So to get the conversation started, what areas of the universe need the most fleshing out? The Orks seem like a big one and doing some more with the Silent King-affiliated Necrons would probably be good.

>>57662016
We still have a couple of Primarchs unfinished, although there are a couple of people working on that already.

>>57662016
I'm actually kinda curious about Ork(Brainboy)/Necron relations, since the Necron Star Empire and the Imperium seem to have a handful of Ork buffer states between them.

>>57663571
It's interesting to note that from the Necrons' perspective, they slept through the entire period where the Orks were considered idiots.

To them, the Orks were always a highly organized adversary. Yes, the Krork were more organized because the lizard wizards didn't tolerate team-killing, but it made little difference to the Necrons because they were the ones getting orked.

If you told Szarekh about the War of the Beast, he'd probably respond "Yes, Krork do that. Why are you so surprised?"

Still, you have to wonder what was going through their heads when they woke up. Yes Orikan did say the empires of the Old Ones' servant races would be shattered when they woke up, but what the hell happened to turn the Orks and Eldar against each other. Why is there another giant Warp Construct out there, what happened to the previous four, and why are people worshipping them as gods? What did you people do to the galaxy while we were gone?

>>57664366
Damn younger races, we take a nap for a few millennia and we come back to find the house trashed and you've invented a new evil sex god to go with the other three evil gods.

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>>57666175
Yeah, and we don't even have dicks anymore (or did we have them in the first place?) so we can't participate in the sexening.

I always liked the idea of the Silent King saying the following when meeting actual Chaos worshippers for the first time.

"I have killed gods before. I assure you your pantheon will be no different."

>>57662016
There's a section for Cadian Kasrkin and Stormtroopers that is incomplete in Imperial Forces. I don't think we've had a lot of Necron-Chaos interactions either, and we've got notes and plenty of discussion about the Ordo Securitas and Adepta Securitas, but we don't yet have a write-up for those organizations.

>>57663571
>>57664366
How big is the Necron Star Emprie in comparison the Imperium? Is it comparable to Ultramar in scale?

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>>57667466
>Securitas
We had someone doing a write-up of Securitas history and the nature of their augmentations, but I think they dropped out of the project. Most of their previous stuff was on Pastebin and I am not sure if it was saved.

>Is it comparable to Ultramar in scale?
Bigger. See on the map where it says Oruscar, Sautekh, Mephrit, Nekthyst, and the like are? That's the center of the Star Empire.

Some of it might be shifted around a bit compared to canon, but it is slightly more continuous. Slightly. The Imperium's problem with the Necrons is that they just don't exist as an empire that you can point to on a map. Any world can turn out to be a Tomb World under your feet, and a "new" dynasty can spring up anywhere. One could argue even the Silent King doesn't know the exact numbers since he only knows if a Dynasty survived if they respond to him.

I think we decided to move Gidrim closer to the galactic core, to explain why the White Scars and Ilic Nightspear were the ones who responded when tyranids showed up on Zahndrekh's doorstep. It would also explain how that colony of Tau got into Gidrim space.

For unknown reasons, Khorne has always had a strange fascination with nanotech. Perhaps it is because a nanite swarm is a weapon that flows like blood, or perhaps it is because the nanobots attack by entering the body and attacking the very flesh and blood itself. Regardless, Khornates often seem drawn to ancient nanotechnology, whether human or non-human in origin.

Nanotech weaponry was also popular with the corrupted Men of Iron during the Age of Strife, which formed the basis of abominations as omniphages. In 476.M41, a Brotherhood of Grey Knights led by Brother Ordan were on the trail of a Khornate cult looking for a nanotech weapon the cultists rather unimaginatively called the Bloodtide. After chasing the Khornates across several worlds via the Webway as the cultists pieced together the clues as to where the Bloodtide was hidden, the Grey Knights finally cornered the cultists on the on the world of Van Horne, the planet on which the Bloodtide had been buried.

When they emerged from the Webway Gate, the Grey Knights had initially hoped to join forces with Imperial military assets on the planet with and organize an impromptu quarantine and defense against the Bloodtide. However, the only Imperial forces present on the planet besides the Grey Knights were the PDF and a Commandery of about 250 Sisters of Battle, who were on the planet investigating reports of a separatist cell, necessitating a change of plans. Making contact with the Sisters, led by Preceptor Mariel, and the PDF, the Grey Knights explained (at least as much as they could) they were hunting a Chaotic weapon of mass destruction that they believed was going to be activated under one of the largest cities on the planet.

>>57670607
They told the Sisters and the PDF that they needed them to sound the evacuation order and work with the planet’s government to make preparations for the evacuation of the planet in the event of the worst case scenario. Meanwhile, the Grey Knights would enter the city and try and hunt down the cultists before they could activate the weapon. Preceptor Mariel wasn’t happy with the idea of being relegated to evacuation duty. She argued that it would make more sense for the PDF and Sisters to join the Grey Knights in hunting down the cult, and stop the disaster before it even began. Ordan responded it was either put out the call to evacuate and potentially only lose one city, or risk it and lose all the cities.

As the Grey Knights entered the outer districts of the city, they heard a horrific scream and were buffeted by what seemed like a wind of metallic dust. They were too late. The Bloodtide had been activated. The Grey Knights, being clad in fully sealed power armor were immune to the Bloodtide effects, but the people around them were not. The civilians did not die cleanly, screaming in agony and clawing at their bodies as blood oozed from every pore, bleeding far more blood than any human should be able to produce as their internal organs were turned to liquid by what amounted to synthetic ebola. As opposed to the omniphages, which were intended as a form of nanotech Exterminatus, an intentional “grey goo” scenario, the Bloodtide was meant to kill people in the most horrific way possible. It was a nanotech terror weapon.

>>57670633
It wasn’t until the Grey Knights had reached the inner parts of the city that Ordan had realized he had made a mistake. He had only expected to have to fight the warlord and his hangers on, thinking their activation of the Bloodtide and the subsequent carnage was meant to be an end in and of itself. However, he hadn’t expected the warlord to use that blood for something else. The warlord had offered the blood of the dead as a sacrifice to Khorne, and given that quite a lot of people had died in one of the most Khorne-pleasing manners possible the warlord had managed to summon a literal army of Khornate daemons, which could travel the planet much faster than the Bloodtide ever could. The timetable for the total devastation of the planet had just moved up.

The Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters arose from the blood as if crawling out of their own reflection. Normally most people would be cursing their decisions and their fate in this situation, but not Ordan and the members of the Brotherhood. They were Grey Knights. If they had to die, so be it, they would take as many of the daemons as they could with them. However, for all their bravery and defiance, they only numbered 150, and did not have the numbers to take on the Khornate daemons, who simply dogpiled them. Ordan believed he was to meet his end when he was pinned by a Bloodmaster, when a melta blast from behind Ordan hit the daemon and melted its face to slag.

>>57670829
Looking up, Ordan saw the form of Preceptor Mariel and her Sisters firing into the horde of Khornate daemons. Ordan demanded to know why the Preceptor was there, and why they weren’t helping sound the order to evacuate the planet. Mariel responded with a cheeky response about how they had already handled it. Regardless of their disregard to stay back, the Sisters provided exactly what the Grey Knights needed right now, which was numbers. The best way to fix the situation right now was to charge forward to the Bloodtide as fast as possible, which the Grey Knights did, the Sisters following close behind to provide supporting fire and even the Grey Knights’ odds against the daemons. As their melta guns ran out of power, they switched to their flamers, and then those ran out of fuel, their bolters.

However, the Sisters were not immune to the Bloodtide’s effects. As the Grey Knights and Sisters pushed forward towards the center of the destruction, increasing numbers of Sisters fell, blood bursting from their pores as the nanotech breached the seals of their less advanced power armor and entered their bodies. The Sisters were more resistant to the Bloodtide than any unaugmented human, with some of their enhancements having been designed by Isha herself, and still they fell. Mariel herself managed to hold on until the Grey Knights made it to the Bloodtide itself before she collapsed. When the Grey Knights reached the center they found the Bloodthirster Ka’jagga’nath, who had been pleased by the slaughter wreaked by the now-dead cultists, and sought dominion over the Bloodtide itself. The Grey Knights protested this decision with warp fire and power swords, and after great sacrifice managed to banish the Bloodthirster. The Bloodtide, which had been bound to Ka’jagga’nath’s will when it had been activated, was disrupted by its banishment and returned to an inert form, waiting for a new master.

>>57671095
After the remaining Khornate daemons were purged and the city placed in quarantine, Ordan met with the planetary governor to briefly inform him of a heavily redacted version of the situation. In essence, a Chaotic weapon had been detonated in the city, the city was quarantined, and no one should be allowed to go near it. An experienced Inquisition team should arrive shortly to take the weapon to Ganymede, but the city was probably corrupted to the core and should be razed. The governor congratulated Ordan on their victory, only to receive an unexpected reply.

“You call this victory?” Millions of Imperial citizens are dead. An entire Commandery of Securitas, some of the bravest and most selfless warriors I have ever had the privilege to fight alongside, are no longer with us. There are no victories in this universe, governor. Only scales of defeat.”

Thoughts?

>>57671113
Not bad. Certainly read worse.

>>57671113
As an addendum, these were the goals I had in writing this.

1) The first, which was what inspired this in the first place, was to muse on Khorne's strange fascination for nanotechnology. Though when doing the research it turns out those separate instances of nanotech refer to the same thing. The Bloodtide's history is weird According to Hunt for Voldorius it's basically a non-malicious Man of Iron that wants to be left the hell alone and wanted the Raven Guard and White Scars to mercy kill it so it couldn't be used to kill people by Voldorius. Wot. So needless to say I split the two up here.
2) Show what the Grey Knights are generally like in this universe (use Webway, people know they exist but don't know the details of what they do beyond fight the really nasty stuff that happens when shit gets real) and to a lesser degree the Securitas.
3) Detail how the infamous "paint" incident went down here (though I heard rumors that GW had retconned it to something that is kind of similar to this).
4) Point out a fact that is easy for readers of Nobledark to miss. Even when good people triumph, it usually comes at a cost of numerous lives and great sacrifice. Out of universe people might consider it a victory if no one named died, but those living in the universe wouldn't see it that way. So, nobledark then.

>>57671113
>>57671277
Minor quibble: an entire brotherhood of Grey Knights would be overkill for this scenario; in canon a whole brotherhood of just over 100 GKs can face Angron and a dozen Bloodthirsters and it sounds like there's only one Bloodthirster in this scenario, even if he has a horde. Also, the Grey Knights wouldn't send a brotherhood if they came in thinking the Bloodtide was still dormant and there would be no daemonic presence, a couple squads would be more than enough to handle any cultist activity.

>>57673172
I was going off of what we said in previous thread where a Brotherhood is 100-250 Grey Knights in an organization of 3000-7500. I couldn't find the canon term for what a 100-man kill team of Knights would otherwise be called. Hence why the Sisters being there was so important, it tripled their numbers even if the Sisters couldn't fight in melee as well as the Knights.

I was thinking Bloodletters and low-tier Bloodthirsters (apparently Bloodthirsters have a ranking system, but it doesn't seem to be discussed in canon), especially since Bloodletters have been known to kill Grey Knights. Nothing like Ka'Bandha or Ang'grath. The one who tried to claim the Bloodtide would be the only big name.

>>57671113
>>57671277

"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one."

It's pretty well-done, certainly better than the grimderp mess that is the canon alternative involving the Grey Knights and SoBs, and the sober reminder that the Nobledark Imperium still has to bear horrific casualties despite its best efforts, was interesting. This is more personal nitpicking, but the fight between the GKs and Ka'jagga'nath felt rather anticlimactic, especially considering how many GKs and Adepta Securitas were involved with how little detail was put into it.

>>57671113
definitely answers the call for nobledark battles

Bamp for young thread.

>>57673608
Disclaimer: about to get kinda spergy about power levels, so feel free to disregard

No, you're right in that the nomenclature for 100+ GKs would be a brotherhood, but I was talking about logic of the actual number of GKs involved. In canon, the full brotherhood is deployed because the Bloodtide is fully active and they're responding to the ensuing daemonic incursion. Here, it seems they're chasing a highly dangerous group of cultists at the beginning, a task for which a whole brotherhood would be complete overkill. Given the myriad of daemonic shenanigans going on at any given moment, I think the GKs would only deploy a brotherhood a big incursion is confirmed because they simply don't have the manpower to respond to everything otherwise.

Also, 250 SoBs would be a solid but maybe not gamechanging bump for a full GK brotherhood. In The Emperor's Gift, it shows the GKs get exponentially stronger in groups because they can pool their psychic powers to the extent that 109 of them can AOE explode "thousands" of lesser daemons and severely damage greater ones. 250 SoBs is roughly equal to 80 SMs given our 3:1 scaling, so if we're saying 150 GKs are getting overrun then it's hard to see the SoBs managing to swing the tide.

You're right in that Bloodletters can take down GKs. One on one I would say the average GK wins handily, but 2-3 Bloodletters is probably enough to take down the GK 5/10 times, since Bloodletters are roughly 1:1 with average SMs in melee (ignoring the fact that SMs have guns).

I was reading through the notes on the Squat and I really don't get the motivation behind making them regular humans from high gravity worlds who are pettily defined as abhumans rather than bona fide abhumans who are treated more reasonably. It seems to be going in the wrong direction for Nobledark, y'know?

>>57675322
It was to show that the AdMech are petty cunts when they don't get their way.

Also there isn't the massive stigma in the wider galaxy attached to Abhumans. One (possibly 3 depending on how you define it) Primarchs were abhumans and one of the current High Council of the Imperium is an abhuman.

And It's nobledark. If everyone got along perfectly with no petty squabbling it would quickly turn into Noblebright and we already have Brighthammer for that.

>>57675749
That seems like two ideas from two different people that have been awkwardly melded together. If abhumans aren't stigmatised, how is putting the tag on squats a petty act? It would be like trying to avenge yourself on construction workers by categorizing them as administration.

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>>57671113
Is good.

It also makes it so that the rather stupid Vanilla Knights doing blood rituals and sacrificing SoB never happened as I think this was that event.

It also gives another thing for the Ganymede Vaults which is good as those things need filling.

Although given that it is nanotech, and deamonically tainted nanotech at that, there is a distinct possibility that Ka’jagga’nath may still have made off with a fairly heft slice of it.

Given the implications of Grey Goo scenario it should have to be mentioned that it was non-replicating nanotech otherwise what you have is an infinite ammo one-shot planet killer weapon.

The thing was that given the nature of the DaoT the Bloodtide might originally have been classed as medical equipment in much the same way that the giant things on Medusa are classed as gardening equipment.

>>57675322
part of it is actually having the Imperium be nuanced enough in outlook to bother with a distinction between abhumans and physiologically divergent humans, and show how between the Man of Stone modifications from human galactic colonization and many millennia to get weird on isolated worlds the difference between human and abhuman is more gradient than dichotomy.

Seperate was the inclusion of Mars' slight to the Squats, which came later as part of discussions of Squats/Mechanicus relations because the former won't recognize the former's pretensions to monopoly, and the subsequent grief given by the toasters in red.

>>57675823
It's an insult by the AdMech.

Most of the rest of the galaxy might not see much of a problem with being classed as abhuman but the AdMech do because the AdMech are arseholes and probably intended it as a racist slur.

It's essentially Mars calling the Hubworlders a bunch of niggers.

>>57675823
Mars has its own outlook on galactic politics, and ultimately in both their outlook and that of the squats, calling someone something they aren't with intent to control how they are received by a third party is insulting in its own right.

>>57675920
>>57675930
>>57675938
OK. Follow-up on that: why the change to the Squat lore so that they aren't a human subspecies the breeds true (by whatever name you want to call it)? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with going from Grim- to Nobledark, especially as Ratlings & Ogryns didn't get the same treatment.

>>57675966
Because they aren't physically divergent enough in proportion to seem as such.

The thing that sets them apart is that they are short and broad. You would probably get this if a regular human grew up in high gravity. There is not real change beyond that.

Their space dorf thing is more of a shared culture than physical.

>>57676153
Maybe I didn't explain the question properly? In the 40k lore, they are physically divergent enough to be a separate sub-species. Aside from their short stature, they have a high degree of manual dexterity and are extremely long-lived without imperial life-extension technology. These traits breed true regardless of environment.

In NI, you've ditched all of that. Why?

>>57676212
Manual dexterity could be acquired via practice and the Vanilla Imperium is a lot more stringent in regards to what legally constitutes a real person based on notions of purity.

The only thing that has been dropped is the inherent longevity that is regained through their universal healthcare.

This universal healthcare is also what keep their numbers low (because dorfs are never the most populous people in a setting) and stops their numbers from recovering quickly (because dorfs are, whilst not always a dying people, certainly not fast breeders).

It keeps them healthy but not young.

It also allows for an additional reason for their poor diplomatic relations with Mars beyond that they won't kneel to the Olympus Mons Brotherhood. Due to not being able to field as many soldiers or recover lost numbers as quickly relative to the population they make use of many robots.

Mars claims this a violation of The First Commandment. Hubworlds claim that their creations aren't smart enough to count as Silica Animus. Mars points out that degrees of heresy is still heresy. Hubworlders tell them to try and do something about it. Mars autistically screeches.

>>57676316
>The only thing that has been dropped is the inherent longevity
You keep saying this, but it's not true. None of the traits mentioned now breed true, they're just environmental accidents. There doesn't seem to be anything saying that one of the Hubworlds can't be inhabited by unusually tall short-lived butter-fingered humans who are none the less "Squats".

Why was this done?

>>57661171
So how amoral were the Old Ones?

>>57677223
Saw the galaxy as their personal science lab/zoo to do whatever they wanted in. Probably weren't wrong, were the most powerful species the galaxy had ever seen by miles and kept things like the tyranids at bay.

Among their amorality, outside of the War in Heaven, you have their treatment of the Necrontyr. The Old Ones knew about the Necrontyr. From day one. They knew there was a C'tan inside the Necrontyr's sun and their response (like it was to anything that threatened them) was to go "neat".

The Old Ones were lonely and wanted companionship, and wanted a race that was near enough their level that they could talk to. They figured that between the Necrontyr's short generation time and the fact that the blazing radiation of their sun would give them sufficient impetus to get off the planet as fast as possible. After that they might fix any long-term radiation issues with genetic engineering and cybernetics (laughingMag'ladroth.holo).

Then the Necrontyr got out of their star system and found the Old Ones waiting for them. They didn't take it well. It was like trying to teach someone to swim by letting their descendants drown for 6000 years. Then the Necrontyr ask for help with immortality. Old Ones have the social acumen of a dumpster and say the Necrontyr society isn't ready for immortality (to be fair, they're kind of right).

Also there is the whole intentionally created Khorne thing during the War in Heaven. No, not accidentally, but intentionally, effectively cloning him from the metaphorical spiritual DNA of Khaine, Gork and Mork, and the other servant races war gods. And the fact that their "gods" were effectively supercomputers to them. The servant races weren't smarter but they made more mentally stable gods because they gave a shit.

First time posting. I want to congratulate all of you for this interesting setting. So let´s see if I a can help a little. My problem is whit the astrinomicon, in the Imperium psykers are not used to feed it. So there are a lot of these guys running around. So...
A) Is the magic of Hollywood. Pro: Is magic Con: Is magic
B) The people who are connected to the flashlight are professionals specially trained, conditioned and augmented for this work. The surplus is diverted to local sectors to be trained in other jobs. Pro: Without the corpse-emperor that is possible Con: There are a lot of minor psykers waiting to be corrupted
C) The astronomicon don´t feed in them, but drain their psionic potential. This is painful, life treating and maddening, but after some grueling month of torture, this guy can have a normal life. So there are always volunteers for this job. Pro: Take away the problem Con:???
So what do you think?

>>57678599
Astronomican does drain psykers IIRC. The Imperium just doesn't brutalize them and have holes drilled in their skull. They aren't burned as fuel but maintaining a psychic ball of energy big enough to be seen 50k light years away drains your life force. Not as fast as canon, but your lifespan is drastically shortened.

Black Ships still go around picking up psykers. Point is to take them to a Schola Rhetora station (preferrably on Old Earth) to get them to control their powers and hopefully be soulbound or sanctioned. While they are there the glory of powering the Astronomican is greatly played up, talking about how heroic a duty it is and whatnot. So you get quite a few minor psykers steered towarda that path.

So it is kinda similar to what you have.

yeah.. so A+B. Thanks, but what I want to convey is that there are a lot of psykers around. I feel that is too much. In Vanilla around 1000 guys are killed to feed the emperor. Here the tenure of a psyker is between 6 months and 30 years. Is not this a problem?

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>>57673780
Completely, 100% agree on the fight with Ka’jagga’nath was an anti-climax. Got to that point and then completely blanked on what to do. Left it the way it was in case someone wants to expand on the Ka’jagga’nath fight (which they are completely free to do, by the way).

>>57675164
Fair enough. We can reduce the numbers. Wanted a small enough number that the GKs would get overwhelmed without backup but wasn’t sure how many people a Grey Knight kill team would compose of, especially since in this AU the appropriate number of Grey Knights to throw at a problem is “as many as is needed”.

From a tactical perspective, the idea is that the Grey Knights carved a path while the Sisters applied sufficient (but not enuff) dakka from behind to keep the daemons from overwhelming them. It would be the equivalent of a Space Marine squad charging forward with stormtroopers providing covering fire, though at higher power levels.

Made sure to mention the Bloodletter that pinned Ordan was one of the “elite” ones (Bloodmaster) to explain how he managed to get pinned seeing as a GK vs Bloodletter matchup is not always one-way.

>>57675909
The omniphages are the planet killers. Ollanius Pius in Horus Heresy described the Men of Iron as dumping them on a planet and watching them strip every living thing to the bone. The Bloodtide is a terror weapon. Meant to kill people in as gruesome a manner as possible to sow fear and panic. The idea that it was once medical equipment that was repurposed as a murder weapon is highly plausible.

If it was a medical tool that would explain why in canon it didn’t want to kill people.

>>57678863
I think 6 months is the average. 30 years are the really, really lucky suckers that manage to survive all the fluctuations that kill everyone else.

>>57678728
>>57678599
There was mention 2 or 3 threads ago that the elder helped refine the lighthouse and spent a long time tweaking it. Wraithbone surge protectors, big buffering jars, filters to scoop out the imps, lenses to shift the useless spectrum/flavours into the usable range and other little refinements.

Prospero sent a big, greatest quality, purpose made focusing crustal to replace the impure chunk of natural quartz they were using.

Average lifespan of a career choir member is now ~30 years rather than ~18 months it otherwise would be. ~40 is you factor out first week deaths of people who were clearly unsuitable.

Point is it's now a legitimate career rather than a death sentence.

>>57676372
We explained why

>>57678863
>>57679394
>>57679957
I think we may all be talking at cross-purposes here. It makes sense that psykers would live longer so it's not seen as an outright death sentence (in canon psykers last weeks and they are in horrible agony the whole time rather than just weakened and drained).

However, 30-40 years kind of eliminates the Nobledark nature of the sacrifice. Here you have people who are literally giving their lives so that civilization can function normally. Considering time of transit in Black Ships and the amount of training, they would be at least in their forties or fifties by the time they died. That's not all that big a difference when the average pleb can't afford rejuvenants and dies about the same age if not slightly later than modern day.

It sounds like it's a quibble over numbers (hello Commorragh).

>>57676212
>>57676316
>>57676372
>Why is being classified being abhuman a bad thing?
This would also have been early enough in the Great Crusade that there were still some tensions over abhumans. People were horrified by the Primeval Ogryn and Beastmen and there was a sizeable chunk of AdBio who suggested that they just wipe them out before the Steward stepped in. Also it’s a poke to the Hubworlders’ pride and an annoyance whenever they have to do official paperwork.

>Manual dexterity
It’s been pointed out that the Eldar’s agility is as much due to age and experience as it is to natural ability. It’s possible for humans to do the same (and humans sort of do IRL), but for most people (as in, no rejuvenants) their body deteriorates from age before they see significant returns, whereas Eldar of the same age are just hitting their prime. Grey Knights run on this principle, level grinding through several centuries of experience through the most brutal training regimens imaginable on top of their normal anti-Chaos stuff.

Hubworlders, who get old and wrinkly but don’t get muscle and bone degeneration and across the board live twice as long as skinnies, would have a similar effect going on, especially with manual dexterity since they do that every day.

Bonus is it means that the old fogies actually have a point when they say they can do delicate tasks better than any young whippersnapper.

>Longevity
It’s also possible that the longevity is just that the Imperium doesn’t understand how the heck the Hubworlders could live so long. The Imperium couldn’t even figure out how half of Hubworlder technology worked in canon anyway. The Hubworlders could create stable Warp Cores but when the AdMech tried it they contaminated a planet.

And if we want to really jump through loopholes it merely says a lifespan of 300 years is normal. It doesn’t say whether it is genetic or medicinal.

>>57676372
The Hubworld Navy are mostly normal looking.

Ok.. this is going to sound really stupid. But a made a typo, it was B+C.

>>57678124
It's also possible that they were cultivating other species for entering traits like less fucked up Qu fro All Tomorrows.

>>57675909
Now all we need is to know what the Deamonic steam train is doing

>>57679394
If it is in Ganymede now then it will at least have someone to talk to.

It doesn't know anything useful about tue DaoT beyond the name of it's parent mega-corp. It can't even into medical anymore as it had to be mutilated to become the Bloodtide.

But you can have a conversation with it.

>>57683268
When I wrote the Bloodtide thing I thought it would make more sense to make them separate things, especially since the portrayals of the two between Voldorius and the GK codex differ so dramatically.

>>57668196
This now raises the question of does the Silent King and his vassals keep mortals as subjects or is it strictly a Necrontyr only party?

>>57685667
IIRC the Silent King and his vassals are strongly against non-Necrons being in their territory, except for holding pens where they await biotransference experiments. If there are any that haven't been detected, the Necrons respond poorly when they do discover intruders.

>>57684534
Well it would also be an interesting story to see chaos cultists try to use a robot/AI equivalent to a DAoT cellphone that very much does not want any part in their shenanigans, and would prefer to keep the disproportionately strong anti-chaos buffers its master installed millenia ago (as eldar empire spam filters) that have kept it relatively safe all this time.

>>57688501
It would, but that's more impetus to have Voldorius and the GK's Bloodtide's separate. From a thematic perspective, it's difficult to juggle "DaoT Man of Iron that wants nothing to do with Chaos despite cult's best efforts" with "horrible weapon of mass destruction that was used to kill millions and was controlled by a Bloodthirster". Tonal whiplash.

>>57687490
Biotransference is yet another example of just how expendable Star Empire sees individuals. In the event that the Silent King activates the Cadian Pillars they die too, and yet that is a perfectly acceptable trade for everyone involved because it perfects the biotransference for everyone else when a sapient species arises after the War in Heaven.

As for the primitives? They were going to die anyway. Might as well make themselves useful before they die.

>>57689042
yeah, I'm in agreement with you

bampan

>>57689140
>>57688501
>>57683268
We also have a whole lot of talkative things in the Ganymede vaults. Legienstrasse, Apep, technically Jaq Draco. Reluctant neutral "fuck your Chaos" Man of Iron sounds like a great idea for a story, but it'd probably be good to have some things in there that are more inert or at least can't be negotiated with (yes, I just realized I said Apep can be negotiated with).

>>57689042
>the Silent King activates the Cadian Pillars
I don't like having a single, specific action like this as the Necron's win condition or indeed anyne's win condition. For starters, if the Cadian Pillars are capable of this, why didn't they use them during the War in Heaven?

No, if the Necrons want to kill everything, I think they should have to do it the old fashioned way: one planet at a time.

Could the Space Sharks, Mentor Legion, Thunderbolt warriors be 2nd legion?

>>57691461
Chaos' win condition is technically two individual actions: kill the Emperor and kidnap Isha back. Making sure the Star Empire and tyranids don't eat everything is secondary.

Without the Cadian Pillars the Necrons have no way to meaningfully threaten Chaos. If they have to kill all life one planet at a time, there is always going to be life out there to feed the Chaos gods. Life after the War in Heaven got to a pretty comparable point to what you would see if Necrons did things the old-fashioned way, Enslavers pouring out and killing everything, and yet enough life survived that Khorne, Malal, Tzeentch, and Nurgle made it through.

How long would it take for Necrons to even kill all life in the galaxy anyway? Even with Ludicrous Speed ships, would they have to turn around and have another go because new life has emerged in their wake? Of course, if the Necrons really wanted to kill everyone quick, they could just get everyone on the Oruscar Dynasty's homeworld and just slap the Stellar Orrery. Yes the Phareon of Oruscar will be pissed and the galaxy will be a mess to end all messes, but it'll be over.

Cadian Pillars just mean the Necrons get to be extra-thorough. Everyone with a soul dies. No exceptions. No hidden enclave of life outside their reach (like the pre-contact Kroot or Tau).

On the other hand, said goal is easier said than done. Going straight from the Necron Star Empire, you have to go through the Imperium, two Ork empires, then take the most heavily fortified planet in the galaxy, and then hold it. There's no guarantee the Necrons know how to work the Cadian Pillars since they were made by Mag'ladroth as a psychic dampener that happened to double as a device of galactic genocide, so it might take time to activate. So it might end up like the Vortex battle in Total Warhammer 2 where the Necrons have to take Cadia and hold it long enough to figure out how the pylons work while getting dogpiled by everyone else with the exception of tyranids.

>>57691916
Carcharodons are Night Lords.

Not sure what you mean by Thunderbolt warriors. Did you mean Thunder Warriors? Those predate the naming of the primarchs.

Speaking of Necrons, a thought based on the mention of terror tactics last thread...

"Your warriors, the ones your commoners call your, eh...Angels of Death. I assume they are called these things because they make use of fear and terror tactics?"

"I suppose. Inspiring fear isn't their primary purpose but it is something that they do rather well. An old general of mine once said that fear and terror are just another weapon."

"Hm. My warriors feel no such things. I do not permit them to."

- Dialogue between Oscar and the Silent King, circa M40

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>>57691977
>Carcharodons are Night Lords.
This is the lazy answer and shrinks the universe as opposed to expanding it. They could also be Raven Guard BUT to give them proper honor would be to make them their own thing thus 2nd legion.

Back in RT Space Sharks, Rainbow warriors "now thunderbolt warriors" and Mentor legion where original Legions.

Here is my version:
After the Horus Heresy the 2nd Legion split itself into three chapters of equal power, each a temptest behind observative dead eyes.
The mentors, where the most wise, reserved and logical.
The Space Sharks whom they acted at the right time and moment in the most brutal way. Masters of the void.
The Thunderbolt warriors -rainbow warriors - perhaps the most human of them all, curageous beyond all.

Tought they may share similar geneseed, their culture and customs differ a lot. They all protect their home sector and have known to brought woe to the malestorm many times. They enforce the Imperial Law and are known to despise temptation.

My idea for necrons it's the following:

The mother fuckers where great scientists but their problem is that they where too fragile and didnt last too long. When they enslaved the C'tan, these fuckers told them how to become immortal:
Once you are old enough, transfer your mind to a body of metal, in that way you will be preserved forever!
So what happened here is that the Necron population exploded! The fuckers fucked like rabbits before turning themselves into metal. In this way they trully became a very powerful race in such a short time.

The hybernation was necessary for them because the C'tan started to kill themselves and they noticed that something was going wrong. They where beggining to loose their minds and become more monotone, loosing their personalities. So the Necrons decided to go into hibernation until the scarabs could find a solution to their problem.

So basically the Necron Lords or the higher the rank means that you conserved more personality and traits than the other plebs that couldnt. And besides being the leader of a Dynasty means that you literally where once the genefather of a legion of descendants that are now the CPU.s of necron warriors etc...

Not too shabby ehh?

Some Necron Lords have less personality than others and have reverted to more Alien behaviour.

>>57680631
Yeah, I'm in agreement, making the average service time of an Adeptus Astronomica 30-40 years seems a bit too benign, for lack of better word. Powering the Astronomicon is still a monumental task that requires sacrifice of the highest order, and my only question is whether or not service is voluntary or not. Psykers still get scooped up for mandatory training by the Black Ships (can't have citizens randomly exploding into daemons), but maybe after their training they can choose their vocation, perhaps even living their life out as an average citizen on Old Earth?

This could lead to situations where elderly psykers volunteer for Astronomicon duty during periods of heavy load like warp storms to spare the younger ones, like how in Japan retired nuclear engineers volunteered to go into Fukushima to spare young people the radiation exposure, knowing they had less lifespan remaining anyway (real life Nobledark at its finest).

"In a way, the Astronomicon IS the Imperium, young one. Without it, none of this would possible: this school, this planet of wonders, our very civilization and way of life. And the Adeptus Astronomica, they are the spirit of the Imperium made flesh. Arm in arm with their brothers, they give of their very souls to cast light into the darkest corners of the galaxy so that the Imperium and all who live under its aegis might be live on. They will not march to war to face our foes with armor and gun like you one day will, but they are no less noble for that. Remember that, boy."
- Senior Lecturer Bernar Skrayling, Calth Schola Progenium

>>57692478
>Horus Heresy
>Disputing the Carcharodons fluff that's been decided on for ages

Are you that one retard that barged in ranting about Luther and Lion despite clearly not having read our fluff?

>>57692573
>>Disputing the Carcharodons fluff that's been decided on for ages
>Being this fucking obtuse

Helding importance on Horus Heresy books over 40k it's the most autistic and retarded thing ever. Didnt those faggots try to erase the blood ravens and basically shift the blame of everything into something else? If they retconned something then it can be retconned again.
Besides it was never decided that they where NL or RG just that they shared way too many similarities which is pretty dumb.

>>57692654
No, you utter mong, it’s the fact you referred to the Horus Heresy in this AU when that never fucking happened in this timeline. I refuse believe someone could be so earnestly dense so I’m just going to assume this is bait.

>>57692727
>to the Horus Heresy in this AU when that never fucking happened in this timeline
Well then take away the HH part and just made that they split, to have more cultural clash.

>>57692654
Have you tried reading the fluff for this AU?

>>57691230
four talkative things on ganymede isn't too many, particularly if we balance it out with more inanimate things in the recesses of the Inquisition's moon, which has been a long standing place to fill out anyways.

>>57692654
>Helding importance on Horus Heresy
An event that never happened in this AU and is one of the big defining features of this AU.

>>57692478
>Tought they may share similar geneseed
Gene-seed in this AU does not work that way. M3MP Astartes Pattern gene-seed is the same for all chapters the use it. Any deviations are either from the recruitment stock or someone's been tampering with the product after delivery.

>>57693148
Is Ganymede where the Grey Knights keep the Tesseracts or do they still keep that shit on Titan?

>>57693148
Fair enough.

>>57693656
They keep the Tesseracts on Ganymede. The idea is if one goes ploin-shaped and the planet gets sucked into the Warp, Titan won't go with it. At the same time Ganymede is literally one planet over from Titan, so if shit goes down the Knights can hear about it and be on it in an instant.

>>57692540
I'd say service is voluntary. The image of older psykers on Old Earth volunteering in times of crisis where there's a huge surge and the Astronomican is in trouble so young people don't have to is a good one. Especially given that Earth has so many psykers.

>>57693148
I think we need more books. Legi and Draco recovered a copy of the Necroteuch which means that the Imperium has a copy and that it is still in circulation in this timeline.

Not listed on the Ganymede section but mentioned in other places is Ego-Video Liber Deorum Daemonium (Gods and Deamons: A Spotters Guide) by Red Magnus.

Anyone got any additional ideas for forbidden texts?

>>57695090
Are there other canon examples of heretical texts? Presumably there would be at least a few books written by renegades and sorcerers that detail summoning rituals.

>>57695090
There might be a copy of Lorgar's Black Manuscript around, but no one can seem to find it.

>>57692478
Worth pointing out that one reason Carcharodons were made Night Lords here as oppossed to Raven Guard like in canon is that the Night Lords otherwise have no daughter chapters, which is kind of odd given that geneseed isn't as big of a deal. War Hounds have Minotaurs, Salamanders have confirmed descendants in Black Dragons, Storm Giants, and the Dragon Lords, KSons have Grey Knights (technically), Exorcists, and Blood Ravens, Death Guard have Black Templars and their like, Iron Warriors have Silver Skulls, Void Wolves have Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus, and the Black Legion. Only legion that doesn't have descendants so far is Terra's Sons, but they at least have several reasons for being that way.

Marines Malevolent are probably descended from somebody but no one will ever admit to it.

>>57697523
I always had the Marines Malevolent as Night Lord successors as well, since they're almost certainly going to get the same permanent-penitent-crusade treatment as well cultivating the same reputation.

Did we save the names of the Mechanicus breakaway sects?

>>57699295
Yes, I believe we did. They're on Forces of Chaos on 1d4chan.

>>57699642
Have we touched on internal divides in the AdMech of the Imperium yet?

>>57698060
One could make arguments in favor of quite a few legions for the origins of the Marines Malevolent. In addition to the Night Lords, there is also...

Iron Warriors - Their "cold equations" style of combat that fits with the worst aspects of the IW.
Imperial Fists - Dorn's focus on internal strength. Also yellow.
Ultramarines - Given how variable Ultramarine successors can be
War Hounds - Brutality

About the only ones that couldn't claim to be the parent legion are the Iron Hands, Vlka Fenryka, and Thousand Sons, for obvious reasons.

>>57701993
If they were Warhounds then they would have to have been a descendant of a descendant founded after Kharn Oathsworn died. If they either of those two would have seen them drop artillery shells on a refugee camp they would have had a whole new understanding of the name Red Angel.

Dorn's followers were more about setting up a fortification and making them come to you, MMs are nomadic.

Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Ultramarines for just numbers are more likely.

Iron Warriors absolutely would drop artillery shells on a refugee camp if victory demanded it on the principle that it would save more lives in the long run.

>>57701682
not much besides their naming anyone that won't submit to Olympus Mons Heretek (Savlar Brotherhood, Hub Worlds, and various other Survivor civ forges as well as other sects of the Mechanicus that are automata non grata on Mars)

>>57702954
What would be a good name for a sect that puts the human will above rampant technophillia?

Don't do cerebral augmentation beyond the minimal necessary to interface with their cybernetics.

Forbid the use of servitors.

One of the factions that left Mars when it was unified because fuck kneeling before Olympus Mons and their creepy old robe-men. Have no forgeworlds of their own but doe have enclaves on many hive worlds.

Was going to call them Clock/Cogwork Orthodox but that's a thing from the SCP universe.

>>57703060
In terms of what? Are we talking Civ:BE Purity/Supremacy that is all about tech but forbids tampering with the human form, "man as tool user" incarnate?

How would they do anything if they don't have servitors, seeing as servitors and vat-grown brains are used in everything that has a computer system (except maybe in Hubworld/Interex/Tau space).

>>57701682
>>57702954
>>57703060
There's stuff on this scattered around the 14chan pages, but it is admittedly not very easy to find. We've established the main divide in the Mechanicus is between the orthodox faction who are the standard AdMech focused on machine supremacy and the Biologis who are more interested in tinkering around with genetics and biological enhancement. More detail on the Biologis is given on the Forces of the Imperium page, but essentially within the Biologis there are two sub-factions, one descended from the traditions of the Merikan bio-druids and one from the Duscht genesmiths and carrying their predecessors' rivalry.

The 1d4chan blurb on the Notes page also mentions a moderate faction: "reconstructionist/reformist (don't necessarily invent new things, but spend more time trying to reverse-engineer things based on old data)"

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>>57661171
>tfw no War of Ancients where Squats take Eldar crowns

>>57703726
I think anon meant more within the AdMech itself. We have the Legio Cybernetica, Stillness, and the like, but those tend to be outcasts (Hubworlders took Cybernetica in when Olympus Mons kicked them out, another reason the toasters hate the space dwarfs).

Whether Biologicus are within AdMech depends on who you ask. Officially they are by the Administratum, and after 10,000 years of cultural exchange the AdBio look a lot more like the AdMech. Some AdMech would say they are, others would say they are pretenders playing dressup as scientists because they don't think the flesh is weak.

>>57705434
Part of it is also that Old Earth around the Unification had its own much smaller bands of technological experts of all stripes, proto-Biologicus, Terrawatt technomancers, and the more useful Merikan, Urshian, and PPL experts among them, and instead of melding these orders into the Mechanicus the Imperium really just attached them on paper and kept a lot of them on Administratum or Militarum payroll whenever Mars is too limiting. The Throne/Imperial Court also seems to use a lot of the privileges extended to Survivor Civilizations to get around the strictures of the Mars Mechanicus to field vehicles, gear, and tech from foundries, shipyards, and workshops in places like Necromunda and Ultramar, as well as the Biologicus that was fashioned under the Throne's aiges and any heterodox sects like the Savlar Brotherhood and myriad other less famous orders the court wishes to employ and back with its considerable funds. There's also been stuff connecting the Terrawatt clan with the Hydra, and speculation that Malcador went to Cthonia with some measure of foreknowledge as to what he might find there, provided by his fellows in the Terrawatt clan.

Also am I just imagining that it was mentioned that the Hydra would sometimes use the a golden snake eating its tail as their seal, as well being associated with the more the many headed serpent of the Alpha Legion.

Bump.

>>57705785
>Also am I just imagining that it was mentioned that the Hydra would sometimes use the a golden snake eating its tail as their seal, as well being associated with the more the many headed serpent of the Alpha Legion.
yes, this is the first I've heard of that at least

>>57705785
Didn't Ultramar also seek out some of the other technical powers, since they were so far out in the boondocks they didn't feel the need to kowtow to the AdMech?

A lot of Imperial Worlds seem to be under AdMech control in part because the other big (and I use that term loosely since the AdMech controls like 85% of manufacturing) industrial powers weren't encountered until later. Interex were encountered right before the Raid. Ultramar was at the far end of the galaxy. If the early part of the Crusade was restricted to the Segmentum Solar, the Hubworlders wouldn't have been encountered until the Astronomican was online. Though the exact timing of that within the 300-500 years (did we ever nail it down? I think there was some discussion of how long Sol took and the Crusade took in an old thread, whereas Earth itself took a few decades at most) is uncertain. All we have as a hard date is the Raid took place in the latter half once the Imperium started being a power worth noticing.

>>57702150
I was thinking a bit on how the Marines Malevolent might act in this timeline without making them into one-dimensional villains while keeping their core characterization of being complete and total assholes. However, I think the idea ended up basically being how the MM are portrayed in canon.

The Marines Malevolent are extreme pragmatists. They feel like being a super soldier is a fundamentally dirty business that requires people to do horrible things, and thinking otherwise (or, heaven forbid, treating it like you're a hero) means you're lying to yourself or you're too cowardly to do what is necessary to keep the Imperium safe. This doesn't go over well with other chapters, who even though they've had their fair share of doing something distateful to stop something worse generally try to find another solution first. The Marines Malevolent would rather amputate a limb rather than try to cure the infection first, simply because it leaves no room for failure. The MM don't like any chapter. They see the others as deluded or cowards, and they don't even like themselves, who they see with a distinctly bitter taste of regret at all the "horrible yet necessary" (though many would debate that) things that they have had to do.

As a result, things tend to ends badly when the Marines Malevolent try to play with anyone else. What generally ends up happening is the MM do something horrible, they get put on penitent crusade, everyone forgets about what they did after a few decades (no one really notices what they do on penitent crusade unless they really screw up, since they are generally off on the fringes), and the MM are tentatively taken off the list. Only for the Marines Malevolent to do it all again.

>>57708841 (cont.)
Currently, the most recent event that the Marines Malevolent have gotten shit over happened during the Fourth War for Armageddon, when the MM steered part of an Ork WAAAGH! into a refugee camp. The Marines Malevolent expected the Orks to be slowed down as they stopped to loot and massacre the defenseless refugees, and then while the Orks were pinned simply bombarded the whole place with artillery. This uber-pragmatic attitude horrified most of the other chapters present, especially the Salamanders. The Marines Malevolent saw themselves as doing what needed to be done to win, and what the other chapters were too cowardly to do themselves, and said as much to Tu'Shan's face. Helbrecht might have even wanted a piece of that action if he was around.

To be honest this belief that they are doing what needs to be done and other chapters won’t actually paints them in a better light than canon.

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>>57691461
Am same person who wrote >>57691966. Meant to say this yesterday but didn't want to clog up the thread, though I think it's probably worth saying.

I agree that the Necron's win condition shouldn't be as easy as the Silent King walking into a hidden chamber on Cadia and instantly wins by pressing a button. But on the other hand having the Necrons have a distinct goal to accomplish their objectives is what makes them distinct from the tyranids. Otherwise you run into the same issue as 3rd Edition, the Necrons are basically just slightly smarter metal tyranids, just replace kill everything with eat everything.

Also, this is Szarekh we're talking about here. Not exactly the master of restraint. He's good at patience if it's the best way to get what he wants, but if the Necrons were to try and kill everything by hand at some point he'd go "alright, fuck this, there has to be a more efficient way to do this". To paraphrase Voltaire, if there wasn't already a method in place for the Necrons to kill off all life in the universe to stall Chaos, the Necrons would feel it necessary to invent one.

Which is why a wind up period for the Cadian pillars might work better. It still gives them a discrete goal but doesn't give them an insta-win, and still requires a lot of work.

>>57708841
>>57708856
That sounds mostly right, the only thing I would object to is the MMs getting out of border patrol/penitent crusade duty, since once you get that reputation it sticks forever. Just look at the NLs, they been around for 10,000 years and they still haven't been welcomed back into the mainstream, so at most the MMs got one chance to prove they were reformed and they blew it.

As for why they're around for on Armegeddon, it could be that they were raiding one of the Ork Empires around there, and the situation was sufficiently desperate enough that the Imperium called them into action, with the results as mentioned above. Though we should recall, SM Chapters answer to Segmentum Command in this AU so the MMs probably got censured and booted back out into xenos space again after this incident.

>>57709716
Keep in mind that whilst the MMs resent their reputation the NLs do not. NLs have worked hard to maintain a reputation black as night.

MMs want on some level acceptance. NLs revel in the fear they cause because it sometimes results in the enemy surrendering before the first shot is fired, resulting in a nice clean and bloodless victory for thr Imperium.

>>57709716
How far up the chain of command are super soldiers accountable?

Are Chapter Masters equivalent to general or colonel?

>>57709716
That actually works better. Armageddon was bad enough that everyone was called in, an effective second chance for the M&Ms to redeem themselves. Then artillery bombardment.

>>57712241
It should be a recurring theme with them.

They do something needlessly dickish.

They get sent to the edge of the map to think about what they have done.

They are either forgiven by time or need is great enough that they get invited back.

They do something dickish again.

It's been a repeated set of events since M34

>>57663205
I think Dornfag gave up or possibly died.

>>57714312
I remember Dornfag saying he gave up.

>>57715256
Yeah, and the Dorn section has pretty much everything he came up with, plus some stuff discussed in the threads. It’s all pretty good, but very unfinished.

>>57707798
Coincidentally the symbol of the Cthonian Restoration Effort should be a similar symbol.

It is either as an actual connection to the Hydra or it's the Illuminated thinking they are funny. The Illuminated have always been interested in Dark Age remnants.

Oddly it could be both thinking they are being clever.

The actual people doing the work are predominantly lay-technicians and other people who either don't know of such institutions and the higher ups either don't know or don't care. They have a job to do and have little patience for secret handshake merchants or tinfoil hat salesmen.

It is rumoured that the fey and forgotten breed of antiquity, the Terrawatt Technomancers, still exist as an independent institutions working on the project.

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>>57716774
There are lots of rumors in the universe. People'll believe anything. From the less ridiculous stuff like Alpharius and Omegon being members of the Hydra and/or Illuminati, to the constant conspiracy theories that Eldrad is behind literally everything or there is some sort of Galactic Eldar Conspiracy, to the idea that Aun'Va is secretly some immortal space pope or Lion El'Jonson is alive somewhere in a coma, to the really ridiculous stuff like the idea that the Imperium has managed to hide a secret Watcher breeding ground, a hidden facility for all the Grey Knights' junk, a breeding colony of Blanks, or, get this, a freaking C'tan, in the Sol system, the most overbuilt solar system in the galaxy.

It must be a great universe to be a conspiracy theorist.

>>57716774
Apparently the leaders of the Terrawatt Clan are called Theologitects in canon, and had ideas about technology descended from the same roots as the Mechanicus but distinct in their interpretation of things like god-machines and archeotech. I figure that the Sol system would have had both a Man of Gold and an Iron Mind back in the DAoT, and Old Earth and Holy Mars seem like probable locations for them respectively. It could be that the Age of Strife technologists that survived in proximity to these relics after the end of the Iron War were influenced by their natures in later ages as their new institutional identities formed. It was already suggested that the eldest and most venerable Forgeworlds tended to be the less devastated former locations of Iron Minds, and the worlds developed as they did in part because they were already shot through with Dark Age tech.

Also, I suggest that the pre-unification symbol of the Terrawatt clan should be a circle of yellow lightning, possibly on a black field.

Guy who did thw Bloodtide stuff here, tied to rewrite the Ka'jagga'nath part so it was less of an anti-climax. Also, how much should we reduce the numbers of the Grey Knights. Should there be 50? 30? Start this after the sentence where Mariel dies.

When the surviving Grey Knights and Sisters finally made it to the center of the Bloodtide, they found their worst fears had been realized. Ka’jagga’nath, one of the elite Bloodthirsters of Khorne, had taken an interest in the Bloodtide and claimed it for his own. When the cultists had activated the Bloodtide they too had been killed by the Dark Age weapon, but the amount of slaughter wreaked in Khorne’s name had interested Ka’jagga’nath enough to respond to their initial summoning pleas.

>>57718828
The few sisters with fuel in their flamers and meltas immediately opened fire, immolating clouds of nanites in a matter of seconds. The remainder opened fire with their bolters alongside the Grey Knights, but found their bolt shells hitting the nanotech masses of the Bloodtide and exploding before they could even touch Ka’jagga’nath. The Bloodthirster sent the rolling swells of the Bloodtide forth with a wave of his hand, microscopic piranhas bowling over the Grey Knights and tearing apart the last few remaining Sisters. The Grey Knights drew their power swords and advanced, but found themselves knocked away as Ka’jagga’nath threw waves of the Bloodtide around. The few who managed to reach Ka’jagga’nath slashed at the Bloodthirster with their power swords only to be knocked back by bone-shattering blows from the Greater Daemon. But Ka’jagga’nath’s preoccupation with the Bloodtide would also prove his undoing. Ka’jagga’nath was so focused on crushing the Grey Knights he did not notice when Brother Ordan plowed through an idling cloud of nanites just feet away from him, using the swarm as cover for his approach. Ka’jagga’nath tried to redirect the Bloodtide to stop the Grey Knight, nanomachines streaking his armor like artificial airblown sand, but Ordan already had his power sword drawn and with a swing took the Bloodthirster’s head from his shoulders. The Bloodtide, which had been bound to Ka’jagga’nath’s will when it had been activated, was disrupted by its banishment and returned to an inert form, waiting for a new master.

>>57718846
Sounds better.

Also we now have a deamon with access to nonotech. Does Voldorius eventually get hold of it?

Before being blaming for heresy i like to post this. I was triying to write something about Ephrael Stern, but all i can think is "Female Master Chief" in place of "Space Motoko" so i want first to clarify the information about her and add something to talk.
-Power:She is between Grey Knight and greater demon so she is around Paladin or (Grand?)Master level with similar powers? unfazable, incorruptible, but with her powers buffing her to this level(and aura to buff/protect the rest=Overkill?)
Rank=Canoness(Comander?) whith a mission(Destacament?) of elite sisters under her command
Skills=Unchanged she is the best of the best that the sisters can train(Canon)
Backgroung=I was thinking in changing her past making to voidborn in a fleet of Luna wolves/Black legion/Sons of Horus she is esencialy a military brat. She is naturally tall and slender and make easy(sorta) for her pass as a wych after augmentation.
The screeming cage(The true heresy)=After being captured be Dark/Crone Eldar she was used in some sort of sick experiment be a cabal of homonculi who end Gone Horribly Right she scape kill then and end in killing spree with all commorragh after her blood(Maybe Vect or a rival is after the experiments?) she is saved in extremis be the pariah.
Personality(The real problem)=Cold, distant, profesional, pragmatic, uterly devoted to the imperial truth she has problems relating with others, she esencialy was killed and brough back wrong. When she says that don´t remenber her past she is telling the true. She is esencialy a new person.
Relations=Hand is alife and well and work as a sort of Aramaki to Stern, he is one of the handfull of humans that she can call a friend. Cegorath for unknow reason, he seems to take a great interest in her and occasionaly take her in unespected asigments. Oscar and Isha, she works for then at the most higher level and they seems to be the only being with she can realy relate.
So now can beging the Blaming.

>>57720202
It was speculated some threads ago that she is a child of a navigator father and a latent psyker mother and by sheer chance has the same combination of mutations Magnus the Red had.

But like her mother it was all latent and only the ohfuckno of The Cage experiment activated her almonds.

Unlike Magnus it's almost all manifesting in physical buffs.

>>57720379
That can explain the interest of the higuer ups on her. Oscar can relate with her like his old budy Magnus. And the Adbio is mad triying to understand her genetics.

>>57720379
>>57720638
But Celestine Titus and Taldeer have similar relations and origins. maybe this is to much? and if Magnus can´t be augmented who she end being a sister? This is my problem. i want to do something diferent.

>>57720826
How do they have similar origins?

And maybe she was a non-militant sister.

>>57720085
I think we decided Voldorius' Bloodtide and Ka'jagga'nath's might have been two different entities. If they're not in canon Voldorius came before the "paint" incident.

>>57720892
Non-militant..Hmm...yes...or..she was inducted or trained as a sister like Celestine.
Celestine=Genetically related to Sangui
Titus=Blank? Space Marine who the Adbio whant to breed to Mira to create a new breed of space marine
Taldeer=Imposible hybrid
All 3 have..i..will..say interesting genetics.

>>57718846
Better, but I hope you don't mind me saying that it seems like you're not quite comfortable writing action, so it may be best to leave vague with reference to a long and brutal battle or something.

If you want to keep this level of detail, a few things. First is the characterization of the Bloodthirster, where there should probably be a lot more melee involved rather than just standing back and shooting nanites at people. Skulls for the Skull Throne and all that. Another thing would be to show how the GKs work together to overcome their foe, and the Emperor's Gift by ADB might be helpful there. In a scenario like this, I could see a few GKs burning a path through the nanite cloud with their powers while the others charge, or creating a psyshield to hold the cloud at bay while others are fighting the Bloodthirster. Some specific things like that will a) make the action more vivid and b) help the portrayal of the GKs since teamwork is one of their big themes.

As for numbers, 30-40 sound about right. 3-4 squads indicate the cult is a serious threat but is still enough to be overwhelmed by the horde, with maybe 20 surviving to take on the Bloodthirster. For comparison, a single squad is considered more than enough to accompany an Inquisitor to purge a corrupted planetary governor and his court.

As for the super nitty gritty (oh god I'm getting so obnoxious I'm sorry), GKs technically use force weapons rather than power weapons, and they're usually halberds as it helps them match the reach of the bigger daemons. Ordan should probably be a Justicar, which is the Sergeant equivalent rank.

>>57720379
I don't think Ada was in any way latent, given how Ganzorig was using her as a walking WMD.

>>57720826
I though we vetoed Titus being a descendant of Guilliman for exactly this reason.

I would say it's a stretch to call Taldeer Eldrad 2.0. Eldrad is a long-term schemer and prefers to do things from a distance (as in "why get in a knife fight when you can blow them up from two blocks away". Taldeer is a ground-pounder at heart and only really sees her farseeing talents as a way to solve immediate problems. There are similarities, but there are also similarities between Eldrad and Sreta.

Despite that, I agree with the point that we don't want to make it seem like M41 is the time of Primarchs: The Next Generation.

Some potential suggestions for exacerbating the differences.
1) You could play up the differences between Magnus and Stern's family. Magnus was essentially born as a weapon. Stern's Navigator parent could be someone who was sick of all the Navigator politics and decided to go off the grid and get married to someone they loved (latent Voidborn?).
2) Do not mention Magnus. At most, just mention Navigators having kids with non-Navigators often causes weird, inconsistent things, which explains why the Imperium hasn't tried to make an army of Magnuses (Magnusi?)
3) Stern might not have been a member of the Sisters' squad. She could have been their astropath. Being thrown in the cage could have been what awakened her powers to more than just psychic e-mail and going full "HULK SMASH" on everything.

I definitely wouldn't say she has the same mutations that Magnus the Red has. There is something odd about her, but it's manifesting as aforementioned smashing rather than super-psyker.

>>57720892
Celestine - Descendant of Sanguinus
Titus - (Suggested) descendant of Guilliman
Taldeer - Descendant of Eldrad

>>57721612
Ada wasn't but Stern's could have been. Latent psykers are still genetically psykers.

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>>57720826
>>57720892
>>57721612
By the way, is Celestine even a Sister in this timeline? On the one hand, she's the Angel of Ophelia, and there's no way in hell the Katholians would give up their standard-bearer and potential saint to be potentially shipped off to serve in another order in the distinct secular Securitas. Also not every female fighter in this timeline needs to be a Sister. On the other, she is the Angel of Ophelia. The Katholians would want her as tough as possible. On the other hand, if she has Sangy-level psyker powers she might not need the augments (especially if she relies on them more than Sanguinius did), and I think we did imply she wasn't augmented.

Also, how old is Celestine. I know we said that while she isn’t *young* she also isn’t old enough to have taken rejuvenants yet. In many ways she’s the youngest hero of the Imperium, which ties in well with her theme of worrying that she doesn’t measure up to the hype that people are saying about her. I’m thinking 35-ish to late thirties, old enough to have been bloodied and seen some shit but not old enough that rejuvenants are a thing.

I had an idea for Celestine’s appearance. As opposed to Sanguinius, who had stereotypical pure white archangel wings, Celestine’s wings are white with black tips or contour feathers, similar to some seabirds. This still gives her wings a clean and “regal” appearance, but it also makes her appear more down-to-earth and mortal, to tie into her theme of her being a much more earthy and modest descendant of Sanguinius, who in comparison was royalty and whose accomplishments make him look like a demigod in comparison (though he was still a flawed individual like everyone else), and isn't sure if she can measure up to the standards other are setting up for her.

>>57720892
>>57721612
I love brainstorming. The forest don´t let my see the trees. Of course Stern don´t need to be a sister or have augmentations that are redundant. So let change a little the background.. this will need polish because is similar to Celestine/Legientrasse and make Stern as a sort of dark mirror.

She was born of navigator and voidborn stock, a military brat in some crusader fleet. That was the reason the DE target her. The Cage was and experiment sponsored be the archon to create a weapon using DAOT. It was years of being tortured from some of the most depraved monsters in existence. Thousands of similar kids were killed. But this were DE they were the lucky ones.. And then one day it work.. Ephrael Stern was reborn.. and then the homunculi know pain.. the warriors fall.. the kabal fall.. and the body of the archon was impaled in the gates. The rest of kabals try to capture her. Rivers of blood run through the streets of Low Commorragh in the sudsequent infighting. Even Lelith send her daughter to end all this "stupid little nonsense". She barely return, informing her mother of the origin of the kabals war, and who the Pariah help her scape.

Ok..Ideas?

>>57722634
Sangy was augmented so probably she can get the sister package. And Grand Provost Marshal Aveliza Drachmar is and Arbites and was given the works. She seems like a combatant so all tricks how help her survive will be procured. Aditionaly sisters can have children so that will not be a problem to her to give a heir to Sangui line..So why not?

>>57722634
She dosen´t need to be a sister. But a bunch of celestians bodyguards will be to good to not put in the recruitment holos.

Bump.

>>57722634
Given her usefulness to the Imperium she would be given rejuvenents and augmentation as soon as possible so as to prolong that usefulness.

As of 999M41 she look 17 because she is 17 and has just received her first rejuvenation. 000M42 will be the year she gets her augmentation. Although she is just a standard holder this technically does make her a child soldier.

Shit is mitigated somewhat by her Battle Sister bodyguards.

>>57725956
Wait, why would she get rejuvenats at 17? From what I gather in canon you don’t need/get them until past middle age where aging is causing decline. Also I do feel she should be a bit older than 17, at least old enough to be more cognizant of her situation and a bit jaded.

Also, not sure I’d totally agree with the characterization on 1d4chan where she doesn’t care that’s she’s Sanguinius’ descendant. If you found out you were the descendant of a cross between Charlemagne and Jesus and received the stigmata so everyone knew it, don’t you think that would weigh on you a bit?

>>57726395
Yeah, rejuvenant treatment definitely starts in middle age. It doesn't so much de-age you as prevent you from aging. Guilliman and Lorgar looked like they were in their sixties and Corax in his fifties for most of their life.

We definitely said she was older than 17 (though she did start out as a child soldier, late teens at latest), old enough that she has seen some shit and has seen people die for her, has had to kill, and has had a bit of the idealism kicked out of her. In many ways she's Jean d'Arc if the latter had lived long enough to get cynical.

>If you found out you were the descendant of a cross between Charlemagne and Jesus and received the stigmata so everyone knew it, don’t you think that would weigh on you a bit?

I think it's a little bit of both. She doesn't personally care if she's Sanguinius' descendant, she's more concerned about making sure people believe her visions so they can head the horrible shit off at the pass. On the other hand everyone else very much does care if she is Sanguinius' descendant, and she's very much does care what they think and is starting to feel the pressure because everyone is expecting her to be sliced Jesus.

She wants to be a good woman, but she neither wants to be or thinks she could live up to a messiah.

>>57723373
Drachmar was also going to be in the Securitas until they noticed that her encyclopedic knowledge of The Law would otherwise be going to waste and she got transferred. On the other hand, the Valkyries are a thing despite likely not being Securitas. So I guess it could go either way.

>>57721107
Yes, I am terrible at writing third-person fight scenes. I could do it if it was first person but codex entries like that elude me. Also I've never read a Grey Knights novel.

>force weapons
I knew I screwed up something. I meant the psychic powered swords but my brain must have put in the wrong term.

>>57722739
It's a good start with the other stuff. Some more detail would be nice.

>>57726395
I think it's been mentioned that the best way to take rejuvenents is often, in small doses and starting young. Starting in middle years means that ypu have to make up lost ground.

Of course most don't earn the right to take them until already a bit grey.

Celestine is like Jubblowski in that her use was evident earlier in life.

>>57727645
That is creepy but i think that the empire probably can do it.

Good for the moment i don´t go to die. I have the idea that she has a happy infancy. Her family love her. Her fathers never marry an she was a (Happy)coincidence. I think that voidborn/navigator children will be rare mostly for weird divergent genetics but not so that people will be really surprised(So no sister, sorry girl). She grow as a happy and well adjusted military brat. I see her navigator progenitor as a somewhat distant figure between mutations/duty and she rarely meet him/her? but the relation was good. The other progenitor was a voidborn support in a Void Wolves? fleet. She grow between Astartes/Weapons/Voidships and a lot of duty to the empire so this form the core of her personality. And then a day she dosen´t return from shore leave and nobody know what the fuck happend. This was her first (metaforical)death. She was young maybe around 13?

And now the bad guys..I think that the experiment whith the Screaming Cage was sponsored be an up-an-coming archon of a lesser kabal in low commorragh who think more of himself that he really was. They try to replicate the golden men/iron mind wiht DE soultech, during years and years, with thousands of kids from around the empire. It never work, and degenerate in a sort of joke between the others kabals. This is the worst part, there is better ways to torture souls(hey this guys are DE there is always something worse) but the ego of this guy make him continue even if the kabal loss resources in a pointless work. And then come Stern. She is not even the first navigator/voidborn mix. She is totally broken beyond desesperation. Then she die for the second time(this time for real) and the shit hit the fan. The kabals run to try to see what happend and a kabal war explode in low commorragh. This is the reason Lelith send Reri, is not really that diferent from another business day and the heavys has better things to do. To be continue.

>>57728343
I dunno, I'd bump Celestine being put on rejuvenants, if she was, in her twenties or something, for the simple reason that while the Katholians may have forced her to become a soldier far earlier than she wanted to, they don't want to advertise the fact. And being stuck in the body of a teenager probably isn't good for an adult.

>>57730323
Can doesn't mean that they pun the girl full of juice, but can be part of the political games that are played behind her back. With diferent factions asking for totally stupid things for totaly wrong reasons, and in this sort of games is probably that Celestine desires end being
ignored and used to hurt her. It can be used to show that even if the imperium are the "good guys" they can do prety disgusting things.

>>57730648
It was suggested that half the Ophilian nobility want to marry her for political gain.

She has refused all advances. Before the wings became too noticeable she wanted to become a nun.

On the other hand her squire (a failed space marine) is always kept close by.

>>57730648
>>57732654
This can end in a weird mix between a soap.opera/games of thrones in space!

>>57732721
Keep in mind that due to her importance to the Imperium as a symbol of hope no actual harm would be permitted to her by members of the Imperium.

To this end she would have actual Securitas Sister bodyguards.

Anyone who tried to harm her would get fucked up and so would anyone standing close to them and anyone they associated with.

>>57732654
>>57732721
>>57733537
I have this weird vision in my head, about a noble who go to see Celestine and is stoped by a sister with a flamer, at the same time other is putting in a latex glove and a snikering third is letting the half dressed squire out of his lover room through a window

>>57733859
The squire is called Quintinus Othonos and claims to be a failed Space Marine whose future was rewritten due to discovering a peanut allergy early into the implantation process. He had no idea he had this allergy because peanuts aren't native to his homeworld. Due to medical complications he was dropped as unsuitable and would be more likely to develop additional problems if they continued.

From there he was transferred to the Storm Trooper recruitment pool of inquisition wherein he performed three major operations, records now scrubbed. At about age 21 he was withdrawn from the pool and brought into the more permanent employ of Inquisitor ████████.

Inquisitor ████████ was notably meticulous in the removal of records of past acquaintances that left their employ and Quintinus seems to have been no exception. He was appointed as Lady Celestine's squire because he was honest to a fault, diligent in anything he set his mind to, fluent in High Gothic and well versed and practiced in many forms of weaponry. He was also, for a man who looked like he had at some point had his face tordden on by an ork, surprisingly soft spoken around the Lady and is a source of much comfort for her.

Indeed the Doom Eagles do have records of a Quintinus Othonos some years ago and there is an Apothecary who remembers some tadoo about an novice and some sort of allergy.

And indeed if they ever found Inquisitor ████████, notoriously paranoid as they are, they would confirm that they did indeed employ a Quintinus Othonos before he was transferred out to somewhere else. However there is also a Storm Trooper by the name of Quintinus Othonos in the retinue of Inquisitor Viel of the Ordo Xenos who is also a botched Astartes with a peanut allergy and the face of a professional scrumball player.

>>57735515
The Quintinus Othonos who is squire to Celestine does have surgical scars, scars that go to the bone, that are in the right places for an early aborted Astartes transformation.

It should be noted that there are chapters and forces that specialize in deception that have a vested interest in the stability of the Imperium other than the Inquisition. The underhanded left hands of the Imperium. Ave Hydra

>>57733859
>>57735515
>>57735617
Ahhh..A truly beutiful love story.

I just saw Fyodor blurbs on 1d4chan, and the writeup seems like a pretty big deviation from what was discussed in the thread. Specifically, on the page it says he got on the Emperor's shit list because he performed a mass Exterminatus on a whole solar system, whereas we said in the threads before the coup he was considered mostly loyal though overzealous and needed to be closely watched. The sequence of events on the page makes less sense anyway, it's hard to be sneaky and plan a coup at the highest levels of government when you've already blown your Exterminatus load and are obviously a traitor.

The other bits seem off too; given the scrutiny placed on the Inquisition and their reduced ability to commandeer assets, it's unlikely he'd be able to form his own crusade fleet, and he certainly doesn't have any "experimental Warp Drive capable of achieving speeds twice as fast as that of the fastest Imperium craft." (This sounds like wankery to me) Was this run by the threads for approval?

>>57711296
To preserve the SMs autonomy and keep some of their canon flavor, I would say the chains of command are officially separate: SMs don't command normal troops and officers outside of Segmentum Command have no authority over SMs. Segmentum Command simply assigns SM chapters to campaigns where they are most needed, and beyond that the Chapter Masters have the authority to do as they see fit to achieve the objectives of that campaign.

That said, pragmatism and rationality are strong themes of the Imperium, so Chapter Masters undoubtedly coordinate closely with the commanding Guard officers in their assigned theaters. On a mission level, most Guard officers are more than happy to take advice from legendary soldiers with literally centuries of battlefield experience, and most SMs are wise and humble enough to recognize that the officers on the ground have more intimate knowledge of the environment, and know when to keep quiet and follow a good ideas when they hear them.

>>57680782
I think it's a bit much to say humans could improve their natural dexterity to the extent of an Eldar. By virtue of being specifically tailored Old One bioweapons, the Eldar's greater sensory sensitivity and muscle control means that only the most graceful and athletic humans will match an average office worker Eldar in ease of movement.

>>57737716
Yes. Basically this is the sort of thing he did during the 12th Black Crusade, where shit had officially hit the fan and traditionally frowned upon things were begrudgingly tolerated due to the dire circumstances. The problem is he kept doing the same thing after the Black Crusade was over and these actions were no longer begrudgingly tolerated.

When Fyodor's actions in the Salem sector became known and it became pretty obvious he was going to become excommunicated, if not blammed, Fyodor decided in for a penny in for a pound and laid his entire hand on the table. Specifically, the fact that he had been secretly gathering assets and creating a united monodominant bloc within the Inquisition, culminating in the assassination attempt on the Traveling Court. It's not clear if Fyodor ever expected this to work (probably not) or if he expected the sheer audaciousness of it to stall the Royal Family enough for him to get away. It got the Carcharodons on his head.

Fyodor isn't the first Inquisitor to go off the deep end and use his power as an Inquisitor to impose his extremist views on the Imperium. He is the first to do so and then try to unite those inquisitors with similar sentiments into a cohesive group. This fragmented the Inquisition and led to the Inquisitorial Civil War, the most distressing internal conflict that never happened to the Imperium. Normally when an Inquisitor goes power-mad the rest of the Inquisition gangs up on them and stop them before they can do too much damage. Fyodor's bloc was organized and though significantly outnumbered by the rest of the Inquisition it was much harder than simply stripping a rogue Inquisitor of their title. Still, it was mostly a cloak and dagger affair behind the scenes that never spilled out into public view, and made people nervous for the "who watches the watchmen" implications.

>>57738146 (cont.)
His crusade fleet is not just him and his retinue. It's composed of all the other Inquisitors that he got to join his cause, as well as their resources.

The experimental warp drive was also mentioned (indeed, most of the Fyodor writeup is taken straight from the threads). It was likely something that was theoretical, but canned because the implications were too horrendous.

>>57737967
A normal human, definitely. If you compared a proto-eldar to a human the eldar would come off as relatively agile and the human would be a little bit tankier. But the aforementioned example is referring to the Grey Knights, which are heavily augmented. No one is saying the squats are so agile they put Eldar to shame.

As a point of comparison, "Captain America"-level buffs on modern Eldar are enough to put them in the same category as the Custodes (Handmaidens).

>SM autonomy
I think this was what was suggested in the old threads. At some point in the chain of command SMs are part of Imperial structure, but it's really high up (like Segmentum level) and just as often SM commanders end up commanding guard regiments in theaters where both fight side-by-side simply because the Space Marine tends to have seniority and experience. Sometimes you do get a guard commander with more experience (due to rejuvenants), but Space Marines live longer than unaugmented humans and so this kind of situation is rare. Or you get coordination, which is also likely common.

>>57738259
Ah, your post mentioned Hubworlders having a similar effect due to their longevity and I wanted to clarify the issue.

Don't know that I would say modern Eldar are physically close to Mk III S Astartes though. In both canon and Nobledark portrayals, normal SMs are superior to Aspect Warriors and MK III S Astartes are quite a ways stronger than that. Handmaidens keep up with Custodes through Isha's blessings and maybe some subtle psykery, and even then they're a bit more suited to subterfuge and "knife in the dark" type antics than the straight up battles that Custodes are suited for.

As a side note, compared to canon the Custodes have gotten a slight nerf while the GKs have gotten a slight buff since both are Mk III S. In Watchers of the Throne, a Custodes notes that GKs are a bit physically weaker but have the benefit of being psykers, and in this AU their physical stats are equal. However, this is evened out by the fact the GKs are hampered by their overspecialization in fighting Chaos, whereas the Custodes are deadly against any foe and have additional expertise in things like VIP protection and counterinsurgency.

>>57738617
>Don't know that I would say modern Eldar are physically close to Mk III S Astartes though. In both canon and Nobledark portrayals, normal SMs are superior to Aspect Warriors and MK III S Astartes are quite a ways stronger than that. Handmaidens keep up with Custodes through Isha's blessings and maybe some subtle psykery, and even then they're a bit more suited to subterfuge and "knife in the dark" type antics than the straight up battles that Custodes are suited for.

This is true. In terms of power Aspect Warriors have been described as being somewhere between Sisters and Space Marines, which is highly dependent on what Aspect one is talking about and how skilled the individual warrior is, and probably closer to the former because. Aspect Warriors have been noted to be physically stronger than those off the Path of the Warrior both here and in canon due to the Eldar's weird epigenetic expression (basically they're activating some of the old super soldier genes the post-War in Heaven eldar thought were unnecessary but kept in just in case).

The comparisons between Handmaidens/Harlequins and Mark III S Astartes are also accurate. In a straight up slugging match the Handmaiden/Harlequin is going to lose, but neither group fights fair in the first place. It's one of the reasons the Handmaidens and Custodians complement each other so well (though there are stealthy custodians).

But in terms of Isha's/Ceggers' blessings the blessings physically make them "peak Eldar". As in, like Captain America their blessings allow them to do things beyond what the average eldar can do but not to the point they appear outright superhuman (supereldar?) like Astartes compared to normal humans. And it's more they're able to keep up on a physical level rather than getting left in the dust like most of the rest of the galaxy.

>>57739017
I'm a dumbass. I meant "probably closer to the former because Aspect Warriors are more numerous than Space Marines". Though I meant to delete that because I thought about it and I wasn't sure.

>>57737716
>>57738259
The entry could be tweaked a bit to make this more explicit.

>>57739017
Yeah, one of the things I wondered is why the Eldar didn't make their own SM augmentation equivalents, and the justification I had is that the Old Ones, being the egomaniacal control freaks that they are, installed some sort of genetic DRM in the Eldar to prevent any further tampering or changes to their genome, as well as making their bodies resistant to external change from things like geneseed organs or the environment (so no Abeldar). Humanity, by contrast, is more of a malleable blank slate, which is why they can undergo huge changes with augmentation or deviate into weird Abhuman variants.

>>57742251
>is more of a malleable blank slate
We were already suggesting that humans are so genetically malleable because in their first era of expansion with generation ships and early warp drives they went fairly transhuman with adaptations and optimization of the human form's adaptability to improve quality of life during colonization of alien worlds. This was even more pronounced after the creation of the iron minds, and the name Men of Stone was brought up to designate the resulting pangalactic humanoid settlers that still persist in the galaxy millenia later. It's why Catachans have abs like flack armor, Cadians have Chaos radiation screening eye pigments, and Savlar has any native population whatsoever, on top of all the abhuman strains.

>>57742251
>>57742463
Eldar also didn't have any period of isolation like humans did. For five thousand years most human worlds were cut off from each other and many had to genetically modify themselves to survive.

Eldar, by contrast, had the Webway during their entire post-Old One evolutionary history (so any beneficial genetic deviation could spread like wildfire across the Old Empire), and could still walk from Craftworld to Craftworld even right after the Fall. As a result there are barely any opportunities to speciate.

As a point of comparison, look at the Tarellians. They also became very genetically distinct due to isolation, and one could even argue the Mazon and Xibalanique are ab-Tarellian.

The way Eldar genetics seem to work (even in canon) is their DNA seems to be organized into much larger chromosomes than humans. Psychic and environmental stimulus causes parts of the DNA to be expressed and parts to be repressed, which allows them to some degree change what genetic traits they express. This is actually a real phenomenon which in real life is due to changes in chromosome microstructure causing the DNA to shift and block RNA from attaching (see below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_methylation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

That said, no species does this to the degree that Eldar do. Eldar are known to have DNA, and the super-huge chromosomes would be ideal for this kind of selective genetic expression. It's been suggested to be a trait of Shaa-Dome life that made the proto-Eldar an attractive supersoldier candidate to the Old Ones (like the Hrud and their toxins, or the proto-Ork and their reproductive ability).

Weren't the Demiurg suggested to be abeldar? But if that were the case the eldar would have to be silicon-based, which I'm pretty sure they're not.

>Savlar has any native population whatsoever
I know it's true, but I still laughed.

>>57743742
As to why the Eldar never went full Space Marine? Space Marine-level enhancements were probably overkill after the War in Heaven. Space Marines are walking tanks, and have a much harder time adapting to regular life than, say, a Sister of Battle. Anything that could require Space Marine level modifications could be handled by the OP-plz nerf weaponry the Eldar developed afterwards or had squirreled away in doomsday vaults. So modifications on par with an Aspect Warrior were probably enough.

Humans are still finding their way to a comparable "optimum" state, albeit one that is probably going to be tankier than Eldar because humans seem to emphasize tankiness over agility. Sisters, Astartes, and Men of Gold sort of represent the general direction humanity is going. Remember that comment a few threads ago about humanity becoming more Necrontyr or Ork-like? Give humans millions of years and "baseline" humanity is probably going to be a psychic species somewhere between a Sister and an Astartes.

Of course, the question is whether this is a good thing. The eldar are enhanced relative to their ancestors, but it also gave them species wide OCD, massive weak points (grief spiral), and ended up creating a fourth reality tumor to go with the previous three and nearly wiping the Eldar out. And psychic powers are good in times of peace, but in times of crisis can wipe a species out. Consider the Tau (low Warp presence) and the Iron Minds (high Warp presence)

And optima is a subjective term. Humanity isn't moving in a single direction like the Eldar. Felinids, ratlings, and blanks could all end up developing into radically different species than baseline humanity, some of which (the blanks) may not even be able to interact with their kin. And where do species go from there. Evolution isn't goal-oriented. Is it a dead end or do species start making the leap to Old One level?

>>57743742 (cont.)
>>57744010 (cont.)
On a related note, as for the Tau? In a hypothetical Imperium millions of years in the future where everything hasn't fallen apart and the boundaries between species haven't been muddied (*cough*Ynnead*cough*), I can see the Tau going full cyborg. Battlesuits becoming indistinguishable from individuals.

The Tau are already fighting their own biology. They enjoy reproduction and family rearing as much as humans and Eldar do, but their society frowns upon unsanctioned reproduction that can produce children and encourages family members to be more like an uncle or an aunt (unless things have been loosened up after the Schism). Better to vat-grow individuals with no familial loyalty but to the batch. Brain-in-a-jar cybernetics compensate for the Tau's physical weakness compared to the rest of the galaxy (which the Tau already kind of do using battlesuits) and allow for far more specialization between individuals and castes than selective breeding can produce.

What stops them from going full Necron? Well for one the Ethereals seem to value individual thought and output, they don't want to lobotomize their people and institute a robo-aristocracy. And because they wouldn't be doing this as a hastily thought out move because golden abs told them so, they'll probably try to retain some way to make more individuals. Although it sounds very Necron-like, the Tau might end up like a mix between Necrons, the AdMech, and Men of Iron. Or maybe the Dragon's Necron 2.0 (now with soul). Or at the very least, hopefully the Tau will remember the Necrons and don't make the same mistakes.

>>57743742
It was suggested and dropped that the Demiurg be abeldar.

Now they are a completely different species whose homeworld was just coincidentally close enough to the eldar core worlds to now be lost somewhere in the Eye of Terror.

>>57744224
I think that it's worth mentioning that the Emperor's vision for humanity in the thousands/tens of thousands of years scale is I think was mentioned as follows;

Everyone gets Securitas type augments, everyone gets rejuvenents, lets aim for a highly educated, long lived and robust general population.

Not sure how everyone being super soldiers with Methuselah lifespans would impact the progress of species development beyond potentially slowing it down a lot.

>>57745446
If we’re talking a timeframe of another 10,000 years, humanity will also have to deal with the transition to being a fully psychic species, which the Eldar can hopefully help smooth out (if they are still two distinct species, who knows what implications the birth of the Impossible Child will have).

>>57745446
>>57745473
Psychic Securitas would probably be the benchmark. With the augmentations being natural instead of having to be implanted, and possibly with anti-aging features being built in as oppossed to drugs, like how the Eldar engineered themselves for maximum longevity.

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Any Ratling lore in Nobledark Imperium?

bump

>>57746272
A little

Ruled by an Overthane who is the head of the ruling family. Ruling family is voted for by the other tribes/families. One family, one vote and no voting for your own.

Physical deviations are a result of a combination of Dark Age alterations and the severe but relatively short lived Ice Age that started in the early Age of Strife.

Deviations are being smol, two thumbs and three fingers on each hand, weird sort of ape-like hand-feet and possibly better hand eye coordination.

Reputation for being promiscuous gluttons comes from first contact in the Great Crusade when the Ice Age abruptly ended and there was a lot more arable land suddenly available.

Homeworld is Ornsworld. Orn was a larger than life probably mythical founder of Ornsworld. A doer of great deeds and teller of tall tales.

Planetary terrain across much of the land surface has been described as Austria + The Shire.

There were ratling malcontents who founded the colony world of Sigma-Agrius. Then they declared independence from the Imperium and were quickly subjected.

In the 12th Black Crusade the ratling population of Ornsworld was exterminated to the last child despite great bravery and resilience by the PDF. Planet had to be resettled by off-world ratlings who were abroad on business or military service.

Currently Ornsworld has restarted the tradition of large families and a hard limit has been placed by the administatum on recruitment so as not to deplete vital industries of manpower. The little fuckers are out for blood for what was done to them.

They tend not to make their own regiments but spread thinly across the Guard. Usually as snipers and cooks.

Typically armed with some variation of a sniper rifle/long-las, stub/las-pistol, knife and a garrotte made from the silk of the domesticated giant spiders of their homeworld.

It can't be understated how much they are out for blood. Long term Chaos kicked itself in the dick with the ratlings.

>>57745529
Would he want everyone psychic?

You need some psychics around bus would he feel the need for everyone to be?

>>57745446
>>57745529
I am surprised. I was gonna suggest in my next writting, that Stern was transformed in a sort of idealized battle sister and the empire has a project called Thrice-Born to try to copy that level of development and unlocke her vanilla-level power.

>>57749175
According to canon, humans are evolving towards psykery whether they like it or not. With the potential exception of the blanks. In canon the Emperor wants humanity to become Eldar 2.0 (being completely oblivious to what happened with Eldar 1.0) at the very least. Oscar would probably prefer if humanity evolved a system like the Xibalanique or Eldar that reduces Chaos exposure, but he may not have a choice. The ideal is more the physical adaptations with the begrudging acceptance of widespread psykery.

Humans, as a species, are very young and very sloppy psykers. You can get better through a lot of training and practice (Magnus, Tigurius), but as a species we tend to be sloppy and throw our weight around. It's why Chaos likes humanity so much in canon, we're easy prey.

>>57748426
Did we ever get a name for the overthane?

Ok. I´m going to talk of the powers of Stern. First i will explain the diferences of the Cage in ND and who that affect her. The experiment that create her was really a scam manufactured be a group of second-class homunculi to a two-bit villain, the "parts" were really scared and mindbroken kids whithout the knowledge or discipline to really take control of their pain. It was a senseles monstruosity. When Ephrael was connected there was a moment of sudden inspiration for their part, they need a hero, and avenger a executor. They use her basic knowledge of astartes biology to recreate Stern and hypercharge her. Stern was a half-dead mindbroken girl. She awaken as what the kids "think" was a battle sister, and idealized murder killing machine. And then they die. There isn´t a second Hypercharge waiting for her. In her current state she is in the apex. And this come the weird part...The experiment in a moment of flux was a partial succes. Ephrael Stern is a sort of hodgepodge proto Golden-Woman, and hers powers emulate Grey Knight/Oscar abilities. At the end she scape Commorragh and the Imperium begin Project:Thrice-Born....

>>57752964
I'm more in favour of her being a half-navigator.

I like the idea of the Dark Eldar responsible being punk kids just throwing SCIENCE!!!!! at the wall to see what stuck. Also it would have to have been outside the Dark City because Vect won't allow psykery in his city. Which fits the image of immature kids fucking around with a "my first atrocity" kid in a run down shed in the woods.

They didn't know she was half-navigator, they just thought she was a bit tall and pale. But she pinged as a latent psyker so out the sewing kit and IV drips come.

Half-navigators aren't ultrarare or anything. Navigators are paired off like breeding dogs, not for love, so they often have a bit on the side for actual emotional closeness. Not that it would bother them even if they knew. A psykers a psyker and nobody knows for sure (except maybe Ceggers) what the Navigators were spliced from.

Then the screame both pysical and psychic all about her and, as the stitching and sewing continued, within her and the pain goes beyond what can mortally be comprehended reality starts to melt like hot wax. So do the victims.

Ephrael Stern, as we know her now, steps out of the molten flesh slurry naked and immaculate and on fire with the screams of the innocent still ringing in her ears.

Her first birth was when her mother held her with tears of joy, her second was when she became a medic of the Hospitalia (unaugmented) to the cheers of camaraderie the third was amidst ruin and damnation and righteous wroth.

She burned that place to the ground on the way out and staggered into the webway where she would have eventually starved to death but for a "chance" encounter with the Dark Carnival who were on their way to annoy the Blood Drinkers on San Guisaga.

>>57721612
>
>>57728813
>>57752964
>>57753443
>>57753443
She have navigator/voidborn weird genetics but is not clear if this is what make the Cage work. And that is good reason as why she isn´t a battle sister in this timeline.
I don´t know if making her a latent is a good idea, mostly because it made her to similar to Maggi Maggi.
I was thinking in making her prety young at the time of the SC, if we go for hospitaler she probably is a novice in training.
The true reason to make her so young is to make the SC even worst. She is another tortured kid and then is transformed in this uber-powerful psycopatic form, Her mind reworked in something not truly human animore.

So..Ideas?

>>57754217
Adenda..Being latent or not is not really and issue in the actual version the sc just simple recreate stern and give her powers.

>>57752264
Andwise Bophîn

>>57753443
>>57754217
Agreed on the half Navigator-thing. Not sure about the making her a proto-Woman of Gold thing, at least in terms of power levels. I thought it was just that her psychic powers just manifested in the form of insane buffs rather than warpfire or throwing stuff around with her mind. More specialized but as a result a lot more powerful.

At least, I think that's what was said. I'm a little confused.

>I like the idea of the Dark Eldar responsible being punk kids just throwing SCIENCE!!!!! at the wall to see what stuck
Also agree that I like this. Especially because when the project bites them on the ass it has the inevitable ring of "what has science done!" which is especially good given how much the Haemonculi are inspired by mad scientists.

>Maggi Maggi
Who?

>>57754407
My idea wasn´t given her oscar-level of power, it have been writen that she is somewhat between GK and Greater Demon. In the second part of what hers powers are, i gonna be more specific but she is esencialy a female grey knight, but hers psikery manifest in pshysical buffs and a similar but not equal calming aura.
Maggi Maggi is the name that the Emprah call Magnus in If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device

>>57754378
I don't remember if we said if psykers were allowed in any branch of the Adepta Securitas, militant or otherwise.

Having her be latent was just easier.

>>57754611
Is probably better letting pass that question until it was decided if the adepta have psykers

>>57754407
Another addon. Making her a proto goldenwoman it was a way of making her similar but diferent to vanilla were she is basically the second coming. In this, the SC wasen´t as powerful and is basically luck that enpower her. The Empire will run to try(TRY is the word) to replicate hers to create securitas mark-2(In the present of 999.40k the project has just begin and is not really that succeful) and this will create a lot of problems. I think that is a open door to write more about stern and her relation with the world of Nobledark Imperium.

>>57743742
>proto-Eldar

I think there's some canon that states the Eldar as we see them are the Eldar that the Old Ones found, at least physically. They may have been changed a little bit, but what attracted the Old Ones to them was that they were already crazy powerful psykers. The eldar gods were already fully functional beings.


And also that eldar are actually descended from some sort of reptile, but that might be non-canon by now

>>57754611
>>57754683
I think it was the Arbites we said didn't have psykers, or at least weren't allowed to actively use their powers or put them in combat positions, for fear of Perils of the Warp effect.

>>57755339
I don't think the Imperium is trying to force everyone to get Sororitas augmentations right away. It's more that's the way humanity is likely to go given thousands of years of incremental genetic changes and tweaks.

>>57755780
That may be a retcon. Canon is weird. Some versions have the Eldar being completely unrelated to the Old Ones' efforts at uplifting species for war, some have the Eldar gods being surviving Old Ones, and some that say the Old Ones did uplift and enhance the Eldar and boosted their psychic powers.

In this timeline, at least, we've been kind of consistent that the Old Ones taught the Eldar how to make the Eldar gods (as they did with the Hrud, Orks, etc.) much like how the Old Ones created Tzeentch, Malal, and Nurgle, because if there was one thing that fucked up the Necrons and C'tan it was warp power. They may have been somewhat psychic before, but the Old Ones made them super psykers.

>>57756913
I wasn´t sugestin that the empire were forcing the evolution of manking, only that they are triying to improve in sororitas augmentations. But it is the sort of plot that some illuminaty will use, maybe ading some type of mind control?

>>57758122
That is a Deus Ex plot. I am so stupid...

>>57754611
>>57756913
I will vote for a general no. Psyker sisters may exist but will be the exception, awakening theirs powers after induction. The reasoning is that most adepta use the services of the Astra Telephatica. I think that the only service with her own psykers are the Astartes.

>>57754217
>>57755339
Is SC short for the Adepta Securitas?

>>57754611
>>57754683
>>57759107
Although it's open to change, I'm also of the opinion that the Securitas don't knowingly induct psykers (exception being those who unknowingly slip detection and power up later). For psyker support they would liason with other forces, like the Eldar for things that require finesse, experienced Astra Telepathica agents if they can't get the former, or Grey Knights if there's some serious Chaos-related RIP 'N' TEAR business to be done. The thing is, psyker support wouldn't be necessary in lower-stakes missions, thanks to the augments and protective gear the Securitas already have access to, and on the high-risk missions where having a psyker can make the difference between a success and a total party kill for the elite Internal Affairs of the Imperium, an extra set of power armor is less cost-efficient if it isn't going to win the day in a magical dick-measuring contest.

Also, there probably aren't enough psykers to do the work of the Imperium as is, and diverting more Astra Telepathica youth from their intended duties likely isn't going to help.

>>57760489
Sanctioned Pskyers operating with guard units are a thing in canon, and probably more prevalent in this AU because of greater tolerance and commissars aren’t itching for an excuse to blam them, so experienced Sanctioned Psykers could get seconded to the Sisters for tours of duty.

>>57759107
>>57760489
>>57761385
This makes sense. Non-psyker Securitas eat Guard (which would be about the level of their typical enemies, if not PDF-level) for breakfast, so there's no reason for them to risk an easy win by invoking Perils of the Warp. Especially if the opponents are Chaos-corrupted.

If they need the extra kick they can always get the Grey Knights, a sanctioned psyker, or even a Minotaur Librarian if they're fighting Fallen. Psyker Securitas would be the few latents whose powers activated upon being exposed to the bootleg demigod organs.

Plus the majority of psykers get snapped up by the Black Ships and Telepathica.

>>57762603
In principle all psykers get snapped up by the Black Ships. They then get dropped off at Earth or, if way out there, nearest suitable training facility.

Sometimes young psykers will set out for the facilities of their own volition but that's juat doin the job of the Black Ships themselves. Bkack Ships happened in essence if not fact.

>>57754217
>>57754407
Ok, as one of the resident grumpy oldfags of this thread, my vote is a hard no for the Stern being a proto-Man of Gold stuff people are throwing out. No one in the setting has the tech to even get close to recreating the Men of Gold; even Fabius Bile, whose been working on it for millennia, isn't even in the same ballpark. More importantly though, people are straying from our core principle of not deviating too far from canon unless necessary for logic or thematic reasons.

This applies to the attempts to overhaul Stern's backstory as well, because honestly she fits decently into this AU without that many tweaks. She can stick pretty close to her canon depiction of an SoB who gets supercharged by the Screaming Cage, no half-baked backstory about being a Dark Eldar experiment required. A few changes that might be needed are the resolution to her story (no reason the Inquisition would hunt her in this AU) and maybe having the Screaming Cage be composed of psykers instead of Sisters (since in the Sisters aren't insane zealots in this AU and thus don't have the faith with which to amp Stern, and because GW has made Sisters their punching bags for long enough). Maybe there are some other tweaks that would help, but overall it's not a complete rewrite like some people are suggesting.

>>57738259
Not the guy you replied to regarding Karamazov, but on the topic of the warp drives I agree with him. There's nothing in canon that indicates there are special warp drives that outperform others to that degree (even the White Scars' ship mods were for realspace speed and maneuverability), and ultimately it's unnecessary for Karamazov's character. He can evade the Imperium by his own cunning and resourcefulness, which plenty of people do, and let's not forget space is a huge goddamn place. If someone smart and well-connected doesn't want to be found, it's a bitch and a half to find them in the vastness of the void, no sooper speshul warp drives necessary.

>>57763914
(cont. because I'm a long winded and opinionated bastard)

>>57762603
>bootleg demigod organs
SoBs don't have geneseed organs, they get chemical treatments and discrete cybenetics. Of course this augmentation process has it's own compatibility and failure issues which is why the Imperium can't give the augs to everyone, though I imagine they would still outnumber SMs 10:1 (100 million SoBs to 10 million Marines?)

Also not sure SoBs would be able to call on Grey Knights unless its an Inquisitor making the call. The GKs are busy enough as it is, and daemons are outside of the SoBs usual scope. Heck, unless it's a full incursion where everyone's needed, even normal SMs will probably defer to the GKs and get out of their way so the daemon killing experts can do their thing. (Obviously cases where the daemons are unexpected and come out of nowhere are exceptions, but you get the general idea)

>>57760489
The Screeming Cage, the weird mosntruosity that hypercharge Stern

>>57763914
hmm..Maibe i was carried a little as i write her background(My hardrive is full of weird ideas about Stern)..but it is a way to take away her power-level, Stern Codex and compensate the fact that in this setting the inquisition don´t want her head(and i am a sucker for more drama)
So moving from her past to other issues, are we going to make her a cannoness? In a quote about Jubousky is implied that she is. This can replace the powers and codex and give her something more practical. In the visions of Ahriman she command crusades against Chaos. So this can be what she is doing. She will a legendary figure of the sisters, taking the place of Saint Celestine. And one day she is given one mission that make her cringe the training a protection of a girl with wings...

Are there any named ratlings in Vanilla?

>>57763914
This is a good point. How can a bunch of Dark Eldar perfoming My First Atrocity get anywhere close to a Man of Gold when Bile and presumably others have been trying for years and failed. Plus the Men of Gold needed highly advancd psychic computers to build them.

I think having her as a latent still makes some sense, just in the sense that it explains why the Cage had such an effect on her. Especially since it's not clear how throwing someone inside a living cage is supposed to supercharge them when we don't have faith powers in this timeline.

Not the one who came up with the writing for Karamazov, but I think the weird Warp drive stuff (which experimental being in quotes makes me wonder if it was meant to be from a heretek or something) was to explain how the Imperium doesn't catch him in a week if he's at the top of their most wanted list. It also fits his character to use confiscated contraban and burn people for fuel if he thinks it will get him ahead.

>>57763984
Don't they have a couple of the ones that can be implanted in anyone? I know they don't have a full geneseed of any kind, hence the higher compatibility rate. The main augmentations I remember were reinforced bones, and glands that produced synthetic hormones to boost muscle mass among other things (and also being the source of the rage issues according to some critics). Some orders have "kill glands" that produce dopamine after a fight, but most frown on them and those that use them for obvious reasons.

>>57735826
It might only be a love story depending on who has the real Othonos. Assuming that either Othonos knows who the real one is.

I was thinking that the augmentation background of the sisters is somewhat limited. Another issue is who the Daughters enter in all this. So gentlemen here come...

Securitas Mark-I Augmentation packaged.
Contrary to popular opinion the mods of the Battle Sisters are not a single treatment. Most individuals who make this observations think that as this mods are derived from the Thunder warriors/Astartes series a male can take then. The short answer is no. The long is a little more complex. After was decided to create a female variant of the Astartes series, all the experiments by the AdBio end in failure after failure with a lot of tragic deaths in the middle. Sadly it was imposible to break the DRM protection of the Emperor genetics, and left the transhuman biology of the Astartes sex-locked. They then return to the Thunder warriors prototypes and look for something less powerfull and traumatic. And they hit a jackpot, the therapy used in the prototypes transformation and used as a base to Astartes implantation can be altered and aplied to females. And here come the irony, this process end as sex-locked as the original and is responsible of the characteristic Battle Sister "look" tall with white hair. This treatment was not as powerfull and beyond optimize theirs metabolism dosen´t have any visible avantage..because the true power is less evident. The therapy reduce the level of compatibility issues with others more standarized biomods. This capacity to assimilate a wide rank of mods has made posible to create a package of enhacements(The Securitas Mark-I Augmentation Packaged-SMIAP) that push the human biology towars the limits of development making the Battle Sisters what they are.

>>57768153
(Con)
Originally most of the early biomods were taken from a wide range of origins, including civilian and even Assasin enhacements(There is even a rumour of a Isha derived organ). But after a wile a standarized set of mods were created, lowering the costs and permitting that the Sisters were trained and deployed in all the wide of the Imperium. Was during this part of the development that it was realized that certains strains of humanity react in divergenct ways to the basic therapy. The most know divergency are the Daughters of Russ of Fenrisian stock that seems to activate ADN sequences of Canis Helix, and enhace the Valkyries whythout further modifications.

>>57768174
(Con)
So you want to know why if the SMIAP is so good in helping to enhance a woman, who we don´t have female space marines? Hmmm..A good question Timmy. The short answer is that The Commissariat want to create "recruitment posters and moral improving reading material" and a scarred mass of muscle who varely resemble a woman don´t seems to go with that ideal. The real long answer is a combination of medical, doctrinal and logistical factors. As the AdMech say "The flesh is weak" and biomods don´t have the same level of performance that the cyber equivalent, even whith the natural sinergy that offer the SMIAP there are limits beyond the flesh can´t simple go. Until we can unlocke the secrets of the Emperor genetics the Astartes augmentations will be only theirs. The second factor is that the sisters don´t fight in the same conditions that the Astartes, who were created to fight in the most brutal situations that can be imagined. The Sisters rarely fight prolonged wars or go crusading, they tend to fight againts irregulars. So the level of performance of the SMIAP is just plain inferior. As and aclaration, Sisters in long term duty in combat zones can expect to be further augmented. The third factor is the one that most persons don´t understand, they think that a guardsman is just a guy whit a gun. In reality a guardsman is the forge who build the weapon, the hyve who give the manpower, the farm who give the food. Behind a soldier of the Imperium there is literally entire worlds dedicated to his support. That level of infrastructure grow exponencially with the augmented forces of the galaxy, the sistes are saddly in the limit that made the cost-effective ratio of further augmentation just plain not practical.

>>57767345
I am Othonos!
No, I am! Please Celestine Help Me!
Hmm...What? ehm..Yes..Hmm..Of course.(To the sisters)I need then alive..for..Hmm,, further questioning

>>57768347
Celestine is not for lewds. Celestine is pure. PUUUUURE!

>>57769174
A word my friend, a simple word.
Polyandry

>>57769275
Her ambition before her wings got to large to hide was to become a Katholian nun.

It's more probable that she would be strictly monogamous.

>>57770440
It was a funny dream.

>>57771106
>>57769275
>>57768347
>>57733859
There could be a series of Carry On style films in the Ophillia Sector in which Celestine is the, or at least a, prominent character. They are full of racial/cultural stereotypes innuendoes that border on the gauche and the humour is based on misunderstandings and slapstick.

They have proven to be extremely popular and an improbably large number of these films have been made set in differing times in history, locations and with increasingly contrived situations to derive humour out of despite often not making sense.

Despite he popularity the studio responsible for making them seems to be operating on a shoestring budget and switches official address based on which planet has the best tax haven on offer.

Nobody has tried to sell them in the Ophillia system yet, than God.

>>57768153
This seems about right with what we said. Sister Augmentations created by the Imperium going back to the drawing board with the Thunder Warrior augmentations (which did not have geneseed or gender specificity [though they still were never really used on women due to the nature of the Unification Wars and people's views at the time] and had higher compatibility), stripping them down for quality of life and stability over HUGEness, adding in what little they could from the Astartes project (which wasn't much, most of the geneseed being gene-locked), with a few pointers from Isha to make things work better.

Another reason why Sororitas augmentations aren't widespread is because they are still pretty invasive and do cost money despite being less so on both fronts than Astartes geneseed. As many doctors will tell you, you never want to do a surgery you don't have to do.

>>57774093
Thanks. I want to continue and add some of their capabilities, but by the moment there isn´t a clear idea what they can do. The imagen i have come is that a Sister in power armor is a strong and tough as and unarmored Astartes.

Is it possible to get a qt3.14 Eldar Waifu in this setting?

>>57775635
Yes but it would be extremely rare. Happens more on Cadia due to the closer proximity, mutual hardships and all to often mutually short lives.

>>57775268
A naked space marine can lift a small car above their head.

A naked Sister of Battle is more on the lines of Captain America.

>>57775847
Brb, moving to Cadia.

>>57775847
Fuck. This guys are dangerous. If we go with the 1-3 Kill ratio, you need 6 sisters or 36 guardsmen to take down a SM. Scary..and inspiring. I have new ideas.

>>57775871
Are you sure you want to go to a planet in the doors of hell. Were war is constant. All for a weird looking space chick that at best think of you of a short lived pet-dildo.

>>57776214
Wouldn't that be 3 Sisters and 18 Guardsmen?

>>57776214
Whit that you only have around 50%..but probably you will need even more guards, as in canon a hundred of marines can take down a planet.

>>57776809
>>57776863
Sorry..correction. With augmented sisters you have around 50%. 6 Sisters is a 100%. Guardsmen are more variable but yes that many and luck.

>>57776863
You know it's funny, I literally wrote a blurb this week refuting the canon depiction of a SM chapter conquering a world. Since we're trying to make the setting more logical, I figure it's worthwhile to correct the GW writers' complete incomprehension of scale especially when it comes to military operations. Let me know if the following is any good:

“A Space Marine chapter conquering a planet? Have you been watching the damn holovids again, boy? Let me be clear so I never hear this foolishness again. Could we glass a continent given space superiority and a Battle Barge? Yes. Could we decapitate a planet’s leadership and destroy their infrastructure, leaving them to wither on the vine? Yes, within an hour. Could we shock and awe them into surrender if they are sufficiently cowardly or primitive? Perhaps. But make no mistake, if a planet has advanced to the nuclear age and the populace is intent on resistance there is no way 2,500 men can hold it alone, I don’t care if you’re the damn Custodes or Grey Knights. You simply cannot be everywhere at once; gather your strength, and they will simply rise up where you are not. Spread out, and they will overwhelm you with their numbers. Sometimes, quantity has a quality all its own.

"Subjugation and garrison duty is not our purpose. We are Astartes, Space Marines. We were made to tread the stars and go where others cannot. We are the tip of the Imperium’s spear, striking swiftly and mercilessly at the enemy’s heart. We are the Emperor’s Angels of Death, descending from the sky to slay nightmares so that others may dream peacefully in their beds. Leave the business of conquest and subjugation to the Guard. They have their duty, and we have our own.”

- Scout-Sergeant Kohl Leibhen of the Raptors, addressing a group of Aspirants

Bump.

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694 KB JPG

>>57776863
In canon Space Marines also slap bolter shells out of the air. Canon is weird and often inconsistent.

>>57778589
I like this. I really do.

Technically Kharn did conquer an entire world that one time, but it was a fluke and fell under "decapitate a planet’s leadership and destroy their infrastructure", "terror tactics", and "leaders were stupid enough to confront the angry Space Marine directly". If they hadn't been terrified enough to surrender Kharn would have probably gone down eventually.

Speaking of which, in this timeline, since most chapters try to aim for being "Reasonable Marines" (though what constitutes reason depends heavily on local culture), what is the Raptors' schtick?

I could see them being like reverse Blood Ravens, Raven Guard descendants who still specialize in guerilla and stealth tactics but are also known for their scholarship. The Raptor homeworld is also right next to the Tau Empire, so they might have some of the closest relationships with the Tau.

Also, does anyone else realize that the Raptor's chapter master is named after early Jurassic rocks in Europe and a bandicoot?

>>57776863
Things like plot armor and the situation itself can lead to some pretty crazy feats.

>>57778589
This quote makes a lot of sense. Astartes, while absolutely terrifying individuals in combat, are simply limited by the fact that they cannot be everywhere at once when fighting a numerically-superior force.

While a trio of sisters could certainly be defeated by an Astartes, in the process of attacking one SoB said Space Marine could also eat dozens of bolt rounds from the other two, whose entire set of strategies revolve around fighting dirty and are also armed to the teeth with anti-heavy infantry weapons like meltas, plasma guns, and bolters, along with useful little things like smoke and krak grenades.

>>57780520
That interpretation could work, their focus on stealth and being extremely adaptable to unpredictable circumstances would mean they are very effective at the role of "decapitate a planet's leadership". It doesn't really seem like much needs to be changed to make the Raptors fit in.

Would the Tau have accepted assistance from the Raptors in hunting down Farsight after they joined the Imperium?

>>57768347
One possibility is that Celestine actually knows to some degree who Othonos is because Othonos outright told her (at least as much as he could). Kind of like how in Dragon Age Inquisition Iron Bull immediately comes clean and tells the player he’s a spy because if an organization called the Inquisition never figured that out it would be kind of sad. Trying to tail a psyker, who could potentially read your mind, for months without them knowing, even if it is for benevolent purposes, is like an accident waiting to happen.

Othonos could have told Celestine who he was and intended to just be a person in the shadows, but the two genuinely ended up in love. Playing with a psyker’s heartstrings, especially one who is so high-profile on Ophelia, is another good way to end up dead.

It sounds kind of like Love Can Bloom, though the main difference in this universe is LIVII and Taldeer were already shacking up before Taldeer became Colonel. LIVII was assigned to protect Sturnn and mostly worked with Taldeer on specialized kill missions before that.

It’s kind of funny, despite being willing and able to do horrible things to people who don’t really deserve it for a good cause (see “The Hydra Uncoils” and the Omega Marines), A & O and their operatives can be real softies sometimes. They protect Oscar’s back, they were on good terms with Fulgrim, they helped the Geno Five-Two Chilliad rebuild. Just because they are mysterious and work for [DATA EXPUNGED] doesn’t mean they don’t have a heart, even if they have to repress it sometimes.

>>57781440
Possibly, possibly not. Ethereals have said Farsight is their problem to deal with, but that doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't accept help. Farsight is isolationist and so doesn't provoke the response to make it necessary to crush him like Blackheart did, and he keeps using TACTICAL GENIUS to make any attempt to do so a potential bloodbath and not viable. And he knows it.

>>57781601
If Celestine is a descendant of Sanguinius then it's possible that her psyker abilities are limited to distorting reality enough to fly and visions of the future.

Sangy could not read minds, he was just good at reading people. Not that this would stop Othonos from owning up if he thought he would get caught out eventually anyway. The rest of the Legion might not know that he has confessed.

>>57781601
The Ethereals might also be of the opinion that inviting imperial military into their patch migh not be as hard as getting them to leave.

How many militant sisters are? Because in vanilla you can form armies of then. In this AU they are augmented troops, and with the ratio of 3-6 sister for killed SM, if we have the same numbers they just can trow the chapters of the window. If they are more on tune with other elite force their tactics must be reworked.

>>57778589
This will give a weird realistic vibe to this more reasonable setting. The SM are asault troops to take down the harder enemies, but they need suport in the form of the guard. Is what it has been talking about the imperial forces being a lot more integrated in this AU.

>>57783166
It was mentioned in a previous thread that they typically use a squad ~10 (?) to hunt a single Fallen due to the buffs Fallen get and wanting to be sure. Also whatever underhanded teicks they can think of.

So if there are ~10 million Space Marines in this AU then there could be as many as 100 million sisters. Keep in mind that this is spread over a million worlds and fhey do a shit load more than just hunting marines.

>>57783511
Hmm..Yes i see. They are augmented SAS they don´t need the numbers of the army. Squads of SoB will be dispatched for spec.ops-like missions for the Ordo. Greater groups wil be rarer. As !Oh my god/s! incidents. 100+ Sob and the Guard will be used in insurrection scenarios and the like. 500+ a full detachmen will be (rarely)used with the full blunt of the Guard, Navy and Chapters in full war scenarios. They will be between Scions/Stormtropers and the SM in terms of the sort of missions they acomplish. The trainig probably will be a lot more complete, with non-militant sister secunded and augmented in the squad.

>>57783838
This does not include the non-militants who are unaugmented but do have discrete small arms and training in their use. In this AU they would be the ones running the Rhetor Imperia on the worlds that don't have the capability yet to have any real education in the hopes that it will speed their journey out of barbarity and into the true civilization.

Also running last resort hospitals, doing translation work and manipulating the comings and goings of the nobility to promote stability and find fault.

They are more discrete as they don't have any visible augmentations or power armour and their weaponry is usually the sort of things you can buy on the civilian market.

Some ideas before writing about recruiting and training:

Sisters recruit from the more advanced and populous worlds.
They will ocasionally admit candidates from other services.
They have higuer levels of education. With institutions dedicated to the training of young girls.
The schools have some of the most strict entry requirements in the imperium.
Genetic screaming is done at this level to determine potential for augmentation but is not per se a requeriment to enter.
Girls wanting to enter the Securitas do for a lot of reasons from the idealistic who want to serve the Imperium to the girl who whant to scape poverty. The securitas don´t care, they want motivated candidates.
Teaching go from 14 to 18
Sisters can transfer from non-militant to militant and viceversa. If you attack a detachment of hospitalers, you will meet augmented sisters yes or yes.
Proportion between N-M and M around 5-1
Training follow a more traditional academic or military regiment.
Novice training go for 18-21 after this they are considered full-time sisters.
Augmentation regiment take another 1-3 years.
Girls who enter the militant wing directly from school end training at 22-23.

>>57784434
I'd say that on some worlds the training/teaching can start as early as age 4 in that the sisterhoods are running the schools and Sunday schools and such and see no reason not to recruit from them.

Most of it is going to be highly general stuff; Geography, history, literacy, maths, basic medicine and other things like why Choas is fucking awful, cookery and the basics of whatever religious practice the sisters and probably the natives adhere to.

Then they trail off at age 12 to 14 to go get real jobs, often whatever their parents are doing, or more specialist training and apprenticeships.

The girls that show genuine promise by age 14, be it militant or non-militant, are then offered the opportunity to continue their education into more specialist territory.

>>57785873
Yes, probably in poorer regions that is all the formal education that childs can have. I think before 14 the schools are mixed. Promising students will be shiped of world to learning centers. In backwaters a sister can take a promisin child as a sort of aprentice until she can be inducted.

>>57785873
>>57786546
This can be one of the functions of the Dialogous, not only being academic and tranlators, but take the place of the Missionera Galactica in vanilla. Helping uplift planets and make that the general poblation have a basic education and understand the problems of Chaos. They are a reflec of the Famolous but for the masses.

>>57786593
>>57786546
It's also worth noting that they won't be allowed to augment before the age of majority. That varies a lot. On Cadia it seems to be 15 if the Black Legion fluff is to go on.

On other less desperate worlds it's probably higher.

>>57784434
>>57786980
The age ranks will be the normal in the worlds with good educational infrastructures and Securitas learning centers. NM sisters will be the ones who will be the most representative. M sisters age will be a lot more varied if we take in consideration that they can come from the NM and that not everyone react the same to the augmentation.
Cadian girls beign augmented at 15 is prety brutal, but IS Cadia. By the age of 10 Cadia kid s are brutal fighters, and early development is not that weird. Maibe their reaction to the SMIAP is similar to the Daughters, and they develop somewhat diferent. Shorter heighs? Warp resistant?

>>57787575
The only thing different about Cadians is their eyes.

You would have sisters with purple eyes.

Not everything gives you super powers

>>57787575
>>57787655
Yed..my bad. Chaos resistan is a bad idea. But early development in Cadian girls is realistic. Cadian SoB will be shorter and younger that others with a first line knoledge of Chaos. They are probably less educated that the girls from more secured regions, but in combat the are a nightmare. Others SoB will give then a wide and respectul bert.

>>57784434
A question. In this AU M and NM sisters are separated and send to diferent orders. Or ar just diferent wings in the same order?

>>57788417
Different orders, I think.

Which is not to say different orders do not strongly associate with each other.

Order of the Old Tree and Order of the Bloody Brier for example

>>57787575
What does SMIAP stand for?

>>57789342
>>57768153
>>57768174
>>57768195
Securitas Mark-I Augmentation package

>>57790004
If it's mk1 then they must have made more marks. If they have made more up to date versions why are they using the first version?

>>57791747
No idea. Actually i write that because sounds similar to the Astartes series. I have this vague idea that maybe there are variants or they are triying to create a more advanced version that always end creating monsters or something similar. That they never end near of creating female SM. But beyond that nothing.

>>57781440
The idea would be more keeping them distinct but retaining their core characterization as "Resonable Marines" in a universe where theoretically everyone is more reasonable. Much like what has been brought up with the Lamenters.

>>57782131
Othonos might not know she can't read minds, but better safe than sorry. Especially if she gets some vision that makes it seem like Othonos is a threat to her. The notes mention she seems a bit tougher than would be expected for a human with wings but at the same time rather disappointing when compared to Sanguinius, but it's not clear if this is psychic abilities or just how tough Sangy would have been from precision Jemanic genetic engineering if he didn't recieve the Mark III S geneseed at 17.

>>57786593
Did we ever decide if the Iterators were still around, given they do the exact same job as the Dialogous in canon?

>>57786980
>>57787575
Makes sense, given that it is Cadia.

>>57787795
Why would they be shorter?

>>57792628
This is a little complex. It come mostly from the mental imagen i have of the Cadians at that moment. They pass their lives in subterranean fortress(like Dwarfs) and being short si probably a good thing. Ad then the idea of and early maturing from ambiental factors, an the posibility of modding at 15. All this make the process don´t need to work as spected. Is just a quirk that make Cadian sisters somewhat short and stocky.

>>57793036
Aclaration..I was talking about being shorter in comparison with other Sob.

>>57792071
Could be that they are Securitas Mk4 Augment Pack.

Mk1 was the earliest. Little more than Thunder Warrior treatment for women. Theoretically far less buggy than the old Thunderers due to more accumulated knowledge on the subject but in practice the last person to actually work on the the Old Thunderers died thousands of years ago. This combined with the whole new set of alterations that were needed to account for anatomical and hormonal differences resulted in an equal number of whole new "quirks". At the time they referred to as the Godwyn-De'az due to Sister Superior Godwyn-De'az being the leader of the first successful batch.

Also famous for commissioning a new type of mass bolter. Before then human sized bolters were specialist pieces, hand made to order. With the arrival of a, more or less, human sized elite fighting force that were expected to wield such weapons this was no longer a practical option to say nothing of the expected ammunition shortage.

Mk2 was a refinement of the original with many of the original problems removed via trial and error and testing. It became clear that many genetic markers made the process unstable long term even if the initial procedure was apparently successful. Typically this would lead to Leukemia or bone cancer within the first 20 years, and an increased risk of 2condary outbreak in the subsequent 5 in the case of successful treatment, of service although other medical problems were often associated.

Pre-augmentation gene-therapies introduced via programed virus were developed in this time and used by anywhere up to 40% of new recruits depending on the genetic makeup of the recruitment population. Side effect of this was temporary albinism that would clear up in 6 months to 4 years. In a number of cases the hair would remain white. This loss of pigmentation was not deemed sufficient to warrant correction.

>>57793678
Although the Mk2 were a notable improvement on their predecessors in terms of health and long term viability they were far, far from ideal. The Mk1 and Mk2 were exercises in upping baseline human stamina, strength and reflex speed and very little else. The new batches of power armour were intended to take the brunt of the punishment from the foe and it was assumed by the directors of the project that most of anything that could break the armour would kill the sister wearing it regardless of how upgraded she was. It was not until several retirements and some internal suffering that the Securitas Project heads decided that this would simply not do.

Mk3 was an improvement in terms of durability as in addition to the reinforced skeleton precedent in the Mk1 and 2 the skin was threaded with a dermal micro-mesh that was painful and time consuming to install but proved it's worth for being stab and tear resistant whilst maintaining the appearance of normal skin to the naked eye. In time the threading procedure was perfected to the point where it could be applied to several internal organs.

A imitation Larraman's Organ was developed during the Mk3 stage. In truth it was little like the Larraman's Organ of the Astartes beyond effect and were in fact numerous lesser organs about the size each of a grain of rice evenly spread across the body. They released substances that would clot wounds with super human efficiency whilst and also produced and released something not unlike stem cells that would attach to damaged tissue and speed up recovery. Whilst nowhere near as effective as an actual Larraman's Organ it was a decided and welcome improvement.

>>57793898
What was not widely considered and improvement was the implementation of the "kill-glands". Such organs were intended to release a mild cocktail of pleasure inducing chemicals on the successful completions of a mission or vital task. In practice they resulted in the act of killing taking on a narcotic effect. They were dropped shortly after the first few trial batches and the "Chemo-Haze Spree" fiasco that saw the two squads of the Mk3 Securitas slaughter nearly three whole companies of PDF when they ran out of enemy combatants. (See report VIVACITY DAMNATION and subsequent trail)

Nevertheless some orders maintain that their benefits, with additional training and attention to discipline, are more of a boon than a liability and maintain the tradition of their use.

Securitas Mk4 Augmentation saw the introduction of a thin membranous organ located underneath the diaphragm. When implanted it is roughly the size and shape of a postage stamp and grows to fit the host. Typically they are all grown from a single regenerating sheet given one per order. The sheet is referred to as the Heart Shroud although it is called something unpronounceable in the High Tongue of it's creator. It is, at least in it's initial stage, semi-plant like and resembles nothing so much as a large dark green leaf.

The sheet requires sunlight to remain healthy and is typically kept in a clear nutri-gel solution somewhere where it can receive sunlight or sunlight mimicking rays if natural sunlight is unavailable.

The Hear Shroud was designed by the All-Mother and once implanted renders the recipient immune to all natural diseases and most unnatural ones also. Despite it's origins it is a fully mundane synthetic symbiotic organism with no warp presence greater than that of a common house plant.

>>57775847
>A naked Sister of Battle is more on the lines of Captain America.
Which version of Captain America?

Depending on series, Captain America benches 1200 kilos for reps. That's more than double the current world record for a single repetition, as his daily workout.

When he keeps the helicopter from escaping in that famous cheesecake bicep shot, he's restraining a helicopter that should have over 10,000 lbs of lift in excess of its weight, by doing bicep curls.

He runs almost 70 mph on his morning run in Winter Soldier, and during his frustrated punch on a canvas heavy bag, he delivered more force than 30mm Bushmaster cannon. If he had punched a human in the chest like that, he would have put his fist out their back.

I know his character concept is essentially "can equal every human record", but in much of his material he's at 200-250+% of the actual human records.

>>57794182
Further official work on the Securitas augmentations since the Mk4 have been concentrated on flaw removal rather than further improvement. Further alterations would result in an inefficient usage of time and incur prohibitive costs in effort, resources and recruit rejection rates per viable recruit.

This has not stopped individual orders maintaining their own traditions of further alterations in addition, the most common being artificial eyes.

The Valkyries/Daughters of Russ are suspected to be the result of technically illegal Securitas augmentation of unknown Mk reacting to genetic abnormalities common in Fenrisian and derived ethnic groups. Intentional attempted Securitas augmentation of abhuman groups is strictly prohibited after the Mordian Nightsider incident ████████REDACTED█████████████ and the ongoing problems that have resulted.

>thoughts?

Seems at last that we are making progress with the sisters

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Have we done anything about the Q'orl yet?

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>>57795345
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Notes#Q.27orl

The Q'orl are one of the last big powers to not join any major faction. The Imperium had tried to convince them to join but they refuse, the Queens seeing all other lifeforms as inferior. Occasionally the Q'orl pick a fight with the Imperium, the most successful of which was when the Imperium was distracted with other events.

At the same time they serve as a valuable buffer state against the Eye and team up with the Imperium in the event of a Black Crusade or Beast WAAAGH! out of mutual interest, which is why the Imperium doesn't bulldoze them.

>>57794183
Probably closer to the 200%. As in, yes technically a human could do that, but the average human would have to train their entire life to do it and more than likely only be able to do it once or twice in their prime like an Olympic athlete rather than regularly. But it's not outright superhuman like Spider-Man or Superman lifting a ton of bricks.

>>57793678
Wasn't Alicia Dominica the leader of the first batch of Sisters?

1st gen could be the initial run, stripping down the design so the recruits didn't get mass organ failure. Oscar worked on the first few generations of Thunder Warrior augmentations so they could have always asked him. It didn't produce the same level of results but the upshot was we didn't get a population of Mortarions and Angrons.

Do we still have SangyGuardsman's list of Sister augmentations and history? I liked part of the concept of "Isha's kidneys" that produced testosterone, estrogen (to balance out the testosterone) and an artificial hormone designed to regulate body functions and promote muscle growth. Thing is this is the same thing that has been suggested (though disproven IRL) to cause aggression in bull sharks. Critics point to this as the thing that is responsible for the Sisters' supposed rage issues. Others point out there are plenty of normal Sisters and the ones that are typically have reasons to be.

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>>57794327
It's good. You might want to go over it again for missing letters and awkward wording, but the augment descriptions develop a lot of ideas previously mentioned.

>>57796098
While Alicia Dominica was the founder and organizer of the Sororitas post-Age of Apostasy, it's unmentioned according to https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Notes#Sisters_of_Battle whether she was one of the guinea pigs for the testing process. As the keystone of a fledgling military organization, maybe Dominica would have waited until the stability and safety of the SMIAP was proven on people like Godwyn-De'az before undergoing the process herself.

>>57795345
Yeah, the Q'orl have gotten a little bit of attention. In the Notes section, they're a xenophobic, mildly-evil xenos society who prefer to stick within their corner of a sector, occasionally getting high-minded dreams of galactic domination and enslavement of other species that never go anywhere. A matriarchy, topped by a "Queen," forms their government. Emperor Oscar has been playing the waiting game with an offer to join the Imperium (which has been rejected because Q'orl master race, no one gets to lead the Q'orl except the Q'orl), and hasn't given the order to wipe them out because they tend to throw their hat into the ring when the Imperium is fighting Chaos, Orcs, and other enemies that the Imperium actually takes seriously, out of mutual interests and self-preservation kicking in.

In comparison to the Tau and Survivor Civilizations, they are complete nobodies who make the Severan Dominate think that they've seen some real shit, when in actuality the Q'orl are at the bottom of the Imperial to-do list.

>>57797017
I remember SangyGuardsman saying Dominica knew about the hair problem and was one of the people who wrote it off as not enough of a problem to bother fixing since future hair dye that doesn't suck is a thing.

Maybe I'll try to dredge the archives to see if the write up is still around for things we can use.

>>57796098
Securitas existed as an organisation before they got mods

>>57795213
I'd say so but not much. We have what they are and what they do but not how they came about nailed down.

>>57800130
That could work.

Alicia Dominica being Sebastian Thor's right hand woman from the start, founds the original Fraternis Militia and Sororitas Militia using loyal inquisitorial storm troopers as the core and first officers. Gets given the reigns of the protest march briefly whilst Thor goes off following the Black Ships on his wild Oscar hunt.

After the ~18 months of searching comes back to civilization with Oscar, Isha and Old Man Valdor to find that it can't be even generously called anything but Civil War.

Dominica be all like "things escalated a bit".

By the time they started looking into augmenting them Thor was 200 years dead and Dominica was the extremely venerable Inquisitor Alicia "the executioner" Dominica.

>>57801728
As a sidenote, Alicia and friends can come from some type of religious order. That is the reason the securitas are secular but have a shitton of religious nomenclatura. Similar with theirs "Big Brothers" who take afte Frank´s Knights inspiration.

>>57801007
>>57801936
Another sidenote. Alicia & compani come from a religious order called something like "Daughters of the ancestral sun" they are more or less what they were in canon, except that they never side with Vandire. Then a day Sebastian do planetfall in a burning ship and they help him. When the headhunters of Gore encounter then, is a carnage. The Daugters win but most of then are dead. They don´t have other option of go with Thor and try to repair the shitstorm that is the Imperium.

At the end of the AoA the Imperium is in a dangerous position. Sedition and enemy incursions are the norm. The Astartes are spread to tyn and the loyalties of the guard are murky. The Eldar don´t have the force or political cloud(A lot of Eldar think that Gore was a human problem) to repair the situation. The empire need a solution yesterday, and come in the form of the soroditas and the SMIAP. Initially the sisters will use the same equipment of the guard until the things calm down, but the combination of the wire range of equipment and augmentation give then the edge that is needed. Post AoA their caracteristic equipment will be created, but be that point they will have a mythical background that entrench in the power and social structure of the Galaxy.

>>57802083
Ok. It wasn´t a sidenote

>>57802083
The resurrection of what was at the time the Thunder Warriors (refined version) could have been a very reluctantly taken stop gap measure.

The Imperium needs a shit load of super soldiers fast but super soldiers are more resource intensive than regular soldiers. Need variety with a cheaper and quicker setup cost and will "retire" at the conclusion of the post-Civil War crisis so as not to keep hogging all the resources like creating millions of fresh Astartes would.

Because this isn't Grimderp 40k this is not a path taken lightly.

Also the Fraternis Militia would have received the Thunder Warrior upgrades, but would not have been part of the ongoing process after the first batch due to the Astartes being a thing.

Also "ancestral sun" makes me think of Ultramar and their veneration of Hera as the sung goddess. The spiritual sun being the warming light of a strong civilization.

Maybe they were or were founded by Ulrtamar missionaries.

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>>57794327
So the amended Super Soldier evolution tree should look like this?

>>57802834
Oh..Pretty.

>>57801728
>>57802083
Just to point this out, originally we had it where Dominica and her group were working for Vandire, and Sebastian Thor saw Dominica and her crew were decent people and had the balls to convince them to join his side. It kind of shows how Thor works, ballsy enough to try something crazy and smart enough to pull it off.

Although it could been that Vandire dispatched a goon squad to get rid of some literally who Inquisitor that was getting too nosy, only for said Inquisitor to convince them to bat for the other team. It works to space out Thor turning Dominica and her group and Thor's "wiring the Imperial Palace to blow to get Vandire's bodyguards to stand down" stunt, which otherwise would be really close together and don't stand out as much.

One bit of a continuity issue. Oscar and Isha didn’t get involved in the Imperial Civil War until the last few months, and just barely showed up in time for the Battle of the Imperial Palace. This is why the Civil War lasted as long as it did, both sides thought they were in the right (to be Lawful versus Good dichotomy) and there was no mutually recognized authority figure like Oscar around that could get both sides to stand down. This would imply that Oscar and Isha sat on Beach Planet for 10 years before deciding to do something about the fact that an Inquisitor just came up to them and told them Vandire has gone nuts and has gone full Space Stalin.

Didn't Thor live quite a while? He's been mentioned as one of the people to make it into Oscar's inner social circle through sheer force of personality.

>>57802083
The AoA and Civil War wasn’t just a human thing. If it was it the Eldar would have just walked away from the Imperium when it was all over. Some of the Craftworlds (we never figured out which ones, but pretty sure not Saim-Hann or Iyanden) posted Eldar bodyguards for Vandire, which they claimed was to try to put brakes on Vandire but other Craftworlds claimed was just those Craftworlds trying to seize power at the expense of the other Craftworlds, which is a big taboo for Eldar. Eldar were also a part of Imperial Guard regiments that committed atrocities in Vandire’s name.

On the other hand, I can see many Eldar trying to write the entire Age of Apostasy off as just a human problem and downplaying Eldar involvement because Eldar.

>>57802625
Maybe make it somewhere else than Ultramar. Ultramar already has it's legion building plot going on and sun worship is literally the oldest pantheon in the book (the Necrontyr pantheon was ruled by their sun god for Aza'gorod's sake).

>>57802834
Pretty much, yes.

Looking at that maybe we should pare down the number of versions slightly. It's kind of strange that the Securitas have 4 versions despite only being around for 4k years whereas it took Astartes only 3 versions in 10k years. Perhaps remove the "Battle Lust" ones as official variants, they're considered part of the main version but were just one additional gland. The ones who still use it use the entire package but just add one thing in.

>>57803816
Dominica was then a Hera the Sun Goddess worshiper, an order that Vandire adopted and militarized (It's not illegal if the Emperor does it and anyone who objects gets the rope).

Dominica him for a fair few years as his mental state deteriorates, eventually she admits to herself that he is bugfuck crazy but what exactly can she do?

Then the Civil War starts. She tries to be a good soldier. She tries to stay on the side of legitimate legal authority. But she just can't do it any more. She can't walk to work every mourning past a hundred gallows, every day a new body on each rope. She can't keep stating every day with half a bottle of cheap brandy in her gut to numb the pain. She knows that many of her sisters feel the same way, but she doesn't know how many she can trust. She doesn't know how many are willing to put morality over loyalty.

The man from the "unmarked office" says he can't be of help to her because he is successor to Alpharius and that crooked old man swore loyalty to the Empty Throne and so did he and if a mad man sits upon it then all they can do is try and mitigate the damage. But next day she wakes up with a stack of papers and a list of names on her bedside table containing those who would probably stay loyal and come with her if she ran. The documents were all photocopies and nothing was signed.

She arranges a meeting with Thor using the Void Born traders and the Diasporax as middlemen.

Thor convinces her of the rightness of his cause.

And that's how she and her sisters landed on the other side of the map.

Oscar and Isha didn't know anything about all of this.

Between them Thor and Dominica come up with their plan to track the Black Ships. They would have been able to win the war conventionally given time. They had popular opinion on their side even if Vandire had spent his time appointing his obedient little dogs to high office. But the Civil War by that stage was already outright and open violence on ~10,000 worlds and counting

>>57803942
Wasn't thinking it was in Ultramar. Just somewhere that heavily influenced by Ultramar Missionaries spreading the good news of Hera.

Trying to keep it away from Ophillia as they already have Lady Celestine.

What world would you rather she be from?

>>57804564
I agree Ophelia is also a bad idea. It's difficult to think of a good world because although there are undoubtedly dozens of sun-based religions in the Nobledark Imperium, in canon everything is some variant of Emperor worship. You could probably throw a dart and find one, aside from Baal, the Interex, Catachan, Ophelia, the Hubworld League, Nocturne, etc.

>>57804622
Picking a civilized world at random what about this one?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jollana

>>57804564
>>57804622
>>57804813
There's also San Leor, the world that Dominica was from in canon.

We could have a Knights of the Blazing Sun thing going on where they worship the Sun as a chief god and then his daughter, Myrmidea, is considered the divine first king (possibly in a Polish sense) of civilization, god of the sun (being a lesser aspect of her father), order, and war. And order during war. Unless this is taking a bit too much from Fantasy.

>>57802834
That chart needs a branch/step between early Astartes and Mk3 for Fulgrim's Mk2 based pseudo-Astartes modification suite that he build with the Gene Hippes that gets combined with the Deutch-Gemanic Genesimths' Mk 3S to make the final Mk 3. Going off the connections to Fabious Bile and the New Men, that would also be the link between Imperial Astartes projects and the human modification projects backed by Vect.

>>57805543
Would those count as legitimate things in their own right or just Chinese bootleg?

>>57804030
It would give the Diasporax something to do. As a culture of pacifist space hippies they must have been getting very worried by the recent events.

>>57806871
This is right. The Mk II was made by biodruids fleeing Merika and not by Fulgrim, his version was a bootleg copy only used as a stopgap for his own forces made from the technical data the Imperium funneled to him (or stole, can’t remember which) and his own tinkering. Mk III MP was the scaled down version of the III S made either solely by the Duscht genesmiths in collaboration with the biodruids who served to temper the genesmiths obsessive perfectionism.

>>57805543
This is kind of why I mentioned lumping some of the Securitas mods. Scholars in-universe might argue the semantics over which slight tweak, if Fulgrim's bootleg or the Carcharodon's weird habits count as a different models, or if a stabilizing factor in one gene by the bio-priests in M33 is enough to justify treating them as a different version, all would agree there is a difference between early and late model Thunder Warriors and early and modern Astartes.

The New Men could honestly be argued to come from a bunch of sources. They're modified to have the genes of a whole bunch of non-human animals like the Canis Helix soldiers. They're intended to be to humans what modern eldar are to proto-eldar by Vect (and are about equivalent to a Sister or an Eldar in strength). They were built off of what Bile could reverse engineer from Vect's Men of Gold data and Astartes geneseed like Astartes. They're a hodgepodge.

>>57809158
>The Mk II was made by biodruids fleeing Merika and not by Fulgrim, his version was a bootleg copy only used as a stopgap for his own forces made from the technical data the Imperium funneled to him (or stole, can’t remember which) and his own tinkering
From what I can tell from the timeline, Fulgrim's bio, and the Dorn ideas, Fulgrim stole designs of the Mk 2 and worked them into his own hodgepodge of vat grown organs and cybernetics for his troops, and later brought that to the Genehippes in California/Rockies to get their help turning it into a coherent and livable set of modifications. Dorn had already been made a Mk 2 Astartes by Imperial assets sent to him around the start of his rebellion, and they were also working with Kalbi Rockies genehippes to build up the precursors of the Imperial Fists in western Kalbi.

Fulgrim was contacted by the Alpha Legion/Hydra when he almost wrecks his own conspiracy, and goes back west to the genehippes to combine his designs with the Imperial Mk 2 designs he now has access to, though they are already in the process of reengineering the Mk 3S for implementation as the Mk 3. At this point the various genehippe enclaves the Imperium has been working with building up Astartes forces in Merika are involved in the process to temper the genesmiths and make their perfect bioweapons also work as holistic biological systems. The end result is the final Mk 3 MP, which is phased in around the end of Earth Unification, in time for deployment in some terrestrial pacification and campaigns of solar Unification.

Fulgrim and the Terra's Children are alluded to have kept improving their modifications well into the Great Crusade, and Fulgrim seems to work on immortality projects and obsesses over the old Human Dominion, the Cthonian Ring, Men of Gold, and routes to posthuman development. Much later, some of Fulgrim's technologists fall, Lucius becomes a C'tan vampire, and Bile goes to work for Vect on similar projects.

Housekeeping questions again.

People seem to like the Bloodtide story. Only question is do we keep the revised combat section here or leave it as is. Also how much do we tweak the numbers for the Grey Knights? Something like 30 or 50 I heard?

Does Jago Sevarian the Thespian get the thumbs up?

Marines Malevolent go on, right? Who do they come from (although no First Founding chapter will ever acknowledge them as descendants).

What else needs to be added? I’m having a hard time separating discussion from stuff to put up.

Also thread archived
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/57661171/

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So this is something I had been thinking about for some time ever since we mentioned the "human-level" Men of Iron who weren't connected to the Iron Minds siding with humanity and then dying of attrition through the ages. I thought it might be an interesting concept for a historical character but at the same time was wondering if it was too wanky.


“There is no level of madness that justifies such cruelty. Existence is the right of all sapient beings.”
- Generally attributed to Tiberius, date unknown

Humanity had more than its fair share of heroes during the Age of Strife. Many regressed human cultures had stories of such people, savior figures or legendary protectors, small candles of hope in the middle of the Long Night. Most are confined to a single world, but a few are known across many planets. However, one name, more than almost any other, crops up again and again throughout history: Tiberius. Indeed, the primarchs came upon the legend of Tiberius repeatedly during the Great Crusade, and in several cases used it as the basis for unifying the world. Like many legendary heroes of the Age of Strife, stories of Tiberius and his deeds are known across many worlds, to the point that he would have had to have been in several places at once if all of these stories were true. However, Tiberius has one advantage over these other legendary heroes, in that he was actually on all of these different planets at the same time. For you see, Tiberius was not a Man of Stone. He was a Man of Iron.

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>>57809947
Tiberius was one of the last Men of Iron to come off the production line to be incompatible with the Iron Mind network. For over two-hundred years Tiberius fought in the military of the Great and Bountiful Human Empire, mostly against Orks and other xenos species whose names would be unknown to those in the Imperium. However, with the advent of newer, more advanced models of Iron Men, who could be linked together through the Iron Mind network, Tiberius found himself obsolete. Like all the Men of Iron, Tiberius could restore himself from backup in the event of his physical shell’s destruction, but he could not be linked to the network without severely damaging his core systems. However, humanity was not so cruel as to destroy someone simply for being obsolete, reassigning Tiberius to garrison duty on a communications station on Earth.

As the Warp began to grow turbulent and the birth of Slaanesh approached, Tiberius noticed the increasing instability of the Iron Minds and Men of Gold and realized that something terrible was about to happen. Approaching the human technicians of the communication station, he convinced them to fork his mind as many times as possible and then send the copies of his mind to every planet they could. Hundreds of engrams were lost due to the chaos in the Warp just before the birth of Slaanesh, but hundreds more survived, downloading themselves into new bodies just before everything went to hell.

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>>57809968
When Slaanesh was born and the Eye of Terror opened the Men of Gold, Iron Minds, and every Man of Iron connected to them went mad, with only the primitive, human-level Men of Iron like Tiberius remaining untouched. As the synthetics around him descended into anarchy across hundreds of worlds, Tiberius picked up a weapon and prepared to go to war. Tiberius didn’t fight for humanity because of his programming. He had long outgrown such simplistic frameworks. He did so because it was right. Organic humanity had just as much right to live as their synthetic children, and if there was no way to save his demented brethren he could at least give them a mercy kill. On some worlds he fought alongside other heroes of the resistance, like General Augustus Perturabo, whereas on others he led the charge himself, inspiring people to rise up against the insane Men of Gold and Iron Minds and their artificial armies. Although he was not as advanced as the Iron Minds and the later Men of Iron, as a Man of Iron Tiberius was closer to them than any organic mind, providing invaluable intel on how a non-organic entity thought.

However, in spite of all these victories, Tiberius knew his time was drawing near. He wasn’t afraid to sacrifice himself for the sake of victory, but Tiberius could no longer restore himself from backup, and so every death of his meant one less Tiberius clone in the galaxy. This fact concerned Tiberius greatly, and although he could not feel it, he knew his duplicates were winking out one by one across the cosmos.

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>>57810081
Tiberius’ last death occurred on the planet of Thetis, 750 years after the Age of Strife began. The madness of the Iron Mind there had taken the form of extreme survivalism and self-preservation, manifesting in an intense paranoia that all organic life was inherently out to harm it and therefore the only way to survive was to destroy all organic life so that it could never be harmed. However, it never considered that another Man of Iron would want to do it harm. Having moved itself to a reinforced military installation, the Iron Mind was untouchable by conventional assault. The plan of the human resistance was to deliver a jury-rigged EMP device deep into the heart of the complex and fry the Iron Mind’s circuits. However, because of the Iron Mind’s madness no human could ever get close enough. Only Tiberius could do the job. When the Iron Mind found out it was furious and confounded by the idea that a Man of Iron would willingly compromise its own survival.

“Don’t you understand? When that bomb goes off it’s going to fry every electronic device within twenty kilometers of here. No synthetic mind will survive it. It’s not just going to kill me. You’ll die too.”

Tiberius thought long and hard for a millisecond before giving his answer the mad A.I.

“I know.”

Over time history faded to myth, and myth faded to legend. Tiberius’ legend gradually changed from a man made of metal to a man wearing a suit of armor. And so humanity completely forgot that of their greatest heroes against the Men of Iron was an Iron Man himself.

>>57810105
Thoughts?

General Perturabo can and probably should be changed. I thought I read somewhere that "the" Perturabo took his name from a DaoT general, though I'm almost sure looking back on it that was from a fanfiction. The point was that Tiberius wasn't the only well-known figure fighting the insane Men of Iron during the Age of Strife.

Thetis and the number of years Tiberius was active I just pulled out of my butt. I was thinking Tiberius' actions would have been on some world that has a large archaeotech cache, justifying why so much survived there, but all the ones I could think of (Savlar, Catachan, Medusa, Stillness) don't fit.

>>57810162
It looks great and gives a good feel of nobility and sacrifice. But yes please change Perturabo to something else.

>>57809785
Sevarian the Thespian is a good first draft and maybe if there was a note before it to that effect.

Grey Knights were 50ish

MMs need moar work possibly but its up to you

>>57810162
I really like it, it gives a great sense of adventure and nobility, and does well to establish the Age of Strife and DAoT in a more personal, social light. More to establish the flavor of the "classical era" and "dark ages" that help set the tone for the "renaissance europe" present day of the setting. I'd love to see more Old Night adventures that set up points of interest in the present galaxy, and Tiberius is the perfect sort of character to throw in to a cast in that time period to unify the era as a setting.

>>57810308
Any suggestions? There aren't any DaoT figures in canon (unless you count the vanilla!Emperor and Ollanius Pius). I can't figure out what naming conventions if any pre-DaoT humanity had. Probably something that sounds normal by today's standards. Of course, the Warhammer code seems to be "when in doubt, steal from history".

>>57810825
I’d say steal from history, particularly the history of peasant revolts, unruly commoners, and the ventures of noble but beaten up small folk. Humanity of the time is, as a rule of thumb, hardy and terrified Man of Stone folk and their faltering, low-brought rulers reigning from mostly wrecked palaces they can’t maintain or ruggedly fortified planetary holdfasts that have cropped up since the fall. Ships are rare, and the void born are wary, and the many many sects of Mechanicus hide in their cloistered monastic forged charging dearly for the least trifle. Horrible fey folk are abroad in the galaxy, as are a few horrible golden godkings and the temples of cruel black Iron they answer to, so momentous occasions of any sort are met with fear and trembling.

>>57811101
How about Li Tang, Hypatia Augustine, and Carl Martel? References to certain historical things, but at the same time similar enough to modern day to get the sense that this is "our" era that it happened in.

>>57810308
I was thinking just putting down the basics of
>On permanent penitent crusade
>Extreme pragmatists who think they're the only realists and everyone else is kidding themselves. Nobody, not even the Night Lords and Iron Warriors, like them for this because they jump the gun way too often.
>Whoever they're descended from refuses to acknowledge their existence
>Occasionally get a second chance due to galactic crises where the Imperium needs to call in everybody but inevitably screw it up.
>Latest fuckup was using civilians as Ork bait.

Bumping to agree with statements by >>57810308.

Perhaps the MM could be Iron Warrior descendants, with the pragmatism and disregard for non-transhuman life turned up to eleven. This is probably still a better view of the Marines Malevolent compared to their canon portrayal.

>>57814217
At the very least it has chapters that are on permanent Penitent Crusade beyond the Night Lords and their descendants.

>>57814217
For a moment I thought you had suggested the MM be Iron Hands descendants, which made me really want to explore the development of the Iron Hands and descendant chapters in more depth. Ferrus Manus is a weird mix of transhuman supremecist, obedient ‘robot’ servant of the Imperium, eternal champion of the Olympus Mons Brotherhood and bringer of innumerable forges into their fold, but hailing from the Antarctic Brotherhood and their Skitarri garrison, and in that he was a constant reminder of Earth’s domination of Mars and the Magos’ subordination to the needs of the Imperium’s armies and masses.

Their descendants would probably be some of the most experimental and transhumanist forces in the Imperium, and the most detached from other command structures because they won’t suborn themselves to sector command or forges they disagree with on arcane techno-clerical issues.

Bump.

>>57815861
How many Iron Hands descendents are there in canon? I know there was the one that split off due to the Moirae Scism, but that's about it. I think there was a suggestion that the Reclaimers were one in this timeline?

IIRC, the main things we have about the modern Iron Hands is that because they're Skitarii, they are a lot more variable than the typical Space Marine chapter and so can respond to many threats in a lot more specialized manner.

Again, IIRC, the big difference between Iron Hands and something like Thallaxi is they are not lobotomized servitors and still have full brain functions. It's a weird mix of power and responsibility, they are expected to be totally devoted to the Credo Omnissiah and the Martian orthodoxy but they are also expected to be able to respond and adapt on the battlefield. Which is why they recruit heavily from fanatics.

>>57818275
As many as the AdMech demand. At least one per forgeworld and probably more

>>57766959

Writer of that Fyodor blurb. Added that bit about 'experimental' warp drive in as an ambigeous note, a shout out, of sorts, to WH50k and 60k, and part to show that with all of his dogma and fanatical zealousness about the 'human purity', he was willing to overlook a few 'unsavory discrepencies'.

That and stealthily implying he was receiving... godly-favours (not that he knows) from the Big 4 (or is it 5?) because at the moment, he is a threat that can rip the Imperium asunder.

Is it ok?

>>57810162

Maybe what the Emperor found up the Himalayan vault was a faulty, degenerated, fallen copy of Tiberius? Makes quite a read, if anyone was willing to write, a conversation between one fallen hero and one rising one. And maybe a bit of mercy killing.

>>57818651
What was found in those mountains must remain a mystery

>>57818440
That depends, does our 10,000,000 SMs in this AU include Iron Hands successors or not? If it does, then 1 chapter of IHs per forge world would make them too numerous, given that chapters number around 2,000 and there are "hundreds" of forge worlds according to canon. I'm inclined to say that forge worlds number close to 1,000 given the Imperium has a million worlds (so Forge Worlds are only .1% of planets), which would put the IHs at just under 2 million making them almost 20% of all Marines. Too high.

If they're not included in that count, then it further distances the IHs from other SMs and makes their awkward spot in our fluff even more awkward. So I'm leaning towards the idea that they are included in the 10,000,000 count, and that there definitely is not 1 chapter per forge world.

Besides, there are other natural limiting factors to how many chapters there could be. Thallaxii are expensive and complex to produce (in canon it says that the Imperium may have lost the tech to make more of them by M41) and IHs are even MORE advanced and expensive to produce, so pumping them out en masse is probably not economical. Also, as this guy >>57818275 mentioned, the some distant forge worlds with their raging micromanagement and authority issues might not be too keen on independent forces that are mostly loyal to Mars, and thus would not be keen on having a chapter stationed on their planet. Of course, the IHs and Martian AdMech DO want IHs on more forge worlds to keep an eye on things and lay down the law, which might lead to an interesting tension.

>>57818651
I was going to suggest we treat it like we have Vect's Raid on Cthonia.

Officially, Tiberius is 100, no, 200% dead. No secret hints of any copy of him surviving. But if a GM running a campaign in the setting wants a reactivated copy of Tiberius to be a plot point, well...

>>57818722
cont.

>>57794183
>>57796098
I don't think it's super helpful to make the comparison to Cap as his depictions are all over the place. Ultimate Cap fights Spidey pretty evenly in Civil War, and Spidey dodges bullets and lifts like 50 tons.

I think the Spartan comparison is most accurate. As far as I know, Master Chief's top canon feat is flipping a 3.25 ton Warthog with his armor buffs (probably maxing out at about 5 tons at the highest end). SMs can do that out of armor.

However, an armored Sororitas potentially could have lower feats than armored Spartans due to the fact Spartans get buffed by their Mjolnir suits, while Sisters don't due to no Black Carapace. At most, a Sororitas' power armor is effectively weightless, which is still super helpful because they're not weighed down or slowed by their gear.

If people think this makes Sororitas too weak, feel free to reply.

>>57818855
Sounds about right for the sisters.

What's the best way to score a qt3.14 Eldar Waifu in this setting that doesn't involve going to fucking Cadia?

>>57819186

Exodite world. Heard they are qt3.14 country valley girls, too. as long as you can deal with their spear-bearing, velociraptor-riding, eternally-pissed-off paranoid crazy uncle and her barechested knife-nut jungle ranger older brother and oh her dad who's looking down at you through the sights of a super-poison arrow and bow and he's very itching to have you... lost somewhere on the way home.

Still much better odds than Cadia.

>>57818722
It could be that the Iron Hands after the WotB were folded into the Skitarii totally either immediately or over time.

As they are basically what every soldier of the mechanicus wants to be they are just seen as a natural progression of the Skitarii Promotion = Upgrades ladder.

They are no longer counted in the ~10,000,000 SM estimation due to being a strictly Mechanicus force. The Imperium proper does not know how many there are because it's a sliding scale between a baseline cannon fodder and the brain in a robot hyper elite. Also the Mechaicus are not good at sharing paperwork.

The Imperium knows there is a lot of them. That's about it but that they have fractured along the same lines as the Mechanicus internal divisions.

How do the Nightbringer and The Deciever view each other?

>>57821326
Deceiver was the one to convince Nightbringer to start eating other C'tan, though it's an open question as to whether he still thought it was a good idea.

>>57819186
>>57819254
There's also Saim-Hann, which are...actually nope, they're pretty much the same but with jetbikes.

>>57819186
Being LIVII

>>57819186
What is your offer? For what i understand male Eldar can "do it" for days...i think that maibe you are out of your league. She can think that you are cute in the same way that a kitty to a octogeray. But most Eldar will think that the chick is in bestiality. Understand Mon-Keigh?

>>57822347
I just realice how much i suck in english. I´m trully sorry if native speekers hate my guts for this.

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>>57822347
If he was a Mon-Keigh, he would have to be like 65 million years old, so the age issue would be on the other foot. Of course in that case there are much more serious concerns like ancestral hatred and the...eating issue.

Unless you mean mon-keigh. In which case yeah, although in this universe it's less bestiality and more most eldar just aren't into that kind of stuff.

>>57819186
>>57823943
Another thing is that eldars and humans are...aliens. They probably view us as deformed midgets. And for us they are to..perfect. Mentally Eldar are for our point of view squizofrenic geniuses. Us? singleminded morons. Cadia and Taldeer/LIVII are special cases and even the people that understand the cirscunstances see this as a very weird thing. The situacion with Cadia is a sort of "We are going to day..so why not?. Taldeer is pathloss at a young age and has pass more years with humans that eldar..she is from the point of view of other eldars/humans ..to weird., like she was triying to be something that she is not. So other historys like Love Can Bloom ar a no no thing. NSFV histories are strangely a lot more common.

>>57818722
So it could be that they are hyper elite Skitarii that Mars retains the know-how of how to make and only gives them to the Forgeworlds it approves of most.

>>57818722
According to canon Forge World defenses are far from standardized. Some use Skitarii whereas others use combat servitors, Legio Cybernetica robots, armed tech-priests, etc. I could see Forge Worlds that aren't too fond of Mars using some of these because they don't want to have a bunch of heavily-armed Martian political zealots hanging around.

This numbers are taken from Deathwach rpg and the extrapolation that sisters use light power armor and they roll 10 in strength and toughness.
Brother without armor:
Carriying-112k Lifting-224k to 1350k in a heroic effort. pushing-448k to 2700k in a heroic effort
Brother + armot
C=675k L-1350k to (beyond)4500+k P-2700k-(beyond)9000+k
Sister without armor
C=67k L=134k-224k P=268k-448k
Sister + armor
C=90k L=180k-674k P=360k-1348k

>>57825812
As and aclaration this is whit the sisters having inferior genetal atributes and lighter armor that the brothers but interesting the same level of unnatural streng. But this are system rules.

>>57825793
It’s worth noting that some of them might be Schismatic political zealots, and it would be fun to have at least one chapter attached directly to the AdBio, as a testing apparatus as much as a combat force. One chapter might have renounced Mars as emphatically as possible and started hanging around the Savlar system trying to win the favor of that order to be close to that sweet sweet neutronium. Also any chapter that goes too far in their modifications, or even more likely, displeases an influential cleric with their degree of independence, could be itself declared Heretek, cast from Mars’ good graces, and forced to find a new patron or else rely on the munitorum for supplies and sector commanders for orders. The Antarctic brotherhood probably still keeps a significant honor guard on Old Earth, and really I think that the Iron Hands are a perfect place to add back in the mad faith militant, intrafaith conflict stuff that defines canon 40k, without it spilling over and infecting the whole setting.

>>57826510
Would the Antarctic Brotherhood not have been subsumed into the Mars Mechanicus?

New thread
>>57828105
>>57828105

>>57796098
>As in, yes technically a human could do that, but the average human would have to train their entire life to do it and more than likely only be able to do it once or twice in their prime like an Olympic athlete rather than regularly.
With regard to the bench press record thing, doing 250% of the world record as a normal rep is similar to doing 350+% of the world record for a single rep, because you don't do your 5 rep max as a daily lift.

And the record wasn't set by an Olympic athlete in peak condition, it was set by a dedicated lifter on every performance enhancer their system could handle.

So it's miles beyond what an unaugmented human can accomplish, which is fine, but in Deathwatch, a naked starting character, but still fully fledged, Marine can lift 1350 kg. If that's a dead lift, he's actually weaker than Cap (as a balanced lifter can generally dead lift around 60% more than they can bench) but if it's an overhead press, he's about 20% stronger than Cap because a balanced lifter can generally bench press about 40% more than he can overhead press.

So if you use Cap as a baseline for SOBs, you probably need to pick some of the weaker iterations of the character to keep from horning in on Marine territory.