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>>36175253
>2.

You don’t have time to waste on machismo. You’d duelled Hallim to make the seizure of the palace as fast as possible. Otherwise, he didn’t seem all that dangerous. What was dangerous were the mages that believed that using such dangerous sorcery was a good idea, not the mercenaries that were in it for the gold or glory.

You charged up the stairs, trying to remember the map of the palace the mages had given you. On the third floor you begin to find the bodies. Mages and knights who had clearly gotten in the way of Bael, Marek and Mal. Scenes of carnage are the result, between Bael’s absurdly large sword, Mal’s magic and Marek’s… come to think of it, you haven’t seen the monk fight. Nevetheless, you also note that despite the severe wounds the knights have taken, with enormous rents in their armour, there is no blood. That bothers you somehow.

The lift in the mage tower still works and you find it waiting for you – no doubt Mal sent it back down in expectation of your arrival. It enormously speeds up your journey, though you feel antsy standing inside the contraption as you begin to feel the magical battle raging above you get ever closer. Once you’re out of the lift, you charge towards where you can feel the magic, fearful that you’re too late. Screams and shouts come from the great ritual room on the penultimate floor and you charge inside, shield raised.

>continued

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>>36175264
Mal is directly in front of you, looking harried and wounded, his robe partially shredded and blood runs down his arms as he hurriedly casts. The blood may have come from battle but, ever the pragmatist, he doesn’t hesitate to cut complicated spells down in casting time by using it as a catalyst. Blood flicks about him, glowing prismatic and surging into his spells. You’ve never seen your friend casting so many disruption spells so desperately – and you know their disruption spells from the sheer amount of disturbance he’s generating in the magical flow of the room. It would take one hell of a mage to cast in this mess.

Yet it is left to Marek to fight that mage, his arms batting away scythes of green energy as he attempts to punch through and damage his towering foe. He steps back right as you enter the room, making a series of gestures before his foe can strike. There’s a strange surge of energy and his enemy is briefly disabled, enabling the monk to charge in with a palm strike, knocking the mage backwards but only shattering a single barrier.

And it is Bael who surprises you, fighting off two of the three remaining combat magisters, who appear to be losing their sanity and bodies. One lay dead on the ground, bloodless. Another has lost an arm and is barely capable of keeping up her blasts of spears and lead as glowing green blood pours out of her wounds. The last desperately tries to fell Bael with powerful magical lances, making use of superior speed to keep away. Yet Bael does not care for their efforts, his armour glowing a faint red and shrugging off all blows. The slightly twisted horns atop his helmet seem to be alight with fire and his helmet’s visor glows with an inner fire, just as blade does. You doubt that much can withstand that flame, going from the legends you’ve heard of the Lord of Ember’s flames.

>continued

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>>36175306
The mage that Mal and Marek are trying to best rises to his… feet. A great mass of sickly energy appears to be around him, shifting between mist and some form of corporeal energy. His human form is clearly failing under whatever magic he is attempting to use and his body is slowly becoming an extension of the energy. Something instinctual deep inside tells you that if he isn’t killed before fully transforming things will go very poorly.

“Imperator, help me slay these mages so that we might destroy the mage together,” Bael bellows when he senses you, his blade missing one of the mages by a hair’s breadth, his flame searing said mage’s arm.

“To hell with that, we need to deal with the mage right now,” Mal shouts in return. “Either help me keep his magic at bay or help Marek kill him!”

You…

>1. Help Bael kill the combat magisters before the two of you help Marek.
>2. Help Mal keep the mage’s magic at bay through astral projection and flow animation.
>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage.
>4. Custom

Also, sorry that took so long. 45min is pretty bad, even for a long post like this.

>>36175328
>>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage.

>>36175284
I wander if we can get mages trained to make summons that ignore people with a specified keyed wardstone. And then mass produce that at a magitech factory.
That way they could go in side by side with our troops.
We can change the wardstone yearly and before major engagement

Although, would it even help to have them side by side instead of sent in two waves?

>>36175306
>it is Bael who surprises you, fighting off two of the three remaining combat magisters
Jesus

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>>36175338
As he told you, Bael is essentially a mage-killer model of God-Knight, which was popular shortly after the Great War with the mages but lost popularity once the shadow-beasts become a greater threat and the Lords were warring with Malataine's knights more.

>>36175328
>>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage.

>>36175328
This is a hard one. On one hand having a freed up Bael would be absurdly useful right now. On the other hand Bael has a lot of durability that Marek lacks.

>>36175328
>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage.
>>36175368
Do we have any idea who this mage is? I mean, I assume he's an important grand Magister of some sort.

>>36175328
>>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage

>>36175328
Who is closest?

How fast can we do kinetic blasts? I was thinking we throw some at the battle mages to make an opening for bael while we charge the transforming mage with our sword and do a barrier break

Then agian, maybe splitting our attention that way would be fatal?
although, as much as I want to have mal's back, I got a feeling the tactically sound thing is to help bael

WAIT! Custom idea.
Bael specializes in barrier breaking. Switch out, you take the two CMs on while he helps them take out the big bad mage

>>36175328
>3. Help Marek kill the transforming mage.
Bael is holding his own, while Mal and Mar aren't plus we need to stop this thing.

>>36175467
>WAIT! Custom idea.
>Bael specializes in barrier breaking. Switch out, you take the two CMs on while he helps them take out the big bad mage
And we can help mal dispel the oncoming attacks while we explain the plan to him

>>36175467
>>36175489
Might be onto something here.

>>36175489
>And we can help mal dispel the oncoming attacks while we explain the plan to him
PS, the reason for that is that he needs a breather, he is the only one of them that is injured and is barely holding it.

>>36175574
Honestly the best breather he can get is if that mage casting all this magic dies. It's great we showed up here at least. If we where any later then shit would get real.

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Second-to-last update for the night. Also, everyone should pretend that Bael called Talon ‘Lord’ instead of Imperator last update.

>3.

Your path is clear and you leap across the room to aid Marek. The monk is clearly adept in close quarters but you suspect his talents are more suited for a support role. You wade in and slam the mage back down before he can do anything of consequence, turning your head to Marek. He catches your drift and leaps back, his hands launching into a series of gestures again.

“Take down his barriers and I can finish this, Talon,” Marek grinds out.

Easier said than done. Magic was flaring all across the room, and especially near you. Mal was practically ripping the reinforcement out of the stone the tower was built from, so powerful and overwhelming was his disruption magic. Yet the transforming mage seemed to just power through the disruption, the only complication being he could only cast instantly. He suddenly resummons those scything green tendrils that Marek had destroyed a moment earlier, and you grunt as they slam into your shield. If this is the power the mage can wield in this environment, you’d have to see what it was doing outside of it.

The barriers themselves glowed bright and obvious, the runes they were formed from hanging visibly in the air, so thick was the magic. Their forms appear corrupted, twisted mockeries of the straight and neat runes you usually see in magic. Yet you cannot punch through them with your flow animation, simply because the air is so thick with magic and disrupted so readily there is no flow to speak of. Merely chaos. The power in the air surges to and fro with reckless abandon and you find it hard to move. Marek was somehow moving his fingers in intricate gestures in this mess and you were hardly able to move anything below your wrist.

>continued

>>36175328
>His human form is clearly failing under whatever magic he is attempting to use and his body is slowly becoming an extension of the energy. Something instinctual deep inside tells you that if he isn’t killed before fully transforming things will go very poorly.
You know, in retrospect. I get the feeling that unlike the other options, this indicates that going for 3 would be the most likely to lead to a new FR point.

... then again. I might be misreading it. while following our instincts with good results is being proven right. so is coming up with the best tactical solution to a problem even if we aren't the person to personally deliver the killing blow to the target.

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>>36175627
The mage lets out a screech and you hammer into it with your sword, cleaving some of the enrgy away, your flow animation still able to sever the connections between the mage and the errant magic. Mal’s disruption spells swiftly tear the tendrils away, the magic within them permeating the area further. The mage begins to recast them, furthering his transformation. You can see the end-game here and you don’t like it. You need to be drastic.

You need to tear this monster apart directly with astral power.

>1. Balance. It may be difficult, but with enough focused power you should be able to peel apart the barriers like Marek wants you to. Then the monk can reduce the beast to what is necessary for the world to continue on as is.
>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.
>3. Life. If the mage wants to use astral power you’ll show him who is the true master around here. You’ll destroy him with his own power and demonstrate that it is the user, not the power, that is at fault.

Note, this choice is slightly more than just a standard path choice.

>>36175654
>>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.

The time for subtly is long pass. We will show him the power of the future emperor of the world.

>>36175654
>>3. Life. If the mage wants to use astral power you’ll show him who is the true master around here. You’ll destroy him with his own power and demonstrate that it is the user, not the power, that is at fault.

>>36175654
thinking about it.
wouldn't the cause of balance be best served by going with life? (since it is our least attuned affinity? thus we balance our affinities more?)

>>36175654
>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.

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>>36175712
That's not what balance is. In the same way that remaining neutral isn't a matter of doing an equal number of good and evil acts (or working for both sides in a war etc).

>>36175654
>3. Life. If the Mage wants to use astral power you'll show him who is the true master around here, you'll destroy him with his own power and demonstrate that it's the user, not the power, tha is at fault.

>>36175654
they are all so good, I have trouble deciding.

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>>36175654
>>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.

>>36175654
>>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.

And the number of unique posters isn't going up at all.

>>36175858
They're all good options.

>>36175654
What truly would be badass would be mixing all three of these versions, starting with life, throwing him off with the way you turn his powers against him. Causing a major freak-out which would let you start phase 2, Balance and disrupting that shield for your buddies to counter-attack which you then finish off with Power, blasting him to kingdom come.

>>36175858
8 posters (including OP?), 9 votes.

>>36175654
>1. Balance. It may be difficult, but with enough focused power you should be able to peel apart the barriers like Marek wants you to. Then the monk can reduce the beast to what is necessary for the world to continue on as is.

>>36175917
Just remember, Jack of all trades gets murdered by the Master of one.

>>36175654
>3. Life. If the mage wants to use astral power you’ll show him who is the true master around here. You’ll destroy him with his own power and demonstrate that it is the user, not the power, that is at fault.

>>36175654
>>2. Power. If you can tear apart the barriers, you can destroy the mage. A huge surge of astral power through your body and sword will let you get through and destroy the mage’s mind. Without a mind to control the power, it will be free and what doesn’t flow freely will be yours.

>>36175947
That depends on the power levels. MMA is proof of the opposite.

>>36175947
Pretty much. We mostly need to focus on one or two things to do really well. Otherwise we start to get caught in the generalist trap.

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>>36175253
i got annoyed/bored at how I kept fucking up the hands and gave up

attempted quicksketch of hallim

>>36175998
Okay anon that is actually pretty badass.

>>36175998
Something about the hands reminds me of Hellsing.

>>36175998
Thats pretty good

>>36175998
That's pretty fucking cool.

>>36175654
>3. Life. If the mage wants to use astral power you’ll show him who is the true master around here. You’ll destroy him with his own power and demonstrate that it is the user, not the power, that is at fault.

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>>36175998
Wow. That's amazing, especially for a quick sketch. It really captures his essence, too. He's a crazy bastard.

>2.

You grit your teeth as you summon as much power from the depths of your being as you are able to. Your muscles scream in pain from the energy stretching them to bursting point, so great that you can still feel the pain despite your Iron Body. Your sword becomes almost blindingly bright, the humming becoming a high pitched whine as the world begins to break apart around it. You feel like you’re grasping a new technique here but you simply lack the time to realise it.

The mage fills the air with energy but you spurn it. It is your power that will realise its end. Then you shall claim the spoils. It’s dangerous to touch such corruption before that moment, you feel. As the monster surges with another casting you move. Your shield slams into its outer barriers with a sweeping swing, seeming to tear them aside like a great claw. Before Marek or the mage can react, your sword takes all of your momentum and strength and ploughs into its target. Then, with your sword buried up to its hilt in a great monster, you unleash your power. Power meets power for a brief instant, as though two unstoppable forces met, then reality resumes and all life is snuffed out of your foe.

There is one frightening moment when you fear you’ve miscalculated. The power that floods the room from the mage appears, for just that one instant, to be running free. You begin to desperately muster your remaining power to cage it, as Marek curses and Bael breaks free from his slain foes. Then the power settles and returns to nothing, without even the spark of prismatic light that signals the transition of magical energy from the material to the magical.

>continued

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>>36176101
“I- what?” Marek says, almost collapsing as his technique is suddenly unnecessary. “What just happened?”

“That is his affinity. Do not worry. It is done,” Bael says, seeming to know something you don’t.

“Well, whatever happened, I know what happens next,” Mal says. “We clean this place up and call in the experts. Will that be your order, Marek, or Alyce’s mages? Or even the Guard, though I doubt that.”

“I would prefer the archangel, actually,” Marek says. “I doubt that Raphael was unaware of what almost happened here but I know he should definitely be there to confirm it is clean now.”

You nod and have Mal start issuing the sendings once you all take a breather. It’s been a long morning.

>That’s the thread. And Shropham.

As I announced in the OP, I’m taking a month long break. Partly to catch up on shit I need to. Partly because I think I really need to take a break. When threads go well (like today), they go really well. When threads are kinda slow or sloppy (like the last half-dozen or so) it’s pushing me a bit and that’s a major problem. So the break should help with that, I hope.

Next thread will be on the 16th of December or later. Keep an eye on Twitter for the precise date. The next arc will be a diplomatic/economic one which I’m hoping to keep better paced than the last bout of downtime. Assuming you guys don’t just fight the Mage Guard here and now.

I’m unfortunately not available after the thread for questions, except for a brief spurt in about an hour. Post questions and I’ll answer them if the thread is still up in about 13 hours or I’ll post answers in a bin on Twitter. You can also just discuss whatever. I'd appreciate feedback on the combat this thread (I was pretty happy with it) and general comments on pacing and how things have been handled lately.

>>36175998
very nice.

>>36176120
So just to be sure. Shropham is done now?

>>36176120
Thanks for running, Was exciting as always.

>>36176120
Thanks for running!

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>>36176153
It's effectively conquered, yes. We'll resume with the Mage Guard stuff and Raphael in the aftermath.

>>36176120
Thanks for running OP.

>>36176120
>Left marek speechless
giggity.

>>36176176
So, we're locked into Power and from there we further specialize, or is it going to be a boarder power set than I'm thinking?

>>36176101
>he's a crazy bastard

daw. I really want to convert him to our side. I find the off kilter characters like him or Felix more fun to read than the steadfastly loyal ones (though Malbro is pretty awesome)

>>36176176
Will Talon realize that technique later now when he has time to think about what he did?

Also guys next time we see Raphael ask if we it's possible for us to make Revenants just in case a powerful ally dies.

>>36176120
Is there a reason it can't be both raphael and marek's order? AFAIK the two are on good terms and work well together. getting stuff done twice as fast.

>>36176120
Thanks for running bro was a great thread. Have a good break, I'll be here when you get back unless Im dead.

I left all my hype in the other thread as I caught up. I thought the combat was really awesome, that finish on the duel was so amazing and satisfying.

>>36176219
He did say we could mix and match. I get the feeling we can do both. But that is a good question.

>>36176176
Just to ask. Did Hallim run away or will we be seeing him again soon?

>>36176241
see >>36174594
Basically, we have rematches with him. it will make us both stronger. Eventually recruiting him to our side through the broing up of fighting hard.

I can already imagine how this will go with Merce.

"Do you want to know how shropham went? I got into a fist fight with Hallim while some crazy mages where using Pharos sorcery to try and reach astral power. Leading to me rushing in to find my best friend, a monk and a god knight all fighting against a mage turning into raw magic power."

>>36176372
>turning into raw magic power.
and going completely insane in the process.

also, you started with the end. There is so much more to tell. the spears and your noble knights hilarious solution of just punching their enemies to death instead.
The drum enchantment... the horror golem thing.

Waiting on food. Answering some questions on phone.

>>36176274
Hallim ran. Probably wants to fight you again.

>>36176246
You'll learn new techniques llikeSunder the more you choose a specific path.

>>36176219
Broad power set. Paths get stronger the more you specialise however.

>>36176469
Cool. Not to bother, but is there any up to date research project info? Just wanted to ask before my phone died.

>>36176512
Not really. Havent really touched extra material for the same reason as the bins.

>>36176469
>Broad power set. Paths get stronger the more you specialise however.
is there a finite amount of "points" so to speak to distribute between various powersets?
like hypothetically, our max power at which we plateu could be either
>Power 10
or
>Power 8/Life 3/Balance 3

Or is it just a matter of time lost such that by the time we reach P8/L3/B3 (age 500?) we could have reached P10, but we can still reach P10 with more years of effort. And the "getting set in yours ways" thing raphael told us about is merely referring to mental state?

... then again. Bael explicitly contradicted raphael on that point. So it seems that there are mutliple lines of thought on that issue among astral beings. I wonder if this is a point of contention between the god knights and the angels.
Then again, we aren't a god knight.

>>36176532
I think it's kind of like an old person here. Talon as he gets older/grows as an astral being starts seeing the world more and more as he sees it so to say.

So he does choose how he views the world in some perspective.

>>36176442
The golem will be really funny. "So here I am Merce fighting a building or so sized Golem. What do I do? I stab it to death and pass out for a while."

>>36176750
>I think it's kind of like an old person here.
that is what I think as well, I just want to make sure that it refers to rigidity of though, like an old person.
rather than max XP to distribute around.

>>36176851
I'm actually pretty sure you eventually get cut off and can only go deeper into his powerset. But you can also easily choose something like 2 options it's just that a certain point Talon locks down.

But this is just from what I remember from threads 30+ ago.

You know thinking on it that Talon has to use a sending device is a pretty big tip to what is up.

>>36176823
"Then after my nap I fought Hallim that combat magister in a duel"

"...what? Uh what happened then?"

"I took an elevator up to find Mal after I punched him in the face"

".....What..?"

"So I get to the top and mages are turning into some kind of horrible abominations and I could just feel bad things happening if the biggest one finished."

"...d..Don't stop..."

"So I stabbed it so hard it lost connection to the world."

*Furious wet noises*

"....You still there?"

>>36177009
You just know Alyce would be secretly listening in on that conversation.

>>36177009
Hahah. Though I do wonder how much the archmage really did know about this? This would be an efficient way to clean house.

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If the thread is still alive, I'll answer any new questions in about 12 hours or so.

>>36176532
There's essentially thresholds of power. If Raphael is right, you'll effectively get locked into a path at some point. As you can only get so powerful without becoming truly inhuman, then there is a hard limit before reaching that point. If you overcome that, then it'll just be a case of very slow progression.

>>36177028
heh For sure.

>>36177035
Does make me wonder if we should get Alyce and Syl in on a 3 way call to talk about it or maybe be listening in during the discussion with everyone. Have them both keep an eye out for stuff like this and subtly get them used to working together.

>>36177046
>There's essentially thresholds of power. If Raphael is right, you'll effectively get locked into a path at some point. As you can only get so powerful without becoming truly inhuman, then there is a hard limit before reaching that point. If you overcome that, then it'll just be a case of very slow progression.
Interesting....
I wonder if surpassing that means giving up our humanity.

I was thinking how saereg has both life and death in balance. but then again, as a revenant he is truly inhuman

>>36177120
I don't see this 3 way happening.

>>36177174
I think that has something to do with the archangels.

Death/Life domain. He can only use one at a time. But we also know he started out astral even before he was a revenant.

>>36177120
That would probably explode in our face very quickly. We are already nat 20 fishing when it comes to getting them to get along.

>>36177046
I have a question
if we had gone after the 2 CMs or helped mal, would we have gotten the path choice now?

>>36177046
How many men can Talon lead now? With leadership 3 that is.

>>36178204

Many?

>>36178204

I think the effective command is upwards of 10k. The maximum is probably the 50k range. I want to say we've been told Falwick's command is somewhere in that range

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>>36177390
Yes, but the consequences would have been different.

>>36178204
About 20k.

>>36180399
Assuming we could convince Alyce (big assumption) would it be possible to hold a small regional summit on our discoveries (mainly the spears) when taking Shropham?

How ludicrously deadly is undine in naval combat?
Does our navy have a water elemental who likes to badger undine like Bartom does Gnome?
Why is Finn so adorable?
How many fluffy tails could an imperator touch if an imperator could touch fluffy tails?

>>36181972
>Does our navy have a water elemental who likes to badger undine like Bartom does Gnome?
that sounds adorable

>>36181972
Why did this make me thing of chibi elemental sisters?

Also, all the fluffy tails.

You know I just realized Talon's technique he used to finish the fight was sunder.

Flow animation+ Sunder II would be an Daerfirs worst nightmare. Sunder II creates wounds that will not heal without astral. Daefir tattoos automatically drain power in an attempt to heal any wound. These two abilities combined would be a hard counter for them. Even if they got stabbed in the shin with a knife it would pretty much infinitely drain their life trying to heal.

>>36181972
If there isn't we should summon Barton's brother for that sole purpose.

We should also get Arail to summon an air elemental.

>>36182697
Actually now that I think about it a little more it would also be an infernals nightmare. Since they lack Astral as well.

>>36182782
>We should also get Arail to summon an air elemental.

I now have a image of a random air Elemental wanting to stick around Slyph now.

>>36183021
Which led me to the image of Sala being chased by a swarm of fireflies.

>>36180399
>About 20k.
>Talon could lead more then half of the current forces in the entire empire.

>>36183063
Salamander would probably enjoy that honestly.

Though thinking on it next thread we should tell Bael that he is welcome to stay in Talons land anytime he needs to. Dude was damn good.

>>36180399
How hard would it be for us to copy the magic drum trick Shropham used? That proved very useful for them.

>>36180399
Not >>36177390
but i'm hoping you could lay out like a tiny skeleton of what would have happened if we had helped mal? I'm just curious and with your hiatus i need something to hold on to

>>36183143
>we should tell Bael that he is welcome to stay in Talons land anytime he needs to.

>>36175627
>everyone should pretend that Bael called Talon ‘Lord’ instead of Imperator last update.
>“Lord, help me slay these mages so that we might destroy the mage together,” Bael bellows

I thought this was a pretty significant plot point. Something like tacit acknowledgement of Talon as (his?) lord, rather than "hey Imeratorbro I am respectfully speaking to on equal terms"

Feels like between fighting off/surviving the golem thing and 1v1ing Hallim we've become worthy of following in his eyes? Like rather than a curiosity with potential, we've become something of an investment and one that has proven worth following, even if we're currently weaker than him

>>36184998
Bagel has been calling Talon Lord since they met. It's more likely an old habit rather then acknowledgement

>>36184998
He has been calling him lord since they met. Though I think it's interesting that he won't call him Imperator. Think who else is called Lord who is around the god knights.

>>36185020
>Bagel

WHAT IS WITH THIS QUEST AND NAMES

>>36185076
>Fenix/Felix
>Tssuchi
>Bael/Bagel

>>36181972
That actually gives me a few ideas for upgrading our navy:
1. Swap out archers for Arcane Archers. Kinda obvious, but worth mentioning.
2. Build a new flagship worthy of Talon's ego. In addition to being at least of composite construction (there are ways of reinforcing wooden ships with iron/steel even if we can't build the thing completely of steel), and magically reinforced as best as possible, the ship is designed to have a unit of water elementals and if need be serve as the vessel from which Undine proves her undisputed mastery of the seas.
3. Take advantage of the fact that patterns don't need to breed to create an underwater version who's job is to sneak underneath ships-of-the-line, penetrate their passive barriers, and inflict fatal damage below the waterline before they even know they are under attack.

>>36185076
OP is bad at making names and tends to avoid actually giving people names whenever possible. Also, has a bad habit of giving people almost identical names.

>>36185173
breath, not breed, though I suppose they don't need to do that either.

>>36185203
>Also, has a bad habit of giving people almost identical names.

About the only similar name I can think of is Fenix and Felix.

>>36185173
We honestly right now don't really need to work on the navy much. As we advance inwards the place gets more and more landlocked. Though we will need to build up for Pharos.

Honestly one of my top thoughts right now is building a transport ship so we can pack men inside of it.

Another trick is to pull some tips from Pharos and use foxes with the ships. Also the Ballistas would probably be better in general vs ships then a mass of Arcane archers.

Underwater patterns would be end game I think. Once they where done though it would be nigh impossible to beat. Have Mal make a focused disruption magic spike on the things and just spike everything till it sinks.

>>36185472
>We honestly right now don't really need to work on the navy much. As we advance inwards the place gets more and more landlocked. Though we will need to build up for Pharo
Actually, we might be in a war with the Mage Guard soon, and they outnumber our navy heavily. We kinda need more ships.

>>36185517
We have a year there and they will probably be mostly focused on the large army charging inwards. We should build up but it isn't the largest concern. That would be building up Farun and the ground army. We are also Lacking LMK templates. Need to work on getting Ren drunk as shit so we can talk longer. Need to work on getting the foxes out of the guard. We should also ask our dear helldragon her plans when the war starts and check up on Mal sense he should be getting a level up soon and that should help with his research.

>>36185173
>1. Swap out archers for Arcane Archers. Kinda obvious, but worth mentioning.
I have actually noticed that our army has no archers anymore. every single archer has been given an AA kit. Because its so cheap and fast to produce compared to MMK and even just compared to regular archer equipment. In fact its actually cheaper and faster to produce it in our magitech factory than regular archer equipment is.

>>36185173
I honestly would rather we don't really focus on navy. Focus on continental warfare instead.

>>36185517
Leave our warships at the dock at vitria for the duration of the war. Look at the map. we share a land border. them sinking our ships won't help much. them trying to bombard vitria with their ships will leave them vulnerable to bombardment of our own. the only thing their ships can do is disrupt our trade with the other continent. Which, people can just do without for a few months.

>>36185472
>>36185517
From the navy dump
>In terms of current tech, there's really only two classes of naval vessel for the eastern nations: frigates and ships-of-the-line. The former are largely brigantine sized vessels used for patrolling and enforcements and the latter are big bastards (possibly bigger than their historical counterparts) used for stand up fights, boarding and armed transport. A ship-of-the-line with a full crew of skilled sea-mages is pretty much worth a dozen frigates due to the power of defensive magic on a well constructed ship. Vitria has one of them and that ship alone made it a larger naval power than its neighbours. The Guard have a few and the RSK a few dozen. Ships-of-the-line are probably distinguished less by how many decks of guns they have and more by how many ritual stations they have for their mages, how well protected they are etc.
So basically, we're outnumbered 3 to 1 in the ships that matter. So yeah, a military build up is in order. While, >>36185729 is correct that we do have around a year or so, large warships aren't built in a day.
>>36185770
Eh, our entire canal system is basically totally useless if someone parks a fleet off of vitria.

>>36185811
>the only thing their ships can do is disrupt our trade with the other continent.
And Malatine, and the Lords, and the RSK. And halt all the money we get from the Magi league trade that flows through Vitria.
Think of it this way:
Lets assume that each battleship costs 50 TBY to make, and we need to make 1-2 of them to achieve naval parity. The taxes lost in trade of someone shutting down our coastal trade for 3 months would probably cost us at least 200 TBY in taxes. What is the smart move?

>>36185821
>Eh, our entire canal system is basically totally useless if someone parks a fleet off of vitria.
The canal system will still help trade local to this continent, shipping of food to the cities, exporting local goods from vitria, importing from magi league, and most importantly, shipping of troops.
While it will hurt somewhat economically to be blockaded from intercontinental trade for a little while, it isn't worth the massive expense to build our own navy, and then sink theirs
Also, when we DO conquer them, we get all their navy. But if we build our own and have them sink each other, its a massive waste of resources for both.

And the thing is, they can do nothing more than blockade our port and block our trade with the other continent.
Well ok, I gues they could raid less defended coastal towns, or dropping troops to do some slash and burn of our local agriculture. But I don't see them doing this until/unless they get desperate. And even then that can be defended against using local ground troops, especially if we equip them with balistas and the like. Or teleporting right on their ships with hero units

>>36185821
>Eh, our entire canal system is basically totally useless if someone parks a fleet off of vitria.

It's basically useless in general until it gets done. As for warships we mostly just need enough to keep the place defensive. I would suggest we attack Balkarin first. Just because it has two Place Of Powers and because once we have control over it we control their docks.

>>36185931
>And the thing is, they can do nothing more than blockade our port and block our trade with the other continent.
This is wrong. There is a LOT of trade with our own continent. Its literally probably at least 5 times cheaper to ship something by land than to send it over even the best highway.

>>36185885
>And Malatine, and the Lords, and the RSK. And halt all the money we get from the Magi league trade that flows through Vitria.
The RSK does do land trading with us. I am not aware of any trade with malatine and the lords going through vitria.
And as I said, the lost revenue from such a blockade pale compared to the cost of building up our own navy, and pale compared to the cost of all the ships on BOTH sides that would be destroyed in the naval battles. If we put all that money into land equipment instead, we can capture their nation without having a single shot fired between our boats. And then at that point we acquire their entire navy, intact.

>>36185885
>Lets assume that each battleship costs 50 TBY to make
fine, lets assume that
>and we need to make 1-2 of them to achieve naval parity
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>The taxes lost in trade of someone shutting down our coastal trade for 3 months would probably cost us at least 200 TBY in taxes.
I am going to strongly disagree with that figure

>>36185931
Teleporting on the ships would be hard unless we are right there anyway. We mostly just need enough to defend. Once we take over we can add any ships of theirs to ours. Although we will need to build up over time. That way we can stick Talons men on boats and do easier pincer attacks.

>>36185968
>This is wrong. There is a LOT of trade with our own continent. Its literally probably at least 5 times cheaper to ship something by land than to send it over even the best highway.
Or, bear with me here.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/36164274/images/1416003064849.png
We get goods from the magi leage via the canal. then we ship it by land from vitria, to port tembly, to marrogar.
and from there it goes through an RSK ships to rest of RSK / far off lands.
So, there is that extra step. I wouldn't say it is 5x the cost

>>36186063
>We mostly just need enough to defend.
how exactly do you think defending merchant vessels works? you make convoys, and enemy raiders attack those convoys, kills your warships, and captures the tradeships.
Even if you win, you destroy enemy ships and those are valuable and will be ours as soon as we capture their land

>>36185973
I kind of doubt it would be that easy. We have a year to build up against a nation that proably has something like 100-150K men.

>>36186012
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
The Guard has "a few" ships of the line. Assuming a few means 3, and we have 1 right now, you're an idiot.
>I am going to strongly disagree with that figure
Gimme a minute to do some maths.

>>36185973
I kind of doubt it would be that easy. We have a year to build up against a nation that probably has something like 100-150K men.

>>36186085
Or they go pirate and then kill our merchants.

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I'll be back in a few hours to answer any other questions (not that there are too many).

>>36185973
>I am not aware of any trade with malatine and the lords going through vitria.
There was a Malataine trader shown when you implemented the trade licenses. They're kind of like Venice and get a lot of income through trade, especially with Vitria (the largest eastern port).

>>36185748
Pretty much.

>>36185203
I am bad at making names but it's a bit of leap to blame that for somebody calling Bael a bagel.

>>36184056
You could potentially replicate that effect with Power, but it wouldn't be via a drum.

>>36181437
She would want to know but I suspect you might have difficulty getting her to join a summit with the Guard.

>>36181972
>Does our navy have a water elemental who likes to badger undine like Bartom does Gnome?
Not currently, but there is a growing number of elementals in the empire.

>How ludicrously deadly is undine in naval combat?
Probably very.

>>36186112
>Or they go pirate and then kill our merchants.
Not 100% of them.
Those that go pirate will be hunted down by those that don't.
And they won't kill any of our merchants because we would know if any had gone pirate, and if so, we will organize proper patrols and defenses.

>>36186112
>Or they go pirate and then kill our merchants.
pirates require a tortuga. where will they find one?

>>36186096
We have 646.6 TBY in max trade taxes in our costal provinces assuming that a blockade lasts four months, reduces year end trade taxes in those provinces by a third, with no 2nd order effects (there would be some, and they would be ugly, but I'm ignoring them in order to balance out the assumption that we'd get all provinces to 4 control by this time) it would cost us 215.3 TBY.

>>36186135
Sauce?

>>36186202
You are falsely assuming 100% of this trade tax comes from sea trade. Vitria does do a lot of sea trade. But they also do a lot of land trade, and they even export stuff (they export magitech commercial devices, that falls under trade)
You are further assuming that 100% of this tax revenue would be lost in a sea blockade instead of merely reducing it due to switching some routes to land trade instead or doing >>36186067
Furthermore, the canal makes land trade even more viable

Finally. You are ignoring the cost of the ships on both sides that are destroyed. Which I explicitly said all comes out of our pocket. Since once we conquer them, we own all their ships too (unless they abandon their homes and families and go pirate, yes... in which case we can start a specific campaign against them, and now they have no support while we have both nations)

>>36186135
You have any idea what a new battleship would cost us to make? Either a normal one, or a "talon's ego" sized one that >>36185173
proposed
>I am bad at making names but it's a bit of leap to blame that for somebody calling Bael a bagel.
Fair point. I'm still going to point out that you avoided giving the lunatic who tried to turn himself into that fae thing a name, even though he was the leader of the nation we were fighiting.

>>36186202
>We have 646.6 TBY in max trade taxes in our costal provinces assuming that a blockade lasts four months
we have 431.9TBY in ACTUAL trade taxes in our coastal provinces according to gdoc.

>>36186311
>itria does do a lot of sea trade. But they also do a lot of land trade, and they even export stuff (they export magitech commercial devices, that falls under trade)
They export the civilian magitech by sea mostly though, since most of the nearby powers have their own civilian magitech ability.
>You are further assuming that 100% of this tax revenue would be lost in a sea blockade instead of merely reducing it due to switching some routes to land trade instead or doing >>36186067
I'm also ignoring the ugly 2nd order effect, depressions have started for far less serious reasons, and the problem with switching to smuggling is that smugglers tend not to pay taxes.
>Finally. You are ignoring the cost of the ships on both sides that are destroyed. Which I explicitly said all comes out of our pocket. Since once we conquer them, we own all their ships too
The ability to hold our own doesn't mean we immediatly seek a descive sea battle and seek to destroy their entire fleet. If our conventional fleet has parity they will likley avoid action in fear of someone teleporting undine to our fleet the night before the fight and pasting them. Furthermore, the Guard is the 2nd weakest naval power after us, so even if we absorb their fleets we will need to build more ships ANYWAY. We aren't getting out of building a navy.

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>>36186202
>>36186311
>You are falsely assuming 100% of this trade tax comes from sea trade
To expand on this further. lets compare vitria, taur, and darlesia
both taur and darlesia are landlocked and have 0 sea trade.

>Vitria
>Max Trade Tax: 264.8
>Actual Trade Tax: 264.8

>Darlesia
>Max Trade Tax: 106.2 yr
>Actual Trade Tax: 79.7 yr

>Taur
>Max Trade Tax: 174.2 / yr
>Actual Trade Tax: 130.6 / yr

>>36186404
>we have 431.9TBY in ACTUAL trade taxes in our coastal provinces according to gdoc.
Well yes, but that number will go up sharply as Farun becomes less of a clusterfuck in the year and a half this scenario takes to come into existance.

>>36186450
>They export the civilian magitech by sea mostly though, since most of the nearby powers have their own civilian magitech ability.
Every factory's civilian magitech is different
For example, vitria's manufactures magical space heaters for winter. Other cities manufacture other goods in their civilian factories.

>>36186467
Much of which is actually goods going from the port of Vitria, to Shroopham and Ahm.

I'm just going to bring up purchasing a couple anti-magic grenades, just in case.

>>36186479
Fair enough, I concede this point. However, look at >>36186467 and compare max values then.

>Much of which is actually goods going from the port of Vitria, to Shroopham and Ahm.
Much of the trade that vitria does, is facilitating trade between RSK and Magi League.
With a canal straight to the magi league capital, and a very very short distance to travel by land to a nearby RSK port, it will still be able to perform most of its trade

>>36186450
>I'm also ignoring the ugly 2nd order effect, depressions have started for far less serious reasons, and the problem with switching to smuggling is that smugglers tend not to pay taxes.
I never said anything about switching to smuggling.
Land route is not smuggling.

>The ability to hold our own doesn't mean we immediatly seek a descive sea battle and seek to destroy their entire fleet
It doesn't have to be decisive battles that destroy entire fleets. ANY engagement is money out of our pocket, because ANY destroyed or damaged ship on EITHER side is devastating to us.

>Furthermore, the Guard is the 2nd weakest naval power after us, so even if we absorb their fleets we will need to build more ships ANYWAY. We aren't getting out of building a navy.
True, but the funds that would have gone into building the navy to match theirs could have gone into more troop buildup to better conquer their nation via land.
I also think you are grossly understimating the cost of fleet parity. at a mere 100 to 150 TBY.

>>36186620
>because ANY destroyed or damaged ship on EITHER side is devastating to us.
huh, weird. I meant to say is out of our pocket. obviously it isn't devastating to us.

>>36186529
True, I'm deliberately simplifying things to make a point. I'm basically ignoring the "ripple" effect that a blockade would have on our entire economy, and in return offering some offsetting assumptions in your favor.
>>36186620
Really? We literally need two ships to achieve parity.

>>36186658
They might have more Frigates than us, though I can't imagine why, their coastline just isn't big enough to need lots of smaller ships.

>>36186620
>I also think you are grossly understimating the cost of fleet parity. at a mere 100 to 150 TBY.
Personally, I think we ALREADY have effective parity... if we are willing to have Undine babysit the navy.

>>36186135
>You could potentially replicate that effect with Power, but it wouldn't be via a drum.

Useful. I was hoping something similar if weaker could be enchanted. But having that in general would be great.

A couple of questions.

Talon uses astral power in his flow animation. Does that make it harder for people like Gnome to see the manipulation.

Can infernals see where they are being summoned? So if say mal summoned one in Talons domain could they notice that it was dangerous?

Will we be hearing about the other helldragon anytime?

The anti magic blade can target specifically right? So you could like stab a fae or something with no real risk of damaging your own effects?

How well would Vad do in a fist fight with Talon as he is now?

Balance is versatile. But could it give access to something like Undine's sorcery emulation? Or can astral not do that well not being bound in the concrete world?

If big bro Saareg got a shot into an infernal with sunder would there be a method they could heal that with?

>>36186658
>Really? We literally need two ships to achieve parity.
1. As far as I know you literally made us that figure.
2. Even if they do only have 4 battleships to our 1 (and 3:4 was really parity), a fleet is made out of MORE than just capital ships.

Anyways, it occurs to me that with our contacts, we could warn the merchants ahead of time to start stockpiling goods 6 months or so in advance. We don't explain what or why... just that something might happen to disrupt sea trade for a few months, soon-ish.

>>36186741
That is kind of true in a way. Undine could use the mother of all rituals and wipe things out. Though if we honestly wanted to just get rid of their boats. Get our ship of the line. Stick Taira on it. Then fly by having her smash very boat she sees.

>>36186853
I already quoted it up thread, but I suppose I can repost it:
>A ship-of-the-line with a full crew of skilled sea-mages is pretty much worth a dozen frigates due to the power of defensive magic on a well constructed ship. Vitria has one of them and that ship alone made it a larger naval power than its neighbours. The Guard have a few and the RSK a few dozen. Ships-of-the-line are probably distinguished less by how many decks of guns they have and more by how many ritual stations they have for their mages, how well protected they are etc.
>The Guard have a few
I never said they had four battleships btw, I was assuming 3ish.
>a fleet is made out of MORE than just capital ships.
Yup, and we probably have an equal number of frigates (we absorbed Companion and Faruns navies as well), and with AA gear our frigates will have a serious advantage in a brawl with their counterparts
> We don't explain what or why... just that something might happen to disrupt sea trade for a few months, soon-ish.
Assuming the Merchants are able and willing to do something like that on a vague warning. They probably don't have the money, even if you could buy that many goods ahead of time, and we have enough spare warehouse space (we probably don't).

>>36186741
that is a fair point. But it would mean she isn't available for our land war.

>>36186997
Right, so lets build some ships.

>>36186853
>Anyways, it occurs to me that with our contacts, we could warn the merchants ahead of time to start stockpiling goods 6 months or so in advance
This would be a very bad idea. Our intentions would be made visible easily. Merchants would grumble to each other about the expense of the stockpiling, and not just to their friends within the country.

>>36186990
>Assuming the Merchants are able and willing to do something like that on a vague warning.
You are assuming that merchants will NOT prepare when warned by their emperor that there might be a disruption of trade at a specific date in the future? Really?
> They probably don't have the money, even if you could buy that many goods ahead of time, and we have enough spare warehouse space (we probably don't).
The vitria merchants are ridiculously wealthy. and have hoarded massive amounts of wealth over the years. they most certainly have the money.
Also, its goods they are already trading. all they have to do is keep some of them rather than selling them all. then when blockade happens, they sell of the remaining at higher prices.

>>36187044
It is a fairly vague warning. There could be many causes for it.
That being said, its probably not worth the risk.

>>36186997
Couldn't we literally just get Taira to teleport the damn ship then have her blast everything and go home in like a day? Hell we can even stick Undine on there just to be sure. It's not like she couldn't just port both of them away if something goes wrong.

>>36186658
>I'm basically ignoring the "ripple" effect that a blockade would have on our entire economy, and in return offering some offsetting assumptions in your favor.
I am thinking that those things are not of equal magnitude. And you are grossly underestimating the amount of local trade that goes on. Such as in our own nation, and between us, the magi league, and the RSK.
also, consider the building of the canal and the boon it gives the economy. I don't see us spiraling into a depression. Since the boon of the canal helps counteract the sag of the blockade.
Besides which, the massive damage to darlesia, taur, and termina didn't cause a depression.

>>36187178
It could if we don't fix Farun at least.

>>36187106
We could, actually. if this really becomes an issue, and they try to blockade us. we do that.
Heck, put mal and talon there too. and vad and sala (she can fly).

Or, how about we focus on conquering their coast at the very start of the campaign? their ships have nowhere to dock to gain food and supplies anymore and will rapidly surrender. Assuming we don't catch some in port and capture them that way.

>>36187106
Possibly, A couple of potential pitfalls of that:
1. That would presumably mean we'd destroy all the Guard ships, which means we have an even smaller navy postwar, which means we still have to build a navy.
2. Telporting onto a moving ship is probably pretty tricky, I mean, if it has its position wrong you could show up over the open ocean.
3. We would be Very vulnerable to sudden engagements. If the Guard fleet encountered ours too early, we'd basically have the entire fleet massacred.
4. The Guard is Built on countering powerful magical beings, there navy might be built in a similar fashion.
tdlr: there is no free lunch, we have to build a navy at some point.

>>36187178
>>36187210
We basically Marshall planned both Darlesia and Farun, and both are shadows of what they used to be.

>>36187221
She can teleport up to 50000kg of mass. So depending on the ships size if we really need it out of the way I would suggest wiping out Balkarin. Although this does depend on some things I should ask.

>>36186135
How will the politics with Albanon go over the skip? Will the archmage pull off kicking them out or are the here to stay for now?

This actually reminds me that with Slyph so close we should probably start checking her POP out when we get a shot. The hell dragon may know more.

>>36187277
This is true, Look at the first GDOC sheet and the Last. Taour and Darlesia's wealth got rectconed into the ground.

>>36187277
>1. That would presumably mean we'd destroy all the Guard ships, which means we have an even smaller navy postwar,
yes
>which means we still have to build a navy.
no
>2. Telporting onto a moving ship is probably pretty tricky, I mean, if it has its position wrong you could show up over the open ocean.
I am sure taira can handle this.
>3. We would be Very vulnerable to sudden engagements. If the Guard fleet encountered ours too early, we'd basically have the entire fleet massacred.
So stay at port until we are ready
>4. The Guard is Built on countering powerful magical beings, there navy might be built in a similar fashion.
It is, but that doesn't mean it can handle beings of taira/undine/talon's caliber
>tdlr: there is no free lunch, we have to build a navy at some point.
And that point is AFTER we conquered the guard while avoiding naval conflict for our little war

>>36187357
>This actually reminds me that with Slyph so close we should probably start checking her POP out when we get a shot. The hell dragon may know more.
I really want to get sylph. She is really good at both mass teleportation and mass healing.
And I want to get a full set of the sisters

>>36187277
>2. Telporting onto a moving ship is probably pretty tricky, I mean, if it has its position wrong you could show up over the open ocean.

Not talking about teleporting on a ship. I'm talking about just teleporting the entire ship where they are at. We also know at least that Pharos can use 6 tails to teleport on boats.

We should build up at some point at least though agreed.

>>36187364
>no
...How do you intend to avoid building a navy?
I seriously cannot comprehend your thought process.

>>36187364
We will need a navy for pharos later.

>>36187434
>...How do you intend to avoid building a navy?
from that very same post you quoted
>>36187364
>>tdlr: there is no free lunch, we have to build a navy at some point.
>And that point is AFTER we conquered the guard while avoiding naval conflict for our little war
We spend 0 TBY on building up our navy before the war, instead spending all our funds on building up our land troops.
After the war, we can build up our navy more.
During the war, we keep our own navy close together and close to port, avoiding engagement. Because any losses on EITHER side are losses to us.
If they seem to try to force it, then prioritize conquering their ports with our land troops first, which will be the end of their navy (no port to resupply at, starvation unless they surrender).

I am disagreeing with the false assertion that using taira, undine, and talon would destroy their navy, while simply building up a bunch of capital ships would somehow leave their navy unharmed.
In fact, with taira, undine, and talon we can more easily capture their navy intact. Which is not the case with battle ships which would have to fight conventionally.
Undine can created currents to hold their ship still in one place. Taira ports talon personally on the ship with lynn and gnome and a couple others. and he captures it intact. hopefully without killing the ship's mages eithers.

>>36187448
>We will need a navy for pharos later.
So far, we are not in open war with pharos and are actively trading with them.
And yes, I agree about the later part. I am just arguing that right now, all the budget that could go into building more ships should go into building more land troops.

>>36187432
The six tales are teleporting in visual distance though, which is why they can bring a significant number of troops with them.
>>36187448
And the RSK/Daruvi/Malantine. I seriously doubt that not building a navy will be cheaper in the long run than getting repeatedly blockaded by whichever asshole we are figting now. Also, amphibious mobility opens up a lot of options for fighting.

>We spend 0 TBY on building up our navy before the war, instead spending all our funds on building up our land troops.
False assertion. We have a limited amount of Factory space, once we fund output on our existing military factories, the return on investment will be smaller and smaller. Past a certain point it makes more sense to spend ~100 TBY on our navy then spend that same amount on ~600 MMK.

>>36187573
Yeah now that much I can understand. We have like 22K men right now vs a nation that can field 50K easy. I meant that more as we shouldn't wait to long to get the navy going.

>>36187666
I honestly think the Salary almost costs more then the equipment honestly.

>>36187680
Actually, we have at least 35K once we finish absorbing the remaining Shropham forces

>>36187666
>False assertion. We have a limited amount of Factory space
1. factory expenses make up the bulk of our expenses
2. We actually have some open space in our foundries that can fit more factories that isn't being used due to lack of funds
3. making new foundries and factories will take only a fraction of the year and half we have until the fighting begins.

>>36187768
>Actually, we have at least 35K once we finish absorbing the remaining Shropham forces
If we fully absorb their remains, and their losses were light enough. Hopefully true.
But remember that those 50k are not their full army. That is just what they sent on this expedition and what this specific faction was able to raise. They have more than that.

>>36187768
That is a good point. We do at least have year assuming we take things slow.

>>36187866
I was literally just including the army we never fought, and assuming everything facing the mage guard in the north, and the defenders of the city itself took 100% casualties.

Honestly I think note is a good time to consolidate and attempt to stave off hostilities for awhile.

Talon has a reputation as a warmonger some humanitarian efforts, finds allocated to the populaces needs and wants, and bulking up on defensive structures and a navy would do wonders for Talons reputation. As much as our men are loyal they also need a break and something given back and efforts shown that we're going to protect their land and assets.

>>36187666
>>36187843
Here we go
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/35159278/#p35162616

>Magitech Factories
Civilian Factory: 50TBY and takes 4 weeks. 1 slot.
New Factory (MAA, MMK): 100TBY and takes 4 weeks. 1 slot.
New Factory (2xAA, HMK): 200TBY and 8 weeks. 2 slots.
New Factory (FMK): 250TBY and 8 weeks. 2 slots.

>Foundry Expansion
Nothing to Small (+5 slots): 200TBY and 16 weeks
Small to Medium (+2 slots): 50TBY and 8 weeks
Medium to Large (+3 slots): 150TBY and 16 weeks

So, to build a brand new foundry takes 4 months. Followed by 1 or 2 months to build the factories in it. (they can be built in parallel)
We have ~18 months. So that means half a year to build, and a year of production. (if we actually run out of slots. At the moment we actually have some open slots)

As for operation costs
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/35159278/#p35162871
MMK Factory: 200 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY; 120TBY per year at max for 2400 units
HMK Factory: 50 units every 4 weeks for 20TBY; 240TBY per year at max for 600 units
FMK Factory: 100 units every 4 weeks for 50TBY; 600TBY per year at max for 1200 units
AA Factory: 500 units every 4 weeks for 10TBY; 120TBY at max for 6000 units

>>36187940
What army we didn't fight?
Also, did you take into account the 4000 casualties we took?

>>36188014
>if we actually run out of slots. At the moment we actually have some open slots
the reason for that, btw, is that producing is extremely expensive. We just don't have enough money. Even with deficit spending.

>>36188058
The Army of Sorruy retreated intact to Devon. It alone has 11k troops.

>>36187994
Honestly I rather like the warmonger rep. It mostly keeps people thinking him a warlord and underestimating him. Though I think we are planning on staying out of war for at least a year. I would prefer a year and a half honestly.

>>36188014
This reminds me we need to build more factories. Right now we are kind of spread out so it may be a good idea when we restore order to place a factory near Termina. Because right now there is a good chunk of space where we don't have any. It also may prove useful to get more redundancy since right now if we lose one factory we lose production.

>>36188085
It's honestly more the building of the factory that is expensive along with feeding the men. Actually producing the armor is pretty inexpensive all in all.

>>36188085
Speaking of which, how productive were the civilian factories? We might want to look at building more of them ASAP in order to maximize the amount of time we benefit from them.

>>36188192
The main issue is placement. Termina itself is right on the border of the MG, and the other cities are on the water, and thus vulnerable to raids by the MG navy. Of course, the best course of action to resolve this whole navy threat is to have Silvian concentrate her partisans geographically on Balkerian.

Also going to mention something. When we get More POPs we should start thinking about building forts around them and stocking them with defenses.

As we are right now the only thing stopping someone from dropping gnome down two levels is not knowing where our POP is. I was thinking this is a pretty useful role for a vampire Garrison. Because they can't use sorcery they can't steal it away and it's pretty hard to disguise yourself as one long enough to get to the core passed whatever defenses you have.

>>36188248
that really depends on what we are producing
AA produces 6000 units a year for 120 TBY
FMK produces 1200 units a year for 600 TBY
Meanwhile the factories are 200 for AA and 250 for FMK. and take 2 months (assuming we have open foundry space. otherwise we need to upgrade or build one first. At the moment we do have some open space due to lack of funds)

>>36188311
>As we are right now the only thing stopping someone from dropping gnome down two levels is not knowing where our POP is.
That, and also having to brave the monsters inside.
I should also note that actually finding pops is normally not easy. Alyce didn't even know she had one under her city. The only reason we can track them down is back gnome knows where some are, and undine can commune with the source to find the 7 attached to it.
Without access to our source, most people cannot tack down its location. Building a fort on it would reveal it. And if someone did do that to gnome, its within our territory and we can rapidly respond with both an army and hero units to take them out.

>>36188298
Yeah Mostly I"m thinking about suplly lines. With everything so far back it may be a good diea to start building up our factories at home and getting them nice and air tight to avoid the RSK factory sabotage issue. While building a new one in say Darfus. That way we have two in the upper areas later on so we won't have to keep a chain like we have now up as we go upwards. Though we do have Shropham's factory but I'm not sure what really is in it other then the Pharos spears.

>>36188311
>Because they can't use sorcery they can't steal it
Vampires do use sorcery. they lose access to the sorceries of their previous race, and instead get access to blood and shadow vampiric sorceries.
Their entire body runs on sorcery and that is why they must drink blood (its use as a universal catalyst)

>>36188410
I would rather ship our gear a longer distance than build our factories on the border which increases risk of sabotage and theft.

>>36188410
Speakin of supply lines, we need to go about expanding our support arm soon. This will minimize losses and increase morale.

>>36188377
Yeah the problem with that line of thought is that what happens when say we get into it with an old mage who does remember where it is? Now we lost a POP and he has had a couple of months to prepare as many traps and whatever else he wants there.

Some of them are naturally defensible. But I think it would be a good idea to get some secret force or Garrison in the middle of no where with the internals protected by monsters/Patterns/God knows what else.

Make it something so we have a heads up if something goes wrong here. Because it would really suck to be in the middle of a siege then lose all the god powers. Because someone did a lot of research.

>>36188416
They use their own at least. They can't use any advanced ones though. Instead they get a weaker kind that is more specialized and varied.

>>36188471
Talking more later on to be honest. We will want one in that area just to keep the empire from having to rely on certain areas. What we mostly need is to to build each one up so we don't have the issue where sabotage is easy.

>>36188536
>Yeah the problem with that line of thought is that what happens when say we get into it with an old mage who does remember where it is? Now we lost a POP and he has had a couple of months to prepare as many traps and whatever else he wants there.
Why would it take us months to respond? Only heroes can go into a pop, its too dangerous for anyone else. So we take taira and teleport heroes there, in several hops if need be. it will take us 2-3 days to reach any pop in our empire at our current size.
Also, the pop under alyce's home had traps made by a crazy old mage over decades. we handled that alright.

And this is extremely esoteric knowledge here. Its not just age, but they have to also have specifically had reason to study this.
I think its more the non humans that are more a concern here. Angels, fae, old foxes, ancient dragons.

Also, how would building a fort on top of it do anything at all to stop such an old mage? He is just going to avoid fighting them and go straight for the pop. because remember, no normal troops can get anywhere near it due to the extreme magic radiation and the monsters it spawns.

>>36188603
>They use their own at least. They can't use any advanced ones though. Instead they get a weaker kind that is more specialized and varied.
Do you remember darius that shadow mage vampire?
The sources are the sources of ALL magic. not just the source of human sorcery. And pops are how the sources distribute that magic.

>>36188603
>Talking more later on to be honest. We will want one in that area just to keep the empire from having to rely on certain areas. What we mostly need is to to build each one up so we don't have the issue where sabotage is easy.
if you mean after we conquer the mage guard, than sure.

Oh hey, I bet we captured some magitech factories here in shropham

>>36188656
He doesn't need to take it Immediately. He can literally just chill out next to the thing building whatever he wants. Until he is ready to take it.

Though fort maybe the wrong word. I mostly want some elite specialized men who live fortified nearby and is on the look out. If they are wiped out they should get a message in and then let Talon finish the problem. If no report comes then we know something is wrong.

Building a literal fort would not quite be what I had in mind. I mostly just don't want to rely only on the foes lack of knowledge when it comes to POPs as a defense. When we start getting 3-4 POPs bound we should start defending them more thoroughly.

>>36188720
We did.

>>36188695
Yeah he was Specialized. Though we really should ask now that I think on it if vampires can connect a POP to themselves. I do remember that they lose any sorcery they have so the real question is if their type allows easy bindings like Evocation does.

>>36188863
Another thing I was thinking we should do is find a mage who can do Constructions. Mal already admitted he can't do them well given how he thinks.

>>36188863
Ok, that makes sense, he could make traps and such first. Although he would need to bring quite a lot of supplies, and it would be quite dangerous there
Ok, in that case its fine. stationing a troop there to report to us makes more sense than a fort.
Although soldiers do talk and spies can end up using that to locate the places.

Also, its quite a large area to cover. because you don't need to enter at one spot.
The tunnels reach far and wide. For ahm its city sized with many entrances (although most are sealed)
And the troop can't really reach the inside as well.

idea, what if instead of troops, its spies? we got a bunch of spies, have some spend some time watching over areas of interest with orders to notify us of people sneaking in.

Then again, mal was working on finding uses for the crystals. if he does, we can't expect to personally go diving there for every haul.
So maybe a fort is a good idea after all. Sure it gives away its location, but allows us to exploit the pop via sending expeditions down there to mine for exotics it produces, eg crystals

>>36186135
If water elementals are deadly in naval combat, are there any elementals that have a reputation as specializing in that sort of thing?

>>36189040
Personally I kind of view it as situational. Ahm will do fine without anything. It's more the risk that the more we get the more others can target. Some might work getter with just patrols looking around the area.

On the other hand some might work best with Fort with an entire knight order living inside who's only role is defending the internals on their life. Without really knowing what they are guarding other then the Imperator built the order just to do that. Depends on the terrain and who it is bound too.

Another dangerous possibility is sending 2-3 high class mages then taking as many as you know at the same time to cause a level drop during a war. Right now it's not all that risky. Ahm has the archmage who we can get to handle that and Undines is next to Harrowmont. But when we say get one in the mage guard and in the RSK there is a bigger risk of them getting taken in the middle of a war.

>>36189275
>Situational
that is actually an excellent point

>Another dangerous possibility is sending 2-3 high class mages then taking as many as you know at the same time to cause a level drop during a war
that is a two edged sword though. Anyone who does that leaves 2-3 combat magisters extremely vulnerable deep in enemy territory. and they need to be combat magisters or archmages to handle it.
Moreover, the only way for them to sever us is to claim it for themselves. and once claimed, we can track them down, once we get to the pop ourselves we can use it to follow the thread from it to the current owner, hunt them down and kill/capture them. Significantly weakening the enemy by denying them their CMs.
That is assuming the CMs survive the endeavor in the first place, pops are dangerous. And after all that, their big gamble results in a temporary -2 levels on gnome or -1 level on undine.
Which isn't world ending since we have quite a large group of hero units at the moment to conquer their nation with.

Also just to mention it. With the timeskip the foxs should have their tail colors known. So we should get an idea if Harrowmont has any effects on a fox raised there.

>>36189421
True. I"m honestly mostly thinking in the long term here when we have something like 4 POPs bound and Talon with God powers.

At that point if it's a war say targeting 2-3 POPs with a high class mage could cause a lot of damage. Because now Talon has to personally go to each one again in a war and if he doesn't then Gnome just went to level 1 or has a week or two before she desummons and undine is weaker.

It could also risk dropping any of Talon bound source effects. Since we know some of them can leave the domain if you know how.

So I say it's best to plan ahead for a case like this because in say 100 years of nation ruling this may happen.

>>36189586
A single mage simultanously taking 2-3 pops is a stretch. It would be a massive investment on their part
Also, any such mages doing that are unavailable to support their army. So we would get a situational choice, do we leave the front lines to reclaim the pops. Or do we take advantage of all those missing CMs/archmages and finish off the enemy's army. Based on our analysis on which was more weakened by it, us or them.

And that requires them to know a lot about pops, our use of them, etc.

>>36189709
>It would be a massive investment on their part
by that i mean. 2-4 combat magisters per pop

Another thing I'll note we should think about. Once we take the Guard we will have a front with Ember. Meaning we will have to think about keeping a good sized force there to keep Breckenthorough out of Talons Parlor.

>>36189709
Yeah. Got to remember though Talon expects to rule for at least a couple hundred years. So it's best to think "What is the worst situations that could happen in a few hundred years?" Then plan on the bellcurve hitting the far side at least once.

It's not something we really have to work on right now. But is something we should work on once we start taking more POPs later on.

>>36189827
Ok, fair enough. But I expect we will conquer this continent long before that.

Although, I guess I can see the major powers on this continent pulling such a stunt.

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So I can't help too much with the navy stuff. I haven't looked at costs so I won't say anything on that.

The main thing is that a naval blockade of Vitria would hurt a fair bit, especially once the canal is up - a lot of the extra trade from the canal is due to Ahmnian traders moving along the canal to ship elsewhere instead of going by land.

>>36189230
There's probably a few pure water elementals that do. Undine's only master was in a landlocked nation so she didn't get the chance.

>>36186843
>Talon uses astral power in his flow animation. Does that make it harder for people like Gnome to see the manipulation.
No. It just makes it harder for them to counter it and theirs isn't as effective.

>Can infernals see where they are being summoned? So if say mal summoned one in Talons domain could they notice that it was dangerous?
They know where they're being summoned, the summoner and can visually see the location they're being summoned to.

>Will we be hearing about the other helldragon anytime?
He's a bit of a dick. I'm sure he'll crop up from time to time.

>The anti magic blade can target specifically right? So you could like stab a fae or something with no real risk of damaging your own effects?
More or less. It's effectively sentient so is easily controlled that way.

>How well would Vad do in a fist fight with Talon as he is now?
He's lost his edge, between Talon's improved skills and flow animation.

>Balance is versatile. But could it give access to something like Undine's sorcery emulation? Or can astral not do that well not being bound in the concrete world?
You'd never be able to achieve that level of versatility, though you could manage a more generalised astral ability set with time and practice (instead of just one power). The angels did this, for instance.

>continued

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>>36186843
>If big bro Saareg got a shot into an infernal with sunder would there be a method they could heal that with?
>big bro
Haha.

Infernals can cheat. Instead of regenerating, they could simply create the part anew. It's more costly than regeneration and not all of them could do it quickly enough to matter. Also, there's a particular state where they can't do this.

>>36187358
That was because I was basing each city's wealth purely off population, not accounting for differences between cities.

>>36187357
>How will the politics with Albanon go over the skip?
They'll probably just go real quiet. They lost a lot of military and their grand magisters lost a lot of face in being allied with Shropham.

>>36189453
Vad's kids' tail colours are odd variations of the silver and gold variants, not sure of the precise physical appearance yet. Nobody really knows why yet.

>>36190577
Did any of the Fluffy tails born near Undine's POP have odd tails?
>>36190478
>The main thing is that a naval blockade of Vitria would hurt a fair bit, especially once the canal is up - a lot of the extra trade from the canal is due to Ahmnian traders moving along the canal to ship elsewhere instead of going by land.
Also, Sarah would be unhappy.
>There's probably a few pure water elementals that do. Undine's only master was in a landlocked nation so she didn't get the chance.
Might want to decide if any of them are currently working for a major power. That would change the balance of power a bit.

I assume a unit of water elementals could be quite capable in a naval engagement.

>>36190478
>>The anti magic blade can target specifically right? So you could like stab a fae or something with no real risk of damaging your own effects?
>More or less. It's effectively sentient so is easily controlled that way.
ohohoho
its a fae that has been convinced it must assume the form of a blade. its countering all types of magic by just using its own astral power. its fae domain is focused heavily on being a blade and on nullifying magic.

>>36190708
>Did any of the Fluffy tails born near Undine's POP have odd tails?
oh hey, right... there was mention of black tailed foxes having special talnts in the discussion of sropham sorcery countering. implying that different colored tails give different power sets...

>>36190577
Will Laryya working for us speed up the Canal construction?

>>36190577
>Vad's kids' tail colours are odd variations of the silver and gold variants, not sure of the precise physical appearance yet. Nobody really knows why yet.
being carried to term near an active source? and an active talon?

>>36190870
is Laryya even alive? last time we saw here we had some unfortunate implications and allusions to what gnome is doing to her.

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>>36190814
No, not really. The Anti-Magic Blade is just one of the three Living Steel blades, which are all just magical artefacts of an absurd level of power. The AMB was made by mages in the Golden Age and is argubly the greatest feat of mages, period.

>>36190843
Normal tails (red, brown, blonde etc) - ordinary foxes.

Gold and silver tails - typically stronger than the average fox, more talented and grow more tails on average. Relatively rare, especially gold foxes. No known way to cultivate them.

White tails - foxes tend to be stronger physically and suited to slightly esoteric uses of their tails. Cultivated by high altitude environments.

Black tails - tend to be superior at disruption magic, which excels at stopping Pharos geomancers and other foxes. Very, very rare in Pharos (to the extent of being considered evil initially) but 90% of foxes born in Gauron are black-tailled (with the balance being white).

>>36190890
I meant that nobody knows what the tails mean.

>>36190870
She'll be dealt with when you resume.

>>36190914
Gnome probably just hit her a few times. She wasn't going to kill her or anything.

>>36190577
>Vad's kids' tail colours are odd variations of the silver and gold variants, not sure of the precise physical appearance yet. Nobody really knows why yet.

Ohhoho. Need to bug Taira about this for laughs. Though thinking about how they had to be created it kind of makes sense that they have specifications like this. Like how black tails are great at spiritual techniques they would need to be good at to survive outside of Pharos easy.

>>36190577
A thing I was wondering. At what level of flow maniupatlion would Alyce start getting annoyed?

>>36190978
>I meant that nobody knows what the tails mean.
Oh, I see.
although that would probably also mean nobody knows how to cultivate them since they are new and unique. And are variants of variants which are unknown method of cultivation
>Relatively rare, especially gold foxes. No known way to cultivate them.

>Gnome probably just hit her a few times. She wasn't going to kill her or anything.
i feel bad for her.

>>36191083
>Like how black tails are great at spiritual techniques they would need to be good at to survive outside of Pharos easy.
But black tails were extremely important in pharos. You heard the fluffy general, without the black tails, the foxes would have been exterminated by the pharosian human sorcerers

>>36190978
Do we have anyone capable of supporting Laryya properly? I mean, we are rather short on powerful mages

>>36190978
>Normal tails (red, brown, blonde etc) - ordinary foxes.
>Gold and silver tails - typically stronger than the average fox, more talented and grow more tails on average. Relatively rare, especially gold foxes. No known way to cultivate them.
I am now imagining a "normal" tailed fox going super saijin due to pushing himself hard to excel. His tails turning from red to gold.

>>36191149
there is the summoner's tower in vitria which might have an interested candidate which will strike her fancy. or she might know someone from shropham from the mages whom we decide were not complicit and spare the life of.

>>36190978
>The Anti-Magic Blade is just one of the three Living Steel blades

I swear each time I hear about this I imagine Talon using it on a fae and just being like "Your world? Hah." Shanking it and moonwalking out of his realm.

Though when you say strange variations of silver and gold. Do you mean like deeper hues or something like polka dots out there?

Also just as a random question but if Kushan would have saw the anti-magic blade would he have been impressed? And also we have heard he was Genocidal against non-humans but just to ask would he have considered someone like Talon non-human?

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>>36191143
Actually, he was implying the opposite. Black tails were almost unheard of prior to persistent contact with Gauron within the last couple of centuries. He was trying to say that if Pharosian geomancers could use the sort of power witnessed (which only a powerful black-tailed fox could stop) then the foxes would have never thrived in Pharos because they didn't have black foxes.

>>36191083
>At what level of flow maniupatlion would Alyce start getting annoyed?
Not sure what you mean.

>>36191149
She's about equal to a level 3 Gnome so you can probably give her to a powerful magister or grand magister.

>>36191143
Black tails are mostly disruption magic inclined and rare. So it makes sense if you are creating a race to build something like that if they are in an environment you don't expect. That way any odd magics can be disrupted easier.

>>36191298
>Not sure what you mean.

Mostly thinking about what level it would take to start giving her issues with casting magic at you. She has a lot of magic power so I"m trying to get a good gauge on what would happen if say prime Gnome tried to manipulate her magic flow.

>>36191298
>She's about equal to a level 3 Gnome so you can probably give her to a powerful magister or grand magister.
What about Archmagister Holland? Would she be powerful enough?

>>36191298
>She's about equal to a level 3 Gnome so you can probably give her to a powerful magister or grand magister.

So whatever random magister heading up an IEC team we have lying around?

>>36191436
Well, there are 5 named mages in our entire empire, and Sarah isn't powerful enough yet, and is training to be a combat magister.

>>36191519
We do have a decent number of mages now honestly. We did get Shropham's towers and the mage league is giving an influx.

So it shouldn't be too hard to find a decently powerful mage who can use her. Though I"m hoping we find ourselves a skilled enchanter or someone who works with constructs soon. Because we only have one Mal and he needs to work more on summoning.

>>36191628
Its hard to tell how many mages we have since its been forever since that number got updated.

>>36191378
>What about Archmagister Holland?
who?

>>36191712
I know we got at least 100 battlemages due to Alyce streamlining transfers.

>>36191758
>He doesn't remember the moe moe 40 year old waifu that Finn saved.

>>36191758
Archmagister Finn rescued.

>>36191758
One of the two named female mages talon isn't sleeping with.

From the last thread
>Random question, but what /are/ the different forms/specialties of magic in universe?

>Like yeah okay so monks and foxes use astral, mks use a form of reinforcement, elementals use their elemental stuff, nightwalkers are innately faster and stronger, day walkers have unique abilities plus shadow magic and blood regen, Fae fuck with the world, pharosian sorcery is some kind if unknown bullshit, the elves have their racial subtypes via tattoos, merce is...whatever she is, and then there's the different mage tower specialists? Like enchanting, summoning (patterns vs summons??) I think the mage PC was a rare form of transmuter? And presumably evokers are another subtype, but I'm sure there're many more, we just don't know.

I get some of that is covered in the bins, but aspir said he'd go more in depth after the thread

>>36191795
>>36191802
thank you.

>>36191858
>One of the two named female mages talon isn't sleeping with.
oh! that one!
joking, joking

>>36191878
I"m pretty sure nightwalkers don't even have magic. They are just stronger.

Daywalkers Unique powers are based around their blood and shadow magig I think.

Elves have differing caste magic. Merce is a Tansmuter from a elf caste of them. Then there is the craftsmen magic and the leader caste magic.

Fae are astral.

Mage PC was something Bullshit or just Bullshit strong at Transmutation magic.

Evokers just use another magic type telling the world what to do.

And infernals have some soul shit going on where they are so grounded in reality they can do crazy things with magic.

There is also dragon magic and dwarfven Transmutation.

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>>36191878
Firstly, there's strictly only two types of magic: astral power and sorcery. Spiritual technically sits separate because although it uses astral power it doesn't share most of the attributes of it.

Astral power is largely just used in one way - bending reality using the concepts and thoughts of the user. The more power and the stronger the user's vision of those concepts, the better they are it. Because angels and Fae perceive the world differently, their powers are completely different but the nature of the magic is the same.

Spiritualism is just a way of using astral power without blowing up. It's very rigid and requires a lot of practice. Foxes and monks use it the same way, they even help each other. The difference is that the arrays the foxes use are drawn using their tails and are more complicated than those the monks draw using the bodies (like those gestures Marek was doing). Also, their histories and training are different so the rigid techniques they learn differ (like how martial arts differ based on how, when, where and why they were created). The Wardens use a different form of spiritualism that the angels created based on their standardised form of spellcasting (the Angelic Arts), so it differs a bit thanks to being created by an astral race.

So, astral and spiritual are just two forms of magic, overall.

>sorcery next, as it's big and complicated

>>36192103
>The Wardens use a different form of spiritualism that the angels created based on their standardised form of spellcasting (the Angelic Arts), so it differs a bit thanks to being created by an astral race.
Is that why the Warden's seem to have a high "floor" and a low "ceiling" for their abilities. That is, all wardens seem to be pretty capable (just look at their statline), but you've implied that the most powerful wardens aren't really anything to write home about.

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>>36192103
Sorcery is what most people think of as magic. It's the most versatile and can range in power a lot - the strongest sorcerous beings are a match for the strongest astral beings, but the weakest astral beings are leagues above most sorcerous beings and sorcerors. Sorcery breaks down into evocation and transmutation (check out the lorebin for that breakdown).

Evocation is basically human-only power. It is what is used by human mages (that aren't transmuters) and knights should they learn formally (improvised magic, like what Felix uses and many other knights, is actually crude transmutation). No other race can evocate, or if they can, they haven't had their own Kushan to show them how. Note that evocation can emulate transmutation in the hands of a powerful mage (like Alyce).

The elves, dwarves and dragons use transmutation. The way they've learnt to use it is different, for the same reason spiritual techniques vary (transmutation is difficult and the powers of the three races vary - a dragon has more magical power than an elf or dwarf), but all transmutation is the same deep down.

Many sorcerous beings, such as nightwalkers and daywalkers, don't so much as use sorcery as their nature just gives them additional powers. You could probably say that this sort of intrinsic magic is unique to each race that has it.

Technically, infernals fall into the above category (or more accuractely, vampires fall into the same category as infernals) but as a divine race it's probably better to say they have their own magic due to their own peculiarities. They still use sorcery but they don't easily fall into the categories of transmutation or evocation.

So yeah, sorcery is kind of all over the place. This is because astral is universal but sorcery is heavily localised, to speak a bit to the meta. Divine races should make it clear that there's other worlds out there, so this means that astral energy is the same in every world but sorcerous energy is different.

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>>36192259
Pretty much. The ability for Wardens to use the Arts is pretty limited, simply because humans lack the affinity with the concepts behind them (they're not angels, after all, and angels are very inhuman in their outlook). With that said, it does offer a fair bit of power and has very specific uses, particularly against mages and infernals.

>>36192363
I see. I wonder if its gradually mutating and drifting away from its original form now that all the angels are gone. I mean, I assume that the wardens would eventually invent a few new tricks over the centuries.
...Also, are the Wardens the only ones to use this magic, and what is their relationship with the Disciples of Theros?

>>36192328
> the strongest sorcerous beings are a match for the strongest astral beings, but the weakest astral beings are leagues above most sorcerous beings and sorcerors.

Kind of interesting when you think on it. That basically means in general it's better to have astral beings as one of your frontline troops. Because even at the weakest they have a one up on most others.

>So yeah, sorcery is kind of all over the place. This is because astral is universal but sorcery is heavily localised

Does that mean that your sorcery can stop working if you are out of the world?

>>36192363
How capable would a top tier Warden be?
Feel free to measure them in fluffy tails

>>36192535
>. That basically means in general it's better to have astral beings as one of your frontline troops.
Assuming you can find them. They aren't exactly common.

>>36192560
There is a couple thousand on the other side of the Continent.

>>36192656
Right, and there are several hundred million sorcerous beings hanging around.

>>36192363
I was wondering, but are there any other locations besides Garoun and Pharos? I'm starting to think that this planet is much smaller than Earth

>>36192684
This does make me wonder if the Lords have to use the uplifting ritual personally. I mean there has to be a reason they haven't turned half their population into god-knights.

>>36192751
Resources. Their society revolves around their god-knights living the good life. That limits the number you make before the model starts breaking down.
I'm personally wondering if all of the gods are god-knights, or if there are other "models" for other uses.

>>36192751
It probably is honestly. Gauron is about double the size of europe not counting the barrier. No idea how big Pharos is or the range.

>>36192843
We know they have administrator astral adapts. Just not if they are specifically designed as such.

>>36192328
>So yeah, sorcery is kind of all over the place. This is because astral is universal but sorcery is heavily localised

This honestly makes the world stones/Source kind of interesting as well. Given it gives such an absurd boost and astral power. If it really is the way which magic energy enters the world then that is a little insane.

>>36192911
They probably have Navy Astral Adapts as well. The casualty rate is probably very low since they're almost never used. The head of that is probably quite formidable.
>>36192878
What I honestly find the strangest is that people only travel between continents from one direction, there is apparently nothing to the west of Vitria.

>>36192363
I guessing you don't have one made yet, but how soon are we going to see a world map or latest a map of Pharos?

>>36192560
We did, they are called fluffy tails and we got them.

>>36193440
right, spiritualists aren't asteral beings, so that bit about even the weakest of them being really strong is wrong. There are plenty of weak monks for example

>>36193473
oh, right. oops.
although fluffy tails are pretty strong

So, I was thinking how much and what we are going to be telling our generals. And population.
Also, with raphael here doing the clean up, will we actually have anyone left to hand over to sylvian.

>>36194889
Well, we can hand over the corpses of the transforming guy and other high ranking Shrophamian mages. I'm more willing to havens over political leaders than living research specialists, though I might make an exception for anyone working on something extraordinarily unethical.

>>36195021
>Well, we can hand over the corpses of the transforming guy
I think it has been thoroughly destroyed. like the rock monster. If bael didn't do it, there is a good chance raphael would want to.

>high ranking Shrophamian mages
just because they are high ranking doesn't mean they were in on it.

> I'm more willing to havens over political leaders than living research specialists, though I might make an exception for anyone working on something extraordinarily unethical.
As a magocracy, their leaders are their greatest mages. So the political leaders are also the ones most useful to keep.
I would also like to hand over politicos and keep the actual researchers, barring ones doing really unethical stuff.
but that is kinda wishful thinking.

>>36194889
is
>They were researching the same horrific and universally banned magics that created the wastes. to both create weapons and attempt personal enhancement
>The weapons were spears and drums... but they reacted to the magics thrown about to spontaneously create a horrific magic eating monster that killed indiscriminately.
>That thing was so terrifying the observing soldiers immediately declared a truce.
>As for the personal empowerment attempt... they became gibbering mindless monstrosities that had to be put down.
>Some things are banned for a reason, and should not be trifled with
so... too much information for a public statement?

I am thinking maybe. People are going to ask questions, and there will probably be rumors from those who saw the magic eating beast. and wondering what knocked out talon.
But on the other hand, we know the monks and the god knights prefer total secrecy on this.
Maybe just cut out any info about the ascention attempt, since the only witnesses to that are talon, mal, bael, and marek. And only make a statement about the monster golem thingie?

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>>36191256
>Though when you say strange variations of silver and gold. Do you mean like deeper hues or something like polka dots out there?
Still trying to think of the exact physical variations.

>Also just as a random question but if Kushan would have saw the anti-magic blade would he have been impressed?
Extremely impressed. Magic became a research pursuit because that's what he designed it to be - much of the mage tower structure and politics of mages were created by him.

>just to ask would he have considered someone like Talon non-human?
No. I'm not sure if I can detail the reasons without being too spoilery but it relates to the fact Kushan supposedly did a lot of research into souls and their usage with sorcery.

>>36191346
Oh. Alyce is too good to be easily stopped with the disruption effects of flow manipulation/animation. It's a subpar method of disruption (compared to spells) and she's very talented at channelling.

>>36192538
Extremely effective at killing mages and infernals. Somewhat effective against Fae (spiritual techniques can restrain astral beings, even if they can't really hurt them). Otherwise he's just a powerful knight, a step above Felix (who was the best of your normal knights).

Probably around 6 on the fluffy tail scale in terms of mage killing (around Vad's level) but a mere 4.5 to 5 otherwise. For reference, most magisters and knight masters fall around 4.

>>36192717
It is smaller than Earth. There were four continents, just like there were four factions in the Emergence/Cataclysm.

>>36193324
That's a pretty low priority overall. I'll try to make sure Pharos has more islands and maybe throw a few smaller ones in the ocean between the continents.

>>36198593
>Extremely impressed. Magic became a research pursuit because that's what he designed it to be - much of the mage tower structure and politics of mages were created by him.
really now?
So he is at least somewhat responsible for dickass wizards with no sense of right and wrong?
the question is, did he intend it that way

>>36194889
Not much reason to tell much to be honest. Just have Raphael fix the joint up. Tell the population that some of the mage towers there was experimenting with dangerous Juju that we got rid of. No need for anything more.

>>36198593

would it possible for Vads kids to have different coloured tails? say mostly silver but one or two gold as they gain their new tails? or would it just be patterns, such as stripes, shapes or fading from silver to gold...

>>36200224
I'd rather it be some kind of moving motif. Like...a bet of hot coals in a campfire, every coal is radiant, but depending on ash buildup, current airflow and a few other things the frequency of visible light radiated by a given coal can be stable or rapidly cycling between a few hues. I think that would be kind of cool, individual hairs flickering, especially if the effect accelerates with magic use or heightened emotional states. But even if not, I'd still prefer Vad's kits not end up looking like a patchy.

>>36201032
I was kind of hoping for opalescent myself, but I guess Vad, Nate and the source are too strong and Harrowmont isn't at high enough altitude for that to happen.