http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Disney_villains_victorious

>>36049715

Gaston wasn't the villain: the witch was the villain. That woman was a horrible cunt.

>>36049795
In case anyone missed it.

>>36049781
>turning a child into a beast for not letting a stranger into his house
Seriously she's a asshole.

>>36049822
Maybe it was Maleficent. It would be entirely in character. Hell, it would be generous on her part.

>>36049822
Hence why Faeries should be a villainous force or at least a semi-evil faction.

And you have Rumpelstiltskin to help fuck them over

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>mfw lots of anons going to bed just as this thread gets up

We better still have enough people to keep this baby rolling until tomorrow, we can't let the combo break just yet.

Remember guys, we need to flesh out the crunch before moving on to the rest of the fluff and the details

From last thread:
>>36049661 #
Speaking of which... I liked the suggestion earlier about gathering bells from around the world for the final assault on Bald Mountain. Maybe what keeps it from being any old bell is that it needs to have participated in a significant event, or needs to have dwelled in a place of (nonevil) magic for a long time.

The lone church in Chernobog's realm was also an excellent idea. Maybe all the bells could be set up there.

>>36049715
why not have an option for both point buy and random gen?

is there anŷ chance of having talents or powers simaler though obvious weaker then the villain (depending on where youre from of course)
part of me wants to make a voodoo using character

>>36049855
Right. So what's first on the list? I know a lot of us aren't exactly the crunch type, myself included, but we'll help however we can.

Don't forget to vote to archive the thread

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorious

>>36049855
What sort of crunch? I missed threads 2-6.

>>36049898
Well Pirates of the Carribean is canon here so having a friendly voodoo practicioner doesn't seem out of the question... but in this setting does voodoo power come exclusively from the Other Side, or are there other sources?

>>36049909

Well, last time we were discussing Skills. We are never going to get a proper agreeiment on all those, but we seem to have a good list on the 1d4chan page right now. So, quoting from an Anon on the last thread....

"Last thread we were discussing the more crunchy stuff. If I recall correctly - and I do, because I just found the post - it was something like

>Now, for character creation to be complete (to say nothing of game mastery) we need the following things. Who's willing to work on some of these?

Attributes, total number of and description of;
Skills (not too many but not too few);
Roles; (Combatnant, Skillmonkey, Face, Support)
Talents;
A working combat system?;
Ideals;
Goals;
XP; (can be finished later)

We got number of Attributes, I think.

The "combat" system would be the Three-Strikes one. You can score a "strike" on anything by any means your character excells at; if you are a punchy guy, you can just hit the boss until your strike goes through. If you are a sensitive/emotional, you can speak directly into his emotional and make him hesitant/livid/saddened and it'll count as a strike as well

What else?"

We can keep the arguing up on skills, or leave it as it is and move on to character creation.

>>36049855
Right. So, leveling up. My first instinct is that leveling up is accomplished by accomplishing goals, and 'XP' is points in a point-buy system.
However, this is Disney, and Disney heroes always suffer a major setback before coming back stronger and winning. So, leveling up should also be accomplished through major failures- as long as you get out alive, of course.

>>36049998
So far, the general consensus seems to be that characters will be given a list of ideals to live up to (usually generated by the player themselves) and following those ideals grants XP. Character goals are a bit further-reaching, and increase their Tier from Novice to Veteran to Hero.

>>36050016
First tier should still be zero.

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>>36049998

For anybody that has not read the last thread, I really suggest you do so. We came up with a fuckload of things so far, and there is some crunch ideas lost amidst all the fluff. Check'em out (And vote)

>mfw there is a sudden influx of new people starting from the last thread and I have no idea where they all came from

>>36049941
Well, there was also Mama Odie's voodoo, but that seemed fundamentally different then Facilliers magic.

>>36049998
I think this bit about failure should be elaborated upon as a mechanic (good work, anon!). At what points in their adventures do the players experience these failures and how do they affect their characters on a gameplay level? How is the failure accomplished-simply throwing a task at them that's nearly impossible to accomplish?

>>36049998
But what do the characters gain with each level-up?
>>36049898
I personally think random-gen is a piece of shit, having lived with 3.pf for too long but I'm completely willing to bow to the crowd if people want random gen that badly. I just think Point buy is more balanced and fun, since you'll end up with a character you actually want.

>>36050049
Heh. we can go with that if you want, everything is a working title so far.

>>36050056

Shiiit. Didn't mean to quote.

>>36050057
Maybe it comes from swamp spirits, akin to the forest spirits and the totem spirits farther north and east?

>>36050049
Idea for level names.
>Zero
>On a Roll
>Hero

>>36050057
I think trying to quantify magic, including as it does voodoo, spirit shamanism, Facilier's hoodoo, fae magic of all kinds, Grimhilde's alchemy and mirror, Jafar's sorcery, the Black Cauldron's industrial necromancy, presumably the magic of the gods and the trident of Poseidon, Elsa's ice control, etc, might be an exercise in madness and/or futility.

>>36050065
Perhaps they could gain a certain number of attribute points and one or two skills of their choice?

Somewhat related: I think there should be a few skills or bonuses that are rewards for completing certain story arcs/quests. Like a holy blessing for ousting Frollo and bringing God back to the people of France that gives warding against devils. Or something.

>>36050094
I second this, it's a goddamn brilliant idea.

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>>36049715
finally a reason to post this

Reminder that the muses sing this as you free them and the rest of the good Greek gods from Tartarus


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYpz3abAk98

>>36050060
I was thinking that failure would flow organically from being a ragtag bunch of adventurers facing off against immortal sorcerer-kings with vast armies and powers beyond mortal ken.
>>36050132
I would think that they would improve in areas related to their failure. Did you fail because you weren't smooth-talking enough? You get better at that. Not fast enough? Get better at that.
Would be difficult to implement for an entire party, especially if there's no easily-defined point of failure, so your idea is probably better just from a crunch perspective.

>>36050132
I agree on the blessings, but I feel like that should be up to the GM of the game. Give some examples, sure, but nothing definitive.

>>36050056
Give us a bit more credit; last thread was almost all crunch discussion.

>>36049969
We can cross the following off the list: roles (we have 5 classes to fulfill those roles), Skills (kind of), and Attributes (Except we're still not sure how Will is gonna work.)

I'm going to hash up a quick 'character development path' that we should try to follow.

>>36050207
I like integrating "learning from one's mistakes" into the mechanics. That's a big Disney trope as well as good storytelling in general. We just gotta figure the darn thing out.

But like I said, I'm no crunch whiz. Starting to draw blanks here.

>>36050192
You know, the worst part about that is I first heard that song on gaben.tv and now I will never not think of the site when I hear it.

>>36050056

Shit. again.

I meant ALL the last threads, not just number six

>>36050238
We could always leave it as a recommended thing without any concrete mechanic. Learning from your mistakes in a gamist sense really does just boil down to boosting whatever caused the failure and there's no real single rule to ensure that considering how nebulous "failure" can be.

>>36050271
I think this is a good solution, at least for now. Alright,moving on fron leveling to... skills? Or did we already decide that those are settled mechanics-wise? Obviously the list needs expansion but that can come with the fluff later.

Some possible inspiration here.

http://jeftoon01.deviantart.com/gallery/11344500/Twisted-Princess

>>36050323
Skills will have a rating from 1 to 6. Rating 1 gives +3, rating 2 gives +4, rating 3 gives +5 etc. Rolls, as you know, are 3d6+attribute+skill.

>>36049715
>>36049737

As someone who didn't watch all the Disney movies growing up;

What's up with the huge spirit realm in North America? Who was the villain in those movies?

>>36050338
Alright, I see no issue there.

What's the difference between skills, attributes, and talents?

>>36050337
I think the Mulan piece he did actually inspired what our setting's Mulan is up to. There was talk (And a pretty good greentext story) earlier of her as an undead warrior hunting the huns and haunted by her bickering ancestors constantly yelling contradictory advice at her.

A tragic figure, more than an antagonist.

>>36050384

The Spirits from Pocahontas and Brother Bear fled that way when everything went to shit

I'm assuming now it's some faery-land level fuckery of the laws of reality

>>36050384
Brother Bear; it was more of an inner struggle mixed with a misunderstanding. The conflict was a Native American man trying to avenge his dead brothers, who were killed by bears... except one of them was actually transformed /into/ a bear as a way of forcing him to discover hidden depths to his character and finally grow up. Themes were brotherhood, family, and self-sacrifice.

I can't do it justice but it's actually really good. Highly recommend.

A thought on traits; instead of defining each trait individually, allow players to make up their own traits when in character creation or while leveling up, subject to GM approval, along a defined template to prevent things from getting crazy:
When [in situation/performing action] give bonus to [relevant skill] by [points in trait times math]. Progression should be faster than investing the same number of points in the skill, to make traits worthwhile. Variations on/departures from the template are, of course, acceptable given GM approval; it's there as a guideline.
This increases the amount of character customization possible, while preventing things from getting to broken and reducing the amount of work we have to do coming up with traits.
Thoughts?

>>36050388
Attributes and skills are really just different ways to say the same thing, but generally an Attribute is more core to your character than a skill is. Talents are bonuses to using a skill a specific way or a bonus in a specific area.

>>36050474
I mean, i guess? It just feels kind of lazy to shove it onto the players when they'd A: be doing that anyway and B: we should be providing generic traits.

>>36050474
Sounds good to me; I'm all for giving players more room to craft their own personal story within this very good and very well-defined campaign. Good balance of freedom and cinematic...ness.

>>36049969
For ideals
i think every hero/player needs A Good ideal and a Bad
since everyone is living in one dystopia or another, its fair to say that no-one not even the most purest of heroes, is perfect.

so In other words they they need both a selfless and selfish ideal

e.g. someone made Dr Falicier

The Dr's selfish ideal is Greed, he needs green and cares mainly about it
The Dr's Selfless ideal is Charity, since once he gets the dough, he wants to help fellow poor people like him...

For Judge Frollo
Frollo's selfless ideal Is Purity - he wants to make the world less corrupt and twistedwith gypsy scum
Frollo's selfish ideal is Lust - he also craves for some gypsy wench, and would go against all his other ideals just to get it.

Crunch wise - any situation that would align with their selfish ideal, they would get penalties whenever they go against it. They would also have to do the games equivilant of a will test to not fall into thier flaw.

They would get a bonus to their will when they are in a situation that aligns with their selfless ideal, and would get bonuses to their stats temporaily as long as they stick to the ideal.

>>36050506
Eh, it's a lot of work to make a full book of traits that covers all of these different stories. It'd be much more convenient to provide the rules for creating the traits and letting the players work it out.

If it was, like, an official sort of release and this was a project with a budget, then yeah there should be THE LIST. But in fanwank projects it's usually much better to keep it simple.

A timeline of character advancement, in general. Obviously, characters will advance differently than this in the final version but this is for discussion.
1st session:
Skill advance
Trait gain
Skill advance
Skill advance
Trait Gain
Skill advance
Attribute Gain
Skill advance
Trait Gain
Skill advance
Skill advance
Trait Gain
Skill advance
Attribute Gain
Skill Advance
Tier up?

Thoughts?

>>36050384
Well, when the mountains sing with all their voices, the songs are pretty much all hatred and rage. The lands twist and turn as vengeful spirits rise against trespassers. Every rock and tree and creature has a life, has a spirit, has a name.

>>36050533
You're going to have difficulty giving Maleficent, Horned King and Grimhilde good ideals. Maleficent kills people for little to no reason, the Horned King wants to kill everyone in the world and resurrect them as Cauldron Born to be worshipped as God of the Dead and Grimhilde is terrifyingly vain, I bet she thinks that song is about her,

>>36050566
I like the frequent increases since things will ultimately culminate in taking down the Black God... but one session seems a little low. There's gonna be a lot of work to do before that point and we don't want the players getting too powerful too fast.

>>36050595
>Has a life, has a spirit, has a name
my primary negroid compatriot

>>36050596
No, I put it badly. I was going to do an entire timeline, but that should be roughly 1 increase of something, possibly 2 a session. At the end of the timeline i was going to cap it with final session.

>>36050632
Ah, i see. In that case it looks workable to me.

>>36050595
i only use the villains as an example, since the player characters are usually hereos.
maleficent was actually good before she went nuts.

>>36050755
The Angelina Jolie film was ruled out of canon in Thread 3 or thereabouts.

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I feel like this picture gives off good vibes of what we're looking for in Prince John's realm, a small ass resistance fighting against what can't be stopped.

Alright guys. Love the work that's been done so far but I gotta go. Good night! Can't wait to catch up in the morning.

>>36050506
Right.
First ideas for traits:
Distraction (Subset of Bluff): Bonus when drawing enemies' attention away from other party members or friendly NPCs.
Demolitionist (Subset of Science, or perhaps Mechanics): bonus when destroying fixed structures.
Nobody Could Have Survived That (Subset of Acrobatics): Bonus when jumping off of high places to your apparent death, being inside an exploding volcano lair, or other blatantly unsurvivable situations.
Out of their hands (Subset of Ranged): Bonus when shooting weapons out of people's hands.
Water-Cooler Conversations (Subset of Insight): Bonus to all information-gathering in populated areas.
The Innsmouth Look (Subset of Occult, Persuasion): Bonus to diplomatic interactions with supernatural entities.
Dowser (Subset of Travel): Bonus to surviving in desert and other potable-water-scarce environments.
One Of Those Faces (Subset of Stealth): Bonus to remaining un-noticed in populated environments.
Riot Act (Subset of Brawl): Bonus to creating chaos- barfights, riots, whatever- in which to escape.

We probably shouldn't create a complete list of traits, but a few sample traits would be helpful to indicate to players what a good trait looks like.

>>36051183
I sort of agree, but I think we should have a comprehensive list of sample traits.

A nice rounded list of general traits that can kind of do everything, so that players who don't want to craft their own can just pick from the list and not be significantly punished for it, while players who do make their own can get traits that fit their character better and thus be rewarded for their effort.

>>36051183
No reason to not create a pile of generic traits as long as we have the ideas; these are certainly some good ones.
Honestly, we should have a couple for every setting and ~30? 40? generic ones.

Anyway, character creation.
Everyone will have 25(? needs to be at least 20) points to spend on improving attributes, and all attributes start at 4. 1 point improves an attribute by one step. No fancy stuff here. Then they gain 10 points to divide among their Class skills as they see fit, capped at rank 4 at character creation, and chooses three (two?) traits. Sound good?

>>36051329
Right, brainstorming setting traits. Decided to give some of them maluses as well, but I'm not too attached to them.
>Kingdom of the Cauldron
Black Lungs: Years of living in the mist of the Black Cauldron have hardened and scarred your lungs. Near-immunity to atmospheric poisons and irritants. However, athletics is reduced by one, due to constant mild shortness of breath.
Dead Walking: You're very familiar with the undead. Fear-based strikes from undead are reduced one level.
>Archdiocesis
Fires of Faith: One good thing about living under Frollo- you get very, very devout. Damage dealt to non-corporeal entities is increased one step.
Stench of the Witch: You can /smell/ when subtle, evil magics are afoot. Or any magic, really, but even after escaping the Archdiocese you still reflexively classify all magic as evil. Bonus to Insight when detecting magic.
>Fae Lands
Like A Fox From The Hounds: You're very, very good at running. Have to be, to escape the Wild Hunts. Bonus to athletics and acrobatics both.
The Laws Of Distant Realms: As any good folklorist can tell you, the fey have /rules/. Nonsense rules, but rules nonetheless. Bonus to Occult Knowledge and diplomacy with the more lawful types of spirits.
>Holy Roman Empire
In Plain Sight: Living under the panopticon has made you very, very good at hiding things in plain view. Bonus to sleight of hand.
Slaves' Cant: Every oppressed population, every resistance, has developed a secret language with which to sneak languages past their masters. Bonus to diplomacy with secret societies and in heavily-surveilled and oppressive realms.
>Olympus
Titan's Tread: the constant destruction wreaked by the passing of Titans has made you very adept at building quickly, with limited materials. Bonuses to crafting.

>>36051849
What does "one step" mean when increasing damage? I think, realistically, you should just be able to hurt non-corporeal entities without having to fulfill one of the usual bullshit requirements (using silver, holy water, etc) to actually HURT them.
I'm not sure I like the penalty from Black Lungs, but it's a darn minor penalty unless it actually reduces your skill level.

These are good though, bonuses should range from +2 for a weak bonus to +4 for a strong bonus.

>>36051849
Whispers of Tartarus: In Hades' realm, the lands of the living and the dead intermingle oddly. If you tilt your ear just right, you can hear the mutters of the long dead- and if you pitch your voice just right, you can ask them questions. Bonus to Occult and Academics.
>Bald Mountain (very tentative)
Speak Not His Name: Speaking of Chernobog does not draw his attention.
Gaze Of The Abyss: Immunity to all fear effects. Your unnerving manner, however, incurs a penalty to diplomacy with flesh-and-blood humans (except when Intimidating, which receives bonuses instead).
I see inhabitants of Bald Mountain as just having pretty much all emotion burned out of them. Like Kriegers, but even worse.
>Ardelle (Wait, do people actually live here? I thought it was totally deserted)
Land of the Midnight Sun: Bonuses to survival and travel in cold regions, for obvious reasons.
Hibernation: Can enter a state of suspended animation, in which the player can take no action but in which environmental requirements are negligible.
>Pleasure Island
Not a clue.
>Pridelands
Palace Coup in the Animal Kingdom (tentative name): In such a hostile environment, cooperation is required to survive- and so is being willing to jettison dead weight at a moments' notice. Pack politics is hideous, even among the herbivores. Bonus to abject sycophancy towards superiors, and Intimidation towards inferiors.
Down To The Squeal: Squeamishness about what you eat and drink was rather radically selected against. Environmental requirements for survival are halved.
>Land of the Leopard
No idea.
>Dino Island
No idea.
>Elite Global Huntsman Club
Relentless: Once you've caught wind of your prey, you will never let them go. Bonus to tracking, and survival while in the course of the hunt. (Not, however, while you're not hunting.)
>>36052137
"One step" here refers to the three-strikes damage system, but I've been keeping things deliberately vague.

>>36052198
I'd learn towards all of these being strong bonuses- possibly even +6- but not upgradeable. Willing to be convinced otherwise.
>Elite Global Huntsman Club, cont.
Think Like The Tiger: The key to a successful hunt is the ability to think like your prey- to predict them, and always be one step ahead. Bonus to gathering information about who or what you intend to kill.
>Hunnic Empire
Ancestor's Hand: Your ancestors are very interested in making sure you live long enough to give them grandchildren, dammit. They can intercede in the mortal world (once per day? Session? Encounter?) to reduce (possibly negate?) an incoming attack.
Small Gods Speak: Everything has a spirit. Gatehouses. Gravestones. Stoves and hearths. The walls have ears, and if you know how to bribe them- with stories, with alcohol, with simple respect- you can hear what they've heard. Massive bonus to information gathering, but you need to be in contact with what you're talking to, which might be tricky.
>Everything Africa
Don't know.
>Eastern Co-Prosperity Sphere (Syndicate just sounds weird) (extremely tentative)
Script Kiddie: You have a knack for computers and robotics. Bonus to Mechanics and Science dealing with self-directing technology.
School of Hard Shocks: Growing up in the slums has made you very adept at moving through them. Bonuses to stealth and travel while moving through shit urban environments.
>Imperial Republic of Atlantis
Manifest Destiny: You are absolutely convinced that you (well, President Rourke, but if you had elections you'd totally vote for him) are going to conquer the world and turn it into a shining example of progress, and this raw confidence is infectious. Either bonuses to inspiring speeches, inciting revolution, leading mobs, etc. or a constant passive bonus to the morale of allies, haven't decided.

>>36050854
ah fair enough

The 1d4 wiki shows that half of South America is empty.

Should we include Up? Charles F. Muntz and his dogs were a fairly menacing enemy.

>>36052497
>Sunless Empire
BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT: You're good with potions. Either from factory work or making fake(r) life extending potions, you gain a bonus to scientific shenanigans involving dangerous liquids in fragile containers.
Junior Chipmunk: By popular demand, Animal has become an officially recognized language. You gain a bonus to learning animal languages or their dialects.

>>36052643
he was a suprisingly good villain
though hed just be another member of the hunters club

>>36052643
That's not a bad idea, but isn't he, like, dead?

>>36052677
Shadowlands:
Everything has a price: Large bonus to identifying how much something would be worth with Insight.
Workable?

>>36052685
First time looking at this, still going through the archive here, but does Cruella have a place in all this? I'd imagine her commissioning the Hunter's Club for all sorts of rare and expensive creatures.

>>36052692
this is if the villains suceeded otherwise 90% of villains here would be.

>>36052700
No, he's like, 92 and isn't functionally immortal like Yzma. He breaks his hip during the movie just walking down the hall.

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Here's a lesser-known spot (Bedknobs and Broomsticks). Not sure what its Villain fate would be though, the King seems to be just a sore loser more than anything, maybe something connected to Prince John.

>>36052692
>The Shadowlands
Everything has a Price: Having an eye for detail can save your life and then some. You gain a bonus to determining the value of an object.
Yeah, I think it can work.

>>36052497
Heart of Prometheus: There is no power on Earth, Heaven, or Hell that Atlantean ingenuity cannot harness. Bonus to anything involving Occult and Mechanics/Science simultaneously.
>Shadowlands
A Man Pays His Dues: Your word is your bond; your blood flows through every promise you make. When you swear to someone that you will do something, you gain bonuses to everything in the pursuit of it, but fail- and the Other Side will take a part of your soul. Mechanically represented by permanent stat penalties; you lose a level for failure. Strength of effect might vary; a minor commitment brings only minor boosts and temporary penalties for failure, but promising to succeed or die- and you'll succeed or die. Opinions?
>Spirit Realm
No clue.
>DOOMtown (assuming DOOMroads interpretation)
On A Steel Horse: When passing through the DOOMroads, you inexplicably gain a motorcycle. (Or, if you want to be boring, you just get places faster.)
The Back Roads: You can find a DOOMroad anywhere. In the dead-end alley, in the attic, in the bottom of a barrel; doesn't matter. There's always a back road.
>Tzekel-Kan
No clue.
>The Sunless Empire
Monumental: Years of hard labor on pointless monuments (and possibly a bit of wildly unethical mass human experimentation of alchemy) have made you strong and huge. Bonus to Robustness.
Dark of the Noon: It's not called the Sunless Empire for no reason. Massive bonus to navigating in the dark.
Wait, I hear you ask. If there's no sun, how do they grow food? That's an excellent question!
>Never-Never Land
Throw Yourself at the Ground and Miss: You can fly? Holy shit, you can fly! Takes a bit of concentration, though, so try not to get distracted.
More a State of Mind: Neverland isn't really a place. All you need to do is get yourself in the right frame of mind, jump out a window, and there you are.
>Royal Colony of Virginia
I dunno, lol.

>>36052777
For Virginia, maybe something about resisting magic and fear effects? Ties less into Pocahontas and more into the fact that they live next to Black Luisiana with muskets and cannons and have not been absorbed.

>>36052777
>Tzekel-Kan
Self-Sacrifice: The benevolent Tzekel-Kan demands sacrifice from all his subjects, one way or another. When forced to suffer a blow, pay a tribute or anything else demanded of you, you cannot refuse, but you gain a morale boost after doing so (big bonus to Will or something else for a while).

>>36052692
His legacy could live on in various forms.
He could have a dynasty that inherit his ideas, or somehow brainwash Russel during the original Up storyline who himself does onto another child in an endless cycle, the dogs could be the actual group controlling and Muntz this sort of founder/god figure.

Obviously the system works best with a singular figure, a well defined geography, and a fundamental ideology backing it. Just my two cents.

>>36052777
>The Wild West
The Cannon Law: No law can be enforced further than the range of a good rifle. Your disdain for authority is so brazen, the Rule of each land applies less to you.
Live By The Gun: Guns are like duct tape; you can do practically anything with one. Apply half (a quarter? Maybe a flat +2 or +4?) of your Ranged skill to any other task, as long as you can provide a vaguely plausible reason why it would apply. (The sound of gunshots is perfect for echolocating!)
>Ursula's Domain
No clue.
>>36052827
Maybe, but I can't think of anything really unique along those lines.

>>36052777
Eeh. Shadowlands trait seems potent, but all i can see is the face of a smug, greasy-as-fuck GM saying "So you want to play a paladin, huh?"
Also, Wow, Neverneverland's bonuses are incredibly, monstrously powerful. Might need to be toned down a bit.

>>36052885
Yeah, I can see both of those.
For Neverland, flight is extremely finicky; you need to be at full health and able to devote your full concentration to it, so it can't really be used in combat, except as a last-ditch pull-this-off-or-die escape. As to More A State Of Mind, I'm not really attached to it. Can't really think of a good alternative.
As to Shadowlands, the 'Know the Price of Things' seems like it would work better as a trait, and A Man Pays His Dues is something unlocked with sufficient Occult: Shadowlands knowledge. Or it's simply very difficult to establish a contract with the Other Side, so you're going to have to offer something up, win or lose, just to open the connection. End of the campaign, someone who used it frequently would just be a hollow shell of a man, having sacrificed everything for victory.
>all i can see is the face of a smug, greasy-as-fuck GM saying "So you want to play a paladin, huh?"
The appropriate response is, "We're playing a Disney campaign in which the ultimate goal is to kill motherfucking Satan. There is literally nothing else I could possibly play."

> Have an amateur idea

For Combat, Enemies will have two Stats: Pain and Punishment/Brevity.

Pain is obviously the amount of damage an enemy can inflict on you.

Punishment is the amount of damage an enemy can receive from you. It does not necessarily mean their physical fortitude, for it could also mean their mental fortitude. For clarity, both will be regarded as the same.

Now here's my idea. If you could lower an enemy's Punishment, his Pain would also be affected and vice versa.

Reducing the enemy's Punishment/Pain doesn't always have to mean combat. For example, if I could play Elsa and she has an encounter, she could use her freezing powers to momentarily freeze an opponent's leg to the ground for a few rounds, thereby reducing his Punishment.

You could also use mentally-affecting ways to reduce an opponent's Punishment/Pain. For example, if I enter combat, I could summon Shoggoth-esque abominations to traumatize my opponent, or use a hallucination-inducing smoke bomb that induces an extreme sense of euphoria, rendering him harmless. None of these options have to kill or maim a person to reduce their punishment.

> So there's my two cents /tg/.

>>36053014
Good ideas, but at the moment we're running off an assumption for a '3 strikes' system where you have three fuckups before something actually bad happens to you. Not sure how we could crowbar this in.

>>36052965
I mean, yeah, but it's kind of the principle of the thing. A bad or dickish GM could easily put you in a position where you can't fulfill your oath so you have to do his shitty 'redemption' story.

>>36053047
Kind of hard to do a redemption story when failure involves straight-up getting part of your soul eaten and absolutely nothing beyond that. Although I suppose that nuance would be lost on a bad GM.

To <Nobody Important>

Thanks for the info, sir.

Maybe it can be implemented for a simpler version of the game, perhaps?

Anyways, how does the three strikes system work?

>>36053228
Well, the three strikes are to avoid the hit point bloat that comes with a lot of games, but D&D in particular. Basically, if something very bad happens, you lose one of your three strikes. Once you're out of strikes, the next bad thing that happens to you 'defeats' you. This could be falling unconscious, having a mental breakdown, dying, et cetera. In combat, every time an attacker scores a hit, you lose one of your three strikes. That's.... pretty much it, it's designed to be as simple as possible. The only complicating factor is that in true disney fashion, weapons aren't the only way of hurting a villain; using the environment or even talking at your opponent can hurt them in the same way.

To <Nobody Important>

I've seen the three strikes idea in one of the threads, and I see it has its merits.

However, does the three strikes idea apply to enemies and NPC's? Because I have no clue if it does, or doesn't.

>>36053346
High-level enemies, yes, high-level NPCs, yes, mooks (on either side) probably not.

To <Nobody Important>

While it's simple, the strike is confusing. Is it a state after you lose enough health, or is it the health points itself? If so, can you upgrade yourself to have more strikes?

I guess it would be simpler to instead use the three strikes as your HP, and use armor as a way to enhance your strikes?

Any thoughts on this, sir?

>>36053404
Um. why are you not just replying?
Anyway; The strikes ARE your HP. We're designing a narrativist game here rather than a simulationist, so we didn't want people to be bogged down by the minutiae of hit points and armor ratings, etc etc. The strikes are to fulfill the classic Disney style of near-death during fights but heroes rarely becoming actually, seriously wounded during a battle. Armor, as it (barely) exists in this point basically allows you to ignore strikes from weapons too weak to actually hurt you when wearing it, or adds to your defensive roll against being hurt.

Anyway, I think it would be great to re-purpose the three strikes as your health instead. Takes all the guesswork out of combat. Would armor serve as the benchmark of damage a character could take until he eventually loses gains a strike?

I don't know how to reply, I'm new to the site sir.

>>36053459
But, like, the three strikes ARE your health. They're the buffer zone you have between dodging a sword hit nimbly with a quip and a smile, and having three feet of smoldering black steel in your gut while a demonic servant laughs at you while you slowly bleed out. We're just... not using traditional hitpoints.
Armor is mostly a bonus, and we haven't worked it out entirely yet because of the extremely wide variety of possible armor types, from iron armor to literal powered armor from Atlantis.

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>>36052777
Forgot
>Sultanate of Agrabah
Whim of the Mad God: Living under the capricious decrees of the Sorcerer-Sultan Jafar has made you sensitive to the actions of the King and the Rule. You get an Insight bonus on predicting where and how the Rule will strike, and a Stealth bonus to avoiding the King's notice.
Lifeblood of Empires: Every market in the Sultanate is a black market, and you know smugglers and mafias like the back of your hand. No matter where you are, no matter what you want, you've got a good chance of finding someone willing to sell it to you. Or a very affordable camel-based alternative. Can ignore Realm restrictions on what equipment is available and find the rarest objects; only a minor bonus to Barter, however.
>>36053478
You click on the post number.

I don't know how to reply, I'm new to the site sir. Please pardon my ignorance of the site's features

>>36053497
Click the number in the upper right of a post. It'll add something like >>36053497 but without the (you) which works as a reply.

To <Nobody Important>

So, if you get attacked, you automatically get a first strike? That would kill characters really fast.

But if I'm wrong, just explain to me.

>>36050077
Seems reasonable. All voodoo is spirit-magic, but depending on what you use it for, different kinds of spirits are going to want in on it.

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Hasn't been much talk of Wonderland in here. Is it considered a kingdom with the Queen of Hearts as its bloodthirsty ruler, severed from reality like a head from its body?
Are the links of Wonderland smattered throughout the world in the places where it bleeds through (for example the Mad Tea Party intruding on Big Ben for tea time)?
Do its inhabitants even notice, since the Queen had a fairly free reign from the start? Maybe the Cheshire Cat is the only one who cares, and tries to lure the PCs to fix the bleeding, one anomaly at a time. Only once everything's patched up can Wonderland be journeyed to.

>>36053581
When attacked, you roll your defense against their offense. Your defense roll would be 3d6+attribute used (usually Agility or Sensibility)+Dodge/whatever social skill is relevant.

This result is what the attacker needs to get over with their own roll of 3d6+attribute+skill(or just 3d6+attribute+3 for mooks) to score a strike on you. Villains will have strikes, but Mooks will die or be defeated upon receiving even a single strike because honestly, they're just not that important or interesting.

about when strikes are removed; I'm not sure yet, I'll have to bring it up again later when this place is hopping again.

>>36053600
Are... are we even using wonderland?
That's something that eluded me.

>>36050337
I admit, I got a boner

>>36053618
Think it was shown on the big cosmic map, but wasn't mentioned past that.

Hmmm... That is actually a really intuitive rule. I would love to see this game in shelves and shops.

So to defend, you gotta roll. When you fall the roll, you get a strike. Okay.

I'll post tomorrow. Besides, I got nothin' to contribute.

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I've been trying to draw a map based on some anons ms-paint thing a few thread back, and I figured I might as well ask what /tg/ thinks before I sink more time into it. Besides, I want to avoid drawing myself into a corner. I'm not really sure what to do with the real world and hades, and whether there are any other realms that should be included.

>>36053776
Olympus and Hades can both be in the main world. Olympus was just on top of the mountain, and old Greek myth says you can get to the Underworld through a cave in Cape Tenaro.

>>36052717
He gets an immortality potion or something from one of the other villains.
That, or he just hangs out with the Hunters anyway. He can't hunt, but he's got plenty of interesting stories about his experiences.

>>36053776
>>36053824

Always felt that Wonderland and Neverland (or Netherlands??? t. bad joke) could be portrayed like those old esoteric maps.

I think Hellboy has a few pages where it shows some sort of occult geography that puts far-realms beyond the True North... Only accessible if you have the power/privilege/invitation

>>36053824

If peoples souls go to Hades when they die, it ought to be connected to Wonderland and Neverland as well, so having it be a huge-ass bowl underneath everything else doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Agreed on Olympus though.

>>36053600
If Wonderland is included than its easy to pick up at the end of the newer movie if Alice failed to kill the Jabberwocky

Isn't Big Hero 6 technically a Marvel film? Should we be including it, considering we aren't including the Avengers?

>>36053856
>old esoteric maps
Got any examples?

>>36053927
Yeah, and we aren't including Lilo and Stitch, Wall-E or Toy Story either. May as well leave it out.

As a side idea. What if you could have different "armors" on you? A physical one to protect from blades, a "supportive phrase" from a dear friend you got during the campaign to defend against emotional pain, a "warm memory" from a particular moment in the campaign to protect against social isolation.

Such as TTGL when the anti-spiral taunts Simon. He remembers Kamina's words to ignore the message to give up and the memory of his crew together to ignore the taunt of being alone in this fight.

>>36053698
>>36053618
I still think we should have degrees of strikes. If you get one strike from getting stabbed with a dagger and one strike from getting slapped in the face with the force of a thousand suns by the hand of Chernobog, it just doesn't seem right to me.

>>36054031
On the other hand, it cleans up a lot of aesthetically very ugly area that we'd otherwise have to rather unfittingly give to Ursula.

On the other, other hand, it's tech level is way above that of even the next highest area.

>>36054038
Certainly an idea. But how would that work in the context of the system? Ideas, ideas....

>>36054044
But that strike isn't you getting slapped across the face by satan, it's you dodging it, not being hit, or miraculously surviving. Besides, if we have 'degrees of strikes' then we rapidly bleed into hit point bloat.

>>36054044
Daggers can still do some pretty hefty damage. Just ask Flynn Rider or Beast.

>>36053485
I'd say that the main differences between armour are penalties to Nimbleness and bonuses to Defence. Maybe some other special properties for each armour, like Atlantean powered armour could have a filtration system that lets you survive underwater. Makes sense, since, you know, Atlantis.
>>36054056
>But that strike isn't you getting slapped across the face by satan, it's you dodging it, not being hit, or miraculously surviving. Besides, if we have 'degrees of strikes' then we rapidly bleed into hit point bloat.
Dude, you need to get the idea of "hit point bloat" out of your head. Everyone has three hit points. That is a good system. Look at Mutants and Masterminds, it worked there. Having a lot of hit points is not necessarily a bad thing, anyway. I know you want to keep it rules-light, but there are limits.
>>36054065
I know, but compared to Chernobog hitting you?

>>36054056
Oh, the armors were related to the strikes. Much as how physical armor stops attacks from giving you strikes, the metaphorical armors stop the strikes caused from mental and social attacks.

>>36054056
Nobody, you seem to be acting like if we make any simulationist mechanics, we'll turn into 3.5. This slope isn't all that slippery, you know.

>>36054079
Hell, Chernobog might need special rules just for his encounter. Pretty unique to the setting.

>>36054091
Why not use something like Dramatic Scenes in Fantasy Craft? Basically, it makes it so that scenes automatically become higher-lethality if certain enemies appear. Basically any King could do that, but especially Chernobog.

>>36053485
Since this is Disney, the main purpose of armor should instead be to grant effects when certain conditions are met, such as being in the first strike, or failing a roll, because I certainly see that armor would be relatively ineffective towards otherworldly powers that the main villains command. However the higher level armor could contribute to rolls and such. For example:

Mk. II " Atlas " Power Armour
Effect: On first strike, increase Robustness by + 3, and Agility by +2
On second strike, increase Robustness by Robustness by +4, and Agility by +3
On third strike, increase Robustness by +5, and Agility by +4
Special Effect, Suicidal Rage: On any strike, choose an enemy. That enemy is killed, but suffer a penalty to all rolls.

>>36054134
The penalty is -5

>>36054134
My idea was that you could have magic defense, for shit like spells or Fae weapons, energy defense for non-physical, non-magical weaponry like the fires of a burning building or Atlantean ray guns, and Physical defense for conventional melee weapons or bullets.

>>36054110
Maybe? A major boss would be able to 2 or 1-shot people that way.

>>36054184
And that's exactly what a major boss SHOULD be able to do. There's a reason the party should never take on a King alone.

>>36054090
Can't sleep, wizards will get me...

>>36054230
You don't need to fear your bad experiences with wizards any more. It's okay. We have 4th edition and 5th edition now, they're both great. Fifth might break later on, but it's good for now.

>>36054031
>Lilo and Stitch
Alien base on Hawaii

>Wall-E
Event Horizon, meet Auto.
Auto, meet Even Horizon

>Toy Story
Some junkjard full of discarded toys or something

>>36054254
Why would the Intergalactic Council have any interest in Earth? They only came here to get Stitch. If this is the Bad End, chances are they just took Stitch and fucked off.

>>36054056
Maybe it depends on your "level"?
Like, if you're a Zero, as shown here: >>36050094 a dagger slash counts as a strike. If you're an hero, only a critical hit (if we're doing those) counts.

The problem with this is that higher level character can eat through mooks like they're candy, but maybe that's the point.

>>36054266
Or it's a quarantine for Stitch who's gone full Space-Hulk after the loss of Lilo

>>36054268
How many levels are in each category? I vote 5 each. 15 levels work.
>>36054274
Possible, but I think Hawaii already belongs to Atlantis. They'd probably take him down after a while with their tech. Or they'd just weaponise him and throw him at their enemies when shit goes down.

>>36053600
>>36053618

I was under the impression that Wonderland, as presented in the 1951 Disney film, was more of a dream construct than anything else. Therefore, it'd make sense for PCs to only be able to access it when they fell asleep, perhaps in certain areas, and perhaps without even realising that they'd fallen asleep. Naturally, since it's utterly detached from anything else in the setting, it'd probably still be the same deranged status quo present in the film. Or, y'know, films... since there's two of those. No idea how they'd fit together, if at all, but...

On a completely different topic, since this is a niggling factor for me, I'm about 95% certain that the villain of Frozen is Hans, not Elsa. Elsa's just the unfortunate with the ice powers.

>>36054290
Where is Atlantis anyways?
Seeing as Hawaii is in the pacific, and atlantis...well in the Atlantic

>>36054291
Originally it was supposed to be Elsa, going full loco due to her powers, but when they added her voice actor to the cast, they sorta went 180 and made her good/but misunderstood.

That's why the movie feels like it doesnt really have a bad guy.

>>36054291
Elsa was originally intended to be a villain, Also, two things:
1) Elsa can be redeemed, since all that's making her a threat is her grief for her sister.
2) Elsa is just a way cooler villain than Hans. Like, you can have the normal medieval politician, or you can have the insane ice queen who just freezes everything in her path.
>>36054299
I personally have no idea where Hawaii is. I'm a Britfag. They didn't teach me about American geography.

>>36054134
>>36054150
Penalty being -5 would work, but should we make it more severe? Also, presumably the "instant kill" effect would only be a single strike (or possibly two, depending on how devastating you want it to be) against villains with more than one strike.

It's an interesting idea to have armor that gives bonuses based on how wounded you are. The bonuses are strong-but-good on first and second strike, but +5 robustness means an almost guaranteed kill on 3d6 against any reasonable enemy, because it's +1.5d6 on top of your already 3d6. Perhaps we should lower the bonuses to a +2-3-4 like they are with Agility?

In fact, I'm going to have to steal the idea of varying bonuses based on current number of strikes left for a few trait ideas. Hope you don't mind.

>>36054079
Well, Chernabog is sort of a special foe anyway, and most of the Kings are going to need special rules and won't just be generic combat.

>>36054291
Frozen really doesn't have a villain until the last 20 minutes. Originally, Elsa was going to be the villain but they removed her late in the production cycle.

>>36054290
15 levels of strikes? That's... a bit unpleasant. I'd rather stick to as little fiddling with hitpoints as possible when it could be easily managed with traits that are only available at certain tiers, making you nigh-immune to the pathetic assaults of lesser mooks.

>>36054299
Atlantis is a shitload of coastal territories in the Americas not taken up by the pan-asian cooperative or pirates.

>>36054268
I think this is an ideal system and keeps things flowing. Though I would argue that the narrative and mechanical aspects of the game should sort of arrive to the same point at roughly the same time. A person who reaches hero tier should thematically be nearing the end of his arc in the campaign.

>>36054311
No, 15 levels of levelling up. You don't gain an extra strike every level.
Also, you think 15 is a lot? Really?

>>36054309
>I personally have no idea where Hawaii is. I'm a Britfag. They didn't teach me about American geography.
Which is sad, seeing as it used to be a pseudo-british possession to begin with.

Hawaii is in the pacific, between Japan and the US

>>36054311
I still don't think the Pan-Asian Cooperative should be a thing, if we aren't making films like Toy Story or the other modern films canon for the setting. Let's not try and make our tech levels even more confusing.

>>36054316
>you think 15 is a lot?
Yes. Yes I do, given that so far we've been working off the Rule of Three with pretty much everything.

Also, so far with what little progression system we've even conceptualized, levels aren't really a thing. You've got the tiers, but there's only three tiers. Zero>On-a-roll>Hero.

>>36054325
>hades fucks around with the titans
>one of the titans is his daddy
>chronos, the big 'o fuck it's him' guy from greek mythos
>fucks with time
>anachronistic geographical fuckery everywhere
there, done

>>36054291
Keeping Wonderland as a dream world with no connection to the real thing is pretty boring. Maybe it could be a matter of speculation: occult scholars debate wheter or not Wonderland can influence the real world. On the one hand, no reliable source (as in: no one who would be considered sane) has ever seen it. On the other hand, sometimes bizarre creatures are seen around Victorian Asylums and mirror houses, who seem to coincide with the descriptions of certain raving lunatics...


This has already being brought up in precedent threads: while it is true that Hans is the villain, he wouldn't be as interesting as a grief-struck mad Ice Queen, so we're ignoring him.

>>36054343

How about being UNDER England?

I mean; Alice goes there via rabbit hole

And the Cauldron Borne are digging everywhere

Kinda like a Lost World type deal

To mantain our rule of three theme, I say we use 3 strikes for a zero, 6 for a on-a-roll, 9 for heroes. How's that?

>>36054325
I think people wanted it in because it's the most recent Disney movie and as always, we struggle for relevance.
>>36054331
Chronos is sadly different from Cronos, who actually fucked with time. But we all know Hercules didn't give a single solitary fuck about being correct, so it could work.

So what's going on with Arthur and Merlin in this setting, and what happened to all the heroes and princesses?

>>36054377
>Chronos is sadly different from Cronos
The more you know™

>>36054150
We should also factor the races which the classes would portray. For example, a pirate combat monster would be more focused on close combat action and agility than robustness. A combat monster in Facilier's land would be more focused on Robustness, but also prioritize an above average Intelligence than other combat monsters. Just throwing in my two cents again, but also we need to realize that the place in which the PC's lived in should affect how they should play. An Atlantean combat monster would pay more focus on ranged and melee attacks, but lag behind on the other stats.

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>>36054387
There was talk of having Merlin be a wandering sage trying to bring the various heroes of the world together.
Mulan is apparently an half-insane zombie haunted by dozens of ancestors all shouting suggestions at the same time.
We haven't decided what to do with other heroes, but I imagine that most are dead or worse.

>>36054418
The important thing though...is Jasmine in red and at the foot of Jaffar?

>>36054311
It's cool. Love to contribute to this project of /tg/.

>>36054418
but wouldn't simply killing the good guys rob the setting of potential stories?

>>36054418
>There was talk of having Merlin be a wandering sage trying to bring the various heroes of the world together.
This would be excellent. It's so in character for Merlin as well.

>>36054413
If you have some suggestions, we're all ears.

That being said, we've mostly got that with the point-buy style of system we're hashing out so far, so you can build your character however you want to focusing on whatever stats you see fit, customized with traits (either generic or personalized) and played with your own flair.
Also keep in mind that no skill is tied to any particular attribute but instead are given an attribute with what you're trying to pull off with that skill.

>>36054437
Most are corpses. Some are alive. Ultimately, it's up to the GM to decide which ones are alive and which are dead. Personally, I favor Captain Jack still being alive, but we don't really talk about POTC here.

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>>36054437
The important thing isn't the Disney's heroes stories: it's the PCs'. Everything in this setting needs to contribute to creating a better story, yes, but one where the players are the main characters. Adding people who are already protagonists has the risk of robbing them of the spotlight.

>>36054462
understandable,but I figure that in-universe the PC's don't know that these people were the protagonists who were "supposed to win".From their perspective they are just one of many people who failed to defeat a specific villain

Reposting my idea for 100 Acre Woods from the last thread because most probably missed it...

>The Hundred Acre Woods are the only perfectly fine place in the world. I can't bring myself to kill Winnie the Pooh, and I'm the guy advocating the deaths of the heroes and pushing HK.


>>36048698
But wouldn't it be neat to have some campaign ideas for the 100 Acre Woods, too?

Let's assume Christopher Robin is the King of 100 Acre Woods. He's gone missing. One of the early movies, Pooh's Great Adventure, reveals that the people in the 100 Acre Woods live in peace, as long as Christopher Robin is there, and he has some form of bravery-inducing power, as proven by the difference in the Skull Cave before and after Pooh finds Christopher.

So picture this. The King, Christopher Robin, has vanished, and the 100 Acre Woods are growing more and more frightening by the minute. The peaceful natives have struck an alliance with the Heffalumps and Woozles, in fear of the reently more active Skullasauri. There's even rumors that something worse lurks out there, something even the Skullasauri run from in abject terror...

>>36054375
While I like the thematic concept of the rule of three, this still has the problem of making the players way too tanky, way too fast given that most hits by mooks and the environment are going to be one strike apiece. So even at on-a-roll, you could tank a veritable mountain of foes if you also include your increasing attributes and skills, or shout down a legion of naysayers. If we HAVE to add strikes as people tier up, adding one would probably be the best -- MAYBE two, if we want the PCs to be fighting swathes of enemies once they get off their training boots.

>>36054480
100 acres woods only exists in his head though

Ok, I'm back.

>>36054044

Not every hit deals one strike: some attacks can deal more than one strike. We had decided that passing your to hit roll with a wide margin would increase the strikes you would deal, while some very big monsters autmoatically deal more than one strike with every hit they score.

Cernobog should deal four strikes with every hit he scores, because Cernobog.

>>36054377
Well, we already have Elsa, so we're fairly relevant. Frozen hype hasn't died down just yet, thanks to Tumblr. Tumblr and all the world's little gir- wait, no I already said Tumblr.

>>36054488
>We had decided that passing your to hit roll with a wide margin would increase the strikes you would deal, while some very big monsters autmoatically deal more than one strike with every hit they score.
Good, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

>>36054488
If we're really going to do this 'more strikes for critical hits' thing, the actual math will need to be worked out proper. I think getting +6 on what you need to hit could work, but it could also lead to PC's getting BTFO by mooks rolling very well when they roll poorly.

Still, Chernobog should instantly (or nigh-instantly, if they're built to be a tough SOB) gib players, I agree.

>>36054413
Like this:

Combat Monster: Pirate

Attributes:
Robustness: 5
Agility: 8
Intelligence:4
Charm:5
Will:3

Skills won't be included

Traits:
Close cooperation: After the Pirate Lords allied with the Atlantean Empire, both sides have agreed to help each other in case of attack. Gain +2 in any action with an Atlantean Vessel.

Magical Speed Enhancements: Lord Commodore Hook have spread his magic to all his crews, granting them a +2 in agility, but only usable twice. Can be replenished at nearby pirate bays.

Ideals:

Stake out your name: If this pirate has gained a reputation, grant a +3 bonus on his Charm
Commodore of own ship: If this pirate gains a full-fledged decent ship, grant a +3 bonus on his sensibility.
Successor of the Lord Commodore: If he will be the chosen successor of Lord Commodore Hook, grant +6 to all stats

>>36054431

She's been trained well, this time around. The genie provided to it.

>>36054535
Combat Monster is kind of a crap class name. How about just Fighter or Warrior?

>>36054483

Dream realm then, like Wonderland.

>>36054509
>chernobog
>god of darkness 'n shit
>slavic diety
>biggest evil in the disneyverse

oh Walt you utter nazi you

>>36054537
>The genie
>Under the control of Jafar
You just know his third wish if he didn't become a genie would be to make himself a harem containing Jasmine.

>>36054482
That's the thing: Heroes are supposed to be able to defeat mooks easily enough, to shrug off the insults and menaces of the average asshole. Theirs is a higher battle, against the direct servants of the Villains themselves, and at one point, once they have a plan and resources and knowledge of secret weaknesses, against their dread masters themelves.

All you have to do is up the difficulty as the characters get stronger. You don't risk them going murderhobo if you drive home the point that even Heroes need help and favourable circumstances to take down one of the big bads.

>>36054483

Wonderland also seems to exist in Alice's head, but people are still trying to fit it into the setting.

Maybe both Wonderland and 100 Acre Woods are technically taken nonexistent, imaginary realms, but due to mass amounts of magic (because what villain doesn't go hogwild with his newfound powers) or the collective subconscious of people using them as an escape from tyranny/horrors of the real world has caused them to manifest as a physical realm in nearby dimensions, similar to The Other Side, except more mellow.
This in turn, due to facilier's trickery/friends from the Other Side, atlantean science or just plain more magical shenaniganry has caused them to "bleed out" into the real world as portals.

Judge Doom's Highway is an eldritch location.

That and the thought of reuniting Winnie with Pvt. Christopher Robin of the 7th Atlantean Paramedics team is just too good a plotline to pass up.

>>36054509

Two strikes on a single hit would need at least a margin of success of 10. Also, remember that Armor takes away one strike from every hit, so mooks are a problem for people like Belle, but nor for people like Li Shang.

Knights got 99 problems, but a mook aint one

>>36054545
The actual class names depend upon the region and whatever you want to call them, but the generic classes are just based on statistics rather than roles. What that means is still unclear. We've got Strong characters, Agile characters, Intelligent characters, Sensible characters, and Charismatic characters.

>>36054535
That's not what we've got planned for Ideals at the moment, but it's certainly interesting and definitely possible. At the moment, Ideals are the primary means of gaining XP, but perhaps if you gained a bonus while actively fulfilling them...
>>36054576
We're not actually sure of what armor does at this point, exactly, but that seems like a good start.

>>36054570
>That and the thought of reuniting Winnie with Pvt. Christopher Robin of the 7th Atlantean Paramedics team is just too good a plotline to pass up.
i like dis

>>36054580

It's time to put down some fixed points, or we are all going to keep talking about different systems.

First: we agree on a system based on 3d6 + bonuses, try to reach a target number?

>>36054595
Yep. Put that down on the 1d4chan page. What's there is what's set in stone. We right nothing on that page unless we are 200% sure that it's what we want to do.

>>36054595
Yeah, okay.

>>36054595
3d6+attribute+skill to reach a TN/DC/whatever you want to call it.
Six core attributes, with classes based around five of those.
Every character has a set number of traits which provide bonuses.
Skills provide increasing bonuses as more ranks are put into them.
Every character has a set of three ideals that they want to live up to, and every character has Goals that they must fulfill in order to truly advance in their quest.

>>36054450
>Combat Monster: Pirate
>Attributes:
Robustness:5
Agility:8
Intelligence:4
Sensibility:4
Charm:6
Will:3
>Traits:
1.Close Cooperation: Since the Pirate Lords cannot stand on their own, the have agreed with the Atlantean Empire to cooperate with each other closely to quickly repel an attack from the West. Gain +2 in a roll that also concerns an Atlantean Vessel.
2.Mass Produced Never-sword: Gleaning from the production techniques from Neverland, Lord Commodore Hook had taught the Pirate Lords to mass produce this deadly weapon. Gain +2 in a roll of boarding action against other ships.
>Ideals:
1. Be a Pirate Commandeer: If you command a ship, gain +2 in sensibility.
2. Scallywag Swagger: If you gain a large reputation, gain +5 in charm.

>>36054607
>>36054614
>>36054615

Then we have the six Attributes. Average people have, what, a 8 in each Attribute?

Then the Skills. They are very broad, as we saw last thread. First time you take them they become a +3, every time after that they increase by 1.

When you roll you add one Attribute and one Skill to you dice. The Skills are not tied to one specific Attriute: Melee can be used with ROBUSTNESS! to break down a column, with Dexterity to disarm someone, with Intelligence to open a door by making leverage on the right point.

Traits are stuff like Archer, or Gunslinger: very specialized bonuses.

>>36054635
You're actually off by about 14 points to spend on attributes still since 4 is the human minimum (Except for Will, which follows it's own special rules).

Ideals are looking good. Names are fluffy (bit too much for my tastes) but not so fluffy as to be unrecognizable as to what they're supposed to be.

Traits are pretty much exactly what I expected them to look like and are well-balanced.

>>36054595
Aye, we agree.
Also, is it normal that nobody bats an eye at the rampant namefaggotry going on? Is this normal in worldbuilding threads?

>>36054657
Average people have between 7 - 9 in an attribute, varying based on their jobs and life (obviously) with the exception of Will, which is a special bonus attribute tacked on in rare cases.

Skills: Yes. +3, then +4, +5, etc up to +8.

>>36054668
Yeah, I'm namefagging. It's a discard name though, it's gone as soon as I stop being relevant.

>>36054668

Eh, we all love Nobody Important: he's a good faggot.

>>36054674

I think we should semplify the range for normal, non heroic characters. What if normal, average guys with no important role inb the story have a 7 in every attribute? Leaving Will aside for a moment, because I'm still not sure wheter it should be a main attribute or not.

The target number for the average situations heroes get in, like jumping a bottomless chasm or climbing up a tower's wall, should be 20.

>>36054705
>TN 20
Doing some math real quick:
Average roll 10.5 + average attribute 8 + average skill 2 = 20.
Definitely good. 20TN is a good baseline for Heroic Deeds.

7 -- or even lower -- in every attribute for mooks/average people is also a good idea.

Fuck, I have no idea what we're gonna do with Will. The best thing would be to just, like, have it be +will on certain traits like OVERPOWER YOUR FEAR, GAIN A BONUS TO YOUR NEXT ROLL EQUAL TO YOUR WILL or something.

>>36054723

Trained Skill = +3. This way someone with an 8 and a trained skill can hit 21 most of the time.

TN 20 is, indeeed, a good baseline for heroic dees: something that anyone could do, if only they had the courage to stand up for what is right and be GREAT HEROES!

>>36054668
In threads where we make settings, it's often important to get some form of organisation going. Otherwise, it just becomes a mess of conflicting ideas where nobody knows what anyone else wants.

>>36054537
Fuck, Hermione Trainer when, Akabur?

>>36054829
I've seen this posted before, what's the original trainer? Akabur is the one who does really dirty TMNT comics, right?

>>36054723

Also, I think Will should be our main narrativist mechanic: you spend Will to get rerolls or bonus to other stuff.

Will is the stuff heroes are made of, be it bravery or hardened self-interest.

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>>36054866

OHOHOH, boy you're in for a treat!

>>36054884
I surprisingly played this game a lot. Should probably finish it.

>>36054916
It's not really surprising.

>>36052719

the villains in that movie are the nazis...

Thanks. Now the nazis have walking suits are armor that can not into being hurt by bullets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rRPU_cvGg

>>36054927
The Nazis might intrude on what we've got going on at the moment. I mean, the Mirror Kingdom includes Germany, and presumably Snow White happened pre-WW2, so where did the Nazis come from?

>>36054884
Ohoo... looks nice. Is it available without being part of Hentai United?

>>36054925
It is in a way. It takes quite some time to get to the porn, but enjoyed it anyway.

>>36054450
>Combat Monster: Pirate
>Attributes:
Robustness:5
Agility:7
Intelligence:4
Sensibility:4
Charm:6
Will:3
>Traits
1.Close Cooperation:Since the Pirate Lords cannot stand on their own, they have agreed with the Atlantean Empire to cooperate with each other closely to better repel attacks by Ursula and others. +2 in any roll that also concerns an Atlantean vessel.
2. Mass Produced Neverland Rapier: Gleaning from the techniques of Neverland, Lord Commodore Hook shared these techniques with the pirate lords, to be used around the world. Gain +2 in a boarding action.
>Ideals
1. Be a Pirate Commandeer: If you command a ship, gain +2 in Sensibility.
2. Scallywag Swagger: If you gain a reputation, gain +3 in Charm.

> Hope you're happy, Nobody Important

>>36054950

I don't even know what Hentai United is supposed to be. Just ask /d/ and they'll show you the way, man.

Bring futa, trap and mind control prictures for them, though: you'll need gifts to appease the cruel fey that rule over those distant lands.

>>36054659
Thanks. Please adjust the attributes to correctly represent my creation

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Waking up to the last thread nicely archived and a new thread almost two-hundred posts in gives me a great feeling people, a great feeling indeed.

>>36054950
I got it from a site that rips lunar porn games. Hentai Bedta I think it was.

>>36054985

if /k/ was a disney character.

>>36055023

forgot video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg8wePgXDIY

>>36054387
Arthur is thought by some of us to have King-under-the-Mountain. Most heroes and princesses are either dead or indisposed.

>>36054659
Oh yeah and please take my example as to what the starting PC's character's should be. And don't stop using your name, it's like a trademark.

For an Atlantis Combat Monster, he/she should be focused on Robustness and Sensibility, for what I envision is a law enforcement officer.
Also they should get a trait that adds +3 to Robustness when using ranged weapons (call it Drill Discipline)

They should also be gear oriented as such, focusing on guns or at least ranged weapons. So they would mainly rely on their gear and such.

Also, what you said in >>36054311 about my ideas about armor, would you think it will be implemented in the final product? What progress did you make on my idea? Generally, thanks for letting me contribute to this idea, man. Really appreciate and such.

>>36054945
I can imagine Frollo going a bit Adolf.

>>36054479
Their deaths also make the villains look a lot more serious and less incompetent - especially for the villains who play hardball such as Maleficent, Grimhilde and the Horned King.

Soooo Frozen

Is Hans part of the Anti-Elsa resistance or something, or a bad guy in his own right?

This is what Kingdom Hearts should have been

>>36055160
He's probably dead or under the thrall of Grimhilde.

>wake up syill thinking about this thread

>Wake up to it going strong and proper, with some of the crunch already defined

>Good discussion

Feela good. Feels hella good. You're all cool people, you can come home and fuck my sister. She's kind of a bitch tho

>>36054659
Wait, how many points are we giving to starting characters again?

>>36055184
I think it was decided he inherited Corona/Tangled-land and is a tributary of Grimhilde

>>36054343
Why not make wonderland, the 'world of dreams' be its own dimension? The residents of wonderland could go around in the real world, but any sane person (read, anyone who considers themselves sane) would not be willing to admit to themselves that they saw something which they believe to be a dream/hallucination, so they'd subconsiously ignore them.

>>36055054
Yeah, but they wouldn't be literal Nazis. I mean, he doesn't murder the Jews and the Gypsies because he thinks they're genetically inferior, he just thinks they're evil sinners.

>>36055194
Nothing a bit of charm and romance can't get around.

>>36055211
Well, Grimhilde of Germany is unlikely to kill them for being too beautiful.

>>36055197

I think a starting hero should be able to begin with at least an 8 in every Attribute, if he wanted to spread his point evenly. Being a hero means being better than average.

Leaving Will aside, maybe the heroes should start with a 6 in every Attribute and then get 10 points to spread around.

>>36055225

If there's another like Esmeralda she might

Serioualy, she's got some had competition with that weird shit she keeps her head wrapped into

>>36055236

Not necessarily, most disney heroes started off pretty normal.

I say start everyone off at 7 or 6

>>36055208

I'm on board with the Dream Land idea: Wonderland should lie beyond the material realm, but it should still be close enough to it for sensible souls to stumble upont it by falling into a portal.

Neverland could also exist in the same Dream Space.

>>36055242
Yep. Plus the bitch has paranoia issues that make Stalin look sane.

>>36055249

But 6 is very low: the average guy has 7 in everything, so a 6 is almost a disability. Heroes should at least be able to start with 7 in everything, like a normal guy.

>>36054659
Combat Monster : Atlantean
Robustness: 10
Agility:8
Intelligence:7
Sensibility:12
Charm:7
>Traits:
1.Drill Discipline: The Atlantean Law Enforcement prizes drill discipline and familiarity with a wide range of ranged weapons. Add +3 to your Robustness if you equip a ranged weapon.
2.Lawful Re-affirmation: The Atlantean Law Enforcement is used to negotiating with hostage-taking psychotic mermaids and other criminal affairs. Gain a +3 in a roll if you try to negotiate with enemies.
>Ideals
1. Liberator of Empires: If this character has contributed largely in liberating a country through warfare, add +2 in all stats.
2. Leadership in Hell: If this character has lead a group of individuals in war other than the PC's he can keep the group and recruit more.

>Notes: I did not include skills because they are as of yet undefined. Same for the will.
>Question: What will be the equipment you might have when you start the game?

>>36055255
That also leads to an interesting question: How would the 'dreamrealms' (wonderland, Neverland, The Other Side) be connected to eachother? And could it be that the Friends can take a completely different shape in those worlds, since it's their natural habitat? What would that look like?

>>36055281
Do you know why the Other Side is completely black when you're in there?
It's because your mind literally can't comprehend the true forms of the Friends. So it just makes you blind.

So did we ever decide what to do with Will?

I keep my vote that it should count as the stat to resist mental distress and morale loss such as fear, despair, loss, etc.

Maybe we coukd give it a more constant bonus? Like every time you complete a certain task or overcome a challenge your Will goes up a bit. That is what heroes are made of, after all

>>36055281

Maybe Wonder Land and Never Land are one place, while the Other Side is another, closer to Hades. We could go with a Dream Space called the Mirror, with wonder and magic and fey and weird shit, and a Dream Space called the Shadow, with ghosts and shades and demones and creepy shit. Both dangerous places, but one is more clearly evil while the other is more mischievous than anything.

>>36055292
Do you really want to bring Cthulhu into this?

>>36055298

I think it shouldn't be a main stat, or it would force people to chose between Will and other stats. It should be more like a pool of points to spend around to do cool shit, like rerolling some dice or resisting soime evil magic that normal people could never resist.

I think it would be interesting if there wasn't any normal defense against mind control and other stuff, but if the heroes could spend will points to stand up against it and resist it.

It wouldn't be very Disney if the villain could mind control the hero just because he rolled low on his saving throw.

>>36055301
The Dreamworld could be two planes occupying the same space, so if your dream turns into a nightmare, you go from Wonderland to the Other Side. Neverland is more of a hole in time than a dream, you go in, and a single moment becomes an infinity.

>>36055336

>The Dreamworld could be two planes occupying the same space, so if your dream turns into a nightmare, you go from Wonderland to the Other Side.

Good, very good. Actually, it's perfect.

>>36055301

As for 100 Acre Wood, it has a similar idea, but it's inhabitants are similar to Toontowners, i.e. everyone can see them, but most just don't mind.
It could be outside the normal spectrum of Mirror/Shadow, as a kind of inbetweener, since it's still mostly bright and childish, with some Shadow aspects in the form of fear and dangerous creatures and plants.

(yes i'm pushing 100 Acre Wood into the setting.)

>>36055336
Then what about 100 Acre Wood? Another idea could be that it's a remnant of a large incursion of Wonderland into the Real World, which twisted the region and created the Wood.

>>36055334

So basically Will points are the Disney-Boost points? I can dig it.

I can't stop thinking about the power rangers still fighting even after theirbpowers were gone

>>36055308
>unthinkable eldritch horrors
>automatically Cthulhu
Lovecraft-inspired doesn't necessarily mean Lovecraft. They don't even have tentacles. I don't know what they have, but it's beyond our comprehension as mortals. Chernabog might even be the mortal manifestation of the Other Side.

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>>36055336
>The Dreamworld could be two planes occupying the same space, so if your dream turns into a nightmare, you go from Wonderland to the Other Side.

>>36055360

Nah, probably their second-grade thrice removed cousin that won the lottery and became a movie star

>>36055360

>Chernabog might even be the mortal manifestation of the Other Side.

Nah, the Other Side should be human evil, the manifestation of the rotten things that lie in our minds, but Chernobog is Evil incarnated. There's nothing human about him and he doesn't make deals: he's Darkness, he's Death, he's Chernobog.

I think we should keep the Other Side as simply being its own dimension instead of being a manifestation of some form of evil ir anything. I feel like it takes away the cool thing about it

Besides, all their magic doesn't come to anybody who's really evil. Just keep them as different beings

>>36055385
I like the ideas ot the Friends running away form Chernabog. Like the know they are bad shit, but that Chernabog is an even bigger dog.

>>36055427
I was more of a fan of the idea that they are both not too familiar with each other and so don't mess too much. Chernabog could probably win, but he doesn't really know what the fuck is up with them or their magic, so he'd rather not waste time on them. The same goesnfor them, except they know for sure he is capable of taking them all on alone

>>36055447

Eh, I don't like the idea of Chernobog not knowing something about anpother kind of dark magic. He's the God of Evil; he should know what's up.

So is it settled? PCs shoupd start with every stat at 7, then?

And should we take out Will and turn it into something like Fate points? I remember "Heart" also being a suggestion and I'd say it fits

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>sleep all night
>new thread when I wake up
>metric ass-tons of new posts to read
Give it to me straight, guys: how many numbers have we figured out, and how long is our list of example traits?

Good morning, elegan/tg/entlemen. I see the discussion of crunch has gone well. Let's see how quickly we can wrap the stuff up despite its slow nature, eh?

>>36055541
I was the one who suggested that Heart be the mental fortitude-type stat paired with the ability to go beyond a player's normal limits, because fuck it it's Disney.

>>36055591
Sorry. I forgot to add, my point for bringing it up is to reintroduce that mechanic to the suggestion pool.

>>36055541

Let's say that a PC should start with a 6 in every Attribute and enough points to reach an 8 in two Attributes and a 7 in the others. So, 7 points to spread around.

Will, or Heart, is not an Attribute and, instead, is a pool of points to be used and refilled. You spend Heart Points to reroll, to add bonus to your normal rolls and to resist against the dark magics of this world.

>>36055353
>Then what about 100 Acre Wood?

Given that it is a kids personal fantasy, which would under normal circumstances only be accessible to the author, how about Christopher Robin became a Storyteller, turning the 100 Acre wood into a land that can be found by all those who believe in it?

>>36055619

I say the 100 Acre Wood is real in the Dream Space. Let's say one of the nicest parts of the Dream Space where Wonder Land and Never Land exist.

>>36055571

Do you remember how many breads you have eaten in your life?

>>36055637
No?

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>>36055615
>You spend Heart Points to reroll, to add bonus to your normal rolls and to resist against the dark magics of this world.
How about changing details of a scene or a character? For example, in pic related, the GM was all set to pit Mor'du against the party, but then Arthur's player spent a Heart point to give himself a huge 'chosen one' moment.

>>36055683

You could also use them for that, excellent.

>>36055629
Maybe we could have Christopher Robin stuck with some King who isn't about to harm him, like Kaa or Radcliffe, with the 100 Acre Wood steadily suffering as a result until the PCs get involved?

>>36055619

That is also Disney as fuck

I support it

>>36055619
>>36055629
>>36055704

Good, so: the 100 Acre Wood is a Dream Scape, like Wonderland, created not by Alice but by Christopher Robin, who's now trapped by a King that's trying to use him to make the Wood real and part of his Kingdom.

>>36055683

So does that mean that if the entire party burbs Heart points towards a common goal, Walt himself gives them his blessing?

>>36055764
You need to sacrifice at least a dozen jews to get Walt's blessing.

>>36055764
Not so much as you win cause of the power of friendship

>>36055782

Fuck you, this is Disney's version of Walt

>>36055796
So sacrifice the Disney version of jews.

>>36055790

Ignore the /pol/lack: friendship and camaraderie is the answer.

>>36055863
AND THE GOOD OL' POWER OF LOVE


Should it be possible, with enough persuasion and heart points, to convince the villains to give up without a fight?

>>36054274
What if lilo had just been a spoiled brat smart enough to sweet talk stitch into helping her take over Hawaii?

>>36055807
So dwarves?

>>36055879

You need Sensibility and Charisma out the wazoo for that: most Kings are Evil to their core, but some of them may still be redeemed.

>>36055890
Or convinced they won't succeed.

>>36054558
Dude, hes was wizard. He could already do that

>>36055724
Sounds neat. Maybe the merging process is far enough that portals to the Woods appear here and there, allowing oth Woodslanders and Real Worlders to travel between the two realms.

But does 100 Acre Wood conform to the King/Land/Rule system? If it does, i might as well get in on the namefagging and start work on that...

>>36055724
That would make the Woods a potential connection between the real world and wonderland that one could march through with an army. Sounds good.

>>36055961

The 100 Acre Wood is a Land without King at the moment, with another King and his armies trying to take over.

>>36055982

Aww, yiss, that's a fine ass idea!

>>36055924
Regarding power ranking, is Genie Jaffar not the second most powerful figure in the setting

>>36056066
Chernobog
Hades
Ursula
Djinn Jafar

I think that's how it goes.

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Hold up.

If this is a setting where the villains win.

Then doesn't that mean Attila the Hun topples the Chinese empire?

Holy shit. Asia's gun be fucked up.

Yes I know ShanYu isn't Attila, but we all know who he really is.

>>36056090

Woah, woah, woah: Ursula is not stronger than Jafar! He's got PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS!

>>36056100

Yes, yes he did: Shan Yu the Immortal now rules over China.

>>36056090
>>36056104
Honestly, I think Jafar would be more powerful than Hades, due to the aforementioned cosmic power.

>>36056104
We're not quite decided if Jafar should be a Djinn or just a sorcerer-king. The former gives him more power, but also imposes the limitations of a Genie upon him. It would also mean we'd have to explain how Jafar isn't trapped inside a lamp when the whole realise he turned into a Genie was because he was tricked by Aladdin.

>>36056104
Jafar didn't wish for the genie's powers in this setting. He's at this point the most powerful magic user on the planet

>>36056140
If we look at Djinn power levels in the original Arabic myth, Djinn were said to be capable in the ways of mystery and magic, but they were never, ever more powerful than God.

Hades is a god.

>>36056161
>>36056158

Ah, fair point: if he used his last wish to get rid of the Genie, than he's just the most powerfull magic user.

>>36055879
It depends on the villain, I'd wager. You can probably convince Smee to put a good word for you with is captain, you might convince Crudelia's crooks that helping crazy hunters hunt unique beasts is going too far; if you're really lucky, you might make Shenzi and the hyenas understand that Scar is becoming far too dangerous to support.

But I'd draw the line at straight up convincing a Villain with a capital V to join the good fight.

>>36056167

A god ≠ God.

>>36056182
You might be able to set a few of them against each other. Convince Grimhilde that Maleficent's hotter, or make Horned King jumpstart his plans to overthrow Hades.

>>36056193
Djinn were below angels, though.

>>36056100

Shan Yu has indeed conquered China, but he's had to contend with a full on revolt not only of the Chinese people but of their thousand-thousand ancestral spirits as well, led by Mulan the Undying.

>>36056201
...are there any angels in Disney canon?

I've been busy this morning and not able to contribute much to the discussion, but I'll archive this thread in preparation for the next.

>>36056201
Yes but Disney genies are not Djinn, so let's just ignore that and not get into a theological debate.

What we need to do is give Jafar a non-bullshit dampener, otherwise he'd be the ultimate being in the universe.

>>36056100
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanyu ?

>>36056063
Well, technically the Land still has an, admitedly absent, king who is trying to influence his land from the real world. Since Christopher is the author of 100 Acre Woods, he is the only one who can control it from anywhere.

By that logic, chances are the Land is constantly changing, with regions and territories vanishing and returning soon afterwards - or never returning at all, as Christopher tries to sort things out so that as much of the Wood is outside the reach of whatever King has him trapped. As stated in >>36055724

Speaking of which, what's your opinions on this?

`King: Bravery. Christopher Robin is a brave lad, and seems to instill bravery in all those who stay close to him. He even finds the land easy to travel, whether by the excitement of adventure, or his confidence in his own abilities.

Land: Woodlands comprising of curly, twisting trees dotted with mud pits, mountains, lakes and the occasional moor, with some regions taken over by Heffalumps or Woozels, and even more being lands of sinister, dark patches of brambles and briars, which are constantly expanding, due to Christopher's absence. Some larger patches even house tall, intimidating stone clusters, with vast underground caves where the Skullasaurs live.

Rule: Christopher is not, by default, a malevolent/evil king. His presence offers boosts to both bravery and morale. However, with his absence, and the constant twisting and tweaking to make the Land fit into the real world, several territories and regions simply vanish, blocking all access to said territory and anything behind it should the territory serve as a bottleneck, only to return later, if at all. And all throughout this, the brambles and skullasaur caves expand, stretch and invade the rest of the land...

>>36056234
Which we're doing by making him a sorcerer-king, not a Genie.

>>36056234

Let's just go with: he's not a Genie, he stayed a sorcerer.

I wake up after leaving the last thread nearly at bump limit

come to this one and find it's nearly at bump limit

>>36056248
Or rather, at the bump limit.

>>36056248
What's the bump limit? Should we start a new one?

>>36056234
Let's say Jafar wished to be the greatest sorcerer in the world, why should have bothered to make two more wishes at all? He should be able to do most things by himself at that point, so maybe he hasn't used them yet, and he's keeping genie around just in case That could make for some interesting dynamics, no?

>>36056221
>>36056234
The Hunchback of Notre Dame indicates the presence of the Abrahamic God, even if Chernabog's rule is a clear sign that he's not around ATM. And besides....who put those genies in those lamps and made them grant wishes?

>>36056229
The thread has been archived! Please feel free to vote it up if you have a care to do so!

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+VIllains+Victorious

>>36056273
300 replies and it starts sinking to the bottom of the board

usually we make new threads once it hits page 8 or so

>>36056277
His first wish was to be the Sultan, the second was to be the world's most powerful sorcerer. He's only got one wish in store.

>>36056293
I've got the next thread ready to post when we get that far.

>>36056242

Very good, very good.

>>36056301

Ther last wish was to get rid of the Genie, clearly.

>>36056301
What if he's still sitting on that wish? This adds another layer of worry to heroes trying to take him down.

>>36056242
If we're going with that angle, having Christoper imprisoned by Kaa as >>36055704 suggested could work, with the landscape getting even more muddled and chaotic as he gets his head messed with.

>>36056278
Which reminds me, how are we going to handle the inevitable "how can all the creation stories be true" dilemma?

>>36056325

But if he's still got that wish, the Genie is stil around. The lamp could be stolen by the heroes, who could use it to fix almost everything. That's big.

>>36056311
Why would you (not Jafar, YOU, the person writing this) want to get rid of Genie? It'd only deprive us of an interesting character. Don't be stupid, please.

>>36056331
it's a multiverse, so it has multiple futures and multiple origins.

>>36056353
Genie is possibly too much of an "I WIN" button.

>>36056347
Jafar still has the lamp, right? He's just keeping that last wish incase something goes incredibly wrong.

And then the heroes steal it from him. Genie battle, anyone?

>>36056331

We don't: let's leave it a mistery, with discording explanations.

If you want one, let's go deep with it: maybe all the villains, or at least most of them, come from the Other Side, instead of actually being the Gods and the Fey they claim to be. Born form the darkness of the human heart all that jazz, you digg?

>>36056353

Because it gives a villain a perfect, definitive I WIN button.

>>36056371

If he still has a wish, he's not a Genie: he became a Genie with his last wish.

>>36056363
I understand your concern, but maybe there's a way to salvage his character.
What if Jafar freed him? He's so sure of himself that he doesn't believe the Genie a menace anymore, and without the powers of the lamp, he's not as powerful as he once was.

>>36056347
>almost everything.

>>36056363
>I WIN button

We've seen the extent of Genies Power at the end of Aladdin. He can do some neat Tricks, create illusions and conjure up parades or armies, but he couldn't destroy a god. Heck, even someone like Ursula or the Shadowman may cause him trouble. I'd go so far as to say that if you freed him and he became a partymember it wouldn't create ballancing issues, since his released form is much weaker still.

>>36056399

Did the Genie lose powers after he was freed?

>>36056394
>>Because it gives a villain a perfect, definitive I WIN button.
Only if you confront them openly, and they know what to wish for.

>>36056416

But why didn't he just use that wish to remove any future opposition? To make himself invincible or to remove any heroes left in man?

>>36056413
see
>>36056404

Freed Genie is basically powerless. Just floats around and does some whacky parlor-tricks once in a while.

>>36056353
>it's a multiverse, so it has multiple futures and multiple origins.
Don't go all Steven Hawkings on me. I think it would be more accurate to say that it's a composite universe made of tiny, poorly defined universes with few or no contradictory rules.

I think there's a way we can make the creation stories compatible: Abrahamic God did create everything, BUT he delegated a lot of stuff to the pagan gods. Differences in creation stories are due to different narrators with different agendas; seemingly truly incompatible stuff is in fact compatible, for mortals cannot comprehend how they are, in the eyes of the gods, different tellings of the same events.

Stop overthinking it, it's Disney.

>>36056459
Yeah, it's a little beyond the scope of the game to find out the true origino of the universe.

>>36056459

Useless suggestion: we have to play in this setting, not put it in a showcase and pat ourselves on the back for how close to Disney we remained: we need an explanation for certain stuff.

>>36056432

Ok then: the Genie is still around but he lost most of his powers.