Stalker/warlord to get some delicious Solar Wind.
Is that feasible ?

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>>29776710
The Pathfinder setting is basically a more edgy version of Disneyland.

You got Adventureland, Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Liberty Square, Naziland, Devil Naziland, Scientologyland, Zombieland, Orc Rapeland.

No Frontierland however, because fuck Gunslingers

>>29796142
...Red Latern?
Soul Bolt is not quite as powerful as required to crap out the damage required in this scenario. A couple requirements need to be houseruled down.
> Barbarian
Nah, vanilla Warlord + Soul Bolt is probably going to do what you want better here.
Warlord Wilder.

Heh, looks like we just got archived.
>>29781839
>>29781943
>>29796142
MIIIIIIIIIIIINNNDDDDDDD RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEE

Is that me, or the psi version of Bard is awesome ?
Thoughtsinger :
> still got spells.
>gain a collective
>enhance your team with your "songs" through theirs minds
> telepathy.
Damnit, I just have to reffluff the psi thing as an absolute control of his body and the power of the Voice, and I can at last play a Bene Gesserit !

>>29775637
>That's cool but me and my players don't know about and couldn't give less of a shit about mythology from the other side of the world. What the fuck is a Mahabharatha?
Kill yourself.

>>29797796
It's okay. Judging by that post time they were some idiot in the idiot part of the world during the idiot time of the day.

>>29797772
Of course it's awesome. It's not exciting me as much as the MINDRAGE and SO ANGRY I SHIT THOUGHT BULLETS concepts, but I love it nonetheless.

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>>29797772
Holy shit, it's an IPD hive.

I KNOW WHAT I'M PLAYING NEXT NOW

>>29796142
Try a Barbarian/Aegis (Crystal Warrior) with the Raging Hulk feat.

>>29797879
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSUaKHRz44
Dat sum Ar Tonelico?
Hyper weaboo female support part route = IS A FUCKING GO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OBrWYWurU0

>>29798121
'Course it is. Of course I'd probably have to do some refluffing (since lore and music aside, Ar tonelico is a weeaboo game for bloated manchildren).

It really is a pity (as I'll say every time it comes up) that they paired such an inventive setting and excellent backstory with waifu horseshit.

>>29798201
I don't really mind "waifu horseshit" myself, but if it violates your sensibilities I can respect that. Please do share your results in the future.

>>29797772
So why won't you create the Golden Path?

>>29788651
That's pretty neat.

>>29798261
I wouldn't say my sensibilities were violated (though the 'strip to power up' stuff in AT3 was a bad decision all around), it just makes me think about what could have been.

Anyway, should I ever get a chance to play this, I will indeed share my adventures.

>>29798296
because becoming a Half-Sandworm has such a high LA cost it is unfeasable.

Why use Tome of Battle when 4e exists?

>>29798351
Maybe these people are too busy to switch to a better system?

>>29797842
Check out Combat Wilders. They basically get little bursts of barbarian rage without any downsides whenever they manifest, as their emotional drive and passion turns their bodies into that of superhuman gods. Played a rakish swordsman with a large-sized bastard sword, powered by a mixture of his refusal to accept mediocrity and manly spirit. Cast a Swift action spell to buff your to hit, instantly gain your Combat Surge and get several free points of Str and Con, and even popping Psionic Focus to get a second attack as you push your body past physical boundaries with your raw GAR.

>>29798351
3e has some advantages over 4e, namely its flexibility.

>>29798351
Not the same, really.
Not the same and it doesn't have the same options.

>>29798341
Ah, alright then. You were using such strong language with such utter distaste that it seemed that you were personally offended on a deep level.
>Anyway, should I ever get a chance to play this, I will indeed share my adventures.
Looking forward to it.
>>29798877
Aww yes this sounds awesome.

>>29798888
This is still an arguable advantage, though, as 4e is perfectly flexible depending on a group's methods while still not requiring the amount of houseruling that 3.X necessitates.

In fact, the two most common houserules were even supported by developers, who admitted that it alleviates most of the problems associated with combat, ie the .5 fix for MM1 and MM2 and giving players Versatile Expertise fo free.

>>29798967
>>29798877
Wilder + Soulbolt.

>>29799015
Soulbolts are pretty neat, though I honestly prefer to keep them true or mix them with something other than Wilder.

>>29798967
It really is. Especially when you realize that you're in effect playing a sorcerer that's a front-line melee combatant. Built him both for using a Large bastard sword and a greatsword, build slightly depends on that. My level one attacks with both are still rather beastly.

>Greatsword
+8 to hit, 4d6 + 9 dmg

>Large Bastard Sword
+8 / +3 to hit, 2d8 + 9 dmg per hit

>>29777120

Gadgeteers preparing their devices. But this would need further refining.

>>29799088
>mix them with something other than Wilder.
Can you please tell me more of this?

>>29777120
>>29799149

And gadgeteers are non spell-casting, so I don't know if it would fit your spellcasting parameters.

Wow, the preface to this thing reads as one guy's rant against spellcasters:

"Some didn’t like it, and as those who would agree with the utility of this book would say it’s because “they don’t want fighter to have nice things.”"

Also, as per the original Tome of Battle, this thing is broke as shit. For instance, a ki ability for Stalker they can take at 3rd level that lets them for all enemy attacks to roll twice and take the worst for 1+wis rounds. Yeah, that's comparable to 10 feet of movement or an extra attack (other normal ki abilities.) You're taking an enemy from hitting you 1/3 of the time to 1/9th. It's not as good for a low AC or against certain foes with single bit to-hit attacks, but against minions you're basically unstoppable from a single ki point. It's a defensive ability most martial classes would kill for and here it's just one of many strong abilities from the class.

I was kinda excited to see another take on tome of battle that was a little better balanced, but once again this book is kinda masturbatory (oh god martial arts unnnnffff) and seems to have been built on the 'they're underpowered, let's break them instead' philosophy.

Just one guy's opinion. Barring extremely high level play, I think Pathfinder did a good job balancing martial and spellcasting classes. Not for dueling, but for general adventuring.

>>29799317
Not really. It's a jab at Paizo defs in particular, not spellcasters in general.
The rest of the post I'm sadly unable to address lest we funnel ourselves into old patterns of discourse once more.

>>29799317
SKR, go home.

>>29799317
You haven't considered that the standard ki abilities are, you know... shitty... have you. Of course you haven't.

You see NotFullCaster have something with power comparable to a spell and this is utterly unacceptable to you. Also crossbows should only hit as hard as water balloons, unless you're specialized in water balloons.

>>29799317
Stop talking about games you've not played.

>>29799317
I like how 5th level is extremely high level play.

>>29798967
Ha ha no, just being hyperbolic.

Was yea ra hartes ar tonelico van akata wis na glasden.

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>>29799317
Pretending to be retarded is still shitposting.

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>>29799317

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>>29775447
>Arcane casters really don't have any kind of history or cultural backing at all.
Someone doesn't know the historical document "Dr Strange." >:(

The "problem" with psionics is that it got grandfathered into science-fiction by one of the more influential editors of the golden age of SF, and a lot of people can't see past that. It's dumb. Psionics own. Crystals own. D&D was based on a whole bunch of this shit anyway - hollow earth, lost worlds, Velikovsky, dinosaurs everywhere. I'm honestly surprised no-one's worked the New Chronology into D&D - it would be a good way to explain away the bullshit "tack an 0 or two on the end" fantasy timelines.

>>29799317
Your opinion is uneducated and worthless. Kill yourself.

>>29800026

Seriously, how do people think
>Guys who spend all their time experimenting, whose abilities come from knowledge of the laws of physics and how to exploit them = Fantasy
> Guys who shoot raw energy through willpower = Science

>>29800561
D&D caused brain damage. No, really.

>>29800539
>>29800574
Kill yourself.

>>29800539
So can they get "Almost Unraped" too?

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>>29799317

>>29799154
Well, I particularly like the Raging Surge Wilder multiclassing with Barbarian for maximum angry.

>>29801983
Me = Erect.

>>29800973
My Parmesan is 100% "Almost Unraped"

So how's a metaforge work, if all your shit will be half the bonuses of what you'd have if you single classed or just bought a fucking weapon?

>>29799317
>complains about the devs noting that people who don't like ToB/PoW don't want the fighter to have nice things
>proceeds to validate that very claim by complaining about the classes in the book getting nice things

>>29802526
A later book had Practiced Spellcaster style feats for both aegis and soulknife. So you take both of those.

>>29799317
How about no?

Level 1 Fighter: Great at killing shit, high defenses against most things one is likely to face. Slight utility out of combat.

Level 1 Wizard: Decent at killing shit, godlike at killing minions. Tons of utility out of combat.

Level 10 Fighter: Decent at killing shit. Horrible defenses against most of what you're likely to fight [Low Saves, no SR, no natural DR, no Evasion, etc]. Still the same level of out of combat utility as level 1, only slightly better. ALL utility both in and out of combat comes from equipment.

Level 10 Wizard: Can fly, kill very effectively, can give self numerous defenses of various nature, can get around those same defenses in enemies, can teleport literally hundreds of miles, can summon creatures, can...........you get the point. Level 10 Wizard, full WBL, decent access to new spells? Could have literally over 500 magic abilities by level 10. And that is only HALF WAY to the level cap.

Seriously just kill yourself. Martial abilities are bound by physics, and "scale" while spells just sort of happen.

Break is a level 1 spell. Instantly destroys any medium object [or at least damages for harder materials like adamantium]. Yet the level 1 martial equivalent is NOT "Ignore Object Hardness with attacks" its "Ignore 1 point of hardness".

The mere fact that Monks gain "High Jump" for the awe inspiring ability to leap 5-10 feet more in a leap at the same level Wizards learn to Fly should prove just about everything you needed to know about the game being imbalanced.

>And for the record, good classes like the Tome Monk and Aegis respectively, get Ignore Hardness and Flight instead. No it doesn't imbalance the game even slightly. I've routinely played a Monk who can literally punch through anything if he wails on it long enough, and that has yet to make me God-King Game-Ruiner.

>>29803049
Not even slightly better at it, since the DCs are going up as fast or faster than his meager skill points allow him to keep up.

>>29804581
Well that just proves my point even more.

Hm, thinking of playing a soulknife in an upcoming campaign, my only question in this. Soulbolt or Feral Heart? That painful decision between Iron Man and Wolverine.

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>>29805247
Feral Heart and then multiclass into Stalker. Maximum amounts of rip and tear.

>>29805247
FERAL HEART.

>>29806025
...That fucking picture. Alright, definitely Feral Heart and likely multiclassing into either Stalker, Ninja, or Rogue. Christ, man, elves be scary.