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>>41873843
Google Doc with stuff from previous threads, including rule ideas and lots of random crap: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nqqdHsQFvM9lxLfD8mRE-1pGch4njY3vvegWdigTRUY/edit?pli=1

One of the basic mechanics would be the idea of size categories and scales. You have several scales, most notably sub-planetary (size of things found on planets), planetary (objects from asteroids to largest planets) and stellar (stars, from white dwarfs to hypergiants). Beyond that you have some even larger scales that probably wouldn't come up in most games.
Each scale is split into 8 size categories, which determine the relative size of objects and are important when interacting with things. Interacting with larger scales than the one you're on would be very difficult. A core mechanic would be the increase of your size category as you level up by consuming resources, with possibility of transitioning one scale to another (although this would be very difficult as the jump from one scale to another is a lot bigger than moving from one size category inside the scale to another).

Interacting with objects would be based on difference between size categories, ie. "must beat a DC of X to push an object that is one category larger than you". Whether you're pushing a car or a small moon wouldn't matter as long as the relative size between you and the object remains the same.

Rolls would work with stat+2D6 against a difficulty check. In some cases there could be an additional bonus based on your size. Stats would be in the range of 1 to 10.

Another important mechanic is the Empyrean Essence, which is the "mana" equivalent. You could spend Essence to gain bonuses to rolls and to use abilities. It would also be depleted over time, as you require Essence to sustain yourself. If it falls too low, there would be a risk of the Empyrean going into a frenzy and trying to consume whatever source of Essence would be at hand (which would include other PCs, so it's a very bad thing).

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>>41874145
Continuing on the mechanics.

As mentioned, Essence would be gained by consuming resources. The amount of Essence gained per resource might vary, to compensate some types being easier to get than others. Consuming Essence directly by killing another Empyrean would provide more Essence, but might incur the wrath of other Empyreans. Essence/Resources would also act as the xp-equivalent, as you'd also get points equivalent to a percentage (probably 10%) of resource you consume to use to buy new abilities or increase your stats. After spending a certain amount of xp you'd also advance in size category.

Types of resources would be:
Minerals (pretty self-explanatory)
Biomass (likewise)
Energy (heat, light radiation, etc.)
Spiritual (ie. souls or energy derived from prayer)

On character creation a PC would select one type of energy to feed on. This may also affect what abilities they can acquire. Alternatively, they could choose to be able to feed on all types but at reduced efficiency (only get half of each resource). Ability to consume other resource types could be bought with xp.

Abilities/skills are the part that probably needs most work. The idea is that there would be both passive abilities and active ones, with the latter requiring you to spend Essence to use on. Abilities could also have multiple ranks. They'd include things like being able to manipulate gravity, create energy shields, or be better at consuming things. Additionally you'd have skills, like being able to create megastructures or seed worlds with life.

In order to allow for a wide variety of different kinds of PCs, there should also be traits that you could select at character creation, such as "swarm/diffuse" (instead of a solid body, the Empyrean is a collection of smaller beings, or a diffuse entity, for example a Tyranid-style hive fleet, a swarm of nanobots or a cloud of pure cosmic energy), or "mechanical" (The Empyrean is a mechanical being, for example a giant robot).

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>>41874446
Fluff: As mentioned, the Empyreans gain their power from something known as the Prime Empyrean. Typicall this occurs by the way of a sub-planetary being gaining an "Empyreal Spark". This might happen due to some sort of experiment or ritual gone wrong/right or due to random chnase. Or maybe they were born with the Spark (perhaps all mortals have the Spark, but it is only awakened in rare circumstances). This begins their transformation into an Empyrean. They gain the ability to increase in power and size by consuming things, and their flesh starts changing into the cosmic matter the Empyreans are made of. The growth of this "proto-Empyrean" to a proper planetary-scale Empyrean is typicall rather fast (at least compared to the millenia or more it will likely take to transition from planetary scale to stellar scale), and usually rather catastrophic for the planet it occurs on.
Alternatively a being can also obtain an Empyreal Spark by the act of consuming a world. A nanoswarm that "grey goos" its planet might develop the Spark, becoming a sapient being with cosmic powers.

The Hunger, or the need to consume things and grow is an ever-present part of the Empyrean's psyche, but it needs not to define them. While some roam the galaxy looking for worlds to consume, others farm biomass on planets or in dyson spheres, or set themselves as gods of mortal civilizations and feed on the spiritual energy produced by their worship, and spend rest of their time crafting megastructures, exploring the galaxy, or even defending mortal civilizations. While largely solitary due to their rarity and distrust for eachother, they occasionally band together in small groups or societies for mutual protection and benefit.
Other potential plothooks include struggles between different cosmic beings or Empyreans with different philosophy, or some upstart mortals who take the example of Dr. Doom here and decide that what they have built, no god shall put asunder.

>>41874843
Things that need to be done:
The skills and ability system needs a lot more work. Pretty much nothing concrete is done on it yet
DCs for interacting with objects of various sizes.
Fleshing ot the mechanics for combat and interaction
Character creation (the idea from the previous thread was that you have 21 points to distribute to your stats, and a small amount of abilities you can acquire, but the details, and how the different templates/traits work would need fleshing out)
Bestiary (though we'd probably need a better idea on what average PC would be like first)
working out exactly how the resource/xp mechanic works (should different resources grant different percentage as Essence and xp, should Essence and xp be tied to each other so that the amount of xp you gain is equal to the amount of Essence you gain)

>>41875090

I feel sticking with some more abstract stuff might work.

Size categories is good for judging the amount of strength needed to move stuff around; something unusually light or dense might just have a trait that makes them act as size categories greater/lesser than indicated for those purposes rather than getting into kilos and actual weight units.

There's also the question of how abilities will scale with size or power. That is,

>Example has a generic Ranged Attack with a range of X and damage of Y
>Example goes up a few size categories, either permanently or by growth effect
>Does Ranged Attack still have a range of X and damage of Y?
>Do these traits "float" to whatever Size/Power scale the Empyreal intrinsically is at? Currently at?
>Or do they not float at all, and you'd have to spend points to upgrade/rank them up regardless?

Also, I think a lot of inspiration from GURPS Powers and Mutants & Masterminds could be helpful. Building a list of abilities and traits, and then having some abilities that act like GURPS Affliction, could allow for a lot of interesting builds like Afflicting abilities or negative traits onto enemies.

>Affliction (Shrinking) to pocket planets for later.

>working out exactly how the resource/xp mechanic works

I'm sorta in the camp that maybe Essence gained from actually eating should be divorced from experience.

Experience should be handed out in play for being in the session at all, or maybe for specific feats or something, and it can be spent around on attributes, abilities or skills freely.

All things an Empyreal eats gets converted into Empyreal Essence, but I figure a combination of feeding and gaining competency over their power represented in learning new abilities and figuring out how to maintain a larger size makes more sense.

>>41875880
>Example has a generic Ranged Attack with a range of X and damage of Y
>Example goes up a few size categories, either permanently or by growth effect
>Does Ranged Attack still have a range of X and damage of Y?
>Do these traits "float" to whatever Size/Power scale the Empyreal intrinsically is at? Currently at?
>Or do they not float at all, and you'd have to spend points to upgrade/rank them up regardless?

Temporary powers could have possible add-on talent that allows other powers to float in size with them.

Permanent size increases would need to be bought off then? Or would float to the next scale when the Empyrean jumps, but not increase solely with size.

>>41876732

I'm not sure what you mean by temporary powers?

And really it's the problem with whether Size and Power should be split into scales or not.

There might be Empyreans who AREN'T necessarily giant themselves, but whose powers, actions and other attributes - hunger included - fit the Planetary or Stellar tier.

And what kind of abilities float might depend.

An attack or power dependant on physical attributes might definitely float with size, but energy generation might not.

A melee attack power, or one based on strength, might float and be based off the character's Strength stat... damage resistance based on physical armor might also float as he gets much thicker with size.

But an energy attack may not float.

Even then, certain kinds of strength abilities might remain even if the subject is shrunk offensively - they might be smaller but still have the same level of strength.

>>41875880
>I'm sorta in the camp that maybe Essence gained from actually eating should be divorced from experience.
>Experience should be handed out in play for being in the session at all, or maybe for specific feats or something, and it can be spent around on attributes, abilities or skills freely.
>All things an Empyreal eats gets converted into Empyreal Essence, but I figure a combination of feeding and gaining competency over their power represented in learning new abilities and figuring out how to maintain a larger size makes more sense.

Yeah, I agree with this. The eating>growing bigger>growing stronger thing is appealing, but its difficult to manage in game. Making the experience a representation of control of their powers instead of raw power is a good idea.

Also, have we discussed using Stunts for allowing for asspull cosmic power usage?

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>>41876991

That came up the last thread, yeah, basing it on something like how GURPS Powers handles stunts and Using Abilities at Default.

Gonna upload those two pages like last time.

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>>41877150

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>>41877192
>>41877150

Actually, the earlier pages are also important... so here's a short .pdf with just the stunts sections that are relevant.

So, how would one go about statting Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann in this system?

>>41877759

I figure while that wouldn't be an Empyreal, it could be some kind of threat.

Spiral energy is basically bullshit exponentially increasing power that performs weird energy->mass conversions that threatens to eventually annihilate the universe with a hypermassive black hole.

Some analogue of it doing the same could be a cosmic level threat - if it destroys the universe no Empyreal can survive unless it hops ship out of it.

If an Empyreal manages to consume and contain the power, it could essentially boost itself to the Universal stage and beyond easy.

The best case scenario would - for Empyreals at least - would be to shut it the hell down and keep any one entity from getting that kind of power.

So TTGL would essentially be a construct powered by dangerously high levels of that energy, and capable of ridiculous feats of just about anything it can bullshit up at the drop of a hat.

Might as well even go so far as to call it "Rocks fall, universe dies." Spiral Power is in no way balanced for a game.

>>41875090
For the bestiary, we should pull up those old examples from the last thread and make some more in the archetypal fashion.

The last thread had a lot of organizations, but not much in the way of sample singular entities: Superheroes, Super-Scientists, giant monsters, single powerful entities comparable to an Empyreal or worse, etc.

>>41879982
If we're shamelessly poaching, Star Trek had lots of interesting space-beasts scattered around.

>>41879982

Living planets like Ego would be cool. Or world-boring creatures that feed on the cores of planets and are poisonous to Empyreans.

Or aliens that eat the energy from stars, and compete with Empyreans for food. Then there could be some kind of predator dragons that go in and out of black holes or wormholes. Maybe they're from another universe or something

>>41880175
There could be weird extrauniversal alien entities that try to spread their own universe's physical laws around, which are inhospitable to normal beings.

Maybe not even on the scale of gods or anything, just entities from a completely alien reality attempting to save themselves by moving to a new universe and essentially terraforming it's physical laws to suit them.

Having to push back or destroy their pockets of reality, or stop them from pulling off something as catastrophic as a phase change, could be the kind of threat Empyreals could handle.

>>41877263
Nice.

>>41880343
Another example of threat could be something exotic but universal, and possibly outnumbering the Empyreals.

Like, say, the Photino Birds from the Xeeleeverse. Beings of non-Baryonic Dark Matter that outnumber the rest of the universe something like 9:1 but largely do not interact.

Then again, if they are like the Photino birds and settle around the gravity wells of stars and engage in stellar husbandry, then large enough Empyreals will definitely earn their ire.

>>41880738
Makes sense to me.

>>41882526

Some kind of Non-Baryonic Empyreal counterpart to Baryonic Empyreals could make an exotic foe/NPC too; even if they cannot directly eat any baryonic matter, they would engage in manipulating it to produce conditions favorable to it, and eating all the dark matter could cause gravitational problems all over the universe.

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god, I love cosmic shit

>>41882966
Holy shit

Post more

>>41882966
>>41882966
That's the Galactus Engine from the Thanos Imperative - basically the severed head of the Cancerverse's Galactus weaponized into a massive engine of destruction. It kills nearly all the Celestials, Ashirem included.

As for the Cancerverse itself, it was an alternate universe where death itself had ceased to exist, so it was overflowing with life and breaking into other universes to keep spreading.

That idea could be a weird sort of thing for the Empyreals to deal with; it's similar to their endless consumption and growth, but in a different fashion.

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And here's a big group of the cosmic beings in Marvel.

>>41883907
Fucking rad

>>41875880
Maybe some ranged attacks could have a range based on your current size category. You increase your size, either by gaining enough experience or by using some ability to temporarily grow, and the range goes up.

>>41876860
>There might be Empyreans who AREN'T necessarily giant themselves, but whose powers, actions and other attributes - hunger included - fit the Planetary or Stellar tier.
Yeah, I've been thinking on how to model that kind of stuff. I think the simpes way might be a trait that makes you not increase in size categories (when moving to larger scale you'd always count as the smallest size in that scale, since interacting wiht things on larger scale would be very hard), which would have disadvantages (even if your strenght increases, the DC to interact with objects would not get easier), but could also have advantages (you're harder to hit, could gain some extra points for abilities to compensate, etc.). You culd still get "virtual size categories" as you level, that would make you count as larger category than you actually are for devouring things, or something.

>>41880273
That could also fit with the idea of having weird space anomalies that function as "dungeons". The PCs could go exploring such anomalies, which would radiate large amount of Essence and could potentially endagner reality unless the being inside them that maintains the anomaly is destroyed.

>>41876991
>The eating>growing bigger>growing stronger thing is appealing, but its difficult to manage in game.
I don't think it would be that difficult to make you gain experience by consuming things. It would fit the theme and give the PCs a good reason to go full Galactus mode. Though maybe size and power could be separate. There are after all being in the universe that are powerful but not very big, like Superman equivalent dudes. But I think getting BIGGER should be part of the core concept.

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I truly love the idea of extremely powerful/cosmic level games.

But the problem comes from scale; especially considering the size categories. They can't interact with mortals in any way? There is no way for them to shift down?

>>41885895
There was talk of a shrink self power, but I haven't been following the last couple of threads

>>41885895
Plenty of potential ways to interact with mortals.

>Telepathy of some kind. Purely words, whole-sensory. Active, in dreams, etc.

>For more alien Empyreals, some kind of simplified communication thing like in Close Encounters.

>Shrinking powers to put oneself at the mortal's level.

>Growth powers to make a mortal temporarily at YOUR level.

>Illusion or Construct abilities to create an Avatar of yourself at their level.

>Don't bother doing it yourself. That's the Herald's job.

Of course, language barriers could be a problem. Solutions:

>Technological universal translators
>Universal telepathy
>Mindreading (or ripping) a local to learn the language

The other problem I see with it so far is;

Would not every Empyrean just go for Worship? It seems like the most reliable and least 'evil' of all the type, though I am a huge fan of the original PREY game and so eating biomass is really appealing to me.

How about the looks; are the Empyreans planned to look like giant helmet people just like in the Marvel comics or are they more going to look like cthulu and other elder gods of chaos?

>>41886027
They might not all be omnivores or spiritual types.

Worship doesn't mean much when you're the kind who eats minerals, or biospheres.

As for looks: Very varied. The Spark may basically bond to whatever has sapience - or the potential for it - and mutate them in strange ways during their ascendence.

You could have grey-goo nanobot swarms that get the spark. Humans could turn into giants - maybe physical, maybe some kind of energy that wears armor much like the Celestials.

You might also get monsters, mineral-golem people, clouds of plasma, etc.

Lots of options.

>>41886027
While there's not much concrete work done with abilities yet, I think they could be tied to the type of resource you consume. So an Empyrean that feeds on spiritual energy may have different sorts of powers than one that feeds on biomatter, which may affect the choise in character creation.

Also, spiritual energy would be by far the rarest type of energy, as it requires not only planets with life, but also intelligent life. Finding such planets can be hard, and while you can obtain power from them without wiping out the civilization, I imagine the power you can obtain from worship is conatnat but relatively small gain. Unless you're worshipped on multiple planets, it would be enough to make you not starve, but not enough to replenish you Essence if you use a lot of powers. There might also be some range-lmit on it, so you don't get energy from worshippers taht are halfway across the galaxy, unless you use your Herald to bring spiritual energy to you.

Probably the easiest resources to feed on would be minerals, which could be obtained from almost any lifeless asteroid or planet, of which there are huge amounts in the galaxy. Energy would be easy as well, at least if you can drain power from strs even at planetary scale (since at that scale you could just draw power from a single star pretty much indefinitely).

The appearance of the Empyreans are supposed to vary. Even if we ignore the more exotic types like swarms or energy beings, I would assume that when a mortal being becomes an Empyrean, their flesh gets replaced by cosmic stuff and their form is altered to look like whatever they want to look like, either conciously or subconciously. Many might stick to their former mortal appearance except bigger (silly hat optional but highly recommended) because that's how they've always perceived themselves, but others might completely alter their form to fit their new identity.

>>41886203
Well, I disagree. I think being able to shapeshift to some degree should be a separate power, and not intrinsic. Further, some Empyreals may be compositionally locked in some way; an Empyreal that started as a disembodied mega-spirit might not be able to learn how to become corporeal, and one that is the result of a statue being filled with the spark may not be able to change it's underlying material from whatever it was built out of - or at least, can't change it from some cosmic ideal version of that material.

All I'm saying is that I think shapeshifting, illusion, composition alteration, and perception filters should be optional traits and in some cases locked at creation depending on what kind of traits you have.

Aw man, this has got me vibin' on an idea in my mindbrain.

My concept is an Empyreal that is Worship based and potentially starts off with only one planet. At the beginning you'd be mostly spacelocked or whatever, and you'd be at almost mortal scale. However, in order to defend your planet from other Empyreals, you'd be able to project an Avatar-Form from your planet, strengthened particularly by fervent worship by your followers.

Not only this, but as you help your followers spread across the stars, particularly faithful individuals (prophets/saints/invokers/paladins/what have you) would be able to draw on your influence in ways and spread your worship to other planets. You could help establish colonies in your name. You could inspire great works of art - I'm talking dead planets turned into monuments to you.

The degree of your interaction would vary, but the concept would be that your primary presence is in areas that your worship is strong or that your monuments/holy places/etc are established.

I'm not quite sure how this would pan out with groups of other players, however. Perhaps you yourself or a mortal follower of yours goes forth to wherever your GODLY INTERVENTION is needed and you can project your Avatar-Form (which, depending on faith levels, could be massive) there?

You'd be more limited in where you could be/mobility/etc. than others, but you'd have a tangible base/source of power/etc. besides "nom planet."

Looks cool and all, but I feel that in putting the players in that situation might lead to limited avenues for them to explore. Sort of like how a lot of high concept games like Continuum or Promethean don't work as well in reality as they do on paper.

There just seems to be very limited things for players to do. Go to planet, fight whatever wants to defend/eat planet, eat planet. And it's not just the power level, it's the scope of the PCs. They will be unable to interact with most mortal civilizations, and interactions between Empyreans just seem to boil down to squabbling over resources. There's also the worries of players being disconnected from their characters due to being asked to play completely inhuman creatures.

Even games like Nobilis, where players are literal gods, tend to place the characters in more human forms to allow them to interact and maintain some sense of connection with their character. It just seems like a Herald game where you play the envoy of an Empyrean has more plot hooks and more player agency than actually playing the cosmic being.

>>41886570
I will admit that's one of my concerns for this idea

>>41886570
That's why the idea of being able to change size has been bandied around. Alternatively, you could create avatars or assume direct control of your Herald.
Or while you would have little need to interact with planetary civilisations, interstellar ones could make sense to interact with.

>>41886436
I wasn't thinking quite shapeshifting, but when a being becomes an Empyrean their physical form can alter based on a number of things. Like the process of becoming an Empyrean could involve them turning to pure energy or fusing with the planet, or as their body turns into cosmic matter it takes a form reflecting their subconscious image of themselves. But unless they have a power that lets them change shape, that's the shape they're stuck with.

Ascension to daemonhood in Warhammer is supposed to work kind of like that. The appearance of the daemon prince is chosen by the ascending mortal, and apparently you have to concentrate pretty hard on it, so hope to the gods you don't get distracted by thinking whether you left the stove on mid-transformation.

>>41888346
Perhaps physical forms could work kind of like classes? I'm seeing one for being a giant, one for being a living planet, one for being a being of energy, maybe others.

>>41888976
I don't think there should really be "classes" in the sense games like DnD have them, but the idea is that there should be different traits you can select in character creation for such things, which would have certain advantages and disadvanatges. Like picking the swarm/diffuse trait would make you harder to damage by single-target attacks and harder to grapple, but more vulnerable to aoe attacks and such. While being a livign planet would mena you lack any form of limbs, but could have other abilities to compensate (increased mnetal powers so you can interact with things through telekinesis and telepathy?).

Not quite the same as classes as they wouldn't othervise limit your build. You could totally make a soul-eating robot, or a swarm of tiny planetoids that consume energy.

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This was posted in the last thread, but I think it's worth a reposting. It's a cartoon about Silver Surfer. There's a lot of cool cosmic things, and Big G himself features pretty prominently. A lot of the stuff the Surfer fights could pretty easily be scaled up to Empyrean scale, plus there are a few things that are a threat even to Galactus himself .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LRuuuOWkw4

Also, about the abilities, as that's the part of the rules where least work has been done, how large amount should there be? I think the simplest method would be to group them based on the type of resource the Empyrean feeds on, plus a group of generic abilities. So a spirt-eating Empyrean could get spiritual-related abilities (stuff like mind control, spiritual-based damage, bonuses to their Herals), while one that eats biomass would get abilities related to biological things (seeding planets with life, modifying and splicing genes to alter living things, something that lets them "evolve"/alter their own bodies). The general ability tre would have generic cosmic power stuff (grvaity-manipulation, blasts of cosmic energy and the like), plus things like size-changing, communication (which, depending on the Empyrean could be fluffed as telepathy or some universal translator type of thing), creating Heralds and megastructres, as well as abilities that assist in consuming things (giving bonuses to the roll to consume an object, and letting you pick additional forms of energy to feed on).

Could probably have multiple ranks in each ability, with increasing effect per rank (an energy blast that does D6+attribute damage could get an extra dice or a multiplier to the attribute score for damage, while an ability that gives you +X for a roll to consume things could give +2X at second rank and so on).

>>41883902

Pretty sure Arishem survived that.

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>>41891424

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>>41891444

>>41891424
>Even the alien perception of Galactus is purple and has a silly hat.

I quess some things are universal.
Also, is that a Tau in the lower left corner?

>>41873843
>Different types of Empyreans can feed on different resources, and the type of resources they feed on may have a big effect on how they act. For example, one that eats minerals can easily obtain resources from uninhabited worlds, while one that eats biomass needs to find worlds with life. However, instead of just stripping random planets of life, they could use their powers to cultivate and harvest life on planets, providing themselves a steady source of resources.
>Character creation (the idea from the previous thread was that you have 21 points to distribute to your stats, and a small amount of abilities you can acquire, but the details, and how the different templates/traits work would need fleshing out)

What "types" of Empyreans are there? Have any templates been discussed?

>>41891677

Dude, all those "faces" are the different ways the assembled aliens see Galactus as appearing. They aren't the aliens themselves.

Also, this issue predates the creation of WH40k by three years.

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For the bestiary, extra-planar Lovecraftian horrors ala the Many-Angled Ones seems like a good start.

>>41886570
You could probably use the same system except on sub-planetary scale to play as Heralds. I'd imagine that they have abilities broadly similar to the Empyreans themselves, just on a smaller scale. And instead of being able to replenish their power by consuming, they would rely on their creator providing them with Essence.

>>41891695
Nothing's really set in stone, but the distinct types that have been mentioned, and would probably need separate templates are:

The "standard" one: ie. single large being, ala Galactus (though it could just as easily be something non-humanoid).
Swarm/Diffuse being: instead of being oen large being, it's a swam of small ones with a hive-mind, or a being with a non-solid body (like a huge mass of cosmic dust or energy)
Mechanical/Artificial being: a giant machine, rather than a biological being. Could probably be extended to cover beings made out of rock, crystal and the like.
Energy being: Made out of pure energy rather than physical matter.
Living planet: a sapient planet. Lack of limbs might pose a proble for interacting with objects.
The "voreloli" (for lack of a better term: an Empyreal that does not grow in size, but still grows in power and ability to consume things. Weird space-bending stuff is likely involved.

Different templates should be combineable, for example a sapient cloud of energy would be swarm/diffuse+energy being, a sawrm of nanobots swarm/diffuse+mechanical, and Unicron living planet+mechanical.

Bestiary ideas:

>Entropic Invaders (extra-planar beings that seek to invade the universe and devour all matter; they despise Empyrean Essence, having no use for it

>Universal Unknowns (IE, Empyrean beings that predate all known records, may not have even started as mortals; their goals are a mystery)

>Gnats (IE, cunning mortals who are able to outsmart Empyrean beings, even threaten to take their spark and become Empyrean beings themselves. They zip around in spaceships)

>Numinous mortals (mortal beings who have amassed a certain amount of power (may be Empyrean, may not to the point that several working together could potentially threaten an Empyrean being on their own; can fly/teleport through space under their own power, may be worshiped by lesser mortals)

So for characters, od we want individual mortals? Other empyreans? Or other cosmic powered entities? I have ideas for each

>>41891722
I prefer discrete powers rather than V:tM dots and broad increases in competency.

>>41893597

I thought the idea was that the players themselves were Empyreans.

>>41893820
No no, I meant for NPCs, notable personalities and powers of the galaxy that players would likely bump into

>>41891722
That'd be a good starts, at least. More could be added later, but having some abilities would help with actually setting up how they work.

Trying to think of some abilities for each tree.

Generic abilities (can be taken by everybody):
Create Herald: creates a Silver Surfer-style Herald that can assist you. Having one would let you modify the result of random solar system chart and it could also give some kind of bonuses for combat and be used for other skills. Extra ranks would improve the abilities.
Improved Consumption: objects you attempt to consume count as one size category smaller for purposes of the DC to consume them. More ranks further decrease the size.
Size Alteration: Allows you to shrink down to a smaller scale, though at the cost of reducing your maxium Essence for the dration of being shrunk (you have to seal away some of your power to shrink that much smaller), as well as temporarily increase your size category by one. Multiple ranks would increase the duration of growth and reduce the Essence penalty while shrinking.
Empyreal Blast: an attack that converts some of your Essence into a blast of energy, dealing d6+Cosmic in damage. Further ranks would increase the damage (probably by adding dice).
Cosmic Armour: uses some of you Essence to create an armour (either physical, or an energy field) that reduces damage you take (increases you defensive stat by 1). Additional ranks increase damage reduction.
Consume Additional Resource: lets you select one additional resource type to consume. For an "omnivorous" Empyrean this removes the efficiency penalty from one resource type. Additional ranks let you pick more resource types.

Don't have much ideas for the other ability trees (Biology-, Spiritual-, Mineral- and Energy-based ones) yet.

>>41893901
A Darkseid expy?

>>41893597
>>41893901
All could be good. Though I would prefer keeping things a bit vaque for the Gm to fill in the spots. ie. more about example factions and groups rather than specific individuals.

Fleshing out the idea of other cosmic beings would be interestin,g as they would serve as ideal opposition to the Empyreans, being presumably of roughly similar power.
If Empyreans are powered by the cosmic representation of life/growth, you could have being powered by their polar opposite (death/stasis), and whatever other primal cosmic forces one can think, each with their own special ability (like how Empyreals' is the ability to grow to theoretically limitless power by consuming things).

>>41893901

Oh, gotcha. Then yeah, let's hear what you've got. I think all of those categories could work. Rival Empyreans, ala Galactus vs Celestials, uppity mortals along the lines of Reed Richards or Thanos, greater cosmic beings in the vein of Eternity... It all sounds good.

>>41894135

There were other suggestions made like The Procession - a bunch of Type III alien eccentrics who go around having "art" shows and littering planets with hyper-advanced tech and being a bunch of avant-garde douchecanoes letting people blow themselves up with their tech or rearranging moons into busts or models.

You'll have to check the last thread. Also considering how inspired by beings like Galactus this is, it's naturally for people to file some numbers off things like the Celestials and figure out how to increase the Pastel Hat ratio.

>>41894186
Yeah. Not having not!Watchers or not!Green Lanterns (ok, they are from the DC universe, but they still fit the concept) would be kind of wrong. Though obviously one shouldn't just make everything a direct ripoff. The not!Watchers from the previous thread, for example, while having the same basic concept (a race of cosmic beings who consider it their duty to observe everything occurring) had pretty different MO (unlike the Watchers, who never take action, they would directly intervene when events did not occur in what they considere "the correct way").

>>41894608

A Green Lanter/Nova Corp expy would be interesting if you combined elements of each, and maybe went back and mingled them in with the Lensmen some more.

>>41894770
That's what I went for when I came up with the Galactic Patrol. Right now I'm writing up some NPCs

>>41894608
Would there be a place for Fourth World style stuff?

>>41894770
That would make sense. Rather than directly ripping off one source, take inspiration from multiple thematically fitting sources and make your own version of the concept.

Would be in line with how character creation is supposed to work, as the idea is that you would have traits and abilities to let you represent various well known world-eating cosmic beings, but you could mix those traits to create your own version.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with using common archetypes, but straight carbon-copies are dull.

>>41891773
I normally think Lovecraft shit is overdone, but it fits perfectly here.

Actually, the pop-culture "big squid guys" kind of work a little better than the "unknowable cosmic horrors" thing in this context.

Cosmic NPCs:

Sol Invictus- little is known of this creature, other then of its massive size and power. Invcitus appears to be a brown dwarf star, travelling slowly but surely in a complex pattern through the galaxy. When it visits a star system, the star within it begins to change, its solar radiation shifting up and down chaotically as it begins to go through it's life cycle in reverse, radically altering the composition of the solar neighborhood and often in the process scouring the planets orbiting of all life. The Sol Invictus is not an empyrean entity- it gains nothing from this action- but it is clearly intelligent and is more then capable of defending itself, sprouting long tentacles of plasma that it moves with deadly and devastating precision.

Dyo- A dyson sphere, created by an ancient civilization that is now long past, wiped away in their adopted home by a terrible sentient pathogen. Dyo, existing at the time as a collection of AI that controlled the Dyson sphere's systems, had to watch as its people suffered, unable to do anything more then to close itself up to prevent the disease from ever spreading. Dyo's various AIs eventually merged together over the years as it floated aimlessly in space, becoming a true thinking, intelligent being the size of a large planet. Inspired by the plight of others and determined to never let what happened to its parent civilization ever occur again, Dyo now travels the galaxy, using its super advanced technology and weapon systems to help protect fledgling civilizations from interstellar threats

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>>41896981

That first one reminds me a bit of the adult Technarchs from Marvel.

>>41896163
>Actually, the pop-culture "big squid guys" kind of work a little better than the "unknowable cosmic horrors" thing in this context.

How so?

>>41897775
Is he Kree?

>>41896981
The Music: A creature that exists without a corporeal form, but capable of still influencing the material world. The musician seems to exist outside the 4th dimension, viewing time in the same way most creatures space. Its presence is always announced by music, even in the vacuum of the void. It doesn't often communicate but its actions are generally obstructionist. It dislikes Empryeans for some reason or another, and will attempt to hinder them, though never out right attacking them.

>>41897793

Yup. Probably the most notable Kree character in Marvel.

>>41898119
I could tell because he was dressed like a buzz lightyear character.

Kree are not that bright.

>>41897947
Kor-Rag-Na, the conqueror Worm- a space faring creature, speculated to be either a bioship of unknown design or a creature not of this galaxy, it seeks out planets inhabited by living, intelligent creatures and then releases a torrential rain of spores onto the planets surface, infecting the beings below and turning it to its will, using them to collect fuel and resources for its massive body, in the process usually killing a large part of them from exposure, over work and eventually dehydration or malnutrition. Once the conqueror worm has what it needs it leaves the planet, leaving behind the survivors. Those who haven't been killed by this point slowly begin to mutate under the influence of the spores, their minds reverting to a savage, feral like state.

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>>41898297
>Kor-Rag-Na

>>41898297
Think the name could use some work, but...

This would be neat if Empyreals are at risk of getting infected. The worm having control of one and making it overwork to get a bunch of resources for it would be an enticing boon for the entity.

>>41898297
I could use some help figuring out some more cosmic entities.

So far all I have ideas for would be called "the unknown emperor," who is secretly manipulating the strings of hundreds of thousands of smaller empires, but I'm not sure what that kind of creature would look like or what it would be power set wise

>>41899224
It's formless. The form it appears to be to mortal eyes is that of a symbol of regal authority. To humans of European culture it would look like a crown.

>>41899224

In 1231 AD, a mongol company was riding across the steppes when a freak wormhole opened in the sky above them. Men, horses, and the accompanying followers were pulled into the vortex. The wormhole flung them through the depths of space, bombarding them with strange cosmic radiation. The result was:

THE COSMIC KHANS! Clad in neutronium armor, leaking X-rays from every pore, they ride their celestial steeds through the void, pillaging in the name of the Lord of the Thousand Suns!

They broke through the Great Magnetosphere Of cj`Aina, defiled the Quantum Sanctuary of the Nuns of Soorzam, ravaged the Vercullian dreadnaught fleet, and laid waste to the Threvonium Mines of Altak-Ur by unleashing the tesseract entanglement plague! Whenever they sally forth from their secret grazing grounds in the dense, swirling eddies of the Chinggisid Nebula, the galaxy quakes.

>>41899860
Silver Age as fuck.

>>41899860
When the first space faring creatures made their way towards the galactic center, they found not a super heavy black hole as had been originally theorized but a structure. A structure so massive that several smaller black holes use their gravitational fields that hold it together, twisting and folding the space together. Knowledge derived from study of that structure indicates that it is a prison, of what and for why remaining a mystery.

>>41900142

I just love the idea of giant mongols with Eternity-style patterns on their armor and kirby dots in their eyes riding through space and pelting passing spaceships with arrows.

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If you guys haven't read it, Majestic: The Big Chill is a good cosmic-level story.

>The story is that Mister Majestic is one of a small band of immortal beings who is left at the end of the universe. The final stars are literally winking out as this group of ceaseless wanderers try to find someplace to go, something to do. Majestic is one; another is Eucrastia, the final vampire (a Moore creation, I believe); the Wandering Jew; a strain of syphilis that inhabits the body of one of the immortals (!); and so forth.

>In doing a wee bit of research about it, I found some opinions indicating that some people feel the story cribs a bit too much from two classic sci-fi stories: "The Last Question" (Isaac Asimov) and "The Nine Billion Names of God" (Arthur C. Clarke). I've never read either story, though I'd heard of both. You know who I bet had read both stories? Alan Moore. I'd wager that he was assuming plenty of people have read both, and that those people would recognize that he was playing with some of the concepts from Asimov and Clarke.

They aren't Big Guys (for you), but it seems like the same type of stories we'd be telling.

>>41901126
I want to say that, a year or two ago, this got storytimed on /tg/.

>>41902372
If I could find it I'd do it again.

>>41899860

Maybe they're conquering the galaxy one planet at a time, trying to find Earth and establish it as the capital of the Cosmic Khanate?

>>41893924
Making the abilities entirely tied to what type of resource the character uses might be too limiting, tbh. For some resources coming up with enough abilities could also be hard.
I think it might be a better idea to make the ability trees themed around resources, but accessible to anybody. Maybe a bonus if your chosen resource and ability tree correspond.
Not sure about exact abilities, but for the style of each tree I'm thinking:

The "biology-themed" tree: creating life, healing, modifying your physical form.
The "energy-themed" tree: blasting, abilities to reflect or absorb energy from attacks.
The "spiritual-themed" tree: mind- and soul-affecting abilities and things like clairvoyance (essentially the more subtle "magical" tree, with the energy one fulfilling the role of fireball-throwing).
The "mineral-themed" tree: control of magnetis, creation of weapons and other technology, maybe something like transmuting matter? Not sure about this one.

>>41905317
I think it might be better to split the abilities up less based on resource and more based on effect or theme.

>Energy Manipulation
>Matter Manipulation
>Transportation
>Etc.

>>41905485
Yeah, that migth be better, but thre would be an issue with deciding how many ability trees there should be. Having a set number based on the resource type might be easier.

Although, it might be because I've been playing a lot of Morrowind lately, I'm thinking you could do something similar how schools of magic work in TES. You've got 6 schools based around different effects:
Destruction: your basic fireballs and lightning bolts, but also things like poison, reducing stats and abilities, and damaging weapons and armour. Basically most forms of offensive magic.
Alteration: mostly utility effects based on altering the properties of things. Shield spells, levitation, water-walking, unlocking things.
Conjuration: conjuring up weapons and armour and summoning various creatures.
Illusion: pretty self-explanatory. Invisibility, mind-affecting spells, making yourself harder to hit.
Restoration: healing, boosting stats and skills, increasing resistance to elements.
Mysticism: Pretty much anything that doesn't fit somewhere else. Teleportation, spell-reflection and absorption, health- and stat-absorption (differs from the Destruction version in that the effect is temporary but grants you the amount of health or stats you take from the enemy), soul-trapping.

>>41902639
Maybe it's still in the archive?

>>41905485
>>41905860
Along those lines, maybe something like

Energy Manipulation: energy blasts, energy absorption/reflection etc.
Matter Manipulation: abilities related to shaping and transmuting matter.
Space Manipulation: abilities related to altering the fabric of spacetime. Gravity manipulation and space compression would go here.
Spiritual Manipulation: abilities that affect the mind and soul. Telepathy, illusions, mind control etc.
Life Manipulation: abilities related to shaping living things. Creation of life, healing, various biomancy style abilities.
Probability Manipulation: divination, abilities that let you reroll dice or force enemies to reroll theirs.

I don't think transportation needs its own tree. The Empyreans are assumed to be able to move interstellar distances by default, and stuff like making wormholes can fall under Space Manipulation.

>>41873843
Interesting... Very interesting! Yoink!

I'e wanted a system I can use to have my group actually play as full-blown olympian-style gods for a long time and this fits the bill perfectly! Or it will with a tweak or two.

"Destruction" abilities should be understood as universal. Simply put, there's always a way for a cosmic being to commit mass annihilation with whatever their actual purview is. Life can "positive energy plane" explosion anyone, fundamental forces literally go singularity or nuclear, and so on.

Rather, any actual "destruction" sphere should go conceptual with it. Anything can destroy, but an entity "of destruction" at that level starts affecting shit like sympathetic connections, concepts, communications, death, and so on. For most things others already do it's bringing a hammer for a scalpel's job, but creative use of ending shit can allow some rather impressive results, such as rendering a favored acolyte immortal for the forseeable future by massacring its various moments of death or something.

>>41907639
That seems good to me. Covers most bases.
Now we should just think of 5 or so abilities for each tree.

>>41904774

Maybe for the first hundred years or so, but they gave up on that a while back. Then, for the next couple of hundred years, they were just having a good time, pillaging the cosmos. Now, though, they've decided Earth isn't enough. They've seen the vast breadth of the galaxy, and it has left them wanting more.

They will tolerate nothing less than universal conquest!

>>41886910
I just feel like a Herald style game has way more potential. The Silver Surfer is a far more interesting character than Galactus because he directly interacts with the people that are about to be doomed, while still operating on the cosmic level and interacting with the physical concepts. He doesn't have any personal interest in having planets get eaten, it's just his job to find them, which can set up conflicts. He gets to see things from both sides, unlike Galactus, who just sees planets as food. Silver Surfer makes an active choice to do what needs to be done, whereas Galactus doesn't really give a fuck and just eats shit because he's hungry.

Not going to tell anyone they're doing it wrong, and the concept is cool as fuck, but if I were to design the game I would probably have players start at Herald level, with the end goal being to accumulate enough power to become Galactus level.

At that world destroying level, I just feel like players would be too disconnected from what they're doing, both because the scale is just way too big (after eating enough planets, you stop thinking about it) and the PCs are so powerful as to remove the feel of improvement. You start out as the biggest dogs in the universe, so there's less of a sense of gaining power. There's also the issue of having less plot hooks and dramas to work with, since a Herald would have to answer to his Empyrean while being far more involved with the civilizations being destroyed by it, rather than being detached. Hell, having the end goal of killing your Empyrean somehow to end the destruction of entire civilizations seems like a pretty basic character motivation. What would even motivate an Empyrean besides baser needs?

It just seems to me that the Empyreans themselves are cooler as NPCs than as PCs.