A list of solid traits for general use and for specific realms.
A description of what mechanically each of the three Tiers (Novice, Veteran, Hero) actually does per class.
The attribute and skill distinction between the Human and Beast characters.

For the non-rulesy among us: We need clarification on each individual Realm
We need origins for the players: what countries would provide suitable origins?

We're gonna need some Powers too -- at least 3 per class, and hopefully 3 per origin area.

I'm working on the Tier system at the moment with ideas stolen from others in the last thread. It'll be in a pastebin in 15 minutes.

>>36123447

I think many people have suggested powers in the past two threads, what about those? Should I bin it?

>>36123468
Go ahead.

File: Jafar_Ecstatic.gif (232 KB, 500x258)

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Here's the updated, edited edition.

There's a whole new page of content in there, so you might want to re-read from the beginning instead of skipping to the new ending.

I would love to hear any and all comments and critiques.

A Diamond in the Rough:
http://pastebin.com/BRtSpNQm

>>36123406

I'm still working on completing Yzma's King-Land-Rule entry from the last thread, but I am still at work for a while yet and can't make time for more than a few posts like this. I hope to get it done soon though and be able to move on to the next.

>>36123406
Class ideas:
Catholic Priest
Hun Barbarian
Hunter
Mechanic
Voodoo Wizard
Bear
Redcoat
Assorted other animals including big cats, monkeys and hyenas
Arab guard
Meso/South American warrior

What do you guys think?

>>36123490
That's even more magnificent, Jafar loves his double-dealing.

>>36123509
At the moment, we're running with the assumption of five classes which can be fluffed to be any of those.
For example:
Catholic priest: Sensible guy
Hun Barbarian: Strong Guy
Hunter: Either Nimble or Strong guy
Mechanic: Smart guy (Sage)
Voodoo Wizard: FUCK MAGIC GET OU
Bear: Strong Guy, bear species?
Redcoat: Probably Agile guy, could be Strong guy.
Animals have their own species choices and can take any of the classes.
Arab Guard: Strong Guy
South American Warrior: Strong Guy

http://pastebin.com/fj58NSYM

>>36123509
I forgot a few
Pirate/Sailor
Generic European Warrior
Ice Salesman

>>36123547

I agree: it's better this way.

>>36123547

Did we ever decide on proper names for the classes, by the way?

If I may suggest one, I think the Strong Guy should be Champion

>>36123547
>Redcoat
I've just realised that the Royal Colony of Virginia is very much a British region and not an American one. Which certainly opens up all sorts of interesting questions about the Old West and Louisiana.

>>36123547

Exactly. They're less "classes" and more class-archetypes that the players can fluff how they like.

>>36123588

They are not really classes: they are more like generic roles. A strong man is not necessarily a champion, he's just a strong man.

>>36123547
I feel like we should let the sage do something at least vaguely magical. Let it be alchemy, spiritual communion, whatever, I just want to see something like that.
>>36123589
The Civil War happened. Virginia is the one remaining foothold of England in America. Hell, it's the one remaining foothold in the world, what with the Horned King having taken over Britain. Still, if Arthur comes back, he could form an alliance with the Colony, and maybe with Hook depending on how patriotic he feels.

>>36123614
Wait, was the Civil War the one where England got thrown out? Britfag here, they don't teach us much Murrikan history. Mostly because you've had no major impacts on the history of the world except for helping out in WW2.

>>36123614
What about the East India Trading Company? Its still British

>>36123614

We should make some alchemy based Power for the Smart Guy, yes.

>>36123637
Beckett is a law unto himself.

>>36123637
Maybe, but it's possible Beckett might have gone a bit mad with power in his independence, and now refuses to kneel to the One True King, even if it'll help rebuild the Empire.

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>>36123614
>magic
No. Alchemy maybe. Chemistry, also maybe. Spiritual Communion -- possibly? That seems like it'd be setting-specific.


Remember, Powers should spend between one and Three will points, and grant some effect that skills either don't usually grant, or a massive bonus to a skill.

>>36123673
Fluff it however you want. Point is, we need somebody for fulfilling the role wizards normally fill in a well-designed system.
I said WELL DESIGNED, Nob, put that pitchfork down and extinguish that burning torch. We're not taking any hints from 3.X here.

>>36123673

>Powers should spend between one and Three will points

I think some Powers should give a passive bonus with no cost, for people who don't like tactical thoughts and just want higher stats.

>>36123700
That's a trait thing.

>>36123614
>>36123642
>>36123673

Smart can mean a lot of things, and a Smart Guy can be attuned to mystical, spiritual or scientific pursuits. For instance, Mahrikatohka the Atlantean Mechanic test character is a Smart Girl, but her character concept is scientifically or mechanically themed.

>>36123743

Why not also a Power thing? We already have Traits that cost Will Points.

>>36123669
>>36123668
Wasn't Beckett just a governor? Would the Board of Directors still rule the EITC?

Odd the top of my head, these are the powers:

http://pastebin.com/w4AJw5rL

There is probably a lot more but I can't recall which ones were good or not, so I stuck with the ones I actually remember people liking

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>>36123490
>Jafar's face when.

>>36123754
I think we'll be folding those traits into Powers.

>>36123750
Well then her powers come from alchemy and technology, similarly to Yzma. As opposed to Smart Guys who get their power from magic, like Merlin, or Jafar who also multiclassed into Sensible Guy.

>>36123829

Why would we? Traits are something you buy, while Powers come from time to time to represent your growth in your chosen role. They fill different slots.

>>36123754
D... do we?

We should probably change those to Powers then.

>>36123750
They can, but I can't think of a system where magic doesn't fuck everything up.
Magic, at least in the Disneyverse, is not even close to heroic. Merlin is the only one I can think of, and every other spellcaster is a fairy grandmother archetype or a magical villain.

>>36123794

I know that I'd made up a lot of Powers based on the PCs' countries of origin, but I'm not sure if they're recorded. I have to check the documentation.

>>36123754
What.

If we do, then that's bullshit and those traits should be powers. Or reworked

>>36123859
Yen Did has the role of "stern teacher", but yes you're right. Pure spellcasters are never heroes.

>>36123908

Why?

>>36123909
Yen Sid*
Fuck this phone.

>>36123490
>"But I’m warning you, buddy: you may think that you’re tough stuff topside, but if you cross me? There’ll be hell to pay – and I mean that VERY literally."

Nice.

>>36123926

Because Traits are minor things and buffs and Will/heart points are basically Hero Juice to bend a scene or two

Unless it's something like "Every time you spend a Will Point, gain +1 to all rolls until the next turn"

>>36123859
>I can't think of a system where magic doesn't fuck everything up.
Have you played anything except for 3.X? Because in D&D 4th edition, D&D 5th edition, Shadowrun, Fantasy Craft, Rogue Trader, Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Old World of Darkness, New World of Darkness and GURPS, I've never seen things being fucked over by magic.
Also, does the fact that it's not specifically happened in a Disney movie mean we can't do it? The bad guys winning and the heroes getting killed or scattered never happened in a Disney movie, and that's the whole basis of this setting.

>>36123404
This is a christian imageboard, do I need to tell his holiness?

>>36123984

>Also, does the fact that it's not specifically happened in a Disney movie mean we can't do it? The bad guys winning and the heroes getting killed or scattered never happened in a Disney movie, and that's the whole basis of this setting.

And it should be the only change to the basic Disney formula: we are doing Disney with a twist (A twist, singular), not Disney but completely different.

>>36123859
Cortex Plus, Savage Worlds, Fate, I can go on. Honestly, the only major systems I can think of where magic is horribly unbalanced is D&D and its brethren.

>>36123984
>Have you played anything except for 3.X? Because in D&D 4th edition, D&D 5th edition, Shadowrun, Fantasy Craft, Rogue Trader, Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Old World of Darkness, New World of Darkness and GURPS, I've never seen things being fucked over by magic.

Did you ever actually play the games you are namedropping? Because in pretty much all of them, magic users are only balanced with other magic users: put in a normal guy and he's just straight up worthless compared to them.

Excpet D&D 4E, where everyone is magic.

>>36124022
Have you noticed how in almost all Disney movies featuring good magic, it's supporting the heroes? It's what gives you the magic sword, it's what helps you disguise to sneak into the ball. That's the role magic should play - support and utility.

>>36123984
>shadowrun
>magic being balanced

>dark hershey, deathwatch, black crusade
>psykers being balanced

There are a LOT of settings where the wizard-equivalent is much stronger than the others.

>>36124058

Have you noticed that it's always something outside the group that helps out with magic? Heroes don't go around with the wizard: the good wizard helps them out if they need him, but he doesn't hang around with them.

>>36123669
What about Captain Hook? Would he ally himself with the Pirate Lords, or would he join the EITC?
Would he eventually join the EHC?

>>36124116
He commands the Pirate Lords and he allied himself with Davy Jones against Ursula.
>>36123984
>WoD
>balanced magic
OHOHOHOKAY!

>>36123673
How many Will points can a character have?

>>36124141

3, unless he buys more of them.

>>36124058
>>36124079
so make magic take a long time to enact. You can't sling a fireball because it takes three rounds to charge up and it's only as accurate as you can throw anyway.

Make friendly fire a significant risk, or make it so magic takes so much concentration that it's not viable in stressful situations, requiring your Will/Heart (or whatever we're calling it now) to power and make your bonus null against external threats.

Hell, have wizards chose between using heart points to power their magic or bolster their defense against the badguy's You Suck speech.

>>36124058

In that case, maybe we should follow a similar formula and make the most magically charged characters those NPC allies of the player heroes:

>Queen Elsa / Ice Anna
>Kidagakash, the Heart of Atlantis
>Mulan the Undying and the Ancestors
>Empress Yzma once you get on her good side
>Alameda Slim
>Etc.

>>36123626
>Mostly because you've had no major impacts on the history of the world except for helping out in WW2.

It's because we were more of an Asian power than a Western one at that point. We wanted South America and the Pacific, we really just wanted the rest of you to bugger off.

>>36124137
W>>36124137
uld the Pirate Lords ally themselves with Atlantis?
Seems to be a good idea for both parties. On one hand Rourke gets some ships and men. On the other hand, the Pirates could get Atlantean technology.

>>36124052
Now, let's take a look at the reasons why that's bullshit.
>D&D 5th edition
Admittedly, there's a slight curve in favour of the casters, but nowhere near 3.X levels.
>Shadowrun
Yeah, no. Your mage is just as vital as everybody else, but he dies too.
>Fantasy Craft
Everyone has just as many tricks up their sleeve as the average caster.
>The 40k systems
Yeah, these Psykers are so overpowered. It's not like one wrong roll could make their heads explode. What is this "High risks, high reward" thing you speak of?
>o/nWoD
In nWoD, mages don't unbalance a party. In oWoD, why would you run multiple-race campaigns.
>GURPS
It's how you make magic work yourself. The fault is yours.
In conclusion:
>Did you ever actually play the games you are namedropping?
Did you?
>Excpet D&D 4E, where everyone is magic.
Oh, I get it, you're a troll. 10/10 bait, I fell for it.

>>36124137
>Playing multiple races oWoD
Nobody says werewolves are OP everywhere just because of oWoD.

>>36124194
How would this Kidagash NPC affect events in the PC's world?

>>36124195
It seems out of character for Roarke to ally himself with lawless, horrible criminals, and even moreso to give out his precious tech.

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I found this proposal for the Pirate Lords. Davy Jones is the Pirate King and controls the Pacific. His five Lords are Hook (the Atlantic), an Atlantean Pirate (the Arctic), a former Priest (West Mediterranean), an Arabian Corsair (East Mediterranean) and an enterprising ape (Indian).

Together with Beckett's Indonesian Sea, they form the Seven Seas of the VV world.

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Okay, finally finished my Mother Gothel story.
Turned out a bit longer than my other ones because I kept having ideas pop up along the way.

http://pastebin.com/FUxLqK7V

>>36124058
I could see this working. We don't have a class that throws fireballs everywhere, but we do have a class that can use alchemy to make a firebomb, a process which takes about an hour, and then give it to the member of the party most capable of using it.

>>36124203
About weapons, do we assign stats or effects for them, or do are they there just to provide flavor text?

>>36124224
Well, 'Atlantean tech' in this context could just mean 'bolt-action rifles' or 'breech-loading cannon'.

>>36124203
>In nWoD, mages don't unbalance a party.
Are you being obtuse on purpose?
>Your mage is just as vital as everybody else, but he dies too.
Yeah, he can possibily die too, but he's still more powerful than anyone else and always the least endangered character.
>Everyone has just as many tricks up their sleeve as the average caster.
Not really? No, not really: even in Fantasy Craft, Casters are still the one teleporting around and Fighters are still the one hitting stuff with a metal stick.
>It's how you make magic work yourself. The fault is yours.
If you let character A buy whatever he wants and character B buy only non magical stuff, character A is going to be stronger than character B.
>Oh, I get it, you're a troll.
But it's true? Everyone is equally magic.

>>36123626
We kicked you out during the Revolution. Then you tried to take us back in 1812, and we got you to bugger off, though not before you had burnt the White House hollow and wrecked half of the Old South.


No, the Civil War was when we got into a big fight over what exactly a federalized government was allowed to do. And also slaves. And it confused most everybody, especially the Rebel leadership, since half of them liked slavery and the other half didn't. In the end it was really about state's rights versus federal power. and federal power won.

>>36124224
Well, it doesn't have to be tech. Maybe an alliance, perhaps. To protect each other from Ursula. Maybe the Pirates don't attack Atlantean ships, and the Atlanteans allow them to use their city/territories as bays/docking ports/whatnot. In simple words, Pirates don't attack, Atlantis offers some refuge for them. Seems reasonable

>>36124203
>40k systems having balanced psykers

"what did you get, rank 1 guardsman?"

"I can not suck at shooting my terrible terrible gun occasionally 40% of the time!"

"What did you get, psyker?"

"I can end an encounter in one round with Fear Me. But it's balanced because there's a 1 in 10,000 chance I'll just DIE!"

>>36124225
Is this "enterprising ape" Disney or filling a space that needs filling? If neither, why not replace him with, I don't know, Jack Sparrow?
>>36124261
I vote we assign stats to them. Also, ROBUSTNESS!/dex soft-cap.
>>36124284
>Are you being obtuse on purpose?
In all my time playing nWoD, mages haven't unbalanced a party. Granted, I'm going on my own anecdotes here, but still.
>Yeah, he can possibily die too, but he's still more powerful than anyone else and always the least endangered character.
Again, my experiences proved otherwise, but that might just be me.
>Not really? No, not really: even in Fantasy Craft, Casters are still the one teleporting around and Fighters are still the one hitting stuff with a metal stick.
However, while the mage can do a lot of stuff, he can never do what the other classes do as well as the other classes. And I think that mages work as a jack-of-all-trades class.
>If you let character A buy whatever he wants and character B buy only non magical stuff, character A is going to be stronger than character B.
>Only letting one character buy magic items
Wow, your GM is terrible.
>But it's true? Everyone is equally magic.
Everyone works the same. This does not make everyone magic. Why should magic work differently to anything else?
>>36124328
Once again, my experiences differ. But hey, that's just what I've seen.

>>36124326
See, I'm not seeing a reason why Atlantis wants this deal. It seems like only the Pirates benefit.

>>36124268
That would still be very valuable. Imagine shifting from crude cannons to breach-loading ones, with serveral shells to use with. Heck, even bolt-action rifles would be a very covetable piece of technology.

>>36124344
Back to business. Magic is off the table for now, when we get to advanced character creation/powers we'll consider it then.

Weapons should have a agility/robust soft cap, yes. If you don't meet it, -2 to hit for each point below.

Small weapons provide +1 to strike, most weapons +2, and very good weapons provide +3. Beyond that, we're talking magical and Atlantean weapons.

>>36124160
Mind, converting villains over to the side of good should be (barring a few exceptions) a task that is so incredibly unlikely to succeed that it's simply not viable unless certain strict conditions are met.

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>>36124344
>Is this "enterprising ape" Disney or filling a space that needs filling?
I think the main hope was to have a significant pirate monkey of some sort. Sparrow is trapped within Jones' locker.

>>36123490
I like the additions to the beginning. It really drives home the idea that while Jafar is in it for personal glory and power, he really does view himself as doing good for the people of Agrabah.

>>36124354
Well, they only have to hand out lowly tech. But maybe there can be better reasons to form an alliance? Maybe Ursula, perhaps? Maybe the EITC, since the Atlanteans must want to monoplize trading?

Maybe instead of the Pirates, the EITC, perhaps? To provide them protection against Ursula's minions?

>>36124407
>Magic is off the table for now
On what grounds?

I mean, if we make the system, can't we decide what magic users are and aren't capable of?

Or perhaps it would be best saved for an Expansion. No playable magic users in the core game. You'll nedd Villains Victorious: Malicious Magics.

>>36124407
I don't see how Sages using magic/alchemy to buff/heal allies would unbalance the game. It's not like we're giving them the ability to create their own universes like 3.X does.

>>36124344
>In all my time playing nWoD, mages haven't unbalanced a party. Granted, I'm going on my own anecdotes here, but still.
>Again, my experiences proved otherwise, but that might just be me.
Yes, it's only you: the guys that can replicate any other supernatural power and do even more are better than the other supernatural creatures.
>However, while the mage can do a lot of stuff, he can never do what the other classes do as well as the other classes. And I think that mages work as a jack-of-all-trades class.
One single wizard doesn't make every other class obsolete, but he can take the place of any other one guy and then do more. A party of alla wizards is better than a party with less wizards. Also, teleport and divination.
>Only letting one character buy magic items
Wow, your GM is terrible.
Are you a subhuman retard? Because what I'm saying is that, in a point-buy system, if you let only guy buy magic powers, that guy, the wizard, will be better than the other guy, the non-wizard
>Why should magic work differently to anything else?
It shouldn't: D&D 4E made everyone equally magical, and that's good. Martials can unrealistic, supernatural stuff with no connection to what a swordsman would be able to do in the real world, and that's good.

>>36124450
We seem to be putting a lot of stuff in expansions, considering we aren't even selling this.

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>>36124344
>If neither, why not replace him with, I don't know, Jack Sparrow?
That's a great idea.

>>36124472
well, we have a lot of things that are disney in spirit but not in license, and it would be really cool if we could include them

>>36124410

True, but I feel like the ones listed here are the most likely to side with the heroes if given the chance, Elsa especially.

>>36124407
How would you gain Will points? By doing cool things? Like jumping out of a window while firing guns?

About guns, are you planning to implement range, caliber, etc. ? And how would we balance Atlantean PC's?

>>36124472
Expansions basically means 'This material will be supplementary and is not the focus of the core creative experience'. It's basically a 'Do This Later' pile with the emphasis on Later.

>>36124450

He said for now.

We still have to finish the system, so we can't start doing magic right now. We already said ten threads ago that magic would be the last thing to be done, because you can bult rules if you have the safety net of magic to fall back on.

>>36124497

>About guns, are you planning to implement range, caliber, etc

A maximum range, yes, but nothing else. Just three kinds of guns with a different bonus each.

>How would you gain Will points?

We have a system to regain them: you get them all back every day, but you can also regain one will point every time you do something cool and in character.

>>36124483
BEHOLD, THE PIRATE LORD OF THE INDIAN OCEAN

>>36124500
>He said for now
Yeah but he's also made his stance on magic very clear.

But whatever, I'm perfectly happy to wait.

>>36124497
Since Atlantean PC's would probably be Atlantean A-teams, It would be on our best interest to make them gear-reliant.

How would the combat system work? Is it just rolling, or does it require a mat?

>>36124546
Make it work for both, I say.

>>36124541

Yes, but Nob is an old paranoid nutjob: we don't really listen to him all that much.

>>36124483
This is up there with Bobby 'Facilier' Proud in terms of definite canon.

We need more of this clever shit where we reuse characters.

>>36124546

No mat required, but if you want to use it I'll personally stop Nob from coming to your house and slapping you.

>>36124546
What should be the starting equipment of PC's?
Would there be a one-time medkit, to return to you one strike?

>>36124529
What would you need to use guns? The skill itself (Ranged), or not much?

>>36124601

Strikes are abstactions you regain pretty easily when outside of combat, usually by doing cool shit in character. So a medic checking you out can make you regain Strikes.

>>36124617

Ranged, yes.

>>36124586
Cool. So anyway, would there be Rounds in combat?

>>36124541
I'm fine with magic if it's dangerous, illegal, and honestly not that effective.
>>36124558
I hope someone's listening, otherwise a lot of crunch has been wasted.
>>36124586
Mats are fine. It's not really a "measure the squares" type game, but if you wanted you could make 1 square 1 meter and run with that.

>>36124643

Damn it man, you really need to keep up with the Threads. Or I should really move the fuck up and compile a list of rules.

Anyway: yes, we have a 10 seconds turn based system. It's terrible design, but it does a good job of simulating how combat works in Disney movies: it takes a lot of time to swing at someone and they can do a lot of stuff in the meanwhile.

http://strawpoll.me/2980168
Vote here on the magic issue. Poll ends at 22:57 GMT, in one hour.

>>36124639
Are there Healing skills, or is there a class dedicated for that?

>>36124710
What if I hate both of those options?

>>36124719

Science includes medicine.

>>36124730
What else do you want to have? Because that's the opinion I've been getting throughout the thread, and let's face it, the heroes being blasty Fireball-slingers doesn't really fit Disney.

>>36124710
>>36124730
My two cents, magic is one of the biggest parts of Disney, even if it's not the main characters who usually perform it. It might not be the best solution, but making offensive magic part of the game but with high risks involved might be worth it. They can toss off a fireball, but it'll singe them half as badly as the target.

>>36124753
*Because those are the opinions
Sorry.

>>36124648
>>36124648
>if it's dangerous, illegal, and honestly not that effective.
Yeah, I'm kinda ok with that. Here's some fluff to explain why we're limiting magic for PCs.

Because so many of the Villains rely on their magical abilities to exert their influence, they are fiercely protective of magical secrets. Following their various victories, many powerful magic users were hunted and killed. Magical artefacts were seized or destroyed. Magic has become a commodity controlled by a select few elite powers and they're not willing to share it.

In the unlikely event that some aspect of magic does trickle down to someone in a position to fight back, it will not be powerful. It may be simple utility spells or generic boosts to their actions. These magic users are likely untrained, opening them up to all sorts of negative side effects. Perhaps they know one or two really powerful magics but the more powerful spells carry great risks.

Dedicated magic users may seek out some of the few surviving mages to teach them and improve their skills but these quests will be long and difficult and not something the average man would ever be able to achieve.

Magic in Villains Victorious is the refuge of the Villainous Elite. The PC willing to dabble in it puts himself at great risk, although the rewards can make up for it.

>>36124699
Please, elaborate. Do each character gain a second.

>>36124814

What? No! Each character has a 10 seconds turn. He gets to take 2 Actions during this Turn, plus he can move around. You can also use your Actions to increase your movement during the Turn.

>>36124778
Magic shouldn't be part of character creation. IT makes you a very probable and clear target.
>>36124648
I can't keep up. School keeps me from doing that, and there are a lot of threads.

>>36124710
Forgot to add: 22 people ITT, so if either side gets 11 votes before the hour's done, they win.
>>36124789
Utility spells and action boosts are exactly what I'm going for. When I say we make Sages do what wizards normally do, I don't mean let them summon fireballs, raise the dead and bend the fabric of reality. That's villain magic. Our magic is setting the Strong Man's sword on fire, enchanting the Nimble Man so he survives that fall, using healing magic to get the party back on its feet. And we'll take steps to make buffs a lot more useful on the rest of the party than yourself - when your Strong Man's on his last legs and needs a little more power to hit the target properly, you can buff yourself, let him die because you wasted an action moving over and then still get killed because you're not ROBUST enough even when buffed, or spend one action to heal him, another to buff him and let him do his thang. (Assuming we're working on a round system system with two actions per turn.)
>>36124848
Why not make movement an action? The Nimble Guy can move AND act twice, because he's just that fast.

>>36124848
Sure, thanks man.

>All these guys wanting to have wizards in a disney setting

You fuckers better mean shit like Rapunzel's hair at best. Otherwise, if you aren't a villain or named Elsa, git out

>>36124861

Because if you make it an Action people can decide to not move and instead do something else.

In Disney movies people are always moving around and this doesn't compromise their effectivness. So no Full-Round Actions 3.5 style.

The Nible Guy has already a bonus to speed.

>>36124901
That's exactly what I meant.

>>36124856
What about magic-killing/finding traits? Traits could make it easier for characters to identify and kill a magic-user.

>>36124946
I think we have some of those for people from the Archdiose.

>>36124946
Maybe opposite traits? So magic users make it easier to hide themselves?

Let me make this thing on magic here, since I'm the guy who suggested sages have magic in this thread:

Sages should not throw fireballs, sages should enchant somebody's sword to set it on fire. Sages should not raise the dead, sages should keep the living living. Sages should support the party. They should need the party, yes. Buffs should work better on the others than on themselves. But really, what are Sages going to do in combat otherwise?
Also, you don't have to fluff it as magic. Feel free to say it's technology or spirits.

>>36124946
Magic users are hard to include in character creation. Really upsets the balance of the classes.
It would be hard to make them fit in the fluff, too.

>>36124999
Well, Sages are supposed to be the ones trying to deal social strikes along with the sensible and charismatic guys, right?

It's not like they'll be useless in combat anyway but the class itself is more turned towards social isn't it?

>>36125024
How do they upset the balance? Just make them sages. And fluff them however you want. It could be spirits, or Atlantean tech.

>>36124980
They hide themselves by not using magic.
you may want to set this thread on auto-update, if you haven't already

>>36124999
The problem is that buffs can easily become heavily broken.
>what else are we going to do with sages in combat
In the early threads, when Strikes were still being hashed out people said 'let them use science or mathematics or whatever to kick this rock in just the right way to cause it to fall on their head'. Any skill can be used to use a strike as long as you can justify it.

>>36124999
Nice thoughts. Maybe this can work. So the sage functions as the team's glue? But what would be its use in combat? Maybe combat spells?

>>36125046
>The problem is that buffs can easily become heavily broken.
Not if we control how much buffs should be doing.

>>36125036
I guess it's having more power at you disposal.

>>36124861
Honestly, i think there shouldn't be a Spell system at all. Magic is a wild and crazy thing that only a few ever get. You shouldnt be able to learn magic aside from alchemy, you are born with it. If we even implement one in, im just going to flat out ban most player magics if i run the game.

>>36125036

Because where there's magic there are the "of course the wizard should be more powerful than the fighter" guys.

>>36125061
Enchanting everybody else, so in combat they work better. Also healing.

>>36125140
And those guys get told to fuck off, same as in anything else. Why do we have Japan on this map? It's like we WANT every player to be a weeaboo.

Poll guy here,
Since we now have 24 posters ITT, I'm upping the majority to 12 votes for yes or no.

>>36125173
Oh, we tell them to fuck off? Like we're telling the people who want WIZURDS in this setting to fuck off, right?
But we'll have a bit less of a leg to stand on, because we already have magic in this game despite magic in Disney almost universally being villainous.

>>36125130
Then fluff these abilities as Alchemy. Look, perhaps calling it "magic" was a mistake. It's a thing sages can do which improves the performance of their allies. Call it what you will.

>>36125130
>If we even implement one in, im just going to flat out ban most player magics if i run the game.
Cool, you do that. But stop killing everyone else's fun just because you don't see the point.

>>36125203
Disney has magic items. Sages can be the guys who make those magic items.
Also, why do you struggle to understand that it doesn't have to be magic? It could be alchemy. It could be Atlantean technology. It could be communing with the spirits. It could be absolutely anything you want it to be.

>>36125140
Geez, it's almost as if the guy with the power to reshape reality itself SHOULD be more powerful than the guy with the sword.

>>36125203
>magic in Disney almost universally being villainous.
Get a load of this dipshit

>>36125242
Guy who suggested we include magic here,
NO. LEAVE NOW. GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT. THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU. FUCK OFF AND GO PLAY 3.X.

>>36125242
Fuck off.

>>36125236

But in the end there would still be a guy that can turn invisible, fly and teleport, wouldn't it?

>>36125242

I know you are just trolling me, but God do I hate you.

>>36125242
>>36125244
sigh... We were doing so well too...

>>36125244

He's right though, the great majority of magic HAS been villanous most of the time

Maleficent, Mad Madam Mim, the Magic Mirror, Jaffar, Elsa (Originally. And even then, her magic fucked up everything in the final movie), Ursula

I can agree that it's not always, since we got Genie, Triton, etc. But still it's *mostly* villanous or at best neutral

>>36125242
Fuck off and don't come back

>>36125270
Nob's going to have an apoplexy when he sees this.

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>>36125242
BEGONE, FOUL DEMON SPAWN! THE HOLY INQUISITION COMANDS IT!

>>36125284
He's going to have another panic attack... I'll get the blanket. Someone call his mom...

Okay, I've come up with a solution to all these things we're putting on our increasingly long maybe list.
We make separate chat rooms in the suptg IRC network, wherein we discuss stats for these things. Every so often, we'll post updates in these threads, and the people working on the main game can offer their opinion.
>>36125269
No there wouldn't. Stop being paranoid.

For anyone debating whether Disney magic is more evil or good, the DisneyWiki describes it as neutral and has a list of all known magic users sorted into good and evil. While there are more evil users than good, the difference is actually pretty minor.

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Magic

>>36125250
>>36125255
>>36125269
>>36125270
>>36125278
>>36125295
>Wahhh, why isn't my super cool swordsman more powerful than the guy WHO CAN RAIN FIRE FROM THE SKY THEMSELVES?! The game is broken!
This is what you faggots sound like.

>>36125332
Also, we still don't seem to understand that it can be refluffed so it isn't actually magic.

>>36125242
>>36125347
LOOK AROUND YOU, EVERYONE

LOOK WHAT YOUR FOOLISH HANDS HAVE WROUGHT
LOOK WHAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT DOWN UPON US
THE WIZARDS ARE HERE

>>36125309
The more expansions we have, the more likely something will become imbalanced. Let's try and keep it small.

>>36125332
Okay, but you have to remember most good magic users are dead and the villainous ones have sort of taken over the world.
>>36125348
DOES IT MATTER? IN THE END, IT WILL RAPIDLY BECOME IMBALANCED THE MORE WE ADD.

>>36125347
>Is in the minority
>Calls the majority faggots

yeah, we're totally the faggots here...

>>36124253
I wish I had the talent for literary irony you have.

BEGONE, FOUL DEMONS, FROM THIS THREAD OF JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS!

BY HOLY FIRE BE PURGED, GO BACK TO YOUR LANDS!

FOR THE PONTIFEX!

>>36125309

Yeah, but we have to keep ourselves in check if some Powers and Traits stop having a connection with perceivable reality.

Also, I don't like the idea of IRC: I don't what to cut off new people from fucking around within the thread.

>>36125364

Nob, relax, it's just a troll.

Its CR is way lower than a wizard's."

>>36125364
>The more expansions we have, the more likely something will become imbalanced. Let's try and keep it small.

That's the guys using the expansion's problem. We just have to make clear that they are expansions with very different themes and feels from the main game.

>Proposal # 1: No Magic Using PCs in the Central Game
PCs can make use of magical items and artefacts but there will be no natural magic users in the core setting.

>Proposal #2: A Magic User Expansion
People who don't want magic users can safely ignore them. People that do want them, can include them. As we create the game, we don't have to think about Magic PCs until after the core mechanics are in place.

>Proposal #3: Magic is Rare
Magical powers are the domain of the elite sorcerers, many of whom are villains. There are few if any good mages left and those that survive are persecuted and hunted. A PC magic user can expect a lot of flack for using magic and will find it hard to grow and develop their magical skills. Magic using PCs will be expected (and just shy of required) to have another discipline to fall back on.

>Proposal #4: Magic is Tricksy
Even the best Magic Using PCs are going to be largely untrained and untested. They can't expect their magic to work all the time and they can't predict the potential effects. Powerful Magic carries all sorts of potential problems with it and must only be used in dire situations so as to avoid tempting fate.

With those four ideas in place, magic users become a sort of elite class for players to choose. We don't have to think about it for a while and people who don't want it can safely ignore it. Any more complaints?

>>36125421
Then can we add Star Wars and Marvel in the expansions?

>>36125439
Can we make a new Poll with these options? Because I'd like to change my vote.

>>36125402
We'll still mention that we're working on a magic system. And we'll add the address of the room and the server to the OP.

>>36125364
>Okay, but you have to remember most good magic users are dead and the villainous ones have sort of taken over the world.
Well observed. What does that have to do with future magic users? Surely they can still be good or bad?

>>36125452

Sure, we already said we would do it, some day.

>>36125439

Sound like very good proposals to me.

>>36125439
Everything except Number 1 sounds good. I was expecting sages to retain the amazing power of being clever, so needing an extra discipline is fine with me.

>>36125462
As a /vp/ makes a game vet, I'd really avoid taking the chat off site. It leads to a divide between the core group and the casual observer which quickly stifles creativity. Pokemon Sage has a special Skype group which is invitation only and it makes cruising the threads depressing because every idea is met with 'We already agreed in Skype'. Keep the conversation on 4chan. Use off site stuff to archive information.

>>36125508
>Making it invitation only
There's your problem. Besides, making a separate Skype group worked fine for Nightlight.

Guys.

Guys.

Can't we just finish making the god damn core game before we start adding more things? It's not like it was exactly easy to make all the mechanics and balances so far, and we've built it in a non-magic setting

Let's at least get the game able to roll before adding in magic, it's a can of worms

>>36125502
>Everything except Number 1 sounds good
Sages make use of magical items and weapons but don't possess any innate magical abilities. It means they can have slightly more powerful equipment than other players because they are much more incapable without it. That's a pretty big Achilles heel. The GM just needs to chuck the PCs in jail and suddenly the Sage has nothing to fall back on but his smarts.

>>36125439
Any one of these except #4 would work in my book.
I predict endless arguments about Wild Magic tables if that is the option chosen.

>>36125439
>>36125332
Look, heres the thing.
Cutting out live action characters and stuff, the remaining characters who use magic are very very old. I mean, look at Jafar, arguably one of the youngest, and hes still in his 40s-50s. Magic isn't some thing that you can learn by just cracking open a book or muttering some words. Its a feel, a force, a living creature almost. Jafar himself, who had been studying for quite some time, could be resisted by the Sultan and defeated by Aladdin. If players are to get magic, they should never be able to just play magic charscters and they must not be able to progress quickly in it without outside assistance and they must never EVER be able to surpass the villains in it. The strongest a pc can be in magic should nothing compared to a magical villain. Hell, regular villains should be able to beat magic pc users. Magic is either a phenomenal force or it should be extremely quick. The best wizard a pc can be should just get swatted away by Frollo or the HK or Maleficient.

>>36125532
The core fluff and crunch is pretty much done. All we need is a few test games to iron out the kinks.
Making more adventure modules would help immensely.

>>36125635
What about weapon stats?

>>36125595
I was thinking more like each Magic Skill just had a pre-set fail outcome attached. What's the system, 1d6+skill+attribute? So you'd need to get, say, 16 to cast the spell but if you roll below, say 12, then it backfires in some way. Between 12 and 16, you don't cast but it doesn't blow up in your face either.

But it's specific mechanics like that that we should ignore for now.

>>36125596
>PCs aren't allowed to be old
I... what?

>>36125596
>>36125663
Oh, and just to be clear, I don't for a second advocate that the PC could ever rival one of the villainous magic users in power. That could never happen. The villains should only be beatable in a straight fight by a really top notch team of PCs working together and having spent a long time planning and prepping. The magic user can help but they're not going toe-to-toe with Jafar and surviving solo.

>>36125650
A weapon hit gives the opponent a strike. Depending on how the weapon is used, that strike can represent numerous things happening.

The point here is that I like the idea of magic characters, but I don't like the idea of wizards as PCs.

It's a huge difference: magic characters can buy a Trait to get Rapunzel's hair of the ability to breath fire or to walk on the ceiling, but wizards got spells. Wizards can always learn new stuff, can always do very different things, are alway super versatile. Wizards don't get one or two magical abilities: they get all of them. I don't think that's for Disney's protagonists.

>>36125650

I'm gathering what we decided, I'll post them later.

>>36125681

Don't be absurd, you can give Strikes without any weapon.

>>36125663

3d6 + Attribute + Skill + Trait, if you got a related one.

>>36125714
Well then sages aren't wizards. They don't have ALL the magic. I don't know how many more times I can make this clear. Being a Sage does not mean you'll be throwing fireballs, summoning zombies or doing any of the other shit 3.5 wizards can do. YOU'RE A SUPPORT CLASS. THAT IS IT.

>>36125714

Giving those sorts of magical abilities would just be silly though

Breathing fire? That shit is OP

Rapunzel's Hair? The fact that it was INCREDIBLY FUCKING SPECIAL was the whole point of her god damn movie, what are you smoking?

I'll give you "walking on the ceiling" though, but still, eh.

Guys, the guy who suggested making magic has said multiple times that A: It isn't always magic, it could be tech and B: It doesn't make you a "wizard", just somebody who knows a couple of useful spells. You're not Jafar just because you know the odd weapon enchantment. You're more like the trolls from Frozen.

>>36125823

I was making examples, man, I didn't mean we should actually add those Traits to the game

>>36125809

That's good, but I wasn't talking about you or your idea: I was just pointing out what I think is the problem for many people here: that we don't want to have players that can rival Merlin or Jafar.

I'm on board with Alchemy and Technology and Spirit Allies, just as long as we remember that a PC should get a limited list of effect he can create this way.

>>36125809
Then why bother making it a class then? Why not just have all those as abilities and traits?

>>36125869
>we don't want to have players that can rival Merlin or Jafar.
And we won't have players that can rival Merlin or Jafar.
>I'm on board with Alchemy and Technology and Spirit Allies, just as long as we remember that a PC should get a limited list of effect he can create this way.
That's exactly what we'll have.

>>36125891

Good, then we're clear.

>>36125840
It's a classic Strawman.

>People who support magic using PCs want players to be able to turn into a snake like Jafar or use Rapunzel's life giving hair!
>We must have no magic to stop them getting their wish

>>36125887
Because we already have a smart guy class, so why not give him a little more of a role beyond "the smart guy"? We need SOMEBODY who knows what's up with magic, considering the amount of evil magic users they'll have to deal with. Even if they can't equal them in power, knowing counterspells could be a life saver.

>>36125887

I think that's what he wants: Powers for the Smart Guy.

>>36125905

Cool down, McCarthy, no one is plotting against you.

>>36125905
Well, the best easy to stop a Wish spell is to make sure it doesn't exist, so...

>>36125904
>>36125905
So, are you two okay with me creating a chat room to discuss how magic works, so we don't accidentally give Nob a heart attack or derail the thread any further?

Okay, I've got an idea. What if it is simply VERY light utility stuff as magic?

For example, if you are an Atlantean, unlock some form of skill that somehow lets you shine your crystal really brightly to light up caves

If you're from Aggrabah, you can have some small illusion dispells, maybe something to temporalily make tissue invisible or float. For a couple minutes.

Shadowlands? A bad luck voodoo symbol. You draw it somewhere and give it to someone, they'll get a small penalty on the rolls for the next turns while the ink drains itself away

Stuff that is on the really unpowerful end of the spectrum but could be KINDA useful and stuff

>>36125921
>We need SOMEBODY who knows what's up with magic
The occult skill.
>knowing counterspells
Blue players get out. You guys ruined magic.

>>36125943
No thanks.

I've been very clear, I don't want magic users to be considered until the core game is more concretely established.

So what's stopping the players from just wishing away all the villains if Genie's Lamp is found? Maybe they all threatened to set aside their differences and unite against the Sultanate if Jafar's last wish wasn't to prevent a wish from undoing the villains' work?
>>36125965
Sages are the guys with the occult skill, so therefore, give them some VERY limited magic. If you've studied magic long enough to get a high occult skill, why wouldn't you have picked up a couple of cantrips?

>>36125943
Discussing mechanics of the game isn't derailing it, and it's best to keep the discussions in thread and on the archives so that they can be referred back to once everything is finally settled.

>>36125985
Seconded

>>36125943

No: I'd like to keep everything right here.

Moving to a chat room would just create a circle jerk close to new people.

Is making deals with Hades going to be a thing in the game? I'm imagining less scrupulous party members selling out the rest to get into the Elysian Fields.

>>36126019
Or would it? Why not make the change you wish to see, anon?

>>36125994
>if Genie's Lamp is found?
Firstly, Jafar has it so good luck 'finding' it. Secondly, the Genie makes it clear that you can't wish for someone to be dead. Thirdly, I think it should just be kept well away from the game. Jafar used it but where it is now isn't known and it just shouldn't appear in the setting. It's an absurdly powerful item for a PC to obtain.

>>36126000
Still, ever since it was suggested this thread has been nothing but an argument about wizards.
>>36125985
>>36126006
'Kay then. When you think we're ready to start on magic, tell us.

>>36125994

That's the reason I think Genie should be out: Jafar should have used his last wish to get rid of him. He's a smart guy like that.

>If you've studied magic long enough to get a high occult skill, why wouldn't you have picked up a couple of cantrips?

Same reason studying guns doesn't allow you to shoot bullets out of your fingers, I guess: maybe that's just not how magic works.

>>36126023
Various Villains are open to deals. Louis, Beckett, Jones, Hook, Yzma, Hades, the Hunters, Rourke, Ratigan, Ratcliffe. Some others could probably be convinced in the right circumstances.

>>36126068
>I wish that you will never be let out of the lamp, nor communicate with anyone, ever again

>>36125943
Im siding with this guy, so make that s third

>>36126068
Studying guns doesn't stop you knowing how to shoot a gun, though.

>>36125994
Nigga you stupid? You don't get cantrips (D&D players get out) by studying what wizards can and cannot do. Just because I know Maleficient can turn into a dragon it doesn't mean I know how to turn into a lizard. Duh.

>>36126118
If you're studying occult, I'd assume you know how the wizards do it rather than what they do. Any fucker knows Maleficent turns into a dragon. Somebody with an occult skill knows how she turns into a dragon, what kind of dragon it is, and why her clothes aren't destroyed as she changes shape.

>>36126118
This guys got the right idea. Magic has no formula, otherwise its alchemy. You have to born with magic or learn the art from some one who understands it

Threadstarter guy signing off for the night. Whoever makes the new thread, remember to include any updated pastebins.

>>36126148
Who's to say occult ISN'T an understanding of magic?

>>36126113

You have to find a gun first. In magical terms, that could mean anything.

Point is: taking Occult doesn't mean you can start using magic all willy nilly.

>>36126139

>If you're studying occult, I'd assume you know how the wizards do it rather than what they do.

You'd assume wrong: why would any fucker know shit about what Maleficient can do? With Occult you get to know how many bullets there are in her guns, but you don't a gun for yourself.

>>36126101

It's a good wish, yes. My idea was: turn into a human and fuck off.

>>36126139

I think that's not precisely how it works. You can't just simply figure out how that shit works, it's magic. An occult student probably knows what can probably cause an effect on it or something, like disrupting the magical field or stopping it with anti-fey charms or whatever.

>>36126168
Nigga, it's magic

>>36126139
But thats the point though. Maleficient is a faerie, a naturally magical creature. She doesn't cast spells or performs ritauls. She just straight up turns into a dragon by bending the rules of the universe to her whim. Just because a player understands that doesn't mean he can do it

>>36126168

Taking Mechanics doesn't let you build atomic bombs.

>>36126203
And this system is now instantly shit.

>>36126168
Then Occult must be a really, really hard thing to get levels in, because in Disney, magic just IS. The players must never truly know how magic works, other wise, its not magic

I think Occult is less "I can figure out how to do magic" and more like "I can figure out how to DEAL with magic"

Doesn't it make a lot more sense? I think it does

>>36126238

With Occult you should be able to know that Elsa can make snow golems, not how to make snow golems yourself. Occult tells you which villain can make which kind of magical shit, not how many spell slots they get.

>>36126244

Yeah, that's it. That's what I had in mind when I introduced the Skill.

>>36126280
Okay tell me this: does Occult tell you why it happens or how it happens?

>>36126299

Neither: it tells what happens and who can make it happen.

Guys, for fuck's sake.

Occult is the skill that lets you know why Maleficent hasn't just magic'd France away: Because faes are weak to fire.

When the whole world thinks that it's just THE PONTIFEX'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, you know that his Holy Fire is just really fucking dangerous to her.

When the whole world wonders how the Woman's Rebellion in China is keeping up with that century-old civil war and bending the shit out the earth, you know that it is because they have aid from spirits.

When everyone thinks Facilier is a powerful fucking sorceror that made a deal with shadow demons, you know actually that he can't conjure for shit and you should really watch out for the shadows.

When the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD thinks that Jaffar is absolutely invincible, you know that there is something that just might be able to soak in some of his magic so you can attack.

When everybody thinks that it is impossible to talk to the dead, you know that there actually might be a way.

When everybody thinks that Elsa is a witch with inexplicable powers, you know that sometimes people are born with said amazing powers.

THAT IS WHAT OCCULT IS ABOUT.

YOU LEARN SHIT ABOUT HOW TO INTERACT WITH MAGIC, YOU DON'T START FLINGING FIREBALLS.

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Just got binging on suptg. This is pretty dang rad.

Right now, though, I think we need to flesh out some of the other sides. The Aurora seems like a pretty neat concept, but not a lot is getting done with it; the Firebird gets more discussion than it does.

I think the Aurora should be sort of an area of untamed wilderness, but as the various factions moved northward, it got more and more concentrated, trying to pack more and more of nature into a smaller and smaller space. At first glance, it looks like a beautiful national park, but things keep happening that are just blatantly not possible - like pic related, for example.

You can be safe as long as you respect the Aurora. However, the arrival of industry and the rise of Chernobog has long clouded the Aurora's vision, and "respect" is an increasingly risky business. One slip-up... and you're an animal for the rest of your days.

>>36126182
>turn into a human and fuck off.
Ok, that is kinda great because then the PCs can actually bump into Gene Lampman. Maybe he knows some secret information about Jafar's Kingdom that might help the players infiltrate it?

>>36126389

So Occult turns you into a Discworld Witch?

I can dig

>>36126182
>My idea was: turn into a human and fuck off.
Hermione Trainer when Akabur?

>>36126389

Thank you, based Anon.

If Occult let you make magic, it would be called Magic.

>>36126436

My nigga.

Alright. Are we done now? We chill?

Cool, excellent.

Powers, people. We still need some powers specific to classes, and homelands.

I thin we've got plenty of ROBUSTNESS powers, but what about the others?

>>36126610

Just one thing that I need clarifying.

What are EXACTLY the domains of each attribute/class?

ROBUSTNESS is, of course, strenght and endurance, sure.
Numble is dexterity and agility, fine.

But what about Sensibility, Intelligence and Charisma? I am having trouble trying to figure out how each would deal their Strikes. They'd both be Social, sure, but what would exactly be the different?

What is a character with high Sensibility supposed to excell at, for example?

Please, guys, enough of this topic. Let's get to making Powers.

>>36126679
Sensibility is about perception and empathy. Presumably Strikes based on Sensibility could be based around spotting weak points, sensing (and exploiting) emotional states, taking environmental cues etc.

>>36126679
Sensibility is essentially wisdom in a more specific form. Sensibility is seeing through the mercenaries assisting you to realize they just want the Macguffin. Intelligence is seen that the mercs are right now in the perfect positions to kill you without any trouble. Charisma is convincing the mercs that they should split up so half set up camp next to a cave troll's lair while you lead the others into the woods for some serious head-clonking. Sensibility is hearing the Villains monologue of how they're right and you're useless and realizing how wrong they are, charisma is relating that message to the rest of the party, intelligence is refuting the villain on every point and assisting the CHA roll in convincing HIM that HE is shit.

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>>36124922
>mfw

>>36126787
It is true that these three skills are all a bit nebulous. Might we be better without Sensibility?

>>36126394
If by become an animal, you mean the firebird comes to fuck your shit up, that's pretty much what the consensus has been so far

>>36126679

ROBUSTNESS! (muscles and stamina);
Agility (dexterity and hand to eye coordination);
Intelligence (memory and learning speed);
Sensibility (situational awareness and empathy);
Charm (force of personality and pleasantness).

>>36126846
Well the Spirits are going to be one of the two three or four ways for human PCs to experience a Beast adventure (and vice versa). See also, Yzma's potions, Facilier's Shadow Magic and Jafar's Sorcery.

>>36126787
>>36126780

Hmm, cool. Nice, thanks.

>Sensible Power

-Burn one heart point to Immediately detect people in any sort of turmoil or distress in the current situation and know *exactly" what it is and the best way to approach it. Some sort of bonus to diplomatic and convincing rolls or strikes? You could use it to more easily calm down a party member or a wounded beast, to make a character friendlier to you. Or maybe you could just tell captain Hook that he KNOWS his mother is dissapointed and would think he a shit.

-Figure out what the character most prides itself in instantly. Could use it to butter them up a bit, or tell people exactly what they should target in order to break his spirit?

>Charisma Power

-If there is more than two considerable similarities between the character and one other, approach him or her like old friends and gain a bonus to diplomacy and convincing. Something like "Man, aren't our abs just the best? I know a man like you must be as chivalrous and strong as you seem, I know I am!" and stuff like that


I know this is not crunchy at all, but can we do anything with this?

>>36126846
I think the Firebird himself would only show up for things like an attempted expedition or something on that scale. If it's a few wandering travelers, not so much.

>>36126900

You strike with Sensibility and Persuasion by explaining to the henchmen that the villain is clearly treating them like shit and that they have literally no reason to follow him except fear, so they should just pretend they've been defeated and let you go take him down. They have, after all nothing to lose.

You strike with Charm and Persuasion by telling the henchmen that this is between the villain and you and that they have no point even being there, since they are worms compared to their master and you're basically in the same league as him, so they should just fuck off for a while and let the important people deal it off among themselves.

>>36127019

So, you see, Persuasion, Bluff and Music go with Charm when you're working by sheer force of personality, while they go with Sensibility when you are trying to actually understand the hopes and fears of the people around you.

>>36126947
>Sensible Power
Achilles Heel: Identify one target enemy. You are able to spot a crippling weak point. All allied attacks against this enemy get +2 to cause a physical Strike or whatever the terminology is.

Are You Scared?: Identify one character. You are able to discern their greatest fear. All allies get +2 to cause a social Strike.

Ever Thought about Unionising?: Affects a group of enemies that serve some sort of leader. The leader must be absent. You are able to identify and explain that they are being mistreated. Chance of a Social Strike against each individual targeted.

(My crunchy bits are probably not standardised, so if someone wants to take the fluff and crunch it up, go ahead)

>>36127066
First two seem strong but balanced.

Not sure but when I'm not in class I'll crunch the third.

>>36127066

>Use Are You Scared on epic-level villain just before the King

>"HEY GUYS! THIS GUY'S AFRAID OF BANANA PEELS!"

So, when we work on Sage powers, should we make that how we fit in the M-word?

>>36127057

For example:

Alameda Slim gets the cows to follow him by using his Music and his Charm, since he's not relying on his understanding of the cows but on his music alone. He sings "cows follow me" and the cows do it, no questions asked.

Jafar, instead, uses Persuasion and Bluff with his Sensibility, since he's not being pleasant or just straight up cool: he's preying on the weaknesses of those around him, on their fears and their doubts. He humiliate them by striking where it hurts, he doesn't just overpowers them by being the absolute coolest in the room.

>>36127150

See >>36126389

>>36126930
>>36127005
You know what, I totally forgot brother bear was a thing for a minute, that all makes sense

>>36127103
>>36127133
I imagine there'd be a role playing rule where the GM decides the fear or weak point and the bonus only applies to players who can find a way to exploit it.

That should make them self-balancing. If the GM wants the fight to be harder, then he can choose a difficult fear like banana peels and make the PCs work for their bonus.

If it's a mookier enemy then maybe their fear is just loud noises so all the PCs start screaming at each other.

>>36127165

>Charisma is telling people what to do simply by using your natural coolness

I have a friend that would go batshit over this. I am incredibly glad he doesn't know about this system

>>36127168
Yes, and we agreed, I think, that Sage would be the class that used the M-word. Only for very minor things, though. And just as you can fluff them as a wise old hermit or an Atlantean technician or anything in between, feel free to refluff their powers so they don't involve the M-word as you see fit.

>>36127103
>I'll crunch the third.
It's supposed to be a sort of area attack that's balanced by being quite situational.

Maybe it requires at least three enemies but with each extra enemy beyond three, the chance of a successful strike becomes reduced. It's harder to convince a hostile mob that they're being mistreated.

>>36127192

>Screaming at each other

>Not bursting into a heavy metal song about VICTORY

Senpai pls

>>36127194

Welcome to Disney, where being right doesn't depends on your well thought out arguments as much as it does on your BEING RIGHT!

>>36127230
BELIEVE IT!

>>36127200

Not necessarily, only if you take Occult.

Otherwise you're just a pretty cool nerd

>>36127229
I was roleplaying as a group of Wild West PCs, not Aradelleans.

>>36127165
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZcsrtiUac
That is pretty fucking charming.

>>36127230
>>36127249
Example: Gaston. He was the town's moron but through sheer machismo he enthralled an entire town to go full on mob against the thing that terrified them. Gaston is an example of a low INT but high CHA character with some decent sensibility when it comes to playing the crowd.

>>36124560
>Bobby 'Facilier' Proud

I missed that. That is the single most hilariously awesome idea I've ever heard, and I've been here since thread one.

>>36127263

Or Mechanics, if you're using Atlantean technology.

>>36123406

Alright, give me some room, boys.

Here's what I need from you fellas:

A list of specializations for each class.

A list of the Realms, and which ones haven't had much done with them.

From those, I can start making some fireworks, hopefully.

I'll try, right now, to write a KLR for The Shadowlands.

>>36127263
Did you miss most of the thread? We've agreed that Sages get various minor support uses of the M-word. Occult is knowing what the m-word means, not knowing how to use it.

>>36127300

What exactly do you mean by specializations?

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>>36127285
Facilier is the name of the Shadow Demon that possessed him. Observant PCs might be able to free Bobby, especially if they roam around Florida and find his brother first.

>>36127285
This is how i fell in love with /tg/ again. This project has been going well and I am proud to be a part of it but Facilier being Bobby Proud is the greatest bit of canon to come from this and I love you all for it.

>>36127332
>roam around Florida

There are more pleasant and efficient ways to court Death and Madness, anonymous.

When someone eventually runs a campaign after we finish, dibs on strong guy from Arrendale

>>36127389
>Whole of Disney canon to choose from
>DIBS ON THE VIKING

>>36127269
. . . those three blonde guys seem really focused on Alameda's ass.

>>36127300

El Dorado hasn't had much of anything

Yzma's Sunless Empire is pretty empty as well

Virginia doesn't have much going on for it

Neverland

Pridelands? I'm not too sure about those, but I don't recall them too much

>>36127422
Arrendale aren't vikings though, they're a post-Christinization very much European nation. I just think that the whole idea of somehow surviving in the arctic wasteland of Arrendale for inexplicable purposes (BACKSTORY) is a cool idea.

>>36127389
I call the dinosaur! There are still Styracosaurus out there, right?

>>36127451

Remember what we decided about Never Land: Dream Realm whose Dreamer, Wendy, has been taken captive by Ursula after Hook made her walk the plank.

Now that the Island is starting to Be There in the material world, Hook has realized he made a mistake and wants Wendy back.

>>36127429
You are the third person to mention that...

>>36127492
I call the Book Lizard!

>>36127389

Dibs on the Sensible Guy/Gal from either the Wild West/Virginia or the Shadowlands. Or the Pixie.

Or maybe even the PUNCH PIXIE

>>36127497
Oh yeah, thanks. I forgot

>>36127505
I call strong squirrel

>>36127503
Well, it's true. Very, very focused on it.

EXPANDED SOCIAL MECHANICS WHEN

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So. Lets talk about the Power of Love, but not just love, True Love.

In this setting, many true loves have been just destroyed (barring resurrection) or never existed at all. For example, Prince Adam is dead leaving Belle wanting vengeance, and Hercules and Megara never got the chance to meet.
In the latter example, was the True Love there to begin with? I say not. I'm of the opinion that True Love and the power that can come with it could potentially happen despite the source material canon being ruined.

What I'm getting at is: Will we be able to waifu/husbando NPCs who would have ended up with someone else if everything hadn't gone so horribly wrong?

>>36127492
The only Dino's statted at the moment are carnosaurs.

CHARISMA ALLOSAURUS is still possible.

>>36127505
Actually, no! I call the pixie pugilist with an Irish accent!

>>36127516

And Kronk will call out to you, my friend!

>>36127556

I thought Pixies were mute?

>>36127569

He can just interpretative dance with an Irish accent.

>>36127537

You just want to cockblock the disney princes, don't you Anon

>>36127561
He will be like the father I wish I had

>>36127537
Yes we will. True Love is based on feelings you have upon meeting somebody, not fate. And even if it WAS based on fate, that clearly isn't their fate in this universe.
>>36127569
There've been plenty of Disney sources featuring talking Pixies. Peter Pan wasn't the only one.
>>36127588
So, Irish dancing?

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>>36127589
Only the ones that are already dead.

>>36127608

INTERPRETATIVE irish dancing!

And now, a short musical interlude!

Snow Anna:
'Do you wanna build a snowman?'
Sounds like something she would say
It's only speculation 'cuz
I've never met
Old Anna anyway-
You used to be best buddies
But now she's dead
I wish you would just cheer up!
'Do you wanna build a snowman?'
I really hope it's not a snowlem

*Elsa is non-responsive*

Snow Anna:
Okay, fine...

>>36127554
GOOD GUY ALLOSAURUS TIME, THEN!

Or maybe good guy Charcharodontoasaurus? Carnotaurus? Acrocanthosaurus?

>>36127630
[riverdances interpretively]

>>36127537
someone wants to fuck elsa

>>36127300

KING: Doctor Facilier, also known as The Shadowman, is rumored to be more than just a man. Supposedly, he was once a simple musician, with a wider than usual third eye. They say a poorly worded deal with a Shadow Demon made the menace most know today. If so, it would explain much of his personality.
For of all the Kings and Queens, Facilier is noted for being the most...Human. That isn't to say he doesn't wield fearsome powers, but rather that his persona is the most relatable. Facilier is known for his humor, his cordiality, and his frequent public appearances. He is a man of his people, and his people are the dead, the shadow, and the swamp. When crossed, cheated, or just insulted, he can fly into a towering fury, and when so moved, shadows flit and snatch by his will. Men have been torn in half in the middle of the street, children snatched from distant homes, and secrets spat out that were known by no man living. His power is like a Rot: if you can see it, you're already in trouble. And it goes much deeper than you think.

LAND: The Shadowlands are, as far as realms go, similar to their master. For the most part, they're simply a vast series of bayous, old-growth forests, caverns, and so on. The land is formed as if it means to hide something from the rest of the world. Shadows are long and dark here, and the sun shines less brightly than you think it should. Beasts and men alike skulk in these shadows, either for protection, or to ambush the unwary. The land is hungry, grasping, and dark. But for all this, it is not innately hostile to life. It just wants a cut of the action.

RULE: Your Word Is Your Bond/Don't Eat Your Words. Facilier is man of gambles, deals, and bargains. And his land is one too. Where the Rule settles in, people are held to their words. Their EXACT words. The Phrase "Or Die Trying" has ended more than a few adventurers in these lands. If you make a deal, you Keep it. Or you bleed for it.

>>36127608

Well, yeah, but were they speaking to other people or just to each other? I think that fairy language doesn't necessarily mean human. But eh, I'm just nitpicking, whatever floats your boats.

>>36127630
>>36127608

>The Pixie lands atop the Charismatic Guy's head and crosses arms, and starts her/his WAR DANCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8EXDtoGfrs

>>36127652
Somebody doesn't?

Just got home thought to archive this thread. Sorry for not contributing as much as I would have liked. You're all doing Disney's work here.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Disney+Villains+Victorious

Please vote it up if you like it!

>>36127652

But Anna existed.

>>36127638
Gallows humor works so well for the situation. I'm surprised no one else thought of this.
>>36127652
Who doesn't?

>>36127652

I don't want that frigid bitch, Anon

>>36127667
I'm worried that PC parties will erupt in fighting amongst themselves and ruin their TRUE FRIENDSHIP BONUSES® (Which should be implemented at some point) upon redeeming elsa over who gets to court her

>>36127652
We are not having this conversation.
So, we need to balance humans and beasts. Should we give them more starting traits/attribute points to contrast the beast attribute bonuses?

>>36127703
>redeeming Elsa
>Not just taming the Firebird and blitzing her

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>>36127638

I love EVERYTHING about this. I will eat up whatever else you wish to do with Ice Anna.

>>36127685
>>36127652
Remember, kids: It's not incest if it's in a threesome.
>>36127703
At which point, Elsa is just like "Fuck you guys, you're all cunts. I'm out."

>>36127711

Isn't the fact that humans can use gear without as many requirements the balancing point?

>>36127699
>>36127703
>>36127685
>>36127667
>>36127652
You realize that after Hans, shes probably never going to fully open up to you guys?

>>36127703
Dude. Bros competing over a girl is the best way to foster companionship.

>>36127755
>after Hans

Wrong sister, retard

>>36127660
Sorry, character limits.

RULE (cont): Charismatic characters be warned, The Rule doesn't hold with lies. Even a white lie has been known to cause spontaneous combustion of the speaker's trousers.
An interesting twist of the Rule is that, as far as some can tell, it binds even Facilier himself: The Shadowman has never been known to speak a direct lie. Some wise in the Occult posit this is because the Rule is not technically his, but rather, that of his Friends on the Other Side.

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>>36127723
>taming the Firebird

>>36127755

I know, I was just in there for the pun

What countries still need National Anthems? I have a bit of free time and I will start to work on them

>>36127773
I'd rather invest the time and effort than risk Elsa's redemption

>>36127782
>taming firebird is more likely than reedeming elsa

ror you rong

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>>36127665

What you just said. It is glorious.

>>36127767
>Hes never seen a Disney movie
Unless they agree their friendship is more important, consider their friendship sunk

>>36127771
Because seeing your sister get killed because of the man she thought loved her won't cause a disinterest in love at all.

>>36127737
Yes, but they have bonuses to Brawl to make up for their lack of weapons. Perhaps other gear for humans could balance it.

>>36127782
You clearly don't understand the relative power level difference you're deal with regarding the Fire Bird.

>>36127696

We did: there's a bit of writefagging about the whole situation.

Sweet, sweet frozen tears.

>>36127767
>after what happened to Anna

>>36127805
Is this how Maleficent and Grimhilde go about defeating their foes? Pretending to be cute princesses, and then tearing apart the friendships of their enemies?

>>36127638

Why must you hurt me so, Anon?

why?