>>54130764
Je'She posed an interesting question that I feel should be answered here.

On Ullanor, the campaign in split into four prongs (these are up for debate as well):
>Marduk - air cav, void combat, essentially assault specializing in space
- Soaring Host (allows for Elsu to get to know Marduk more and eventually fall to Chaos, as well as their tactics complimenting the Leviathan Host)
- Ogre Legion (someone has to be infantry)
- Forge Lords
- Loxodontii (provides heavy armour as well as a possible opportunity for the legion to further indulge in chaos under the influence of Marduk and his legion

> Je'She - Defense and focus on civilian protection
- Steel Souls (psychic specialty)
- Dusk Phantoms (reactionary warfare coupled with static defense is good)
- Pale Hounds
- Symphonious Disciples

> Frederick - fast assault
- Ussaran Liberators (could allow for the relationship between Frederick and Piter to develop)
- Iron Guard
- Death's Heads

> Emperor
- Titan Marchers (or at least some forces since Raj finds Kane with the Emperor)
- Gunslingers (for story reasons)
- Golden Mountains perhaps?
- Silver Swords (for story reasons)

Not sure where the Knights Stellaris and the Smoke Stalkers would go.

Now, the question posed by Je'She was: "What happens to the Emperor's front after his incapacitation?"
The campaign still goes on for quite a while, so something will have to be decided on. The options I see are:
1. The Emperor's front is dissolved and the other three prongs pick up the slack
2. Another Primarch is assigned temporarily

Which one sounds better? If we pick the second option, the question obviously becomes: "Who?"

>>54130764
Second for Lambach's cheeky grin. That saucy lad

>>54131001
I'm not entirely sure the Emperor's front would be able to hold together without him. Especially if the Golden Mountains are there, seeing as their immediate reaction to the Emperor's injury is to go a little crazy and start slaughtering orks. If that was the case I feel like the front would fall apart not long after, with individual legions doing what they think needs to be done until one of the warmasters (possibly Je'She) steps in and distributes them to the other fronts

>>54130764
I put the timeline table I dod in the spreadsheet. Anyone can edit it. I think a few of us should get on voice and actually discuss exact dates for when the seps start getting aggro.

>>54132323
I agree that command would fall apart rather quickly. Raj pulls out immediately, taking a small chuck of his forces to make sure the Custodes bring the Emperor back safely. The Marchers are stoic and not very prone to panic, but they'd still be without their Primarch. The Gunslingers would probably lose some of their cohesion too, considering Kane has his own doubts about what the did. The Silver Blades don't send a particularly large detatchment, so they can't exactly hold the front either.

Another point actually: How do the Custodes react to the injury? They go mad with grief after the Emperor goes down heroically against Horus. How does him getting fucked by an Ork affect them?

>>54131001
Not sure what the knights do. But maybe they and the stalkers could just be kept in reserve and used to plug any gaps in the campaign? Do they need to have a large role in the fighting?

I'm playing with the idea of the greater daemon that becomes Hashut being imprisoned on an Exodite world
Maybe Mot and Solomon fight over it.
What do you guys think?

>>54133637
I like the jist of the idea, care to provide a bit more details?

>>54133667
I had this scene in my head where Mot is talking before his amassed legion, which had rarely been together in one place in such numbers, about the upcoming campaign (which is ostensibly a relief effort to help another legion) and then says "But we are not going to [planet]" and explains that Marduk has told him where an archaeotech device is and he plans to retrieve it before the admech can get their grubby mits on it.

So this whole thing is clandestine to start with, and so neither legion really wants the greater Imperium to know that they're there. I imagine that it's very shortly before the brotherwar starts, enough time for Hashut to give Mot the secrets of daemon engines and corrupt his legion.

>>54133705
This is supposed to take place about a year before the Assassination of Malcador? Or is this pre-Ullanor even? Post-Ullanor, pre-Assassination makes the most sense to me.

>>54133705
I'm assuming said Archaeotech is Hashut? The campaign should show Mot's greedy, wrathful, envious side. Y'know, everything Hashut embodies. It should be where Hashut kind of goes "yeah, this is the guy who can make me a god".

>>54133883
>I'm assuming said Archaeotech is Hashut?
Yes, sorry I should've made that more clear. Marduk knows that it's actually a daemon, but doesn't know the full details and assumes it's one of the big four that'll corrupt Mot. This might come back to bite him when his patron gods get pissed that someone made a potential rival for their power.

>>54134009
I thought Hashut was part of a Khornate pantheon of lesser warp deities?

>>54134081
It's never clearly defined, though at one point I think he was a bloodthirster that got kicked out of Khorne's realm for doing magic. He then found the chaos dwarves and taught them sorcery.

>>54134081
Maybe, but we're not going with that. He's a Greater Daemon of Chaos Undivided, but becomes a Lesser God in and of himself. Him being a Daemon of Khorne wouldn't change much, though.

>>54132323
It's less "going crazy" and more "stopping holding back on psyker power usage and bringing the Mountain Warlocks and other psyker specialists in", but if the front is going to collapse, the Mountains alone are not going to be able to hold it together for long.

PROMPT:
What alien raiders plagued your legion's homeworld before the rediscovery of the primarch, if any?

Mot Hadad's homeworld, which I am renaming to Zharr-Hadad, suffered from periodic attacks from Eldar corsairs. Before Mot's rise to power, most of the city-states were powerless to stop such raids, but Mot put a stop to them personally when he broke the back of the corsair prince in a decisive boarding action.

>>54131001
The Death's Heads are, at this point in the timeline, mostly involved in their fighting in the Ghoul Stars against the Cythor. They might have token forces on the Ullanor Crusade, but most of their weight is in the galactic North-East.
They could get dragged from this front to fill in the Ullanor Crusade after the fall of the Emperor, which would definitely make Einchurt unhappy at whoever ordered it, since that means leaving millions of Army soldiers and civilians to face a threat they weren't supposed to.

>>54134212
Taiga never really faced any threats from Xenos. There are some old legends containing creatures that match the description of Eldar, but other than that, Taiga's interactions with Xenos are practically non-existent. Though the planet itself might be a Necron Tomb World, not sure yet

I should probably expand upon my ideas for the Cythor, make them a bit more of a fleshed-out threat

>>54136063
What do you have on them so far?

>>54136126
Not much on biology. They're mostly raiders, they prefer cannibalizing things rather than designing them on their own. Their weapons primarily fire large metal spikes, although razor-disci are common thrown weapons/offhand weapons for them. Their ships are usually shaped like blades or spikes, and the armour plating actually comes down to an edge, allowing them to slice into enemy vessels. This means the larger ships (cruiser and battleship classes) have basically two sides (they're usually arrow-head or broadsword-blade shaped), both sporting a lot of guns. When they broadside, the ship actually rotates along an axis. One side fires, and as that side is reloading and rearming, the other side comes to and does the same. Escort-class ships are more spike-shaped, usually with about four or five main sides mounted with guns. These ships are extremely fast, and make rapid attack passes by spinning and firing of volleys of shot and dropping mines and bombs in close proximity to an enemy ship. The spinning motion, combined with the uneven distribution of thrust while doing the maneuver, causes them to move extremely erratically, making it nigh impossible to calculate correct firing solutions.

Basically, most things I have are in regards to their fleet.

>>54136439
>One side fires, and as that side is reloading and rearming, the other side comes to and does the same.
I think I remember a greentext story where a rogue trader party did the same thing. Cool stuff.

>>54136439
well that sounds like the most metal thing since titanium

>>54136567
now that you mention it, I think I've seen it too
>>54137723
I'll take that as a compliment, thanks man

Anyone else got input on the Cythor?

Answer to the prompt

Eldar Corsairs from Caerbannog raided Iuma and enslaved the entire population.

Kane lost....

>>54134128
>Greater Daemon of Chaos Undivided
What kinds of daemon fall under that umbrella? I can't remember ever reading about them before. Daemon princes of Chaos Undivided yeah, but not Greater Daemons

>>54141000
Nice trips.

Greater daemon is the closest thing that I think we can classify Hashut as, but he's probably closer to a minor godling in the warp at the time of his liberation by the Forge Lords. He's powerful enough to avoid influence by the big four, but weak enough to avoid their notice (I'm operating under the assumption that he is imprisoned by the Eldar, and not jealous agents of the other ruinous powers). When he attains true godhood with the help of Mot Hadad and his sons, he's nowhere near as powerful as any of the other chaos gods, and so requires mortals to act as his agents in realspace because summoning his own daemons is even harder than those of the other gods. Despite this, the big four are not pleased with his apotheosis and so other heretics aren't very willing to work with his servants.

>>54141199
I'm personally fine with everything you're doing with the Hashut angle, it's something different and interesting. Also it gives Mot a lot of motivation and a bit more character depth. Feel free to add when these events happen to the timeline table I put in the thread links tab. So everyone knows exactly when it's going to happen.

>>54141964
I'm not quite sure yer, but I know it's very close to the outbreak of the brotherwar.

I'm alive, but on vacation.

>>54141995
I'm not sure exactly how close yet, though. Suggestions would be welcome.

>>54143712
It'd be interesting if it was only shortly after Ullanor, give plenty of time for the corruption to take root

Something a little different, to show how Kincaid would end up

>Kinnévail Kincaid lounged in dark contemplation, absently strumming a lute lost in his reverie. His chamber within the vessel was nearly pitch black, lit only by the glittering of starlight and the flitting illumination of a candle. Kinnévail was ever fond of such anachronisms, anything to remind of him of better times, when the ale flowed like water, song hung like smoke in the air, and violence was just and good. A time when his band of vandals and misfits roamed Kaliborn from end to end, from the Snowy peaks of Yvar to the deserts of Jakhistan to the fel-marsh of the Shrouded Isles. A time where she drew breath... A single tear welled in a stormy eye, rolling off and staining a fine linen bandage. Good. Let his hubris and vanity mar the scripture, so he can never forget, never forget his failures and those of witches too weak to reign in their own hellish power. Damn them. Damn them all. His fingers danced across the strings, stunningly masterful by any metric, but Kincaid knew he would never be able to play the same, sing the same, dance the same. A normal eye or ear couldn't perceive a true difference in skill or quality, but it was something Kincaid felt, his malformed skin turning deft hands stiff, bandages snapping taught with every movement. His life was torment and agony, and his only outlet was tainted by the loss of those he loved. He supposed that was the difference, not in skill, but in the soul of his music. He could not play a happy tune without recent history souring his joy. He couldn't play a somber tune without surging with vengeful rage. But these where his inner most thoughts, his heart of hearts. His brothers and sons could not see such weakness, such doubt. His father would not bear such a sight.

>>54145334
>Kincaid set the instrument down, gingerly lifting his humble candle and carrying it to a wide canvas. The candle shared its warm light with the canvas, giving life to the rich oils upon it. A man with deep skin and exotic features gazed down upon him, an array of lashing light billowed out behind him in a radiant halo. The man had dark hair and tempestuous eyes set boldly in a visage that was very similar to the once Kinnévail once bore. The resemblance was clear between father son, though Kinnévail was once of fairer complexion, and yet the son paled in comparison to the father. All the Primarchs did, even the greatest amongst them. How could they not see his obvious divinity? Because of his denial of it? Their father was divinely humble, how could they not understand this? His beauty, his strength, his infinite love for mankind, his endless knowledge? Kincaid, knelt before his paltry representation of the man who bested him in all things, yet showed him the way towards glory. In Kaliborn prayer to one's ancestors was common, and Kincaid was never one to kowtow to some absent "almighty" power. But the Emperor IS a god, at least as close as one can be and still be worth revering. Kincaid didn't know what to say, prayer was alien to him, yet he felt it was necessary, vital. It seemed an eternity passed passed in the dark confines of his chambers, then a solemn vow conjured itself forth, "I will show them, Father. I will show them the path."

>>54145478
Well written man. I like it. Now we just need to figure out the who, when and how he got burned.

Checking in from Taiwan. What have I missed?

Who's Kincaid?

>>54146940
He's the new Yochin. Functions pretty much same, what with being a major driving force to found the ecclesiastical Imperium, but with different flavor.

>>54146956
Groovy. Looking forward to seeing how he turns out.

>>54145334
>>54145478
This is exactly what I hoped Kinnévail would be like. Good shit.

>>54141000
It can happen. They're rare, but they're not impossible. The only alternative would be to make him a Greater Daemon of Khorne that used magic, which wouldn't change much, but still seems wrong.

>>54134236
I doubt the Death's Heads need to be involved. There are actually already more than enough leigons present. He could show up for the after-party though.

>>54148048
It's me btw

>>54134212
Kadir was infested by Orkz of different tribes, mainly in the mountains, but also pirating in te seas, too. They were kinda shy, not attacking too much outside the mountains until a warboss reunited the tribes and started to raze and plunder villages outside them.

>>54134212
Manaan did not suffer from alien raiders. The reason Manaan was so well armed despite that is that the Raakshas, as the Manaanan people called the Titans, were used to keep the population in line.

Manaan was rather unique during the Age of Strife though. Unlike most other human worlds, Manaan had regained most of its technological prowess. They knew Manaan was not the cradle of humanity and that other worlds were out there. They just didn't know why their space ships didn't work.

File: Warhammer_Codex_Legions.png (810 KB, 826x667)

810 KB PNG

We're not quite done with the Heresy itself yet, but there's something in the immediate aftermath of it that came up: the Codex Astartes. Specifically, who writes it, what's it say exactly, and do the Seperatists have their own equivalent?

So first off, who writes it?
There's 7 Loyalist Primarchs, so who does it? Linares doesn't want to split and Raj is dead, so that leaves 5 potential candidates. The foremost suggestion seems to be Solomon, but I'd like to hear some thoughts.

Then the size of the chapters. I think we can all agree that the OU's 1000 man strong chapters isn't that great. I suggest we increase the (max) size of the chapters to 10,000, with the legions and chapters deciding how big they are themselves.

And lastly the Seperatists. Do the Seperatists split their legions, and if yes, why?
My personal preference would be for them to do so; it works better when balancing the power of the two factions and successors allow for different Astartes cultures and tactics, but I think it's something the SepAnons should weigh in on.

>>54149925
Einchurt does write a document on his theories for the future of the Astartes, which his Legion uses to split after he vanishes
Whether the other Legions give a shit, though, is different

>>54150342
We could maybe expand on that and have him write it in conjunction with the likes of Solomon and Je'She. Then it'd almost be a guarentee the rest starts using it.

>>54149925
maybe some Sep Legions do and others don't. Like, the legions whose primarchs are indisposed are more likely to spilt, and it's not always a legion wide agreement. perhaps some chapters are formed by marines basically just going "I'll make my own Chapter, with Blackjack and hookers" and actually following through on it. These "Renegade" chapters might still be loyal to the Seps cause and so they aren't gotten rid of because they are loyal and useful to the Separatist movement.

>>54130764
bump

>>54151168
Makes sense to me. So essentially the Seps would split apart more naturally, as opposed to being forced to at a singular moment like with the Codex? Does raise the question on just how long the Sep Primarchs stick around.

>>54149925
Linares' works on the art of war are oriented towards swordsmanship and melee fighting. Maybe drop assaults and general tactics to use in the battlefield. Logistics and Organization are things that he don't master as much as other of his fellow brothers, so he wouldn't write too much in that matter.

Maybe something about illegal modifications and how to conceal them to the Mechanicum

>>54149925
Could the basis of the codex be something written by a traitor ala the Lectitio Divinitatus, seeing as the guy who writes W3's equivalent is a loyalist? Like, maybe Mot wrote a book of tactical doctrines much of which was integrated into the Codex.

Regarding the *Codex*

I'm going with the "Treaty" explanation. The Book would still be created from necessity, but not in the same way as in the OU. In the OU, Chaos was THE enemy, while here we got 2 great enemies to fight, with fronts spanning whole sectors. The strategical flexibility is much more important there because you have 2 huge fronts, with enemies attacking from several points. The Chapters would be big enough to answer the calls and win, but small enough so they aren't a logistical miracle.

The Imperium can't afford to have small chapters so in case one defects the damage is minimal. Inter-Chap relations are difficult and as fluid as fuel-oil, even more if the Chapters are from different Legions. Having a big Chapter pretty much excludes the necessity of calling for reinforcements to other chapter, thus reducing friction and allowing a more fluid operation

>>54157430

>>54149925
>>54150342
>>54155194
Perhaps Solomon creates the draft, but is actually the culmination of various Loyalist Primarchs and other characters, such as an prominent Custodes (my horus-heresy knowledge of them is limited at best) or important humans. Perhaps Malcador made some rough drafts or something as a back-up plan in case his mediation didn't go down? Which it obviously didn't. Since in this AU he's pushing up space daisies

>>54157630
This could be the solution.

>>54134212
Stovokor's small forge empire came under regular attack from a number of odd xenos species, some of whom would later pop up at Rangda. Their general tendency was to keep watch over a larger area than they actually managed or could reach effectively so as to have advance warning, ie remote sensors.
From there it was a lot of fortresses, robots, and titans.

Had a look through most of your documents, some good stuff in here guys. My favorite Legions are the Sentinals, Iron Guard and the Chosen of Hecate (But I think you should have stayed with the original name you had for them).
Where is the info on your Emperor's Dragoons Legion though?

>>54159420
Glad you like it anon.
I might be wrong here, but I think that, if the Emperor's Dragoons still exist, they're called something else. We definitely need to update that chart.

>>54159420
>>54160286
If I remember correctly, their anon is currently busy with life things, but is active on the Discord and here occasionally. They should be able to be more active soon

>>54159420
Glad ya like them mate. By old name do you mean Warpclaws? That was kinda a throw back to when I had the stupid idea to make them Rat marines haha.

>>54157630
I like this idea. It creates some definite distance between the Loyalists and the Separatists, ideologically. After all, I'm not sure the seps would let anyone that wasn't a space marine have any say in something akin to the codex.

So I've been reading through the red book work done so far.
For CoH I was thinking maybe:
>CoH models gain fearless if within 12 (6 if to OP) of a dreadnaught.
>CoH venerable dreads can be taken as HQ unit which goves them 4+ invuln save from Iron halo at no additional cost.
>If a CoH dread is destroyed all CoH units in Line of sight must immediately take a pinning test.
How's that sound?

>>54149925
Following the assassination of Zelbezis, there is unrest among the Generals of the Iron Guard. His murderer's faction fails to federate the other conspiracies, leading to an internal unrest in the Legion. To distance themselves from both the dead tyrant and his usurper, they adopt different liveries, and call themselves variant names. They all still adhere to Zelbezis' Liber Bellicus, meaning a nominal strength of 10 000.

It's worth noting that not all of the legions might need to split into chapters merely because their numbers are too low. The Space Wolves and the Salamanders in the OU have very few foundings for the same reason.

>>54164536
They don't HAVE to necessarily. In my personal opinion however, I feel that in allowing for groups to split off from the parent legion, you allow for more diverse stories further down the line. Silver Blades can only fight Ogre Legionnaires so many times, ya know?

>>54165694
That's true, but I find It hard to imagine that all the legions come out of the heresy unscathed.

>>54166939
Oh, right, I must've misunderstood you. Yeah, I do agree with you, some legions must've gotten fucked. TM would make sense, but I've actually got ideas for successors.

>>54168201
How any losses do you imagine the Forge Lords take? How fractured is the Legion after Mot attains daemonhood?

>>54169461
That would depend on a number of things.
First off, the question is how many forces he has at his disposal in the first place. He has his own legion, couple of knights, probably a large chunk of the traitor guard, but who else? Are people alright with the idea to give Mot command over all traitor marines from the Sep and Loyalist legions?
Second, the question arises of just how long the First Eastern Black Crusade lasts. Do they run as soon as the Siege of Terra ends? Or does the Crusade continue? Do warbands from the other traitor legions join after the Siege of Terra proves a bust?
Third, what exactly does Mot do anyway? Taking on all the Seps alone is quite the herculian task. What kinds of strats does he employ? Does he actually care enough to play it safe?
And lastly, what does Hashut actually do for the Bronze Lords upon his apotheosis and how late into the Crusade does it actually happen?

>>54170731
>Taking on all the Seps alone is quite the herculian task
Mot's not exactly alone. He's got the Gorgomongers helping him out, though that alliance is probably extremely strained what with them being Xenos and all. Actually, Do you think Mot serving Hashut be a problem for the Gorgomongers? Seeing as they seem to exclusively serve the big four.

>>54170963
>Gorgomongers
We're actually doing those goofy fucks? I mean, Chaos xenos auxiliaries are cool, but how about we don't make them ugly ass Squidward nosed ogres?

The Blades would emerge from the dust cloud pretty scarred. Their Primarch is gone, and their battle style is prone to having lots of casualties, as the more shooty Legions can rekt them from afar while they try to get into melee. They have their boltguns, but boltguns aren't as effective against blobs as earthshaker's shells. Think of 40-50k men lost from one reason or another. Plus their Primarch is gone with nearly half a Battalion and the retinue. They would have to settle down first, then split.

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>>54170963
Rokuten here, still on vacation. The Gorgomongers despise unorthodoxy and lesser gods. Any "alliance" would be an agreement that the Gorgomongers will rampage in that general direction.

>>54171265
Would you rather they have handsome Squidward's nose?

>>54170731
I'm going to say that about a third of the forge worlds in the galaxy have sympathies for Mot, with maybe a quarter of those actively embezzling war materiel for him.

After Marduk realized that he fucked up and released a rival to his patrons, I imagine that he plans for Mot to eventually lose the Eastern Crusade, while still giving time for the rest of the traitors to break Terra. Naturally, this doesn't go according to plan, and Mot's crusade lasts for far longer than anyone (including Mot) expected. This culminates when Hashut reaches the point where he can achieve true godhood, grants Mot the position of Daemon Primarch, and the Forge Lords all retreat into the eye.

The Eastern Crusade is a guerrilla war. Mot has his Forge World allies declare independence from the separatist cause, making the separatist legions go to besiege them, while taking the Forge Lords to break sieges at significant worlds. During all this he takes pains to muddle the waters so to speak, and many of his war parties paint their armor a myriad of colors to sow confusion.

Continuing with the Warp Crusade story:

The Khornate horde advanced slowly towards the human lines, some daemons roaring, others waiting for the massacre to start. The glorious bloodshed.

Kane was summoned by the shouting of his brother. He was sent to either kill Linares, or make him angry enough to be abducted by Khorne himself. He would make a great Daemon Primarch. Killy, angry and big. Just. Perfect.

The horde aproached more and more. The Astartes soldiers aimed their boltguns and heavy weapons, hoping for the blood rain to cease, and the horde to vanish. But they were in their very own realm. The chances of that happening were... none.

Kane yelled the hatred battlecry: BLOOD FOR THE GOD OF BLOOD

And his horde replied, SKULLS FOR THE THRONE OF SKULLS

And they charged. The hordes rushed towards the Legionnaires, outnumbering them 2 to 1 at least. Reinforcements were called, and the Argentean maneuvered to firing position. The bitter screams of the insane Astartes filled the ground of the Silver Blades Legion, and everyone felt more and more insane. More and more angry. More and more killy.

The Assault Marines charged the horde while their Battle-Brothers supported them with a continuous hail of bolter and plasma fire. Some Tactic squads charged, too, and the Argentean fired a single shell towards the hellish army, destroying many of their warp-made bodies and creating a large crater in the battleground.

The blood rain continued to fall, tirelessly, healing the wounds of the Khornate Daemons and aggravating the Blades' wounds. A single daemonic host charged towards the waiting Primarch, followed by the very Deshain Kane. The 2nd Company stopped the host from reaching the Primarch, but let the traitor reach him. They couldn't even stop his warriors, they won't take down the Daemon Primarch

>>54172377
Dorado rushed towards a bloodletter that was about to kill Martí, who was trying to support as many Battle-Brothers as he could with his assault cannon. The bloodletter changed his target, and went for Dorado. The daemon launched a blow to Dorado's left pauldron, while punching his chest at the same time, and then attacking his legs as soon as he could. The Astartes stepped back, and, while dodging an attack from the bloodletter, attacked his bare chest with the sword. The blow destabilized the daemon and openned a window for Dorado to cut throught his left leg and then cutting his head off. Another bloodletter attacked him from outside his field of view, and injured him in the left arm. The entity was to finish Dorado off, but the sudden roar of an incoming beast distracted both fighters. The daemon jumped back, and Dorado could get up, just to get smashed by the huge body of the Daemon Primarch being thrown away by Linare's charge, so furious that even Khorne would be proud.

The traitor got up, and so did Dorado. The Astartes met with his squad again, and prepared to fight the host once more. The Daemon Primarch attacked Linares with his hellish guns, hitting him three times, one in the leg, the other ricocheting in the pauldron and the other in the chest. Linares nearly fell down because of the sheer strength of the impact, but was able to stay up. He would have better fall, because a sudden kick threw him to the ground, meters behind. Kane jumped over him, and started to punch him wherever he could. Linares dodged some of those punches, but received more than enough to make him doubt of his own survival. No time to waste, he thought. He punched the fallen primarch in the chest and in the head, confusing him and giving time to scape from his grasp. Linares recovered his Silver Slayer, and thrusted a blow to Kane. He deflected it, firing at it with his guns. The Slayer nearly fell from Linares' hand, and Kane punched him again.

>>54172718
Linares' injuries were getting worse as time went by, as the rain didn't stopped. The Silver Blades' Primarch was exhausted for reasons unknown to him, and the traitor prepared to deal the killing blow. And suddenly, autocannons. The Argentean dropped to nearly the planet's surface, and oppened fire with its defensive turrets towards the daemonic host. Many shells landed right into the Daemon Primarch, or near it. The Silver Blades started the tactical retreat, and Linares accepted defeat. The host ran towards the fleeing Companies, but a rain of Promethium shells stopped the tide. The remaining groups were picked up by gunships, and the Gloriana Battleship returned to orbit. Many bodies were left behind, their gene-seed lost, and the wargear scavenged.

"We have failed, Romero. I have failed. I failed Raj. I failed Father. I failed everyone."
"That isn't true and you know it. We have done much more than necessary. We all could have died. Let's get back to Kadir."

That said, the Argentean set course to an open rift in the Empirean. And everyone could breath calmed.

>>54173096
The engines roared when they got back to life. All the ship trembled, and the voyage back home started. Many Battle-Brothers were took directly to the Medicae, and others were summarily executed directly for they lost all their remaining sanity. Many had nightmares for years, and the damaged wargear was considered lost in many cases.

The ship sailed slowly between the Warp Tides, following them throught the calmest ways. Something was sailing them alongside the Argentean. Something that looked like a Slaaneshi whale.

"Weirdest. That's what it is"
"Are you OK, sir?"
"Yes, I am. Thanks for asking. ETA?"
"Like 2 days, sir."
"How many time have we been down there?"
"A couple of weeks"

The serfs in the bridge started to creep. Dataslates showed something moving behind the ship.

"SIR, SOMETHING BIG IS BEHIND US!"
"The fucking whale?!"
"No, I'm reading energy levels as high as the ones of a space station, sir. Definitively not the whale"
"Damn it. Options?"
"General Quarters, and run as fast as we can"
"DO IT, DAMN IT!"

The ship's alarms rang, and everybody went to their battle stations. The ship came to a halt, engines at maximum and everything nominal, but the ship remained stopped.

"WHAT THE..."
"Calm down, Linares!"
"DAMN IT, ROMERO. DAMN IT!"

A battleship stopped right besides the Argentean, the gravity grasp still holding the ship with iron grip.

The ship was identified as one of the Forge Lords' Glorianas, but no records existed of such technology being ever implemented in their ships.

"Options, sir?"
"Gotta get the hell out of here."
"Yessir, but how do we do that?"
"Let me think... Toaster, energy readings?"
"Still space station-tier high, sir"
"If we destroy their generators, we win."
"And how do we do it?"
"Deep striking with Termies, Romero. Deep Striking..."
"That will certainly sentence them to death"
"They, or the whole ship"
"Understood..:"

>>54173460
And the Terminators got ready. The Boarding crafts were ready, and everything was set. The parties left the ship with an only objective in mind: To reach the generators and wreck them.

And so they did. The fight was short, but fierce. The Silver Blades' Terminators were no match for the Forge Lords slaves that ran the ship, and even the fallen Astartes had a bad time fighting against them. The generators were disconnected, and the Argentean broke free. The Terminators, in a last desperate action, tried to blow the ship to pieces, but they couldn't reach their objective in time and were killed to a man.

The Argentean quickly resumed her voyage, and returned to realspace shortly after the incident.

There, a surprise awaited. Everything had changed. The Legions splitted up. Some brothers were dead...

It was nearly ten thousand years later.

"Back to the past, Romero?"

>>54173578
Gotta get back

>>54174375
Does that make Isekho Scaramouche?

>>54175648
You know it, babe.

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Behold, a Doomsinger

>>54176315
Looks good man, Can't change the hair color? I had that problem too, what color would you use instead?

>>54176547
Red, brown, or blonde

Natural northern European haircolors

Bump

random fag who has slight interest in this
who is the guilliman of this AU?

simple and sincere curiosity, please answer kindly

>>54179341
In what sense? The tactical flexibility, the empire-building, etc?

>>54179341
There isn't a clear 1 to 1 comparison I think, since things fall apart quicker and vastly more divided.

I've only been here for a short time to my answers aren't the best

>>54179387
>>54179560
>There isn't a clear 1 to 1 comparison I think, since things fall apart quicker and vastly more divided.

I was expecting this, I wasn't thinking about an exact comparison either. But was also thinking that someone would fill the role

I wouldn't narrow it down, though.
My question is about approximation, the guy that more closely fills in the role that guilly did.

just so I can get a compass on this should I come more to these threads. I feel it becomes easier if I draw parallels

>>54179341
I personally see it as the Emperor's Dragoon's Primarch Frederick Aristide. He leads the seperatist and forges a new empire. But the Anon has been on holiday for a bit.

>>54179633
Well I can only really speak for myself, being new. I'm in charge of these guys >>54176315 who are basically all loyalist noise marines, but the Primarch has spun wildly out of control as far as parallels go.

Imagine if Fulgrim landed on Fenris but was raised by scholar monks, but becomes horribly disfigured after some Perils of the Warp and devolves into a religious fanatic like Lorgar, but without the Emperor to stop him. Makes the Ecclisiarchy and ruins everything.

Query: How technologically flexible are the separatists? Is there a line they do not want to cross? What about Psychics and Warptech?

>>54181370
Technological advancement is one of the things that actually make the Seps different from the Imperium. The Separatists do not feat advancement like the Loyalists do. This means that they don't lose the 30k era tech and that they also make some advancements in other fields.

As for lines they don't want to cross, that would depend on where in the Separatist Union you actually are. The Dusk Phantoms and their associates go pretty far, whereas others might be slightly more careful.

bump

>>54172170
That would make sense. Also means that we can have Gyahdred messing around with forge affairs to counter this and if he's doing it on the DL, it looks like Gyahdred is up to more strange mechanicum ritual. One more reason for people not to trust him.

>>54182083
>>54181370
According to the doctrine of Stovokor, all beings have an omnissiah nature, which is clouded by fear and attachments. The sutras contain schematics for thoughts and machines, and the greatest of these is the STC, of which it is said that if one comprehends the complete text, then one will become enlightened. However, the complete text is not required and by meditating on the math and the sutras, one may comprehend and be enlightened. This can happen by degrees or in an instant, but this understanding is a recovery and resumption of our innate omnissiah-nature.
There are four great illusions, wrath, despair, certainty, and desire and the four great cosmic God-Engines which serve the Unbounded Engine each oppose one of these illusions.
So a forge will have four great doors, at each of the cardinal directions and at each will typically stand a great representation of one of these mythic titans. More on them later, but these depictions are also laced with sacred machine cant and usually have some sort of link to the forge defenses.
One major debate in this sect of the Mechanicum is whether all omnissiah natures are the same. Gyahdred seldom speaks on it, allowing the debate to continue. In M35, when the inevitable happened and people went pants-on-head over it, Gyahdred issued a sutra from his cogitator banks, the best known line of which stating that in omnissiah natures, the similarities of each are all different, but the differences are all the same.

If the Sky Serpents were Confucianism: The Legion, then the Dusk Phantoms are Tibetan and Mayahana Buddhism: The Legion.

>>54184233
There's four titans, though for most forges, lesser engines, such as knights or automata will suffice.
The Northern one is black.
Eastern Blue
Southern Crimson
Western White

Each one opposes a different illusion, but the precise mythos varies and may overlap with actual campaigns against various xenos. For example, on many worlds, the Northern Titan opposes the Orks (Wrath), and so is equipped with a rapid-fire anti-personnel weapon and a close combat one.

Anyways, what all this means is that machine canon is less important on these worlds. It's not a delimitation of what can be, but a guide-post to enlightenment about the underlying universe.
As a result, combining STC constructs is entirely permissible in for the Dusk Phantoms, at least in theory. Machine spirits can be fussy, but if one can merge the systems on paper and keep them powered, etc, then there is no reason that you can't try your best to coax the machine spirits into complying.
Thus the Dusk Phantoms armory contains most any imaginable combination of components. There are some limits, though, for example, items from forges that have incompatible machine codes. It's easier just to build an armature to fire the gun manually-- you just can't mix Tellurite and Accatran components, they won't talk to each other.

The Doomsingers have three Chambers that the chapters fall under, Chambers Valdor, Fyrax, and Balamüt.

Each one has a slightly different culture, Chamber Valdor exalts "true" Imperial Culture being "His Song" (The Emperor's), Chamber Fyrax emulates the cultures of Kaliborn Septima being "My Song" (Being Kincaid's history) and Balamüt being influenced by Pre-Primarch legion culture in the Goal of forging a Unique identity and the purest expression of the Doomsingers (Our Song).

The Doomsingers are honestly the best Legion to split apart Codex Astartes Style, the Chambers fostering a sense of friendly competition and allowing for a great deal of flexibility to make up for Kincaid's lack of Generaling skills.

Balamüt eventually becomes an orgy of renegades, plague marines, noise marines, bezerkers and Eternals (Thousand suns Rubric Marines but with fire instead of dust) and Malalite psychopaths. They are as much of a danger to themselves as they are to the other factions.

>>54184408
>four titans
>no clear parallels to the chaos gods
555-come-on-now

>>54184747
>wrath, despair, certainty, and desire
>not clear parallels to Khorne Nurgle Tzeentch and Slaanesh respectively.
?

>>54130764
bump

>>54184534
Thoughts?

The idea is that each Chamber will split off, Valdor being like Black Templars/Minotaurs and are slaves to the Imperium, Fyrax being like most Astartes Legions and telling everyone to fuck off and Balamüt being a bunch of heretic fucks

>>54187986
>Astartes Legions
Loyalist 40k chapters, I mean

>>54187986
I like it. The existence of the Chambers gives the Doomsingers some good characterisation pre-heresy and it makes sense that these Chambers would produce different kinds of marines that would act in different ways. One question though, are the Chambers removed from the Doomsingers and made into their own chapters or are marines removed from Chambers to form chapters?

>>54189712
Chambers are another organizational unit superior to the chapter (Doomsingers have Chapters like the Word Bearers)

Once the Brotherwar reaches its conclusion then the Legion dissolves and Chapters go on to be what one would recognize as such

bump

>>54185734
>Tzeentch
>Certainty

>>54193699
His followers seem pretty certain of a lot of things.

>>54193819
They don't seem certain on anything.

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Almost forgot to post this.

>>54193953
Who's the dude that does these?

>>54194229
Just look up autism hat render and copypaste it on MSpaint.

Slaine69 on DeviantArt

>>54194254
He's British.

>>54193953
It physically pains me that the hat fits so well haha.
I should work it into his backstory.

early morning bump; we should find something new to discuss.

How's the timeline coming along?

>>54196542
Still stuck at work but happy to do a group chat to try and iron out the wrinkles. We know what all yhe big events are now we just need to nail them to a time.

>>54197067
Yeah, we should probably do that. The exact kinks of the timeline can be rather difficult, we'd need to figure those out together. Discord seems like the best place for it.

I think we're doing a pretty good job at getting everyone involved into the Brotherwar's events. Is there any legion that's being left out atm?

>>54179724
Interesting.

Any ideas for a meeting of Gyahdred and Kincaid?
I'm thinking that starts off bad and only gets worse.

>>54197820
Oh shit I just had an idea
Maybe Kincaid is there when the Dusk Phantoms Librium explodes?

>>54197927
That's awesome. I'm currently thinking that that happens at the height of the 3rd Rangdan Xenocide when they're trying to do something drastic, so perhaps Kincaid has been assigned to the front and the campaign has been bad but tolerable and with this, Gyahdred has had enough. It doesn't matter that it is probably not Kincaid's doing, Kincaid is an asshole and Gyahdred is done.
Something like that?

Or if there's other ideas I'm in happy to hear them.

>>54197965
Well Kincaid and I were talking about one of Lambachs sons burning him earlier, which is fine if he still wants to go that way, but a whole Librium exploding seems far more likely to maim a Primarch.

>>54197927
>Dusk Phantoms Librium explodes
What-a-what now son?

>>54197965
>>54198224
I don't know what this dude would Hate Kincaid for precisely Because he definitely doesn't start off as an asshole, but having a whole Librarium fuckin light up is too perfect and a better jumping point for ABHOR THE WITCH than a single marine ever will be

>>54197965
What can you tell me about the legion?

>>54199048
There's some sort of catastrophe with the XVth's Librarius. It results in the deaths of most of the psykers.
I haven't pinned down the precise circumstances, but I've been thinking that it's something to do with the Rangdan Xenocides, where Gyahdred is using psykers in battle en masse. He's hoping that he can do some sort of telepathic assault akin to a giant psychic shriek.
It backfires, in part because the Ragndan Xenos are scary as fuck, but also because Gyahdred, for all his planning, doesn't quite have it right.
It's quite disastrous and it puts Gyahdred off psykers for some time.

>>54199201
Gyahdred comes down on a forge world with some esoteric beliefs. He's not the most outgoing type and his legion is typically tasked with Macro-extinction campaigns, like the Dreadwing, Space Wolves, or Death Guard. They spend most of their time off the edge of the map fighting the monsters. They're very logical about things, pragmatic. Failed initiates that go mad in the psycho-indoctrination process are made into murder servitors, for example.
They tend to be secretive and they end up having a gene-seed instability (potentially exacerbated by the Ranga) that triggers a sort of psychosis leading to a full transformation.
They become cold, psychopathic hunters and, if the extreme stress continues, will turn into some odd reptilian beast from the deeps called Elver. I'm thinking it's like the Curse of the Wulfen without any of its nice qualities. You'll never see Elver modles on the table as anything but beasts.
To treat this, the legion leans on Mechanicum cerebro-surgical techniques to remove emotions likely to induce the transformation and attendent loss of control. These "Nosferatii" form something akin to terror squads and often have MIU linkages to allow for interfacing with other members of the squad, thallax, and cybernetica.
The legion as a whole tends to slam like a tidal wave or lie in wait for ambush. They're thoughtful, methodical...

>>54199444
They're total Humanity Fuck Yeah types, seeing life as existing as a narrow strip between two uninhabitable and hostile expanses and in fighting monsters, there is nothing they will not do.
They tend esoteric, both because of inclination and because of mechanicum leanings.
Thematically, I'm working with sort of a dark German Romanticism/German Expressionism, so Caligiari, Nosferatu, a little Metropolis, though something like Seventh Seal is fair game too. The idea is the unconscious and its interactions with the imperial ideal. Marines are all somewhat psychotic to begin with and these guys have the Elver in the back of their minds This with ocean and glacier, sort of hostile expanses where nasty things hide.
Then they've got a lot of inspiration from Tibetan Buddhism, in part because Varyayana is so esoterically inclined, but also because I thought it made a neat pairing with the mechanicum. There's also some austronesian influence, they do somethign akin to maori hakka before battle.

The result, I think, is a legion that's got passion, but is very controlled about it and choses ways of expressing it that are going to tend to come off the wrong way to other legions.
So Rpaketsin is running around making frankenstein monsters because you don't want to waste viable organic components, Klaagri is trying to use psykers to improve unit cohesion via hypnosis, and Gyahdred himself, the Erlkonig, comes up with a plan to Istvaan one of his closest brothers because he calculates that he'll be the greatest threat to the Imperium in the oncoming civil war, but avoids killing him because he calculates that once the civil war is over, Einchurt will be worth having around. Besides, they're friends and it's nothing personal and if Einchurt can't see that he's being stubborn.

Made some edits to my Black Sky Harvest story, the Siege of Manaan. Nothing major, couple of additions and fixes to the spelling.

PROMPT:
This is now a fighting game. What does each primarch do gameplay-wise?

File: 20170707_222029.jpg (3.46 MB, 5312x2988)

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Pretty much finished now, Radcliff Kaden 1st captain of the Chosen of Hecate.

>>54200030
Slow, beefy, lots of keep-away. Great zoning character.

>>54200030
Lambach would be middle of the road in almost every regard, he'd be a very easy to play beginner character because he'd do decent damage and be able to take a bit of a beating, have decent range because he uses a pole arm and would most likely have a Ryuken kind of shock wave attack.

>>54199444
They sound sweet

Kincaid himself is a Propoganda machine, within the context of the Crusade. Well not as great of a Diplomancer as Fulgrim, Lorgar, or Rowbutt due to his arrogance and grandstanding, he is extremely charismatic and a fun guy to be around of you can bear that kind of bro. He'll often negotiate surrender with an advanced planet, help them fix their problems, then tell them to go annex other worlds on the Legions behalf. In combat he has the power of the Ruintongue, a powerful voice that with a thundering song can light a man ablaze or conjure lightning from the sky. He's a psyker but his usage of song as a sort of totemic focus stabilizes his power and fools him, and few others, that he's not a true psyker. He is also an insane duelist, and does best fighting a "worthy" foe, but wiping the floor of scrubs with the Songaxe isnt beneath him.

The Doomsingers themselves are mini Kincaids, who like to drink, sing, and make new friends and new stories. Generally undisciplined they are more of a roving band of jolly warriors than they are trained and ready soldiers. They love fighting with the Imperial Army and they see them as no lesser than Astartes, since they fight the same battlefields, the same enemies, without insane sonic weaponry and genetic modification. The Imperial Army likes that they don't treat them as cannon fodder, but Doomsinger battlefields tend to be extremely dangerous as the Doomsingers wash the battlefield in flame and deafening song. They wade into the enemy under exotic ordinance and smash into them with axe, spear, song and flamer.

>>54200030
Valorn has rather low health, but a lot of ranged attacks and traps. These act as his main source of damage. Melee attacks are fast but weak, more useful as an interrupt than anything else. Wins by staying out of his opponents range whilst keeping them in his.

>>54200030
Kincaid would be all about fighting on equal terms and high risk high reward combos and moves. He would have great damage and excellent health with average movement, but fucking up his combos or flinching will get him nuked.

Most of his moves would involve aggressive chaining moves and blasts that will blow your opponent away so you have some room to catch your breath and think for a split second before diving back in. Super quick or ranged fighters would be his biggest weakness.

>>54200030
Linares: Hit the fucker with the sword until he dies. Different attacks and combos, usually disarming/parrying/dodging the enemy attack. Maybe a lot of health, and a decent stamina. Only melee.

Bump

>>54200030
Pacha has extreme endurance, although his attacks are fast, their animations are about telephoned enough for a combo to be seen coming, particularly when it comes to his only ranged attack (a hammer to the ground that causes a shockwave).

Which Loyalist Primarch would be most against Kincaid's proselytizing? Enough to get in his face about It?

I want to have a bit of writefaggotry that explains some of his more reasonable rationale for introducing religion into the Imperium, foremost that it's a form of passive control that once it takes root in the minds of the crushing majority, the Imperium can have some form of self sufficiency and unity in case all the Primarchs get taken off the map and they can't run things

>>54209591
I don't know if he would be most against it, but Einchurt is 110% with Dad on many topics, and Religion is one of them

>>54209591
>>54209627
Pacha would also be heavily against it, although more due to emotional reasons than rational ones.

>>54200648
Bad ass.
Looking for reasons for conflict, I think his insistence that he's not a psyker would piss Gyahdred off. He's a hypocrite and an irrational one at that.

This said, they should pretty likable on the whole, particularly if >>54209591
If it's a means of control and a backup system, Gyahdred would have less of a problem. Philosophically speaking, Gyahdred thinks that gods and perfect beings prevent human growth. So it comes down to the nature of the cult. If it's the emperor wants you to be all you can be, then Gyahdred is probably going to be ok with it. If it's REPENT SINNERS AND GO TO VALHALLA, then Gyahdred is going to have major issues.

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Unrelated to thread but playing my first game of 8th edition.
Dusted off the Imperial Fists.

>>54211526
Yeah one of Kincaid's larger flaws is that he's a hypocrite, but always has reasoning and excuses as to why he's not whenever he gets called out for it.

As for the Imperial Cult, he has logical conclusions as to why it's a great idea, but on the same token he absolutely believes that the Emperor is a god and that he's just too humble and "of man" to accept his own divinity.

Also working on this, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CwmnE6oegP8dZ3NgiGeof5uT0DBzVoigniNiC3wrG38/edit#

>>54212011
How is it?

>>54212301
Darnath Lysander is a fucking beast.
Mortal wounds are scary though.

>>54209591
Je'She would be firmly against it, but not enough to come to blows with his brother.

Post-Siege of Terra, Je'She realises that this new religion helps in keeping the Old Imperium together. He hates it, but he realises it is for the greater good.

>>54209591
Raj would absolutely hate it; the Imperial Truth is very important to him. Raj wouldn't have made too much of a point of it during the Brotherwar, but afterwards he would've unleashed his titanic rage.

That's another reason why Raj's death is kind of important. He would most likely have been his staunchest opponent.

The Titan Marchers themselves kind of accept it, though they don't consider the Emperor a god. Since Raj died for the Imperium, they're going to stick with it no matter what.

>>54209591
Linares is mainly against it, because Father is not a god, and the Imperium doesn't need a religion. That's against the Imperial Truth, y'know. But won't come to blows either.

>>54213523
I think Linares is a lot like Raj in the sense that they would make it known that they're not really cool with what Kinnévail is doing, but they'd both try to avoid any sort of conflict until the Traitors are no longer a threat. Linares kind of runs off shortly after Terra, so he won't be too much of an obstacle for Kinnévail either.

>>54209591
Valorn would be staunchly against it. Not simply because it is against the imperial truth, but because he would see the worshipping of their father as an act of pure narcissism on Kincaid's part. After all, if their father is a god that makes the primarchs at least Demigods, and Valorn thinks that Kincaid wants to be treated as such. That status would also lessen the achievements of Valorn, his brothers and the Emperor, which would piss Valorn off to no end. Despite this, Valorn would not go to blows over it, as he'd think that there's too much the legions need to be doing, so him fighting Kincaid would cause delays that the Imperium might not afford. Doesn't mean he just let Kincaid foster his cult without opposition. Valorn makes his feelings on the subject very clear to Kincaid on multiple occasions, though not necessarily his reasons.

On the rules front, I was thinking the Hounds could have a special rule which, at the end of the player's turn, has any unit that hasn't fired, ran or charged and isn't engaged in combat gain Shrouded until the start of their next turn. Also, I reckon the hounds get some kind of bonus for wiping out units in the enemy deployment zone, not sure what kind though.

>>54213810
This bit is pre-Brotherwar, I'm assuming. During and post-Brotherwar I can't imagine him having any trouble beating the shit out of Kinnévail.

>>54215032
That sounds cool. As for the enemy deployment zone thing; how would the Pale Hounds get out of such a situation? Perhaps they can consilidate further?

And while we're on rules, right now the Titan Marchers have a bonus relating to their cybernetics and to their titan allies. Maybe their third bonus can be something related to their use of explosives?

>>54215084
Sadly it's two bonuses and one negative, there has to be some kind of downside to each Legion
>>54215032
I could make something like that work

>>54200030
Marduk is a weird rushdown character. He's interested in getting right up in the enemies face from a distance. He's got good dashes and engages that lead into short high damaging combos. He's got no projectiles, but has strong counters. He relies on that and maybe something like an armored dash across most of the screen to stay on top of enemies. Probably doesn't do well with grabs and throws, though he has a few decent ones himself.

>>54215175
Right. Well, if you're looking for a downside, the Titan Marches are slow. Very slow. They're like a bulldozer, slow as hell, but they just keep going.

>>54215359
I hope there aren't any actual fighting game players here. I'm into them enough that I know some of the jargon, but I can't be sure I used any of it appropriately.

>>54215175
hows about this
Let Slip the Hounds of War: When a unit with this special rule wipes out an enemy unit whilst in the enemy deployment zone they gain the Fleet special rule until the end of their next turn.

Shadowy Recollections: If a unit with this special rule does nothing during their Psychic, Shooting and Assault phases they gain the Shrouded special rule until the start of their next turn. If the unit has Shrouded already, they gain an additional plus one to their cover save (not exceeding 2+).

>>54215175
Where are the rules housed?

>>54212241
Cool. I like what I'm seeing thus far.
So he gets religion after getting burned? It might be neat if he's being a jackass about the whole psyker thing, things explode and he blames Gyahdred.
Even though Gyahdred may not have a problem with the cult that he's setting up, the two never get a chance to discuss it because there's already plenty of emnity and so (assuming we want to keep the idea) Gyahdred goes on his rampage through Kincaid's worlds.

>>54216179
It's "The Red Book Folder" in the Thread links tab of the spreadsheet.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-N0OD1DyodLLWtPUG9zc0VlelE

>>54216286
Wanxie.

>>54215175
For the Dusk Phantoms, it looks like the two big mechanicum type bonuses are already taken. (-1 to shooting strength and FNP 6+)
So I think we'll need to think outside the bun for this one.

Any ideas?

I've got some ideas for units that I'll put up after I get a snack.

>>54216860
Revenant Terminators
WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2? I4 A2 LD10 2+, 4++, FNP 5+
Special Rules:
Thing that lets you attack with all of your weapons
Relentless, Move Through Cover (in 8th, they have 5" movement or something slooow), Deep Strike

Equipment:
Can buy Rad Grenades for the Squad
By default they all have a pair of power fists or lightning claws and a shooting weapon, like dual storm bolters or dual volkites. (They've got 4 arms)
1 in 3 can take a special dakka weapon, like meltas, phased plasma fusils, etc
You can give up their cc capability for heavy weapons, missile launchers, autocannons, volkites, etc.
You can give up their guns for bigger and more powerful ccw stuff. 4 lightning claws, two big ass thunder hammers, suped up taser goads
1 in 3 can take a back mounted weapon of some sort:
Cyclone Missile Launcher
Taser array to shoot lightning at shit in 6" (including while in CC)


The Squad may take one of the following:
All auras benefit the unit, too.
Targeting Augur Array: TL? and reroll wounds in shooting for units in 6 or 12"
Combat Neurostims: Hatred(Everything) and reroll wounds in CC for units in 6 or 12
Augmetic Servo-Skulls: +1 to FNP for everyone in 6"
Atomantic Pavaise Relay: +1 to Invuln for everyone in 12"
Warp Stabilization Array: Adamantine Will and lets you deny like a psyker. (really good in 8th)
Icons of Stovokor: Legion units get +1 LD, everything else takes -2LD penalty in 6 or 12"

>>54217324
Oh, they can also take rotor cannons, haywire guns, prototype assault cannons, and prototype frag cannons.

Meanwhile:
Kill Team (Extermination Squad?)

Usual Stat Line, but with a boarding shield.
Shotguns with specialist ammo:
Flamer Round
Poison Round (Fleshbane)
Haywire Round
High AP Round
Rad Rounds (4+, but if it hits, then -1T)
1 in 5 gets a special gun, the model would probably have a heavy weapon with a big shield on it or something. Rotor cannon, assault cannon, frag cannon, you get the idea.

CCW:
Combat Blade (the usual, can be envenomed for x points)
Taser +S, meh AP inflicts extra hits for each roll of a 6.

Probably give them breacher charges for that one time you place ZM and have blast doors.

Give them an ability to target units for elimination, giving them PE against it.

>>54217324
>>54217445
Pretty sure we're doing the Legiones Astartes rules first, but I'll start thinking up some TM special units.

>>54217580
I'm planning on going LA, Special Units, Rites of War (since some are gunna focus on certain Special Units), Unique Characters

>>54215655
What if I gave them the ability to run and shoot in the same turn if they started outside their deployment zone? Gaining Fleet after wiping a unit isn't super useful, especially if it's only in the enemy deployment zone.
Giving them a bonus to their cover save for basically not doing anything sounds good
What for a negative?
>>54216860
>>54217324
>>54217445
Speaking of PE, I was thinking the XVth might get PE against certain types of units, maybe something declared at the start of the game? Say, they get PE (Infantry) against certain FOC choices, declared at game's start?

>>54217698
That sounds good. As for a negative, I'm not sure. maybe squads take a penalty to ballistic skill, initiative or weapon skill when they've lost more than 50% of their models/wounds?

>>54217698
Sounds pretty cool and evocative of the Deathwatch rules.
I think it'd feel right if the legion had some very strong synergies that rewarded good target priority. Maybe special characters let you change those targets different numbers of times, again, like the 7th ed Deathwatch.

>>54217580
Figured I'd just put up what I had, and that just happened to be some unique units.

>>54218030
Yeah, if you guys wanna think up other things feel free, just write them down since I'm not 100% sure when I'll get to that step.

I guess I'll post a couple things here regarding such things since everyone seems into it atm.
>Each Legion gets 2 Positive traits and 1 Negative trait to their Legiones Astartes rule, barring the standard Legiones Astartes special rule.
>Each Legion gets between 2 and 4 special units
>Each Legion gets their Primarch and up to 3 other Special Characters (at the moment)
>Each Legion gets two Rites of War.
>>For those of you who don't know, a Rite of War usually has 2 or 3 Effects, which may change the Battlefield Role of certain units or grant the army certain special rules. It also has between 2 and 4 Limitations, which can be as simple as "Cannot take Allies" "Cannot be used by X Faction" "Cannot take more than 1 of X Battlefield Role", but can also be negative special rules in and of themselves

If anyone has any questions or input, send it my way on Disco

>>54218158
Did you see my suggestion for a negative for the Marchers? >>54215383

I mean, I don't know how that'd translate in-game, but its an angle to approach it from…

bumpity

>>54219742
I did, it's in the doc now

>>54218158
Blades' SR:

>Diestros: You may reroll 1s in to-hit with power swords and CCWs or attack at initiative step 1 and get a +5 parry save used before the armor one. If an attack is saved this way, you get +1 in to hit against the parried opponent.
>(Blademasters is fine too. Pick one)
>Rain of Swords: Units with this rule may charge in the same turn they arrive via deep strike
>None could best them in battle: If a squad lose a melee fight, it must make a leadership roll. If it's passed, the unit acts normally. If not, it automatically receives 1D6 wounds allowing saves of any kind, except the parry one.

Thoughts?

>>54222948
Oh, that's a nice negative. Thanks man!
And I think Blademasters is good, but it could be cool to give them a special weapon that allows them to get a "parry" save

>>54218158
Blades' SU:

>Legionnaries:
They can be equipped with Silver Swords (3pt S- AP4)

>Escogidos
Pretty much a vanilla retinue with access to storm shields and Silver Swords

>Support Centurions
Two flavours: Assault and Devastator. Pretty much 40k centurions, but the assault one may take standard melee weapons and the dev one 30k twin-linked weaponry.

>>54222982
Maybe their standard Silver Sword? Anyway, Blademasters is Ok, but I wanted to have a melee counterpart for IF's Bolter Drill. If you prefer Blademasters, I don't care. Will take it.

Also, support weap for the Blades:

>Modified Rotor Cannon
These were standard ones until someone made bolter rounds in a smaller caliber. And put on them a faster motor. And treated their barrels against heat.

S4 AP5 Assault 6, Gets Hot! (Instead of a wound, the weap malfunctions and cannot be fired in any way until the end of next turn, nor his gunner may attack in any way.), "Accurate" (Only hits with +5), Pinning. Pt value? Option as support/heavy weapon

>>54218158
Blades' Rites:

>Legion-Scale Drop-Pod Assault
The detachment may fully deploy via Drop-Pod. No presence in the battlefield in the first turn required. The first wave must include all the deathstorm pods that the detachment has. Units that can't be delivered by drop-pod cannot be chosen for the detachment.

>Standard Legion Arrangement
The detachment may take anything from the generic Legio Astartes army list. This implies that previously they couldn't.

>Nothing at all

>>54213284
>>54213449
>>54213523
>>54213790
Good to know. Kicaid would probably be forced to develop a more Machiavellian side at the cost of some of his warm charisma to circumvent his brother's objections and essentially breed a galaxy wide cult under their noses. What are the chances of the Imperial Cult bleeding into Separatist space? As I understand it they hold loyalty to the Emperor alone, so I imagine the populace would not be completely against his worship.

>>54213810
This one is interesting, its probably the most scathing criticism of Kincaid, because it's probably the most close to the truth. In truth, I think Kincaid just wants to reclaim a piece of himself that he thinks he lost when he was burned even though he can't identify what it is. In revering his Father as a god, that does in some way elevate himself. In truth I think that he saw some things in those flames of the Librarius, things that would plant the seed of madness in an unprepared mind.

>>54216179
Kincaid definitely has few close friends amongst his brothers, it seems, and he's too hot blooded to try and broker peace once a feud has reached a fever pitch. The Librarius thing is a stroke of genius and its amazing that our seperate events have that synergy. But yeah, after he is burned he begins to align his own views with that of the Emperor, and his childlike adoration becomes a fervent loyalty. Once the Emperor is taken off the map, the seed of faith blossoms into a thorned rose of religion, but at that point the Brotherwar is at the brink of emergence, and everyone is too distract to put any extra measures against him.

>A Talk Amongst Traitors

Kur Baal strode from the VI Legion Storm Eagle, Arnag Sibrian walking alongside him. The two Astartes stepped out into the burnished sunlight, standing atop a high peak on the world of Colchis. The soft dusting of snow crunched underfoot, grass and gently-colored flowers swaying in the cool breeze. Before them stood a great marbled manor, gilt white rotunda shining in the mid-day light. A pair of obsidian black Whirlwinds, their plating scrubbed to a reflective sheen, scanned the skies for unwelcome guests. Legion serfs in bone white and jet fatigues rushed crates of supplies to waiting Thunderhawks, each bowing their heads in turn as they passed the Astartes walking so confidently through their wake.
‘A tad pompous for a Legionnaire of the sixth, don’t you think,” Inquired Arnag, his eyes tracing hungrily over the manor.
Kur gazed around the scenery, his mind taking every detail in, analyzing it, digesting it. ‘Highly tactical location, easily controlled air routes,’ He parsed in a gravely Zharr-Hadadi accent, ‘Only a suicidal pilot would attempt to attack here, no other sensible ways up.’
The child of Dagon sighed, the Forge Lord’s literality always grated on him. The two crossed the small lawn, treading across a path of rough-hewn rocks, each a rusty clay color. Fruit-bearing trees stood tall, providing a modicum of shade along the pathway, and bushes laden with powdery snow and brightly hued flowers creaked as the wind blew through them. The air smelled of perfumes, incense, and the snip of cold.

Short preview of something I'm working on, will post more when I've got it

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>>54227135
Damn, I was hoping Kincaid would be the one to burn Colchis and civilize Fenris. Bummer

Anyway here's a shitty pic of Kincaid's weapon. One Million kalpas in MS Paint

>>54228012
Oh and I feel like this has been a long time coming; here's a quick and dirty timeline

>Lands on Kaliban
>Raised by scholars
>Fucks off on pilgrimage/rumspringa/test of spirit
>Turns into wandering badass, questing across the planet accruing party members and various titles and kingdoms that he bequeaths upon others that actually know how to run a kingdom ("A man can know how and why the rain falls from the sky, but can that man make it rain?" -Kinnévail Kincaid) and generally raising the global living standard via finding caches of Archeotech during his quests and journeys
>Emperor hears about a world that has gone from squabbling mud wallowers to a technologically advanced world all due to on known as 'the Wandering-King' and various other titles. Realizes that his last Primarch was under his nose the whole time, a system away from Fenris
>Finds Kincaid doing Kincaid shit. He looks like a younger, aryan Emperor, so there's really no discussion about what's going on. Kincaid however won't bow knee until he's sure about the Emperor, as he wouldn't "follow a man without song in his heart, mead in his belly, and a keen blade in his hand" and he's helped just Princes depose their tyrant fathers in the past, so he of course challenges him to a battle of the bands, beer pong, and a duel. Kincaid shreds (heh) the Emperor but his voice moves Kincaid almost to tears. Kincaid almost drinks the Emperor under the table before passing out like the skinny chick at a Sorority party. And the Emperor hands Kinnévail his own ass on a silver platter in the duel, but Kincaid proves himself as an able fighter and skilled orator. Kincaid pledges himself and his meager band of trusted brothers and sisters.
>The Emperor charges Kincaid with filling in the gaps his mad dash to catch all the Primarchémon left in the Great Crusade before joining the rest on the front lines, strengthening supply lines, spaceways, and over all loyalty and union in the Imperium

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>>54228587
After that is when I need to Coordinate with others, but here is my ideal timeline.

>Kincaid grabs his legion, tells them to loosen up and let the good times roll. Clears out the local systems, mostly in Obscuris, Fenris and such. (Thinking about having the Doomsingers recruit from Fenris, and putting those new Marines in the traitor chamber so I can have Black Metal Werewolves)
>Goes to Colchis and observes to power of religion on the minds of the people, planting the seed of religion in the back of his mind, ready to flourish in the ashes in the wake of the Rangdan Xenocide like a sapling Redwood.
>The Covenant tells him to fuck off during negotiations and Kincaid displays his hideous temper for the first time, slaughtering the Covenant diplomats and waging war on them, using Colchisian partisan forces to harry and disrupt enemy forces, but his efforts to stamp out religion in his new found allies forced a schism during the Campaign, with a third belligerent of the factions that rejected both the Covenant and the Imperium, led by a man called Kor Phaeron. Phaeron finds himself on the pointy end of a guitar axe for his betrayal.
>Kincaid and the boys finally loop around to the Eastern Fringe having linked up with the main Crusade Body
>Gets busy killing Cerabvores and the rest is barbequed history

I'm still trying to work out the events that occur after Nikaea but before the Brotherwar, but this is all I have in mind.

Oh, and here's a slightly less embarrassing version of what I am dubbing Dirgecleaver, and above it the tentative legion insignia. I couldn't capture the Singers' metallic blue or gold/bronze, so Raj don't freak out I'm not stealing your paint scheme

>>54228587
>Kaliban
I don't think that's right…

Other than that; cool.

>>54229936
You're right, Kaliborn. It's five in the morning, I really should go to K

>>54222948
>>54223065
>>54223171
>>54222982
>>54223277
Thoughts anyone?

>>54230024
I'm as good with crunch as I am with women, so I'm at a loss. What are your thoughts to this? >>54228587>>54228012>>54229719

>>54230122
The timeline is fine. The Axe seems busy, tho.

File: angron_by_alexboca-d7930i6.jpg (2.77 MB, 1672x1150)

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>>54230264
>The Axe seems busy, tho.
What?

And the badge?

>>54230264
Its an archeotech guitaraxe; I'd be shocked if it wasn't busy and silly. I think it looks great, considering its done in Paint.

>>54229998
>Fenris
You mean Wolf 359?

>>54230368
I dontdon't clearly see what the badge is. But seems fine.

>>54230450
Heh, right? Although wolf wolf wolf wolf was really more a Space Yiffs invention, and if they read Leman's back story it would make sense.

You cool with axe, badge, timeline?

For clarification the main neck is a volkite rifle, the bottom is a combi-Flamer, and the Axe head is a force blade the whole assembly acting as an amp (heh) for his psykic might and song (which are one in the same).

>>54230511
It's supposed to be a canine/feline/ursine skull shouting thunderbolts. But it's MSpaint and I'm a scrub

>>54230560
Got it

>>54230560
They look metal as fuck. I'm really liking them.
The joke with Wolf 359 was part of a translation problem that lead to the Soaring Host's running joke Strong Bear, an honorific that was interpreted as a personal name by some remembrancers, so I also had them mistranslate Fenris as the planet Wolf.

But yeah, metal as fuck legion. I really like them.

>>54230560
>The Badge
It might work better if the skull was in the middle and the bolts were coming from the whole mouth area instead of just the front? You could also try getting the skull from the profile and having it roar lightning? I'm not sure.
I like the concept in any event, and I think the issue is just of size and placement.

>>54230560
I got to agree with Xun here, they look pretty awesome

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PROMPT: What is your legion's badge? Post it, or describe it.

Pic related, Titan Marchers.

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>>54233652
>A Space Marine badge with Letters

I'm unsure how to feel about this.

Still is still the working emblem of the Leviathan Host, or some derivative of it, but I'm less happy with it than I am with the name. I was thinking maybe something like the World Eaters but with a serpent coiled around the planet. It kinda evokes the whole Orphic Egg concept.

>>54234448
It's meant to both be the TM and the basic silhouette of a titan.

>>54235320
>A titan with penile armament

>>54233652
Some kind of coat of arms. A shield before a pair of crossed swords, with IV in the shield and the Legion's motto engraved on it. Don't have many ideas either

Bump.

PROMPT:
Write a regiment that serves in your legion's space in an era after the Great Heresy,

>>54237585
Aside from the Legion's Homeworld Regiments?

>>54233652
Thinking two wolf/dog heads looking off in opposite directions.

>>54130764
>come back after a week at the beach
>further delayed because trees fell shortly before i got home
>power and internet dead for a day and a half
>come to triumvirate thread
>start posting
>check beginning of thread
>thread was begun 6 and a half days ago
>almost right after i left
>mfw i have no face because sunburn

Guys, what happened? I was gone a whole week and we haven't even filled one thread all the way?

Was everyone else gone all week too?

>>54238163
Yup; pretty much everyone is either on vacation or temporarily gone for different reasons.We've pretty much failed to get enough people together to do anything major.

>>54238242
I think we're lacking focus right now. We need to set a goal to work on next.

>>54238242
>>54238276
In your estimations, what are the... let's say three biggest roadblocks yet to be bypassed?

I've written so much Steel Souls crap that basically anything else I do now is just detail masturbation while we wait to build the next segment of plot, so I might as well try to focus solely on larger issues and leave the Souls aside.

>>54238276
What could it be? The Timeline?

>>54238393
Legion Timelines would certainly be a good project for everyone to work on. Throw in references to events that don't exist yet and we have a bunch of material to work with.

>>54238393
The general timeline would need to be filled in first though, and there hasn't been a whole lot of work done on it yet. There's a bunch of events that aren't on there. Plus we need to figure out how certain canon events are affected by this AU.

>>54238572
For example?

>>54238276
The lack of focus, combined with the inflexibility of some participants is the reason why some people dropped out of the project.

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Who's got the complete timeline of events that Lambach did a while back? I need to add a bunch of LH stuff. I can't seem to find it in the doc.

>>54238802
You may find it in the Thread Links of the spreadsheet

>>54238163
I was trying to organise a voice chat to fill in the rest of the timeline document but I ended up working all weekend and having to do stuff when I got home. Will try to sort it out soon.

>>54238973
>>54238802
Found it, I think

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17-kTDZecaXjHdWpWdeCtu2npjveL-5ghEmRrTky0S2Y/edit

One of the things we need to sort out is the order of events following the censure of Lambach. Past that things get hazy.

We need to work out (or if I'm unaware of things already worked out, recap) exactly how things escalate to Malcador calling for the negotiations, and how many traitor legions are traitor at that stage

>>54240983
I have everything pretty much sorted for Lambach up to the siege of Terra but was unsure of the exact dates we are planning on everything involving the Seps, Which is why I cut it off after the Censure.

I made a post about Mot and the eastern crusade
>Marduk sends Mot to !exodite world to retrieve "Dark Age AI"
>Mot goes there, fights exodites for control of some temple in the jungle
>At some point, perhaps Solomon Tyrus shows up at the whim of his secret Eldar string-pullers
>After retrieving the "AI chip" (read: stone sealing Hashut) Mot nopes the fuck out of there and returns to Zharr-Hadad
>Hashut tells Mot he can give him power in return for freedom
>Mot says "no shit" and learns what he needs to do to free Hashut
>Turns out he just needs to do a bunch of stuff that alings with Hashut's sphere and he'll grow powerful enough to burst out himself
>First, Hashut gives Mot the knowledge he needs to summon the Ruinstorm and ensure that he won't be too bothered by the Imperium
>Mot calls up his Forge World homies, says that it's the time to rebel against the Eastern Imperium
>Using this as a distraction, Mot invades hundreds if not thousands of Separatist worlds and turns them into industrial wastelads to feed his war machine
>Most of the Forge Lords' actions involve painting their armor the color of another legion and breaking separatist sieges on Forge Lords-aligned worlds
>eventually Hashut grows powerful enough to burst his bonds and get free
>at this point he's already a lesser god
>the turmoil in the warp swell the maelstrom and makes the ruinstorm even worse
>Mot continues his war until an undecided deus ex machina gives him a reason to retreat into the Maelstrom.

I still haven't decided whether Mot becomes a Daemon Prince or just chills in the Maelstrom making daemon engines without reaching apotheosis.

>>54241208
Oh yeah, perhaps Mot freeing Hashut earns Marduk the admonishment of the big four chaos gods because they don't want a rival.

>>54240983
I think we should also figure out how late they happen. >>54240821 has Lambach be censured and fall to Chaos just five years after the three warmasters part ways. I think that's way too early. There's gotta be at least a decade for the three warmasters and their respective crusades to diverge. Hell, it would seem as it is that Marduk is stewing Chaotic corruption practically by Ullanor.

>>54241252
Actually, that seems like something Marduk would do on purpose. His whole philosophy by the time he falls to Chaos is about causing as much discord as possible.

>>54242181
Lambach leaves for the outer reaches of space before Ullanor though. And has been slowly getting worse since Nikea. But as I've said I am more than happy to move dates around more. We just need to nail them down.

>>54241208
Mot is not the one that starts the Ruinstorm; that's the work of the Loxodontii, the first traitors.

Mot and Hashut extend it to go on for much longer than in canon though.

>>54242181
I think we're forgetting the Loxodontii and Ashur. Marduk is not the catalyst for the Chaotic corruption, it's Ashur's legion.

>>54242970
I'll see if there's anything more I can do on it today. Maybe I'll post some stuff I want to spark discussion on.

>>54245088
Ashur's shamans are the ones that are Arch-Traitors, but Marduk is still the one who pulls all the traitors together. I imagine the groundwork of that would have to be at least a few years. Chaos being introduced to the legions to Siege of Terra can't be less than five years.

I don't know the official timeline, but it just seems like a lot of stuff has to be put in place. How long does it take Horus to fall to Chaos and then get to Istvaan?

>>54245134
A year.

>>54245134
Lambach's censure isn't when he joins Marduk that can be many years later if need be. Lambach hides with Elsu. Marduk comes and talks to them both at some point. Undecided as to when in timeline.

>>54245208
Well. That's a lot faster than I expected.

I suppose it works then.

>>54245302
The big question seems to be when and why exactly Marduk gets corrupted by the Loxodontii shamans. Do we want to go down the same route as the OU does? Ashur/whoever actually has control of the XIIIth legion at that point sends someone to whisper words into Marduk's ear? Do they set up a situation similar to Davin?

After that we can figure out when he brings other traitors to his side. I'm assuming that it takes place after Ullanor at the very least? Not that I type this; maybe Marduk gets corrupted during Ullanor?

>>54245501
I think that the best way to get that rolling is that Marduk gets corrupted during the last phases of Ullanor and immediately after: the Loxodontii's Primarch visits him, and with Empy Corpse-Mode, he tries to get him to his cause because shit is going tits-up. Then, he speaks with the other Primarchs and sets up his plan

>>54245864
>>54245501
I like that. Marduk ends up really destitute and sullen at Ullanor, but then Ashur/Ashur's shamans meet with him as Ullanor is closing out behind closed doors. They proselytize Chaos and Marduk basically jumps on board. He ends up getting going on his Eye of Terror campaign with a spring in his step that puts most of his brothers at ease, but really the whole thing is a set up to go meet with the Gods and corrupt/convert his brothers.

>>54245898
If Ashur doesn't have control over his Legion, the Shamans can go talk with Marduk. If he has, then Ashur should go talk with him. Will produce a far better impact

>>54245937
Once Ashur is collared, does he have a semblance of control? And a legion being corrupted by Chaos while the emperor is still out and about strikes me as odd. Do the Word Bearers get all Chaos-y before or after Ullanor in canon?

>>54245974
Ashur was collared? Then a shaman. About the WB, don't know

>>54245974
Monachia is before Ullanor. So they atleast start down the path.

>>54245864
>>54245898
Sweet. I'm liking this.

>>54245937
>>54245974
The collaring turns Ashur into a mindless beast, barely able to produce any sort of independent thought. He wouldn't even be able to hide it in any way.

>>54245974
Lorgar was corrupted for 36 years before Ullanor. Ashur is too forgiving and blind to the sedition within his own ranks, it could go on for a while.

>>54246179
I know the Marduk anon wanted to have some female character being very important to the Legion. Perhaps she plants some seeds before Marduk even talks to Ashurs Legion, something that makes him more easily turned. Even by the end of Ullanor seeds could have been placed. Then Marduk comes and talk to Elsu and Lambach. Tells them he already has Ashur and probably Mot and Kane on side already. They agree to join him. We definately need to figure out Isehkos reasons though.

>>54247145
I think Isekho falls when he goes back to Marduk after the massacre. He's guilt ridden and Marduk is tyet3 to help.

>>54247145
I dunno, I think that it should really fall on the Loxodontii's shoulders that Marduk turns. The sorceress that takes over is a neat idea, but I don't think she should be responsible for the turn itself.

>>54247189
By the time of the Censure of Pacha the corrupted has set into Marduk's mind, yes.

>>54247189
Ahh yeah that makes perfect sense, I must of missed it at some point.
>>54247323
Yeah definitely keep the Loxadontii as the main reason for his turn. I was just throwing out an idea for it. I know he eants the sorceress character to be pretty involved in the legion.

So in the case of the Gyahdred, his major idea is that because of the size of the Imperium the administrative system is grossly inefficient and typically the local governments are just the ruling elite from DAoT, meaning they're usually corrupt and incompetent kings and shit. As a result, Astartes, Mechanicum, and Primarchs would be better rulers of federated zones. He wants a federal system. The problem isn't people, per-say, it's unqualified people running things. It just happens that the Astartes and Mechanicum are more capable than most people.
If Malcador is turning over leadership to the council of Terra, odds are the people there are responsible and Gyahdred doesn't particularly have a problem with them.

His issue with Je'She is that he's being a shitty little autocrat censuring people without council. Also Je'She doesn't really want to listen to him.
And Je'She (probably), Pacha, and Kincaid have annoying tendency to leave warrior-kings who don't know the first thing about infrastructure in charge. Battlefield valor is less important than skill in administration.

I'm thinking Malcador's reforms would have gone a long way towards efficient government and those warrior-king dynasties would have been replaced. It'd have resulted in an eventual evening, I think, but I'm thinking that Malcador is actually pursuing a middle course and Je'She (and Pacha and Kincaid) have their own thing going on and are trying to shape things to match their desired arrangement. Malcador's not fooled, but there's only so much he can do at the moment and it's easier to leave things for a bit.
Unfortunately he doesn't bother to tell Gyahdred that it can wait and Gyahdred keeps obsessing about the mounting inefficiency. I mean seriously Gyahdred, we can afford to glass a few hundred planets and have a few dozen large rebellions. The Emperor was just put into critical condition. Chill out. Now isn't the time for better tax policy.
But nope. Gyahdred can't fucking wait...

>>54248829
Gyahdred's way of freaking out that the Emperor is in critical condition and can 'die' is to order his realm. He's a primarch and introspective, so he's probably self aware enough to get that part of this is what's happening, but he's also figuring that inefficiency cascades and a more orderly Imperium will help everyone else cope without needing to turn to religion or something. Maybe if the Primarchs had therapists or whatever, he'd be able to chill for a few decades, but he's got a logical enough reason and it looks like people on the other side of the political debates are moving to set things up.

I updated the timeline table a bit. feel free to add or change any details as you see fit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17-kTDZecaXjHdWpWdeCtu2npjveL-5ghEmRrTky0S2Y/edit

>>54249201
I'll add some of the things we've discussed today to it.

>>54246179
If that's the case, does the collaring of Ashur happen prior to the heresy/rise of the separatists but after Ullanor,or does it happen during the heresy proper?

>>54252187
Don't know, hard to say. I cannot happen pre-Ullanor, there's no way a legion could get away with something so blatant as mind dominating their own Primarch with the Emperor around.

My assumption is that it happens during the Rise of the Separatists. During that time there are a couple of legions that are already kind of 'hidden' by Marduk on his front. This would allow for the traitors to actually collar Marduk. The Chaos sedition would have already started long before Ullanor though.

>>54252285
Indeed. As I see it, it could happen just when the sep movement starts, that would give you enough time for the collarings to happen, while hidding it from the Imperium because the seps are seen as a more important thing

>>54252285
Wait, why is Marduk being collared?

>>54253030
Ashur is the one that is collared.

>>54252285
Yeah, I was thinking that was the most likely answer, but I wanted to check what other people thought. I really like the idea of the heretics using the Rise of the Separatists to cover the corruption of legions and the consolidation of their power. On a side note, "The Rise" might be a decent name to give the brotherwar as a whole, seeing as it leads to the founding of not one but two big threats to the Imperium (From a Loyalist standpoint, of course)

>>54254937
>the Rise
>something something endless stream of boner jokes
Maybe not.

That said, there's good reason to think the Loyalists would call it something like the Wars of Faith/Great Holy War/War of Imperial Vengeance, whereas the Separatists might call it the Imperial Betrayal/War of Expulsion/the Great Madness/the Imperial Lie (to contrast with the Imperial Truth the Loyalists reject but the Seps maintain).

aka: The American Civil War versus the War of Northern Aggression, as it is even now taught in some lingering Southern schools.

I feel it highly likely all sides will have their own name for it, reflecting their own biases. Chaos might call it the War for Liberation/the Illumination/the Divine Manifestation etc.

>>54254937
That's hardly a rise. More like a hard, hard fall, from both the loyalist and separatist perspective. To the former, half the Imperium fell. To the latter, half the Imperium fell.

The Shattering, maybe?

>>54255474
Monopoly night without Dad.

>>54255519
Daddy Issues

Ok, so we have exactly how and when the Separatists become a faction and Malcador gets removed from the picture.
Everyone happy that while in Warp Transit to a neutral Planet (Name is needed, but we could always use the Istvann system?) Elsu and a death squad of Astartes wearing unmarked battle plate board Malcador's ship. Kill him. Leave a few survivors who all say they saw different things thanks to Elsu's shapeshifting powers and then shit hits the fan.
This seems to be the general consensus and makes for an interesting story arch.
Next we need to work on exactly how that battle goes down, what Marduk does during this battle because he is there and when Marduk decides to start his Chaos campaign in full.

>>54257685
Also Xun did you intend for Gyahdred to be at the peace treaty? Or would we do Lambach attempting to talk him into siding with Chaos at that time?

>>54257685
Boarding actions *while* in Warp transit?

Is that actually possible?

>>54258081
It is when you're a daemon primarch.

>>54258131
Fair enough.

>>54257685
In that case, yeah I'm cool with it. I do have a feeling like Malcador might sense something's up beforehand since he's also psychic, but presumably he can't do much about it while at Warp.

>>54258169
Did you see my writeup of Mot's involvement in the eastern crusade?

>>54258916
No, where is it at?

>>54259023
>>54241208

>>54259038
AI = Greater Daemon I like, that seems good.

Attacking the Seps' industrial lands seems good also. Gives Emil and Tibet-O-Tron a reason to really get into the fight as well.

I still get the creeping willies any time "lesser god" is mentioned. Attaining that kind of power level might be possible, but since it's such a gray area in the canon, I'd personally go this route:

Hashut starts off as a powerful Daemon. Strong, but not implausibly so.

Mot finds his tablet, sets up a direct soul to soul connection, starts feeding Hashut with victories, technology, sowing misery and ruin, *and* willingly lending some of that esoteric "Primarch-ness" which every Daemon would desperately love to eat.

What ultimately elevates Hashut beyond "Greater Daemon" and into something more akin to godhood is the slow fusion of would-be-god and its greatest mortal prophet. A true creature of both worlds, more than Daemon Prince but less than the Big Four. Particularly since "possession" is canonically both more fundamentally intense and creates more power in return than merely accepting a God's Mark or some mutation blessings.

I would imagine that a "Posessed Primarch" would logically be that much stronger than a "Daemon Primarch", therefore.

Which could easily spawn something like the Ruinstorm, as the universe itself is wounded by such blasphemy walking the Materium, even for a short time.

But that's just how *I* would do it, so as to avoid the myriad problems associated with using the term "Lesser God who is not somehow eaten by the Big Four".

Overall your idea seems okay.

So I plan on having the Doomsingers nearly completely unwind, with an entire third of the Legion drinking the bongwater that is Chaos, two chapters of Valdor joining the separatists, and Kaliborn and the rest of Doomsinger space falling into brutal civil war.

Thoughts? I'm also updating the excel sheet with these considerations

>>54259274

Join the Seps you say?

I would be okay with this

BECAUSE WE NEED PLAYERS FOR MY ORGANS! AND BY ORGANS I MEAN MISSILE LAUNCHERS!

>>54259207
I misremembered something in that post, the Loxodontii actually start the ruinstorm, but Mot is able to keep it up in perpetuity with his war. I love the possessed primarch idea and I want to do more with it. Would he be called Mot-Hashut?

Possible origins for Hashut
>he was a bloodthirster that drew the ire of Khorne for learning magic
>he was a shard of Khaine that merged with raw warp-stuff and became a creature of chaos
>he's a warp entity that embodies sentients' need for progress, represented by endless industry and innovation with chaos greeblies tacked on, which means that it's miserable for everyone

>>54259446
I'm going to push forward my two ideas for Hashut

>An AI that's so advanced that it began to create a presence in the warp, and using 8th dimensional super science begins to "download" itself to the Warp, becoming a warp entity that is equal parts mini Lord of Change and Khornate forge master

and my favorite

>All these things are true

>>54259274
As long as enough of them stay Loyalist so that the balance of power remains unchanged.
If too many of them go to chaos then A: The Loyalist forces would be vastly weaker than other factions and B: They might have a hard time spreading their religion around if everybody knows that half of them are traitors now. Apart from that I am fine with some Legions crossing factions.

>>54259446
Hyphenated name works as a baseline. Could be a point of mild friction between the two who gets "top billing" as an amusing side note.

Could also go with "The Forgelord" as a unified name, or some such thing. Take both out of the equation.

I don't think Bloodthirsters can actually learn magic, Daemons are pretty limited in how far they can stray. He'd probably just unravel instead of gaining power.

Shard of Khaine is too powerful of an origin I think.

Warp entity embodying progress? I feel like I've heard that one before...

Personally? I'd leave it mysterious. Why?

Because if you've ever tried to explain computers to grandma, you know that there's this fear of technology that so many people have. It's the darkness lurking behind every AdMech's robot brain. The fear that something might emerge from that darkness that few understand.

Hashut? He's born from that "gap". He offers you the soothing certainty that if only you feed him, the "gremlins" will never plague you. All that shit you don't grok? Daddy Hashut will handle it sweetie, don't you fret. Just feed him some more soul-juice and electricity, it's all good.

>>54259446
>>he was a bloodthirster that drew the ire of Khorne for learning magic
All daemons pretty much know magic though. Their very presence is magical.
>>he was a shard of Khaine that merged with raw warp-stuff and became a creature of chaos
Not a fan.
>>he's a warp entity that embodies sentients' need for progress, represented by endless industry and innovation with chaos greeblies tacked on, which means that it's miserable for everyone
He's fed by the growing desire for rogue Mechanicum to innovate and improve, and his birth is caused prematurely by the Forge Lords so he's not as powerful.

>>54259548
>An AI that's so advanced that it began to create a presence in the warp, and using 8th dimensional super science begins to "download" itself to the Warp, becoming a warp entity that is equal parts mini Lord of Change and Khornate forge master
I like this idea too.

>>54259571
Only a few chapters go Sep, while nearly a third goes Chaos.

Nearly two thirds remain loyal, which I feel is enough. The power of the Doomsingers isn't solely in the marines, but in their ability to influence mortal kind

>>54259617
>>54259446

*Not* explaining Hashut's true nature therefore makes your narrative stronger, plays into the ambiguity 40k is famous for, AND saves you as the author from having to worry about logical contradictions.

Computers break all the time. Machines stop working every day despite your best efforts. Shit ain't logical. Neither should Hashut be.

>>54259639
>Shit ain't logical. Neither should Hashut be.
Alright, you wanna know? Fine, I admit it! I don't know how Hashut works!

>>54259639
Alright, I can see the merits of not explaining where Hashut comes from. Maybe each of the reasons we've come up with are ways that different people try to explain him.

On a similar note, do we know what created the Maelstrom in the OU?

>>54259797
I do not. And I think there may not be an official explanation, incidentally.

My head-canon has always been something to the effect of it being a hole blown in reality by some hyperweapon used during the War in Heaven.

>>54259797
Lorgar does it by burning the worlds of Ultrimar, Calth being the most important I think.

>>54259820
That's the ruinstorm, the maelstrom is a separate entity.

File: stock-vector-vector-illus(...).jpg (58 KB, 753x598)

58 KB JPG

How's about this as a Legion Badge?

File: stock-vector-vector-illus(...).jpg (47 KB, 753x598)

47 KB JPG

>>54260926
Cleaned it up

>>54261533
It's a bit rough, but I like the overall direction.

>>54261533
Looks good, like an actual creature, as opposed to a daemonic hip.

>>54259446
I like the bloodthirster backstory. Warp entity is fine too.

>>54259617
It should be mysterious in universe, but we should have an explanation out of universe. Otherwise you end up with a Lost Legions scenario.

>>54259446
>>54259548
>>54259207
I like where this is going.
I agree with the All of these are true angle or the >>54259617 and >>54259639
I think we try to explain too much sometimes. That's the biggest problem of the Black Library HH books, personally.

>>54259617
Could be there's faction that calls him The Forgefather or whatever, and then some who hyphenate with a massive dispute over who gets top billing.

>>54259274
Coolness.
So do we want to keep Gyahdred going and smashing some shrine worlds?

>>54257685
I think the Istvaan system would be cool. It would still keep links with the OU. Perhaps have the first loyalist - Separatist conflict there?

>>54259639
That sounds like the best idea so far. Gives our future readers some space for head-canons ;)

---------------------
Just talked to Raj in the discord, and we reckon we should next work out when the traitor legions declare themselves for Chaos

- side note: If I recall correctly, there was a brief idea of the Soaring Host declaring traitor right at the siege of Terra, might make it cooler and even that much more desperate

>>54259446
>>54259548

>These accounts are lies

>>54263581
Yep, which would cause some friction with Sepie Singers, but I figure Kincaid, charming though he is, would have a vast rogues gallery

>>54264366
1 issue with Soaring host declaring at the siege is that Elsu has already assassinated Malcador before the peace treaty between Seps and Loyalists. Elsu might have a hard time doing that and then saying he hasn't picked a side yet haha.

>>54265145
Yeah, I think the Soaring Host hiding amongst the Loyalists was kind of low key scrapped.

>>54265160
I mean they can still hide amongst the loyalists as no on suspects Elsu of killing Malcs right?
I just meant they must have declared already.

>>54265213
Maybe, it still sounds kinda shady to me. The Soaring Host =/= Alpha Legion, and not even the Alpha Legion had dudes on Terra.

>>54265221
Fair enough. Might just be good enough that Je'She still trust Marduk. Then all of a sudden he rolls in to the Sol system with the likes of Kane and Lambach in tow.

Also I will be working an extra 3 hours every night for the next few weeks so I might be a little less active until the end of the month but will still he here.

>>54265287
Nah, Marduk and the gang keeping their heads low and heading straight for Terra would be the smart thing to do, we can't be having that.

>>54265507
Why not?
We could have them trying to do exactly that and then getting their cover blown by a chance occurrence. Tijo makes it to Gyahdred, there could be other similar events that let various legions know something is up with Marduk and Pals. (TM)
Of course, by then, it's a bit too late and the fleets are already making their way towards Terra, and seps and terrans recieve disengage orders from their high commands. If nothing else, I'm sure footage of the Battle of Grethor would be convincing that something's gone horribly wrong.
And again, I think other legions would have similar experiences.

>>54265128
Cool.
So any ideas for that campaign?

>>54266763
Tijo getting to Gyahdred is pretty important. We'll have to work events like those into the timeline.

And I dunno man, the traitors getting discovered by accident is kind of lame. They need to make their presence known boldly, preferably shortly before unleashing the Ruinstorm.

>>54266825
Yeah that's why I was asking about if Gyahdred is at the treaty,it makes sense for him to be there.
But the way I was seeing it is.
Marduk, Elsu and Kropor conclude their meeting.
Marduk heads to the treaty to meadiate.
Elsu chases down Malcs ship.
Lambach meets Gyahdred to try sway him.

>>54259797
hmm... maybe the Eldar who originally Imprisoned Hashut believe a version of
>An AI that's so advanced that it began to create a presence in the warp
>>54259548
An idea is that they believe it to be a creation of Vaul's, a kind of Divine AI created by the God of the Forge for one reason or another, but shackled so that its growth could be limited to what was safe. Then Slaanesh eats the Gods and with Vaul's power gone the controls fail and the artificial entity escapes the carnage, but is corrupted by the warp, turning it into a thing which is technically a Daemon. The Eldar who imprison Hashut wanted to "Purify" him to turn him back into what is (essentially) a foetal Eldar God.

Course, this is just what those specific Eldar believed, that doesn't make it true and most Eldar probably don't believe it.

>>54268756
This is pretty good. At first I wasn't convinced of giving him such origins, but this works quite well.

I also find it hilarious that the Space Elves give birth the the Dwarf God.

So, Rokuten is joining the Seps, as we all know. Why? Because he doesn't like the Imperium. Why not?

He's an ambitious powerhungry warlord, yes, but not everybody knows that. Everybody knows he's opposed to the Imperial Truth. Rokuten's beliefs are very much defined by O-Kan's culture's influence and Japan. He believes in a natural order to society, with warriors on top. This runs in contrast with the Imperial Truth's egalitarian message, which Rokuten considers to be a fetishisation of humans.

Rokuten's goals can be summed up as such:

1. Conquer the Imperium
2. Establish social order in accordance with the O-Kan traditions

This can be accomplished from the inside, and there aren't any plans for the legions' power to be divided yet. However, Frederick convinces Rokuten that attacking from the outside would be more successful and quicker, as they would destroy major opposition through military force. Thus, Rokuten's agenda shifted from reshaping the Imperium from the inside to usurping the Separatist movement before the conquest of the Imperium is fully successful to ensure his dominance.

>>54270972
Fucking heretics I swear.


This is interesting though, since it implies an internal war within Sepie space, which would make their disgustingly large swathe of space an easier pill to swallow

>>54272058
Nah, Rokuten's vie for power pretty much ends when he dies. It's just the Ogre Legion spends the next ten thousand years fighting over details of their culture like,"Do we fight the seps because Rokuten did, or do we stay with them because we're separatists?" or "Since Rokuten wanted to subject all humanity to his will, do we do the same to the Mechanicum in our borders?" or "Since Rokuten was a lying conniving bastard the whole time, do we try to rejoin the Imperium by killing all the other factions in our legion?"

Post-war politics in the Crimson Sphere are marked by violent disputes over the Ogre Legion's doctrine stemming from Rokuten's betrayal (of both the Imperium and the Seps), his desire to spread O-Kan culture, and even Chaos corruption.

>>54270950
Thanks. I personally liked the fact that the child of the Forge God gets helped out by the lords of the forge

Rolled 16 (1d21)

PROMPT
Make a character for another legion.

>>54274178
First fail rollin'

>>54274178
>Dusk Phantoms

Alright let me get on this

Rolled 17 (1d21)

>>54274188
Second fail rollin'