First off would have to determine whose successors they are and what they did to get themselves thrown out of the Imperial fold.

>>42889010
It's like you crossed a checklist of generic good-bad guy Renegade chapters or something.

>>42889010
some renegade space marines who haven't fallen to chaos still attack the imperial forces in order to gain supplies like the IG might have bolter rounds for heavy bolters or grenades or autocannons

They would have to be a long way out from anywhere the greater Imperium thinks is important.

If we are going for a self sustaining civilization with the Marines then we are going to need at least one world with a high enough tech and industry base to keep their things working.

This means Mechanicus. The Mechanicus aren't part of the Imperium, sort of. They exist as a sort of on sort of off again fiefdom that likes to pick and mix its independence depending on if it can exploit tax and legal loopholes. Like the Isle of Man.

So the Mechanicus could be happily around doing their thing and not giving a single fuck. Or there could be a fringe sect. Not full Dark Mechanicus, fuck no. If you went full Dark Mechanicus you would be drowning in Skitarii before you can say "oh my Cogs and Sprockets!" Instead you could have Tech-priests who fell from grace for political reasons or reasons of theological interpretation rather than going full 8 points and pointy bits. Or they could be a far flung priesthood of the Engineers Guild.

Then you will need at least one planet with a fairly large population. Creating a space marine is a body expensive process and they go through a lot of people. 1 in 5,000 is considered acceptable so you are going to need, at barest minimum, a 5,000,000 pool of potential recruits at all times. And thats not including the number of people needed to keep the civilization running, healthy and strong.

Point is we are going to need at least one previously well established world with infrastructure and a lot of distance from the nearest imperial thing of importance.

>>42889797
Well it couldn't be a fully fledged and functioning Imperial world because something like that going dark would raise too many eyebrows, their homeworld has to be off the charts to keep it from being invaded.

Maybe an old colony that was largely destroyed, and is not kinda in a post apocalyptic setting after kinda pulling itself together? And yeah a fringe mechanicum sect but not totally heretekal... yet...

>>42889640
Probably go after some of the more acceptable targets, but they're certainly trying to not become a big enough threat to really be hunted down.

>>42889132
Nah. Most 'good guy renegades' didn't do anything wrong, it was just some inquisitor being a dick.

These guys are actually guilty of doing things that got them kicked out.

>>42889863
they probably go after an imperial forces with wargear they need like plasma or melta weapons

>>42890108
Maybe, though they really should try to avoid pissing the Imperium off enough to hunt them down, and they still see themselves to some degree as Imperials.

Kinda like the Soul Drinkers in that regard, realizing that they're set against the Imperial government but still loyal to the Imperium's people.

>>42889010
Rogue Trader Marines.

Chapter Master finds out that he is he sole heir to a previously forgotten Rogue Trader lineage. After taking a brief moment to ponder the pros and cons of service to the Emperor V. Untold Riches, he quickly relaunches his families dynasty, and recruits his chapter to follow him for wealth and glory.

This Rogue Trader Dynasty/Chapter is no different from any other Dynasty, save for the fact that they boast a full chapter of Space Marines among their number. They are just as likely to trade with the Tau as with the Imperium, just as likely to enslave a world as to liberate it, and just as likely to purge a Xeno as to recruit it.

All the while, they fully operate within Imperial Law. As bearers of a Writ of Trade, the chapter is fully entitled to the same leeway as any other Rogue Trader. However, many in the Imperium, including most inquisitors and all other Space Marine chapters, find this change in occupation to be a total betrayal of the obligations of a Space Marine, and view these Marines with just a much disdain as any other renegade or heretic chapter.

>>42889010
So basically you are describing a warband/group of Alpha Legion Marines.

>>42890417
no legion exist

>>42890405
This has been done under a different name actually.

>>42890417
No not at all.

>>42890752
Really, what chapter?

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>>42889797
>>42889863
>>42890405
Combine all these three maybe.

A world that has been in a 500 year war with Orks out on the northern galactic edge. Part of a small stellar cluster out where on one side the stars get ragged and the chill winds of intergalactic nothingness rend the soul. On the other side its Orks for many a brutal green light year until you find the lights of civilization.

World abandoned as a lost asset by the Imperium and claimed by a bad reputation chapter. They don't particularly want to hand the legal right to that old colony over to a bunch of suspected apostate marines more for the worry about what they will do with it than the feeling of its loss.

Chapter gives somewhere approximating between 0.72 and absolute 0 shits about anybodies opinion on the matter. Or any matter for that matter.

Chapter Master "discovers" that he is the distant but closest heir to a long thought extinct Trader Dynasty and, with his suspiciously wet ink writ of trade, claims the derelict orbital station as salvage, waits a few months for the next ork raiding part and fights them. He then claims the planet under rights of conquest from the Orkish Horde.

Planet isn't all that brilliant. Fuck Hueg swaths of mildly irradiated ground big chunks of ground that glows in the dark, dust in the upper atmosphere and the planet seems to be just starting to creep out of some sort of nuclear winter.

Ruins of quite impressive cities and the occasional high tech nuclear bunker with a distant branch of the Mechanicus still holding out. They have been on the planet since early M28. They split off from the mainline Mars Mechanicus pre-Imperium for reasons of theology and haven't been on happy terms since then.

The local mechanicus are quite happy the Marines have turned up as they keep the orks off their lawn and they can start fixing shit. Locals are happy because shit is getting fixed and they have help fighting off orky raiders.

>>42890860
There was a thing /tg/ was working on called the Free Company that was basically exactly that, a bunch of renegade space marines working with a Rogue Trader license.

Check the archives.

>>42891052
Eh, personally the Rogue Trader thing makes them a bit too legitimate in my opinion, they're supposed to be renegades operating outside the Imperium.

But the other stuff sounds good, a world once devastated by war and fallen into disrepair, maybe lost off the Imperium's records due to Administratum fuckups and now claimed by a bunch of renegade marines.

Honestly a big thing behind me wanting to do this is because I like the feel of chaos warbands but would prefer to play or fluff something at least semi-loyal, but I love the idea of a fully integrated force of marines and human soldiers.

So what should they have done to get stricken off the approved records? Mind you that 'having slightly weird traditions' is enough to get some chapters declared heretics by stupid inquisitors.

Maybe as OP said they were trying to grow beyond projected size? Now that they're off on their own they could really start working on that.

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I like the idea of them making their own gear to some degree, could give them a cool aesthetic.

It's not that hard to make helmets and some other bits for power armor, so something really unusual could be cool, developing a non-Imperial space marine look.

Always liked the gasmask and goggles look of the plague marine helmet, something like that could be cool and also fit in with a post apocalyptic homeworld

>>42889010

Like The Soul Drinkers but with better luck?

>>42891910
Sort of yeah, in that they succeed in running off and having their own planet with an industrial base and recruiting pool.

Still not really a good situation but they're not a slowly dwindling bunch of people cooped up on a ship either.

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>>42891690

For what they did wrong maybe they completely ignored the divisions as put down by the Codex. They went to war with their own bands of humans and small fleet directly under their command. They were, in effect, acting like an Imperial Army expedition force from the days of yore.

This pissed a lot of people off. Every single Guilliman chapter, most other chapters, most of the Inquisition and almost the entire Administratium were pissed off. That's a lot of people.

They were told to stop it. They refused. They were told. They refused. They were told. They refused.

After putting down a rather large Chaos uprising and being in no shape to realistically resist they had their shit taken off them and sent on a Penance Crusade and told not to come back for 100 years. In that time they were forbidden to recruit or take a world of their own.

They have done this, the Inquisition have found out and its now only a matter of time until judgement is passed.

Also like
>>42891849
Said.

They are now making their own armour. It looks a bit different as it is not quite of the official Marks. It is not in the old STC data-banks but isn't quite tech-heresy as it is make of STC parts and constructed by ordained tech-priests. Both tech-priests and armour design are therefore of question legitimacy and if judgment is unfortunate will be more rope to hang them by.

Also they have started their old codex violations again because fuck the police.

>>42892312
I like this, told to fuck off and repent but used the excuse to fuck off and rebuild and claim a forgotten world as their own, maybe hoping ot still prove how good they are.

Maybe they found some old records from the Great Crusade and organized themselves along the lines of the old space marine Expeditions because they thought it sounded a lot smarter than modern chapters?

So they find this abandoned world that's been totally written off, most of it is full on Fallout levels of wasteland and ruins, land and conquer the various warlords who live there and claim that as their new homeworld.

>>42892817
A lot of the little warlords didn't even need to be fought.

They had been holding out for three thousand years. Handing down stories from elder to child, being told that one day, one long overdue day, the Imperium was going to come back and reclaim their world. They just had to hold out.

They would occasionally get a visit from off course traders, missionaries and prospectors from the Imperium so they knew that the Imperium was out there. One day they Guard would show up and they would welcome them as long lost brothers. One day.

Then HOLY SHIT IT'S THE GOD-EMPEROR'S ANGELS OF DEATH HOLY SHIT! Those who kept the old stories alive, and those too impressed to do otherwise, swore allegiance as soon as they marched into town.

It was a few years until the Mechanicus would open the doors to them. The Mechanicus had actual records rather than old stories and knew that not all Space Marines were virtuous.

>>42893014
Yeah this sounds pretty solid, a bunch of dirt covered irradiated locals looking up with adoring eyes at their new saviors and tragically unaware of the fact that they've become the base for one of the more dumpy and disliked chapters.

Probably slowly change their chapter from within too, once that mindset is taken hold in the lower ranks.

Anyhow these guys need to be properly established as the chapter they were before we can figure out how they develop. Who should their founder be, and what are they like? Name and colors?

For colors I have an odd desire for either kinda drab apocalyptic brown or gunmetal.

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>>42893290
Gunmetal Grey sounds good.

If you are going for stark have it just grey. No trim, no rank designation and no insignia of any sort. Grey suits of armour, worn and stark. Maybe they will stick the Aquila back on their chest if favorable judgement is passed.

They might wear ragged brown robes over the armour.

Scouts generally wear brownish rags. In the case of the scouts its not a uniform so much as it is to keep the dust out a bit and as marines they don't much care for the frills in life.

For progenitor I'm thinking Dorn. They developed a Black Templar mentality but took it too far and didn't have the historical weight to pull it off. Also the characteristic stubbornness.

Current Chapter Master is a warrior-scholar. It was his idea to go back to the Crusade Era organization after reading about pre-Primarch military structures. Believes that current strife they are in is a trial by ordeal of sorts. Once the Imperium at large sees his successes with this organization others will revert to it. Oddly enough he never broke the 1,000 battle brothers rule. Possibly he knew how far to push his luck.

For name I'm thinking something with Crusade or Knight in the name.

>>42893596
Sounds good, I like it. Basically trying to pull the same shit as the Black Templars in a different way but they haven't been around since forever and friends with everyone so nobody stood up for them.

I like the armor idea, these are poorly equipped post apocalypse marines in feel, no neat and trim robes, dusty brown rags. Helps keep the blowing dirt and dust out of the joints of your armor, the techpriests have enough to deal with as it is without you needlessly giving them more maintenance.

Their human auxilia should have an Armageddon/Krieg feel I think, dust coats and gas masks.

Knights of Thunder? Dunno for a name, though not Crusade, don't want to make them so Black Templar it seems like a ripoff.

>>42893847
Sounds good.

They could be harkening back to the old days of the Thunder Warriors as the Emperor's first super soldiers. History has erased their flaws.

What should their patch of space be like?
Any ideas for recurring opponents?

Hope this thread is here tomorrow. need sleep.

>>42894066
Well I'll try to keep it bumped, maybe someone else will be interested. But yeah, seems fitting for a chapter trying to recreate the glories of days past.

Well their world is basically Fallout with 40k flavor, right down to the giant green skinned super mu... Orks, which continue to make life hard.

Though as they become increasingly independent and renegade they might have some kind of relationship with Freebooterz or something. Dunno just a thought.

They've still got one intact orbital elevator though so that's nice, helps with maintaining their fleet.

The space around them should be mostly free of any Imperial settlement, they're so out in the boondocks most everyone back in Imperial space thinks this planet was wiped out millenia ago and have it listed as a lifeless rock if they list it at all.

Probably a lot of orks, fuck all and more orks, some eldar pirates, maybe some chaos renegades and a few more orks just for fun.

>>42889010
Didn't this nearly happen to Space Wolfs during the Hersey?

>>42894212
Don't know, haven't read that far yet.

>>42894195
I'm imagining their fortress as being a derelict old ship that crashed about 200years ago.

They inhabit the reasonably intact bits and use the rest as a source of scrap metal to melt down as needed. They got one old fission reactor working and a shield generator.

They would have been happier with some sort of underground bunker but the Mechanicus are occupying them all.

>>42894429
Maybe the ground base of the orbital spire? Someone mentioned they would set up shop on the orbital elevator and use the half destroyed dockyard to house the remains of their fleet, so the facilities there would be a good pick, including rebuilding the old city around it to serve as their primary base.

They are right on the galactic edge. Psykers sometimes say they can hear the nothingness whisper to them.

So, Knights of Thunder, with lots of trenchcoat wearing gasmasked auxilia troops.

What kind of traditions would a chapter like this have? And any other distinguishing features about their armor? I like the idea of the gasmask like helmets.

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>>42895322
Now that I think about it the ragged robes would probably obscure a lot of their armor, maybe they wear them to help hide all the abnormal bits of armor?

Nothing too severe but homemade armor plating they needed to bash together to replace broken parts without having the exact right designs, not like they're designing new fusion backpacks or anything.

I think maybe a Maximus style aesthetic with lots of big obvious rivets and studs under tattered cloth.

Should they really be outcasts?

Are the fully declared Excomunicate Traitoris, or just regarded with varying degrees of suspicion and outright hostility by Imperial authorities?

Going all the way with this, they should have space marines broken up as squad leaders for a bunch of human infantry units. Also full squads of course but need to make sure that the human footsoldiers are a fully integrated part of their fighting force rather than a tacked on auxiliary.

>>42897184
That could work but I can't imagine a space marine would have much patience for the various weaknesses present in human infantry.

>>42897786
True, though at the same time having a massed legion of well trained troops would magnify their overall power, if slow down the speed of their advance a bit. Not like every squad has a marine in it, but enough to help shore them up, or a small squad attached to larger groups of humans.

Imagine that human footsoldiers trained by space marines would be pretty good at their job, even if their gear isn't the best.

Distantly separated company or chapter of one of the Traitor Legions. Came back out of the Warp post-heresy.

"Uh, Horus did what? The Emperor is where? Oh, fragg..."

*scrubs paint furiously, fucks back off to the fringe area they mapped without reporting what they found*

>>42897912

"Hey guys, we're back, wanna guess what we found?!"

"Um, yeah, never mind. We're going to go back and look for more of it. Catch y'all in about five thousand years..."

>>42897912
They could totally be Iron Warriors now claiming to be Imperial Fist successors because proudly trumpeting how much they love being sons of Dorn is their last insult to their actual Primarch.

Those who know now that their real origins hate him with a burning passion for how badly he fucked up their Imperium.

>>42897957

Shit, for every chapter we think may have been organized out of loyalist remnants of Traitor legions, there are probably three company-sized elements of each that just dropped off the radar as "missing in action". If they had geneseed and enough medical support, they could still be perpetuating out there.

Then again I am convinced the Silver Skulls were cadred by Dantioch's loyal Iron Warriors and Guillman covered for them in the Scouring period by claiming them as his own. That IW skull logo of theirs? Come on...=)

Anyway, instead of trying to be a new unit, this hypothetical bunch of orphans just fucked off back to some nice place they found and now cannot report.

>>42898169
I actually really like this angle.

They try to keep a relatively low profile, laid low for a long time trying to rebuild their numbers and fix up the nuclear wasted world they claimed as their new base, and then just kinda showed up one day fighting for the Imperium using the old legion Expedition tactics of combined arms with human footsoldiers.

They've been isolated for a while and being technically minded they developed some custom power armor bits, not an entirely new mark but new helmets and pauldrons and such enough that it's distinct to look at.

It even fits that they wear lots of ragged robes and tabards over unmarked ceramite armor, because they're trying to make it really hard to identify any distinguishing markings or research who they are or where they come from.

Most importantly, they never let anyone know the location or even the existence of the world they call home.

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>>42898286

Or some Crusade era Rogue Trader, one of the disenfranchised Old Terran nobles that Big E gave a ship, a warrant, and kicked off the planet with a platoon or so of Astartes headed out into the Big Black for a long time. Eventually they found a Dark Age of Technology paradise world, like the planet of the Genetically Engineered Jenna Jameson Clones or something.

Pic related from when she was still young and hot.

After a LONG delay, as in "Oh, shit, what year is it again?", they resumed mission, only to find out the Imperium as they knew it was deader than Chloe Jones, so they just decided it was easier to stay gone.

>>42898501
Nah I like the Iron Warriors route better.

They already have that 'embittered old fucks' thing going for them and have now fused that with Imperial Fist stubborn pride, clinging to life on a desolated world out of the sheer burning need to say 'fuck you universe you're not the boss of me' every morning when they get up.

And maybe, just maybe, prove to the whole damn Imperium that they're still the big damn heroes around here who are GOING to save the day even if they're griping about it.

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>>42898564

I like it too. Still, sometimes I think some early Crusade weirdness would liven up the grimdark a bit. That's why I normally go for Sixth. I need the humor.

>>42898992
Nothing wrong with that, what exactly about a detachment from the most bitter of old Legions living on a dusty, nuked-out world and claiming to be loyalists from the legion that hates them the most strikes you as funny though?

Though I really like the image of a space marine wearing a robe of brown dusty rags and having armor with lots of rivets and obvious studs and scars. Maybe two spikes on the front of the gauntlet like knuckle dusters?

>>42889010
You would enjoy the Soul Drinkers books. They meet all of your suggested criteria except for 4, based on what I have read so far. I highly recommend that you specifically check them out.

>>42900112
I'll be certain to.

I'm not super familiar with them but I know the basics, not exactly what this is shaping up to be but still awesome.

Hopefully we can get more discussion here tomorrow, I was suddenly too busy to contribute much.

>>42897912
>>42897957
Whether they actually are or aren't IW spawn or sons of Dorn is irrelevant.

They believe they are Dorn's kin where as their detractors are trying to claim they are Iron Within, Iron Without.

Hopefully this is still here in the morning.

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>>42898992
>humor
>what is wheat

Because hives don't have texts or eBooks or radio or vid or schools or computers.

>humor

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In the sequel to Space Marine, Titus was supposed to be excommunicated from the Ultramarines and spends the game as a renegade, and in the third game he was going to found a new chapter of chaos-resistant marines.

For the Knights of thunder I think they should specialise in close quarter combat due to lack of ammunition for their bolsters, they could use combat knives or some kind of mace made from scraps that they find on the surface

>>42901726

Gimme a break, my 40K images folder doesn't have a lot of funny shit in it. Get your ass to the Long Lost Planet of the Genetically Engineered Sasha Grey Clones for some R&R.

>>42902462
Well they do have mechanicum people working for them, they're not totally broke. They just have a hard time getting their hands on the really fancy stuff, but the standard wargear is generally not a problem.

>>42901783
Please anon, don't torture me with what could have been.

Space Marine was too good to die, would happily pay for a sequel that was just more story and gameplay with the same engine and assets with a few token new things.

Bump

Okay so we have some basics down, lost bunch of Iron Warriors pretending to be IF successors with a post apocalypse aesthetic and a fondness for illegal force organization schemes.

Make their own gear and don't give a damn about what the Codex says so they could be overstrength, nobody could know because their homeworld is a mystery so it's not possible to actually go there and count, and most of their campaigns happen outside of the Imperium's gaze, attacking their enemies in their own space and focusing on external threats rather than internal ones.

At least to a degree where they wouldn't be recognized and pinned down, how big do we want to make them? They have a whole planet of hardy survivalists to recruit from and enough mechanicum support.

Even if their mechanicum buddies are a bit on the off side as well, not hereteks but they might be deemed that if the Magos squints hard enough, political outcasts and the unfavored who probably work on their own projects behind closed doors.

Would give us an excuse to give them combat servitors and battle robots though, which could be kinda cool.

>>42902462
They have a disproportionately large number of assault specialists when the chapter is viewed as a whole.

3 companies are a pretty standard mix of types and operated much as codex companies.

6 companies worth of marines are spread across regiments of their Imperial Army. They are usually one squad per human company. They are usually assault marines but sometimes tactical marines.

They have 2 scout companies. One is the newb company. The other is made up of old fucks who are awesome scouts but would make mediocre marines. Both companies are usually spread about the other 9 as needed.

Specialists like tech-marine, librarian, chaplain and apothecary aren't officially part of any company and can go where they feel they are needed most.

>>42905061
I'm not against them having a close combat focus but what's the reasoning here? If they have issues with replacing their most advanced tech wouldn't it make sense to hang back and avoid getting chewed up?

And despite the majority of modern marines not knowing it, they are loyalist Iron Warriors so a more ranged tactical approach seems to suit them.

I like the bigger scout groups though, they need more recruits to fuel their illegal legion building, probably trying to recapture the glory days of the Great Crusade, at least at first, nobody but the innermost circle of advisers and leaders know their true history.

>>42904953
For size less than 1,500.

They arrived on that world ~250 years ago with only about 300 battle ready brothers and half junked ships.

They have done well so far.

Also they have a further 10,000ish regular soldiers of various cultures, equipment and training to call upon.

This is not including the garrisons and guards of the settlements.

Also most of the soldiers are busy. If no orks are around they still have the nations not under their rule to get in line.

They could drop nukes from orbit but they want the nations intact and functional so they are doing it the slower way.

>>42905123
I was thinking that the ones that serve with human soldiers get the humans to do the shooting, keep the orks in place and pinned down then the marines wrecking ball them.

Although that does sound more World Eaters than IW.

How many should know their origin?

Head Rememberancer and Chapter Master certainly. All the Captains?

Hump w should they view and treat the regular people?

>>42905187
The highest commanders would know I think. We need to establish what their culture and organization is like as well, do the Captains all form a kind of council? Any special ranks and offices?

>>42905154
Does that fit with the loyalist Iron Warrior origin though?

They can't have just shown up, and any group of space marines numbering in the hundreds would have little trouble subjugating a world that probably mostly sees them as saviors anyway.

>>42906541
Before they were a crusading bunch of people of unsure origin like the Space Sharks. Unlike the Sharks they did a bunch of stupid shit and spent too much time where people could find them.

They are trying to do it the "nice" way. Also works keep showing up.

>>42906508

For some reason I'm imagining them as eastern European.

>>42906639
Well inhabiting bombed out ruins, wearing scratched and pockmarked unpainted armor covered in rags and dust shrouds with a bloody minded determination to keep going on, with unsophisticated but brutally effective and reliable equipment does sound vaguely Russian.

>>42906690
I like it.

Just don't have them go full vodka.

I can see them being very severe.

They usually have two meals a day. Breakfast is some sort of vegetable paste, some mineral blocks and a fibre board. It tastes of nothing very much.

Supper is much the same but with a big mug of nutrient an mineral enriched broth. It looks and taste like ashes peat bog.

It contains everything the body needs and is economical to produce.

They are more about saving the people as a collective than giving much of a shit about individual people.

>>42906999
Yeah, they're not Slav-Marines but a bit of flavor could work.

Never go full vodka.

Being rather severe and harsh works well for them, the IWs were renowned for their harshness and spite, but they actually do care about saving people rather than just killing the enemy.

Would be surprising to some other merciful chapters, the Knights of Thunder don't go on and on about being compassionate and nice to everyone but their deployments into Imperial territory always have 'protect civilian populace' high on their To-Do list.

Thoughts on the robots idea?

I may or may not be reading over old Imperial battle bots and find some of the newer ones to be damn cool.

Considering that once you have the knowledge they could be churned out of factories, maybe not super fast, but could certainly offer a lot of power.

What's the KoT's overall goal too? Found a micro-empire out beyond the bounds of the rest of the Imperium, build a new Legion and prove once and for all they're still the heroes here and the old organizations were best?

And then, once the long war is finally over and they have won, kneel before the Emperor as his true and loyal Iron Warriors once again?

>>42907501
The Long term vague and nebulous goal of th chapter is to Great Crusade 2: Idolization Boogaloo.

The personal goal of the Chapter Master is to prove by example once and for all that the Codex was a mistake.

The goal of the Chapter high ups is to keep their heritage a secret.

The dream of the younger generations is to build Imperium 2.0 and have it generally lying succeed the current one with minimum bloodshed.

The goal of the planet the live and recruit on is to kill all of the orks.

>>42908991
>generally lying

Gently

Fucking autocorrect.

Also robots sound good. That could have been one of the the big reasons for the mechanicus splint.

The local tech-heads claim they aren't in violator n of the first commandment as the AI is only slightly smarter than a clever dog. Mainline mechanicus say degrees of heresy is still fucking heresy.

>>42908991
>>42909065
I like this all.

Imagine they would have a lot of friction with the Ultramarines. They don't hate the Codex, it's the greatest treatise on war ever written in human space.

But they're generally annoyed and pissed that the Ultras think they have the right to force their beliefs on everyone else and get upset if people decide to act differently than them, or employ different organizations.

The Ultras are too successful for them to think they're bad at their job, they just dislike how the Ultramarines feel they need to make everyone conform just because it works for them.

>>42909165
Yes, but the hatred is mostly one sided now.

Everyone saw a lesser known and battered chapter sail off into the inky black and never come home. Maybe the found a worthy end to themselves out there, maybe they fell totally from grace. For the most part nobody knows or cares.

They have met the occasional Inquisitor since finding their new home, mostly old as balls cynical bastards who they have managed to impress enough to get them to grant them extensions on their trial.

Not so much a thumbs up as a resounding meh.

The are worrying in their habits but they are also a long way away.

>>42909371
They probably still have a fleet running around doing the pennance crusade thing, just secretly being supplied from their hidden home base.

They're so far out there that nobody can check properly.

bump

What kind of robots are we talking here?

Shame we don't see old classics like the Castellan or something, though I do think that the modern 40k bots are pretty cool also.

Old Crusade era Iron Warriors feel like the kind of guys to have a Cybernetica force tagging along.

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>>42912895
Also am I the only one who actually likes the new Kastelan robots? Wish we also saw a revival of the old ones but I don't hate the new design either, it's kinda nice to see something other than skulls all over the place.

Might feel the desire to write a short story or something about these guys.

Any suggestions or requests? Sorry it's been so slow I keep falling asleep or getting the urge to play Dawn of War.

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Do we even have art or stories of Space Marines fighting alongside battle bots? They're a pretty cool part of 40k lore but I've never even seen them referenced anywhere but some Thousand Sons having ancient robots when they assaulted The Fang.

Okay so these guys need enemies, and just random mobs of Orks are boring.

Specific warlord? Tau being annoying? One overzealous Inquisitor who is starting to sniff out their true origins?

Would it be too much of a plot twist to say that as the chapter is over seeing rebuilding planet side, they stumble across a sealed vault that had a dozen or so preserved STC plans (mostly useless things like sump pumps and food processors) and evidence where a STC factory could be found (on planet or out of the system). Sure the Admin, inquis, and other chapters might not like this chapter, but this discovery would make the mecanicus LOVE them. The chapter head being the head of a Dynasty, but i dought he would have much wealth before... after finding these STC. Well, it would jump start rebuilding and rearming his chapter well enough.

>>42914528
need a foe? Eldar (or dark Eldar) pirates would do. That or Necrons from a near by system.

>>42915549
Jury is still out on whether we want to do the rogue trader thing. Personally I would be against it, for a chapter that's supposed to be flirting on the edge of being declared radicals getting a piece of paper reading "I can do what I want, Signed: The Emperor" seems to remove a big part of what OP wanted from them.

Well there ARE operating beyond the fringe of the regular Imperium, finding some lost colony with an intact factory could be entirely possible, and it would explain why they have enough political pull to not be ostracized completely yet.

>>42915779
Even if the rogue trader element has chapter head was removed, other rogue traders could be allies with the chapter and this would be a barging chip with them. The chapter would be the sole owner and be the ones to go to to have the STC products made. Any trader would LOVE to make a trade pack with them to be the only dealer in those goods. That and the trader can bring in needed goods the chapter would need as well.

>>42915913
That sounds more reasonable, most of the Imperium either doesn't know about them or is politely asked not to associate with them, meanwhile you have Rogue Traders who see the opportunity to get some good quality merchandise in exchange for artifacts and wargear.

>>42916098
Indeed, being stuck on the edge of known space, gear and goods are in high demand. Heck, just trading ONE STC to a high rolling trader could easily net a chapter a fleet of war ships they will need if they are short or have a beaten up rag tag fleet of their own.

>>42916170
Could also explain their ability to make their own variant of power armor, some old bits and pieces on blueprints, get a few interested Magi together and they'd be able to kitbash something together that they could make locally.

>>42916215
Wait, wait..I just got an idea. The world the chapter is taking over and found the STC plans, they also realize it was a vault/tomb for ANOTHER chapter master who fell in battle in ages ago and forgotten. The data in the tomb who that chapter could be nothing important, or to one or descendant of one of lost Big E's kids. (be it a known one or the two unknown ones). It would explain the direction the chapter has developed their variant of armor or guns. They where based on they the Son's design they found! The STC was brought there from earth itself!

>>42916381
Hmm, could be interesting though in that case it wouldn't resemble modern armor at all.

Their gear looks like some kind of off-brand version of modern power armor rather than something truly ancient and different, but something like that could work, a leftover from some unknown marine force that found it themselves and then left it here as the last remains of what they'd tried to do.

>>42916555
It could be a hybrid of both old and new. The outer armor could look newer, but the inside guts would be based on an older tech. (where as it could function better than modern tech. Maybe near Archeotech level armor.

An enjoyable twist could be that this dead chapter our chapter finds could show evidence where Vulkan himself was on this world and was the one who buried this chapter master. Man, that would be a nice juice tid bit to dangle over the Salmander's head. It would explain the high tech gear and STC being there.

>>42916850
That could be interesting, though let's not make them too powerful or rich or throw in too many of the usual discoveries.

>>42916555
would work with the idea of the population having a fanciful idea of the imperium they only saw the Great Crusade Imperium and have been keeping the dream alive in records that devolved into stories

though lets not go too crazy with these guys I would say they have STC fragments and the local Mechanicus has had to practically commit tech heresy too get something of value from them

>>42917061
Yeah, finding some useful tech and kitbashing it together, nothing too crazy but hey here's a design for an air filter and a vox system and some sensor goggles, stick it all together and bam workable helmet design.

>>42917106
That could work I think the stuff these guys have borders on the edge of giving any Mars Mechanicus Preists aneurysms nothing outright tech heresy but stands on the edge so fucking hard if you squint really hard could probably possibly be seen as tech heresy

Now here is another question. Just where do the Sisters of battle fit into this situation? Where would the IG regiments and/or PDF be worked in as well? Would the chapter drag some of them with us? would there be any of them on the planet when we arrive? Would any follow us?

>>42917322
>>42917322
if these guys are truly IW successors then the management would be distant at best with the SOB might give aid to an explorator fleet every now and then but largely they ignore them

>>42917322
None locally.

There's not a great amount of interaction with them, Sisters are a force for internal matters, Heresy and defending holy sites.

The Knights of Thunder try to avoid scrutiny by guarding against external threats, dealing with alien empires and exploring beyond the rim of Imperial space.

>>42917373
>>42917454
I like these two they don't really meet but if they come across the odd explorator fleet the fleet will be met by deafening silence

How would the chapter deal with psykers? Both in their ranks, and native born ones on the home world or other habitats? Accept to help train them or shot on sight?
>>42917800
Polite but cool then?

>>42917842
Psykers probably too useful to just do away with.

They seem to be developing a 'tough love' mentality with the overall flavor here.

They'd be gruff and distant, not wanting to talk to Imperial Guard troops they're fighting alongside, cold and aloof. Then a trio of them rushes into gunfire to carry back a wounded Guardsmen. Any words of thanks are met with a huff and grunt.

>>42917971
I like that, they don't feel comfortable using them but they feel that librarians are too important and useful to just do away with so they are kept at arms length though they are still battle brothers.

>>42918111
Yes, they put their faith mostly in the reliable power of their war machines, but also believe that only a fool would just throw away all the power and capability that a properly trained Librarian can employ, not to mention the benefit of regular human psykers serving in their human troops.

>>42918127
no I have this Idea forming for them, to outsiders they are gruff and aloof. but if anybody gets into their good graces they will more the entirety of the warp too give aid battle brothers will be hoisted out abandoned Regiments evaced.

>>42918204
which includes librarians sorry

>>42918204
>>42918225
Right, gruff and slow to trust, living on a harsh world and the remnants of the most bitter and spiteful of legions.

But they'd be the first to punch the Marines Malevolent in the dicks for their behavior and genuinely care about saving people, they just don't wear it on their sleeves like Salamanders or Lamenters.

>>42918263
That to me sounds a lot like if Wolverine (marvel comic character) was a Chapter, we are much like him. (maybe not with the super healing powers)

>>42918598
Sounds like a pretty good personality for a chapter to be honest.

>>42918651
If that is the case, wouldn't our marines prefer to use lighting claws as melee weapons? not sure on what the preferred range weapon yet.

>>42918772
Let's not get too carried away here.

>>42918772
Well if you had in breaking metal claws popping out of your fidts would you not use them? Nah if these guys are meant too act as a.dash of cold water too the imperium and the recruits are coming from a fallout wasteland I'd say we keep them at range and give them an emerging bias towards fast raids and cavalry not necessarily bike marines but something that reinforces a strike fast strike often ethos

On the whole Librarian thing.

They did away with the rank of Librarian by splitting it down the middle.

On one side you have Battle-psykers. A marine or human with psychic powers that have been adapted d to battle. That's their job. They don't tend record books as this would be a waste of their talents.

The job of keeping records was handed over to the remembrancers. An old rank the current Chapter Master resurrected.

>>42919674
Remembrancers should be human, would be a waste to put a marine, let alone a psyker, in such a role.

>>42919792
Exactly so.

Humans and broken down marines too mangled to war anymore.

>>42918651
>>42918598

I would say not. Wolverine gave a shit about individual people. These guys are more for people as a collective.

>>42889010
>They've basically built a civilization

>The chapter was known for being not particularly hateful of xenos...Inquisition had always been wary, keeping their eyes on them.
>And one day....they disappeared.
>New intelligence shows they went native and set up a civilization with various mixed xenos on a jungle planet, with their Chapter Master as their leader
>A single deathwatch team has been deployed to eliminate the chapter master....with extreme prejudice.

the horror.

They were stationed on the edge of imprrial space, their jobs being to both defend against xenos and other age of darkness civilisation still roaming beyond the reach of terra but also to control and check the goods rogue trader bring through their system.
Their chapter home was called the light tower by most trader as on the planet a smaller astropath choir was located being used to help traider find their way back but also to funnel them into the control station.
Over time the chapter often have sent many foraiging armies beyond the imperium, keeping their numbers steady by both paying a smaller tithe of geneseed and using some mildly heretical device to extract on of the two glads before sending people off.
Some centuries later they have easily grown beyond the standart size of chapter as many declared KIA or MIA companies just returned from beyond the veil.
This influx pissed most people off as this chapter was already a bit too friendly with trading xenos and a bit too far away from Terra, so the Chapter Master declared larger forces to be send out and to establish an outpost. (And mostly die out there).
Now I have two scenario how they turned traitor.
1. Against all odds the established outpost survived and thrieved. Many more are founded and the chapter prospered. This and the refusal to pay more geneseed tithe (Due to some chapter tradition) let them be declared renegades but both due to their own control of astropath and distance noone gives a shit.
2. The outpost establishes semi-sucessfully but require constant supply drops with more marines, equipment, serfs and normal citizien.
After some hard centuries the outpost have gained a some planets under their reign and even esablished their own choir but are still lacking in marines numbers.
Suddendly all supply stop and through rumors from trading rpgue trader over a long period of time they learn that a small civil war in their last chapter have killed the chapter master they were forgotton.

>>42921837
After the old chapter established contacts and demanded them to return they proundly and stubbornly refused declaring they rather die on their own terms then rejoin a chapter leaving them behind and forgetting them. (Being forgotten is a major thing in their chapter tradition.)
So this small warband roam beyond tge veil helping lost traders and imperial forces but only if they benefit.

>>42921837
>>42921879
Not a bad idea, but kinda conflicts with what everyone else was talking about.

Though the idea of them making outposts in uncharted space, looking for loot is interesting.

What sort of religion do they have?

Personally I think they would have omnissiah leanings.

>>42922748
we could also lift the split from this guys fluff out here on the edges of space the warp is thin it could take an extraordinary amount of time to come back meaning almost every company that they muster is drastically different and semi independent.

>>42924102
some omnissiah but they are still emperor worshiping imperials as far as any SM chapter is, it's just that nobody likes them because they are daring to be different in force comp.

>>42924120
Possibly, hailing back to their old Crusader roots with expedition fleets made to be semi self sufficient, cruising around uncharted space hunting for resources and bad guys to exploit and shoot respectively.

>>42924102
Maybe, go into battle with combat bots and need to maintain good standing with the local admech outcasts to keep their gear in working order.

>>42924152
Indeed each expedition coming back with tech supplies and veterans that will change a companies culture when they are re-integrated

though that is a good question what are these guys scavenging way out here in deepest space

>>42924190
Destroyed colonies, wrecked fleets, discreet acquisition of xenotech for their renegade techpriests to study and pass off as rediscovered knowledge from that STC trove that totally contained more blueprints than a space heater and minifridge no really.

>>42924210
thought the STC Pieces had to have all but been violated to make anything useful. because if they had full STC's then that would kinda violate the premise of them being essentially freindless because the Mechanicus would lobby like a mofo as payment.

>>42924254
Dunno then, they found a few old blueprints but nothing really worldshaking nor special, it's one of the only reasons they're not officially outcasts.

GAH! I'm way too late to this party. Loved all the ideas discussed here, but let me add something.

I have always enjoyed stealth-themed Guard regiments like Tanith (max rank in stealth, but light firepower) and Catachan (nearly max rank in stealth, but heavy firepower).

How about having the scouting, infiltration, stealthing, and sniping be the "less than glorious and honorable combat but still valuable contributions" jobs of the Guard contingent?

It also makes sense that a Chapter cut off from the infrastructure of the Imperium would not want to potentially waste good new Marines by putting them out into the vulnerable scouting role first.

>>42924866
That sounds interesting, and kinda a rebellion against the old 'corpse grinders' mentality of the original Iron Warriors who only saw their human soldiers as cannon fodder to be thrown at the enemy with no higher plan.

Scouts and sniper teams would be ideal, I can certainly see the guard being a little on the sneaky side while the marines are the more obvious and direct half of the force.

Any other ideas?

>>42924866
would definately work if they are the hit hard hit fast type sans bikes it's 25 odd space marines just ravaging your supply lines until they hit the source and then they salt the earth as best they can

>>42924866
That is an excellent idea.

Stalker/Metro/Death Korps looking sneaky gits.

>>42925328
Trained in skulking through blasted out ruins potshotting at orks, lasguns meant for accurate high power semi-auto fire, powerful weapons that favor the skilled marksman who knows how to pick his targets.

Let the Knights handle the up close and personal assaults, they're wearing power armor for a reason, mere mortal men hang back and keep a low profile, watching their superhuman comrades flanks with accurate fire.

>>42925410
that and provide on the spot artillery fire some mortar equipped chimeras trailing behind a marine force would do wonders.

>>42925821
That works, humans handling the second line support while the marines focus on the frontline service.

No marines running tanks, they think that's a waste of time, they have humans for that stuff.

>>42925965
yeah it's clear the human forces are meant too be either supporting the marines or a garrison force sometimes you might see grenadiers up amongst the marines but usually they are used to supplement the army and add weight too a push twenty marines though fearsome will do very little to a thousand orks now 20 marines and a fuck ton of human soldiers holding the line and supporting those 20 marines now that is something

>>42926072
Indeed, fire support, suppressive fire, encircling movements, controlling the tide of a battlefield and adding pressure with numbers and weight of fire, all things that Astartes with their usual small unit sizes have difficulty with.

>>42926113
I see the army being broadly split three ways mechanized battalions, light infantry for scouting battalions, and so called legionary battalions for the dudes hauling catachan level brass balls who get into the fury alongside the marines.

I dunno OP I like the idea of them being stuck on an enemy they think is of too great an importance for the Imperium to ignore, thus going renegade to pursue the fight. Or maybe some edict from some Primarch that would warn or guide them into acting outside the Imperium's will.

Having them raid guard supply lines, strike backdoor deals, or having things like Librarians or other Psykers controlling people of influence to help them would be neat.

I like these guys, leftovers of probably one of the more dickish legions turned real heroes trying to prove to the universe and themselves that they're loyal and true of heart.

>>42926255
I like them because if they are successful they would stand as a dash of cold water for the imperium. and well the imperium doesn't like change so they would be brought down hard giving them a timeliness I want to say

>>42922748
>>42924120
Didn't read the thread so my bad

>>42927129
no problem dude you still brought up some good ideas

>>42916381
This idea ruins the rest of the story imo.

>>42928340
yeah and everyone scrapped the rest of it and we went with yeah there were stc's but unholy tech heresy had to be committed to make anything of them and they were still useless.

>>42929253
Yeah, nothing super special but it at least gave them the ability to make their own gear.

>>42929966
some pieces of gear the local mechanicus also helps a lot in these regards say how would these guys run the planet deference to the leaders direct governorship or something else heck how do they rule themselves?

>>42930414
Well, probably a very close governing relationship, there was little here but scattered warlords, the arrival of the Knights of Thunder was what motivated the unification of the planet.

So any planetary government would have been built by them.

>>42930470
really it depends on how tedious we decide they find ruler-ship to be

>>42930504
They already work directly alongside human soldiers, so they seem to have a direct relationship and ability to work well enough with regular humans. So if they have that kind of patience then they probably can work fairly directly, or at least have their serfs do that.

Here is another thought that chapter might have to deal with. Either buried in a recently found lost vault on one of the world they add into their fold is a Titan mech (be it a known type or a forgotten/lost class). What would they do with it then? Hand it back to the empire? use it themselves?

>>42931527
eh we are shying away from giving these guys anything overtly powerful but if they did get a titan they would probably hand it over to the nearest forge world and get mad respect and not be a hairs breath away from being declared traitors.

>>42931614
Alright then. Getting titan out of the vault, moving enough to the surface, keeping it protected while a ship big enough and powerful enough to lift and carry it off is found, and getting it to a forge world would be a bloody hard campaign alone. With the Orks, eldars, and worse would do quite a lot to see that stopped or destroyed one way or another.

>>42931614
though we should ask about things like their weapons and equipment given their consistent though spotty supply situation we know they can hold down the basic kit what special weapons do they have and how has their close use of human supplementary battalions affect their tactics.

>>42931874
I remember from a thread awhile ago asking how bad it would be if a SM had to use subber guns from the lack of supply lines and backing. This might be one such situation.

>>42932145
if anything space marines would probably just substitute in ripper guns

>>42932145
>>42932409
Or heavy stubbed at the very least

>>42932409
speaking of ripper guns, What would be the odds of Ogryns being around in numbers for the chapter to use as supplement forces? Slap some heavy armor on them, some bonehead implants and they can hold up along side the SM in a fight. At least Ogryns are loyal to the bone to the Emp so not a lot of heresy there.

>>42932571
though these are probably only given to the green horns cause we've already established that these guys have bolters down heavies and stalkers might be rarer than in other chapters but bolt pistols and regular bolters should be a cake walk for these guys soo the new guys get the heavy stubbers and ripper guns in addition to bolt pistols or shotguns

>>42932708
jot absurdly high remember this plane has been abandoned for a crazy long time any orgryn that are still around are due to whatever population that are around breeding so what you get is gonna be small and inbred as hell so they might only be good as combat servitor fodder which would be stupidly rare

>>42932708
Remember they do have combat robots in support of them, probably a little bit rag-tag with lots of mixed models, but they do have them, probably have the right people to slowly, carefully make more k-castelan machines to support them.

>>42932769
Well, to be fair, the orgyns might become a new variant but likely still orgyns in the bottom line. combat servitors cost a lot of money and resources to make, but a living orgyn with a good ripper gun and some armor is much cheaper to field.
>>42933193
The combat robots are hard to replace from combat losses, but are likely used for the worse fights. The Ogryn can also be used along side the local PDF that can mustered.

>>42933706
even when those ogryns are dumber and have more health problems due too massive inbreeding because that was what I was getting at

>>42933737
Well once the tech base is rebuilt, the inbreeding health problems are likely less of an issue from a restoration of better health care. If the planet was a nuked out waste when it was found, the radiation would be a bigger issue.

anyway, once the breeding population expands enough and stabilizes, the inbreeding issue shouldn't be a problem anyway. Inbreeding does not always promote degeneration like offspring (like the things from the movie 'The hills have eyes') All of humanity once was at a genetic bottle neck as well. we turned out alright.

That also still brings up the point of Mutants and Abhumans. Yea, Xenos are still likely the main target to take down, but an isolated world that is coming back from a technological collapse might well have an infestation of the muties or an new abhuman sub species of humanity. how would the SM deal with them? Kill them all? Study them? Ignore them if they are not hostile and let the inquisition/admin deal with them?

>>42935184

It seems that there are already ogryn of a sort around. Dumb as rocks and twice as hard and utterly incorruptible.

I can imagine the chapter approving of them, so much as any chapter approves of abhumans. I can also see them conduct in breeding experiments. Trying to get an optimal mix of Ogryn and human. Like the Soviets and their chimp/human experiment.

Long term goal of experiment is perfect recruits.

So far they have had limited success.

Another type of abhuman they don't approve of is the night-stalker. Tall, pale, gangly, big black within black eyes, pointy teeth, totally sociopathic and they eat humans.

Human eating is an addiction, not a necessity. They can be weaned onto regular red meat. Even then they still crave old habits.

What can't seem to be fixed are the psychological issues. They are on the extermination list.

Is all the food on this irradiated hellhole produced locally?

If it is the most valuable thing on this planet is going to be uncontaminated ground.

Also what is the planets name?

>>42936586
Well radiation doesn't last that long, it would have long since faded to nothing, they could grow food alright. And we haven't decided on a name.

bump

>>42935634
I don't think ogryn crossbreeds would be very good recruit material. If you even can crossbreed them, and they're in enough trouble with the Imperium already without doing abhuman/pureblood crossbreeding.

>>42942224
That's why it hasn't been successful.

And it was done discretely.

>>42938257
Something Slavic sounding would be appropriate.

Does anyone have an idea for something Slavic

Bump

>>42943373
Czernosvet

"Black World"

>>42946900
Sounds appropriate, especially considering their old Legion colors.

This is an interesting concept, doesn't look like there's a ton of interest though.

Maybe next time we can make a thread just for these guys, outline the major ideas right from the start so people don't have to read through a whole thread to understand what was already written?

>>42946900
What would Grey Lands be?

>>42953398
seryye zemli

Wow I thought this thread died like a day ago.

>>42946900
>>42954264

Czernosvet is best option.

>>42889010
This is one of the more interesting ways to do Space Marines.

How many continents should Czernosvet have?

>>42958523
Glad you like it, loyalists are always fun, but sometimes it's good to skirt the edge of heresy, it's more interesting over there.

>>42957907
>>42959081
Unsure, maybe five or so?

>>42889010
so basically space marine outer haven?

>>42959570
Kinda, I suppose, don't really know about MGS lore though.

>>42889010

Why aren't the Ultramarines considered renegade? Surely the fluff has them controlling vast areas with many world paying them fealty instead of directly to the Emperor?

Seems like in the fluff sometimes you get away with shady shit and other times you get excommunicated.

>>42959415
2 around and under the north pole.

One trails off into an island chain that beefs up into another long thin continent.

Other one has an almost enclosed sea between it and the next one down. Is open to main ocean at both ends.

Final one is half buried under southern ice. Quite far from the other two more equatorial continents. When the chapter turned up it had only ogryn. Ogryn have now spread to other 4 and regular humans have moved south.

Night-stalkers were originally only found in the far north. They used to dormant through summer and hunt in winter when the no daylight gave them an advantage. They have since spread everywhere. The chapter rebuilding has led to a population increase which means more food for them and their population went way up.

Mechanicus vaults are.scattered.fairly evenly across most of the planet.

Axial tilt is a little harsher than Terra and as such the seasons are a bit more extreme.

The sun is larger but the planet is further away. Atmosphere is a bit thinner. UV and other radiation is slightly increased

make them as much antichaos as they are anti-imperial.

>>42959803
Oh certainly, they're not even anti-Imperial at all, just considered renegades with strange practices who have repeatedly gotten censure, but they're so far out and still kinda helpful so they're tolerated for now.

Are the robots theirs or are they legally loaned?

If they are loaned. Does that mean that they have to have a tech-priest near at all times or can a tech-marine do that job?

>>42962216
They've got mechanicum buddies, some of them are sorta outcasts but they have them, and some of them are leftover descendants from the original Cybernetica support force they shipped out with during the Crusade.

So they would probably have most of them be directly commanded by techpriests, but maybe a few with techmarine commanders, there was old fluff about techmarines commanding maniples of battle bots.