>>82215096
You should probably reduce the font size on the Letche, it makes it look like a foreign nation.
Not that it's position helps.

>>82215172
It might be clearer if I fade out foreign nations slightly to make the Lapsarian region names pop more.

Did we ever complete the Jasendorf compass?

>>82215641
I don't think so.

>>82215096
>Printing press and Lapsarian Publications

To wit I present an excerpt from my mint condition copy of To Love a Tsarina, Lapsaria's number one pop-up smut book banned by the state, signed by the author himself before he was hauled off to a northern labor camp for defamation of royalty.

>"To think a common man such as I would be so lucky to not only be childhood friend's with a palace maid to arrange for me invitation to the royal ball where I caught the eye of a not just a royal handmaiden but one beloing to the Tsarina herself, then introduce me to her and then to find out her highness's favored lady courtier is the same woman I courted and had a secret tryst with not days before, and instead of exposing my man-whorish ways as she so easily could boasted of my physical prowess and stamina in such a way with double entendre as to make others ignorant of the true conversation but none the less make myself blush ear to ear. Now I find myself alone waiting with baited breath within the Tsarina's very bed chambers as she had invited me for 'intensive research of literary bodies of work' but as she enters the chamber the only body of work laid bare before me was not of the literary kind. "

>>82215714
Absolute lowest level of literary trash.
It's perfect anon.
Turns out it was just supposed to be the suitors auto-biography all along

>>82215780
Please no. I already don't like the suitor, because he's a joke character in a setting that's meant to be taken seriously.

>>82215825
My Guy, the visual medium we've built the back of this setting on is wojak memes, even a serious setting is better off with a sprinkle of humor to better contrast the serious moments.

>>82215852
Normally I'd agree, but suitor is just purely a chad meme. With no attempt to give him an actual personality.

>>82215852
nta but I'd still say it's more fun as in universe fiction, maybe include him as an oft imitated cultural icon like Sherlock Holmes or Romeo

>>82215858
people even tried to make him come on top of the good joke character (Jasentorf Prince) though I tried to push back on that

>>82215873
he's a literary stock character in the steamy romance novels of the day

>>82215873
Ok, the suitor just being the novel's main character that had a deep cultural impact over Lapsaria is actually a cool ideal.

>>82216054
Oooooh, I like this! He's the equivalent of the Ripped Hasyyian wrestler, or the Royal Pool boy.
However he's perforated society to such a degree the average Lapsarian believes he's actually a real person.

Is any magic used in everyday life in Lapsaria? Or is it all kept secret? How would a PC or NPC even know of its existence if so?

>>82216208
Seems magic is ritualistic, difficult and dangerous.
So it's probably treated like the other eldritch horrors.

>>82216225
Well the Church could have a monopoly on certain kinds of practical rituals.

>>82216208
How I envision it magic is how it was seen in Victorian culture. Seances, 'magical' tinctures, astrology, etc. being part of how people see the world but the vast majority of it being fraudsters not inducted into the real esoteric arts.

>>82216241
Imagine learning the stone song for decades, and in your old age some Lapsarian Yuppie comes up, calls you a filthy digger and HE knows how to talk to rocks, chugs a poultice and fucking dies because it's 5% black salt and 5% arsenic and 90% mercury.

How are the rules looking? I'm not good at design, I'm curious if CCA can do game design.

>>82215858
Lmao suitors great and the fish side needed a chad, unless you wanna tell me that the Slab Knight & Breaker & Captain aren't all exactly the same and that we need 3x of basically the same stone chad man character

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>>82215714

>>82216905
Snorting the dust of progress and getting donkey punched by a mutated craftsman apparently turns you into a muscled greyscale man.

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>>82216979
Slab Knight used Harden

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Should we discuss Ververia?

The only part there really has been discussion on is the Ververian campaign and all we have on that is that it wasn't as successful as hoped and caused a restructuring of Lapsaria's military in the aftermath of it.
We don't really have much on them except that they're a stone worshiping society and Lapsaria launched a military campaign against them in the recent past. We should get a base down of what their culture and society are (I want to say them being related to the Suuri was discussed.) and how life there has changed in the face of Lapsaria's rising power, especially given their close borders and assumedly hostile relations.

>>82215096
>> The Suuri Tundra
>> Perkeland

I see what you did there, anon.

>>82217637
that's just India, bro

>>82217640
What'd he do?

>>82218333
Suomi means finish in fisnish and Perkeland is a reference to perkele which is the Finish Kurwa

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>>82215641
no, since I was both the only one drawing for it and the one compiling it, it kinda died. Compiling it is too frustrating for me, I don't like it.

>>82218665
that being said, if someone gives me an inspiring prompt, I still may draw it.

>>82218665
They’re all very good, but I think people got compass’d out.

>>82218665
>>82219048
Tbh, it's not compassed out, but I feel like the Jesentrof barrier of entry is too high for me to contribute. I just don't know enough to make something that fits in there compared to the rest of the world

>>82219158
so what compass would be better? A NORF compass?

>>82219158
just make something up, compass canon is level 1 canon after all

>>82218665
Personally, this is indicative of a lack of shared group focus. I adore what you've done, but you shouldn't need to do it alone.
So we can keep it on the metaphorical back-burner. Finish up other things and make sure its a group effort if/when we get to Josen.

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I'm remaking the dualist to fit the setting more, just because I think he is a good meme.
Thing is I ended up with tow versions and I can't decided, I personally prefer the look of this one.

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>>82222317
But this version with monocles fits better with being blind in one eye part.
Thoughts?

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I added another suggestion from an old thread to the compass

>>82222508
Nice.

>>82222508
>The water wyrms
Ah yes, good to see the true masters of the Italio-Swiss added.

>>82222336
I personally prefer the monocle, but that's just because I did monocles.

>>82222336
I like the Monocle, but I'm not sure I understood the
> blind in one eye
thing

>>82222336
I like the lad.

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>>82222508
Now with text for the people I had saved the text for.

>>82218646
And Suuri means Great in Finnish which is just Bigly in burgerland.

>>82223146
Gonna be honest, I came up with the name Suuri and I didn't know it meant Great in Finnish. I chose it because it sounded Uralic based on the phonology.

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>>82222999
Here's my attempt to screencap what the original anon wrote.

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>>82208835
Sorry it took me so long anon, I increased the transparency of foreign nations to make it clearer The Lechte is Lapsarian.

>>82223289
Oh, that one. that was pretty kek

>>82223290
Should have faded Hasyym too, they may be dependent on Lapsaria but are still a foreign nation.

>>82223290
>our numbers grow...

>>82223347
Whoops, I just missed Hasyym. It wasn't intentional.

>>82222999
> quad-trip
Damn, these threads are on fire

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>>82223408
>>82223347
>>82223353
Fixed.

>>82223180
Well, now you know you've accidentally made The Great Tundra

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>>82200673
>>82200688
>>82200704
>>82200749
>>82200790
>>82201729
Fixed the spelling of Jasentorf on the compass.

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New version of the dualist.
I just realized that he would never wear a monocle, even if only of his eyes is fucked. The man is obliviously insane enough that the mere idea of wearing only lens would make him seethe.

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>>82223746
have a fucked eye on the bloke

>>82223779
Thank you anon.

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The Synanceian Dualist
>ancient texts describe duality of Earth and Water, sure that there is also Air and Fire
>has gone blind in one eye staring at the sun through telescopes, searching for "Solar Species"
>heretic to the church and a madman to the university, but has tenure
>challenges those that disagrees with him to duels
Tried to add more things to the wall, but my computer started to scream

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>>82223779
I turned the fucked up eye a bit darker, just to make it not look like a glass eye.

>>82224221
SOMEBODY STOP HIM

>>82224221
I can’t believe my shitpost meme’d its way into reality.

>>82224221
Absolutely fantastic.

>>82224393
Well, it was a good shitpost, and also fit the setting's feel, so why not?

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>>82223123

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>>82224863
Larger version

>>82224877
Very nice.

>>82224863
>>82224877
Now that really good anon.

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I need a second opinion on the canoe art before I finish the second half

>>82225006
I'm diggin it anon

>>82225006
I'd add some audatious colour. they paint their helmets bright, why not their canoes

>>82225006
HOLY GRAIL.

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>>82225049
Audacious enough?

>>82225006
>>82225115
Looking good.

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>>82225115
ir is audacious enough just then when you are satisfied. But real life nets your more audacity.

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>>82225143

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>>82225143
This is the example I was working off, so I'll see if I can spice it up a little lol

>>82223723
I’m like, 90% sure it’s -Trof
I thought the argument was whether it was Jasen- or Jesen-

>>82225268
nah it was -torf, -trof is just a common misspelling

>>82215873
>>82216054
>>82216095
Brilliant

>>82225268
Looking at the archives, there's been only 3 usages of Jasentrof vs 30+ for Jasentorf. Jesentorf vs Jesentrof yield comparable results, so I'm pretty sure -torf is the correct one

>>82220696
I agree, but I think this for me is because I don't have too much time to keep up with the threads and don't feel comfortable just throwing something in half-blind. I probably should though, better than nothing I suppose

>>82225268
torf, from dorf, village in German

Can someone look at the rules document. Is all the hyperlinks a good idea, or am I going overboard? I try and link each mention of a skill or stat in an example to that skill or state in the character creation chapter.

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ok got the Canoe art done, time to start on the Suuri hunters

>>82225645
I think the great white didn't like how smug the rear Narwhal drawing was

>>82225628
I personally think it's good to have these for easy access, but their current presentation is a bit distracting. It's not a priority, but chnaging the hyperlink decoration to something more subtle (remove the blue, just leave it underlined, or remove the underline and leave it in bold/italics) might help.

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>>82225685
>Smug Narwhal

>>82225828
When I make a formatting pass I'll change them to italics, I've seen it used well elsewhere.

Glossary Terms get bolded, Links get italicized.

>>82225628
I like it, makes it easier to find something than scrolling through the document or using the search function.

>>82225855
>Glossary Terms get bolded, Links get italicized.
Aren't link related to glossary terms though? Like, when you talk about Effort, if it has a link to the Effort section will it be both Bolded and Italicized?

>>82225897
Glossary terms are more like Player & Game Master.

Later when I write the Hindrance & Advantage section it will be specific Hindrances & Advantages like Hard to Dodge, Armor Piercing, Superior, etc.

>>82225926
Ah, I see.

Before I throw myself into this, is there some areas that we deliberately want to keep vague?

Anyone who is reading the document, can you look at the Hindrances & Advantages and tell me if it's understandable? I'm writing the example now.

>>82226629
Imagine you're a GM. You're creating a world for players to investigate. In that regard, that's where we want obfuscation. While in other pettier areas, big information is good for investment.

>>82226629
doesn't hurt to have a lot of detail about mundane stuff like the kinds of clothing different cultures wear or the music they listen to.

If something is esoteric or unusual it's usually better to say less.

Like I said in a criticism of the movie Dagon like 2 days ago, with storytelling you usually want show not tell, but with lovecraftian horror you want don't show don't tell.

>>82226975
In your opinion how do you feel about magic in the setting as I have described it thus far?

>>82226992
on the docs or just in the threads?

cause magic is kinda sparsely written about on the docs last I checked.
But I do like the style of magic you've described in the threads of basically just victorian occultism, but it's actually real sometimes

>>82227132
Right now the Esotera in the docs are extremely sparse, I agree. I meant the threads.

So this will become more clear as I fill in the character creation section, but one of the aspects I want to mention is:

>Effort is how many dice you roll
>Effort is determine by Statistic
>Statistics are more expensive to increase than Skill
>Effort is augmented during checks by using dice in your Effort Pool
>The Effort pool gets larger faster than Edge

>Threshold is the number you're trying to roll under
>Threshold is determined by Skills
>Skills are cheaper to increase than Statistics
>Threshold is augmented during checks by spending Edge
>The Edge pool gets larger smore slowly than Effort

I did this to try and keep you with roughly equal overall resources as a character to augment either side of the checks, Effort and Threshold.

>>82227463
I'll be honest, I'm a brainlet when it come to systems, rules and dice distribution, I just learn them and roll.
So I can't be much of help for you boss.

>>82228096
That’s alright, we’ve entered the slow and steady part of development.

Any thoughts on wargame titles?

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It's a quiet night, so let me try to change the topic to something I feel needs expanding:
1. Ghosts. Right now the lore document is a blank page, and beyond the wojack (which looks very cool, nice The Terror vibes), we know next to nothing about their capabilities or behavior. Can they turn others into ghosts? Are the Capri Bay ghosts the ONLY ghosts in the world, or are there other smaller concentrations here and there?
2. The Delvers. It's fine for them to be mysterious and always unseen, but perhaps they could be expanded by describing their cavern systems a bit more. I don't know if anyone here has read the Mystery Flesh Pit, but some inspiration could be found there I think. Underground ecosystem, perhaps mixed with some Pueblo-like underground cities that are mysteriously abandoned.
3. Wendigo. Another "they exist" monster class. How classic wendigo we talking here? Can they mimic voices? Do they eat human flesh? What are their origins? Is "Wendigo" even a good word to use here, or does it put us into a box and we should look for other Arctic terrors for inspiration?

I don't expect all of these things to be expanded upon instantly, and will try to work on some ideas tomorrow - but I do think these are current gaps in the setting's lore that don't bring us too far afield like Josentorf does.

>>82229516
I'm bad with names, but some scenarios could be:
The Vervaria Campaign
The Northern Front
The Durite Revolt

>>82217637
The lands west of the Venit should be what Lapsaria conquered during the Ververian campaign. Not nearly as much as what they wanted to take, but enough that the Tsardom could spin it as a victory.
>>82229544
I remember something a couple threads back about Wendigos supposed to just be Vastian rock eater types who live in the tundra and have mutated some from being cannibals.

>>82229516
>Above All
airship combat

>>82229544
>1. Ghosts are a consequence of Pain. This unfortunately means that while there have likely been many over the years, an industrial era fueled by pain is gonna skyrocket ghosts.
>2. Personally I'm not sure how much to give to the delvers, but I prefer 'final' ambiguity with multiple potential origins. Fossils, abandoned cities, really weird Vasters, etc, etc.
>3. While I can't say just how much my Cree ancestors would approve or disapprove of the term, it's kind of THE term now. I also liked multiple strains of terror, so long as we avoid the slapped on antlers. Vastian terrors with a taste for blood and basic understanding that men hit with rock stop moving, impossibly old 'old Suuri' whove been so changed they're sapient again and are closer to elderitch abominations, new Suuri tribesmen seduced by hunger and transformed by the meat. Creates an interesting scenario in which each of these creatures have different strengths and weaknesses, though to the Lapsarians ignorant in the south they're all just Wentigo.

>>82229643
"Above All" is a sweet name, but I dunno how extensive airship combat is in this setting.

>>82229544
The Wendigos are just a different breed of the rock eater troglodyte, that have turned into cannibals. Some have mutated due to second hand Oil consuption. They also beat polar bears to death and wear the carcasses.
They are way stronger and smarter than they look like, having learned how to mimic speech to try and lure victims, are capable of stealth and setting up traps, can throw large rocks or other objects and in some occasion they can band together to attack groups, normally when they become desperate.

>>82229624
So they only manage to get one fort and one town, plus some villages?
>>82229663
The Lapsarian just calling every cannibal in the tundra a Wendigo does fit how their attitude of calling every tribe suuri.

>>82229666
Yeah, I think in lore the majority of the Lapsarian airship fleet deserted after Capri and is now just chilling in Highharbor, raiding everything they can, while the new Tsardom fleet is supposed to have something like less than 10 ships. Just thought it was a neat name.

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>>82229671
>>82229663
>>82229624
Okay, how's this?
>The Wendigos are a divergent strain of rock eater troglodyte that have acquired a taste for human flesh.. Some have mutated further from to secondhand Oil consumption - gaining greater strength, intelligence, and (according to survivor reports) the ability to mimic human speech. They are extremely territorial, and one of the first warning signs of their presence in an area is the throwing of rocks towards trespassers from beyond their line of sight, along with threatening sounding phrases stolen from previous victims - which can range from the classic “OH GOD HELP ME” to snippets of casual conversation. The former verbalization usually only serves to lure trespassers in further, which aggravates the Wendigo further, which leads to the wendigo deciding to indulge in the moveable feast that has decided to offer itself so rudely. Specimens that do make their way back to civilization are never long lived - they cannot survive long when removed from their arctic clime. As a result, natural philosophers dismiss the provided corpses as hoaxes, and even the least skeptical of them doubt their ability to match human capabilities. On occasion, captured wendigo can be utilized by Suuri warbands as a kind of suicide unit; as when enraged they will readily attack the first thing they see, and if that first thing happens to be a Lapsarian soldier then the Suuri’s plan has been successful. Their hide and muscles are almost bulletproof, seemingly frozen by unnatural cold; although the application of sufficient amounts of lead will eventually bring them down. Fire is a known weakness; and they are easily baited with fresh bloody meat laced with poison. They seem to possess little in the way of what can be called “culture”, although they show a tangible reverence for bears - particularly the polar bear, whose carcasses they wear as camouflage. As for how they hunt the bears, it is by hand. They beat them to death with their fists.

>>82229732
It's a proud Imperial tradition all the way back to Romans refusing to acknowledge that mainland Hellas wasn't just an extension of the Shithole of Graeci in Sicily.
Although no one ever got it worse than Gaul, which only ever unified because Rome came a knockin.

>>82229903
The only thing I'd change is fist beatings to fists and stones. But that's just me.

>>82229955
Okay, changed to:
>As for how they hunt the bears, it is by hand - using both bare fists and simple stone hand axes.

>>82229903
I wouldn't make the suuri capture or use them, and note that sometimes the wendigos decide to go hunting for man-flesh to make them not completly passive.
But it's a good lore otherwise.

>>82229977
>I wouldn't make the suuri capture or use them
Sorry, that was just my idea to make them a unit for the Suuri in a hypothetical wargame.
Is there anyone who likes the idea, or should I remove it?

>>82229977
Oh, and of course those hunting groups increase in case of famine.
Instead of a bored caveman or someone looking for a snack, you now have a bunch of desperate yeti coming to eat you.
If some of them die, than it's just a bigger meal if they win.

>>82229998
Oh, in that case you can keep it, as long as the suuri gets a "beastmaster" unit who also gets a polar bear coat to trick the captured wendigo.

>>82229977
I disagree, especially if we delineate subtypes from a broader perspective. A particularly desperate or skilled band of Suuri utalizing Vastian wendigo and more purposeful ones is on brand.
Although the ancients would be one of the few things that would scare the shit out of the wooden warriors.

>>82230032
Okay, THAT'S cool.
>Hmmmm, big strong bear capture me. Big strong bear might know where food is. Me go hunt with big strong bear.

>>82229732
Could be that the Lapsarian's originally pushed quite a bit further into Ververia, but due to long supply lines and heavy casualties from hit and run attacks, the offensive got bogged down and slowly pushed back as Ververia went into total war mode. With the war taking much longer and costing way more lives and money than planned or expected, the Tsardom negotiated a peace treaty with Ververia, who decided to give up some of its land for peace, kinda like Finland at the end of the Winter War.

The Tsardom tried to spin the war as a victory, but the huge casualties and large amount of crippled and disfigured veterans coming home hurt their efforts. In the aftermath of the campaign, the Tsar begins a series of reforms to the Lapsarian military, with the goal of creating a better trained and more efficient army.

>>82230036
I thought it was to make something common, not an option or something a specific tribe does.
Now that we cleared the misunderstanding I'm in support of the idea.

>>82230032
>>82230041
Changed to:
>On occasion, a Suuri shaman will manage to capture a young wendigo male and use a bear skin costume to “trick” or “hypnotize” or otherwise convince it to temporarily “hunt” with the Suuri warband. Usually this involves attacking the next thing the wendigo and his new beastmaster encounter, and if that next thing is a Lapsarian patrol then the Suuri shaman’s plan will have been successful.

>>82230084
Nice.
This also means you can have different types or loadouts for your shaman.
Other than the bearcloack shaman, what else could it be? Ancestor shaman that buff the Ancestral hero, and make it so if he fall you can promote a unit to it once? One that is a specialist on wood crafting so he can "heal" other units or strengthen them? Totem shaman that carries the Tribes totem, as long as he lives the other units get a small buff, but the close ones get a big one, so if you can make a risk/reward deal?

I'll try to expand the Ghost and Delver sections tomorrow (Delvers don't even exist on the lore sheet at all), but until then keep giving some ideas. Remember these have to be things that PC's can potentially encounter and fight against.

>>82230302
There was a bit on how the Durites saw the delver on the professor's journal that happened the last thread.
It should be right at the top if it's a thread before that.

>>82230169
Wood shaman, Stone Totem Shaman, Wolf Shaman, Ancestral Shaman, Blubber Shaman which is what they call the biggest guy in the tribe in the event of a famine,, Cave Shaman, Salt Shaman.
Then, the Narwhal Shaman, but that's just an Old Suuri thing as I like the idea of there being some ancient tribe hanging out and pointing ZA WHALE at anyone who gets a little too close. Pure fish diet and they refuse to even go near the land.

Imagine your Bear Shaman walking around with your party in downtown Synance, and the local constable stops you to demand you put your "pet" on a leash.
"It's local ordinance, you know." As he taps his foot patiently.

>Lapsarian, the ones in charge, are dark haired & dark eyed
>the roving bandits, nomads, and underclass Timajor are blonde & blued eyed
Huh

>>82230509
It's even worse. The upper class are golden eyed.

>>82230509
To be fair, this was actually the case in real life. Just in India, back when the Indo-Europeans first invaded.

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>>82230537
>>82230613
What is the racial hierarchy in the setting? If any?

I assume from everything we've said it goes something like:
Lapsarian > Kossoki = Venit = Bandree = Timajor > Aemii = YUechodi > Hasyyiam > Freeskalan > Durite

Masovii & Jasentorfans don't go on the hierarchy because they're too large of groups and have too large of foreign empire to categorize. Suuri also is just a general term for all the northern tribes.

My assumption was that the Aemii was ethnically the same as the Suuri just north of them, it's just that the Lapsarians don't call them Suuri because they're on the Lapsarian's side.

>>82230509
And the two smart guys are gingers.

>>82230648
Kossoki would likely be under the settled river people along with the Aeimii and Yechod

>>82230648
Put the Bandree one over the rest, maybe also put an (=?) too.
Becayse thet have been fully assmilatated into lapsarians, so unless you go hunting for genealogy or just assume everyone that lives in the peninsula is one, you can't really notice.

>>82230648
I imagine outside of Lapsarian at the top and Durites at the bottom, the rankings are all over the place. Like, if you're still buying glass and craftworks, you're fine with the Yechods. Most don't even know who the Aemii are, and the Bandree are like Cornish. Still there ethnically but the language is dead and the culture almost to match. Meanwhile if you live in raid range of the Kossoki or Timajor you fucking hate them. Unless you were in the army and you know those guys because they smuggled in the good wine for you and the other lads. I'd also put the Freeskals up a ways because they're pretty endearing. Also cheep milk prices.

Also. While the Aemii are genetically close to the Old Suuri, they've got almost nothing in common with the new Suuri. Being reliant on Stone Yaks and either selling or tributing the extremely useful droppings to either side let's them just kind of ignore their neighbors.

So the shit life of the Border Soldiers include:
>East
The Durite Campaign
>West
Border skirmishes with Ververia
>North
Suuri tribal raids
>South
Literal constant race war

Sounds unfun.

>>82230767
Don't forget the paranoia and fear the either Masovii or Jasentorf will decide to get in on the fun.

>>82230694
>>82230713
>>82230761
Ok so more like:

Lapsarian >= Bandree > Venit = Timajor = Yechodi > Kossoki = Aemii > Hasyyiam > Freeskalan > Durite

Hasyyiam gets a boost since the Crown Executioner is a public figure and gives them a fear fueled respect boost a court.

>>82230799
I see a war with Masovii as most inevitable, even more inevitable than the often delayed invasion of the Sunset Islands.

>>82230923
Yeah, a rational fear for the Masovii war and an irrational paranoia that Jasentorf will decide to pitch in.

>>82230987
>Ambitious Princess decides now is the perfect time to rally some other princes and go get her fiefdom some lebensraum
>Devil's Alliance with the Tsarina

>>82230648
>>82230804
Let me just state that the concept of "Race" isn't really thing outside of modern cultural norms.
If anything, there's the separation of People around me > People not around me but part of my country > Foreigners with civilization > Foreigners without civilization
They dislike different countries and different religions - they really don't have the history to dislike different races, as that idea of race is really just a byproduct of justifications for slavery while still abiding by religious practice.
If anything, the idea of Race is probably closer to being found in Masovii than Laprasia, due to their social caste stuff, but it's still not the same - they're all still Masovii regardless of that

>>82229903
Really liked this! Seems very evocative and raises lot's of possiblities for a campaign

>>82230057
This is precisely what I had in mind. Lapsaria had a good beginning to the war, but after a while the war effort got too expensive, and as such they just took some land (and all the slab dust they managed to get during the occupation) and declared that a win

What tech level is Ververia at? Besides the supply line issues, how exactly did they stand up against 1860's level military tech plus slab knights?

>>82231453
I assume it's the name thing as the Durites, a local guerilla force except this one is in hard to traverse & often impassable swampland rather than fertile steppe.

>>82231453
Veveri and the Venitii are cousins, potentially they share the concept of autistic martial traditions and decided to get the forest speaking Veveri.
And carriage bombs. Only way to really knock down a slab-man.

>>82231530
>a local guerilla force
That's not really the question I'm asking here. What tech level is the Veveri at?

>Veveri and the Venitii are cousins, potentially they share the concept of autistic martial traditions and decided to get the forest speaking Veveri.
So light infantry and a shit ton of artillery?

>>82230302
I think it's ok to keep both of these sections somewhat vague, especially the Delvers. Hell, I'd be fine with the Delvers being mostly a footnote/small paragraph on the Durite section, wittha focus on how there is next to nothing known about them otehr than tthem living underground and being related to the monolith (Maybe take >>82229544's suggestion and expand on the geological characteristics, like caverns and such, to give more info on them indirectly). I think indirect descriptions like the ones made through narrative (Like the ones made by The Profesor here >>82165111)
Ghosts I'm less enthusiastic on keeping extremely vague, though I think they're mostly isolated phenomenos to be truly understood or well explained, as with the exception of Capri Bay, they are extremelly rar. But that's just my opinion.

>>82231540
>Veveri and the Venitii are cousins,
Aren't the Ververians supoposed to be related to the Surii? As in, they are the Surii who were able to come to some sort of "civilized" living and centralization (By Lapsarian Standards).

>>82231568
I think it's important to at least know what rules the ghosts operate under.
We could even have several contradictory lore options for a DM to choose from.

>>82231556
Fusileers, Grenadiers, Longbows and likely some serious marsh juju. The tech is definitely a ways behind Lapsarian but they were able to be constantly well supplied, unlike the old style armies of the Tsardom which, while numerically impressive started shitting ass in the swamps when the Veveri started blowing up their own bridges.

>>82231609
I feel like that hasn't been decided. And personally I don't like it. Suuri is just Northerner. While Veveria and the Venitii are explicitly people of the West. The land taken in the war would end up being majority Venitii.

What if the Ververians started out as a tribal alliance between the cousins of the Surii and the cousins of the Venitii.

>>82231626
i think the VErverian/Venitii connection would be a bit odd, consdiering the only main info we have on the ververians right now is taht they're stone worshippers, or at least something stone related. Venits on the other hand are fish cultists.

Though one thing doesn't have to expluce the other. Maybe they were ethnically Venit (Or related to the venit) but took after some Surii cultural influence to deal with the Tundra (Like their Worship). Maybe it's like >>82231653 says

>>82231540
>Veveri and the Venitii are cousins,
Did you just come up with this? Because I haven't seen this idea thrown around before.
Not saying that's a bad thing, it can be worked on, but you threw it out there like it's a fact, when there's nothing about this idea registered anywhere.

>>82231714
It does make a lot of sense, but I don't think it's been established.

>>82231619
Fair enough. I'm less set on the ghosts, so I'm up for whatever. I do like the idea of contradictory lore options though.

>>82231714
>>82231727
I saw it once before, I said it once before, but I don't check the doc that much and I can't keep track of these threads.
It just seems like such a no0brainer to me with how the map turned out and how the Veveria campaign took land that is completely Venitii.

>>82231757
I agree completely.

>>82231757
I've noticed this happen a few times as I'm a pure thread person. Someone will put something out in a thread, but it will get passed over by conversation and a few threads later it will be forgotten as a new idea for the [x] sprouts.

Which, is fine. A lot of this is in flux. Does kind of show whose actively on the Doc and whose in the thread tho. Also kind of a shame if you liked the first thing but it vanishes into the ether because you never commented on it.

>>82231757
>>82231727
I'm not sure abouth this idea.
geographically, them being near the Venitii isn't really a good argument since they have lager pieces of their territory connected to the Surii.
Their lands going to the venitii I think is more of an oversight due to people aka me beinmg stupid when I made the first culture map not considering the ververian conquests as a thing and then just rolling with what we had

I'd need to see how you would explain a couple of thing sbefore this idea becoming something that would fit well withing the lore, especially Ververia's connection with Stone, why the war took a turn for the worse, and what;s teh state of teh pieces of lore that have already been discussed (we can throw them out, but we can also incorporate them, etc)

>>82231729
We should definitely do contradictory lore for Jem-Kyugoryo. I'm thinking:
>they are ruled by an imperial god-king, who is said to be descended from a woman that grew out of a rice stalk
>no wait, actually the emperor is too young and they're ruled by an evil vizier that seeks to usurp the throne, the country is in the midst of a civil war
>no wait, actually there are no kings there, the country is run by a strange form of government called a "republic", where in each city state the local nobility votes on major issues; and they only have kings in times of emergencies
>no wait...
etc etc
There should be no authoritative information about Jem-Kyugoryo, just rumors. The Emissary cannot be trusted, because she serves her own political interests for the moment.

>>82231609
>>82231687
>>82231653

What if originally, talking a couple centuries before present, there were Venitii related people living in small villages along the rivers and swamplands of Ververia with the highlands being controlled by the Suuri.

Eventually firearms are introduced to the Ververian by the Venitii, and a Kamehameha like situation happened where an ambitious Ververian Venitii used firearms to unify the people of the swamp and rivers.
From there the new Ververian state moved against the Suuri in the highlands (as opposed to the well armed Venitii to the east) and integrated the more numerous Suuri into their state. In the aftermath of this conquest, the Suuri's stone related worship ended up becoming dominate over fish worship as the two cultures mixed, creating a part Suuri, part Venitii culture with a Suuri influenced religious system.
>>82231894
>>82230057
This gives a pretty good explanation for why the war turned for the worse.

>>82231933
This I think is a nice compromise

>>82231619
>>82231729
I actually have a fair amount of ideas for ghosts and their aptitudes. I've come up with this as part of the Spiritualism skill.

Specifically Ghosts refer to ethereal entitles that used to be mortal, and come in a number of categories and subcategories. The large categories are:
>Haunt
A Haunt refers to any number of phenomena of spirits that have lost all sense of Ego, instead appearing as a number of forms. These forms include Orbs, Funnel Spirits (vortexes that suck away heat), Ectoplasm & Ectomist, and more. They are defined by having neither Ego not Form.
>Residual
A Residual refers to the large number of spiritual phenomena that still retain a discernable shape and form, but not necessarily ego. These come in the form of classic Stone Tape Phantoms, Dark Room Impressions, Watchers, and more. They are defined by having Form but not Ego.
>Phantoms
A Phantom refers to spirits who have retained a personality and Ego, but has no defined form. These comes in many forms such as Banshees, Vessels, Wraiths, and more. They are defined by having Ego, but not form.
>Poltergeists
A Poltergeist refers to all spirits that still retain a semblance of Ego, either remember some portions of their mortal lives or acting upon stimuli experienced after death. These come in forms such as Poltergeists themselves, Daemons, Ancestrals, and more. They are defined by having both Form and Ego.

The other half of the spiritualism skill refers to all Ethereal entities that were not once mortal.

>>82231894
Fish and stone aren't necessarily in absolute conflict, though fish craves influence and stone trends towards ambivalent.
Perhaps many still consider the other estranged cousins. Weird perhaps, but worthy of some respect.

>>82231933
This I actually adore. I'm not really big on anything being just 'Suuri' because Suuri is as prescriptive as 'Oriental'. Having an actual unifying bond does however utilize that prescriptive as there's an external binding. Also neatly ties cultural influences together.
Also gives me something to work with for actual lore.

>>82231933
>In the aftermath of this conquest, the Suuri's stone related worship ended up becoming dominate over fish worship as the two cultures mixed, creating a part Suuri, part Venitii culture with a Suuri influenced religious system.
and a Venitii influenced military system. Thought I had included that part.

>>82232043
>Venitii influenced military system
One important detail is that venitii military outside of lapsarian influenece is mostly old fashioned Siege Weaponry (Like Ballistas and Scorpions). The Venit only began producing cannons (and very well) due to the Lapsarians after they were dominated by the Lapsarians, and definitely after they "split" from teh Ververians if we're following this timeline.
So the Ververi having a Venitii military system would in theory mean mostly barges/river-boats and siege weaponry.

>>82232079
Just because the Venitii are famous for their siege weapons doesn't mean that's all they've got going for them. Their whole culture trended towards a ranged tradition, which I imagine you get when you're tied to a boat. Definitely naval based, which as the war dragged on and the Veverians went full bridge-burning mode put them at more and more of an advantage as swamp boats are not the big heavy ships of the Lapsarians. The northern Clansman influence also likely plays a fair part, as they'd likely move towards a more complete martial tradition, even if they still emphasized ambushes and terrain supremacy.

>>82232079
>and siege weaponry
Traditional siege weaponry.
This could have also diverged from the venitii in a couple of ways, maybe by broadening from just siege weaponry to most stationary weapons. So when the Lapsarians came in, the VErverians had a military traditiion with some focus on things like traps and fortifications, which would reinforce the guerilla fighting and the vietnam ideas brought by >>82231540.

>>82231971
Bruh no offence but we're not trying to be ghost busters here. This is way too much, when the only ghosts in the setting are the Capri bay ones and possibly like, some general idea of dead people having souls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ANv1R3pKUw
>General Sovenkaili being ambushed by the Lipola Army, shortly after being cut-off by ambushes and surrounded.

>>82232158
Yeah, I think what's more important is describing the capabilities of the ghosts in and around a haunted fort that PCs might need to sneak into. Practical stuff.

>>82232158
I am trying to describe ghosts in a similar fashion to how the Victorians describes them. In Victorian occultism they incessantly categorized spirits.

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>>82232144
>>82232146
>>82232079
So, small boats affixed with high grade siege/stationary ranged weaponry? Like pic related, but with a scorpion/small cannon (I prefer something more traditional, but still) in place of the machine gun.
In general their combat doctrine would be very skirmish and guerilla based, using their knowledge of the swampy terrain and of navigation to bring small but highly armed groups to strike strategic locations, and disable as much of the enemie's infrastructure as they can. And whenever they abandon a position, they leave behind plenty of traps to slow down their enemy

>>82232235
if you want to describe what a spirit can do you need to know what kind of spirit it is

>>82232235
I think explaining too much of what a ghost does takes away some of the fear of the unknown, as you go into a situation knowing what to expect.
>>82232247
I would think that,,at least in lasparia, this would be somewhat subdued, if nothing else since the government tries to cover up the happenings in Capri Bay. So maybe something's been organized, but I'm not sure it'd be to this level of detail. + I find having less defined options makes it easier for player to feel uneasy abou what they're about to face

>>82232252
Correct. I'd personally add on artistic flintlocks, grenades and clubs on to the list of weapons. I'd also add Veveria has a very distinct warrior class formed by the conquerors, their soldiers both Venitii and Clannsmen and their descendants.
Those would probably be the most 'Vevarian' of the bunch, having a very distinct national identity, class, and fusion of the old regional cultures. In the north people would still be very clannish, and the marshfolk would also still almost live on boats. But there's a definite cultural affinity happening and the war only accelerated the process. Making Vevaria probably the most 'unified' region as of yet.

>>82232323
>Correct. I'd personally add on artistic flintlocks, grenades and clubs on to the list of weapons. I'd also add Veveria has a very distinct warrior class formed by the conquerors, their soldiers both Venitii and Clannsmen and their descendants.
>Those would probably be the most 'Vevarian' of the bunch, having a very distinct national identity, class, and fusion of the old regional cultures. In the north people would still be very clannish, and the marshfolk would also still almost live on boats. But there's a definite cultural affinity happening and the war only accelerated the process. Making Vevaria probably the most 'unified' region as of yet.
I love all of this

>>82232303
I don't really consider it something that should be entirely player facing, but it should exist and be GM facing so that they can categorize and know how to answer questions made by players when using the Spiritualism skill.

Also in the setting there are people extremely skilled and knowledgeable about spirits, including the Spirit Technician on the chart, those employed by the government specifically to deal with ghosts. The knowledge is there even if it is suppressed by the government.

Also some large categories of spirits will exist no matter what. Residual hauntings are a millennia old concept, even if more specific categories there in are not. Orbs & Black Room Spirits are as old as cameras. That sort of thing.

>>82232303
>I think explaining too much of what a ghost does takes away some of the fear of the unknown, as you go into a situation knowing what to expect.
Which is why I suggested contradictory lores.

>>82232395
I find in most cases contradictory lore only works when it is far away from the character in question, and they don't have the means to interact with/test/verify.

If a player has the chance to interact with, research, or verify something then at the very least the GM has to have definite answers and guidelines in order to feed the player in question answers. If the GM themselves only have incomplete or sporadic information it is the same as telling the GM to come up with it themselves, and telling them to do that produced a better result and far less frustration for the GM attempting to use a setting document.

This is not to say that you can't tell a GM to come up with their own lore and provide examples & avenues, but giving contradictory info is wore than no info.

>>82232323
>by the conquerors
You mean the Ververians who united the Swamps and conquered the northern Surii/Clansmen?
Anyways, I dig this idea of the culturally mixed group being the most distinct and prevalent. Reminds me a lot of countries in Spanish America, where after a couple of generations, the descendants of the colonizers and the indians began forming their own national identities and started pushing for inependence.

>I ask the Lapsarian what he is. "Lapsarian." He proclaims proudly.
>I ask the Kossoki what he is. "A rider!" He responds patting his scimitar.
>I ask the Bandree what he is. "Lapsari!" He says with a shout.
>I ask the Timajori what he is. "Hungry." He says and pats his belly.
>I ask the Venitii what he is. "A man of the river." He whispers behind his mask.
>I ask the Aemiid what he is. "Herder, sir." He bows politely.
>I ask the Yechod what he is. "Tired and hungry." He croaks.
>I ask the Hasyyiam what he is. "Well oiled." He husks.
>I ask the Masovii what he is. "A free man." He shakes his fist.
>I ask the Durite what he is. "Not yet lost." He spits.

> I ask the Freeskal what he is. "Oh, I'm Ned! Yourself?" He says patting his dugong.

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>>82232468
Based. The true heroes of the setting.

Wait, guys...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugong
>The dugong has been hunted for thousands of years for its meat and oil
THE SACRED OIL
THE SACRED OIL

>>82232438
>but giving contradictory info is wore than no info.
Then I vote for going for as little info as possible. And if any info is given, it should be portrayed as hearsay and specutaltion, to leave space for the GM to do as he pleases. If you overexplain the supernatural, it stops being something, well, supernatural. And like it or not, many players will end up reading on the lore, and having definite explanations/classifications can ruin the mystery of the thing.

>>82232498
The real sacred oil was in the friends we made along the way

>>82232468
>>I ask the Hasyyiam what he is. "Well oiled." He husks.
Kek

>>82232442
Yes, them. Although I figure they rolled over everyone in the process and started the unionizing in one or two generations. They probably utilized the clansmen who would fight for them as direct retinues.
As they moved out of pure swamps and into the forests and hills it was vital they get strong warriors to assist them, and likely there were immediate political alliances formed by marriges, with others coming as those groups interacted. A Veveri Marshman and a Clan Warrior meet in a noble's party, fight beside each other for years, eventually the Marshman's son and the Warrior's daughter get married.

>>82232522
I would prefer to give ideas and guidelines. Explain the concepts of spirits & elementals as Victorian occultists understood them, making alterations for Lapsarian culture as needed. Specifics on entities & spirits can be left to the GM.

The other problem is if a spirit need ever be interacted with statistically, as in a spirit must, for instance, be fought they need to be nailed down to specific statistics and abilities.

The problem is that in a game once mechanics interact with lore the lore must resolve down to number so as to interact with mechanics. I have played games that have left things ambiguous mechanically, and it is extremely frustrating when lore is at odds with mechanics in that way.

>>82232569
In this case by Clansmen do you mean the Surii or the Swamp Dwellers? Or Both (aka anyone that wan't of the conquering culture)?

>>82232594
Clannsmen are the northerners, Marshmen are the south. Closest to the Suuri and the Venitii respectively, but we should remember this is a distinct region.
Hence I'm trying to make a distinction. Clannsmen are highlanders, notherners, tundra folk. Southerners are the Marshfolk, the cousins of the Venitii. Those might be the local terms for the cultural divisions, perhaps?

>>82232621
I like that. Clansmen for highlands, Marshfolk for riverlands and swamps, Ververian for the conquerors. At least for talking in shorthand.

>>82232570
I understand where you're coming from; a game design perspective.
For the lore itself I mantain my point that things should be kept vague, but I understand how, when the lore is attached to a specific game, some mechanics need to be explained.
Even so, I still think you can provide these categories and the examples in a less boxed-in way. Whatever you put down in the document is what most people win interpret as the truth for the scenario, even if the truth is supposed to be more nuanced and blurry. So leaving things somewhat vague (not even completely vague, just ebough to elave room for interpretation) makes people, including DMs, aware that they don't need to restrain themselves to what's on the book.
AS for examples and statistics, I get the need for them being there, but I think the way they're presented is very important. They shouldn't be presented as what ghosts are, but as an example of what ghosts can be, if that's the way the GM decides to run his game.

>>82229544
>ghosts
definitely disagree on the needs expanding bit
>delvers
the best way of expanding them is by having them interact with someone - who is affected by them? how does that affecting llok like?
>Wendigo
A prehistoric hominid which has survived in the North

>>82229624
I think the Ververian campaign should be a white peace, hence why their strategies had to change.

>>82229903
personally, I think this is hella neat.

>>82232621
I'm also fond of these names. Clannsmen (Suuri Northeners) x Marshfolk (Venit cousins swampsdwellers) x Ververian (Mixed ethnicity dominant group)

>>82230648
It's definitely not that neat. for Lapsarians, it's Lapsarians >Others, who cares which is whcih > Durites. For Venits it's Lapsarians = Durites > Kossoki = timajor > others > Aemii > Durite >>>> Freeskalön.

It's not so simple

>>82232781
Objectively untrue. No one dislikes the Freeskals

>>82232793
>even the Tsarina finds the Freeskals oddly endearing, in an oafish sort of way

>>82232684
I agree with you up to a point. I still believe certain categories should be presented and expectation should be presented.

For my above example, explaining to a GM what a Residual Haunting is, and what people expect a Residual Haunting to do should be in the book, as well as classic categories of Residual Hauntings:
>Stone Tape
Repeats the same interaction over and over on loop
>Dark Room
Appears in photographs and seems to move in them
>Watchers
Figures you appear, often in windows, staring at passersby

Or stuff like what an Orb is or what Ectoplasm is or ideas of what a Poltergeist will accomplish. There should be definite things to lay baselines of expectations before giving further vagaries.

>>82230767
I know race stuff is fun, but there is really little indication that there would be much racial conflict down in the Lechte, unless deliberately stoked by the Masovii. The Freeskal are well integrated into the economy, the Kossoki are just a normal part of everyday Lapsarian life, and there are actually fewer Durites than elsewhere, making is much less of a problem. The Massovii guys there are, truth be told, probably profiting from the occupation, seeing as they'd be in undeveloped steppe to the East since Masovii's heartland is on the opposite side of the country.

I finished the introduction chapter explaining the basics of the 6PIP system and its resolution mechanics.

It contains a number of concepts, examples, and reference tables. With all that it's 16 pages, without the detailed examples, page breaks, and reference charts it's closer to 8 pages.

>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kV4IkD7O2qFX6C0YYZQ78SBqpcJv07uy72ow-Mcvt3g/edit?usp=sharing
This link is a commenter link so people can look through things.

Before I begin the full character creation chapter I am going to start designing a character sheet.

>>82232842
It's the poor Yechodi in Wolher that are the ones targeted by the race war.

>>82232839
Fair enough. I trust your judgment on this, especially since the examples of examples you gave seem interesting and in the ballpark of what I think is a good balance.
Though, a point less on her this infor is presented and more on the nature of the ghosts themselves: are we going for more traditional ghost shenanigans or this more akin to something like The Zone? Because from most conversations thus far, Capri Bay (out main point of ghost activity) is described more like something out of Roadside picnic then your average ghost story.

>>82231933
I'd add that they are probably a mix of Indian and Western aesthetic now, being influenced both by Suuri culture and Venitii/Lapsarian innovation over the last few centuries.

>>82232888
My idea that that there are both. Traditional spirits and ghosts are part of the world, or at least viewed as part of the world in much the same way the Victorians did.

However Spiritualism is a Mystic skill that can be used in rituals to manipulate, interact with, bind, interrogate, and even create spirits. My idea is that the impossibly complex ritual that was The Bargain was completed and warped Capri Bay in its entirety and made the Capri Bay Phantoms.

>>82230767
>>South
>Literal constant race war
Someone also suggested The Lechte is a mostly lawless place,where Lapsaria hasn't really been able to fully establish aproper governamental foothold, so it's a haven for scums and criminals. So that'd also be something nice for the southern soldier

>>82232924
I see. Seems like a good balance.
Any ideas on how (or if) to integrate these ghosts with the current religion on Lapsaria? ( Not sure how much of the discussion you accompanied, but there was a fairly thorough discussion about it and the result was placed in the docs)

>>82232927
Considering the regional capital, Oraroho, is both an island off the coast of The Lechte and majority Bandree & Lapsarian make it pretty separate from the mainland Lechte. My expectation is Orahoro is both large & prosperous, full of business, but off the island it is lawless and frontier.

>>82232915
Indian as in Chief Buffalo Balls over Heaven, or Indian as "SIR, DO NOT REDEEM THE COUPON SIR"

>>82232963
Ceremony is the religious Mysticism skill. Where ghosts and religion intersect will be in rituals that make use of both Ceremony & Spiritualism.

My idea in this case would be to define it mostly by describing rituals as belonging to certain faiths so as to sequester off different knowledge of interacting with spirits to different religious practices.

>>82232964
>>82232927
Ah yes,the Wild Wild East.

>>82232868
oh yea, being a Yechodi is liable to be no fun at all.

>>82232927
The problem is, the Lechte is seemingly taken over from Freeskalön, a Jasentorf-adjacent region. They probably had existing power structures where they were taken over, so a Lapsarian lack of control would simply mean the old governance would continue on a local level, rather than some sort of anarchy

>>82232984
Indian in the sense of Pacific North-West/Eskimo Indians, so Suuri (although of course there is a huge amount of cultural variation among Suuri)

>>82233006
Considering the Durite Steppe has heavy incentives to settle in, a spread out military presence, and hostile natives, it would essentially be the Wild West (East).

>>82232999
Oh, I mean less in the mechanical sense and more in the lore sense. The established religion has some sorts of funerary rites and concept of an afterlife, would ghosts be related to this process? (Like unproper body disposal leads to ghosts, etc)

>>82233037
Or at least, would ghosts be explained to be related to this concept? If it's the truth or not it's beyond what we need to explain

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216 KB JPG

It's tough being a Lapsarian.

>>82233024
Ah, gotcha

>>82233009
I think despite being mostly Freeskal in population, the Lechte is actually pretty sparsely populated. So being majoritarily Freeskal doesn't mean the freeskals are that much in control for anything (other than their manatee herds).
So while maybe the local institutions were enough in the past,the influx of Lapsarians/Kossokis, Durite Refugees, and other neighboring groups was too much for the local administration, which led not to full anarchy,but definitely many holes in the system

>>82233037
>>82233052
Oh very likely, often spirits are associated with improperly disposed of bodies and for those who died in particularly violent ways. It would vary from religion to religion of course, as would the beans of putting them to rest.

So I've tries my habd at a ververian a few times now and never got a satisfying fusion between Western and native elements. I wont have my tablet for the next few days so i wont be able to retry either. If anybody else qould like to give it a go, I'd appreciate it.

I’m happy to see at least a few people enjoyed my little narrative about monolith pilgrimage from an outsiders perspective.

As for the subject of the Delvers themselves I based my assumptions on how they’re presented on the compass and their closeness to stone and faith.

They are clearly creatures the live beneath the stone, typically places with high stone association like the Vastian wasteland and perhaps the most arid parts of the durite steppe.

Physically they have stone like skin and glowing glassy eyes but there’s a lot of variation that can be had with that. The insides of a delver are a complete mystery as any killed shatter to pieces and those pieces vanish as soon as no one is looking. It’s not even certain if they are even alive or eat despite being shaped like lizard like hominids.

One thing for certain is they like to sing the song of stone and try to lure those mesmerized by it to join them beneath the ground, to return “home”. Wither this is to be eaten or transformed, or some other nefarious end no one can be sure for those who follow never return their song into their tunnels rarely ever return.

reading more of this, it's neat, is it just a setting or is there like a 5e hack of something?

>>82233575
*Those who Follow their song into their tunnels rarely ever return* fixed, really garbled that last sentence. I need to get some sleep.

Captcha: 805pm

Great even the captcha is trying to suggest a bed time like I’m 8 years old.

>>82233604
It's going to be a setting and a homebrew system.

>>82233575
Good summary, and really all we need.

>>82233604
>5e hack
What the fuck dude, why do you think so badly of us? What did we ever do to you?
A homebrew system is collaberatively being constructed, read the OP

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>>82224863
>The Jatian Lime-Deer
>Horns of lime, hooves of Basalt
>Everyone wants a piece
>Only the Local Lord is allowed to hunt them
>Numbers are exploding thanks to a succession crisis

Just woke up.
I hated the idea of making Vervaria venitii and suuri, but than the idea got worked on and expanded I liked it.
Although I would drop the stone/fish mixing to differentiate from Lapsaria. Maybe the marshmen were never fish to begin with, prefering some sort of ancestor worship over their cousin's river faith.
And the clansmen, although once stone in a very distant past, had become way more animist/totem.
So when the religion mixed they became focuses on honouring the spirits of people, animal and maybe even objects.
Maybe that's why slavs were key to their faith, it's a mixture of ancestor, totem and nature.

>>82235352
Very nice.

>>82235360
I think the matter of Ververian religion is an important one, since all 0th level canon material we have on them is that the Slab Knights were somehow involved in the war. This implies the country had a large enough number of slabs, which in turn implies some degree of Monolith worship.
> Although I would drop the stone/fish mixing to differentiate from Lapsaria
While I agree, I do see how this could be expanded to be different from Lapsaria, as both the Stone and Fish aspects could be more exagerated, as we could (and should) present both the Monolith Itself and the Fish Gods as worship Material.

>>82235360
>>82235516
on the other hand, having similar religions in geographical proximity is actually kind of a good thing worldbuilding wise. It suggests a shared history

>>82235516
Just had an idea that the marshmen were like the Venitii, drowning people in the swamp.
Eventually all the bog mummies ended up causing them to become ancestor worshipper.
The stone of the northerners started by them making totem to honour the monolith or the land, but because of the vast distnace, they ended up forgetting the origin and started thinking it represented nature overall, because of the animals and trees motifs.
So they were fish and stone, but by the time they actually mixed, those origins had been basically lost to time.

>>82235516
>>82235360
I had an Idea. We could have the original Marshlanders be direct Fish worshipers, just like the Venitii, and the Clannsmen have a Monolith inspired faith focused on "worshiping totems and engravings of the monolith as a proxy", which would explain the Slab density, as slabs would be something directly worshiped.
The Ververians themselves though would have been in a big part not very religious (Or as anon sugested in the Docs (and here >>82235568), a more nature centered religion, which would somewhat tie into >>82235538's idea of simmilar religions), but the war ended up driving them to religious extremes like direct fish worship again due to renewed contact and dependency to the nation's rivers/swamplands. This would help provide another ulterior motive for Lapsaria trying to invade Ververia in the first place: To reestabilish Ververia's Fish cults as a dominant power.

>>82235538
People unfortunaly didn't like the idea that the Lapsarian native worship was related to suuri totemism, which is the origin of the clansmen faith, so this might be not work.
Marshfolk bog mummies ancerstor worship is still possible though.
>>82235601
I don't like that, so far every coastal faith has been indirect fish deities, even the Lapsarian faith was before the rewrite.
Let humans worship things that aren't the eldritch monsters.

>>82235601
>This would help provide another ulterior motive for Lapsaria trying to invade Ververia in the first place: To reestabilish Ververia's Fish cults as a dominant power.
I think this could work, though it would explicitly have to be something planned in secret between the Deacon and the Hooks, and how exactly this would work.

>>82235662
What I'm trying to say is that if every fishing village is Innsmouth, than it loses it's impact doesn't it?
People wouldn't go, these lads look strange and have a secret, and more like, of course they have gills, they live on the coast.

>>82235662
>so far every coastal faith has been indirect fish deities
Fair, though in this case, they're related to the Venit who are fish worshipers (and pretty fanatical ones at that). So them not having any direct fish god influence would be weird.

>>82235667
considering Capri bay and Monolith repression I think it is safe to say that through the tsarina, the order of ichthys, the secret police and likely a number of other avenues not named in the compass, the tools are there for the deacon to cause such a thing in secret.

>>82235702
Hence they being fish worshippers once, but changing.
The Venitii are less fish worshipers overall and way more radical Anutie devouts, so maybe because they were away from the Venit, the sacrifices stopped giving boons back. What did start appearing were the bog mummies however.
So their faith changed, some customs stayed, but others got dropped. maybe they even stopped wearing masks because the mutations stopped appearing as severely as before, meaning that many could have lost faith.
Or maybe they worship a giant enemy crab.

>>82235705
Replied to myself instead of you.

>>82235777
>Or maybe they worship a giant enemy crab.
The vervarian swamp crab is a type of crab that never stops growing, should a specimen be able to live long enough they can reach truly massive sizes.
Some of the shells of thiese giant crabs are craved out and turned into temples for the marshfolk faith, where they will deposited their mummified ancestors.
Some say that they can also tame and ride these crabs, even arming them with their ballistas, but this is certainly an exaggeration.

>>82235662
>so far every coastal faith has been indirect fish deities
Really? Other than the Venits and some Lapsarian fish cults (that aren't evel legal), I don't remember any other groups who are directly fish aligned.

>>82236252
Aleria and Sunset isles as well, or atleast the bit that anon wrote about Barbaros. And Lapsaria was King Fisher in a trenchcoat, but that has been corrected.
Also some of the suuri are fish aligned apparently, hard to know because l*pissarians can'tvthey the difference.

>>82236363
I haven't heard of any Suuri fish worship. Some are fish aligned on the compass, sure, but that doesn't mean fish worship. They hunt whales, consume oil occasionally, pay respects to the literal fish.

>>82236363
Oh yeah. I think the Barbaros bit has been toned down lot, and Aleria are right now unspecified Fish Worshipers.

>>82236571
>>82236663
Shit, I might be behind on some lore changes or have missread something.
I like the crabs and mummies though, maybe there is a way to still use them.

>>82237018
Oh definitely. I wasn't trying to discredit your ideas, just checking if there was anything I missed.
We can ditch the fish thing if we have a proper explanation for it and have a suitable aka crab idea. Normally i'd suggest combining these ideas, but to juggle Slabs, Mummies, Crabs and fish gods might be a bit much, so we need to develop these ideas a bit more to see which ones seem to fit best.

>>82237101
Well, the slabs have to stay somehow, they are to important for Vervaria lore to be cut, but they can be tied to clansmen religion.
So that leaves us 3 ideas for marshfolk: Crab animism, mummy ancestor worship and finally a fish cult.
If we do mix them up, I suggest mixing only two of the options and abandoning the other, so either old fish faith becoming more crab/mummy or crabs and mummies together.

New ideas could work too.

>>82238019
so straightforward monolith worship is ruled out?

>>82238012
i wonder what would be the maximum of religion and federalism.
Maybe the accord that formed the Gilded State? An old tablet describing how the Gilded Empire had religious freedom? A Scribe Magi from before it fell?

>>82238019
I do like the idea of bog mummy ancestor worship.
Ties in the local geography and has a feeling that's unique among the other religions of the setting

>>82238048
Well, those ideas are for the marshfolk, not the clansmen. Since Varvaria is too far away, they would need to do it through proxies, hennce the clansmen totemism or religious significancy to slabs.

>>82238052
I'm plucking stuff from a great wealth of suggestions from thread 6. Of those suggestions, I am tempted by The Knight of Steel. But I am also open for others.

>>82238048
I think straightforward monolith worship was ruled out fromthe biginning, since they don;t really have any ways to access the monolith. Though variants like worshiping totems and engravings of the monolith as a proxy are still on the table. The only important thing is tp somehow tie them in with the Venitii, if they're going to be related

>>82238012
>jasentorf, the child of jasensketch and suggestive-nippler
sasuga

>>82238084
got it. good stuff, sounds coherent
>>82238091
Well central to monolith worship is pilgrimages, so your access doesn't have to be straight forward. Perelous journeys add to the prostration. But I get your point.

>>82238019
Frankly, I'm more fore Fish + Crab than mummy ancestor worship. I think it is important to tie them in with the Venitii in this cultural aspect, even if the fish stuff is more subdued nowadays

>>82238124
Lungfish mummies. Those weirdos are the closest ancestors to the lobed fished which resulted in us, have a ludicrously bloated genome and go into torpor by spinning a leathery mucus sack and pickling their flesh in piss. Princes got sarcophagi but slaves were immured in mud, ironically it's the latter who are sometimes washed out by flooding and revived, emaciated, to splutter in confusion before dying.

>>82235352
>>82238012
These are great! Good job

>>82233604
For now it's just the WIP setting, though there is a system being worked on. But both the system and the setting aren't really that related to each other, so you can run lots of different systems in this setting (people suggested CoC, Blades in the Dark, generic systems like Gurps, etc) as well as using the system being developed for pretty much any setting

>>82238108
Well, if this was more of a new wave of the religion after the world was more civilized the pilgramage could still work, but since this is probably a more native faith that evolved from a common ground, we have to take on account that.
Islam can have it's pilgramage to mecca because it was the middle ages and the muslims were empire building.
But what if it was barely the bronze ages, and a tribesmen had to journey all the all from bretony to arabia, without a map and with a bunch of people that don't speak your language or even share your faith on the way? Very few would ever get there, and even less would make their way back, so at some point the local faith would either change or be replaced by another belief.

>>82238012
Any thoughts on the final religious federalist?

>>82238570
This is what I will put if there are no alternative proposals:

>The Knight of Steel
>Followed the Terror of Gaufenburg all the way over the Venit
>Desperate to fix his mistakes
>Pain must redeem, or it is senseless
>Probably doomed

>>82238595
(this is from thread 6, not my creation.

>>82238595
A paladin on a quest is always cool.

>>82238610
I do like it, although we'll need to do that renegade slab knight at some point.

It's a cool map, what's it from?

>>82238715
what do you mean?

>>82238715
It's from the Leviathan world building and homebrewing threads on /tg/, you should consider checking them out.

>>82215096
what is the name of the river that seperates Lapsaria from Masovii`?

>>82238715
It's from the collaborative worldbuilding project we've been working on for a few threads, check out the doc if you want more details.
>>82239129
it's the mouth of the Nemijski I believe

>>82239147
only a negligable part of that border river could be said to be part of the Nemijski

>>82239174
oh you mean the one between durite territory and Masovii

>>82239174
>>82239129
I don't think it has a name yet so if you have a good one

>>82239227
>Implying that Durita isn't rightful Lapsarian clay.
Truly there are no lows that a kossoki won't fall to.

>>82239227
durite territory, aka Lapsarian property like any other plot of land in grand Lapsaria.

I mean we can call it the Verga

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okay, before I start on the Suuri hunters, I want some opinions

Do I draw them in their painted war armour, or try to track down some historical reference for what a Tlingit hunter would have worn?

>>82239571
Historical reference so long as it's not too arduous. Better to keep the war armour's mystique by making it only fit to be seen in battle.

>>82239571
Unarmored please, making them armored at all times can make the culture seem a bit one note.
You can always add a bit of eskimo or even siberian tribes if you can't find anything on tlingit.

>>82239571
I think you should do them without armour, we have a lot of armoured bois.
Here is a strong opinion I have: You shouldn't just look at a Tlingit hunter and then draw that. Just as the warriors aren't carbon copies of Pacific Northwest indians - for example they are dressed much warmer with fur, use different colours, helmet shapes and swords - you should make em your own.

A less strong opinion: You should use the one un-helmeted Suuri on the compass at least as part of your inspiration.

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>>82239595
>>82239594
Ok that might actually make things super easy, turns out they mostly just wore cedar fibre loincloths when our harpooning

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>>82239640
and like these kinda nifty semi conical hats

>>82239640
probably not feasable for the cold of the Suuri tundra

>>82239640
>>82239654
Fucking hell, how much of a fucking chad do you have to be to fish half-naked on Alaska?

Has anyone had the chance to read through the basic ruleset for 6PIP?

>>82239654
That hat with Inuit furs and whatever the hell the Suomi wore should be a good start.

>>82239667
>>82239669
honestly yeah I was kinda surprised too, they usually wear loads of furs, but on the ocean I think the idea was it would just weigh you down if you fell in

>>82239679
The suomi and fins are more for the aemii, they are related to suuri but not too much.
Eskimos or one of these lads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostyak
Both of them also suffer the "all these indians are the same people" curse and live in tundras.

>>82239706
that is good reasoning. Makes sense if the Suuri also do it.

>>82239728
the suuri are such a gigantic range of cultures, there are bound to be finish ones

>>82239771
Yeah, there are already finish suuri, they are called Aemii and have been integrated into Lapsaria because they lived south enough to be conquered.
They just never got that label because by the time one anthropologist half-assed his job they were already part of the empire.

>>82239706
Maybe one of them can have a cloak?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilkat_weaving

>>82239828
seems like those were mostly for ceremonies or celebrations, so it could be like a rite of passage for aspiring chiefs to hunt a white narwhal

>>82239806
you're gonna rue your cattiness yet

>>82239857
they really don't have to follow the customs of the Tlingit, anon. They are made up.

>>82239893
I mean yeah, but I do wanna have a little bit of respect for the cultures I'm cribbing from

>>82239893
What this anon said, the armor was suggested because it looked cool, having one of them have a cloak because it looks cool fits too.
>>82239881
it will reach a breaking point and I will suddenly animorph into an orange cat.

>>82239921
the armour was being used in the same context though, why put a ceremonial cloak on a random hunter?

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>>82239921
rue it!

>>82239907
Well, the ancestral hero uses a sword made from a narwhal horn right?
And each one gets the sword from it's predecessor?
So maybe to have a new line of ancestral hero, the aspirant has to go and hunt the narwhal with whatever followers they get.

>>82239946
I like that, we'll go with that I think

>>82239942
coz it looks good and seems useful enough. But of course, it is perfectly valid that you want to use stuff in the same context as the cultures do. Not sure if I would agree that that is a significant increase in respect paid, but you have complete control over it and nobody will be angry if you do it your way

>>82239944
Dark Souls 4: Leviathan Edition
I like his look.

>>82239944
Very nice.
Masovii is my next suggested compass.

>>82239952
>>82239946
this will still leave us with no normal everyday Suuri image

>>82239966
right now it looks more like a Suuri one. If you want Masovii wojaks, you gotta contribute, if not art (preferable) then at least with prompts, or even better, with doing the compass-work.

>>82239978
I think only one of them will have the cloak I think, the other two with the hat, loincloth or fur, whatever kossoki anon decides.
I suggest the one getting ripped to be the half naked, just to mahe it easier

>>82239978
well I was thinking the big guy with his leg off would be the aspirant hero, and the other two would be his followers, so I'll have them in more average hunter garb.

That said three people in a canoe hunting a narwhal weren't likely to have normal everyday clothes anyway

>>82239996
if you're doing three dudes, that's more than enough to complete the ethnogram.
Side note, does every tribe have a hero? And if so, it must be extremely scary to have lost your sword, the tribe must feel completely unprotected.

>>82239978
>with doing the compass-work
You mean compiling everything onto the compass itself?
If that's the case I can do that for whatever compass we decide to go for next. I was quite interested in the Suset Isles one, with the Fire x Flame, and Prosperity x Nature axii

>>82240016
my dude, if you do the compass I'll suck your dick. Or, second best thing, I'll draw a bunch of your concepts.
I fucking hate doing compass work.

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Ok, I am making the character sheet. First thing is the wound indicator. Just like everything else in 6PIP the body is divided into 6 regions that can be injured.

>>82239995
>>82239996
also for the half naked guys, do I just go wojak white skin or are the Suuri gonna have darker skin tones like the northern native americans, or a lighter mix like the Sami?

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>>82240046
On the actual sheet it will be smaller and off to one side.

>>82240046
Look at this frickin JAWLINE

>>82240067
I've done Suuri with Wojak skin and white eyes.

>>82240092
my man could smash slabs with a jaw like that

>>82240067
The wojaks on the compass have white skin and a white orb in their eyes.
Also brown hair and an asian mustache.
But they are diverse, so do whatever you think looks best.

>>82240092
It has some suitor energy.
Cheap romance novel about a female phrenologist trying to integrate a suuri native when?

>>82239944
by the way, my head canon is that knights of steel are knights which have give n up their fief and aligience to their lord in order to pursue some other goal or to prostrate themselves. Instead of their lord's (and their own) shield, they only have empty steel on their lapel

>>82240012
Well, the suuri are diverse, so maybe some tribes don't have ancestral heroes.
But the cultures that do have, I think having one per tribe is what is expected.
Your tribe having a second ancestral hero, or having a sword taken from another tribe as a spoil must be seem as a major honour.
>>82240189
Questing knights? That's cool.