Best to avoid real-world current religion
You don't want to know how much trouble I got into showing my players my character sketch for a Muhamad character

>>30827650
Christian religion these days is a bit separate from old school christian mythology.

It's why angels and cherubs are white people with togas and wings, and not the bizarre radiant alien creatures they were described as.

After all, angels covered themselves entirely with their wings in order to not burn out the eyes of anyone who looked at them.

Basically, if you want to steal some stuff from it for inspiration you probably can. After all, people use leviathans all the time, and that's technically obscure christian mythology.

>>30827684

>Christian religion these days is a bit separate from old school christian mythology. It's why angels and cherubs are white people with togas and wings, and not the bizarre radiant alien creatures they were described as.

It is worth noting though that in the gospels angels are described as men dressed in white who could be mistaken for beautiful humans.

This will be a good start, OP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Solomon

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>>30827650

>Best to avoid real-world current religion

>>30827631
>obscure christian mythology thread
Gospel of Eve. Look it up.

Most of it got burned though because it was too distasteful to the conservative clergy.

>>30827760
Go be a fedoralord elsewhere and cry about "oppression". As with any religion (even the lack of them)
It's a loud zealous minority that gives the rest a bad name

>>30827778

Considering there's about a paragraph and a half left of it, there's not much to work with.

>>30827631
Standard is to rip shamelessly from the Book of Enoch. Which has the advantage of being both fucking old and not, strictly speaking, canon in any church.

The real grievances against Jesus are stated by the learned author of Tela Ignea Satanœ (the fiery darts of Satan) to be two in number: 1st, that he had discovered the great Mysteries of their Temple, by having been initiated in Egypt; and 2nd, that he had profaned them by exposing them to the vulgar, who misunderstood and disfigured them. This is what they say:

"There exists, in the sanctuary of the living God, a cubical stone, on which are sculptured the holy characters, the combination of which gives the explanation of the attributes and powers of the incommunicable name. This explanation is the secret key of all the occult sciences and forces in nature. It is what the Hebrews call the Scham hamphorash. This stone is watched by two lions of gold, who roar as soon as it is approached. The gates of the temple were never lost sight of, and the door of the sanctuary opened but once a year, to admit the High Priest alone. But Jesus, who had learned in Egypt the 'great secrets' at the initiation, forged for himself invisible keys, and thus was enabled to penetrate into the sanctuary unseen.... He copied the characters on the cubical stone, and hid them in his thigh; after which, emerging from the temple, he went abroad and began astounding people with his miracles. The dead were raised at his command, the leprous and the obsessed were healed. He forced the stones which lay buried for ages at the bottom of the sea to rise to the surface until they formed a mountain, from the top of which he preached."

How about the classic Behemoth, Leviathan and Ziz?

Or monkfishes who are headshaved monks with tunic and tentacles.

Also giants, dragons, unicorns and many standar fantasy creatures are canon in eatly bibles.

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>>30827790
I smell butthurt

>Implying all of the coolest bits of mythology aren't from the old testament
Face it. Christianity is Judaism for casuals and also hippies.

>>30827790
pls. I've actually read the Torah and God is a fucking asshole.

>>30827790
Then I suppose you'd never use a golem on a fantasy game ever, or dragons for that matter, since they're all from real-world religion mythologies.

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The Bible is also full of badass characters.

>>30829165
Man, dragons are literally Satan according to Russian Orthodoxy.

>>30827790
Oh boy. Here we go!

Demiurg beliefs are funnay. Best read up on tinfoil hat Freemason Theories and maybe Daeniken. Though this is a somewhat different direction. Just read wikipedia on the earlier Christian sects, they had cool beliefs going on.

>>30827790

I find it funny how butthurt you can get from a post that doesn't even imply anything. Projecting much?

>>30828407
Giants as in the nephilim?
I love the concept of those.

>>30829248
Nephilim literally means "Fallen Ones". The name refers to both the angels who bred with men as well as the children they sired. Keep in mind that as angels are basically cosmic horrors this whole plotline is closer to Lovecraft's writing than to standard fantasy.

It is, like most of such myths, not canon and part of the Kabbalah - the jewish tradition of Mysticism, running parallel to Christian Gnosticism. Both have a lot of common concepts such as upper and lower realms or humans being able to work miracles by calling on angels.

Anyone else looking forward to Noah?
I wish the cool parts of the Abrahamic myths were seen in fiction more often, instead of just being stuck with the lame canon stuff. I guess it's easier to make fun stories out of dead religions than still living ones.

>>30828407
It's important to note that the Unicorn mentioned in the bible is nothing like your standard fantasy unicorn.

It wouldn't fit on the ark so Noah had to tie it onto the side.

Its horn was once mistaken for a mountain.

>>30829551
How big was this fucking ark?

>>30829511
It half looks neat, and half looks terrible. Which is a fun balance.

Definitely impressive the level of detail they've gone for. The ark not looking like a boat, the presence of Watchers, more than 2 animals.

>>30829561
450'x75'x30'

Yeah, that must have been hilarious.

Testament: Roleplaying in Biblical Times.

>>30829155
>Implying all of the coolest bits of mythology aren't from the old testament

someone hasn't read revelation

>>30827742
Time for IMPORTANT DISTINCTIONS
There are angels of lesser power who do resemble impossibly beautiful humans
Now where's my picture of the sephirot...

>>30829173
Samson cool as shit

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>>30830156
Couldn't find it so here's the life cycle of the Pfiesteria Piscicida

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>>30830210
Google is my friend

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The angels in Bayonetta were pretty rad

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>>30830248

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>>30830268

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>>30830275
I fucking hated these guys.

Use Gnostic text and Revelation, which may have been Gnostic in origin. They also believed in Sophia as a personification of the Holy Spirit. Also Asherah was an early female deity in Jewish belief, you could definitely use her since in the creation myth, the serpent was her pet, so to speak. If you really want something cool, the book of Enoch or the book Adam and Eve might be up your alley as well.

>>30830248
Also somewhat accurate
minus sexy god, of course

>>30830288
Yeah you just have to use the sword
You get a lower score but it does a gorillion times as much damage

>>30830288
>Not Gracious and Glorious

>>30831608
On non-stop there's really no difference between the two.

>>30830156
Angels have no shape, they appear as humans can conceive them. The burning bush was an angel, for example.

>>30830345
>gnostics
>not even more retarded than the catholics

>>30829155
The american depiction of Jesus as a love-everything hippie always confused me, it's like they never even read one of the gospels.

also
>believing the torah
>Jesus was an angry wizard

>>30832411

I don't think he's implying that Gnostics are not retarded, anon. OP is looking for a fantasy setting to play in, not a religion to follow. Gnosticism is twisted enough to make a fun game setting.

look into Byzantine empire stuff. They were early Eastern Orthodox and were really into magic, demons and monsters. Even way back in the day they thought certain items were cursed or blessed to give you powers. Hell, I think they thought Justinian was demon possessed because he walked around at night without a torch and talked to himself. They even had demon hunter hit squads try to assassinate him several times. One primary source wrote that he summoned Hell beasts that resembled dogs to protect himself.

>>30827650
Was your group comprised of sandfrican americans, or bleeding heart hippie shits?

Cherubs are metal as fuck. The entire angelic hierarchy is pretty cool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy

But of course, the most fun to adapt portion of Christian mythology is Legion. I never tire of Legion creatures or villains. Many-As-One was a brilliant version of this theme, and got me to use Cranium Rats in plenty of my campaigns.

>>30832500
Maybe, it just reads a lot like posts on /x/ that no one wants to know about.

Still, Gnostic Christianity pretty lame compared to plain Abrahamic religions.
Disregarding the modern idea of God in the west, the Abrahamic God is pretty much the single most interesting being ever thought of, the heavenly host has a shitload of cool stuff, saints are awesome, etc.
If you want a darker setting, the catholic concepts of demons and the devil, witches, magic, the (popular) inquisition (or even the historical one if you want a morally neutral setting) are all great inspiration.
The fall from heaven and the split of the host, the idea that other gods=fallen angels, God getting fed up with human bullshit, tolerating vast amounts of bullshit but going world-ending mad at disrespecting his authority, placing yourself above him, or daring to think your puny "magic" and bone-casting give you any hope of defying his will...

Honestly, the Bible is the greatest book ever written, it just reads like shit in English and is painfully slow at times.

And that's just sticking to Christianity, you can pretty much get twice as much stuff to work with when you take all 3 religions into equation, with a shitload of thematic variants.

When you take the Gnostic approach, it all just turns into hurr evil god, can't do shit, must ask daddy for everything, daddy is love, Jesus is totally good you guys, etc.
You may just as well base a setting on the Book of Mormon.

>>30832411
It's true that they can appear how they choose, but they're basically sapient constructs of divine will

Can someone please explain gnosticism for me?

>>30834211
according to gnostics, humans are trapped in the physical world by an imperfect "god", known as the demiurge. gnosticism teaches that humans should reject physical existence and aspire instead to reach the true spiritual reality, where the real god lives. some gnostics identify the demiurge as yahweh (the old testament god) while identifying jesus with the real god.

it's like the matrix basically.

>>30832781
>Seraphim (singular "Seraph"), mentioned in Isaiah 6:1-7 are the highest angelic class and serve as the caretakers of God's throne and continuously shout praises: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Holy fucking shit, that is horrifying. Eldrich terror from beyond time and space horrifying.

>>30834580

The higher-ranked choirs of angels generally are.

>>30834415

I think that's only one branch of Gnosticism, actually, there's quite a few sects that fall under that label because they're generally defined more on the idea that salvation comes from "gnosis" or "knowledge", and focused on obtaining that secret knowledge that set them apart from the rest of humanity.

The trouble is that we've only recently discovered texts written by the Gnostics themselves (and by "recently" I mean, back in the 40's with the Dead Sea Scrolls, religious studies is a REALLY slow-developing field of study), before that point pretty much everything we knew about them came from early church fathers who wrote about why they were wrong and were dirty heretics.

Most famously, St. Augustine was actually a member of Manichaenism, which was a widespread and popular form of Gnosticism, before he converted to Christianity.

>>30834415
This also reminds me of what the thalmor are trying to do in the elder scrolls games recently.

>>30832411
>The burning bush was an angel, for example.

The burning bush was fucking God.
Otherwise it was impersonating God, and you don't fucking do that.

>>30834876

Yeah, this, the burning bush was literally God talking directly to Moses. No messenger involved here.

>>30834840
Gnosticism is also the basis for the Blood of Vol religion in Eberron.

>In the last heaven Moses saw two angels, each five hundred parasangs in height, forged out of chains of black fire and red fire, the angels Af, "Anger," and Hemah, "Wrath," whom God created at the beginning of the world, to execute His will. Moses was disquieted when he looked upon them, but Metatron embraced him, and said, "Moses, Moses, thou favorite of God, fear not, and be not terrified," and Moses became calm. There was another angel in the seventh heaven, different in appearance from all the others, and of frightful men. His height was so great, it would have taken five hundred years to cover a distance equal to it, and from the crown of his head to the soles of his feet he was studded with glaring eyes, at the sight of which the beholder fell prostrate in awe. "This one," said Metatron, addressing Moses, "is Samael, who takes the soul away from man." "Whither goes he now?" asked Moses, and Metatron replied, "To fetch the soul of Job the pious." Thereupon Moses prayed to God in these words, "O may it be Thy will, my God and the God of my fathers, not to let me fall into the hands of this angel.

>>30834902
But if god talked directly to someone wouldn't their head explode? I mean, that's what Dogma taught me. You're not going to tell me that Kevin Smith films aren't a legitimate source of religious knowledge, are you?

Oh look what I have here, it's a big ol' book of Apocalyptic Literature. Let's pull a few passages out and see what we can get.

>1 Enoch 88

>"And I saw one of those four who had come out first, how he took hold of that first star which had fallen from heaven, and bound it by its hands and its feet, and threw it into an abyss; and that abyss was narrow and deep and horrible and dark."
>"And one of them drew his sword and gave to those elephants and camels and asses, and they began to strike one another, and the whole earth shook because of them."
>"And as I looked in the vision, behold one of those four who had come out cast from heaven and gathered and took all the large stars whose private parts (were) like the private parts of horses, and bound them all by their hands and their feet, and threw them into a chasm of the earth."

>>30832411
>>30832500
>Gostics anything but based
Fuck off, pleb scum.

Christian creatures are pretty goddamn cool, though more specifically, it's the demons and angels. I want a setting where all the monsters, demons, and shit are all sharing the same world and it's a glorious mess.

>>30835070
All the monsters, demons, and shit of all the world's religions, stories, myths, and legends*

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"w-what are you?"
"AN
ANGEL"

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>>30835070
I did some random racial traits for Aasimar with a YHVH-type god.

There was an accompanying one for Tieflings too but I lost it.

>>30835070
>>30835096

Have you ever played any of the Shin Megami Tensei games?

>>30834958
>But if god talked directly to someone wouldn't their head explode?

that would make the sermon on the mount a much more interesting experience

>>30835113

God also directly appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai to give him the 10 Commandments, and while Moses came down visibly a changed man, he still was a man.

>>30835125
That's like saying Jesus was just a man. Jesus was an epic level wizard.

>>30835112
Not once. Looking into them now, though.

>>30835037

Speaking of Angels

>1 Enoch 19
>And Uriel said to me, The spirits of the angels who were promiscuous with the women will stand here; and they, assuming many forms, made men unclean and will lead men astray so that they sacrifice to demons as gods - (that is,) until the great judgement day on which they will be judged so that an end will be made of them.
>And their wives, having led astray the angels of heaven, will become peaceful.
>And I, Enoch, alone saw the sight, the ends of everything; and no man has seen what I have seen.

And then chapter 20 he gets to naming a lot of important angels.

>And these are the names of the holy angels who keep watch.
>Uriel, one of the holy angels, namely (the angel) of thunder and of tremors.
>Raphael, one of the holy angels (the angel) of the spirits of men.
>Raguel, one of the holy angels, who takes vengeance on the world and on the lights.
>Michael, one of the holy angels, namely the one put in charge of the best part of mankind, in charge of the nation.
>Saraquel, one of the holy angels, who (is) in charge of the spirits of men who cause the spirits to sin.
>Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who (is) in charge of the serpents and the Garden and the Cherubim.

>>30835143
wizards don't get water walk, only clerics and rangers.

jesus, clearly, was a ranger. his favoured enemy was moneychangers.

>>30829612
SO DAMN GOOD
All my friends are either fedoralord atheists or super-religious, so no one wants to play with me :(

>>30835209
Wasn't Uriel the angel sent to carry out the tenth plague of Egypt or am I getting that one from somewhere else?

>>30832781
Eh... Legion is used just... TOO often for my liking. Tons of hack demon movies and books use Legion.

>/co/ had a really awesome thread on religion and Christianity last night
>now have an awesome thread pointing out some of the weirder shit in Judeo-Christian tradition on /tg/

You guys are awesome.

I'm a pretty devout Catholic myself, but it's always fun to talk about some of the weirder heresies that have cropped up in its lengthy history. It's always struck me as weird that even though stuff like Enoch and the Sibylline Oracles aren't canon, a lot of our popular imagery regarding angels, heaven and the end times is taken straight from those works.

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>>30835070
>>30835096
That's basically Touhou, though obviously with more attention given to Eastern mythology/religion.

Though Sariel was one potential final boss of the first game.

>>30832885
>You may just as well base a setting on the Book of Mormon.
Actually Dogs in the Vineyard looks pretty interesting...

>>30835308
I'd love to play some Testament some time. Going all old testament on the mother fuckers in the name of YHVH. I think some people might call me a fedoralord, but I'd call myself an apatheistic agnostic

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>>30835110
>33: Attracts frogs
>34: Touch burns firstborn children
>mfw the ten plagues are my favorite part of the Bible

>>30835369

Maybe? Gimme a second and I'll do some research on that.

>>30835369
Nah, that was Samael

>>30835113
>>30835125
That actually did happen at Sinai, according to some rabbis. The first two Commandments were spoken by God to the Israelites directly, which caused them to burst into flames and die. After bringing them back from the dead twice, God got sick of it and had Moses utter the rest of the commandments.

>>30835451
>>30835369

From what I'm reading, Uriel was the one responsible for checking the doors that were marked by the lamb's blood from Passover and making sure that the Hebrews inside weren't affected by the tenth plague. Wasn't the one that actually did the killing though.

>>30834958
He talks directly to people several times in the bible. Revelation says his voice sounds like crashing tidal waves.

>>30835443
I remember going to catholic school, my family was baptist and seventh-day Adventist, and my religion teacher was amazed I knew all the plagues by heart. She told me my knowledge of scripture was amazing. I mean that's only two chapters into the book and it's one of the more interesting things in the bible. If you can't remember that much you're screwed.

>>30835431
I'm a sorta-religious Jew, and I'd be up for that.
If you're willing to poke fun at your beliefs, and to play with other people's beliefs, then you're not a fundamentalist. Fedoralord or otherwise.

>>30835492
For Catholics it's actually fairly unimportant.

Paul nad the Gospels is what matter.

>>30835469
That's fucking funny.

>>30835526

Catholics still take the Bible quite seriously even if we don't quote chapter and verse at every opportunity.

Just because we don't put AS much emphasis on Scripture as protestants doesn't mean that we think it's unimportant.

>>30835469
Didn't He also speak to Moses with His back turned to him, so Moses wouldn't die?

>>30835469

That's pretty hilarious.

>>30835492

My favorite story has always been Elijah vs. the priests of Baal in first Kings.

Rolled 79, 67, 47 = 193

>>30835110
I'm gonna roll for three. Here we go.

Inb4 I fuck up the syntax because I've never rolled here before.

>>30827631
I rewrote the entirety of the Evangelion canon to make my AdEva campaign work with classical Christian mythology. NGE angels are aliens doing weird shit for vaguely explained reasons which are damned cool. My angels are organised into the nine traditional angelic ranks, sentient, and can "bless" mindfuck regular humans and grant them the capability to perform miracles.

Well, the players like it at least.

>>30835562

I don't see anything about that in the actual reading from Exodus, it might be an apocryphal detail.

>>30835597
>Fertile without fail
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>>30835587
Elijah was pretty fucking awesome

> lol, scream louder bitches, maybe Baal can't hear you. Don't mind me as I dump water all over my sacrifice and still get it to light up.

Rolled 55, 21, 42 = 118

>>30835110

Fuck it, let's give this a shot.

>>30835110
need to make aasimars with like 10+ of these traits, that all affect different parts of them. Time to get some real "angelic" aasimars going on.

>>30832885
I would TOTALLY base a setting on the book of mormon.

>>30835625

Not only got it to light up but it CONSUMED THE STONE ALTAR in the fire.

Rolled 91, 99, 42 = 232

>>30835110
Might as well.

>>30835618
Funnily combined with 79, you'll always know all about your many sons' sons and so on and so forth.

>>30835618
Sounds hot.

>>30835110
>Breath reeks of incense and freshly cut stone
>Skin hot to the touch, burns the unrighteous
>Compulsively draws circles with ink or finger when idle

mite b cool

>>30835677
Your justice finger is itchy while not actively burning evildoers.

>>30835625
>>30835658
You guys sure that was water?
Not oil?

So, here's a question for you /tg/:

Satan is the snake that makes Eve eat the fruit of Knowledge.
Lucifer is the fallen angel that rebels against god.
Beelzebub is a philistine god mocked as the lord of flies.

Isn't it kinda interesting to see there is an unholy trinity as well, compared to the trinity of the father, the son and the holy ghost?

>>30835694
He probably wouldn't have gotten away with that.

>>30835666
True. If the patrilineal knowledge goes both ways, and it really is permanent, then I can keep watch on my descendants forever.

>>30835110

> mouth and open wounds emit light

Holy shit that is badass

>>30835645
I mean, it's possible. You'd just need to divide the body up into parts and have smaller (or equivalent) tables for each part. I don't really have the motivation for it though.

>>30835702
It's not biblical but Milton's characterful court/hierarchy of devils is pretty tremendous game material.

>>30835702
>Satan is the snake that makes Eve eat the fruit of Knowledge

Eeeeuuughgh, not really? There's interpretations that claim that it was just a snake. Satan is a different figure in the Old Testament.

>>30835702

There's a lot more that you are missing. Like Dagon, as just one example. There's much, much, much, much evil entities. Much more than three.

Rolled 37, 20, 66 = 123

>>30835110
Fuckit, let's give it a go.

>>30835702
But Stan wasn't the snake. Stan is Lucy's new name after he rebelled.

>>30827650
....A Muhammad character?

You were playing the actual prophet? ...What game would that be a character in?

Rolled 58, 27, 87 = 172

>>30835110
Rollin'

>>30835560
I never said it was unimportant, but I doubt any catholic actually give a shit if their children remember every single minutia of the old testament.

Rolled 16, 10, 5 = 31

>>30835110
Rollan'

Rolled 30, 21, 62 = 113

>>30835753
>Oxen's feet
>1d20 extra eyes around the body
>Body covered in religious script

So I'm basically an aasimar satyr with a body that inspires terror wherever I go.

Rolled 39, 66, 52 = 157

Let's give 'er a shot.

>>30835753
>ox feet
>extra eyes
>scripture tattoos
Inconspicuous, you ain't.

Rolled 39, 16, 67 = 122

>>30835808
> black
> 27

The dice knew.

>>30835810

It's still kind of a shame just how poorly read a lot of people nowadays are regarding the bible, and don't know simple well-known stories or quote or even idioms that are from it.

>>30835826

On the plus side, congrats, you're a cherubim!

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Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

Rolled 51, 76, 39 = 166

>>30835865
I never even made that connection. Hell. Yes.

Rolled 91, 100, 88 = 279

>>30835110

Sounds fun, let's see what we get

>>30835856
Even in heaven.

>>30835867

Revelation is fucking rad. It's one of only two proper apocalypses to make it in Canon (the other being the latter part of Daniel, Ezekiel kind of sorta doesn't count), and it's by far the weirdest.

>>30835867
It's funny how the part that always bothered me with that description was the numbers. 10 horns on 7 heads? INCONCEIVABLE

>>30835369
Wrong genocide.

Uriel talked to Noah.

>>30835918

Because it's written in a highly symbolic, coded language, it's not supposed to make sense on a physical level.

>>30835798
Underage Virgin Quest: Exploding Vests of Glory Edition

>>30835883
>Metal heats upon touch
>Eyes of Sapphire
>Lion-like mane

Why do I sound like a bad Mary-Sue character now.

>>30835798
Shadowrun. Or possibly Rifts.

>>30835562
>>30835614
Exodus 33:18-23
> Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
> And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
> But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
> Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock.
> When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
> Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

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>>30835110
dice+3d50
Rolling for greater glory

>>30835977

Oh damn, must've missed that passage, thanks man.

Rolled 11, 20, 29 = 60

>>30835986
>not putting the line in the right field
wtf am I doing?

>>30827631
/v/ had a Christianity thread last night that was pretty good. Someone brought up the angel Azrael who basically had an eye for every person who has or would be born. When the person dies the eye representing them closes and Azrael basically awaits the day that all it's eyes close and it can finally rest.

I think you could make a pretty good villain from that, basically a murderous angel with a really bad case of insomnia.

Rolled 67, 46, 98 = 211

Hmmmmm

Rolled 94, 4, 49 = 147

>>30835110
rollan

>>30836010
>Flesh poisonous to beasts
>Birthmark of a sword across brow
>Hydrophobic
That's . . . kind of lame :(

>>30835702
>Satan is the snake that makes Eve eat the fruit of Knowledge.

This always triggers my autism. It was the tree of knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL. It wasn't saying that humans were dumb before the Fall of Man, and they became smart after wards, it was saying they had no experimental knowledge of Evil before the Fall of Man, and afterwards they experienced/learned it. Or something to this effect.

Don't even believe it, but it gets on my nerves when people say "HURP NO EAT TREE OF KNOWLEDGE" as though God was forbidding education and not warning about Evil.

Fuck. Ok rant over, as you were.

>>30836037
>Shadow is luminous and hot to the touch
>surrounded by translucent fire in the darkness
>cannot speak the name of gods
I kind of imagine some awesome ball of fire. Also for some reason it's a Tsundere girl that starts stuttering when she has to pronounce the names of gods.

>>30836040
Blame the Flood m8.

>>30836058
No, I feel you. I said the same thing in a thread earlier this morning. Really when you think about it, the tree is basically the sin of theft or envy. God made it, says that they can't eat from it, but they take it anyway because they want it. You can't defend that shit.

Rolled 33, 7, 46 = 86

>>30835110
Rollan.

>>30836058
I merely dropped the 'good and evil' bit since I assumed that would be common knowledge around you gentlemen.
But I failed pretty hard in that post, seeing how I kinda seperated Lucifer from Satan...

Rolled 21, 61, 14 = 96

>>30835110
rolling again, cause I want something really messed up

>>30835110
roland

>>30835918
>10 horns on 7 heads? INCONCEIVABLE

That's pretty easy, actually. Four heads with one horn each, three heads with two horns each.

But more importantly, the seven heads represent Rome.

17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rolled 20, 70, 38 = 128

>>30835110
Might as well.

Rolled 57, 57, 34 = 148

>>30835110

Rolled 89, 2, 44 = 135

>>30835110
ok, let's see

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>>30836114
I just hate it when you chop off the second half of the tree's title and misconstrue the meaning of the story to make it seem like God is forbidding wisdom or knowledge, and not evil and decadence. Not even a theist and that gets on my nerves.

Same when people miscontrue history or scriptures to make it seem more irrational.

>HURP MEDIEVALS THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS ROUND!

No they didn't, the World was proved to be a sphere around 300 BC.

>HURP medievals didn't use believe in natural laws of physics!

This is just insulting. Medieval philosophy is all about orderly progression and perfectly fitting cogs and gears. Order, Elegance, and Aesthetics were their thing.

>HURP Medievals didn't use Reason.

Which is why dialectics and classical logic flourished, amiright?

So many myths just to make a philosophy seem irrational. So annoying.

Rolled 58, 29, 50 = 137

>>30835110
Let's do this

Rolled 8, 94, 65 = 167

>>30835110
Let's get angelic up in hurr.

Rolled 57, 40, 79 = 176

>>30836224
>HURP MEDIEVALS THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS ROUND!
To be fair, I'm sure there were SOME that thought it was flat. Peasantry, mostly, should they actually think of it.

That belief of mine is completely based on the existence of modern-day people who think the Earth is flat, however.

>>30836224
Everyone who knew fuck-all about sailing knew the earth was round. It's fucking visible to the naked eye even.

Rolled 28, 68, 77 = 173

>>30836267
>Fierce Hatred Of Snakes
>Can Kindle Fires By Touch
>One Eye Blind And Made Of Metal

What.

>>30836137

No, that's actually fairly accurate according to the Old Testament version, there's a big difference between how Satan was portrayed in, say the Book of Job, versus later Christian theology where he and Lucifer get rolled into one character.

Rolled 6

>>30836270
Oh boy, I get to roll a random number of wing stumps!

>>30836215
>4x1+3x2
Sure, but the uneven distribution just really, really bothered me when I was a kid.

>>30835107
I can't remember if that was supposed to be a vision or not, but those angels are highly symbolic, which means that whether they're literal forms or not means almost nothing to me.

Those two rings of eyes symbolize the idea that this angel has seen everything. They have seen everything there is to see in the universe, and they still proclaim the glory of God. Pretty sure, at least.

>>30836293
>Lips Burned From Birth
>Torso Withered On One Side
>Hands And/Or Feet Are Metallic Eagle Claws

So this one is some form of horrifically deformed metal-ass eagle.

>>30836322
Depending on who you ask, they can also be the literal sentient wheels of God's chariot.

>>30836224

Same here. A lot of times it gets rolled into this stereotype of the "dark ages" where education and scientific inquiry were forbidden or forgotten by the Church.

>>30835798
I'm guessing a druid in fantasy settings?
>split water
>locust swarm
>let my people go
These are all things a druid can do.

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>>30836302
But it's even symmetrical!

>>30836364
Which is bullshit because the Church preserved historic pagan knowledge, and the "Great Work" of the Scholastics was synthesizing Christian thought with Pagan wisdom.

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>>30830248
Hey my cousin how are you doing?

>>30836331
I can't remember what the lips are from but the torso thing is obviously from the crucifixion and the eagle's claws are from eagle references in Ezekiel and Daniel.

>>30836322
And if the literal physical manifestation of an angel is symbolically-based, that makes that form mean "almost nothing"? How so?

Angels are (supposedly) symbolic beings. Why should their bodies not be symbolic in nature?

>>30835977
>I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

This idea pervades throughout the Judeo-Christian belief system. We've all sinned, and we all deserve divine judgment. We've chosen damnation on ourselves.

God showing mercy on us with Jesus, and giving different measures of faith to his believers is him showing mercy and compassion on who he chooses.

I think this idea has been nearly lost to most Christians, and non-Christians simply don't know it.

Thank you for quoting this scripture. It's put a very fine point on the nature of God's mercy, and I'll try to remember it.

>>30836331
I imagine a horribly burned body with a metallic skeleton showing through on it's claw-hands where all flesh is completely burnt away.

>>30836449
Oh god, that is hardcore.

>>30836437
Damn, I need to reread the Old Testament.

>>30836437
The lips would be from Isaiah chapter 6:

>Then I said, “Woe is me, I am doomed! For I am a man of unclean lips, living among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!” Then one of the seraphim flew to me, holding an ember which he had taken with tongs from the altar. He touched my mouth with it. “See,” he said, “now that this has touched your lips, your wickedness is removed, your sin purged.”

>>30836396
>filename
Its the Beast, not the Dragon. Different characters.

>>30836409
>and the "Great Work" of the Scholastics was synthesizing Christian thought with Pagan wisdom.

If by "pagan wisdom", you mean "Aristotle"

But yeah, a lot of theologians throughout the medieval ages were encouraged to read books that were not considered canon or "truth", if only to learn how to refute them better. A lot of them also engaged in scientific research.

>>30836479
Yep, that's it.

>>30827684
There's a reason that most Angels introduced themselves with the phrase "BE NOT AFRAID!"

>>30836494
Both the Beast and the Dragon have the same horn/head setup.

>>30836440
It's not that it means "almost nothing."

Sorry, it's that I'm totally comfortable with the idea of God making any angel or creature in any shape or form. If God made it, I think it's totally rad, and I totally accept it as divine. Whether it's a really pretty white guy with wings, or some mind-bending double-ring of fire and eyes, I am A-ok with it.

Because God makes some pretty awesome things.

>>30836499
Pretty sure it was more than him. Plato was already mostly synthesized, and other ancient works were recovered from the Muslims and debated as well.

>>30836504

Not all of them appeared like that, often times they disguised themselves as humans.

Read Tobit, it's kind of weird, but pretty awesome and no one ever talks about it because it's part of the Septuagint.

My favorite minor bit of christian mythology is an old irish tradition that the devil has three wives, as an expression of how lustful he is.

also as an explanation of why he's always fucking around in the world trying to tempt people instead of ruling hell.

>>30836538
Lousy Prots, gutting the Bible...

I wonder if anyone on /tg/ is Christian or if you're all fedoracore atheists at heart

>>30836535

I'm sure there was, but Aristotle was the biggest influence on Scholastics, especially for Aquinas.

Oh, speaking of this topic, did anyone see the new version of Cosmos they're airing now. Made me so fucking mad that they completely misrepresented the life of Giordano Bruno to make him a "martyr for science" when he was more Hermetic and occultist than scientist.

>>30836574

I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist. So there is at least one.

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>>30836574

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm Roman Catholic.

>>30836574
Are those the only choices? I feel like there are a lot more religious groups than Christian and Militant Atheist.

>>30827816
>not, strictly speaking, canon in any church.
Isn't it canon for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church?

>>30836574
I'm with >>30836617.

(I love that pic, btw.)

>>30836574
I'm a Jew. Hi!

>>30836595
I didn't, but I hate this kind of misconstruing of facts to sell a narrative. A LOT of scientists, at least pop sci, know fuck all about history of science or even the nature of the science.

If one more person implies to me that Mathematics is a science I will strangle them in their sleep.

>>30836621
I don't know any actual Muslims that would dare browse 4chan, and there are no other religions that are as credible as Christianity or as logically consistent

>>30836649

Wikipedia says it's canonical for the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church. That's it, though.

>>30836574
Apatheistic Agnostic. I believe that you can't prove shit, so believing shit is kind of pointless. If you're a good person and heaven exists, you'll get in, and if it doesn't, you're a decent person and that's it's own reward.

>>30836672
There's scientists (people who do science), and then there's scientists (people who hold to the philosophy of scientism).

>>30836679
Most of the Buddhists I know are bro as fuck, and the few Hindus and Sikhs I've met are at least alright people.

>>30836705
From a fellow agnostic, how do you respond to the typical Christian answer to that, which is

"Everyone is shit."

?

>>30836574
Episcopal brah

In short >>30836617 these guys but more chill about pretty much everything

>>30836679
1. Being an Atheist does not mean being "fedoracore"
B. What is Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or Sikhism?
III. You sound so fucking insufferable.

>>30836716
>"Philosophy is outdated because it cant' be proved empirically."

I want VEHK the Son to personally milk-finger every last "scientist" who has said or who privately believes anything even vaguely resembling this statement.

Yes I mad.

>>30836574
Can't I not believe in any God(s) while still being intrigued by religion and mythology?

>>30836009
>I think you could make a pretty good villain from that, basically a murderous angel with a really bad case of insomnia.
Eh, people interpreting "Angel of Death" as "should be a villain because Death is Bad!!" never struck me as a good idea. He works much better as a silent observer or heroic figure

>>30836718
"Then noone gets into heaven, problem solved. Now, do you want that pint or can I have it?"

I generally only get into religious discussions in the pub, for some reason.

>>30836672
Those people are called "scienstismists." They believe in "scientism" - the view that the characteristic inductive methods of the natural sciences are the only source of genuine factual knowledge and, in particular, that they alone can yield true knowledge about man and society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
It's 9000000% bullshit. "History don't real, only chemistry real!" is just the STEM variant of SJW "only our critical theory and feels are real!"

>>30836717
Sikh people are awesome. If I wasn't happy with my religion then I'd convert to them immediately.

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>>30836739

I know plenty of people like that. Same way I can be Catholic and still enjoy learning about other religions and other branches of Christianity.

>>30836662

I have way too many of these jokes saved.

>>30836739
Sure, that's just standard aetheist. Make sure you keep ALL your mythology books on the same shelf, and make sure you don't have a go at anyone about their belief choices and you're good.

>>30836741
I've always liked the idea of Death personified as a sort of custodian. He's not a monster who deals out murders, or craves for souls, or bargains with people so they can continue living. He's the kind of guy who sits there with you as you pass on, speaks with you, maybe helping you to understand your death or how it will affect your family, offers a cold, skeletal hand, and leads you on to the afterlife, whatever that may be.

A very softspoken, friendly character who understands the necessity of his job.

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>>30836794

So... Gaiman's Death of the Endless?

>>30836760
Congratulations on just figuring out Christian philosophy in a nutshell. In short themepark version.

Argument:
1. Only Good people go to Heaven.
2. There are no Good people.
3. Therefore everyone should go to Hell.

Corollary

1. Thats bullshit.
2. Seriously what kind of dickass Deity would allow that state of affairs to continue?
3. Solution? We use magic and moralisms to make people Good. Its fucking foolproof.

>>30836741
Well I like the idea of him as a sympathetic villain, kind of like how Galactus only destroys planets cause he needs to eat.

Azrael wouldn't kill you for the evils. He's killing you because your existence has been keeping him awake for eons and he wants to go to sleep. You're basically the asshole blasting his stereo across the street at two in the morning and Azrael is having no more of your shit. But yeah, I can understand being tired of the whole, death is bad so Death must be bad, thing too.

>>30836574
Neither, baha'i

>>30835957
You just sound like a druid.
>lion mane
>gems of the earth as eyes
>heat metal is a 2nd level druid spell

My only gripe with most of /tg/'s fedoras are that they seem to ignore the fact that believing in a lot of what science has "proven" takes leaps of faith as well

>>30836804

That's a gross oversimplification.

>Only good people go to heaven
>There are no good people
>therefore, God sent his only Son, Jesus Christ to be sacrificed to reconcile us to God and offer us the grace to be saved
>therefore, people who refuse this grace and deny God go to hell

>>30836832
Ah! Cool religion, bro. Have you been to the gardens in Haifa?
I'm sorry that your people are continually oppressed in Iran. That blows :(

Rolled 39, 32, 44 = 115

>>30835110
rollan for awesome aasimar

>>30836679
I for one believe in no god but Allah and recognize Mohammad (SAW) as his prophet. And I'm on 4chan, browsing. Apparently I am daring.

>>30836672

>Watch the rebooted Cosmos
>first fucking episode shows the EVIL CHURCH suppressing science

Fuck pop science. We need pop history.

Seriously, of all people, why do scientists- or at least pop scientists- know so little about history?

>>30836818
I'm also imagining him trying a passive-aggressive "Stop fucking because it makes me need more eyes to handle this shit" plan first.
Also really, really hating people that pull immortal bullshit.

>>30836784
I don't really fancy discussing belief choices with people in person at all, just like I don't like talking politics. I've no particularly strong opinions on either subject, I just know what makes sense to me.

>>30836852
>are that they seem to ignore the fact that believing in a lot of what science has "proven" takes leaps of faith as well

Whoa, buddy, we are not going here. This argument is not going to end well.

Science is science because it builds on long traditions of compiled empirical evidence. We draw new paradigms based on new evidence as it arises in order to frame that evidence in a model that can predict and explain natural phenomena.

Divine, religious Faith is a completely different thing.

>>30836858
>Monotheistic God
>has a Son . . . who is also God?
>sacrificed his son by sending him to be killed by Romans
>brings Son back from the dead
>sacrificed-not-sacrificed Son is somehow God forgiving us our sins
>"Sin" being "violating the covenant that we made with God."
mhhhm
Jews think you're crazy. Muslims think you're crazy. It's not a good sign that Jews and Muslims agree on you.

>>30836858
Unless you're a Calvinist, in which case there's no refusal of grace, you're either one of the elect who gets it and there's no way you can possibly refuse, or you're just shit out of luck.

I never did understand Calvinism.

>>30836858
Thats why I said it was the themepark version. If we want to get technical the way it works is that evil deeds [or "sins"] become engrained as habits, causing Vices to build up in the Will, eventually inverting the whole Soul so that the Reason is ruled entirely by the Passions and ethical behavior and happiness becomes impossible, at which point the being is said to be "Damned" and is locked in Hell to prevent it from harming the rest of the cosmos, and that the only way to arrest this process is through Christian doctrine and practice, which leads to supernatural virtue and eventually perfection, whereby the Reason rules the Will, which rules the Passions, to the glory of God, the result of which is knowledge and happiness [in the deep, eudaimonia sense, not the merely pleased at the current affairs sense].

But thats the long version.

Something I've always been fascinated by is the idea of God bringing forth a flood to cleanse the world of overwhelming evil back in Old Testament times.

Assuming that a person takes the word of the bible as a literal chronicle of events, and not a book of parables, what possible condition could the world have been in back then that was so terrible that God felt it necessary to obliterate every last bit of it, yet today, now, is not worse. We have more means to be completely ruthless to each other now than we ever had in the past, and yet somehow it's not quite bad enough for God to declare that it's time for another do-over.

Rolled 39, 1, 40 = 80

>>30836868
>Body orbited by crossed pair of ethereal wheels
>Skin pulses with light, intensifies at holy sites
>Lion fur
DO NOT FEAR ME
I AM NEON-CAT
MOVE ALONG MORTAL
I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO CATCH THESE WHEELS
WHY WON'T THEY STOP MOVING

>>30834938
what is this actually cited from

also if im planning to read the bible is there any specific translation that would be good to read? i have a feeling a lot of them would omit something like "studded with glaring eyes"

>>30836877

I just had to read Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions for one of my grad school classes and it's fascinating.

Dense as fuck, but fascinating. I would recommend you read it, because he brings up the same problem, the nature of how we teach Science nowadays obscures the thought processes and paradigms that previous scientists operated under, and thus obscures the process of those scientific revolutions.

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>>30836794
Or you could go this route.

Rolled 25, 83, 1 = 109

>>30836886
Another anon here.

Belief in empirical evidence is still belief, as is the metaphysics of causality and reasoning. It is simply a more convenient and justifiable type of faith.

>>30836905
Calvinism is bullshit. You're predetermined by God to be good or evil, but God punishes or rewards you for following your programming. You don't have free will - but you're held liable for your actions? Nonsense.

>>30836914

Sounds like a non-canonical apocalypse narrative.

>>30836794
I have a series you might like then.
He only shows up in the later seasons (5+ I believe)

Rolled 55, 64, 70 = 189

>>30836930
Belief in an external world, in an ordered universe with rules that can be learned, in the utility of reason - those are the beliefs that allow someone to value empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, if it's resting on those beliefs, is not something "believed." It becomes fact as a consequence of those underlying beliefs.

>>30836910
*constant trance/techno theme follows you around*

>>30836930

SO.... what you're saying is that to believe in scientific, empirical proof is to have faith in our own rationality and ability of our senses to correctly inform us?

>>30836905
I fucking hate Calvinism.
>>30836886
Its also because religious people have bought beliefs that don't even make sense traditionally. Faith used to be "Believing in the unseen on the basis of evidence or testimony", now its "Believing [Insert thing] without evidence".

People turned faith into such a nonsensical concept no one would possibly defend it, and then tricked people who want to defend a certain religion or system of thought into trying to defend it.

Which is why any time I begin one of these "Faith v. Reason" debates I always come down hard on the side of Reason, explaining that "Faith" as the modern concept is a retarded ahistorical mess.

>>30834938
Fun fact, a parasang is roughly the equivalent of a league, so those angels are around 1726 miles tall. That's pretty huge.

>>30836963
>breath reeks of incense and cut stone
>body of light, shadow skeleton
>sheep-like teeth
Woah.

>>30836908
Well, if you're taking the Bible literally, it'd probably be because God solemnly swore not to hit the reset button again after the flood.

>>30836931

I never liked Calvinism either.

Now, Arminianism and Methodists are pretty chill.

>>30836295
They were always one character, its just that he was made into an unquestionable bad guy for the Christians. Before, he was just a bloke doing a job.

>>30836978
>Faith used to be "Believing in the unseen on the basis of evidence or testimony", now its "Believing [Insert thing] without evidence".

I blame protestant fundamentalists, but most of that is in turn a knee-jerk reaction to Materialism and Modernity, so yeah.

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>>30837005
>sheep-like teeth
Wut.

>>30837011

Well... he said that he would never destroy the world by FLOOD again.

>>30836988
....Wut.

Oh god. I'm trying to put that in monster movie terms but I don't think I've ever seen one with something roughly 6 times the size of the Empire state building.

Moses had balls of steel not to freak the fuck out.

>>30836978
>>30836905

I think Max Webber's study on Calvinism sheds a bit of light on their belief.

I don't know, Calvinism with its NO FUN ALLOWED stance sounds a bit too harsh for me.

>>30837011
Y'know, for an omniscient dude he sure has one hell of a character arc; especially if you include the expanded universe (new testament, apocrypha, etc)

I love Christianity/Catholicism as a mythology. Modern Christianity is so boring. God sits on a throne in cloud town and thinks about how gross gay people are.

Christian Mythology is full of strange beasts, power struggles, sweet flaming weapons, and what can essentially be describes as de facto polytheism.

I love angelology threads on /tg/, because they always end up with interesting discussions of religion, even people openly stating their personal religious beliefs, with little or none of the usual vitriol such things usually bring on the internet.

You guys are alright.

>>30836574
Im a Baptist.

Protestants and Catholics are both Christians, and I don't get why people separate the two as "Christian" and "Catholic." It's dumb.

>>30837075

It's not God that's changed, Catholicism at least teaches that God reveals himself over time, with each part leading into each other. So the OT preludes to the NT, and the NT is a prelude to the establishment of the Church on earth.

>>30837022
Arianism is pretty awesome. Arius objected to trinitarian theology at the Nicean Council and was deemed a heretic (and later exonerated and then deemed a heretic again). Christians could have been proper monotheists, instead of this quasi-monotheistic trinitarian oddness.

Episcopalians are pretty cool, I have a bunch of friends in that church.

>>30837071
Its not its "NO FUN ALLOWED" that kills me, is how utterly unapologetically Evil it is. Theres a few "Calvinism Lites" out there that tune it down, but real hard core Calvinism is basically the story of an Almighty Demon who creates beings with no free will, gets mad at them for doing what He [by hard determism] forced them to do, and then arbitrarily punishes and rewards some, just for his "glory", which is to say, fame from beings who from a technical standpoint aren't even conscious.

Calvinism is like if someone let Fedorafags write the Bible. Its horrid.

>>30837064

MILES bro. The thing was slightly taller than the united states is vertically.

>>30837101

Mah ecumenical brother!

That being said though, there are distinct theological beliefs between you guys and us Catholics, so the distinction IS necessary in an academic sense, but we are all still members of the body of Christ after all.

>>30837043
Sheep have a plate instead of teeth at the top of their jaw.

>>30836574
Atheist.

But I don't own a fedora. Infact.... yep. I am completely hatless. No fedora, top hat, tricorne, beret, balaclava, baseball, garrison, fez, or any other sort of hat.

Not even a hoodie.

>>30837043
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
>>30837101
Protestants denied the Papacy, which is why they're considered separate groups of Christians. Also, don't some Baptists think that Catholics aren't properly Christian?

I always thought it would have been kind of cool in Manichaenism had survived properly.

Just smash Christianity with Zoroastrianism and Buddhism and all that stuff and see what comes out.

I tried to understand their theology, but shit got confusing.

Rolled 85, 91, 52 = 228

>>30835110

>>30835601
you have some sort of document with that on? sounds cool as hell

>>30837114

They had a vote on it and he was only one of two that objected to the Trinitarian dogma as it was codified in the Nicene Creed. He was just outnumbered.

Also, has the distinction of being punched in the face by St. Nicholas.

Rolled 14, 41, 86 = 141

>>30835110
I gotta know.

>>30837137
>Also, don't some Baptists think that Catholics aren't properly Christian?

More than Baptists, it's a stereotype of sizable number of American Protestants.

>>30837089
I fucking love the mythology, and I fucking love treating it as true. Among other things I've considered, I tried calculating what the rate of immigration into the Christian heaven is, operating on the following assumptions.

1. That the Christian paradise is physical, or at least quasi-physical.

2. That the dimensions given in Revelation for New Jerusalem are equal to the dimensions for Heaven as it currently existed in the mythology.

I ended up calculating world population for Christians and deaths per day.

Funny enough it all started because of those gay "I went to heaven!" stories they sell at Wal-Mart, and how they always have the person walk through a six foot tall Gate and walk into the place all of a hundred feet before getting to God's throne and their relatives.

I was convinced [and still am] that if these places exist they must look more like the Dallas Airport. Fucktons of people coming in, angels yelling over intercoms in dozens of languages, people of every skin color trying to get sorted in. Which is ironically what the Bible describes these places as. But then modern Christians spiritualize saying thats metaphorical.

Why must they go out of their way to make things make less sense?

>>30836766
>Sikh people are awesome. If I wasn't happy with my religion then I'd convert to them immediately.

I think that if I had to choose a religion, it would either be Mesopotamian (considering how much of a hard on I have for the Akkadian empire) or the Sikhs.

>>30837105
Right. That makes sense. That's probably the explanation I would've given too.

>>30837204
>angels yelling over intercoms in dozens of languages
Or one language that everyone hears as their own, Pentecost-style.

>>30837229
I considered that and dismissed it on biblical grounds, and because that leads to all kinds of physical and metaphysical problems.

For example if someone speaks in slang does the magic translate literally or by meaning?

>>30837174
That's pretty cool, being punched by a Saint. Holy damage to the unbeliever?

>>30837197
Why?? If anything, the Catholics and the Orthodox are the closest to the "One True Christian" idea. Oh well.

>>30837205
So, Sikh. Why follow a dead religion? Obviously they got something wrong, or they wouldn't be dead.

>>30837249
Whichever one of those options it is, obviously it works as intended. It was designed to work so it works.
I can't see how that could possibly be dismissed for any reason at all.

>>30837249
Dismissed it on Biblical grounds? But there's Biblical precedent. If the Apostles could do it, surely angels can?

>>30837265
I'm fairly sure he wasn't an unbeliever so much as a nearly-identical-but-ever-so-slightly-different-believer

>>30837128
Yes. This this this. The details, while relevant to living a life in faith that we believe glorifies God, are ultimately secondary to the blood of Christ which binds us together.

Like one time I went to a Catholic church my friend went to, and I didn't realize that Catholics did the Lord's Supper every Mass. They believed that since I wasn't Catholic, I shouldn't partake in it. Rather than getting angry, I realized that they did this for my own sake, because taking part in the Lord's Supper without being right with God is bringing judgement upon yourself.

And that consideration, rather than exclusionary, is a matter of faith. Allowing me to do so anyways would be sin for both of us, so it's for both our sakes.

I love this body, and I hope we knit ourselves closer together in the future.

>>30837249
What kind of metaphysical problems? 1 Corinthians 12:10 seems to say that translations of "every language" isn't such a big deal to the omniscient deity, even if the language is low-class slang.

>>30837274
>>30837272
The Bible describes people of "every tongue/language" in heaven, and this is a first-person account by John, so I thought it made more sense for him to know that because he heard them speaking different languages.

Not to mention it raises all kinds of other questions about linguistics and................just for various reasons I thought Tongues works better as a short-term miracle than a long-term solution to the Babel problem.

>>30837265
Personally, I find it telling that despite being separated for far longer than Protestants have, Orthodox and Catholics are nearly identical in terms of practical theology, with only a few quibbles here and there. Whereas Protestants, despite their schism coming centuries later, have exploded into a plethora of denominations, the vast majority of which are dramatically different from Orthodox/Catholic theology.

>>30835110
Holy shit I love you.

I have a country in my setting that worships the Fleshed God, an actual god that hangs out and rules things.
His children are called the Thousand Gods of the Heavenly Court, and they're also worshipped.

The country is heavily caste based, with your caste being determined by how much god-blood you have in you.

The Thousand Gods are all pretty much spoiled, bratty children with superpowers and divine mutations.

>>30837317
I was thinking in terms strictly of the angels-on-PAs bit, not that everyone in heaven necessarily speaks in tongues.

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>>30837310
Ecumenical brofist.

>>30836794
I've always cut them into three groups depending on how they are portrayed.

Angel of Death - Good guy. Has a fair amount of compassion for the dead, tries to help them along in their path, does the necessary explaining, takes plenty of time to make sure they have a clear picture of whats happening so they can pass without too much death.

Ferryman - A man who has a job to do. He doesn't really care about humans one way or the other, but its either his job to do away with the dying or take them where they are supposed to go. If they do what is necessary (assuming there are conditions), they're going to get there, and it would take a more powerful god than Death to prevent them from reaching their destination.

Grim Reaper - A malevolent entity. He might, like the ferryman, be just doing a job, but that's not to say that he doesn't get a little bit giddy every time a plague rolls into town or a new war starts.

Most mythologies without decent orthodoxy actually have individuals who fit two of those portrayals; one neutral and one either good or bad. Its fairly rare to see all three at once.

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>>30837304
So . . . a heretic? SMITE THE HERETIC!?

>>30837321
If I were a Christian, that would be a convincing argument for me. Perpetuation of the traditional ways of doing things = more likely that you're the OG

>>30837351
Ah. Then I misunderstood you. But see my point? Its FUN to think out the implications of this shit instead of getting shot down with "Hurp its metaphorical" even when it gives no indication its intended to be.

You start with a rich mythology of four-faced demigods and perfect Men as angelic hosts, living in cities of jewels and flying chariots of fire. Of people fighting for Good and opposing Vices. Of scholars debating and prophets who split oceans.

And you spiritualize it and rot it and emotionalize it until it becomes..................a soppy tool for old fat women and insecure teens to get over their life issues.

*Sigh*

>>30837321
Baptists follow the Bible fairly closely, and while we believe that tongues and miracles can happen, we've never seen it happen and we're really wary of any claims of it happening, since there are a lot of people who fake these things.

It's... painful and sad... and I know that it's sort of my fault in a sense.

Even if a miracle DID happen, would I even believe it? Would I know it? God help me and give me faith, I hope that I believe God's work when I see it.

Captcha: rosebud czenre

>>30837265
>Why?? If anything, the Catholics and the Orthodox are the closest to the "One True Christian" idea. Oh well.

Because we're dirty papists, worship statues and Mary, and don't read the Bible.

>>30837395
Fuck Moralistic Therapeutic Deism. Such bullshit.

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>>30837378

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Rolled 64, 9, 46 = 119

>>30837170
I don't have a single document with it on, but I have a few of the Dead Sea Scrolls-style prophecies the players got when each one attacked.

>>30837385
More like that guy that shows up for all the big inquisition parties and the two of you spend the night hatefucking each other with your eyes from across the room.

>>30835209

Are you reading straight out of the Old Testament, or do you have like, a webpage or pdf for this shit?

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>>30837398
>Even if a miracle DID happen, would I even believe it? Would I know it? God help me and give me faith, I hope that I believe God's work when I see it.

But anon, you see God's work every day. Every time the sun rises. The universe itself is the work of his love that allows us to live and exist every day.