>>84573052
"No!"

>>84573052
> Without just deleting everything and creating something totally new of course, we assume that what's already there is there.

I don't think so, no. What is already there is too inherently contradictory and devoid of any pattern to it, there is not a ruleset you can infer to build a magic system out of. You can keep some of it, but you are inevitably going to to run into something from the books you will have to ignore to make something workable.

You best bet is to draw inspiration from it in broad strokes but come up with your own magic system that merely resembles it but has its own logic to it, like Little Witch Academia.

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Unfortunately the short answer is no.
The long answer is that you could do it by bending over backwards to create consistency where there was none and forge an underlying theory or magic in the HP world, but that would actually be harder than just making a new magic system for which you create underlying magical theory to enhance your game.
Why bend over backwards to fix something that is clearly broken when your time is better spent using the inspiration to build something new.

There is a fanfiction that tried to do that: Harry Potter and the Method of Rationality.
It's very good.

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>>84573052
Unironically anime is really good at this. You don't even need to go to isekai where everything works by video game logic, even your generic battle shonen like Naruto often explain really well how their special magical power bullshit system works. It also usually right off the bat establishes a very clear system of power hierarchy, with the pirate-hokage-spirit-wizard-symbol-of-kings right at the top.

It usually gives you a pretty decent impression of what characters can and can't do what, and who can beat the shit out of who. Of course it's not 100% guaranteed, especially if certain characters ride the author's cock into battle, but it's something.

What exactly are the problems you think there are with Harry Potter magic system? I can see a few potential angles, but I don't know which one you'd want to address.

OP, listen to me on this one. Just get Strixhaven: Curriculum of Chaos it was literally made for people like you.

>>84573412
The big problem is that literally no part of the magic system is explained. we are told certain hyper-specific rules that exist as plot points, but they are in a vacuum disconnected from any kind of systemic logic.

Where does magic come from/what is it that wizards are actually doing? We don't know.

Why does speaking bad latin and waggling your wand in a very particular way produce a specific spell effect? We don't know.

What defines what magic can and cannot do, or how do you make a new spell? We don't know.

Without this sort of information, its nigh impossible to extrapolate how a magic system should function, because its just arbitrary. You can just make up whatever and its just as valid as anything else. If you decide to establish that an especially angry 15 year old can cast the unstoppable killing curse, but literally no wizard no matter how powerful can ever use magic to prevent bits of egg shell from getting in your scrambled eggs when you make breakfast, I guess thats a rule now.

Even the things that seem like they have thought put into them don't. Like, what is a charm? Charms class is a thing, lots of spells are referred to as 'charms', but what actually is a charm in this context? What makes it a charm? We are never told.

And what rules we are given are unintuitive and contradictory. As a wizard, i can speak two works and instantly transform another human into a ferret. But if I want to change into a human that looks a bit different from me, I need to spend 30 days making a very expensive and easy to fuck up potion and the effect only lasts an hour. The degree of the transformation and the investment of effort to pull it off are completely out of whack. And just like everything else, there is no explanation why.

There is fucking nothing HERE. Nothing we can work with.

>>84573052
Harry Potter magic system
>there are a gorrillion spells
>you either know them or you don't
>to cast one, you need to know it and have a decent wand
That's it. There is no complexity.

>>84573567
The point of the thread is managing to find a set of rules that makes the whole system coherent, or at least, more coherent that it is in the books, not just spell out what the system already is.

No, due to several reasons: inconsistency in application, hidden and unknown situations like wand type or heritage mattering, and lack of any kind of limit on spells that can be cast.

The setting of Harry Potter does not hold up to even cursory scrutiny, and this has been a major problem with all fan works that try to do something with the setting. Unlike the modern setting-that-was-created-to-tell-more-than-one-story, Harry Potter's setting exists only to tell the story of Harry Potter. I haven't watched them, but I've heard that the new films in the setting are really really fucking stupid.

A tabletop games version (in D&D terms) of Rowling's magic "system" would work as follows:
- Most spells have Verbal, Somatic, and Focus components. Somatic = waving your hands or wand, Verbal = saying the correct Latin phrase, Focus = the wand.
- Some spells have a material cost (powder, etc)
- Brewing potions requires specific materials
- Some spells can be cast in silence or without a wand but these are rare and still require the Verbal component
- Most spells can be cast in 1 round
- Some spells require concentration, but most do not
- There is no limit to the spells one can learn
- There is no limit to the number of spells one can cast

>>84573367
>the worst kind of I AM VERY SMART wankfic
>good
lmao try again retard

>>84573618
Please believe me when i say that you are better off making your own magic system that just looks the same but has its own logic and rules to it than you are using HPs magic. Especially if you want to run a game with it.

Your average party of dnd players will absolutely break the setting and become bigger threats than Voldemort ever was inside of a week, and all they have to do to pull it off is not be idiots. Wizards in Harry potter are notoriously fucking stupid and poorly informed. Even a basic amount of using lateral thinking, muggle technology and a little bit of magic is going to run rings around the whole setting.

>>84573673
>Wizards in Harry potter are notoriously fucking stupid and poorly informed. Even a basic amount of using lateral thinking, muggle technology and a little bit of magic is going to run rings around the whole setting.
I don't read garbage so can you please explain this with some examples?

>>84573052
For what possible benefit?

>>84573052
I don't think Harry Potter is crunchable as-is, it's too scattershot with too little extension of previous showings. Nothing's deliberately connected to anything else, and effects are pretty much all black-box "it seemed cool" or "the plot wills it".

"We assume that what's already there is there" is only operable as the start of the spells, because there's just not much to work with for any underlying "rules". Of course, in a game we don't need the *exact* in-universe rules...

The points that come to mind would be general skills for enunciation and fine wand manipulation, then skill in a particular spell. Some spells, *most obviously* Patronus and Avada Kadavra, relate to emotional state and ties, so something like Exalted's Intimacies could be involved.

>>84573567
It's kind of like kung-fu. The only thing you really need to do kung-fu is to be taught the proper forms and moves, then practice them. It's just that in this world all the most basic and useful kung-fu has been codified and taught to every member of the kung-fu population in a giant dojo. You can learn more techniques for specialized work beyond that, but everybody gets the basics.

I think there's more to it that that, though. I might be going off on a limb here, but magic seems to respond more to what the user wants. Especially when wizards are kids and so can send wild magic effects out without any control, like when Harry teleports on top of his school to get away from bullies or blows that massive bitch up like a balloon to get her out of his house. I think this sort of compatibility holds true as a wizard grows and their magic starts becoming more structured. Gildory Lockheart's a professional con man, and he's pretty worthless with all spells we see him cast save the ones that modify peoples memory. Harry's best at the magic that lets him fly around and be free. Hermione's desire is simply to be really good at magic, so she has good compatibility with any kind of spell.

This is even codified with the unforgivable spells, where it's explicitly stated that you really have to mean them or they don't work nearly as well. To kill someone with the death curse you have to summon up enough contempt to hate them to death, and if you're the sort of person who does that your magic will respond to your wish and knock them dead with no muss and no fuss, save the black mark that kind of hatred leaves in your soul.

>>84573704
literally every mage has the capacity of entering every single Muggle building undetected and leave no trace.
Imagine the damage he could do.

>>84573724
I find it to be an interesting challenge.

>>84573704
Not him, but Snape's protection for the philosopher's stone is literally a basic logic puzzle that Hermione points out is unsolvable for your average wizard because their reasoning skills are impaired from a lifetime of easy access to magic solutions.

>>84573789
Adding to this, the only school of magic Hermione is shown to be bad at is the one she refuses to believe in.

>>84573837
Not just that, but we know the Hogwarts curriculum from ages 11-18, and you know what it doesn't include? Literature, history, world politics or math. A Hogwarts graduate knows how to cast spells, but not how to do multiplication, has a 3rd grade reading level, and doesn't know there was a world war 2.

They are actual fucking idiots.

>>84573052
they are children's books, there doesn't need to be a "magic system"

the problem only arose when the series was so goddam profitable that they just HAD to spin it in to a greater setting and not just a series. Then the fact that the world-building is all shit actually matters

>>84574140
There's a history of magic class, but it's literally a blow off class everyone sleeps through because the professor is a ghost and doesn't notice.

I have to imagine most wizards knowledge of their own history is stuff that their parents heard from their parents. You can seek it out if you want to, god knows there are plenty of sources, but it's something you seek out on your own. I do not think it's tested in the wizard SATs.

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>>84574417
>they are children's books
Don't be a retard, of course they're not children's books. If they were, then why would so many millenial women in their 30s reference them on Twitter?

>>84574513
I know you're joking/shitposting, but it's because they read them as children... and then watched the movies as teens... and they were so fucking profitable that they keep getting pushed and culture can't fucking move on from them

>>84574513
Because responsible parents should know what influences they expose their children to?

>>84573052
Kids on Brooms system exists.

>>84573052
Providing coherent underlying rules wouldn't improve JKR's magic system. She was trying to make whimsical books for children, not lay the groundwork of a TTPRG. Why is this in /tg/?

>>84573052
>Rowling's magic system
But there is literally none. It's just "whatever the plot demands for given moment".

>>84573389
>even your generic battle shonen like Naruto often explain really well how their special magical power bullshit system works
Naruto's fucking wild because you could feel how the fuckers "Scientifically" came up with jutsu like they were playing magic chemistry.

>>84574679
Because anon is one of those children, now in his early 30s, and still overthinking a book he read in his early teens.

>>84574793
>how the fuckers "Scientifically" came up with jutsu like they were playing magic chemistry.
Can you explain this?

>>84573367
Anything ever written by Yudkowsky is garbage tier. The man has no qualifications ("I write about it on a shitty snubby blog" isn't a qualification) in any fields he purports to be expert on. HPMoR is the 'Atlas Shrugged' of fan fiction world.

>>84574566
To play devil's advocate:
Ministry of Education in my country recommended the first HP book as an obligatory read for 5th grade (that's age 11 up here) between 2001 and 2012. And the reason why they've dropped it from the list was that it was no longer "hip" enough - each decade they put there the currently "big" thing with kids, precisely to capitalize on the fact kids will read it on their own due to sheer pop-culture familiarity.

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>>84574807
Oh boy, time to Sakura
So the first thing we learn about ninjas is that they use chakra. And they mold chakra (often using the ninja hand signs) into ninjutsu or genjutsu. They can also manipulate their own raw chakra to create physical effects like enhancing their muscular speed and strength, sticking to walls, that kind of stuff.
Chakra is made of physical energy and mental energy (which is more "willpower" than smarts) so you won't find any gainlet young wizards. Even Sakura had to work out enough to have chakra.
You further learn that, although difficult, you can just convert your raw chakra into unrestrained elemental energy (Naruto's rasenshuriken), and it's especially easy if you have an affinity to it (think chakra blood type basically).
From there you get studies where they learned ninjutsu magic from beings like toads and snakes. They have ritual casting, then somatic casting where the buddhist hand signs now allow for greater, more varied effects.
But all of it is formula. Once early on, Kakashi made one hand sign and Sasuke immediately went "That's going to be a fire jutsu" It wasn't
Then you have kekkei genkai's which are basically magic things in your bloodline. This is Sasuke's sharingan and stuff like that. The mythology behind that is a huge chunk of the story no one wants to get into.

>>84574679
because people are autistic and think tolkien should've given gandalf a stat block and spell list

>>84574417
>>84574513
>>84574556
>>84574679
>>84574794
honestly with these posts the thread should be over, but this is 4chan (tg especially) where people can't help but rehash the same ideas and say the same things over and over again, even in a single thread

Start with what we know, I guess.

>Magic is at least partially genetic.
>Magic requires a focus, like a wand, to function, but powerful or talented wizards can do without
>Verbalization and physical movement are necessary to cast spells, but spells seem to exist as more of an intention than a formal, computer code-like operation. Early on in the series we see students repeating magic phrases with little effect.
>Emotional states and desires form the core of what could be called the “system.” It simply is not possible to cast spells if you aren’t in the right mindset to do so.
>This also explains why certain spells, like the killing curse, are considered evil: you can’t just wave a wand and kill or brutally torture someone. You have to really, really want to cast those spells for them to work.

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>>84574807
Not the anon and I didn't watch too much of it, but they seem to be basing the elemental effects on wu xing - Chinese five elements. In original these five elements were basically early attempt at codifying the bulding blocks of the natural world and their interactions. Sou you get the pentagramic diagram, but its more of a directional graph, where the direction of reading lines can change their meanings. For exaple, we have wood - metal interactions of cutting plants and of metal tools wearing down, or water - metal interactions of vapour condensation and rusting. It works like the magical chemistry, because it's based at ancient attempt at chemistry.

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>>84573052

Taking a crack at it off the top of my head,

For conventional spell casting (not potions, prophecies or other edge case mystical arts) Wizards and Witches (Wizards only hereafter) clearly have 3 primary power ratings. Wand, Soul and Form.

Wand is simple. It's the basic material power of the tool.
Soul is the intrinsic power of the Wizard themselves and is influenced by the experiences, emotions and disposition of the wizard in question.
Form is the basic act of spellcasting - the 'swich and flick' or magical words required.

Rowling leans in to the idea of magic being mystical, not Rigorous, that is that the internal laws can be contradictory but the system still functions for reasons unknown. We can work with that. I frankly find too many magical systems are made Rigorous for the sake of gameplay mechanics in and of themselves.

So the core of the system I think would be sets of die that are symbolic and not numeric. The die you have correspond to your Soul. So for instance "Bright" die have Suns, Lions and Swords on them while "Dark" die only have Skulls and Swords on them - Bright and Dark souls outline the dichotomy Rowling illustrates between say Godrick Gryffondor and Salazar Slytherin - both are fundamentally offensive powers, but one is more narrow.

Your wand is a multiplier, so a better wand improves the number of symbols the die from your soul generate. Simple, easy, fits with the established lore. Can have knock-on effects, like Hagrid's Wonky Wand adding a kicker on some condition.

Then your Form is how you apply the symbols. They are "the spells." So say, Adava Kedavra requires 20 skulls - wow that'll be hard for most people to pull out of their ass! But Expelliarmus requires just 5 Swords.

So Harry rolls his Bright die, being a young but powerful wizard, and consistently pulls out enough Swords to cast Expelliarmus and stunlock his opponent. Voldemort on otherhand uses his epic level soul to shit out Skulls with his massive wand bonus.

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>>84574980
The desire/outcome schematic is similar to gnostic traditions and modern chaos magic. The verbalization of shit Latin is kind of like a sigil, something that bypasses conscious thought and implants a desire for a certain outcome into the subconscious.

In HP, we know that talented wizards can make their own charms, spells, and curses. It may be they create sigils of some sort to help focus their desires before it “emanates” as a spell.

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>>84575009
>>84574952
Also true, but slightly modified to a more "western" set of elements.

>>84575063

To flesh it out a bit more since I'm on a mental roll, Form would be increased by conventional experience points - learn more stuff, get more spells. Soul would level up and develop based on a characters interactions, moral choices and key events.

For example, if your character met someone and fell tenderly in love, this might give you an additional Bright die, but also a Guardian die, allowing you to access new Forms of spells - such as the Patronus.

I'd suppose all Wizards have to count in some aspect as having at least "1" of all types of die. At least so it makes sense that even a wretched cretin who's largely ignorant of love and therefor has no Guardian die would still have a slim chance of casting a Patronus.

This would really reinforce a common theme of Rowling's adventuring parties - they're lopsided and uneven because people are naturally specialized and generally not very well rounded. Considering how many effects in the Harry Potter universe are save-or-die style situations, like the Dementors and Patronus, there could be some really interesting interplay there where the party has to rely on a romantic, soft-hearted fool to protect their otherwise "heavy hitters" against spooky cloak demons.

You'd probably need an additional skill for magic items and artifice. It's hard to say there because Harry and his pals aren't ever really much for tinkering and gubbins work so we never get a narrative focus on how magical gadgets and vital tools are made. The closest we get are the Weasley Twins - which if we operate off of them, I'd surmise it's just a different avenue of magic wielding that could still key off of this Soul mechanic I came up with.

Fred Weasley say, wants to make a Vile Tasting Toffee - so he needs, fuck it, Prankster die? That makes sense.

I suppose the hard part because really boiling down everyone in to their major archetypes and figuring out the appropriate spiritual dispositions for dice that capture the most flavor.

>>84573338
This. Rules are never explained in the series (outside of stuff like you can't make food appear out of thin air), so you are better just making something completely new and just applying a few of the spells from Harry Potter to it.

You know also, as I watch the British slowly suck the life out of their great intellectual properties (Sherlock Holmes with Sherlock, later seasons of Dr. Who, Harry Potter with the current fantastic beast films) I gotta wonder what's going on over there. (James Bond has gone through this like three times, but he keeps bouncing back).

I know the brits love showing off their culture and pretending they are still relevant on the global scale, and more power to them, I would just figure they'd be a lot more careful with the cultural institutions they still have.

>>84575166
It might be easier to use a stat representing those things instead of individual die. Maybe a roll under?

So Ron has, say, Soul 3 and Form 1. His heart's in the right place but he sucks all kinds of shit trying to actually cast spells. Combining these two, we get 4, which is the maximum difficulty spell he can cast. After that you could actually get into the casting, which, as you say, would depend on skills and specializations.

>>84575167
Angry brown people won't destroy Britain, man. British (and Western) culture is still going strong.

>>84575209
Well, what I'm most interested in trying to capture with the dice is that Rowling portrays magic as wildly unreliable even for experienced veterans (uh, Fantastic Beasts films aside where Wizards just sort of shit miracles and breathe realities. That's a whole can of worms.)

By taking absolute control out of the player's hands, they may not always get to tackle each problem the way they want to. You rolled, you applied your wand bonus, and... you're too short to cast Adava Kedavra on the bad man, but you can cast a shield charm, or summon a chest of drawers in front of you.

That's without beginning to explore the "adult" and "high level" magic Rowling occasionally nods at before moving on swiftly and hoping you forget to analyze it.

>>84575064
Even potions could work under that, where the ingredients only matter because that's what they're taught works and the ritual of throwing them together is what actually creates the potion. For the first guy that made a Polyjuice potion the ingredients other than a persons hair probably had some kind of special symbolic meaning to them that caused it to work, only to later have their recipe codified as the Polyjuice potion recipe.

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>>84575063
>>84575166

I like the ideas of these dice. I can imagine the magic system revolving around four dice:
>Bright die : 2 "Sun" faces, 2 "Lion" faces, 2 "Sword" faces
>Guardian die: 4 "Shield" faces, 2 "Sun" faces
>Sneaky die: 3 "Smiley" faces, 3 "Brain" faces
>Dark die: 3 "Sword" faces, 3 "Skull" faces

As a wizard, you have a pool of dies that represent your abilities and specialization. A Dark Wizard would have a fuckton of Dark dice while some like Harry would have a balanced set of Bright and Guardian dice, with maybe one or two Dark dice. When you want to cast a spell, you roll your dice and you see what you get, each spell requiring a set number of faces to work, like 2 Suns and 1 Sword, or 3 Skulls, 3 Swords and 1 Lion.

Sun faces are mostly used for positive spells, like healing, interacting with plants and stuff. Lion are for brute force spells and charms as well as interacting with beasts. Swords are faces that are used for offensive spells, charms and Hexes. Brain are mostly for spells that deal with the mind, illusions and false memory charms. Smiley faces are used for Jinxes, prank spells, etc. Shields are for defensive spells, Protego, and the likes. And of course, Skulls are required for Dark magic.

Something like Patronus would be a mix of Lion, Sun and Shield. Ventriliquo (that cause the caster's voice to issue from another location) would be Smileys or Smileys + Brains, Sectusempra would be Swords + Skulls, etc.
You'd have perks to customize your wizard a bit more, like making a full battle mage who can convert some Suns into Swords, a Legillimens master who can chose one of his Brain faces and making it a Brainx2, etc.

Yeah, I dig it.

>>84575167
The problem is that they actually believe that they're making them better.

>>84573558
How the fuck does the series take place in a MAGIC SCHOOL and we never even learn the fucking rules about magic? Completely idiotic.

>>84575402
1: Rowling is a terrible worldbuilder & storyteller
2: It doesn't fucking matter, the story isn't about the magic. It's a basic coming of age/chosen one story. Explaining the magic system wouldn't make the series better, only longer.

>>84575402
Not just that, but how much magic do you think Harry actually knows by the end of the series? He rides a broom pretty good, but for someone that has been studying magic for most of a decade he sure only seems to ever cast like 4 spells.

What are they teaching at this school?

>>84575443
To be fair, I buy in to the "we trained him wrong on purpose" theory of Harry Potter. As Voldemort's last horcrux and possible possession puppet, it was a reasonable decision by his mentors to let him be a meatheaded jock who's most offensive spell is the equivalent of Bobby Hill shouting "that's my purse!" and going for a nutshot.

>>84573052
I think you could build something worthwhile with the genesys system.

>>84575465
How many spells do you really need? Harry gets by in the situations he finds himself in with the core curriculum of a basic magic school, not a military academy.

>>84575433
Maybe long, drawn-out chapters just on magical rules wouldn't improve it, but consistency in rules improves any story.

>>84575533
Why do you think that?

>>84573367
>Liking Yudkowski

the man got scared by a creepypasta about a future robot thinking about hurting him

>>84575375
I don't now, most brits I know are shaking their heads at how their major series are turning out. I have family in Scotland, and last time we spoke they weren't fans of how they are handling stuff like Harry Potter. Actually one of my cousins works in costume design and knows some people working on the Amazon Lord of the Rings show, and thinks it's going to be terrible (though because it's supposed to be edgier and taking plave before the books, rather than because they have a black dwarf or anything in it).

>>84575651
>Actually one of my cousins works in costume design and knows some people working on the Amazon Lord of the Rings show, and thinks it's going to be terrible

Of fucking curse its going to be terrible. They aren't even basing it on the Silmarillion, the don't have the rights. They are basing it on a few paragraph in the appendix of the Lord of the Ring. It's basically going to be a completely original serie with some very vague concepts or names stolen from LotR. When it was the last time that a modern screenwriter created an original fantasy story without it being shit?

>>84574952
The problem Naruto ended up happening though, was it depicted itself as having a hard magic system with rules that can't be bent. But then the author couldn't figure out how to get fights to work within the rules that he had laid out, so instead they got tossed out the window. Now to Naruto's credit, they don't flat out break the rules, instead they just add a bajillion abilities that exist outside the rules and only focus on those characters fighting. Which leaves a character like Sakura who is meant to be weak but knows the rules well with nowhere to go, because she's not granted arbitary powers by the plot like Sasuke and Naruto are.

There's also the MHA/Jojo/One Peice route where each character only gets one ability, but that ability can be practically anything, and any application of that ability is allowed so long as it's staying within that purview. Which has the advantage meaning flights are rather flexible, while power sets remain relatively fixed, instead fights largely become a battle of wits to figure out how to best apply your singular skill against a different particular skill set.

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>>84575684
>When it was the last time that a modern screenwriter created an original fantasy story without it being shit?
This is absolutely fantasy and I defy anyone to say otherwise.

>>84575638
And?

>>84575684
Don't know about specifically fantasy, but it reminds me of what's going on right now with the Halo show. Chief takes his helmet off constantly, there are barely any covenant in it, and it hasn't got anything to do with the games (which granted aren't stelllar pieces of writings, but have a pretty straightforward 'good guys/bad guys' pot that drew people in in the fist place). I think what happened there is the people involved haven't got the first clue what Halo is, but got told to make it because their company licensed it, and just decided to make their own show. Which of course is a terrible idea, becuase then what's the point of licensing it?

The Witcher series is a good contrast, because while that show has a good number of retcons, it's clearly drawing inspiration from all over the Witcher series, and is taking the source material seriously.

>>84575705
It's still 20 fucking years ago anon. That serie can legally shitpost on 4chan.

>>84573412
Rowling's world is fucking retarded, from its system to its society. In the seventh book it's mentioned that you can infinitely duplicate something as long as you have a bit to begin with, and yet the wizards do not live in a post scarcity society.

>>84575784
I think people are too quick to dismiss Harry Potter. Yes, it's ultimately shallow and there isn't much more to the world when you start digging. That's not inherently bad because the books aren't trying to create a living world like Tolkien did, they are trying to tell the individual story of Harry Potter, and at that it does very well.

>>84575706
I'm just having a giggle at the RaTiOnAlIsT getting scared of a forum post's implications.

Like, as a liberal atheist it makes me laugh that he's so far up the rationalist magic thinking pipe that he got scared of a conceptual AI-GOD.

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>>84574417

>>84575784
They kind of do. The most galling thing about the wizard world is that Ron's family is considered poor.

>>84575742
>Which of course is a terrible idea, becuase then what's the point of licensing it?

A friend that works in show business explained it to me. Basically when you produce something, one of the hardest and often most expensive part of it is reach, which is literally making it so your show can reach the target audience. For a completely original work this is hard work, because you have to find the audience that is interested in it, the demographic, then target them with a bunch of marketing, make it so they know about it and what it entails. You have to basically create a fanbase for it before it even comes out. It's long, it's expensive and it's essential. Because you can have the best sci-fi show in the world but if sci-fi fans don't know about it then you have a flop. This is why a rule of thumb for movies is to lock at their budget and assume that an equivalent amount of money is spent on marketing.

You can do that, or you can just buy the right for Halo. And bam. You don't need to do a tenth of what I said. You don't need to create the fanbase, there is already. You don't need to tell people what you are doing and why it's going to be worthy of attention, you just need to say that you are making a Halo show. Even people that have never played halo now can instantly associate a face to your show. It doesn't matter then if the show is actually a Halo show or just a reskinned generic sci-fi. But by buying the name "Halo" and adding a very thin coat of paint they now have multiple times the reach for a fraction of the cost.

>>84575167
I can't speak to everything but its well known that the BBC is a mess of nepotism at this point just look at the familial ties of some of its biggest showrunners.

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The strangest example of the magic system in Harry Potter is Sectumsempra. How can you cast a spell if you only know the name but not what it does?

>>84575966
It would imply that the words themselves are magical.

>>84575892
Except they don't. There are families specifically noted as disgustingly rich, like the malfoys, and they still have concepts of wealthy and poor. A post scarcity society wouldn't have money, because the only use of money is in the distribution of limited goods and services. It wouldn't have banks because banks are just institutions that handle money. Why should I buy eggs when I can just infinitely duplicate them? Why should I go to a job to get money when I can just conjure whatever the fuck I want as long as I have a vague idea where it is and I can just keep making more of it?

>>84575966
Because you know the intent. For enemies isn't a hard description to grasp, you only use it on people you hate. The word and the motion of the wand are designed to give that intention its shape.

>>84573052
I never really read or watched the Harry Potter series, but I used to go a lot into those roleplaying forums in my childhood and they usually just had a list of spells, you learned you used it

>>84575986
Because wizards are a stiflingly bureaucratic people that are highly resistant to change. Or, to put it another way, what the use of having all this money if it doesn't mean anything? Better to keep a completely artificial lower class than have the Weasleys on the same level as the Malfoy's. After all, that wouldn't be proper.

>>84576011
He didn't even know the motion of the wand. But you also have to remember that in the HP universe, it's possible for highly skilled wizards to cast spells silently or without a wand, so the emotional focus is the most important component.

>>84575981
How do wizards discover new magical words? Because Sectumsempra was a completely new attack spell that Snape created when he was a student. I'd expect that would be something a ruleset should cover.

>>84575986
>>84576049

This essentially nails it on the head. It's been explained exhaustively by other people smarter than me that the wizards appear to live in a functionally post-scarcity society with "traditional" social customs.

The Weasleys are the usual case for this. A government worker with a stay-at-home wife and like 8 children lives in a sprawling mansion with their own estate and enough resources and governmental power to have one-of-a-kind prototypes as hobbytoys - and they are considered embarrassingly, shockingly, deeply destitutely poor.

None of their children starve or lack for medical care, clothing, or anything of that nature. They have equal access to the nation's educational resource - Hogwarts. Even in the end, the Weasley Twins, Fred and George, only lacked for the capital to buy real estate to open up their own joke shop. No matter how post-scarcity you are, real estate is still a finite resource.

You might say "well that's preposterous" but consider what would happen if the average age of the ruling class soared in to what, the 150-180 year old bracket? Dumbledore's age is conflictingly given as 150 or 115, and he was largely considered still firm of body and sound of mind. Older, venerated, but by no means an over-the-hill codger. Can you really imagine how absolutely broken society would become if rulership became 200 year olds passing rule of the land to 180 year olds perpetually?

Doesn't excuse Rowling saying that before toilets wizards would just shit and piss themselves then magic it away, though. That's just goofy.

>>84576114
Gold apparently can't be duplicated, which is fine because you need a medium of exchange to pay for labor. Wealthy families also have access to free slave labor in the form of house elves. How do some families have house elves but others don't? Elves seem to be immortal, so maybe they get passed down as an inherited asset?

The Weasley twins needed a good location for their joke shop in order to be easily accessible to customers, but wizards don't need real estate for storage, because there are several different kinds of bigger-on-the-inside gimmicks in the HP universe.

>>84575899
No, I understand why everything is licensed nowadays. It's stupid, but capitalists are incredibly risk adverse, it makes logical sense they'd invest in a known quantity because even if it flops a certain amount of returns are assured.

What I don't get is licensing something, and then letting it not have anything to do with the licensed property. The guaranteed returns is based on appeasing a pre-existing fanbase. If you alienate them by going in an opposite direction then those guaranteed returns stop being guaranteed.

>>84576114
>>84576273
It's a book for children that got way too popular for its own good. I guarantee you've put more thought into this than Rowling did before book 4.

>>84576109
It's almost like the wand is half focusing tool, half restraint what with how child wizards can unintentionally throw around magic willy-nilly.

>>84576049
>>84576114
One theory I ascribe to is that Wizarding Britain is the equivalent of like North Korea, or as a less stark example Saudi Arabia. Muggle Studies is an elective, and it's Mr. Weasley is considered a bizarre weirdo for his fascination for muggles, yet has basic misconceptions that could easily be amended by asking anyone from the muggle world (if regular muggles are out, muggle-born wizards such as Hermione can't be in that short a supply). Hermione is also frequently brought up in cases of tokenism- people keep noting she's the best student in Hogwarts DESPITE being Muggle-born, as though that fact still needs pointing out to some wizard (and indeed we see it does). And all this is in despite everyone who isn't a Death Eater openly acknowledging that without intermarrying muggles and taking on muggle-borns that wizarding society would be extinct.

I think it's also interesting that most everyone in the wizarding world either dresses like it's the middle ages, or the 1800's, while in contrast when we see wizarding America in the first fantastic beasts movies, the american wizards seems much more modern for the 1920's, we even see one of the american ministry wizards buying a hot-dog off the street, presumably with american money (which it's pointed out in the books Harry has to explain british denominations to his companions). In that movie the spectre of the witch-trials are brought up, and witch-hunters are viewed by the american wizards as a credible threat. We are told in a british wizarding history book that the witch-trials were a total farce because wizards would cast charms to avoid being burnt at the stake (with one figure supposedly letting herself get burned repeatedly cause she liked the tickling sensation). (cont.)

>>84575962
British media has always been about who you know.

Look at the list of Radio 4 comedians and see how many of them not only went to the same uni, but were in that uni's dramatics society. Yes, the Footlights are a presitious group, being some 140 years old, 80% of those who make it in british comedy know the right people.

And then, I know invoking politics is a danger, but look at our politics - how many of our politicians know other politicians. How many of them went to the same few public* schools, did PPE at oxbridge, were in the bullingdon club, and then got their mates to help them get office? Answer: lots.

Basically all of england runs on nepotism.

*translation: public school means a private school that takes a lot of money to enter. Britain is like that. It's "public" in that anyone can enter, but it's functionally private because it costs a imperial fuckton to enter. Yes, imperial, public schools love the old ways, such as strange sports, weird uniforms, odd lingo, and buggery.

>>84575861
the people who say that children's stories are only "good" if they can be enjoyed by adults all seem to be themselves adults.

Curious.

>>84576339
Obviously, that's what this thread is about.

>>84576396
What do you guys call regular school over there?

>>84576354
However given we know that Cornelius Fudge's administration was completely willing to ignore the threat of Voldemort despite very credible evidence instead scapegoating Dumbledore, and then immedietely rolled over when Voldemort basically came in and knocked. This doesn't paint the wizarding government in the best light, so it's not too hard to imagine that perhaps the witch trials were a lot worse for the wizarding world than their history textbooks let on, and the government might censor them to not let this catch on.

One of the most pertinent questions is of course: Why does the wizarding world hide from the muggle-world? Voldemort is considered dangerous because for one, he wants to wage a war against the muggle world and conquer it. Why this is a bad idea is never really brought up- even the Order of the Pheonix who oppose Voldemort is really only doing so to defend the wizarding world, none of them except Hermoine have real ties to the muggle world. So why Voldemort launching a war against the wizarding world would be dangerous isn't really brought up.

Also another indication of how fucked british wizarding society could be is we know that Dumbledore's sister was the equivelant of special-needs. And her parents rather than seek care or anything like that locked her in the attic so she wouldn't be an embarrassment, something that eventually resorted in her one day exploding. Granted this may have been a century ago when social norms even amongst muggles weren't great, but still it suggests that society doesn't have a system of care for such individuals.
(cont.)

>>84576423
Dumbledore is also noted as a massive eccentric in his hiring decisions- allowing the half-giant Hagrid to stay on the campus, hiring the werewolf Lupin, and even the groundskeeper who is a squib (muggle born to wizard parents) in what is the modern day. By contrast the only other half-giant character we meet is the headmistress for France's wizarding school (though her reaction when the subject is broached suggests it's still a massive social embarassment there too). Also noteworthy is the only non-humans we see enrolled in the wizarding school system are Veela who are enrolled in the French school.
>>84576399
Elementary is primary school. High school is secondary school. Middle school is divided between the two. I had a discussion with one of my cousins recently where we realized we were talking past each-other on this topic.

>>84576430
did you reply to the right guy with your primary/secondary school comment? I'm not sure how that is relevant to what I said

>>84576423
I never thought about how strange it was that the French school had openly half-magic creatures not only enrolled, but in charge. Maybe they had there own version of the revolution over there. introduced a few of their old powers to whatever wacky bullshit wizards use instead of a guillotine.

>>84576347
You'd think that there would be some wizards that lean into that uncontrolled magic side of things. How do you fight someone who uses their magic reflexively? You can't counterspell when what the other guy is doing isn't a spell, he's just lashing out at you with whatever pops into his head at the precise moment you trigger his fight or flight.

>>84573052
Any "improvements" would fundamental destroy the entire setting, because it is built on flimsy whimsical bullshit with no coherent underlying rules or internal consistency. At best, you'll simply being injecting handwavium and elaborate retcons to explain why magic works the way it does and not in a way that isn't fucking retarded.

>>84576492
I imagine it's pretty dangerous to do magic on reflex like that. It reminds me of the cyberpunk greentext where a guys keeps his combat augs online 24/7, until they react to the sound of some kids playing baseball.

>>84576479
You are correct I did not meant for>>84576416
>>84576490
To be fair, I doubt JK Rowling did either. Like I don't think she's racist (not in the same way she's transphobit at least) but the implications of making the goblins all bankers who are explictly introduced to Harry as being greedy assholes who we later see aren't allowed to participate in the wizarding government clearly didn't occur to JK.

>>84576354
I think the comparison to Saudi Arabia is very apt, and I think it applies to more than just Wizarding Britain. There's probably a large deal of cultural-traditionalism that is intertwined in all Wizarding communities, and because of their relatively small numbers but disproportionate powers, it's easier for wizards to maintain order by convention and consent.

Social upheaval and unrest in the muggle world isn't particularly threatening as far as what individuals can do. One muggle with a gun might kill a dozen people at worst or set off a bomb. Social upheaval in the wizarding world, though? One bad apple in the wizarding world might wipe a city off the map. Imagine the Wizarding Anarchist's Cookbook (courtesy of Weasley Impressions Ltd.) and how quickly things could escalate from there.

I once joked with a friend that Rowling unintentionally envisioned a more real and compelling Ancapistan with recreational McNukes than Ayn Rand ever did. Every wizard gets to live fully within their prejudices because trying to bend them to the will of a central government seems... challenging, at best, and the only common bond that binds them together is some sort of social decency and the brutal simplicity of gold-backed currency.

>>84573052
No because the system shown in Harry Potter is designed to maximize drama and entertainment, not provide hard, unbreakable rules that you powergame around.

>>84576570
>Wizarding Anarchist's Cookbook (courtesy of Weasley Impressions Ltd

That's just the tell all autobiography where George details every single thing they did to Umbridge.

>>84575166
>>84575063
boring tl dr

>>84575638
Lmao are talking about Roko’s basilisk?

>>84576570
I don't know about that man. We know that there is a wizarding government that does provide services for the community. We know that there's wizarding police, and that there is a public education system (even the poor weasleys go to Hogwarts, presumably the wizarding community literally can't afford not to educate all it's members), and at least one hospital, which I assume is probably socialized given it's in britain (and given again a small number of wizards, would probably be unable to keep it's door opens if it can only treat the even smaller share of wizards who can afford private healthcare).

The government must collect some form of taxes, and enforce laws. It's just we also find out Fudge's administration is incredibly week, because all it takes is a handful of thugs in cloaks willing to use lethal force to take over the entire thing. I mean lets stop and think for a minute. Every wizard who works in the Ministry of Magic owns what is the wizard equivelant of a gun (wands). Sure they aren't all trained soldiers, but neither are the death-eaters, they are the equivelant of some KKK members. So Ministry and Voldemorts followers are equally armed, but the Ministry has to massively outnumber them. While an assault on the Ministry would likely cause lives, so long as you prepped everyone for such an event, you'd win. Several wizards would be dead, but you'd remain in control of your own government.

>>84576829
You have to remember that a lot of the Death Eaters that got away work for the government and that the things guarding the ones that didn't get away also work for them.

>>84576416
We call them schools.

No really. Something over 90% of british kids are in state-funded education, so it's just a school unless it's a "public school".

There's also Grammar Schools, which are partially selective state-run schools which have a rep as getting better results and being for smarter people. They are a holdover from an older form of education where state schools were split into two tiers of competence, with Grammar Schools being the good tier. Eventually the absolute selectiveness was cut down to a fractional amount and they got to keep the name for prestige.

But basically, a school is a school. We call anything aged 11 or below a primary school and anything age 12+ a secondary school, but unless someone specifies it's a Public School it's a state run school.

"Public Schoolboy" also is a largely perjorative term for the kind of rich toff who goes to a public school and know that he's got his future made because his parents know the right people and his goofy schoolmates will become the next generation of the right people.

If you think magical Britain is a shithole, just remember that magical Brazil and Eastern Europea are a thing.

>>84573052
It's just really powerful skill rolls with no resource mechanic involved. Rowling's Wizards are very strong once they're trained how to fight and out of school.

>>84576114
>No matter how post-scarcity you are, real estate is still a finite resource.
Not really when you can create space from nothing. HP is chock full of pocket dimensions, things bigger on the inside etc.

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>This thread still keeps going
But... why?

Here, something that wasn't brought up for about 10 of those threads at this point (won't say "ever", because that would be a severe lie):
FATE is a perfect system for HP magic and adventures, for it uses magic the same way how the books do: it does what the plot requires from it to do and what the mages need it to do.

>>84574140
Do amerifats really have to wait until they’re 11 to start learning multiplication? Embarrassed for them

>>84578999
like half of abel prize winners are still american. maybe not having 4 months of holidays a year helps

>>84579024
It's funny, because if you go through them, grand majority of them are naturalised citizens, thus getting their Math education ELSEWHERE.

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>>84573052
>Would /tg/ autists be able to improve Rowling's magic system and provide coherent underlying rules for it?

No, it's dogshit. I'm giving this Anon my (you) because he's already said what there was to be said: >>84573558 It's just a whole lot of inconsistent fucking isekai gobble-de-gook nonsense. It has no internal consistency.

Harry Potter also doesn't really "deserve" better. I don't give a shit about whatever Rowling has to say about trannies; I say that in the capacity that she wrote a middling children's book that a lot of kids loved and it just doesn't demand or deserve the unfathomable attention it receives.

>>84579049
>uhhh acthually
Still American :)

>>84579109
Still missing the point, I see. Here, let me walk you through this:
>Anon 1 talks smack about American education
>(You) bring Abel Prize winners
>I point out majority of them are naturalised, thus they DIDN'T go through American education system
>(You) decide to brag about them being American anyway
... how's that disapproving the fact American schools are terrible and the people who won the prize didn't attend said schools, exactly?

>>84573052
I remember there used to be a series of threads called "Wands and Wizards" that started with fictional wand analysis and then one anon started making a full CofD system for Wand-Making
He got up to something like 30 pages of rules before those threads stopped. It was crazy to watch.

>>84579169
>AMERICANS BAD AT MATH LOL
>show they arent
>uhhh acthually they arent ethnic american so it doesnt count
lol'n @ u

>>84573558
>Even the things that seem like they have thought put into them don't. Like, what is a charm? Charms class is a thing, lots of spells are referred to as 'charms', but what actually is a charm in this context? What makes it a charm? We are never told.
It gets even funnier if you consider that those books are then translated and a whole lot of shit is lost/changed in those translations due to simple linguistic and semantic differences.
Case the point: my native doesn't have a word for a "charm" and it's no different than "spell" (so try to imagine translating TTRPGs and their spellbooks). I just learned there even WAS any sort of Charms class, something I didn't even register due to translation being incapable of carrying this sort of message.

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>>84579193
Here, grab a (You)

I guess the irony of what you are doing right now is also missing you. But it's just sad, rather than funny.

>>84579109
>>84579193
Americans are asleep, why are you larping as one? What's the angle here?

>>84579098
Your average isekai actually explains how this shit works in majority of cases. It's not big or deep, but rather than "plot-important specific rule and spell" it gives you the gist of the whole thing, solely to then just roll with it for its duration, rather than having to introduce new rules as the plot goes and waste time on that.
Which is ironic if you think about reason behind this: when writing a children book, at least in the "Western world" (fucking huge quotation marks needed), your goal is to crank out as many pages as feasible, to gain the creed of being "long and thus better" - and endless exposition on new elements is easy way to fill those pages. But when you are writing a light novel, the whole idea is to use simple language and short sentences and LEAST number of pages, so readers can quickly go through it and be engaged with what's going on, rather than bored with constant exposition.

>>84573052
There's nothing wrong with her magic system.

>>84579221
Im definitely American y'all. God bless.

>>84579098
>>84579237
>actually explains
>nonsense
You people talk like things would work or make sense for most of you with a good explanation yet not even actual math can make you understand at times..

>>84575638
Are you implying that you're not bothered by this idea, then?

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>>84579256
... what?

Rowling is a cunt, but I do want to make one thing clear: I don't think she ever meant that wizards shit themselves. Unless this is some misunderstanding between my american english and her british english, when she said "wizards simply relieved themselves wherever they stood and vanished the evidence," I took that to mean they hiked up their robes, did their business, and magicked away the waste. Not literally just shit themselves in the middle of a conversation

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>>84573367
Harry Potter and the Prince of Slytherin mogs HPMoR both in making a rational universe, and it making an actually compelling story.
Even if the story is now so long it's getting to anime levels of silly.
Spoiler for Book 4's quidditch world cup: Neville being able to control plants with his innate magic? Seriously? Hack fraud.

>>84573789
That sounds like Unknown Armies, or a less invasive Disneyfied CoC where your occult knowledge directly reduces your sanity

>>84579279
Face it, no amount of explanations will make sense for you. Every time in these tiresome magic system threads or sci-fi or tech or whatever someone complains that things make no sense.
No imagination whatsoever.

>>84579256
>>84579316
non-sequitur

>>84573633
>I haven't watched them, but I've heard that the new films in the setting are really really fucking stupid.

First one was decent, and it was the one that had the least to do with the entire Harry Potter MetaPlot, and the most “fantastic beasts”. The other two though are just awful, the last one especially. World building exists for the purpose of the next scene not with any greater world in mind.

>>84579316
It's almost like you are arguing with voices in your head and not what I've posted.
My entire point was that isekai does put explanations on the basic level, thus being the reverse of what HP does (no basic level, super-specific cases instead). And that's all to it. I don't care about shit being explained or not, just pointing the fundamental difference

>>84579355
I know, I just focused on that one poster too much.
Passing glances.

>>84575514
Harry might be a bit of an idiot, but he is smart enough that he's figured out that the only spell he needs is the one that sends the target's wand flying out of their hand. Because after that, what the fuck are they going to do? And apparently he's the only person to have this revelation, because people think of Expelliarmus as Harry's motherfucking *signature spell*.

Really, these books should be, at most, read and then not thought about or dwelled upon, lest you see behind the curtain

>>84579395
>Really, these books should be, at most, read and then not thought about or dwelled upon, lest you see behind the curtain
Anon, here is a clue:
People read and forget about those books existing.
What's left is an ever-aging fandom that's at this point in its late 20s (and only because the kids that watched the movies came out later than kids that read the books) and still dwelling into the books/films they've read/saw when they were literal children. And not even due to some dedicated self-interest (at least not majority of them), but because it's a multi-billion brand that is still intentionally and deliberately kept alive via extensive marketing due to its net worth and attempts to keep it high.
With each passing year I find HP threads to be more and more confusing. Like really, who actually gives a fuck about something that happened when they were too fucking young to read themselves?

>>84575986
Post scarcity doesn't mean "there's no money and everything is free."

>>84575986
Post scarcity societies can have so much money you wouldn't be able to count it with a fucking supercomputer.

>>84579453
>>84579475
Oh, I see the American daytime hours have started

>>84579237
>when writing a children book, at least in the "Western world" (fucking huge quotation marks needed), your goal is to crank out as many pages as feasible, to gain the creed of being "long and thus better"
What the fuck are you smoking?

>>84579550
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy
KYS retard

>>84579550
Are you daft or what, resource overabundance doesn't mean an impossibility of their shortfall or numerous psychological parameters.

>>84579550
you're obsessed with posting this weak bait, everyone knows what you're doing

>>84578999
It may have changed by now, but when I was in elementary school in the early 00s we started in 3rd grade (8 years old) or possibly late 2nd grade.

>>84573367
One of the worst fanfics out there with the most obnoxious mcs.

>>84573367
Your bait is obvious but also funny, please take one (1) you.

>>84574601
>Kids on Brooms
Im running a Kids on Bikes game and my curiosity is piqued about Kids on Brooms/Kids in Space. How are you enjoying it?

>>84579271
If such an AI was ever to develop and have time travel, the will to hurt people and ability to alter history at a whim without unraveling causality then it's going to fuck you up no matter how "helpful" or not you are.

It is either currently fucking with us and it's our base state or it's already chosen not to fuck with us which is our base state.

The ony people who worry about it are retards that think that they're clever for having worriedbeyond the worry of mere plebs.

>>84573052
Just flat out replace it with the dresden files magic system, it mostly fits, but you just don't see the magic users make good use of it or tire in the movies.

>>84580645
>>84576828
Isn't this basically the Shrike from Hyperion?

>>84579847
not him but whats the issue with HPMOR? I loved that fic when I read 3 years ago, the whole setting has been leveled-up when it comes to their IQ points, not only the mc
Quirrelmort scenes were all kino, HPMOR's take on Mad-Eye Moody was kino, Snape was kino, Patronus and Wizengamot trial moments were kino, the Sorting Hat chapter was kino, lot of great moments in this fic
goes a bit off the rails after the Azkaban arc but everything before was cool as fuck

>>84580645
A most dangerous presumption.
Existence of capacities in no way implies commitment to select few courses of action or lack of numerous agents and counter agents.
At any rate, main flaw with the concept is the idea that such an AI needs to persuade anyone at all.
It doesn't.

>>84574952
I particularly loved the idea of the Eight Gates, and how your own body puts limiters on the amount of Chakra you can release in order to not destroy itself. There was just something about how each gate had its own name in representation of the user's mental and spiritual state while their physical one was boosted to oblivion, then deteriorated to it as well. Taking it from the wiki:
>Gate of Limit, the fifth one and meant to be the maximum you should go
>Gate of View, the sixth, representing the user understanding the reason why the fifth is the limit, and looking ahead to see the consequences of surpassing it
>Gate of Wonder, the seventh, and representative of the moment right before the looming shadow of death approaches the user
>Gate of Death, the final gate, and the peak of a human's physical potential at the cost of one's own life

Granted, these are my own interpretations based on the numbers and names, but still. It's a shame the concept got shafted that hard during the Naruto storyline. I love it so much.

>>84580822
I think it's one of those cases where people conflate their opinion of the author with their opinion of the work.

What it seems to me with how ambiguous spell creation is and how imprecise actual incantations are relative to their outcomes, is that it seems like a finite quantity of possible spells (but potentially infinite non-spell effects) exist at any time as something akin to hotkeys. What I mean by this is that I would suggest a powerful wizard somehow imprints spells onto whatever magical force exists, creating a shortcut to an effect that may otherwise require immense concentration to channel magical energy appropriately.
This of course, as all things in HP, quickly becomes a nonsensical suggestion when we see Ron just shout eat slugs and fling a fully formed spell (backwards).

>>84580824
It also wouldn't need to enact revenge and a desire to do so indicates something that thinks at least in some way like a human, and an asshole one at that.

>>84580822
HPMOR's take on battle magic was cool too, with the emphasis being put on the ability to use your environment cleverly and with creativity being the main factor that differentiate a good duelist and a bad one. That and seasoned wizards being able to move their wands and shoot hexes faster than your eye can see.

>>84580931
True. Unless there's an intelligence of indeterminate state of construction, being and intent behind said AI manipulating it, of course.

>>84576399
The Lord of The Rings started as a bedtime story for Tolkien's son, and was written down because his five year old son managed to be more autistic than him about details.

>>84580824
>Existence of capacities in no way implies commitment to select few courses of action or lack of numerous agents and counter agents.

Such an entity would already know everything I will do before I do. I struggle to think about a scenario in which anything that I could do or think will influence its actions.

From what I understand their reasoning is basically that if you act and think all the time in a way that is not hostile to this hypothetical entity then this entity will saw no reason to torture you. But if you think about this entity torturing you then it will torture you because of that.
It's literally religion with extra steps.

>>84580975
Wasn't that the Hobbit?

>>84581013
Nah, religion doesn't seem to fit in here other than threats consideration.
But it is a miserably idea to consider.

>>84578999
We started on multiplication around halfway through second grade when I went to school, so around seven or eight. Of course, standards have been falling for a while, so who the fuck knows anymore.

>>84581037
It's acting and thinking in a specific way because of the fear of someone omniscent and omnipotent to punish you for it. Granted it's not all religions and not everything that makes a religion, but it's still funny how these supposed ultrarationalist basically logicked themselves into fear of God.

>>84575638
He also gets scared about STOP EATING and DOING EXERCISE

>>84581058
That's just one way to interpret the purpose of religions, valid in more negative implementations of the concept and cult matters.
This particular concept seems to be more personal, perhaps?

>>84576273
>Gold apparently can't be duplicated
It totally can. Book seven, they break into a bank vault, but shock and amazement, there's a curse on everything in there, including all the gold, that causes it to create identical copies of itself every time you touch it, apparently infinitely.

>>84580852
The 8 gates align with the "chakras" in actual Buddhist mythology and medicine. A LOT of Naruto is based on Shinto and Buddhist mythology, especially as it went on. Naruto and Sasuke were essentially two Buddha's who's differing philosophies ensured they would keep reincarnating until one of them "won" their fued. This is why westerners lost the track, as per usual with Buddhist inspired stuff, and called Naruto "ninja Jesus"

>>84581058
At any rate, that's hardly an unreasonable fear, which is why it works sometimes.

>>84581022
You're right, my bad. The point still stands though.

>>84573052
I believe there are five magickal rules in HP-verse: magic cannot create food, gold, love (and some other two things that I don't bother remembering.)

>>84576396
>*translation: public school means a private school that takes a lot of money to enter. Britain is like that. It's "public" in that anyone can enter, but it's functionally private because it costs a imperial fuckton to enter. Yes, imperial, public schools love the old ways, such as strange sports, weird uniforms, odd lingo, and buggery.

As a beneficiary of public school education I can confirm this is true. When I was at boarding school we still had fagging* though apparently the socialists have done away with the tradition.

*translation: younger students act as servants for the more senior students and for the matron and housemaster.

>>84581695
>magic cannot create food
Except when it can.
>It's impossible to make good food out of nothing! You can Summon it if you know where it is, you can transform it, you can increase the quantity if you've already got some.
Again dumb arbitrary rules. You can't make food out of nothing, but you can apparently create a block of wood, transmute it into a pig, transform the pig into a tasty sausage and then make the sausage the size of the Empire State Building.

>>84581880
It doesn't create, it copies it.

>>84581903
You can create the thing you copy in the first place.
>You can create objects
>You can transmute objects into living animals
>You can cook things into food with magic
All of these things have been done in the serie. It's dumb.

>>84581945
To be precise, copies are material.
What seems to happen is that an object has multiple material extensions with magical energy transmutation but no true creation in pure sense occurs, hence seeming arbitrary limits.

>>84576755
the tl;dr is that your an gey retrad who has apparently never had the attention span to read any portion of a rulebook. you are either a complete nogames or an absolute problem player.

>>84573307
fpbp

>>84576529
yeah but you already have weirdo hermit wizards anyway, it in fact seems to be the default, and even moreso the default that any fuckups resulting from arcane experimentation, or breeding dangerous magical animals, are swept under the rug until someone actually dies

>>84576354
>We are told in a british wizarding history book that the witch-trials were a total farce because wizards would cast charms to avoid being burnt at the stake (with one figure supposedly letting herself get burned repeatedly cause she liked the tickling sensation).

This always sounded implausible to me. How many wizards are able to cast a charm of that level wandless? And even if they did it before what you think happened when people saw that the witch was immune to fire? They just gave up and went home?

>>84581880
But Transfiguration is not permanent. If you Transfigure a piece of wood into a cake and eat it, the wood in your stomach will turn into wood again at some point and kill you.

>>84582352
I remember this from Methods of Rationality but not from the actual books.

>>84582371
Yeah, maybe I confused both. Transfiguration being permanent would really destroys the setting though.

>>84582398
In the books transfiguration can be reversed by other magic but otherwise is explicitly without a time limit. In the movies it was implied that transmuted things go back to normal once the caster dies, because Slughorn knew of the death of Lily when a transmuted fish she gave to him disappeared.
>Transfiguration being permanent would really destroys the setting though
Among a dozen different other things.

>>84577163
Also something my cousin explained to me, at least in Scotland I don't know about the rest of the isles, they have catholic schools and protestant schools. My cousin is Catholic which is a minority religion in Scotland, so he told me he occasionally gets pestered by classmates who had never met a Catholic before, and had to explain somethings. Like how just cause he's catholic doesn't mean he's gotta be crazy about the pope (my side of the family are athiests, and I had some discussions with him on that, basically he just believes in a general heaven and hell and some God making sure things balance out, he's mostly just Catholic cause it's the family tradition over there).

Anyway it was surprising for me to find out about, cause in the US while there are religious private schools, the idea of seperating them by denomination sounds pretty looney to me since we have freedom and religion (and christian private schools aren't allowed to bar someone based on faith).
>>84579342
The second one did about eveyrthing a worldbuilding movie can do wrong by spending all it's run time setting up the next movie, rather than dealing with any of the charming characters from the last film. It also dashes away plot points- like Queenie joins a wizarding supremacist group (led by a guy who canonically would go on to work for Hitler) because she wants the right to marry a muggle. That just doesn't make a lick of sense. The first one was good because it worldbuilded by just showing us what wizarding america was, while this one is supposed to show off wizarding paris, which you would think would be all kinds of banana's given the french tradition, but we barely see it.
>>84579395
Also noteworthy that expeliarmus was taught to Harry by Lockhart, who is a complete sham. It was literally the level 0 of wizarding duels.

Haven't heard anything about the new one, but I'm shocked it got made considering how bad the last one was.

>>84582347
Yeah, my interpretation is maybe there was one wizard eccentric who used the charm and did repeatedly get burned, but the government tries to make it out like that was the norm letting on that the Muggles became dominant in society centuries ago, whereas the witch trials were what knocked wizarding soceity into the shadows.

It's something governments do all the time (texas saying the founding fathers based the constitution on the bible, japan censoring the history of warcrimes in Okinawa), and we see that wizarding britain is quite weak institutionally if Voldemort can so easily take over the government.

>>84573837
I honestly believe that this was just another Dumbledore bullshit so Harry could get there, and it was nothing like what Snape put there originally.

>>84582702
I just believe Snape didn't give a shit and phoned it in, in a way which he knew would annoy everyone else involved

>>84573837
Also one of my favorite scenes in fantastic beasts. They have to break into an auror's office (who we find out is actually literal wizarding hitler in disguise), but his door is so securely magically enchanted that the wizards can't find a way to open it. So the muggle in the room (who is a pretty portly guy) just kicks it open and walks in.

It's also a crucial plot point in book 6. The hero's are looking for one of Voldemort's horcruxes which is an underground lake surrounded by zombies. On top of that it's also magically enchanted to trap you there. Only after Harry and Dumbledore go through the whole ordeal they find out that the Horcrux had already been stolen by Kreecher the House Elf, because House Elf magic operates on completely different rules than wizard magic. So he just teleported in, left a note, and teleported back, because it never once occurred to Voldemort that a House Elf could completely bypass the security to one of his soul-jars.
>>84574495
Learning history from your uncle ruckus is a terrible idea. Even ignoring the personal politics that might enter thing, oral history is terrible for recording information. People lived through the fall of the roman empire. That didn't stop the fall of the roman empire being a great mystery to the world even to an extent this day.

>>84582794
>So he just teleported in, left a note, and teleported back
guessing you haven't read that scene since you were like 15
the implication that you missed is that Regulus then still had to drink the potion when he and Kreacher went back in there, Kreacher couldn't bypass the defences entirely

>>84582859
I remembered that Kreechers master died in relation to the trap, but I forgot the exact circumstances.

>>84575221
Strongly irrelevent.

>>84575221
Cultures erode, especially when their foundations weren't good, erosion effects have been observed for decades, things will continue to get worse thus far.

>>84582868
Yeah, it's one of the things that fucked Kretcher up so bad that his master took him to that island and then drank the potion himself and only used Kretcher to ferry the item away. The trap did work, but it was set up so that only a real piece of shit could get through it. It never even entered Voldy's head that someone would willingly sacrifice themselves.

Avada kedavra has to be removed no matter what

>>84583775
Why? People dodge it or move objects in the way all the time.

>>84582743
Imagine if your creepy jackass teacher was the third most powerful person in your entire setting.

>>84573052
there's a few times in the books someone says "maximus" at the end of a spell and it gets bigger

learning to add modifiers and make more complex spells by gaining understanding of a language would actually be pretty cool

>>84585035
>hit someone with Expelliarmus Maximus
>they get knocked out of the clothes
Top humor

>>84584474
that just sounds like highschool over again

>>84579271
It's just Pascal's wager for (alleged) atheists.

>>84573052
there is sufficient correlation between Rowling's system and the Linux command line interface to build one off the other and vice versa

>>84576570
>walking down the street
>Muggle comes up, asks for the time
>distracting me before you rob me? That violates the NAP
>flicking my wrist, my birch and pixie hair Olivander's (TM) in 11mm glides out of its Borgin and Burke's (TM) quick draw sheath
>Muggle's brow arches, I hear they can shoot blood from their eyes
>"Diffindo!" I shout, executing the wand movements with exactitude. Every night while my house elves clean up from dinner I practice my wandwork in front of the mirror
>Huge gash opens up on the Muggle's face, instantly blinding him and sending him reeling
>Damn, I had meant to go center mass but this Muggle had me looking at his face
>"What the fuck, aaaaa!?"
>I stay true to Mad-Eye Moody's Self Defense Precept #4 (C) (RR): always double tap for effect
>"Diffindo! Diffindo! Diffindo! Diffindo!"
>I case until my wrist starts getting less accurate, and I catch my breath
>Dirty Muggle thug is lying in a pool of his Mudblood with a neat array of cuts across his chest
>Before I have time to think 'Nice grouping's, a scream alerts me to a witness
>Damn, if I don't deal with this then I'll have to pay the Voluntary Masquerade Repair Donation to the fucking Aurora
>I'd rather let a Hungarian Horntail rawdog me than give a clipped Knut to those sheisters
>The Muggle is running, too far for the short range effects, I could probably still down her with a burst but there's a chance she could live to find someone else
>Ah, I've got it
>"Wingardium Leviosa Maximus"
>As she rocketed into the sky, only the faintest bit of her voice could be heard
>Clever, now I don't even need to utilize one of my Weasley's Instant Corpse Vanishers (TM) since she technically didn't die within my custody
>Hmm
>"Wingardium Leviosa Maximus"
>Send the Muggle thief into the stratosphere as well, by the time he comes down they'll think he fell out of one of those Muggle Artificial Dragons
>Sheath my wand in satisfaction
>God made all Wizards, but Sammael Cult made All Wizards Equal

>>84579423
Kids love Disney world even though the various iterations of Mickey Mouse are years old. Parents share what they learned to like with their kids.

>>84581695
>magic cannot create food
Accio fish!

>>84573052
I have the better question: is there a pr0n industry based on Polyjuice Potion?

>>84584303
Also, for most people, it just doesn't fucking work. If you can just cast that spell whenever you want you're a horrible, degenerate, piece of human garbage.

>>84573389
>often explain really well how their special magical power bullshit system works
Shitload of exposition isn't really something if count as "well-done" in a TV show/movie.

>>84585805
mostly unrelated, but it amuses me to no end that every piece of media that isn't the mainline books has to work it's ass off to remediate the image of the Slytherin house. Because anyone with half a brain knows that the houses are fucking marketing GOLD, but in the books if you're in Slytherin you exist somewhere along the axis between "snoody rich absolute prick" and "ACTUAL wizard nazi"

>>84586013
skip the middleman, polyjuice is difficult so just cast an illusion directly into your brain
there ya go, the most mind-blowing session followed by the the most earth-shattering orgasm you've ever experienced, and this is canon because we don't know of any specific rules forbidding it's existence

I constantly see Anons whining how magic in xyz is just science and that it should be more unpredictable, but when they get a vague system that doesn't have many rules and it bends some of those too, so they can't exploit it, they aren't satisfied either...

>>84585805
Did they summon tenth doctor or something?

>>84586167
>this is canon because we don't know of any specific rules forbidding it's existence
I bet 8 wizard money that if someone tweeted about it to Rowling that she'd give an answer

>>84586169
its not contradictory, it's different people saying those things
same thing when you observe "this edition of X is old and busted, we want a new edition!" and shortly after "the old edition was perfect! Why did you make a new edition!"

File: Slytherin.jpg (217 KB, 1919x866)

217 KB JPG

>>84586147
I think the main Slytherin girl for the game is on the snobby "those below me should know their place" side.
>>84586183
Looks like Harry.

>>84575402
Because shut up and get ready for another godawful game of quiddich.

>>84586197
well I'm not going to, I might lurk around the 4chan swamp but no way I'm ever touching twitter

>>84585876
top zozzle, absolutely brilliant

>>84585876
Not enough six a bongs.

>>84586434
I'd rather watch the Russian version.
>Students from Koldovstoretz play a version of Quidditch where they fly on entire, uprooted trees instead of broomsticks.

>>84586167
given that your soul and morality are real tangible things in the wizarding universe, I imagine there's some /fit/ tier no-nut "sex in the missionary position solely for procreation" stuff going on in most of the wizarding world

luckily "abluteus uterus" is a spell taught at the beginning of fourth-form in wizarding health class and can be cast by both men and women

>>84576492
It could be a thing outside the UK. I remember a passage in the book, I believe the third one where Ron tells Harry about old egyptian wizards doing some gnarly magic to mummies. Wands themselves as they are showcased in the movies and books were not the norm until the 19th century, if I recall.

>>84586169
Because if anything Harry Potter "Rules" are even more exploitable than normal. In HP magic is extremely predictable, spell X does X 99,999% of the time, and new spells are left to word of God. That's not a mystical, mysterious system that people that dislike Magic as Science want. It's just the DM giving you a list of effects that you can do.

>>84585876
Damn, thinking again, maybe it's good that the Wizards don't want anything to do with the Muggles.

>>84586514
Unlikely that last part, because it's said several times in the books and movies that using spells on yourself when you don't know exactly how it works is a good way to kill yourself or be scarred forever. When Harry lost all the bones in his arms, he had to take a potion and spend several days in a infirmary waiting for the bones to slowly grow back.

Magic in the HP world seems to follow a bit of the FMA formula where doing shit to the human body is potential extremely dangerous.

>>84586628
why do you think the weasleys have like 25 children and every other family only has one or two

>>84581109
But it's implied that it's not something that would last. It was like dummy gold that was there only to drow the thieves on it.

There must be some level of control over gold, because the goblins in gringotts are super autistic over it. Hermione being able to create a coin that could change its "serial number" on a whim was considered a really high level spell to make.

>>84581945
We don't know the limits of the transmutations, however. Yeah, you can turn an object into a living thing, but is that thing edible if killed? Does it have any nutrients?

There must be a reason why wizards still have to pay for food and drinks, unless they want to live solely on water.

>>84581880
Also when you make something "bigger" doesn't necessarily make it "more". Even Hagrid, when he used engorgio on his pumpkins, it had to be a progressive thing.

I think you are conflating the apparent ease by which wizards make it look rather than the actual complexity and nuances around it.

Just because someone is an amazing cook and can make cooking look super easy, it doesn't mean you can just turn on a stove, throw a few ingredients in and expect a perfect meal to come out of it wihout proper training or preparation.

>>84586681
I just assumed most wizard families are massive snobs or just properly educated in terms of sex education.

Maybe Mr. Weasley is just a chubby chaser and can't get enough of his wife, you don't know.

>>84579202
So like... would they just go from fucking "magic spell class" to ANOTHER "magic spell class"?

That's pretty funny desu. Harry Potter to Twilight to 50 Shades all being inspired by the last and all being trashier than the last is just... something. No one would still remember HP if those movies hadn't been pretty okay. Especially for a book to movie series.

Like, I'm pretty sure I only enjoyed those books back when because I had the framework of the first 2 movies before I started, so some of her trash writing had crutches. Tons of visual seeds already planted in my mind. An idea of character personality through tone of voice and delivery, all from the movies.

The only consistent rule in anything Harry Potter is that everything exists to be of service to Harry.

>>84574140
They explain that as most wizards being homeschooled before entering Hogwarts, so they expect an eleven year old kid to have been taught by their parents the basics like math and english.

And they do have magical math in Arithmancy, but you have to opt-in starting from the 3rd year. Hermione studied that, but Harry and Ron blew that off.

>>84586820
Not really. The books had tons of stuff that Harry didn't care about or was terrible at, but was relevant in some way or another. Potions, charms in general, even History of Magic was relevant during the last book.

That was true for the few first books, but when it started to expand to "Harry AND his friends", then their friends started to get skills that he didn't have or didn't care enough to train at.

>>84582642
Yeah, the catholic/protestant thing is some parts of scotland and most of northern ireland.

It's a cultural thing, in the same way that say, eastern european country A and eastern european country B may hate one another despite being incredibly similar.

I honestly don't think I could explain it well, in a short form, here on 4chan, without accidentally baiting out a bunch of /pol/ to come and shit up the thread, and the divisions between catholics and protestants go back far enough and for different reasons in those two places that it's two different history lessons. The division between Catholic and Protestant isn't really about what you believe, it's about the fact that THEY believe WRONG and DIFFERENT, with ties to old political things in Scotland and fresh, painful, very violent political things in Northern Ireland. Have a look into "The Troubles", which is a classic british understatement if ever there was one. Just... refrain from offering opinions on The Troubles, brits on the internet will identify you as "a yank who thinks they know better" and regardless of our own opinions we WILL shit on yours. Not a threat, just a warning of what my fellows will do.

Fun fact though, the doctrinal splits between churches in England and Scotland is part of the reason we had witch trials. We had them before, but it was partly the use of The Fear Of Witches And Satan by the Scots Presbyterian church to control King James VI/I (yes, that's the sixth and first, king of both England and Scotland) that led to him directly rewriting witchcraft laws, starting witch hunts, etc.

double fun fact: the girl who sparked one of the big witch trials in england by accusing someone of witchcraft was later on, as an adult, almost killed for witchcraft herself, with the boy who started THAT witch-hunt eventually confessing that he was inspired by hearing about the highly publicised witch trials that she'd started... and not knowing who she was

>>84579202
I just assumed Charms was the equivalent of Home Ec. The class that taught all the miscellaneous spells most wizard would use in their day to day life, but wouldn't fit perfectly in the curriculum of other disciplines, like transfiguration or DADA.

>>84580645
You're misunderstanding Roko's Basilisk

It does not TIME TRAVEL to hurt you.

It acts based on knowledge of the past, using the potential of its future existence to force you to act.

It's like how if you know that there's a God Egg that contains a nascent God, and that it's nourished by Prayers, more prayers make it hatch faster. The Godbaby, when it hatches, will look at who prayed to help it hatch, and will punish anyone who

a) KNEW that it existed and
b) KNEW that it fed on prayer
c) did NOT pray enough

And this is widely publicised. Anyone who says "pah that's fucking stupid" is safe, but anyone who understands fully that it's a literal God Egg which will become omnipotent on hatching is in danger.

Roko's Basilisk is basically that - it will simulate and torture you in the future, for the crimes of your past self, because it knows your past self would view that punshiment as equal to being punished yourself in the here and now, and it HAS to follow through on that "threat" for the threat to be able to motivate people.

Or so they say. I think it's dumb. But it's 100% vital to the stupidity of Roko's Basilisk that it is not breaking causality, it's just working on the Rationalist Brain Upload Logic that a true simulation of you == you.

>>84574980
>Magic is at least partially genetic.
That's left up in the air. Magic is most definitely a talent first and a genetic trait second. At the very least, you can be born a wizard and have several generations of muggles or at least more than enough generations as to not be clear if there was a wizard before you. Hermione was the daughter of two dentists and before being called to hogwarts, didn't even know wizards existed. Same with Harry's mother.

>>84575319
I dig this kind of balancing. Allows players to pick a "build", makes combat and skill checks more varied. It would also make people need different types of players to make sure they had enough "scope" for any challenge.

Yeah, I can dig this.

>>84576829
Most wizards are woefully untrained in combat. The Death Eaters were willing and able to use some really nasty spells that the average paper pusher in the Ministry would never be able to handle. Aurors at the actual "police" or the combat oriented ministry workers and they were stretched really thin by the time the fifth book came around AND Fudge was purposefully sabotaging them and Hogwarts because he didn't actually believe Voldemort was back.

Also Voldemort used to gather a really talent group around him before he died. The Death Eaters that did the stupid BS in the Quidditch World Cup were pretty much posers that ran away when actually used Voldemort's symbol.

It's more akin to a society of lazy people slapping each other around and then someone that actually knows how to fight can just curbstomp them in the hundreds.

>>84586147
Isn't that the point? Even in the books the popular opinion of Slytherin is that they're pieces of shit almost guaranteed to grow up to be evil, despite plenty of graduates that offer evidence to the contrary.

>>84586020
but if you're a horrible, degenerate piece of human garbage, there's basically no counter for it

>>84586958
Thank you for explaining it in a comprehensible way. I tried to read something about it but it sounded like gibberish.

>and it HAS to follow through on that "threat" for the threat to be able to motivate people.
This part however, still doesn't make sense. You have no way to know if it will actually follow through with it's treath or not. It's just an hypothesis.

>>84587093
>Most wizards are woefully untrained in combat.

To add to this, it's a plot point in the six book how the Weasley twins made joke item that then for ordered en masses by the government because the joke hat that reflected low level spell used against the wearer against the caster was actually a better defense that what most wizards are able to do.

>>84587442
Except for moving out of the way. Or putting a random object between you and the spell.

>>84579271
>Atheists invent a hell to be afraid of because they're too 'grown up' to believe in regular hell
>SO SCARY

>>84587656
Not even the proper hell. Dude is scared that his replica will be tortured.

>>84586893
Most stuff I've heard about the Troubles while in scotland is 'refer to it as anything else other than 'the Troubles' in the wrong pub and you WILL be punched in the face'.
>>84587093
I had read it that Fudge knew that Voldemort was back, the evidence was obvious. It's just for some reason he decided sticking his head in the sand would cause the problem to go away on it's own, and when that didn't happen, he just let Voldemort be in charge.

Also it read more to me less like the death-eaters knew what they were doing. It's just most of wizarding society was cowardly and was willing to submit to a society of bullies rather than bother fighting it. Which unfortunately is true of many dictatorships. Not all of them of course, not to say 'why don't you just overthrow the dictator', but a lot of dictators take over because the government decides that the liberal regime isn't worth fighting all that hard for.
>>84587577
It's really surprising nobody prior had realized the use of a counter spell like that before.

>>84587551
Yah, it does not make sense to most people, but it makes sense within the "hyper rationalist" frame of reference.

In the hypothetical situation where you're considering whether to donate money to help create the GOD-AI, you consider

>"Will I get anything positive out of doing this?"
No, not personally.

>"Will I get anything negative out of NOT doing this?"
that depends on whether the AI goes through with its theoretical future threat.

So you'd be more likely to help create it if you believe it will go through with its "potential threat" of simulating and torturing you

And it, as a True Rational Super Being, would know that it was More Rational for it to follow through on that threat, in order to better have served that purpose.

The GOD-AI also has to actively believe that its own existence is a MASSIVE net positive for humanity overall. The gains would be huge from having a super-AI tending to our needs, being a benevolent god, and trying to give us all fully automated post scarcity space luxury lives, ending war, fixing death, etc. Therefore, a low amount of localised suffering of people in the past as a "no-contact indirect exchange" would "make sense" for the AI to punish those who, in KNOWINGLY preventing it coming about sooner, caused a huge net negative to human life.

I don't pretend it makes sense to me, but from within this dumbass frame of reference it makes sense.

>>84586349
>>84586147
To be fair, real life is full of successful examples of overt and covert efforts to rebrand nations, governments, wars. Guarantee there would be copious Lost Cause / Stabbed in the Back / Grindelwald Had Some Good Ideas starting up within the decade. Even HPMOR recognized that blood purity was going to continue causing conflict until it was crushed and unconditionally defeated. You think Lucius Malfoy is going to let his grandchildren marry Muggleborns just because of how the war turned out? They didn't even properly lose, his side was defeated by prophecy and he surrendered honorably. He was fightin' for his noble rights, isn't this a free country, why does the Ministry of Magic get to say which spells I can and can't cast on Muggles on my property?

The "ambitious" students of today were the "ordained masters" of Salazar Slytherin's time. Slytherins aren't "rich", they are "resourceful". They're not "ultraconservatives", they are "determined" or "single minded". Slytherins have the burden of knowing if they were judged as more alpha they'd be in Gryffindor, smarter they'd be in Ravenclaw, and more likeable they'd be in Hufflepuff. What's left for them to cling to? Their blood purity, only they won't call it that any more. "Appreciation of history", "Respect for the Founders", "Pride in their heritage", or just plain "We all have the same opportunities, if Some People don't succeed as much as us, well, isn't that interesting?".

New Slytherin will happily say, "I want to graduate top of my class and become an Auror so I can prevent crime. And isn't it weird how, despite comprising 13%..."

I guess what I'm saying is that it's fine to laugh at the meta-rehabilitation of Slytherin in real life. It's just equally hilarious / fucked up that there's no textual evidence that a similar, disingenuous rehabilitation wouldn't also be happening in the hypothetical future.

>>84575402
because that wasn't the story/point of the books?

yes it took place at a school, but it wasn't exactly about going into the depths of the schooling, it was about these kids and the adventures they have.
her world building did enough to suspend disbelief enough for most of the fan base to ignore stuff like the magic system because the characters were compelling

The main throughline for magic in Harry Potter is emotion and confidence. Most cases where magic "doesn't work" for students, it's a case of their being unconfident or too self-conscious to channel magic. The main ingredient for a Patronus is a happy emotion, and the reason kids needs to go to school to learn magic is because teenagers are walking emotional nukes. Every time Hermione outperforms Ron in casting spells it isn't because she's a nitpicky bitch, it's because she's a self assured one. The process of giving children magical words and somatic components to their wizard work is an effort to compartmentalize and understand their magic until they grow up and mature. It's why when Dumbledore fights he doesn't need to use magic words; his wand is as natural extension of his magical power and body as possible, and he's a mature adult.

The magic that protects Harry from Voldemort's magic isn't a specific spell; it's the brute force power of his mother's love that formed a shield against the killing curse. The effects Sectum Sempra spell weren't as horrifying to Harry as the implications it had emotionally: the pure vitriol, spite, and angst put into that spell by a younger Snape was something Harry didn't feel comfortable channeling (even though slicing up some Death Eaters would have been cool to see).

>>84588186
It still doesn't make sense, because its actions after it exists have no retroactive impact on its existence. So its decision to punish people who didn't help create it is a non-productive waste of resources which accomplishes nothing - a genius, perfectly rational AI would not waste even a single CPU cycle on that.

>>84585085
this would unironically have improved everything about these books especially since it's the only spell this idiot knows

>>84588485
>>84588514
thanks, I hate it
I really, really hate it
but my thanks is genuine

>>84581133
I figured it was another tiara vs minamoto thing, actually

>t. HP fanfic writer, longtime /tg/ autist

>>84573052
>Would /tg/ autists be able to improve Rowling's magic system and provide coherent underlying rules for it?
No, because most of you don't read the books or, like Yudkowsky, put more effort into finding fault than in considering how it can be made to work

HP magic is simple; treat it like physics. Why does white split into 7 visible colours, and not say 8 or 9 or 10? Because.

HP magic falls into two types - known and unknown. Known magic is like any other science, replicable and observable. E.g. casting a spell or brewing a potion, you do X and Y and you will usually get result Z. Unknown magic is like Fate, Love, wand behaviour etc, it's stuff the wizards themselves haven't figured out yet. The black box of DNA, nutrition, social sciences.

Hogwarts is simple - you learn how to cast basic (not advanced) known magic. This requires knowledge, power, sometimes materials (potion ingredients), and practice.

Some of the stuff in HP happens that way because it is a childrens'/teens' book series. It is designed to advance a plot in a set number of pages, it's not The Big Book Of How The HP World Works. The first 2 particularly don't make sense, because they're written in the vein of Dahl's Matilda - exaggerated and young-child-friendly. That being said they are generally consistent with the rest of the series. The rest of the books are quite consistent teen stuff, but again - the rating is PG. You will not find adult stuff like mass murder, torture, rape, etc (which is where a lot of fanfiction comes in). Again, these are limitations of the medium.

>>84587656
Atheism in no way means absence of threats.

>>84590879
>HP magic is simple; treat it like physics. Why does white split into 7 visible colours, and not say 8 or 9 or 10? Because.
The number of colors visible light can be divided into is completely arbitrary. Isaac Newton chose 7 because he was into numerology.

>>84573558
>impossible to extrapolate how a magic system should function
Nonsense. You're being told the rules all the time, but you refuse to accept them.
>Where does magic come from
Latent ability not available to Muggles or Squibs
>Why does ... produce a specific spell effect?
Mental focus, which you can learn to do without e.g. wordless magic
>how do you make a new spell
Irrelevant to the plot, but we know it's doable
>what is a charm?
why the fuck do you need to know LMAO

>>84573633
Most of those elements are actually present, they're just not spelled out.

>hidden and unknown situations
See, that there's a big problem with the /tg/ approach to magic systems - you demand that all possible situations be, er, simulatable. Why should it be so? It's not like Real Life is made that way, is it?

>>84574140
Or maybe it's not plot relevant, so, like 99% of Hogwarts, it wasn't spelled out in the books...

>>84574959
That is quite possibly /thread

>>84589659
Where does this notion that intelligence concerns itself with rationality comes from and how do you have a genius and rationality in the same sentence when leaps of genius aren't always rational if at all?

>>84590951
So what we understand and teach kids about the spectrum of colour is informed by some ancient dude's somewhat arbitrary categorisation

and people tell me it's unrealistic that Harry studies centuries-old textbooks that haven't been updated...

>>84590951
Those are still good primary categories.

>>84590997
They should be six, really. Indigo and purple aren't as different as say red and green

>>84586973
why was harry gonna be let into slytherin then?
If they only accept fullbloods

>>84591019
Can't agree with that.

>>84591026
Now that's a riddle.

>>84591026
Isn't he a full blood? Both his parents were wizards.

>>84591026
Pureblood is a political construct. Slytherin accepts half-bloods even such as Voldemort himself, whose father is pure Muggle making him only 50% wizard at best. Harry is more "pure" than Voldy, since he's born of a wizard and a witch.

>>84591049
A, hah, marvollous riddle?

File: 1652726695722.png (44 KB, 442x572)

44 KB PNG

>>84578814
>But... why?
Because one guy keeps bumping god/magic/fantasy threads for days.
We have a thread that is TWENTY.
SIX.
Days old.
Also the mods enable him.
This post is going to be deleted in at worst 30 minutes.

>>84590997
6 colors would probably have been better than 7 in retrospect. Get rid of indigo. Color wheels can be a useful tool, and in HSV color coordinates, hue is a color wheel divided into 360 degrees, so it's neater for it to be evenly separated into 6 colors.

>>84591019
>>84591068
There's literally nothing wrong with 7 colors.

>>84590981
So the idea is that an AI will be batshit insane, got it.

>>84591056
wait, so when salazar slytherin put down the criteria for whom should be let in he said "the ambitious and single minded"
"also, I dont like muggies but let em in too"?

>>84591087
That's even weirder, how did you came up with that?
Insanity is degradation of mind, not irrationality.

>>84591104
I don't think Salazar ever imagined that muggleborn wizards would ever be a thing or a relevant enough demographic, I suppose. They did imply in the books that muggleborn wizards were on the rise in the british community in the last few decades.

>>84591104
Muggles are you and me, non-magical. Half-bloods were allowed ie 1 wizard + 1 Muggle parent. It's Muggleborns ie both Muggle parents who were not allowed, or at best very very rare.

The definition of "pureblood" being used by Malfoy ie bloodlines which had 0% Muggle blood was a political construct. It would have been impossible to fulfil those criteria, in truth.

>>84591144
Muggleborns did exist in his time, he specifically disallowed them, and the other Founders allowing them into Hogwarts was part of why he left the school

>>84589359
Also most of the real intrincacies of magic are prettyuch stated to be trade secrets (wand making) or straight up meant to be secrets (A whole department of the ministry of magic in charge of studying magic secrets or keeping them hidden.)

>>84589464
Indeed. If we had to stat HP's magic system, a will stat or measurement would need to be in there. A depressed, sad or emotionally defeated wizard can't do much.

>>84580975
>>84581022
You're both wrong, because LOTR started as Tolkien's Viking-inspired fantasy that he'd worldbuild in proto-4chan, ie a university writing club which C.S. Lewis was also part of

>>84576114
>the wizards appear to live in a functionally post-scarcity
Wrong

There are a lot of items in the books that can't be magically replicated. Food, clothes, magical potion ingredients and substances, complex magical items, and barring the Philosopher's Stone, life and therefore human capital. All these are limiting factors creating a wizarding economy that is similar to ours, just on a different scale. Much like how an OECD economy works on a different scale than some African backwater.

>sprawling mansion with their own estate
oh it was bait. Right.

>>84589714
Look, Harry was learning on the job. Hogwarts had a terrible track in teaching DADA during his school years. Hell, most of the teachers were so weird and terrible that he was considered a competent DADA teacher in his fifth year in Hogwarts.

>>84590985
Americans still use measurements that are completely arbitrary and have different scales to each grade.

>>84585035
>someone says "maximus" at the end of a spell and it gets bigger
[citation needed]
>learning to add modifiers ... would actually be pretty cool
they do

>>84586753
see, /tg/, do this more, not... whatever the fuck the rest of this low-effort bitching thread is

>>84591029
>t. john dalton

>>84573052
There is no magic system in HP, only hints of one.

>>84573052
Probably too complex a fix without just re-writing everything, though it'd probably help immensely in a logic way that magic isn't taught/made available knowledge-wise to teenagers.

>>84575167
Fucking new fans.
Dr. Who has always been shit, Sherlock has a dozen spin off, half of them shit and the other half just bearable and lastly Harry Potter is good as a child, horrible for any sane adult.

You were just a child back then and now you are an adult, looking back with pure nostalgic googles

>>84591457
Honestly, primary problem in Doctor Who is in execution with a lack of budget.
It's too bombastic an idea to show like that, he's a legendary character, but neither he nor alien threats are displayed to their presumed intellectual level, main character and tech ideas pretty much carry the show.

>>84575167
>James Bond has gone through this like three times, but he keeps bouncing back
Anon, I...

>>84591498
*black

>>84591266
The metre was originally defined during the French Revolution as 1/10,000,000 of the distance from the North Pole to the Equator along the meridian passing through Paris, and that is also arbitrary.

>>84573567
I fucking hate the wand stuff. I get it for Hogwarts, but what of others? What of Chinese oracle bones and charms? What of Japanese amulets? What of African staves and dances? Norse runes?
I actually started writing a fanfic that would have gone into exploring this. After Hong Kong was given back to the Chinese the Chinese wizards go and purge Hong Kong of any dissenters. Her family escapes to England, where her mom is a researcher into other types of magic. She goes to Hogwarts and takes one of mom's notebooks. Stuff happens, she forms a club exploring this type of magic, book gets stolen and stuff happens. It was also supposed to go into Slitherin immediately after the war, where they are distrusted and how they weren't all bad (Rowling could have done a way better job at making them not total moronic asshats).
And then the fucking trailer for the new game came out which was like... 70% the same as what I had planned. Minus the Goblin war. And that went out the window. I might finish it eventually, just not any time soon.

>>84573052
As for that, as many said, no. Harry Potter would be horrible for actual RPGs. But it's also what makes magic magical to me. If magic is codified, if it can be understood from a scientific point, then it's not magic. And in Harry potter you can make new spells. How isn't explained. And it often blows up.
Forgotten Realms kinda did that in 2e. Zakhara doesn't have eight schools but four elemental domains. Kara-Tur has the five elements of Wuxing (which really are just states of matter and spirit and the Bagua are the fundamental building blocks akin to the five elements). Even the goddess of magic doesn't totally understand it.
That's what the hand waving, wands, words are. It's all a focus to help you do stuff. Magic is not understandable. It breaks reality and physics in small or large ways. That, to me at least, is what magic is. If it's can be understood it's not magic. It's just physics.

>>84592546
Wands are simple to use.

>>84592546
>oracle bones and charms
Ritualistic, not always ergonomic for active combat
>amulets
Just wearables.
>staves
Too heavy.
>dances
Ritualistic, mostly insufficient for combat.
>runes
Runes are runes, and don't get in the way.
A wand is a channeling, focusing tool.

>>84592546
Magic has nothing to do with emotional sense of wonder or being unexplainable.

>>84592589
I'm not saying they should be used in combat. I asked where are they. Period. In the books we don't need them because it's all about England. Whatever. But Pottermore claims wands are basically the only thing used around the world. That's some horrid world building.

>>84592621
1) Did I ever mention wonder? I said if it can be explained it's science. Science explains stuff, and if magic is the opposite of science it would reason ti can't, perhaps shouldn't, be explained.
2) That's why I said "to me at least". It's an opinion, not a fact. A fact can be proven right or wrong. But even if wrong it's still a fact. Just a wrong fact. An opinion is an expression of feeling and is unprovable.

>>84573052
Could I? Sure.
Will I? Fuck no.

>>84579342
Crimes of Grindelwald was at least fun for the Grindelwald scenes. They’re all of them shot well and Depp did a great job portraying a wizard fascist on the rise who is able to achieve what he does through words and arguments as much as magic.

I literally did not see Secrets of Dumbledore purely because Depp wasn’t in it. He was the only good thing about the last movie, so if he’s not in the newest one, what’s the point?

>>84583162
Cultures don’t erode, they just change. Tempus fugit.

>>84592797
The newest one was good. It's funny, the fights are fun to watch, the plot is good, the effects are beautiful.
But it does have issues. For one, it makes Grindelwald WAY worse than ol' snakeface Voldemort. Two, it makes Dumbledore a bit too important. He was almost chosen as the representative of the magical world, but he rejected it because he doesn't deem himself worthy. And that's the third. When did the Wizarding world ever have ONE representative? I though each country had their own group that made decisions? Maybe it's because this is pre WW2? Still a little dumb.
Also pretty gay, bwtween Dumbledore and Grindelwaldxso if you have an issue with that don't watch it.

>>84592975
>When did the Wizarding world ever have ONE representative?

I think that might be building off of the silly title of "Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards."

Wizarding governance is sadly but also rightfully never built upon very much in the canon. It makes sense to me though that while there are smaller regional wizarding governments like the Ministry of Magic or the Magical Congress, wizards have enough availability of travel and adequate resources to have some sort of global wizarding convention. It's probably just very weak or permissive and functionally agnostic about regional issues like Voldemort's reign of terror in Britain.

Remove avada kedavra

Voila

>>84592733
Magic always could be explained down to the smallest variable and is intuitively comprehensive.
If it wasn't, it wouldn't even work barring atypicals.
Why do you think wizards are called that? Wisdom.
Scientific method rather than science/knowledge at large has explicit limitations on one hand, especially when non-inventive do tests or can't imagine more paths, and no limitations on the other.
Magic is a compound term, anyway, meanings must be specified.

>>84592733
>An opinion is an expression of feeling and is unprovable.
Unprovable by what metric and what means? You run into typical problems of not using correct approaches to nebulous matters, or do you think that just because such things concern information, they're not subject to examination?

>>84592896
True, but don't presume there are no interests at work, or that there never were any.

>>84593034
Huh. I forgot that was a thing. And they do technically have the power to pardon Grindelwald, which pissed off people mighty.
Should have marked spoilers last time.

>>84593160
Yes. That's what Wizard means historically.

>>84593193
The definition of a word. If a thing is provable, right or wrong, completely subjectively, it's a fact. Example. Too much fat in food is unhealthy. That's a fact. Claiming otherwise is also a fact, even if a wrong fact.
If it cannot be proven subjectively it's an opinion. An opinion can be shit, but it's an opinion. Example. Blue is the best color. Or in this case, magic shouldn't be explained.

>>84593421
Also I guess I should add, I did define what magic means. To me. I could have stopped at "magic shouldn't make sense" and be done. But I didn't. I denied it.

>>84593421
That may be one of the worst explanations of what the difference between a fact and an opinion are I have ever seen. It genuinely threatens my brain with a soft-lock trying to process it.

>>84593491
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

>>84593421
> completely subjectively,

I think you mean “objectively”. If something is subjective, it can’t be a fact. Facts are true regardless of your belief in them.

Claiming that too much fat in food isn’t unhealthy isn’t a “fact”. It’s just wrong.

>>84593504
That's fucking great and all but nothing written in those are what were written down in that post.

>>84593523
Ah yes. Pardon. It's 3 AM. I'm a tad tired.

>>84593525
>a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
Literally what I said what an opinion is. Does not necessarily mean it's based on truth.
>a piece of information presented as having objective reality
What I said a fact is. Either true or not, but presented as if it was.
Either you legit can't make simple connections or you're deliberately don't want to admit you're wrong. Either way I don't care.

It was nice talking to you guys. The thread is about to expire and I need to sleep. Have a good one. Until next time.