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>>55313386
An idea I had for the squats that I was going to save for the actual anniversary, but I figured I may as well post now.

Destroyermen are the heavy infantry of any squat army. The concept of Destroyermen originally derived from the squat custom of having people who would risk their lives as the first ones to enter an unexplored cavern or mine shaft to see if it was safe to enter. Despite being clad in the best protective gear available, this work was extremely dangerous, as evidenced by the casualty rate, but at the same time it paid extremely well. However, being mostly socialists, a squat clan would often not waste all of the earnings on themselves. Instead, they would put into upgrading and improving the protective suit, making it more likely that the individual performing this job would keep coming back intact. This bizarre method of technological natural selection went on for millennia, until eventually most squat colonies had numerous sets of masterwork craft powered armor scattered among various clans. From there it was a simple leap to go from using this armor for checking for gas pockets and occasional hostile xenos to using them in open warfare against threats like Orks. Destroyermen are often the “tip of the spear” in squat armies, fighting in areas where casualties are likely to be high. Destroyerman armors have often been in squat families for generations, and the living clan members are fiercely protective of them, seeing them as emblems of their clan’s glory and heritage.

>>55313858 (cont.)
Like most squat technology, the concept of Destroyermen and Destroyermen suits was developed during the Age of Isolation, the period in which the Hubworld League was cut off from contact with the majority of humanity. Destroyerman armor is often referred to as the little brother of Space Marine terminator armor, and there is a grain of truth to that statement. Destroyerman armor and Terminator armor actually spring from a common source, the environmental hazard suits used for working in hard vacuum or mining in inhospitable conditions during the Dark Age of Technology. However, whereas Terminator armor was retrofitted for military usage and has been increasingly refined for combat over millennia, Destroyerman armor is much more sedate. This is in part because Destroyermen were never expected to see combat on the level that most Space Marine do, and in part because the ability to efficiently manufacture some of the higher end devices for the armors (like teleporters) was lost during the Age of Strife. In general, Destroyerman armor is more geared towards making sure the wearer and the armor survives rather than making a more efficient killing machine like Terminator armor. There is also the issue of the armor wearer. Although the armor may be high quality, the person inside the armor is still only human, lacking the genetic modifications typical of Space Marines or Sisters of Battle (particularly the Black Carapace of the former) and limited what a Destroyerman is capable of.

>>55313386
Wait, it's been a year? Fuck.

>>55313986
First post was on September 20, 2016. So it's been 355 days if we want to be pedantic.

How extensive is Gazzy's control over the orks?

What percentage of the species does he command?

Jubblowski is an eldar religions icon. To what extent is she venerated?

>>55314908
The Orks that are hard-core Chaos worshippers or hard-core Gork and Mork purists are a minority. The majority of the Ork race only cares about fightin' and lootin'. They'd side with Ghazzy and krump the Chaos Boyz if Ghazzy could convince them with enough promises of loot and fightin' (but if they put up a good fight would that make the Chaos Boyz proppa orky?), whereas the Chaos Orks could get the majority of the Orks to do what they want if they could convince them there'd be good fighting (even if it was to the detriment of the orks as a whole and over the objections of the purists, like fighting an enemy with large amounts of artillery and flamers).

Both sides would like the Orks to follow their ideology but...you know...Orks. Harder to organize than cats.

>>55315317
How would they react to Be'lakor? they were designed to fight for the Old Ones. Admittedly this did not work but would they feel any pull at all
to follow him?

>>55313986
/tg/ sure chooses the strangest things to latch onto and form a complete setting around.

>>55316658
Not that strange 40k is a cornerstone of /tg/, noble defiance against impossible odds is the very stuff of legends and everyone loves Lord of the Rings.

This is last alliance of men and elves in 40k.

It's only surprising it didn't happen years ago.

>>55316878
Hm. Not a bad idea for a parallel to work from. If I wasn't waist deep in shit to do, I'd take a look at that theme for inspiration.

though orks need more love to. agh. too much to do.

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>>55315059
She is a minor religious icon. The big temples would never invite her to be the focus of a big ceremony, because human and a heathen, but they would allow her to take part in the periphery of a major festival ceremony.

For lesser festivals, or at least the festivals of lesser settlements, her presence would be considered more important as nowhere exodite villages and literally-who enclaves don't get visited by important people and probably don't have their own priestess.

The ceremonies would probably not be anything inherently lewd. Although sex is part of Isha's domain it is merely one aspect of it. She is also the patron deity of surgeons and farmers among others.

She would also only be accepted on worlds that have embraced the alliance between humans and eldar, there are many human supremacists and eldar supremacists who would quite happily kill her for being corrupted by the xenos / stealing the blessings of the All-Mother.

>>55316079
Probably not that much influence. Be'Lakor is an Old One throwback. He became a deamon-prince and stayed that way, the rest of the Old Ones became god-like in a different manner before they created the Krork, Be'Lakor could be considered a different species to what the Old Ones became. The orks would not recognize him easily and his pull on them would be weak or non-existent.

It would help if he was dealing with Chaos Orks as they are also saturated in Chaos juice so they would recognize something akin to themselves in him and he is ded 'ard an' stompy so he might be considered worth following just for that.

Maybe there would be some ancient orks in the court of Be'lakor, gaunt and withered and steeped in kunnin and ancient guile. They would be as bitter and twisted as he himself, the runts and the grots that sold their souls to get even against orkier orks and little by little further damned. They would have moved from bottom of the ork social heap to bottom of the Chaos social heap outcast to the Formless Wastes

>>55313866
Where should this get added in the 1d4chan?

>>55317877
Deep sea nightmare fish ork deamons.

>Jesus_Christ_how_horrifying.holo

>>55317877
Where is pic from?

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I have added the Baalite Wheel Faith to the 1d4chan under religion.

Amidoinirite? Also is anyone actually going to do Preatoria?

>>55321738
I think we have a bit on Praetoria in a previous thread. Not as much as the Mordians, and Praetoria still needs quite a bit of work, but it's a good jumping off point. I think it's thread XXVI or something.

>>55318728
Probably Forces of the Imperium. That's where we have all the other unique military units of the Survivor Civilizations, like Interex sagittars and the forces of other minor powers.

It's rather funny that despite all this variation in heavy infantry and super-soldier design across the Imperium, the classic Space Marine won out over the cyborg centaurs (sagittars), souped-up mining suits (Destroyermen), super soldiers spliced with animal DNA (Canis Helix soldiers), and Skitarii simply by being more practical (particularly being easier to implement on a galaxy-wide scale) and having fewer exploitable weaknesses. In other words, and to excuse the Tv Trope-ese, in terms of heavy infantry Space Marines were the Boring but Practical Jack-of-All-Stats. Just like on the tabletop.

Of course, this also means that the two-hearted, fused-ribcage, acid-spitting, "can survive being exposed to hard vacuum" superhumans that are implanted with the bootleg cloned organs of a demigod and clad in top-quality power armor that interfaces with their body are considered the "mundane and low-key" option. As is expected of 40k.

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>>55316079
That reminds me of something I was going to bring up.

The creation of the Orks should have been a war crime. Even by the moral standards of the Old Ones, it was clear that someone crossed a line. The Old Ones may have uplifted the Eldar and the Hrud, but at least they got to keep some semblance of who they were. All the Old Ones basically did was give them bigger guns. The Orks were completely changed from the ground up. In canon there are two possible stories as to the origin of the Orks. One is that the orks were created through extensive genetic engineering of some poor race. Snotlings are described as the original ork. That means the Orks basically went from being smurfs to Hulks in a blink of an eye.

Imagine if humans were in the same position as snotlings, and you went to sleep in a pre-Old One world and wake up post-Old Ones. You're essentially stepping into Attack on Titan. Beings like you are nearly extinct, whereas the dominant representative of your species is nearly quintuple your height and looks like it fell off the tree of life and hit every atavistic branch on the way down. What passes for "human" looks like a gorilla crossed with an ogryn, with canine fangs as thick as your forearm. Around them are creatures the size of polar bears, but lanky and cruel and built like Jurassic Park-style Velociraptors. All of them have seemingly regressed in intellect from the standard you remember, being only concerned with survival. Oh, and the surviving members of your race have regressed even further in intelligence, Planet of the Apes style.

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>>55324332
To make matters worse, these things primarily feed on creatures that look like demented combinations of human fetuses and infants as designed by Hieronymous Bosch for the SCP Foundation. The Old Ones have taken your species and turned it into a viral ecosystem, good for nothing more than spreading. Every living thing you see around you is derived from humans in some way. Dogscape with human flesh.

That's Option A. Option B is that the Orks were custom-designed from the ground up by the Old Ones. The Old Ones, whose self-imposed purpose was experimenting with, tweaking, and spreading life, custom-built a race that was only designed for killing in the most efficient manner possible in complete defiance of their mission statement.

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>>55324368
It was suggested before that the Eldar survived the Enslaver plague and the end of the War in Heaven by hiding in the Webway. The Orks may have survived in the same way that many plants are thought to have survived mass extinctions: the adults were killed to a grot but the species regenerated from spores left in the ground. Indeed, this may have been what turned the Orks into the Krork. The fact that all of the Orks’ technological knowledge was genetically encoded into them by the Old Ones belies a critical weakness. If the entire adult population gets killed, the technological information survives (read: whatever the Old Ones thought was key for a rampaging super soldier), but any cultural information, like, say “allies don’t WAAAGH! as hard as we do, treat them like panzees” gets lost.

Take into account it takes millennia for Orks to regain Brain Boy levels of intelligence and you have a recipe for disaster. Much like how in most science fiction humans learn to deal with aliens that have radically different biologies from our own, the Krork may have understood that other species didn’t work like Krork and had bizarre concepts like “non-combatant” or “not wanting to fight all the time” while remaining just as Orky as always in their own politics, especially given that the Eldar looked favorably upon them (and the Old Ones wouldn’t tolerate team-killing). The Eldar are overjoyed to find another old ally that had survived the War in Heaven, only to find their allies are now…different. And so began the occasional Eldar-Ork Brain Boy wars that occasionally rocked the galaxy according to the Beast Arises series.

>>55324332 (cont.)
>>55324368 (cont.)
>>55324391 (cont.)
On a related note, it’s rather interesting that the Necron Star Empire decided to wake up within a couple of thousand years of the Fall of the Eldar. From a reader’s perspective this is easily explained as “because it’s dramatic”, but consider the following. After the War in Heaven, the Necrons were said to be most concerned about the Eldar and the other Old One soldier races. Compared to the Necrons they were primitives, yes, but they were numerous enough and had enough Old One-provided technology that they could do some serious damage. In current vanilla canon the Necrons went into hibernation to wait out the Eldar and others. It doesn’t matter that the Eldar had sixty-five million years of power, all they had to do is wait. It doesn’t matter how lucky you are, live long enough and eventually you’ll roll a hundred crit-fails in a row.

Orikan was said to be a good enough diviner that he was able to predict the Fall of the Eldar as far back as the War in Heaven. Orikan or diviner(s) of comparable skill could have gone to Szarekh and told them their model of the future. Sixty-five or so million years from now, the Eldar will shoot themselves in the foot. The Eldar will be reduced to isolated enclaves, and the disaster will cause any other races that have risen to power on the interim to be knocked on their ass so hard they’ll be forced to cobble technology out of their garbage if they survive. The Hrud will be confined to a single planet, the Jokaero are nobodies, and the Orks are so disorganized they will be nothing compared to the Krork. They could have seen the canon 40k timeline for all we know. All the Star Empire has to do is sit out the next sixty-five million years and they can swoop in while the galaxy’s rebuilding and take it for themselves.

>>55324406
So the Necrons do this. They wake up ten thousand years too late, but ten thousand years are chump change on that scale. Of course, divination isn’t perfect, and sixty-five million years is a lot of time for contingency. Chaos did not burn itself out as expected. The galaxy was wrecked during the Age of Strife, but it’s rebuilt a lot more than expected thanks to the Necron’s faulty alarm clocks. And what’s this tyranid thing everyone’s ranting about?

>>55316878
>>55317568
The first few threads were originally billed as Lord of the Rings meets 40k. It's basically that, but instead of a gradual fading of the world and the magic going away over generations, everything is coming back and is building up in a fever pitch to this massive Ragnarok-esque final war that is going to make or break the galaxy for the forseeable future. The good news is unlike Ragnarok no one is necessarily fated to die (though predicted casualties are huge, anyone could die, and defeat is a very, very real possibility) but at the same time there are so many potential futures that nothing is set in stone.

>>55324391
Now is the question of what the Orks were like when they were Krork and what they were like when they were the snotlings that the Old Ones first encountered.

It would be nice to think that the Old Ones had some plan to turn them back after the war, that they weren't petty and cruel like the gods of antiquity. Or as one anon in a very previous thread suggested "Space Lizard Wizards with no sense of right and wrong".

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Founded in the days of the Rebuilding as the Imperium attempted to recover from the horrors of The Beast the world of Praetoria lies in the Segmentum Tempestus just over the rimward border of the Hubworld League and was, at that time, the last stop before the vast desolation of depopulated worlds that stretched out until distant Inwit.

At the time Praetoria was home to a few prospectors, a single orbiting station of dubious functionality, a few hydroponics farms and more sand than any planet should rightfully have. It was a nowhere place on the periphery of anything of importance with nothing to truly boast about. Save for it’s location that was going to become quite important to the Imperium in it’s efforts to rebuild and secure Segmentum Tempestus. A planet, even one as borderline habitable as Praetoria, could be ideal for passing traffic in this endeavour.

The initiative as seized by the old trade and transport families of Gredbritton who had risen to prominence on Old Earth in the Unification as the Warlord had given them all of the contracts for rebuilding the trade routs across Old Earth. Using this initial wealth they had invested in Rogue Trader writs and moved out into the Great Crusade behind the expeditionary forces. Being just a few extended families and associates they were never capable of operating on the same level of Horus and his Void Born, who were seemingly everywhere, but they never really dreamed of doing so in those halcyon days. They were seemingly just happy to prosper and funnel additional wealth back to the old country to share amongst their people.

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>>55325319
The initial families that laid claim to Praetoria, named so by them as it originally had no official name beyond a navis nobilite cartographical code, were swift in building their world into something usable by the Imperium and therefore profitable. Semi-derelict ships, not in short supply at that time to be sure, were bought up by the score and commissioned ship-wrights and tech-adepts lashed them together into ugly but serviceable orbital installations. The Imperium would need places to moor it’s fleets.

The sand was sifted and fused into glass as ice was obtained from comets disassembled mid flight and vast swathes of the warm equatorial regions started to glitter in the dust like spilled diamonds across a grubby tablecloth. Vast hydroponic farms to feed the Imperium’s armies and fleets.

Flat packed refineries and mining stations were loaned to the original prospector families that had called the system home under honest deals that they take from the asteroids and moons of the system all that they wished but would deal exclusively with the old families. The fleets would need a place and parts to repair their weary vessels.

By the time the fleets of the reconquest arrived Praetoria was waiting for it with open arms and friendly smiles with all the basic amenities and supplies that a fleet could need. To the voidsmen of the fleet it was the equivalent of expecting to stop at a run down highway rest stop only to step into a fine hotel with a nice restaurant, well stocked bar, friendly staff and with very reasonable prices. The hand written letter of appreciation penned by The Steward’s own hand and stamped with his own signet ring is preserved to this day in a stasis field in the governor’s palace.

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>>55325345
As the resettlement of what was known at the time as Tempestus Wilderness Space continued traffic continued to travel through Praetoria and the world only grew in wealth. In the years that followed as the Wilderness Space was tamed and civilized people rebuilt their ruins into mirrors of old glory trade followed. Initially it was nothing but things from the Hubworld League sold on promise of payment from the Imperium itself or promise of payment in some prosperous future. In time produce of the tamed and civilized Tempestus began to flow into the Hubworlds and Praetoria became a gateway going both ways.

The old generation of founders that knew anything of Old Earth or even remembered the name Gredbritton were gone soon enough as mortals do and Praetoria began to become a world of it’s own in mind and soul. More importantly it became a world of it’s own in the eyes of the Administratum and with this declaration of success came the tithe and that was the origin of the first iteration of the Praetoria Guard.

And that was the inglorious founding of that prosperous world.

>It's approaching midnight. I have to be awake for 6:00 at the latest. I will do more tomorrow time permitting regarding the evolution of Praetoria from service station to moderately big pleyer unless there are objections.

>>55325103
The Eldar like to claim the Old Ones promised the galaxy to them, overlooking the fact that the Old Ones probably weren't counting on dying during the War in Heaven.

So either the Eldar are creatively reinterpreting history as manifest destiny (which isn't unheard of), the Old Ones willed the galaxy to all their uplifts if they died, or the Old Ones are serious dicks who told some nice motivational lies.

There was probably a range of moral positions among the Old Ones. Be'lakor was probably always a prick though.

Does anyone have any preference in what needs to be in the Praetoria fluffing?

>>55324443
It could also have been typical me from arrogance. No matter how long you give them n non necro empire is going to arise without being uplifted.

>>55328236
It might just be me, but beyond the general ideas suggested in the old thread (I liked the whole knights and dragons rivalry angle with the Praetorian Dark Angel chapter being the knights and the Mordian Salamanders being the dragons, plus the whole slobs versus snobs angle) I'd say it's pretty open.

>>55331014
Any suggestions on how the rivalry between the two should come about?

>>55330151
Wow that got mangled. I am the dirtiest of phone posting peasants.

>>55325387
Time passed and the population of Praetoria grew, the tithe contribution increased and the ground settlements turned from towns to cities and eventually started to grow into the hives known today. The original founding families and their cadet branches grew distant from each other consolidating their power and assets each in their own fortified cities and orbitals of which they ruled with almost absolute power. By decree of the Administratum the planet, if it wanted to keep it's contracts with the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Merchant Navy, was obligated to elect a representative for the planet if not an actual ruler as the Imperium had not intention of wasting it's time dealing with myriad squabbling lesser nobility. Typically this seat, arrived at by election by each of the major families, went to a lesser house with little to no power of their own and so could only act as intermediaries and not as actual dictators.

The biggest and most notable exception to this rule being Rodri of house Haagreevz. What made him exceptional was that the majority of his ancestry, bar the strictly patrilineal line was distinctly common in origin and therefore assumed to be poor. This was proven to be incorrect, at least to some extent, as by means unknown though assumed t but unproven to be illegal, he had assumed a substantial fortune. This was a fact that he kept quiet from as many as possible for as long as possible, carefully acquiring favours and potential deals.

He knew, at least for him and his kin, that there was limited scope for expansion on Praetoria. The noble families were taking up all the room at the top and were utterly uninterested in changing anything at the risk of loosing so much for uncertain returns. This to Rodri simply would not do.

>>55332147
Rodri was a risk taker, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he had were he not, and he expended all of his family's wealth in buying out the shares in many promising looking but relatively small companies under several hundred different names. It was a gamble that paid off to the relief of his kin and wealth flowed into house Haagreevz like a fine rosé wine to be put aside for later sale.

When Rodri stood before the parliament on the first day 003M33 he did not do so as a glorified messenger boy feigning timidity and meekness, his spine was straight, his gaze was hard and his head held high. He set forth his proposal for investment in a Merchant Navy and "Protection" Fleet of Praetoria's very own to be commissioned of the Mechanicus and constructed in the worlds own orbital dockyards, for additional funds to be put aside for the armies, for a greater incentive and drive towards improving the structure of the hives and orbitals for the common plebs to whom he himself was not as distant from. The proposal was met with thunderous laughter and derision of the highest order. Who was this upstart little peasant to come before such as they with a demand they demanded, who was he to dictate to his betters?

Through all the uproar Rodri stood unflinching. His confident good cheer turned to cold stone sternness. Who was he? He was the man who was fully capable of bringing every single one of them low or at least making their ever so comfortable lives so very difficulty. He owned the ground that their opulent mansions were stood on. He owned the waste collection businesses that they used. He controlled the water to their share of the hydroponics and had the controlling shares in most of the electricity companies. All the little grimy things that made civilization work but deemed beyond the notice of the high and mighty. He gave them one whole day to mull it over as he was feeling so very generous.

>>55332226
And mull it over they did, although blind panic might have been a better word for it. It was true, he held all the cards as the false names of shareholders and investers peeled away to read Haagreevz to the legal limit of what he could own and Haagreevz in the names of his brothers and cousins of barely above peasant status.

A few did try to challenge him suspecting, not unreasonably, that he did and could not have taken all of this so quickly. It must have been acquired on loan, a dragon made of paper and twigs. True though it had much of it was loaned in Thrones form anonymous off-world investors who would have only benefited with increased ships in the trade lanes and border outposts who needed greater ties to the wider Imperium for protection if nothing else.

The foolish little lords that challenged Lord Haagreevz, and it by God did he make sure they addressed him properly now, were indeed brought low and spent many centuries recovering their losses those that even could; mega-corps, mechanicus brotherhoods and even other noble houses found that they had little choice but to side with house Haagreevz.

For all that he was cut throat to an unprecedented degree in that time on Praetoria and ruthless almost to a fault Rodri was fiercely loyal to his supporters and when the fleets set sail his supporters found that they had been given good shares in the spoils.

What else should happen to praetorian between early M33 and the arrival of the Sisters of the Old Tree in mid M41?

>>55323306
How long can a Space Marines survive in hard vacuum? A human can survive a few minutes or so I think but looses consciousness after a bout the first minute. Past one and a half minutes there is a sharply increasing risk of brain damage.

Or so I have read.

How long should a super soldier manage?

>>55333648
I think there is some limit mentioned in canon, but it might be one of those things we want to dial back in this timeline. Guilliman IIRC in vanilla fought in space for hours during the Battle of Calth. In most cases I assume they just hibernate.

>>55334552
Their body would presumably put them in suspended animation in the case of no air once they loose consciousness, probably they can activate this ability earlier on to conserve their supplies and hold out for longer.

Not much help to the Space Wolves and Templars and such who don't have a Sus-an Membrane.

A Space Marine could maybe remain active for 15 minutes (does this seem right?) and comatose for a few hours. They can remain comatose for a few extra hours if they go into a coma the moment they get shoved out the airlock and don't waste their oxygen struggling.

Space wolves are more human. They might get 5 or so minutes before they loose consciousness. A few minutes after that the brain damages starts to happen.

Iron Hands are so machined up that they can walk around potentially indefinitely in hard vacuum and barely notice.

>>55335403
I'm guessing that this is if they aren't in their power armour. Space Marine Power armour is the best space suits in the imperium.

>>55332768
A Queen Victoria analog that attempts to expand Praetoria in a colonial empire? Even with a limited fleet (Nothing compared to the Imperial fleet, but something that actually managed to get a cruiser).

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>>55335403
I’ve always wondered how long cyborgs like the Ad-Mech could even survive in hard vacuum without going into hibernation. You’d think a long time but then you start to realize there are some complications that might make the metal men just as dependent on a spaceship or space station as the fleshies.

The primary issue is going to be that cells, particularly active cells (like brains), are going to need to take in nutrients and oxygen to keep them running. It doesn’t matter how cybered-up they are, the AdMech by definition have some amount of human tissue in them, and that has to be kept alive. The easiest way to get them that would be to recycle CO2 and waste into glucose and oxygen, but that would mean essentially performing photosynthesis, which is a tricky and low-yield process on Earth. Electrolysis of water could be used to supplement oxygen if levels get low, it’s what spacecraft do. The only issue is even a brain-in-a-jar is going to be burning a lot of calories by hard vacuum standards.

Then there’s the issue of heat. A lot of machinery, even the energy efficient stuff, tends to generate heat as a byproduct. In atmosphere you just vent the heat into the environment. In space there’s nowhere for heat to go. It’s been said that if you get spaced you wouldn’t feel cold, you’d feel hot. In 40k humans have generally solved the problem of what to do with excess energy by dumping it into the Warp (e.g., Void Shields) but it would be a bad idea to have every tech-priest carry their own channel to the Immaterium on them. Maybe the AdMech use some kind of Dark Age superconductor in their bodies. I have no clue how deep-space equipment like Curiosity or the Voyager probes do it, but it should be possible to some degree given they can send/receive information.

Though we should still definitely keep the AdMech’s ability to breathe in space, for the reasons that they can do it in canon if nothing else.

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>>55339294
Brain is suspended in cerebral fluid contained in a hyper-diamond skull box. Skull box is padded with shock absorbing gel and sponge.

The organic components that remain are support for the brain component and nothing more. These support components are kept in an armored box usually called the rib-box or gut-box or some variation.

Although many of the components of the rib-box are organic in construction none of them are natural. The lung for example is a thick membrane tailored to absorb and process per-filtered tri-mix gas. The heart is not organic at all and is a crew like device that siphons the blood around in a nice even manner. None of the organs look much like anything that would sustain a full human, but then they don't have to. They support only a brain and each other.

The brain itself is not without alterations. Devoid of any sort of human body it is hardwired into the auto-senses of the machine body and can feel and detect as it does. Given that the machine can detect far more than mere baseline human sensory organs additional processors are slaved to the organic brain to sort through and interpret the input into something comprehensible. Further alterations done to the brain usually involving neural shunts to cut off various sensations that could be considered distracting or uncomfortable.

The selection from the Skitarii to be of the elite in the Iron Hands and associated chapters is as rigorous if not more so than that of and of the types of Space Marine but where the Astartes look for physical prowess and compatibility the Skitarii look for mental adaptability. It is a very rare mind that can not only remain sane but acclimatize and find some normality when stripped out of a body and installed in a machine. On the positive side the Iron Hands, being largely unconcerned with the flesh, can recruit from both men and women which doubles their recruitment base.

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>>55338216
It could be that she intended to push the Praetorian empire out into the old Wilderness Space and claim those new worlds as her domain. On the one hand Praetoria was instrumental in the making of them, on the other they are the Imperium's.

Much as the British Empire dreamed itself a new Rome Praetoria dreams itself a new Ultramar.

At the time it fails because the Imperium really does not like people fucking with it's stuff or bullying it's people. Does manage to place orbitals at least part owned by the Praetorian crown half private investment around several score worlds so it wasn't a total flop.

As of 999M41 the plans to make the Praetorian Commonwealth are being revisited as like many taking what Fenris is doing as an example.

I will expand on it tomorrow.

Any suggestions for a name for this monarch that sets all this in motion?

WHAT IF GORK AND MORK ARE ACTUALLY JOKAERO

>>55342391
This would be a really good way to showcase the whole "Imperium has no sense of proportional retribution and will confiscate your planet if you start shit" aspect to Imperial life that has been mentioned.

>>55346733
I'll be honest, I hadn't even thought of that but it is good.

>>55327425
I'm leaning to the Old Ones always having been dicks by this point, or at least were big enough of dicks for long enough that it eclipsed their previous less dick behaviour. But so were the Necrontyr if taken as a whole.

>>55344992
There is something odd going on with the Jokaero but that is definitely not it.

>>55348866
It was page 10, I couldn't think of anything else to bump the thread with.

>>55332296
In time the house of Haagreevz fell from favour as such things do and stepped down from the post of Herald of the Parliament gracefully. The position had become in the generations after Rodri no longer a joke but kingship in all but name. The first of the next dynasty to assume the responsibility, an otherwise unremarkable man known as Gwenaël of house Lozach, turned the position into one of legal royalty and demanded a coronation be held. It was suspected that the other lords went along with it as the Lozachs were not the most imposing house and Gwenaël was very old. Indeed his son could not get enough support to take the throne and the crown passed to another family.

In the fullness of time the crown rested on the brow of Eadið Griuugel in theyear 775M34. It was not the first time a Griuugel had held that authority and it was not the first time Praetoria had been ruled by a queen. It was however the first time it had been ruled by a queen under her own undeniable authority. Previous queens, in that most definitely male dominant society, had ruled under the authority of rich and powerful husbands and fathers. Eadið Griuugel on the other hand was the unquestionable head of the rambling Griuugel house and ruled it completely.

Her word was law and although none could say that she was unfair none could either say she had much kindness to spare. What she did have was ambition. In her youth she had travelled far in the Imperium, as many aristocrats did, but where as they had travelled to sneer at the primitives and the lesser people beyond the border and reinforce their notions of Praetorian superiority she had gone to learn. She had travelled to the towering spires and deep lightless caverns of Old Earth, she had walked the streets of Magna Macragge Civitas in distant Ultramar and even spent a year among the rude and rustic people of harsh Fenris. And she had learned, oh yes she had learned and as her wisdom grew it was matched only by her ambition.

>>55349334
Her ambition was the creation of another Ultramar with the Praetoria as it's Macragge. The worlds of the segmentum tempestus would be their subjects and vassal states. Using the already extensive influence of her world over these younger worlds the influence of Praetoria grew to a strangle hold. In the first thirty years of her reign over a hundred worlds were more influenced via media tampering, blackmailing of leaders and advisors and the introduction of armed private soldiers of the nobility to "protect their substantial investments".

Daring as she was Queen Eadið would not go so far as to pursue a course of action that could tamper even slightly with the tithe, she knew at that time that the Administratum and the Arbiters were starting to take note. Although what was happening was merely internal matters and business matters between worlds and therefore not crossing Imperial Law it was becoming in danger of rocking the boat. The Arbiters tended to get twitchy when their boat was rocked.

Things carried on longer than they should as The Harrowing rocked the Galactic West and the Imperium could ill afford to provoke an internal conflict. This carried on until 995M34 and two years after the conclusion of that war when Queen Eadið over stepped her bounds in the eyes of the Imperium when she demanded the release of courier ships owed as part of an unpaid debt

Unfortunately for her those ships were property of the Throne. This event gave the Administratum all the excuse that they needed to send in the Dark Clerks and begin a Grand Accounting of Praetoria and her assets and influences. It was not a good time to be the head of a noble family in the following days. Many had abused their power over the lesser world mistaking lesser worlds for lesser people and people of less worth. To the Imperium there were no lesser citizens and when all those cruel indulgences and petty tyrannies were brought to the light the punishments were fair, but they were not kind

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>>55350593
It was decided that for the transgressions, which on some of the more impoverished worlds had been considerable, perpetrated by the crown and the nobility that Praetoria could no longer be trusted to govern itself responsibly. But for all her mistakes and sins Queen Eadið had been extremely popular with both the commoners and the gentry. As a compromise it was decided that she would be permitted to remain as Queen but would have power only in an advisory capacity and that there would be no king or queen after her. She could haveresisted, the Imperium was still recovering from The Harrowing and her world had never been stronger, she could have fought back but to do so would mean to meet all of the civilized galaxy in arms and although her people could have held out for a long time they would not have had any hope of victory. Resistance was not worth the price.

Thus began Praetoria under the unimaginative but reliable rule of the Administratum. True to their word Queen Eadið was the last to wear that crown for more than two thousand years. Praetoria surrendered it's hold on the vassal worlds without a fight and without demanding recompense and the stirrings of inevitable war and the rumblings of civil dissatisfaction and unrest died away.

In a show of generosity the Imperium did allow the Praetorian nobility to keep their orbital stations on former vassal worlds. They had, they admitted, been constructed legally and posed no real risk to the planets they orbited. This mollified the lords of the Parliament somewhat.

It was not an unconsidered gift. So long as those stations remained profitable they would be defended and by extension so would the worlds that had been wronged and so long as the nobility continued to have those stations and value them the Imperium would always have something that they could take off them should they get any ideas.

>should I continue with this or am I doing it wrong?

Bump

Does anyone else want else added to the story of Praetoria and how it got from there to here?

>>55354909
It mentions that the royalty of Praetoria didn't hold power for two thousand years. That would put the return of the monarchy at M36. Something to do with the apostasy?

That said, if the monarchy did return it would be an interesting example of just how mind-bendingly long the Imperium has lasted. Two thousand years and Praetoria's little petty empire building is ancient history.

>>55355758
Also, the names are a nice touch. Showcases how although the high concept for Praetoria is British Africa IN SPESS the cultural comparison isn't 1:1.

>>55355758
I'm imagining that in the Civil War the High Administrators were totally loyal to Vandire. Parliament also loyal but not unquestionably so and not blindly so. They were getting worried and then horrified by Emperor Vandire and the things he was doing.

Thor turns up and stands before the Parliament and shows them what atrocities have been done. Brief civil war on Praetoria between Administration and Parliament. Lords of the Old Houses declare support for Thor.

After Oscar takes the Golden Throne he takes note of who stood by and who stood up and determines that Praetoria can rule itself. The Crown of Praetoria is taken off of its stand and dusted off and the lords elect one of their own to wear it.

>>55355786
The names are a mash up of Brythonic and Saxon.

Rodri is first king of Praetoria. Rhodri the Great was the first king of Wales for example.

By 999M41 what should the surface of Praetoria look like?

Wow there is a lot to read. Gonna need to catch up on the stuff in this thread.

>>55358938
This is what was mention of modern Praetoria in a previous thread, mostly in comparison to Mordia.

>Praetoria discovered in the Great Crusade by the Salamanders.
>Mordia by the Dark Angels with whom they maintained close ties.

>Praetoria is known for it's stiff upper lip, honourable combat, devil may care attitude towards long odds and fierce determination.
>Mordia is known for taking no prisoners, doing what is needed no matter how distasteful, careful measuring of the odds and pragmatism.

>Praetoria is an industrial and commercial prosperous hub world of rich trader families who genuinely do care about the well being of the people in their jurisdiction and share the wealth generously. Their world is also home to the Dragon Lords who traditionally recruit from the first sons of every member of the aristocracy, it is considered the greatest honour.
>Mordia is a tidally locked shit hole that keeps ending up as Black Crusade sideshow. What little wealth the planet and it's people have is spent in preparing for the next war. They have the Knights of the Crimson Order call their world home and who supplement their PDF and IG regiments. Crimson Knights run the tragically large orphanages of Mordia, it makes a good recruitment ground.

>Praetorians generally join the Imperial Army for notions of honour and duty. They earn much prestige for their families and come back with many tall tales to tell. They get invited to all the parties and become a good marriage prospect.
>Mordians generally join for duty and glory. They earn more ration stamps for their families and come back with their rifles. They increase a settlements odds of survival next Chaos Skirmish.

There was another post, but it was mostly about the Space Marine chapters with a mention that Prometheanism is pretty popular on Praetoria because of Vulkan's influences.

>>55363185
That's going to need some revision

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>>55340873
It should not be that the Iron Hands "brain in a jar" type super Skitarii is the intended aim.

Skitarii are given such augmentations as it is deemed prudent to give them for their job. The more extreme the situations that they habitually get thrown in the more upgraded they get to cope.

The better they are at their job the more they get upgraded as an investment to protect that talent.

If they get injured and need something replaced then they get machine parts because why would you replace a substandard part with another substandard part if something useful is available?

The more badass a Skitarii is the more metal they are. The more shit they have endured the more metal they are. The very elite of the Mecanicus fighting forces in this regard are the Thallax who are the brain in a jar super warriors. More machine than man they are the legal limit of what a soldier can be before going over to full A.I.

It is from these that the Iron Hands draw numbers.

From the very elite of the elite they take the cream of the crop. They give them any hardware improvements that they don't already have, introduce them to similar demi-god level warriors and give them the most dangerous missions.

Each of the Mechanicus chapters would vary greatly in appearance. SOme look like pic related. Some look like sleeker Centurions with jet packs. it all depends on what their home forgeworld specializes in making.

Due to them only recruiting the vey apex of the Mechanicus soldiery from soldiers already centuries old their method of recruitment relies heavily on there being a constant trickle of such skilled people as they would rather the extinction of their order than lower their standards.

Were it not for the obscene populations of the forgeworlds they would die out. Also the support of the forgeworlds. Iron Hands are extremely expensive to build over the course of their careers and to maintain and keep in good repair are not the cheapest of things.

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>>55324368
>>55324332
I'm imaging the original orks looking something like this.

Usually capping out at a little over 2' tall with occasional freaks making it to 3'. Had a life span of 10 - 12 years baring illness or injury but usually averaging at 8 - 10 due to their environment.

Typically river dwelling. In their natural environment they would hunt fish in the morning and evening, graze on vegetation in the day and sleep at night. Omnivorous and to some degree toxin resistant.

They were not the cleverest of creatures but were smart enough to build mud and wood houses. Could make fire and used it for cooking and the deterrence of predators of which they had many. They had not discovered metal by the time the Old Ones found them.

They were capable of violence against each other in a half hearted tribal brawl sort of way. Usually they fought to win rather than kill.

They reproduced sometimes by spores but it was more reliable to chop off a finger or toe or ear and plant it in the soft mud near the river. They had no in-built knowledge, that was all the Old Ones. None of them had developed a written language by the time of their "uplifting" and even spoken language was crude and half made of gestures.

Their original religions tended to be the following of deamons before the warp went to shit and there were still many good spirits of the warp around. This was as high as they ever got pre-uplift with little pocket kingdoms built on the advice of the spirits. After they all mysteriously disappeared (War in Heaven twisted or killed them one way or another) they devolved back to where they started.

Old Ones were the first contact by aliens that they had and so nobody but the gods remember them as they used to be

After the first batch of Krork were created it was the end for the proto-orks. The moment the first new spore touched the mud it was just a matter of time, you can't coexist with orks. Some isolated pockets held on for a few centuries but their day was done

>>55313386
Can Khine possess people?

Also what should his relationship be with the fallen Phoenix Lord?

>>55324568
In previous thread someone tried to make a flow chart of the up coming Judgment Day / Ragnarok. Did anything come of it?

>>55366436
They might now have seen much of a difference between farming and reproduction, given they reproduced by and constantly shed spores.

I think snotlings are canonically about 1 to 1.5 feet tall though.

>>55369025
The implication seems to be that they weren't as prolific given that they need to cut pieces off to intentionally cultivate. Pure spore children would be rare although it might have been the only way to get new strains. Spore lands on other proto-ork, exchanges genes, lands in the mud and grows. Prevents genetic monoculture.

It would, combined with the proto-squigs that ate them, be why they never swamped their world.

>>55370143
Makes sense, although the fact that they could reproduce asexually and do so faster upon dying is what probably drew them to the Old Ones' attention in the first place. What was at first a notable feature of a literally who species turned into a nightmare when applied to a genetically engineered super-soldier.

Some animals/plants actually do something similar to this, they will hatch from their eggs early or shoot off all their eggs/sperm at once if they think they're about to die. In the case of eggs (mostly know of this in frogs and insects) the adults are often stunted because they haven't had as long to develop, but it's better than dying. With orks all you need is some to survive (and stunted ones would probably end up as gretchin anyway), so even if a batch ends up punier than normal they will grow back to full size given enough time given how orks reproduce and how the gestalt psychic field works.

Bumping because I swear I have more praetoria stuff planned

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>>55366436

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Shrikes are the Crone Eldar equivalent of Swooping Hawks or Assault Marines, using their rapid speed and agility to strike without warning on the battlefield. Shrikes are a fear, the wailing cries of the Raptor Cults resembling a cross between a hunting bird of prey and a jet engine. However, shrikes are also notoriously vain and haughty. Although they serve Chaos, they will not fight for any given warband out of any sense of common loyalty to the Ruinous Powers, and demand large payments of loot and captives in return for their aid. Lady Malys and Be’lakor have been known to keep their own Raptor Cults on retainer (with threats as much as rewards) in order to avoid dealing with the more independent cults’ notoriously fickle nature. Shrikes do not worship any one of the Big Four (and resent attempts of aligned warbands to convert them), instead worshipping the Raptor God, a predatory god of fear and cruelty that does not seem to correspond to any one of the Big Four, but in all likelihood represents a greater daemon of Chaos Undivided. After the War of the Beast, some of the Fallen were enticed into worshipping the Raptor God of their own accord, becoming the first Chaos Raptors and later Warp Talons. Raptor Cults are surprisingly open and accepting of non-Crones for a Crone institution, but that is merely because most Raptor Cult devotees have shifted the focus of their disdain from all non-Eldar to all who do not worship the Raptor God, not much of a change overall.

>>55373726
Shrikes are created when a Raptor Cult devotee is deemed sufficiently to be gifted a Shrike symbiote. The symbiote permanently grafts to the acolytes’ body, permanently reshaping them into a form more pleasing to the Raptor Cult’s sensibilities of war. Hands and feet are changed into metallic talons, while a pair of brass or steel wings grows from the back complete with their own set of jet turbines. Dissections of Shrikes have only revealed twisted cancerous flesh beneath their steel exterior, suggesting that their internal workings are warped just as heavily as their outer appearance. Shrikes prefer to use their own natural weapons in melee combat, but when fighting from a distance will use sawguns or filched bolters. Shrikes also have the ability to fire razor-edged blades from the tips of their wings. In this respect they resemble the Stymphalian Birds of Earth myth. Whatever they do not steal they defile and leave unusable, having some ability to spread filth from their deformed internal organs.

>>55373750
Perhaps the most gruesome habit of the Shrikes is their habit of taking plunder from the battlefield in the form of prisoners of war. Shrikes prefer their meat healthy and alive, but if this is not possible they have been known to sweep the wounded and the dying off the battlefield to deny them a peaceful death. Once back in their home realm, they impale their victims on [INSERT NAME HERE] trees, techno-organic plants seemingly composed entirely of thorns in the defiance of all laws of botany. These trees insert tiny microfilaments into the bodies, prolonging their agony and death throes of their impaled victims for as long as possible. These trees serve as more than just nourishment for the Shrikes’ sadistic sense of amusement, for these [INSERT NAME HERE] trees seem to feed on the pain and suffering created by the death throes of their victims to create new shrike symbiotes.

Swooping Hawks, Wracks, and descendants of the Blood Angels all consider Shrikes to be particularly insulting abominations, and will take extra satisfaction upon striking them out of the air on the battlefield.

(Need a good name for the shrikes' trees. Was trying to think of something out of Dante, given that just like the Inferno we have trees filled with people suffering surrounded by swarms of what are essentially harpies)

>>55373773
Damn that's good. Really good.

Maybe Gallow Trees or is that too obvious?

>>55373773
The Raptor Cults have always been extremely protective of the trees that produce their symbiotes. Although they treat these trees with nearly quasi-religious reverence, they know other groups are unlikely to do the same and if the ability to make shrikes became widely available then the Raptor Cults themselves would become obsolete. The amount of damage that could be done if shrike symbiotes were available to less scrupulous hands is easily shown by the events of the Phinean Massacre.

In M37, the planet Phineus II was subjected to a prolonged assault by a group of Crone Eldar, who had hired a large Raptor Cult to raid and sow terror upon its people. Phineus II had few defenses that could deal with fast-moving aerial targets like shrikes, and so the shrikes wreaked havoc upon the defending forces for several weeks. It got to the point that many guardsmen were afraid to sleep at night for fear that the shrikes would come wailing out of the darkness, and the shrikes themselves had begun competing amongst themselves for the most spectacular kills.

Entering into this scene were a group of Tzeentchian Crone researchers, who were not aligned with the invading force yet. The Tzeenchians had at their disposal several hundred shrike symbiotes, a rare prize which had been by stolen from a Raptor Cult by one particularly enterprising researcher. In the dead of night, the Tzeentchians kidnapped hundreds of human and eldar guardsmen from their tents and experimented on them by exposing them to the symbionts, wanting to see if non-Raptor Cult devotees were compatible with the gift of the Raptor God.

>>55374090
Once they were satisfied with their experiments, they released the pseudo-shrikes onto the battlefield, who confused and horrified by their warped condition sought out their fellow Guardsmen for help. The Guardsmen, having been driven to their wits end by the constant attacks and lack of sleep, reflexively fired at the incoming fliers, killing them to a man.

The Imperium was horrified when they realized they had slaughtered their own people. The invading Crone Eldar were furious that another group would interfere with their operations. The Raptor Cults were outraged at the theft and subsequent waste of so many good shrike symbiotes.

The Tzeenchian Crone Eldar thought it was funny.

>>55365438
There's not a whole lot here distinguishes the Iron Hands from normal Thallaxes though. To make them more "Space Mariney" I would suggest that the Iron Hands and their successors are unique among the AdMech forces because they retain most if not all of their cognitive function, allowing for much greater tactical complexity and flexibility compared to the other AdMech forces who are all lobotomized to some degree. This gives them the ability to operate in the high speed, high impact operations that characterize the SMs.

"The unique organization and composition of the Iron Hands was initially adopted by Primarch Ferrus Manus during the beginning of the Great Crusade after analysis of combat data proved the efficacy of the Legiones Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus' lack of a comparable force. Later, the reforms of the Codex Astartes proposed by Roboute Guilliman were accepted and implemented after calculations showed the chapter structure had great strategic and tactical benefits compared to the more centralized legion structure."
-- Excerpt from "The First Founding: An Overview of the Legiones Astartes"

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>>55374110
Tzneetchian dickery at it's finest.

>>55371669
It looks like it's a thing for tomorrow because it's past midnight and I have to be at work in 8 hours.

Is Dragon Lords a just name only chapter or is there any information on them in Vanilla?

Also it's going to be more of an overview of the military down the ages.

Any suggestions?

Bamp

>>55375114
Any other ways that they should be different?

>>55375774
There was this in the previous thread (the only other bit on Praetoria).

>It is not stated anywhere that the Dragon Lords are Salamander successors but honestly who cares.
>Also KotCO are Dark Angels but that's as far as GW got with them. They didn't even get a colour scheme. For shits and giggles I'm going to assume it involved red to some degree.

>DLs are probably one of the blingiest chapter due to living on a prosperous world and being able to buy the few things that they can't make. Lots of Master Crafted Mk8 armour and hand made power weapons.
>The KotCO on the other hand are operating with what can be generously called Mk5 amd accurately described as clattering and clanking Frankenstein plate.

>DLs have master crafted combi-bolters with specialist ammo for every occasion.
>The signature weapon of the KotCO is a sort of extra large las-rifle because ammunition efficiency and las-rifles are about all the local workshops can manage.

>Preatorians are predominantly Promethean due to prolong exposure to Vulkan's influence. It's not Nocturnean Prometheism but it's a close enough relative for it to be recognizable. Also there are communities that follow Yechudism.
>Mordians tend to be adherents to their Small Gods with a minority of Katholians. Their Small Gods were once tree gods, they claim. But those ancient forests burned long ago.

Neither chapter is stupid enough to start being overly evangelical to the locals although they also make no distinction with their recruitment.

>Preatorians display rank on a sash and shoulder stripes, at least the sash on parades and formal occasions.
>Mordians have facial tattoos and wear coloured bars on the chest. They do not do parades and have very few formal occasions.

>Preatorians drink tea.
>Mordians drink """beer""" but only if they can't get anything stronger.

>>55365438
So the main difference between Thallaxi and Iron Hands is autonomy? Thallaxi are mostly lobotomized with just enough brain function to do their job whereas Iron Hands have essentially fully functionality, but are kept in line because they tend to be the hard-core adherents anyway? Along with Iron Hands not necessarily resembling Thallaxi, and can be more specialized for what the job requires, but tend to get Thallaxi-ish as the augments pile up?

Or am I getting something wrong?

>>55378750
Sounds about right to me, but I was the one who wrote this >>55375114

>>55378693
I was never totally down with the KotCO being underequipped to that extent. Even if they can't produce gear locally on the planet, it could still be shipped in from elsewhere in the sector as SMs are simply to valuable as an investment to send into battle with jerryrigged armor. That would be like buying a Ferrari but then not bothering to keep the tires inflated and the brake pads replaced. Even the most underequipped chapters in this AU like the Night Lords and anyone else on permanent Penitent Crusade are well equipped enough to have bolters and such, even if they have to scavenge and scrounge for it.

bump

>>55379410
It's not that the Imperium has cut them off so much as them being on shit warp currents, on a low priority world that gets Chaos tucked at regular intervals.

The currents flow out of the eye which makes approach from any other direction slow. When Chaos comes they use up their supplies quickly and fresh is a long way away.

Also during invasion time they often spread their assets across the PDF. Astartes bolters on a tripod can be operated by a regular human.

>>55378693
This with the new fluff would imply that the Salamanders originally set up something in the Rebuilding when it was time to go into Wilderness space.

The involvement of the Dragon Lords dates back to the founding of Praetoria in the days of the post-Beast rebuilding. It was deemed that the military side of the endeavour would require the substantial presence and use of Space Marines to remove some of the more fearsome and prepared horrors that had moved in during the intervening years. As Primarch Vulkan was the overall commander in bringing the worlds of Wilderness Space back to the light of civilization it was understandable one of his newly minted chapters that set up a way station alongside the more entrepreneurial efforts of the Gredbrittonic founding families.

The head of the space marines in this endeavour was the former Chaplain Commander Xiaphas Jurr of the Afrique League.

Commander Jurr never let the change in position from preacher of the Promethean faith to overall commander interfere with his missionary work and vice versa and it is largely his doing that Praetoria grew into a mostly Promethean world. It was not without practical merit as the forces raised from that world as the years went on all held a faith in common and were all the closer for it. The noble feuds in later years it has been speculated without this vague sense of brotherhood would undoubtedly have bloomed into minor wars.

As Praetoria grew from a minor service stop into a nation the waystation he commanded grew likewise so that in time it was declared a Chapter in its own right with himself as it's commander, a rank he wore well. He and his newly designated Dragon Lords were now distinct from the rest of the Prometheans as whilst he had been influencing the world he commanded from it had been influencing him.

>>55382567
As the population of Praetoria grew the Dragon Lords soon found that they could recruit from there exclusively even with the introduction of the Tithe.

Before the tithe the military of that world was predominantly the house militias and private military companies with only the Red Shirts, the mostly ceremonial soldiers of the Parliamentary Herald, representing the planet as a whole. At the time the Red Shirts were seen as a token force of no real concern and the butt of many jokes due to their lack of real experience and that they were attached to a figurehead rather than anyone with any real power.

This changed when the Imperial Army demanded it's due. They didn't want soldiers loyal to one city, one lord, in contest with their comrades of the same world. They wanted soldiers loyal to the Imperium representing their world as a unified whole. The imposing of a standard uniform was seen as one way to gently erode mental barriers, they were one and all Praetorian.

The distinctive green and black colour scheme of the Dragon Lords was surrendered not long after, coincidentally a few days after the death of Xiaphas Jurr, to their red and ivory as a show of solidarity with the common soldier.

In this time native born Gernebern of Auchmouth, a progeny who rose fast but died a mere few centuries later, took command of the space marines and was the source of much reform within the chapter. It was deemed prudent to have the chapter integrate ever more closely with the common soldiery, slitting the companies up into squads and placing them on long term loan to, at the time, 90 regiments of the Praetorian Guard as specialist squads.

All but one company that was demanded to remain to guard the homeworld at all times.

>>55383282
Despite all the upheavals and political manoeuvrings that could fill a very dry library in their own right it is often over looked the contributions that Praetoria made to the conquest, rebuilding and protection of the wilderness worlds and beyond. Indeed it was in this noble endeavour that Commander Jurr had sacrificed himself.

Were it not for the Red Coat diligence, vigilance and sacrifices the orks, marauders and worse would have just swept right back in and the fate of those that called that place home would have been, at best, pitiable.

>Am I even doing this right or should I stop?

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>>55374110
>The Tzeenchian Crone Eldar thought it was funny

>>55373387
>>55366436
>>55324332

So orks started as cute-bolds all innocent and child like?

I'm all for this. It like the ultimate in twisted perversion.

>>55379410
>>55380811
Both good points. The weapons the KoCO use probably vary depending on how well supplies can get to them and how bad an invasion is going. Mordia doesn't have the resources Cadia does to fight off an invasion. Indeed, IIRC, so much resources get diverted to Cadia that some planets who don't know what a Black Crusade looks like are convinced it is a scam designed to keep taxes high (Severan Dominate).

>>55374110
Should we simplify this? Maybe the Crones who hired the shrikes ostensibly hired them to attack the world, but what they really wanted was a chance to steal shrike symbiotes, leading to the above events. Hence why the shrikes were hired to raid an ill-defended world.

>>55378750
Thallaxi seem a little grimdark. Or is that intentional to make contrast?

What is the Prometheanism like?

Do we have any named Mordians?

>>55385518
Pretty much a cross between cutebolds, smurfs, and traditional goblins. If they were ugly, they were ugly like miniature pugs and their cries of WAAAGH would be adorable, not terrifying. They would have been mostly farmers or hunter-gatherers lazing away in little smurf villages, with a bit of tribal warfare. If this was traditional fantasy they would have made the perfect kid-friendly sidekick.

And then the Old Ones came. And it became "show me on the DNA where the Old Ones touched you".

>>55387339
The Ad-Mech have always been rather open about the fact that they use formerly human servitors, and that the standards for what the Ad-Mech consider grounds for servitorization are different from the rest of the Imperium (e.g., incompetence). Whereas most Imperial institutions prefer to use flash-cloned brain matter and often try to obscure the biological components of any devices, the Ad-Mech still have an aesthetic much like canon. Part of it is a power thing, to remind acolytes that people who can't do their job are only good for spare parts. The Ad-Mech are by far one of the darkest factions of the Imperium (intentionally), despite the fact that they're slightly nicer and have nobler goals than in canon.

That said, most Ad-Mech machines would have to use flash-cloned brain matter, due to simple pragmatism (not enough offenders because everything is not heresy in this timeline). Also, in canon, Thallaxi were basically "Ad-Mech Space Marines" in the first place, even though their creation tended to be more like a dreadnaught. So it might be that Thallaxi and their derivatives are what you call an elite, heavily cybered-up frontal assault Skitarii, whereas others are more flexible in their tactics (especially because they aren't human bulldozers like Space Marines or Thallaxi are).

>>55387533
Strong focus on community, family, and group strength. You support the group and the group supports you. As might be expected, it's a popular faith among Death Worlders and Hubworlders.

They view the Emperor as an ideal human but still human and therefore inherently flawed.

The similarities to the Greater Good have not gone unnoticed in-universe. Tau and Promethean philosophers get into some of the nastiest arguments in-universe, particularly because their religions are so similar (the debate tends to boil down to "strength through unity" versus "unity through strength"). I don't know which shakes out as which side, though Prometheans seem to be more "help thy neighbor" than "everyone has a purpose" like the Tau'va.

>>55388908
Lexicanum has nothing.

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>>55390248
>>55366436
The story told by spirit talkers and psykers that go too far across the galaxy is a strange one but one that is too consistent. Out in the Formless Wastes beyond where things can easily dwell where the rocks and the bones of the warp are bare and without life or moment, beyond where even Be'Lakor hold court there is nothing but the howling of the winds made up of unattended ideas and forgotten passions that swirl among uncaring rocks, lost to the æther. There nothing moves, things that run there to die quietly when all hound them and promise them worse than death, they are safe from predators because nothing can survive there but they are doomed to end because nothing can survive there. Nothing sings in that place beyond were even the unwelcome light of the Astronomicon is visible.

If you survive the trek, oddly slightly easier for mortals than gods or deamons, if you go beyond beyond where the last deamon goes to die, beyond the were the constant rumbling of Gork and Mork's eternal brawl can be heard, beyond hope and dreams and memories and the last swirling forgotten idea lost on dead breezes you can come to the place where children once dwelt.

It looks like a village, or what once might have been a village, next to a river or at least the desiccated corps or a river. The riverbed is bare pebbles, the banks mud long since dried and dead. The village itself is broken, the thatch and sticks of the roofs have fallen in where they have not blown away and not one hut has a full set of walls left standing. The flaps of animal skin and reeds that covered doors and windows are dry and cracked and brittle. And all about is stillness, endless stillness of stories that remain after nobody is left to tell them. Sound does not work well here, if sound can work well in that realm at all. Noise of foot steps and voices are heard a second after they should be and muted, seemingly bled and drained into the grey and sunless sky.

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>>55392037
And then you hear a crunch and you look down.

Covered by an age of dust there are the bones, they look like children at first glance. They are small and humanoid, but they are not and never were though they might have been innocent up until the end. Their brittle bleached bones you realize stretch to the horizon in every direction.

You might hear a slight breeze disturb the dust, but then you realize that there is no wind here. There can't be, this is beyond the place where life can dwell, but something moves the dust. A serpent, small, little more than a grass snake and the only source of colour in this bleak place. It does not live here. Nothing can live here, it lingers. It might have been a small god once in the time that gods weren't so big. It is not dangerous, this place is beyond danger. It's cold unblinking eyes hold only sadness now, whatever it once was.

It can not bite, in it's mouth it holds a small severed finger, pale green. It has only ever been glimpsed briefly, the moment it meets the gaze of another it darts into the bones once more and slithers away into the bones.

The serpent must have a name as all daemons do, but not one that anyone can remember. Not eve the gods.

>>55392473
This is good stuff

Bampan

>>55392473
This is good, maybe just a bit of tweaking to hint to the reader aware of just what they are looking at. There's no way for anyone to know they are looking at the echoes of the past of the Orks unless they read this thread. I don't know exactly what though.

But beyond that, the feels are beyond measure.

>>55396785
I can't think of a way to do it other than outright saying it and that wwould ruin it

>>55392473
>>55397454
>>55397454
>>55396785

I could be that there is somewhere in the wastes an old indipenant deamon. One of the really old fuckers from when there was only Tzneetch and Malal. His job was to make a note of the things created before they were destroyed, sort of an early draft of Nurgle although he was never capable of trying to preserve things, he is a very small warp creature.

He just made watched and remembered things because someone had to.

Back then there were really only the Old Ones that were any sort of power in the galaxy. They had warp travel and had just started to spread across the stars. Necrontyr were still a primitive race barely sapient dying of cancer. C'tan didn't have a warp presence and everyone but the Old Ones were isolated by interstellar distances.

By necessity the gods of that time, if you could even call them gods, were small.

The Chronicler was therefore typical of his time. He achieved his form when he got too involved with a quaint little species of child people. One of them saw a rainbow and tried to draw it in powdered rock and berry juice but it came out looking like a snake. A younger member of the social group came over to look at it. By dusk they were making up stories for fun around the camp fire of The Rainbow Serpent.

The Chronicler was making a record of those people at that time and got too close to the story telling. He was shaped by their imaginations and saw no reason to fight it. chronicler became the Rainbow Snake.

Rainbow Snake and other spirits like him kind of adopted the stupid little shits out of pity and fascination and endearment. Tried to teach them how to make some sort of civilization, rudimentary though it was. Kind of a group hobby for bored proto-deamons with nothing better to do. Had some success but never got them past the late Neolithic in terms of technology, they weren't the brightest sapients.

>>55398420
Tzneetch and Malal creation and destruction without morality and therefore fed well by the Old Ones get overall power in the Warp.

Then the War in Heaven came, the Warp becomes all manner of churned up and the small spirits that the shamans talked to are either devoured by larger and more terrible things or shredded in the storm. Rainbow Snake and a few others survive for a time but as Khorne is born and the other 2 become more and more exaggerated to obscenity the others are picked off one by one.

The adorable idiots without guidance slip back into their older more primitive ways, living in the ruins of what little heights they had managed. Even their homeworld seemed to get darker as ethereal fallout subtly twisted the wildlife to be more dangerous.

By the time the Old Ones came there was Rainbow Snake and maybe a half a dozen helpful spirits left from maybe hundreds. Perhaps it was better that the others had died than see what was born from their adopted children, what the Old Ones did to them.

The other gods didn't survive Gork and Mork's initial rampage and the endearing little morons didn't survive their twisted offspring. The other spirits tried to fight or run and were squashed and eaten. Rainbow Snake found a crack in the rock to slither into and hide, Gork and Mork just brawled right over them and when Khorne came to collect them he slithered away into the Formless Wastes to die.

He visited the old ork homeworld once after the creation of the orks, just once. He found one of the few remaining tribes, possibly the last tribe, before the orks did. It was high up in some desolate mountain where no one wanted to go, no value to anyone but the orks will have their fun. The last spirit talker hacked off one of his finger and gave it to the old serpent, the last of his gods.

>>55398549
Rainbow Snake took the last piece of his children with him when he returned to the Warp. But the deep warp was very much changed from when he was young. It had never been "safe" as such but neither had it been entirely terrible. Now it was actively and totally malevolent.

The Chronicler Snake slithered away to the places where gods don't see, beyond the realm of outcasts and the lost. Beyond the places where life can be found, to the mass graves of his children. To the fields of bones and the dried out riverbeds and the ruination of innocent memories with the severed finger of his last shaman held gently but firmly in his mouth.

The finger will not grow in that dead land but the only place left that it could grow is deep in enemy territory and he is just a small snake.

In that lifeless place without sustenance he should be dead and have died long ago. But he has not. Is it because in his time he has learned to be super efficient? Can he hibernate perfectly because he's a snake? As a deamon of remembrance does the mere act of being observed? Who can say. It's not exactly living, not living as such but he is surviving. He is hiding. If he waits long enough something will change and he can plant that finger in good soft mud. He might have to wait several eternities but he is a snake, he is very patient. He just has to remain hidden in the fields of bones.

>>55390504
What's the worst the Ad-Mech can get away with before someone tries to stop them?

>>55399894
To figure that out, it would be easier to see what the Ad-Mech have gotten away with and extrapolate from there.

The Ad-Mech are highly insular and like to "police their own". While Inquisitors aren't exactly told no unless they want to go into the horrible sections of Mars or unlock the Noctis Labyrinth, they're not exactly made welcome and the Ad-Mech usually does the bare minimum to help them.

The Ad-Mech have a militarized religious institition, the Skitarii. They get away with this through loophole abuse and the grandfather clause. They tend to think of themselves as being more important than the other Survivor civilizations due to being one of the first three civilizations to join the Imperium along with Old Earth and the Voidborn.

The Ad-Mech have a virtual monopoly on tech manufacture. There's a reason the Imperium's progress in technology is painfully slow. The Ad-Mech have just enough power that they are allowed to get away with some of this shit because they make all the toys, but not enough that someone could take them to task for being a true monopoly (there's always the Kinebrach, Hubworlders, Tau, etc., if you don't mind the massive costs due to travel).

>>55401096
As to what the Ad-Mech cannot get away with...

They cannot get away with creating a true monopoly on technology. They wanted to strip the squats of the ability to make technology, but the Imperium shut them down. It's what got them salty towards the squats and led to them being classified as abhumans.

They cannot get away with some of the stunts in canon. The events like what happened on Veyna happened not just because the Ad-Mech are slightly nicer, but because they know the Imperium wouldn't tolerate it.

They probably follow all the other rules of the Imperium. They also know they have to play the political game and be a little nicer, or else everyone else will decide they are better off without Mars.

They could not keep the Void Dragon secret if it got out. The fact that a wounded C'tan is trapped under Mars is a matter of galactic importance, and the Imperium would be furious at the Ad-Mech for keeping it a secret. They might go so far as Exterminatus-ing Mars to contain the threat. And the Ad-Mech know that.

>>55401333
>>55401096
Would they be able to get away with Axolotl tank levels of awful shit or would the Imperium do something?

>>55402269
Possibly not, because it's so similar to the Daemonculaba, which is considered the epitome of awful by groups like the Eldar.

In that particular instance, the Ad-Mech might avoid doing it because in-vitro fertilization without using surrogates is a well-established part of vanilla canon (expect it to be retconned by GW for the sake of grimdark any day now). The Ad-Mech may be asses and occasionally immoral, but they are also practical. They rejected the no militarized religious institutions because they had to (otherwise they would be dependent on others for self-defense), but at the same time they're not Cronedar who invent new and horrible methods of dehumanization as a hobby.

They could use cloned human bodies, but there would be issues of determining if a body is really flash-cloned with no brain or if it's a person. You could flash-clone a famous individual and use their brainless doppelganger in this manner, and then that person disappears in a Warp storm. All of a sudden any investigation makes it look like you kidnapped and lobotomized someone rather than used their DNA to make parts for a machine, and a DNA test couldn't even prove the truth.

Worse would be the individual that willingly turns themself into something like this a la Skaven. It's horrifying and most likely someone's magical realm (most likely the person getting the augments), but there's not a lot you could do about it because on Forge Worlds only broad Imperial laws are recognized, otherwise the Ad-Mech are the law.

>>55403222
>>55402269
Also don't forget Isha. Such a thing would be seen as a perversion of her divine aspects. She is not diplomatic or subtle. If found out the magi and adepts responsible would be murdered and it would not be made to look like an accident, they would just have their throats cut or a knife to the brain.

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>>55401096
>police their own

>it'll self regulate

So do we have any ideas of how to handle the Rangdan Xenocides yet?

In canon, the Rangdan Xenocides were this massive event that involved at least three Space Marine legions (DAs, Space Wolves, and Ultramarines, one of the lost legions is implied to have been involved), a dozen titan legions, and huge numbers of the Solar Auxilla. The Emperor himself had to enter the battlefield to turn the tide in vanilla, and he had to temporarily let the Void Dragon out to win the conflict. Obviously the latter couldn't have happened here, so the question is how did the Imperium win?

In canon, the Xenocides were what passed the title of "largest legion" from the Dark Angels to the Ultramarines due to grievous casualties of the former. In this continuity, the Xenocides could have done the reverse. Guilliman's Ultramarines, while large and well-organized, suffered grievous casualties because of the unknown nature of the enemy they faced, whereas the slightly smaller Dark Angels, who were used to dealing with unidentified shit on a daily basis, were more cautious and had a higher survival rate. The Ultramarines wouldn't have suffered to the degree of, say, the Salamanders during the Drop Site Massacre, but it would have left the Dark Angels as the largest legion and would have set the stage for why their subversion was so bad during the War of the Beast.

The xenos the Imperium faced during the Xenocides have never been explicitly described (though they were called the Rangdan Cerabvores) but it's been strongly implied in the fluff that it was the Slaugth. Maybe Rangda was just their homeworld or the center of their empire.

>>55405442
It's not a matter of what one hopes, it's a matter of what one gets. The Ad-Mech are the most walled off people in the Imperium, to the point that it takes either an Inquisitor or the Administratum to get them to open up.

That said, the kind of bullshit the AdMech do in canon? (E.g., poking around Necron ruins, though hopefully they do less of that here because of the increase in sanity). Mars won't protect you. Doing something of a magnitude that puts a planet in jeopardy or threatens a sector results in the Administratum going to Mars and saying "you will recompense for this and/or leave these guys out to dry. Else there will be trouble". And it's been established that the Emperor isn't afraid to get involved if Mars starts acting stupid. Mars won't start a civil war because one tech-priest was too interested in the Omnissiah's mysteries for their own good. The only thing Mars might push back on if it's an STC, since part of their agreement with the Imperium was they get copies of every STC they find.

>>55406049
I like the implications of the STC agreement. It's nice and double edged kindness.

On the one had if Oscar and his little lads find an STC they are legally obligated to give a copy to Mars. But out of genuine good will and neighborly love he would definitely give a copy to every other technically minded institution he could trust including all the other forgeworlds and other Survivor Civs, neatly negating any possible advantage Mars might get whilst bettering the lives of everyone and winning support.

If Mars gets an STC (and can't be absolutely certain that they can keep it on the quiet) they will try and hoard it because knowledge is power but they will also have to give a copy to Oscar. Who then distributes it and see above.

The ancient Olympus Mons Brotherhood signed this agreement on the assumption that it was just a good way to get the turbo-plebs to do the grubbing around in the dirt for them.

You can move the donkey with the carrot or you can move it with the stick. Oscar will just beat you with the carrot if he thinks you are taking the piss.

>>55405901
Can we keep this as it is? Slaugth are just as fucking awful in this AU

>>55408325
How are they awful? Pretty sure they haven't even been discussed.

>>55408893
Oh nevermind I misread your comment. What are the Slaugth like in canon?

>>55409095
According to Lexicanum, canon Slaugth are ruthlessly manipulative and technologically advanced xenos, called everything from "worms that walk" to "maggot men" and "carrion lords" that are driven by a hunger for flesh (humans, of course), and have quietly set off civil wars on isolated Imperial planets and outposts to kidnap and feed on its subjects. They fear the Imperium's full wrath apparently.
However, they are preparing to throw the Calixis sector into chaos so they can get mouths around their food more easily. In canon 40K, the Inquisition has no idea that this is on the Slaugth's to-do list.

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>>55409095
They're absolute nightmares. They have a personality like a DnD illithid, and they're addicted to eating sapient flesh, particularly brains. Like the Chaos Gods, they don't see their addiction as a problem (in fact they see it as a virtue) which leads them to gluttony.

They're said to have an instinctive revulting effect to most living beings, like blanks, but it works more like a miniature Shadow in the Warp due to unnatural feelings of hunger than existential crisis due to anti-soul. Indeed I think their tech is heavily Warp based.

The only thing that in canon (specifically Dark Heresy) is stopping them from taking over the galaxy is there aren't many of then left, and in a straight up fight they'd be smashed.

>>55408325
Wasn't suggesting we change how awful the Slaugth are. More how the Imperium would have won against them because the Emperor isn't OP plz nerf levels of power like in HH and he can't sic the Void Dragon on them like in canon.

>>55405901
The category "Xenos Horrificus" exists for a reason, and Fulgrim and Ferrus were out smashing the Laer for being horrible. The great crusade involved more reason and diplomacy, but there were still worlds and minor interplanetary dominions being put to the sword for their excesses in the age of strife.

>>55409896
Elder and Interex help, and better strategic leadership and infrastructure management. Also Oscar seems to have a way with human archeotech that Emps lacks, he might have pulled some horrible Man of Iron super weapon on them before it was consigned to Ganymede.

>>55398549
>The other gods didn't survive Gork and Mork's initial rampage
I may have just missed a thread, but how were they created? Your story doesn't mention it.

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"If you're not absolutely sure, shoot it again." - Adepta Sororitas Sister Superior [REDACTED] of the Sacred Rose.

I know Sisters of Battle haven't been a topic for the past few threads, but I finally (sort of) finished this sketch in time for this anniversary thread and wanted to make sure the "Seal Team Six/Secret Service in space and power armor" vibe was right.

Thoughts for a newbie to drawing people?

>>55412821
It's just how I imagined them

>>55411943
It was a few threads ago and I can't remember the specifics

>>55411345
Hm, might be an interesting angle for Oscar in comparison to canon Emps. While Oscar isn't the biologically supergenius that Emps is (Oscar relied mostly on other scientists to create the SMs and whatnot), he does have an innate programmed understanding of DAoT era tech since he was created at the height of the human empire. Not enough that he's able to build it himself (otherwise the Imperium could start churning out DAoT battleships that shoot black holes and whatnot) but enough that he can interface and utilize any archeotech on an instinctive level.

>>55412821
Pretty gud mang. Are you the drawfag that's been around or a new one? The art style seems different from the other pictures posted before.

I won't comment on the technical aspects of this as I'm not qualified, but aesthetically I have a few thoughts. The armor and the sister underneath it could be a bit bulkier. The armor as it stands looks a bit more like carapace armor, and the sister could be a bit wider and more "Amazonian" in stature, for lack of better word. I know GW has traditionally depicted them as rail thin runway models, but the sisters in this AU are augmented superhumans and should have the appropriate muscle mass. Also, a helmet somewhere (maybe held in her hand) would be fitting, since head protection trumps luscious locks of hair in our saner AU.

>>55413491
Keep in mind that they aren't too muscled looking. It's been established that they can pass for baseline human. They aren't supposed to be female space marines.

>>55406657
Also add to that fact that the Hubworlders are Omnissiah worshipers who are also a survivor civ. They have as much claim on those ancient relics of that Golden Age as Mars does.

>>55405901
I'd have it as Rangda was the old homeworld of the Slaught.

Oscar I don't think was much of a frontline soldier after the Unification, when he became The Steward he took his job seriously.

Also yeah, Dragon stays in the box. Presumably the war was won by more conventional means made more devastating in this AU by everyone not being so stupid.

Slaugth are one of the more oh god what xenos in 40k so I can imagine their homeworld being quite fucked up. Human and eldar farms because delicious brains type fucked up. Yes they could eat any red meat and remain healthy, problem is that brains of eldar and humans were yummy and they were genuinely incapable of shit like sympathy or empathy but did find suffering funny. They didn't even believe that Slaugth were all that much superior to humans, they would have turned on each other except that Slaugth, bizarrely enough, isn't edible to other Slaugth.

The Dark Angels and supporting forces would have freed what slaves/cattle they could. They couldn't be called fully human, not truly. They had spent at least a few thousand years being bred for servile, docile natures and to be just strong enough to not need looking after much but too weak to pose any sort of threat.

Eldar rescues due to the longer generational gaps weren't so badly fucked up. They were herded to the nearest craftworld and presumably adopted

The human ones became got the ogryn uplift treatment and were largely adopted by the various Legions. They were docile but they were dutiful, they also had inhuman patience and didn't get bored by repetitive tasks. Their tainted bloodline has by 999M41 faded away though many in the Imperium, even some Space Marines, could claim to have at least one ancestor in the "serf families" as they became known

Rangda was glassed from orbit once as many as could be were rescued. Of the Slaugth; they remain a threat to this day, the death of they empire scattered them among the stars and they multiply in the dark places

Is anyone going to adopt the half finished Praetoria stuff or are we leaving it?

>>55412821
It looks good but is more looking like carapace than power armour.

>>55416174
All that's actually finished should go on the notes page. Someone else will eventually carry on.

>>55413337
Thank you!
>>55413491
>>55413850
>>55417014
>newbie, I'm not the other drawfag
Would a Rosarius count as a sufficiently protective equivalent to a good hat for a Sororitas officer? A bionic eye would be a bit redundant with a helmet.

"Make Sisters of Battle a little more fit-looking next time" has been noted. Will add inner elbow armor and another segment to what is apparently the "plackart." However, after failing at bewb armor before, I'm not sure what else to do to make it look more like power-armor.

>>55415366
So are the Slaugth still going ahead with their "topple the Calixis government" plot in this AU? It seems like it would be in character for them.

>>55418133
You know what works better than a Rosarius? A Rosarius and a helmet.

She doesn't need to be wearing it in the pic, it could just be clipped to her belt. We just need to see that she has one.

>>55415366
Are they actually made of maggots or do they just have riggly skin?

>>55418486
Good point.

>>55419890
They're actually made of maggots linked together by a sheath of mucus, basically a giant colonial organism. Possibly the reason that Slaugth can't eat Slaugth as suggested by >>55415366 is they don't have a centralized brain and the two colonies would just merge into one giant, twice as hungry Slaugth.

This is also probably the reason for their necrotic weaponry, as combined with their biotechnology it's the only way to make sure another Slaugth is reliably dead (though fire, plasma, radiation, etc. would work as well).

Slaugth could eat dead Slaugth but it's hard, tastes bad (no mental pickup), and generally not worth the effort.

>>55418133
In canon the Slaugth are known to be incredibly greedy and self-centered, to the point that one in the Calixis sector is disrupting their plan to be the puppetmasters in the Calixis sector because it doesn't benefit them. They'd be the type to see the destruction of their empire and near-extinction of their species as "not their problem". Slaugth in general seem the type to work by having lots of meat-thralls and constructs commanded by a Slaugth elite. Advanced Slaugth civilization would be more like a feedlot or self-perpetuating parasitic infection than what we would think of. So their operations in the Calixis sector would be not that big of a change for them. Vengeance would be a factor, but the Slaugth would likely consider "revenge" as just another flavor of "eating".

They're like Dark Eldar meets Hrud meets tyranids meets Illithid meets M'galegolo.

>>55420231
Given that the Slaugth are each a colony of creatures they don't, theoretically, need any other Slaugth to survive as a species in perpetuity. The near extinction of their species really was "not their problem".

Their empire and any subsequent successor states could then be thought of as a Slaugth in macrocosm. Each Slaugth amalgam but a single maggot in a vast body and as a body has maggots it can consider disposable or expendable it has it's serfs and slaves.

How did such an utterly selfish species ever manage to create a civilization at all to mention nothing of reaching the point where it could into space travel? Hints towards people fucking with them and uplifting them. But it was done long, long after the Old Ones went extinct so for once it wasn't their sins. The old Eldar Empire or at least someone in it with a strange hobby is the most likely.

>>55421175
>Corrupted Man of Iron central to the maggot man empire
>Malevolent supercomputer runs the logistics of the Slaugh empire as a hobby and to maintain its physical mind so it's pseudo-soul can go party in the warp with the Crones
>without it's long term planning the Slaugh don't really have the wherewithal or inclination to run a centralized empire
>When the Legions finally reach Ragdan and make a beachhead Oscar takes the field and subverts and destroys the derelict old horror
>rest of the campaign is running down the remaining Slaugh factions once their power base is broken

prior to destroying their directing Iron Mind the Slaugh would be a horror technologically and strategically as well, but following that defeat they could easily be dispersed and broken. Their moves against Calixis would also represent an entirely different mindset and strategy than the Imperium's initial defeat of them. Instead of being the masters of gory, planet spanning brain farms and utilitarian arsenal worlds that the Imperium cast down they return as a decentralized, conspiratorial plague, emerging to feed on the Imperium itself like maggots in a wound.

>>55421175
They would have had to have at least one other individual around to reproduce, depending on the type of colonial organism. Some colonial organisms like pterobranchs are all genetically identical clones of each other, and need at least one other colony to keep genetic variation. Possibly even on a populational level (ants, bees, and termites reproduce with an outgroup after all).

That said, even if it were the case, Slaugth probably wouldn't have much tolerance for others outside of breeding. Slaugth society probably saw everyone as either minions, slaves, pawns, meat-shields, or emergency biomass. Especially each other.

Slaugth would have to have some means of cooperation, given that they had an empire that could fight on par with humanity (implying infrastructure) and Slaugth in Dark Heresy have some kind of hierarchy.

My god, between the selfishness and the greed it's like the worst sins of man and Eldar reflected back at them.

>>55421794
>>55421433
These could work well together and are not exclusive.

It would also give Oscar an opportunity to demonstrate to the new generation of super soldiers and eldar why they once called him Warlord.

It would also explain why is was wary when he discovered Elmo of Stillness. Before Elmo the only other old A.I. of man's Dark Age he had encountered were Castigator and the Ragdan abomination.

>>55411943
I think they were formed just as the orks hit a certain population thresh hold and grew with them. Due to inherent orkyness they would not obey the Old Ones and so the orks were barely tamed. Old Ones sent their other new toy Khorne in to bring them back in line and they brawl for an eternity, Khorne can't get an advantage over both of them.

>>55422565
yeah, that story just had them spring forth when the proto-orks were given psychic power by the old ones, and grew up with them as they fought the Necron Empire

Happy anniversary from /w3/

bump

Can the Slaugth control people? If one put a maggot in your ear would it assume direct control of just eat?

>>55427028
Nothing in canon indicates they can control minds, they're really just nasty critters that eat people.

Some people above mentioned they might find suffering amusing or seek vengeance, but I think that may be anthropomorphizing them too much. They seem far more alien than that, creatures with a cunning sapience that is entirely subservient to the drives of their id, namely self-preservation and satisfying hunger, and every action they take is some action towards those ends.

>>55421433
Were the A.I.s, and that one in particular, capable of psychic abilities given that they were mining for warp stuff?

If they were it would explain why they needed Oscar for that particular job. The A.I. probably wasn't insanely powerful but it's reaction time and precision would have been astounding.

>>55421794
>>55421433
>>55421175
So they are a botched Eldar uplift experiment. I would put their date of uplift at before the eldar started the slippery slide into Full Cenobite and still thought of themselves as benevolent demi-gods who must do their best for the poor lesser races. Monstrously arrogant but not sadistic assholes yet.

Slaught at that time were like ants but had discovered tool usage and fire, they thought it would be easy. They were wrong and eventually abandoned the Slaught on Rangda.

20,000+ years later a much more fucked up Eldar Empire poisoned by the Dark Muses return to Rangda and start taking the Slaught as pets. It's fun to drop disappointing or boring slaves into their pen and watch them get eaten alive by maggots, also their warp presence/soul is fucking disgusting so dropping an eldar or other psychic in there even more amusing. When the eldar empire implodes there are a few regressed Slaught colonies dotted around the place.

Dark Age human ship with a freshly batshit A.I. realizes that it's going to need to do something to stave of boredom now that it's finished torturing the crew and passengers. Spots what looks to it's sensors like a primitive civilization on a nearby planet. Can you guess what planet it is? It's Rangda.

Adopts the Slaught as it's own, helped by not being edible. Eventually becomes god-king of the Slaught and cultivates them to the point where they can travel to the stars. Due to their disgusting souls deamons don't harass the Slaught very much, their shit taste essentially giving them a low grade Gellar field equivalent.

Encounter human worlds, due to the A.I. designing their ships the humans assume that the Great and Benevolent Terran Empire hascome to rescue them. Lulz into the murder-feeding-rape pit with them.

Continue to spread slowly breeding human and eldar exodites for desirable traits and being as fucking awful as possible until BAM! straight into the Dark Angels.

Are Slaught only humanoid by habit and for using other peoples salvaged shit or do they form that shape naturally?

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So which chapters get along best with the plebs and the Guard in this AU?

>>55427028
>>55427722
Actually in the few bits mentioned about the Rangda Xenocides it's mentioned the Slaugth did have some way of brainwashing people that worked on even Astartes. In vanilla it led to a really nasty purge of a whole bunch of Space Marines (including potentially most of one of the lost legions) because they couldn't tell who wad infected and who wasn't.

>>55427881
I would say that they weren't built with that in mind but once they were corrupted by Chaos they learned.

>>55430460
At the moment probably the Smurfs due to the increased recruitment drive

>>55432533
How far into the whole Legion building should Titus have gotten by 999M41?

>>55430460
Also what are the limits on where the Templars can recruit from?

>>55431399
So far Men of Iron in the setting have been robots with middling to strong AI and bodies ranging from android to titan, and psychic presence equivalent to a non-psyker human. Iron Minds have been strong to very strong AI with non-humanoid, generally non-mobile bodies, unless they want to move the planet they're built on. The Iron Minds had psychic powers on the level of greater daemons or eldar sorcerers, and were sufficiently alien and vast to need the Men of Gold to act as middlemen between them and the Great and Bountiful Human Dominion.

>>55430460
>>55432533
The Salamanders and their descendants are said to be really popular due to being closely associated with the army (often acting directly alongside baseline troops more than any other group), so they would be well-regarded simply for the amount of interactikn with the common person.

Ultramarines also show up high on the list. During the Great Crusade Terra's Children, of all legions, were looked upon highly, in part because of Fulgrim's advertising and in part because people who interacted with them found them to be witty, erudite, and cultured and yet some of the most skilled warriors.

Of course those who actually knew what was going on knew that Terra's Children were that way because its members were always the inteligent, perfectionist type before becoming marines in the first place, rather than becoming that way through legion culture. They also didn't tolerate imperfection well and couldn't cooperate as well as the "Joe average" Ultramarines.

>>55433984
Recent enough that's its fresh in people's memories but long enough that the gossip from the anti-Titus fanclub has started to fester. In a previous thread it is said that Titus discreetly received a whole bunch of Imperial resources when he proposed the idea (the Emperor had been planning the same thing for years but when Titus made the suggestion public he threw the resources behind him so someone else could take the credit).

>>55434422
Have we decided on which side the captains and other prominent Smurfs stand on Titus and his Legio Primaris?

>>55435769
we discussed it but I don't remember what was said

>>55435818
Master of Sanctity Ortan Cassius is in the pro-Titus camp I remember.

There was also in there about the division between the monotheists and polytheists of Ultramar. Cassius was a Pontifex of the polytheists. They were kind of Hellenic because when the HQ of the Smurfs is the Fortress of Hera it's pretty obvious what flavour it is. Although it does imply that they maybe consider Hera head of the pantheon.

Ultramarines, like the rest of the Imperial Institutions, is not inherently religious. Cassius is therefore in the chapter council for being experienced, knowledgeable and consistently proven correct in his advice. The whole ordained priest thing being something he does on the side that has no bearing on his duties for the chapter, just like Lorgar in ages past.

Bamp

>>55437237
Cato is in the pro-Titus camp. He let Titus get promoted to chapter master over him because being chapter master means he would have to give up being the chapter champion, which means he no longer gets to duel people and can't act as freely as he does. So it's not for altruistic reasons, but at least he doesn't buy into the conspiracy theories.

Tigurius, being one of the few who have touched the Hive Mind and lived, would normally be Team Titus, but given his personality he's more Team Can't We All Just Get Along And Squash the Bugs? However, his introverted and seemingly aloof nature means that while he's respected he doesn't have the charisma to sway people to either side or to his own position.

>>55439810
What has happened to First Captain Severus Agemman in all of this?

>>55435769
>Pro-Titus
Ortan Cassius, Master of Sanctity - Believes that will all the shit going down they are approaching a time of great change like the Great Crusade was but bigger and they need this shit for it.

Varro Tigurius, Chief Librarian - He has seen some shit when he looked into the eyes of the Hive. Shares the Kryptman view that they are the biggest galactic threat at the moment, out of all humanity he is the only one who has seen the scale of the enemy and it fucking terrified him and he isn't easily worried. His big complaint is that Titus is being to disruptive in his changes.

Fennias Maxim, Master of the Forge - He couldn't give much of a shit about the Codex and as a member of the Mechanicus isn't too concerned with Imperial Law either.

Severus Agemman, 1st Captain - Believes in the superiority of Ultramar in all things, therefore in these trying times as the greatest civilization unbroken link to the Dark Age it needs a Legion of it's own.

Uriel Ventris, Captain of the 4th - Has also done time with the Inquisition and has also seen the classified reports.

Epathus, 6th Captain - Because Fenris is doing it and he'll be damned if he's going to stand by and watch barely literate barbarians be better at anything than Ultramar.

Numitor, 8th Captain - Because fuck Cato Sicarius and his bottom bitch Leandros.

Everyone else is in the Neutral or Anti-Titus camps. It can be because they resent his sudden rise to power, suspicion that it happened so soon after being in -][- service or that they are just too dogmatic and can't adapt or grasp the need to adapt.

Also Belisarius Cawl, High Magos of the Adeptus Biologicus, has "volunteered" his services and his brotherhoods in the creation of the new Legion seemingly out of nowhere. This is even more suspicious than Mira and her Cadians appearing out of nowhere and getting senior training jobs in the Macragge PDF.

With the Slaught should it be a genuine Pariah effect or just that they taste like psychic shit?

>>55443516

What should Cawl be like in this AU?

What should the Hellenic inspired pantheon of Ultramar be like?

>>55443516
>This is even more suspicious than Mira and her Cadians appearing out of nowhere and getting senior training jobs in the Macragge PDF.

Not that suspicious. Cadians are know for badassery and if there had been nepotism rife in the army at the time it could have needed a shakeup.

Also hand holding

>>55443516
Ok, while we all love Titus I'm getting the feeling that people are going out of their way to jerk him off. This isn't canon where he's the only sane man in a chapter of dogmatic assholes, the people who object to what he's doing have valid reasons for doing so.

Recall how expensive creating a Space Marine and his gear are. The resources needed to build an entirely new legion from scratch in the span of a few decades will push even a wealthy and prosperous region like Ultramar to the brink of bankruptcy. Alternatively those funds could be used to build new battleships to defeat the Nids in space before they even land on planets, which is an arguably more effective use of resources, or to raise huge numbers of new Guardsmen, since the limiting factor for the Imperium isn't manpower, but materiel like guns and logistical supplies. And even then, this will mean pretty much cutting all social spending and non-essential parts of government. Millions will likely starve. Infrastructure will crumble. Society will wither.

While the Emperor can offer some support and discretionary spending, it will be limited. That would require diverting resources from the rest of the
Imperium, which are also under siege and have their own problems, and it will look like he's playing favorites.

Ultimately, Titus and his supporters have a very good point: if some measures aren't taken to bulk up, then everyone will die. But his critics also have good points: that building a legion is an ostentatious ego-stroking display, and that the money should be spent in more mundane but cost effective ways like new ships or more Guardsmen; or that when he is finished Ultramar will be a withered husk with barely anything left to rebuild, and that he is destroying the village in order to save it.

>>55448793
All concerns he is having to balance

>>55448793
The fact that Titus' Primaris initiative is expensive in addition to being a borderline legion-building exercize is a good point. The takes on Cassius, Agemman, and Epathus mentioned by >>55443516 could easily be applied to Ultramar building a legion of starships or, in the words of 1d4chan "giving a melta-gun to everyone that has hand and praying for the best". And with starships you can at least put them to civilian use afterwards. What can you do with several hundred thousand super-soldiers during peacetime? At best you are expecting them to die in droves like cattle against the 'nids, cancelling each other out but leaving Ultramar depleted. At worst you now have a legion of several thousand rowdy super-soldiers who could end up turning right around and marching on Sol.

Regardless of how much we like Titus, the Primaris initiative is still an insanely risky gamble.

>>55444698
I think it's just they revolt everyone by their psychic presence, Slaugth seem to have a lot of Warp tech and from what I can find their no-psyker Warp rules work differently from those of actual blanks (Slaugth give a -10 malus if you try to touch them with psychic powers, blanks give a -25 malus to any attempt at psykery within several meters of their person), though I could be wrong, my Dark Heresy-fu is not good. Plus they can be mistaken for a normal human in heavy robes on the street, blanks can't do that.

If this is the case then the Slaugh are like blank-lite. Their nature and frankly awful personality make them revolting to any psyker (which would ironically mean even the Hrud find the Slaugh revolting), but would provide no protection against daemons or other Warp Entities.

>>55448793
>>55449332
It could be that he's planning to use them as a Super PDF and when the bugs have gone turn them on the orks.

>>55449579
>>55444698
I thought the slaught had a mini-shadow of the warp effect. The tyranids, with the sheer mass of psychic minds all working in unison cast a hellish pall over psykers on a stellar scale. I imagine slaught, being a mass of worms can do something similar on a smaller scale. The fact that they're unified for such an abhorrent cause can only help with the appalling broadcast.

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>>55447075
It doesn't need to be an almost direct copy-paste of the old Greek-Roman Pantheon. Although it should retain the basic flavor as Ultramar is ERE IN SPACE!

For one thing they could see them as equal parts personifications of humanities virtues and spirits of the Greater Human Soul to which all are bound

Hera, as the chief deity of a substantially militarized society, could be more in line with Bastet with less cat. She is the protector, the figurative lioness who will fuck up your day if you threaten what is hers. She also defends the Sun. As a space faring society that has been traversing the stars since man first settled that region of space some 30,000+ years ago it is a spiritual sun, the light of civilization around which society is nurtured

The other deities in the Ultramar Pantheon are subservient to her and usually her offspring because it is only from this light and the willingness to protect this light and warmth that the very basics of humanity, not a a civilization, but as a functioning species can arise. She is worshiped extensively by the PDFs and the IG Regiments raised in Ultramar, they do not typically pray for her to protect them but that they might protect others

Thanatus should be another deity worshiped, if worshiped is the word. Some of the more fringe worlds might raise a regiment or two into which they can dump them as a containment measure. They are, the ones that are born on the ground, Ultramar's local branch of the Religio Mortis usually referred to as Morites. They do enlist to protect. They are typically those who have lost too much to want to stay and now pray that they can get even. They demand the chance to honour their Pale Lord, to be his hands in this world and take some fucker out before he claims them. Often depicted as like a spider sitting at the heart of a galactic web

He is also worshiped by the Void Born of the Eastern Fringe as one of their tribal gods. They do not share their traditions with outsiders

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>>55429583
When first discovered by the eldar probably not, though they may have adopted the shape or been forced to adopt the sape for ease of communication.

The malevolent A.I. might have encouraged them to take that shape for insane reasons of it's own.

Now they infiltrate human society so presumably they keep shape for that reason and because they can use human tools and toys.

>>55444698
Probably the "taste like psychic shit" defense, because the Pariah gene was engineered into humanity and it doesn't seem like the Dark Age of Technology humans knew about the Blank genome. This would've meant they couldn't have genemodded the Slaugth to have it, and the Slaugth couldn't have had it naturally, from what I can tell.

Bamp.

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>>55454691
Deceiver could have used the chaos of the Age of Strife to introduce the Pariah gene into humanity. Things were so disorganized then that no one would have noticed, and the Necrons hadn't woken up yet to find out that some of their Tesseract Labyrinths had broken down during their sixty million year power nap.

Pariah gene could have been a genetic extrapolation from what the Necrontyr had. Considered but eventually deemed moot point when everyone decided to become skele-bots.

>She is the protector, the figurative lioness who will fuck up your day if you threaten what is hers. She also defends the Sun.

Isn't this basically Sekhmet? Or is that the joke/reference? There are so many sneaky historical reference in both vanilla 40k and here I can hardly tell anymore.

30k Ultramar in canon actually tolerated some religions in defiance of the Imperial Creed but the only reference I can find is that some of them were Katholian or something similar (Catheric). I would say it probably wasn't a majority religion both to keep the GRECO ROME IN SPACE THEME and because if the Imperium didn't bother overtly stamping it out in canon it probably wasn't too common.

>>55450399
This seems like the best explanation.

Thread archived on suptg.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/55313386/

>>55456822
Sekhmet correct me if I'm wrong was also associated with judgment and law.

I would have that be a separate thing. A Themis type figure.

>>55445925
Less clockwork, more Frankenstein. AdBio rather than AdMech.

>>55460015
Given that the AdBio were made originally founded by amalgamating many diverse institutions (genesmiths, Bio-druids, etc) and then later just kind of tacked on to the AdMech to no ones satisfaction I can see them being far less unified in their views down the ages and as a result of the differing hierarchies inexpertly stitched together are far more fluid and last stratified compared to the Mars Mechanicus.

High Magos Cawl of the AdBio therefore is not much like a Magos of the AdMech proper. Magos in the AdBio is more like "project manager" than anything else. Jubblowski's assistant is a Magos for example because she is in charge of the Jubblowski project.

Magos Cawl if assigned by the Emperor to assist Titus would be one of the experts in his field, that field being Astartes pattern Space Marine body modding. He would also have large staff of underling based not on his rank but on the scale of the job. He would have one Adept (or equivalent title to their order) per chapter needing to be created and a shit load of lay-splicers and technicians actually doing the tedious shit.

Cawl himself is not too outrageous looking for a Magos of the AdBio. He looks mostly human to the naked eye bar the chloroplasts making him an uneven green colour and all delicate little surgical scars. It's not until you look under the skin that the extend of his mods become evident.

Until he was offered (bullied) into this job he was a recluse. He didn't travel the galaxy; people sent children to him and he educated them and turned them into knowledgeable adepts, he was permitted this because he was one of the big authorities in his field of study. He was born on Molech some ~600 years ago and wanted to die there hang gone nowhere in the mean time because he fucking loves that planet.

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>>55459696
>>55452348
If we're taking the Greco-Roman gods and making them Egyptian flavoured then Ma'at might fit better in that she was the deity of law, justice, order and harmony rather than just law.

Although keeping the toga and blindfold look. Also the sword on the principle that laws are worthless by themselves if you aren't willing to enforce them.

>>55428498
It's not enough.

We need more fucking awfulness.

How are their dealings with the Dark Eldar?

Given their weird foul tasting souls they wouldn't be of interest as a source of nutrition most probably but they do have hobbies in common. Is that enough to build a relationship on?

Have we had any arbiter characters yet?

>>55464387
We should mention Shira Calpurnia somewhere.

>>55460875
Alternatively, he's an AdMech who's been in exile because Mars doesn't like how he's been interested in biology and the AdBio's workings, because the flesh is weak and all (and they want to keep cyborging and bio-enhancement as far apart as possible) but that might be going too far.

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>>55460875
Archmagos Belisarius Cawl started his life in 333M41 like many born to the Adeptus Biologicus in that he was born from as the fruit from one of the bizarre half-animal gestation trees of Molech. Odd things, part plant and part animal and with a seed pod designed to hold and support an implanted human embryo until full development. He had no parents, or possibly he had legion of them as his genes were a randomized assortment taken from the seed vaults of the Blood-Cutter order.

He grew up as many such branch children do, regimented into cohorts of his own age and, when characteristics and aptitudes became evident, abilities. It was not a bad childhood or at least not as bad as it could have been. He sent his youth in an almost magical kingdom of strange flowers, towering trees and bizarre animals spliced and cultivated by the genius of his and kindred orders.

He grew to be wise, quick to learn and meticulous in his duties though quite introverted. His aptitude was found to be in the modification of things that were already functioning rather than the majority of the Blood-Cutter order who typically specialized in making new organism from scratch. Cawl's earliest assignments as a Technician-Novice was in the manipulation of viruses and bacteria useful in the creation of vaccines, efforts that saw his first master repeatedly targeted by decidedly unsubtle Nurgle Cultists. In one such altercation it was discovered that Novice Cawl was, when backed into a corner, more than capable of defending himself when several assailants were found fatally stabbed in the head and neck with scalpels. These attacks did nothing for Cawl's already difficult disposition and were almost certainly responsible for his massive reluctance to never leave his home planet.

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>>55467629
When it was deemed he had learned enough from his first master he was transferred to another of the orders elders to learn the mysteries of immunity and organ transfer. He proved quite good at this and used his now considerable knowledge to tailor viruses with genes of the intended recipient to change genetic markers in the foreign organ to make it acceptable to the host body. This was considered work of the highest order, far beyond what a mere Novice should be capable of and so it was to be his official Master Piece and he was declared a true adept, an ordained member of the Blood Cutters.

His work was of such astounding quality that customers would come to him and he would never have to leave Molech, a fear that had only grown over the years. Typically he was commissioned to piece together aging governors and other medium to big-ish players who had already had some work done to them, often from a rival order, and weren't following the official human internal plan anymore. It would be nice to think that they asked for him in person but at that point he was probably being given the jobs the elders weren't willing to be accountable for. But Cawl was a very fast learner and proved capable of fixing most of what was dropped on his work slab.

This won him many friends, it also won him many enemies. Specifically political rivals of his patients who would like him to stop giving them additional years of grief. Cawl knew he had made it big when he had to dodge his first attempted murder, attempted murderer sadly could not be brought in for questioning after Cawl jammed the sharp end of a broken long necked beaker into his throat.

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>>55467937
It was not until the 4th Khrave Incursion that his name truly got made known as his workshop was one marked as a repair center for broken Space Marines of both the MkIII MP Astartes and the Dog Soldiers of Vin's World. Many of these broken super soldiers were suffering from a combination of various carcinogenic substances and several mutagenic infections. By this time Cawl was approaching the end of his third century and had Novices of his own to teach and he felt that they learned a lot from being allowed to open a Space Marine up whist still working (and conscious). Most of those that came to him survived to everyone's amazement bar his own.

It was at at about this point in his life that he started, as all of his kind seem to, to look towards self improvement. Like all of his kind it became somewhat of a hobby of his although unlike most of his kind he at least made some effort to remain looking human.

Belisarius Cawl continued to work diligently and his work was much sought after despite his eccentricities. One of his most worrying eccentricities was making people "better" rather than just well. All that his patients knew of for sure when the anesthetic put them under was that they would wake up healthy. They might also wake up with a new set of lungs they didn't ask for or a more prehensile tongue, one of his favorite things to do was to replace the melanin in peoples skin with different compounds so that patches of it would tan a different colour and make beautiful patterns. Possibly he was slightly insane but it was a useful very insane.

By the time he was first contacted by Emissaries from distant Ultramar he was approximately 590 years old. He was by then a mottled green of unevenly spread chloroplasts in his skin and his eyes would have looked more at home on a cephalopod but compared to others of his type of such advancing years was comparatively normal. Physically normal at least. His mental state was questionable.

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>>55469009
It wasn't until several more requests the final of which was slapped onto his desk via Custodes power armoured fist with the stamp of the Emperor's own signet ring waxed on to it that Cawl got out of his workshop and onto the orbital tether. He didn't know what stake the Emperor had in some little king's project and he didn't much care. What he did know was that the big man in the banana armour was very scary and probably wouldn't ask as politely next time.

And so Cawl left the world he had no intention of leaving, to travel across an Imperium he had no desire to see to work in a nation he had no desire to visit. He didn't even like Ultramar. Or at least he didn't like Macragge, a name he couldn't pronounce but he just assumed all of Ultramar was like Macragge. They put tomato and everything and ate cheese which were two things he disliked and the language was abrasive and hold your fucking hand still when you speak you fucking barbarian what the fuck is wrong with you put some fucking pants on for fucks sake holy shit all the men are wearing dresses GOD I HATE FOREIGNERS!

Needless to say he did not make friends easily or possibly at all. But he was not there to make friends, he was there to make Space Marines or at least oversee a big project of other people making Space Marines and ensure that they did it properly. Or at least that's what he should have been doing had the gormless twit in charge of the Ultramarines hadn't called for him before getting the project approved by his government. This did not improve his mood and only made him long for returning to Molech and he most probably would have except that the golden plated banana man was probably camping in his office waiting for him so he was just going to have to stay here. With the pagans. With these idiot pagans.

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>>55469589
So with a whole warehouse full of Astartes components he wiled away the time between upgrading Ultramarine recruits with self improvement. None of the actual Space Marine parts would fit in his frame even if they were genetically compatible (they weren't and he couldn't do much about that because the organ was weird and stopped working).

In the end he settled for making cheap knock offs several sizes smaller. In his chest is one mostly normal lung and one counterfeit astartes lung and two scaled down astartes secondary hearts. One of is kidneys has been replaced with a poor copy of an Astartes kidney and he has done something to his bone marrow that makes the blood more clotty when exposed to the open air. He's also lost the ability to grow hair, he suspects the altered blood chemistry has done that. Or the stress.

And so continues the mostly inglorious story of Archmagos Belisarius Cawl of Molech.

Despite his misgivings about his current position in life and the Imperium it can not be denied that if nothing else Ultramar has at least got a legendary doctor.

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>>55469757
And that's it.

Is it any good?

>>55469757
Is so bad it looks like I killed the threads.

>>55471383
I have no strong opinon on it one way or the other. There are parts I like, but I know others have had reservations regarding some of the Primaris stuff, so I am waiting for others to chime in.

That's just me though.

>>55471383
Don't worry, it's pretty good, giving Cawl a backstory and personality as a grouchy old, possibly (certainly) nutty mad scientist type whose life is all about his work. Although that could probably be applied to most of the Mechanicus/Biologis as well. Cawl also sounds like an Mad Dok or Druchii surgeon, especially with the sentence "All that his patients knew of for sure when the anesthetic put them under was that they would wake up healthy."

Tldr, the thread is just inactive today.

>>55450073
Whether Titus is right or wrong is immaterial to the point I was making. I was simply tired of everyone assuming Titus was unimpeachably right and wanted to give some nuance and points to his critics so they weren't just straw man obstructionist assholes. People in the nobledark are rational and love the Imperium, they can disagree on the right way forward and still have valid points.

>>55472448
Agreed with this anon. As a bit of writing it's solid, but I'm not totally sold on what we have for then Primaris stuff.

As a super minor lore nitpick for this AU, you wrote of the Khrave incursions here >>55469009, they were actually exterminated by Macharius during his crusades in the fluff on 1d4chan. (I only noticed because I wrote the Macharius stuff and purposely picked the Khrave because I thought they were so minor that no one else would include them in their fluff.)

>>55472960
I just needed hostile xenos

>>55463274
In canon, Commorragh has a port where the more debauched species of xenos barter with the inhabitants and one another and the Dark Eldar pick up new tips and tricks. It's a species-segregated market district, but that's as much due to the fact that your average non-Dark Eldar is more likely to get shanked if they leave it. In this timeline it's been mentioned that the Crones peddle their wares here along with the other outsiders, at least until they started running the asylum.

The Slaugh might be another frequent sight in these markets (at least, more frequent than elsewhere in the galaxy), trading whatever technological abomination they've cooked up in exchange for BRAINS as well as new and exciting ways to "spice" them, as well as the other way around. The Dark Eldar with their withered psychic powers don't have the instinctive freak-out that their more psychically inclined kin do, so this gives them the opportunity to swap awful and debauched ideas with each other.

>>55472960
We need an Ultramarine captain who opposes Titus out of clearly noble reasoning. A Brutus to Leandros' Cassius, though one who is not easily manipulated like Brutus. He doesn't share in the anti-Titus paranoia (frankly if rising in rank because of the death of your predecessor in battle is grounds for concern half the Astartes would have to be investigated), he may even respect Titus' military achievements, but he thinks that Titus' plan is going to break Ultramar.

"Do you know how much it takes to outfit a Space Marine chapter? There's a reason founding of new chapters is handled on a case-by-case basis by the Administratum. And yet our Chapter Master wants to raise new Space Marine chapters on a scale not seen since the Great Crusade, with Ultramar footing the bill no less! Mark my words, the sole result of this Primaris project is that it will strip Ultramar bare of resources before the tyranids do."

>>55474954
Even in their psychically shrunken state, I'm pretty sure Dark Eldar still have more of a warp signature than the Tau, and I would assume the Tau are still revolted by the Slaugth. So I imagine the DE-Slaugth relationship is very much at arms length, where the DE hold their noses and choke back the vomit just long enough to do business with the worm men.

Can Dark Eldar convert to Chaos? If they do does Slaanesh stop draining them?

>>55476690
kinda. If they start living in the eye with the rest of the Crones Slaany might actually just show up and molest them.

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What sort of lives do the Judges in this AU live?

I was thinking of attempting to do some writefaggatory about the one judge of Necromunda Hive Primus

How often does Oscar get his Warlord on?

I know it's only going to be for special occasions but how often should they come about on average?

can gene-stealer be cured?

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Are psychic permitted to be arbiters?

>>55478782
He can't resist looking at the maps and advising when he and Isha pass a troubled world with the traveling court, but very rarely does he change his golden silks for golden armor, let alone take the field. He might get personally involved in a military operation once in a couple hundred years, and of those he'd only actually fight in the direst of conflicts that merit his attention.

We know he fought in the civil war, and the first world engine got his attention enough that he took a shot at it with the astronomicon, and would have gone to fight it had it persisted long enough. He's made diplomatic interventions for Survivor civilizations, and probably dropped in on the three cycles of imperium/tau diplomacy. He's presumably the head strategist when it comes to repelling black crusades.

Things I can imagine would likely draw him into a conflict would be the aforementioned crusades, major hive fleets entering combat, Necrons breaking the uneasy ceasefire and heating up the galactic cold war, or strife on very prominent worlds. Even then, in most of these cases I'd expect it would take a dedicated push against him and his position to get him in personal combat.

>>55476690
>>55476820
I would probably say that they can and it probably would stop the draining. We have cases of Craftworlders becoming Crones or Dark Eldar. Crones wander through Commoragh like Chaos Jehova's Witnesses. If they start living in the Eye Slaany might show up and molest them, but honestly that's the case with everyone. As for the draining, for Slaanesh the despair and fear just wouldn't be fun anymore if they started enjoying it.

It would be a serious temptation for Dark Eldar to go Crone, but at the same time it would mean putting themselves under the yoke of a god, and long ago the Dark Eldar decided they would no longer let their lives be dictated by any higher authority. Plus any Dark Eldar who converts would likely be low on the Chaos food chain, because of the lack of psychic powers and the fact that they converted. Whereas in Commorragh they could in theory rise to prominence with enough hard work and backstabbing.

>>55477561
From what I've heard we've kind of had them as Space Interpol. As in, their job is to A) make sure the police force of a given planet is up to Imperial standards, B) go after criminals whose actions cross planetary lines and thus jump in and out of local jurisdiction, like the squat Yakuza, and C) occasionally handle stuff that would be too big for local authorities (and if it's too big for them, they usually call in the Sisters).

At least, that's what I remember. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

>>55481338
I think we shifted the Astronomican thing to the Harrowing, if we kept it at all.

>>55481627
you're right, it was the Harrowing, which makes a bit more sense

>>55479596
I would say no. We have to keep the dark in the nobledark.

Little stealer babies in their little stealer cradles

>>55477561
I don't think they would be as harsh as the Judges in Judge Dredd but they shouldn't be that far off.

They would be strongly discouraged from taking a wife, forming serious relationships or owning property. They would get a day off per week moved around often so it can't be adapted to by perps and they would be subject to extreme psychological testing. Nobody wants a Judge Death incident.

>>55477561
If pic related, Judges could have relations with other Imperial citizens, but in a previous thread, it was said retirement was an unwritten expectation of any Judge who married, to prevent conflict of interest and Judges being unable to do their job properly. Also, unless the "one judge" title is metaphorical, it would be untrue, as a city like Necromunda Primus would have more than one Judge to keep an eye on the local branches of the Imperial government.

>>554795
Those infected by genestealers shouldn't be able to be cured. They're changed on a genetic level after all, and even the more progressive Nobledark Imperium would not have the equipment and skills to cure infections.

>>55484284
All Judges are one Judge under one Law. Nobody is above or beyond the Law.

>>55480604
I think in the previous thread it had that they were a separate branch that was used only to investigate after an accusation had been made, investigation underway and to get confirmation to mitigate potential screw ups. They are not used to, for example, scan crowds of people and pick out people without prior accusation.

They are not part of the actual hierarchy for the same reason that they are not in the Imperial Army, mostly that nobody wants to be responsible for their weirdness and their potential to fuck up even without real authority is already prodigious.

The only way to get a Judge Anderson would be for a latent telepath to go active whilst already a Judge. It's then probable that they would then be removed from their previous position and put with the other psykers for reasons.

It is an imperfect system, but caution is warranted.

>>55390635
Does the Promethean Creed have a head of the faith?

I'm imagining that the Katholians do

I'm imagining Yechudism does not and it's a community by community basis and interpretation of scripture.

Presumable Vulkan was the head at one point of the Prometheans but did they appoint a leader after he died or did it go the way of the Void Born nation?

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saw this on /his/, figured it worked well for Oscar during the great crusade

bamp

>>55479596
>>55482025
>>55484284
It was mentioned in a previous thread that given the nature of the Imperium in this timeline, the Imperium would have at least two options for detecting genestealers: the Eldar, who in canon all three factions have medical technology capable of detecting genestealers, and the Kroot, who can detect genestealers by tasting a sample.

The problem is that in order to get tested for genestealer infection you have to show up to get tested. The people who generally get infected in canon tend to be vagrants, homeless, or other dwellers of the underhives, people whose absence would not be noticed in the first place. And there are still poverty and slums in this timeline, despite being nobledark. Even if you called for a mandatory inspection, the infectees would be so brainwashed they wouldn't show up, and keeping a reliable census of the underhives is bordering on madness. The only thing such an inspection would do is find late-stage genestealers, by which point it's probably too late to save anyone.

Genestealer hybrids are still genestealers. There's no saving them. You could, if you got very, very, very lucky, save some of the infectees, but I don't know how well that works and there is a chance for relapse.

It was mentioned in an earlier thread that one of the major reasons for open Imperial-Hrud fighting is that the Hrud tend to notice genestealer cults that no one else does (given their preference for the underhives too), and Hrud are just as threatened by genestealers as humans/Eldar/tau/etc. are.

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Well, today's the day. Exactly one year ago today (or yesterday, rather), the first Nobledark Imperium post was made.

I wanted to make an anniversary picture to show how far we had come, but I couldn't figure out what the best examples of writing we made for this project as examples of /tg/ getting shit done.

>>55481627
> squat Yakuza

Is this a thing? It needs to be

>>55492343
It'd be pretty amusing to compare the waifu shit from the early threads to the philosophical musings or more serious writefaggotry that came later.

How smart and powerful should Rainbow Snake be and could he be a minor play in the coming Ragnarok?

Maybe he gives over the finger to Isha in a supreme act of trust and suicide attacks Gork (or Mork) and distracts them enough to diver their course into Khorne or some shit.

>>55494965
I imagine Khorne actually doing everything in his power to avoid a (second) confrontation with the Gorkamorka, and still resents the previous defeat so much he won't risk a repeat.

Is there an Ork homeworld?

>>55492238
Is it all Kroot that can taste genes or is it just the shapers?

Also can being a shaper be learned or is it a thing you have to be born to?

Also are Kroot allowed in the Arbiters because the idea of Judge Chicken is just of lovely?

pag nin bamf

>>55495371
Technically yeah, but they've been dispersed throughout the galaxy for so long it's not really relevant.

>>55499068
IS it that it's lost, destroyed or just meaningless to even them?

>>55492343
Damn this has been going long

>>55499236
I'd say lost, unrecognizable, and irrelevant unless you're looking for proto-ork fossils

Bamp for writefaggotry soon

page 10 bump

>>55501712
Which writefaggatory are you planning on doing?

Is the Dorn still up for grabs?

>>55506654
Seems so, unless the writefag who was doing it shows back up again.

>>55497147
I think they all can. It's important to note in this respect that the Kroot don't see themselves as Imperial citizens per se. They see themselves as having signed a preferred clientele agreement with the Imperium (more specifically with the Tau). If there were other races out there they might go work for them as well. However, in practice they are essentially Imperial citizens because Necrons, Orks, Q'orl, and tyranids won't hire them, and Chaos tastes bad and tends to backstab. You might see some Kroot working for a Dark Eldar kabal, but they might be reluctant if they see it as ruining any future mercenary jobs from the Imperium. So Kroot might get brought on as hired third-party experts for Arbite or Inqusitorial investigations.

As for non-human Arbiters, I'm not sure. Going back to >>55486895 It makes sense that psykers would not be allowed in the mainstream arbiters, or at least psykers that don't subscribe to Typhon's philosophy of "psychic powers are a temptation and it is the responsibility of every psyker to not use them". Headscanning crowds regularly is a good way to get Perils of the Warp, or they do something like mind-read a Slaugth and freak out.

On the other hand a human-only Arbites invites in-universe criticism that the Imperium is biased against its client species because it has human Arbiters judging non-humans. As with Inquisitors, most species would be livid if you had individual humans coming in and telling them what to do (as opposed to the hands-off, "don't break the few rules" borderline mutual protection pact most see it as), but didn't have the potential for the same to happen to a human world (particularly the Tau). Eldar have their "similar but different" Path of the Enforcer, but that seems to be more similar to planetary law enforcement. At the same time, it is difficult to see an Eldar as an Arbiter as opposed to an Enforcer.

Maybe Arbites are only found on worlds under direct control of the Administratum.

>>55493633
Yup. It was mentioned in a previous thread. We called them the Squat Mafia at first until we realized they had more in common with the Yakuza than the Mafia. They're the main source of crime in the Hubworld League. They think they're upholders of traditional values when they're really a bunch of protection racket runners, drug dealers, smugglers and pimps. The problem is that their members tend to be "good citizens" and "such upstanding members of the community" that the Arbites can't nail them on things, and those that do typically don't squeal.

There was a suggestion for a seedy den of scum and villainy a while back that we had suggested was run by the Demiurge. Since the Demiurge don't seem the type to do that anymore (they're travelling merchants, but the direction we have seemed to take them is more cyber-y). If the Demiurge end up in a state where such a seedy place is not their modus operandi, it should probably go to the Squat Yakuza. The idea that the place slips out of the Arbites' grasp because the inhabitants tend to collectively sell out anyone who breaks the rules (like trading with the Crones) because otherwise it ruins their playground sounds kind of squat-like.

I also nominate the name Pyrite Order for them, given how pyrite is unusual among minerals in that it grows inside and on top of other minerals. Kind of like a parasite (which the name sounds like).

>>55493956
So what good examples of serious writefaggotry do we have? Best I can think of is maybe the ending of The Long Odds.

1d4chan is editable again. I put up the Bjorn story (under "Once More Unto the Breach"), the Rainbow Serpent and associated writing, Sangyfag's Eversor story, the Destroyermen, the shrikes, and the bits on Lady Celestine. Will try to sort through the stuff on Cyrene Valantion if I get the chance. Anything else need uploading?

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>>55493956
>waifu
>shit
DELET

But seriously, the early threads were good stuff too.

>>55508635
Thank you

Cawl maybe?

>>55508635
You are a god among men.
>Anything else need uploading?
There is always the Preatoria stuff, unfinished as it is. Also sub-section maybe for the Order of the Old Tree.

>>55508109
There's also the question of psycology. Kroot, to name just one kind, would probably not be psychologically sound enough to become Judges with their greater tendency towards aggression.

Should the Path of the Enforcer have the same legal standing as a Judge?

>>55506654
Probably. I think Dornfag gave up on it.

>>55508148
I like this one best

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Writing#Iron_Within.2C_Iron_Without

But they are all very good

Has there in official fluff ever been mentioned what or where the Old One homeworld is?

if not is it/can it be the strange impossible world that orbits the Tyrant Star? The world where the Indigo Crow got his pointy rock.

>>55514168
I'd say it should be lost and remain so, the world for around the Tyrant Star left a mystery

>>55508148
Inquisition report on Taldeer was very entertaining

How big should the Bloodpact Empire be?

>>55514168
Seconding >>55515227. The Old One homeworld should probably be left a mystery. We have no clue about how old the Old Ones are, only that they are ridiculously old and were probably the first sapient lifeforms in the galaxy (except the C'tan, but the C'tan's claim for sapience as we know it at this time is rather dubious, given they were essentially space cows with little concept of what was going on around them), given how they were able to tinker with the galaxy as they wished.

One (bad) idea I had was that Earth was the Old Ones' homeworld, given the timeline (saurian creatures that would have become sapient some time in the Mesozoic) and to explain why all life in the galaxy is so similar (Old Ones used Terran biosphere to seed planets or as a stock planet). However, upon further reflection, I feel this is a bad idea, as one of the major themes of 40k (nobledark or vanilla) is that humans aren't necessarily the most special thing. Making Earth the Old Ones' homeworld puts humanity on a pedestal, something that is at odds with the themes of both canon and this AU. The Old Ones did mess with Earth in canon, but at best it would be a stock planet they took species and genes from for their experiments.

Also if the C'tan fought each other close enough to Earth for the Void Dragon's half-dead corpse to be dumped on Mars (and likely fucked up Earth's biosphere by proxy as well, given the timing of the War in Heaven), it's unlikely that Earth was the Old One homeworld. There is no way the Old Ones would let the C'tan get that close to their present or former homeworld without acting, and the C'tan wouldn't get that deep in enemy territory for a civil war.

>>55512090
That's why the Kroot, if they were brought on, would be brought on as third-party advisors. Like a CSI tech only on the front lines. Pic related.

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>>55517363
Dammit why didn't this load.

>>55517363
>>55517386
You start bringing Kroot into the police and strange shit is going to happen.

The police chicken-dog for example is an asset to any force. Ferocious, loyal, obedient, can understand loads of commands and can identify gene-stealer hybrids by scent.

Turns out it's a distant cousin to Corporal Jaazhanak. Not distant cousins as in Neanderthals are a cousin to Homo Sapiens, distant cousin as in they share a great-great-great grand parent and with a look at the family tree he could probably tell you who by name.

>>55517296
Earth being one of the planets they were interested in back in the day could work.

Take samples, twist and release into another environment and watch the results. Why? Because Old Ones that's why, it's just what they do. Not that anyone would much care. Void Dragon's imprisonment would have been in the final days, relatively speaking, of the Old Ones. Void Dragon's thrashing around when they tried to put him in the box killed the dinosaurs on the next planet just from splash damage.

But the real fear, and maybe it's a fear that drives the Silent King's mad search and wake up mission, is that if Void Dragon and his people can survive the millions of years asleep has anyone else? Necrons are playing with the scraps of toys that survived the Long Sleep, if something from their time has woken up with some real fraction of it's former glory they would be on a more level playing field and that's not a happy thought.

In a galaxy teeming with life it couldn't have been just Old Ones, Chaos, Necrons and C'tan. They would just have been the big players. But small and big are all relative. He won't admit it by the Necrons are brought low to their former majesty. His rule was not kind, if some of the former slaves are waiting to wake up and they have some of that old splendor with them then shit's going to go bad very fast.

>>55520688
I don't think the Silent King knows about the Void Dragon. The assumption might be he went to go confront the other C'tan about what they were doing and the next time he saw them the C'tan said they took Maggie out behind the space barn and shot him in the head.

Or does he? I forget what the Necron landing on Mars was interpreted as in this timeline. Silent King definitely knows where Outsider is and Nightbringer was, though.

>>55522498
He only sometimes knows about the Outsider, knowing about the Outsider can be very dangerous. Also, I'm not sure if the Necrons ever came to mars in this timeline, if they did its not been written up.

>>55524201
The Outsider was mentioned to possibly be the Silent King's check on the Void Dragon if things get really bad. Being a robot with no Warp presence, the Silent King knowing about the Outsider isn't as bad as a living being knowing about him, and it's possible he knows of the Outsider and how to find him in a more general sense rather than his exact position via quantum dickery and divination, which further reduces the issue. It was mentioned the Silent King does know he can use the Outsider as leverage by pointing him in a particular direction, but push too hard and the Outsider will get wise and end him.

Are there any 'Nids smart enough to become salient if removed from the Hive?

>>55520688
Or it could be that he just wants to finally get rid of Chaos and the C'tan.

There is only room for one being in this galaxy to be worshiped and he is it.

Given that in the elder pantheon Asuryan was a lot more powerful than any of the other gods and could order them about what was he?

Was he a surviving Old One like Be'Lakor but unlike Be'Lakor not some Palaeolithic throwback?

>>55526557
I don't think the Silent King wants to be worshipped as a god. Obeyed because he is the King yes, but he doesn't have the god complex surrounding, say, the Nightbringer.

>>55527413
This was already suggested. We decided not to go with it because it kind of cheapens the Eldar pantheon (plus Asuryan was around until M28 or so, you think he'd be more active if he was a non-dickish Old One).

>>55517206
It's an Empire that has risen and fallen quite often. It typically forms outside the Eye of Terror in the places the Astronomican doesn't reach, builds up unnoticed by conquering or colonizing everything around them in the unnoticed spaces and then draws the attention of the Imperium by attaching itself to the next Black Crusade.

Once the Black Crusade is turned away the Imperium turns it's attention to it's allies in real space and visits it's considerable ire upon them.

It keeps reappearing no matter how hard you stamp on it because Doombreed, Last Despot of Ursh, keeps rebuilding it whenever he scrapes himself back together.

It's 90% Khorne but not totally. It is a military dictatorship run by a Deamon-Prince of Khorne and so Khorne is wearing the pants in the relationship in the Bloodpat Empire but the other gods and their worship are not outlawed.

It is Ursh but more Khorne because Khorne back in Ursh was massively represented in the military and Bloodpact is Ursh: Military Dictatorship Edition.

So size depends on how far into the cycle of founding, growth, Black Crusade and collapse it is in. At the moment it's at it's height as it is in the Black Crusade phase.

I don't know if anything has been put forth yet but I'm going to suggest it's current incarnation is around the Hadex Anomaly. It occupies the worlds close enough to get protected by it but not too close as to get too fucked over by the temporal distortions.

Given that he's sprung up in a very defensible position this time Doombreed's latest empire might be around to stay.

I'm going to suggest ~150 inhabited worlds of varying type and magnitude. About the size of Vanilla Tau Empire complete with Chaos worshiping xeno citizens. If the Imperium wins this Black Crusade and goes to purge it it may be knocked down to 10-30 worlds closest to the Anomaly where good men can't go. Of course with Doombreed gone they will be fighting each other until his return.

Bupm

>>55528795
Did we ever decide on the name of the Last Despot of Ursh?

>>55528795
In canon the Blood Pact is supposed to be next door to the Sabbat Sector on the far end of the Segmentum Pacificus. That would make them close enough for the Interex and Kinebrach to start getting nervous.

I agree that the Blood Pact should be located in a place that's hard for the Imperium to get to. The obvious place to put them in Pacificus would be on the far side of the Eye, such that Blood Pact ships can raid into Pacificus but the Imperium can't chase them too far or else they end up between the Blood Pact and the Eye, the latter's denizens get territorial, and the Imperium gets it both ways from both Blood Pact and angry elves.

Only thing is the Sabbat sector (including Tanith) is supposed to be on the other side of the Segmentum Pacificus, in the middle of nowhere galaxy-wise. Maybe having the empire scrape itself together would be a good reason for it to be somewhere else.

>>55531479
Not yet, that's wide open.

>>55531479
I think it would be best if we left it unknown.

>>55531690
Is it Melvin?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KZI0ZX1DrRw

>>55531648
The remnants of Tanith are set up on New Tanith. No information has been given as to where that is so it's not a deciding factor.

so death worlds would they be terraformed

>>55535941
Yes, if they don't host a civilization that wants to keep it the way it is. Catachans, for example, have kept their biosphere of horrors, and charge the Adeptus Biologicus a premium for genetic samples, both from themselves and their wildlife. Salvar too is an inhospitable pit, but the local Salvar Order Mechanicus and the chem dogs that roam the wastes have never asked for terraforming because it would mean allowing the Martian Order anywhere near their star system, and they would prefer to keep their iridescent lands toxic and mind-altering.

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>>55528795
It's interesting to note that the early terran rivals of the Imperium were manic, bloody, Chaos/Sorcery obsessed ziggurat dwellers (Ursh) and morbid, technology wielding, mass produced bunker/Pyramid builders (Merika). The parallels between Ursh and Chaos at large were intentional, but as far as I know the similarity between Merika and the Necrons/Necrontyr was a coincidence. Its cool how it came out that way though.

>>55536224
Also assuming it can be terraformed. Fenris for example can't due to the orbit

>>55535941
>>55536224
>>55537706
A lot of the really hard-core Death Worlds probably can't be terraformed, only "blunted" to some degree. Fenris has it's ridiculous two-year orbit, Catachan has a jungle that just refuses to die, you can't fix Mordia without rearranging the system, even without the Dragon Mars is essentially a series of safe zones built on top of one of the largest labyrinth full of DaoT technology out there.

That said the quality of life is sometimes better. Fenris has developed to the point where the common pleb can have a decent life and actual "civilization" on Cretacia has been mentioned (though it's still a dinosaur-filled shithole that substituted human sacrifice with animal sacrifice).

That said the Imperium actually tries to improve the quality of life on worlds this time around and doesn't subscribe to the "conflict between us makes us strong" philosophy that vanilla!Russ, Khan, and the Istvaanians had. More of a "There are so many things trying to kill us right now why are we wasting bullets shooting at each other" kind of approach. Though in recent years infrastructure has had some trouble due to being hit by the tyranids, Necrons, Orks, and Chaos at the same time.

>>55536334
The Merikans were also imperialistic and jingoistic. Again kind of like Necrons.

>>55531690
>>55531961
Are we still running on the "if you know a Daemon Prince's mortal name it gives you power over them" rules? Because if we are it gives Doombreed a damn good reason for wanting his name forgotten, despite being the worst tyrant Earth has ever known.

>>55537706
Also Nocturne will never not be an overly tectonically active deathworld. But the locals claim that's a feature, not a bug.

>>55536334
Merika had pyramids?

>>55539903
>>55536334
I'm not seeing Merika as pyramid builders or Necrontyr if I'm honest.

Necrontyr were even up until the end highly cultured sophisticated aristocrats. Merika was a military junta reminiscent of the Enclave.

If anyone in the Merikas was going to be building pyramids it would be the Hy Brasil for the same reasons Ursh started doing so. They might have also seen themselves as the unbroken line of civilization from the ancient days to the stars. Like Ursh they had a responsibility to keep that last candle burning.

They were as a Strife Era nation younger than Ursh but they never fell to being fucking awful as Ursh either.

That pride would have been one more reason for not joining the early Imperium.

>>55469757
So in this universe Archmagos Belisarius Cawl is a racist, grumpy old semi-hermit Frankenstein's monster. I like it.

Also
>he was born from as the fruit from one of the bizarre half-animal gestation trees of Molech
Are the AdBio trying to look weird on purpose? Because they are succeeding marvellously.

>>55540629
The pyramids were also a reference to the Eye of Providence (a.k.a. the freaky eye-pyramid on the back of the U.S. dollar), as well as some conflating with the vault mega-structures that dotted the West, in addition to seeing themselves as heirs to civilization. IIRC their country's symbol was even the Eye of Providence. Fulgrimfag explained it better somewhere in a previous thread, will try to find it.

>>55541171
AdBio are meant to be weird. They are also big into experimentation and innovation compared to Mars, almost certainly the reason they left.

Making a tree that gives birth to the next generation is exactly what they would do. Especially considering that most of them must be incapable of reproduction with so much modifications.

How deep do the tunnels and underhives of Old Earth go?

>>55544744
It's getting close to being a shellworld, to the point of pumping magma from the mantle up the Daisy Chain to expand interior spaces and provide building material for the growing field of orbital stations. The moon is said to wade through a sea of ships and stations that flit around the Capital world.

Has anyone done a galaxy map for this setting? I was thinking about it and it would be really interesting to see one that includes the stuff the AU adds to the Imperium, the Crone stuff in the eye of Terror, Bloodpact, the assorted Survivor Civs, Cthonia, and various other stuff.

What else would be necessary to show?

>>55545031
One issue is that a lot of the planets have bare but pertinent geographic info. Like we know Xenobia (the Interex capital) is in the far Galactic West about as far as the Imperium got during the Great Crusade, but that's about it.

Too bad GW never released a map of the 30k galaxy.

>>55544837
Is there a physical limit to how far down you can dig and dwell?

>>55548897
Not so far as I know, as long as you have environmental controls there really isn't anything stopping you from hollowing out a world.

>>55550923
>What are extreme pressure and heat
I'll take Barriers to Subterranean Construction for 600, Alex

>>55550923
Eventually the pressure exerted on the rock from the rock above will keep closing your tunnles.

Krubera caves are the world's deepest at six and a half thousand foot.

I would assume that this is near that limit

>>55552528
>>55554137
That's natural caves, the situation is more along the lines of mega engineering

>>55554208
They would also have built up considerably increasing the effective depth.

>>55554137
According to Wikipedia the Krubera Cave is the worlds deepest at 7,208.

>>55544837
To be a shell world it doesn't need many layers of construction. At minimum it needs to be covered and have just one other layer. So at absolute bare minimum Old Earth would need a 2 floors covering the entirety of it's surface. It would be shit shellworld that nbody would take seriously or refer to as such but it would be a shellworld.

>>55544744
>>55548897
I think a limiting factor in what can be done would be how fucked is the Earth geologically speaking? Does it still have tectonic activity? If it does then building elaborate layers of caves two miles deep and spires twice as tall would be extremely dangerous and foolish as some great project like that would be always at risk of coming crashing down due to earthquake.

Not even mentioning the effect that continental drift would have on the orbital tethers and the daisy chain.

But it is also possible that Earth is by the end of the War of the Beast geologically dead. The Dark Age humans were big into geoenrineering and made a new continent for shits and giggles and The Beast flew another Earth sized planet with in close proximity to Earth to say nothing of what other horrors might have been inflicted in the earlier days of the Age of Strife.

Assuming it's all stopped and the only ground rumbles is settling, cooling rock Earth's magnetosphere would have to be artificial now. It could also be created as a side effect of all the technological activity on the surface and just under it and in later times the Daisy Chain would generate quite a hum.

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Anything like this?

>>55554454
Which would not increase weight because they are building with what they are digging up. If anything in 999M41 the Earths crust would be thicker but "fluffier".

>>55489654
I can see that happening. Then Oscar having one of the Dark Clerks do a check up on him. If this was a one off occurrence never happened before then all is well and he gets a warning and broken crockery.

If he had a habit of this he doesn't wake up one day.

If Angron had of seen that they would have had to bury him in a bucket.

>>55557101
It's kind of interesting how in this timeline Angron seems to be kind of the hero of the common man. Which kind of makes sense given his backstory and the fact he led a gladiator revolt in canon, but still.

He does not come off as a guy who would buy "the ends justify the means" for pointless cruelty. He lived through that in Nord Afrik, and he knew how much it sucked.

The common man still wouldn't want to be anywhere near him due to his anger issues, but given what he did to Ultramar's shithole you can see how people might have liked his knee-jerk bitch-slapping of tyrants.

>>55557895
Angron was a good example of the primarchs being flawed rather than perfect toy soldiers.

On the one hand he had a keen sense of justice, principles he wouldn't break and would never ask a man to do that what he was never willing to do himself.

On the other hand he would never go with another strategy if a head on charge was possible, was terrible at diplomatic attempts and had tended to have terrible plans for rebuilding the societies he knocked over which made him a fast acting but expensive primarch.

There was also the point that he, Khan and Corax were former slaves. They were living proof that merit and effort would be rewarded in the Imperium. Downtrodden slaves would be reluctant to rise up and support and Imperial invasion if they just saw it as exchanging one cruel and uncaring master for another but when you can point to a fair fraction of the overall leadership of the Imperium being former slaves then things get different.

>>55555360
Maybe something like but make it 3 miles and with more caves. It's not a world with a lot of caves, it's a world made of layers.

Bump

Was it ever decided it the Watchers have set up shop in the dark places of Old Earth?

File: shell world 2.jpg (374 KB, 1598x1354)

374 KB JPG

Is it getting there?

>>55561781
It's a rumor, but neither confirmed nor denied. The only people who know what the Watchers are doing for sure are the Dark Angels and their descendants, as well as the Inquisitors who are either interested in studying all Xenos or paranoid about everyone and have found out through their own means.

For all we know, they don't have a base on Old Earth and they're simply breeding on Dark Angel ships like the Rock as a migrant species. But no one knows for sure (and if one uses Nobledark Imperium as a DH conversion, it could go either way).

>>55563786
Mmmm yes. This is getting good. I like that you added the termite-style boreholes to get air into the deeper layers. If you need stuff to fill in the caverns, it's said that the caverns contain a lot of algae hydroponics and power plants. Perty designed them in case of a siege, but they also provide a good staple food for Earth's people. It also tends to be what the homeless and destitute eat.

Uh. Space sharks?

>>55563786
It's definitely going places, now all it needs is a smiling sun in the corner and tiny simulated suns in each of the caverns.

Also random stuff:
"In the past two weeks, our station received a number of questions about the state of Terra. One of our viewers asked about the question of how closely Terra has adhered to the designs of Perturabo, and presumably, later military tacticians.

Post-War Of The Beast, the Primarch worked nonstop to rebuild the homeworld into an aesthetically pleasing series of high-rise apartments, offices, concealed macroweaponry, and interlocking, brutally efficient killing fields all in the Art Deco style. This is a fact taught in countless Scholas across the galaxy, but it begs the question of whether modern Terra is still up to the standards of the 30th millenium. It's clear that over the last ten thousand years Terra has changed to serve its place in the Imperium, with infrastructure like the Daisy Chain growing in a haphazard manner and the chaos of Hive Cities expanding and merging, leading some to proclaim it a so-called 'shellworld'. Is Terra still as defensible against a direct assault as it was in the past? Are its caverns and spires now full of dwellers and administrators, and its protection now provided by Luna and/or the grand fleet that continuously patrols Sol?"
- Sincerely, a concerned Imperial Guardsman."

What exactly is the current state of Terra's surface? It doesn't seem to place as much significance as it used to on hardened defensive fortifications and bunkers during the 42nd millenium (w/ the exception of the Imp. Palace), and the fact that it's a shellworld would likely meant that every time a heavy weapon is fired, the gunners would have to take into account the possibility of collateral damage, etc etc. Is its defense dependent on the disorganization of the surface to bog down any enemy invaders and perhaps a huge fleet in orbit to beat away invaders and land reinforcements where needed?

>>55568920
It has internal garrisons and military egress passages, and most large projects have been kept to the standards of the Iron Warriors, but its become much more busy and haphazard, losing the perfectly planned battle grounds of Perturabo's original designs to the sheer multitude and magnitude of structures. The internal spaces honeycombing the crust into the cooling, shaken core of the old world are similarly majestic, but were undertaken in a great variety of styles as their creation was put to the many successive Casteleans of Old Earth, who hailed from throughout the Imperium's broad reach.

>>55425577

Tks! ;)