>>53537098
He was posting in the last thread, so yes.

Zelbezis is actually built around the idea of becoming a head of state. That already puts him way ahead in my book. Plus, I feel like a Warmaster's legion should be slightly more vanilla. The Ogre Legion's Samurai theme is too prominent for me to consider them a good fit for Warmaster.

New Guy here again - will be posting as napoleon

>>53537436
Well now I am

>>53537257
Reminder that the current paradigm is:
>The Emperor gets Enthroned
>The Primarchs finish the campaign
>Malcador assumes the regency
>The Primarchs are iffy about this due to varying degrees of ambition and the like. Warmaster is supposed to be the Emperor's successor, right?
>Some legion violates an edict
>One of the Warmasters unilaterally enacts censure.
>This results in some violence
>Malcador tries to stop it.
>YOU'RE NOT MY DADDY
>Fighting continues until Chaos starts up the ruinstorm. At the time, Malcador is trying to negotiate with what will become the Revolutionaries, thinking to use his buddy Gyahdred as a way in.
>In desperation, Yochin is able to assume more control via the Ecclesiarchy. It also works, damn it.
>Someone else institutes an inquisition, perhaps Je'Sha himself.
>Some primarchs probably get dead.
>Meanwhile in the East, Malcador sets up the Grey Knights and the Inquisition.
>Eventually the ruinstorm drops and the Eastern and Western Imperiums each see the other and declare the other traitors.

>Malcador, if still alive, tries to assert his claim to the throne of Terra as regent.
>High Lords and Je'Sha or his sucessor tell him to fuck off.
>Gyahdred or Rokuten or whoever is all 'well we didn't want to come back either. Hell, if anything we're the real imperium and you're the traitors with your ecclesiarchy and shitty tax policy.'
>Je'Sha responds 'Well, you do tech-heresy and betrayed the Emperor and also consort with Malcador the Usurper. Beg forgiveness and I'll let you return, maybe.'
>Negotiations break down and fighting once again begins.

>>53537872
>Muffled laughter of thirsting gods in the distance.

So I'm thinking about a legion that uses the IG as the bulk of their forces. The Astartes would function mainly as a hard hitting elite within the army. I'm thinking an arctic "hardcore" theme with barbed wire and chipped armor. I'm thinking of giving the Astartes a raven guard sorta "flash attack" with jump packs as their preferred battle tactic.

>>53537257
Also, a prompt since I just thought of this:
Does your primarch have an honor guard or something akin to it? If so, what is it?

>>53538101
It's pretty niche.

The cooperation with non-Astartes is very Alpha Legion, but then the Alpha Legion does work on their own in their tacticool ways often enough, as well. You make them more closely integrated into the fighting force, but in turn reduce their actual field of combat. I assume the jump packs make them primarily close combatants?

It is not a bad tactic per sé, I often thought that Space Marines should exactly be that within the Imperial military. What makes me a bit unsure is can you apply their tactics or their mindset to other fields of combat?

>>53537377
Hmmm i don't think that the war master should be a ststebuilder. If so the emperor would have chosen Guilliman,not Horus. Horus was excellent in waging wars and get the job done. A tactical genius but not the organize an imperium guy.

So the 3 warmasters should become warmasters because they have the support oft the legions and can conquer. Holding comes afterwards.

>>53538101
Just a quick note, you're gonna be filling in a loyalist slot.

>>53537872
By the time the Ruinstorm finally drops, the Siege of Terra is already over, correct?

>>53538526
>Just a quick note, you're gonna be filling in a loyalist slot.
Probably.

>>53537377
>Zelbezis is actually built around the idea of becoming a head of state. That already puts him way ahead in my book.
Rokuten conquered his planet.
>Plus, I feel like a Warmaster's legion should be slightly more vanilla. The Ogre Legion's Samurai theme is too prominent for me to consider them a good fit for Warmaster.
In my opinion, the Legion's theme doesn't matter.

>>53538478
>>53538526
Unless they're the sep Warmaster. Then by all means. That was the allure of Gregoire in my opinion. Xun would have made a great revolutionary Warmaster.

>>53538674
Xun would have, yeah Gyahdred doesn't have the incredible charisma.

>>53538671
Most Primarchs conquered their planet. That's not really a big deal. Rising to the role of tyrant and having to rule with an iron fist is part of Zelbezis' thematics, which makes me think he's a far better choice for Warmaster.

>>53538637
He should keep in mind that he's gonna fill the Pillars' slot, so yes, probably.

>>53538796
>That's not really a big deal. Rising to the role of tyrant and having to rule with an iron fist is part of Zelbezis' thematics, which makes me think he's a far better choice for Warmaster.
That's not a very big deal either. It's pretty much the same thing.

>>53538526
That has not been answered. I would say no, because HOW and WHEN are we going to get a three-way brotherwar if one side is passive at the point of the third faction reconnecting with the rest?

If the heretics are defeated before the Revolutionaries return, then it's just them vs. loyalists. If the Revolutionaries just stay in their space, then it's just loyalist vs. heretics. If the Emps actually got axed, then the loyalists disperse and it's just heretics vs. revolutionaries.

In a way... Shouldn't the Siege of Terra end in basically a race between Heretics and Revolutionaries/Separatists of who gets to the Throneroom first and they basically shit eachother's shit up along the way?

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>>53538206
The "Escogidos": These are the best melee fighters in the Legion. They are part of Linares' retinue, and go with him to everywhere he goes. They carry power weapons and shields. The shields are a metaphor: a shields usually means protection, and as the Primarch's honour guard, they have to protect him (He doesn't needs them, but they carry them nonetheless) They are few in number, but highly effective.

Also

Kadir is in Ultima Segmentum. That means that, probably, is being cut from the Imperium itself. How do we manage this?

>Note: Kadir is not moving
>Another note: It's not falling, either

>>53539244
But the problem is, that if the Brotherwar goes 3 ways immediately, that means the Imperium goes full Ecclesiarchy in only a few short years, which would lead to certain Primarchs, Raj anyway, abandoning the Imperium and going with the Seps.

It could work if we really put emphasis on the Seps hating the fact that humans are now running the Imperium, and not as much on the abandoning of the Imperial Creed. In fact, much like in canon, the Ecclesiarchy shouldn´t rise up until after the Heresy.

>>53539411
Kadir being taken by the Seps is the only real solution I see for it.

>>53539219
I don´t know what are talking about. I say, let the guy specifically intended to become a tyrannical ruler become the tyrannical ruler. I get it, your dude has been given the role of Warmaster, for some reason, and now you´re digging in your heels, but whatever man. I wanna see what other people think about this.

>>53539494
It seems the only reasonable solution...
Maybe, if the Titan Marchers go Seps, they could let the Silver Blades be there and not fuck too much with them. After all, they were close battle—brothers.

>>53539494
>I say, let the guy specifically intended to become a tyrannical ruler become the tyrannical ruler.
But that's pretty much Rokuten as well.

>>53538206
The Veterans of the First and Third
These two chapters were chosen to be with the expeditionfleet of their primarch. Their veterans are now routinely chosen to escort their primarch on missions.

>>53539570
I never got that impression off of him. Rokuten is the HONORABRU Samurai warrior, that's his 'thing'. Zelbezis' 'thing' is being a tyrannical dictator. Pretty much all Primarchs have something in their backstory related to how they're great leaders of men and the like, but that's not special at all. Zelbezis is the only one where it's a core part of the character.

>>53539570
Yeah, but I don't want them to go Sep. Him dying while protecting the Imperial Palace riding a Titan is literally the first idea I had for the guy, before anything else.

>>53539494
>>53539570
The route of Astartes not wanting to let common humans be in charge should definitely be our choice. It makes the Revolutionaries engaged in combat, and takes away the goodguy appeal they'd have if it was about shutting off the ecclesiarchy.

As for the religious angle within the Loyalist Imperium, I say that the cult surrounding the Emperor isn't a fully organised force and that it is mostly through Yochin that they have a voice, at all. Like it's a bunch of contradictory confessions and interpretions with a very rough core ideal. They are a strong voice, but not a monopoly yet, which leaves enough room for Raj to try and uphold the ideals of the Imperial Truth.

>>53539747
Seriously dude. Seperatists. Not Revolutionaries, Seperatists.

Other than that, I agree with your post.

Iron Guard anon here. Initially, I planned on having Zelbezis be a right-hand figure to a more sociable Warmaster - a role Grégoire filled perfectly. But now... Rokuten doesn't strike me as having the necessary presence, though that could just be me not reading his character correctly. Gyahdred, my personal choice for a SepWarmaster, suffers from the same, being a non-religious Lorgar to our warmaster.

Zelbezis as warmaster would however be interesting in character development, having to lead Valorn and Piter while representing the kind of order they always fought for.

Tangentially related, just listened to the Binary Succession, and man is the council of Terra full of petty fuckers. No wonder the separatists fucked off.

>>53539765
How are they going to be "separate" if the goal is to take over the Imperium and cleanse it from the corruption of lesser humans?

I mean it was brought up: Post heresy, they wanna do their own thing. Be remote from the Imperium they feel is beyond hope. Fair enough.

But being a Separatist, with separatist emotions and goals, is not going to lead to a three way brother war. "Revolutionary" may be the wrong name, either, I admit that, however a more appropriate name eludes me.

>>53539986
As we're going the "baseline humans a shit" route, how about Supremacists?

>>53539986
The way I took it, the Seps' primary goal is independance from the Council of Terra. They'll start off simply wanting to 'seperate'. Once shit starts going down they might head to Terra, but mainly to cause the Imperials to capitulate.

>>53540053
Better. I've grown way too accustomed to calling them Seperatists.

>>53539746
The first mention is out of place, I was talking about Kadir entirely.

Yes, I know what do you mean...maybe the Post—shitstorm Marchers go seps...don't know. They are your Legion, after all.

Kadir is going to be a pain in the ass of the seps

>>53540153
Oh, yeah, totally, the Siege of Kadir would be dreadful, but it'd have to burn eventually.

And no, after Raj the Marchers can stay loyal. Without a Primarch, a legion is much easier to influence. They'll think that, since Raj died for the Imperium, they should stick with it.

>>53540110
It would bring about some implications on how strong their support with their own non-astartes personnel is. We can override this to a degree, I still wanted to mention that.

>>53540110
>Primary goal is independence from Council of Terra
This, I have to say, is arguable. Whenever I wrote any ideas regarding this issue, I have tried to bring it across as a matter of [ThirdFaction] trying to rebuild their prominence in the Imperial politics, and I have refuted any other option. I may be alone in this, though.

So, apart from "Supremacists", what other options do we have to name them? "Usurpers"?

I'm still in favour of "Revolutionists"

>>53540399
I like the idea of them being a political movement at first, that´s how they get Primarchs on their side in the first place.

Once it comes to war, they want to be seperate, because they doubt they can take Terra. Then the Traitors show up, and they realise they can take Terra.

>>53537257
Saw people talking about what the Separatists would actually call themselves. Brainstormed a few ideas.

Imperio/Imperium Ultima (because Ultima Segmentum)
Imperio/Imperium Vitae (because their empire is still "alive")
Crusade Eternal
The Great Crusade (fuck all yall who gave up we still in this bitch)
The Eastern Lords
Eastern March
Unbroken Worlds
Union of Man

Thoughts?


>Remain the Imperium of Mankind because fuck those guys squatting on Terra lololol

>>53539244
I always figured the 3-way war was mostly the 10,000 years of endless combat between all sides where none can get a lag up on another because of the third, not a literal flooding of three armies onto one planet/sector/group of sectors for some giant brawl.

Which I could only imagine going Chaos' way since after all, a 3-way fight is nothing *but* chaos unless one party can take the other two at the same time comfortably, lol.

But perhaps I've misinterpreted what everyone was going for in that regard.

>>53540521
Trying to overthrow the existing government to take their place is a political movement, though ;_;

I disagree about them not wanting to go to war initially. They got seven Astartes legions, they have the largest segmentum under their boot with tons of potential cannonfodder in the form of human auxiliaries. They were isolated through a warpstorm and when they reconnect it's like they see a loved one again they thought was dead. They're pissed that Terra is in unworthy hands, and they want their loved one back and unspoiled. So they take whatever they prepared in military power and just fucking go for it like Rambo.
That's how I always viewed it.
>>53540540
Ultima Smegmentum lololol I know i'm filthy but also a comedy genius

I think Imperium Vitae is probably most in line with my vision of the whole project so I'm casting my lot for that one.

>>53540706
I think we're getting to the case here. As far as I was concerned, and I think Xun reinforced that position as well, we were all focused on the timeline of the Horus Heresy and filling it with our custom ideas. I suggest we focus on that, because it keeps us contained and helps us be more focused on the project. 10'000 years is a hell of a timeline to fill and invites a lot of people straying into details that don't help build the general narrative.

>>53540238
Eventually, yes...or we can have a Cadia v2.0.

>Cadia eventually fell

Well...maybe just being ignored. Neither the IVth nor the Seps attack each other, so, laisser faisser, laisser passer.

Or they just besiege Kadir, and, seeing that it will be a difficult nut to crack, they just surround the planet without assaulting it,

>>53540948
What is a Virus Bomb?

Nah man, either Kadir burns, or it's in a different sector. It cannot survive against 7 (seven) legions on its own.

>>53540911
It could work, but we'd have to extend the war quite a bit though, from 7 years to 20 or something atleast.

>>53540540
The Ultima Union?

>>53541052
Sounds a little too Reed Richards/Susan Storm/Peter Parker-y to have both halves of the name start with U, but that's just my aesthetic sense.

>>53541052
Well, if there's no other option...I will move it.

>>53538338
Well I guess you're right. I love the idea of airborne Astartes though. Maybe instead of IG they used scouts in the same way? So standard procedure is to deploy scouts and Astartes to work in unity with one another.

A legion that values cooperation between Astartes and non-astartes could be really cool.

>>53540540
Key words to mash together:
>Confederation
>Confederacy
>Indepedent
>Systems
>Worlds
>Stars
>Union
>Ultima
>Eastern
>Man
>Human/ity
>Sovereign
>Fringe
>Halo

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>>53541589
Confedercy of Independent Systems, obviously...

>>53539746
>Rokuten is the HONORABRU Samurai warrior, that's his 'thing'.
You are horribly mistaken. Rokuten is an ambitious warlord out to conquer the Galaxy that only seems to be an honorable warrior to some.

>>53541719
>Rokuten is an ambitious warlord out to conquer the Galaxy that only seems to be an honorable warrior to some.

And how does this make him the perfect candidate for the Warmaster position? By that logic every Primarch who conquered his planet, was able to make an empire and dreams to subject the galaxy is eligible.

>>53541482
We technically have the Leviathan Host and the Soaring Host who employ parachute drop troops already. Actually, rereading the rough tactics laid down in the docs (forgive me I forget sometimes), your only difference to the Soaring Host would be that you don't explicitly use psykers.
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that I already suggested to other legions that you should try to explore more general areas of combat and strategy, or try to figure what exactly you want to achieve and which strategies help you in that endeavour.

In that regard, you are admittedly in a difficult spot because we're trying to be both different to the canon legions as well as to other fanon legions. In that regard I must admit people have been very lenient towards me and the Loxodontii.

>>53537257
>>>53541719
>>Rokuten is an ambitious warlord out to conquer the Galaxy that only seems to be an honorable warrior to some.
>
>And how does this make him the perfect candidate for the Warmaster position?
It doesn't, because there's no such perfect candidate.
He IS a master strategist though, and he's very good at hiding his intentions.

>>53541791
Yeah you're right, almost everything has been done before in one form or the other. Another idea I had, was Astartes being used in line formations with very strict discipline. I'm talking a single guy yelling "fire!" before each volley is shot at the enemy. Of course this would be very situational, but I'd be willing to expand on that idea to include tactics for vehicles and the sort as well.

>>53542011
Seems like a waste of their mobility, but Napoleonic Marines is an idea I have heard people toss around once or twice before.

>>53542011
Strict firing lines are the turf of Quaestor's Warden, already. WHAT we are lacking, though, is close combat legions. So what would you say about a Roman close combat legion with breaching shields in tight formation, using pistols and swords in tandem to soften up and push the enemy line?

>>53542114
Are we really lacking close combat legions? Last I checked, half of them seemed to have 'CQC specialist' tacked on.

>>53541869
>Hiding your true intentions
>From the Emperor
Yeah, that doesn't really work. I mean, the Emperor is a bit of an idiot, but he looks right through you.
And 'master strategist' is not something uniquely his. Zelbezis just makes way more sense. Zelbezis is a bit of a dick, but he's far more trustworthy, which is one of the key things the Emperor looks for in the Warmaster.

>>53542114
Definitely! Though I might try to come up with something different that Romans, since that theme is pretty overdone imo.

Thanks for the tip!

>>53542138
I checked and going through the tactic specialties, there's only three whom I can make out as explicit CQC legions (Golden Mountains, Silber blades and Pillars of Balance, the latter being in talks of being removed).

So, sure, those legions might be more close quarters when reading through their bios but in the docs we're still fairly low on melee legions.

>>53542220
Gunslingers also seem to specialize in close quarters, even if they use guns. I guess maybe one more if the Pillars are removed?

>>53542138
Close combat is always an odd thing for Marines. Strictly speaking almost *every* Legion in canon or AUs is good at CQC. It kinda comes with the turf of being a Marine, so saying you specialize in it is a little like saying "I specialize at being a human".

Even Angron/World Eaters specialize more in the sheer *brutality* of CQC more than CQC as a concept. Fulgrim and his boys also come close but they seek perfection in *everything* which just happens to include swordfighting.

>>53542209
Well, Romans/Macedons/Ancient Greeks are kinda-sorta the most distinguished example of high-discipline walls of shields and formation fighting, as far as I am aware that is. So it would definitely take some digging through history, or just ditch it all together and just say that's how your primarch learned to fight on his homeplanet, to justify it.

>>53542240
Right, the gunboos. And yeah, if we ditch the pillars as discussed then Newanon can sprinkle his stuff in.

I like Eastern Imperium.

We 30k-fy the split of rome. We could take some inspiration Form these and history in General.

>>53542209
Dude, just start out with something kinda weird, something not seen before. Either some obscure civilization, or animal or whatever. Add a bit of color and spice to the line-up.

The Civ 5 steam workshop is often a good place to look for aesthetically interesting civs

>>53542244
Silver Blades master the swords as their CCW, and have martial skill in very high regard. They are the kung—fu master to the heavyweight boxing champion

>>53542209
What about an carribean Voodoo Legion? Speaking kreol and using ritualized combat?


And yeah. Gunslingers love CC....with guns^^

>>53542337
We use an old terran Documentary for psycho indoctrination: Equilibrium

>>53542362
That'd make a good Traitor Legion I bet. If a bit cringy.

>>53542293
>JuggaLegion
>search your feelings, you know you want some Faygo
>magnetic weapons, magnetic weapons everyfuckingwhere

>>53542433
Not an excellent loyalist legion though, and I honestly don't think the loyalists need more Psykers. So unless one of the traitors wants to switch…? Keep in mind we should keep the Big Four covered.

>>53542244
At the core, an Astartes is good at everything, that is true, and especially when compared to regular humans they excel at everything even when they don't train it. However, even natural skills and strengths can be further honed. Hand-eye-coordination, stamina, you can always improve. To say a World Eater and a Raven Guard are at the same capacity for a good brawl would be unfair.

Also, there's more to tactics than just [gimmick]. If the World Eaters specialise in close combat, it means they apply lots of pressure to the frontline. They're making pushes to gain ground, to force the enemy back, and they're doing it as directly as possible. An ultramarine advances, takes position, fires, then advances again as the enemy retreats, but they might just as well hold position and pin them in place. I would assume a melee attack is more efficient in breaching lines.

So the question is again: what is the goal, the preference, of a primarch? What are the pros and cons of a tactic? In that regard, if a legion decides to go CQC, it isn't just because they're naturally better at it, they become naturally better because the focus on CQC yields benefits they choose over others.

>>53542202
I see your point. I mean, Horus ended up betraying him, but that was because 1.) That wasn't his intention from the start, and 2.) He had help from the Chaos Gods obscuring the future. Yeah, Zelbezis would be warmaster.

It does give me an idea for how Rokuten and maaaybe Zelbizis die, if Zelb anon wants to hear it.

>>53542209

Perhaps to give you a direction to work with; Instead of working off the idea of the Classical Greek or Roman EMPIRE's why not work within perhaps The Late Roman Empire (which was more or less a bunch of Saxo-Latin armies of essentially mercenaries) or instead of focusing on the Greek Phalanx why not work the angle of Alexander the Great's Companions: A heavily mechanized legion sort of like the White Scars meets the Ultramarines. Sky is the limit.

>>53542761
>A heavily mechanized legion sort of like the White Scars meets the Ultramarines
>Another tank legion

VENE AT ME, FRATER

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>>53542478
I want a muscly Joker as their primarch.
>>53542608
When you put it that way it makes me want to call the Ogre Legion a cqc legion since they're already four fourths of the way there.
>>53542209
Take from your favorite movies, or search for a specific category of people (like, say, fighter aces this was my idea years ago, please don't use it but there's nothing stopping you if you do) and base the culture on a mish-mash of theirs.
>>53542805
>VENE AT ME, FRATER
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIbMDoKW5Lh-wWhmBRPUvhS576QJWXZQqYyFBq_nd-Q/edit
Soon.

Did the Emperor hire mercenaries during the Great Crusade? I've got an idea for our version of the Solar Auxilia.

>>53543233
Probably not. Either you were in service to the Imperium or you were the enemy.

>>53543486
I mean in the very early unification wars days. Before he had really unlimited armies and the legions to count on.

>>53542209
Name your Primarch Darth Gokuverine.
Give them massive psykic powers that are focussed entirely around close combat also they have adamantine skeletons with increased marine regeneration. ;)

>>53542220
They're all Loyalists too yeah?

>>53543868
Now that you mention it: Yes, Loyalists have the monopoly on Melee legions.

>>53544460
The Leviathans are basically melee, but thematically focus more on their ability to get into melee rather than the melee itself.

I realise I'm running a bit late on the special units prompt but here it goes.

Cerebro Dreadnaught: A technology Lambach had Emil of the Steel Souls help in designing constructing the Cerebro Dreadnaught is heavily modified to amplify the Psykic powers of those interred within. Using Cerebro Dreadnaughts can be extremely dangerous, and Psykics without well-trained, disciplined minds put themselves at great risk when attempting to use it. This is due to the psykic feedback that users experience when operating a Cerebro Dreadnaught. As the device greatly enhances natural psykic ability, users who are unprepared for the sheer enormity of this increased psykic input can be quickly and easily overwhelmed, resulting in insanity or even death. The Advantages are seen by both Lambach and Emil as worth the risk.

Phalanx Squads: Having learnt a majority of knowledge on Miletus Lambach incorporated a tactic famously used by the PDF of the planet into his Legion. A Phalanx Squad is usually a ten man unit. The front five armed with Power spears and storm shields who protect the rear five armed with the units heavy and specialist ranged weapons. The unit differs from the more common practice breacher units deployed by other chapters in void battles in that a Phalanx squad is a lot less cumbersome due to the lighter gear they carry. Often times incorporating Psykers who focus on defensive capabilities to enhance the units rate of survival. Phalanx Squads are usually employed to hold certain objectives or as bodyguards for heavily armed Dreadnaughts.

>>53545114
And added a bit about how Lambach sees himself
>Lambach Kropor (Myself)
I realise that many of my brothers consider me ill prepared for the role I am to play and believe perhaps that I am unworthy of leading the people of the Imperium.
I see no reason to dissuade the notion, I'll simply allow my combat records to show for themselves exactly how efficient my Legion can be.
The truth is that I have no care for it. Unlike Rotuken or some others I have no desire to rule over a populace of cowering mortals. The people of Miletus lived happy lives in service to my Father's Imperium without my help and I imagine they will continue to do so.
At the end of the crusade it is my hope to simply guide Imperial governance using the vast array of knowledge at the disposal of the formidable minds my father has gifted my brothers and I.
I doubt our Father intended for us to rule, should the mortals stray to far from the path Father has laid down it will be our job to guide them back, not to force them, unless absolutely necessary.

>>53540110
I'd still go with the idea that they see themselves as the true Imperium.

>>53539843
Yeah, Gyahdred is not the sort to want to lead to the front.

I'll think about the Warmaster bit when I get home.

>>53539747
Augmented Magi are fine, though, I think.

I hope you guys are taking into account the fact that whoever the SepWarmaster ends up being, he'll have to be willing to use Einchurt and the VI as they were intended. If they're too soft Einchurt wouldn't have any issue with the idea of disposing of them.

>>53547002
>I hope you guys are taking into account the fact that whoever the SepWarmaster ends up being, he'll have to be willing to use Einchurt and the VI as they were intended.
God knows Rokuten is willing.

Are psychic Tech-Priests a thing? Has there ever been even one in the entire history of the Imperium?

>>53547094
I think the problem is removal of biological components reduces your presence in the Warp, and thus your psychic potential.

Source: I read it on 4Chan years ago.

>>53547094
There is some stuff with Zhao Arkkad, but I'm not sure if they're actually psychic techpriests or techpriests who do stuff with psytech.

Bumping before bed

>>53546591
>>53547002
So here's the problem I think I see:
The Chaos legions follow Marduk because he's Chaos supreme and crazy charismatic. He's Horus-esque.
The West follows Je'Sha because he's hero of humanity. He's like Sanguinius.
The East follows Rokuten because we need someone for them to follow.
There's not even quite a set of ideals. There's some legions who are in favor of a more authoritarian structure. Then there's Piter of the Proletariat.
Their big ideologue is accidentally Gyahdred, who really wants cleaner fiefdoms. But the best I can do for his motive for choosing Rokuten is that Rokuten is "Fun to be around".

If we insist on Rokuten, then either Gyahdred thinks he's malleable (fat chance), or Rokuten has another side to him.

The big advantage with Gregoire was that he had the well integrated command and control and the systemic vision to implement change in the Imperium. This, to me seems like the thing that would earn the loyalty of the Order people and of Gyahdred. Simultaneously, that sort of figure would appeal to someone like Piter.

To me it seems as though the Chaos Warmaster is a Priest. The Western Warmaster is a Warrior/Champion. The Eastern Warmaster ought to be a "Builder", but Rokuten is also a Warrior, not the thing to inspire Zb or Einchurt or Adras.
Painting by the numbers, so to speak, what I think we need is a Primarch who specializes in empire building.
He has an Ultramar type space and rules via an Astartes hybrid council, leveraging massive popular support by inspiring the masses, like Astartes commissars, pervasive propaganda, etc. Gulliman, Alexios, Xun, Gregoire, etc.
.

>>53549299
The idea would be a popular dictatorship, akin to perhaps Julius Caesar, but the key feature here would be that it would be progressive, rather than relying on conservativism. This approach would be required to gain the support of Gyahdred and I suspect Piter. Also makes it more grimdark when Utopia is to be built on the corpses of the dead. Besides, I'm in America and I'm tired of the talk of facists. The East is some sort of Empire, for the people, built on a greater future for all, not on fear. No Gods, No Kings, Only Men.
So we can whip up a Primarch, revive Gregoire, do a Xun expy in place of the pillars or what have you, but each of these has big problems.

Now, I do have one idea: Gyahdred.

As he is currently written Gyahdred is not the sort to become a Warmaster, but I've written him as conscious of his failings, analytic, and motivated to make change.
Might be that he takes some 50 years and, under the tutelage of Malcador, and with a lot of big data driven analytics, he manages to become unconventionally charismatic.
He'd still be secret and distant, but he'd have taken careful notes on his father and become something similar in persona. Gyahdred fights the things in the night so you may sleep soundly. Gyahdred keeps secrets too horrifying for the minds of men. Gyahdred walks with Shai Julie. He would, essentially, become a distant leader of a machine run realm.
And he would hate it. But he'd do it. And when he got old and critically wounded, they'd put him in a data loom and he'd manage things distantly and hate it.
All he ever wanted was his forge and a prosperous species, and now he has neither.

The Shield Wall

How could that be? Our own battle—brothers, the Chosen of Hecate, betraying us! Our beloved Emperor! After all these battles fought together!

The Silver Blades pushed against the formidable shield wall formed by the Chosen, without getting to break it in any point. Two squads found cover while pushing, and took positions there, providing fire support for their charging brothers. The sargeants spoke to each other, and made a plan: rotor cannons firing without pause, some battle—brothers shooting at the gunmen behind the shields, and the rest, charging towards them.

Two Blades charged together, in a hail of lead and splinters, shooting their sacred boltgun against their old battle— brothers. When at about 15 meters, they draw their Swords and charged, one of them jumping right into a shield, bringing it down. The other used that breach, and attacked the nearby Chosen. The gunmen behind killed the jumper Astartes, and more Blades breached through the whole made by him. The other Blade fought against 3 Chosen, surrounded by them and his comrades. The Chosen's movements were slow and cumbersome, their armors and bodies specially resilient. The Silver Sword couldn't penetrate their armor, it seemed like a lost fight. The rotor cannons appeared, and opened fire indiscriminately against the Chosen of Hecate. The shield wall was breached, but at a high cost. Thousands of Silver Blades still fought in that wall, not breaching it. Bolt rounds and swords striking hopelessly against the Chosen's shields.

When the fight finally finished, thousands of Silver Blades laid dead in a perfect straight line, where the shield wall originally was.

Okay guys, after waking up I read all your feedback and have decided on something a bit different than previous ideas.

As far as I can see there isn't really a legion in the AU that looks like this (though in canon 40k I wouldn't be surprised if you found similar).

So they have an overall napoleonic theme, and use grav-bikes with lances. They employ shock and awe tactics, with inital artillery to breach and soften any defensive positions. Before the dust has settled, the Astartes show up on their grav bikes, flying in at awesome speeds impaling their enemies.

So while they might come off initially as cqc experts, that isn't actually their prefered tactic, after disembarking the grav-bikes, they would grab a bolter from their bike, and engage in mid-range combat with organized tactics.

So obviously I'd have to flesh out the idea more, but what do you guys think?

>>53549822
So something akin to French Dragoons...I like this...and I already have Just what you need.

...wow I really am the Lucius Fox of the thread.

>>53549822
to expand a bit on themes- I'm thinking a really flashy and proud legion, a common characteristic for an Astartes would be vanity in the same way as the emperor's children is. But they aren't egotistical.

respect for other legions and non-astartes is a big value within the legion, and arrogancy towards others is shunned. I don't see them as being direspectful, ever. but they still value their legion and show an almost nationalistic proudness of it.

So to summarize: flashy colors, but a friendly face.

>>53549986
Exactly - French Dragoons.

You say you have what I need?

>>53550093
Not a jetbike, however I present to you;

> The Pursuer-Pattern Attack Bike:

A heavy modification of the standard Astartes Attack Bike, the Pursuer was developed to better support mobilr forms of combat. Designed as a more heavily armed and long lasting Attack Bike over the current patterns, the design sports a tricycle design, with the added space being made up of both the primary fusion reactor (similar to those used by the marines themselves) as well as an engine based off of the battle tested Rhino APC as a back up. This significant change not only kept the bike at the same top speed while increasing its combat load, but also allows hosts of Cossacks or other bike troops the ability to operate almost indefinitely. With these modifications made, the usual space dedicated to fuel has instead been given to storage for ammunition, rations and grenades. Finally the armament has been upgunned significantly, with the standard consisting of twin storm bolters and Two Astartes Grenade Launchers.

>>53549986
>>53550073
How do you feel about innovative tax policies and empire building?
Can I interest you in a position in an Imperium that still holds true to the Emperor's ideals?
I.e. >>53549299

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>>53550152
Sound great actually, I like it!

I was imagining grav bikes though, you think an even more modified version of the pursuer-pattern could work? You where the upgrade also made it grav?

almost like pic related, but with a lower profile and lighter body. something that would be ideal for maneuverability.

>>53550315
I shall take a crack at it

>>53550262
innovative tax policies... lol

Empire building sounds fun though. What areas are lacking right now?

>>53549299
>>53549356
First off, I'd like to make it clear that I agree with you that Rokuten does not fit the bill.

Now Gyahdred could certainly work, but I don't like the idea of you having to change your character in order to fit a particular role. I like Gyahdred as he is.
Whipping up a Primarch or reviving Gregoire is not ideal either, since we'd have to either boot our newfriend, or we'd have to up our roster to 24 legions, which is a no go to me.

>>53549822
>>53549986
>>53550073
>>53550262
>>53550367
I see where you're going Xun, and I have to say, good thinking.

Napoleon here could fit the bill as Seperatist Warmaster, assuming the Primarch acts a lot like the real Napoleon did.
A Napoleon Primarch would be a cunning strategist, a charismatic leader and an innovative ruler. Perfect fit for a Warmaster.

Would mean we'd have to move one of the Seperatists over to the Loyalists, but I think that we'll find someone who's willing.

>>53550367

>Escher-Pattern Jetbike

Designed from the same basic platform as the scimitar-pattern; the Escher-Pattern Jetbike was designed more for reconnaissance missions where combat was a high-probability. With a seat more centered on the chassis the marine riding had better ability to maneuver the bike, as the marine was now seated on the point of balance rather than behind it. To accommodate this change the chassis was widened slightly, with the generator slung directly beneath the rider while the engine was now moved to the rearward section; rather than remain at the prow of the bike.

To make up for the rearward weight a small pair of wings were added to the front portion, allowing the bike to make use of lift both generated by the repulser fields as well as natural air. To add some frontward weight to maintain balance while retaining the increased speed and maneuverability, a pair of Multi-Las laser systems were added to the front of the bike, as well as a storage unit within the front section for supplies. While these seemingly innocuous weapons seem harmless at first their incredible rate of fire are capable of suppressing infantry and buttoning vehicles, allowing seasoned pilots to harass units before screaming away on the retreat.

>>53550555
Seperatist warmaster would actually fit Napoleon great.

>>53550559
Perfect! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Lucius Fox!

>>53550555
> Would mean we'd have to move one of the Seperatists over to the Loyalists, but I think that we'll find someone who's willing.
Or Rotuken could go to Chaos like he first planned? Perhaps duke it out with Marduk for Choas warmaster?
Just a thought though.

>>53551052
But then one of the Chaos dudes would have to go Loyalist? I don't really see what the point of that would be. We can't really move any of the Traitors we have now without fucking up the balance of gods.

>>53551052
could Rokuten maybe stay loyalist? A loyalist who intends to go full Goge Vandire on the Imperium the first chance he gets, but a loyalist for the duration of the heresy.

>>53551360
Rokuten could work as a loyalist, but I think RokuAnon wants to go Sep. Up to him.

Personally, I was thinking that either the Pale Hounds or the Ussaran Liberators stay loyal, but, again, up to you guys.

>>53549822
Yeah, I really like this idea, and it would look great in propaganda if the Primarch would be the Separatist Warmaster. It would capture the hears and minds of the people and really whirl them into the charisma of a the leader they need after the ruinstorm appeared and split the imperium.
Also, I think the Eastern Imperium is fine. I like the Roman-esque feel about it

>Thread Prompt

What does the armour of your Primarch look like?

>>53549822
This is fantastic, Napboi. Keep it coming like this!

>>53551815
>>53551698
Glad you like it guys. I also think it'll make a great loyalist/seperatist legion. I'm thinking about names for the legion, colors and primarch.

Color-wise I'd go with blue-red-gold and maybe platinum silver, almost round. II like the image of their armour glimmering and shining in the sun as they ride into battle. I imagine dust and grime falling over them, from the coordinated bombardment.

>>53551892
don't know why the fuck I typed round, I meant white lol

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>>53551804
Raj wears a massive and robust artificer armor, somewhere in between regular power armor and a terminator suit, named Vinaashak. He has two bombard-looking missle launcher on his shoulders. He foregoes the regular helmet in favor of a retractable facemask, as he wears a massive turban on his head, like pic related pic related. The tuban is decorated with many symbols, including the Aquilla, Mechanicum skull, Titanicus T and Titan Marchers legion badge.
The armor is painted in the Marchers' traditional persian blue and blaze orange, though it's trims are decorated with patterns of silver, gold and black. Other than that, the armor is mostly practical, with wrist mounted shotguns, a flamethrower, and plenty of holsters for other weaponry. Raj is not an adept swordsman, possibly one of the weakest in the Primarch brotherhood, but he does carry around a ceremonial Kirpan sword.

>>53551965
>somewhere in between regular power armor and a terminator suit
Actually, fuck it, it's a full blown terminator suit, like Horus.

>>53545114
I don't think you should literally use the word "Cerebro", personally. Someone else did beat you to it a while ago.

>>53550559
>>53550152
Careful with making too many custom patterns for things. Eventually the reader won't have any idea what sort of equipment you're talking about without explaining it every time if there's 150 PokeVehicles in the armory.

Cool concept though.

>>53552194
The custom patterns are mainly directed at a legion with a specific niché. Whenever another legion uses bikes, they'll use the standard patterns.

I get what you mean by saying that a casual reader would have to be able to understand what's going on, but a casual reading won't know who these legions and characters are anyway. It only makes sense for an AU to have different variations in place of the canon ones.

>>53552141
Yeah, pretty much stole it straigjt from X-men, but it does exactly what I wanted ot to do, can essy change it though what would you suggest?

>>53551965
Kinda overequipped.

>>53551072
Haha. Rokuten goes for Khorne and Gunslingers stay loyal....that would be crazy, especially after most of the primarchs foresaw the treason of the Gunslingers^^

>>53550559
Can you design a jetbike pattenr which could be controlled via a neuro inplant? So that the gubslingers have their hands free to sjot their pistols additionally to the jetbike weapon

>>53551804
It's a regular silverish power armor, richly decorated, full of engravings and inscriptions. It has the Legion's coat of arms in the left pauldron, and an imperial eagle in the right one. A sheath is normally carried, at the right side of the belt, crossed in the back. The left forearm has been modified to fit some kind of weapon, but there isn't one there yet. The right hand is especially designed to improve the grip. Both forearms are reinforced, so it's possible to parry and block strikes with them. The power armor itself has been optimized for melee combat, and adapted to the Primarch's size

>>53552915
You think so? He has two cannons on his shoulders, a wrist mounted shotgun on one arm and a flamethrower on the other. Then he might have a bolter with him, maybe a grenade launcher? He has a power sword, but like I said, it's mostly ceremonial. He's equipped similarly to Perturabo. If you're thinking about it in a tabletop sense, he has a lot of options, but that doesn't mean he's gonna have access to everything.

>>53552956
I'm actually really liking the idea of the Gunslingers going Khornate. Not only does that add a shooty faction to the Chaos side, it's also a more original take on Khornate dudes. The Ogre Legion could work, but they'd be far less special.

Also, I'm not in favor of changing the factions any more than absolutely necessary.

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>>53553003

Perturabo has his autocannons and forgebreaker/thunderhammer. No rocketlauncher on his back. (I orientate myself on the fw rules and the mini)

Just a funny idea to have them switch places. And of course the shooty khorne guys and the gunkata are a creative way which I love. We just have to watch out that we don't push them too much into the world eater corner. Especially Deshain looks like Angron 2.0 with guns. have to change a bit to make him not a copy.

Well the armor for deschain. Mk4. Wait. I know exactly the armor.

Just add bulk to the upper body. Increase the shoulder pads. Paint the poncho red and remove the helmet-> deschain kane

Add add lots of ammunition belts. Across the chest across the hips.

>>53549372
Nice dude

>>53553171
>>53553182
And cowboy power boots and a hat, I'm assuming?

Well yeah, obviously Raj does not have exactly what Perturabo has. Being equipped with a shitton of guns is kind of his thing.

>>53553203
Yeah. Only that too much guns could look ridiculous. Something you see in an anime or on tau. But on a primarch? Personally I think limit it to three. One for each hand and then a cc weapon.


Hat would be funny. But....naaaa

>>53553455
>cowboy
>no hat
It just can't happen

Hmm... maybe I'll let the flamethrower go. Raj would pretty much be walking, Primarch version of a Tau battlesuit though. That's kind of the point, he's a living siege engine.

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>>53553455
>Yeah. Only that too much guns could look ridiculous. Something you see in an anime or on tau.
ASININE MORTAL

>>53553003
>The Ogre Legion could work
Seps m8

>>53553646
Yeah, I know. It got started by some discussion we had earlier on in the thread.

Good morning by the way?

>>53553455
Can't be a cowboy with no hat man. Even if it is some ancient Akubra that "borrowed" from Malcador.

Also I really like the idea of Raj bristling with weapons. He's like a miniature Titan himself.

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>>53553665
Good morning, how goes the jihad?

>>53553696
Pretty good, all things considered

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>>53553743
Good. Allahu Akbar.

>>53553799
Do I spot the beginnings of a scummy moustache?

>>53553806
I shaved it. The Army doesn't like facial hair.

>>53551804
As Lambach is more of a humble Primarch not as interested in adornment as some others, his armour is fairly simple, though still of exquisite make. It is the Bone white of the rest of the legion, polished to a near reflective sheen, trimmed by obsidian Black. His guard arm (left) is much more built up though as he favors using this to bear the brunt of melee strikes against him, while he wields his spear in his right hand. He prefers this built up arm to a shield as it leaves he free to either fire the pistol made by Raj, focus a power or wield his weapon two handed. Down the vambrace of his right arm is engraved the name of every captain who has fallen in the Chosen of Hecate crusade, chiseled by the Primarch himself. Lambach very rarely wears a helmet but on the rare occasion that he does for ceremony it would look very much like a greek Centurions. Finally as pretty much his only adornment he usually wears a large, thick cloak that shares a colour of the Legions robes and fastened around his right shoulder with a bronze Lion head to resemble the Nemean Lion slain by Heracles, one of Miletus favorite folk tales.

>>53553677
There is a small line between cool and ridiculous and I will not cross that line into ridiculous territory. However...without his armor he could wear a hat.

>>53537257
>>>53553677
>There is a small line between cool and ridiculous and I will not cross that line into ridiculous territory. However...without his armor he could wear a hat.
Nigga there are clowns that jump through hell.

>>53554671

Well, I look forward seeing your clownesque Interpretation of rokuten. The red nose is a must.

>>53554671
clown NINJAs

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That style would fit

>Has a legion recruiting from steppeworld nomads
>Can't even build a tent for festival season

My shame is supreme.

>Blogpost=end

>>53554862
Delet this!

>>53554914
Never. Wouldn't dare to steal your primarch the spotlight

>>53552990
No.

Not because I can't but because logically why would you need a bike like that? The Escher is built the way it is to allow a pilot to essentially steer and lean it with his legs; just as a horse can be. While I understand you want to go with the Wild West cowboy/ranger astetic do also keep in mind not every idea needs to have something unique to them to do so.

While it is true that yes I've designed at least one item so far for a few legions it was because In those cases the differences were enough that I would need to.

>>53555114
Well horses & cowboys..them I take the Escher

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>>53551804
Pacha's power armor proudly displays the colors of his legion. In place of a helm, he wears a golden headband with the Sun on his forehead (pic related). On his right shoulder, the head of a Cóndor and the head of a Puma on the left. His main weapons consist of a massive Storm Shield and Resolve, a pure adamantium hammer that doubles as a force weapon. In addition, he carries a Power Lance with an integrated bolter.

Quick question - is the Maelstrom as balls to the wall crazy as the Eye of Terror?

>>53556878
Probably, why do you ask?

>>53557502
well, I was thinking about what might happen to Valron post "Heresy" and considered the idea that he might head to the Maelstrom to found/lead a pirate proxy organisation against the loyalists (or the separatists if he has to swap sides). But if the Maelstrom is as crazy as the eye I'm not sure he'd go there, even if he was forming the proxy.

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>>53551804
Made a reference image for Marduk so it's easier to visualize.

Mostly a sort of art deco style with elements of stylized human physiques, the main color being a sort of very dark grey-green which on closer inspection is apparently either a black bronze or highly tarnished bronze. Trimmed and highlighted with images of sea monsters and geometric shapes in a light gold color. This trim spreads across more of his armor as the Crusades get closer to the Heresy, with the sea monsters overtaking and replacing any human icons by the Heresy itself. Shoulder insets are a dark and faded lavender-ish purple. His back has big wings styled to look like fins, spreading both up and down like the classical images of the historical Marduk or Tiamat's wings. An advanced grave-chute of some kind maybe? Long scrolls or lengths of fabric come down from under his shoulders like a priest, covered in symbols and text written in Dagonian (looks something like cuneiform mixed with Tibetan), a larger version of these fabric pieces is attached to his belt. No weapon in his off hand, but a medium sized cleaver or slashing/hacking sword in his main hand. Styled in a similar way to his trim with leviathans in gold but actually relatively simple.


Also, two things.

I find it interesting that a lot of people commented on Marduk's apparent dual nature as if one is the real him and the other is put on. In his mind, both are just as real and appropriate. He's like a shark, he glides around effortlessly most of the time but when he goes in for the kill he snaps into being a savage, merciless killing machine. This is just normal for him, he doesn't find it contradictory at all.

The other thing. Should Marduk die during the Heresy like Horus? I hadn't thought he would, but I realize it would make sense.

>>53559303
Nice reference pic. You definitely have a unique look, which honesty is very hard to acquire when practically everything has been done at this point.

Personally I actually never really liked that Horus died. It was so anticlimactic when I read it the first time.

>so now Horus' power hungry second in command, has taken the lead and they have been hiding in the warp for millenia, waiting...

like wtf sorta ending to the Horus Heresy is that? I've always felt that the warmaster would have been a better villain than that other guy (whose name I can't remember right now).

I dunno, I just think it sorta sucks...

>>53560077
It makes sense in the sort of long term degradation of the original setting. Chaos needs to be soundly put down as a serious threat for at least a couple thousand years so the Imperium can slowly become weak and vulnerable again as Chaos gains strength.


Here though, it's more Seps vs Loyalists with Chaos off to the side causing problems for both. Chaos overall has a rougher time because they're outnumbered, so the Warmaster surviving might make more sense.

I also haven't set up any second in command to take Marduk's place, though I have thought he sort of goes rogue from the greater Chaos cause as things progress post-heresy

>>53560077
It's because if they had of left Horus alive there would have been no one left to stop him. Unless they left Big E up. Or maybe Sanga.
I think they are retconning the fight for 8th ed though so maybe they are alive.

>>53560351
I think that if Girlyman and Dorn fight Horus, they would win. It would be an epic clash, too.

>>53556878
Smaller in terms of area covered alone.

Chaos is still Chaos once you cross that perimeter though. Hop the fence and shit gets real.

>>53549822
>>53550073
I can definitely get behind this.
And I'm assuming you've got an intense rivalry with the Questor's Wardens for reasons unclear to all but yourselves?

>>53550555
For reasons above, I definitely like Napoleon for Revolutionary Warmaster.
And Gyahdred likes it because it keeps him from Worst End.

>>53550583
Much awesome.

>somebody has to switch teams.
Lemme think about that. Rokuten is the easy answer, but >>53551072

I like gunslingers of Khorne.

I think the Triad of Napoleon, Gyahdred, and Piter.

Rokuten would he a pretty neat accidental Western legion, waiting for his shot to take over. He figures his personal charisma would work there, but not in the bureaucratic east.

It seems being French is a prerequisite for Supremacist Warmasterhood...

>>53561365
Gregoire was a shit choice for it, I don't get why he was shoved into it. Then again, so is the Ogre Legion guy and so is the imaginatively named "Napoleon."

I don't see why people are so against Emil being the Separatist Warmaster.

>>53561426
*I'm* against it because some retard was concern trolling the thread trying to use me as a weapon before.

If all the namefags said they wanted me to be Warmaster for some inexplicable reason? Maybe I'd listen. Internet randos stirring shit up? Not a chance.

>>53561481
What the fuck is "concern trolling"?

>>53561524
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=concern+trolling

Oh no...that guy again>>53561426

>>53561545
>RationalWiki
>Geek Feminism Wiki
>SJWiki

So uh, is that the sort of language we use around here?

>>53561597
I speak for myself.

>>53561481
That doesn't really seem like a legitimate reason to not do something. Don't let trolls dictate your actions.

>>53561481
Who would you like to be the leader of the separatists? Just asking for clarification

>>53561707
My actions didn't include wanting to be warmaster in the first place.

The only influence the troll had was that I made my wishes explicit to spite him and ensure that the other participants in the project never had any uncertainty to be preyed upon.

>>53561778
Literally anyone other than myself. There is a case to be made for each person's eligibility. I have no strong feelings on the subject one way or the other.

>>53551804
Gyahdred's plate is perpetually unfinished, to the point where he has several spare sets on standby. He has a parade set, but is forever upgrading it.

In general, though, it's pretty much exactly what you'd expect. Some sort of custom plate with servo arms arranged like the arms on a Tibetan Wisdom King.

I'm thinking he's got a massive dorje mace, open on the end for stabbing.

The armor itself has a number of tools built into it, rad furnaces, integrated weapons, auspex arrays, data djinn locii, an electrogheist field, anabaric resonators, etc etc.
The plate itself is micro etched with machine sutras and holy formulae, with stylised trim formed from icons of duhikeyii and sacred thingumbob rising from stylised seas and storms.

Im leaning towards a vaguely Qing Dyansty feel, in that regard.

>>53551804

Zelbezis is clad in power armor, similar in style to those worn by Mortarion and Ferrus. He bears a portcullis on his left shoulder, and a sword-and-scales symbol on his left. From these pauldrons flow chain pteryges. His right vambrace is thicker, studded with molecular rivets. His powerpack has three spear-heads on its top. He is armed with a power-Falx and initially a flamer until Raj gifts him with a heavy bolter named Thunderous Authority.

>>53562174
Cool man. I like 'Thunderous Authority', made me laugh. I'd love to write out something good for it, but I do not have SepMech's gift of item description.

>>53551804

When in the thick of combat Piter's suit is hard to miss. Around the wrists of the suit are two large adamantium cuffs with links of chains extending down to the feet, a reflection of the chains he first broke through during the revolution. In addition to these the suit is deeply detailed, with etching of battles from Ussar to the stars above.

However unique To Piter is that when he is permitted (see, when he gets away with it) The Iron Bear will often don a dress uniform more fitting of an officer of the Imperial Army, to try and reduce what intimidation he could in order to better mingle with the people. However to think that he is undefended they are sadly mistaken, For the clasp of his uniform's cape is a powerful Rossarium,

>>53537257
Did a little writefagging of a conversation the Emperor had with Emil, shortly before the Emperor leaves Nonimat IV to rejoin the Great Crusade while Emil focuses on getting to know his Legion.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EdVawmPwxTr2tPt4EbQWTMfih3y-Y-bnl1BmhEdD8MI/edit?usp=sharing

I feel like I came up with a cool secondary layer to why Emil has cybernetic limbs, and also to indirectly answer a question proposed a while back regarding how Emil resists the Warp's temptations.

Let me know what you guys think.

>>53562758
That's a really great image.

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>>53551804
If I had any photoshop or artistic skills whatsoever, I think Emil would look something kinda like this, but maybe bulked up to be a little more 40k-aesthetic, and with just a regular energy/force sword instead of a fugly-ass double blade.

I like the idea a lot of Emil not being a long-range "blaster" psyker but rather a close-range "enhancer/barrier" psyker, and being a lightning fast levitating swordsman fits that aesthetic quite nicely, imo.

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>>53565435
What Rokuten would look like.

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>>53565527
Aaight.

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>>53565559
Nah, but he's an ugly motherfucker. He has a bit of an underbite with pronounced canines that his lips barely cover when his mouth is shut, his brows have saggy skin, and his smile is really fucking creepy. At least he makes an effort to keep his hair clean.

This is in contrast to the white and blue colors of his ornate armor, fashioned in the likeness of O-Kan raiment.


Because I'm not done with the memes, his daughters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro8WoOIaOP8

>>53565695
Please let 1 of your special units be Ogryn Space Marines. Lol.

>>53565695
Lol. They way you describe it it almost sounds like if Konrad Curze stole Angron's original armor. :P

If someone needs to switch over to Loyalists, I'm happy to do so. Fuck, man, it's even in the document that I can move if need be

>>53566208
It literally doesn't matter. Just do it if you wanna.

>>53537257
zzzzzzzzzz

Good night, hated wretches of the Warmaster Thread.

Good morning everyone!

Anyone still here?

>>53569118
Yeah man just a bit at work. Trying to find some parts online to make a model for Radcliff Kaden.

>>53569203
Just read the fluff you wrote for him. Good stuff man. What did you have in mind with the parts?

>>53569118
Yupyup, just got to my desk.

Did you add yourself to the Anon Roster in the doc yet? What timezone are you in? Just wondering.
I'd also like to get your legion's basic fluff done and thematics done before the end of the day. Then we can also decide which Seps legion stays loyal.

>>53569282
Didn't add myself yet but I'm doing it now. Where should I write the fluff?

>>53569275
Thinking a dark angels body with a Grey Knight spear arm. I want to find him a cooler looking shield than standard storm shield though. And I can't find a good Bearded head that isn't just space wolf beard. I need a short close cropped beard with a normal head of hair.

>>53569319
So far we've all been using personal Google Docs. We paste the links into the Google Sheet in the OP. Feel free to check out some of the other Legions in case you're looking for a proper layout. Might also be good to know who your brothers are.

>>53569418
definitely will!

Having trouble coming up with a name for my legion tho... Thinking something along the lines of:

>Emperic Dragoneers

>Dragoneers de la mort

>dragoneers le triomphe

>>53569505
Keep it simple:

DRAGONEERS

>>53569505
Emperor's Dragoons could be nice, that doesn't click well with a Sep Warmaster. The Emperor's Children I get, they're just doing it to piss off the Imperium, but these dudes do not have luxury of being Chaos worshippers.

I'm not a fan of using actual french in the name. How does 'Dragoneers Triumphant' sound?

>>53569505
Dragoon Lancers? Something seems a bit off there. What are you thinking Primarch name wise?
I think straight up calling him Napoleon is a bit on the nose? Just my opinion.

>>53569648
>>53569657
>>53569742
Going with Dragoon Lancers just for now, might have to think of something else later.

For my primarch name, what do you guys think about Frederick Marsov?

Frederik is a royal name in my country, and i just think it's pretty nice, but I'm not quite sure.

>>53569784
With Dragoon Lancers I can't help but think of Dragonlance, the D&D setting.

Frederik is nice, Marsov seems a bit too Russian, but that might just be me not knowing where certain names come from.

>>53569784
I think the name's decent. Like I said was worried you'd go with Napoleon haha.
I am also going to change the name of the Protean Spear to Venus Gospel I think.

>>53569322
Hmm, I can't really help you with the head, but shields shouldn't be too hard to find. Looking foreward to seeing what you come up with.

>>53569811
Ahh that's what it was that was bugging me about it haha. I'd forgotten about the book series. Now I know why it sounded a little off to me haha.

>>53569816
Nah don't worry lol. Venus Gospel sound cool

>>53569841
Took me a second as well. It does kind of bug me too, but hey, it's Nap's choice.

>>53569853
Eh I don't know might change it. But I think it's hard because I feel like the Emperors Dragoons would be good, but if theire gonna be a seperatist legion that would only work as a pre-heresy name.

>>53569874
My personal suggestion is still the Dragoons Triumphant. It's the kind of name that sounds neat and also captures the noble attitude I'm getting from these guys.

>>53569811
>>53569816

>Frederick Aristide

What do you think about that?

>>53569874
Well, you could have the pre-split name be Emperor's Dragoons and post-split change it... perhaps something such as Lancers Corsair, Corsairs Triumphant. I'm not sure but you get the gist

>>53569903
Ahh Cosair.. I like that! Corsairs Triumphant I actually really dig.

>>53569899
Yeah I agree

>>53569784
Just popping in to say that I really like the direction this is taking.

Marsov sounds Russian to me.

>>53569816
Why Venus Gospel?


On the subject of legion special units:
>Khorba-Po
Among the XVth, nothing is wasted. Not all aspirants become astartes. Most, in fact, do not. Those who can be salvaged in mind and body often become legion serfs. Tenacious ones whose bodies cannot handle the implants are offered a place in the Thallaxine Shinpo. However, others are biologically compatible with the augmentation, but are driven mad. In most legions, these unfortunates are simply put out of their misery, a tragic waste according to the Magi of Stovokor and their legion counterparts.
Instead, these failed recruits become Khorba-Po. Under the knives of the apothecary-magi, they are shorn of their agonized higher mental functions and implanted with various stim-injectors and nerve probes.
Simultaneously, they are bulked similar to other genestock, with their hands replaced by an array of close combat implements.
Usually kept sedated, when employed in combat, they are pumped with frenzon and guided by prey-augurs into the heart of an enemy formation to rend flesh and shatter bones.
Of the same dark lineage as the Ogryn Charonite, the Khorba-Po are looked on with suspicion by many outside the legion, but they are considered extremely useful as a sacrificial melee unit by the XVth.

>>53569974
Thanks anon. And yeah I agree, I'm changing it to Aristide

So how do you guys decide which order the legions where discovered in?

>>53570181
We just pick the numbers. I think Frederick should actually be first or second.

>>53570191
If Frederick is supposed to be the face of the seperatists I actually agree. The same way Horus was Big E's fav boi I think the leader of the opposition should have that tragic and emotinal connection to the Loyalists.

>>53569974
I wasn't a huge fan of Protean spear if I'm honest, just didn't gel with me as an epic primarch weapon.
I googled famously named spears and that came up. I quite liked it.

So which Sep is going back over to the Loyalist side?

Considering everything I've read, this is my list, with the most likely candidate at the top:
>Rokuten
>Valorn
>Einchurt
>Piter
>Emil
>Zelbezis
>Gyahdred

>>53570536
I'd say Rokuten, he really doesn't fit the Separatist mindset.

Carrying on from my thoughts on Zelbezis and Gyahdred as potential warmasters, I realized that a warmaster is always part of a lesser triumvirate in his faction, the two others being an Ideologue and an Enforcer.

Two examples from cannonverse: Horus is the Warmaster, a charismatic figure with natural skill to lead his clusterfuck of a brotherhood. At his side stands Lorgar, a tribute to incompetence, but well learned in the Warp; and Mortarion, who has always been more loyal to Horus than Big E.

Imperium Secundus has Sanguinius forcibly take the role of Emperor, with the Battle Accountant as ideologue and the Lion as "Lord Protector"

Here, the Loyalists have Je'She for Warmaster, Yochin as Ideologue, and either Raj or Linares to enforce the Warmaster's rule.
The Supremacists have Frederick (or Rokuten if we're not at consensus on that) to lead them, Gyahdred to install tax reforms, and Dyestes to lock the discontent on prison planets.

Aaand I'll admit I don't know shit enough about the Chaos legions to go further.

Thread is a bit quite so I'm gonna try a thread prompt.
What is your Primarchs signature weapon and what are its properties?

>>53571770
Venus Gospel:
Made by Gyahdred to thank Lambach for assisting in his research into the ailment afflicting the Brotherhood of the Abyss. Venus Gospel is a pole arm of immense power. Gyahdred noticed that Lambach used an archaic silver bladed spear that looked like a twig in the mighty hands of a Primarch. He felt that it was unbecoming for a man of his Brothers stature. Venus Gospel, when powered down resembles nothing more than a thin, red metal staff. Though when Lambach forces his will into the haft of the weapon it ignites a blade of sheer Psykic energy that can cut through any metal like a hot knife slicing into butter. The more power Lambach pumps into the weapon the longer, brighter and more potent the blade can be. Also built into the haft is a heavy flamer for clearing large crowds.

>>53571770
Well I'll definitely need to find a name for it, but I'm picturing a great Halberd, he's extremely pro efficient with it (as a primarch should be) and on top of that he has a shorter Sabre which he uses for extremely close combat, or in unison with the Halberd.

He also carries a specially designed storm bolster which is attached to his wrist (like the grey knights).

Gonna have to flesh this out some more, but it's a start I guess.

>>53571984
Who? This is why namefagging is so helpful

>>53571770
Heavily modified stalker bolter Valorn named "The Pale Hound's Bite" as he was often called "The Pale Hound of the Rebellion" during the Taigan civil war. Not sure about the properties though, since its a primarch sized stalker bolter it might be firing higher calibre bullets than a normal one.

>>53571770
The Silver Slayer

A mighty old weapon, forged by the Primarch himself before getting to power. An adamantium-silver alloy was used in it's forging, maintaining the original characteristics of the adamantium, but with the bright and clean look of silver. At first, a simple bastard sword with a type-XIIIa blade, but after reuniting with the IVth Legion, Linares turned it into a powerful power sword, said to be able to cut an Astartes in two without any problem.

An Avatar of Kaine survived to getting it "sticked into their asses", as some guardsmen described the action

The Sword itself is Linares-sized, too big even for the average primarch, except, maybe, Pacha. It's perfectly balanced, being so easily to swing that a Silver Blade could do it without much aditional effort, despite weighting nearly 20Kg.

Its hilt is engraved in one of its sides with the following: Linares, the Giant. at the other, we can find what would become the Legion's battlecry: A Sangre Y Fuego. Under the grip's leather cover, the Primarch's adoptive parents' names are engraved, along some ancient Kadirian quotes, refering to swordsmanship, battling, and general courage. When Linares met his Legion, the fuller was engraved on one side with the following: Master of the IVth Legion, at the other with: The Lord of the Ale.

It's said that Linares sleeps with it at his side, and that he doesn't leaves Kadir without his silvery sword. So far, only thing that's for sure is the later.


Also, is that gift that Raj was making for Linares' description my duty, or Dr. RaJobs?

>>53572114
Yeah, turns out I'm absolutely garbage at writing cool item descriptions.

>>53572148
Okay, and don't worry about that. Everybody has his own skills.

>>53572148
For the pistol you were going to make Lambach, maybe something like a hand cannon type revolver that fires dragons breath rounds?

>>53569903
>>53569899
>>53569874

Aehm....guys...i think you oversaw something. They can call themselves emperors dragoons. Even if they split they are still loyal to the ideas of the emperor, remember? So emperors dragoons still fit after the split

>>53572439
Or Imperial Dragoons.

>>53572114
The Tickler

Seeing that the Lord of the Ale didn't had any sidearm, relying only in his mighty sword, Raj decided to gift him one.

And the chosen gift was boltgun hand-made from scratch, ready to be fitted in the letf foream mount, belt-fed, with the magazine located at the power pack, and able to fire different kinds of ammunition, and a faster rate of fire. It was also given recoil dampers, so it could be fired more easily while charging or fighting at melee.

The weapon itself was silver-coated, and richly engraved with floral motifs, along with a single inscription in the receiver: Because Titans can't wield Swords, but Primarchs can wield machine guns; reference to a conversation had by the primarchs about each other's fighting styles.

Linares likes the weapon, it's beautiful and, sincerely, practical. And most important, it's a brother's gift. He may not use it a lot, but he is not leaving it in the armory.

>>53572459
Only that imperial would be a conmection to the loyalists imperium. Whereas there is only one emperor vegetable of mankind, the imperium is ruled by the council of terra.

Deschain Kane has two combi pistols. With special ammunition. The bolterpart is shaped like a revolver. Left weapon is a volkite the other a plasma gun.

I really forgot how I named them. Maybe an fellow anon could look it up please? Otherwise I wpuld call them "ruin" and "devastation".

>>53572550
Despair and Conquest

Check your description file ;)

>>53540399
Maybe another option is "Rstorationists", both because they want to restore the old Imperium and also cause theres a delightful irony there considering some of the groups which have called themselves "Rstorationists" in the past

>>53572773
*restorationists*

>>53572791
Hey. That i like.

And thx silverish guy. Can't access the doc from my phone

>>53572021
>>53571984
Shit sorry, it's me napboi, I'm switching from my pc to my phone all the time so I forgot.

I'm talking about Frederick.

>>53572982
Now I have to write up a Primarch evaluation for your dude when you have his description and mannerisms locked in haha.

>>53573214
What do you mean a primarch evaluation? What do you use that for?

>>53569505
Just call them the Dragoons.

>>53573237
Look in my fliff document. Lambachs Brothers.

>>53573245
Yeah!!

>>53571770
Ashur often switches between a pair of mighty powerfists, Skyshatter and Thunderclap, and his trusted spiked maul, which is a relic of his own conquest of Babylon V. All three items are carved with inscriptions of ancient spells and good fortune.
Ashur perfers not to use close combat weapons, believing in the capacity of the tank gunners of his legion.

>>53573245
>>53574136
I would say Imperial Dragoons initially and later the Emperor's Dragoons.

Also why're they called Corsairs Triumphant in the doc? They're not involved in naval combat.

>>53572042
I suppose one of the unique traits might be the fact that it can switch between sniper mode and battle rifle mode, going from stronger shots and longer range but slower fire rate to less powerful shots and lower range but increased fire rate at the press of a button

>>53571770
Raj Vokar uses a large arsenal of weapons, including wrist mounted shotguns, bolters and a grenade launcher.

His most recognisable weapons are his shoulder mounted missle launchers, the 'Titanmongers'. These two cannons are handcrafted by Raj himself, with autoloading systems and improved targeting arrays, linking to his neural implants. This allows Raj to use them independantly from other weapons he carries.

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So how does the Mechanicus split up between the three factions? It seems like the Seps get the biggest group, then the Loyalists, then Chaos. Is that right?

>>53575976
That's about right, but the Forge Lords are pretty techy from consolidating power from the mechanicus before the heresy.

>>53571770

Into battle Piter Carries Volair, a squat handled thunder hammer. Though ornately detailed in gold and humming with a powerfield like any other, the hammer is tied to the early days of Piter's role as revolutionary. The handle, gnarled and twisted is made from the melted down remains of the shackles and chains that once held him in the factories of his youth,The gold inlays from the melted down badges of Tzarist commanders during the revolution and the adamantium head; Said to have been presented to Piter by The Emperor himself to be shaped into whatever form Piter wished. Artificers were quick to shape the lump into the form of a claw; Inspired by the great Usarran Bears that roamed the alpine woods.

A very personal item it is rare to see Volair out of its wielders sight, and while rare there are duplicates having been crafted by the Iron Bear himself and given to promising champions of the legion or even other Primarchs.

>>53571770
Resolve

When Pacha and his Legion returned to orbit, the Primarch remembered something, and asked of his father a weapon that wouldn't break from being swung by his arm. The Emperor gifted his newfound son with a warhammer of pure adamantium. Despite being intended originally as a weapon to crush through sheer momentum, Pacha also uses it as a force weapon; and despite its size and weight normally requiring a primarch to wield the hefty hammer with both hands, the Primarch of the Golden Mountains easily swings it with his main hand.

>>53537257
Grandmother's had a fall. May or may not be hospitalized. I may not be around this weekend, so if anyone needs me for anything, hold my calls.

>>53578623
Damn Emil, sorry to hear. Best of wishes friend

>>53578623
Sorry to hear it. Hope she gets well soon.

>>53578623
Shit man, similar thing happened in my family a couple of weeks back, it can be rough. Best of luck to you, your family and your grandma, ofcourse.

>>53578623
Not good man, hope she's ok mate.

>>53578623
That really sucks man. Hope she gets better soon

>>53578623
Hope your grandmother turns out alright.

>>53578623
I wish she recovers soon, bro. Stay strong!

Bump

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>tfw the same soldier who was getting chaptered for drug possession was the one who was possessing drugs, necessitating a floor-wide search

>>53578623
Hope everything goes alright!

>>53571770
I don't have a name for it yet, but Mot uses a two-handed flanged maul where the flanges have chain blades.

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>>53585112
The Scourge of Armok.

>>53585684
>Armok

We're not going back there.

>>53585112
Something simple but intimidating maybe, like Avalanche or Earthquake?

>>53585697
It is a pretty cool name though.
>>53585112
How about the Scourge of Tyrants?

>>53585697
Who?

I feel like the Ussaran Liberators can just drop the "Ussaran", it makes them sound more like the Imperial Guard than space marines.

>>53586308
In Hektor Heresy, there was a space marine legion named the Children of Armok. There was a huge stink to it. They also renamed the squats to komra, which is Armok backwards.

Armok is the god of blood in Dwarf Fortress btw.

>>53586308
Armok is the name of a god in Dwarf Fortress. In the HkH one of the main Chaos legions had it in their name, and along with a bunch of other bullshit the fact it was lifted straight from another piece of media caused a bit of kerfuffle.

What are some good novels about chaos? I just finished the Word Bearers omnibus and I'm hungry for more. I've heard mixed things about ADB but I also hear that the Night Lords trilogy is good, is it worth looking into?

>>53578623
Best of luck mate, hope everything goes well

>>53571501
Under- Rated Post.
I think Marduk has an easier time with ideology since chaos and all and he seems like a thearch. But the question of enforcing his will is a big one.
>>53570262
Roger. It's a neat name.
>>53570055
Sounds good.

>>53569974
>>53561859
^Anyone get a chance to look at those?

>>53586928
Yeah I was looking up weapon names for you to try and suit yours. I'm not sure how Qing Dynasty you wanted to go lol.

>>53587099
Mystic Crusher, Holy Comet, Bone crusher. I dunno.

>>53586928
It is a good question. I feel like the other members of Chaos haven't been discussed enough.

There was initially talk of Ashur being the Warmaster, and him ending up being puppeted or corrupted ala Theoden by his shamans/Marduk as the theological/magical leader of Chaos.

>>53586341
>komra
Never give up on your obsessions, Zorg.

>>53586928
>I think Marduk has an easier time with ideology since chaos and all and he seems like a thearch. But the question of enforcing his will is a big one.
I don't think it has to be to be honest, they are chaos. After the fall of Horus at Terra the chaos warbands didn't really band together, if anything they turned on each other and fought each other, they don't need to be united?

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>>53587266
You're not fooling me! I see all!

>>53587313
Sure you do.

Anyway. Speaking from experience, it might be a good idea to nominate some poor fool to write an outline of the general course of the civil war. Other contributors would need to review and propose edits, but if nobody has that responsibility you'll just end up with a static 'verse like Asunder.

>>53587383
I volunteer Sarco.

>>53587383
I would do it, if I weren't already doing the SepMech and the Ussarans.

>>53587420
>>53587588
As a general rule, the best candidate for this sort of thing is whoever gives the most feedback on other contributors' writing, because that's the person with the free time and interest in the project.

>>53587280
Fair point.
>>53587193
I personally like that approach. Makes sense if we're thinking the Emperor was on top of things enough to have some reservations about Marduk's cult.

>>53587383
You make a good point. I'll do it. I tend to do things like that and not put them someplace prominent.

>>53587147
Many thanks. I've been having a similar problem.

>>53586928
To add to that, I'm thinking the mace thing is pretty consistent, unlike the fluctuating components of his plate.
Pretty simple weapon with a powerful disruption field.
Ranged weapons and the like are built into the suit. He's got a cool gun and other gubbins, but the dorje mace is pretty simple. He can block with it, to an extent, but it's really a blunt, aggressive weapon. He depends on daggers in servo arms and mechadendrites to block swift blades.

Like if Gyahdred ever fought an Autarch... Ok, fine.
One time, Gyahdred fought an Eldar Blade Master on a burning world. The xeno's wraithbone blade cut the colors from the air and it approached eagerly, thinking that Gyahdred would be a slow combatant with such a bulky weapon.
This proved inaccurate, as a number of masterfully crafted blades held in servo limbs together proved capable of parrying the xeno's blade until Gyahdred had positioned his foe in the correct arc and a single swing of the massive mace reduced the Eldar Blade Master to a red mist.

>>53587420
I can do it if'n you guys want, but it'll be tomorrow night as I'm about to go to bed.

>>53587858
Yeah, putting Marduk in charge seems like a poor choice from the outset. The Big E would be able to tell that his son is hiding something from him, even if he also thinks it's probably not that dangerous. So he wouldn't put him in charge, no matter how good he is.

Hell, you could even go so far as to have the whole Nikaea thing actually be about Religion rather than Psykers. The Symphonius Disciples are the overt ones on trial, but Leviathan Host are also being scrutinized. It could work as a catalyst for religion taking off too, the martyring of it.

>>53587858
Your fight scene made me think of Gyahdred as General Greivous. Fighting with a bunch of limbs with different weapons.

>>53587890
I like that. It would make Nikea relevant again for us and it would explain a number of things. The timeline I'm picturing will be in the next post.

>>53585684
>>53585865
>>53585907
What about "Semper Tyranus"?

>>53587984
Or maybe simply "The Tyrant"

>>53587890
>>53587973
It might be kinder to new people if you keep Nikaea as-OU but not a big deal, then add a separate event (e.g. "Conclave of Kalkedon") for that purge of those betraying the Imperial Truth by embracing false gods.

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>>53571770
I'm really struggling to come up with a name for Marduk's weapon. Hell, I'm not even sure if it should have a name. It's like an extension of himself. It's hand, a tool. But it's also, of course, a religious artifact. It's the object by which he enacts the will of the Abyss on the world. Fighting isn't a goal in itself, nor is it an art. It's a process by which Marduk and his legion achieve goals. Their whole story revolves around motivation to achieve those goals, or what goals are really worth fighting for. In that sense, the cleaver represents Marduk's conviction and religious fervor.

As an object though, it's just a mastercrafted power weapon. Probably mastercrafted to a preposterous degree or some kind of archeotech/alien artifact. Like warscythe material or something. It is his own weapon after all, though he is monstrously skilled with it.

>>53588139
That's a good idea.

>>53588173
Try thinking about what Marduk's successors or cultists might call the thing after he's gone.

>>53587950
All the Primarchs go to see Star Wars
>Gyahdred sees Greivous and thinks "THAT EXACTLY IS WHAT MY LEGION NEEDS"
>Rokuten won't stop pretending he's Mace Windu
>Emil spends the next few days trying to build a light saber and soon comes to resent the Vader jokes.
>Einchurt is quiet afterwards but soon gets a poster of Grand Moff Tarkin, his new waifu.
>Linares cosplays Chewbacca
>Mot is irritated and puzzled that nobody compares him to Vader. Nobody does because they don't want to piss him off.
>Pacha is quiet, holding back from most of the discussion of droids and space battles. He's still wondering why the milk was blue.


>>53587973
>>53588139
Good point. Alright, so:
>Marduk and Yochin both do some religion. The Emperor is irritated, but it's not that big of a deal as neither of them is quite so bad at conquering as Lorgar. Mot is also up to no good, with some alleging that he's trying to set himself up as divinity. Marduk is the best of the bunch, keeping it as mostly legion only thing.
>Things draaaaag. Looking at you Yochin and Mot.
>The Emperor gets pissed.
>He's going to go yell at them and then it occurs to him that there's also the admech and he really ought to plan this out carefully so as to avoid causing problems. Good job, Emperor.
>Summons everyone to Kalkedon to discuss the Imperial Truth.
>No more religion, you guys. Except the Admech. What they're doing is fine. I'm thinking the best way to get this sort of thing to make sense is if it's sort of done up in parallel to Confucius on religion, see below. (I'm in grad school for ancient history. What can I say?)
>Prepares to implement, when OH SHIT MASSIVE WAAAAAGH
>Ullanor Crusade Ensues.
>Emperor is Vegetized.
>Yochin's cult, having not been disestablished because of the WAAAAAAAGH gets a huge boost because people are terrified.
>Ullanor is ended, the planet perhaps vaporized...

>>53588250
>Marduk and Yochin both do some religion. The Emperor is irritated, but it's not that big of a deal
That would be a big change from the OU.Primarchs are special cases, but it's a long-standing point of 40k fluff that the Emperor wanted to eradicate the veneration of deities other than the Void Dragon because such practices often empower Chaos.

>>53588250
>Ullanor campaign ends with the defeat of the Orks. But by this time, Yochin's cult has really spread some.
>There's some movement to disestablish Yochin, Mot, and Marduk's stuff, but none of it is particularly clear. The Crisis of Ullanor prevented things from being well managed.
>Rules as intended are clear. No religion except admech because they make stuff. Rules as written not so much.
>Yochin makes the case to Je'Sha that the cult holds the Imperium together and that the worshipers ought not be censured because they're mere mortals.
>Je'Sha thinks this sounds good because Imperial Cult worshiping mortals are often loyal citizens etc. In return, Yochin steps down as high priest and all that. From then on, mortals run the Ecclesiarchy. Astartes protect them, but do not rule them.
>Some people do not think this has gone far enough. Assur or Frederick order censure and Einchurt? eagerly complies.
>Things heat up from there.
>Years later, the Ecclesiarchy uses Kalkedon as justification for its monotheistic policies.

So what actually does Kalkedon say that causes so much trouble in interpretation?
Well, the problem is that the Emperor really did a good job wording the damn thing so as not to piss off the admech and to allow him a free hand to implement it as he saw fit. You see, the Big E hadn't counted on being vegetized.

I'm imagining something following off the classic:
We do not yet know how to serve humanity, how can we hope to serve gods?
Ours is the realm of the manifest, it is beneath us to speculate on superstition, goblins, and gods.

The catch here is that without the Emperor to push the censure of the Imperial Cult, Yochin rules lawyer that the Emperor is part of that manifest realm and he's not mere superstition. The Admech loophole is there, too, since Machine Spirit is distinctly measurable and quantifiable. Mot is easier to nail for encouraging superstition, but nobody's thinking of him until it's too late. As usual.

>>53587950
>Just going to point out in the OU there was a powersword that had no blade, just made a pure blade of energy.
>You could totally do this.

>>53588250
Make it so as part of banning religion he also throws out psykers? Just to shit in every ones scrambled eggs? Cause that's how Big E rolls?

>>53588243
That's actually really good advice. Though it still kinda comes up generic, because it would end up like the Cross, or the Rock. It's iconic for the faith, it ends up being totally singular. I guess just the Cleaver isn't so bad though. Maybe, the Breaker or the Shaper though.

>>53588250
I think there should be a little more to it. Like the Emperor antagonizes his own worshipers a little and is a little too lenient with the Mechanicus/militant atheism, which sets up the Seperatist schism. It ends up being mythologized by the Imperial Cult as some kind of great trial the Emperor intentionally puts them through to make sure they're truly faithful and it sets up the Seps believing they're vindicated in openly fighting the Loyalists.

>>53588389
Lambachs weapon does pretty much this.

>>53588413
If it ends up sounding generic in English, translate it into High Gothic.

>>53588373
I agree with you sort of. It takes him a while to respond to Lorgar's Imperial Cult, and that's really what I'm thinking. He's not ok with it, they shouldn't do it, but it's not yet a big enough deal that he feels like he needs to worry about it. Maybe it's a phase they'll grow out of. There's also the fact that there's a few of them, so he can't just do a Monarchia, like it's not that straightforwards since not everybody is worshiping him.

>>53588392
Sure.

>>53588413
That'd work pretty well. Still, I think he's not wholly neutral at the council, but he's not so emphatic or so clear that there's some wiggle room for Je'Sha and Yochin.

>M31
>Not calling the weapon Shai Hulud.

>>53588493
Shai Hulud isn't even very bad. Doesn't mean Eternal one or Somesuch in Arabic?

It could be something like one of the religious groups brings up a legion, probably the DH, doing some bullshit like shooting a bunch of people for hiding in a church despite surrendering and the Big E just brushes it off because ultimately he doesn't care how deplorable people behave so long as they fit his goals.

>>53588587
Thing of Eternity, or so I'm told. If you want me to... oh! How about Giš Tukul? That's the "Instrument of Aššur" from the Neo Assyrian period. They were erected thoughout the Empire as a sign of authority. Seems to have been a weapon of some sort. Giš Tukul is the standard means of transcribing the Sumerogram. (If memory serves, it's GIŠ.TUKUL, not GIŠ.tukul.) Giš just indicates it is made out of wood or something you can hold like a spear or sword, so I suppose you could just call it the Tukul of Aššur.

Also, Napoleon, please name a flagship Ultima Ratio Regum.

>>53588813
It doesn't even mean that does it? From what I've read it literally just translates "weapon". Which is pretty awesome.

Though Shai Hulud or something like that is growing on me, because of how I'm thinking of having Marduk be taken out of the picture. i'll elaborate on that in the morning. For now I'm gonna get to sleep. See you all tomorrow.

>>53588813
Shit! Wait, no, you're Marduk, not Aššur. Aššur gets the Giš Tukul. Marduk... perhaps the Muhuššu? It's that snake dragon thing, a leviathan, if you will.

Else šikni darû 'thing of Eternity'.

(Also, I'm loving the idea that the Babylonian deposes the Assyrian.)

>>53588925
Yeah, you're right too. I had a slight brain cart. Oracc also informs me that we suspect a reading of kakku for it.
It's a blade, weapon, army, divine emblem.
I bumped into it in the Neo-Assyrian annals while I was looking at Assyrian foreign policy, where they simply say they erect them. So we don't know what they actually built, whether it's a stele with a picture on it or a more concrete representation of a weapon.

Anyways, if you want anything I'm Assyrian, let me know. Same goes for Aššur. Or if Sarco wants anything in Phoenecian for Mot. Unless you guys all speak said languages.
Rokuten is on his own though.

>>53589062
Truth be told I'm pillaging myths and language from all over the near east from ancient through to medieval times for Leviathan stuff. Greek, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, even Arabic or Hebrew if the need or want arises.

I appreciate the help though. I'm a film major rather than history so I don't know much of the language, though I like to think I know a fair bit.

quick bump before I get to reading the thread

>>53588493
>Lorgar
Lorgar walked the line between hero-worship and religious worship for quite a long time. He wasn't the only one praising the Emperor's "god-like power and wisdom" in the day, it's just that he meant something a bit different. For the Emperor, that was something that could be seen as a phase.

In the AU, you've got Marduk flat out worshiping a destroyer goddess, Mot doing whatever he's doing (it's not explained in the google doc) and Yochin's rock & roll Lorgar act. So I don't really buy the idea that this set up is just like the OU when it comes to matters of faith.

But that's not so much a problem as a question. Your project is an AU: it should be different to the OU in some ways and similar in others. In the Hektor Heresy project, the main rule was "hands off the Emperor!" because it was felt that changing such a central figure would leave the universe incomprehensible. You don't have to do the same, but it would be a good idea to work out what is and what isn't fair game.

>>53589062
Thanks for the offer Xun, may come back to it. Right now though I'm content with keeping things "English", because honestly if it sounds dumb in English to people speaking English, it probably sounds or sounded dumb to people speaking the mesopotamian languages if it had a mesopotamian name.