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ZAX(SPI): "Upload complete"

The Spi gives you a map of some of the major NCR locations she's surveyed. It's not an all inclusive map and there may be some other towns, facilities or such not listed but these where what she could get in a months time.

Items with Yellow Bolts are areas of high power usage or traffic, and likely sources of something special.
Items with Blue bolts are power generating stations or factories.

She has files for many of these locations, at least the ones with yellow bolts. You may ask about them if you wish.

brb, i got the thread started but will return soon. Take this time to look at the map and see if you have any specific questions. I'll be working on the turn from last thread

>>1933146
>The Phoenix Commonwealth of America's home territory is a tiny spot on the map.
Huh. So that's how small our territories actually looked like.
>>1933154
Do we have parts of Utah claimed already, the ones who are a protectorate or vassal of us?

>>1933146
Are the Boomers shooting their guns from Boomertown? Because if so, they have overpowered as fuck 100 mile range artillery guns. Whack man.

Does SPI have a passive overview of things or will we still need to spend actions for it (passive as in if there is a mobilization of a town we will know about it)?

Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us? Is it radstorms?

What does SPI know about Shi and Boomertown areas? How can we take out the Emperor (or take over) and what are the vulnerable parts of Boomertown (an ammo dumb right beneath the guns, for example)?

What is the percentile power production capacity of every major power hub? Which is the most vulnerable? Same for factories.

Where is High Command (the actual, not beurocrats)? Where does Yaunker live? Is Oddball in his casino?

What is the most secret thing it learned? Any big project (ion thrusters, more ZAX)?

Where is the ZAX?

>>1933160
As far as I'm aware, not officially lest you alert the Legion, MLA, or NCR. Your contacts in Utah are mainly the independant tribals in Zion no?

>>1933164
I Don't think spi got that in depth of a look at things. Just noted "stuff is here, high traffic"
So we arent getting specifics of what project happens where or an in depth look at their power usage.

>>1933176
Large information cable means high communication bulk. Large powercables means either lots of production or lots of consumption of power. If you see a place with a huge power cable next to a beefy IT cable you can guess theres a big computer there. It might not be the ZAX but a powerful calculator nontheless. It might not know exactly but educated guesses are ok too.

>>1933164
>Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us? Is it radstorms?
I believe when we drew the borders around our current lands, we weren't sure about some things and thus attempted to avoid claiming lands held by the legion / NCR or drawing ourselves too close to them. So we mostly made sure we had a border with the Divide and that we had ourselves and unity within our borders.


Now, as to actual good targets, I would direct the attention of everyone to the so-called "battle mountain" spearhead of the NCR into the MLA. If we were to deploy a few small nuclear warheads from the divide surface (like those the courier can detonate with the laser designator) into whatever supply route they have in the region, we could render their position either unsustainable or even entirely isolated for a period. A great win for the MLA but doubtful it would actually do more than delay the inevitable in regards to the NCR's push. It would however result in a significant loss of manpower and resources for the NCR along with moral damage. Not to mention placing the high value regions of Gecko (nuclear power plant) and Vault city within striking range of the MLA.

Another potential target would be either Ft. Steel if we wished to cut off the NCR's main push into the Legion but that would require getting the MLA to provide the actual forces to take and hold the land after we eliminate the defences or the Ridgecrest air force base. The elimination of which would greatly weaken the NCR's control of their borders with the Legion and MLA but they will most likely have other bases to allow for basing and shit.

Logically speaking therefore, if we wished to make a strike against them there, we'd need to be smart, fast and stealthy. If we can destroy their airforce in the south we grant the MLA and the Legion respite as well as striking a serious blow against the NCR's morale.

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>>1933164
It's more like 100km, or 62miles.

Spi was not able to take an inside look at the kind of weapons being fired, but from a distance she was able to calculate the trajectory of one of the shots as well as observing some previous shots. By now the guns are fairly silent, as the Legion has already been pushed back.

>>1933178
But if you lookat where the lightning bolt symbols are they are either cities ir fortresses, both of which is where one expects high capacity cables and plenty if power.
This is all assuming that it isnt located in some secret mountain complex locked uo tighter than a virgins butthole, with no power in or out and wireless communications only turnes on when needed.

>>1933184
Okay, so Boomertown isn't a high priority so long as the Legion is as far back as they are...we could change that.

>>1933164
>Does SPI have a passive overview
Nope. She went around with her subterrine peeking through periscope and scouting out with stealthed Assaultrons. There were a few close calls and a few self destructs, but nothing but slag remained from those.

>Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us?
There isn't much there to speak of. Niether you or the Legion much care for it. Most of your patrols are centered around your usable locations.

>con't

>>1933184
Gotcha, makes more sense now. Schwerer Gustaf is okay. Over that is a bit iffy.

>>1933185
We CAN actually take a look inside the city as well, since you cant really route that much power through low power lines (its in the name). So this means that even the secret bases and doomforts need to have a power station, relay or other infrastructure near it, thus making it detectable. I dont expect we can walk just in but we CAN spot a power station next to a straw hut in the middle of nowhere.

>>1933191
>Nope. She went around with her subterrine peeking through periscope and scouting out with stealthed Assaultrons. There were a few close calls and a few self destructs, but nothing but slag remained from those.
How much would she need for a light passive network? Main troop movements, large projects, local news, that sort of thing.

>>1933191
>There isn't much there to speak of.
Just dirt? No trees/grass, no water? Caves?

>>1933194
Or inside it. It seems like a strategic liability to have your forts power generation located outside if your base. No ones building a generator next ti some random hut.

As fir cities, we can probably tell there is power generation near by, but unless we had all the donestic power usage data, all we can really know is that the generator powers the city. No way of bowing if any of the buildings are secret government think tanks or what have you from our position.

>>1933202
>power generation located outside if your base
A sub-station, since if the country has a large power grid it would be illogical to build generators everywhere instead of where it is cheap and easy (economics of scale). And even if the generator is underground, the network cables still have to run out.

As to cities, I dont want exact wattage, I want ballpark estimates of which locations are most important and what the weaknesses are.

>>1933207
Except havibg you fortress tied to the power grid just adds a vulnerability. Electrinics would be able to be shut down by a guy with a shovel an axe. Security would mean forts have internal power.

And secret bases would definitely have their own power. Mainly because the logistics would not be in their favour if they choose hard to reach locations.

With how bot organized the BCR were until recently, and lack of public spending, im fairly certain every city has their own power source, even if now they are connected in one grid.

Main point is we have objectives to act on now.

My first obvious recommendation is that we shouldn't get too involved in long range military affairs since they are risky as hell and will take too long / too much, reducing our resources for civilian affairs like Montana or New Washington. However, we can potentially have SPI perform a raid on the NCR's nearby airbase and eliminate as many of their planes and pilots as she can.


One kinda insane idea would be to have her disable their radar array and then steal all the planes out from under them, flying them over Ft. Steel (after getting the MLA to begin a push) and bombing the shit out of it before landing them in the MLA and selling them or flying south, through the legion, back to our lands to study and use. This would require not only that we could sneak into the base and disable the radar but that our robots could get onto the planes and either eliminate the crews (in flight), before take off or steal them before they board. Not to mention then needing to fly them back.

Still, it's something to consider if we could get them the ability to fly the NCR's planes.

>>1933254
Problem is we don't have the ability to fly NCR planes. And you seem to be assuming they wont just shoot down any of their planes that leave during a crisis like the radar going down.

>>1933272
True but to be honest my primary plan would essentially be blowing them the hell up. Blowing everything we can up in general. This is just a "ideal outcome" concept. Also, I did state that it ain't possible currently (probably) but my main point was that this'd be a way to fuck with the NCR.

Plus, I doubt the NCR has that many if any AA guns scattered around the base seeing as the MLA lacks long range aircraft and the Legion lacks aircraft. Plus we could eliminate those too if it came down to it.

>>1933280
It takes a bit for a plane to take off. And they arent armoured or anything. Lots of things someone can do to disable a plane taking off. Shoot the cockpit, throw grenade, park a truck in front of the runway.

Ideas for now.

Any chance of seizing Sierra Madre? controlling the weather could make expansion into Alaska easy as pie.

remember that NCR Battleship? fly SPI and some backup bots out to it and capture it. then turn it around and bombard all those juicy coastal power plants. Should stall the NCR industry.

Taking over the tank town from the northern territories is a great idea. it also nets us all the subordinate towns who can easily be made more stable, self sufficient, modern, and profitable.

if we need to disrupt the NCR even further plant a genetically enhanced super strain of giant ants beneath the Shi and let them grow.

>>1933284
>It takes a bit for a plane to take off.
True but it also takes a long time for them to figure out something is off and decide to do something as dangerous as you are suggesting.

>And they aren't armoured or anything.
The NCR is using pre-war designs like B-29's. They can certainly take a fair hit. Anything that should be able to damage them would only be able to do so assuming they were above a certain height thanks to the fact most AA weapons don't exactly aim below a certain angle. Not to mention that they do carry significant armaments and could most likely suppress or destroy those weapons.

>Lots of things someone can do to disable a plane taking off. Shoot the cockpit, throw grenade, park a truck in front of the runway.
And most of those things are incredibly stupid to do or wouldn't work on robots. Seeing as they'd resist a frag grenade and most guns.

>>1933298
>Any chance of seizing Sierra Madre? controlling the weather could make expansion into Alaska easy as pie.
Nope, Elijah has it.

>remember that NCR Battleship? fly SPI and some backup bots out to it and capture it. then turn it around and bombard all those juicy coastal power plants. Should stall the NCR industry.
True but the main problem is that we'd probably fail.

We should however "Terror from the deep" the shit out of them with modified aquatic robots.

>Taking over the tank town from the northern territories is a great idea. it also nets us all the subordinate towns who can easily be made more stable, self sufficient, modern, and profitable.
Agreed. Political marriage, invasion or what?

Personally I'd point out that the colonies are seemingly free to leave but choose not to do based off of them lacking a better choice for a ruler so if we are better and stronger they'll come.

>if we need to disrupt the NCR even further plant a genetically enhanced super strain of giant ants beneath the Shi and let them grow.
That might work but, and I want you to hear me out here, what if we were to push the creatures of the sea out? Mirelurks are susceptible to sonic waves and can thus be directed towards the coast and thus into the NCR. Not to mention it only requires we have a dozen or so boats with sonic projectors.

>>1933298
The madre requires fighting elijah. Which would be a fight and a half.

The battleship wont so easily be "captured" like that. Best bet is just sink it. And even if we do capture it, it would get sunk pretty quickly from bombers and such.

No giant ants. Can you not see the pretty certain issues with letting loose a fast breeding biological weapon. Its going to ruin everything, everywhere.

>>1933309
We need to kill Elijah sooner or later.

backing SPI up with a squad of Crimson Dragoons makes taking the ship more likely.

Not a bad idea, but not a huge priority.

The barons seem like a group of corrupt shitheads. power is probably split between families. Straight up conquering it might be preferable. Perhaps ally with the most agreeable Baroness and marry her for legitimacy. Use Fusion and Replitech to jump them to post scarcity and drop taxes for the resource towns to the bare minimum.

Each town looks to be forced to specialize in one thing so that none of them can go independant. The tank city uses its airforce and artillery to kill raiders, but also to prevent caravans and trading. Also all their other options are shitty. upgrading our portal tech would allow us to turn the seperate cities into one giant distributed mega city.

then we can turn the tank city into a post scarcity juggernaut of expansion. the only question is if we send it west into Alaska, South into the NCR, South into the legion, East into who knows what, or North into Calgary, Edmonton, and Fort McMurray.

>>1933310
I admit the ant idea might be a bit of an over reaction.

>>1933353
>We need to kill Elijah sooner or later.
Yeah, personally my solution is to colony drop the bastard out of existence. That or a lunar laser / disintegration beam.

>backing SPI up with a squad of Crimson Dragoons makes taking the ship more likely.
That would be far harder and far riskier. Easier to just make more infiltration assaultrons with aquatic enhancements and calling it a day.

>Each town looks to be forced to specialise in one thing so that none of them can go independent. The tank city uses its air force and artillery to kill raiders, but also to prevent caravans and trading. Also all their other options are shitty. upgrading our portal tech would allow us to turn the separate cities into one giant distributed mega city.
True but to be honest, I'd just give them a nice rail network seeing as they'd not exactly be going between towns frequently and could just ride with the cargo.

>then we can turn the tank city into a post scarcity juggernaut of expansion. the only question is if we send it west into Alaska, South into the NCR, South into the legion, East into who knows what, or North into Calgary, Edmonton, and Fort McMurray.
I'd say we send it north since that'd push into the Legion who'd struggle to beat it even slightly.

>>1933367
>Easier to just make more infiltration assaultrons with aquatic enhancements and calling it a day.
Were probably not going to be keeping the ship anyways, so the most efficient way to deal with it us probably jsut blow it up. Whether it is a torpedo or a bomb in the ammo bays.

>I'd say we send it north since that'd push into the Legion who'd struggle to beat it even slightly
north is MLA. So is the west. South is legion, but we cant exactly send it down there without support.

>>1933371
>Were probably not going to be keeping the ship anyways, so the most efficient way to deal with it us probably jsut blow it up. Whether it is a torpedo or a bomb in the ammo bays.
True. Problem is that you Americans had pretty good damage control systems on your ships in WW 2, not to mention whatever the pre-war and NCR governments have done to it...so we'd need some sort of large nuclear explosive or something to eliminate it for sure.

>north is MLA. So is the west. South is legion, but we cant exactly send it down there without support.
Canada is held by the Legion as well so we can send it north to claim the frozen expanses.

>>1933381
The NCR probably isnt expecting a naval fight, so I don't see them improvibg the armour if the existing design is fine. And we are working with more advanced torpedo tech. Think less topredo and more remote controled mini-sub filled with c4.

Parts of Canada are held by the legion. And anyways, i doubt the northern legion is much of a concern when they are seperated so thoroughly from home and cesear.

>>1933395
>The NCR probably isnt expecting a naval fight, so I don't see them improvibg the armour if the existing design is fine. And we are working with more advanced torpedo tech. Think less topredo and more remote controled mini-sub filled with c4.
Not armour. Bulkheads, pumps and other counter-flooding measures.

As to what you are advising we detonate within it...it could work if placed slightly into the hull so as to crack it rather than piercing it since it would compromise more of the ship.

>Parts of Canada are held by the legion. And anyways, i doubt the northern legion is much of a concern when they are seperated so thoroughly from home and cesear.
It's not a question of being a concern, it's the fact that they can easily be defeated and thus we can box the NCR in on one side while getting a lovely area of land to cover in solar arrays, geothermal power stations and other such things. Allowing us to relax slightly in regards to expanding north into Canada and Alaska and instead focus on either going east or south.

>>1933381
I don't think it's a WW2 ship man, I think it's a restored pre war modern battleship. But I could be wrong.

>>1933403
I still think Anchorage could be a gold mine of late war resources. And a safe gateway into the USSR and China.

Most important, none of the factions can get to any factories we put in China, Alaska, or further. And portals means we can pull massive resources to any of our bases.

>>1933412
>I don't think it's a WW2 ship man, I think it's a restored pre war modern battleship. But I could be wrong.
It is a WW 2 ship. It's a thing from the Frontier but I remember it having the name of a WW 2 battleship of the Americans.

>I still think Anchorage could be a gold mine of late war resources. And a safe gateway into the USSR and China.
True but I've always felt that just going underwater all the way and salvaging ship wrecks as we go and shit.

>Most important, none of the factions can get to any factories we put in China, Alaska, or further. And portals means we can pull massive resources to any of our bases.
True. To be honest the surface area is the thing we need more than anything else long term to support low input power generation so we can just sustain massive replicator factories to kill the NCR / MLA / Legion / BOS / Whoever we piss off next.

>>1933412
Its the Iowa, first launched in 1942. But retrofitted alot, so i fuess it would be pretty modern.

Be careful when thibkibg there is anywgere absolutely safe. China likely has its own factions we would have to deal with, and alaska. Probably has some military elements doing things for the past 200 yrs.

>>1933424
According to google, with modern technology, there is 15 to 18 million acres of arable land. If nothing else, the Legion should have some holdings there.

>>1933436
What, Alberta?
Pretty much all Alberta has going for it is wheat and oil, so food was never an issue. I was speaking more about lack of communication and support from the main legion body.

>>1933486
And they are quite possibly the only faction that could survive a lack of communication thanks to their cohesive structure and culture.

Fact is that they are all the more a threat because they have established supply lines and such in a region where we have little if not no experience.

>>1933421
>>1933424
So an old warship retrofitted to "modern" standards. I can see why they spent time on it.

The thing with Alaska is its in the grips of a nuclear turbowinter. Unity can function just fine due to her complete control over her body, but regular folks probably need special power armor to survive outside. I suspect any civilization up there is living in heated domes supported by hydroponics. Or burning a fuckton of oil to stay warm.

Either way we can offer them an abundance of food which is likely a great inducement to join ranks.

>>1933146
Wow, if the Legion were threatening the NCR Caputal at one point, they've really been pushed back.

The MLA's spearhead attack makes much more sense now.

The position of the cloud worries me, we have to deal with Elijah soon.

QM, could you add Montana and the Northern Barons to the map?

>>1933603
>Wow, if the Legion were threatening the NCR Caputal at one point, they've really been pushed back.
True but I have a few ideas about how to stabilise the borders again. Mostly providing the Legion with some new weapons...

>The MLA's spearhead attack makes much more sense now.
Agreed and to be honest I hope it is very successful.

>The position of the cloud worries me, we have to deal with Elijah soon.
Eh, he's been expanding for a few years now. We've got another half a decade before I feel he will make his move.

>QM, could you add Montana and the Northern Barons to the map?
As much as I want this, it took so long to get this much.

>>1933627
Yeah, but we want to move at the legion soon, so arming them up isnt really in our best interests. And its not like they would deal. We betrayed cesears trust personally.

So what's the plan with Montana? Are we gonna diplomance them into annexation or will we go with my plan to take them over militarily?

>>1933635
I'd argue that moving against the Legion is slightly less advisable than it once was. I want to focus on Montana and other such projects than getting into a protracted land war against the attrition war Legion.

Seriously, we can't fight against their raw numbers. At least not any time soon.


Plus, they'd be reliant on us for ammo and the weapons themselves for the most part if not entirely. So that'd limit their ability to make use of them against us seeing as how many they'd probably use against the NCR.

>>1933642
I think we need to see how amenable the baron is before we decide whether we use diplomacy or not. And also build up more.

>>1933642
Individual villages and towns? Diplomatic takeover by a mix of military intimidation (eliminating all the raiders in the area alongside their warriors, showing how much stronger we are), technological awe (outposts, robot armies and all that), generosity (all this shit for free if they join us) and so on. Plus the Courier has 10 Charisma and shit.

Actual nation structures like the Barons? Military where needed, diplomatic where preferable.

>>1933648
Except legion has gunsmiths of their own. Pretty decent guns too. Brush guns and assault rifles. And the bounty that we get from the dam and bew vegas would be more than worth it in the long run.
Im not suggesting taking out the entire legion, but just the mojave area. It also gets us a border with the madre, which would be useful when we have to deal with Elijah.

>>1933660
>Individual villages and towns?
I don't imagine they'll be Individual towns left, seems like everybody has picked a side between the Barons and the BoS so they can be protected against raiders.

>>1933666
>Except legion has gunsmiths of their own. Pretty decent guns too. Brush guns and assault rifles.
True but seeing as what I want to sell them is something along the lines of the PIAT, they'd struggle to produce enough ammo.

Anyhow, the logic I am operating off of is that the Legion is going to be beaten by air power more than anything else. Bombers, close air support and all that sort of thing rather than ground forces.

>And the bounty that we get from the dam and new Vegas would be more than worth it in the long run.
Most of the benefit could be gained without seizing the surface. The vaults, the river and such.

>>1933670
True but if there are any, we'd want to get them if we can. I'd also say that getting the BOS's towns under our control might be easier than the Barons since the BOS are actively warring with the raiders.

>>1933691
>True but if there are any, we'd want to get them if we can. I'd also say that getting the BOS's towns under our control might be easier than the Barons since the BOS are actively warring with the raiders.
I wonder if we could assimilate the BoS in Montana, i expect it's gonna be a bit troublesome, even more so depending on what their relationship with the Midwester BoS is like.

>>1933691
Some things are underground, but other things are not. The dam at least needs to have its surface controlled inorder to do the work needed to repair it. And holding just the dam leaves us surrounded.
If were claiming the dam, we might as well clear the rest of the mojave.

>>1933694
Yeah but if we come from a position of strength it will be all the easier. Taking their support out from under them would certainly do that.

>>1933698
I've made my opinion regarding the dam clear. I feel it is entirely possible to repair and use the dam without seizing the surface.

>>1933711
>I feel it is entirely possible to repair and use the dam without seizing the surface.
What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels? Or how have you figured this?

>>1933739
>What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels? Or how have you figured this?
You are aware that we have a tunneller that makes a airtight hexcrete tunnel as it goes, yeah?

Well it could get to there and between all the vaults no problem given we made a tunnel from the Divide for the MLA a fair bit north in two turns and could have our tunnel go from our Divide holdings and it's associated railway.

>>1933754
No no, water diverting is fine, however I dont think you realize how big of a project building the Hoover Dam underground would be. If water is all you want then yes, the tunneler can get it in a few turns (though Id argue that with our new farms we dont really need any more water for a while) but if you are talking power generation then that is whack.

>>1933739
>What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels?
Didn't SPI just scout the entirety of the NCR using tunnelers filled with assaultrons? I am pretty confident Hover am is within range.

>>1933781
Getting the power working is an issue though. We can reach the dam underground, but doing the reapairs wont be easy.

>>1933788
>Getting the power working is an issue though. We can reach the dam underground, but doing the reapairs wont be easy.
I agree with you there.

>>1933790
>>1933788
this is the hover damn right?

>>1933791
Ye.

>>1933767
I fail to see how it is based off my memory of the layout in game. Fact is that the generators are deep down in the dam in game and once the general shit (pipes un-blocked for example) is sorted and the chamber they are stored in is un-flooded / un-buried they should be easy to repair seeing as the generators weren't damaged during the battle, merely the overall structure, so we can examine them in detail and replicate their parts precisely.

>>1933781
A few quick calculations with a 100m head, 13 foot diameter pipes and flowspeed of 5m/s gives us 19 MW. That is shit all. Admittedly, I didnt wanna calculate the flow speed (complex and im drunk) but even if you double that to 10 m/s it still gives us basically nothing. Especially if you take into account the engineering required for this. Better spent on fusion imo.

>>1933164
>What does SPI know about Shi and Boomertown areas?

Regarding the Shi
"The Shi is a major area of industrial producer and consumer advanced computer parts. Given the number of encrypted communications, armored convoys carrying scientists and data, and the amount of resources and electricity being invested here. They have also buried the palace under a concrete bunker and layering of protection. I have reason to suspect this is the potential location of a ZAX or a high performance computer given the amount of data streaming in and out and the fact that I was not capable of adequately hacking into this data.

Something is. . .strange. I have attempted several times to crack their data, and just when I get close I am shut off as the code encryption shifts. It would take a computer of extraordinary power to not only calculate research data and encrypt and decrypt it but also completely change to a new encryption pattern at the same time.

I think we are not dealing with only one ZAX here or else this would be a cake walk. I think there may in fact be more than one ZAX in the NCR. Whatever the case this is likely the location of one, probably in the palace."

>>1933802
Then you are talking about above ground building man. And then you have to deal with the legion, meaning a whole other mess.

I am saying underground water is fine, underground hydropower is not.

>>1933805
>A few quick calculations with a 100m head, 13 foot diameter pipes and flowspeed of 5m/s gives us 19 MW. That is shit all. Admittedly, I didnt wanna calculate the flow speed (complex and im drunk) but even if you double that to 10 m/s it still gives us basically nothing.
QM said that Hover Dam produces TONS of power, i'm gonna believe his word over yours.

>>1933807
Fuck me sideways.

Main priority now, above any airfield or factory, is blowing those assholes straight up. All the NCR focus should go to dealing with the NCR ZAX issue as fast as possible. Whether that is taking over, allying or killing them. The NCR CAN NOT have those.

How did it hack the signal? Wireless or found a cable? Can she not copy a file and decrypt at home, not in real time?

>>1933818
Thats not Hoover, thats a 100 drop, ~4m tunnel of waterflow at 5-10 m/s. Basically around one turbine of the Hoover.

This is to illustrate that underground hydro is a shit idea.

>>1933812
No, we really don't have to deal with any sorts of "above ground building".

>>1933842
The Dam is above ground. You want to build in the Dam. Ergo, you are building above ground.

See where I am going with this?

But ok, tell me your plan and how the Legion wont be a factor.

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>>1933824
Both. It attached to a single cable underground, and at the same time trying to decrypt its radio frequencies and attempted to decrypt them here at BigMT.

The SPI did try to encrypt it here at BigMT, because the Subterrine does not have such equipment on it.

"It's very good. I don't think I'll be able to crack this manually. Maybe if I were to somehow get my hands on the encryption programming directly from the machine itself."

>>1933164
>Boomertown
"Boomertown was a construction project started by Yaunker before the fall of the Mojave, back when he was only the Secretary of War and approved by Kimball. It was originally slated to be a simple "observation and radio tower" on Mt. Lyell. I have reason to speculate Yaunker was secretly financing projects under both Kimball and Congress notice, long before Benny Shot you.

Yaunker had installed a double railways system to Mt. Lyell, connected to the NCR Capital and then to Angels Boneyard. Sometime after the rescue of the Boomers, they sent an expedition to Anchorage Alaska where they salvaged several pairs of massive artillery pieces built before the war (as well as setting up an Alaskan Colony). They dismantled these guns, and repaired them, and transferred the pieces as well as the ammunition by ship and rail to the mountain and built them in.

To keep the weapons supplied, much of the confiscated Gun Runner manufactories were transferred here and Boomers and several prominent weapons specialist groups were encouraged to live here. Boomertown is now a major city, producing and training artillery crews and artillery equipment for the NCR from here while also expanding the city.

I don't know if there are any religious connotations, but there's some sort of cultural tradition here where its inhabitants worship and revere artillery, even their homes tend to have an artillery piece built into them and they train children to be familiar with artillery before they learn to write. At least, that's what I heard from peering into NCR soldiers from a convoy leaving the place making idle chat. The mountain rock prevented me from actually going near."

>>1933847
>The Dam is above ground. You want to build in the Dam. Ergo, you are building above ground.
If a house has a multi-levle basement and I want to fix a pipe in that basement, I ain't building above ground.

The same applies here: we tunnel into the side of the dam (below the "surface" level) and into a corridor / chamber before clearing our way to the appropriate sections. Then once there we place a airlock in between these sections and the exits to the surface before re-seal anything that we think needs it, repair the generators and empty / fix the feed pipes. Then we just pump out the water (assuming it doesn't flow out the cleared pipes), restart the generators and connect it to whatever we want to power.


Before you mention the Legion hearing any of this, water is excellent at blocking sound which is why we aren't attempting to empty the dam of it. Even ignoring that in-game you can't hear shit from the outside of the dam when it is on.

Before you mention them, if they were to discover it, attacking or exploring, remember that the dam is a series of dark concrete corridors filled with water. No visibility unless you have night vision.

>>1933878
We really, really need to blow the ever loving shit out of that fucking artillery city.

>>1933878
No that's a cultural tradition. Vault 34, the vault of many guns.

>>1933878
Our ZAX cant decrypt segments at home? A saved code with no changing makeup? Ok..

And Boomertown is basically an artillery platform with factories? Any talk about secure areas, ammo depos or the like? Basically vulnerable spots where a nuke in the right place could blow the mountain into another Big Empty?

>>1933883
What about all the machine that are on the floor just under the surface? Cant get to those without draining things conpletly. And alot of the wiring and computer and stuff would be waterlogged and useless without beibg replaced. Its not all just located at the bottom of the dam.

>>1933883
The actual turbines are above water on the sides of the outflow canal. This means that any action at those sections can be identified. You have a point in that it would be hard to get to but when they understand that water is flowing through the plant and the turbines are spinning (and not as silently as you are hoping) they will try to find out. If they learn it is us we lose. If they blow the place up trying to get to us we lose.

I really see no way around this. If you want to use the dam you have to take the immediate area around it too which means Legion contact.

>>1933878
Parts salvaged from anchorage.

Fuck. We are running out of room to expand between the MLA, the NCR, and the Legion. We are trapped in a shrinking box. Portal tech makes that less of a problem, but still a problem.

We need to subvert a faction entirely like convincing the BoS that we are messengers from MechaGod, or carve a huge chunk out of an existing faction. The MLA is likely to be hit hard by the retaliation, we might be able to snap something up then.

The only other option is Sierra Madre or the north.

>>1933908
>The only other option is Sierra Madre or the north.
[spoilers] That was QMs plan all along. [/spoilers]

>>1933915
god damit

>>1933896
>What about all the machine that are on the floor just under the surface?
There are none based off of what I can see on the wiki and can remember. Even if there were, no reason we can't place them into rooms built off of the tunnel we used to get into the dam.

>And a lot of the wiring and computer and stuff would be waterlogged and useless without being replaced. Its not all just located at the bottom of the dam.
First off, wiring would be surrounded with a non-conductive material which, almost certainly, would still be there and even if it wasn't most wires are metallic so ignoring some minor surface rusting they'd still work.

As to computers, like that'd be a problem. Seeing how much better our computers are than pre-war shit we could build a room off the side of the tunnel we used to get there to store the various things needed to run it.

>>1933904
>The actual turbines are above water on the sides of the outflow canal. This means that any action at those sections can be identified.
Yeah no, I'm looking at IRL images as well as in-game and I don't see what you are on about unless you mean the actual "wall" of the dam. Which I'd point out we have no reason to believe is badly damaged given the Legion are using it as a bridge. So it's got to still be there for the most part.

>You have a point in that it would be hard to get to but when they understand that water is flowing through the plant and the turbines are spinning (and not as silently as you are hoping) they will try to find out.
They are silent in game and to understand that water is flowing through the plant would be an impressive feat by them given that they'd have no reason to suspect it and can't see the turbines spinnning.

>>1933164
>What is the percentile power production capacity of every major power hub? Which is the most vulnerable? Same for factories.
"The most power appears to be coming from a mountainous fortress near the city known as the Frontier. Again the rock stopped the ship from venturing too much further, and actually we sustained damage. Our periscope attempted to poke up into the ground and was destroyed by laser fire. Before it was, I surveyed a significant amount of laser defenses around the mountain.

The NCR's other largest power production stations, in order of sheer production output, are the Fortress near the Frontier, the Devil's Canyon nuclear power plant, the Moss Landing gas furnace, the Redding Dam, the Daytown dam, the Richland dam, the Shi palace reactor, the Gecko nuclear power plant, and the Barstow Solar Farms. These account for 60% of their power generating output, each heavily guarded. The other 40% come from small town gas burning power plants and small old world civilian style nuclear reactors scattered throughout various towns, as well as minor sources like geothermal and so on. Most of the NCR's small to medium sized towns are either low power consuming, power self sufficient, or produce in slight excess, with the large cities and the fortress projects consuming the most of the power."

>>1933908
The probably only went to the well known military bases,so the inland stuff is likely free.

However, youre right. Our best bet to take territory is getting out of our little bubble and fighting the legion. Theyre the only faction we have a chance against.

Once we deal with the legion, we formalize relations with the BOS, take out the MLA and swoop in for a great big war withthe NCR.

>>1933146
I just noticed, what are those Concentration camps and what do they do?

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>>1933933

>>1933951
Okay I think I see what you mean BUT, it's actually entirely so a non-issue because those sections aren't damaged structurally.

It's the main span of the dam that was damaged and everything else is merely suffering from wear / tear + water damage. No need for external labour so long as we can replace or repair shit.

>>1933164
>Where is High Command (the actual, not beurocrats)?
"I have reason to believe that the High Command is located in the Fortress east of the Frontier, based on the amount of air traffic, encrypted data, and military convoys leaving to and fro the place."

>Where does Yaunker live?
"Yaunker has not actually visited his home in the NCR capital for many months. According to reports, this is not uncommon for him, as the man is reported to be absent from the capital for extended periods of time.

Actual sightings of his locations are few and far between, only showing up on national holidays and celebrations but preferring to speak to his people by way of radio or television.

I suspect he is a very mobile man and does not stick to one place for a length of time."

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>>1933951
As you can see from the images, the generators are located to the sides of the dam structure on the outflow end. Since the water is fed back into the river at or around the water level down at the outlet the turbines, and thus generators, are above the water level of the outflow side. Ergo, visible to the eye. Also, if you want to start funneling water through the turbines you induce flow through the outflow pipes, which is visible. Thus the Legion can see the water flowing as well as hear the turbines (Bethesda didnt make the area with an ambient sound? Shocker! It actually makes noise, try any generator ever.)

>>1933963
Yes, bu unless the Legion repaired the Dam so it holds water at a high level again you are looking at reduced output (potentially far less). Also, if they see we are dicking around with it they may "agressively investigate" the ceiling and blow holes in the structure (worked well for them last time and all). Thus again we are face to face with the sportsgoods enthusiasts.

>>1933950
"I was able to detect large convoys of prisoners being transferred to these locations, which are surrounded by energy fences, minefields, and barbed wire.

Old Washington has only recently been pacified in the last few years, and there was a substantial tribal populace in the region. In addition, NCR reports indicate the Northern Legion has even more people than the South Legion.

Large movements of prisoners are seen entering the camps, and not leaving. That is why I suspect they are concentration camps.

I have a separate unconfirmed report about the North Legion as well."

>>1933983
Alright then, anyone else have any questions or can we move on to the turn now?

>>1933963
You say "water damage" as if it isnt one of the biggest problems faced in renovating anything ever.
"Water damage often means tearing out everything and starting fresh.

And it isnt like this is distilled water. We have to deal with silt and salt and algae getting into every nook and cranny of everything. Might have to remove all the logic controllers and sensors and guages and replace them, which gets hard to do under water.

>>1933972
So all signs point to the frontier being the actual CIC? Well dicks. If we removed Shi lands from the equation, would the balance of power shift in any meaningful way in the south? This includes the ZAX(s).

>>1933164
>Is Oddball in his casino?
"His actual room in the Casino is a trap, in an effort to either incapacitate you or frame.

Oddball actually travels a lot as well, though his movements are more traceable as he travels either by train or by armed convoy. He is currently the richest man in the NCR.

---

I have also located most of the people who fled to the NCR with him. They are working either as staff or living in luxury in Reno."

>What is the most secret thing it learned? Any big project (ion thrusters, more ZAX)?
I'm going to get to this once I get home again, need to brb.


>Where is the ZAX?
The most likely location for ZAX(s) are:
-Shi
-A fortress near Dayglow
-A fortress near the Frontier
-Vaulty City
-A fortress south of Redding

I cannot confirm if all or only some of these locations have a ZAX.

Not all of these ZAX's appear to be of the same caliber either. I believe the most powerful one to be near the Frontier, while the least powerful one is in Vault City and likely is responsible for a lot of civilian usage.

>>1933973
>As you can see from the images, the generators are located to the sides of the dam structure on the outflow end. Since the water is fed back into the river at or around the water level down at the outlet the turbines, and thus generators, are above the water level of the outflow side.
I can see that but if you go by the same documents you have provided there is nothing stopping us taking the water pipes and redirecting them down further until they are resting in the river.

>Also, if you want to start funnelling water through the turbines you induce flow through the outflow pipes, which is visible. Thus the Legion can see the water flowing as well as hear the turbines
Except those outflow pipes were covered by the water they release in FO 3 NV. So logic implies that for the dam, which they altered, to maintain any sorts of consistent water level and thus force, it must maintain the same flow.

>(Bethesda didn't make the area with an ambient sound? Shocker! It actually makes noise, try any generator ever.)
Yeah and they did a bunch of other things that don't work in real world physics. I'm willing to believe in magically near-silent generators (a fair distance away) if we are going to have shit like microwave cannons.

>>1933979
>Yes, bu unless the Legion repaired the Dam so it holds water at a high level again you are looking at reduced output (potentially far less).
To be able to function as anything approaching a bridge they need it to be fairly level with both sides or else anyone crossing with cargo is dealing with an incline that makes it harder. This means that it must hold a similar level at both sides and thus it should be about the same height.

>Also, if they see we are dicking around with it they may "agressively investigate" the ceiling and blow holes in the structure (worked well for them last time and all). Thus again we are face to face with the sportsgoods enthusiasts.
Well then we'd best not get seen then.

>>1933993
Jesus christ do you lack all reading comprehension? As I explained in >>1933883 we wouldn't be doing it underwater.

Algae, silt and salt aren't exactly problems either. We're talking a few years not a few decades here.

>>1934001
>"His actual room in the Casino is a trap, in an effort to either incapacitate you or frame.


Fucking knew it.

Gonna brb again. Post any additional questoins.

>>1933915
What about the south? Mexico?

>>1934003
So you want to take years doing things all sneaky breaky like, rather than taking control of the area and solving the issue in 1?

>>1934064
So the hell is your plan then for dealing with the vast army of the Legion? Also, I have no idea where in the hell you are pulling that statistic of years from. Probably out of your ass from right next to your head.


Fuck it, I'm going to sleep.

>>1934070
If we take the Mojave, the only real ways for significant legion to get to us is coming up from the 93 or down along the 15. Both of which are desert marches, and the 15 is a very roundabout way of attacking, so most likely they come from the 93, from the south. We can occupy and reinforce The Fort if we need to, or we can set up a for some ways down the highway. We meet them in the middle of the desert, where they are tired and thirsty form marching from Phoenix, and we would have a significant advantage.

You said years.
>We're talking a few years not a few decades here.

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>Somewhere

The sun beat down on the earth, the air roiling with heat.

Boots marched. Armor clattered. Banners fluttered.

Crimson cloth floated in the breeze, as the cohort marched forward. Drums beat, feet stomped. And yet not a single man spoke, even as up ahead the wall of barbed wire could be seen.

Grim somber faces on them all. Many of them tribals who but weeks ago had been pressed into service by Caesar, mere recruits. But not a shred of fear or an ounce of talk. They marched with purpose, and fervor.

Then, men at the front fell as the crack and whiz of bullets landed all around them, the ground bursting with clouds of dust. Even as at the Decanus raised the horn to his face and sounded the charge, in an instant he and the men around him were engulfed in an explosive blast and were no more. Shells from guns and rockets fired from behind ridges and hills landed around them.

Under this withering bombardment, a single unified cry rang out "CHARGE".

Into the hailstorm of bullets, into the clouds of exploding death, the legion men shouted at the top of their lungs ready to enter the gates of hell itself. Most of them would.

---

"Contact! Front!"

"Machine Guns, adjust fire for 300 years. Drop the beaten zone on em!"

"That's it, keep pouring it on em!"

"Hold the line!"

"Where's that ammunition?"

"Reloading!"

All across the line, NCR troopers open fired. Every man straddling a trench wall of barbed wire and sandbags. Most carried the new Belt Fed Assault rifles, longer to reload but able to unleash a hailstorm, others fired with the powerful .50 rounds, the recoil from the guns absorbed by mass produced advanced shoulder recoil dampeners. They fired directly to their front as the Legion closed in. The smoke and dust so thick they couldn't see the enemy, but suppressed them all the same.

They knew the legion could never actually be suppressed, only that if they threw enough at them, thinned their ranks, they could hold when they actually arrived.

---

"Brave men one and all. May their names ring in Elysium"

"The bear takes the bait. Now we pounce."

From behind a hill, a stillness was broken as out from the sand poured forth a host thrice as large as the one now being massacred. All of them wearing cloaks covered in sand, desert foliage, hidden in plain sight. Beneath these veneers were armor, powerful rifles, power blades, fists, and hammers. These were the veterans, lead by Centurions. The true horde finished from thin air, appearing up from their hidden positions in the dust and rocks, and silently rushed forward charging over the hill and onto the flanks of the NCR.

Like a swarm of locusts, they descended on the NCR's positions.

>con't

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>>1934649
The NCR fled, running, retreating. The battered legion cohort and their reinforcements cheered, firing at the fleeing cowards. In other days, they would prepare to take spoils. Now they scrambled to take whatever slaves, prisoners or any valuable intel they could.

The bear was growling. The wind carried the sound of angry roaring engines and treads, and soon it would bear other sounds from the sky.

---

Men loaded up into metal. Treads and rubber gripped the sand. They weren't the Brotherhood of Steel, but they fostered in themselves a pride in being armored knights of California. A tanker. The weapon that had turned the tide of war against the numbers Legion and the tides of mutants.

"The forward brigades have broken. Attack at Vector Charlie Six. Expect infantry presence supported by anti tank weapons"

"Copy command.

Drivers, into formation."

Tanks, the ancient old world weapon now brought to life, war machines of metal beneath the feet of the crew inside or carrying stormtroopers in their hull. An armored spear head was pressing forward to crush the Legion.

NCR infantry streamed past them, parting like water to let the tanks through, cheering them along or catching their breath.

They would smash the legions infantry like they had done a hundred times before.

>con't

>>1934003
>I can see that but if you go by the same documents you have provided there is nothing stopping us taking the water pipes and redirecting them down further until they are resting in the river.
That would mean renovating a substantial part of the facility. While doable I dont see us getting away with it unnoticed.

>>1934003
>Except those outflow pipes were covered by the water they release in FO 3 NV. So logic implies that for the dam, which they altered, to maintain any sorts of consistent water level and thus force, it must maintain the same flow.
If the reservoir was blown up and the water level on the outlet side is higher (compared to "normal") as a result of the water flowing freely we dont have a head and thus no way to generate power.

>>1934003
>Yeah and they did a bunch of other things that don't work in real world physics. I'm willing to believe in magically near-silent generators
The thing is that these are not a priority thing to invent. Much less waste resources on. It may be so but I wouldnt hold my breath.

>>1934003
>To be able to function as anything approaching a bridge they need it to be fairly level with both sides or else anyone crossing with cargo is dealing with an incline that makes it harder. This means that it must hold a similar level at both sides and thus it should be about the same height.
You are correct, however I remind you that instead of making a mammoth project to repair the dam they can just build a bridge. This means no reservoir (more water for farms downstream), good troop movements and a small(er) build project done in less time.

>>1934003
>Well then we'd best not get seen then.
Altered water flow, alterations to the building and spinning generators kind of tips them off. That is before patrols, which they most likely have, seeing as this is a major roadway for them.

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I apologize for the slowness. I'm attempting to accurately capture the battle I see in my head and put it into words as well as provide meaningful insight into the combat capabilities of the forces deployed here. I'm trying to find my own writing muse too

The scene played out on different corners of the front, as NCR's front lines were pushed back by a simultaneous assault from multiple points. NCR's Army Group Center was hit square on the nose by the Legion push.

As planned. They had fought the Legion for a decade now, and they knew their enemy.

Fighter pilots miles behind back in California scrambled to their birds, alarms rang out as men woke up from their bunks and loaded up.

Already Tank Division 12 was spearheading the counter attack, charging forward. 250 tanks massed in 4 battalions rushed to outflank, surround and encircle the Legion as they had done before. Cut up their numbers, divide and conquer.

Even as they prepared to encircle the anticipated legion positions, a furious bombardment opened up on them. Artillery salvo's blasted the abandoned positions, "Screaming Katy's" launched their incendiary rockets, lighting the area ablaze with flame. Their rockets exploding and the shards burning so hot they ignited anything flammable they touched.

The tanks rolled into position, and moved forward looking for enemy contact. . .and finding none.

A tank commander got out and surveyed with his binoculars scratched his head.

"Where the hell are they. These were our former positions."

"Maybe. . .maybe the arty killed em all?"

"Or they finally learned how to retreat"

"Quiet! Both of you. They must have dug in somewhere or moved on. We need to move out and-."

The commander was interrupted by an explosion coming in far from behind, and he turned around to see that the rear eschelon was bursting with smoke and fire. He put down his binoculars, he didn't need them to see what was going on.

They had been outflanked, not by the legion. The MLA was attacking from the north, slamming into their flank with their own vehicle divisions. Scrap and jury rigged vehicles, or some littte more than salvaged NCR vehicle designs themselves.

Even as they turned about to respond to this threat, around them they all heard a familiar roar, and saw that the desert had turned into a field of camoflagued legionaires. Scattered about the sands in their covering. They attacked from multiple angles, some launching rockets, firing AM rifles, and lobbing grenades at the division and many more heated up thermic lances and simple power sledges.

For the first time in many years, the unthinkable was occuring: the MLA and the Legion were attacking. Not separately as before, one after the other, but at the same time.

The tank division was only barely able to break off, and retreat. Without the infantry to support them they were too exposed and almost engulfed themselves.

>con't

>>1935761
Shit the tanks got out.

>>1934090
That is lovely but you have yet to explain how we are going to deal with their army, not where. They can manage to actually put up some level of a fight against the NCR's WW 2 level army but with kinda wolfenstein tech who have near equal numbers to them yet you expect us, who have so few troops that we couldn't have a single squad for every thousand legion soldiers, to hold the line? Insane.

>We're talking a few years not a few decades here.
Aye and I was talking about the build up of salt, silt and algae. Again, your reading comprehension is shit.

>>1934649
Hell look it this, you think we can fight against this? That we can hold the line against this?

>>1935378
That would mean renovating a substantial part of the facility. While doable I dont see us getting away with it unnoticed.
I feel that we could, given the tunneller and our robots. Anyhow, we would just take the existing tunnels and have them empty further downstream or in such a way as to be unnoticeable like encouraging the growth of plant life near them.

>If the reservoir was blown up and the water level on the outlet side is higher (compared to "normal") as a result of the water flowing freely we dont have a head and thus no way to generate power.
They crossed the dam moments after blowing it. The dam wasn't as badly damaged as you seemingly think. Nowhere near it in fact.

>The thing is that these are not a priority thing to invent. Much less waste resources on. It may be so but I wouldnt hold my breath.
Nor are many of the inventions in fallout like robot dogs or soft drinks that can be used as explosives.

>You are correct, however I remind you that instead of making a mammoth project to repair the dam they can just build a bridge. This means no reservoir (more water for farms downstream), good troop movements and a small(er) build project done in less time.
Ah yes, a bridge across the giant canyon on one side or across the giant lake on the other. Unless you mean they'd build a bridge across the dam itself in which case, please refer to two points up, where I explain the state of the dam in terms of damage.

>Altered water flow, alterations to the building and spinning generators kind of tips them off.
True. It occurs to me that the water, if they restored the dam or at least stopped the flow, would travel down the spillways which feed into concealed / covered tunnels next to the turbines houses. So we could easily make use of the generators by redirecting the flow, installing them into these tunnels or some combination there of.


>>1935761
Now, let us morn these brave souls who fought so bravely to defend their homes. A moment of silence in their name.


Now that that has passed, fuck yes. Take that you fucking NCR nazi cunts. Now you are on the back foot again and we can relax about your military pushes and shit.

>>1935811
>thinking we can relax because the NCR throwaway forces got BTFO.

I am guaranteeing you they have power armor infantry armed with energy weapons in their reserves. they probably also have verti birds.

we already know they have lasers.

it is naive as hell to imagine they are stuck in a WW2 mentality, that's just the cheapest means of dealing with the legion.

>>1935880
And tgus, all their infrastructure is dedicated to cheap ww2 tanks. Iy would take a while to reyool everything for power armour and such, which gives us time to do our things..

>>1935893
you do realize that everything we have seen is likely only approx 3/4 of their production capacity?

they clearly tapped their best workers and brightest engineers to assist the Shi and Maxon states.

ffs man they have original Brotherhood as a state. Combined with Shi production.

they of a certainty have an army waiting in the wings. it is equally certain that they have access to lasers, plasma, power armor and the like.

The NCR is aiming to conquer the entire continent.

so what can we do about it?

1) we need Sierra Madre. The Cloud combined with holograms and weather control could grind the NCR advance to a halt. Is it a gigantic problem? yes. Does it carry genuine risk of death? yes. but the rewards would be profound. moreso if we can capture Elijah instead of killing him.

2) Take the Northern Baronies. self explanatory.

3) find allies. real ones. The east coast offers a few options. Especially if we can subvert the BoS worship of Tech into a desire to join us in order to experience Godhead.

4)integrate the chinese. the division between communism and capitalism is a scarcity issue soon to be rendered moot. plus mothership

>>1935952
To attack the madre we need a land route, which is vegas and the mojave. Or we risk having legion harassing our forces as they move.

Agree on the baronies

East coast is an unkown right niw, and likely not in a position to be lending too much aid. Could probably get to the midwest through the reavers.

>>1935880
Like hell they do and even if they did, we've bought at least a few turns worth of time before they regain their ground.

>>1935952
>you do realize that everything we have seen is likely only approx 3/4 of their production capacity?
Now that I really doubt.

>they clearly tapped their best workers and brightest engineers to assist the Shi and Maxon states.
Probably but seeing as until recently most of the NCR had next to no technical skills that ain't much. A fairly large amount thanks to their scale but given time we can beat them.

>ffs man they have original Brotherhood as a state. Combined with Shi production.
The BOS who had went entirely into hiding or been killed and lacked any ability to make PA or anything else on that level?

As to the Shi, there you have a point but we lack too much to say anything about them.

>they of a certainty have an army waiting in the wings. it is equally certain that they have access to lasers, plasma, power armor and the like.
They have access to those things yeah but not enough to equip an entire army on the scale of the one they have with WW 2 stuff.

>1) we need Sierra Madre. The Cloud combined with holograms and weather control could grind the NCR advance to a halt. Is it a gigantic problem? yes. Does it carry genuine risk of death? yes. but the rewards would be profound. moreso if we can capture Elijah instead of killing him.
The Sierra madre is a mad man's dream. Our end game certainly but not an objective short term.

>2) Take the Northern Baronies. self explanatory.
Duh.

>3) find allies. real ones. The east coast offers a few options. Especially if we can subvert the BoS worship of Tech into a desire to join us in order to experience Godhead.
Yeah, not possible realistically speaking. We might be able to pull a few groups like the Minute men, Institute and Children of atom to our side but not the BOS.

>4)integrate the chinese. the division between communism and capitalism is a scarcity issue soon to be rendered moot. plus mothership
I've been saying that for months now and to be frank the benefits of fusion can't be understated given what we understand of the Chinese potentially being technically superior but technological less advanced. Meaning that they could greatly refine our present advances.

Not to mention the sheer number of people they'd most likely bring or the organisations and such we would be able to appropriate from them rather than having to establish them ourselves.

>>1936017
If your talking about our chinese, i really doubt they are holding out on us in any significant way. Talking with them wont get us anything special.

>>1936030
It's not a matter of them holding out anything on us but rather them acting as a separate entity under us.


Fact is when we develop new weapons and vehicles, the Chinese aren't involved and thus we don't get their view. Fact is that their government is still itself but under us and thus their police, their medical services, their education system and everything else is still separate and thus we don't get any of their improvements yet because we've never even inquired about them.

>>1936040
In that case it would be best to integrate. Problem is where to put them.

>>1936051
Well they can maintain the current arrangement for now.


Once we've started securing things in Montana, we can probably send them there.

>>1936012
we have subterines we dont need a land route.

>>1936017
we cant subvert the BoS entirely, but a schism would be more than enough.

the sierra is a necessity. every turn we let it lie is a turn elijah spends trying to fuck everyone. even aside from the superweapons, the knowledge of ARCHIMEDES, the holograms, theres a lot to gain.

we can tunnel to avoid the cloud, and the Legion. so while the MLA and Legion fight the NCR we can take the Madre and its secrets.

hell we might be able to spend a boon to take his defenses offline or subvert them.

>>1936082
All of what you say is possibly true but I feel I must remind you that boons aren't insta-wins. Merely they bend results to our favour.


Also, regarding the holograms, I feel that getting the NCR hardlight holo-doctor projectors would be more useful. Seeing as it is literally hardlight and shit.

>>1936110
whynotboth?

one is invulnerable to conventional weapons, the other can punch people. slap both kinds in a drone and you have a ghost of sorts.

>>1936124
Just a note, but we have samples of ELijah's hologram tech in the mountain. One of the labs has a prototype hologram just walking around.

>>1936130
i had not remembered.

combine that with VR interface tech, drones, and a stealth boy and we could project invulnerable soldiers from the safety of a vr simulation via a stealth fielded holo projection drone.

>>1936178
Well we would need mobile projectors like Elijah has, but they would be more easily to armour. than robot soldiers. Less moving parts.

>>1936194
Actually, we should use the hologram we have to develop something that shorts out projectors. Like the sonic gun does to shields. If we had a weapon that could "kill" holograms, one of elijah's main advantages is gone

Which reminds me, in regards to shields, the hardlight would work as a shield against most if not all forms of "conventional" weapons: bullets, swords, flame and so on. Only things like lasers and such might prove effective but studying the NCR projectors is the only way to find out.

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>>1935761
The vehicles rode the infantry down, even as they ran towards the NCR's second lines. As the NCR turned tail and fled, they were pursued by the speed of MLA vehicles. By now, all pretense of alienation between the Legion and the MLA had dropped as an armada of spiked and weapon tipped buses, cars, and other assembled craft began picking up legion warriors by the droves and chasing the NCR, driving wildly to avoid the counter fire.

When the NCR's air power arrived, they drove up as close to the Tanks at near point blank, preventing the level bombers and dive bombers from hitting them without also risking hitting their own craft. This also helped shield them from being impaled on the NCR's 88mm artillery.

Legion and Raiders alike leapt form the top of their vehicles and onto the NCR tanks and halftracks, trying to pry open hatches with thermic lances and welding tools. Or throwing burning molotovs or satchel charges on them.

There were grievous casualties on both sides, as the NCR tanks still fired, unleashing bullets and shells onto the MLA vehicles, who outnumbered them but were far less armored. Wherever they could the MLA sought to disable a tank by smashing its treads or immobilizing it, leaving it doomed to be swarmed later, forcing the crew to abandon it or make it their grave, while the MLA drove on and continued to pursue.

With the MLA providing transport for the Legion hordes, even if it couldn't carry all of them, they also brought the weight of their infantry numbers to the front. And as they rode they pulled out skinsacks filled with red blood and drank it until their chins were stained, pouring them into the mouths of the wounded, into the open bleeding wounds or injecting them with crude needles. The Legion felt their hearts pound, their wounds slowly close and clot, energy filled their bodies and rage to keep fighting. Those who couldn't get onto a vehicle ran, even in armor and in the hot sun, attacking anything the vehicles themselves left behind.

>con't

>>1936402
Well I think the war has stabalised for now. No need to worry about either side making much more ground after this push. The NCR has their massive defences and tech. Whereas the MLA-Legion union has their numbers and dark magic.


So I think that we should take this time to just get stronger by focusing on expansion into Montana and other shit north followed most likely by wherever else we can like Mexico, Texas, Florida and other such places along with off of the continental US.

>>1936504
I agree that things have stabilized, but right now, we don't have much breathing room around Our capital. I still maintain we need to take Vegas and the Dam at least for our current region, which also puts us in a position to better fight Elijah when the time comes.

>>1936504
It's not magic. They incorporated The Family a group of cannibals turned vampire. They can drink blood and heal like it was stimpaks.

>>1936530
Thing is we've never really needed room. Just time.

With these few extra turns we've bought we can get the non-fissile replication disintegration chamber finished along with a few industrial scale replication chambers plus enough solar arrays to power them as they constantly churn out more robots to farm, build, defend and work for us.

Time is our limitation because we have the resources and the ability and arguably even the labour, just never enough time.


>>1936531
True. Very true. But I doubt that that'd grant them this level of regeneration. Still, just another thing to learn.

>>1936556
Yeah, we can definitely focus on getting the cold fusion power, the brain vault and the universal replicators online now.
But in the long run...

>>1936582
In the long run nothing. Soon we will have Montana and elsewhere. Fact is that the MLA have no reason to object to selling us land and shit so we can do some Louisiana purchase shit if it comes down to us needing more land.

However by the time that space is a problem, I'd expect us to have gotten a portal deep underwater off the coast, meaning we can expand to the underwater volcanoes and generate geothermal power there (something we can do elsewhere as well if we really need to) as well as getting closer to Hawaii.

>>1936623
MLA won't sell us occupied land like that. Most of the land they actuually use. or is not claimed.
THe Mojave is the closest source of good shit for us, and if we want it, we have to take it.

>>1936637
>MLA won't sell us occupied land like that.
I see no reason why they wouldn't. At the very least I imagine they'd let us send out people through their lands which means we can expand beyond their borders and such.

>Most of the land they actually use. or is not claimed.
There are vast areas of desert which they can't use that we can. Even if all we do is sell them some electricity we produce from the region they benefit.

>THe Mojave is the closest source of good shit for us, and if we want it, we have to take it.
Sorry so your solution is to attack the now combined MLA-Legion force?

>>1936658
What the fuck are we going to buy land with?

Do you not understand that the NCR. MLA, AND legion are all in a giant land grab race to secure population and resources?

More so because every square mile could hold valuable prewar resources like a vault.

On a side not we need to restore the GECK factory

>>1936680
No point without the beryllium

>>1936680
>What the fuck are we going to buy land with?
Guns, fuel, ammo, food, power, medical stuff and such.

I mean we've got no reason to not ask them about it.

>Do you not understand that the NCR. MLA, AND legion are all in a giant land grab race to secure population and resources?
To be frank the MLA aren't. They are in it for money, slaves and fun along with getting the shit they need to beat the BOS / NCR.

>More so because every square mile could hold valuable prewar resources like a vault.
Yeah but such things are generally shit that has a recognisable entrance and I'd point out that logic is rather flawed. Given that the MLA should know just how rare they are given they've got at least a few under their control.

>On a side not we need to restore the GECK factory
Useless without a supply of beryllium.

File: MACRjDZ.jpg (453 KB, 1904x871)

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As the NCR fled and the MLA and Legion were hot on their tails, a new sight rallied the NCR forces to stand and fight.

The sound of a fleet of vertibirds in the sky, black dots approaching, landing from a distance and deploying their load.

A sound unlike either the NCR tanks of the field or the raucous revelry of the MLA's craft was heard. No sound at all. These vehicles were not powered by diesel or fuel.

The NCR moved now with a purpose. Not only to run from the threat to their rear, but to rally to the support they knew was coming. That always came in their hour of need, that always turned the tide. And both Legion and Raider alike had a sinking feeling in their stomach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Fw54YBFak

The great armored truck at the head of the MLA attack column was the first casualty. A mighty spear of blue light appearing in thin air, a tremendous noise from it cracking and burning the atmosphere itself, the truck crumpled and turned red, then orange, then a white hot metal bright as magnesium, the occupants inside long dead as the gas tank within exploded into shrapnel.

Lasers fired so accurately, the shots were falling in between NCR tanks. In some cases, in between fleeing NCR soldiers, the beams falling mere feet beside them but not harming them even as scores of men behind them were turned to ash or lit aflame.

The tanks shone and glimmered in the sun and their own beams. White, silvery metal shiny and polished like chrome, unlike the cast steel of the industrially produced tanks. They fired not shots, but a continuously delivered beam of concentrated laser fire a thousand times stronger than any laser rifle. Men, trees, and bushes did not have time to burn: they were there one moment, then only the trace of ashes the next. Their beams poked through metal like a hot poker through plastic.

The Ghost Division had arrived.

>>1936811
It takes a shit ton of small atms to buy land. And it isnt like any land is particullarly useless. Look at the map and tell me what land the MLA might want to sell for cheap. The legion won't. They hate us and enjoy having vast tracts of land as a matter of principle.

The louisiana purchase happened because France was done with North america, and wanted to offload a bunch of economically draining territory. You want to buy shit that is in their main borders.

>>1936859
>The Ghost Division had arrived.
Make or break moment lads, will the MLA-Legion advance pierce the NCR's greatest bulwark? Will they shatter against this last measure or will they power through?


My money is on the MLA-Legion.

>>1936859
I hope Niner lets us buy one of these bad boys.

>>1936863
>It takes a shit ton of small atms to buy land.
True, good thing I listed a bunch of other options.

>And it isn't like any land is particularly useless. Look at the map and tell me what land the MLA might want to sell for cheap.
Dunno, let's ask them rather than hearing your opinion about what a bunch of fictional people would be willing to sell.

>The legion won't. They hate us and enjoy having vast tracts of land as a matter of principle.
The Legion are willingly siding with the MLA. They aren't the legion as we know it anymore. However you do have a point regarding their use of land and shit.

In that regard however I'd point out to you that the Legion can't make use of certain regions that are unusable with their simple technology and that they


>The louisiana purchase happened because France was done with North america, and wanted to offload a bunch of economically draining territory.
I was giving a historical example of a major exchange of land between two nations. That was just the first one that came to mind.

>You want to buy shit that is in their main borders.
Well part of me did consider saying that we should "pre-purchase" the region to our south in return for letting the MLA attack from the Divide directly and shit. So we'd be securing more land on our main borders.

>>1936890
>>1936877
It makes me want to ruin the nice things the NCR has.

Who's down for buying one of these and reproducing a combat squadron of them for the MLA on the condition that they're only crewed by MLA soldiers who've undergone special surgery (see: loyalty augmentation and debrainification). Just to spit on the NCR's dream.

>>1936980
I dont see that plan ever working for a number of reasons.

plus we should really cut back on the amount of rape we perpetrate on peoples basic rights to self determination. just, yknow, sayin.

>>1936980
Nah.


Better plan is to, now that the NCR is going to be staying on the backfoot, begin supplying squads of artillery / AA robots and shit. Rear line fighters that have low death rates but would be harder for the MLA to produce. That way we don't risk our investment or involvement being destroyed or discovered until we are ready while making sure the NCR remains on the back foot.

However I certainly want one of these just to study the technology.

>>1937014
>>1937009
Aah oh well then. I guess we'll just have to sabotage their factories and steal what they have that's of worth instead.

>>1937050
Hey we got a behemoth off the MLA, we can get one of these too. Or at least the scraps of one.

>>1937014
If the NCR is on their back foot, no reason to help the MLA anymore. We don't want to destroy the NCR entierly after all.

>>1936980
Spite doesn't win wars. No reason to do anything like that.

>>1937165
Nah, we want to help keep the NCR on the backfoot. Still I suppose you have a point.

>>1937165
>All this evidence that's been presented lately about how powerful the NCR is and how easily they've been kicking the Legion's face in and how far they've come so quickly
>People still don't think we should devote our efforts to destroying the NCR, despite the fact that the MLA and Legion will inevitably infight afterwards making it much easier for us to secure power.

>>1937165
>>1937178
>>1937194
The NCR can afford way more space and losses than the others can, we should at least make sure their Ghost Division isn't going to be a problem.

>>1937194
And now they are not. THings are going as we want them to, and more interference is not necessary, unless we start taking New Vegas. If we did that, we could probably pay off the MLA with guns to let us take the dam and surrounding territory.

>>1937208
One defeat in one battle doesn't change the tide of war. This was a surprise attack that happened to catch the NCR off guard, and even still they're exacting a bloody price. Next time the element of surprise won't even be there.

The MLA and Legion clearly need assistance to make headway, and that aside they're preferable enemies to the NCR, and THAT aside we can make profit off of supplying the MLA. Why wouldn't we?

>>1937194
Yeah I mean, this is very true. Even considering the massive losses they are experiencing here, they've still got all their massive forts, their massive population and factories. Not to mention their airforce.

>>1937201
Oh aye that much is certain. These things'd be a horrifying threat to even us. However I feel we must not forget what this event represents primarily: we've bought ourselves a few months at least to focus on expansion in the north and building up more generally.


After this, depending on how things are with the MLA, NCR and Legion we can decide our next course of action but I feel that finishing all the shit we need like the Brain vault, non-fissile stuff and the fusion reactor is essential. However I would like to request that after that, we dedicate an automated ZAX / construction action to just constructing solar arrays in our lands and in the unclaimed region to our east followed by expanding the non-fissile stuff until we've maximised our energy intake and can focus our energy / replication abilities on producing machines of war. With which we can then push south and west into the NCR or anywhere else for that matter.

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Unstoppable.

Would that there were any survivors of an assault by the most advanced laser weapons designed by the most brilliant minds and the greatest funding the old world had to bear.

These were to be to the tank what Power Armor is to combat armor, the ultimate vehicular answer to the Chinese own superiority in numbers and build up of anti armor weapons.

The MLA and Legion fired their rockets. Not only from their shoulders, but from rocket buggies and vehicle mounts. These waves of flying projectiles were intercepted, and destroyed midair by a flurry of point defense lasers. Not just from the Tanks, but from special jeeps that rode by them, designated prime targets to fire with a very special digitally encoded laser that the smart computers aboard could understand as different from the myraid of laser bursts.

The tanks charged directly into the MLA and Legion forces itself, where they unleashed another nasty shock. Those point defense lasers didn't just render their missiles and bombs worthless, they could target men just as easily. Anyone who stuck so much as a head or a leg out needed to be hit but once or twice, and he became a writhing mass of flame.

And all their numbers and infantry did them naught. Even those that survived to get close enough to try and pry the treads and weak spots with their thermic lances and and weapons found another nasty shock. Glowing brighter than any of them all, a microwave tank radiated the air all around them, making it shimmer like the inside of an oven. Now even those who had leapt into trenches or hid beneath the wrecks of vehicles felt their body burn, incapacitated by the heat that they prayed to their gods would end. For those who could not escape this invisible inferno, it did.

Energized death itself walked through the combined mutant liberators and legionaire host, a scientific scythe of technological death, slicing through raider and legionaire alike as easily as it did the chinese militia and their PLA infantry.

And there was sinister threat that loomed overhead as well: drones. Flying drones by the dozens, launched from the tanks themselves, acting as the infantry support that they lacked. Bearing laser weapons far more powerful than the eyebots, acting as both point defense against missiles and infantry too, well armored and fast flying and in such numbers to overwhelm those who would dare shoot back. Not one rocket so much as touched the hull of the division, as it moved leaving a trail of death and destruction in its wake.

Behind them, the NCR forces watched in awe and regrouped.

>con't

>>1936781
Didn't we obtain one from a 100 result a few threads back?

>>1937331
used it in the fancy tunneler as part of the 100.

>>1937317
Huh, seeing how successful these tanks are makes me wanna research those prototype tanks in the Divide.

>>1937339
Darn.

Well, the Legion/MLA are getting their asses handed to them.

We need to provide them with better anti-vehicle weaponry. Probably something plasma or laser based, as to avoid the ADS countermeasures on the tanks. I'd have to be infantry-portable too.

To be fair...the new hover attack craft we designed for the MLA haven't made an appearance yet. Maybe they can turn the tide, alongside some dark magic craziness.

>>1937365
>Well, the Legion/MLA are getting their asses handed to them.
Isn't this part of their plan though? Bait the Ghost division then use the tunnel to surround and overwhelm them.

>>1937348
Yeah we really should get round to that sometime soon...

>>1937365
Railguns would be another good AT measure. Armour piercing and immune to laser counter fire.

Also, just a general note, for the Microwave tank to eliminate the infantry wouldn't it also have to hit the tanks and thus their crews killing them?

>>1937369
Yeah but I think they've underestimated the threat they are facing.

>>1937383
I doubt it. Niner seemed pretty aware of what they were facing. I think everything is going to plan.

>>1937383
>Microwave tank
The other vehicles probably have shielding.

You'll notice that the Ghost Division have no dedicated infantry support - which is odd for any mechanised force.

Railguns sound good though. We should research them as a priority next turn.

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>>1937400
DOES SOMEONE REQUIRE A LASER RESISTANT POWER ARMOR ARMED WITH POWERFUL RAILGUN WEAPONRY?

THE CHROMIUM GUARDSMAN STANDS READY TO DEFEND AGAINST ALL FOES!

>>1937383
>Yeah we really should get round to that sometime soon...
How bout Next turn we use our hero action to explore the Base more thoroughly and the ZAX action to research all the tank types?
>Yeah but I think they've underestimated the threat they are facing.
I am pretty sure Niner mentioned this attack was made entirely to deal with them.

>>1937426
Next stage of PA right here boys.

Also, and I know this ain't exactly a damming point, I'm looking at the description of these laser tanks assuming they are the "laser crusader" tanks from Command and Conquer. Their combat drone variants lacks any sort of energy weapon instead using a machine gun or a rocket and the wiki describes the tanks themselves as being inaccurate against infantry. Also, ignoring the presence of the supporting Avengers, the wiki says that the tanks can't intercept missiles with their lasers.


So either the NCR has REALLY been teching up this tiny portion of their army (incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly hard to believe) or they are very different from what the wiki describes.

>>1937400
>The other vehicles probably have shielding.
Potentially but OP has previously stated that microwaves aren't reflected by metal and thus they can't shield the vehicles realistically speaking.

>You'll notice that the Ghost Division have no dedicated infantry support - which is odd for any mechanised force.
They have drones. Faster, more expendable and so on.

>Railguns sound good though. We should research them as a priority next turn.
Especially given we could build some artillery pieces in the Divide and enhance them with rail-guns to allow us to hit NCR positions without risking anything.


>>1937434
>How bout Next turn we use our hero action to explore the Base more thoroughly and the ZAX action to research all the tank types?
Yeah that'd work but I kinda wanted to use the Hero action up north getting shit done.

>I am pretty sure Niner mentioned this attack was made entirely to deal with them.
Yeah and the Italians invaded Ethiopia with the sole goal of dealing with them. They almost lost there and I worry the MLA might lose here.

so i had an idea for a super weapon, but im afraid elijah might beat us to it.

use weather control to create a massive storm cell full of web lightning, then fire the ARCHIMEDES through it to create the planet's biggest LAER.

>>1937460
Why would he? He doesn't have weather tech, or archimedes.

>>1937467
Do we have a solid grasp on how far into the Mojave the Cloud has reached? If it's engulfed Helios One he might.

>>1937483
http:thumbs/1507216832204.jpg

The purple around the sierra madre is the cloud.

We need to reverse engineer the EMP bombs from the military base from the divide to be able to counter the ghost division

>>1937486
Oh, I don't know how I didn't notice. He's grown in the last few years. I wonder if he's grown complacent or extended too far to have the stealth countermeasures he did when we first tried to kill him.

>>1937499
Wouldn't work they'd counter their missile nature. Our best hope is to either out laser them, use HEAP shells, plasma or something similar.

That or we could deploy, say, a series of or even a single large nuclear explosive to somewhere we've lured them to fuck them up

>>1937507
Nah, Elijah is paranoid as shit and he'd have no reason to get rid of those counter-measures.

>>1937514
Or a Subterranean ambush, that's an option too.

>>1937531
Which is happening right now anyways, so lets just see the end result before planning what we need to do.

>>1937531
True but given how long they'd take to surface and shit it would be a far harder thing and would require we got them in a far more precise region.

Also an additional idea to help the MLA / Legion. If we continue to expand through the Divide to the north we will approach the front-lines of both sides currently or wherever they end up resting. We could construct some large rail-guns (to prevent the NCR figuring out where they are by the distant noise) to launch artillery shells into the NCR's lines and eliminate some of their advantage.

>>1937555
>True but given how long they'd take to surface and shit it would be a far harder thing and would require we got them in a far more precise region.
Does it really take long to surface? I thought we could have the vehicles hide just a little beneath the surface then they jump out into the fight at our signal.

>>1937555
They could probably figure out the direction they are coming from through, and if it's through our territory, they would get suspicious.
and they are watching us, especially any artillery batteries we build.

>>1937574
Eh, if we had Major's subterra robot-warriors maybe.

Fact is the subterrines don't exactly surface all that quickly as far as I am aware.

>>1937576
>They could probably figure out the direction they are coming from through, and if it's through our territory, they would get suspicious.
True but they'd struggle to follow into the Divide and more importantly, how would they figure out where the shells are coming from? They fly onto their targets silently and wouldn't exactly be too easy to track when the MLA-Legion forces start pushing as well and our artillery holes mix with theirs.

>and they are watching us, especially any artillery batteries we build.
Which is lovely but the Divide is covered in constant dust storms which even we struggled to operate in and only succeeded thanks to how close our command systems were and the fact we were under the dust-cloud cover.

>>1937624
>Eh, if we had Major's subterra robot-warriors maybe.
Well i am planning on making this think in the future.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Scorpion_tank_(Tiberian_Twilight)
Would it work?

>>1937634
Potentially but we've got more important things to deal with right now.


Like expanding as much as possible and maximising our energy income / surplus.

>>1937624
I mean it's artillery. It follows a set path. DIrection of the shots wouldn't be that hard to ascertain. It would be a matter of time before they deduce it would be our artillery battery

>>1937644
Which is why we need the Dam up and running. It would give us plenty of power to play around with.

>>1937688
>I mean it's artillery. It follows a set path. DIrection of the shots wouldn't be that hard to ascertain. It would be a matter of time before they deduce it would be our artillery battery
Again, I disagree that they could by any realistic means.

>Which is why we need the Dam up and running. It would give us plenty of power to play around with.
True but it requires betraying the MLA-Legion which basically kills us.

Ah, there is one thing that could be useful when dealing with the Ghost division, or any faction in general.
The BigMT teleporter, the one in-game that uses a lightning effect,i recall we researched how to replicate it long ago and that it can fit in a Vehicle.

>>1937701
Its an arc with a fixed -9.8m/s downward acceleration. Crater analysis and detecting the shell with radar can end up with a general firing location- enough to know it was us.

We don't know about MLA-Legion- Act quickly enough, we tell the Legion tough cookies. Give the MLA some goods to turn a blind eye to a little territory dispute and we should be good.

>>1937644
Expanding is secondary - we need to give the Legion / MLA a leg up in their war, otherwise it will be us vs. an NCR which dominates the entire Western portion of the US.

>>1937755
>Expanding is secondary
No it ain't.

>>1937749
>Its an arc with a fixed -9.8m/s downward acceleration.
Even a high school student wouldn't claim that has any accuracy in the real world. You are forgetting atmospheric interference which would be incredibly hard to calculate accurately when one considers the Divide's storms, wind, the aerodynamic properties of the shell and shit.

And even if, IF, they somehow did figure out the shells were coming from the Divide. It is unlikely they'd be able to actually do anything and even then, they'd probably assume it was conventional artillery and thus hit somewhere we aren't. Seeing as they'd have no reason to believe the shells would've been launched by a rail gun.

>We don't know about MLA-Legion- Act quickly enough, we tell the Legion tough cookies. Give the MLA some goods to turn a blind eye to a little territory dispute and we should be good.
And when they tell us to give all that shit back or else? What the fuck then? Oh wait, you have nothing for the "inconceivable" scenario that everything won't go to plan when you literally invade another nation and then say "Sorry, I didn't know you were allies, no-takesies-backsies, this is mine now!" like a petulant child.

>>1937755
And we will find it far easier to give them any sorts of leg up when we are larger.

>>1937836
It's enough for a rough estimate. And that's all they really need. Not like shells are going to be doing any loops. And when they find out it's us, they bomb the shit out of our city because its close to their borders and taking hostile action.

It's an idea. And it isn't like the MLA wants to play conflict resolution for other people. MLA would likely tell us to deal with it ourselves, and then we use the NCR to make space and take the legion's attention away. Give them a nudge towards pushing towards arizona so the legion cuts its loses in the mojave to protect flagstaff and phoenix and other places of importance.

>>1937882
>It's enough for a rough estimate. And that's all they really need.
Not when they are underestimating the range of the guns firing on them greatly.

>Not like shells are going to be doing any loops.
Shells could be made to do loops or any other number of things if it would get you to shut the hell up.

>And when they find out it's us, they bomb the shit out of our city because its close to their borders and taking hostile action.
IF, they found out it was us. Sure but that is incredibly unlikely.

>It's an idea. And it isn't like the MLA wants to play conflict resolution for other people. MLA would likely tell us to deal with it ourselves, and then we use the NCR to make space and take the legion's attention away. Give them a nudge towards pushing towards arizona so the legion cuts its loses in the mojave to protect flagstaff and phoenix and other places of importance.
I feel you are really underestimating just how much they give a damn. I feel that if we go ahead with this plan, assuming we only had to deal with the Legion's anger, we'd still be fucked.

It is an idea, just as a chocolate teapot is.

>>1937995
They wouldn't be underestimating the range once they realize the only possibility is from us. Also, the shells are going to be poking hole in the cloud cover, if you are actually shooting them with a rail gun, so that is real easy to spot from above. Like with UAVs that the NCR has.

It would be very likely that they find us because they aren't dumb and can do problem solving. If their initial range estimates are wrong, do you think they assume the MLA has magic invisible, teleporting artillery, or their initial assumption was flawed?

Look at the map. The Mojave region is a bit sticking out of regular Legion territory with 2 ways in or out. The I93 and the I 15.
Convince the NCR to push from the fort in Bullhead city to Flagstaff along the I40 and no reinforcements from the south to the mojave.
If the legion wants to get forces to us from the north they have to go around the grand canyon and skirt the border with Utah. Which would mean taking troops from Phoenix and Flagstaff, leaving them vulnerable.
New Vegas is separated from the MLA by the Madre, so we don't have to worry about them getting involved.

>>1938062
>They wouldn't be underestimating the range once they realize the only possibility is from us.
You do realise that the MLA could cross the seemingly friendly Legion and use their supermutants to sustain an artillery base?

>Also, the shells are going to be poking hole in the cloud cover, if you are actually shooting them with a rail gun, so that is real easy to spot from above. Like with UAVs that the NCR has.
I don't know how big you imagine these shells to be but that is essentially impossible and even if that were true they'd be looking for a hole at an angle though a massive cloud of dust dozens of meters thick potentially. Essentially impossible.

>It would be very likely that they find us because they aren't dumb and can do problem solving. If their initial range estimates are wrong, do you think they assume the MLA has magic invisible, teleporting artillery, or their initial assumption was flawed?
I think they'll assume that their enemy's artillery position is either well built or that they restored it to functionality or, and this is something you might want to consider, that the enemy artillery is closer than they thought and is in fact smaller resulting in it shots landing at similar angles.

>All that shit about the location of the Mojave.
Don't care. It's a retarded idea. It'll put us into a state of war with the MLA and Legion.

Also you are assuming that the Legion can't afford whatever losses we'd induce and that the number of troops required to beat us back is enough to leave positions, behind those troops, "vulnerable" when they've been managing to throw millions down the drain against the NCR for literal years now without issue. When the NCR has far greater numbers to fight against them with.

guys if we start shit with any faction we need to be able to finish it.

that means industrial capacity to produce approx. 20,000 robot units a month, with similar vehicle and air support. for years.

ideally I would like a robot army numbering around .5 million.

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>>1937451
"Holy shit, look at it. Holy damn am I glad I'm not the bait here"

"It's like something outta that space holo movie. The one with the laser swords."

"I'm starting to think this might not be a good idea."

"Oi! Shut it you lot. There ain't no turning back now. I'm the bloody Warlord here, and I say we're going to fuck em. My pal Six built the engines for these things, and the Dark Reavers put some high quality weapons on em."

"Boss! The Ghost Division's moving over the trap!"

Another voice barges in on the radio, a girls voice.

"Alright boys, it's just about time! Get to your positions now!"

"Oi! You heard Ma! Get cracking!"

The sound of propulsor jets rocketing off, objects zoomed through the air as the low leve fliers massed.

A deeper, less human voice spoke. "all groups report in.

"Warlord Bishop standing By"

"Warlord Niner standing by"

"Black Knight standing by"

"Alpha Basim, standing by"

"Professor Evil standing by."

"General Maddock, standing by."

"Hecate standing by."

"All groups reported in. We're approaching the targets now. Lock Jet Coils in attack positions."

"Fuck they aren't even over the trap? But-!"

"Well then we'll need to lure them over it."

"That wasn't part of the plan"

"Stay calm fellas. These bucket of bolts will get us through"

"May the Dark God be with us. . ."

>con't

>>1938129
Fucking star wars reference.

>>1938122
Agreed. Although I debate the need to have .5 million. Seeing as ours are so high quality unless most of those end up being things like assaultrons and we include drone craft. Anyhow, fact is for the next dozen turns we should just be focusing on churning out solar arrays and construction stuff.

Main point is we really need to get to work on economic shit and expanding where we can.


>>1938129
Fuck yes. On the other hand: holy shit this is dangerous please work out.

>>1938104
Yeah, except supermutants leave traces, or would be seen or anything. The NCR has air superiority. They see the battlefield for miles. If there is artillery fire, but no artillery, there going to be looking elsewhere.

The shells would be going up real fast. Hitting the clouds and pull some of it up with it like a needle pulling thread. That is noticeable. Would also be noticable with radar, so in the end, they would see it was us.

Except you said building stuff in the divide. So the fact the shots are coming from the south means it can't be the NCR, because that's us, and the MLA has no presence in the divide. The MLA building up artillery does not make the divide start shooting them.

War with the Legion only. The MLA wouldn't care. Its not their problem.
And vulnerable just means something the legion has to deal with. They won't lose, but they won't be able to ignore an NCR spear

If the NCR pushes forward from Bullhead, to the 93, then the Legion won't have an avenue to attack the mojave.

>>1938150
>Agreed. Although I debate the need to have .5 million. Seeing as ours are so high quality unless most of those end up being things like assaultrons and we include drone craft. Anyhow, fact is for the next dozen turns we should just be focusing on churning out solar arrays and construction stuff.
Can we actually? I recommended this a few threads ago and some anons agreed with me but we never did it.

>>1938161
We are putting everythign on building the cold fusion plant, which would be better than solar in terms of energy.
I don't understand what that anon's obsession with solar power is. We have better methods of power generation.

>>1938129
>My pal Six built the engines for these things
It makes me wish we'd given him more kickass engines.

>>1938155
Fuck it, if I get the chance I'm doing this plan but fact is that since I'm suggesting we do >>1938161, this'd be a dozen turns away. So we can discuss this much later.

>>1938161
We almost certainly can. In fact I was going to recommend having our ZAX take a look into optimising our solar array designs and improving the efficiency of our solar panels.

>>1938170
Solar power is passive and consumes no resources for us once set up. It is also reliable, consistent and entirely safe. Not to mention looking cool as hell.

Also, clearly we are finishing that fusion reactor since we've spent so much time trying to build the bloody thing.

>>1938170
I don't know what his deal is but i like solar power cause its cheap, fast to build and is a good use of all our land.

>>1938193
>We almost certainly can. In fact I was going to recommend having our ZAX take a look into optimising our solar array designs and improving the efficiency of our solar panels.
No, there are more important jobs for the ZAX to do.

>>1938129
C'mon! I hope the Legionaries taking a ride w/ the raiders is a one time thing and their won't be a Caesar's Dark Legion of anything like that.

>>1938220
I suppose. Could just use a normal research action.

>>1938193
We actually used only 1 action on the fusion reactor thus far. So we haven't built too much.

Solar energy is very resource intensive, lot of rare earth metals and complex electronics. For very little comparative gain. And fusion power currently only takes water, which isn't exactly a limited resource. We can probably drill into some very deep aquifers if we ever need more water.

>>1938262
Oh for god sake, your HIM!

Look, we built a solar array awhile back on the cheap without issue so I will say this again, for the last time, SOLAR AIN'T EXPENSIVE.


As to having the ability to get more water, not from our current lands unless you want to decontaminate the Divide rivers which would be an insane project.

>>1938269
>your HIM!
The guy from Powerpuffs?

>>1938269
It was cheapish, but didn't contribute all that much. Not compared to what the fusion reactor will give. In the long run, with how solar panels need replacing, and their pretty terrible efficiency, Cold fusion is much more bang for our buck. Also more secure, as we don't leave our power generation laying about in the middle of the desert.

And we don't need clean water. We can use the irradiated water in the fusion plants. No decontamination needed, and no taking potable water. No issue there.

>>1938288
You are comparing a small solar array to a large fusion reactor. Of course there is a difference in terms of output but more importantly there was a difference in terms of how long it took to build.

Also, we've had our solar array for 5 odd years now and maintenance has never been an issue or it is entirely automated. So you are talking about something that ain't a problem.

Plus a fusion reactor by any logic should need just as much if not more maintenance for safety reasons.

>>1938269
You are being pants-on-head right now. QM already stated that, outside "hot" fusion, cold fusion is the best thing ever (that we know of). Since it needs minuscule amounts of water isotopes as fuel we will literally never run out.

So no, as >>1938288 mentioned, solar has many drawbacks fusion doesnt have. We go fusion.

>>1938313
If he outright says that, I'll be silent. However until he responds to this post with a statement that cold fusion is objectively worse for the purposes of growing our power supply I won't.

>>1938364
Meant to say Solar not cold fusion. It is 2: 30 AM here, like hell I can proof-read my posts anymore.

>>1938364
>until he responds to this post with a statement that cold fusion is objectively worse
>worse
What?

If I remember correctly, solar was at the shit end of the list to begin with. This was back when the first argument over Fusion VS Solar came up and why we are currently building a fusion reactor.

>>1938373
4:30 AM here. Also drunk. Off to bed.

I assume youre british?

>>1938364
You really think laying solar panels across all of the mojave natural preserve is a better option than cold fusion?
Where it's affected by weather, and wind, and animals and everything else?

>>1938269
Your right, Solar isn't expensive, However Cold Fusion is worth the time and effort. Ontop of that, your not factoring in the fact Solar shuts down at night where as cold fusion can be ran 24/7

>>1938208
But it only operates at 50% potential because it gets dark at night..

Conversely, cold fusion works around the clock and is completely independent of the weather. We do get big dust storms at BigMT, remember.

>>1938380
Might've been. Can't remember.

>>1938395
Scottish but same difference.

>>1938402
Laying? No. Current set up expanded and replicated. Solar mirrors and central tower. Not solar panels.

>>1938409
Ours generates power during night time using heat energy gathered during the day.

>>1938440
I know i know, i've been reading what anons are writing about cold fusion.
How about we build some of those Small-medium Cold fusion plants that are fast to construct? We can use them to power new robot factories, war factories and Replicators.

>>1938476
That would work for me.

We should also design it as a modular system so we can mass produce a combination robot factory / cold fusion power plant. It would serve as the centre of all of our new colonies.

The one in BigMT has to be large though as to power the Brain Vault + NW's eventual defence grid

>>1938450
>Cold fusion
24 hours of production

>Solar plants
12 hours of sunlight to soak up to go through the entire night and repeat

Which is better?

>>1938494
Regardless, our goal right now should be becoming a proper nation in the fastest and/or easiest way possible, whether that's though assimilating what independent colonies remain in Montana or making robot factory-towns in our territory.

>>1938129
>"Oi! Shut it you lot. There ain't no turning back now. I'm the bloody Warlord here, and I say we're going to fuck em. My pal Six built the engines for these things, and the Dark Reavers put some high quality weapons on em."
>My pal Six built the engines for these things,
>tfw this is our only major contribution besides maybe selling some junk weapons, and their entire plan hinges on this. A half-assed contribution at that.

>>1938608
Any ways, that isn't good for us. We don't want our name on anything like this.

>>1938608
Niner is our topbro, even if he does toss the shells of former officers bodies to get fucked by mutant dogs sometimes.

Feels like a betrayal to not do better by him. He's always so goddamn positive about us.

>>1938608
Good fucking thing we designed them to look like shit but function like gods.

>>1938550
Dunno we'd need the per hour productions of both as well as knowledge of how much the solar arrays produce at night.

Then we also need to consider the resources put into constructing each of them in terms of labour, metal and such.

>>1938561
Agreed.

>>1938608
I did say we should make this design as good as possible...

>>1938608
>>tfw this is our only major contribution besides maybe selling some junk weapons, and their entire plan hinges on this. A half-assed contribution at that.
>tfw the half-assed contribution works.
>tfw we still have blueprints and can go all out on improving them.

>>1938626
Well He is a psycho-murder-rapist, so I'm perfectly fine with screwing him over.

To be fair, if the NCR's laser shit is working even slightly like it does in Command and Conquer, then planes are actually a solid counter. Assuming they are fast, long ranged and not using missiles.


These things ARE fast, it's like the MLA's Motto. It mostly depends on what weapons got mounted onto them...

>>1938656
by that logic Courier is a manipulative Mind Raping despot and deserves whatever horrible shit happens to him.

which is probably true.

>>1938656
That's because you've got no heart or soul.

>>1938656
>Anon doesn't realize we're in the same shoe

>>1938656
>>1938676
To be fair, both the Courier and Niner are entirely in the right in their ideological beliefs.


We are right, because we are working towards some perceived greater good / brighter future / better world and thus these sacrifices and atrocities result in less suffering long term in theory.

He is right, because his belief is that the strong should rule, will rule, must rule. If he rules and can impose his beliefs on others, he must be right because he is stronger and must be stronger in order to rule.


>>1938679
Also this. He's a bad guy but that doesn't mean he is a bad guy.


Like, a killer is a bad guy but that doesn't mean he is a cunt.

>>1938682
We don't kill people for the joy of it, or take rape slaves and institute slavery, so we're still several moral tiers above him.

>>1938736
>take rape slaves and institute slavery

>Take rape slaves
No we buy slaves, thus ensuring there is a market for slaves which drives slavers.

Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nation and plan on debraining them to ensure they can stay competitive against robots on purpose. Our slavery is abit different but its still the same.

>>1938748
>Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nation
You say that as if our view isn't best.
Is this gonna be the return of the Economic-Ideological arguments?

>>1938748
Its all consenual. The brains can quit if they want to, or go back into their body if they both want it.

It's also not slavery- just an economic system based on state control of funds.

>>1938770
Oh fuck no, I could careless. I just want that anon to understand we really aren't better then Niner.

>>1938772
>The brains can quit if they want to, or go back into their body if they both want it.
>Literally the only way to stay in a position that matters or in a job is to stay a brain in a jar

You don't seem to understand what strong-arming is, also are you really telling me economic system's cannot be used to keep people in a type of slavery?

>>1938786
>Oh fuck no, I could careless. I just want that anon to understand we really aren't better then Niner.
But i also think we're better than Niner.

>>1938608
Oi, we digged them tunnels and marked down good shit for them to hit. I'd say we did bretty good.

>>1938786
Of course economic systems can entrap people in effective slavery, but the one we have right now is not thaaat bad. Our people get leisure time, and get to make choices for themselves.

>>1938736
>We don't kill people for the joy of it, or take rape slaves and institute slavery, so we're still several moral tiers above him.
We've done two of those things.

>>1938748
>No we buy slaves, thus ensuring there is a market for slaves which drives slavers.
And there was a market anyway.

>Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nation and plan on debraining them to ensure they can stay competitive against robots on purpose. Our slavery is abit different but its still the same.
By your logic we can't have any sentient beings in charge of a nation because they'll have personal views. Also, would you prefer if we made people entirely redundant and just stopped caring about them?

Fact is this, we aren't enslaving our people nor more so or less so than any nation throughout history.

>>1938834
This, plus there is essentially no wage gap between the levels of our society and everyone has a good quality of living.

>>1938844
Anon's real point is that Niner isn't a cunt to us...but we've kind of been a cunt to him.

>>1938857
Essentially aye.

>>1938857
Isn't it more like we've been a cunt to the MLA and their dark god?

>>1938844
Kill people for fun? no, that was necessity.

Rape? the brain washing is pretty close, but it was for a purpose, and not just for sexual gratification or to abuse women or something.

Instituted slavery? not in any form.

>>1938874
>Kill people for fun? no, that was necessity.
Yeah and the Courier enjoyed it.

>Instituted slavery? not in any form.
So literally fucking with someone's head so that they must obey and come to love you isn't slavery?

>>1938891
>Yeah and the Courier enjoyed it.
I have no recollection of this, who did we enjoy killing?.

>>1938899
I swear OP has said we enjoyed combat at some point but I could be wrong.

>>1938891
Yeah, that Is kind a kind of slavery. We're pretty shit for it.
But We don't do it as long as we don't jump down the slippery slope and do it to everyone who doesn't agree with us, we're not MLA bad.

>>1938911
Enjoying combat is different from enjoying murdering people. One is being an adrenaline junkie. The other is being a psychopath.

>>1938868
>Go to see Niner
>He offers us his finest fuckslave, because he's just that bro
>We get pissed at his offer because that's our former officer

>Niner personally invites us to council of Warlords
>Throw a bitch fit at the gate because we don't want to take the same contract we did before
>"Well if he wants his guns they'll be right HERE."

>Niner wants some sick-ass engines and/or AA weapons or whatever of our amazing techbase we're willing to spare to help his guys out there dying in droves
>We give him a bunch of half-ass shit even though anyone with a brain knows we can build something 10x better than that
>Thanks us anyway and sends over a Brotherhood Behemoth they had to work really hard to get

>Riding in some junker hoverbikes
>"Oh shit, this isn't going to plan. Maybe we should retreat?"
>"FUCK YOU GUYS, MY BUDDY SIX BUILT THESE ENGINES AND WE'RE GONNA PULL THROUGH!"

>>1938919
I find it hard to believe that one would exit the experience of having killed a dozen people and enjoy it. Without being a psychopath or similarly disturbed.


Need sleep, see you all in like 12-14 hours.

>>1938923
I thought we just made it 'look' shit, not that it was sub-par or half assed?

>>1938923
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognize Niner as a real bro.

>>1938932
I'm not sure, I think we actually mainly just manufactured the things after receiving the blueprints. Either way, we definitely had the capacity to make them some seriously kickass stuff and didn't. Which wouldn't be a big deal except Niner's our bro.

>>1938940
Fuck now, I feel bad. I know I wanted it too look like total shit so that the NCR would think 'oh the savages just made new kit.' but i hope to god we didn't give some sub-par shit.

>>1938923
behemoth was for designing the hovercraft. the weapons got us some slaves and shit.

>>1938932
It's decent stuff just not as exceptional as we could've probably made it.

>>1938935
He is a pretty good guy.

>>1938947
Nah, it's probably fine. I mean they had their engineers do most of the designing then had us crunch the raw numbers for the complex shit like the engines.

Chances are everything is fine.