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First.
Kaden and Squad Parthenios

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Thread prompt: What are some rivalries that your primarch and his legion have developed over the long years of the Great Crusade?


For the Sentinels, they have always had a long-standing rivalry with the Frederick and the Emperor's Dragoons. Je'She and Frederick do not get along at all. Frederick does not agree with Je'She's views and Je'She disagrees with Frederick's ideas of Astartes superiority.
Even their legions clash, with the more methodical and defensive heavy warfare of the Sentinels being at odds with the fast and relentless attacks of the Dragoons.
It has been known that whenever Sentinels and Dragoons campaign together for fierce competition to arise as to who can claim the most honour

>>55195838
They look sick. Have you thought about putting Hellenistic markings on the armour? Something similar to the heraldry on Lambach's armour

>>55195896
I would but I fear it is well beyond my skill. I have a fineline art pen that I am practicing with for use on the Dreads.

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>>55195871
While detractors of Einchurt and his sons are easy to come by, true rivals arr hard to find. The VIth Legion has its heaviest rivalries with the IVth, IXth, and XXIst Legions.
The Death's Heads have, quite openly, stated their contempt for what they perceive as the Silver Blades attempting to deny the truth of their duty. To them, this is a weakness, a sign of uncertainty and a lack of confidence, shorn up by their boistrous ways.
The VIth Legion looks down upon the Sentinels, viewing their selflessness as an inability to do what is necessary. All is fair in war, but the IXth Legion needlessly handicaps themselves in order to clear their consciences, a luxury they are ungrateful they may indulge.
The XXIst and VIth have a long history of distrust, dating back to their first campaigns together before either had been named. The Corsairs, like the Sentinels, needlessly handicap themselves to preserve structures that may easily be reconstructed and prevent civilian casualties. However, this is worsened by their insessant curiosity, a trait which has more than once ended in small-scale bloodshed between the Legions as the XXIst attempt to discover the terrible secrets of the Death's Heads esoteric arms.
On a more friendly note, the Death's Heads and Dusk Phantoms have a friendly rivalry, as the twos purviews of warfare overlap heavily.

>>55195871
The Dusk Phantoms and The Death's Heads have a very quiet and secretive rivalry over xenos horrors slain. Given that the campaigns in question are classified, this usually takes the form of oblique references to things.

The Dusk Phantoms don't get along well with (I'd think) Ballamut and Fyrax, but they're not competing.

I'm thinking the Soaring Host have a friendly rivalry with the other speedy legion, the gunzerkers.

>>55195871
Easily the Chosen of Hecate biggest legion rivalry is with the Loxodontii.
While at first both Primarchs seemed to get along and could have worked well together both had VERY differing opinions on the use of psychic powers.
What could have been one of the closest brotherhoods was irreparably shattered when while working alongside each other on their first campaign Ashur and the Phants wrecked an entire cities population because of their use of witchcraft.
Lambach was furious as he had hoped to integrate the city and study their ways.
The brothers never came to blows but also never again saw eye to eye. At least during the crusade.

>>55196672
The relationship between the VIth and the IXth could be interesting as time goes on, considering they're on the same side

Gyahdred briefly mentioned in the discord that we should work on the Gunslingers first in our attempts to bulk out the under-written Primarchs and their legions, as well as fine-tune the others.
Any thoughts on this? Any ideas from the author? Or should we leave it?

Another order of business is that it was mentioned that after the discovery of the Corsairs Primarch Rahman, the following Primarchs were discovered far quicker due to Rahman's rogue trader ties. Should we just say they find each primarch after within 10-20 years?

Timeline: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17-kTDZecaXjHdWpWdeCtu2npjveL-5ghEmRrTky0S2Y/edit

>>55197593
>Deshaine
I say we talk about him. What are people's interpretations of his character? (Not so much to overwrite what's been said, but to make it clear what we're all thinking and then have the anon clarify, and then workshop from there)

After that, there's Isekho, who immediately springs to mind as a priority.

>Rahman speeding things up
Makes sense to me.


So in this vein, and for people who didn't see it, let's talk about Elsu:
>Elsu in brief
Elsu is something of an adrenaline junkie. If it wasn't for the damn mutation, he'd be something like a Corvus Corax with fewer scruples or a Khan without the philosophical bent. Elsu values the arts, to be sure, but he really lives for that edge. If he does art, it's as a musician, and he plays with the same intensity that he has when he's jumping out of the back of a thunderhawk at 30,000 feet. Actually, let's make that canon. He plays something that we can decide upon later, and Kincaid writes stuff for him.
The thing that keeps Elsu from being the cool brother with a motorcycle and bitches is that he's a mutant. And he knows that the galaxy hates him for it. He's not exactly bitter about it, not at first. He figures that they're going to improve that as time goes on and he is having a great time adventuring with Kincaid. He figures that just by being heroic, he can change some opinions, but he also know's he's not the greatest speaker and has a rather sharp sense of humor that comes out when he's pissed. So he deflects and lets Kincaid do the talking for both of them.
This would work out great in the long run, except that Kincaid gets made extra crispy and weird.

Elsu is also potentially surprisingly close with Deshane, both of whom don't quite feel the brotherly love.

Elsu and his legion, by extension aren't safe in the Imperium and know it. They deal with it through humor and by being careful about whom they make friends with.

>>55198487
Really, Elsu prefers to be out on the edge, wind in his face, slaying a monster or something and so the legion tries to stay out of the center of politics. Elsu values his friends closely, particularly because he understands what they're risking by being his friends.
Elsu really wants to take the high road on the whole mutant issue, but he'll also do whatever it takes to save his people. And this takes him down a very dark road. He feels like he allowed himself to be tricked into falling to chaos and even as he becomes the monster people thought he was, he knows what he's doing, hating himself for it.
There's a lot of self-loathing in it. He's not sure if he was too weak to die with dignity or what. Regardless, not a very happy Daemon-Primarch, hence why by 40k, he's more an Angron-Style plot device than an actual character.

>>55197593
We discussed Deshain, figured out some stuff that links into Yvraine, the Kurnasrai, and later Ereth Khial, and Commoragh.
More or less, Yvraine is his 'Man In Black,' who he chases across the galaxy, and he gets increasingly monsterous in his chase.
Per names, by the by, thinking the followers of Ereth Khial could be Kindraari (from a word meaning final victory, the death of all hope, thus Eldar of Final Victory, or Eldar who are the Death of All Hope), or Lacoiari (Eldar of Might and Glory, but also Eldar Who Fear Death, thus it fits well.) Also maybe Kenuiari (Eldar of Endless War, Eldar of Lingering Death).
Per the Ishaite elves, the name of Kurnasrai was based on the idea of them being associated with an incarnation of Kurnous, Isha's consort, but not sure. Quulari could be Eldar of the Tree of Life or Eldar of Regrowth (but also Eldar of Decay, which could link into something later, like if Isha is secretly actually corrupted by Nurgle somewhat?)

>>55196672
I like this actually, it plays in well with how the Corsairs operate and links up stuff.

>>55197593
Yeah, seems logical. While there is a rivalry between the Leviathan Host and the Corsairs over who is the best at void combat, the Corsairs definitely have navigation on lock. The best navigators and long ties with them too I bet.

>>55195803
>Fiery Spaniard Edition
Hell yeah!

>Map
I start this Tuesday again. Tomorrow I have an exam

>>55198487
>Je'She's view:
Je'She despises Deshain. To Je'She, Deshain is ruthless for the sake of it. He enjoys bloodshed for the perverse thrill of it, and not much else. He is merely the Emperor's war dog to be let loose in battle and caged any other time. Reasons ranging from Deshain's and his legion's lack of empathy towards imperial civilians as well as not aiding allies if it puts the Gunslingers in immediate danger. A particular sore point being when a Khafir campaigning alongside Deshain was shot in the knee when he questioned Deshain's tactics.

>My view:
I'm going to be honest, I think Deshain is a bit one-dimensional. He is a lone vagabond that believes in himself and himself only. It's a bit Gary-Stu-ish if you read the description.
Then again, this is coming from the author that has written Je'She as a humanity-loving hero that apparently has no weaknesses. I am currently working on that.
What I do like about Deshain as a character is that he is a character that is easy to dislike. He's the villain that everyone loves to hate and the concept of him and his legion is a pretty cool addition imo. I just think a bit more could be done to add depth

>>55195871
The Silver Blades developped close ties with the Chosen of Hecate, as they fought together with great success in the early days of the Crusade. The Titan Marchers are also Brothers-in-arms of Blades.

The Gunslingers are no doubt the biggest rival of the Silver Blades. Linares' thoughts about Kane have been absorbed by his Legion, and now they fight bitterly and savagely. The Death's Heads are also one of the Blades' rivals, more because of the different approach to the same problem than anything else. While the Death's Heads would brutally exterminate everything in a given planet, the Silver Bladed would brutally exterminate the enemy, the problem itself, avoiding civilian casualties.

>>55197593
Deshain must chose a path, it seems like he is wandering aimlessly in the character development part.

>>55198518
>>55198487
>Elsu

I really like this. Developing the relationship between Elsu and Deshain and hashing out a few prominent campaigns between them would make a lot of sense. Both are outrider legions, and their individual falling to chaos would influence the other, and vice versa.
How do you think the friendship between Kincaid and Elsu would affect the larger scheme of things, if it did?

>>55199089
>Elsu and Kincaid
I think it would have, if it hadn't been for the Conflagration. When Kincaid becomes the Burned Prophet, Elsu loses his friend.

>>55197593
At the moment Kane seems a little bit scattered but the character is cool. He will be very easy to fine tune and is a very important character for us in the story. Essentially has the highest body count of Primarchs too. Basically accounting for the Emperor and Raj as well as taking on Linares and Lambach at the siege.
From what I understand Deshaine is not actually the bad guy everyone thinks he is at first and this misunderstanding puts him at odds with a lot of his brothers and culminates when the Gunslingers defend a world with no help from other nearby legions.
He feels personally alienated but is unable to gain a true connection with many of his siblings.
He HATES Xenos in all forms but is tolerant of HUMAN mutants and psykers so long as they have the strength to stand up and fight for them selves. He despises weakness, if he had not fallen to Khorne he would most definitely have ended up with the Separatists. He is also meant to be a latent psyker who mistakes his own talents as simply amazing skill with pistols hence his "Gunkata". Not sure if I have missed anything important about him, but this is my understanding of the character to the best of my knowledge.
>Lambach on Deshain Kane
While I find my Brother’s peculiar "talents" with pistols fascinating I also find it very hard to reach a common ground with him.
He is quick to anger and has a deplorable disinterest in integrating those he finds easier to kill.
Once I admired his commitment to keeping his men safe, but we are here to protect those weaker and sometimes sacrifice must be made on their behalf.
Kane does not seem to understand that.

What Lambach and Rahman said is the deal.
In the early concepts deshain stsrted as the evil everybody hates char. But we discussed thst this was to one dimensional. So he starts out as the enforcer of the emperor. But loses his way and he always hunts the maid in black to get revenge for his homeworld.

He despises xenos but as stated not human psykers as long as they are not showing weakness.
I think his own weakness when he was shot in the head by yvraine is something he never forgive himself for. And ao he searches always the midst of battle and thinks his bros should do the same. An open attack is better than those sneaky plans others have.

He puts himself on a pedestral seeing him above hjs brotherd, fullfilling the emperors wishes. Putting him above others he also isolates himself. Only a few are not viewed with utter disdain

When he is denied the command on ullanor ( you have to trust your brothers and earn their trust to command) he falls from thst pedestral. His world view is shattered. When he lets the ork strangle the emperor he realizes that he has become the villain and from then on he gets quickly angered and commit those atrocities. Becomes more savage. The deshain we all love ( or hate).

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>>55200027
>>55199987
So, the shot in the head thing. The Eldar don't use many weapons that would cause like that sort of hit, but perhaps Yvraine hits him with a Neuro Disruptor, which normally would kill someone but he's a primarch, so he manages to recover. There are rumors and accusations that his later descent may have been in part because of this damage to his neural system, but the reality is it's not, he actually recovered just fine, and the descent was all him, as were his violent tendencies.

>>55195871
>Prompt
The Titan Marchers, by their very nature, are supposed to get along with all of their brother legions to at least some extent. The only serious rivalry they have is with the Forge Lords. The Marchers and Lords both have strong ties to the Mechanicus and are both very shooty and prone to collateral damage. The rivalry largely comes from the bad blood between their Primarchs, as Mot and Raj cannot stand one another.

The Marchers have a friendly rivalry with the Death's Heads. based on their similar skills. They feel a sense of kindship with one another, but also do have an almost playful sense of one-upmanship.

While pre-Brotherwar the Marchers and Chosen of Hecate were some of the closest legions, post-Heresy the Titan Marchers detest Lambach and his sons for taking the corpse of their gene-father.

>>55198487
>Deshain
I did always imagine him as a very divisive character. He does try to do the right thing, but he steps on way too many toes on the way there. He's the kind of sheriff that would end up with a deserted town.

>>55199054
This I agree with whole heartedly.

Deshain needs both depth, in the sense that his actions need to be internally justified, but he also needs a consistent theme and personality. Deshain can be a bit of a dick and still have plenty of depth.

What should Warmaster Aristide look like?

I talked it over with FredAnon, and we both agree he should be tall and kinda lanky. Not like Linares or Pacha, but on the tall side nonetheless. Combine that with short, neatly combed black hair, a thick, but classy mustache and a pointy beard, and I think we're on the right path.

I have zero ideas about what his armor should look like, or if he should have any accessories.

Any thoughts?

This is just my two sense, and I'm a fag so feel free to discard

In my eyes, the Ideal Deshain Kane shares a lot with his namesake, Roland Deshain of the Eld. Roland is a good guy in the barest expression of the term, hes a bad guy working for the Good Cause. An Anti-hero. Cursed to redo his quest until he does it in a way that isn't shitty and grimdark.

He starts off as a young idealist, a romantic even, then he slowly descends into a brutal utilitarian, a decrepit, wizened killer of men. And then he goes back and starts it all over again, the cycle of Ka, the crushing wheel of Destiny, the flat circle that is time.

I feel Deshain should follow a similar path. He starts of as an idealistic adventurer, young Indiana Jones, punching Nazis and returning sacred relics, then he becomes older, more mature, more seasoned. He sees where the real fight is and assumes the role of John Wayne, charming lawman, and puts banditos in their place, dead or alive. But things keep getting worse and worse and worse, spiraling out of his ability to control them, to save folks. And all he's left with is two guns and a heart fulla vengeance. Two guns and the killing.

Once the Emperor shows up, he finds a man tempered by anger and sorrow.

But the Emperor is an opportunity for him to do it all over again, do some good not in a national, continental, or even planetary scale, but on a galactic, species wide scale.

So he picks back up his white hat, his shiney pistols, and glittering spurs, and fights the Good fight. But this time he's smarter, a not really a Doc Holiday type, nor fully The Man With No Name yet. Maybe he really is most like Roland here, Roland at his most just. The crusade is a fresh start for him, and he takes advantage of it.

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>>55202052
He should look like pic related

>>55197497
I sort of meant for Einchurt to be the odd one out of the Loyalist Legions, his best friends are Marduk and Gyahdred, and he has a burgeoning respect for Mot, Zelbezis, and Isehko. He's sort of like Jaghatai in that regard, few or even none of the brothers he was close to stay loyal.

>>55202077
But things just never go right, his past haunts him, his repressed anger evolves and testers, the Crusade in and of itself is unjust. His life falls apart slowly as the very war he saw a second chance in gnaws away at his virtue and gives voice to his anger.

Once he gets shot in the head it's all over. The beginning of the end. Sure he bounces right back up, he's a Primarch, and a hardy one at that. He's the Coyote, he's the rattlesnake and the armadilo. You can't keep him down for long. But the seal on his rage is broken, and he has an excuse for disassociating and wallowing in the bloodshed.

But he's not evil, not really, not yet. His Judge Holdren has yet to hold court.

Once Ullanor happens, I don't think he should be passive. It's not Deshain, it's not Khornate.

I would say he and the Emperor get separated. The Emperor is swarmed by a Primeork and veritable horde of Meganobs. Deshain doesn't just sit there, paralyzed, he goes in for the kill, to rip, to tear, to strafe run, to get a quad damage power up and rip huge guts. But he gets stopped, a killa kan skwuad, or a deff dread, or even a Stompa. The Emperor goes down not because Deshain wouldn't pull a Horus and save, but because he couldn't. Then Deshain is plagued by his own weakness, and the question as to whether he just wanted to fight and therefore LET the Emperor die not only still plague him, but have a lot more weight. Being held up by a Stompa also kinda makes the Apocalyptican this bitter sweet milestone, a tainted victory and a mirror for his past, to show how far gone he is.

After that, it's a pretty straight path to the arms of Khorne.

>>55202138
That is sort of the look I was going for, though I don't actually want to give him a hat. And significantly younger.

As for Einchurt, I did imagine him and Raj being good friends. The one thing that I know Einchurt hates it's the pretentiousness of his brothers, pretending they are somhow better than glorified weapons of mass destruction. Raj makes no pretenses, he knows what he is and does his solemn duty. I think Raj could really be the only one among the loyalist he initially has a real relationship with.

I do imagine he'd be perfectly capable of just taking Raj's death in stride. Regrettable, but so is the nature of war.

>>55202052
I reckon he should have a few accessories. Maybe, since the Dragoons are based on Napoleonic stuff, he should a little Bicorn hat and perhaps a few pieces of sun iconography to reference Louis XIV (since he called himself "The Sun King" and Napoleon was a fan of his)

>>55202421
The sun iconography I can get behind, maybe on his chest instead of the aquilia. The hat, I don't know. It seems cool, but he couldn't exactly wear it with a helmet…

This coming from the guy that put a massive turban on his Primarch…

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>>55202052
You know how he should look

>>55202508
...do you think Bicorn shoulder pads would be too silly? Because if not...

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>>55202052
>>55202654

>>55202508
Fuck helmets then. Maybe he doesn't wear it, but still have it. Think in one of those protraits of important generals. When they weren't wearing their hats, they were close to them. Either they carried them under their arms, or they left the hat resting in a desk nearby.

Give him a baguette and you are closer to reality than anyone of us

>>55202077
>>55202183
This looks good. Deshain, check this

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>>55202052

>>55202715
>>55202664
>>55202654
It would truly be a shame if Aristide wasn't wheighed down by the burden of ALL THESE MEDALS

>>55202748
>When medals stop boolets
Truly, if you want to give that Napoleonic General sensation, you cannot have less than 25 medals. Not counting the ones that you received more than once

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>>55202654
You mean like this.

>>55202863
Being a manlet included?

>>55202886
Aristide shouldn't be short, he should be quite tall, sort of lanky even.

>>55202886
Einchurt is resident manlet

>>55202896
>>55202886

Napoleon wasn't particularly short for his era, that's British propaganda spread to discredit him. It was effective though, since many people hated Napoleon and of course the Brits did control a large chunk of the world and therefore could dominate the narrative.

And everyone wants their Primarch to be gigantic. Might be cool to have a few go the opposite route.

>>55203006
He isn't huge. He's tall, but lean. That's a body type rarely seen in a Primarch.

Plus, Napoleon short might've been propaganda, but still the obvious route.

>>55203038
Do you have any other primarchs in your AU with that body type?

>>55203074
Being short? Or being lanky?

Mot and Einchurt are actually really short, Raj isn't particularly tall either. Linares and Pacha are both really tall, but they're also really buff and massive, ESPECIALLY Pacha.

>>55203117
>The three shortest Primarch wear Terminator plate
Compensation much?

>>55203117
Either one, but mostly I was referring to lankiness.

>>55203133
Totally. Raj even puts in a big hat for good measure.

>>55203138
Nobody else is that lanky, no. In fact, I can't think of another Primarch from any of the AUs I've worked on that was.

>>55203074
>>55203138
Kincaid is one of the Tallest Primarchs, but he is more athletic and shredded rather than broad and built, think welterweight over Superheavy.

He is a bard-barian after all

Fred should be flat out lean. He's probably the fastest Primarch after Rahman

Deshain's response to:
>>55202077
>>55202183

"Good post. I think along those lines. He was this nice guy but he failed because his people were abducted by the eldar and he was shot in the head. He wandered the planet and became embittered. When the emp came it is really a fresh start. He tries to redeem himself. Protects his legion. Enforces the law if the emperor. He begins to see himself as better thna the otherd cuz he always is in the midst of battle while other think before they act. But as mentikned before thst isoltes him and all crashes down. When he is put into place by the emperor. He becomes the villain. Now i red the second post^^
Hmm. I want him actively choose to not do anything. To be selfish at that moment. I think having jim ignoring the pleas for help is imho stronger. The rest i think will fit. But he got shot in the head. And the craahing down comes from the emperor. I had in mind that maybe one of his former gang is a slave and deshain frees him but is to late. This could be one crack in his personality."

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>>55195871
>Thread prompt: What are some rivalries that your primarch and his legion have developed over the long years of the Great Crusade?
Oh boy, where do I start? Mot is not well like in general, but I suppose that Mot and Raj's rivalry is the most well known, but it's already been detailed here. Mot initially thinks that Einchurt and his philosophy are pretty ballin', but once he realizes that Einchurt and his legion don't have designs for rulership over anything he kind of disillusioned and thinks that Einchurt is a hypocrite for saying that he's prepared to do anything for the Imperium while being unwilling to take charge at any point.

I want to detail Mot's first campaign at some point, as so far all I've said is that it was a failure and he underestimated his Xenos opponents. Orks maybe? I also need to talk about a campaign he took part in in the calixis sector where he, as the Last Terran, got the materials for the Vorpal Chains.

>>55204343
Also Mot becomes disillusioned with the imperium as a whole when he visits Terra for an extended period and sees the bureaucracy that comes about when Emps is distracted by the webway or injured on Ullanor. The exact same kind of bickering and politicking that occurred on Zharr-Hadad before he took power and what he sees as an inefficiency and a weakness.

>>55204343
Orks could work, you could use a WeirdWaaagh! and the Forge Lords aren't prepared to deal with that much concentrated Waaagh! energy

>>55204343
Q'orl? They are an interesting xenos race. Ants in spess, with space travel tech and weapons and such.

>>55203783
Actually, how about something where Kane can choose between an insane, suicidal charge to save the Emperor and saving himself from the Stompa or whatever bearing down on him.
He flinched so to speak and that's the problem.
The Deshane he wants to be wouldn't have hesitated.

>>55203783
>I want him actively choose to not do anything. To be selfish at that moment. I think having jim ignoring the pleas for help is imho stronger

I whole heartedly disagree.

Imagine writing that scene. The Emperor being literally dogpiled by shit tons of Orks. And Deshain Kane just standing there. Like an idiot.

Not only would it be awkward, but it's boring narratively. Besides, I very much so doubt that the Orks would just leave him be, unless Kane either joins in or makes some verbal confirmation with the Orks that he's cool with what's going on.

Which is even more awkward

>>55195871
On the friendlier side, competitive rivalries have often sprung with fellow brother marines of the Silver Blades, given how often they work together. Given that at worst it came down to biting banter, the two Primarchs in fact encouraged these, as Space Marines who came to see each other as fellow rivals would form powerful duos when fighting side by side (or back to back)

On the other hand, the perfectionism and uppity-ness of the Pale Hounds and Valorn's treatment of Pacha, as well as their constant rejection of offers from the Golden Mountains to help, caused the latter's legion to treat the former's with waryness and the desire to prove their ways wrong.

Later on, as Kincaid spread the Ecclesiarchy throughout the Imperium, the Golden Mountains began to dislike the Doomsingers, seeing their actions as against the intent of the Emperor. By the 41st Millenium, things have worsened, as inconclusive evidence of the Golden Mountains secretly supporting the Avalanche Company has begun to pile up, particularly when the company reappeared at near full numbers when the Doomsingers were sure they had been reduced to under a dozen.

>>55206387
He wouldn't just sit there and watch. He would be fighting in his own front, but leaving Empy alone deliberately. He wants Empy to go down, but he would like to survive

>>55206492
Well I guess that basically what I wrote with a different intent.

Basically the difference between Kane and me is just when he gets shot and when he goes evil

>>55206546
>>55206492
See>>55206371

>>55206882
Yes, that could be a (the) variant.

Do we want any non-daemon primarchs to survive and not go missing all the way to M41?

>>55209365
Emil could survive, as he suggested him going down when the Nids show up.

Piter is a perpetual, so he doesn't have much choice.

Solomon becomes the Carmine Knight.

Also, we haven't really got an endgame for Frederick yet.

>>55209517
Gyahdred turns into a graphics card

>>55209365
Kincaid fucks off, tries to save Ashur, gets shot in the heart, set on fire, and tossed off a dam.

He's dead. Probably. Maybe.

He's off nurturing savages and teaching them the way of the The-Emperor

Alright, we should discuss Mot's eastern crusade. I've detailed how Mot goes about it but I don't think anyone has talked about the separatists' response to it or the ultimate outcome.

>>55210684
I'm at DnD, but I support this fully. Will post in future.

>>55209517
IDK, people didn't seem to like either the Daemon-Emil or the "Commits Sudoku to spit in the Hive Mind's Eye"-Emil stories, so I'm honestly kind of at a loss for anything to do with his story post fleeing back through the Ruinstorm after sneaking over to Terra.

>>55211282
Can you go over sudoku Emil? I think I missed when you mentioned that.

>>55211569
Kincaid REALLY hated the idea, but here's the story I wrote:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DBYKDJBBK44DydxyDIDD4Alou3IEhfC0YJCiHSYZKtU/edit?usp=sharing

Basically Emil turns his entire Legion into a 10^5 psyker-pyramid with him at the top, fatally overloads everyone (including himself) and attempts to shoot the Hive Mind in the face with the amplified power channeled through himself and the Pharos device. It doesn't work, but then Papa E helps out at the last second and (sort of) gives Emil some closure as he dies.

At least, that was my theory.

>>55203117
>>55203038
Emil's also super tall and fairly slender, his psybernetic limbs aren't very bulky but they're long and lanky to help in their role as psychic amplifiers/antennae.

If it's at all relevant to whatever, that is.

>>55211645
I for one, really enjoyed reading this. A great culmination of the narrative you've set out. I'd be happy with this as canon. I'm not as much of a fan of Chaos-Emil. It's also given me some ideas about Je'She's end as well.

also

Just so we know, there's no mention of the actual start of the ruinstorm in the timeline, The Hour of The Musth merely states it begins the groundwork for the ritual
We don't have any mention of the apotheosis of Hashut either, as far as I know
If you give me some dates I can do it if you like

>>55211789
The last bit was for referring to everyone, not just Emil lol

>>55209365
Kincaid fucks off, tries to save Ashur, gets shot in the heart, set on fire, and tossed off a dam.

He's dead. Probably. Maybe.

He's off nurturing savages and teaching them the way of the God-Emperor

>>55211645
I don't hate the idea, I hate the idea of the Souls being so super speshul and awsuum that they harm the inexorable pyschic horror known as the Hive Mind. THAT'S what I hate. Read the last thread and CTRL F Sothanids or Sothanites

>>55211801
>>55211645
Perhaps if it was a culmination of other sep Libarius' as well. Not just the Steel Souls?

>>55211801
>>55211789

Well, I'm going to need some more opinions then, since I've got one positive and one negative.

If there's a concern that it makes the Souls too special, then their author can't be the one to make any decisions regarding the idea's approval since I'm obviously biased.

I will say this though, I don't think it's unreasonable to posit that:

A: Killing 100,000 psychic Astartes and their Primarch (carnage on the scale of the Heresy)
B: Funneling that energy through a xenos beacon (which let's not forget, *on its own* was enough to attract the Nids from interstellar space),
C: Letting the Emperor stepping in to guide the Legion's energy (Emil on his own would still have failed in the end)
D: Stabbing the Hive Mind while its attention lay fixed on Sotha

might have some unusual effects. Special effects, maybe even snowflakey effects certainly, but I really think my logic holds up. Sacrifice buys power, that's the rule I always try to adhere to when writing, and this is the biggest sacrifice the Steel Souls can *possibly* make.

>>55211923
(And like I said, the Hive Mind's not dead, just wounded. Some of the Nids still hear its call, it's just no longer able to observe and control the entire species, and some Hive Fleets and Splinter Fleets begin to develop their own intelligence and diverge. And many Nids just go feral, which was the whole point of the sacrifice, to buy Humanity as a whole some more time.)

>>55211801
>>55048815
Also, previous thread has no mention of whatever Sothanids are.

>>55211923
I enjoyed reading this a lot.
It does seem to make the Steel Souls seem very powerful.
But on the other hand it wipes them out so a fitting end for a 1st founding Legion.
My question is, should we completely wipe 1 of the first Legions out? If we are fine doing that then it needs to be huge and this fits. Would they reform from successors?
Another thing to remember though is that the Emperor is a dick. He sees the Primarchs as tools to be used and nothing more. Not as sons to be loved. Which is fine if he just wants to sacrifice Emil to meet his own ends.

>>55212205
Personally, I don't think the Steel Souls would break into Successors. It doesn't fit their "familial" theme, nor does it fit the "Mind-web" element of their genetics. Breaking apart to the extent that Successors generally do leaves them far weaker than it would another Legion, they're much stronger in larger formations.

The Legion is Emil, and Emil is his Legion. Seemed more interesting that they'd both go down together. Of course, they're not immune to Chaos. Some would certainly have fallen and left the Legion over the millennia. Some would also certainly have broken away and gone renegade. Some might even have returned to the Imperium. So STRICTLY speaking, the Steel Souls aren't "gone", but for all intents and purposes they're no longer part of the narrative at the conclusion of this story, if that makes more sense.

Were they Loyalists, then they'd certainly still do so, but with a living Primarch and being Separatists, it seems far less likely that they'd abandon their Legion structure and practices.

The Emperor is a dick. He spurned Emil during the Heresy. He came back (sort of), and he helped Emil strike against the Hive Mind, validating Emil's sacrifice. Emil finds comfort in this at the end.

Alternately: The Emperor's ghost noticed a burst of psychic energy, stole it for himself, and did with it as he pleased, siphoning some of it to sustain himself.

Emil sees what he wanted to see in it, reconciliation. But that's not necessarily true at all, Emil's viewpoint isn't omniscient. Maybe the Emperor's apologizing in his own way, or maybe he's utterly self-serving. We can't know and I intentionally didn't say for sure. Maybe he just ate his kid's soul, lol.

>>55211987
Shit forgot this is a new thread. Thread before that, the one with Zelby

>>55212315
>>55211987
I lied.

Start here >>54946800

>>55212315
I'll be honest, I reeeeeeeally don't want to dig that far back.

If the Emil Vs. Nids isn't acceptable to the group, then I just need to know that. The entire story, the entire "Sacrifice the Legion to perform X" is based around that event. I'm not digging my heels in and saying that the Steel Soul's story must go that way, but it *is* pretty much the foundation of that piece, without which the whole thing makes very little sense.

I've tried to rework and salvage stories before when ideas change, and it always ends in gibberish that everyone hates, including myself. I'd rather just put it to a Yes/No group vote so I can either start brewing a new idea, or move forward confidently with what I have.

I really don't care what we do with the Nids, they're of little personal concern to me. If you want to create "Sothanids", sure, go ahead. I just thought the psychic Hive Mind would be a good final boss/executioner for this AU's most psychic Primarch and his sons.

>>55212472
Read nigga >>55212435

The Hive Mind would add rape Emil. End of story. Get off your ass and read the posts I just linked to, because I won't dare regurgitate old rhetoric on issues that or more less agreed upon. Unless you want to hop into discord and we can hash things out more organically.

We've basically agreed to use the threads as broad strokes conversation, and use the servers to shitpost and meme, but also nitpick details and go over old issues.

I have a solution that was well detailed and largely liked here >>55212435 I suggest you read it before we bicker about how many half dragon kitsune are involved on Sotha

>>55212695
>Nids = Viruses

Nah. Carnifexes are way too cool in all their toothy glory for me to feel good about that. Also video game references are lame as fuck, and you should feel bad for copying them lol.

>The Steel Souls' death just alters the Nids' genes slightly.

Nah, that's boring as fuck. I'd rather go a different route entirely if that's what you're saying the end of the story actually is.

>The Hive Mind would add rape Emil

I mean, they *do* all wind up dead.
Including Emil.
And most of what the Legion built for 10,000 years.
And the Emperor actually managed to hurt the Nids, not Emil.

IDK how much more raped they can get.

>>55211645
>>55212766
I'll be honest? I really like it, though the Steel Souls don't have to disappear afterwards, necessarily. Leave a few remnants, and that could integrate into that idea of the Corsairs using their stolen and secretly stockpiled geneseed to help reconstruct the chapter (and possibly indebt them, which is also part of it as much as anything altruistic.)

It also explains more that one Fillibuster chapter I thought of that actually involved funneling psykers from the Imperium to the Seps, specifically the Steel Souls.

And I think thousands of Space Marine augmented psykers, plus a Primarch, PLUS the help of the Emperor channeled through weird xenostech totally could justify this. My vote is actually yes.

But I really do want Emil to get on Discord cus I would love to hash out that and a bunch of other stuff there too. :P

>>55213068
>>55212766
Agreed. If a legion is going to go (mostly) out, it should be in a blaze of glory.

>>55213068
>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
>Discord
Lol.

Aaaaaaaaaaaight, tell ya what. I just got done with about 40 hours of stripping my grandmother's house of all her knicknacks so that we can sell it, but tomorrow I should be free all day.

Remind me how Discord actually works and how to get to our part of it, because the last time I tried to log in I accidentally jumped into an old D&D group I'd been in like a year ago and it was embarrassing because I never use Discord and I'm 150 years old.

And then I'll try to log in tomorrow, since I'm gonna crash for the night fairly soon.

>>55213154
First you're gonna want to download the app if you haven't already. The button to join a new discord is on the left under all the current channels you're in, which doesn't sound like a lot in your case. Choose to join a server and then you can paste the discord link we have in the doc, which I believe is under thread links.

>>55213068
>stealing/stockpiling geneseed for the Corsairs' purposes

If that's something you're working on, then sure I don't mind.

But they won't be Steel Souls, nor will there even be anyone to collect a debt from in the first place. They'll just be unusually psychic Marines of whatever organization you've created them as part of, and won't really know their heritage unless the Corsairs specifically try and teach them somehow.

>>55213253
Fair chance they would if only to try and preserve them. With the open question of why.

Possible Answers: Rahman is sentimental, Rahman wants to control another legion, Rahman is experimenting on something, Rahman is trying to preserve the Union by avoiding conflict over the SS territory. Rahman is covertly controlling two chunks of Union territory. Rahman has some master plan that requires all the legions to exist.

Which is true? Who knows! Rahman disappears before he explains. But the Corsairs are too loyal to stop trying to rebuild this shadow of a legion.

Since an event this big affects an entire legion, as well as a major faction in the 40K universe, I think we should take it up to a vote on whether we should give it the go ahead or not.

https://strawpoll.com/bwhg17p6

>>55212766
Mary sues are lame ad fuck, and you should feel bad for perpetuating them lol

I mean really. The EMPEROR HIMSELF, from his Psychic Iron Lung of Pain on Terra, reaches out from across the galaxy and pokes the Hive Mind in the Eye. Get out of town.

We don't have any benchmark in lore for how such an interaction would actually work out, and I don't want to answer that question by having the Emperor wrap his slowly decaying lips around the Steel Souls dong, considering logically he would have censured them.

>Hey this piece of dangerous Xenotech needs to be destroyed
>Lol nah

That's a paddlin'. And if the Emperor has the ability to just reach out and smite, where the fuck was he during the Beast?

And the Hive Mind getting hurt is a hard no from me. The kind of hard no that will have me walk, because there's no point in wasting time with people that are okay with that level of HFY wank.

As for your other "insightful" points, you clearly didn't read the required materials, or lack the reading comprehension skills required to fully understand the repercussions.

Look, I'm all for the event, I really am. But I'm not for the massive amounts of wank required to see it through when we've on our own kinda reached a less snowflakey consensus on how it goes down when you went on a sabbatical because, like, this was, like, stressing you out, man.

>>55213765
I'm for the event, it allows me to diversify and spice up the Nids without altering their core, and indeed playing into it.

I'm Just not willing to Suffer the Donut Steel to Live

>>55213905
>Mary Sues

I mean, if this is the level of fundamental disagreement we've got going on here, this is really not an issue we're going to solve. You will never accept the story I've written. I'd kind of like to keep my story, but I'm not so invested in it I want to fight a perpetual war with you over your personal Xenos faction.

Therefore, I'm just going to drop the issue and move on. I've pretty well soured on the whole thing.

>you went on a sabbatical because, like, this was, like, stressing you out, man.

And as far as this goes, go fuck yourself. Shit's been busy in personal ways entirely unrelated to my distaste for using Discord, which just so happened to occur in a similar timeframe.

>>55214714
I wake up at four, work from six to six, go to the gym for an hour or two, then hop into bed no later than nine thirty, while scrambling to find time for college and vidya. It's been like this for the past three years, and will be like this for ten more months until I escape from the armed services, disappear into some isolated island nation, grow a beard, and get fat. I don't want to hear about """busy"""

As for Sotha, you can shift the narrative to me being upset about Behemoth getting Ultra'd, but if you'd taken the time to get caught up on the narrative, you'd know not only is that wrong, but dumb.

I like the idea, hate the wank. There doesn't need to be a vote, you need to catch up, or be a more active part of the conversation

We have got to resolve this animosity between you two or this entire project is going to be tainted. Need to simmer down.

>>55215133
No, that's cool. You've raised the stakes to a "This town ain't big enough for the two of us", you've found your hill to die on, you've drawn your line in the sand. Cool deal soldier, I'm glad you're pleased. You'd make a fine Guardsman, holding the line.

>>55215215
>wasting time with people that are okay with that level of HFY wank
> lack the reading comprehension skills required to fully understand the repercussions.
>having the Emperor wrap his slowly decaying lips around the Steel Souls dong, considering logically he would have censured them
>you'd know not only is that wrong, but dumb.
> There doesn't need to be a vote, you need to catch up, or be a more active part of the conversation

These are the things that are being said to me. Kincaid's decided he's right. Period. He's decided I'm an idiot/ignorant/lazy. He's decided to unilaterally declare that if I push my idea any further, he is *literally going to leave the project*. Even if every single other project contributor liked my idea, this would trigger him so hard he's out.

And you're sitting here asking people to "simmer down". Come on dude. Can you not see how inaccurate that request is?

I'm honestly tempted to push my idea even harder now, just to force him out, since apparently I have my hand on that lever, because he put it there!

>>55215215
100% this.

>>55215316
Thanks. Glad you also want us both to just shut up.

This is not an "animosity issue", or at least it shouldn't have been one. It's been MADE one, yes, but there's a difference between that and "Him or Me, pick One" that Kincaid escalated this into. You can't just calm that down, dude!

Ether he leaves, or I abandon the idea wholesale. Those are the only two options homeboy over there's leaving open. I'm not prepared to bail over this issue, so I'm backing down. But quit with the wishywashy "let's just all cool it" bullshit. That's off base.

>>55215301
To be perfectly honest Emil I love your writing style. Always have.
I have no personal problem with what you have written.
And Kincaid mate, you too. You've done some great work.
There has got to be some way we can sort through this.
I do think personal attacks are a bit much though Kincaid. We have no idea what is happening in Emils personal life.

>>55215377
Dude. It's fine. Kincaid successfully forced me into a corner, raised the stakes, and required me to either go all in or fold. So I'm folding. Further discussion is explicitly not going to be productive.

Drop it.

>>55215301
>>55215356
Actually it's called being diplomatic but now you're kinda being a dick about it, particularly given I was going to bat for the idea and stuff in general on Discord.

Like, yeah, I flat out think Kin is being extreme here, I don't agree with what he's saying and I think, flat out, he's made this into a personal issue and I think he needs to take a step back.

Your response, though, is kinda dickish here.

Guys, reading this conversation and especially one thing Emil said: How about the Steel Souls do all that, prepare to strike at the Hive Mind and then something eats all their channeled Energy away before they can strike and in his last moments Emil realizes that it was the emperor who couldn't afford to let the chance slip earing away so much psychic energy? You can close the story there or have some sentences on Emils thoughts.

But the Steel Souls seem to die in vain and sacrifice themselve for a father who prefers to eat them and gain their ower for himself instead of attacking the hive mind ( he could know that an attack would be wasted)

That would really bring the grimdark back into your little universe

>>55215876
Yeah, ok. I didn't mean to be a dick. But there *is* a distinction to be made between debate, even angry/hostile debate, and someone using the nuclear option in conversation.

Saying "Let's just all calm down" doesn't really address that specific scenario, and that's what I was getting irritated about. Usually when people say things like that, they're just uncomfortable with people conflicting and want the issue to just go away.

I really resent being backed into a corner, is all. But you're not the target of that resentment, and I'm sorry if it bled over and sounded like you were. That wasn't my intent.

>>55215971
Don't even worry about it dude.

Shut up. All of you.

Stop bitching around, damn it!

Kincaid, there are many ways to discuss something. You chose the worst one.
Emil, I understand that you're triggered. But hold on.

I have yet to read the doc, will do asap. But if I have understood the tl;dr, I will just say that sacrificing a whole Legion like this is cool. I'm fine with it. Only thing I would change are the results. Because, yes. I understand that 100k of the most powerful Astartes Psykers channeling their power to their Primarch created a *huge* power potential. Maybe you can crush Spess BBs with it. But hurting that much the Hive Mind...I don't think so. It's just too massive man. Maybe negating it control over a certain portion of a Hive Fleet for a certain period of time, negating the Shadow in the Warp so reinforcements can arrive and gain some time, as the Hive Fleet goes feral for...some days maybe, losing coherency and allowing humanity to counterattack effectively.

Tl;dr: Hurting the Hive Mind at that level seems difficult. Even with Empy intervention. The whole idea is good, just tune down the effects a little bit

>>55216237
To get an idea of how big the Hive Mind is, check the last minutes of this

https://youtu.be/Ep_1k-lOto8

The Hive Mind keeps all that together. Hurting it would be *very* difficult.

I don't like the other solutions of Empy being a massive dick tho

>>55216237
>>55216326
Having put my hand in the fire once already, I have no desire to then put my face in it to see if it still hurts, lol.

There are literally infinite other options that can be written for Emil, his Legion, and their demise/demises. I'm going to seek one. This was never meant to be carved in stone.

It's no big deal.

>>55216237
Thanks Linares. Sounds like you've got it.

>>55215988
Skimming the thread it looks like the issue is a few things.

1. What do we want the nids to be like?
This has a few options.
>Looks like Kincaid is saying leave them as OU.

>We can change them.

>Emil seems, and correct me if I'm wrong here, to want to keep them basically the same, but have Emil & co go out channeling the Emperor right into the hive mind, shattering it, or at least fragmenting it.

>There's also an option to have them reabsorbed into the Emperor, powering him up for... something mysterious.

I personally like the idea of changing the nids, but I know that that's not a popular opinion, so I'd go for the fragmenting, the idea being that the Emperor launches a wad of psyker energy straight up the Soul Wire railgun and into the middle of the Hive Mind. He drops its cohesion or something and the result is that humanity has a better chance now.
It can't be used against the Beast since the Soul Wire conduit is required, which has been being set up as a massive astrotelepathic duct to Sotha, for whatever reason. And Sotha is a massive psyker-amp thing. If anything could let the Emperor, who is not in the same sort of agony, launch a massive blow at the heart of an enemy, this is the way to do it.

Now, if we want to leave the nids totally unchanged from their OU incarnation, then we don't need to have the whole Sotha thing be a major plot point.
I really don't like the Sotha thing in the HH novels. We can find a reason to omit it from the AU if we want, and we can also have the Steel Souls elsewhere, doing other things.

>>55213905 see above

>>55212205
Assuming that the character POV's we've gotten in various BL stuff is accurate. (I personally think the Emperor actually caring about them, but recognizing that he needs to use them as tools makes it a whole lot darker.)

>>55209517
We'd had Rokuten assassinating Frederick and then getting 47 Ronin'd before Zelbezis took over and instituting his own Reign of Terror before his own dudes take him out, but given that there's no Rokuten anymore, we might have a chaos Primarch take him out or he could fall to a loyalist.
Actually, if we want to go waaaaay back to Frederick's predecessor, we could have him get incorporated into Gyahdred's graphics card rig.

>>55210684
Alright, freshly minted Warden of an Abyssal Prison here. (You get hired by the warden, then kill him. That makes you new warden according to demon rules, right?)

When last we discussed it, I think we'd had the idea that Frederick had basically assigned different legions to different tasks. Of course, this was back in the day of Rokuten and the Gorgomongers, so things may be a bit different, since no Gorgomongers means a smaller force for Mot.
Anyways, I think they still split up. The big thing for Gyahdred is laying siege to forgeworlds and bringing them back under control by more subtle means, probably working with some Filibusters, with an awesome Filibuster x Nosteratii cooperation to assassinate rogue magi and start coups. Ooh!
Totally going to have a Henry Kissinger expy.

Anyways, however it ends up, Mot goes back home, with a massive, angry fleet following him.
They proceed to shell the fuck out of Zharr-Hadad until it cracks and goes all angry Hashut Bull headed-Unicron and flies away.
>>55211789
(See above) That would then be the apotheosis of Hashut.

>>55211282
Also, canst thou go over Daemon Emil?

>>55211801
>Harming inexorable psychic horror
The warp can be harmed and the warp literally the worst thing possible. AVE IMPERATOR

>>55206371
>how about something where Kane can choose between an insane, suicidal charge to save the Emperor and saving himself from the Stompa or whatever bearing down on him.
>He flinched so to speak and that's the problem.
>The Deshane he wants to be wouldn't have hesitated.
Side note on all this:
Part of the issue here is that he's not quite sure why he hesitated.
A lot of Primarchs would have hesitated, decided that trying to tear through a Stompa was insane.
Gyahdred would have calculated that the suicidal charge was stupid and done something else.
I imagine that Einchurt would have done something similar.

Of course, in a situation like this, seconds matter, and they'd have been too late, but likely, there was no way that Deshane could have gotten there in time.
He had a Kobiyashi Maru scenario, but unlike other primarchs who would have recognized it as a no win, done their best and felt they'd been too weak, or whatever, Kane has that moment of indecision between self-sacrifice (let's be honest, Solomon would have charged immediately and died in the process, but died gloriously. DEUS VULT), and doing the smarter thing. The problem is that he's pissed. And he's feeling angry and he can't be sure that his moment of deciding wasn't influenced by that.
He can't be sure he didn't let the Emperor die because he was angry, and that's what he can't live with.

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>>55215215
>>55215301
>>55215988
Alright, so, this was a fucking disaster.

Emil, we absolutely need to get you on Discord.
If you need a hand with it, I'd be more than willing to give you a hand. You are already in the server, so it should be fairly simple. I still think you have a wrong idea of what we use Discord for, but you'll see quickly enough.

Kinnévail, holy fuck man, this has to stop. You are a good writer and you have good ideas, but this entire attitude is becoming a serious fucking problem. We'll have some personal words about this later, because this is just unacceptable.

Point is, the both of you need to get over yourselves. I'm more than willing to help you both out with whatever I can, and then hopefully we can get this all sorted.

Fuck.

>>55218077
>The Nids
The problem isn't changing them itself, the problem is how we change them. Many things have been put forward, with Kinnévail's latest suggestion requiring a diagram to understand. I'm always in favor of keeping things simple, so I'm not sure to what extent I like that.

>Sotha and the Pharos
These are actually some of my favorite things about the HH novels. The Pharos, especially combined with the idea of having Je'She's Imperial Ring block out the Astronomican, would make the Seps less dependant on Terra. That's something that I think adds to them greatly and makes their very presence more believable. The Pharos calling the Nids also allows us to make some significant changes.

>The Emperor and his sons
It's kind of inconsistent, but I do think that the Emperor does genuinely care about all of his sons to at least some extent. I prefer that interpretation anyway.

>>55218157
>Fred's fate
Having him be incorporated, or getting his shit kicked in by Mot are my favorite suggestions so far.

>>55219569
As for Fred's fate, I was wondering about having Lambach led a black crusade kind of thing, all buffed up on Nurgle Powers now. Looking for some artifact he thinks might help him, maybe Fred or one of the other Primarchs who's ultimate fate is unknown goes down like Dorn from OU in an attempt to stop the huge undead menace of a nurgle crusade?

>>55219661
There can be plenty of Black Crusades lead by different people. Chaos is even less united than in the OU this time around, so a Chosen lead Crusade with Lambach at its helm could work really well. Plenty of Nurglite Warbands, like the Iron Ancients, would follow Lambach.

Wait a second, I had a bit of an idea. Maybe a shitty one like usual, but an idea none the less.
So, the Nids attack Ultramar in the OU because the Pharos is shining on it, right? Well the Seps use it as a sort of lighhouse, but since it's directional it has to spin like a lighthouse, right? And the nids arr attracted to wherever the figgity it's shining, right?
So, the Nids show up, and start seemingly randomly attacking Sep worlds, they're going all over the place as they chase where the Pharos is shining. All the Legions are trying their damndest to stop these things, but they just. won't.
Emil puts two and two together at the start of our End Times/Gathering Strom esque events, and ends up sacrificing himself and a portion of his Legion to overload the Pharos and hopefully shut it down. It works, and the overdose of psychic GOOD STUFF temporarily fucks with the Hive Mind's control, enough to give the beleaguered worlds a reprieve and beat out the now-feral Nids eating their homes.
But it isn't permanent, and the Nids now don't have that same psychic beacon to go after. Or do they? There's a faint shimmer, just beyond Je'She's ring, one which appears oh-so enticing...

Again, if it's a bad idea, no worry.

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Still working on Aristide, but we've found this surprisingly accurate face reference.

>>55219899
The Pharos is destroyed in OU. But the idea that the Nids spin around the Pharos in a spiralling motion is pretty funny

Look. I'll say it a trillion times. The Soul's sacrifice is a gangster idea. It's just aggravating since we more or less figured this one out a thread or so ago, so Emil barging in after a leave of absence and dredging up old issues is frustrating and a waste of time.

If nothing else, Discord is good for keeping tabs on the modern issues to be discused later in the thread.

On top of that, the idea is marred by idea upon idea that is too far, and doesn't really make sense given lore available to us in the OU as well as lore of our own invention.

For example, "damaging" the Hive Mind is a can of worms, because the Hive Mind is a can of worms onto itself due to the fact that we really don't have a lot to go on as to how it works. It's the most Lovecraftian thing in the setting.

Furthermore, if the intent is to have Tyranids separated from the Hive Mind, this can be easily achieved simply by killing the Norn Queen, or if you were to catch up on my Sothanite proposition, ALL they synapse creatures. You don't have to go straight to the land of flakery and assume that you can reach out and hit the Hive Mind, when there is an explaination that is more plausible and just as impressive, while not opening the gates for derision for flakery.

As for the Emperor's intervention, I hate this idea for so many reasons. I ascribe to the loving father model of the Emperor, who's juxtaposed humanity was his undoing, because I have a healthy relationship with my Dad. But The Emperor wouldn't raise a withered tendril to save the Souls, or the Separatists. He had the Pharos destroyed in the OU for very specific reasons, and the Seps usage of it and other dangerous Xenotech would dull his sympathy for their plight.

>>55221719
Ironically, I subscribe to the "The Emperor Is Not Even Human And Has No Idea What Love Is" view and was ok with it, but you do have a point, even if I liked it for purely the idea of him being, you know, pragmatic and wanting to help humanity but you DO have a point.

>>55221719
>>55216387
Beyond that, Je'She's Imperial Ring blocks out the light of the Astronomican, which reasonably demands that the Emperor's presence outside of the Ring is limited, if not blocked completely.

Now, just as you don't really want to bothered with catching up with the thread relevant to the issue at hand, I didn't really read the entirety of your doc, but I'm pretty sure this talk of the Emperor devouring the Nids energy or what not can be dismissed with little effort.


The point is, I have no problem with your concept, I have many problems with your execution. I'm my perfect universe it would simply go down like

>Nids make B line for Sotha
>Souls funnel their spirit bomb through the Pharos
>Hive Fleet gets #rekt
>Souls die
>Nids go feral
>Seps go on extermination campaign
>Only Nids left are phages and tyranocytes
>These things devolved into Sothanites
>Kraken Norn Queen, having knowledge of what is coming, encourages sneaky bioforms
>Sneaky bioforms eat Sothanites and preserved Souls
>Psyker Nids
>Mutating smashy Nids
>Sneaky Nids

Boom. That simple, that easy. I'm not quite sure how this ruins your idea to the point of unuseablity

>>55221946
Either Emperor would go "You fuckers dug this grave."
Followed closely by, "Malcador, get the wolves."

>>55222045
Ok, I legitimately not understand or get how this ring works, and sort of dislike it, will say that.

>>55222045
>>55222136
>Je'She's Imperial Ring blocks out the light of the Astronomican
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made about this thing. The Imperial Ring is simply a long line of fortress worlds that form the border between the Imperium and Union. Je'She sets it up during and after the Brotherwar.

The Astronomican blocking property was only brought up once, and never really expanded on. You know just as much about it as we do.

Also, I'm cool with the list Kincaid put forward, up until Psyker Nids, Smashy Nids and Sneaky Nids. Just adding forms to the Sothanids is weird to me.

>>55222226
Hmmm, that is a fair point. I didn't realize the Astronomican blocking ability was so minor. Either way, I think there is sufficient evidence to say that the Emperor's intervention is I'll advised

As for the Kraken splinter fleets, you have to keep in mind that the prize was the juicy juicy Steel Souls biomass. The Tyranids don't really have any concept of funeral rites, and a lot of that biomass is preserved by the void, so Sotha was still on the menu.

But the Sothanites were never accounted for because they are completely removed from the Hive Mind are almost a race onto themselves. But the Nids aren't going to just NOT eat this shit, especially since the Nites are actively trying to infect them.

But Nids being Nids are more adaptable than the Nites, and the Nites lose the war. Now the Kraken Norn Queen has a bunch of highly volatile genetic materiel, like these nasty fuckers http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ymgarl_Genestealer and a bunch of really great Primarch and Psyker DNA.

So why muddy the waters and put the powder keg mutant DNA with the psychoactive genetic material? Sneaky splinter is just Kraken fleets that the Seps managed to tangle up on their way to Sotha.

Splintering the Fleet into three distinct forms gives the Nids some desperately needed flavor, but also makes them a little less dangerous to the Seps, but keeps them as a nuisance

I need to detail what Hashutan cult marines are. I'm thinking something like the Iron Warrors' warpsmiths, but I don't know if that would equate well with things like berzerkers or noise marines.

>>55223300
Adequate in which sense? I think that having cultists Smiths could be a nice idea.

>>55223300
Maybe special oblits?
Obliterator sorcerers?

>>55223300
I'd say more like they are folks with like daemon-powered bionics or maybe adapt the concept of the Chaos Dwarfs Curse of Stone into a Curse of Metal, where they slowly become incomprehensible warp machine until it totally seizes them and they become fully machine. Maybe have grades, like the basic troop who get benefits, and then fully warped ones, led by a controlling warp smith, as Rubricae don'r exist so some of those concepts can be used.

Alternatively, the Infernal Guard could be a base, in this version they are marines who have fused to their armor and cannot remove it? Or have the a K'daai Trooper and Termiator set as it.

>>55223543
>K'daai
I fucking forgot about the K'daai. It'll be them. Maybe the curse of bronze is a thing that effects the Forge Lords in general and they cut off the bits that are turning to metal and replace them with bionics, kind of like the Iron Warriors do. The irony of removing metal just to replace it with more metal is not lost on them.

>>55223300
>Fire Rubric Marines
>Oblits and make them inaccessible to other legions
>Beastmen
>Bulltaurs

>>55223588
>Originally the elite first company terminators of the XX legion, the K'daai Fireborn are considered some of the most blessed in Hashut's eyes. They become little more than sentient fire confined to their armor, burning hot enough to melt bolt shells and refract lasfire in mid-air. The ranks of the K'daai have swelled since the brotherwar, as more marines succumbed to the condition and joined them. Despite this, very few of the original K'daai remain, and those that do are immensely powerful.

>>55221719
>the idea is marred by idea upon idea that is too far

You keep saying things like this, talking down to me. I understand everyone has their own opinion, but don't pretend like your opinion is fact regarding power levels. I'm sure if we dug back through everyone else's work, we'd find lots of other extreme or "questionable" writing/decisions too.

Except those don't trigger you, because they're not targeted at your personal favorites. And so they've gone unremarked upon.

>>55222045
>Hive Fleet gets #rekt
That's part of the issue I have. Regular ass Ultramarines beat back a Hive *Fleet* and while they took many losses, they weren't outright erased from existence. The entire 1,000 man Chapter didn't even die, to say nothing of the "Legion", even though of course they broke into Successors. Hive Fleets? Literally who gives a fuck. Hive Fleets are jobbers, always have been and probably always will be because GW doesn't love them very much.

>Extra Tyranid forms and what not

Just like everyone coming up with 50 different custom patterns and custom formations and custom units and custom whatever per Legion, all that does is muddy the waters and make it impossible for people to follow. It simultaneously deletes any significance the death of a Legion/Primarch has, AND makes the narrative harder to keep focused. There's no reason to invent these things.
>>55195803

But ultimately here's the deal.

Sothanids don't exist.

At least, not unless the group now intends to write them from whole cloth. Everyone needs to stop wasting their time discussing them, because the Steel Souls are no longer in conflict with the Nids. They won't be anywhere near that area. It's all good, no worries, move on.

Maybe they'll fight Necrons, idk. Anyone a diehard Necron fanboy in the group? Or do we have anyone with $30,000 worth of Eldar models which must be defended should the Souls fight against them? I'd like to know before I step on another landmine.

>>55223648
Actually hold on. Before I write any more I'll paste what I have written on the K'daai already.

Named after a mythical bound fire spirit from the mythology of ancient Zharr-Hadad, the K’daai Fireborn are an elite formation of Terminators of the Forge Lords. Their armor, Indomitus-K’daai pattern Tactical Dreadnought Armor as it is known officially, is a design that arose from the mind of Mot Hadad himself, based upon visions and dreams that plagued him. It was only later that it became apparent that these were some of the visions of Hashut, who sought a warp-aligned mind of enough capacity to receive his wisdom, a prophet for his mechanical darkness.

Crafted with the utmost skill, K’daai suits have greater strength than other models of Terminator armor due primarily to the vastly increased power output of their internal generators, notable for their larger exhausts and radiators compared to normal Indomitus-patterned armor. The armor materials were treated so as to withstand extremes of heat, and suits environmentally sealed to an even higher degree than normal, allowing them to walk through the heart of a volcano and yet emerge unscathed. This made them nigh immune to heat-based weaponry, from lowly flamers to melta weaponry or even the arcane workings of the volkite. However, the power output also led to a massive increase in heat, such that the heavy, spiked boots of the armor often melted the ground beneath them.
1/2

>>55223770
Rather than a problem, this was embraced by Mot, who utilized the darkly divine inspiration to modify the force field generators of the suits, creating a blazing corona around the suits. This created a double effect, where before some projectiles even struck the field they would be weakened; bolter rounds detonated in the air before impact, lasers and plasma destabilized by the raging heat. Further, the heat often made it difficult for enemies engaged in close combat to deal with them; the heat would scorch the eyes and targeting sensors made it difficult to track, while exposed cables and even metal would often begin to slag under extensive exposure. Each step they took left behind footprints of rapidly cooling molten glass, jagged due to the spikes and tread of their heavy feet.

K’daai were armed with large burning blades, either in the form of axes or swords usually, based on modified power weapons that intentionally raised the temperature of the blade over 600 degrees, giving a chance to set foes alight with blows and cutting through armor like a hot knife through slabs of fat. Usually, in their off-hand they mounted a pyreblast meltaguns, while some even had pyreblast multimeltas. Flamers and heavy flamers were also utilized, as well as volkite weaponry; their heat-based effects were less susceptible to destabilization when outbound, even if it was often folly to use such arms against the K’daai.

Though powerful, K’daai Armor was volatile, and when ruptured often led to catastrophic explosions. Later, Mot Hadad would integrate daemon-binding into the engines as another way of crafting, yet this had similar results when warp fiends would escape their binding in catastrophic fashion.

>>55223724
Emil. You seriously need to get off your high horse and pop onto Discord right now. This has gone on for long enough. If things continue like this we're going to keep having this disconnect where you are three steps behind everyone else, and everyone keeps getting antsy because we're never moving on.

We're not suddenly changing the entire Sothanid thing because of this terrible discussion. The Sothanids are a thing that's happening. We're also not ditching them, just because you and Kincaid got into an argument.

Your arguments are perfectly legitimate, and this discussion is worth having, but not like this. And I don't want your response to be "B-but Kincaid", I want your response to be "Fine, let's talk this out". If it makes you feel any better, I've already properly scolded Kincaid for this disaster, let's hope you can be more reasonable.

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>>55223780
>K’daai were armed with large burning blades, either in the form of axes or swords usually, based on modified power weapons that intentionally raised the temperature of the blade over 600 degrees
Pic very much related

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>>55224042
>>55223780

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>>55224042
>>55224119
Hot Rod from Dead Island?

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>>55223770
>>55223780
On a more serious note though, these guys are really cool. One thing I do have to wonder though, shouldn't the K’daai pattern armor be a Saturnine variant? It would make sense, considering Mot himself is a fan.

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>>55225246
Yes, I believe it should.

Well boys, I believe that I have some inkling as to the origins of Hashut. Give these a read.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Balphomael

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Horned_Darkness

>>55225512
I don't really see how this really related to Hashut? Am I missing something?

>>55226318
>"horned shadow"
[Balphomael] has no direct allegiance to any other of its daemonic kind and seems to be a creature of Chaos Undivided. It is primarily interested in demanding sacrifices by mortals, and in exchange gives its pawns fragments of its power. The Daemon is a powerful entity and can not be controlled or bound by any mortal Sorcerers.
>The Cult's principle goal is to further the power, wealth, and influence of its ruling cabal while also pleasing its hidden patron by conducting human sacrifices.
I'm saying that Balphomael and Hashut are one and the same. Mot goes to Calixis at some point to conquer it, and perhaps this is where he first encounters Hashut.

>>55226567
Ehhh, I dunno, maybe. I prefer the warp present AI over these lines of fluff from a specific Dark Heresy book.

Hey guys, I have a lot going on in no life right now, and I can't really keep up with the project anymore, so I'm going to be stepping down from the project.

If you anyone wants to pick up Kinnévail and the Singers I wouldn't mind at all, but if you guys want to scrap them that's fine too, I'll just keep them in my back pocket if another AU comes around, either way, easy come easy go

>>55226713
I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the AI thing. I was imagining that Marduk told Mot that Hashut was an AI when he sent him to pick it up, but never that it actually was one.

>>55227958
Same, desu. A link to the Forge of Souls also could fit.

>>55227246
It's a shame to see you go mate. No good.
We kinda need the singers if you don't mind us adopting them? They are fairly inportant.
Stick your head in when you get the chance and catch up?

>>55225512
These sound good, but I prefer keeping Hashut's origins a mystery. Also it's chaos. All of these are true. None of them are.
Still, having neat lurking things works awesome.

>>55225246
>>55225443
Please stop. I can only be so erect.

>>55227246
If you have time, check in from time to time. I liked your stuff.

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>>55202138
>>55202367
Alright, getting back on track, Aristede, majestic Sun-King type. How about something like pic related to him, too.

That's Richelieu at the Siege of La Rochelle.

As for his legion, I imagine generally very capable polymaths, sort of like a French version of the Blood Angels or Emperor's Children or Ultramarines.

We'd been thinking a lot of fast moving artillery, shoot and scoot whirlwinds and air dropped rapiers to complement the jetbike cavalry.
I think Aristede is the sort to see the potential in things and then take them and make them his own.
He sees Gyahdred working with air dropped field artillery and asks him to work on it for him. Has him do up some new tank designs and so we get the Sicaran.
Assur is great with the Sicaran and armor in general, but Aristede, there's a few designs designed just for him and he gets the most out of them. He's all about theat synthesis. And so when he designs his coalition, its the same way.

>>55233461
I've actually got quite a bit worked out on what I want him to look like. I can't really share them all right now, but I will be sure to once I get home.

Good points here though. Richelieu wasn't an angle I'd considered before. The dude looked incredible though, I remember genuinely being impressed when I saw that painting in my history book.

>>55229554
>>55231585
Ah man, I'll definitely miss you guys.

But this is going to be a permanent situation if you really want to know, I got silenced. In my profession you have to watch what you say and what who you say it to. On social media you have to be three times as careful. The internet, 4chan especially, is a safe haven, a place where I can for once speak freely without fear of undue rebuttal or censorship. And then I told Mot, the sweetest Anon I've had the pleasure to work with, to not worry about Emil, who keep in mind has a Primarch that doesnt get killed by the Emperor when it's revealed he knows about Chaos, called his rocksteady and well wrought ideas silly. And then those messages disappeared. Raj deleted him because he felt that appeasing Emil was more important than bolstering Mot. So I threw my hands up and left, that was unacceptable in my mind, that Raj would capitulate to someone who is barely part of the project over a cornerstone member, and capitulate to the point where my voice didn't matter.

So yeah, I'm not coming back. And when I *did* decide that my leaving was rash and I'll thought out, what did I find? Smugly assured Emil and LK with my fucking legion, talking about how horrible a guy I was, but how closely we worked together. Which, for the record is bullshit. I would ask her where she was at with Sisters stuff so I could work on Ecclesiarchy stuff and you know what I get in response? Nothing, nada, zip. There was no partnership, nothing. So fuck her too.

So yeah. I'm not coming back, and you know what? I'm taking the Doomsingers with me, LK can finally have her own legion

>>55235448
The situation has been resolved already.

Whatever petty grievances you may have with Emil, they don't matter anymore. Your perceived persecution has gone on for long enough. You've shitted up this entire thread and took up the better part of my evening trying to calm the flames.

I didn't really like the idea of you leaving at first, but now that I've heard various opinions about the matter, it really is for the best. Now do the thing we all want you to do and just leave, don't come back a day later, hoping we'll cater to whatever your wishes are anyway.

We like the work you've done, and we'll be keeping the very solid ground work you've laid out for us. You'll be given credit where your credit is due, but we're keeping the Doomsingers and Kinnévail Kincaid.

This is shitshow's over.

Oh uh, i was looking at seeing if i could work on this too... it looks like theres a legion slot up for grabs? Are kiwi marines cool?

>>55236541
Unfortunately, no, the legion slot did not become available. We are still very interested in hearing whatever input you've got for us.

>>55236558
Oh, uh sure.

What is there to do?

>>55236569
Well, we've still got a lot of room for successors, xenos races, guard regiments and other non-Astartes factions.

We'd also like to hear what you think of the legions and what we've already got so far. Input is always appreciated.

>>55236588
Sure, where can I find all the stuffs? There was a 1d4chan page but it was pretty barebones

>>55236597
There's a sheet in the OP that links to all the legion documents. There's also a link to previous threads, along with a link to our discord, if you're interested in that.

>>55236634
Oh sweet. Can I just hop in? I pretty much only use Discord for ERP and WoW

>>55236641
Sure!

>>55236645
Call me Jon or Fred!

Have we ever discussed Grey Knight or Deathwatch equivalents?

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>>55233461
>>55237553
Right, so, it seems that our latest addition is more than willing to pick up the slack with the Dragoons for us.

First off, henceforth the Separatist Warmaster shall be known as Jon'Frederic Aristide, just to make it that tiny bit more disgustingly French.

As to what he looks like, I've been giving that a bit of thought. Frederic should be tall and lean. Not as tall as Linares or Pacha, but also not nearly as bulky as they are.

As for armor, no Terminator plate. Loads of medals and other decorations, as well as a sash going across the chest. His shoulder pads should also resemble epaulets.

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>>55237646
His helmet should look something like pic related too, maybe even pointier at the top. Maybe even with a laurel on it?

This guy is the first son, the Stallion of the Emperor. He should be a glorious sight to behold.

I'll get into his bike later.

>>55237597
Not really, no. The Grey Knights just sort of happens, as does the Inquisition. The only problem is that Malcador dies before the war really happens so.... there's quite a bit we need to sort out there.

>>55237673
I mean, we could just... not.

Like, Deathwatch was discussed, but Grey Knights not.

>>55238690
Most of the Grey Knights' stuff is already on Titan though. Not to mention that Solomon kinda rocks proto-Grey Knight armor, so he might have some sort of clue.

>>55238702
Fair.

>Idea for traitor guard

>based on infiltration and subterfuge

>so the point of the legion would be that they would pretend that they were actual imperial guard regiments and that the will try to insert operatives into loyalist units as well to cause chaos and corrupt the units as well

>follow chaos undivided

>various roles that each of followers of each gods

>Khornates: involved in direct combat

>Slaaneshi: seducing various targets over to the side of chaos by various means

>Nurglites: can work with Khornates or Tzeenetch units to spread disease amoung their enemies from either within their ranks or in direct combat

>Tzeenetch followers: are the ones who are the commanders or are the ones who are directly infiltrating Imperial units or institutions

>When not infiltrating imperal units the tend to rely on guerilla tactics

>Are fleet based

>>55239065
So, basically a dedicated Chaos Unidived Traitor Guard? I can dig that.

Where do they come from, and who do they ally themselves with?

>>55237673
maybe the pauldrons should have an ermine trim to reinforce his cultural basis and make him appear more overtly regal

>>55240214
I could see that working... though Solomon might also be trying that aesthetic. Any concrete examples you had in mind?

>>55240336
Not really. I was thinking something Like Tollund's fur trim in pic combined with the stereotypical trim you find on crowns. effectively replacing the metal trim the average space marine's pauldrons have

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>>55240764
>>55240336
forgot pic

>>55237646
>Jon'Frederic
>Not HONHONHONFrederic

>>55240773
Alright, that works. With the new Fred anon around, we could look into having a bust done sooner than expected.

>>55241211
Jon'Frederic "Digustingly French" Aristide

>>55241211
Jon'Frederic "White Flag Baguetter" Aristide

>>55243468
>Jon'Frederic "Flog the Frog" Aristide

>>55243494
>Jon'Frederic "Evacuation in 2 months" Aristide

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>>55237646

>>55243494
>>55243468
>>55242549
>>55237646

Jon'Frederic doesn't quite work for me prosodically.
Jean-Fredric?
Since that's how they spell it, ne?

>>55238702
I like there being a sort of Knights Templar Conspiracy Theory angle to the Knights, but I think he's too Eldar influenced to be properly brought into things by Malcador.

>>55239065
Do it.

>>55241211
>>55242549
>>55243468
Hahaha. Bullying the Stallion is unacceptable

This does give me an idea about punishment in the regimented and disciplined Dragoons, be the Emperical or Truimphant.

Guillotines and quartering by bike comes to mind.

Some ideas about Jon's feelings about the other 'Marchs, as I understand them

>Rahman and Kincaid are his favoured weapons, and their rivalry forces them to each play to their strengths. When he can, he will ensure that the Singers and the Corsairs deploy together. Whole systems will be annexed without force as the Primarchs charm, threaten, and buy the hearts and minds of the people in a fevered competition that's little more than sport for the Privateer and the Bard-Lord. Personally, he enjoys them both, Rahman more than Kincaid, the former being more openly refined. Jon finds Kincaid's air of calculated savagery to be demeaning to the Bard, and hypocritical to a degree. However he can get along with both well enough, and discuss the finer things in life.

>Ashur is a noble savage in the eyes of the Stallion, a kingly figure albiet primitive. Ashur takes some measure of comfort in the luxury of the Dragoons, but Jon's lordly presence is off putting. There is a mutual respect amongst monarchs, but little love

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>>55245809
Dropped my pic

So the Loyalists have an Imperial Ring and a death star, the Traitors have a flying Daemon engine forge world, what do the Seps have?

What do you guys think about Dyson spheres or ring worlds?

>inb4 half life memes

>>55245976
Dyson Spheres and Ringworlds are a little bit large/complex/powerful, even by 40k's standards. As far as we know from canon, not even Dark Age humanity built those. The Necrons might have built a single one I think, since there's a tiny bit of fluff about how a Hive Fleet or tendril thereof went around a thing that looks like a Dyson Sphere instead of trying to eat it.

>>55247417
There are human-inhabitted ringworlds, one is mentioned in the Militarum Tempestus codex

>>55247565
Full on Robert Heinlein, 400 million times the surface area of Terra Ringworlds, or like Halo's large-but-still-much-less-than-circling-a-star Ringworlds?

>>55247607
Halo size, I believe

>>55247617
Well, that's still awfully big. But things like the Phalanx exist, so idk. Maybe?

>>55247417
>not even Dark Age humanity built those.
That might have been due to humanity just not wanting to build them. That or Men of iron/Psyker awakening/Xeno incursions fucked them so hard theres no a trace of them left.

Shit. Imperium Asunder never got sick ass legit character art. Damn.

>>55247756
I guess so, but in that case people in 40k, or even 30k, almost certainly won't be able to build such things on their own. The tech and industry simply isn't there anymore. And it'd take a very, very long time also. Maybe millennia. So it seems unlikely that anyone in the Great Crusade era would even consider such a project, when they have so many other things that need doing.

And later on, when the threats are ramping up more with each passing year, and the Seps are trying just to reorganize the vastness of dispersed, poorly centralized Ultima? Where would they get the impetus to build these things? And how, barring generous handwavium?

>>55248059
If you want them to have a megastructure their best bet would be hijacking some locked down structure from the war in heaven maybe. Though some unnammed race could have put together a megastructure that was lost to time when the race went extinct.

>>55248134
Perhaps. Maybe the Seps find most/all of the Blackstone Fortresses or something. Those are at least well-supported by canon and we mostly know what they can do.

I personally feel uneasy about adding in true megastructures, I guess.

>>55248173
Thing about megastructures is there so big you could wreck 90% of it and still have enough left over its useable.

>>55248199
Void whale time?

>>55247816
Were you on that project, anon?

>>55249000
Let's see if my trip works this time...

>>55248173
I could see the Fortresses but don't see why honestly, either.

I like adding stuff and run off rule of cool a lot but seems pointless.

>>55249000
Maybe... Yes.

The Seps stealing three or four Blackstone Fortresses could work. Also, maybe they find some kind of artifact from the War in Heaven that's brutal.

>Grudug Meathands (Placeholder name maybe subject to change).
Grudug is a massive Prime ork rumoured to be a descendant of Thundacok himself, If there is any truth to these rumours is completely unknown but Grudug certainly does nothing to dissuade the notion. Grudug considers himself the best pirate to have ever lived and as such has a bitter rivalry with the Chapter Master of the Corsairs Gallant who would happily see him dead. Grudug on the other hand more or less sees the Chapter Master as his best friend, as good opponents are hard to find and is always looking to stick his nose into Corsair business.
Not as interested as many other warbosses in Crumping for Crumping’s sake Grudug thinks of himself as a visionary amongst ork kind and through sheer brutal cunningness and his fair share of cunning brutalness has managed to establish himself a base of power amongst the stars that form the area of grey space between the Loyalist and Separatist Imperiums. Here he rules over the wretched world of “Shatterskull”. Any Rogue Traders seeking safe passage usually try to gain the favor of Grudug Meathands, as the wily ork can guarantee a degree of safety if the price is right, those who don’t are want to meet an ill fated end to their voyages.
Many a plucky warboss has tried to usurp Meathands’ power usually with the argument that his behavior is down right “Unorky”. Grudug is more than happy and capable of putting these power hungry upstarts in their place.

More to come on shatterskull after dinner. but how is this for a very bare bones baseline for the character?

>>55251806
I hope he's a well-known raider, that launches Waaagh!-raids to planets to loot and fuck off inmediately after. Hit-and-Run Waagh!

And yeah, stablishing an Empire in No-Man's-Land is a good idea.

>>55252256
Oh yeah he definitely does Waaagh. but not just for the sake of it, he is a rare occurrence among orks. He sees past the present, his waaaghs have an end goal for profit.

>>55251806
I like the concept, but I'm not sold on the name

>>55252494
Names can change, we had a few thrown up earlier but a lot of them were memes haha. I did say place holder name for that reason. Open to suggestions.

>>55251806
Grudug Toofmonger, given he's rich and powerful, is my vote.

Incidentally, the likely Grand Admiral/Fleetmaster (technically, two separate titles but held in joint by one person always) would be Mahmud Keita'mansa (as the Legion Master inherits the 'mansa suffix, and all the Legion have the same last name, as they are legally adopted by Rahman into the family,) who holds the position as equivalent of First Captain during Rahman's days and then after the primarch disappears, he takes over as the equivalent of the Legion Master.

>>55251806

>Shatterskull Pirate World (Again Placeholder name, I struggle with these so please help me)
Once a prominent forgeworld, the real name having been lost to the ages Shatterskull is ruled over by the iron fist of Grudug Meathands, from here he launches his vast fleets on his various Waaaghs. Grudug is cunning enough to know that should he become too much of a thorn in the side of the Loyalists or the Separatists he could run the risk of being wiped out as a nuisance, so he consolidates his power here and prefers his own orky version of diplomacy to brutal rampages. Grudug is willing to work with the more shady members of both factions for the right price and has set up an array of “Onion Knight” type smugglers to move illegal contraband through Grey space.
Shatterskull is more or less Mos Eisley the world over and more than just orks can be found there, though only the hardest and strongest of criminals would even attempt to eek out an existence on the planet. Fortunately for Grudug the 41st millennium is overflowing with enough of these characters to completely populate planet and cause it to thrive. There is a very feeble attempt at law keeping but none pay it too much heed.
His Waaaghs are strictly orks though it is not uncommon for swaths of shatterskulls inhabitants to follow in the Waaaghs wake scavenging whatever they can from the suffering of others.

Again this is all VERY bare bones and am more than happy to stip bits out and flesh out the stuff people like and agree with.

>>55249911
Who were you?

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I tried to draw my helmet

>>55249911
I want to know too.

Kor? Graha'Nak? Alexios?

>>55254142
That looks sick man. Pretty much exactly how I imagined it. I like Fred having that 'vertical' design, with his armor drawing the eyes up to the sky.

Some ideas

>Chevalier Guy Maxime, the Dark Horse
>A maverick and relavite outsider amongst the polished Dragoons, the Dark Horse is the best duelist of the Dragoons, a Grand Joust contender and frequent winner. Infamous within the Legion for breaking bike squadron formation and taking objectives single handedly, and going out of his way to strike down enemy commanders in open combat. In the outbreak of the Brotherwar the marine was gifted a Vorpal Chain, and defected from the Legion, calling allegiance to the Imperium, rejecting the hubris of his gene sire.

>Destroyer Lucan Lancier
>A member of the secretive "gentleman's club" hidden within the Legion and others, Lucan was the most acclaimed assassin and recon marine in the Dragoons, his charisma keeping morale high when his recon and later destroyer elements became separated from the larger element and found themselves behind enemy lines. Not necessarily an oddity in the Legion, Lucan's secretive operations spared the Dragoons from grueling engagements.

>The Stag
>An anonymous rider of the Dragoons, the Stag is the best rider in the Legion, second to the Primarch himself. Some say the Stag has another, smaller helmet under his helmet and under that is a tapestry of Kinnévail Kincaid, that he is actually a shapeshifting Xenos and he's banned in 200 systems, that his limbs are made of grox hide and his heart is a engine harnessing a sun, that his voice can only be heard by Felinids, and that he was born on his attack bike a fully grown Marine. All the rest of the Imperium knows...is that he's known only as the Stag. It is rumoured that the Stag is an honorary position passed down from from exemplary Dragoons that show valor and skill on the battlefield, evidenced by the different colours that the Stag has worn throughout history, the most notable being the Black Stag. Recently the Stag bears only white, unadorned armor, reinforcing his anonymity.

PROMPT:
Does your legion have any geneseed deficiencies? How does it affect their operations and traditions?

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>>55256427
>>Chevalier Guy Maxime, the Dark Horse
Really cool. An Emperor's Dragoon until the bitter end.


>Destroyer Lucan Lancier
Gentleman's club, eh? Is that like a warrior lodge? Those things did lead to Chaos...

Cool character, no gripes on my end

>The Stag
Ha.

I would give him actual antlers, just to make it a tiiiiiiny bit less obvious.

>>55256566
The Marchers' geneseed frequently leads to muscular deterioration in the knees and ankles. This leads to an excessively high number of Titan Marchers replacing their lower bodies with cybernetic limbs. They don't mind this much though, the metal legs allow them to march for longer periods of time and they allow them to better emulate the colossal war machines they love.

>>55256566
Whether of incompetency, faulty equipment or their Primarch's personal genecode, the Legion's gene-seed was so impure that hardly created functional organs. Malfunctioning Sus-An membrane. Ossmodula working at insane levels. Marines bigger than usual, same for Biscopea. Larraman's Organ could be no longer and won't matter at all. Catalepsean node doesn't work properly. Preomnor and Oolitic kidney letting go lesser venoms and toxins, as alcohol. Lyman's ear doesn't work. Betcher's gland missing. At first, recruits received this gene-seed, but with time, the Emperor forbid them of recruiting more until a solution was found. The lack of recruits, the casualties taken, and the lack of a solution, made the Emperor give an ultimatum to the Legion: Fix yourselves, or be terminated. Linares went full "Let’s deal with it!" and started working with the Apothecarion to find the needed solution. The following months were overwhelming for the Apothecarion. In their shoulders rested the lives of the full Legion. When the ultimatum was about to expire, Linares, along with his Apothecarii, presented the now working gene-seed.

Some organs were not fixed at all. Both the Ossmodula and the Biscopea were left nearly untouched, as being big even for an Astartes isn’t a flaw itself, and became a trait of the Legion. The venom/toxin-fighter organs were partly fixed, but modified to not instantly reject alcohol.

Still flawed, and lacking stability, but working fine, the Legion fought during the Heresy with that gene-seed, but the Apothecarii started working on improvements as soon as they returned to Kadir. As of 990.M41, the gene-seed is working as intended, almost no flaws and very stable in general. Sometimes, variations occur. And they are huge.

>>55256566
The Steel Souls do have one particularly notable gene-seed defect, but since the Primarch's backstory may be undergoing revision, it might no longer be a thing. I will need external input from the group to resolve that.

>>55256967
The only noticeable effect on the Legion's Traditions is that they are usually very protectives over their G-S. They try to recover as much as possible, as it's a good and viable source to replicate it, and have a huge stockpile of G-S in their ditect possession, just in case is needed. They also have a selection of the finest Gene-Seed of each batch, and they use them to create more Gene-Seed.

The process is complicated, and as the Silver Blades' G-S is inherently flawed, any minor mistake can lead to a fully flawed batch. These are usually destroyed. The Legion, however, has developed a method that makes replicating their Gene-Seed easier, so most of the new G-S batches are nearly perfect, by the Legion's standards.

>>55254106
>>55254687
alright fine, its Enoch again. Keep doin the lawd's work anons and namefags

>>55257206
Want to hop into this train?

>>55257206
OH shit, hey Enoch! Good having ya man. Feel free to look around.

So there's a thought I had regarding the Ruinstorm:
Currently, the ritual that transforms Ashur into a Daemonprimarch is only the setup so that the actual storm may be cast at a later time with Leviathan Host sorcerors.

Now that I've looked at the timeline, again, I feel it would be fitting to have an envoy of both Leviathan Host and Chosen of Hecate sorcerors be sent to join the Loxodontii's 4th chapter and helping in overthrowing Ashur, then adding to the ritual that will launch the Ruinstorm. The difference will be that now, Ashur's soul is the sacrifice offered on the galactic altar that is Babylon V. The Dark Gods like their new toy so much they costumise it so it may kill in their name, turning Ashur into a Daemonprimarch.

So the idea is:
>Ashur rallies all PHant chapters, the 4th chapter is accompanied by LH and CoH sorcerors in secret.
>Ashur is collared
>Phants go crazy, turn Babylon V into giant altar
>Chaos ritual for the Ruinstorm claims Ashur's soul among others
>He is transformed so he may kill and bring in more souls
>Punitive strike against Phants succeeds, but ritual finishes nonetheless and the Ruinstorm is unleashed

>>55258802
So, the Ruinstorm is created along Ashur's ascension to Daemonhood?
And what kind of punitive strike are we talking about?

>>55258861
It's a writefaggotry moment in the Lox-doc called "The Collaring of the Beast".

Ashur recalls all his troops to Babylon V to punish his men for gruesome and cruel behaviour, where he is then betrayed and collared by his own men as they'd mostly turned to Chaos at this point. A few surviving Loxodontii manage to escape the slaughter of the still-Loyalists and contact Je'She to report the legion's traitorous behaviour. They don't actually know at this point that the Loxodontii's forces have fallen to Chaos, and just view it as an act of treason, so Je'She sends two legions (Golden Mountains and Doomsingers) to punish the Loxodontii and if possible rescue Ashur.

>>55258992
Neat.

>>55258802
I'll offer Mendel as my Sorc if it helps yoir writing. Though by this time he will be in a dreadnaught because he was nearly killed hy Raj. So an Alpha level psyker in a dreadnaught, he's already starting to go a little mental at times.

>>55256427
These guys all seem cool. Had a chuckle at the Stag.

I should let you know though the rules for the Joust means a Marine can only enter the 1 time so your guy would probably just win the first one he went to, claim his shoulder guard and then lord it up.

>>55259265
A powerful psyker would definitely help however I wonder if a more expendable individual wouldn't be more appropriate, seeing how they'd definitely expect to get into serious trouble what with the Loxodontii going into a frenzy.

>>55259504
A fair point, thpugh at this time the CoH Librarians are close to far rarer than previously and are now "protected" by nurgles curse.

>>55259504
Well, we are talking about a Dread...isn't expendable but you still have to manage to kill him.

>>55258802
How do you think the extention due to Hashut's apotheosis should go down?

The exact moment he ascends is probably something we should nail down.

>>55259318
>>55256919

I'm thinking of having the Stag be the Grand Joust Contender, and he always wears the Pauldron, the idea being that he never loses. But it's always a different Dragoon underneath the armor, and if they lose, die, or fail to be the best in the Legion, the title and position is stripped from the marine and given to his superior, who then contends in the Joust to retain the Stag and the pauldron.

Guy Maxime broke tradition when he disobeyed orders as the Stag and was stripped of the position. Then using the technicality of his previous anonymity, was able to duel again in the Grand Joust, earning him his guard.

The Stags to follow became more rigid in their mystique, to preserve tradition in spite of Guy's boldness.

I think another idea is to introduce an element of sportsmanship into the Legion. The legion is serious, and by and large conventional, but the affluence and gentlemanly honour is more prevalent in certain echelons, allowing them to treat the crusade as sport.

I imagine this would be implemented in a contest much like the Grand Joust, but while the Joust is about an individual's combat prowess, there could be a Great Hunt focussing on teamwork and coordination.

I suppose the game would follow that an informal council of Primarchs and commanders would come together and decide on an objective. Be it an enemy commander, a particularly hardy and noteworthy vehicle or automata, or an actual objective like an emplacement or city square that has proven particularly hard to conquer. Once the quarry has been agreed upon the involved parties will assemble a hunting party of 10 to 20 individuals. The objective is to kill or capture the quarry before the other parties and the Stag, that will ride alone.

The prize could be Fred's lance gifted to the winning legion Primarch.

>>55262040
The Stag is turning out to be a suprisingly interesting character, so the additional mythos is nice. It being a title like Cypher is also really cool.

Valorn and the Pale Hounds would take interest in such tournaments. Let's see how he feels about it.

You're keeping the lance then?

>>55256566
The Corsairs Gallant have a remarkably stable geneseed in terms of mutation resistance and maintaining organs, but suffer from a major flaw: the geneseed is even more selective than normal in terms of implantation acceptance, severely limiting the pool of recruits, and leading to the encouragement of noble breeding lines.

Corsairs Gallant recruits have samples taken for artificial implantation before they are elevated, and methods to generate genetic seed are utilized after, with those of rank being 'married' in arrangements to members of noble houses as part of both political and practical methods.

Some of the earliest Filibuster operations were done to acquire samples of geneseed from other legions, covertly, for study, as they sought out methods of enhancing their own geneseed. Later, Rahman pursued other methods, making contact with a radical separatist Mechanicum magos by the name of Belisarius Cawl in hopes of improving his Legion above and beyond, as if they would always be few, they would at least be the best...

>>55256566
The Mountains lack both the Preomnor and the Betcher's Gland. Naturally, this meant that the Space Marines of the Second Legion had to rely on normal food. When Pacha came, he got them into cooking and it became a Legion tradition, the most skilled chefs getting the honor of getting their power armor gauntlets painted white. This also means that while exploring new planets, the Mountains are often in the look for edible foodsources, and they need to bring plenty of foodstuff when going of campaign, if just Golden Mountain Pattern Rations.

Additionally, they don't have a fully functioning Oolitic Kidney, which the Mountains' adeptness at melee combat and overall higher stamina and endurance had ended up concealing until the censuring, when it was revealed that they were vulnerable to the massive amounts of the toxin that Isehko's Smoke Stalkers assumed would be necessary to put down a Space Marine nonlethally. After the Brotherwar, this led them to devising plans to quickly bring in Apothecaries or evacuate afflicted brothers if any clues that the enemies may be using poisoned weapons are found.

>>55258992
How about Solomon instead, his Eldar buddies tell him. Makes things more awkward for everyone involved.

>>55263721
>Solomon
>Loyalist
>Eldar buddies

U wot

>>55251806
Works for me. What's an onion thing?

>>55252807
Better name.

>>55256427
As others have said, I like these a lot.

>>55256566
>>55263721
By which I mean if Solomon shows up and starts attacking before those survivors can get to Je'She, it looks like Solomon has lost his mind. It screws things up at the negotiating table and makes Solomon look bad.
Then when Je'She sends some more dudes, it looks like Je'She is cleaning up the mess.

>>55256566
The Death's Heads have issues fully recovering from their wounds, and many veteran Legionairres proudly sport their pocked, cracked, and stitched visages.

>>55264002
He's space brettonians.

>>55264004
Onion knight basically refers to people who smuggle stuff not really worth smuggling normally. It's a character in Game of thrones too.

Metric bump

>>55264002
>>55264296
Solomon is basically King Arthur, and his Merlin is an Eldar. He's manipulated by them from the very beginning, and eventually becomes the Carmine Knight, a legendary Sanguinor figure that sometimes appears in a tank.

>>55267202
THAT REMINDS ME
What are we doing with the Sanguinala?

>>55267449
Rajmas

>>55267449
Kroporween

>>55256566
Physically, IXth legion gene-seed appears to have an altered Catalepsean Node. Changing it so that Sentinels can last 15-20 days without sleeping. However, going to the limit of the organ induces a single-mindedness and a lack of awareness as the brain continues to systematically shut down. Other side-effects known include the usual hallucination and psychosis.
Another physical mutation is a corrupted Melanochrome, where the skin becomes tough and leathery.
Mental side-effects of the Sentinel gene-seed include a tendency to think, plan and act with the long term in mind. Which others may view as unnecessary

>>55251806
>>55252874
I can get behind this

>>55256427
>>55262040
Your characters and ideas are really cool man. I'd love to do some write-ups between The Dragoons and The Sentinels

>>55264004
I feel like Je'She's job is basically just a lot of cleaning up lol

>>55267449
Linaresfest

>>55267449
Je'Sheaster

>>55268007
hahaha golden

Ok so are we happy for the Pirate warboss to be Called Grudug Toofmonger?

Also on that note some people mentioned that we should probably update the name of Thundacok to something more serious. I could be wrong but this is probably important, or not. Any suggestions?

>>55267449
Rahmanica

>>55268143
Thundacock is good enough. A cock is a male domestic fowl after all.

Also, created new docs for the Siege of Terra and the Battle of New Hope, so we can throw in all the respective info we gather.

>>55263721
>>55264004
I really don't understand what exactly Solomon is supposed to do here. There is nothing to negotiate about a.) Je'She sending troops to take care of a traitorous force and b.) the primarchs who volunteered to want to save Ashur who they only know to be captured.

>>55268959
Voting for the spelling of Fundakokk

We've taken another look at the timeline and moved Primarch discovery dates ahead a bit, because the decision was made to have Rahman use his Rogue Trader connections to try and find more of his lost Brothers.

This should have consequences for:
>Ashur
>Isekho
>Piter
>Lambach
>Elsu
>Solomon
>Pacha
>Valorn
>Zelbezis
>Marduk
>Kinnévail

This is because they won't be found by the Emperor directly but by the Corsairs. The Emperor will likely still be there, but it might be a detail you need keep in mind.

Emil's different. The rogue planet of Nonimat IV still gets found by the Emperor himself.

>>55263012
I'd say the Hounds as a whole would take a definite interest in the Grand Joust, but the Hunt is another matter. Some would still be for it, but I reckon others would see it as both unprofessional and insulting. After all, it is basically turning acts of war into a game (not to mention that the Hounds don't really work beside other legions much on principle. Some might apply the same idea to the Great Hunt). I reckon some Hounds would still take part though.
>>55270749
Maybe the Corsairs help out with the evacuation of Taiga? Would provide Valorn with a significant connection to Rahman and possibly lead to some animosity between the Hounds and the Corsairs after Valorn's disappearance (since the first legion to meet and work with Valorn ends up being the Corsairs instead of his own legion).

>>55272114
Well the Great Hunt is of course a contest of skill and teamwork, but it's also a measure of a legion.

JFA considers himself Warmaster, since the beginning (the reason the Triumverate infuriates him and turns him against Malcador), and the Great Hunt is a way to keep tabs on the strengths and weaknesses of the legions and any Primarchs that attend.

JFA is prim and a gentleman, but he isn't a fop or a dandy. Not as cold as Einchurt or Emil or as self assured as Mot, but not as personable as Kinnévail, Marduk, or Rahman, Jon-Fred is a consummate professional.

Only those who are wholly enraptured by sport and games would fail to see the Great Hunt as anything more than a game. Most others would suspect, or outright know the purpose of the Hunt, as it is no great secret

Bumples

>>55270749
It may move Lambach's discovery date forward but he'll still be found in the same way. By the imperial officials of Miletus. Perhaps Rahman's contacts get the information to the Emperor faster?

Idea for the End of Times: Extremy powerful C'Tan Shards/full-fledged C'Tan on the loose.

>>55270749
Wait what. Pacha's issues with Kincaid come precisely because of why his meeting with the Emperor came to be, and they are part of what shapes how he sees the Imperium.

>>55272230
Yup, I think this is good characterization for Frederic. He's both doing it for fun and sport, but he's also doing it so he can properly weigh his brothers.

>>55276003
Ah, well, it's not impossible for the Emperor to find Pacha anyway. Mind giving us a quick summary of how that goes?

It could also just mean that Rahman finds out where Pacha is, and he then calls for the Emperor.

>>55276003
How do you mean?

>>55276051
>>55276131
Well, basically the Emperor comes to Pacha's home in the night, appearing as a weary old traveller, who Pacha welcomes in and they share food and talk throughout the night. As dawn comes, the old man signals for Pacha to follow him outside and reveals himself as Big E, and then explains what is going on.

This is important because
1-Pacha sees the Emperor as a human first, and a weary one, his intuition telling him that the visitor is carrying quite the heavy burden on his shoulders. This naturally means that he doesn't see Emps as the perfect man.

2-Pacha believes this is the real Emperor rather than his more glorious appearance, and can't take himself to deny this first bonding experience, particularly on how down-to-earth it is, of his by considering a claim that the Emperor might be a god. The down-to-earth aspect is important because Pacha is leading his Legion in the crusade out of duty, and that he can't help but protect those weaker than he is, as at heart he eventually wants to return to his farm at Suyu. Until that point, Pacha was just a farmer who by coincidence of being quite powerful was thrown into a constant loop of fighting for both defense and conquest.

>>55276228
Oh, and before I forget. Pacha is intuitive and does get the feeling some things aren't all that right with some of his brothers (or Ashur's Legion), but doesn't act on it because he's thinks it might be like Linares's case and he doesn't want to screw up his relationship with his brothers.

Pacha meets Linares amongst his fellow Primarchs first, and the first moment he sees him, he gets a gut feeling to never trust him (Psyker postcognition giving him a vague feeling of what happened when Incas and Spaniards first met). This feeling is quickly proven absolutely wrong. This is important to why Pacha gets along best with Linares and to why he gets these wierd intuitions about some of his brothers but never acts on them.

>>55276228
>>55276381
Well I don't see how what we've written up would affect that.

The Emperor could very well just find Pacha by himself

>>55276228
>>55276381
>>55276633
Yeah, considering this, Pacha is likely an exception. Just because Rahman is looking, that doesn't mean the Emperor himself can't still find one.

>>55272230
Well, in that case I reckon Valorn is very much behind the Great Hunt as a competition (due primarily to its true purpose, though he does like to see his sons show up the warriors of other legions) and most of the Hounds follow his lead on that subject. There are still those who dislike The Great Hunt despite (or in some cases due to) Valorn's endorsement, but they are in a definite minority.

>>55276726
Fantastic

Thread Prompt: Does your Primarch respect Jon-Fred? If not, what would it take for them to at the very least respect the Warmaster?

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>>55279041
Does your Primarch respect Jon-Fred?
lol

Does Hashut have any daemon worlds in the Eye of Terror? What do his daemon worlds look like in the first place?

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>>55279041
pfft
No, not really. Einchurt feels Jon-Frederíc is too pompous and unwilling to accept the fact he is anything but a glorified killer to be worthy of respect, much less the level of respect required for the title of Warmaster. Einchurt sees only self-deprication in Aristide's theatrics and groveling when he laments his losses. There is very little Aristide could do to make Einchurt respect him.

Does your Primarch respect Jon?

Yes.

At first. He is the oldest primarch. But over time this respect is fading, when Kane comes to the conclusion that there is more show than amything else. Too much pomp like Einchurt said. But at first, as a new primarch. Yea of course he respects him.

>>55279041
Yes, Raj has a great respect for the Warmaster during the Crusade. He appreciates his professionalism and prowess. He would be able to work well with the XIVth, and be on good terms with his brother.

He does ultimately prefer Je'She as Warmaster, as he believes he's better at bringing the brotherhood together. Something Raj values greatly.

>>55280119
I imagine that his Daemon Worlds would be in the Maelstrom, if anything. They should be horrid parodies of Forge Worlds, covered in factories filled with horrid daemon engines, mechanical abominations and rivers of molten gold and steel.

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>>55279041
Maybe. His honorable warrior side of course, but then the pompous side is the opposite of Linares' rudeness, so don't expect a lot of respect in that regard. Im battle, yes. Outside, no.

Also, French

So, here's a couple of things we're gonna have to address/keep in mind:

>The Emperor doesn't get the chance to properly start on the Webway, and there's no Magnus to ruin everything, which means he doesn't have to focus on keeping it closed
>Marduk just dies. He doesn't get mind bulleted out of existence. That means the Chaos Gods might be able to bring him back?
>The Custodes failed at their job even harder than in the OU. What will we do with them?
>Malcador dies before he has a chance to really set up the Inquisition. Who picks that up?

>>55279041
This is what I had written for Fred before you'd taken him over, I can probably edit a bit based on what you add to the character.

>>55285363
>Jon-Frederic Aristide
Frederick is both an amazing warrior and general, but I find the first found brother to be intolerably arrogant. While he is polite enough to each of us brothers as equals and confidant in the capabilities of our men he treats the mortals as little better than sheep, he does not seem to grasp that we were created for their benefit and not the other way around. Without them we have no purpose, and a leader such as he should have the support of the common man.

>>55279041
Rahman both respects and like Fred for who and what he is, and his bearing and pomp fit well with Rahman's own tendencies.

However, while he was fine with him as warmaster, Rahman was always a rogue element, even among the Seps, and so likely was as much a headache as a useful tool.

>>55285339
>Webway
This could mean greater prevalence of 'holy' powers, which fits in with the greater religiosity.

>Marduk
I actually sort of like this idea, that he can (and does) come back, but perhaps forced to serve for his failure, or something? Or hell, maybe his soul gets taken and he's turned into a gigantic chaos spawn for failing. Primarch-grade Chaos Spawn.

>Custodes
I want to use them more, ironically, and think they could be a potential reason for things on Ullanor; they scourge the world and stand guard over it, perhaps. Also, I had the suggestion that they perhaps have a hand in the formation of certain Inquisitorial ordos, perhaps actually alongside the Sister of Silence, particularly if they are both loyal to the Emperor but disapprove of the religious fervor, and the Ordos are part of their way of maintaining a place, and also attempting to detect and destroy threats beforehand, due to their failure.

That also answers the Malcador question.

>>55285339
>Webway
That would relieve Empy from a big duty, and will allow him to use more energy somewhere else. If we add that the Beacon doesn't have to reach the farthest sides of the Galaxy, saving more power, we could have Empy doing shit like bringing people back to life like a Living Saint or something. Or maybe just allow him to slowly recover from his wounds, without coming back. Also, is Empy's psyche fragmented?

>Cuckstodes
They could create the Inquisition. Or go on a redeeming crusade or something. Failing that hard is reason to kys, too.

>>55287077
>>55285846
I'm really not comfortable with the Emperor coming back in any sort of way. A greater prevalence of holy powers could work, him recovering is a bad idea.

Maybe Marduk actually manages to hurt the Emperor, or deal significant damage to the Golden Throne (by crashing his ship into the palace)?

The Custodes playing a role in the Inquisition is a cool idea. It'd probably end up being quite different though. Especially if we also want to introduce a major fourth order, the Ordo Desertus, focused on the Separatists.

>>55288557
I did have that idea of the ship crashing creating a localized warp storm that the Emperor keeps in check, like, the eye of the storm centered over the Imperial Palace but Terra becoming like part daemon world in a narrow band, which could ALSO lead to the Custodes being the guardians of that, and perhaps creating the Ordo Malleus and a chamber militant of that to assist them, alongside the Sisters of Silence.

Like, one of the ideas I had for the giant Artegal-class was that it used void technology, and that got reversed when Marduk binds a Warp Leviathan into the ship and corrupted it. Perhaps thats the ship he slams into Terra, and the wreckage is still there, and technically the leviathan is still bound, and that's such a colossal thing that its creating the storm, and the Emperor is binding it, and the Astronomicon is blaring out to create that hole in the center, and so on.

>>55288847
That would be WAY too nasty imo. The warp storm, maybe. Terra becoming a DWorld...nah

>>55289918
I Don't think he means the entirety of Terra, just near where the Emperor is.

>>55292092
That would be fucked up, anyway. Having Daemons on Terra is...fucked up in general. If you can't keep safe the very core of the Imperium, there's no way it will remain united. I wouldn't follow that path.