Basic thoughts about the end of the Great Crusade and the beginning of the Heresy period.

>Ullanor Crusade is declared by the emperor to counter the significant threat posed by the ork hordes led by Urlakk Urg.
>For the first time in the history of the Imperium, the three Warmasters are called upon to work as one and put an end to the alien threat.
>They don't work very well together, likely ending up with the loyalist Warmaster being pushed into a support role by his allies, the separatist Warmaster leading the majority of the troops in the primary assault and the traitor Warmaster handling the attack on Urlakk Urg himself, with the Emperor at his side.
>The egos of not just the Warmasters but the other Primarchs in attendance clash, leading to instances of miscommunication, friendly fire and ultimately the incapacitation of the Emperor, who is returned to Terra for the purpose of recovery.
>The Warmasters turn on each other, each placing blame on one another for the outcome, with the Separatist Warmaster (probably the one who is most in the wrong) eventually deciding to succeed the Emperor and turning a war of words and accusations into something far more physical and deadly.

>>53427490
What does Malcador do?

I think the big question for factions is why each Primarch decides as they do, as well as what each faction is meant to be.

>Imperials
I'm thinking they use the Ecclesiarchy in a major way, with Yochin as their propagandist. They espouse a monolithic state run as the crusade Imperium was, earning them munitorum support.

>RevSeps
They hold to the Imperial Truth or things that are close enough. Politically they follow the theory of Gyahdred and the implementation of Gregoire of smaller astartes run zones on the supposition that the size and scale of the Imperium results in inefficiency. Gyahdred was speaking of the purges of the Death's Heads, but it seems fate is not without a sense of irony. This local approach wins them the support of the planetary elites.

>chaos
Chaos is chaos. Marduk wants a dark empire.

>Politically, Moritarion, The Khan, and G-Man would have been Revs.

>>53427800
I'm not sure I agree on the Imperium bit. The loyalists never accepted the Emperor as a god, and I can't see Raj for example doing it either.

>>53427867
He doesn't need to. I'm thinking that Yochin inspires mass fanaticism and it's too useful in the war of succession to disrupt. By the time it's over, it's too late. The Ecclesiarchy is in power and you get a situation parallel to the OU.

I think we also get an odd scenario where the revs claim to be the true imperium.

>>53427867
Same for Pacha. Heck, if Pacha lives through the heresy he'd actively be against the Ecclesiarchy's less flavorful activities, particularly mass civilian sterilization/extermination.
And then, Pacha doesn't need a big, complicated reason. He's a simple man, and staying with his father is the thing he sees as correct.

>>53427966
Only that the Ecclesiarchy is not a thing in 30k. The emperor forbade any religion. He even censured lorgar for it.

The Ecclesiarchy rose only after the heresy, when no primarch was around anymore.

So it should not be a defi ing thing for the imperials

>>53427989
Aye, but what I'm suggesting is that particularly at the beginning of things, all three have equal claims to the throne. Even once chaos reveals itself, both the revs and the Imperials are "loyal". They're both successors to the Imperium. The difference is political and which Warmaster you follow, not a matter of being for/against the emperor.

I just got an idea for Separatist motivations.
If we go with the emperor getting knocked out of the crusade due to a battle it would cause quite a bit of chaos.
The Imperium might resort to totalitarian methods to maintain control and leave it in place even after things stabilize. This doesn't sit well with the guys who will become separatist.
At some point the forces on the eastern side of he galaxy stumble on an information cache from the DAOT which has information about human society and values during the golden age. Said information is what influences the Separatists to stand against both the Imperium and the heretics while also encouraging a more technology inclined mindset within the separatists.

>>53427800
Should have been a reply to this.

>>53428068
Except Yochin is a religious fanatic. He would be an incredibly powerful tool.

Let's role play. You're Je'Sha. How do you overcome your deficit man power? How do you tight the fanatics of Chaos and the Brotherhood that Gregoire has?
Yochin has endless cults of fanatical supporters...


>>53428083
I like it.

>>53428200
Proper food and rations that are actually edible could do a lot more for the average soldier's morale.
Fanatics don't make the best soldiers.

>>53428200

As was Lorgar.

Would Je'shan openly act against the emperors will? If so then he would be the traitor.

And as Anonymous said: food, logistics can boost soldiers moralr enough. You don't need fanstics. Those fanatics could even be counterproductove
What happens if some soldiers reject the belief of the fanatics? Fights and sinking morale in your ranks. Yay.....

>>53428225
>>53428273
Maybe? Gregoire already has the best guardsmen in the galaxy. And he has a manpower advantage.
The Imperium is going to go all Ecclesiarchy sooner or later, so I'm thinking it could serve a military purpose.

I'm thinking that fundamentally the only difference between the "imperialists" and "revs" is political ideology and location. I'm thinking they're both equally loyal.

>>53427800

The Mechanicus will now take the podium:

I see a problem.

We keep defining 'Loyalty' as if the Separatists are like Chaos and are actively working against the ideals of the Imperium and the Emperor.

However I think the reality is that the are Loyal to the Emperor's Ideology; It is the turn that things would potentially take post his wounds that would really push the members of the Sep/Rev faction to leave.

Again I envision that they have taken to making territories in what part of the Imperium they have, more akin to city-states that administer their territories but as a whole support one another against threats. They see that the Imperium is no longer an Imperium without an Emperor; and whoever takes the throne as unworthy as their father never named a successor.

>TL;DR Separatists are loyal to mankind but disagree with what the Imperium becomes.

>>53429208
>TL;DR Separatists are loyal to mankind but disagree with what the Imperium becomes.
Except Rokuten.

New AU? Nice. How often are these threads made?

>>53429351
Pretty much as soon as the Bump Limit is hit...so every day or so.

>>53429357
I'll be lurking, then. I'm interested to see where this one goes.

>>53429391
No worries, Been doing a lot of the Tech-Fluff/Unique stuff for the legions so help wherever you'd like

Symphonious Disciples anon here, I've been gone for several days, can someone give me the quick rundown on what's happened so far?

>>53430135
Discussion about legions in specific, stuff about the causes of the brother-war. Currently the model is that the emperor is put into critical condition at the peak of the Ullanor. They finish the campaign, but things go sideways rather quickly.
There may be some censures issued for violations of Nikea (which we're moving up in the timeline), possibly with the Symphonious Disciples unleashed to purge.

We're also discussing >>53427800

Actually the Disciples are pretty relevant to that conversation. Any thoughts on when they set up their cult and all that jazz?

>>53427256
Saw there was some mention of the Steel Souls vis a vis Seperatism.

I've written the Steel Souls thus far as plausibly going with any of the three factions, since it seemed prudent to do so while those factions were getting sorted out. It just so happened that most Legions naturally sorted themselves into Imps/Traitors, and few seemed to converge on Separatists, so now it seems there's an actual *need* for the Steels to go Sep. I wonder why that might have been.

>stopping the pussyfooting around

I was one of the few, if not the only person who raised criticism of a "separatist" movement as a general concept. 40k as a system is not well structured for such a concept to flourish without changing the "core essence" of the setting. For some people that's an issue, for others it's not. I've learned from other projects not to press my views too hard however. Note that I've gone mostly silent these past several days.

So yes, me as a person/author might not be a good fit for Separatists, since I'm either going to have to grab that whole group by the balls and grill their ideas until they feel plausible to me (which they will hate), or I'll have to be silent and say nothing lest I get ensnared into fighting an unwinnable battle.

Either way I will not be welcome here in short order. I have seen this before, both with myself and watching other anons follow the same pattern.

> If we're just going keep dancing around it with him really being the only voice against it, then idk wtf to do.

If this is how you feel, RaJobs, then here's two options:

I can also have the Steel Souls be the Separatist's Separatists, where they basically disappear completely into the Fringe, rarely interacting with any faction, Imperial or otherwise.

Or I can have them be deleted after Nikea, perhaps the Emperor decides their psybernetics are inherently dangerous and Lost Legions them, and then bow out of the project as gracefully as I can.

>>53427800
I think Mot Hadad needs a reason to go with chaos and not with the revolutionaries. Maybe he started doing daemonic shit before they even started thinking about leaving?

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>>53430382

Symphonious Disciples anon here. Hmm, dose zoggin' greenskins got da upper hand on empy? Interesting, very interesting... And I suppose the Emperor's incapacitation led to a succession crisis, which led to the Seperatist movement?

I'm thinking that Yochin's cult was extremely small at first, scattered across a dozen or two worlds surrounding Yozhin, when the Emperor lived and advocated for rationalism, but that when the Emperor was critically wounded, Yochin believed his defeat at the hands of the Orks was a punishment on mankind caused by a lack of faith, and martyred him, causing the cult to spread like wildfire.

Without the Emperor able to disprove it, it soon became a major religion, leaving the Loyalist Imperium divided between rational human supremacists that followed the Emperor's ideals and fanatical zealots that believe the Emperor was some kind of messiah, causing friction between the more rational and more idealistic Primarchs and Legions, though both are loyal enough to the Imperium they stay united, it could cause some interesting drama, maybe even some light skirmishes.

Hell, maybe the onset of the cult was the straw that broke the Separatist's back and caused them to secede, or at least was one reason they did so. I think a split between a secular and religious Imperium could be quite interesting.

>>53427771
Bang his head on a wall while trying to salvage the Imperium.

>>53430135
The Ogre of O-Kan has usurped the thread!

Guys, maybe the separatists can exist as a global faction of ununited Legions. Some may end united, but others may even start their own states and empires, much like the state city concept. If Emil doesn't like how the separatists thing it's going, he may join them, just to secede from them.

>>53430850
You're gonna have to elaborate on why exactly you think the Seps don't fit 40k, because as it is they don't seem entirely out of character to me.

>>53431207
The separatists could instead be an alliance or coalition of states fleets and organizations on the eastern half of the galaxy rather then imperium 2.0

>>53431354

A confederacy, as opposed to an empire? That sounds reasonable.

>>53430857
Idea: He goes with the Separatists to start with but ends up getting doubts as it progresses, to the point where he ends up getting seduced by Chaos.

There's a lot of potential mobility for legions:
>A legion starts loyalist and remains loyalist.
>A legion starts separatist and remains separatist.
>A legion starts loyalist and goes separatist.
>A legion starts loyalist and goes Chaos.
>A legion starts separatist and goes Chaos.
>A legion starts separatist and goes loyalist.

>>53430850
>few seemed to converge on Separatists, so now it seems there's an actual *need* for the Steels to go Sep. I wonder why that might have been.

Themes seemed to establish themselves over time.
The loyalists seem to be generally good-natured altruists (or as close to that as Primarchs can be) with vaguely religious themes.
The traitors seem to have a rather primitive theme, with four of the chapters being based of Bronze Age civilizations and one of them being tribal-themed. This is by far the most solid theme.
Finally, the separatists seem to have a rather strong focus on technology and/or extreme measures.

Out of all of these, it just strikes me that the Steel Souls would fit in best among the Death's Heads, Iron Guard and Pale Hounds. I find that much easier to picture than pushing them into the loyalists, especially if the Emperor rules against legions messing with psykers during the Council of Nivaea.

>>53431428
>A legion starts loyalist and goes separatist.
The Ogre Legion does this.
>>53431207
>>53431354
>>53431381
Yeah, pretty much my thoughts on it.

>>53431659
As do the Pale Hounds

>>53431303
I have a feeling this isn't going to end well, but here goes.

Human worlds breaking away happens all the time in canon. Entire regiments of Guard as well. Or even chunks of Battlefleets. The Imperium crushes separatists almost 100% of the time in canon. Entire Legions breaking away is theoretically possible, but now we have several conundrums.

1: The Separatists are an existential threat just like Chaos is to the Imperium. Chaos is driven back to the Eye in canon. A similar purge against the Seps would essentially delete them or make them irrelevant.

2: If this *doesn't* happen, then the Imperium must be far, far weaker than it is in canon. Particularly since proportionately, it winds up with only 1/3rd of its Marines, rather than 1/2 as in canon. 33% is significantly less than 50%. Also, they won't have nearly the manpower to draw from if the Seps occupy any meaningful territory. Canon Imps survive because Chaos only truly owns a minuscule portion of inhabitable worlds.

I have a hard time believing such a weak Imperium would survive Chaos predation, let alone Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids/other secessionists emboldened by Legions successfully breaking away/Any form of Goge Vandire shenanigans. It would almost certainly just keep shattering until *nothing* remained.

3: Assuming the Seps survive in some fashion, how? I mentioned before that they lack both an Emperor or a God to provide them focus and protection, no central rallying cry. A confederation was proposed but this is 40k.

Confederations eventually splinter, they rot from within, chaos sabotages them from without, and Imperial assassins take care of the rest. If not yoked together, 40k Humanity *will* diverge and crumble. And if you've decided the greatest leader Humanity has ever produced wasn't good enough, and you've decided that *your* opinions matter more, are you *really* going to listen so someone lesser for very long? And Chaos will always be driving those wedges further apart.

>>53431428
Perhaps the Forge Lords start out with the separatists, but then are shunned more and more as they use warp shit in their technology until they are forced to retreat to the Maelstrom.

>>53432002
It has been suggested that this AU could end up with the Separatists getting crushed and ceasing to exist, if that satisfies you.

>>53432002
So with regard to 3, I'm thinking the data looms of Gregoire increasingly take over. In time, it's basically a weird robot run mechanicum state.

>>53432002
This is 30k.let's handle the romance of the three warmasters first before we enter the crumbling 40k. (What you say is true and willgive the imperium inthe future a lot oft headaches. But first and Foremost we should handle the heresy.not Losing focus.one step at a time.

Besides: I spied a bit on the brotherhood of the lost and they have also three factions and it seems AS it they had put alot ofthought Ingo the concept. Sorry for thewriting.my tablet is crazy.


By the way: it all Chaos are so primitive the gunslingers might seceede from them..wildlings....tzt...;)

>>53432332
>if that satisfies you

No, because then that makes me the bad guy who ruined everyone's fun forever. You don't get to pawn shit off like that, lol. I'm pointing out hurdles that seem extremely difficult to surmount in a plausible fashion, not barking orders to be followed.

If that's how you see it, then I'd rather leave and let you be you.

>>53432405
Not really, I would understand the reasoning behind it and so would everyone else. It's Warhammer, dark shit happens and millions of people die every day. Nothing out of character about a third of the legions being wiped out for attempting a non-Chaos secession from the Imperium.

>>53432002
>1: The Separatists are an existential threat just like Chaos is to the Imperium. Chaos is driven back to the Eye in canon. A similar purge against the Seps would essentially delete them or make them irrelevant.
Not if the seps push back, because they're, you know, seven legions versus the Imperium's... Seven. Especially considering the Imperium loses its eastern worlds to the seps.
>2: If this *doesn't* happen, then the Imperium must be far, far weaker than it is in canon. Particularly since proportionately, it winds up with only 1/3rd of its Marines, rather than 1/2 as in canon. 33% is significantly less than 50%. Also, they won't have nearly the manpower to draw from if the Seps occupy any meaningful territory. Canon Imps survive because Chaos only truly owns a minuscule portion of inhabitable worlds.
>I have a hard time believing such a weak Imperium would survive Chaos predation, let alone Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids/other secessionists emboldened by Legions successfully breaking away/Any form of Goge Vandire shenanigans. It would almost certainly just keep shattering until *nothing* remained.
On the contrary, the three-way split means only 33% of the legions turn to Chaos. Besides, the Imperium has never been able to bring to bear even 10% of its forces against any single threat since the end of the Horus Heresy until possibly the Tyrannic War (which will initially be the seps' problem and not the Imperium's, assuming identical attack patterns)

>3: Assuming the Seps survive in some fashion, how? I mentioned before that they lack both an Emperor or a God to provide them focus and protection, no central rallying cry. A confederation was proposed but this is 40k.
>Confederations eventually splinter, they rot from within, chaos sabotages them from without, and Imperial assassins take care of the rest.
Are we talking about the seps or the Imperium in this case? Because every part of that, even the Imperial assassins, describes the Imperium.

>>53432002
What edglord mccoldsteel over here said.
>>53432362

If this question really needs answering for post brotherwar, let's say the separatists fall apart, some rejoin the imperium for the good of mankind, some become renegades because they prefer self-governance, and maaaaayyyybe one or two join the chaoa warbands.

>>53432333
Hell, if that's the way you're thinking, maybe just do it like this.

Malcador decides his friend Big E maybe isn't such a cool guy after all. The Fabricator General too, since Mars and Terra have a rocky relationship anyway (at best).

Instead of wasting away on the Golden Throne, Malc and Fabbyman cook up a way by which to pull Mars itself through the Warp to somewhere else, to build a base of power. (Emil would 5000% be on board to help with that, because deep down he would want to do something similar to move his own homeworld back around a parent star and fix what was broken. If you want motivation for Emil to join the cause *that's the biggest possible carrot* right there)

And then they do, at the worst possible time, right when Chaos makes their move. Perhaps Chaos even *assists* with moving an entire planet through the Warp, knowing that it will cause the Emperor an unbelievable amount of problems/butthurt. [TROLLING INTENSIFIES] as Mars literally just fucks off.

Maybe Malc survives, maybe the Emperor beats Chaos' ass, comes after Malc, fights Malc, both get killed since Emps is already weakened from Chaos, maybe FabbyGen also dies, there's a zillion permutations.

But then you have the 3rd rallying point to draw on that's neither Chaos nor the Emperor, yet is almost as significant in the lore as either. Mars itself, and the steady rallying of Forgeworlds/their troops/people from across the Galaxy. Then you can plausibly have technological superiority, but not without some restraint.


At least, that's one of the ways *I* see of jumping the hurdle without jumping the shark, by using canon resources as opposed to inventing things from whole cloth.

>>53432002
1: Chaos is driven back to the eye because they fractured. If the Seps A- stayed united B- Actually coordinated with one another and C- fucked off to the eastern fringe while the imps were busy dealing with chaos they may be able to escape with a decent number of forces and have enough time to dig in so they can resist the inevitable imperial retaliation.
2: our Imperium might be far more fanatical than the OU imperium, causing actual successions to be far less common/successful as the common man is far less likely to support these acts of heresy
3:It was previously mentioned that the separatists might consider themselves the "true imperium". If that's the case I can see some 1984 shenanigans going on where the Loyallists take up the role of Goldstein and act as the scapegoat for all the bad shit what happens to them AND retaking their birth right could act as a pretty great unifying drive for the people of Separatist worlds. Also if shit gets really dangerous it's possible people would rather stay safe than try to jump ship and risk getting eaten by sharks

>>53432515
I'd be down with that.

>>53432002
>>53432448
>Numbers
They're actually probably decently close. OU has 8 legions loyal, two of which have no successors. Here we have 7.

They'd also have 14 legions fighting nids, Orks, and other stuff.

>>53432362
>>53432494
Totally viable, but as I understand it, the goal is to have a romance of the three Warmasters going on. Let's not make a setting, let's make a narrative. If the Revs end up splintering, that's totally cool. Can happen in a few centuries or over a few thousand years, but we can kind of rp that out. The current plot point is one where we have three Warmasters going at it in a war for the throne.

>>53430850
Something as simple as "(not Separatists)" tacked on to the end of that TBD would have prevented this discussion and prevented you from potentially being involved.
Deciding what faction suited the Steel Souls earlier on would have prevented this discussion, since the factions have mostly been solidified for about a week now.

You've been active enough but you haven't actually made a decision yet. If you want the Steel Souls to be loyalists, make them loyalists and just put an end to the speculation. Lotus Eater gets no say due to being absent for over a week and if they get slotted into the Separatists, so be it. We'll figure out a way to justify it somehow.

It's just that we're ready to continue on to the next stage now and the only thing really keeping us back is one person who has absent for over a week and one person who refuses to commit to one side or the other, despite obviously being predisposed to not wanting to join one of those sides.

So can we just say that the Steel Souls are loyalist and get on with it?

>>53432654
>two of which have no successors
That we know of?

>>53432668
>Lotus Eater gets no say due to being absent for over a week and if they get slotted into the Separatists, so be it. We'll figure out a way to justify it somehow.
We should cut the legion outright if he doesn't show up. I do not want the slack that's plagued AUs since Hektor Heresy.

>>53432515

I wholeheartedly support this motion, if Malcador didn't perish on the Golden Throne, I could easily see him joining a technologically advanced Separatist Confederation instead of the Imperium.

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>>53432784
Or dying.

>>53432515
So having the Emperor's most trusted advisor that helped him forge the Imperium from the very start turn traitor and somehow teleport Mars across the galaxy to another location is more probable than previous suggestions?

>>53432515
>Malcador decides his friend Big E maybe isn't such a cool guy after all.
Why would he do that?

>>53432913
I was under the impression that Terra had the Emperor on the throne and a bunch of religious dudes in the Ecclesiarchy. Malcador says this isn't what homeboy wanted and buggers off to chill with the cool kids.
Malcador didn't betray the Imperium, the Imperium betrayed the Emperor.

>>53432913

It's not that out there, Malcador only supported the Emperor for his ideals, friendship, and sense of righteousness, if the Emperor was incapacitated Malcador would almost certainly stay loyal for some time, but once religious fanaticism and ignorance began to take hold, I could easily see him becoming disillusioned with the post-Emp Imperium and attempting to join the Separatists for the good of mankind.

>>53432924
Given that Malcador is a psyker, the most logical thing would be that something goes so heavily against psykers (probably events surrounding Nikea) that Malcador starts to question things. Also, people mentioned the Imperial Truth being a thing for the Seps. That seems like a plausible point of divergence for Malcador.

>>53432913
None of these things are particularly probable, but moving Mars provides a 3rd rail for the Seps to ride on. It's a big step, but with Mars' technology and Malcador's immense psychic power, it seems possible to me.


>>53432668
If you just need me to shut up, then fine. Steel Souls stay loyalist.

>>53432515
We do have many more psyker Primarchs than in canon. Maybe that could link to Malcador's actions somehow, since he might have a stronger feeling of involvement with the psyker Primarchs and what happens to them.

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Creator of Gregoire and the Sons of Sovereignty here.

Due to work catching up with me and affecting the amount of time I have, I will not be able to contribute to this project any longer. I'm not interested in having my legion continue to exist as dead weight so I'll be removing them from the document. That way, you're able to have someone more active take the role of Separatist warmaster and a more suitable legion take the place of the Sons of Sovereignty in the Separatists.

I wish you guys the best of luck with the AU and I'm sorry for not being able to take part any longer.

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>>53432970
I guess.
>>53432992
>Given that Malcador is a psyker, the most logical thing would be that something goes so heavily against psykers (probably events surrounding Nikea) that Malcador starts to question things.
The Emperor was also a psyker. Malcador was also one of the only people privy the Emperor's plans.

>None of these things are particularly probable, but moving Mars provides a 3rd rail for the Seps to ride on. It's a big step, but with Mars' technology and Malcador's immense psychic power, it seems possible to me.
It's not possible. Hiding a moon in the Warp is one thing, moving Mars to another part of the galaxy is Old Ones-tier stuff. Not even the Eldar have any examples close to that that I know of.

>>53433054
Mmk. Like I say, it was just a thought that seemed to offer a solution.

Steel Souls are Loyalists. I'll write more for them eventually.

>>53433027
Shame, I really liked your guys. I even warmed up to the idea of the primarch being uploaded into a computer. Oh well, shit happens.

NO THIS DOES NOT MEAN WE NEED ANOTHER LEGION. If somebody shows up, good. If they don't, it literally doesn't matter.

>>53433027
>>53433076
Holy shit no, they're critical. And I like them. But they're really important to the separatists.

>>53432515
Actually, let's take this a step further.

Malcador is the "Warmaster" of the Separatists and the source of the entire Separatist scheme after the Emperor ends up falling and a whole bunch of the loyalist legions end up worshiping him like zealots.

So now we're down to five separatist primarchs. Barring the introduction of new creators that want to be separatist, or legions switching to separatist, we need a boon for the separatists.

Double-strength legions sounds good.

>>53433106
I'm not writing for them, it's in everybody else's interest not to write for them, and if the creator does not wish for his legion to be in the AU then it's in our interest not to use them to avoid drama.

If the seps need a warmaster, I can rewrite the Ogre Legion.

>>53433155
Have a look at >>53433146

Separatists don't need a Warmaster, they're led by Malcador from the start.

>>53433168
That would solve that, but if he is the warmaster throughout the Crusade then he is not focusing on the secret side the Emperor needed him to focus on.

>>53433155
>Double-strength legions sounds good.
Also xenos auxiliaries, excess Mechanicum support, gaining the support of the people, or the Segmentum Ultima simply being a navigator's nightmare.

>>53433146
>>53433239
According to the Lexicanum, "According to Malcador himself, he is a surviving member of an ancient order known as The Sigillites which sought to gather and preserve the greatest and most powerful artifacts in Human history".

"Sigilites" aren't talked about or fluffed out very much in canon, I think. And their home base was beneath the Imperial Palace, where they stored all kinds of artifacts.

What if Malcador found he couldn't serve two masters? What if the Emperor felt the need to plunder their treasure trove? Might that be a reason for a schism between the two?

>>53433239
>>53433282
There's no need for him to focus on the secret project that is the Grey Knights if he decides to cede from the decaying, increasingly zealous Imperium instead.

This way we can have an enlightened, intelligent and logical Separatist faction that adheres to the Imperial Truth rather than the ridiculous dogma of the Ecclesiarchy.

>>53433282
I don't think there's any need for disagreement between the Emperor and Malcador. See >>53432964
>>53432970

>>53433305
>>53433303
>>53433282
>>53433239
>>53433168
>>53433155
>>53433146
>>53433054
>>53433019
>>53432992
>>53432970
>>53432964
>>53432924
>>53432913
>>53432812
>>53432784
>>53432515
So, it's settled then. Malcador is the Separatist Warmaster.

>>53433303
>There's no need for him to focus on the secret project that is the Grey Knights if he decides to cede from the decaying, increasingly zealous Imperium instead.
Besides the whole Chaos thing? And the Imperium not becoming super-religious until centuries after the creation of the Grey Knights?

>>53433303
That's true. Equally possible is that Malcador forges the Grey Knights for the Separatists as their counter to Chaos, since the Seps won't have the Emperor's blessing upon them.

True Warrior-Scholars resisting Chaos with discipline and willpower, instead of the most Zealous of Zealots?

>>53433329
AU. In the absence of the Emperor after he becomes wounded, various legions become increasingly fanatical, religious and over-zealous. Several references to developing the Ecclesiarchy during the HH have already been made.

>>53433343
>In the absence of the Emperor after he becomes wounded, various legions become increasingly fanatical, religious and over-zealous.
And the Imperium becomes religious before the Civil War?

>>53433362
Yep.

>>53433369
Like, a majority of the Imperium? Within a few years of the Emperor's death? And all the loyalist legions are perpetrating this?

>>53433391
Well yeah, lots of them are super religious themed.

>>53433362
>>53433369
>>53433391
>>53433396
Sounds like that implies the Emperor begins to slide away from the Imperial Truth, which is interesting. Temptation is the first and oldest sin after all. One need not fall to Chaos to experience the lure of power. Perhaps it's even necessary to fight off a particularly strong blow dealt by the Chaos Gods?

Maybe before the Heresy the Gods attempt to strike the Emperor themselves, and the Emperor only narrowly survives? And then he asks himself "do I need more power"? Anyone can have a rude awakening, even the Master of Mankind.

>>53433458
Especially if some of his sons are fully behind him making that decision....

It'd certainly make this universe's Lorgar VERY happy, yeah? No Monarchia here!

>>53433322
Malcador is the seperatist leader. Him being the Warmaster is kind of pointless, especially since it detracts a little from the whole brothers war angle.

Also, this kinda sets up a 40k were the two sides of the galaxies are philosophically extreme opposites. The Seperatists will likely become 1984 level extreme inquisitorial technocracy, were any amount of religious activity among the population is cracked down upon and the people live under a literally iron fist. The Imperial Side becomes a hyper theological state where everyone is incredibly religious and anyone who doesn't come to mass is burned at the stake.

I think that leaves Chaos in an interesting position. As has been mentioned, they're a more primitive than the other two factions culturally, and it's also pretty much 14 on 7. So they end up being more raiders or destabilizing influences. They gnaw at the border world's and slowly eat away at both sides.

>>53433396
I'm not seeing it for any except the Silver Blades.

>>53433474
>Malcador is the seperatist leader. Him being the Warmaster is kind of pointless

This is correct. The "leader" need not be the "warboss". Marines are fighters, they do the fighting. Malcador would be the master of politics he is in canon.

I think the best way to handle this is through simple human greed. The warmasters want to attain the position of supreme leader, so they fight it out. One wins, but one takes half the Imperium with him and one turns to Chaos.

>>53433518
It also adds a sense of irony to it, as these "brothers" are squabbling among themselves and becoming bitter enemies in a "Brother" War.

>>53433493

The Loyalist Noise Marines seem pretty zealous too.

>>53433567
Oh right, those guys. Forgot about them.

Speaking of forgetting, who all is still in this thing? Roll call, sound off!

>>53433591
Aye.

>>53433591
I'm here.

>>53433591
'Sup

>>53432654
The OU has 9 loyal chapters. And 9 chaos chapters.

>>53433591
I'm here. Work, a social life and a girlfriend make my week pretty busy though

cri

>>53433591

Symphonious Disciples anon here, still unwilling to compromise on my anti-namefagging stance.

>>53433591
Here.
>>53433629
And I can't count.

>>53433591
I'm here, posting from the hospital.

>>53432654
What I'm interested in is the relationships that develop during the great crusade and how they fall apart during the heresry

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>>53433599
Dropped.
>>53433617
Dropped.
>>53433622
Dropped.
>>53433638
A social life?! FUCKING. DROPPED.
>>53433642
See pic
>>53433657
We don't need illiterates. Dropped!
>>53433661
Sorry, you've become a liability. I'm afraid we'll have to drop you.

>>53433691
Well that about takes care of that. Pack it in people, show's over. :P

>>53433681
Well in this case, what is each primarch's relationship with Malcador, since he's now one of the most important characters of this AU?

>>53433703
You sassing me? I'm docking your pay!

>>53433591
I don't have a primarch and legion but I'm here

>>53433745
Good news, seven positions just opened up!

>>53433745
Well, it's time to make one then that suits the enlightened ways of the Separatists.

>>53433705
Shit dude I dont even know anymore.
>>53433074
I gave up earlier and said Loyalist, but all of a sudden a bunch of people seem to have taken some sort of liking to the idea I had previously and I'm not sure.

I think I'm going to just let the group decide where the Steel Souls go. Obviously I like my Malcador idea, but I've made my case and now it's kinda out of my hands.

>>53433756
>enlightened
aw jeeze
plz no fedoras or knights inductor tho
that dont end well for anyone

>>53433705
Gyahdred looks up to Malcador similar to how he felt towards Gregoire. I'm thinking Gyahdred will bring his political theory to Malcador and also approach him on the matter of the Curse of the Elver. I think Gyahdred is also happy to help Malcador on mechanicum stuff.

>>53433782
I think if we run the Malc idea it makes more sense for the SS (yes I just realise how bad that abbreviation was) to stick with him and go seps.
But ultimately it is about what you are more comfortable wtiting for man.
CoH were originally meant as loyalist too but I'm getting right ito them joining chaos now.

>>53433745
>>53433756
Only if you really wanna.
>>53433782
>I think I'm going to just let the group decide where the Steel Souls go.
Don't, put them where you want them.

>>53433705
I feel like Rokuten would be the separatist warmaster instead of Malcador, as it says in his background he aspires to be the emperor. Which could easily manifest in him taking over the Separatist Imperium.
It would also keep it simple. And while that may seem like a bad thing, it keeps up the romantic aspect of three brothers now at war.
On the plus side of keeping it simple, we don't have to work out a convoluted way for Malcador to betray Big E and somehow warp Mars somewhere else :P

If we need it I can always rework the Tide Breakers.

>>53433820
>>53433832
If the group likes Malcador starting/leading the Separatists (probably not as Warmaster though), I'll send the Steels with them. It makes sense to me and I can write in support of it.

If the group would rather have some other blend of whatever for the Seps, that's also fine with me, and I'll put the Steels as Loyalists since that's easier for me to write for.

>>53433838

> convoluted way for Malcador to betray Big E and somehow warp Mars somewhere else
but, but, muh planet moving. :P

>>53433848
We don't FUCKING need it, but you can do it.
>>53433853
>but, but, muh planet moving
Leave that shit for the necrons and The Ship Moves.

>>53433705
I feel like Valorn would deeply respect Malcador. He'd see Malcador's dedication to his father and the imperium as pure and perfect in that it is not for Malcador's own interests that he acts, but for the betterment of all humanity. Much like the Emperor, but more down to earth in Valorn's eyes

>>53433869
Real talk though, one idea I had been brainstorming before this whole conversation took place was that someday Emil would find the remnants of the warp-trail left behind from the Warp Storm that stole Nonimat IV's parent star, follow that trail, rediscover their missing sun, and reopen the warp lane to put their planet back where it belonged.

That seemed like a fun story to tell, and having Mars be moved early on would give Emil the experience he'd need to pull it off a second time.

>>53433591
Me!

I'm gonna be off to bed though. Just came back from D&D. Quick point before I call it in, we don't have to scrap any legions. The Sons of Sovereignty are really cool imo. Just use them like we used Klaus and Redac in IA. Semi-plot devices. As long as we know for sure the anon himself doesn't mind, I don't mind.

Final final note, the Imperium going full theocracy AFTER the Heresy is fine, but Raj himself would go Seperatist if he saw it happening. I'm planning on having him die during the Siege of Terra, so after the Heresy his legion could become super religious. Before? Not so much.

>>53433938
The anon himself asked for them to be scrapped. So they're gone.

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It's at this point I realize I'm Rokuten: ambitious and trying to take power while wearing a mask of honor.

JKJK

>>53433914
A star is an even greater feat, beyond even the Emperor I reckon. It's entirely possible to pull it back with incredibly ancient technology from the Eldar, but that hinges on 1.) finding it, 2.) avoiding the wrath and possibly befriending the right Eldar, and 3.) the universe not being set on destroying any hope for humanity, including the possibility of saving Emil's homeworld. I think it would be a better story if he found it, but couldn't return it; or if he disappears trying to find it.

>>53433988
>>53433914
I feel like Rokuten's idea is better overall. Although as for the Steel Souls, its loyalty is completely up to you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise <3

Personally, I'd rather not have Malcador as a warmaster, perhaps only an aide to the Separatist warmaster as a second golden throne to power the Separatist's fleets and stuff

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Let's just take a moment to cool off, my Battle-Brothers. I think I'm confused. What's the state of things now?

>>53433988
I wasn't talking about moving the star anywhere, I was talking about opening the warp lane that the star moved through already, so that it would suck the *planet* through to the star's new location. If that makes any difference.

The hole's already there, it's just "scarred over" so to speak.

>>53434013
Malcador's not the actual Warmaster, I'm pretty sure. One of the Primarchs is, Malcador's the political/assassin leader, and probably a major impetus/nucleus for forming the Sep faction as a whole.

>>53434021
The Sons of Sovereignty have pulled out, leaving the Separatist Warmaster position vacant. Most people agree with Malcador being the new warmaster. I personally disagree, but if the majority votes for it, that's cool.

There are also talks of the original imperium becoming a religious fanatical empire

>>53434031
That makes more sense with malcador. Maybe he sacrifices himself for the greater good of the imperial truth that the Separatists believe they represent, and makes his own golden throne with the help of the Forge Lords? This would allow the Separatists to hold their own against chaos and have their own astronomicon.

This would also make a cool contrast with the Old Imperium and the New Imperium

>>53434055
>>53433962
He removed them because he didn't want them to be dead weight. I don't think they would be, so we could let them stick around and we'll fill in their details in together. But if people would rather send them on their way, then we'll do that.

>>53434101
Unless he comes back and says otherwise, respect his wishes and let him pull them out.

>>53434086
Making a Golden Throne strong/effective enough that Malcador could use it without completely incinerating into dust and dying like he did in the OU would be quite a feat. Although it would 100% be the crowning glory of any AU Primarch that pulled it off, which might be cool.

That said, it's also more plausible because presumably the Sep-Throne isn't also trying to be a doorstopper for a Chaos Gate under the throne-sitter's ass, lol. Might be a little easier to manage, lol.

Or it could be built into that Pharos thing that apparently exists now. Although that still feels kinda "nu-canon" to me so I'm not sure how I feel about it. What do you guys think? Malcador+Pharos? Would that be the most logical/least divergent option?

>>53434101
I feel like having all active creations (with their creators) would be a better thing for the progression of this project.

>>53434031
>I wasn't talking about moving the star anywhere, I was talking about opening the warp lane that the star moved through already, so that it would suck the *planet* through to the star's new location. If that makes any difference.
That depends. If we go for simple, I'm-not-gonna-think-about-this-too-hard-because-I'm-not-autistic logic then yeas, it safely reenters orbit. However, if we're going for a grimdark route, then the planet is either destroyed by the forces involved, shot off past the star by the slingshot effect, or destroyed mid-transit through the portal because it suddenly shuts.
>>53434086
>That makes more sense with malcador. Maybe he sacrifices himself for the greater good of the imperial truth that the Separatists believe they represent, and makes his own golden throne with the help of the Forge Lords? This would allow the Separatists to hold their own against chaos and have their own astronomicon.
I'm... Wary about this.

I mean, Malcador was the Emperor's closest ally. For him to set up an astronomicon opposite to the Emperor's seems like an insult and a challenge to the Emperor. Not to mention the Golden Throne's technology is ancient, beyond even the Forge Lords' ability.
>>53434101
As the foremost proponent of CUT LEGIONS in any AU, I think we should let the SoS (kek) rest in peace. No point in propping it up like a meat puppet this early when we don't even have a 1d4chan page.

>>53434154
>planet stuff
Well, that doesn't really point me in any direction, but I appreciate the consideration.

>challenge to the Emperor
If he's a Separatist, that Rubicon's certainly already been crossed, but yeah. What do you think about maybe using the Pharos, then, instead of building another Throne? Could that be the solution?

>>53434154
>Malcador was the Emperor's closest ally
Such a juicy betrayal. Makes me tingly just thinking about it. This might be a fun read.

I think Malcador should die during the Brother War fighting for the Imperium. His and the Emperor's deaths should herald major changes in the Imperium: The Emperor's, the Brother War; and Malcador's, the death of reason in the Imperium.
>>53434187
>Well, that doesn't really point me in any direction, but I appreciate the consideration.
I'm just giving you the choices present in every 40K-related decision.

>If he's a Separatist, that Rubicon's certainly already been crossed, but yeah.
In a sense, it's actually an attempt to take hold of the Imperium's fate to point it in the right direction.
>What do you think about maybe using the Pharos, then, instead of building another Throne? Could that be the solution?
Perhaps.
>>53434228
This is Malcador, not Horus.

>>53434154
So what's the plan? Have a whole Legion with Malcador as the Gene-Father XD or just the surrogate?

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>>53433591
I'm still here, but my hours are odd due to shifting work schedules and I might be the only Australian.

>>53434228
>>53434187
Hear me out for a reason for the Steel Souls to possibly go separatist

Perhaps Emil and Malcador became close allies, thus convincing Malcador to join the separatists?
The Emperor could become increasingly obsessed with his projects and own issues. Thus distancing himself with Malcador and the Primarchs. Allowing Malcador to be swayed by another powerful psyker.

>>53433591
Even if it's a Redundant; I'm Here.

>>53434238
Nah man I'm also an Aussie. The only reason I'm here is because I have late shifts

>>53434154
Unless the Emperor is on the throne and a vegetable. Malcador isn't betraying the Emperor, he's trying to keep his dream alive.

So I finished up the story of Lambachs turn to chaos. Again I can change whatever needs to be changed. I also realize that this might make him the first to fall, depending on where we slot it timeline wise.

Dead. Taarush Amin could hardly believe it but the Chosen warrior he faced now could be nothing else. The man moved like a puppet. An enormous hole sheared right through his chest. A Power Sword, wielded by a Silver Blades legionnaire, had destroyed both hearts. The man should not have been walking, let alone be able to fight and yet he still carried on. Taarush knocked aside a clumsy spear thrust and fired his Storm bolter directly into the zombified legionnaire's helmeted head, explosive rounds shattering his skull. The body collapsed and did not rise again. What dark power had the Chosen of Hecate harnessed that they could force the dead to rise and fight like the living?

With horror Taarush noticed his own fallen brothers, and those of the Silver Blades legion, beginning to rise. They attacked their former brothers from behind, distracting them long enough for the deadly heavy weapons fire from the Chosen Dreadnoughts to cause massive damage to the Silver Blades ranks.

Then all of a sudden it struck Taarush. He knew why the Librarians of the Chosen were nowhere to be seen. He remembered a conversation he'd once had to with his friend Radcliff. Kaden had told him that sometimes powerful enchantments required groups of Librarians, all focusing their Psychic might into one spell to keep the effects in place. The Titan Marchers and Chosen of Hecate had used this ploy once before to shield one of Raj's Titans from enemy scanners. Taarush just had to find where they were secreted. He gathered his command squad to his side, requested the aid of a squad of nearby Silver Blades and made for the base of the dais which had been largely ignored.

>>53434336
"Again brother," continued Lambach, "I implore you to join me. Below us our sons fight and kill each other, and for what? The lies of a man so far removed from both them and us that he does not, no, could not care about them! We could end this now, you, me and Raj! We could band together, others will surely flock to us! The three of us each have close ties to our brothers! We could make them see! We could show them the truth Linares! Great men like Kaden die in the name of the Emperor and he doesn't even care enough to learn their names!”

Suddenly Linares was upon him. A diving tackle forced Lambach down unto the ground, after which he hammered his fist into Kropor’s face. Linares had noticed that while Lambach spoke, his lips did not match his words, but only barely, just a fraction of second at most. Somehow Lambach Kropor was existing a fraction of a second before his actions. That is why Linares had been unable to land a blow and why he was unable to block. The Lord of the Ale saw it now and expertly adjusted his fighting style to match the anticipation he hammered several blows into Lambachs unguarded face. Then he raised his famous blade high, with the intention of pinning Lambach to the floor. Suddenly his arm felt leaden and the Silver Slayer became the heaviest object in the universe. With his fist wrapped around Lambachs neck he looked up to see Gaius Mendel standing several yards away. A look of intense concentration on his face, using his prodigious mental powers to hold Linares sword arm down. The Master of the IVth was about to release his brother and focus on the Psyker when suddenly a molten ball of plasma connected with Mendel's leg. Shearing it off and sending the Grand Warpclaw sprawling down the staircase, down to the ground, clutching at the stump of his ruined limb.

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>>53434236
Huh?
>>53434255
>Perhaps Emil and Malcador became close allies, thus convincing Malcador to join the separatists?
Malcador does not get convinced, Malcador convinces.
>The Emperor could become increasingly obsessed with his projects and own issues. Thus distancing himself with Malcador and the Primarchs. Allowing Malcador to be swayed by another powerful psyker.
Malcador didn't have a problem with this in the OU.

>>53434238
>Australian
FUCKING
DROPPED
>>53434258
Not anymore. Dropped!
>>53434278
>Two aussies
>Ameritistic screeching
>>53434306
>Unless the Emperor is on the throne and a vegetable.
That makes it even more insulting. Like,"Haha, look at me! What you gonna do, veggieman, rot all over me? Where's your Imperium now!"
Honestly, I think we should go with >>53434119 if anything.

>>53434350
"Finish this Linares!" Raj shouted from his prone position in the middle of the dias. The Lord of Titans was affixing a crude replacement leg in place of his shattered cybernetic.

Lambach was stunned. He had expected Linares to listen to him, or Raj. These were his closest brothers, the two he always knew he could confide in. Had he made a grave error of judgement? Lambach felt the Psychic links of his Librarians snuff out. All of a sudden the fallen warriors of all three Legions fell to the ground, dead once more. Someone had found the Librarium’s chamber. Lambach ordered his men to fall back, to try and get to the transports and somehow make it away from the orbital Silver Blades fleet.

As Linares blade descended time seemed to stand still. Lambach rose from the ground. He could see everything. His brother still straddled his body, blade poised to pin him to the dias. Lambach felt two divine beings. The Weaver of Fate, eager to enlist a Psychic champion of Lambach’s renown, offered the Primarch phenomenal cosmic powers. Father Nurgle offered the Lord of Undeath true mastery of his titular abilities and eternal life for his men. Both offered him a chance to escape, they bade him make a choice.

Linares blade stabbed down into Lambach’s chest. Pinning the Master of Miletus to the floor. "You have made a mistake Lambach! You have cost my legion dearly in your folly and for that, you, will, pay! I will not question our Father! His word is absolute! I would have stood by your side and begged for his forgiveness, but you have spoiled that chance!" Linares leaned in close to Lambach’s face and was surprised to see a smile on his lips. Lambach let out a shrill shriek and suddenly burst into a swarm of plague ridden rats which swarmed over the Lord of the Ale. Raj rushed to his brother’s aid and, with the help of his built in wrist mounted flamer, the vermin were swiftly vanquished. Lambach was nowhere to be seen.

>>53434364
Chosen of Hecate transports were taking off and being harried by the surviving Silver Blades and Titan Marchers. "We must return to the fleet, Raj. Kropor cannot be allowed to escape!" Linares spoke solemnly with uncharacteristic seriousness, finally letting the wounds he had taken show and thankful of his brother for the help standing. "We are in no state to pursue! The Chosen have taken heavy casualties, but our forces have taken a serious blow, my friend. We should report to Father. I heard what Lambach said to you. He may try to recruit others to his cause! I can think of one or two of our brothers that may give us cause for concern.” Raj made no comment on exactly how Kropor’s words had affected him.

Lambach was gone. The Chosen had fled. Reports from the captains of the 54th fleet reported what seemed to be swarms of flies swarming their ships, preventing them from taking real action against the Chosen of Hecate fleet. There were no traces of Lambach to be found.

The next time either Raj or Linares would see their brother would be at the side of Marduk Engur, Warmaster of Chaos.

>>53434357
>That makes it even more insulting. Like,"Haha, look at me! What you gonna do, veggieman, rot all over me? Where's your Imperium now!"

I'm not seeing it. Malcador is a realist. If he sees the Emperor's corpse being used as a nightlight by the people he hated the most, then he would definitely do anything, ANYTHING, to try and stop it. Maybe that means almost starting over from scratch.

>>53434255
>>53433853
Something like that is basically along the lines of what I was thinking. Emil's a strong psyker, so he'd have a lot in common with Malcador.

I don't know how many Seps are also psykers, but the less of them there happen to be, the more Emil would likely gravitate toward Malcador.

>>53434235
I agree with this.

So who is the sep Warmaster?

>>53434386
That's an angle I hadn't even thought of.

"You abominations masquerading as heroes, as lords of men. You have taken your father's body and desecrated him, believing him still alive. The Emperor is dead, who better than I to know this? Enough is enough! No more!"

Drama ensues when Malcador's only half right. Or is he? Such mystery!

So, this AU has turned into Malcador making an Imperium that's better than the real Imperium ever was, with a better Imperial Truth and a better Golden Throne?

>>53434386
I'm with Anon on this one, but I'll go with whatever the majority votes when they wake up. No need to cause major ripples when there doesn't have to be

>>53434386
>I'm not seeing it. Malcador is a realist. If he sees the Emperor's corpse being used as a nightlight by the people he hated the most, then he would definitely do anything, ANYTHING, to try and stop it. Maybe that means almost starting over from scratch.
He could Officio Assassinorum the source of the radicalization away.

Like I said, we should kill Malcador during the Brother War. Otherwise he would linger in the Imperium for centuries, even millennia, before the Imperium reaches the point of no return.

>>53434409
Like two people say it should be Rokuten (including me), others are saying Malcador.

>>53434416
Oh God, now I'm seeing it.

>>53434416
Not necessarily better, just different

>>53434409
I'd say Rokuten. It literally says in his backstory he desires to be emperor

>>53434433

MALCRUMPF ORDERED TWO PHAROS!!! TWO!!!

>>53434416
>better imperium
Prooobably not.

>better imperial truth
I don't think we've even talked about revamping the Imperial Truth, or what that would even look like.

>better golden throne
We've pretty much ruled that out as impossible. I'm pushing for Malcador modifying the Pharos somehow to suit the Seps' purposes, but so far I'm the only one who likes that idea.

>>53434466
What if the Separatists learn how to mass produce the Pharos?

>>53434433
I don't care which Primarch is the SepMaster, only that it is a Primarch. If it's Rokuten, that's fine with me, if it's another that's also fine.

I like Malcador being a major force behind Separatism, and the major civilian leader for __________ amount of time. I agree he should not be the Warmaster though.

>>53434496
>>53434433
Perhaps Malcador has to bind himself to the Pharos, therefore keeping him out of the way and not completely insulting The Emps by making Golden Throne 2: Electric Boogaloo

>>53434478
Mass producing xenotech the size of a small mountain? That existed before the Imperium, possibly before Humanity itself?

That seems very implausible, and I'm the guy who wants to move a planet through the Warp, lol.

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>>53434471
>I don't think we've even talked about revamping the Imperial Truth, or what that would even look like.
We've talked at length about the separatists trying to preserve the Imperial Truth in the face of

>>53434496
>>53434521
I just had a thought.

Why can't he be a leader in both the Imperium and the Separatists? Attempting to play both sides, while also laying the foundation for anti-Chaos organizations, before ultimately failing and dying.

>>53434521
Works for me, at least.

>>53434539
Preserve, sure. That other guy was implying we somehow made a "better" version of it, is what I was disputing.

>>53434539
>We've talked at length about the separatists trying to preserve the Imperial Truth in the face of
In the face of an Imperium turning back to superstition.

>>53434278
Oh cool, I also work night shift.
Probably the only reason I have time for this project.

>>53434539
>leading both the Imps and Seps at various junctures

Maaaaybe? Making sure the timeline flowed smoothly for that would be really difficult, but if that problem could be solved it might work. Be awfully complex though. And would that be before or after the Emperor's wounded?

>>53434539
That could work, and then during the 40k apocalypse or whatever they call it nowadays both IMperiums eventually come together to fight Chaos

>>53434600
>Maaaaybe? Making sure the timeline flowed smoothly for that would be really difficult, but if that problem could be solved it might work.
It's just a brief thing, and it makes perfect sense for the spymaster.
>Be awfully complex though.
Depends on how in depth you want to get into it. Malcador tells Je-She he's going to sep space to do some spying for a few months, does some work there strengthening their anti-Chaos forces while weakening their determination to remain separate. He then tells Rokuten he's going to the Imperium to spy on them, bringing back intelligence, then trying to undo the ideological regression of the Imperium. Along the line he establishes Inquisitions, Grey Knights, Officio Assassinorums, etc. in both realms. Rokuten finds out, Je-She exploits Malcador's intel to launch an invasion, there's a war, and all three die.

He also tries to get them to focus more on the Chaos legions instead of each other during the Brother War.

This also gives the Separatists a fighting force against Chaos and its corruption.
>And would that be before or after the Emperor's wounded?
It would last the Brother War and a bit after.
>>53434697
Malcador would be dead by then.

Big kudos to whoever came up with the Malcadorian Separatist idea!

God knows that they were boring as shit before that.

>>53434750
So the Seps break away without Malcador's support initially, or he suggests they break away, and they do, but he only actually joins them later?

>>53434750
>>53434794
I disagree with this. Malcador should be the one that orchestrates the actions of the Separatists and leads them, even if it's just from the shadows.

>>53434794
They break away without his input, but then he infiltrates them because,"I believe the Imperium has lost its way," or something.

So, the Emperor is interred in the Golden Throne pre-Brother War. The Imperium is left in the care of the three warmasters; however, there is much friction between the three, as well as rowdiness in the ranks. On one hand, you have some primarchs and legions, without oversight from the Emperor, attempting to return to their religious practices and bending the Imperium to do likewise. On the other, you have legions who are dissatisfied with the way the Imperium handled the Great Crusade. What's more, there are primarchs showing erratic behavior; giving strange orders, confining themselves to their quarters, or being particularly brutal in their peacekeeping.

The three warmasters are also at odds with each other. Rokuten's mask of honor is showing cracks as he attempts to gain an edge over the others, waiting for the moment to take the Imperium as his own and become sovereign of all mankind. Je-She attempts to quell dissent in the Imperium and prevent attempts at rebellion, struggling to keep the order as his brothers grow increasingly distant. The third warmaster whose name I forgot has been strangely quiet these past months, more content to watch the events play out than to do anything to prevent them; he may even be agitating them.

There is a storm brewing, and anybody who holds power can see it. The time is near for the galaxy to erupt into war once again, and there is no telling who will be on top by the end of it.

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All three of my shitty snap fit marines are done. Do you think they look like Forge Lords?

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Oh, and elephant seals are involved somehow.
>>53435255
Yes, good job.

>>53435255
Not bad.

I like the one on the right best, although I can't help but have this odd feeling that if somehow we had perfect sculpting powers, the horns piercing the orb would look way cooler if they were arms with hands holding the orb like an object of worship or a crystal ball or something.

No idea why though.

>>53435344
Oh shit I realized I forgot to do a layer of Auric Armor Gold on the middle guy. Also, what color do you think I should go for on the lenses? That's a skull by the way.

>>53435365
Maybe white/silver for the lenses. It'd stand out pretty well.

This looks interesting. What's the 30 second breakdown?

>>53435611
We are remaking the 40k universe with our own snowflakes and 3 factions as opposed to 2

>>53435611
Twenty new legions, a non-chaos separatist faction maybe led my Malcador, and an ungodly amount of tech-heresy.

>>53435611
Shit broke twice.

>>53435611
Instead of one warmaster, there are three: Je-She of the Sentinels, Rokuten of the Ogre Legion, and whoever the third warmaster is.

Emperor is mortally wounded before the end of the Great Crusade. For reasons we're still ascertaining (preservation of the Imperial Truth, discontent with the Imperium's methods, powergrabbing, Malcador may be involved, your pick), some legions defect, others turn to Chaos, and 10,000 years later the three factions (Imperium, Separatists, and Chaos) are fighting for the galaxy.

>>53435611
I'm also contributing, like, everything that isn't space marines. Because Hektor Heresy.

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I leave for a couple hours, and suddenly the Seps lose a warmaster, gain Malcador, get a new warmaster, and start using the Pharos... thingy? I have no idea what that is, someone drop me some knowledge.
At least Einchurt gets to continue being the Sep-stapo

>>53436036
I don't know much about the Pharos device, but it's some kind of psychic beacon that the Ultramarines used during the Horus Heresy, I think as a surrogate Astronomican due to the ruinstorm, that actually got the attention of the tyranids. Also I've painted some Forge Lords here >>53435255

>>53436095
Ah, okay. Yeah that'd likely be useful.
For a test run of models, I'd say they look pretty good

>>53435681
What do you mean because Hektor Heresy. We had plenty of non-space marine stuff. Like special snowflake NANOMACHINES SON vampires.

>>53436170
>What do you mean because Hektor Heresy
Most of the stuff in the folder I posted on the spreadsheet is stuff I never used for Hektor Heresy.

>>53436170
>Nanomachines, Xun.

I feel like there aren't enough anti-psyker votes at Nikaea, but also feel like there isn't enough credible reason for Marduk to vote that way. What do?

Also, we should really decide who the Heretic warmaster is gonna be once and for all.

>>53436410
Hey, it continues to surprise me that the Khornate Gunslinger Legion still somehow came out in favor of psykers. And possibly using psychic powers, given that one of their specialties is Gun Kata, which pretty much requires the Warp to make happen. One wonders if Khorne would permit that sort of thing, given his opinion of psychicy things.

Just because their combo makes like no sense whatsoever, and they're maximum edgelord, imma still vote for that guy as ChaosMaster, because he seems completely contradictory and therefore appropriately Chaotic.

This may or may not be a shitpost, interpret it how you will.

>>53436592
I've always figured Khorne would be cool with biomancy. Also could he that the legion changes it's mind.

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>>53436410
We could have it that Big E just changes all the neutral votes to No, without saying anything to the Primarchs because he is a bit of a Dbag like that?

>>53437105
Do we even still need a Council of Nikaea?

>>53437237
I thought we discussed having Nikaea be about tech instead of psykery.

>>53433591
Good morning, Pacha's contributor here. Should switch to EST time soon, so timelag issues won't be an issue in 3 weeks or so.

>>53433591
Reporting for duty

>>53436592
Yeah, I'm fairly sure that Khorne would be ok with Gun Kata and using psyker powers to do warrior stuff like 'HIT IT SUPER HARD' or 'DO A HUGE LEAP AND SMASH'

What happened tonight?

>>53437254
Same.

>>53435635
what are the twenty new legions? Are two missing like canon?

>>53437580
We actually have twenty one, to make the split even. The full list is in the spreadsheet in the OP, though there is talk of dropping one of those and it's not a super descriptive list.

>>53435029
Yes! I might stick that in the copy-pasta.

>Rokuten as Warmaster
Is he a Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, or a Tokugawa?
How's he feel about Malcador?
During the crusade, Gyahdred writes up a treatise on more efficient management techniques, theorizing that smaller, primarch/astartes managed sub-Imperiums would result in greater efficiency. What does Rokuten think?

>General Question
With Gregoire gone, who is the empire builder?

>>53437643
what makes the separatists different from the Imperium?

>>53437019
>>53437420

Also, OU Gore Mages are a thing, so it's not unprecedented.

>>53436592
Yeah. Kane for ChaosWarmaster mKes sense. But he chose humself to bewarmaster.

And yes. Ithink khorne would Grant biomancy and bloodmagic to enhance the martial power.

And he hates malcador and even More rokuten

Just to address the Gun Kata...could be pulled off by blessings by Khorne. For example instead of standard berserkers perhaps the Gunslingers who prove especially devout have one heart mutated by the Blood God, allowing the marine to pump far more adrenaline through their system then normal. Giving a "bullet-time" effect while the Neural Pathways are heightened, allowing the marine to react faster than even the most modified battle brother.

However as a downside their blood is toxic and often must keep slaves or war parties close in order to purge their highly toxic fluids and replace it with "fresh" blood. Yet even then the most bloodthirsty of Khorne's cults will collect these fluids from the poor individual who partook in the cleaning; refining the warp-tainted fuel into "Gun Oil", a potent and frenzy instilling Combat Drug.

>>53438551
That i like. Having bloodbags attached to them. Symbolzing the 2nd wound. If a wound is lost. A bloodbag is lost and the berserker goes into a crazy frenzy.

Ok, so what's the plan with the Loyalists and Seperatists now? Because I'm slightly confused.

I understand Malcador leading the Sep movement, but why is he doing that? Is it because the Imperium is going full religious nutjob? Because, like I said before, the moment the Imperium strays from the Imperial Truth, Raj joins the Seperatists.

>>53437237
>>53437254
Nikea is useful in that it provides something to enact censure over and one Warmaster unilaterally declaring censure for crimes real or imagined is a great way for a cold war to go very, very hot. It's not critical, though. Just a useful tool.

>>53438551
Sexy.

On a related topic, Gyahdred would have quite a following amongst the mechanicum regardless of his attempts to avoid such adoration. The Magi of Stovokor have him as their techno-Dalai Lama and I imagine that the belief in him as a special manifestation of the Omnissiah would spread. There's a few ways this could go, but I think there's a fair chance that the Fabricator General would consider him a potential threat, either as a potential replacement or as a different pole of power for heterodox forges to flock to. I'm thinking Gyahdred does run with an odd crowd in the Mechanicum, so this isn't too crazy.

This would allow a major faction of the Mechanicum to side with Malcador via Gyahdred.

Gyahdred could also make nice with the Fabricator General, but I see this as less likely because of Gyahdred's distaste for that sort of religion. He believes that practices of Stovokor are entirely compatible with the Imperial Truth in that same way that Buddhists aren't terribly concerned with gods, by and large.
Unless, of course, the Fabricator General is a radical and buddies with the likes of Koriel Zeth. In which case, then yes, Gyahdred would be a staunch ally and probably lend much to the Fabricator General's credibility.
We will still need a rival forge alliance that will form the core of the Imperium Admech, though.
(This would yield Adeptus Mechanicus in the Imperium and the O.G. Mechanicum in the Seps.)

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>>53439232
Since you and I talked about this...I have a proposal for a Legion in replacement of the Sons.

More Details to follow.

>NO LONGER SHALL THE FABRICATOR GENERAL ABUSE THE GENTLE SERVITOR!

>>53439329
Colour me intrigued. Also green.
>>53437822
At the moment the general consensus seems to be that the Imperium goes full religious nut job and the seps try to stay true to the imperial truth. Also the seps might be a little Heretek-y

>>53436036
>>53439232
The loyalists become irrational, devoted zealots of the Emperor gets injured and end up developing a sort of proto-Ecclesiarchy.
Malcador still follows the Imperial Truth and teleports Mars through the Warp to a new location with the Pharos where he founds the Separatist movement, since the Imperium is falling away from the enlightened ideals of the Emperor.

This allows the Separatists to thrive as a bastion of knowledge and technological advancement while the Imperials devolve into dogmatic maniacs.

>>53439887
I would not say they are separists at the time malcador flees. They could just ne the 3rd fleet who is absent from imperial space too long and malcador ( and i think raj) tells them what the imperium is gping to become and this fleet wants to save the emperor and stop the zealots.

>>53439887
>>53439940
What the fuck? How do they move Mars? Also, if that's what happens, the Titan Marchers are gonna be going Seperatist.

>>53439962
Probably a little handwaving plus a little deux ex machina plus the Pharos equals the moving of Mars. It makes more sense than what was planned for the Separatists before though. It's the only logical explanation of technological supremacy for the Separatists.

Go up and read Emil's posts on the subject.

>>53438551
I like that a lot actually.

My only actual objection to the Gun Kata is specifically if they're also doing the "lol we curve bullets with our mind" thing. That just seems strange for Khornates, since real-space bullets simply don't curve like that.

"Fistfighting and martial arts but also with pistols" is totally acceptable though.

Alas, it's back to the hammer of war. I mean work. Because I got bills and shit.

See you niggas in a handful of hours, try not to burn the place down. :P

>>53439887
Wait what. We're going beyond 40k Imperium in terms of zealotry? Heck, how many of the primarchs would even be on board with that beyond Yochin and his Symphonious Disciples?

>>53439887
I personally don't think it would become more fanatical than current OU 40k, just amped up a bit earlier.

Although I can see the ecclesiarchy being a lot more powerful than in the OU due to the support of Yochin and the Disciples

>>53440105
Na. Enhanced reflexes so that they can actually deflect blades with a bullet shot at the right time and angle.

>>53439962
What did you think to the end of Lambachs turn Raj?

>>53439887

I really don't like the idea of the Seps "thriving as a bastion" of anything compared to the real Imperium. I'd much rather they be as Grimdark and oppressive as the real thing, just in a different way. Maybe not during the Heresy, but pretty soon afterward at least.

>>53440763
I think its great! You might've noticed I edited it a bit after you went to sleep yesterday.

But seriously guys, if we're going to go the religiously fanatical Imperium during the Heresy, Raj is going Seperatist. So idk what the reactions to that are? If there's a Sep that wants to Loyal, this might be your chance.

>>53441419
Swap the Titan Marchers with the Steel Souls? They wanted to go Loyalist anyway I think. Then we have Linares, Raj and Lambach each in a seperate faction?
And yeah I noticed you'd had a play with it when I woke up, cheers dude. I think the bit I enjoyed writing the most was Raj vs kaden Monster.

>>53441448
Makes sense

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>>53433591
Iron Guard, reporting for duty.

>>53437643
>We actually have twenty one, to make the split even.
Actually, it's 20. The Sons of the Sovereign guy pulled his legion due to life issues.
>>53437770
>Is he a Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, or a Tokugawa?
Nobunaga with a face only a mother could love.
>How's he feel about Malcador?
Just another king he needs to checkmate.
>During the crusade, Gyahdred writes up a treatise on more efficient management techniques, theorizing that smaller, primarch/astartes managed sub-Imperiums would result in greater efficiency. What does Rokuten think?
On the surface, Rokuten supports this, citing the feudal system of his homeworld. In reality, he's trying to figure out how to use it to his advantage, and then to crush those who support it.

>>53439255
>Nikea is useful in that it provides something to enact censure over and one Warmaster unilaterally declaring censure for crimes real or imagined is a great way for a cold war to go very, very hot. It's not critical, though. Just a useful tool.
If Rokuten is warmaster, then...

Actually, firstly, is everybody in agreement Rokuten should be warmaster? There's Malcador, but some people are also saying he should be on the civilian side, and I suggested he be trying to play both sides.
>>53440059
>It's the only logical explanation of technological supremacy for the Separatists.
Maybe they find an ancient archive beneath some bumfuck forgeworld.

Maybe their advantage is being so fucking far from the Imperium, or >>53433239

>>53442021
>Actually, it's 20. The Sons of the Sovereign guy pulled his legion due to life issues.
Or 19, if the PoB guy doesn't show up.

I have returned after 3 hour nap. Good morning everyone.

>>53433591
Present, gray and grumpy

>>53433591
Still here, still being the edgy Legion

>>53429563
Well, as my nametag implies, I am somewhat fluent in Calixian lore, including its history, so should it be attacked I can provide knowledge of the place and its people (Adranti, Yu'Vath, Slaught and a few other, less notable groups) and its lore should it be explored by a faction. I won't force my ideas on this project, the last one I did that on had atrocious enough results, even as those results were well contained.

Y'know, everyone's asking how the Mechanicum moves Mars, but didn't they move Ullanor in the OU for kicks and giggles or something?

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Ladies and Gentlemen, I am working out the fluff and everything now; But I present...The Ussaran Liberators

>>53443902
Actually I want to tear my eyes out. What is this???

>>53444049
I fix gunslinger warp shenanigans and you dare mock the coming revolution!? Filthy Bolshevik! We shall fight for Glorious Mother Ussar!

>>53443875
>Orks
A completely different beast.

>>53443902
>>53444049
I actually like it.

>>53444235
This just means you are OUT!!!


>>53444214
Well...yes...that is the Gunslingerstyle. At least we yell at you while we shoot from behind.

I'm making a roster on the spreadsheet. Please fill it out.

>>53444971
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fw8Bnyof8qEEwdt7qJJR8m_wS-4cp9lM_BUQm2gMXKw/edit?usp=sharing

If you could hyperlink this for the Leviathans, that would be great. Just tag it as incomplete history and fluff bits.

>>53444971
Is that towards me or just in general?

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>>53445000
I'm not an editor, I just...

Goddammit, I'm turning into Weeaboo Lumey.

Look, I'm sure you can... Figure it out or something?
>>53445092
Towards you. I'm gonna need you specifically to find every contributor and put them on the roster so we can tell who's active or not. Make it happen, clap clap, hop to it, earn your pay.

>>53445119
Alrighty, I'll start reaching out on discord and whatnot. Should I through the Ussaran's on their in the Souls slot as well?

>>53445139
I was joking!

Most others are filling it out on their own, and I already started several of them. As for the Ussarans... Who?

>>53445166
>As for the Ussarans... Who?
Wait, stupid question. Do you have a link to their doc anywhere?

>>53445180
Currently not home but I've spitballing with DoctorJobs and all that really needs to be done is make the Page. Give me like...an hour?

>>53441448
Nnnnnnnope. After all that pressure to have the Steels be Seps, and then me finally accepting it, they're staying Seps, lol.

>>53442021
>Maybe they find an ancient archive beneath some bumfuck forgeworld.
So you want to be some fucking hack that invents your own lore in order to make something viable? Why not also make a threat that's way more dangerous than Chaos? Why not makes the Tyranids arrive in 30K?

Malcador betraying the Imperium and teleporting Mars across the Imperium is a million times more believable and more acceptable than the Separatists achieving any sort of technological advancement on their own. This is fucking 40K, not your shitty homebrew setting.

>>53443902
>donaldtrumpcallingthingstheworstdealinthehistoryofdeals.jpg

Lord Jesus and all the saints, what is that paint. Red and olive green might work okay together, but why is it in that zebra-stripe gum pattern?

>>53445433
It's supposed to look soviet-y.

>>53445451
Hmm. I got more of a Christmas vibe from it, but ok.

>>53445414
Lol. You got something you need to say to me, then? Go on, get it out there, instead of saltmining like a lil bitch.

>>53445486
Why would I have anything against you, when you're the only person that's contributed anything of value to this project?

>>53445520
Oh, the sarcasm. It burns. Such pain. Much salt.

Look, if you too are gonna rub egos against each other, get a room.

>>53445559
Whatever, if you've got something against one of the few people here who acknowledges just how much you've contributed to the project, that's your choice. You've helped making this AU feel like 40K instead of the stagnant shitty homebrew setting it was threatening to become.

>>53445568
Wow, telling people to get a room after... 4 posts. You must be a real speedster in bed, lol.

I proposed the Malcador idea. I ain't told not one of you that the project *has* to adopt anything. Go ahead, do whatever.

>>53445623
I don't see the logic in throwing shit at each other. You're overly defensive whenever things are questioned on your end but you're more than happy to throw opinions out. Lashing out at each other isn't a fucking productive way to do shit.

>>53445623
>>53445618
>>53445559
>>53445520
>>53445486

Guys, what's wrong? We are Herr to create something together and not to fight each other.

It you have probs, solve them

You guys do know that's a troll, right?

>>53445618
I don't believe you at all. But your statement has been acknowledged.

>>53445683
You don't see the sarcasm dripping off his posts? Ooook. Thread's about to sudoku soon anyway, so that's the last I'll say.

>>53445798
We'll solve them as soon as your garbage special snowflake legion is solved.

>>53445815
All too easy.

>>53445832
Oh no...a custom legion and it is snowflakey. Please help me solve the issue. And then we can solve your problem.. Yes yes yes.

or go and play with Girliman and your primarius penis marines.

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>>53445995
>Continues to reply to a troll

>>53445995
Diarrhea is worse than other forms of shit.

>>53446025
Yyyep.

Okay so just to spitball moving planet's seems a bit out of character. On the other hand having AdMech elements side with the Sepratists because of Emil and other Sep Primarch's being so tech heavy could be worked in without any real problem.
We could even say that's why the Imperial Creed takes off so much faster - all of AdMech who stay are the ones who buy that the Emperor as the Machine God is the truth so rather than having two cults in the Imperium you have the Imperial Creed and the Imperial Creed 2: This time with Gears.

Does that help? I feel like the Romance of the Three Warmasters/Galaxy Split in 3 are the only aspects of this rewrite that are really different from cannon but for some reason we've having trouble justifying the Sepratists.

>>53446135
There's nothing out of character about moving Mars. What are you talking about?

>>53446135
>I feel like the Romance of the Three Warmasters/Galaxy Split in 3 are the only aspects of this rewrite that are really different from cannon but for some reason we've having trouble justifying the Sepratists.
It could literally be a dozen reasons.
>>53446186
How is it in character? When has the Imperium ever moved a planet?

>>53446186
I feel like it;s a dividing issue and having the Sepratists take the 'heart' of Mars *(some kind of STC, some archive, taking the Fabricator General, ect) fits the themes of the Brotherwar more than stealing a planet.
If we want a Hyper-Religious Imperium fighting a Cyberpunk Separatist Confederacy wich high technology like every one is the Tau, cool but I feel that's not quite what everyone wants.

>>53446228
All the time? Malcador's shit is all about moving planets and moons in and out of the Warp. Boost up his power a little and he can easily take a small planet like Mars across the galaxy.

It's more logical than any plan we had for the Separatists before.

>>53446298
>cyberpunk separatist confederacy
Uh, keep up. Pretty much all of those ideas have been thrown out at this point and for the better rather than the worst. By taking Mars and the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Separatists have ordinary Imperial technology whereas the Imperials are likely reduced down to more barbaric technology rather than advanced stuff.
Also, the confederacy idea was bad. Now they're united underneath the Malcadorian interpretation of the Imperial Truth instead.

>>53446306
>All the time? Malcador's shit is all about moving planets and moons in and out of the Warp. Boost up his power a little and he can easily take a small planet like Mars across the galaxy.
He does it like once, and the moon just pops back out where it originally was so it never actually moved. Mars is also five times more massive than Titan, and moving it across the galaxy is an even greater feat.

>It's more logical than any plan we had for the Separatists before.

I'm not seeing it.
>>53446376
>Also, the confederacy idea was bad. Now they're united underneath the Malcadorian interpretation of the Imperial Truth instead.
No, they're still a confederacy.

>>53446412
Says who? The confederacy idea is literally awful and goes against all of the tenets of the Imperial Truth, which is the sole purpose of Malcador's Separatists.

>>53446439
>Says who? The confederacy idea is literally awful and goes against all of the tenets of the Imperial Truth, which is the sole purpose of Malcador's Separatists.
I didn't even know we were still going with them being /Malcador's/ separatists.

>>53446454
Well, we are. There's no other sensible ideas that have been proposed.

>>53446486
>>53435029

>>53446376
Fair enough. I was throwing out buzzwords; also I was more trying to convey the general feel of each state:
The Imperium is a massive theocratic state so everything is gilded, covered in religious icons and a number of things use religious termonology.
SO the Separatists, having embraced the Imperial Truth culturally should have different aesthetic. I was more going for the idea that everything is built with a brutalist, mechanical flair which lends itself to cyberpunk designs.
That being said could a more renissance feel for them work? Less overbearing cathedrals more personal salons/palaces. Both states should be at least flawed if nor dystopian but the ideals they cling to should look good.
Also I just like using the term confederacy and we haven't named them anything else yet; they could be a Senate for all I care.

I realize Chaos is left with next to no technology, because the progressive members of the Mechanicus just go with Seps instead of the Heretics this time around. How does that play out? It certainly fits with their cultural themes.

>>53446523
An idea with absolutely no mention of Malcador and absolutely no support, unlike Malcador. Frankly, it's a dull and flavorless idea that is utterly uninteresting and provides no reason for the Separatists to ever be on the same level as the other factions. I see absolutely nothing in that post that warrants consideration. We're sticking with Malcador's Separatists and if Rokuten is the Separatist Warmaster, he is nothing more than Malcador's obedient muscle.

>>53446486
>>53446523
Also, as I said, the "Malcador starts the Secession" line requires the Imperium to slip back into superstition in a few short years while the master of agents and assassins somehow struggles to reel in the situation. In reality, the reversion would take centuries if Malcador is actively opposing it.

>>53446585
Then it takes centuries or as long as it needs to take. It's still more interesting and logical than any other proposed idea.

>>53446584
>An idea with absolutely no mention of Malcador
Previously I also suggested >>53434539

>if Rokuten is the Separatist Warmaster, he is nothing more than Malcador's obedient muscle.
Less than obedient.
>>53446601
Correction, millennia.

And where does Chaos come into this?

>>53446557

It's part of this setting's canon that there are 8 Gods right? I guess they make up for it with the sheer power of the Warp

>>53446557
>I realize Chaos is left with next to no technology, because the progressive members of the Mechanicus just go with Seps instead of the Heretics this time around.
Not strictly speaking. There are things even the Separatists wouldn't approve of.
>>53446601
>It's still more interesting and logical than any other proposed idea.
Honestly, I think the various primarchs each having their own reason to secede or stay would be more interesting and logical.

>>53446677
And they could rely more in raiding to get some tech and twist it then with warp powers.

And sorry, sometimes I like talking to trolls. They have so sorry lives and it does not take mich effort to make them happy. But yeah,will ignore them in the future. (Most of the time)

>>53446676
There's no logic behind having him 'play' both sides when he's devoted the Imperial Truth and the Emperor first and foremost. It makes the most sense for him to turn his back on the group that abandons the Emperor's ideals. Also, millennia? You're moving the goalposts there quite a bit, buddy. Finally, if Rokuten wouldn't obediently serve Malcador, he wouldn't be selected as Warmaster. So either change his attitude so he fits the role or leave the Warmaster role to someone more appropriate like Emil.

>>53446751
>There's no logic behind having him 'play' both sides when he's devoted the Imperial Truth and the Emperor first and foremost.
There is if the Separatists secede without him.
>Also, millennia? You're moving the goalposts there quite a bit, buddy.
I thought about it for a second, then I realized it should be millennia.
>Finally, if Rokuten wouldn't obediently serve Malcador, he wouldn't be selected as Warmaster. So either change his attitude so he fits the role or leave the Warmaster role to someone more appropriate like Emil.
The Emperor was the one who decided the warmasters though.

>>53446814
Why would the Separatists cede together without someone charismatic and powerful enough to unite them? The Emperor united the loyalists, Chaos unites the traitors, what do the Separatists have? Malcador. Malcador is required for the Separatistis to work. As for Rokuten being Warmaster, his power over the other Separatists would be neutered almost immediately if he didn't obey Malcador perfectly.

This might be an AU but it's still 40K and canon characters should be more important and come before our shitty snowflakes. So just accept that your snowflake's place is to provide support for Malcador.

>>53446677
I think we got rid of that idea in favor of having the big four and a plethora of lesser gods, but the Forge Lords make new stuff all the time.

>>53446881
>Why would the Separatists cede together without someone charismatic and powerful enough to unite them? The Emperor united the loyalists, Chaos unites the traitors, what do the Separatists have?
Hatred for the Imperium.
>>53446881
>This might be an AU but it's still 40K and canon characters should be more important and come before our shitty snowflakes.
Malcador was second fiddle to the primarchs in the Horus Heresy though.

>our shitty snowflakes.
Who are you again?

>>53446932
Hatred is only a powerful, unifying force when empowered by Chaos. If they're united by hatred, then they're just Chaos traitors. As for Malcador being second fiddle, that changes after the Emperor gets injured and goes into hiding, allowing for the proliferation of religious dogma.

Hm, anon doing Pacha. Perhaps the Imperium, while more zealous, isn't as Exterminatus happy as in the OU, particularly given that the Separatists seized a considerable amount of manpower and that traitors might be more reliant on demons, making constantly purging people exposed to warp-related stuff unviable?

>>53446998
>Hatred is only a powerful, unifying force when empowered by Chaos.
Hatred is three fourths of the Imperial Creed. Hatred for the xeno, hatred for the mutant, hatred for the heretic, and love for the Emperor.
>If they're united by hatred, then they're just Chaos traitors. As for Malcador being second fiddle, that changes after the Emperor gets injured and goes into hiding, allowing for the proliferation of religious dogma.
Then Malcador uses the abundance of resources available to him as the Emperor's regent to crush them.

>>53447040
They're not really that exterminatus-happy anyway, as they only use it in extreme circumstances. If anything, the larger number of daemons means more exterminatus.

>>53447041
With the Emperor and the creed of the Ecclesiarchy being the only thing keeping them together. Hatred alone isn't powerful enough and leads only to Chaos. Also, if the Emperor's resources were abundant enough to prevent that sort of thing, the Horus Heresy would have never occurred. Just accept that the plot works best with Malcador taking Mars and leading the Separatists to a brighter future defined by the Imperial Truth.

>>53447092
I was meaning more in terms of not instapurging the Imperium's civilians or IGs when they see daemons

>>53447159
>With the Emperor and the creed of the Ecclesiarchy being the only thing keeping them together. Hatred alone isn't powerful enough and leads only to Chaos.
Except it doesn't lead to Chaos, as I just proved.
>Also, if the Emperor's resources were abundant enough to prevent that sort of thing, the Horus Heresy would have never occurred.
The traitors had the backing of Chaos, and also took half of the Imperium with them. A religious rebirth would be a slow process, perhaps even impossible when Malcador is at the head of the Imperium, especially the Officio Assassinorum.

>>53447168
One or two villages wiped out is nothing in the Imperium, even if its size is smaller.

>>53446881
Dude you're not even trolling right. You're just holding up a sign that says "I am a troll".

>>53447243
Quick note, Chaos took a third of the Imperium with them in the Heresy, not half.

>>53447243
Canonically, characters that put their hatred before their love of the Emperor are more vulnerable to Chaos. Characters that are defined by their hatred are destined to fall to Chaos. See Avitus. Besides, this misses the original point. Chaos and the Emperor are huge, monumental things to rally around. Personal hate and dislike of the Imperium aren't big enough for an entire faction to rally around, they need a figurehead and that figurehead is totally Malcador and his Imperial Truth.

>>53447260
And who are you?! All you anons look the same to me!

His post at least resembled a legitimate criticism, so I replied to it.

>>53447274
Noted, but you get what I'm saying?

>>53447296
>Personal hate and dislike of the Imperium aren't big enough for an entire faction to rally around
Yeah it is. It's the basis for real-life revolutions all the time.

>>53447320
Real life revolutions aren't plagued by a psychoactive parallel universe that twists and corrupts the negative emotions of sapient species.

>>53447243
Try telling that to Pacha or his Golden Mountains, they probably at least as fierce as the OU Salamanders in terms of saving civilians and IG.

>>53447361
Not seeing how that's relevant.

>>53447402
In 40K, characters that are ruled by their negative emotions without something to counterbalance them end up transforming into mentally unstable devotees of Chaos. Without Malcador to rally around, they're destined become minions of Chaos if they're driven solely by negative emotion.

>>53447442
I don't believe you for some reason.

>>53447458
There's evidence of traitors throughout the history of the Imperium that are corrupted because their negative emotions overcome their devotion to the Emperor and the Imperium. Like, look at 80% of the potential traitors in DoW2. There's other examples too.

Malcador is the only thing that would keep the Separatists from being anything more than Traitors by another name.

>>53447538
>Malcador is the only thing that would keep the Separatists from being anything more than Traitors by another name.
They already are though.

Perhaps they each have their own beliefs that prevent them from falling to Chaos.

>>53447553
On the same scale Chaos, Malcador and the Emperor? Nah, not really feasible.

>>53447595
>On the same scale Chaos, Malcador and the Emperor? Nah, not really feasible.
What do you mean? If they need positive emotions to counteract Chaos (btw, two of the Chaos gods involve positive emotion), it doesn't need to be love for the Emperor or Malcador.

>>53447618
It needs to be something as universal as those, otherwise their underlings are bound to fall to Chaos themselves. Devotion to the Emperor and the Imperium saturates every level of the Imperium. What monolithic ideal would all of the Separatists be able to devote themselves to if not Malcador? Malcador is required for the Separatists to work.

>>53447658
They don't need a monolithic ideal. Each legion can have their own.

>>53446531
I support this, yes.

>>53446585
>>53446601
Could be that the emperor's enthronement sends shockwaves and the pro deification camp had already spread the cult.

>>53447669
Then they have absolutely no reason to work with one another and are likely to clash with each other and disintegrate. There is no room for weakness in 40K, as Emil has said. Besides, I doubt half of their motivations are as solid as the Ecclesiarchy or the Imperial Truth.

>3: Assuming the Seps survive in some fashion, how? I mentioned before that they lack both an Emperor or a God to provide them focus and protection, no central rallying cry. A confederation was proposed but this is 40k.

>Confederations eventually splinter, they rot from within, chaos sabotages them from without, and Imperial assassins take care of the rest. If not yoked together, 40k Humanity *will* diverge and crumble. And if you've decided the greatest leader Humanity has ever produced wasn't good enough, and you've decided that *your* opinions matter more, are you *really* going to listen so someone lesser for very long? And Chaos will always be driving those wedges further apart.

>>53447732
>Then they have absolutely no reason to work with one another and are likely to clash with each other and disintegrate.
Hatred for the Imperium.
>>Confederations eventually splinter, they rot from within, chaos sabotages them from without, and Imperial assassins take care of the rest.
And as I said before in response to this, this is also true of the Imperium.

>>And if you've decided the greatest leader Humanity has ever produced wasn't good enough, and you've decided that *your* opinions matter more, are you *really* going to listen so someone lesser for very long?
Either that or get crushed by the Imperium.

>>53447732
But we're in 30k. Things are a tad bit more relaxed.

>>53447805
Except the Imperium is a single monolithic entity, not a confederacy of multiple states with their self-interest in mind, constantly butting heads with each other. Also, if hatred of the Imperium is their defining trait that overcomes all other ideals then as said before, that leads to corruption by Chaos. All of this comes across as tacticool masterminds that are immune to the influence of Chaos because they're so enlightened and euphoric in their hatred for the Imperium. The Separatists need Malcador.

>>53447844
>Except the Imperium is a single monolithic entity, not a confederacy of multiple states with their self-interest in mind, constantly butting heads with each other.
Yep, sounds like the Imperium, except replace states with pretty much any organization of the Imperium.

>>53447844
>Also, if hatred of the Imperium is their defining trait that overcomes all other ideals then as said before, that leads to corruption by Chaos.
Never said it overcame all other ideals.
>All of this comes across as tacticool masterminds that are immune to the influence of Chaos because they're so enlightened and euphoric in their hatred for the Imperium.
Never said that.
>The Separatists need Malcador.
Confirmed troll.

>>53447890
Well, sorry to butt in... But I do believe the Separatists would be suspecible, albeit far from slaves to Chaos. Easier to corrupt than the faithful of the Emperor, but able to resist the influence of the Dark Gods, at least to an extent.

>>53447958
Agreed.

>>53447890
Almost all factions of the Imperium are all working for the continued existence of the Imperium as a whole and accept that they are all cogs in the same machine. A confederacy wouldn't be that. And if the hatred of the Imperium is the sole unifying ideal, then yes, it overrides all other ideals that the Separatists might have. You might not have said that but it certainly comes across as that - the Separatists just come across as the Knights Inductor 2.0. Finally, I'm not a troll. I'm just making sure you know that you need Malcador in the Separatists to make them work. Otherwise, this project is destined to descend into shitheap territory. Try listening to the few voices of sanity and who knows, maybe the next project you take part in you'll learn to speak out against awful legions like the Gunslingers, Death's Heads, Sons of Sovereignty, Pillars of Balance, Leviathan Host and Loxodontii.

>>53447991
>Almost all factions of the Imperium are all working for the continued existence of the Imperium as a whole and accept that they are all cogs in the same machine. A confederacy wouldn't be that. And if the hatred of the Imperium is the sole unifying ideal, then yes, it overrides all other ideals that the Separatists might have. You might not have said that but it certainly comes across as that - the Separatists just come across as the Knights Inductor 2.0. Finally, I'm not a troll. I'm just making sure you know that you need Malcador in the Separatists to make them work. Otherwise, this project is destined to descend into shitheap territory. Try listening to the few voices of sanity and who knows, maybe the next project you take part in you'll learn to speak out against awful legions like the Gunslingers, Death's Heads, Sons of Sovereignty, Pillars of Balance, Leviathan Host and Loxodontii.
Who are you?

>>53448017
A voice of reason.

>>53448037
Yeah, you're a troll.

>>53448058
Whatever floats your boat and keeps you from accepting that the Separatists need Malcador in order to avoid falling to Chaos and in order to have a technological advantage without raping the lore.

>>53447991
>Loxodontii are awful
Wow rude

>>53448177
>garbage name
>garbage scheme
>several narcissistic pages of non-interactive purple prose backstory that you expect others to read when you've pretty much decided everything that happens to your primarch and legion already
Yeah, it's trash. If you want to write a novel, go write a novel. This is an interactive exercise, not a show-and-tell for your snowflake legion.