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>>53828679
Destiny

>>53828679
Determine the ratio of space to magic.

>>53828679
What >>53828721 said, but use the actual cool lore and not the shitty in game lore. http://www.ishtar-collective.net/

>>53828750
Was there even any ingame lore I thought they shunted it off to their website for the CoDKiddies

>>53828785
"I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" and "That wizard came from the moon!" were about the limits of the lore prior to the DLC.
That being said Taken King was pretty cool.

>>53828785

There's a little, but it's just what was left after a dedicated writing team was forced by management to rewrite the script six months before the release date.

What's left in the Grimoire Cards is fantastic, wild, deep, and sometimes disturbing, not to mention frustratingly vague, though patterns do appear if you read enough of them. And they're even occasionally funny, too. I get the feeling from some of them the feeling I used to get when my parents read me bedtime stories, when the world was still so new and so full.

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>>53828721
isn't the space magic in that game just 'Light'? What's so good about it?

>>53829001
Destiny features a race that wrote outself out of time by accident, space bugs led by an immortal god king that cut through the concept of death itself, and four armed locust men chasing a giant silver sentient space station that goes around doling out super advanced technology as it flee's from a rolling space cloud of darkness that could be accurately described as 'The Nothing' from Never Ending Story

Then there's the legion whose basically just the Imperium of Man if everyone was a Space Marine

>>53829001

There's also Darkness. But they represent philosophical viewpoints rather than just generic "magic," each corresponding with an assumed answer to a question that is roughly equivalent to "what is the correct way to be?" or "what is the correct end-state of existence?"

Each faction seems to interpret and utilize these magics according to their own philosophies and how those shape their views on the correct state of existence. The Traveller and Darkness represent two distinct points, both very definite answers, while the other factions seem to represent answers as presented by the fable of three queens, which is outlined in the Grimoires by a character named Toland.

The greater context of the conflict revolves entirely around this question, where each faction becomes a focal point for an argument and to lose the argument means defeat, with final defeat meaning extinction. This story and confrontation, at least as hinted at in the context of the Grimoire cards and the expansions, is just one massive debate which could determine is humanity survives to live a second gilded age, or sputters out its final days much like the Fallen in their desperate bid to escape extinction.

>>53829037
>>53829150
Let's not forget the Cthulhu Genie Dragons.

>>53829170

Oh, yes. Also those guys.

>>53829170
The dragons were wiped out

Of this you can be sure, oh reader mine

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>>53829150
>three queens

I drive myself to the edge of madness trying to explain the truth.

It's so simple. Elegant like a knife point. It explains - this is not hyperbole, this is the farthest thing from exaggeration - EVERYTHING.

But you lay it out and they stare at you like you've just been exhaling dust. Maybe they're missing some underlying scaffold of truth. Maybe they are all propped on a bed of lies that must be burned away.

Why does anything exist?

No no no no no don't reach for that word. There's no 'reason'. That's teleology and teleology will stitch your eyelids shut.

Why do we have atoms? Because atomic matter is more stable than the primordial broth. Atoms defeated the broth. That was the first war. There were two ways to be and one of them won. And everything that came next was made of atoms.

Atoms made stars. Stars made galaxies. Worlds simmered down to rock and acid and in those smoking primal seas the first living molecule learned to copy itself. All of this happened by the one law, the blind law, which exists without mind or meaning. It's the simplest law but it has no worshippers here (out there, though, out there - !)

(1/3)

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>>53830227
HOW DO I EXPLAIN IT it's so simple WHY DON'T YOU SEE

Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything.

The future belongs to one of these queens. Her rule is harshest and her people are unhappy. But she rules.

This explains everything, understand? This is why the universe is the way it is, and not some other way. Existence is a game that everything plays, and some strategies are winners: the ability to exist, to shape existence, to remake it so that your descendants - molecules or stars or people or ideas - will flourish, and others will find no ground to grow.

And as the universe ticks on towards the close, the great players will face each other. In the next round there will be three queens and all of them will have armies, and now it will be a battle of swords - until one discovers the cannon, or the plague, or the killing word.

Everything is becoming more ruthless and in the end only the most ruthless will remain (LOOK UP AT THE SKY) and they will hunt the territories of the night and extinguish the first glint of competition before it can even understand what it faces or why it has transgressed. This is the shape of victory: to rule the universe so absolutely that nothing will ever exist except by your consent. This is the queen at the end of time, whose sovereignty is eternal because no other sovereign can defeat it. And there is no reason for it, no more than there was reason for the victory of the atom. It is simply the winning play.

(2/3)

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>>53830233
Of course, it might be that there was another country, with other queens, and in this country they sat down together and made one law and one tower and one army to guard their borders. This is the dream of small minds: a gentle place ringed in spears.

But I do not think those spears will hold against the queen of the country of armies. And that is all that will matter in the end.

(3/3)

Ghost Fragment: Darkness 3
-- From the Journals of Toland, the Shattered

>>53829170

Nevermind the fact that the Worm gods could themselves be Ahemkhara that have simply sided with the Darkness in the same way that the Leviathan sided with the light and they come into existence it seems whenever the Traveler seeds life because there was an Alien race that the Hive fought who hated the fact they had worm like gods themselves in the form of the Wish Dragons

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>>53830242
So, is Ghaul the Queen of the Country of Armies then?

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>>53830257
Perhaps

It's certainly the most fitting, but it could also apply to the Hive or Taken

>>53830233
>The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just
Hive
>>53830233
>The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars
Vex
>>53830233
>The third queen raises an army and conquers everything
Legion

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>>53828679

Psionics, usually. The more risky and madness-inducing the better.

>>53830242
Toland was a big sissy who lusted for Aurash's futa cock.

—The Sky is the harder way. But it is kinder.—

Darkness worshippers are pussies.

Largely, I'm just trying to voice my distaste for people taking Toland at his word.

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>>53830257
>8
>Only army without space magic
>Manages to fuck a group of demi gods sideways.

Why are the Cabal so based?

>>53830304
Ironically they're pretty much Humanity Fuck Yeah but not humans

>>53828679
Start with magic that someone actually believes in then codify it a bit, space it up, and twist it to be more convenient for you. Pick an actual magic though, the regurgitated D&D magic that's common in pop culture doesn't mean anything to anyone.

A lot of sci fi tropes come from the same time the Human Potential Movement was around, so if you pick something up from that (and they believed in a whole lot of loopy nonsense), you'll naturally get things that feel a bit like they fit. For example, that was when westerners found out about Buddhism and misinterpreted it as "go with the flow man" and yes that's dumb but that shit gave us Star Wars.

Rationalwiki is a good catalog of nonsense people believe in. Spirit Science is one crank's grand unified theory of crazy new age shit (try the Sacred Geometry or Human History videos).

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>>53830302
Look man, he's a warlock and he wanted to get dat booty call with Xyor and he got it but then again thatnks to him probably whispering shit to Eris for god knows how long she was stuck on the moon they were able to get us the info we needed on the Hive. Hell He's like Osiris in a way but no one will give him any respect (not that he needs or wants it).

>>53830343
Outlaw Star also had actual sorcerers who appeared to be some sort of esoteric shamans

>>53830304
Because they're not trapped by some system of worship/magic/science like the Hive and Vex are. The Fallen might have actually beaten the City as well had there been more of them.

>>53830358

A lot of chinese space magic, apparently the Tenppa Emperor was the strongest magic user

>>53830370
>implying the exact orders Ghaul received weren't "crush them, o general mine"

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>>53830302
Of course.

But he offers some of the most in-depth analysis of the Darkness itself, along with the Hive. I also rather like the card where he gets mad at the Guardians who killed Oryx.

---

Where are you going? No, wait, listen.

I was right, at first. In the ever-expanding Blighted-place, even Light must obey the sword-logic. Even you Guardians, you best and brightest of the dying dawn, you drew blood in honor of the Taken King. The Warpriest did his duty, and you did yours. Oryx was challenged, yes, but challenged in the way of the Hive, which is to say that challenge is worship — is challenge — is power. Sword-logic. You played your part well.

You were not supposed to touch the Light.

How did you find your way into the King's Cellars? How did you even recognize that benighted draught for what it was? Do you not know that the Hive pursue Light precisely for the purpose of devouring it with slavering jaws and slick greedy gulping throats? How did you take (or rather, un-Take) the Blighted Light that Oryx gathered to offer in sacrifice to Akka, and ignite it so that it burned and burned the Darkness?

It was barely Light anymore. But you took it. And when you took it, you did not keep it. You set it free.

You fools! You disastrous, bumbling squanderers! It's not right! Who now shall be First Navigator, Lord of Shapes, harrowed god, Taken King? Not you! You might have been Kings and Queens of the Deep! But you have toppled Oryx and you have not replaced him!

There must be a strongest one. It is the architecture of these spaces.

Why are you leaving?

-- King's Fall

>>53830382

Apparently this may set up room for Nokris to assume the mantle of King. The taken are still in D2 and then there's the fact Oryx's sisters are still out there and the Dreadnaught is still floating around Saturn.

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>>53830304
Because only the Cabal (and the Fallen, but they're on the run) understood that the only way to properly threaten the Guardians was to attack their power at the source.

>>53830381
Ghaul is the Cabal emperor

He overthrew the previous guy in charge and made a beeline for Sol

>>53830370
They would have overtaken the City had the House of Wolves not been stopped in the Reef by the Awoken fleet and their Queen.

>>53830377

The guys who make the shells were different though, right? There was just something about their method that was fading from the world, hence the limited shells.

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>>53830416

Reading about the conflict between the Reef and the House of Wolves was very satisfying and gave an awesome sense of scale. I mean, they threw a goddamn moon at the fucking Fallen but the Fallen were pulling off some slick shit against the Awoken as well

>>53830304
Honestly, what he did to the Traveller is gonna pan out to be a colossal mistake. Mark my words, he didn't trap the Light, he just freed it once and for all.


>It feels like lead and neutronium and electroweak matter fashioned into a moon-sized ball that you must carry as you move.

The Traveller is a prison.

>>53830444

yes, the group that made the shells had a different sort of magic from the chinese magic of the Kei Pirates. With the Mana drying up they had to condense the magic into shells thus creating Caster guns.

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>>53830467
He also made the mistake of angering a system's worth of formerly paracasual space zombies.

Sure they don't have power no, but just give it a little time.

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>>53830502

Light or no light that nigga's getting a shotty to the face. It worked on Oryx it'll work on him.

>>53830338

this stuff is interesting reading at least, thumbs up

>>53828679
-Nanomachines
-Derpium metal/alloy
-Hyrpidium particles
-Zeranderpadoo radiation

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>>53828679
In-setting, is it seen as science or magic?
Is it a reproducible, controllable system, or something esoteric that many don't even believe in, let alone trust?
Eclipse Phase has pyschic powers, FTL gates, and soul transplants. All of which are fucking space magic as far as we're concerned, but it's all about the presentation. Most EP transhumans don't even know Psi exists, they think it's witchcraft. The Gates are treated more like 'fantasy magic' - not fully understood, definitely dangerous, but people can control them.
And soul transplants, complete brain rewriting, is considered about as banal as cosmetic surgery by most people.

(wait 40k FTL vs Star Wars FTL is a way better example)

>>53828679
Bene Gesserit

>>53830338
Isn' Rationalwiki super lefty? I mean I'm a pretty big liberal but I can FEEL the bias when I read articles there.

>>53830444

For whatever reason the concept of mana disappeared from the universe. Both Tao magic and the Caster shells use what little mana is left.

>>53835641
It's a little left by normal standards, extremely left by 4chan standards.

If you need resources to pass an ideological purity test before you're willing to use them, you've got a problem.

>>53828679
Well, for starters you should tell folk that you don't want trouble in your place. And then if'n they don't heed your request you use them cosmic space powers of the Force Galatic to show 'em why they should adhere to your desire to be free of trouble. Trouble in your place.

>>53830257
The more I see this design the more retarded it looks. What happened to bungie? Why cant they into aesthetics anymore?

>>53830293

Conversely, there's a few possibilities that are implied by the existence of the three absolutes:

>Joker Queen; pragmatist who chooses her Queenly style to suit her needs
The Reef
>No Queen; no philosophy, just desperation for any argument
The Fallen

>>53829037
I'm just terrified that they'll actually end up deciding that The Traveler and The Darkness are the same thing. That is straight up the worst trope in fiction.
If that's what the story team was going for before they got Corporate Executive'd to death, then I'm not wasting tears on them.

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>>53836003
I'm not sure what your major malfunction is.

>>53831592
I was thinking a bit like the force except there's no real duality like lightside/darkside more just different philosophies that aren't inherently good or evil

>>53830242
Very Kirkbrideish. And cool! Why wasn't any of this in the game?!

>>53828679
*activate autistic but true saying*

To the uneducated technology can be mistaken for magic

>>53828679
You use phrases like 'high-energy exotic particles' and 'synthetic singularity events' to explain all the bullhit and then get on with the story.

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>>53828679
Best space wizard.

>>53829150
>>53830257
>>53830273
>>53830293
I think the point is that the Darkness is the Queen of Armies. Other races have tried to be the Queen of Laws or Queen of Towers, but they all fall before the Darkness and are assimilated. Every race has tried to follow the light, but they all eventually become the Darkness, the Queen of Armies, because it's the only way to survive.
The humans are still at that stage where they believe they can win without becoming ruthless and savage. But so far no one ever has.

>>53830416
>>53830449
The problem I have with destiny is the scale of it. It seems like it jumps all over the place.
Like, "oh, we only have a single planet and our enemies have huge galactic empires but they haven't brought it to bear on us, but oh look now they have, but like three people can sneak on their warship and kill their god" and "we're so thinly spread now, every loss we take is irreplaceable, but this guy killed thousands of guardians and you just capped his ass, but we're still gonna give you no street cred and treat you like you're new".
And my personal favorite, "You just killed an Archon! This could cripple the Fallen!"

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Very Carefully.

>>53838106
The Light was winning on Fundament till the Krill totally bitched out and ruined everything forever.

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Do it the way Outlaw Star did, by not explaining anything.

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>>53828679
By not treating the magic as mundane, making it something that is 'known but not fully known'. Give the space magic a sense of awe of wonder to it, just like how you should with space games in general.

>>53838424
That's normal. Number of authors who can get scale to stay consistent is really low.

>>53839424
I thought it was pretty clear.

magic was disappearing from the galaxy the more humanity explored space because they were using the source of magic on different planets as starship fuel.

>>53840543
Wasn't he pretty much Evola tier irrelevant?

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>>53828679
shiny with lots of big ass lights

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>>53835664
>>53830444
I've always wanted to play a wizard in a fantasy setting who decided he wanted to get rich by creating caster guns and shells. He could charge ridiculous amounts of money to sell magical spells in the shapes of the shells, which could only be activated by the guns he also made, to users who otherwise couldn't use magic.

>>53830338
>that was when westerners found out about Buddhism and misinterpreted it as "go with the flow man"
No they interpreted Taoism as that.

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>>53843321
Shiny with lots of big ass.

I'm going to write a story on a superhero setting where people are combining learned skills for the first time, like Science, Magic, Chi, and alien powers.

Won't be for a long while since I've got a long queue to work through, but it will be in the next 5-10 years.

This'd be a good litmus test for how I want to do it.

Basically science and technology are the universe's law. Magic is the law of other universes applied to our own. So fire here is not something that is alive or has any thought, but in a magical universe it might. The biggest difference is that most of those universes are "legalist" universes. They work like classic mythology.

Our universe is based off of fixed laws. We evolved, everything has rules it follows and it's the same as normal science. Magic is the science of other universes - particularly those without the concept of science.

Mad science is actually the same thing, except instead of physically bringing energy or creatures or concepts here it's putting your own brain slightly out of phase. You share knowledge with yourself in alternate universes, allowing for the development of technology from other universes that works like in that universe, and vice versa. You might get a fancy ice gun, your counterpart might build a regular gun. Mad scientists often seem mad because their values are jumbled up with their alternate universal selves.

Across the multiverse there are infinite possibilities. So there are an infinite number of universes with different laws and standards. There are also an infinite number of dead ones, or empty ones, and there's simultaneously no universes at all. So it's hard to discover new magic - that's why superhero mages are so strong and knowledge is hoarded closely. Magic can potentially do ANYTHING, it's dangerous. It's also utterly alien.

Magic can work like law, passed down by a god and imposed on reality. It can work like science, ordered and repeatable. It can work wildly and unpredictably or otherwise.

Forbidden technology.

>>53829001
I love that Hive Necromancy isn't just shit like raising the dead as puppets.

It's conceptual bullshit like "Hiding your death" so that reality can't find it.

>>53843657
Every alien race has its own strengths and weaknesses and discoveries. Some may have discovered various universes naturally attuned to their nature. So one race might have learned to integrate magic with their technology. There is no such thing as FTL Travel or magic in the natural universe, but their racial magic can potentially break any boundary. They simply teach it to everyone, naturally "get it" and even build it into themselves. The connections to magic are based on their own nature as a species.

This is why, in spite of a thousand thousand races out there just near to us there's still a galactic economy and galactic trade. Some races can build FTL drives, others can build super ships, others can build teleporters that don't kill you. It's magic, attuned to and learned by their race. Made universal and specially tuned to them.

Many superpowers are created by this process. Power from other universes is drawn by them naturally. Most races have just a few natural superpowers they engineer into their own genes based on their magic.

Humans would have a particular strength as well, which would be endurance and versatility. We're not very strong, fast or smart as unenhanced humans - but if you teach us all magic, spirit skills, psychic powers and make us masters of native technology we'll be absolute gods. Most aliens have already realized this potential and are not gods. Most races are fairly narrowly defined and specialized. They might get one or two powers and master technology to an extent. Some are generalists but get wiped out when they prove too disruptive to galactic society.

So basically:

Tech is our universe.

Mad Science and Magic and Superpowers = same thing. All are just power taken from other universes with different "natural" law.

>>53838040
>>53839206
>>53828679
For traditional games, either Star Wars or 40k.

>>53843664
I love it when people mix in cosmic horror or just straight Lovecraft references in as the method of doing that, like the world building for Cthulhutech. If I were homebrewing a setting I'd say that manipulation of zero point energy and the quantum vacuum is the first point where science gets Mad. This has a couple of funny implications for our own world.
>Emdrives are arcanotech engines, no matter how slow and shitty they are
>microwave ovens are basically extra shitty emdrives so we've been using arcanotech starship engines to make popcorn for over 60 years
>Turns out there's a simple modification which turns a commercial microwave into the Event Horizon's Gravity Drive. Cue the mother of all product recalls when some asshole posts instructions on /x/ and /diy/

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>>53830343
>>53844316
I feel like there's a potential for cosmic horror with firearms, like what the Thorn from Destiny was trying to be. Like, a weapon that is more effective the better you understand how it works, but the more insane you go for knowing it. The more you delve into its inner workings, you realize that it's not so much a mechanical device as it is a focal point for twisted and convoluted realms of malevolent power. And it's not the gun itself that's evil, it just harnesses and channels a tiny avenue for these forces, but you never know for sure if those forces are properly held in check.

And there's a man, a warrior who wielded the gun for a long time, but was consumed by it and became a gibbering madman in the gutter, but the scraps of coherency you can get out of him offer a deeper understanding of the gun, at the cost of your own sanity.
And then one day, when dire forces are invading and all seems lost, and the last man to use the gun is killed, it clatters from his hand... right at the feet of the madman. He picks it up, loads it with fingers that have stopped trembling for the first time in years, looks up with a thoughtful expression, and blows four ships out of the sky.
And they find him when the battle has been won, completely catatonic.

As opposed to the Thorn, which is like "this gun is super dark and cool and drives anybody who uses it insane but there's no drawbacks and you're gonna need all three people to run it in Trials of Osiris to stand a chance"

>>53839832
This. Though the same could be said about magic in general.

Either go with the above anon's advice, making a scifi world where magic is still awe inspiring and powerful, or level-up standard fantasy into industrial fantasy. As soon as those Gaigax humans/dwarves/orcs figured out how to make things air tight they'd try to fly up, and probably run I to star/meteor/nova elves or whatever.

You could try for Star Wars but a little better written and more subtle. Magicians operating in small numbers, their art equal parts belief and logic.

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>>53839832
What a small riftborn.

>>53836003
>What happened to bungie?
The good people mostly left (or got chased out), and those that stayed are being led by a little man with a vindictive nature and an inferiority complex.

>>53845498
his name is loie and he is a powerful industrialist

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Idea:
>all wizards do is alter the laws of reality within a set space thus allowing technology which would otherwise be impossible
eg. instead of casting a spell which affects gravity you would alter a specific space (like a space ship) to allow gravity manipulation machines to work within that space. The base universe would be hard sci-fi (or close to it) while wizards allow limited soft sci-fi technologies to be used.

Thoughts?

>>53828679
Read up on obsolete, premodern theories on space and science in general. Here's a start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_spheres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model

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I used chakras for mine. Check the pdf, it's actually a full system and setting. That's the old version but the second version is a WIP.

>>53828721
>correctly

>>53847360
I should elaborate on what I did for the magic: it was really a combination of chakras, 4D Celestial light (space angels) vs the shade of the Demonic Hellborne (space demons). The Solarians (who you play as a member of) are colonizing a previously mostly wiped out Milky Way from a war between the 4D Celestials and the Hellborne and the Alien civs that had banded together on either side of that war. Solarians had invented a chakra based light magic system called LiMa that was particularly adept, which peaked the interests of Turning Tree, the alien species that had banded together under the Celestials using their Light. Unfortunately the Hellborne and their alien covenant of the Bonded, stole LiMa and backwards engineered it into SHaMa, shadow magic, and in the game you can choose to level up both a LiMa skill tree and a ShaMa skill tree.

>>53844725

You've basically described two guns: The Bad JuJu which was Toland's experiment into understanding the Sword Logic and A Touch of malice which is a gun that is made from the Heart of Oryx himself shrouded in the robes of his Death Singer daughters. He left the Book of Sorrows expressly for the purpose of having his would be killers understand him and basically continue on with the great mission of achieving the Final Shape of the unvierse and to uphold the Sword Logic.

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http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

>>53845687
So each spaceship will need a number of wizards supporting "spells" for a ship to work at its full capacity?

Soldiers will be wizards who learn one or two tricks that work only in small radius affecting them and their equipment. Like say something that allows incredible battery capacity and much stronger armor.

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>>53847674
Man lore can be fun when writers have fun

>>53845687
>>53848512
>FTL/teleportation via repeatable divine intervention.
>A new religion is founded. Minor at first, until it demonstrates a miracle which it can repeat on demand. Whenever people genuinely believing in the religion perform the specific ritual, they can ask their deity to relocate something in the universe and it actually works. Your spaceship engine consists of getting a cleric to pray a request that you get teleported to your desired destination.

>Ideally throw in a setting initially based off the real world for an interesting story of social upheaval and space exploration suddenly becoming comparatively easy.

>I'd just make every religion capable of this, so it wouldn't matter if you're asking Allah or Mercury as long as you really believe in it.

>"By the good graces of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I beg of thee to guide our vessel with thine holiest of noodly appendages to our location so that we may partake of the righteous noodles of Dephanine V."
>Prayer-powered FTL works for pastafarians. Only for pastafarians. Heathens can be aboard the ship, but at least one Paladin is needed for hyperjump.
>Navigators using Meme Magic rather than Melange
>Clerics Of Kek serving as the engines for spelljammers built by SpaceX in a modern setting.

>>53845498
smol but incredibly motivated! highly efficient!

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>>53828679
Out there, beyond the galactic rim are the Stars. Bright lights that cannot possibly be the stars of other galaxies for one can see them from anywhere within the galaxy you're in and they always appear to be the same distance away. There are those who say that one who follows a Star's light can call upon the cosmic power each Star bears but only a madman would follow a Star that always seems to be Beyond The Horizon.

And yet they exist. Those whose bodies glimmer with the barely contained comic power of the Star they followed, each one a force within our own galaxy, shaping and toppeling the future as they and their Star see fit. For while each Starborn, as they have come to call themselves, tells the story of how they got to their Star, they all say the same thing about why they have this power: Its up to them to shine the light of the true future on the galaxy. What is the true future? Why does each Starborn seem to have a different true future than all the others? And how did all of this come about?

The mystery is out there, young voidwalker! Go out and find your own answers on your own Star!

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Go read Irregular at Magical High School and advance their technology by a few decades/centuries.

Pictured: Casting Assistant Devices(CADs). More information here:

http://mahouka-koukou-no-rettousei.wikia.com/wiki/Casting_Assistant_Device_(CAD)

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>>53828679
space dragons

>>53828721
Yo dump me some more cool destiny shit but only the cool shit

>>53829150
"The Darkness" is no longer canon. They are doing a soft reboot in the lore with D2.

>>53858126
Isnt it just that the Darkness has taken a backseat story wise as the Cabal fuck shit up?

>>53858169
That was what I thought.

>>53858169
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/16/15819680/bungie-destiny-2-the-darkness-luke-smith-interview-e3-2017

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/06/15/bungie-has-written-the-darkness-and-the-exo-stranger-out-of-destiny-2/#3a684a597f2f

>>53828721
That's not Warframe.

>>53859090
Those articles are pretty sensationalist. It's pretty clear from what Luke Smith actually says that they're just not gonna talk about it a lot or at all for D2. It'll be back at some point, but only once they're comfortable with it conceptually again. Probably D3.

I especially have doubts about their retconning it because Taken King seemed to have been written alongside D2, given the hints to the future story in it.

>>53859612
That's not how you spell Shitgame

>>53860092
That is most certainly one of the ways to spell it.

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>>53860145
You're damn right it is

>>53859942

Yeah, I took it as them saying that whatever original idea they had for the Darkness didn't pan out so they want to start over but otherwise the stuff they've done with the Hive seems set. That said, I've heard rumors that Nokris is somehow going to be involved but who knows and this is based on a twitter post where they posted a fanart of nokris. I still think Oryx's Sisters are going to come into play and the Hive are going to be a force to be reckoned with again.

>>53860200

>Mag and Banshee jealous of Saryn's Milf status

>>53859090

This seems kind of weird to say, unless they meant pre-Taken King they didn't have an idea of what the Darkness was. I got the impression from the Book of Sorrow that it was a counterpoint to the Traveler whose whole deal was survival of the fittest in contrast to the Traveler's no catch altruism.

Does make sense however to rethink how they reference the Darkness with regards to enemies since it seems like only the Hive, Taken, and maybe the Vex or a portion of them could be tied to the Darkness whereas the Fallen and Cabal are their own thing.

>>53862606
But that's Nova and Nyx, not Mag and Banshee.

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>>53857196

>>53866497
I always thought the Darkness was simply the void in the absence of light

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>>53857196

>>53862587
Hopefully the Vex worshipping it because its the only thing they are unable to comprehend stays. Its a really interesting plot point and really adds to the Vex.

>>53867477

I should think so because it's a component on how the Vex go about things.

They literally turn over entire planets to become super computers and use the computing power of entire solar systems to simulate reality but they can't simulate or even comprehend paracausality so their only logical response is to emulate religious praise. They simply go through the motions and hopefully get what they want out of it and this aspect is the most interesting of all considering the fact that by our standards they are already super powerful and have practically finished science by all intents and purposes.

>>53867456
Its has a will the Hive/Taken/Vex appear to be following, so it has sentience. Given how it empowers people and seemingly prefers to work through these agents I wouldn't be suprised if its an evil version of the Traveller's "race".

Read Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion

>>53868397
Love the Shuttle in the sword design.

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>>53828679
All you need is faith, trust and Endless dust.

>>53868582
Last of the Lost and their dust now rotten
Drift as wrinkled dead moons
As the Endless grew its powers in a dust war
You strive to find solutions, restore harmony

Crossed the stars full of deep remorses
Stained and blurred and still collapsing
Worship all the Virtuals till the end
The ancient torn relics
Worship the
Endless
The order and the law
The shame one
has visioned just the truth

Freed the enslaved the broken lost hero
Is hunted down

Vodyani is rising from the dust
Hid in the temple seeking lost skills

Crossed the stars full of deep remorses
Stained and blurred and still collapsing
Worship all the Virtuals till the end
The ancient torn relics
Worship the Endless
The order and the law
The shame one
has vanished their fears

No one will witness what we've seen
It's just destroyed and reborn

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>>See this thread
>>Destiny lore, huh? Mite b gud.
>>When the Noun and the Other Noun used the Adjective to fight the Adverb...
>>mfw

It's like Tolkein's story where the Light fought the Darkness, and the Light won but only the Shiny Things were left, and the Darkness convinced the Forest to have a Fight for the Shiny Things and break them.

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>>53868397
>>53868567

>>53868992
I'd play it.

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>>53868397
>>53868567
>>53869030

>>53868988
It is as if metaphysical concepts are too broad to capture and can only be approximately described by loose words with myriad possible meanings and connotations to them and to try and write it down in more detail robs the events of their magnitude in pointless reductionism, required only to more neatly label them in a grand library to gather dust for eternity as inadequate retellings.

>>53828721
That's not Phantasy Star [Universe]

>>53868988
>When the Noun and the Other Noun used the Adjective to fight the Adverb...

That can be used to describe any lore. Hell it can be used to describe actual Mythology.

>>53835962
as an extremely left person i was under the impression that rationalwiki was filled with a bunch of Rational (tm) ayncraps

>>53835567
Transhumanism is getting surprisingly little love in this thread. The Voice is such a cool weapon. I haven't read past the beginning of Children of Dune, but I think that the Voice could definitely be expanded out into a bunch of interesting techniques.
The level of training involved and the general voodoo of the Space Nun-Concubine Cult lends itself to some cool backstories.
Each of these elements could become part of a variety of settings. CHA-based magic.

>>53867722
Also as the Books Of Sorrow grimoire cards show, it is unfathomably polite to it's minions, doesn't treat them like shit or anything. I mean sure, failure to live up to it's ridiculous standards of survival means the end of your existence, but it's completely civil to you otherwise. It's odd seeing a villain, especially a cosmic manifestation of evil being so nice to it's servants.

>>53831592
What is this soul transplant thing you keep talking about.

There is no such thing.

There is only your mind. Everything else is eminently replaceable, and the only major consequence is trauma and modification to said mind that you and others hold to be something of value because it is you.

The existence of souls is left ambiguous. But most people do not regard them with much importance or have made some massive allowances, considering there can be dozens or hundreds or thousands of you running around.

>>53872667

Honestly, it's one of the most sinister aspects of it. I mean, what the Darkness offers in the form of being Taken is made to sound like paradise. Your insecurities and fears are excised, you become pure of thought and purpose, and the universe of possibilities is before you under this service. Most of all, it gives you exactly what you want, or have always wanted, and it's described as a kind of beautiful and fantastic ecstasy of ascended existence.

>>53872667
Well, it has no reason not to. Being more appealing in the short term is really it's big selling point against the Light. Plus, it's not evil. It just has unspeakable philosophical motivations.

>>53872667

Of all of Destiny's Lore I love the set up of the Book of Sorrows, The Grimoire in particular you're referring to is Majestic. Majestic

http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxii-majestic-majestic#books-of-sorrow

>Oryx, my King, my friend. Kick back. Relax. Shrug off that armor, set down that blade. Roll your burdened shoulders and let down your guard. This is a place of life, a place of peace.

>Out in the world we ask a simple, true question. A question like, can I kill you, can I rip your world apart? Tell me the truth. For if I don’t ask, someone will ask it of me.

>And they call us evil. Evil! Evil means ‘socially maladaptive.’ We are adaptiveness itself.

>>53873980
Has the Traveller ever spoken directly? The Speaker doesn't seem to do anything, and the Ghosts appear to be individuals (effectivley its Kids).

And this thread just reinforces the dissapointment that of all things that could make use of the Universe its only been used in Activision games.

>>53874277
There are the Dreams of Alpha Lupi, but that's all.

>>53874416
Theres also verses in there which appear to be from the perspective of The Darkness which seeminglyexplain its motivation and aims.

>The universe is a beast.

>The body is made from tiny stuff, from near-nothings. From atoms swimming through a blood of crackling sparks. Simple, eternal Laws shape the beast. The largest galaxy is ruled by principles of mass and motion. Electrons are slaves to charge and to chance. And this is why the universe feels inexhaustible, eternal.

>No sun complains about its death. Life is the problem. Life can be woven from flesh or circuit or thoughtful light. Origins don't matter. But small, half-smart creatures have a fierce talent for denying the inevitable, for balking and complaining about injustices that don't exist and consequences that should be borne in silence.

>>53874558
I always kinda saw that as the Light's explanation of it's own philosophy. It's a counterpoint to the simple evolutionary perspective of the Darkness.

Though, I can see the difference in prose between it and the more obviously Traveller sections of the Dreams. So maybe, but it seems odd that a Darkness passage would be plopped in the middle of something that is otherwise entirely from the perspective of the Light.

Altogether though, the Grimoire has really made me savour the game a lot more. Comparing the Darkness' speaking to the Traveller/Light speaking makes knowing that the Darkness got blown the fuck out all that much more satisfying.

>>53874277

As it stands, no. As >>53874416 points out there is that but as far as we know it may pan out to nothing especially as Bungie seems to be retconning the story here and there. The closes thing that has come to speak for the traveller (or the light really) besides the Speaker has been the Leviathan who expresses the Virtue of the Sky to Auresh (pre worm Oryx) and her sisters as they take the needle ship down into the oceans of Fundament to go meet with Akka and the others.

Basically the Leviathan in spite of it's power does seem to want to try an do the pacifist route but finds that it can't quite convince the sisters against their desires for revenge. Then again after the Hive take to the sky the Levithan goes into battle mode but gets BTFO and slupperd up by the Hive afterwards

http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/viii-leviathan#books-of-sorrow

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>>53828679

duh

>>53874623
It could be a leftover from the point in development where The Traveller would end up the Villian re-purposed to fit The Darkness.

Though it comes after the dream of the moon, where the Darkness is arguably closest to the Traveller thanks to The Hive, perhaps influencing/invading its thoughts.

The Grimoire cards not being in the game proper was a crime. Better be fixed for 2.

>>53874715
While I love Spelljammer, its fantasy wizards using fantasy magic to reach space, which runs on 17-18th century astrophysics. OP's probably looking for a space opera solution.

>>53874730
I've always seen the "The Traveller is the Bad Guy" angle as actually being the Traveller itself is the bad guy. Built by the Vex (maybe) on orders of the Darkness.

The Light is still good, but the huge spherical prison is what really needs to be dealt with. This is reinforced by the latter additions to the Dreams of Alpha Lupi that describe the Light apparently being blinded and weighted down by the huge weight of it.

>>53874806
With the Cabal holding the City and destroying the Traveller in 2, I can actually see this element coming back into play. Means the overarching plot will move forward, as right now it just seems like the game is a diversion from this as the Cabal aren't linked to either the Light or the Darkness.

Don't know about the Vex link though, their style is all about multiple cubes while the Traveller is a singular sphere.

>>53874921
Well, originally the Black Garden was supposed to be the inside of the Traveller. That's definitely no longer true, so I guess the Vex link isn't there anymore.

I see the arc they might be going for now with the games though.

>D1: The Light finally makes a stand and slaps down the servants of the Darkness. It's about the Light reclaiming it's will to live and fight and the Darkness being given pause.
>D2: The Light has to face itself and free itself from it's prison. The Darkness waits because it doesn't really have servants left at hand.
>D3: The Freed Light and the Darkness have their final confrontation now that both are on equal terms again.

>>53874981
Given the games pseudo-mmo nature, I do wonder if they'll be able to put out a satisfying conclusion in 3. Hopefully they'll have learned the lessons of Destiny 1's vanilla story.

>>53837469
Destiny really did that right, for accessibility to the average FPS player and the equipment grind of an MMO. They're not shoving it in your face all the time, the important and immediately relevant bits are told to you on the bounce. The deeper stuff they put into a grimoire you can read while waiting for your buddies to sort out their armor paint and lootboxes.
When you just want to shoot something, it's very rare that there's someone reciting exposition at you and holding up the action.

>>53875366

They've done away with the Grimoire in D2 apparently but there will be more scannable stuff for ghost to talk at you about and apparently actual NPCs you can talk to. In the trailers they show a dude with a sniper rifle and a bomber jacket hanging out in a tower somewhere and plinking at random Fallen for instance.

>>53875416
One the one hand its good to know it won't just be the D1 characters (who, to me at least, are too steeped in memerey Bungie acknowledges) to talk with, but on the other the cards were a really cool system with some great writing.

>>53875416
I heard that they were making the Fallen playable, is that true?

>>53875613
We haven't really seen anything on character creation yet. So far the focus has been on how your D1 characters transfer over. Not confirmed or denied, just no info on it.

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>>53868582
New Horatio look better.

>>53875613

No as there is no reason for them to be. Story wise what has happened is that Mara Sov's Brother started hopping around the Solar system and let himself get captured by the House of Kings for the express purpose of taking them over which, by the way the cards mention it, seems like he succeeded in doing so.

That said a lot of the old houses seem to be gone but there might be a new house that is not on Uldren's side (or maybe they are? Who knows at this point).

A lot remains to be seen, I couldn't imagine the Reef being totally out of the picture with the fucking Cabal in our neighbhorhood.

>>53876054
Aside from Earth, all the areas are Jovian moons. Given the position of the Reef they're bound to factor in. Plus we'll probably learn more about the 9.

>>53876157

Well, considering the new Trials is being hosted by the 9 I would hope they become more of a thing. That and Europa at some point as well.

Then again there is plenty of room for expansions to fill in now that we have at least one major DLC that will concern itself with old Grumpy Rasputin himself and another one with Osiris.

>>53876312
I can see the Reef becoming the new hub, if they dont use the Space Wolfs base for it.

>>53875810
I miss tattoos

What's magic?

>>53873406
It's ultimate goal is to literally kill all forms of life it views as "weak" or "unfitting" to be part of the universe's final shape (almost everything). Hell if you actually read into Oryx and his sisters needing to constantly kill species wholesale in order to feed their worms, then that means from the moment of their conception up till Oryx's fall, they have likely slaughtered TRILLIONS of sentient species. Then add in that the worm Gods that corrupted them were the ones who actually destroyed their homeworld whilst lying about it to corrupt them, and shit becomes even more fucked. The darkness is evil, no matter how much it tries to spin it with it's whole 'philosophy'.

>>53872544
Read on, there was more focus on the BG in the later of Frank's books

>>53877964

I'm firmly of the belief that the Worm Gods engineered the God Wave for the purpose that one of the species that were on Fundament would be drawn to them eventually. I suppose in some kind of fucked up way it really was all Taox's fault but she could have been a pawn as much as anyone else. The Levithan could have stopped them but that would go against his principles to use force in doing so.

>>53873101
>What is this soul transplant thing you keep talking about.

In many groups in Eclipse Phase, the ego is considered the Soul. Eastern religions like those that profess the possibilities of reincarnation have survived the emergence of morph and ego technology and the Fall better than other religions.

Nine Lives have a pseudo-totemic cult among them surrounding the soul that fuels their ego trading business.

in my space setting there's a sort of 'magic' that isn't really understood or explained as it's a new phenomenon but basically it's a side effect of hyperspace jumping that 'mutates' the people inside ships seemingly at random, giving them abilities, mutating them physically, or just driving them insane.

OOC it's caused from the fact that hyperspace in this campaign accidentally tears into a dead second dimension where the collective conscious of a murderous and deadly race of alien shapeshifters live and sometimes when someone goes through hyperspace they partially merge with said alien fuckwad and gain abilities or partially take their shape.

>>53877964

Read one step further into Sword Logic and the nature of the worms. The worms have to eat, they have to feed. The nature of Sword Logic means that everything has to died to fulfill their final shape, to be proven truly correct and assume the final shape.

But that's not the final shape, because the worms need to keep eating, and what's left when you've killed everything but the Hive? Just the Hive. They would turn upon themselves and feast themselves into extinction, until all that remains is Oryx, who has nothing left to consume to feed the worm. So Oryx would starve after consuming the universe of all life, snuffing out the universe and rendering it cold and empty; devoid of life and Light.

This is the Final shape.