You could buy food from another plane (such as Drache) – powerful wizards are charging the nobles of Dornmer exorbitant fees to keep a supply of food coming in from other places, you could probably get it a lot cheaper.

With your powers, and Isla’s help you might be able to change the weather magically.

You could pray for help from Velya, or you could try something else.

>Buy food from Drache
>Use magic to change weather
>Pray to Velya
>Other (what?)

There’s also the rest of the Kingdom to think of:

>Focus on my own Barony
>Try and help the entire Kingdom

>>36221247
>Use magic to change weather
>Try and help the entire Kingdom

Just enough to give things a push. Don't want to cause a backlash.

>>36221247
>Use magic to change weather
>Pray to Velya

>Try and help the entire Kingdom

>>36221300
samefag

/s

>spam sanctuary across the realm and try to help the entire kingdom

Isn't that what sanctuary is for?

>>36221399
Sounds fine to me

>>36221399
Doesn't work, they're each only 100ft across, we can only have 27 sanctuaries active at a time, and doing that would leave us with no Divine Energy.

>>36221247
>Buy food from Drache

>>36221247
Can we open a lasting gate to Drache? Make it a new trade route, which right now would bring in relatively cheap food, but will boost our economy later.

Unless semi-permanently breaching the boundary between worlds is illegal or something.

>>36221487
Permanent planar portals are a thing, we've discovered one to that other plane afterall.

>>36221487
In order to make a lasting Gate, we'd need to use Permanency, which costs XP.

Also, a permanent breach between dimensions seems like it could be risky, we should inquire with the Mages guild beforehand.

>>36221502
I don't think a permanent gate is the best way to do it. A sort of cross-planar teleportation ring that opens on command seems safer to me. We have a example for it too.

You’re not abandoning the kingdom, you’re going to help as many people as you can. But before you do, talking to Velya is a good idea.

You try to talking to her as you walk along the battlements of your kep, your powers protecting you from the morning cold and the biting chill of the wind.

“My Lady may I ask your advice?” You say

“Of course my Saint” comes the swift reply.

“Winter” you explain “Refuses to give way to spring, I am preparing to try and shift the weather magically, but I don’t know what consequences this will have, what do you advise?”

“The weather” says your Goddess “Is a result of a weapon of the Lords of Life, called the Killing Frost – it is a malevolent elemental of cold and ice that seeks to bring about eternal winter. For now its grip will fade in a month, but each year it will be able to lengthen winter a little more. Vast mountains of ice will build, and then begin to move, wiping away all in its path.”

“How do I get rid of it?” you ask

“It will reside in the coldest place it can find” says Velya “though its exact location is obscured even from my sight.”

“Will my sanctuary protect against the cold?” you ask.

“Of course” she says “But you will need to find some way to make it cover more ground, or perhaps create a lot of items that project it.”

>Ask Velya more questions (what?)
>Start making sanctuary items
>This problem will resolve in a month, no need for action
>Use magic to alter the weather
>Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal
>I guess I need to find the Killing Frost
>Other action (what?)

Anything except asking questions ends the conversation. Sanctuary write-in from previous vote discounted as not able to cover enough area.

>>36221247
>Use magic to change weather
>Buy enough food to show we can get it cheep and could flood the market if we have to

>>36221523
>Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal
>I guess I need to find the Killing Frost, but not this year

>>36221487
There are a significant number of demons and demon-blooded in Drache, most of the government is still run by demons, it's fairly pro-demon.

The Kingdom of Dornmer kinda hates demons, the Church of Konig really, really hate demons.

Not sure the king would allow such a thing, the church would definitely be opposed, regular people might dislike it a lot and it might make the people that call Sireyi a false Saint feel justified if we open a portal to a plane inhabited by demons.

>>36221516
If you mean the thing that originally took us to Drache, that was made by the Lords of Life a long, long time ago. We can't make those and that portal is extremely far away.

>>36221523
>Use magic to alter the weather
>I guess I need to find the Killing Frost

>>36221545
No I mean the thing we discovered recently near Ebbys lair.
And all the things you mentioned is why I consider a not-permanent planar connection the better choice. We can just plane shift the caravanes.

>>36221523
>Start making sanctuary items
>Use magic to alter the weather
>Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal
>I guess I need to find the Killing Frost

>>36221545
>Sireyi a false Saint feel justified if we open a portal to a plane inhabited by demons.
Its gonna happen anyway once we bring a large amount of Succubutt into the plane.
Even if just for a short time.

>>36221561
>No I mean the thing we discovered recently near Ebbys lair.
We have no method of reproducing that currently, we don't know anything about how it works, and we destroyed the only known instance of it, preventing study and possible replication.

>>36221523
>>36221541
This plus kill frost guy. Find out if we have anything he might be weak against.

>>36221523
>Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal

>>36221573
>We have no method of reproducing that currently
We have no idea if we have the means for that, because we haven't tried, the point was we have a example for that sort of thing working without causing horrible disruptions to the planes, in difference to a permanent breach.

>>36221584
I'm quoting myself so don't let this samefag.

>>36221523
>Use magic to alter the weather
>Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal
>I guess I need to find the Killing Frost

>>36221602
I highly doubt we can create such a portal at this point in time.

It's possible, we know it's possible, but we have no way of doing that currently and don't know how it was done in the first place.

Could we get the Mage guild or royal Mages to help on anything like the food thing or the weather?

>>36221640
>I highly doubt we can create such a portal at this point in time.
We can
>create Gates
>create Teleportation rings
>have experience with mas plane shifting
>have seen two examples of such gates
>have several massive information stores on highly advanced magic
>can craft magic items
Why wouldn't we be able to make something like that? Its basically like a teleportation ring, just using plane shift.

>>36221640
>>36221672
BTFO
T
F
O

>>36221643
The Royal Mages are already helping the Kingdom as a whole, I'm assuming your own mages will be helping you in whatever you do.

>>36221683
Just to settle this.
Could we make a plane shift ring like we've seen in that cave?

>>36221672
Because combining two different spells without proper experimentation definitely won't rip a giant hole in both dimensions and cause another apocalypse.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that in order for us to do such a thing, we'd need to experiment and figure out how to replicate that effect, which could take anywhere from weeks to months.

In case you forgot, we're currently preparing enchanted items for our journey into Hell, we can't spare that kind of time right now.

>>36221706
Yes, you could, but it would take some experimentation and error to get it right.

You could use deific power to force a success on the first attempt of course.

>>36221708
>we'd need to experiment and figure out how to replicate that effect, which could take anywhere from weeks to months
>have several massive information stores on highly advanced magic

>Because combining two different spells
I don't see where we are combining two different spells? We use plane shift. Not to mention we have a massive amount of wizards at our disposal. We are busy making magic items, but Isla and Ebby are not. So they could easily do the work on the plane shift portal.
Its pretty important to get a stable food supply for the barony and the kingdom.

Ok, writing
Use magic to alter the weather
Contact Ellahi to arrange a trade deal
I guess I need to find the Killing Frost
voting closed

>>36221738
>have several massive information stores on highly advanced magic
And the only thing we've seen related to plane-shifting in them was active mass plane-shifting, not a portal like this.

>I don't see where we are combining two different spells?
Plane Shift and Teleportation Circle, did you not even read what you posted?

>Not to mention we have a massive amount of wizards at our disposal.
I wouldn't call it a massive amount of wizards, it's just one guild hall.

>We are busy making magic items, but Isla and Ebby are not.
Isla is, Ebby probably can't handle this kind of thing due to being an inexperienced, entirely instinctual magic user and also 14.

>Its pretty important to get a stable food supply for the barony and the kingdom.
Killing Frost will be dead this year (hopefully) and we don't need a portal such as this for one trade deal, albeit a very large scale one.

>>36221763
Guess we'll have to prepare for white dragons.

>>36221778
>Plane Shift and Teleportation Circle
I'm not sure if you are being dense on purpose here just to argue. It was obviously making a plane shift portal based on the principle of a teleportation ring. Not combining a teleportation ring with a plane shift portal, which would be utterly pointless.

>And the only thing we've seen related to plane-shifting in them was active mass plane-shifting, not a portal like this.
And that obviously means its the only thing in there.
And I was mostly refering to Isla having a massive amount of arcane knowledge getting shoved into her head. Knowledge based on the magic of the Lords of Life, you know, the guys with the massive planar empire.

The discussion has become pointless anyway since:>>36221723
So yes, we can make one. And it wouldn't even take that much time.

Ok, roll me Willpower 1d20+31 (increase is from Mages assisting you)

Rolled 10 + 31 (1d20 + 31)

>>36221822

Rolled 19 + 31 (1d20 + 31)

>>36221822
Based on previous experience with the Lords of Life, I'm fairly sure killing it will make things just worse.

Rolled 14 + 31 (1d20 + 31)

>>36221822
Here we go!

>>36221778
>Killing Frost will be dead this year
I highly doubt this supposed world destroying catastrophy can be stopped by just killing a dude.
That seems a bit too easy.

“Thank you for your time My Lady” you say. It’s been a while since you saw Ellahi and it will be good to see her again. Of course before that, you might as well try pushing this winter back using magic. If that doesn’t work you’ll contact Ellahi, whilst you work on finding the Killing Frost.

You gather the mages of your new guild as well as Isla and Ebby and over several hours you pool your powers to try and alter the weather.

It’s tough, and by the end of it all of the mages helping you have exhausted their powers, your Isla and Ebby are tired, but not completely exhausted.

Still your efforts have met with some success: across perhaps 4/5ths of your barony the clouds have cleared and sunlight is shining down, slowly melting the snow. Winter has been pushed back for now. Though parts of your realm are still blanketed in snow, food can be delivered to them from the rest of the realm, and vulnerable people and animals can be relocated.

The leader of the mages who assisted you assures you in a tired voice that the spell will hold for a week, and that the mages guild should be able to maintain it after that for a month on their own, though trying to do so for much longer will tax their powers.

Ebby and Isla lean on each other, but seeing you looking at them Isla gives you a thumbs up – she’s ready to keep going if you need her to.

“Trying to change the weather is no easy feat at the best of times I’m told” she says “But this was like trying to lift a mountain, fighting the Killing Frost every winter won’t be easy.”

>That’s enough weather magic for now
>Push further, try to clear a larger area

Enough for now means moving on to the next tasks.

What prohibition did we get yesterday?
It still only shows the first two.

>>36221895

We won't kill, we will just talk to it and warm its heart up.

>>36221932
>That’s enough weather magic for now
That should be enough time to track that thing down.

>>36221946
I expect something like that to be the solution too.

>>36221932
>4/5ths of your barony

We were trying to help the Kingdom. We need to do more.

>Push further, try to clear a larger area

>>36221819
>It was obviously making a plane shift portal based on the principle of a teleportation ring
So taking parts of one spell and parts of another to make a similar spell with a different target area isn't combining spells?

>And that obviously means its the only thing in there.
It's entirely possible, but the nodes can be obnoxious when it comes to looking for certain bits of knowledge.

>And I was mostly refering to Isla having a massive amount of arcane knowledge getting shoved into her head. Knowledge based on the magic of the Lords of Life, you know, the guys with the massive planar empire.
And yet we'd still need to experiment, so the portal is evidently not one of the things explained in the book. Makes sense, given that it's creation falls under 'Arcanotek' (ugh).

>So yes, we can make one. And it wouldn't even take that much time.
The options for making one appear to be either a few weeks, weeks we need to maximize our chances of not dying in Hell, of experimentation or burning Deific Power, not a good idea given how low we are on it right now.

We don't need a portal to Drache at all. It would be nice to have a trade route there, but it's really not urgent, since we're (hopefully) only going to have to make this one deal for food.

We can make a portal there when we aren't under the gun about going to Hell and preventing a demonic invasion/rescuing our mother.


>>36221895
It's an elemental, once we find it, we can deal with it. It's also not world-ending, given that it's grip is only able to last for a short time right now and can only cover this kingdom and part of the Tribal Lands. I'm not going to operate under the assumption that it's impossible for us to defeat until there's some evidence to back that up.

>>36221932
>Push further, try to clear a larger area
If we don't, I bet the other barons complain again because they are lazy shits.

>>36221933
I believe *fail to seek a peaceful solution to a conflict* was the most popular option, adding now.

Thanks for spotting.

>>36221974
So we will have to discuss this with the Killing Frost too.
Maybe we can convince him to move somewhere else.

>>36221963
>I'm not going to operate under the assumption that it's impossible for us to defeat
No one said impossible to defeat, I just doubt killing him will be the solution.

>>36222019
Kill him, bind his soul/essence, give it to Velya.

Done.

Ok, Roll Willpower 1d20+21 to keep going.

Rolled 1 + 21 (1d20 + 21)

>>36222082

Rolled 14 + 21 (1d20 + 21)

>>36222082

Rolled 10 + 21 (1d20 + 21)

>>36222082

“We can’t stop here” you say to Isla and Ebonsong “We need to try and clear the whole kingdom, are you up for it?”

“Sure” says Isla, taking a deep breath, Ebby just gives a tired nod, and the three of you reach out with your arcane powers once more, trying to push the winter back further. It’s working, you can feel the cold being pushed back, not just from your Barony, but from the whole kingdom- no! It’s returning, something is fighting back!

You feel cold begin to seep into your limbs as you screw up your eyes, grit your teeth and push back, beside you, you can feel Isla and Ebby trying to push the winter back as well, their powers weaker than yours but not inconsiderable, even as you feel a layer of frost settle on you, your heart hammering in your chest.

And then you hear a voice echoing in your mind, a voice as soft as the falling snow, as harsh as breaking ice, as cold as the end of the world “So it’s you that ruined my lovely winter. My snow and ice grip barely a third of this world, but it will grow – how dare you stop it! Well, no matter, do you feel your blood getting cold and gelid? Do you feel your heart falter, your limbs too numb to move, give in to the winter, yes that’s it, don’t fight...”

Dimly you hear yelling and what feels like someone patting your cheek...no, slapping you, but why?

>Stop, this is killing you
>Keep pushing back, you can win this!

If you keep pushing...
>Use Deific Power to protect your barony (2)
>Use Deific Power to protect the kingdom (???)
>Use Deific Power to protect the world (???)

>>36222139
>Keep pushing back, you can win this!
We will not be defied by some monster

>>36222139
>Keep pushing back, you can win this!

>>36222139
To clarify, Deific power is not required if you keep pushing, it is optional.

Extra voting option
>Use no Deific Power

>>36222139
>>36222159
>Use no Deific Power

>>36222167
>Use no Deific Power

>>36222139
>Keep pushing back, you can win this!
>Activate Eye of the Storm (+6 Willpower, +2 to allies)
Would it be possible to use our Control Storm ability to help us in some manner if we back it with Divine Energy?

>>36222139
>Keep pushing back, you can win this!
Could we use our strom control to influence the weather, maybe push back the Killing Frosts clouds?

>>36222192
>>36222207
Good points. If possible I'll second that option

>>36222139
>>36222207
>>36222192
Yeah like this. Seconding.
Will probably not help with the battle in our mind right now, but we can use the willpower boost.

>>36222139
>>36222159
>>36222192
>>36222207
Adding those too. At least eye of the storm should be possible.

>>36222192
Ok adding Eye of the Storm and Control Storm

You will not be beaten by some jumped-up ice elemental; you push as hard as you can with your arcane powers, you visualise yourself as the eye of the storm, the calm around which the whole storm moves. You imagine the winter storms moving back, a place of safety and calm around the kingdom. Slowly, slowly but surely you feel the weather bend to your will.

Then everything goes black, and you hear cold laughter echo through your mind.

----

You wake up in your bed, boiling hot – blankets are piled upon you and there is a roaring fire in the hearth, sweat beads on your brow. The only light comes from the fire and candles around the place. The room is empty except for Sofia sat asleep in a chair, she wakes as you throw a few of the blankets off you, damn your arms hurt!

“What?” says a sleepy Sofia, then upon noticing you are awake she jumps up, rushes over and grabs your head in her hands “Oh thank the gods you’re alive Sireyi!” she gasps, hugging you and kissing you soundly, tears glistening in her eyes.

“What happened?” you ask, in between kisses. You notice cold white patches on your arms, most of your body actually – you’re naked under the blankets. The patches are fading slowly.

“You froze” she says “like a block of ice – the mages tried the warm you up but their powers were drained, so we buried you in blankets and heat and hoped for the best.”

“And Isla and Ebonsong?” you ask.

Sofias face goes from joyful relief to regret “Oh Sireyi I’m sorry but, even with your powers you almost didn’t make it. Isla and Ebby weren’t so lucky – by the time we managed to warm them up, it was too late, I’m sorry.”

You realise you can no longer feel the connection to your familiar, or your paladin Isla.

Reaction?

>I want to see them
>Velya will bring them back!
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
>This is my fault (guilt, tears)
>The Killing Frost is going to die! (anger)
>Other

>>36222356
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
>This is my fault (guilt, tears)

File: That is not okay, Yuno Ga(...).jpg (156 KB, 1058x727)

156 KB JPG

>>36222356
Oh my god.
>I want to see them
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
No time for tears. Only stone cold determination.

>>36222356
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
Assuming we can already do that right now
Otherwise
>Velya will bring them back!
If its costs us too much DP we can just invest some angelic power in our companions.

>>36222356
>I want to see them
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
Oh shit. Thats what hubris gets you I guess. We keep forgetting how fragile everything around us is.

You guys need to stop hoarding DP like that. We fucking need to spend them.

>>36222356
>I’m going to bring them back myself!
>This is my fault (guilt, tears)
>The Killing Frost is going to die! (anger)

>>36222417
That's pretty stupid of you to say, anon.

>>36222420
Your face is a stupid of you to say!

>>36222417
>Didn't vote
>complains
We couldn't even know they were still in that spell. Not to mention we don't know if that would have even saved them since we would have spent it on saving the barony/kingdom/world not to protect them from the ice spell.

Well I suppose that's what you get for digging to greedily.

>>36222356
>>Velya will bring them back!
I would love for Sireyi to do this, but we need to safe our DP.
>This is my fault (guilt, tears)
The Killing Frost is a problem for another year (resignation)

“I want to see them” you say, sitting up.

“You’re not fully recovered” says Sofia, trying to push you back down, but losing as you pull yourself out of bed “you need to rest” she says.

“Would you please get me some clothes” you say “Or do I need to walk the halls naked?”

Sofia gives you a long look from head to toes and back up again, and then gives a small smile “as much as that would win me a lot of points with Jal, fine, wait here”.

She fetches you some clothes and you walk down to where Isla and Ebby are laid in state in one of the halls. Ebby is in her human form and they both look so peaceful in death; their eyes closed and laid on their backs with their arms by their sides.

“I did this” you say to Sofia, the two of you alone in the hall “My arrogance and pride – I forgot how fragile everyone else is.”

“Don’t blame yourself” says Sofia, hugging you from behind “You didn’t know.”

“I should have known!” you insist, tears gathering in your eyes “I’m a saint – a goddess, it’s my job to know!”

“Well Goddess” says Sofia, hugging toy tightly, her head resting upon your back “If that’s how you feel, should Jal and I get priestesses outfits and a chapel to live in, if we’re to be your brides? Should I pray before we wed? Before I dare to speak to you?”

“Of course not!” you say irritably, “Sofia this is serious.”

“So am I” she says, turning you to face her, staring up at you and cupping your face in her hands “Sireyi I love you, but get your damn head out of your rear! Isla and Ebby chose to follow you – they could have said no but they didn’t. We’ve all gone into danger knowing this could happen. If you trust us to help you, then you can trust us to think for ourselves.”

“Yeah ok” you say, hanging your head “But still...” you stare at the two bodies lying on the platforms.

“Go on” says Sofia encouragingly “I know you can do this.”

You approach the two of them, laying your hands on their heads and closing your eyes you concentrate, you say to Sofia, almost a whisper “The Killing Frost is going to pay for this.” And then you are simply focusing....

>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby
>Bring Isla Back (3DP)
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby

Due to your connections to these two its easier for you to bring them back then it is to bring back others, the cost is 3 Deific Power each, you currently have 13.

>>36222672
>>Bring Isla Back (3DP)
>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)

>>36222672
>Bring Isla Back (3DP)
>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)
If anything ever is worth it.

>>36222672
>Bring Isla Back (3DP)
>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)


You listed 'ask to resurrect Ebby' twice, just letting you know

>>36222672
>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)
>Bring Isla Back (3DP)

Related question, are we still going to need to use Hide Deific Power when we go to Hell?

>>36222672
>Bring Isla Back (3DP)
>Bring Ebby Back (3 DP)
[poiler] Next order of business, enhance the fuck out of our followers with angelic powers. That gives us DP back and empowers them [/spoiler]

>>36222672
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby.
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby.
Better safe than sorry!

>>36222694
Thanks, 2nd one should be Isla, my mistake

>>36222672
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby.
>Ask Velya to resurrect Ebby.
Ask her mainly what she would require in exchange. If nothing then free rez, if something potentially quest hook or we can do it ourself.

>>36222433

Unlike most of you, I can't check the thread whenever I want, much less post. So yes, I will complain about your retarded voting, regardless of my ability/inability to vote.

That said, not wanting to spend two measly DPs cost us 3 or 6 DPs to fix the screw up. Well done.

>ressurrect Isla
>ask Velya to ressurrect Ebby

>>36222849
Again your assuming that would have prevented it. But it wouldn't. We were already blacking out by the time we got that option, so they were most likely already dead by then.

You reach out to...wherever their souls are and pull them back, breathing life back into them. Isla stirs first, her eyes flickering open she says “Sireyi? Is that you?” even as Ebonsong begins to twitch.

“Yes it’s me” you say, hugging her close “who else would it be?”

“I was looking for you” says Isla “but I couldn’t find you.”

“I’m here now” you whisper as Ebby stirs, saying “Sis? What are you doing here? Where did all the other dragons go?”

“And why are we in the lesser Hall?” asks Isla in confusion. Oh dear...

One explanation later...

“I was dead?” asks Isla in disbelief.

“I’m afraid so” says Sofia “Sireyi bought you back.”

“Uh, wow, thanks” says Isla “Is some sort of ceremony of thanks in order my saint?” she asks with a teasing smile.

“Where were you?” asks Ebonsong of Isla excitedly “I was in a biiiig cavern full of dragons of all sort!” continues your little sister “And there was a pair of ginormous big dragons on a rock above all the others!”

“Sounds a little like the dragon afterlife” says Isla “I was...I was lost, like I was supposed to go somewhere but I wasn’t sure how to get there, except it was where Sireyi was” she looks at you.

“Sounds like maybe you were supposed to go to Sireyis afterlife” comments Sofia “What’s that like Sireyi?”

“I don’t have one yet” you admit

Sofia gives you a teasing smile as Isla and Ebby rub their hands on their arms and take their first faltering steps of their new lives, and she says “So what will it be like?”

>I don’t know
>Hills, valley’s, rivers – much like Velya’s I suppose
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas
>It will be...(write-in)
>Say Isla, about that ceremony of thanks...(tease her, write-ins encouraged for what she has to do)
>Other (what)

>>36222875
>Hills, valley’s, rivers – much like Velya’s I suppose
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas
To spice things up and create some variation.

>>36222875
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas
I can already imagine what Jals suggestions will be. But since they are going to go there eventually, its just fair to ask.
I imagine it will be build on clouds though.

>>36222875
>Hills, valley’s, rivers – much like Velya’s I suppose
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas

>valley's

>>36222875
>>Say Isla, about that ceremony of thanks...(Why don't you talk to Jal, I'm sure she could come up with something pleasing. Unless you think you can beat her. Give her a wink and a smile)

>>36222920
Sorry, will try to avoid that in future.

>>36222875
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas
Actually I imagine it to be dominated by a huge mountain, with storm clouds all around the top on which our palace will be built. Bringing the occasional warm rain shower on the land below.

I just saw that Jal has a lot of Xp left over. And so does Matthias. So there would be two good candidates for some more angelic investments.

>>36222875
>It will be a work in progress for a long time. For the beginning probably just some bland landscape or something.
>I’ll ask you, Isla and Jal for ideas.

>>36222941
I think it's valleys for more than one valley, valleys' for belongs to the valley and valley's for valley is but I'm not >>36222920
on topic
>>36222875
>Hills, valley’s, rivers – much like Velya’s I suppose. Why? Do you have requests?
>>36222982
I like this idea.

>>36222920
>valley's
Hey, I wanted to complain about that!
Good to see I'm not the only one.
>Say Isla, about that ceremony of thanks...(tease her, write-ins encouraged for what she has to do)
She has to hug Sireyi and kiss her.

>>36222982
Depends on the connotations of that loyalty gain from using Blessing of the Most High on people, I recall that Dark Sireyi's had some mental warping connotations when we used it on the shamans.

Also, granting people angelic enhancements might not be worth much DP, if any, since it seems that all it does is make them count as worshipers.

>>36223044
>implying any amount of DP isn't incredibly useful

>>36223060
>Implying that 2 worshipers is enough for any DP
>Implying it's worth possibly mind-warping our friends into being loyal to us

>>36223044
It only says that we can gain DP by granting angelic powers, its pretty vague, true. But at least the first investment should give some.

And for the loyalty, since Blessing of the Most High specifically draws the difference between demonic investments taking something from the recipicient, it doesn't seem to have any such influence.
The point is that angels give freely to the worthy.

>>36223077
>But at least the first investment should give some.
It did, but that happened a while ago, when we went to Drache to give people angelic powers.

>it doesn't seem to have any such influence.
I specifically recall OP mentioning that we'd want to take the XP debt ourselves if we granted powers to someone close to us when we were discussing enhancements to grant the shamans.

That power has to have some kind of balancing factor, it's kinda broken right now.

>>36223069
Its the most effiecient available method.
We seem to get one DP for every 4 worshipper, while only one for every 5 angels.

>>36223103
>enhancements to grant the shamans
Thats a different ability though.

>>36223103
To be fair the entire DP system is broken by design. Its solely balanced by role-playing right now.
Pally said:
>Every full 4XP spent upon gifts from this power permanently raises the recipients loyalty to Sireyi by 1.

I ddidn't understand that as mindwarping into loyalty. Anymore than our succesfull fellowship rolls are mindwarping into loyalty.
And we have already used it before.

>>36223151
This is my opinion on the "mind warping" as well.

“Much like Velyas I imagine” you say “hills, valleys, rivers, that sort of thing – though I was planning on asking you both and Jal for advice.”

“Oh” says Sofia, looking thoughtful “I’ll see what I can come up with...”

“So Isla” you say, turning to her “about that ceremony of thanks, maybe I should ask Jal for a few suggestions to-”

“Weren’t you going to contact Ellahi about buying food?” asks Isla hurriedly, her cheeks heating.

“Of course” you say “I’ll planeshift over there shortly and-”

“Absolutely not!” says Sofia “You’re all going to rest, if you’re going to contact Ellahi” she says to you “you’ll be doing so in your dreams, and not any other way.” She seems scared, but she’s hiding it well.

“Yes of course Sofia” you say “Good idea”

----

You cast your spell and manage to fall asleep, appearing in the midst of a vast building with a crowd of well-dressed demon-blooded standing behind benches on either side arguing. In the middle of the floor between the houses is Ellahi, arguing with both sides.

“The Honourable Member for Basingfold is correct!” bellows one old male demon-blood “This death-tax will strangle the hard-working business owners who have built up their wealth through their blood, sweat and tears – leaving only a pittance to pass onto their heirs!”

Another demon-blood male on the opposite bench jumps to his feet “Will the Honourable Member for Wexton-on-River please explain how a 25% tax on estates worth over two-hundred thousand strangle anyone? It’s a small tax on the most wealthy, I’m sure his objections have nothing to do with such peoples generous donations to his campaign and his own pockets, the deceitful basta-” He is shouted down by people on both sides. In the middle of this Ellahi is appealing for calm, but is being ignored.

>Wait and watch
>Ellahi this is a dream, I need to talk to you
>Make them all shut up by using magic
>Take control of the dream (turn it into what?)
>Other (what?)

>>36223151
I actually forgot the loyalty system was a thing. Do we still use that? I mean we didn't have any rolls or improvements on it in ages.
Jal and Sofia are still stuck at 6, which seems rather strange to me, all things considered.

>>36223118
>We seem to get one DP for every 4 worshipper, while only one for every 5 angels.
That's not how it's calculated. There are diminishing returns for worshipers, the first point only required one and the amount we need for each point continues increasing.

>Thats a different ability though.
Except it's not? Which ability do you think we used on the humans in Drache? Do you think converted half-demons and humans granted powers are calculated separately for some reason?

>>36223151
>To be fair the entire DP system is broken by design
It's not broken, if it was, then DP wouldn't be so damn valuable and we wouldn't try to hoard it.

Oh, hey, guess what I found.

>>35891299
You can (if you want) pay some or all of the XP costs to avoid the target automatically becoming loyal to you - you might do this if you granted Sofia some abilities for example, but there's not any reason to not have that side-effect affect the orcs.

Why would he say that if it wasn't something to avoid doing to our allies?

>>36223171
>Wait and watch

>>36223171
>Wait and watch
oooh interesting

>>36223171
>Wait and watch

>>36223198
>Except it's not?
The point was the ability used on the shamans was the OtherSireyis investment ability, which doesn't necessarily work the same way.

>It's not broken, if it was, then DP wouldn't be so damn valuable
If we wanted to, we could just spam angelic children into the womb of every child-wanting women in the kingdom, invest everyone who wants angelic powers and have tons of DP. We only don't because of role-playing.

>That's not how it's calculated.
I'm sorry, I don't have the calculation for DP, I can only make assumption based on the num,bers, if you have it, then feel free to share it.

Pally can you weigh in on this whole debate. I'm of the opinion its essentially the same as rolling fellowship for loyalty but that may be incorrect.

>>36223198
>>35891299
>You can (if you want) pay some or all of the XP costs to avoid the target automatically becoming loyal to you - you might do this if you granted Sofia some abilities for example, but there's not any reason to not have that side-effect affect the orcs.

>Why would he say that if it wasn't something to avoid doing to our allies?

>>36223198
>Why would he say that if it wasn't something to avoid doing to our allies?
I have no idea. We already did do it to our allies.

>>36223198
>Why would he say that if it wasn't something to avoid doing to our allies?
>>36223264
Actually, I think that refers to the investment ability of our double and her Sofia.
Since she isn't using the same method we do, she only grants similar abilities.

>>36223247
>I'm sorry, I don't have the calculation for DP, I can only make assumption based on the num,bers, if you have it, then feel free to share it.

>>34955897
>sorta, DP is based upon your worshipers (which paladins automatically are) but it's not 1:1 but rather that your first worshiper grants you a point.
This is why I think that the amount of worshipers required for each point of DP increases each time. Also that it would be absurdly broken for us to only require 4 worshipers for each point of DP.

>If we wanted to, we could just spam angelic children into the womb of every child-wanting women in the kingdom, invest everyone who wants angelic powers and have tons of DP. We only don't because of role-playing.
Fair point.

>The point was the ability used on the shamans was the OtherSireyis investment ability, which doesn't necessarily work the same way.
I know, my initial statement was only worried that it did work the same way due to there not being any real indication it doesn't.

At the time, she had Blessing of the Most High, it's possible that it was altered by the Lord of Life to some degree like RT, but it's just as possible that it wasn't.


>>36223274
I'm fine with using it if that's how it works, I'm just worried about the possibility of warping our friends minds.

Increasing Loyalty Via Blessing of the Most High

When most Angels grant powers to people they don't increase their loyalty to the angel personally, but to the ideals the angel follows - good, order, freedom, smiting demons etc.

Sireyis is more personal - the more power she grants someone the more they like her. This is a magical influence but her allies probably don't even notice it happening since they like her already.

This doesn't make them obedient to her, or make them love her unconditionally, it does make them see her more favourably.

Loyalty is a measure of how well a person likes Sireyi as well as a behind the curtain mechanic for lowering Fellowship rolls to convince allies to do certain things - not that she needs the reduction given her Fellowship bonus.

It is not mind-control, at worst it is emotional manipulation - and even that is debatable.

Sireyi and her doubles ability are mechanically the same except that for Sreyi the loyalty increase is a side-effect, for her double it's a useful bonus, given who she's dealing with.

>>36223333
>the more power she grants someone the more they like her
Okay, I guess I'll have to agree with >>36223329
then afterall. I personally consider any amount of mind-alteration too much mind-alteration.

>>36223329
>due to there not being any real indication it doesn't
Fair enough, we didn't have the CharSheet for her back then so we can't know if it already worked different then. Since now her write-up doesn't have the paragraph on the difference between demonic and angelic investments.

So we need to travel the land for a few weeks to bless deserving mortals in our barony?
Seems like the only way to get some DP back.
We seem to have too many angels for that too be efficient.
Maybe we get some more from the succubutts we save in hell.

>>36223387
I don't really see how its any worse than giving someone a spectacular gift. Of course doing something like that causes them to look at us favorably, whether its a magical or mundane effect.

>>36223441
>This is a magical influence
So its not quite the same thing. There is defintive mind-alteration going on. It may or may not be to an extent that might have happened anyway. But I suppose we could tell the person beforehand.

>>36223440
We could tell our angels to be on the lookout for deserving mortals when they're out in our barony.

>>36223333
Wait, do people that get investment by our Twin, since she is our paladin, count for our DP?
She could be considered a sort of avatar of us, afterall.

>>36223461
I don't really get the worry about it honestly. We are a divine being, a literally Goddess. I feel like an extremely mild "you view this person slightly more favorably" is perfectly in line with gifting someone powers with an ability called "Blessing of the Most High"

>>36223517
>We are a divine being, a literally Goddess.
First, we're just a Saint at this point, not a full Goddess.

Second, I absolutely despise the line of thinking that divinity places someone above the morality of lesser beings.

>>36223516
Oh, thats a good question. Seconding.

You decide to wait and watch. The argument gets more and more venomous – both sides ignoring Ellahis attempt to calm them until she screams in frustration, and starts to grow and grow until her head brushes the ceiling.

She reaches down, grabs two of the arguing members of the house and smashes them together into a bloody mess “How’s that for your appropriations Bill?” she asks as the other members flee from your giant sister.

She stomps on several of them “no funding for the poor eh? Tax cuts only for your campaign donors?” she yells, crushing more beneath her feet.

She stomps in your direction, crushing fleeing politicians with every step and berating them as she does so.

You step aside as she almost crushes you, chasing the politicians out of the building and down the street.

You take flight and keep pace with her, finally when it becomes clear she hasn’t noticed you, you yell “feel better?” in her ear.

She starts, finally noticing you “Sireyi” she says, shrinking down to her normal height and flying next to you “Erhm, hi, how’re you?” She looks embarrassed about her rampage.

“I’m fine” you say chuckling “and you?”

“Been better” she says as the two of you soar over the Drache cityscape of Ellahis dream “frustrated”.

“I can see that” you respond.

“So?” she asks with a leer “is this a business visit, or are you here to help with my frustrations?”

>Flirt with her
>Talk about buying food
>Talk about dealing with a giant frost monster
>Talk about Succubi you might rescue from Hell
>Talk about your planned trip to Hell
>Talk about other topic (what?)

>>36223516
>Wait, do people that get investment by our Twin, since she is our paladin, count for our DP?

Not automatically, but you can make this be the case if you want, you might want to discuss it with her first.

>>36223541
We have the spark. That, and the level of power, decided by DP, is the only difference. Saint is literally just what the Kingdom apparently calls low level Gods and Goddesses.

To your second point. Those of divinity literally define the morality of lesser beings when they are beings of actual Good and Evil.

>>36223582
>Talk about buying food
>Talk about dealing with a giant frost monster
>Talk about Succubi you might rescue from Hell
>Talk about your planned trip to Hell

>>36223582
>Talk about buying food
>Talk about Succubi you might rescue from Hell
>Talk about your planned trip to Hell
Not wanting to bring them to Drache, but she probably had extensive "dealings" with them.

>>36223582
>Flirt with her
>Talk about buying food
>Talk about dealing with a giant frost monster
>Talk about Succubi you might rescue from Hell
>Talk about your planned trip to Hell

>>36223594
>To your second point. Those of divinity literally define the morality of lesser beings when they are beings of actual Good and Evil.
Gods aren't inherently good or evil, where did you even get that idea from?

Angels tend to be good because it's written into their beings to help them fight demons and resist temptation, demons are made of evil and as such tend towards evil. Gods are neither.

>>36223582
>Talk about buying food
>Talk about Succubi you might rescue from Hell
>Talk about dealing with a giant frost monster

>>36223631
You bring up a good setting point that I believe we should ask the QM about.

Pally

As far as I am aware, Gods of Good and Evil are literal embodiments of such.

In this setting, who or what decides morality? In my mind this would be the domain of the supreme beings, Gods.

How do Gods of Good stand on the issue of mind alteration? Do they use things such as angles voice without recrimination? Does Velya/Konig/etc use Angel's voice equivalent? Powers like "Blessing of the Most High" without worry? That kind of stuff. I'd like to know in setting what the morally "correct" way is.

>>36223804
>what the morally "correct" way is
I think we are dealing here with different ideals which all still fall within the spectrum of "Good".
Not every good person needs to agree with a sentiment just because it still falls under moral good behavior.
Using Blessings of the most High isn't Evil or somehow fails to be Good, but it still can be disagreeable to some people.

>>36223804
>In my mind this would be the domain of the supreme beings, Gods
I think Gods of Good are more Gods that are good, not gods that decide what is good, since they seem to disagree a lot on that. See Konig vs. Veyla.
So ethics are not as universal as aligment.
Forced marriage, for example, is apprently not something the Church of the Good God Konig disagrees with, Veyla does. Neither of them is more good then the other.

>>36223838
eh, "mind alteration" generally has severely negative connotations that to me inspire the idea of at very best being a neutral power. I figure its best to ask how it is perceived so our choices can properly reflect being in character with the setting.

>>36223804

I'm typing the update, I'll respond after that.

>>36223882
>has severely negative connotations that to me inspire the idea of at very best being a neutral power
Thats pretty much the issue here. You finding "mind-alteration is bad" is a matter of ethics, not of morals. Thats why people have spend the last several decades debating the aligment system up and down. And why the term "mind-rape" was invented.
There is aligment, Good and Evil, and then there is Ethics, and these things can clash pretty hard. Things can be aligment wise good while still being against someones ethics.
We had this debate with the redeeming-touch thing. It was mind alteration that ultiametly made someone "Good" and was therefore aligment wise, a good thing. Not even neutral, it was good. But it still fiercly clashed with the personal ethics of a lot of people, for which mind-alteration who believe that mind-alteration in the purpose of "good" isn't the right way, everyone for their own reasons.

>>36223949
>Ethics and morality are different

ethics
noun plural
the code of good conduct for an individual or group <the ethics of scouting require scouts to be loyal, clean, and reverent>

morality
noun

beliefs about what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior

the degree to which something is right and good : the moral goodness or badness of something

Seems to me like they're saying more-or-less the same thing.

Morality is entirely subjective.

>>36223995
In this case I used "morality" to mean believe in Good and Evil. Which is different from ethics which is a personal code of right conduct.

>>36223995
Those seem pretty different to me.

>>36223995
I can only tell you to look up the philosophical root of the terms to understand the difference, which might not be immediatly obvious if you look at a one sentence explanation.

>>36223949
Honestly, my first thought to that is. "But thats just stupid."

Its a game so personal ethics/morals shouldn't come into play when in universe an action is literally a good thing. Additionally, ethics and morality, in the terms of which you are speaking, are very nearly the same thing.

Now, I can accept and disagree with the argument that RT was overpowered or something. But making that determination on personal ethics simply makes no sense to me in the slightest.


>>36224036
That which is Right being decided by morals. Which in game have shown those things to be good and therefore right.
Interesting breakdown of the actual differences of ethics/morals
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

>>36223804
Morality is entirely subjective.

Even a being of pure good can't define what is moral and what isn't, it's different for everyone.


I wouldn't call Gods supreme beings either, they're simply very, very powerful beings that can control certain aspects of reality. They're just as fallible as you or I, as we've shown previously.

I suspect all the Gods may be former mortals as well.

>>36224100
>That which is Right being decided by morals.
But thats wrong. Someone can have ethics without having morals. Its not at all the same thing. And the explanation in that site is completly wrong, because ethics are defined as a "personal" code of conduct, regardless of the source.

>Its a game so personal ethics/morals shouldn't come into play
Because ethics and morals are different things.
Something can be a Good action, while still being against somenes personal ethics.
They are not at all the same thing.

“Business” you say with a friendly smile, explaining about your troubles.

“So with winter everywhere” you say “how much would it cost me to buy food for a month for almost 100,000 people?”

Ellahi conjures up papers with trade records on them “I’d need to check the math once I wake up” she says “but perhaps 150,000 gold.”

“That’s a whole year of income for my barony!” you protest.

“It’s 10,000 tonnes of food” responds Ellahi “you could make do with less, but some of your people might starve.”

Seeing your glum expression, she says “alright, how about a loan – you pay me off when you can; no interest? It’s the best I can do.”

“Maybe” you respond “let me think about it, whilst I do – what should I do about the Killing Frost?”

“Find it and kill it” says Ellahi simply

“It might make things worse” you say “might spread it across the plane”

Ellahi sighs “so trap it in a giant diamond and drop it in the elemental plane of fire” she says “and come and see me again if that doesn’t work.”

“Yeah I’ll probably be seeing you again” you say “about Succubi”

Ellahi drifts closer and rubs the tip of her tail up your thigh as the two of you fly together “I understand completely” she says “wedding night jitters – of course you want it to be magical for your special someone but you don’t know what you’re doing, I know some very good teachers and I can get you a discount if you like” she purrs.

“Not that” you say, brushing her tail away “The succubi in Salvastises realm – I can’t just leave them there, but where to send them once they’re free?”

“They’d be welcome in Drache” says Ellahi carefully “but with all the demons and part-demons here it might remind them too much of home.”

“I didn’t think of that” you admit.

“The offer is open” says Ellahi “But I expect they’d be happier in a place with mortals, and perhaps even angels – though you might have to restrict them somewhat.”

“What do you mean?” you ask

>>36224100
Damn it Mathrian put your trip back on.

“Oh Succubi are lovely” says Ellahi, stretching and smiling “But they don’t respect monogamy at all, and in Hell they breed large families because so many of them die, you’d need some way to restrict the resulting population bloom if they’re here, or on your home plane.”

“Thanks for the warning” you say “I’ll bear that in mind, in Hell it’s going to be pretty dangerous” you add “I’ve already picked who is going, but I’d appreciate your input.”

“I don’t find fault with your plan” says your sister “but are you sure you can kill Salvastis on your own? Last time you needed a Huroni superweapon as I recall.”

“I can do it” you say firmly “I am a Saint”

“And how are your numbers of worshippers and power base coming along” asks your sister.

“Could be faster” you admit

“Then you need to gather more power” she points out “and quickly, now, was there anything else?”

Food
>I’ll find another option
>I’ll pay (taken from next years funds)
>Ok, loan me the money
>I’ll borrow elsewhere
>I’ll pay less for less food (amount?)
>I’ll do something else (what?)

No vote on Killing Frost yet, because, ditto Succubi.

Deific Power
>I’m fine as I am
>I need to increase my powers somehow (options in next post)

Other
>Thanks Ellahi (ends conversation)
>I want to discuss (what?)

FUCK YEAH PALADIN OF JOY QUEST!

>>36224172
>Ok, loan me the money
Gotta swallow our pride(don't suse that phrase around Elahi), to help our people.
>I need to increase my powers somehow (options in next post)
Send our angels out to find worthy mortals. Especially in this time of need their si a chance for the best to come out in those that have it.
>Thanks Ellahi (ends conversation)

>>36224172
>Ok, loan me the money
Payment plans?

>I need to increase my powers somehow (options in next post)
>Thanks Ellahi (ends conversation)


>>36224165
What is it with me that you have such a problem with? I'm curious

>>36224217
I have no problem with you, I would just wish you would put your trip back on so I could know not to get into a morality argument that we both know won't be productive.

>>36224159
>Salvastises
Should be Salvastis's, I think.

>>36224150
I don't see how the site is wrong.

Morality is a personal code of what is right and wrong, Ethics are a societal code of what is right and wrong. That's the definition I'm most familiar with and how I usually interpret those words.

>>36224172
>I’ll pay less for less food (half)
People have access to food just not enough, we can risk it if we plan on killing Frosty.
>I need to increase my powers somehow (options in next post)

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25 KB JPG

>>36224226
Oh... well then. Thats quite understandable. I honestly thought it was just tripfag related bitching as opposed to anything more than that. Good to know.

Sorry anon for the inconvenience. I'm not tripping since I don't do much other than vote lately so there hasn't been a need to help differentiate arguments.

>>36224246
>Ethics are a societal code of what is right and wrong
Ethics are actually originally the philosophy concerning itself with human behavior.
The simple ethic was merely the discipline that tried to distinguish proper behavior according to the greek philosophy, which came up with the term, the important part here being that it required it to be something open to reflection and rational insight.
Which differs it from morality, which does not.
It does not by itself, make a difference between a code of conduct imposed by the outside or coming from the inside.

>>36223804
>In this setting, who or what decides morality?

Good and Evil are universal concepts in setting, tangible forces like gravity or heat.

However individual acts and choices can be good or evil depending upon circumstances, likewise an act can be slightly good, or very good, or could be an evil act to accomplish a good outcome (murdering a tyrant for example).

No one person, or group of people or gods has absolute understanding over what is good or evil, but people look to good gods (and their priests) for guidance because it is generally accepted that the good gods have a better understanding of such things than mortals.

>How do Gods of Good stand on the issue of mind alteration?

The Gods of Good have differing views on the morality of mind alteration as well as what mind alteration is.

Konig thinks it is acceptable to use magic or divine powers to make someone obey orders or their rightful lord, because he's big on order and hierarchy.

He finds using mind-control on a superior to be wrong, unless the superior is obviously evil.

Konig believes that only domination (forcing) someone to do something is mind-control. Charming. emotional manipulation etc are not mind-control.

Velya dislikes mind-control, but sees it as a necessary tool sometimes; she dislikes violence too, but acknowledges that sometimes it is unavoidable.

Velya sees both domination and blatant emotion-control as wrong but using these tools to prevent violence and suffering are acceptable. More subtle emotion control (i.e. Fellowship bonus from Angels Voice) is to her, not mind-control, just oratory skill.

All gods can overawe mortals by their presence and voice. They justify it to themselves in different ways but most believe that establishing who they are when dealing with mortals saves a lot of time and prevents mortals from doing something stupid like attacking them or calling them false gods.

>>36224313
Considering there are literally thousands of books, having been written by thousands of people for several thousands of years discussing these things, a lot of definitions exist.
There is no real "original", nor is there a "currently accepted".

File: I like this post Far Cry 3.gif (1.37 MB, 200x254)

1.37 MB GIF

>>36224338
Absolutely excellent response Pally. Thank you a ton. I'll throw the question up in the ask as well for future reference.

>>36224343
My thoughts exactly.

>>36224291
I can understand that, its just frustrating is all.
But considering that some people do bitch about tripfags, its not unreasonable you assumed that.

huh, isla and ebby died and I was less upset then I though I would be. Interesting.
Also, great thread so far guys!
>Ok, loan me the money
>I need to increase my powers somehow (options in next post)
>I want to discuss (has the eater of fate come back yet?)

>>36224396
I completely understand. I also figured it was related (it might be) to the last time I actually took part in debate where an anon compared me to fluff and told me to put my trip on so he could filter me. Thats why I immediately assumed it was related to bitching about tripfags or for some reason something personal.

Once again, apologies for the frustration. I personally don't enjoy engaging in the same argument with the same person when the debate has pretty much just come down to a difference of opinions.

“Ok” you say “loan me the money, and we’ll figure out how I can repay you.”

“Excellent” she says with a rather creepy smile “you can pay me back when you can” she drifts closer and her voice drops to a whisper “of course if you want to *convince* me to write-off some of the debt, just let me know...”

“You have given me a lot to think about” you say, changing the topic “I need to increase my powers somehow – perhaps increase my number of worshippers.”

“Any other ways you can increase your powers?” asks Ellahi curiously

“I could increase my number of worshippers here or in Dornmer, perhaps by empowering them” you say “or perhaps find some way to draw power from my darker twins followers, and.” You add “I could possibly recruit more angels, somehow.”

“Didn’t you already recruit all the angels you could?” points out your sister.

“Just all those that follow Velya” you say “but demons can be converted, and I might be able to convince more to follow me.”

“You set high standards here” says Ellahi “Gendric has only found a few who past the tests, and” she says “some who want to follow you do so for the wrong reasons.”

“What do you mean?” you ask, as you swoop around a particularly tall building

“Sireyi” she says “The three demon lords ruled over Drache for centuries, losing one was a major historical event, but even then it was accepted that he was trapped, and would one day return. They were major powers who ruled through fear. In the space of a few days you killed all of them.”

Ellahi lands atop a building and looks at you sadly “Sister do you realise how much the ordinary citizen of Drache fears you? Were you to appear in the midst of a city now there would be mass panic, religious hysteria – as people think you have come to punish them.”

“I didn’t know” you say, circling lower “I just tried to help people” you land beside her, your wings drooping “I didn’t want to scare anyone.”

“You’re an avenger here” says Ellahi, putting an arm over your shoulders “The Angel of Vengeance strikes down only the guilty, but beware her gaze, for she sees all sins” she quotes, adding “if you want to drive up your number of worshippers here it can be done, but you’ll be recruiting an army, not a bunch of nurses and charity-workers.”

You’re silent for a while before saying “Thank you for your time Ellahi”

You wake up in the dark, wondering at what you should do

>My power is fine for now
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Recruit more followers in Drache
>Draw power from my sisters followers
>Recruit more angels, somehow
>Other (what?)

I’ve left off a couple of options, for obvious reasons. You know which ones

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Discuss drawing powers from her followers with our twin

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
I don't think we want anything like a army that fears us as angel of vengeance, let Gendric do his thing, he knows the place better than us.
>Draw power from my sisters followers
We should ask her though, and that will not be a pretty conversation

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Recruit more followers in Drache
>Draw power from my sisters followers
>Recruit more angels, somehow

B-but we need hoards of angelic children to balance out the hoards of demonic children we'll get with the sucubutts. I want the entire realm made of of Human/angel/demon hybrids!

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Draw power from my sisters followers (ask her first)

also, pally I love you for assuming I'm smart enough to know what your are talking about but that's a bad Idea. what options where left out?

>>36224778
Bestowing angelic kids on people
Accepting power from Velya

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Discuss drawing powers from her followers with our twin
I think we can leave the making of more angels to when we find the succubutts.

>>36224778
>>36224772
Lets not go there again, its a silly place.

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Recruit more followers in Drache
>Draw power from my sisters followers
Let's face facts, we need an army but it needs the right core of Good at it's hart.

>>36224806
Oh.
>>36224811
yeah sorry for bring it up, It's just that I hate not knowing things. You know?

>>36224815
>we need an army
We don't. At all.
What are we going to do with them? Take them to hell as cannon fodder? Leave them in Drache where they can besmirch our name by acting like reghteous pricks? We would be making a second church of Konig, just worse.

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Recruit more followers in Drache
>Draw power from my sisters followers

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Draw power from my sisters followers

Sure enough people that follow us out of fear and in the hope of getting to be the army of vengeance are totally the kind of people we want representing our church.
No.

>>36224772
I don't think angel/demon hybrids (I think those are called Nepharim?) are a thing.

I mean, angelic and demonic energies instinctively try to destroy each other, any pregnancy from such a union would probably be a miscarriage, and even if it isn't, the child's body would be at perpetual war with itself, like Ellahi's condition but a thousand times worse.

>>36224828
Um.. I don't know. The goddamn War that our sister is building an army for? THE WAR. You do remember we told her we'd be harder right? I think recruiting an army counts

Maybe we should tell the king about the killing frost and our plan to capture it. he might be able to help.

>>36224853
"Nephilim" are human/angel hybrids, technically.
It might be a thing in this setting? We haven't seen it yet.

>>36224828
As >>36224855 said the Lords of Life will need stopping.

>>36224855
And what are you going to do until that one arrives? let them sit around? A army without a war is a terrible thingf. Especially if that army considers itself to have a license to punish the unrighteous.
Again, it would be like Konigs Church, just made of former demons, having grown up in a empire of evil.

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Draw power from my sisters followers

>>36224855
Not that anon, but I get where he's coming from.

Kinda don't want to have to deal with a bunch of self-righteous zealots.

If we don't deal with them, they're a problem, but if we do, then we're undermining the image our sister constructed of us to keep the demonic population from being shitbags.

>>36224867
I was talking about Nepharim (angel/demon), not Nephilim.

I know that Nephilim are human/angel, no matter what Devil May Cry has to say about it.

>>36224715
>Recruit more followers in Dornmer
>Recruit more followers in Drache

>>36224912
>I was talking about Nepharim
I never heard that term before, where is it from?

>>36224912
Eh, what better way of changing their mind than direct contact with us?

response will be delayed a few minutes as I eat dinner.

>>36224943
But they wouldn't have direct contact with us. We barely spend time with our direct allies like Grax and TwoBlue, what makes you think we would be anything but a distant figure to those guys?
And Gendric already has direct contact to them.

>>36224912
Maybe you confuse it with Neraphim? Those guys living in Limbo in Planescape?

>>36224958
They'd have significantly more contact with us than simply leaving them be. As their general/goddess/whatever we would actually be able to say shit to them. Anyway, just my opinion.

>>36224992
>we would actually be able to say shit to them
We can already do that though. Thats why we have them available in the first place.
If we reward that kind of attitude it just reinforces it.

>>36224934
I can't recall, actually.

>>36224990
That might be what happened. It's a decent enough word for referring to angel/demon hybrids, regardless of it's origins.

>>36224943
But if we change their mind about us and our beliefs, then we'd be showing them we aren't an angel of vengeance, which would result in word spreading that that's not who we are and the demonic populace acting like fuckbuckets again.

>>36224815
>>36224903
I'm the anon who made these posts. >>36224855 is not me (I hate when anons get which anon is which mixed up (but not the anon who did)) but I'm sure we could keep an army under control.

>>36225016
Hey, I don't have a problem with the Avenging angel idea. Hell it certainly inspires armies, which we really need right now if we want to have a chance against the Lords of Life

I think we should just let Elahi handle this kind of shit. I don't want to fuck this up for her, and empowering a bunch of people like that would definitly cause disruptions she can't need right now.
Poor girl has to deal with the fallout of our stuff to this day. I think its best if we stay nebolous beyond what Gendric does, he would know best.

While we are at it, have we already considered asking Gendric if he wants to be our Paladin too? He technically serves Veyla, but we already draw people from his "congregation".

>>36225058
If we were there surely we could.
But most of the time we wouldn't.
These people will still have lives in Drache. Ripping them away from that just to die in a war in a distant plane sounds even worse to me.

The army our sister builds actually has her around all the time. We simply don't have that time.

>>36225070
Making someone a Paladin costs 15 DP at this point, I believe.

>>36225062
Okay, let me explain.

If we have the hypothetical army consider us an avenging angel, they'll act like self-righteous assholes, at least some of them.

If we disillusion them, we'll have to deal with the fact that most of Drache will learn of this and Ellahi will lose her main tool for keeping the demonic population in check, namely, the threat of the Angel of Vengeance.

>>36225132
Well a bunch of self righteous assholes makes for a damn better army than a handful of very nice people. Don't get me wrong, they should be reigned in if they get cocky, but all things considered I think the threat of a few assholes is more than worth the risk. The fallout from that is significantly easier to deal with than dying because we didn't have a big enough army or because we ran out of DP that we needed in a fight.

You know, we don't actually need to make them our followers to get Drache troops in our war against the Lord of Life.
They have just as much to fear from him as we do.
So we can just ask once the actual fighting starts if anyone in Drache would be willing to fight them, I'm sure there are a lot of former and current soldiers areound ithcing to get back to fighting. It takes these guys off Elahis hands, and we got our troops without needeing to approve of shitty behavior.

>>36225114
>These people will still have lives in Drache. Ripping them away from that just to die in a war in a distant plane sounds even worse to me.
>>36225132
>If we disillusion them, we'll have to deal with the fact that most of Drache will learn of this and Ellahi will lose her main tool for keeping the demonic population in check, namely, the threat of the Angel of Vengeance.
These are both good points. Can we come up with a doctrine (Divine or otherwise) to get round them?

>>36225225
I'd be perfectly fine with attempting to creat a doctrine for our followers that attempts to negate the assholishness followers of Konig seem to have

>>36225206
>Well a bunch of self righteous assholes makes for a damn better army than a handful of very nice people.
I disagree with that notion. Self-righteous assholes aren't very good for discipline.
And if its only "a few assoles" it wouldn't be much of a a army. We need a whole bunch of assholes.

>>36225225
>Can we come up with a doctrine (Divine or otherwise) to get round them?
Our Doctrine really only matters ot our priests and paladins. It might work over the longterm, if we have e stablished church and oversight, but we don't at this point.

Recruiting in Dornmer + talking to your double receive almost unanimous support. Writing this

Recruiting in drache is more controversial.

Final destination in 5 minutes

>>36225225
The problem is enforcement.
We can only really enforce it on our paladins and priests, while on "normal people" or even those angelic empowered, we can't unless we are around do it personally. And if we keep smacking them for doing what they think we want, its not very good for morale either, it makes people unsatisified.
We should wait until gendric has gotten the notion through that assholish behavior isn't okay, before we start such recruitment.

>>36225273
>And if its only "a few assoles" it wouldn't be much of a a army. We need a whole bunch of assholes.
I think he's assuming most of the recruits wouldn't be cockbags.

Like a 25/1 decent/douchenozzle ratio, somewhat similar to the church of Konig.

Recruit more in Drache?

Y/N

Please DO NOT quote this post and do not use greentext or anything else only a Y or an N. Failing to follow these simple rules will result in your vote not being counted.

Methods of avoiding out-of-control followers will be voted on later.

>>36225360
adding 5 minutes time from original post then vote closes

N

>>36225273
...Anon. Have you ever met army guys? They are generally assholes, even if they are nice otherwise.

They would need structure and rules and discipline if they were assholes. Hell, we have a significantly better kingdom than others. I'm sure our army will be as well.

Additionally, Its not like D Sireyi isn't making an extremely disciplines army out of Orcs and Ogres. Which I think speaks for itself.

N

Y

Y

N

>>36225391
>Have you ever met army guys?
I was a army guy.
They are people like everyone else. Some nice, nsome not so nice. It depends on the army, recruitment stanbdards, doctrine and rules.
In some countries armies they might be more assoles, in some not. It depends on a lot of factors.

>>36225282
>Recruiting in drache is more controversial.
I think it comes down we want to be responsible if we do it.
>>36225273
>Our Doctrine really only matters to our priests and paladins. It might work over the longterm, if we have an established church and oversight, but we don't at this point.
I did say "or otherwise" for a reason.
I want to make this work but I'm ok admitting we can't do it yet (but I've voted for yes).

Vote closed, counting

N

>Breed like the rumours says

This would just make everything so much easier.

>>36225391
As a army guy I take issue with that statement.
Not every army functions the same and has the same criteria.
I assume you are from the U.S:, and can understand why you would have that idea though.

Y

>>36225462
I am. And don't take it personally I frankly assume everyone is an asshole. But the US army is very good at being an asshole.

>>36225444
I hope you have seen I have deleted the first post Y, because I had missposted.
The displaying of delted post is sometimes odd here.

>>36225444
If it will help matters I'll drop my yes vote to a "Get our house in order then recruit" vote.

>>36225484
Without wanting to insult them, but your army is especially bad because of your recruitment standards, style of training and the way your army treats its soldiers encourage that kind of thing. Its not how the average modern army looks like. Or even the average army looks like

>>36225506
Its 3/2 for N.

>>36225506
It was 3-2 in favor of N if you don't count the deleted post.

>>36225530
>>36225531
yea, I missed that.

>>36225516
I quite agree. Additionally we have a lot of rednecks who can't wait to shoot dem sand niggers. And its not like thats discouraged. I don't have a lot of respect for those kind of people in the Army. And I'm disappointed because its not like our military force would be unable to project its strength over the same regions if they just had some higher standards

After lying awake thinking about it and turning ideas over and over in your head you decide that increasing recruitment in Dornmer will be a good idea, and speaking to your sister the *Azure Empress* about her followers worshipping you is a good idea. You struggled with the idea for a bit but decided not to increase recruitment in Drache – you’re not comfortable with being seen as an instrument of vengeance and you worry about what sort of follower that will attract.

Increasing recruitment in Dornmer will be easy, a quick conversation with Velya will set things in motion...with your sister things are more complex.

The next morning you contact your double “What?” her voice echoes in your mind irritably

“We need to talk” you say “about...things”

“Fine” she says “my troops are training before the Broken Boar mountain – come and see what I’ve accomplished” you detect a not-so-subtle hint of challenge in her voice.

A quick spell later and you are soaring above a vast hoard of orcs and beastmen going through some sort of wargame; there are thousands of them! In amongst them you can see a few ogres, giants, even a couple of dragons!

Circling you see a tall wooden tower, with your double stood atop it, you descend on the tower, seeing the other Sofia there, along with a dozen or so heavily armoured orcs clustered around the two, as well as perhaps 20 or so chieftains of both orcs and beastmen.

“Greetings” says your double as you descend, the bodyguards raise their weapons but Sofia quells them with a single look, the chieftains just watch you warily. “What did you want to discuss?” she asks

Main
>Be blunt and to the point
>Offer her something to make her favour your request (what?)
>Discuss it in a roundabout way
>Other approach (what?)

Extra
>Talk about wargames
>Talk about the chiefs
>Other topic (what?)

>>36225516
>>36225418
I suppose I should apologize. My basis of it is regarding the America GI and since I've lived the past 10 years in butt fuck nowhere where most of the rednecks went army because they couldn't do anything else... I don't have high opinions of them. I am aware that other armies have higher standards and that the US does have soldiers better than the ones I'm used to. I was also simply generalizing based on how I imagine medieval armies to have acted. Sorry

>>36225706
>Discuss it in a roundabout way
We need to be really delicate about this, we can't come across as wanting to usurp her authority, or putting ourselves above her. We make it a favor, she helps us get Divine Power, and we help her.
>Offer her something to make her favour your request (what?)
Lets she what she needs, we got cheap iron and horses, a good cavalry is literally worth its wight in gold.

>>36225768
>we got cheap iron and horses
We're using the iron for our own military and it's less that we have good horses and more that we have a way to acquire good horses.

>>36225706
>>36225768
I'll agree with offering something, but I think we should just be blunt. I imagine she'll think of it as us trying to force her into it by being sneaky rather than us coming to her for help.

>Be blunt and to the point
>Offer her something to make her favour your request (what?)
>Talk about wargames
>Talk about the chiefs

>>36225706
>>36225829
Good point, changing >>36225768
to
>Be blunt and to the point

>>36225706
>Discuss it in a roundabout way

>>36225829
The thing we're discussing pretty much reveals that we're a goddess and she isn't, and the chieftains are *right there*, she uses religion to control them.

>>36225706
>Be blunt and to the point
>Talk about wargames
>Talk about the chiefs
>Other topic (The killing frost)

>>36225706
>Be blunt and to the point
>Offer her something to make her favour your request (what?)
Whatever her people need and we can provide.
>Talk about wargames
>Talk about the chiefs

>>36225751
I don't think you need to worry about hurting anyones feelings on /tg/, the point was just that its up to us how well behaved our soldiers are, and recruitment standards, are a important part of that.

>>36225852
I would assume we step away for that for a bit.
And does she? I think she uses mainly power to control them. And we want to set her up as our avatar, they are going to worship her, and it goes over her to us.

>>36225852
Thats a good point, I had assumed we got with the avatar thing and have them worship her and draw over that, due to her being our twin and our paladin.
But we haven't actually clarified if its possible like that.
Is it Pally?

>>36225891
>And does she? I think she uses mainly power to control them.
She established herself as a goddess because it's a good method of control.

>And we want to set her up as our avatar
I don't recall anyone mentioning that, we just want to figure out a way to get DP from people worshiping her.

I was hoping we could go the twin goddesses route rather than goddess/avatar, if we do that.

>>36225706
>Be blunt and to the point
It makes me a big stick to hit the LoLs with. If you could get DP from them you would. (Yes they are the LoLs, I feel no shame at this)
Then
>Offer her something to make her favour your request.
What do you want? (We've been using our speed dial alot so let's be nice) Look into trade as well.

>>36225908
>>36225920
It's possible, yes

Exactly what *type* of Goddess you want to pretend to be is in a later vote.

For now - almost any set-up will work.

>>36225920
>I don't recall anyone mentioning that
I did actually, when I brought up first the idea of drawing DP over her followers.
I don't think it makes a difference to us if its Goddess/Avatar or Twin Goddess, but she is not actually a goddess, so I figured, metaphysical, she might count as a sort of avatar is why we could draw DP from her, since I didn't think paladins can do that.

>>36225956
I just prefer the appeal of having Twin Goddesses of War and Peace, and I think our sister would be more amenable to that plan since it would leave her on equal footing with us.

Just to point out. Instead of reasonable half-demons some of whom might not be the best choices. We are now recruiting worshipers from incredibly chaotic Orcs, Ogres and Beastmen. Just to throw that out there.

>>36225986
Definitly, if that works there is no reason not to.
The issue was just that she is not a goddess, so I was worried it might not work like that.
If it does, then lets go for that.

>>36225997
We are not actually recruiting worshippers. We are drawing power from the worship our twin already gets.
Demon-blooded have a innate tendency to evil due to their demonic blood, orcs and beastmen don't so the comparison fails.

>>36225997
>reasonable half-demon
We had this discussion, people with demon blood have a tendency for evil or malicious actions.
Orcs, beastmen and ogre are mortals and therefore not anymore inclined one way or the other, their society alone makes them like that, their society can be changed.

>>36226039
>>36226018
huh... now I'm curious about whether that is the case. You'd think if they were neutral their society would tend toward something besides murdering the shit out of eachother.

>>36226064
Lets be fair, they really aren't any more or less chaotic and violent then tribal people in reality were. Its pretty neutral.

>>36226084
>then most people in reality are
fixed it for you

>>36225997
>some of whom
No, the point was, all of them would not have been the best choice.
Those were the guys we would have recruited.
The "best choices" are the guys we are already recruiting over Gendric.

>>36226099
True, but you knew what I meant.
Orcs and beastmen and such are clearly based on similar societies that existed in reality without innate tendencies to good or evil.

>>36226084
They have been eating each out of hunger but that may just be a human thing to get upset about.

>>36226129
People commited cannibalism all the time in times of need. Its not even that uncommon.
People also commited cannibalism also without need in the past.

>>36226116
I just want to say. I wasn't going to vote for EVERYONE. But I figured taking it down a step would have given us a significant amount more people with those people still being good enough to be contained with discipline and a firm hand.

Orcs and beastmen do tend towards evil, for cultural/religious reasons rather than genetic ones.

I.e. their culture is big on might makes right, that some people (weak ones) are property rather than people and they worship mostly evil and malicious gods.

Your doubles followers are currently mostly evil.

Innately beastmen and orcs are violent and stupid - which doesn't mean they're evil, but that they tend towards those sort of actions - which are more likely to be evil than good.

Properly led they can be neutral, or even good.

>>36226039
We also had the discussion that society and how they're raised are far more important and that judging people for their blood is bullshit.

>>36226129
That's more a reason to try and help them than condemn them. Poor bastards.

>>36226147
>and that judging people for their blood is bullshit
Sure enough, which is why saying that recruiting chaotic orcs and beastmen is worse than recruiting half-demons doesn't hold up.

>>36226129
Thats really not that uncommon or inhuman to resort to cannibalism in hunger.
I mean, their cultures emphasis on strength and all that probably made it happen pretty fast, but humans did that, still do sometimes, its more a sign of desperation.

>>36226160
Oh no. Its not worse. Its just not very reasonable to do one but not the other. Especially when we would be creating an army to fight against people who want to destroy all life.

>>36226143
oooh interesting. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity as always Pally.

“I’ll be blunt” you say to her “We need to talk, in private”

She nods and says to Sofia “Take over” and then leaps from the tower, soaring across the battlefield. You hear Sofia’s voice carrying clearly across the valley in which the combatants are slogging through the snow “Worthless maggots!” she yells “Look skyward to see the honour your Goddess shows you - for she wishes a closer look at your pitiful efforts, do not disappoint Her!”

Below you the mock battles take on renewed vigour as the two of you soar across the battlefield.

“So” she says “the two of you high above the combat in the biting cold wind “What did you want to talk about?”

“When we go to Hell” you say “I need more power – and for that I need more worshippers, I thought, since you have so many, we could come to a deal.”

The two of you fly along in silence for a while, then she says “What sort of deal?”

“Iron” you say “or gold – whatever you need.”

“Right now my forces need food” She says wryly, you cringe inwardly at the thought of buying food for so many.

“How many do you have?” you ask “followers I mean?”

“Fifty thousand combatants” she says “perhaps another twenty thousand non-combatants.”

Yup, food for seventy thousand will set you back quite a bit.

“Besides” she says “How will this even work; I’ve pretty much convinced my followers I *am* a Goddess – you want to demote me to high priestess and I’m going to have to kill a few thousand unbelievers.”

>Twin Goddess (identical? Or War and Peace? Other twin theme?)
>You be the Goddess, I’ll be the avatar (or high priestess)
>I’m the Goddess, you’re the avatar (or high priestess)
>Other (what?)

Incentives and attempt to convince her coming after this is decided

>>36226143
I hope that one orc warchief wants to be a paladin and has musical tendencies

>>36226180
No, they want to enslave all life.
Okay, but seriously now.
The comparison simply doesn't hold up because we didn't refuse to recruit any demon-blooded, we already do that.
It was about recruiting a specific section of demon-blooded we already know don't meet our standards.
No one wants to give our blessing the the orcs and beastmen that are evil. We just leave the reforming of their society to our Twin and get DP for it we can use on both our behalf, since she can't.

>>36226180
We wouldn't be able to do anything that would break the Angel of Vengeance image if we had recruited in Drache.

>>36226199
>Twin Goddess (War and Peace)
I'm assuming that it being an option means that it would work.

>>36226199
>Twin Goddess
There are pleasent and warm storms in summer, but there also violent and destructive ones, that works pretty well if you ask me.
Not so much "War and Peace", more a harsher and a more gentle aspect.

>>36226199
>Twin Goddess (identical? Or War and Peace? Other twin theme?)
I like the twin idea

>>36226243
>I'm assuming that it being an option means that it would work.

Yes

>>36226199
>Twin Goddess (identical? Or War and Peace? Other twin theme?)
You use to look like me anyway, spin it as you making yourself more suitable for what they need/are/whatever.

>>36226199
>Twin Goddess
I don't think "Peace" would work very well with us, nor would it be very appealing to the orcs.
They already saw us smack them around with thunderstorms. So a more wild and a more serene works better.
Both powerful and capable of destruction, just different, one more merciful, the other less.

>>36226217
>>36226243

We've taken the very best of the best. I don't think that it would terribly bad if we lowered our standards slightly.

Regarding the Angel of Vengeance image I don't see how thats really a problem. Its not like it would be a problem to make it known we aren't cool with being a self righteous prick. And besides, we are already recruiting from Drache anything those recruits know can get back to Drache already.

>>36226199
maybe instead of twins they are different aspects of the same goddess? like, Blue used to look like sireyi so it could also be easily said that she (sireyi) was ordered away and blue was put in her place.
probably a stupid idea but I have so few I just wanted to share it

>>36226301
I figured thats what was meant by twin honestly. we are the same Godess just two different "personalities"

>>36226199
Liking these a lot.

>>36226288
>>36226255

>>36226296
It would be, because we had reasons for our high standards. We can't just constantly lower our standards assuming nothing bad happens because of it.
The main issue is really the possible effect it can have on Drache and Elahis efforts.
We need to start thinking more about how our
actions affect other people.

>>36226301
I assume otherwise it would be Twin Godesses.
So currently we are one godess, just in two shapes.

>>36226311
>>36226335
The initial pitch was twin goddesses, I assumed OP just dropped the 'es'.

Personally hate the idea that we'd be the same goddess but with different bodies for different aspects.

>>36226296
>Its not like it would be a problem to make it known we aren't cool with being a self righteous prick.
Gendric has been trying to convince people of our possible benevolence and mercy for years and it doesn't seem to work.
Its not like there isn't anyone working on our image in that plane, some people already understand how we operate, its just only a small group.
It will grow, in time.

>>36226358
I assume the Azure Empress would hate the idea too.

“I though perhaps twin-goddesses” you say “chaos and order, destruction and healing, that sort of thing”

She nods slowly “Yes I can agree to that” she says “puts us on equal footing.”

“I have arranged with Ellahi” you say “to buy food from Drache – I could ask her to buy more for your armies, but you’d need to share the cost.”

“I’ll bear the cost” she says “if you agree to *my* terms”

“Which are?” you ask warily

“Ryzan” she says “had the power of a god loaned to him, that’s what I want – if we are to be twin goddesses, then we share your godhood.”

“I don’t even know if that’s possible” you say, shocked.

“Ask Velya” she suggests.

A short conversation with your Goddess later and you know how to share your power with your double – she will not be able to gain deific power on her own, you must grant her power, and once expended it is gone until you grant her more. You can also forbid her certain uses of your deific powers, should you so choose – preventing her from anointing her own paladins for example, or making her only able to anoint priests and paladins of you, not her.

What is your decision?

Share Deific Power? (amount in next vote)
>Yes
>No

Food?
>No food
>I’ll pay for it
>We split the cost (how?)
>She can pay for it

Once the votes are in there will be a Fellowship roll, DC decided by your offer.

>>36226451
>No

>>36226451
>Yes
She would bring pretty much all of our followers, and it would be completly on our terms.
>She can pay for it
Only if she actually has that wealth without having to plunder anyone.

>>36226451
>>36226482
I'm much to worried about some sort of failsafe by the Lords of Life to be perfectly honest. In addition to worry over whether she'll actually continue to reform.

>>36226451
>Yes
I don't really see the downsides, if she misues it, we could always just not give her DP.
>She can pay for it, her part, to be sure

>>36226504
Actually our divine nature is what freed her from the Lord of Life. So thats really unlikely.
No matter how good they are, they aren't divine.

>>36226451
>Not right now, maybe in the future
The whole reason we're doing this is because we don't have enough Deific Power for the trip to Hell and are trying to get more. It's paradoxic to give away what little we do have.

>Split it (50/50)

>>36226451
>Yes
Watch it backfire hard in our face, but its too good not to take for Sireyi
>We split the cost (how?) She her share, we ours.

>>36226541
>It's paradoxic to give away what little we do have.
We can completly deicde how much DP we give her, its not unreasonable to just give her a little for now. Not to mention seventy thousand worshippers is a whole bunch of DP.

>>36226541
If we don't give her that, our DC will rise by a lot. I highly doubt we can convince her without offering that or at least to carry the complete food cost.
Which we can't really afford.

>>36226451
>Yes
>She can pay for it