>>59183244
>>59183510
I will think more about this the espionage theme for them. I think my problem was I was too focused on what the Blood Ravens are in canon instead of what they could possibly be here. I actually had something for Kyras written where he did fall traitor, but I personally don't like how I written it out.

>>59183440
How much individuality does a single gene-stealer have?

>>59183770
They do do other things as well. They took part in the Kronus campaign.

>>59183440
My stuff got mentioned in a recap! Great!
Now I may have to be somewhat less lazy in putting out more content on a consistent basis. Not so great.

>>59183244
Is there something wrong with my last post here? >>59181234

Or is there something wrong with asking if their las-carbines are somewhat more powerful then canon, like I sorta did here? >>59181291

Is this post here the problem? >>59181064
I can kinda get being bothered by the missile with fancy explosives in it or whatever, and maybe to some extent the PDF having access to carapace, but I could very easily see the Drop Regiments having ready access to light carapace armor and their las-carbines packing a bit more punch then standard imperial las-guns. But, we don't have to do any of that either if it majorly conflicts with the project.

I'm genuinely curious, I'm not interested in stepping on any toes lorewise. It's just that in vanilla Elysia isn't exactly well-fleshed out precisely.

>>59184439
I would assume the precise same amount as they do in canon, unless there's a particularly pressing reason for them to have more or less individual personality in this variant setting for some reason.

>>59183440
OP, this should be part 56.

>>59186212
Not that guy, but I'm wondering if what it was was the suggestion that Elysium is going full Starship Troopers. I don't know.

>>59186442
Damn it not again.

Honestly, the stuff regarding how Eldar armored formations cooperate with their Imperial counterparts and also the infantry could use some further fleshing out, possibly even some writefagging.

>>59186790
I can see the Eldar armor acting as scouts and opportunists, using their evasive capabilities to survive long enough to relay coordinates to the Imperial Artillery, and sniping targets of opportunity, before quickly falling back before the enemy takes enough shots to land that inevitable 10%-chance direct hit.
the Leman Russes would move up in more or less a line or spearhead formation, supporting the Eldar marauding while constantly moving forward, slowly but surely pushing the field of combat into the enemy force, and taking advantage of the disarray and advantages provided by the Eldar to mop up the survivors.

Given Eldar Webway access, they might be better able to reallocate forces faster and more precisely than the Imperium can through Warp-travel. Thus, while not an official combination of forces, it is common to have Eldar tank squadrons ready to respond to and assist several different worlds that lack the industry or finances to field their own tanks; these worlds instead focus on infantry and artillery, to support these tank squadrons and to take advantage of the spotting capabilities of the Eldar tanks to direct their artillery right into where it will do the most damage.

This is a headache to keep organized, and likely to not go to plan, but it's an attempt to compensate for the simple inability to have everywhere be equipped for armored warfare. Generally restricted to worlds that aren't in enough danger to be Fortress worlds, nor vital enough to justify the expenditure of resources to fully equip their defending forces, yet still important or useful enough that their loss would be detrimental. Considering the scope of the Imperium, the number of qualifying planets is still more than even this system can keep up with.

>>59188122
This is good as well, now all we need is for somebody to bash this together with the stuff from the last thread and then put it up on the wiki.

>>59188122
I would assume that whatever passes for Eldar mechanized infantry would also participate in these assaults in some way as well. Maybe hitting lighter targets of opportunity?

Now, what about a force like the steel legion? Would they work with Eldar armored and mechanized infantry in a way similar to how Eldar leg infantry work with foot slogging Imperial regiments?

>>59188122
>>59189082
It was also mentioned eldar tanks have the added benefit of being able to fly and flank. Allowing them to do things a typical tank battalion couldn't.

So an eldar-human armored formation would be like "yo I heard you like mechanized cavalry, so I put mechanized cavalry in your mechanized cavalry so you can flank while you flank".

>>59189733
I like it. It shows potential for easy envelopments when paired with Steel Legion style forces and also could be something that would allow for lots of cooperation with Elysian Drop Regiments.

Now, how precisely do super-heavy tanks fit into all this? Do eldar have their own equivalents? If so or no, what sort of diversity of eldar opinion do you see on the super-heavy tanks fielded by the humans of the Imperium?

>>59189876

In my opinion, Human's Super-heavy tanks are a whole category above normals. They are like whole moving, fortified firebase in term of worth and firepower, and much more so for their capability to self-propel and redeploy. They can be equipped with earthshaker cannon to wipe out whole regiments and scatter armies, or anti-armor gun that can gut Destroyers if given the chance or enough smaller guns to rival regiments. Unfortunate is, they are slow as fuck and if not properly supported they can be destroyed or worse - captured. Whole campaigns had their sole purpose to destroy a Chaos-aligned Super Heavy or worse.

Another thing is, they are super effective in overcoming terrain, even more so than some Eldar vehicles. They are like all terrain vehicle that can climb an incline almost verticle or submarine under an opposing river or lake or even ocean. See a mountain range? Climb it with Super Heavy. It's FUN to rain down fire on unsuspecting Chaos troops from top of impassable terrain or suddenly speed up from under a lake to take a Chaos lord by surprise. Creed himself was known for his once deed of stopping a minor Black Crusade by hiding a Landrider underneath a mountain of scrap, just waiting for the leading Chaos Eldar to appear then WHOP! Creed'ed.

>>59190970
Interesting ideas.
>>Creed himself was known for his once deed of stopping a minor Black Crusade by hiding a Landrider underneath a mountain of scrap, just waiting for the leading Chaos Eldar to appear then WHOP! Creed'ed.
lol anyway
>>Landrider
Do you mean a Land Raider? That brings another question to mind, how many Land Raiders are in service with the Imperial military? Are they ferrying guardsmen to the battlefield and then providing fire support or are they only ferrying VIP units to the battlefield and then providing fire support?

>>59191938
They're probably not too common. Not Space Marine only, but definitely reserved for elite units.

>>59190970
CREEEEEEEED!!!!

Alright, posting the latest revised parts of Blacklaw's background.

Blacklaw's earliest raids were against lightly defended targets and were largely indistinguishable from the simple, yet ugly cost of doing business in an area prone to piracy. The attack that brought him to the attention of sector level authorities was a daring raid on the planet of Elysia itself that had been cleverly masked by multiple diversonary raids on outlying bases/facilities. This raid was in truth not massively destructive, however a large number of people were either killed, wounded/maimed or captured by his gang, this led to the freshly promoted Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Logann Powler to begin a hunt for Blacklaw and his band that would draw in a considerable amount of Imperial manpower and war machines, along with "private contractors", plus an eldar corsair fleet led by Logann's wife, Elrana, culminating with the supposed death of the now infamous Freebooter on an icy planetoid in the fringes of the Elysian system.

cont

>>59192732
cont

Blacklaw's band was much reduced during this raid, and the Freebooter himself was severely injured, losing an eye, leg and hand to an explosion that was assumed to have killed him. It took the wily Kaptin time and effort to rebuild his band after this severe setback, it took considerably less time for one of the local meckboys to give him the standard orky prosthetics. ("Polly" survived these events unharmed, and Blacklaw continues to dote on his parrot and much to said "parrot"'s dismay.) Some 10 years after this defeat, after a good deal of scheming, plotting and other assorted Skullduggery, Blacklaw and his now renewed band of freebooters are back in the business of "kunningly" killing people, smashing things, and stealing other things.

cont

>>59192742
cont

His attacks have been drawing ever increasing amounts of Imperial attention, Logann and company in particular want him dead and gone for real this time, in spite of this, he has shown himself to be surprisingly resilient either avoiding assassination attempts/deathwatch assaults or setting a highly successful trap for his hunters. The Imperium, and the Elysian authorities in particular are committing ever increasing amounts of military force and espionage efforts to the destruction of Blacklaw and his freebooterz, Logann and Elrana's force is just one of the groups hunting him. It is only a matter of time before matters are brought to a conclusion of some sort, with Blacklaw either being driven out/killed or Him establishing his own little mini-empire in a place right where the Imperium and the Elysians in particular do not want such an empire to be. However, this moment of decision may still be a long way off as the Elysian Warp Hole draws greater amounts of attention then his mid-sized band of freebooterz. He and his band have also been known to do mercenary work for various unscrupulous patrons. Although, again, He and his boyz will have nothing to do with Chaos gitz.

fin for now

>>59192721
Yeah, Oscar never made a silly Land Raider decree in this AU, and they are still being produced because the tech wasn't stolen and destroyed in the HH. Also, Space Marines are much less likely to be deployed as front line combatants compared to canon so they have less use for Land Raiders, only keeping them for specific situations. That said, they are expensive/rare enough that only veteran regiments from well-equipped worlds will be fielding them, like for Kasrkins or the elites of the Armageddon Steel Legion.

>>59192732
>>59192742
>>59192762
Any thoughts? I'm going to add a bit more stuff to Logann's background next, including minor mentions of his and Elrana's friend in the Deathwatch, his killteam, that naive Tau Shas'O commander and his force, then I'll move onto Elrana and her background.

>>59192781
cont.

>>59188122
Opportunists, yes, but using them as scouts would be a massive waste of their capabilities. Other cheaper units are equally mobile and can scout, whereas an Eldar Falcon tank is pretty much a Leman Russ with more accurate weapons that can fly at 500mph.

>>59186790
>>59189733
>>59188122
Since this topic came up again, gonna copy my comment from the last thread regarding potential Eldar armor doctrine:

>Eldar tanks are equally as tough as Imperial tanks due to wraithbone construction and absurdly mobile, as the Lexicanum says the main battle tank of the Eldar, the Falcon, can reach speeds of 800 kph and has limited flight capabilities. So on top of their normal armor role, Eldar tanks could actually have a secondary role of providing close air support if the bombers and fighters of the Navy aren't available.

>Off the top of my head, any doctrine around Eldar tanks would probably aim to exploit their huge mobility advantage over the armor of any enemy species, so strategically they could be used in an uber-Blitzkrieg, being able to exploit even small breakthroughs in the enemy lines thanks to their mobility and firepower. In canon, Elysian drop regiments are sometimes overrun by opposing forces because the main Imperial forces are unable to reach their positions in time a la Market Garden, so the mobility of the Eldar armor would allow to Imperium to quickly reinforce forward positions.

>Tactically, they would probably excel in skirmishing roles, crushing pockets of unsupported enemy infantry and retreating before enemy armor could arrive, or tank-hunter roles, since they could literally fly circles around enemy armor, as well as providing close air support when the situation demands. Their only real limitations are their rarity and logistical complexity, since I imagine wraithbone and grav engines are a whole lot harder to fix in the field than the systems of a glorified tractor.

>>59192811
Thanks for this, saves me the effort of trawling through the archives for it. Any thoughts on this post here>>59189876
specifically:
>>Do eldar have their own equivalents of super-heavy tanks? If so or no, what sort of diversity of eldar opinion do you see on the super-heavy tanks fielded by the humans of the Imperium?

Here's a rather important question:

Crone World Eldar comprise a significant chunk of Chaos forces in this setting, right? Have they been detailed in anyway? By which I mean what do their armies consist of exactly?

Vaguely chaos looking Dark Eldar types with Daemon support?

>>59192781
It's probably like with the Dreadnaughts and the Hover Bikes. There are no factories that stamp them out or mass production lines where you just have to get the local engineseer to tinker with the finished product for use by any specific group like you have to do with the las-cannon triggers so ogryn can use them as a las-rifle.

With the high end shit you send a specialist workshop a letter requesting one of their products and they add you to the list as they see fit. The workshop is typically a collection of highly trained adepts and a couple of apprentices who specialize in that sort of thing and some time later you get your things posted to you.

>>59193208
I guess I need to be more specific with this question, obviously this here https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Forces_of_Chaos
Describes what sort of soldiers they have, but how would you go about modeling these things?

>>59192722
CREEEEEEED!! is still the crownless king of Cadia and the men who do not kneel and that is a wonderful thing.

>>59194529
Crone Eldar aren't Dark Eldar, so they usually don't go into battle half naked. They have access to most of the old military equipment of the Eldar Empire, even if their ability to build the more advanced stuff is...dodgy, at best.

Most of the Crone Eldar forces described so far wear some degree of armor. I remember reading something about visiting the Crone World of Arach-Cyn in canon that made me think "this is exactly what Cronedar armor should look like". Basically spiky and chitinous. I would say most often made of ghastbone, and Cronedar armor oftentimes either doesn't come off or the Cronedar in question wouldn't want it to come off. Not many cultures are hedonistic enough to build suits that stimilate your nervous system.

>>59194963
Does he have a proper entry on the wiki?

>>59195610
So you'd need lots of greenstuff, tools and conversion skills in order to make them? Or you could just do counts as I suppose.

>>59195621
Not yet.

Given that the tyrannic wars have happened in this setting as well as canon, I would assume that the ultramarines as well as any other space marine chapter on the frontlines against the hive fleets has some sort of "tyrannic war veterans" unit or something similar, right?

That is, specialists who are familiar with the servants of the hive mind and know how to kill them.

I asked last thread about how space hulks are cleared out in this setting, and I'll ask this question again because I'm genuinely curious. Is it still just a job for Space Marine Terminators or do other Imperial forces(including various aliens, obviously)get involved?

>>59195926
The 'nids have been assaulting the eastern fringe for centuries with varying degrees of intensity. It is likely that the majority of the chapter has fought against elements of the Hive Mind at one point or another, thus being a tyrannic war veteran is not something special among the Ultramarines.

Undoubtedly there will be specialists within the chapter, as in Vanilla, who specialize in bub slaying to a degree not strictly adherent to the Codex but by 999M41 there would be two major factors on this force; 1) Ultramarines and all the Space Marines treat the Guilliman's Big Book of War as a set of guidelines. 2) they would have started the specialization a lot longer ago and now it is not a fringe sect of obsessive nutters but a venerable institution with it's own time hallowed traditions.

>>59196910
Space Hulks contain the relics of all the elder races, humanity among them and many of them want their shit back. Now when a Space Hulk translates into a system it's a race from various factions to get the first tether on it. First one to make physical contact with it in the form of either setting up a camp, docking or getting a physical tether (even if it's just a harpoon on the end of a long chain) gets legal rights to it with all the bullshit and riches that this brings. Typically the race is fought between the AdMech, who still try and claim that all Space Hulks should belong to them because they invariably have an old Earth ship in them somewhere and that makes them theirs, and the Demiurg who have the same elite skill as the Dutch when it comes to getting a line on a derelict ship for salvage rights.

Typically the Demiurg don't have the numbers even with their clockwork toys to make effective use of an entire Hulk and so have to hire copious amounts of outside help and distribute most of the material salvaged among them, keeping the interesting shit for themselves.

>>59197179
>>Space Hulks contain the relics of all the elder races, humanity among them and many of them want their shit back. Now when a Space Hulk translates into a system it's a race from various factions to get the first tether on it. First one to make physical contact with it in the form of either setting up a camp, docking or getting a physical tether (even if it's just a harpoon on the end of a long chain) gets legal rights to it with all the bullshit and riches that this brings. Typically the race is fought between the AdMech, who still try and claim that all Space Hulks should belong to them because they invariably have an old Earth ship in them somewhere and that makes them theirs, and the Demiurg who have the same elite skill as the Dutch when it comes to getting a line on a derelict ship for salvage rights.

>>Typically the Demiurg don't have the numbers even with their clockwork toys to make effective use of an entire Hulk and so have to hire copious amounts of outside help and distribute most of the material salvaged among them, keeping the interesting shit for themselves.

This is all very interesting, but what about Gene Stealers and their cults who might be stowed away on board the Hulk in question?

>>59197426
What I mean is, do all the imperial factions rely on Space Marine assitance to clear out threats like that, or do they have their own Terminator equivalents to do the job for them or does it depend entirely on the circumstances?

>>59197179
AdMech, bar the fringe and minor orders, do have the manpower in-house to carefully dismantle a Space Hulk into it's constituent parts; carefully extracting old Imperial ships for reconsecration and renovation and sending the rest of it to the breakers yard. What they lack is the willingness to die if they can hire local plebs to do the heavy lifting for them. They get paid on job completion to a prior agreed upon price.

The only other two big groups in the Imperium who habitually hunt Hulks are the Void Born and the Diasporex. Diasporex will winkle anything off the outer layer of the Hulk preferably without having to set foot on the bloody thing too much and are perfectly happy to share the rest with anyone else.

Void Born prefer to stick to the parts of the hulk without working gravity and allow anyone else access to it for a small cut of what they take from it to the exclusion of the parts they earmark as exclusively theirs.

The other big variable on Hulk prospecting is the time it remains in real space. Typically hulks drift through the Warp until they intersect a gravity well then they translate back to realspace. They drift through the gravity well until the gravity gets nice and low again on the other side and then translate back. This can take decades at least and in that time it's a grab what you can buffet. If the prize on the wretched thing is valuable enough someone might be willing to foot the expense of nudging it into a stable orbit. This is effectively the end of the Hulk as over the coming generations it will be picked apart until nothing remains.

Eldar generally don't give a shit. Non-elder, even other psykers, have trouble using eldar tech so their shit has a surprisingly low resale value and they just buy it back after others do the dangerous work.

>>59197455
You can call in the Space Marines but they hardly ever answer unless the prize is beneficial enough to the Imperium as a whole to justify their presence.

>>59193208
I think it would be less spiky bits stuck on and more sleek edges with razor sharp edges.

>>59197426
I imagine that they all have their own answer to such problems, even if it is avoidance and loss cutting.

A well armed, armoured and trained squad of Vespid Mother's Champions would probably win against a pack of Gene-Stealers.

How had Creed changed in this AU? As the Crownless King of Cadia it can be inferred that the Black Legion is at least somewhat under his influence if not direct control.

File: 1520036565495.jpg (86 KB, 1024x980)

86 KB JPG

Are there any notable Eldar/Space Marine pairings in this setting?
...Heck, now that I think about it, do we have many notable names among the Space Marines that aren't already dead or so old they're running out of time? I'm glad it's not a space marine wank setting, but we've got enough other stuff established that we can probably afford to give the "modern" marines some attention, or notable names.

>>59203311
Which ones would you suggest?

>>59195638
Incubi with swapped out heads and lots of greenstuff would be the best bet. I don't know what you would do for a Meatweaver or a Nightmare though.

Crone armor being wired to your nervous system does have one practical upside, it's a hardsuit that lets you keep your sense of touch. Of course the Crones don't really care about practical benefits.

>>59197179
This would be a good way to give the Demiurg some more love.

>>59203311
Sevatar, Titus, most of the Ultramarines for that matter, and Kor'sarro Khan come to mind. But we do have a lot of old people piling up at 999.M41.

>>59202141
Cadia is said to be heavily Ulthwe influenced and that appears to extend to Creed as well (TACTICAL GENIUS is certainly the Ulthwe way of doing things). Ulthwe claims that Creed is currently the only human alive today that deserves the title of autarch (partly becaue of skill, partly because of the nature of Cadia). Biel-Tan says Ulthwe should stop trying to shove its moral values down the other Craftworld's throats.

>>59197179
Behemoth showed up in...late M36, IIRC. I think there are some specialist groups. Scythes of the Emperor, for example, are probably specialized tyranid hunters.

>>59193063
According to the Lexicanum and Wiki, Eldar have the Scorpion and Cobra tanks which are their super heavies; I don't know their in-game statlines, but judging from their lore they are incredible maneuverable and quick, with a max speed of 260 kph, but comparatively less tough than Imperial super heavies like the Baneblade. Apparently their cannons can one shot Leman Russes and buildings.

Doctrine wise, Eldar super heavies would fit in nicely with what I mentioned already in my previous post, which is based partially on modern armored warfare doctrine which is centered around exploiting breakthroughs in enemy lines and using mobility to out maneuver enemy static defenses.

Imperial super heavies though are a different ball game. As this anon mentioned, >>59190970 they're honestly more like a mobile firebase. (I'm going to assume the canon speed of 15 mph top speed on roads is not true, because most GW writers are functionally retarded when it comes to any sort of warfare knowledge or sense of scale.) Given their absurd toughness and firepower but limited mobility, I imagine Imperial super heavies would be used in a semi-WWI fashion to punch through enemy defences instead of going around them, making them useful in pitched battles for those who subscribe to the "decisive battle" doctrine. Major limitations are obviously their speed, and relative vulnerability to air attack. To deploy them, the Imperium would need air superiority or significant AA support, though the super heavies themselves probably have significant AA capabilities; modern T-90s can shoot timed airburst rounds to provide limited defense against attack helicopters and such.

>>59206061
cont.

Side note: since we're going with the idea that Imperial super heavies can climb mountains and such, my head canon is that the anti-grav/whatever other climbing systems are large an can only fit in a super heavy's chassis, precluding their use in Leman Russes, Land Raiders, etc. They're probably not better than Eldar vehicles at navigating terrain though, since Eldar vehicles can, y'know, fly.

>>59186212
>>59186722
This is the grumpy oldfag. Yeah, nothing specifically against what you said, Blacklawfag, it was more that other anon's suggestion to go "full Starship Troopers" that irked me.

>>59197895
>>59200685
Yeah, we’ve said that SM Chapter Masters answer to the Segmentum High Command that they operate in, so you’d have the put the request up to High Command, and then the Chapter Master himself would have to deem it worthy.

As part of the rationalization of this AU, I think we've also mentioned that Terminators are not the go to unit for clearing Space Hulks, since it makes no sense to use a highly valuable, unmaneuverable unit in a location with a high attrition rate that penalizes them most for being slow and lumbering. In fact SMs in general are probably not used too often for Space Hulk clearing unless there is a confirmed sighting of a Carnifex, Greater Daemon, or some other nasty that other troops can’t handle. For normal Space Hulk operations, the Imperium is much more likely to use Stormtroopers or elite naval armsmen (who would be used to the low-grav corridor fighting) using close range, maneuverable weapons like shotguns, flamers, and meltaguns, and the other species have plenty of units that could fill that role as well.

>>59206099
cont.

>>59193557
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense though, just because the AdMech are dogmatic doesn't mean they've forgotten the ideas of the entire Industrial Revolution. Cruise ships today are produced using production line principles, but obviously their rate of production is limited because they're so massive.

Not to mention, I think you may be overlooking how huge the Imperium and its needs are. The Guard by itself numbers in the quadrillions, and super heavies are inevitably fragged everyday in battlefields across the galaxy. Even if you had several forge worlds producing super heavies you would probably only be barely keeping up with demand.

>>59205493
I was thinking of maybe a couple of Chapter-masters for the "current" marine chapters; we've got history for what they were up to during the Great Crusade and War of The Beast, but very little has been written about what the Marines are currently up to.
Maybe one of the Chapters has a "young" (only two centuries or so of service) Chapter-master, who while undeniably qualified has some quiet criticism of being too aggressive, or too willing to skirt and bend the rules in order to get results. Or maybe rather than being young, he's 'middle-aged,' but has been planning and aiming for Chapter-Master since he was young, and now that he's got the position is quickly setting about remolding his chapter to his liking (and to the disconcernation of the older Marines who liked the way things were).
Of course, maybe it's better to think smaller; a single Space-Marine squadron that consistently operated within the same area as Eldar of a specific craftworld for so long that now the two groups all but unofficially merged; the Marines will answer the call of the Eldar, and vice versa.

Maybe have a group of Psykers in yellow armor who aim their psychic abilities with a single raised finger.

My point is, we've got plenty of history, so let's have a bit of a "where they are now."

>>59209105
>Of course, maybe it's better to think smaller; a single Space-Marine squadron that consistently operated within the same area as Eldar of a specific craftworld for so long that now the two groups all but unofficially merged; the Marines will answer the call of the Eldar, and vice versa.

Silver Skulls. Fortify the entrances to the Webway and have close ties to the eldar, to the point that in the event a civil war ever broke out along species lines the Skulls might be more likely to side with the Eldar (Tallarn, Cadia, and Colchis are in the same boat).

>Maybe one of the Chapters has a "young" (only two centuries or so of service) Chapter-master, who while undeniably qualified has some quiet criticism of being too aggressive, or too willing to skirt and bend the rules in order to get results.

Titus delendo est.
--Leandros, probably

>Maybe have a group of Psykers in yellow armor who aim their psychic abilities with a single raised finger.

Angry Marines exist as an in-universe Saturday Morning Cartoon that is essentially an over-the-top bastardization of the Blood Angels 1st Company, who swear an oath to be ALWAYS ANGRY, ALL THE TIME. How they will react when the cartoon becomes known is unknown.

But I agree on the point that more on what the chapters are doing now might be good.

>>59206061
This is useful information, and I would imagine those eldar super-heavies would be even more useful at the jobs their regular tanks do.

>>Imperial super heavies though are a different ball game. As this anon mentioned, 59190970 they're honestly more like a mobile firebase. (I'm going to assume the canon speed of 15 mph top speed on roads is not true, because most GW writers are functionally retarded when it comes to any sort of warfare knowledge or sense of scale.) Given their absurd toughness and firepower but limited mobility, I imagine Imperial super heavies would be used in a semi-WWI fashion to punch through enemy defences instead of going around them, making them useful in pitched battles for those who subscribe to the "decisive battle" doctrine. Major limitations are obviously their speed, and relative vulnerability to air attack. To deploy them, the Imperium would need air superiority or significant AA support, though the super heavies themselves probably have significant AA capabilities; modern T-90s can shoot timed airburst rounds to provide limited defense against attack helicopters and such.
This is also good information, but I still haven't gotten an answer to what sort of opinions you see from eldar about stuff like the baneblade and other human imperial super-heavy tanks and other, similarly large, treaded vehicles.

>>59206099
>>As part of the rationalization of this AU, I think we've also mentioned that Terminators are not the go to unit for clearing Space Hulks, since it makes no sense to use a highly valuable, unmaneuverable unit in a location with a high attrition rate that penalizes them most for being slow and lumbering. In fact SMs in general are probably not used too often for Space Hulk clearing unless there is a confirmed sighting of a Carnifex, Greater Daemon, or some other nasty that other troops can’t handle.
This is the only part of this AU I don't like entirely, and if we're specifically talking about Gene Stealers, I thought Space Marine Terminators were the only human force that could really stand up to them in Close-Quarters combat.

>>For normal Space Hulk operations, the Imperium is much more likely to use Stormtroopers or elite naval armsmen (who would be used to the low-grav corridor fighting) using close range, maneuverable weapons like shotguns, flamers, and meltaguns, and the other species have plenty of units that could fill that role as well.
I'm not really opposed to most of this for clearing out space hulks that only have lesser threats in them, but wouldn't shotguns be of somewhat limited utility against some of the nasty shit you'd find aboard a space hulk? If anything I'd expect the standard "elite naval armsmen/Storm Trooper" kit for working on-board a space hulk would be: Bolters, Hotshot Lasguns, Flamers and Meltaguns. For personal defense I'd imaging they'd have some sort of carapace armor coupled with personal refractor shields.

It was said in the previous thread that the main thing about the Calixis sector is that it has been overrun by maggot men, right? What about the Koronus Expanse?

Here's the canon details: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Koronus_Expanse

Also, there's a warp portal in the Jericho Reach ( detailed here http://warhammer40k.wikia.com /wiki/Jericho_Reach ) that connects the Reach with the Koronus Expanse and the Calixis Sector. I would assume that the Eldar know about this portal in the nobledarkness as much as they do in canon, and may have either built it, or have some interest here.

Oh and the Jericho Reach is also where the Hadex anomaly is located http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hadex_Anomaly
Might be good to look into this as well. Possibly it's a good base for Croneworlders, Fallen and Chaos Guard + other assorted chaos forces.

>>59206099
>>59210197
IIRC, the Blood Angels going into the Space Hulk was noted as weird even by 40k standards, and was due to them trying to fall on their sword for some perceived failure.

That said, Astartes are about the best people available for going through a Space Hulk, just probably not the ones wearing irreplaceable armor that blocks hallways to the point that line of sight is obstructed. I'm not sure if one of the major advantaged of Terminator armor, teleporters, even work in space hulks due to them being so warp saturated. There have been quite a few arguments on both sides on what the most "reasonable" way to clear out a space hulk is, see:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Space_Hulk#Space_Hulk:_Reasonable_Marines_Edition
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/SpaceHulk

The Relictors in canon used servitors to map the hulk for the most dangerous areas (though they underestimated genestealers hiding from them). You could probably do the same with servitors that explode.

Also IIRC Chaos likes to mine space hulks for parts in this timeline. Not sure how much the Crones because they have programmable matter, but even they might raid it if they need adamantium for something.

>>59212972
This is all well and good, seriously. But I thought Genestealers just tore right through standard power armor? Plus that second link you posted seems to mention at least a few good reasons to send in the guys with the terminator armor. That said, I would guess it's possible that standard space marine armor in the Nobledark has the sort of radiation shielding that only terminator armor has in canon.

Also I would like to officially withdraw my complaint about shotguns being of little use in a space hulk after reading this. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Shotgun

Sweet fuck it's like somebody from /k/ has been writing 40k weapon information.

>>59213209
If genestealers tear right through standard power armor, then wouldn't it be better to just send in heavily-armed, lightly-armored expendables? Space Marines aren't exactly in high supply, while a couple divisions of bog-standard soldiers with better weaponry are an easy investment.

>>59213209
>>59213262
This guy gets it >>59213262. Of course a Space Marine is objectively superior to a Stormtrooper at clearing a hulk, but relatively speaking is much less efficient to use him in this scenario.

Also I’ve always find the canon depiction of Genestealers ripping through Termie armor like paper to be a bit much. My own personal headcanon is similar to the horde shooters like L4D and the Deathwing game: one Genestealer is almost harmless to a Termie, but getting surrounded means the Termie will die in seconds as they pull him apart from the joints. (Going through the actual armor plates seems ridiculous since they can shrug off anti-armor fire)

>>59210080
Probably how they see most other Imperial tech: noisy and unrefined but damned useful and reliable. I dunno man, I’m not the definitive authority on this, I wrote that post in an airport lounge and I’m still pretty jet lagged. If you want more detail you’re gonna have to write it yourself.

>>59213634
>>Probably how they see most other Imperial tech: noisy and unrefined but damned useful and reliable. I dunno man, I’m not the definitive authority on this, I wrote that post in an airport lounge and I’m still pretty jet lagged. If you want more detail you’re gonna have to write it yourself.
Fair enough, I didn't mean to stress you out. I'm not all that great of a writer though, so I guess that will have to do for now.

>>59213262
>>59213634
Except that space hulks are also hazardous for other reasons, various environmental hazards and warp hazards that would make more expendable troops practically useless on those hulks that need to be cleared in an emergency. Plus who says that they could actually succeed against something like a genestealer cult in the first place?

>>Also I’ve always find the canon depiction of Genestealers ripping through Termie armor like paper to be a bit much. My own personal headcanon is similar to the horde shooters like L4D and the Deathwing game: one Genestealer is almost harmless to a Termie, but getting surrounded means the Termie will die in seconds as they pull him apart from the joints. (Going through the actual armor plates seems ridiculous since they can shrug off anti-armor fire)
This is possible, I suppose. And would make genestealers comparatively speaking less formidable to the point that lower-quality troops could deal with them.

>>59205627
Aren't the Scythes dead?

>>59205627
>>Titus
The guy from that space marine game, right? Has he had a write up added to the wiki yet or is it somewhere in the threads?

>>There were a few soldiers that were saved, slightly more than a regiments worth. The nearest they had to a commanding officer was Commissar Gaunt, later Colonel-Commissar. From the remnants of the military of a dead world enough were left behind to form a PDF adequate to the meager population and an undersized regiment that could be used as the core upon which to build with offworld recruits and taught the Tanith way of war. Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt never forgot what Prince Yriel had done for his adopted people and swore an eternal oath to the Corsair Prince. An oath the Corsair Prince was mostly indifferent to.

So what happen with Ibram Gaunt after this? Are he and his specific Tanith regiment active and smacking around chaos forces or are they all just camped out on New Tanith training other regiments?

>>59214216
Still in the threads. There was still some discussion about the extent of his Primaris reforms and the accompanying hyper-militarization of Ultramar and his relationship with Mira.

>>59215250
The Tanith 1st and Only are still tooling around the galaxy. They could retire to New Tanith but pride prevents them. Gaunt leads them.

>>59210197
>I thought Space Marine Terminators were the only human force that could really stand up to them in Close-Quarters combat.

It's a matter of attrition and probability. A Terminator is more likely to survive a 1v1 straight up fight than any other individual.

But a guardsman with a lucky shot can still take one out but 'Stealers hunt in packs so that's not super useful unless he has friends, the element of surprise and something bit like a melta.

>>59203311
>Are there any notable Eldar/Space Marine pairings in this setting?
I dunno, but Tigurius would be the most fitting one of the marine characters we have now to have such a relationship.

>>59214167
Presumably still mostly yes

Here's something to consider: The orks are harder to corrupt into chaos gits then humans can be corrupted into cultists, right? The orks still largely worship the gorkamorka, right? You could say then that orks and chaos are fairweather friends under the best of circumstances, arguably at least.

Here's the sticky part, does the Imperium realize this and if so have they attempted to take advantage of it in any way?

>>59217905
Presumably so given how long they've been fighting and note taking. The Carcharodons in this AU are known for their pre-emptive decapitation strikes against growing WAAAAGH!!!s. A good and effective strategy for them could be targeting all the popular and competent leaders and making it look like a rival faction so that you end up with not only the cluster fuck of an orkish succession crisis but also internal sectarian violence that will see the number of orks halved by the time it is over.

>>59217905
>Orks and Chaos are fairweather friends under the best of circumstances
This is pretty much true. The main way Chaos uses Orks is to point them towards the general direction of the target and then giving them a wide berth so they don't get WAAAGHed too, then following to finish off the weakened defenses.
>Does the Imperium realize this
There's probably some fairly accurate understanding of the general relationship between the two among some of the higher-ups in the Imperium, though for the most part it's more of a footnote because it doesn't really change the fact that they're Orks.
>Have they attempted to take advantage of it in any way
Tried, and in the case of some spec-ops type missions to find ways to blunt an incoming WAAGH probably succeeded, because they're Orks and are thus willing to fight any good target if they have an excuse. As a wider strategy, and in more immediate concerns when they make planetfall, there's not really any way to take advantage of it because again, they're Orks. The Chaos forces are hiding way back there because they know how willing the Orks are to fight them too, the humies and longears are right here with ground they have to hold, let's Crump the ones here and then maybe go get the ones hiding behind us. A WAAGH is a WAAGH, and the Chaos forces can afford to keep their distance while the Imperium has to try and hold their ground.

>>59218138
Figured as much.
>>59218173
What about using some sort of cleverly disguised agent to direct someone like Ghazghull(sp?) against the chaos forces? I would assume there's been at least one or two attempts at getting the gorka morka orks to WAAGH into a daemon world.

>>59216740
Or a bloody great Demiurg clockwork spider ship pulling it apart from outside into digestible chunks

>>59219174
I think it was decided Tuska Daemon-Killa is about the same as canon, because that is too good to pass up. Ghazzy's a bit too kunnin to be used as an unknowing catspaw.

Chaos will occasionally make alliances of convenience with the Orks, mostly in terms of "we show you where the best fightin' is and in return you don't krump us". These also don't tend to last long because, you know, Orks, but both sides expect the other's sudden but inevitable betrayal.

In-universe Orks are often seen as Chaos related simply because they are so easily manipulated, even from an out-of-universe perspective they're clearly not.

This is one of the main problems with the Brain Boyz. The Orks are getting smarter, more interested in their own goals, and are becoming less willing to take what the spiky panzees say at face value. They are much less willing to run headlong into fights that aren't fun (for them) anymore, and in some cases the Crones have had to (shock, horror) negotiate. The idea of the Orks becoming a political player in their own right rather than an easily manipulated proxy state is worrisome to the Crones. That's one reason why Malys allied the Dark and Crone Eldar with her marriage to Vect: the Crones need another source of military power if the Orks can't be controlled.

>>59220301
Interesting information, it sounds like the Brainboyz are an important part of the setting, so where's all the information on the nobledark versions of them?

>>59220301
Don't forget the increasing number of Bug Boyz

>>59220661
I know they've been mentioned, but I don't think we have anything on them beyond 'they exist'.

>>59219174
There are also Imperial Nobles with backing from some Craftworlders wasting their fortunes trying to civilize Orks in heavily secured quarantine colonies. This is generally based on the idea that if Orks can reason then surely they would pick Imperial ideals of civilization and culture, if properly communicated to them, over Chaos, which they are known to chafe under. This is essentially built on a very limited and minimized view of the influence of Whaagh effects and the Gorkamorka, and still pictures Orks as a pliable proxy.

We also had some discussion of the Imperium's difficulty understanding the Brainboyz. We decided on something along the lines of Imperial translations of Orkish are generally miss a lot of nuances, and in general Ork socialization is pretty opaque to the Imperium, so they are still laboring under the conclusion that Brainboyz would be singular super-orks, not a bonded pair. They don't grasp the duality of Gork and Mork within the Gorkamorka, and they dont know the difference between brutal kunning and kunning brutality. Brainboyz actually function on the same principles as an Ork shoota lacking a firing pin but still working for its user. As the parts of the bonded pair perceive each other's ideas and machinations they project onto each other greater mental acuity and speed via an intense Whaagh-like psychic field. The output of this loop, plans and designs distilled from Ork-thought and the foam of the Warp, feed back into the Brain Boyz minds and self perception, heightening the Whaagh-like field.

So Brainboyz lie somewhere between biological seed AI that can bootstrap itself, and pun-pun. LIke the Gorkamorka, every blow to the head makes them smarter.

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I heard someone wanted codex entries on Brain Boyz beyond what we have on the Notes page. I thought I'd take a shot at it while working on Ullanor.

Brain Boyz are perhaps the greatest threat to the Imperium to come out of the Orkish menace in recent years. The greenskins have produced numerous threats over the millennia, including the numerous Beast WAAAGH!s, Armageddon Wars, the Wyrd War that decimated the legion Terra’s Sons, or the Black Croosade [sic] called by the Chaos Ork Rotfang Badgut, but these were often sector or segmentum-scale threats, none of which could compare to sheer destruction wrought by the War of the Beast. Some, particularly in areas that saw relatively little fighting during the War of the Beast, were foolish enough to say that the Orks were no longer capable of posing any organized threat to the Imperium, despite the Orks being responsible for the most brutal conflict in Imperial history. Orks were often seen as little more than cannon fodder, little more than mercenaries or catspaws of greater powers like Chaos or marauding distractions from more threatening adversaries like the Necrons or tyranids, not to be underestimated but not capable of being a significant threat on their own (no matter what the ravings of the inhabitants of the Sol system and its nearby territories had to say). All of which had to be reassessed when Brain Boyz made their reappearance on the galactic stage.

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>>59222248
Most inhabitants of the Milky Way, or at least those who have any idea of how the greater galaxy works beyond their own little world, have a general understanding of the Ork life cycle. Ork spores gradually orkiform the world, a single spore capable of germinating into a variety of different morphotypes depending on the availability of nutrients and the strength of the WAAAGH! field, producing first mushrooms, then more complex orkoid organisms such as squigs. Then snotlings appear, followed by gretchins, followed by orks. A complete self-sustaining ecosystem and war machine. What most don’t know, however, is that there is an additional stage to the Ork life cycle. Eventually, the Ork population reaches a “critorkal mass”, which prompts the development of a new Ork caste: the Brain Boyz. Orks become more intelligent the more of them there are, but Brain Boyz produce a quantum leap in Ork functionality, increasing the intellect of all orkoid lifeforms around them just by their sheer presence. The appearance of Brain Boyz in an Ork WAAAGH! is often heralded by an increase in the sophistication of Ork technology, including the appearance of more advanced Ork devices such as reliable tellyportas, attack moons, and gravity whips as the WAAAGH! field becomes strong enough to unlock the knowledge hidden in their genetic code. Indeed, many Great Crusade-era Warbosses, including Urlakk Urg of Ullanor (a.k.a. The Beast), the Mekboy Warboss of Gorro, and Gharkul Blackfang of Gyros-Thravian, all of whom ruled over Ork empires even more advanced than Charadon, Bork, or Octarius are today, could be seen as proto-Brain Boyz in a sense. Although the presence of Brain Boyz does not preclude the creation of these devices, their production certainly increases following their appearance.

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>>59222265
In the past, the appearance of Brain Boyz was a cyclical thing, like a tidal cycle. Over the course of thousands of years, the Ork population would grow, the WAAAGH! field would hit a critical mass, and then Brain Boyz would appear. The Orks would then mostly unite under a single banner to wage WAAAGH! on the rest of the galaxy before being beaten back and the Brain Boys hunted down and destroyed (typically at great cost), returning the Orks to square one. Typically this was done by the Old Eldar Empire or in later years the Interstellar League of humans and their allies during Dark Age of Technology (for which Brain Boy WAAAGH!s were one of the reasons the League formed in the first place). And so the cycle would repeat itself. However, after the Fall of the Eldar and the Age of Strife, there was no longer any eldar empire or league of species to prune back the Orkoid menace. It is estimated that had the Great Crusade not set out when it did, in half a millennium or less Brain Boyz would have re-emerged with no checks on their power. This estimate might have been even lower if the WAAAGH! forged by the Beast had managed to hold. The great Beast ironically did the galaxy a favor, setting Ork back several thousand years by rushing headlong into war with the Imperium.

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>>59222301
What the rest of the galaxy also don’t realize is that Brain Boyz are not just Orks with added kunnin’. Brain Boyz occur when the WAAAGH! field is high enough that a single Ork spore divides into twin zygotes. This isn’t exactly uncommon, Ork spores twin all the time, but typically these are chance occurrences whose products grow into two orks or two gretchin. Brain Boy spores are produced by induced twinning and grow into two different Orkoid lifeforms, an ork and a gretchin reflecting the duality of orkiness: brutal cunning and cunning brutality. Often, the ork will start out runty and the gretchin will come out particularly large, due to the gretchin twin taking up nutrients that would otherwise go to the Ork (though in the case of Ghazghull and Makari both came out particularly runty, likely due to the circumstances of their birth). Typically, this twinning is not immediately noticed, Orks typically don’t make it a point to record where a particular boy or grot is born after all, but the two Brain Boyz know each other on sight and are in constant psychic contact with one another (similar phenomena have been noted in eldar and human psyker twins). That said, most Orks instinctively recognize Brain Boyz once they reach some level of prominence. This ork-gretchin duality is just as practical as symbolic. Few would suspect a gretchin of being capable of altering the behavior of a WAAAGH! If the ork Brain Boy is killed, the WAAAGH! doesn’t instantly collapse from in-fighting and the sudden loss of brainpower. If a foe knows about the gretchin Brain Boy, they are often too paranoid about the gretchin Brain Boy to notice the ork one putting a choppa in their face.

>>59222676
That's all I got for now, might add in some more about the translation issue and the increasing fear of the Cronedar but that is going to take some archive dredging.

>>59222248
>>59222265
>>59222301
>>59222676
I like it. Definitely hits the nail on the head with the average citizen or bystander assuming the Orks are little better than cannon fodder or catspaw distractions, rather than players in their own right.

Bump

>>59222248
>>59222265
>>59222301
>>59222676
Very nice, this should probably go on the wiki somewhere.

>>59220301
For anyone who hasn't seen this yet: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tuska
Orks are ballsy motherfuckers for a species that reproduces asexually.

Has the relationship between Craftworld Lugganath and the SIlver Skulls been detailed in any of the threads at all? The stuff in the notes section is rather vague.

Secondly, a more generalist space marine related question: What sort of religious adherence do you typically find among space marine chapters in this setting? I would imagine that eldar polytheism is popular with the Silver Skulls, but what about other chapters? The Blood Angels likely follow that baalite wheel faith, and the Space Wolves are likely adherents of some form of polytheism. What about the rest of them?

>>59217874
What nearly wiped them out in this timeline again?

>>59192786
>>59224382
>>59228739
Blacklaw and Brain Boy sections are up, pending revisions on either of them that can be added as the writefags request. Anything else need to go up?

Any ideas for the name of the Mekboy Warboss on Gorro? There doesn't seem to be any canon name for him.

>>59230926
Ultramarines and the like are probably Ultramar polytheists. There are also notable Katholian and Religio Mortis minorities, among others. I'm trying to remember if we said what religion Cassius is.

Most of the White Scars probably retain the old beliefs of the nomads (which given how steppe nomads have worked throughout history probably boils down to "a little bit of everything"). The Medjay-like branch on Tallarn (I forget what their name was) has probably recruited so heavily from the locals they don't retain the old beliefs.

Iron Hands and their descendants (Relictors?) are Omnissiah worshippers.

The most popular "religion" on Cadia is dystheism.

>>59224382
I'm pretty sure the average citizen would at least respect the Orks as a threat in their own right- which is, admittedly, a bit distinct from being respected as players.

>>59231887
I guess I meant more that they're a deadly nuisance, like a strain of plant that emits spores that are instantly lethal if you're exposed to them, or a herd of ravenous animals- dangerous and able to really fuck you up, but not exactly something with galactic ambitions on the scale of the Imperium or the Forces of Chaos. The whole reason Brain Boyz are so dangerous is because they make the Orks more than a marauding horde- they're now a player in the Great Galactic game, who's win-condition is to put the galaxy in a state of eternal conflict.
It's the difference between being a chess piece and a chess player- people see them as Rooks or Knights on the board, when in reality they're one of the players. Though this is some multiplayer type of chess, so the analogy kind of falls apart.

>>59230926
Almost certainly what their homeworld believes

>>59231119
>>Blacklaw is up.
Thanks for this. Just to be clear, we don't edit the wiki ourselves, we put up revised stuff on here and then have you put it in?
>>anything else need to go up
You may want to trawl the archived thread and this thread for the stuff about how Imperial and Eldar armored formations cooperate, and also how the Eldar's more mobile grav-tanks can/are used to support formations like the Elysians and other drop formations.

On that subject, Harakoni Warhawks, anybody? Are they around in this setting?

>>59233748
Unless we think of a reason for them to be differentiated the Harakoni Warhawks are left as they are (bar the Vanilla xenophobia) and can be easy transplanted.

>>59234513
>>Unless we think of a reason for them to be differentiated the Harakoni Warhawks are left as they are (bar the Vanilla xenophobia) and can be easy transplanted.
Fair enough. Would it be a reasonable assumption to make that all the drop regiments receive better support in the nobledark given the Imperium here is more reasonable and has the cooperation of people with access to pretty decent fast response forces? (Eldar, Tau, etc)

Oh, and expect updates about Logann and company at some point down the line. Maybe tomorrow. Any ideas any of you guys might have for them would be much appreciated, even if I don't use them, badly mangle them, or some shit like that. I'm presently trying to decide how most of the ten years between Blacklaw's supposed death and his reemergence will be spent.

The commentary on Brainboyz in this thread has me thinking, did any of them ever pop up during the Dark Age of Technology or the Age of Strife? Or are they relatively new to the current era of the Imperium?

>>59235780
DaoT orks would have had the GaBHD and the Eldar Empire to contend with. In the Stillness section it mentions how the orks were waved away and left to drift as ash and dust among tne stars. It's unlikely they ever got to the level where it was possible.

>>59236224
That would make sense. Now, what about during the age of strife?

>>59235780
>>59236224
There's a mention in canon of Brainboy-like Orks popping up every once in a while to get smacked down by the Old Eldar Empire in the Beast Arises series.

I was thinking Brain Boyz were a rare enough occurence that humanity only encountered them once during the DaoT. But it was enough of a "holy shit" moment that it led to the formation of the Interstellar League and the mutual defense pact with other species. Kind of like how in history there are always raiding tribes on horseback, but only occasionally do you get individuals that flip the table like Atilla the Hun, Genghis Khan, etc.

>>59237243
>>There's a mention in canon of Brainboy-like Orks popping up every once in a while to get smacked down by the Old Eldar Empire in the Beast Arises series.
Interesting.

>>I was thinking Brain Boyz were a rare enough occurence that humanity only encountered them once during the DaoT. But it was enough of a "holy shit" moment that it led to the formation of the Interstellar League and the mutual defense pact with other species. Kind of like how in history there are always raiding tribes on horseback, but only occasionally do you get individuals that flip the table like Atilla the Hun, Genghis Khan, etc.
This isn't on the wiki, is it? You know, some of this stuff should probably go in the notes section somewhere. I realize that may upset some people, but we have 50+ archived threads at this point, it's probably wise to start moving all the loose information that which is reasonably certain to be canon for this variant setting over to the notes section for simple ease of reference.

>>59237220
>>59237220
Possibly because of all the petty kingdoms of Chaos rising and falling they didn't need to or couldn't get their shit together long enough because of their poor attention span

>>59203311
>>Are there any notable Eldar/Space Marine pairings in this setting?
None that have been written yet, so far as I'm aware. You'd likely see this among chapters that have had large amounts of friendly dealings with Eldar. Silver Skulls leap immediately to mind.

Hmm, lesee now, Volkite weapons are still in use, Armored Void Suits are probably in use, the wiki mentions nothing about the solar auxillia being disbanded, so they probably still exist right? Are they used to board space hulks maybe? They would probably do an okay job of it.

>>59240595
I imagine that they do, there is no reason that they wouldn't.

Are the Relictors still a thing?

>>59241659
They might be, but I haven't seen any mention of them on the wiki.

>>59242600
How far can a man go with the collection of strange artefacts before the police kick their door in?

>>59244132
Ask Trazyn. More seriously? I dunno, it depends on how corrupt the artifacts in question are and how corrupt the Relictors are in this setting, assuming they exist here.

>>59234513
Is there a craftworld that specialises in swooping hawks? Would it be too much to have them trade gear, to annoyance of the AdMech, and have warhawks have wings?

>>59233748
Really anybody can edit the wiki and put it on there. It's just that usually I'm the one who ends up doing it because few else seem interested in doing so (though a few other anons occasionally help out with the wiki, to whom I give major props to). My general rule of thumb for adding new stuff is if I see more than one anon responding positively to an idea, and no major problems from anyone else, I assume the general thread attitude towards it is positive and I put it up. The only real rules we have here are putting new ideas in the thread (or Pastebin) for consideration first and asking the rest of the thread if something's worth going on the wiki if it's not clear what the opinion is, and even those are unofficial.

>>59237393
I try, but I'm only one anon. I actually have a backlog list of "things to add to Notes page" and "things to write up to take off Notes page" that I try to work on when I have spare time. It's reaching the point where even I'm having trouble keeping up with it.

What flavor of Aspect Warrior should I romantically pursue with reckless abandon? It would boost morale amongst the troops, you see... encourage cooperation to a greater extent.

>>59248698
[Lusty Screeching Noises]

>>59247044
You are a true Hero of the Imperium anon

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>>59247044
My Wiki-fu is weak, but I gave it a shot. Added last thread's conversation about Farsight's motivations to the Notes page underneath his entry. Hopefully it's helpful, rather than adding more work for you.

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>>59248698
Contrary to popular belief, the best school of Aspect Warrior to pursue aren’t the Howling Banshees (50% of them are the wrong gender unless you’re bisexual, for starters). The greatest theorists in the Imperium (and by greatest theorists I mean the Illuminati, and by greatest theorists I mean bunch of idiots with nothing better to do) have formulated that the ideal Aspect Warrior waifu comes from…the Warp Spiders.

The Warp Spiders you say? What? Why? Well, every time a Warp Spider jumps they have a chance of dying. So they are very into the idea of living in the moment and likely very clingy to those they love. Plus some find the idea of being jumped by their lover literally anywhere to be a turnon.

Problem is the majority of them are on Kaelor, who are a bunch of Game of Thrones fuckers who don’t like humans (or the Craftworlders, or anyone besides the Harlequins really).

On the other hand, it’s canon that the Path of the Warrior induces personality changes in those who walk it (then again, most paths do). It’s not a complete personality overhaul, but when eldar get on the Path of the Warrior they tend to become angrier and more aggressive. In canon one eldar divorced her significant other (do eldar get married? They obviously have a concept of pair-bonding from canon and what we expanded on their biology here supports that, but do they treat it with the pomp and circumstance that we do?) because their personality became a lot more aggressive and abrasive after becoming an Aspect Warrior and their spouse couldn’t put up with the personality changes.

>>59247044
You're doing fine work friend, it's a lot of tedium to have to put up with, don't think you aren't appreciated for it.

Okay, I'm going to post a general outline of the events that will happen during the 10 years between Blacklaw's supposed death and his return with his band to wreck more havoc.

Outline for the 10 year intermission:

A couple years worth of vacation.
Back to work doing assorted tasks, from aiding the other other ordos(the elysian warp hole may be trivial compared to the eye of terror, but that doesn't mean Elysia can afford to ignore it), possibly Elysia's Man and Eldar Woman of the hour are there when the Imperial Couple makes a state visit and have a short meeting with them.
Logann's fast rise to the rank of Inquisitor Lord has attracted a certain amount of negative backlash, and an Ordo Sicarius Inquisitor Lord by the name of Vanessia Arlens has been assigned to keep an eye on Logann, Vanessia has a sizable force of her own and she may wind up getting roped into the pursuit of Blacklaw and his band once they reemerge.
Logann may also wind up having to provide support to the Ordo Malleus and Hereticus due to the problems caused by the warp rift, more manpower and the aid of a skilled precognitive can be helpful after all.

>>59252524
>>Back to work doing assorted tasks, from aiding the other other ordos(the elysian warp hole may be trivial compared to the eye of terror, but that doesn't mean Elysia can afford to ignore it), to hunting various Xenos threats inside and outside the Elysian system, possibly Elysia's Man and Eldar Woman of the hour are there when the Imperial Couple makes a state visit and have a short meeting with them.

A quick edit to more precisely outline my intentions here.

Has the collective synod of the imperium been fleshed out yet?

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>>59254770
Nothing much beyond the man who speaks for them.

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>>59247044
I can't express how grateful I am. I used to do some stuff to the wiki in a hesitant, trial and error sort of way constantly in mortal dread that I'd break something. So thank you.

>>59255872
What about the Adepta Sororitas and the Ordo Securitas? I vaguely remember there being some trouble determining what sort of role they would play in the nobledark.

>>59256570
Internal police for dealing with the super heavy shit.

Space Marine goes crazy? Send in the Bolter Bitches. They are feared.

>>59251968
B-but what about Bonesingers and their Healers? I bet Healers are extra cuddly and nice...

>>59255872
Isha be THICC.
Big E is one lucky bastard.

>>59256906
Okay, so the Adepta Sororitas are internal police for dealing with...stuff. I would assume then that they are part of the Ordo Securitas in much the same way that the Grey Knights are part of the Ordo Malleus. Is that correct? Furthermore, what about the religious element? The Imperium in this setting is an interstellar polity with with various faiths being followed by it's citizens, how do the Sororitas figure into this given how they are portrayed in canon?

>>59257104
The battle sisters are the heavy arm of the Ordo Securitas.

>>59257104
>>59257865
The Sisterhoods generally recruit from the same religious and cultural groups for the sake of integrity in the sisterhoods coupled with a prior existing and strong faith in something greater than yourself being a mild Chaos deterrent in that Chaos then has to supplant something rather than just offer something.

So individual sisters and the groups that they belong to are often religious but the institution to which they belong is indifferent to any religion in particular.

There are Katholian sisters, Promethean Sisters and a hundred other flavours all of which serve the Imperium itself above all. Also helped by the fact that most if not all of the major faith groups in the Imperium see the Imperium as their holy empire in which other faiths are allowed to preach as a sign of generosity, and as it is their holy empire each one will defend it and it's citizens as a holy duty regardless of the personal faiths of those citizens.

Does the Ordo Hereticus exist in the nobledark or are they replaced by the Ordo Securitas that this anon mentioned>>59258574
?

Ah fuck it, posting more of Logann's backstory.

>>First and foremost though, it was time for Logann and Elrana to take a vacation for a couple of years, and for the soldiers and naval personnel under their collective command to get some RnR as well. It was during this period of down time that Logann and Elrana first wrote of their experiences hunting Blacklaw and crew, and the elysian propaganda films made based off this account have been making the pair a substantial sum of money from Royalties ever since. Once this period of rest was concluded, the pair went back to work, hunting various Xenos threats in and around the Elysia system/sector and also being called upon by the Ordo Malleus and Hereticus to provide support when needed to deal with threats caused by the Elysian Warp Hole(Logann had long since stopped viewing as being all that impressive of a threat compared to other warp anomalies since his recruitment by the Inquisition, Elrana had always scoffed at the idea that it was a "Great Rift" based on both first and secondhand knowledge taught to her by her peers and gained during her career.).

>>59259492
At first, all was well for Logann, Elrana and their assorted subordinates. That is, until the an Ordo Sicarius Inquisitor Lord(Lady? Do they use gendered titles?)by the name of Vanessia Arlens and her own impressively large "entourage" showed up. Vanessia explained diplomatically that she was there to "assist" Logann and company in their various endeavors, but Logann was familiar enough with the political situation at the local Inquisition branch/field office to know that his rapid rise through the ranks, reliance upon mercenaries(Technically including Elrana and her Corsair fleet) and swift increase in influence in the Elysian System/Sector had caused eyebrows to rise and enemies to be made. Still, the pair tried to make the best of the situation, enlisting Vanessia's forces in their work against various Xenos Horrificus and the more hostile Xenos Indepens threats that Logann and Elrana encountered in their own work.

>>59259511
That's it for now, any thoughts?

>>59259345
It could still exist but in a much reduced capacity as the Imperium does still have laws regarding religion;
1)No worshiping Chaos
2)No worshiping the Emperor
3)No armed religious institutions

If there is an Ordo Hereticus they will be responsible for the enforcement of these rules. Beyond that the Imperium is indifferent to the actual scripture and doctrine of any particular faith so long as you don't use it as a means to excuse transgressing Imperial Law. Imperial Law is above local law. Being part of a religion that demands pacifism does not exclude you from conscription in times of need. No group gets exemption from The Tithe, which was a source of minor concern with Jubblowski as the eldar didn't want her to be in danger.

The Death Cults don't murder people and of the very few sects that still perform human sacrifices they either take death row inmates, people with considerable bounties on their head or combine their military service with it.

>>59259620
Would it be fair to say that if they do still exist that they have a narrower focus then?

>>59256907
Honestly, you'd be better off going for one of them then the people who go off to war often.

>>59259792
>>59259620
I would say that the Ordo Hereticus' job has two main focuses; enforcing the Imperial laws on Religion, and uncovering Chaos cults. Technically hunting chaos cults is a responsibility shared among most branches of the Imperium, but the Ordos Hereticus is the most focused and the one that is first among equals when it comes to dealing with them. When the Arbites discover potential cult activity that, for whatever reason, is beyond their scope or that they cannot confirm themselves, they call in the Ordos Hereticus.
It's something like Police Riot squads, where their application tends to be very specific and doesn't come up often, but it's better to have them when you need them, because then you REALLY need them.

>>59260038
This sounds reasonable enough. Anyway, expect more writing from me at some point down the line, probably tomorrow or the next day.

>>59260038
Malleus would be more likely to catch Chaos cults that are masquerading as investment groups, free hospices, mercenary companies and strip clubs and the like. Hereticus would be more likely to find the ones hiding as fringe sects of established religions and ecclesiastical organisations. This means that the members of the Hereticus have to be fluent in the beliefs and practices of the main religious groups of the area that they typically operate in, not an easy task when a world can have a dozen religion groups or more. To this end they would have to employ or consult theologians and priests from those faiths. To this end the Hereticus would have considerable contacts within the Collective Synod and vice versa.

>>59258574
Also not everyone called a Sister of Battle is a part of the Ordo Securitas. Miriam Cain is a Battle Sister associated with the Word Bearers and the Fenrisians somehow managed to either break the copyright on the Augmentations or

>>59263291
or someone covertly provided them with the know how and materials for making the Valkyries.

not sure what happened there.

What are space marines like in this alternate setting as compared to canon? Generally speaking, they tend towards being monastic warrior monks in vanilla 40k, and from what I've gathered, they are a bit different in the nobledark.

>>59265213

It varies somewhat but they are mostly seen as humans with shit done to them rather than demi-god angels of war and death. Most are allowed, even expected, to marry and have families of their own to keep them emotionally grounded and sane.

The big examples are Night Lords because they are sanctioned monsters and Grey Knights because they are Grey Knights.

For the most part the chapters are not as autonomous as they are in Vanilla and instead operate as a small super elite branch of the Imperial Army. At a certain, as yet undefined level, the Chapters are under the command of the brass. A Warmaster like Macharius for example was Primarch in all but name and commanded Space Marines. Mortarion was part of that Crusade although the exact relationship between them was probably complicated.

Shas'O "DoonTau" Kais commanded Space Marines during his career in the Inquisition

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>>59265213
Grey Knights in particular tend towards monastic knights/samurai. Train to be ascetics so Chaos can't get their hooks in, not necessarily emotionless but in perfect control of their emotions. I'd say that's part of the reason for their grey armor, they leave it unpainted (or paint it just enough to cover up any damage) as part of their ascetic nature, eskewing bright colors and patterns.

As mentioned here and on the notes, people know about the Grey Knights. They are a symbol of hope and on a lot of recruitment posters, even though the average pleb knows nothing about them beyond "Space Marines that fight daemons", and you don't want to be near them or know why they're here because when they do show up it means shit is about to hit the rotating aero-recycler.

>>59266113
Should be pointed out that part of the reason Shas'O Mon'tau Kais commanded Space Marines is because Boreale screwed up the whole operation. At least I think.

>>59263291
>>59263883
That one I think we got resolved. Daughters of Russ are an offshoot of the Ordo Hospitaliers who re-adopted aggressive battlefield tactics due to their nature as first responders (as in, to treat the wounded you have to shoot the bastard standing on top of them first). Needless to say, in the 41st millenium on some worlds the Hippocratic Oath seems to have gone out the window.

Ordo Hospitaliers founded by a retired SoB who wanted to do more for the Imperium than just kill. Ended up founding an organization that works like the Red Cross. Works closely with the Securitas because good health promotes internal stability (a dollar of prevention is worth an ounce of cure) and it gives the Sisters somewhere to send members for whom the spirit is willing but the flesh can no longer follow.

>>59256907
>>59259942
Bonesingers and healers aren't Aspect Warriors. They're on civilian paths. Though bonesingers have also been noted to show pronounced personality changes like Aspect Warriors. Bonesingers are said to be constantly in a fey mood of creativity like an artist or a Spark in the process of sparking out (probably enough to give the similarly inclined Mag'ladroth a cyberboner if it had the equipment). It must be a nightmare trying to get them to consistently manufacture things because the Craftworld needs mass-produced designs but the bonesingers want to make "art".

>>59267392
Bonesingers sound like they'd be into some real kinky shit, kinda like artists in real life. I'd prefer a Healer GF, though, they sound nice.

>>59231119 (same)
>>59241659
Shit I meant the Reclaimers. The ones Cain worked with in canon.

>>59271352
My heart...

>>59271352
Heh, typical Alaitoc chick I tells ya.

>>59271626
They fuck like demons, though. They're screamers

Just found out about forgeworld discontinuing the forgeworld elysian models. I don't even play the miniature game and this still upsets me on some level, how odd. Anyway, on the topic of my whole writefagging thing, does anyone know which space marine chapter is most inclined towards ork fighting in the nobledark?

I'm thinking of going with a Crimson Fists space marine as the Deathwatch captain that Logann and Elrana are friends with, but I could change it to some other chapter if it would be more thematically appropriate for smacking greenskins around.

>>59272289
Elysium is literally right next door to Armageddon (30 AUs). Armageddon has five or so native Space Marine chapters which recruit out of each of the major hives (maybe four with one recruiting out of two). They would be excellent candidates.

I'm trying to remember if we had names for them. We had been trying to avoid donut steel chapters unless absolutely necessary (the Tallarn marines don't have a counterpart, for one). I know one of the Armageddon chapters was either a Fist or IW descendant, due to the nature of Armageddon. I know the people of Armageddon (like many Imperial Hive Worlds) tend to talk about their local chapters like people talk about football teams. Did we have a Fist/IW pair continuing the glorious rivalry of Dorn and Perty there?

Does Amerigo Secundus get any love in this setting? It's painful to see how little lore they have even though they've been exalted...

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>>59256919
As a fertility goddess some degrees of T_H_I_C_Cness is obligatory

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>>59274656
You ever wonder if some of the Eldar Women get jealous of her T H I C Cness?

>>59273567
I think we used some name only chapters but I can't remember which.

But one was IF and another was IW and they got along well together.

>>59273567
>>59275401
So either Imperial Fists or Iron Warriors could work? What sort of far future version of modern names do those guys have? I know the Ultras have a space roman thing going on and the Wolves are space vikings, but I'm not as sure about the other chapters.

>>59274656
Truth
>>59274712
Maybe, but then again part of the whole elf/eldar "thing" is to be rather kinda slim in the first place, so maybe not that much.

>>59275595
They would derive their names for the most part from the hives that they are from. At least one of the hives has an Italian/Mediterranean flavour to it but at least one other is vaguely Germanic.

>>59275947
So for for both of them you could have either Italian/Greek names or German names? Thanks for the information, I'll probably be using it.

>>59276047
Yes. Although if they recruit exclusively from their own hives the names might be less mixed.

>>59273567
If it were that close it would be in the same star system.

>>59256207
How emotionally broken is the average Krieger in this AU? Could they, with enough help, be fixed?

>>59251968
I imagine on the subject of marriage it would vary from craftworld to craftworld. It's also possible for elder to get the equivalent of path-lost in their companionship where even if one of them died they would not be able to have another long term partner.

It would also probably result in an rage/grief cycle.

>>59279740
Feanor

>>59278864
No. Maybe one individual out of a million, but the average Krieger is human in genetics only at this point. Not to mention that they're one of the only units that pretty much cannot be used along with any of the Imperium's allies; they'll tolerate other human units, but aliens who try to approach tend to get fired upon.
And unlike in canon, where this is a punishment for not answering the Emperor's call, this is something they did to themselves.

Have we ever decided on Angron's last battle? Did he fight on Earth at the Last Roll of Thunder, or at least in Old Earth's 'Last' days?

*whispers* Did seeing his nation so utterly broken and destroyed made him wreck vengence on the Orks?

>>59281081
He was on Earth during the last battle. Whether he was up and about or in a hospital bed (or alternating between the two) is still up in the air.

He wasn't at the Last Roll of Thunder, for the simple reason that if he was he would have been dead by way of Ork. Angron died due to implant failure in a hospital bed shortly after the Battle of Terra. His condition before then was...not good.

>>59280247
Who's they? The guy who fired all the nukes at the rebelling hive cities? Most of Krieg's population died in a massive conflagration.

>>59281434

Well, I personally would propose something akin to a... Last Liberation. When Angron alternating between relieving his days under Nuceria and assaulting a Chaos/Dark Eldar encampment which was then picking up a bunch of slaves - last survivors from a fallen City-Hive or a village which was in the past in the Nord Afrik. There he'd meet a boy, a son of a baker, holding his ground with sheer unwillingness to die agaisnt his would-be-slavers before the burnt husk of his house. The slaver, then more amused then annoyed by it and was intending to toy with the boy for a bit until they get bored. Then Angron came.

And maybe, this fight where he went out it his complete and utter was what had finally claimed him, but he went out (or very much nearly so) with a smile on his face, knowing that he'd finally done some good. Makes for a books end, for him. When he averted, if just a bit, a terrible future for another 'him.' A kindred spirit, even if like looking through jaded, fogged and musky glass lenses of age and so much bloodshed, but he could see clear as day.

>>59281815
If we go with this then he should not die but only nearly die. We already have writefaggatory about his last moments and they are peaceful.

>>59281921

I did say 'very much nearly so'. Implying the damage was bad enough he got ko'd and put into a coma, but not enough that he did not have a few days of peace left.

>>59281081
Angron died peacefully in a hospital bed, knowing he had many descendants out among the stars.
I don't think he'd much care about nations, since he hated the homeland responsible for his tortured youth. I think he valued people on an individual level more than collective ideas like nations. And to be honest, he's seen so much fucked-up shit that it would just be another sin he'd hold himself accountable for.

>>59281694
Jurgen fired the initial salvos, yes, but the surviving Loyalist and Rebel Kriegers continued to use Nukes against each other. For five hundred years, both sides were waging total war against each other on the ashes of their dead world, offering no quarter and holding nothing back.

>>59282262
On the subject of Jurgen, does Cain's old assistant know that he's a blank?

>>59283181
Well thankfully this was a different Jurgen, so Cain's infamous luck wasn't responsible for the hellhole of grimdark that is Krieg, but considering how open the Imperium is with at least generalized information in this setting compared to canon, Jurgen is probably at least aware that he's not the only person around whom psykers stop working. He probably keeps quiet about it and stays on with Inquisitor Vail rather than joining the Blank colony because he likes Cain and would rather keep helping him (or at least his girlfriend).
Unfortunately for Cain, his latest position as Ambassador to Biel-Tan means he can't take Jurgen with him, since a race of Psykers don't take Blanks very well.

>>59280127
Beil-tan are already described as Space Noldor so why the fuck not. Given the hostile nature of the galaxy and the likelihood of tragic shit happening to people and the inherent emotional instability of the eldar it's likely that the Aspect Temples have a disproportionate number of widows and widowers. The Craftworlds are all about imposing some measure of serenity on their denizens for fear of another Fall and though a grieving eldar is quieter and shorter lived than a raging eldar it's not as useful.

A raging eldar wants to get even, wants to hurt as they have been hurt, carry on hurting as they are hurting and that rolling roiling hate can be honed and directed. They would be the ones who get pathlost as they have nothing else to loose.

>>59275947
That would only be two of the hives. Hives have populations of other worlds. The other hives can be almost any flavour you want.

>>59281081
>Did seeing his nation so utterly broken and destroyed made him wreck vengence on the Orks?

Angron would point and laugh if that was the case. Or rather, he would if it was pre-Unification Nord Afrik, post-Unification he would be more concerned about what happened to the individual people (who were mostly not the same people who made Nord Afrik a bunch of feuding, grungy city-states), and even if it was pre-Imperium he would feel bad about the significant underclass and slave population getting killed along with the asshole high riders. During the Crusade he was asked by historians about writing down his life in the Nord Afrik Conclaves for posterity. He refused, going so far as to say being subjugated by the Imperium was the best thing that could have happened to the country. If it became so far forgotten it was as if it never existed so much the better.

I'm just going to default to Sangyfag regarding details about Angron's later life and what he was doing during the Battle of Terra (besides what has been sketched out about his death in a hospital bed already) since he is the one who is sketching most of that out.

>>59282180
Point of clarification: IIRC those were his adopted children (who considered him their father regardless of their origin). Angron didn't seem to have any natural born children. From what Sangyfag wrote so far I would almost go so far as to wager he was terrified of sexual intimacy due to everything that happened with Nuceria in his childhood, unless something really weird happened with Lotara Sarin.

>>59283181
I would say probably. Jurgen would notice psykers don't work around him, eldar won't be in the same room as him (though eldar are rare in the Imperium, it's likely he would have run into them a few times due to being in the military), and Inquisitor's don't just pick random people to be in their retinue without a reason.

>>59285526
I like to think Lotara Sarrin and Khan Oathsworn had a clandestine and highly unprofessional relationship.

Bump

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>>59286785
<spoiler>This is just my stupid headcanon, but I always had the idea that Kharn was gay. You'd think that some notable figure in the Imperium would be given the massively variable cultural norms and sheer number of notable figures it has produced. Thematically it makes the most sense for him out of anyone, given the Spartan/Roman Gladiator/Carthaginian themes of the War Hounds and the fact that nobledark!Kharn has been compared to Leonidas.

Of course, I definitely see him as a "the men first" kind of commander. His tastes might have swung that way, but the War Hounds were a band of brothers and he considered their wellbeing first and foremost for that reason alone.

And, of course, there's the whole thing with Argent Tal, the Colchian who I keep seeing in this universe as someone who signed on expected to join up with the Word Bearers but ended up with the War Hounds. Wanted to transfer but Kharn and Angron kept him around because he was good at bringing order to the unruly legion. Though in that case it may have been a one-sided bromance with a case of incompatible orientation.

It also bucks the usual trends we have with many characters being in relationships, though we also have many characters for whom career was more important than settling down or just weren't interested, including Dorn, Magnus, Perturabo, Mortarion, Kurze, Macharius, etc.

But then again, it's just my stupid headcanon, regard it or disregard it as you will.</spoiler>

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>>59275595
The eldar also see Isha as their distant mother (even if that's more metaphorically true than literally). Elf-Eve. So if they do feel jealous it's because they feel their grandmother (who is also a fertility goddess) has a better booty than they do.

>Legion themes
Iron Warriors are Greek-themed, both in canon and here. IFs have been variable in canon, including the Spanish/Latin American-themed Crimson Fists and the Germanic-inspired Black Templars (who are Death Guard here). One chapter (Celestial Lions) are Space Masai.

White Scars are steppe nomads (Mongols, Turks, and the like), and in canon they tend to draw the short straw and end up getting almost every non-European themed chapter (i.e., Mantis Warriors). Raven Guard have been said to have some Native American influences in canon (Dark Angels used to and then they got retconned) whereas Carcharodons have been often depicted with Polynesian influences (Maori). Some people like envisioning the Rainbow Warriors as Aztec Marines, though there's no official fluff for it.

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Is it possible for an eldar to get pathlost as a priestess of Isha?

>>59283669
Assuming Cain's career followed mostly the same path at what point does it diverge into being an ambassador?

>>59271352
Is there an Exodite one of these?

>>59291904
I would say yes in effect due to the obsessive nature of the eldar. It possibly isn't actually recognized as a path as such as it was a new priesthood and social order formed after the path system was established although most eldar wouldn't be very aware of the distinction given how ingrained the notion of paths is to them as a culture. Also unlike being pathlost as an Aspect Warrior the pathlost of Isha's disciples are far more capable of interacting with the normal citizenry and due to the nature of the path can almost pass as normal.

>>59290366
>>The eldar also see Isha as their distant mother (even if that's more metaphorically true than literally). Elf-Eve. So if they do feel jealous it's because they feel their grandmother (who is also a fertility goddess) has a better booty than they do.
That makes sense to me, and nice job with the pic related, imagining this happening in nobledark 40k is making laugh more then it should.
>>Iron Warriors are Greek-themed, both in canon and here. IFs have been variable in canon, including the Spanish/Latin American-themed Crimson Fists and the Germanic-inspired Black Templars (who are Death Guard here). One chapter (Celestial Lions) are Space Masai.

>>White Scars are steppe nomads (Mongols, Turks, and the like), and in canon they tend to draw the short straw and end up getting almost every non-European themed chapter (i.e., Mantis Warriors). Raven Guard have been said to have some Native American influences in canon (Dark Angels used to and then they got retconned) whereas Carcharodons have been often depicted with Polynesian influences (Maori). Some people like envisioning the Rainbow Warriors as Aztec Marines, though there's no official fluff for it.
Thanks for this, this will be useful for my own writing provided I remember it. I'll have an update later today or tonight, hopefully.

>>59292543
Some time after Perlia and probably some time after he assisted the Inquisition getting the Shadowlight back, given that it now resides in a Ganymede Vault.

>>59281815
>>59282180
>>59285526
>>59286785
>>59290132
I don't know how much my opinion is worth given that I've taken so long with Angron since writing the first bit, but I'll try to answer some of the questions here from the notes and outlines I have:

As others have said, Angron was not at the Eternity Gate for the Last Roll of Thunder, the only Primarchs that were there were Sangy, then later Leman Russ and Lorgar. I've stuck to the established fluff regarding Angron's end in a hospital bed. I haven't written the details yet, but broadly speaking he would be fighting for the first few days of the Battle of Terra before collapsing in battle when his body gave out, spending the rest of the battle roaring orders from a stretcher in a field hospital. He dies a few weeks after the conclusion of the battle after scribbling down some reflections about his life. I think it would be a bit too trite and on the nose to have him find another impossibly angry baker's son and save him from evil slavers.

This anon >>59285526 is pretty much spot on with what I was going for, even down to Angron's fear of sexual intimacy. I debated having Nuceria use Angron/pimp him out like the ancient Romans did with gladiators for noblewomen, but ultimately decided it was too creepy and didn't add much to his already grimdark backstory.

I actually have Lotara Sarrin as another one of Angron's children, but I'm not sure whether it seems cheesy that Angron has so many talented kids or if I should have a mild case of nepotism be one of Angron's character flaws (stemming from his understandable trust issues).

Kharn's personality is mostly beyond the scope of what I'll be writing so go nuts if you want to delve into his character.

>>59297637

On baker's son: well, I understand what you're saying, but what I'm more going forward with is Angron, well, saving that baker's child from being eternally angry all the damn time, and... well... who is to say that was actually what happened? What if it's just a small portion of his addled, stricken, hazed mind, filling in the gaps of reality with the deepest parts of his wishes and desires that even he had forgotten about...

Wait.

What if: Angron dealt with a Dark Eldar raiding Party, strucken by a lucky (no doubt poisoned) blow, drags his body off a few miles in an unknown direction before falling unconscious before a village, no, just a Safe Vault called Solitude in the middle of the Zaharzan Desert... which he'd just unbesknowingly saved? The people brought him in, not even knowing he was a Primarch but they tried their best to save him and contact for someone to pick him up over the simple goodness of one's heart, but as communication's still a mess, too many orks between the nearest base unsieged, etc, etc. So instead Angron wakes up a few days (how long was the battle of Terra? Weeks, months?) later bedridden and cared for by one of the few spare hand they could, a child with eyes reflecting those of his own in a day so, so, so far back in the past. The vault was, luckily, relatively unnoticed by the forces besieging Terra, and as few weeks passed, maybe more, Angron even through his bed-ridden, feverish incapacitation gets to witness a bit of what could have been of his life, of the child innocently playing with his brothers and sisters and friends, of the father talking to his son and teaching him how to cook (with some head-nuzzling), of the mother softly soothing the youngest to sleep, etcetera, until the Imperial forces finally located him and brought him back to a hospital for proper treatment. And even as they left that blasted sands and ashen winds behind, somehow Angron had never felt more at peace.

>>59297637
I imagine that he used his authority to arrange for good jobs for his children. It probably is nepotism but none of the primarchs were perfect and he wasn't promoting them to generals of planetary governance or anything big so the issue was never formally raised.

>>59298796

And PS: this could just be an event that happened between his last days of active combat and the resuming of his role as, as you put it, 'shouting orders from a stretchers.' It could even be an even that reinforced his will to see through this calamity, to brave the orks and scums wearing the hides of men and eldar and so many other forms for one last time. If you find it to your liking, of course.

Does the Imperial Infantrymen's uplifting primer exist in this universe?

>>59300223
Probably in some form, but instead of being absurd propagandistic misinformation about the galaxy it’s an idealized, every-private-a-statesman, aphorisms and observations (supposedly) from the primarchs sort of affair.

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>>59300223
>>59300223
Presumably so. It would have such useful tidbits in it as;

>be patient with they eldar citizens and soldiers, they are weird but they are on our side

>Do not charge into hopeless odds for honour and glory, life is the blood of the Imperium and it is to be spent but never wasted

>The Commissar is a bit of a bastard at times because it's his job but he does have your best interest at heart

>Psykers carry a great responsibility so don't poke fun at their weirdness

And other such things alongside reminders about the importance of regular weapons maintenance rituals, look after your feet, hygiene and the importance of it and such things.

The book would be universal (or near it) among the forces of the Imperium and so is probably a product of the Commissariant as they are the only constant across the Imperium.

>>59290366
White Scars are definitely Mongolian in this AU as they were founded by a Mongolian and then he migrated Mongolia to an empty planet with a super-continent that was very Mongolia looking.

Raven Guard intentionally don't cultivate a strong culture of their own as they specialize in infiltration and sabotage.

Dark Angels were founded as Franjic Knights IN SPAAAAACE!

Rainbow Warriors are fabulous. Someone once suggested that they add a new colour for every major campaign victorious. The really dandy ones have body counts usually associated with Ebola outbreaks on regressed worlds.

>>59300764
Some additional suggestions:
>the most common ways to make an aquila with your hands

>Blanks exist, and that aura of discomfort you get around them does not mean you are cursed to die

>reminders about weapon handling safety

>reminders to not be disruptive with the local populace, or else the Commissar is going to intervene

Sorry for the lack of real content in this one, but I'm working on some stuff that I hope to post sooner or later.

Just got back from a meal out with some acquaintances.

A brief update with a name for the Deathwatch Captain then some more stuff later on, sorry I don't have anything more substantial yet, life kinda intervened a bit.

>>(Leonidas Valis) A Deathwatch killteam Captain and a good friend of Logann and Elrana who happily responded to their request for aid in dealing with Blacklaw and his band. A veteran of numerous assaults, raids, etc against Xenos Horrificus class aliens along with some against the more hostile Xenos Independens.

Thus began a 100 year long hunt for Blacklaw and his band. During this hunt Logann requisitioned some forces from the Elysian guard regiments(his old regiment were enthusiastic volunteers), some naval ships, a Deathwatch killteam,(This team was commanded by Leonidas Valis, who would become a good friend of Logann and Elrana over the course of the pursuit of Blacklaw's freebooters) and hired some "private contractors" as well to beef up the rather modest force he inherited from his mentor, plus the more substantial force that Elrana brought to the table. For the first few decades of this hunt, Logann and Elrana thought that Blacklaw was just an exceptionally elusive freebooter, however the long period of dealing with diversionary raids, ambushes, booby traps, Blacklaw's associations with various renegade imperial elements, and plain old false positives when other freebooter bands would get caught and killed only for Blacklaw and company to start shit elsewhere at the same time or shortly thereafter helped to drive home the true difficulty of the task before them.

>>59307876
A bit more with the new stuff at the end added on.

Eventually, Vanessia's suspicions of Logann and his group subsided somewhat and what followed for the next eight years was fairly routine work of chasing orks and other assorted troublemakers through the Elysian system/sector mixed with providing support to other Inquisition efforts in said area, Logann, Elrana and pretty much all of Elysia largely viewed Blacklaw and his band as being a particularly bad memory by this point. Which is just about the time when he made his dramatic reappearance. A series of raids seemingly indistinguishable from standard ork and renegade pirate activity were used to disguise multiple well-planned surprise attacks on several important civilian and military facilities in the Elysia system/sector practically shattered the relative peace and quiet that had preceded said attacks and put the entire system/sector on military alert once again. Blacklaw and his band of pirates had made their return with a bang.

>>59308068
I'm probably going to change Leonidas's name, in case anyone asks.

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>>59302663
Oh yeah, forgot that in this timeline Rainbow Warriors are the Space Marine chapter based on Savlar. Which if you know anything about Savlar in this timeline is...different.

>>59300764
>>59306823
It probably also comes across as a bit cringey in-universe. The over-the-top Big Brother propaganda from vanilla has largely been replaced with art deco-esque stuff you'd expect to see during the World Wars or the Cold War (e.g., "Duck and Cover"), which while a lot more positive and sincere (it's not going to tell a guardsmen he can kill Orks with his bare hands) is still a bit rosy way of looking at the universe and comes off as cheesy to the hardened veterans who aren't quite so naive.

>>59297637
>>59298801
I can definitely see this too (both the nepotism as a flaw and Lotarra being another of Angron's adopted children).

Not only that but his children would feel pressured into going into the military, no matter how much Angron didn't want them to. To them their dad was this hard-as-nails guy who went up against Franjish knights and won, and they feel pressured to live up to his example. Never mind that the last thing Angron wants is for them to have a life as opposite him as humanly possible, his kids also seem to have a stubborn streak.

>>59308978

So does Lotarra goes 'Onii-chaaaaan~~~' at Kharn canon or not?

>>59308978
>>The over-the-top Big Brother propaganda from vanilla has largely been replaced with art deco-esque stuff you'd expect to see during the World Wars or the Cold War (e.g., "Duck and Cover"), which while a lot more positive and sincere (it's not going to tell a guardsmen he can kill Orks with his bare hands) is still a bit rosy way of looking at the universe and comes off as cheesy to the hardened veterans who aren't quite so naive.

So no Genestealers with stubby claws that can't slash through flak vests? Makes sense, considering the setting.

>>59309154
It is if you want it to be. Don’t let your dreams be dreams anon.

>>59272258
Banshees become a genuine health hazard.

>>59309301
We can say it's art deco all day but I can't be the only one imagining the illustrations to this book being done with Fallout Guy.

>>59297637
Lotara Sarrin would have been given a job quite close to Earth in the highly secure trade routes between the core territories of the Imperium. She always wanted to go to space so Angron arranged matters so that she could get a job in the Merchant Navy on a sturdy ship, with decent pay and a good crew. She wasn't given a job beyond her capabilities so although it was favouritism it wasn't too detrimental and nobody was going to argue with The Red Angel. Lotara Sarrin, like most of Angron's children, considers this to be second place to a military career. She Learns the comings and going of ship life, studies hard of all things to do with military ships and the duties of it and becomes extremely proficient at her job in the process. When she transfers to the Navy branch of the Imperial Army Angron flips his fucking lid but eventually simmers down. Lotara Sarrin eventually, by merit and despite Angron's grumpiness, becomes captain of the Conqueror of the Warhounds.

>>59314314

Does she survive the WoTBM?

>>59314644
If she was one of Angron's adopted children then she would have to have been around since the days of The Unification. Angron adopted kids from the slave pens to keep them safe from the horrors of the Nord-Afrik and once the Imperium rolled over it and turned the place into Southern Europia it's likely he stopped adopting.

The Great Crusade went on for ~500 years rather then the ~250 of vanilla, also Rejuvenents were far more hit and miss back in the olden days. It is distinctly possible that she grew up, lived a long and full life in service to the Imperium and died peacefully of old age before The War of The Beast even started.

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>>59313479
You aren't the only one.

Is there a list of what order The Warlord conquered/absorbed the nations of Old Earth?

>>59308978
>in this timeline Rainbow Warriors are the Space Marine chapter based on Savlar.

Would the chaplains of the RWs be of the Small Gods of Savlar or the Faith of the Broken God? What would a religion dedicated to the gods of Savlar even look like?

>>59317310
Working on it. This is what I remember (someone please correct me if I’m wrong).

Terrawatt

Uralia

Skand

Nord Afrik (first country taken over by force, using boats from Skand)

Franj-Europa (in negotiations with Imperium at the same time as Nord Afrik was taken over, decided to join willingly about the same time seeing

Gredbriton

Afrique League

Orioc (efficiency has been increased, Hy Braseal gets a bad taste in their mouth)

Miscellany of eastern Europe including Macedonia, having heard news about huge Urshii retaliation coming

Achaemenidia (fuck Ursh)

Persepotropolis (fuck Ursh)

Ind (fuck Ursh)

Yndonesic Bloc (Turn around, back up, and go the other way. Going any further east would mean turning your back to either Ursh or the PPE, which was bad)

Khanate (not an actual nation at the time of Unification. Turned on Ursh about this time but the lands were not truly free until about the same time as the Sino-Japanese Commonwealth)

Sino-Japanese Commonwealth

Pan-Pacific Empire

Ursh (Urshii insurgents fled to Sibar and plagued Imperium for…20 years was it until Kurze got involved)

Ducht Jemanic (possible later, held out as long as possible until the Imperium came knocking to clean up the leftovers)

Sibar (where you get mugged by bears, Urshii insurgents, and little girls with knives)

Calbi (Revolted against Merica, Imperium backed Calbi rebels but Calbi was not fully independent until after Merica joined).

Merica

Lichstenstein Vault (finally convinced it was safe to come out a decade or so before the War of the Beast hit, irony)

Hy Braseal (joined after getting Orked by War of the Beast)

>>59319013
Order of the primarchs (first met, all were promoted at same time)

1/2. Magnus and Russ. Technically Russ was a young man at the time and did not become a commander until later, due to being a Canis Helix soldier

3. Guilliman

4. Angron

5. Mortarion

6. Ferrus Manus (met, could have started fighting later)

7. Perturabo

8. Lorgar

9. Jaghatai Khan

10. Corvus Corax

11. Horus

12. Rogal Dorn (note: A&O must have appeared by this time, if not earlier)

13. Fulgrim

14/15/16. Lion El’Jonson/Sanguinius/Vulkan. Vulkan might have been known earlier as an ambassador from the Afrique League. Lion El’Jonson was known to the Warlord but was seen as Luther’s kid brother until he got promoted.

17. Curze. About the same time as the previous three, though Curze was slightly older (had a military record under the Warlord already).

>>59318616
Drugs. It would involve lots of hallucinogenic drugs. Lots of drug trips and altered states of consciousness, etc. For some reason the most common advice dispensed by the gods is "lay off the drugs".

>>59319036
Once A&O had publicly appeared people started to realise that they had seen them in quite a lot of backgrounds. It was like they had suddenly always been there.

>>59315395
In Vanilla she was abnormally young for such a job. In this she could have been Angron's youngest child, the last he adopted before the Imperium brought civility to Nord Afrik

>>59321695
I thought Macer Varren was his youngest. Second youngest for Lotara then?

>>59322651
Who was Varren?

>>59319013
The Calbi revolt was actually contemporary with the main war against Ursh, and a major point was that the early Imperium could only provide minimal support to Dorn for much of his war.

>>59320390
Alpharius Omegon (no relation) was a prominent secretariat of assets and outlays for Terrawatt-uralia prior to Malcador’s expedition to Cthonia. Records say he passed peacefully due to advanced age before Malcador could return, but the administrator was a major supporter of the famed theologitect’s galaxy shaping trip to the ancient capital. The Secritariat of Assets and Outlays was a noted founding member of the Golden Circle, which would eventually be folded into the Throne’s project for the exploration and restoration of Cthonia.

>>59324331
Then the name is inherited as a man by that name has cropped up since.

>>59319036
So are the Savlar gods real?

>>59327510
From what I've read on the wiki, yeah, there are non-chaos aligned warp entities that aren't Eldar deities. So yes, the Savlar gods are real.

>>59325641
Many have. Ave Hydra

>>59325641
I think the implication is that the name is bullshit. Forged historical records, faked identities, and the like. Look at the office title.

Also Terrawatt and Uralia weren't unified prior to the Warlord showing up. Uralia was the first nation absorbed by the Imperium. It surprised absolutely no one as Terrawatt and Uralia were always joined at the hip, but when the Warlord got the natives of Skand to listen people started taking notice.

Here's something that I've been kinda curious about. Does this setting have human soldiers fighting under Tau command? I.E do Gue Vesa exist in the nobledark in some fashion?

>>59327510
Maybe. Probably. Who knows? All that is known for sure is that they aren't daemons, which would be anyone's first fear with a god worshiped on Savlar.

The thing about the Warp is it's "natural state" both as implied in canon and here is more like Avatar's Spirit World. Filled with all sorts of weird phenomena and bizarre creatures, but most of them weren't necessary hostile or benevolent. They just are. Some could be friendly. Some had weird fair folk morality. Some were predators. And so on.

Then the Old Ones figure out how to reroute naturally dispersed Warp energy normally feeding billions of minor entities into a few big constructs. Which, when they go feral, end up being superpredators to anything the Warp "naturally" produces (since they can't call on the levels of power Chaos has). And they teach their client races how to do the same.

A lot of entities were still around but marginalized by the presence of the Chaos Gods and hostile daemons produced as a byproduct of the War in Heaven (e.g., Enslavers). Then the Fall happened and Chaos really got going. The Chaos Gods when they're not focused on the Materium turn their efforts to expanding their domination of the Chaos Wastes. Most of the survivors (e.g., beings like Samus) end up throwing themselves on the mercy of Be'lakor and swear fealty just to survive.

It is possible for there to be neutral or benevolent Warp entities, but not under current condition in the Warp. They would get torn up like a bleeding man in a sea full of sharks. Any surviving Warp entities have either done so by getting out of the water (e.g., the surviving Eldar gods) or keeping as hidden as possible in the hopes of being overlooked (Savlar, Rainbow Serpent).

>>59331694
There's a human-Tau creole culture that was created in the aftermath of the Damocles Gulf campaign and from people who mingled on the border. Most of the trading would have been done through rogue traders though there would have been huge monetary opportunities to be had.

There's also been mention of humans converting to the Tau'va and moving to Tau space, and likely serving in the Tau military.

Kronus is technically a Tau world but is such a clusterfuck that Tau are in control in name only because an Ethereal is planetary governor and an Eldar is virtually just as important of a government figure because the Ethereal knows how to administrate but has no idea how to build infrastructure or a PDF (especially with most of the population coming in being non-Tau).

Though it's been mentioned you probably don't have the same numbers as in canon. The only reason the Gue'vesa are so numerous in canon is because the Imperium sent the retaliatory Damocles Crusade into Tau space and then promptly abandoned them once Behemoth happened, leaving billions stranded without supplies and at the mercy of the Tau Empire.

>>59331694
>>59331997
It's also possible that Imperial regiments stationed on planets like Kronus operate under Tau command, though as more of a combined-arms force of traditional guardsmen and traditional Tau units.
This only works because the Tau are the ones in charge; combined forces on a larger scale with the Tau tend to fall apart because they've got a stick up their ass about "only Tau should lead Tau," and putting Imperial and eldar forces under the command of a comparatively young Tau commander with little understanding or regard for how their forces work would be a monumentally stupid idea.

>>59331997
I thought Taldeer governed Kronus and that it was being used as a pension planet.

>>59333334
I think it’s less that Tau only accept being led by Tau and more the fact that most Imperial and Tau commanders still struggle to incorporate troops from the other side into their operations. For Cadian doctrine commanders, Tau troops are insufficiently resilient to be the anvil and insufficiently mobile to keep up with the Eldar hammer, and for Macharian commanders the Tau aren’t specialized enough to interest them. For Tau commanders, standard Cadian style Guard and artillery lack their preferred tactical flexibility and they probably have no idea what to do with the Imperium’s more outlandish specialized units, given they’re used to standardized, interchangeable troops. (“Why do these gue’la have biceps the size of my head and talk to their knives?”)

I imagine more cooperation happens in the modern day though; it’s been like a millennia or two since the Tau joined and that’s a lot of time to get to know each other.

>>59334724
Kronus is on paper run by the Ethereal Aun'El Shi'Ores. The problem is while Aun'Shi is good at administration and running the day-to-day operations of a working colony, he's not good with rebuilding infrastructure or the military (who do they think he is, a Shas or a Fio?) Let alone a colony in the Gulf who in addition to the surviving Tau and mixed-culture human populations, now has to deal with Kroot (thank you Kais) and numerous human and eldar cultures being shipped in to repopulate it including Ulthweans, Yme-Loc, Cadians, Vostroyans, Catachan, and even a few Kriegers (who are being surprisingly well behaved, sticking to the little bunker settlement and only sticking their heads out to trade), as well as more Tau. Kronus was supposed to be just a garden variety colony, not a bureaucratic nightmare. Even a Macharian would have trouble building a PDF out of this lot.

So he's delegated a lot of authority in building the military and to a lesser degree acting as his boots on the ground in making sure the infrastructure is rebuilt to Taldeer, who is the highest ranking surviving officer, while he focuses on making sure the government and other aspects are in one piece. Kind of like Stilicho and Honorius, only in this case Honorius is merely a fething new guy when it comes to running a planet rather than just being incompetent. Aun'Shi might see her as the closest thing the Imperium can send to a Shas'O.

Taldeer is about as happy about this as Aun'Shi is (well, Aun'Shi might be happier because a lot of the responsibility is off his shoulders) as technically the Blood Ravens and Kais had seniority over her but fucked off to who knows where and Kaurava, respectively, leaving her holding the bag.

>>59336413
She's supposed to just be training the PDF to be competent and as soon as that's done the 1st Kronus Liberators are going to be reassigned (not soon enough, in her opinion), but things keep piling up and both she and Caerys have both had visions that Gorgutz 'Ead 'Unter (who is a Brain Boy, but its debatable whether they know) is coming around for another go. And then she got '''''sick'''''.

There's a reason why Kronus is referred to as the Imperium in a microcosm.

>>59335818
Here's what the wiki has to say about it:
>After the Tau Empire was absorbed into the Imperium, Imperial commanders were eager to try to incorporate Tau Fire Warriors into this formation. The Imperium had seen how effective the Tau were at long-ranged combat, and saw great potential in their ability. In theory, the idea was to have a third group of Tau Fire Warriors providing long-range support fire from behind the Guardsman infantry, and if all worked as planned then half of the enemy army wouldn’t even be able to show up to the battle in the first place. However, in practice, this did not work for several reasons. First, the Tau were essentially a combined-arms force already (save for close combat), and didn’t appreciate being shoehorned into a long-range only role, even if they were talented at it. Secondly, much like Eldar and humans, Tau like to be commanded by Tau, so in an Eldar-Tau-human battalion you end up having three arguing commanders instead of just two. Third, and perhaps most importantly, Eldar and humans have worked together long enough to trust that one is not going to shoot the other in the back. This is not true of the Tau, especially given their attitude towards the Imperium for much of their history. When you factor in that in this arrangement the Tau are supposed to be in the back of the formation and thus in the perfect position to potentially shoot their allies in the back, the other soldiers start to get paranoid and morale drops. Eventually, it was decided to keep Tau divisions as their own separate forces, called in particularly for any enemy that has started to work out a viable counter, however soft, to the traditional Guardian+Guard one-two.
So the Imperium would love to have Tau as long-range support, but the Tau aren't into being shoehorned into a single role.

>>59335818
>Why do these gue’la have biceps the size of my head and talk to their knives?

And then they met the Ogryn and Beastmen and were given some perspective on where to draw the threshold of odd.

>>59336997
This gives me the amusing mental image of a Tau written guide to the various Human and Abhuman populations of the Imperium.

Since the thread has been talking about Tau and their place in the Imperial military, I'm kinda curious about where their technology fits in. Are there whole Imperial worlds that get their needed tech from Tau scientists and engineers despite ad-mech REEing?

>>59339139
Probably not unless you count human worlds already in the Tau Empire.

>>59339139
Depends on the tech in question. While it's doubtful that any Imperial worlds are exclusively getting their tech from the Tau, specific parts of Tau technology are starting to spread. For example the Tau's "skimming" warp-drives have caught a lot of attention and revolutionized civilian warp-travel in the areas around Tau space. The only reason it hasn't started to become standardized throughout the Imperium is a matter of logistics primarily; the Tau can only produce so many at a time, plus the Imperium has too much else to deal with to devote the resources to speed up the process. Civilians are free to aquire the drives, but they'll need to pay for it themselves, with their own money. So given enough time, and eventually all civilian warptravel through the Imperium could eventually use the Tau skimming technology, it's just that not nearly enough time has passed yet and there may not be enough time left in the setting.
on the other end of the spectrum, there's stuff like their drones. Most everybody in the Imperium thinks they're fucking idiots for not learning that they're playing with fire by pursuing AIs, even just networking stuff like Drones that aren't even sentient. Everybody else has been burned by rampant AIs, and the Tau even had an AI rebellion, so everybody is baffled at their continued use of them. Hardly anybody is going to want to buy the damn things, since they've got enough problems without the hired robots pulling a skynet (the fact that this is unlikely to happen doesn't factor into the fears regarding them).

>>59340379
>>and there may not be enough time left in the setting.
It's all up in the air though, isn't it? I'm personally expect a prolonged grueling war for thousands of more years as everyone's "power-ups" for lack of a better term, come into play.

>>59339735
>>Probably not unless you count human worlds already in the Tau Empire.
How many of these are there compared to GW canon?

>>59336818
>>59335818

Still, I do think that as much as the Tau themselves hate to be steriotype as the go-to guy for artillery support only, a few of them actually take to the idea like a fish to water. So, I'm proposing:

Regiment of Renown: The Dawnbreakers 14th Artillery Regiment.

Composition (not counting support troops, like logistics and comms, etc): 80% Tau big'uns (and their maintance crews, targeters, etc) of all kinds added by a few pieces of 'requisition'ed human BIIIIG guns that they only brings out when there was a special need for even more fireworks, 10% scouts (chiefly Tau, but also quite a few humans and a few dozen Eldar flying and cloak tanks) and 10% garrison force in case of a raid -hey, an arty only base is a pretty big prize and asking for it.

Totaling to a 40 thousand troops regiment - a seemingly small number, less than half that count of a regular regiment - until the plasma orbs start to fall.

"Dawn's breaking soon, Lord Commander. I recommend putting on your sunglasses and tanning screen." -attributed to Shas O' Oza, Shas O' of the 14th Dawnbreakers regiment, 12th Black Crusade.

>>59341579

(Perhaps the Shas O' name can be changed to Zai. Or Zin. If you understood the reference.)

>>59341180
Yeah, it's all up in the air, but from the Imperium's point of view it could all come tumbling down before integration of the tech would be complete, so they're more focused on producing military hardware and stuff that might help stave off that fate, rather than actively trying to update their civilians.

>>59342049
Fair enough, but again I have another question, what about military technology? Are the Mechanicus and the Earth Caste in competition with each other for equipping human military forces in the Imperial worlds bordering Tau space and a bit beyond? Or is there some arrangement in place that limits this competition?

>>59341579
>The Imperium likes to use Tau regiments against foes who have found a counter, no matter how soft, for the traditional Guardian + Guard combo. Tau are well-known for their skill at combined arms, even compared to other members of the Imperium. There are no bans on combined arms in this timeline because there was no Horus Heresy, but combined arms tactics in most regiments are still rudimentary due to their sheer size. Tau armies, being smaller and more elite yet supplemented by copious amounts of drones, are much more skilled at combined arms and punch a lot harder than their numbers would suggest.
So the Tau can be deployed alongside other forces, it's just not 'standardized' in a sense. They're allies, but not yet brothers-in-arms like the human-eldar forces are.
>>59342349
To best explain, I should start with how the Mechanicus and their almost-monopoly on tech functions.
Basically, Mechanicus can't technically mandate stuff to other Survivor civilizations or Xenos, since they got essentially the same deal as Mars did and if the Mechanicum tried to force the issue the Imperium would probably side with the other guy because the AdMech are assholes. What the AdMech CAN do is refuse to do business with worlds that don't comply with their rules, and since they've got a monopoly on most of the Forge Worlds and more advanced tech, this means that the only people who can tell the AdMech to get fucked and get away with it are those with the means to produce comparable levels of tech themselves.
Ultramar is a Survivor Civ, and seems to get along with the Tau fairly well, being one of the main areas where the "Tau Drive" has come into common use for the civilian forces, so they might sample some of the Tau's other advancements. Beyond that, governors or whatever are free to buy military tech from the Tau, and depending on the type of tech might even get away with it, but there's always the risk of the AdMech deciding to essentially blacklist you.

>>59342349
>>59342709
Also, it's important to know the individual AdMech you're working with. More orthodox AdMech will either allow Xeno-tech or look the other way, while the more orthodox will REEEE until you stop, and then sanction your planet if you don't stop.
Other survivor civs that have told the AdMech to fuck off will probably buy and sell with the Tau, though some of them will probably just be trying to reverse-engineer whatever they buy. The greater difficulty is that these civs usually flipped AdMech the bird because they had something equivalent or better, so it becomes a question of whether the Tau can offer anything these civs would want, and what the Tau are willing to risk having other groups figure out how to reproduce.

>>59343043
>Orthodox will allow Xenotech or look the other way, while more Conservative will REEE
Derp.

>>59343043
>>59343070
Being orthodox usually implies being conservative since you want to stick to established norms, did you mean liberal or radical?

>>59345048
In this case, "Orthodox" means taking the old mandate literally, in that the purpose of the AdMech is to safeguard "human" technology- the holy instructions don't explicitly say that Xenotech is bad, so it's not technically against the rules, so long as it's function doesn't break any of the other rules.
Conservative, on the other hand, means they are of the belief that ALL technology is theirs to control and regulate- their purpose is unyielding and unforgiving, and there can be no tolerance for potential tech-heresy, regardless of origins. Only AdMech can ensure it's safety, so only AdMech is allowed to do tech, and anyone else doing tech should only do it under the close supervision of the AdMech.

The groups aren't opposites, like liberals and conservatives, they're just varying flavors of "Overcontrolling doushebag." Orthodox will still REEE if your alien tech veers too far into what they consider tech-heresy, they've just got a slightly higher tolerance for xeno-tech. The Radicals and Liberals all got deemed Hereteks and fucked off to form their own little enclaves (most aren't even Dark Mechanicum and are even welcomed within the Imperium, they just give Mars the finger and do their own thing).

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>>59341365
At least one hive world but other than that not as many.

>>59338173
It would be full of hilarious racist caricatures, incorrect theories of origin and huge inaccuracies

>>59346321
Getting hold of a fully functional hive city must have been a hell of a shock for them.

Must have been a considerable loss to the Imperium in the local area also. It would have caused much upset and questions at higher levels if it was, I assume, given over as surrendered territory at the end of the Damocles Gulf Crusade. But the High Lords and the Royal Couple in particular operate on a much longer time frame. They knew the Tau Empire would join eventually and they would get that world back and more besides when they did.

>>59345225
You can probably easily spot the ones on the fringe, the cyber-blessing tend to be crude or non-existent unless it's an order that specializes in dubiously legal cybernetics. It's why Mars is still and always will be so popular with the plebeian masses. Every Guard veteran or industrial accident survivor with a replacement part? 99% of the time provided by tech-priests loyal to the Olympus Mons Brotherhood.

The AdMech on the other hand seem to be far less standardized and have a Council of Arch-BioDruids or some such so unless you look for the really fucked up Dr Bile shit you don't find anywhere near as many Bio-Apostates.

>>59346321
>>59349045
Do they still have control of this hive world or did they give it back to the Imperium when they joined up? Man, that's a lot of potential human helpers for the greater good if they kept it.

>>59336997
We've mentioned once or twice about the antics of Por'O M'arc, the first Tau ambassador to set foot on Earth and saw quite a bit of the Imperium. He wrote up what he saw. Nobody in the Tau Empire believed him, they thought his claims were too ridiculous to be true.

>>59350200
The AdBio's tolerance relative to the AdMech is counterbalanced by the fact that they're a bunch of hippies (literally, a big sect of them are intellectual descendants of the Druids of Merika) and have a seemingly short attention span. They get easily distracted by novel biological phenomena and tend to not standardize things and have a lot of side projects running at the same time.

Of course, a group of them were able to be tricked by someone (likely Fabulous Bill, though possibly the Dark or Crone Eldar) into thinking that creating a super-soldier out of Kroot and tyranid DNA (among other things) was a good idea and was totally approved by the Imperium higher-ups (hint: it wasn't).

>>59346321
>>59349045
>>59351157
I've only ever heard of one hive world being taken over in canon. The Tau considered it a humanitarian (sophontitarian?) crisis and basically depopulated the hive, spreading them throughout the Empire.

Whether the Tau kept the hive world in this timeline depends heavily on whether the inhabitants converted to the Greater Good.

>>59342709
Didn't Ultramar also try to court offers from several xenos and Survivor Civs (Tau, Hubworld, AdMech), reasoning that given their status and distance away from the Imperium they can afford to pick and choose where their tech is coming from?

>>59351157
Presumably still got it. All those citizens of the Tau empire patronizingly referred to as Gue'vesa? Majority of them all come from one hive world. It by itself makes up a fairly large percentage of the Tau Empire's overall population. The Etheral COuncil consider it a two edged sword, on the one hand the population adopted The Greater Good readily and have proven to be a boon to the empire in both military and manufacturing. On the other hand they live in constant fear that the damn fool humans might do something stupid all at the same time and the initial cost of civilizing the place was "a substantial investment".

By Imperial standards it was barley classed as a hive world.

>>59352581
>>The AdBio's tolerance relative to the AdMech is counterbalanced by the fact that they're a bunch of hippies (literally, a big sect of them are intellectual descendants of the Druids of Merika) and have a seemingly short attention span. They get easily distracted by novel biological phenomena and tend to not standardize things and have a lot of side projects running at the same time.
On the other hand, I'd imaging that they still do a good business making replacement body parts for the self-same people the guy you quoted mentioned in his post.

>>59352683
So there most be lots and lots of gue'vesa style troops in the Tau military then? Do the Tau trust them with more weapons and hardware then they do in canon?

I'll likely have another update for Logann's background tomorrow.

>>59354288
Metal doesn't have a tissue compatibility problem and the AdBio are more employed with the prevention and cure of diseases it seems.

>>59352683
This begs the question of how do Tau treat gene-stealer outbreaks?

>>59360810
Same as everyone else; either detain them in a remote and secure location for research into a cure or kill them as humanely as possible. There isn't anything else that you really can do.

>>59352581
I'd say that they do start to follow the tenants of the Greater Good. It's not hersy in this AU because no Ecclesiarchy or state religion and the writings of Aun'Da are a first ad foremost a philosophical text rather than a religious one so you can keep your own beliefs whilst adhering to them.

>>59360318
Yeah but the thing is that there going to be people who want their old fleshy bodypart back instead. I can't imagine the Ad-Bio not tapping into that desire.
>>prevention and curing of diseases
Obviously this would be a large part of the Ad-Bio's job.

>>based on discussion in the last thread Human/Tau relationships happen in this setting.
Neat, that means something like this could happen.

https://igorus1985.deviantart.com/art/Gue-vesa-688836080
Kinda NSFW, but only barely, and nothing really hideous either.

>>59356685
It should be noted that the Tau don't need to use humans as meatshields in this timeline. They built specialized melee suits (Mont'kau) originally suggested by Farsight back when he wasn't a renegade in part because even Kroot are kind of flimsy when up against Orks. They aren't as good in melee as Space Marines or Aspect Warriors, but they're tankier and are used in quasi pike and shot tactics to allow.

Also given the Tau's focus on combined arms and strike forces they don't usually let themselves get caught in situations where they have to hold the line. In these cases Mont'kau are basically armed with pulse shotguns with bayonets.

>>59333334 (and a bunch of later ones)
Another thing to consider is age. Tau have rejuvenant technology in this setting, but it's in its infancy and Tau are lucky to live to 100. Granted, it's still a productive 100, as in canon Tau reach maturity earlier, sleep less, and physically age much later in their lifespan than humans (kind of like Mass Effect salarians). And they are small enough that almost everyone can have access to rejuvenants, like the Hubworlders. But that's still not too different from the lifespan of a human pleb. Most human and eldar military commanders can be several times that age. Sure you have commanders like Kais or Shadowsun, but there's going to be a suspicion of Tau commanders being rather green.

>>59367088
So Humans as firewarriors then? Neat.
>>Mont'kau melee suits
Read about these on the wiki, how would they be modeled exactly?
>>stuff about age, rejuvenants, relative greeness of tau commanders resulting from that etc
Sounds reasonable.

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>>59367088
Kais isn't massively old. He has made it to ~120 only due to the time dilation effects of extensive warp travel. He has not experienced 120 years. He's also notably old now, it's just that he packed every hour full of minutes.

>>59367342
I'm imagining a slimmer Space Marine Centurion, maybe with a jetpack.

>>59368790
Converted heavy gear models, maybe?

>>59360318
>>tissue compatibility problem
What, you mean like a body rejecting a transplanted organ? Why would that be an issue when they can just take some of the DNA from the person in need of a new limb or something and then just grow it in a vat?

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>>59367342
Probably like Crisis suits on steroids. With big riot shields or something. Something that could easily wield Farsight's big sword around.

>>59367352
Yep. Kais is pretty typical in terms of age for a Tau. It's just he's talented despite his comparatively young age (his name literally means skilled, after all, which is a common name among the Tau and is kind of implied to be the equivalent of graduating summa cum laude in training).

Shadowsun on the other hand, if you added up all of the seconds, minutes, and hours she has been out of the freezer, one would find she is significantly older than any Tau has a right to be (let along one as healthy as she is). Few have noticed because who would keep track off that kind of thing (and they are more worried about her dying now than exactly how old she is), and after a while the summed number is so ridiculous somebody assumes somebody made a math error somewhere.

A few early on when the number was simply weird as opposed to completely impossible were informed by Aun'Va that there had been a rounding error in the records.

Anyone know where fulgrimwritefag has gone?

Hate to do this to you guys, but some shit came up and I'll have to delay the update a bit.

>>59377140
I'm in every thread, but I'm starting at a new job so it may be a bit before I get stuff done.

so this stuff finally came to my attention and Im reading up on it. looks like /tg/ still gets shit done. good job to you all.

>>59365169
They might be a thing but even in th e Empire they are rare.

>>59368790
It would be for CQC but it would be speedy over tanky. Tanky doesn't appeal to the Tau. Why tank a hit when you can just not be hit?

>>59319013
There should be some debate on when Skand joined the Imperium. Thengir the Cripple's original deal was to allow the Uralian and Terrawatt soldiers free use of the roads between their inland territories and the coast as well as renting them a bunch of boats.

Then, when it became apparent that this was going to be a long term deal rather than just a few months whilst the Finno-Slavs raided and plundered the weakened Nord Afrik as he assumed, Malcador and Thengir started negotiating about the roads and the maintenance of them. Most of the roads were either leftovers of previous and better regimes or were muddy dirt tracks and the soldiers on the march were having to either set up tents or rely on the hospitality of the locals. Uralia and Terrawatt start a project of building roads and waystations, hiring lots of local help. Nordyc people start to get slightly better off, initially just from the wages Malcador's administrators were paying and later when they started to make use of the roads themselves. Southern Nordyc's start to trade a bit with Franj and Europia again now that they have legitimate currency to spend which heals some of the old animosity between them at the lower societal level.

The roads also made it easier for Thengir to extend his influence into the more remote tribes and have them actually obey his law rather than just pay lip service. It was at this time that the Nordyc's of Skand went from a loose collection of nominally united tribes and petty holdings to a legitimate nation (with Russ bringing the last violent opposition to task).

Actually joining the Imperium fully, rather than being in a purely cash for service arrangement, was deferred until Franj-Europa were signing on and even then it was just so that the southerners didn't get a hold of a better deal than them.

>>59356685
The Tau weren't some backwards little nowhere empire. They had a population in the tens of billions at least not including Kroot and Vespid and what was left of the Proctoon. The human hiveworld if it was on the smaller end of hive worlds would have been a considerable event for them but not a game changer. It would have increased their overall population significantly but it wouldn't have doubled it or anything like that.

The main problem for them would not have been numbers but the change in law for the locals and getting them to accept it. As the Empire is a hell of a lot smaller and more centralized than the Imperium it is more hands on with the rules. Tau Empire is in this AU more restrictive than the Imperium.

>>59345225
We still need more divisions in the non-Dark Mechanicus.

DO the Tau go in for genetic modification?

>>59382257
Wait a minute, I thought the Tau were becoming less restrictive and that's why Farsight left with his followers after causing some trouble?

>>59384254
Less restrictive relative to what they were. Compared to the Imperium where each world is almost an authority unto themselves they are still somewhat authoritarian.

Farsight looked upon the Imperium and saw some sort of anarchy and anarchy is terrifying to the order loving bluies and the idea of adopting anything of that was sickening and perverse.

>>59384313
I take it that this is something that's been discussed in the threads, but hasn't been put on the wiki for the most part?

>>59384472
Farsight's reasons for breaking off and forming his own enclave has been put on the wiki, as has how the Tau were very resistant to the idea of joining the Imperium. Not sure if there's been anything explicitly about them being more authoritarian relative to the Imperium, but they are painted as sort of control-freaks who aren't nearly as important as they think they are.

>>59384754
I checked around a bit, and the Tau being control freaks as you put it isn't mentioned much outside of the Farsight entry in the notes section.

>>59383934
No, not unless they're doing questionable, deniable, experiments off the grid. They have been doing eugenics for thousands of years though.

>>59385332
Hmn, it seems you're right. I remember something about the Tau starting out with the same "only Tau should rule" mentality as in canon, but after joining the Imperium they've begrudgingly had to adjust it to "Only Tau should rule Tau."
It might be worth writefagging something about Tau culture in general for the wiki. I'll see if I can do something later, but feel free to take a crack at it if you like.

>>59331743
Should the Catachan gods and Cadian tree spirits fall into this category also?

>>59382257
It's still a fucking huge cultural shift overnight. If the Tau had a collective population of 90 billion over dozens of worlds and this was a small hive world, lets say 4 major hives each with only 5 billion each thats 20 billion fresh citizens. That's the population jumping up over a fifth. That's a logistics nightmare to say the very least.

>>59389081
>>59385332
>>59386397
Speaking of, one thing that could be interesting for Tau culture would be their citizen surveillance, ie their Big Brother systems.
True to their original Orwellian roots, one of the applications of the Tau's technological progress is that of a citizen-monitoring and guidance system. For the Tau, this isn't considered obtrusive, but a convenience; they can get their daily tasks, friendly reminders of upcoming events, and advice on what kind of mood their coworkers are in, all on the fly. Get an injury that, while minor, makes your back hurt? Your overseers will be informed, and you get assigned tasks that require more finesse rather than heavy lifting. Stomach bug kept you up all night? Your coworkers will know to be patient with you, and will have a mild herb drink and some Tau-Tums waiting for you. Not only is this good for making sure you're always at your most productive with the least amount of stress, but it's also great for catching disease outbreaks, gene-stealers, and (theoretically) Chaos cultists as soon as they start, making the Tau give off the impression of not having these problems because they get caught and dealt with so quickly.
Imperium governors look at this system in horror; not because of the privacy, imperial medical policies are already quite invasive, but because the idea of trying to monitor every individual inside a Hive, where even getting a reliable Census is a pipe dream at best, would probably cripple the economy, break the Governor's sanity, or quite possibly both. Just monitoring the main entrys, checkpoints, and public areas is logistical nightmare enough for the average Hive, as the Tau are discovering now that they've got a Hive-world of their own.

>>59385332
>>59386397
It's mentioned a bit on the Da entry, specifically pointing out how the Greater Good as envisioned by the guy who came up with the thing is not the same thing as the Tau'va encountered by the Imperium millenia later.

For example, Da wrote nothing about a caste system. His writings were specifically about the best way to live a virtuous life and reduce suffering in the world (along with a lot of pointers on how an idealized philosopher king would promote these values based on historical precedence, the original Tau’va was basically a cross between Confucius’ Annals, Machiavelli’s the Prince, Buddha’s teachings, etc.). The later development of the Caste system and the Ethereal council happened long after Da died (but long before spaceflight) and has about as much to do with the original Tau’va as the inner workings of the Catholic Church have to do with Jesus’ original sermons.

The implementation of the caste system had a twofold purpose: it reassured the masses that they mattered in society (“a place for everyone, and everyone has their place”, and it attempted to justify why the scholar's guild were the ones in charge to keep people from questioning them (especially given that previously T’au was ruled by either Fio emperors or Shas warlords). The Caste system and it's justification was basically like Plato's "noble lie" in The Republic, though in this case it was made by bending the truth instead of being created wholecloth.

The fact that it just so happened to give the early converts of the scholar's guild the lion’s share of the power was seen by the Ethereals as all right and fair in their mind since they were the ones with the greatest insight into how things should be run. For the Greater Good, of course. Aun’Va might have gone along with it because it seemed like a good idea at the time. It was meant to provide structure, not a straightjacket to Tau society.

>>59389876
Part of the reason the Caste system developed was the pre-spaceflight Tau were working with what were essentially multiple different ethnic groups and cultures united solely on the basis of religion. Pre-spaceflight T’au about the time of the Tau’va has been compared to a mix of early China and the Abbasid Caliphate (ironically, T’au is pretty arid even in canon). You have the majority of the populace (Arabs/Earth Caste) who represent the farmers and civilians (and before the Tau’va most of the ruling class). You have the steppe nomads (Seljuk Turks/Fire Warriors), recently brought into the fold via religion, who have put down their arms and become the military arm of the government. You have a minority group who despite being marginalized tends to control a lot of merchant operations (Non-Islamic groups/Water Caste, though the treatment of Jews in medieval Europe might be a better analogue). You have another minority group who tends to act as bureaucrats to the ruling class and keeps the empire running (Persians/Ethereals), etc. Obviously it’s not a perfect comparison, and even the above is overgeneralizing what life in the Abbasid Caliphate was like (and then there’s the matter of the Air Caste), but you have the issue of keeping multiple separate groups with initially very different cultures in line (thankfully, in this case they were all virtually one religion). The Tau worked with what they had.

>>59389963
Then the Tau found out they were not alone in the universe and aliens existed and you get the “only Tau should rule” added to the Tau’va. Which wasn’t an issue at first because aside from one AdBio Magos the only aliens the Tau had met were the Poctroon, Orks, Kroot, and Vespid along with a few other literally whos. The Poctroon and Kroot were not numerous enough to rock the boat, the Orks were a lost cause, and the Vespid eagerly accepted Greater Good missionaries (the Tau’va being very appealing to a naturally eusocial species). By Tau standards the Tau thought they were the only ones who had an idea of how the universe should be organized. The Tau cluster was dense but sparsely inhabited, having been isolated by a Warp storm for several thousand years. Then the Tau started expanding beyond the Tau cluster and bumped into the Imperium, and they suddenly encountered their first alien empire who had their own philosophy and didn’t just roll over on first contact (or were Orks. Fukkin Orks).

Even with humans who converted, the question becomes where do they fit into the Greater Good? By Tau standards, humans have no consistency, there is no clear division of labor and humans jump between jobs as they please. It didn’t help that the Tau had been living in a monoculture since their medieval period, so there was little point of reference.

The general opinion of the Tau now is that most societies have some glimpses of the Greater Good, as the teachings of the Tau'va represent universal truths on how to live and govern, but the Tau have the deepest and most comprehensive understanding of it. They take great pride in the fact that on many issues they have (or had) the moral high ground over the elder races (humans, eldar) and haven't committed the same sins that they have. Tau generally don't kill other Tau and generally don't get enticed by Chaos (emphasis on generally). Humans and eldar can't say the same.

>>59390099
I would go so far as to argue that the Tau took so well to the Tau’va because they are descended from ungulates, and therefore prone to herd mentality and trust in authority. Not that it’s impossible, see Farsight, but it’s a bigger factor in their psychology than other species. The Tau’va would not have worked so well with humans, because humans are naturally competitive, hierarchical primates with an inherent distrust of authority. Hypothetically the eldar might have taken to it a bit better, given they can selectively express their genome in a similar manner to the caste system and have a taboo against backstabbing members of the in-group, but eldar have their own pantheon and worldview and a lot of the history of the Old Eldar Empire was composed of squabbles between clans and noble houses (that is, their in-group can be remarkably small, despite the "we're all in this together" attitude of the Craftworlders).

>>59390130
On the other hand, the Imperium has forgotten more than the Tau have ever known, and the (Crone) eldar probably have something that could devolve their entire species back into ungulates, if only the could find where they put it.

Has anything been said about how the Tau view the Necron Star Empire? Trayzn is fond of his casteless peasant Tau, they remind him of what the Necrontyr could have been if only they weren’t from a death world. I assume Necrons were another thing the ethereals didn’t believe were out there, or didn’t believe the Imperium’s explanation of their history, until they started encountering them personally.

>>59390130
>>The Tau’va would not have worked so well with humans, because humans are naturally competitive, hierarchical primates with an inherent distrust of authority.
How does this square up with humans following the Tau'va as a philosophy?

>>59390945
Well yes, this is more what the Tau tell themselves. On the one hand, they have avoided some of the worst parts of the history of other species. Until now. On the other hand, this may be because they haven't been around long enough to screw up like the elder races have.

There was an incident in canon where a Tau world was attacked by tyranids, only for the Moon to turn out to be a Necron Tomb World and the Necrons fight off the tyranids. The Ethereal of the planet hails the Necrons as heroes only for the Necrons to slaughter the Tau during the celebration. Some sources I've seen have said the Necrons only started killing everybody several days after the celebration started.

Given the Necron nobility in this timeline are a bit more sociable with the bad habit of having their free will overrrun and start initiating murder.exe when the Silent King comes calling, one can almost imagine in this timeline the event went down like a combination between Pizarro's conquest of the Inca and Harbinger ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

>>59394721
More like it is difficult to see how humans could be united under a single unifying philosophy and then stay united for millennia, much less one that involves very little self-advancement. Several east Asian cultures and some European and Middle East theocracies come the closest to the latter and even then they had their share of bloody rebellions. It wouldn't be the success story the Tau'va was.

>>59390945
It's the Nemensor with the casteless Tau, although we have nothing else on them beyond that.

>>59395554
How many Necrons can realistically defy the will of the Silent King?

>>59397489
Not many. The Nemensor can do it because he's gone crazy/senile, so the override codes just come up with systemerrors because files they rely on don't exist anymore, or have been unrecognizably altered. Trayzn can do it because he planned ahead and knew enough about the process to remove his own override codes, if I remember correctly. Their underlings get away with it because they're technically "obeying their lord," and thus not disobeying the Silent King, but simply following the chain of command.
Beyond that, resistance is largely futile. Most of them operate on a rules-lawyering sort of "well the Silent King didn't say I couldn't" kind of deal, but anything that directly or indirectly opposes his will results in ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

>>59397221
What we do know:

That they are the descendants of early colonists in one of the lost colony ships and as they have been separated from the Tau Empire since then they have not benefited from any new technological developments and are still using tech not too much far advanced from 20th century Earth, bar recently imported toys.

Their world was described as the more habitable of the two inhabitable worlds in the Nemesor's Estate but that's not a great achievement as the other one is very borderline.

They have abandoned the caste system due to the limited gene-pool and have interbred to the point were they wouldn't easily fit into the modern caste system.

The Nemensor occasionally visits them in an official capacity to remind them that he still exists and this is still actually his planet. They pay some minimal and mostly symbolic tribute as they don't have anything particularly valuable.

They aren't aware of anything in the Tau Empire since the date they lost contact with it and the Tau Empire is totally unaware of their existence and considers the lost colony ship ancient history long since dead and buried.

>>59398951
I imagine that the Tau Empire and the Tau Colony have been intentionally kept unaware of each other by the Imperial Ambassador and her team for the simple reason that nobody would be happy if they found out. The Tau Empire would not gain anything from laying claim to them beyond mild expense re-uplifiting them. The Yokel-Tau would not survive as a culture and would not be happy under The Empire having grown in a completely different direction and the Nemensor wouldn't be happy if someone tried to take his least shit planet from him because of he offered a safe haven to a bunch of primatives and the primatives won't leave a planet they have invested so much time and effort into working.

All in all the Yokels getting back in contact with their increasingly distant ancestral home is of no benefit to anyone.

>>59387751
They are in the maybe/maybe not category. It will never be either proven or disproven.

>>59383323
The problem is that the Olympus Mons Brotherhood don't approve of any way but their way and hold all of the power. You can possibly get distinct factions as something other than an underground renegade club further out on the fringes where mars can't see as clearly but they can't go against the will of Mars openly.

So in 999M41 what is going on on the other worlds of Sol besides Earth and Mars?

>>59398951
Why is it so uninhabitable?

>>59403009
Hmm, I would assume Titan is still the homebase of the Grey Knights, Ganymede is basically a prison/storage facility for shit the Imperium would rather stay contained.

If I had to guess, I would imagine that the gas giants are being "mined" for various gasses and anything else the Imperium/Ad-Mech might find useful. I have no idea if the Imperium/Ad-Mech retain the knowhow to have a presence on places like Venus and Mercury. Pluto and the other planetoids like it are likely being exploited in some fashion, as is the asteroid belt.

>>59404322
>>59403009
There's a Blank colony set up either at or past Pluto, if I remember correctly. A lot of the moons around the gas giants are probably either mined for resources, turned into super-fortresses to defend Terra, or both.

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>>59403578
If it's an ancient Necrontyr world, and given how close it is to Zahndrekh's home it must have been at least sparsely populated as it does have an atmosphere, then it would have been a potential target for Old One and their servants to attack. Also Zahndrekh never set up his home there so that would imply that it was never a particularly nice place even before the Old Ones wrecked it and as the Necrontyr had a high discomfort threshold then it must have been really shit. Gidrim by contrast might have been pretty verdant before the War in Heaven broke it and the subsequent ~65,000,000 years of neglect.

And it is barely inhabitable for Tau who are native to a slightly arid but warm planet. To this end I'm going to suggest that the planet is shit because it looks like the arse end of Antarctica. It's cold and wet and for an added bonus the o-zone layer is a bad joke. There is life on the surface, the flora caps out at a bit of hardy moss and the most exciting fauna is a beetle looking thing the size of a human thumbnail that moves very slowly and eats moss. There is also a bit of pink algae in the ice and a type of worm that very slowly corkscrews through the ice.

The sea is a little more interesting. There are crabs and snails but nothing as complex as a real fish. The local Tau eat mostly the kelp and seaweed and reserve snail and crab for special occasions. Thankfully the snails like creatures grow big enough and have enough fiber material in them that their skin can be used for making clothing out of and they typically have enough fat and oil content that they can make fire from them with a bit of effort. One of the things Nemensor Zahndrekh donated to them out of charity was fresh, warm insulation cloth thus instantly gaining their trust

The planet has no axial tilt or moon so there is no tide or seasons. One day is much like another; shit. The hydro system is minimal and most of he fresh water is holed up in ice caps at the unnecessarily large poles

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>>59406919
The life forms on the planet (we really need a name for this planet) seem to be derived from two prior existing ecosystems that have either evolved in total isolation from each other or many species have been imported from elsewhere after the initial terraforming work was done. Many of the lifeforms have genetic markers consistent with life found on other old Necrontyr world but the others show resemblance to Tarellians. It can be assumed that either the Necrontyr took and inhabited a former Old One colony or simple cross contamination occurred accidentally. After so many eons without record it's now impossible to know.

The Tau better off now than they were. When Nemensor Zahndrekh found them they were still living in the disassembled remains of their original colony ship with a few outbuildings and extensions made of local stone, using technology they couldn't reproduce or replace, gradually dwindling away. Nemensor Zahndrekh did offer them far more than they would take, they had their pride and didn't know him yet. Indeed their ancestors set out from the homeworld before the Tau had made first contact so the notion of alien intelligence was still pretty world shaking.

As it stands now the Tau have the ability to replace most of the tech that they are using, very slowly and carefully. They have mines and a few workshops and processors. Their population is on the increase and they have several satellite settlements, each as bleak seeming as the original landing site. Sometimes they will wonder about the old homeworld their ancestors set out from but it is a distant event, many generations removed from living memory or relevance.