I salute you, fine sir.

Long and Short of it is that the year is 2017, and you can feature in the book!
Looking for:

Pilot Profiles
Squadron Profiles

If they're good enough, I'll put them in the fluff section of the 'rule book' I'm making for Air War.

Include some good Background for pilots, what they fly, what they specialise in, their quirks, etc. For Squadrons, what PMC they work for, or if they're a true mercenary, freelancing. Team Members, specilisations, etc.

As I add to the fluff world background, there will be opportunities to earn 'battle honors' by writing about your pilot or unit's involvement in the Universe.

Early 2013

Canada drinks beer, plays hockey.

I have no criativity at all, but bump for P&M

The New Design Document
Mercenaries and Planes: Air War C21 RPG Expansion

Advanced Pilot Rules
-What is a Pilot (Fluff/Intro)
-Pilot Generation
-Pilot Attributes

ROE Changes
-Rules of Air Combat (Fluff/Section Intro)
-Skill Checks, Modifications and Additions
-Altitude Rules
-Take Off/Enroute/Refueling/Landing Rules

Campaign Rules
-The Mercenary Life (Fluff/Section Intro)
-Aircraft Price and Maintenance System
-Aircraft Upgrades and Traits

Scenario/Fluff
-The World Today (Fluff/Section Intro)
-Alternate Timeline
-Famous Squadrons
-Famous Pilots
-Notable Air Battles
-Historical Campaigns

http://s1.zetaboards.com/PlanesAndMercs

This is a location for Planes and Mercs info. Feel free to sign up since many of us post there with some regularity.

Currently listening to the Cold War Crisis Soundtrack, surprisingly good music to write a timeline to.

Another thread Sukhoi?

Hmm i'll see what I can come up with as far as pilot and merc outfit backgrounds.

>>11271007
The other one saged and I had a nice picture to start a new one.

>>11270831
I'm still not sold on the LOLTERRORISM bit, if only because it's been done over and over so many times. How about: another South-Ossetia esque incident occurs, but turns into a more protracted conflict, setting the standard for proxy-wars in other... shit, that's pretty generic too.
There isn't anything I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't instantly swing towards either loltomclancy or lolmetalgearsolid. Feasibly modifying geopolitics is HARD.

>>11271028
Eh I'm still lookin at the other thread...but if we've moved on then we've moved on. And nice cover by the way.

Simone Werner
Aircraft: A-10
Specialization: Close Air Support/Ground Attacks
Quirks: Temper, Hot Headed, Overconfident
PMC: SIMA

Background: A quick to anger pilot who takes any attack against his honor or aircraft to heart. Often times chasing his target far into enemy territory with little regard for his life to get the kill. An impulsive pilot who will get the job done, even if it kills him.

Just brainstorming right now.

Does this mean we can make up PMCs to feature?

>>11271083

>ground attack pilot
>chasing targets

wat

I wish I knew the system. I'm an army officer with flying envy, i'd love to dream up some pilots.

>>11271116

super fast hovercrafts maybe?

Iunno, anon lost me there

>>11271086
Yes. But I'm looking for quality. Small units of four people struggling to get by in the harsh world of Mercenary wet work will go a lot farther than some Uber Squadron working for a Mega PMC tasked with North American Air Defense. If you've ever played Strike Commander, you kind of know what I'm looking for. No guarantee your submission gets approved, but it might, and if it does, it becomes Universe Canon.

>>11271248
Working on it these days, so hopefully there will be an alpha out soon for you guys to sink your teeth into.

For some reason the first squadron idea I came up with was a bunch of crop dusting pilots from the midwest.

When the economy tanked farming in some regions became untenable. With jobs in short supply some small time civilian pilots got themselves together, pooled what cash they could, and outfitted their Cessnas and Pipers with weapons in an attempt to form their own Merc squadron. Their contract was picked up almost immediately by a powerful mexican drug cartel, one of several currently in an all out power struggle for control over a large chunk of Mexico, and after a vicious two and a half years in their employ the "Tornadoes" had become a well respected all prop regional air force. Using a mixture of civilian light aircraft, medium transports, and vintage US navy Skyraiders the Tornadoes are known for their sudden "nape of the earth" attacks and their prodigious use "wheat cutter" fragmentation bombs.

Pilot Generation
These are the new expanded rules for Pilots. The original Air War C21 Rules only took a general average of a pilot's ability, which is fine for most games, but in the pilot centric atmosphere of Mercenaries and Planes, didn't cut the mustard. The new pilot abilities are as follows:

Sixth Sense: A pilot's ability to predict and interpret enemy moves, this is applied to initiative rolls and helps in tailing situations.
Handling: A pilot's ability to navigate through the Wild Blue, this affects how well a pilot can pull off bone crushing manoeuvres and other airmanship skills.
Gun: There's a fine art to slinging lead, and this skill determines a pilot's accuracy and precision with cannon fire. Affects both the Air to Air and Air to Ground cannon proficiency.
IR: Very useful to pilots who like being in a furball, the IR skill applies to the use of IR guided air to air missiles.
Radar: For the Interceptor, proficiency in radar guided weapons is essential.
AtG: Slinging Iron or lancing Harpoons, a good mud mover relies on their Air to Ground skill to get the job done.
Evasion: Considered by some the most important skill, evasion can decide between a successful mission or a smouldering crater.

Green Pilots Start off with -2 in all categories, 12 points to spend on skills, and 6 points to spend on an aircraft proficiency. Pilots can apply points of training to spend but cannot raise any category above Airman initially. Points can be allocated to skills even if it does not raise a pilot's ability to the next level, rather these points are banked.
Pts needed per level.
Greenhorn (-2): Starter Level (Rank Points >20)
Rookie (-1): 2 Points (Rank Gained 20+)
Airman (+0): 4 Points (Rank Gained 34+)
Veteran (+1): 8 Points (Rank Gained 62+)
Expert (+2): 16 Points (Rank Gained 118+)
Ace (+3): 32 Points (Rank Gained 230+)

>>11271381
I actually really like that, please keep developing it further, since I think that will become canon in one form or another.

On top of the Basic Skills are advanced feats/training that focus on a very specific subset of the game, such as stall recovery, flare use, Middle Eastern Weaponry, bargaining, etc.

So a pilot can become very good at doing one task, very easily, or, can spend points on skills, to become good at many tasks, but at a slower advancement rate.

Hope that makes sense.

>>11271430

Ok. That was just a quick blurb obviously. I'll take it and run with it if you're actually interested in seeing it progress to something more refined. And honestly its one of the ways I see a lot of early merc units getting started.

1) Government authorizes formation of merc units.
2) Offers of employment double or triple and come out from under the radar now that merc work has become at least semi legit.
3) People see an opportunity to earn cash in a bad economy and to be able to "strike back" at the cause of their "problems".
4) Civy squadrons like the Tornadoes form and become the bread and butter of the merc forces.

>>11271086

Name: Four Leaf Security Solutions
Corporate Office: Cork, Ireland
Company President: Michael O'Leary
Company Biography: Started in 2015 to augment the Irish Defence Forces, Four Leaf Security Solutions was started by former Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary in response to a growing need for aerial forces in a country where defence was not a priority in the public consciousness. Operating outside an airfield in Cork, FLSS primarily operates the Dassault Mirage 2000, Panavia Tornado ADV and the Lockheed Martin F-16. For foreign deployments, the aircraft may change depending on the mission requirements.

That acceptable format?

>former Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary

Oh nice connection to a legit business. And I could totally see small airlines like Ryanair converting over to merc units in a world like this.

>>11271515
That and discharged military officers, or even break away squadrons from failing governments looking to support themselves and their families. (No pension for me? Fine, no Plane for you.)

>>11271537
It's a good start, don't worry too much about format initially. The best submissions will be ones with strong characterization in them. Flesh it out some more, you're heading in the right direction.

Goldrush Squadron

Goldrush squadron are part of Silver Security Concerns air compliment, and like the rest of the fledgling PMC operate from the Cargo Ship Atlantic Conveyor, which was raised after it was sunk by Argentine forces during the Falklands War, and was refitted to allow for the launching of standard Carrier Planes as well as VTOL equipment.

SSC maintain strong ties to both the UK and various South American countries, and has a somewhat diverse mix of assets as a result, Gold Squadron is no exception. Goldrush squadron is primarily used in Air Cap and Interception roles, and includes a prized pair of Mig-29K's designed for Carrier Op's and a pair of BAE Hawk T1's.

To date Goldrush Squadron has flown four missions, all for the Peruvian government, only two of which resulted in hostile engagements. Once over Nicuragua and the other over the Panama canal, protecting a Pervian asset in a joint Op with SSC ground personel.
In both instances, Goldrush Squadron handled themselves admirably.

>>11271574

I figured with a global economic downturn, people won't really be wanting to fly so it makes sense that certain businesses would be cutting people. I'm going for a run. I'll see what else I can come up with after that. Right now I'm looking at the FLSS buying the RAFs leftover Panavias after the Eurofighter replaced them. Keeps it all in a roughly real world continuity thing.

>>11271515
Well, there's a number of old cliches that we could turn to in a pinch:
- political non-interference and increasing capital of global corporations increase need for personalized security forces
- non-governmental or suitably black-op prototype in live-fire testing
- "Red Cell"-esque governmental teams which carry out attacks on their own country in order to test the effectiveness of a particular installation's security

>>11271062
>loltomclancy or lolmetalgearsolid
there is another scenario that actually revolves around planes, that being, of course, ace combat. Now since sukhoi's making an original canon, Strangeverse rules need not apply, but there are quite a number of thematic elements that might make the game more interesting:
- All of the major structures and weaponry of the major nations (Osea, Yuktobania, Usea, etc) are produced to deflect an oncoming asteroid. Thus we have Eurusia's massive ICBM missile base "Megalith", Estovakia's "Chandelier" Rail Cannon, the combined Osean-Yuktobanian "Stonhenge Turret Network", Yuktobania's massive submarines Scinfaxi and Hrinfaxi, and Osea's orbital space laser system "SOLG" and its laser-cannon carrying Arkbird.
Now, *all* of this proved quite futile and the asteroid still broke up and struck. While only a some 500,000 people were killed, the ensuing chaos (from both the economic damage of the fallout as well as sheer amount of money devoted to the useless asteroid killers) sparked world-wide conflict.

>>11271949

Hmm...kind of a fun idea i must admit.

Army officer with pilot envy here.... being bored.

“Werewolf”
Henry “Hank” Lloyd
Born: 30APR1980
Origin: South Africa.
Born to a Rhodesian SAS veteran who resettled in S. Africa after the bush war ended in 1980, Hank was raised in a middle class family and saw the end of apartheid. In 1998 he started college at University of Washington and joined the US Airforce ROTC program, graduating in 2002 with a Bachelor's of Science in Mathematics and a Commission as a pilot in the USAF. From 2004-2008 he flew F-22s at Holloman AFB, and was an assistant instructor for the Luftwaffe in their Tornado flight school at Halloman from 2006-2008. In 2008 he transferred to Edwards AFB and test flew a few aircraft until a chance encounter with a contractor got him a job at NASA where in 2010 he test piloted a canceled secret replacement for the space shuttle, which he deemed a complete monstrosity, and to the frustration of his contractor friends, he recommended the discontinuation of the project. Later that year, Lloyd was caught sleeping with a Russian model, who was the wife of a Lockheed official, and was chaptered out of the airforce on several trumped up UCMJ charges. He took his trade to the open market flying for Syria and Sierra Leone. He lives today as an international playboy, and most often resides in Monaco, where his all nighter gambling scotch fueled benders have earned him mighty debts and mighty legends.

>>11271949
How about a Sugrazing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungrazer?useskin=monobook) rocky comet. Swings around near to the sun, massive venting results in both the loss of it's outer ice layer (leaving a handful of sooty cores), and a large change to it's orbital path. The remaining chunks of rock are almost undetectable, especially as they're flying right out of the sun to any cameras on earth or in earth orbit. Even a light peppering of fragments around the equator would be pretty devastating.

By 2017, my guess in this timeline, PMCs are hired as Air Forces when required. Aircraft manufacturers are allowed to sell short batches to whomever can come up with the money.

It's not super realistic, but it's meant to be fun. And the alternate timeline is just there for people who want something pulpy and different.

Will the UN still be present in this setting? I'd assume it's shattered, but does it still do peacekeeping missions and suchwhat?

"Black Bananas"
A group of ex-RAF pilots specialising in low-level and anti-shipping. Prefer to fly renovated Blackburn Buccaneers (S.2B base with the S.50's RATO capability) and SEPECAT Jaguars (GR3A). Based out of Gibraltar, typically operating missions in the Mediterranean and over Africa.

>>11271949

Best way to handle modern politics is to balkanize everything. So long as one security council member blocks their entry to the U.N, they're effectively an international non-entity.

Russian breakaway states that can't be recognized by the UN due to Russian veto power.

Fragmentation of South East Asia's countries into China-backed and China-hostile micro-states.

African Economic Pact formed to pool resources to Africa's limited manufacturing. Nigeria and South Africa pillage the Pact for resources, bankrupting the lesser member states, leading to revolutions and even greater instability.

United States protectorates, like Costa Rica, defect to local power blocs in an attempt to leverage their relatively high wealth into a dominant position.

Israel gets involved in yet another Middle-East war, Facing off against almost everyone in the area, except for Turkey and Egypt, redrawing the borders of the area on a day-to-day basis.

Here's a slightly more fleshed out version of the Tornadoes. I still need to come up with a good bio on its leader, Michael "Corncob" Chambers.

The Tornadoes are one of the many "grass roots" mercenary air forces that formed shortly after the passing of Bill 804 in 2012. Many outfits only lasted a few months at best but the Tornadoes were one of the few that managed to scrape by and actually make a living for themselves. Indeed they are one of the few "grass roots" units still thriving today.

The Tornadoes were started by an intrepid Mid West crop dusting pilot by the name of Michael "Corncob" Chambers in late 2012. With the economy in ruins government farming subsidies dried up or disappeared into the pockets of regional bureaucrats. With no government help farmers often found it impossible to make ends meet and entire farming regions were forced to declare bankruptcy. Local citizens banded together to form farming cooperatives as well as regional militias to keep people fed and protected. Michael Chambers took this idea a step further and gathered small time pilots, mostly crop dusters like himself, from across five states into what he called the Mid West Air Defense Coalition. He quickly found his newly formed squadron grounded though due to lack of funds.

>>11272907

The passing of Bill 804 breathed new life into Chambers and his bush pilots. The group quickly applied for and was granted a Private Military Contractors License. Within a week the group was approached by a Mexican drug cartel itching to get its hands on some form of air power to one up its competitors in what was then called the Mexican Drug Wars. After negotiating payment and access to whatever weapons the cartel could provide Michael Chambers and his newly renamed Tornadoes headed south.

Two years later the Tornadoes emerged from the Central American bush a competent back water fighting force. Using a combination of light civilian aircraft, medium cargo aircraft, and a pair of refurbished US Navy Skyraiders the Tornadoes became well known for their daring low level surprise attacks and for their heavy use of "Daisy Cutter" fused Mark 81 Snakeye bombs. They are currently the highest rated low intensity, or "grass roots", merc outfit in the western hemisphere. Their roster currently includes a trio of Pilatus PC-6 Turbo Porter Gunships, two De Havilland Buffalos, four refurbished A-1H Skyraiders, and a pair of OV-10 Broncos as well as numerous light civilian aircraft.

This is probably gonna sound terrible, but what the heck...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: Errol “Lambchop” Lambert
DOB: 3/5/1982
Nationality: British
Aircraft: IAI Kfir (possibly a Dassault Mirage 5)
Occupation: Journalist, Freelance Mercenary Pilot

Brief History:

Formerly a journalist for a leading aeronautics magazine, Errol Lambert made a name for himself covering the airwars of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the South-Otessia conflict, and several other conflicts, as well as a string of "reviews" of various warplanes of all generations which he somehow managed to obtain test flights of.

Mr. Lambert's path from mere journalist to mercenary pilot began in mid 2014 when, determined to get the story of a lifetime he showed up at the doorstep of a moderately successful PMC group with little more than an assumed name, an aging F-5E Tiger II, a few Vietnam era surplus sidewinders and a whole lot of fast-talk.

>>11272944
The fast-talk worked and the next 6 months saw Lambert flying as a wingman for the company. While a moderately talented pilot and acrobat, Lambert initially proved a poor combat pilot, but he survived (barely some would say) and gradually improved, eventually achieving ace status. However his success was mixed. His strained relationship with his partners, originating from ethics issues, came to a head when “Mercs and Planes: An Aerial Soldier of Fortune spills the beans on the dangerous world of Mercenary Air Squadrons!” was published in early 2015, chronicling the events and actions of a single PMC.

The feature article released to extremely mixed reviews, some called for a pulitzer, some called the author a monster, decrying any journalist who would become a “cold blooded killer” for the sake of a story. Either way the article quickly won quite Lambert quite a bit of recognition... and a sidewinder to his jet exhaust from his “comrades”, who quickly labeled him a “Traitor”. His story about them hadn't been entirely positive, especially regarding that incident with the civilian airliner over Chile only a month previous.

Fortunately for himself Lambert managed to safely eject from his wrecked Tiger II and with a declaration of “I never liked those bloody bastards anyways” dusted himself off, bought a new warplane and went freelance, both as a pilot and a journalist, as he continues to submit the occasional review on aircraft and aircraft armaments.

>>11272956

Beginner stats:

Sixth Sense: -1
Handling: +0
Gun: -1
IR: -2
Radar: -2
AtG: -2
Evasion: -1
(12 Points)

Aircraft Proficiency: F-5 Tiger

Veteran Stats:
Sixth Sense: +1
Handling: +1
Gun: +0
IR: +0
Radar: -1
AtG: +0
Evasion: +1
(62 Points)

Aircraft Proficiency: F-5 Tiger, IAI Kfir

------------------------

A very loose kludging of my default Crimson Skies character with a journalist aspect. Dunno if I like it or if it seems too silly/out of place.

>>11272192
the thing I most like about an asteroid/comet event is that it simultaneously forces the richer nations to spend enormous sums of time, money, capital, and effort to produce pretty planes and tech while at the same time time/money/capital, plus any damage from just a few shards of the asteroid hitting, can cause massive destabilization, leading to a need for private contractors if not conventional war. It opens up the possibilities for smaller non-affiliated nations to go on a power-hungry territory grab. If even one extremist/liberal/conservative element could commandeer one of the asteroid-destroying facilities, world-wide power balances could be shifted overnight.
Of course, none of that really matters. I, for one, am really interested to play test this

It's all been sounding good. Ideas I really like will be included, although I reserve editing rights as always.

I apologize for not having a better timeline for you all yet.

If no one minds I'll dump a few ace combat pics. Inspiration, maybe?

>>11273085
oh there's nothing to apologize for at all. It's your project. I just like pretty planes

>>11270831
>Russia responds with a crippling bombing campaign on Chinese hackers exploit the chaos to raid the federal banks and stock exchanges of major countries, leading to worldwide financial chaos.
You accidentally an end of a sentence there.
>Chinese hackers...raid the federal banks and stock exchanges of major countries, leading to worldwide financial chaos.
Dang Reds! Infinity money from hacking the Internet!

>>11273274
hmmm, it does sound a bit Live Free or Die Hard, doesn't it. Oh well

>>11273274
ORANGE AND BLUE CONTRAST

>>11270939

>>11273274
USA here

lol UN gives us cash!

>>11271949
Granted, the Chandelier wasn't even used on the asteroid. Emmeria and other nations banded together and decided "the threat of evil was too great."

This led to many chunks of that asteroid hitting Estovakia, setting Ace Combat 6 in motion.

Why does Google Images fail to show me the Chandelier.

>>11273357
GLA here. We always find a market.

Only $8 from the Black Market comes from weapons. $12 comes from camels.

>>11273400
IIRC the Chandelier wasn't completed in time because of lolpolitics and lolnomoney

Pilot Feats:
As a pilot progresses through their career they generally learn to get the most out of their aircraft, sometimes pushing or even breaking through the manufacturer's published capabilities for a given system. Feats can be purchased with experience points or training points.

Perfect Flare. +1 to Landing Rolls (2pts)
I'm on a Boat! +1 to all Carrier Operation Rolls (2pts)
Three Wire Ace +1 to Carrier Landing Rolls (Can stack with Perfect Flare) (2pts)
Chaffmaster. +1 to Radar Evasion when deploying Chaff (3pts)
Tail on Fire. +1 to IR Evasion when deploying Flares (3pts)
Slippery Target +1 to Split S and Break Turn Manoeuvres (4pts)
Bad Attitude +1 to High Yo Yo and Immelman (4pts)
Do a Barrel Roll +1 to Barrel Roll/Barrel Roll and Turn Manoeuvres (3pts)

I'm outta here +1 to ejection rolls (2pts)

Born in the USA: +1 to all handling checks when flying US aircraft (4pts)
U-S-A! U-S-A! +1 to all US manufactured AAM (3pts)
+1 Lock to all US manufactured ASM (3pts)

+1 Handling to all Soviet Bloc manufactured Aircraft (4pts)
+1 Lock to all Soviet Bloc manufactured AAM (3pts)
+1 Lock to all Soviet Bloc manufactured ASM (3pts)

+1 to handling checks while flying European manufactured aircraft (4pts)
+1 Lock to all European manufactured AAM (3pts)
+1 Lock to all European manufactured ASM (3pts)

US Components, Russian Components, All Made in Taiwan: +1 to Rest of World Manufactured aircraft (4pts)
Best of the Rest +1 to Rest of World Manufactured AAM (3pts)
Third World Delivery +1 to Rest of World Manufactured ASM (3pts)

Cold Warrior +1 to handling checks when flying aircraft made prior to 1975 (4pts)

Iron Sniper: +1 to unguided munition rolls (3pts)

Mach Hunter +2 to Maximum Aircraft Speed (2pts)
Slow and Steady -1 to Min Aircraft Speed (3pts)
Nose Down, Power Out: Recover from stall on 2+ on 1d6 instead of 4+ on 1d10 (2pts)
They'll fly right by us! +2 Dec per phase (3pts)
Burner Bastard: +1 to aircraft Acc2 (3pts)
Scope Jockey: +1 to Radar Spot checks (Not applied if aircraft has the RIO trait) (2pts)
Mk1 Eyeball: +1 to Spot checks (2pts)
Overloaded: The Pilot can add 2 additional load points to an aircraft, although the aircraft will always count as heavily loaded until the extra ordnance is dropped. (2pts)

That's what I have so far. Going to add a lot more of course.

>>11273484
>Do a Barrel Roll +1 to Barrel Roll/Barrel Roll and Turn Manoeuvres (3pts)
are you going to put this picture in there somewhere?

>>11273450
Yes, the politics, which I said.

I'm glad they finished it and configured it to fire missiles into Emmeria. Got revenge on those jerks.

>>11273497
>All Made in Taiwan: +1 to Rest of World Manufactured aircraft (4pts)
Funnily enough, one of my friends who did his military stint as an engineer of some sort for a Taiwanese Indigenous Defense Fighter (IDF) says that most Taiwanese refer to it as IDF: I Don't Fly.

Costing out the ability list is preliminary of course.

>>11271062

Just a slight change, as I refine this.

>>11271062 and following posts re: setting

I'm not entirely keen on the future setting or nuclear war either. The most compelling thing about Steve's campaign is that it is so nearly the real world.

What about a small deviation in our past that makes for an alternate history? For example- following the tank putsch in Chile, certain elements in the Allende government (not to mention DGI and KGB attachments) realize the military is not to be trusted and creates a small task force of retired air force pilots. A few SU-17 and a few MiG-21. When the coup is attempted in September these jets fight back for the socialists and result in a sudden escalation of the war. In time dubious-legality volunteer forces become contractors and get involved in all kinds of proxy wars.

There- we have forty years of Planes and Mercs, giving us access to four successive decades of airframes in their prime, and all kinds of conflict, past present and future.

>>11273932

I like Steve's campaign for what it is, a brilliant play on real world events. But that's a very limited game world, since very few PMCs apparently operate in it. Most of their foes are local forces, not private operators.

I'm thinking a more Shadowrun/Crimson Skies with Jets here, mercenary groups forming around strong leaders, living and dying in pursuit of glory and money.

Not the most realistic, I'll admit, but if it 'kind of could happen' then it leads to rich potential for future storytelling and allows for a near endless source of Squadron formations.

>>11274020
Oh I wouldn't suggest trying to ape Steve's campaign exactly. I am definitely for a world with lots of PMCs.

But I think an alternate history that leaves a possibility for jet-wielding PMCs in the 1990s, 1980s, 1970s, etc is important because it gives us access to lots of cool conflicts, not to mention situations where historical planes are not dismissed as relics, and indeed may be highly competitive

>>11274103
I see older models as being highly competitive due to their low price. For startup mercs, they represent a good investment initially.

The reason I didn't break from reality earlier than 2010 is that I don't want to re-write years and years of earth history. Making up stuff from the present forward is easier.
I am considering re-writing the Iraq War (2) to have the Americans overextend into Iran at the same time, which then leads into the same situation in the further timeline, but lets me start earlier, allowing a 16 year rise of PMCs vs a 7 year rise.

In fact we could even take the current setting fluff- which is, after all, quite good anyway- and just change the catalyst to the Six Day War or Yom Kippur, and trade Iran for any number of Soviet-aligned Islamic baddies of the day. Really frees up a lot of years for things to happen in.

>>11274170
Sorry, I'm a slow responder.

This is reasonable- after all, it is your work- though I really don't think history needs to be re-written beyond a perfunctory note that private air forces were involved in various conflicts that GMs and their groups may or may not care to flesh out, according to their own imagination, in a campaign

>>11274248
I don't mind any ideas, in fact with your prodding, I'm re-writing the fluff to start in 2001, the catalyst for PMCs being the US action in Iraq. The whatif is continued US overextension into neighboring countries.

If you want to write a second timeline I have no problem with it at all, or even better, specific missions taking real world conflicts and injecting mercenaries into it, I'd be glad to put them in if they are of good quality.

MIGHT I REFER you to the time when the great powers gladly let officers go work as paid mercenaries in conflicts not conflicting with their own national interests.

I know that some Brits were involved in South and Central America's liberation wars against Spain, finding common ground among the Suramerican Criollos (white folks) who had been trained in Europe as well (Simon Bolivar for example).

What if that came back into play, along with letters of marque and open contracts ("whoever does this gets our official permission, post-facto, to have done it and X amount of money") and so on?

Also, I like the idea of Civil Air Defense Militias, but you need some serious paramilitary trouble in the US for people to need aircraft to help defend their communities. Regular Depression-on-steroids bandits aren't going to cut it.

>>11274248

The problem is that existence of PMCs in a capacity where they had access to this large of a range of technology and weaponry would change the nature of those conflicts dramatically. I think that for an existing setting, the 2010 point is the best place to start. It's not hard for a group to take these rules and apply them to other conflicts, but for an original setting, I'd say it's unnecessary.

JUst my opinion.

>>11274313

Perhaps with the economic hard times, in order to prevent skilled pilots from going permanently merc nation-states are starting to let them hire out to third parties during the "off season" ?

So you could have US or British officers flying as hired guns in a conflict not really supported by the US, just tolerated, and then return back to duty three months later in their home country.


This already happens with US CIA agents. To keep them from going private the Agency has to let them hire out to corporations on the side.

Imagine sub-contracted CIA guys organizing an Air America type deal on a for-hire basis for some minor-but-natural-resource-endowed country?

Also, in this world small nations with relatively strong militaries for their size could be significant. Imagine getting into a scuffle with the Dutch Navy in the Caribbean.

>>11274204
Mirages vs. MiG-21s, gogogo?

>paramilitary trouble in the US for people to need aircraft to help defend their communities

Venezuelan funded Mexican communists.

>>11274303
Absolutely. I am unemployed and pretty adrift this summer, if you want a dedicated fluff writer for something specific just shoot me a PM on our boards and I'll deliver.

>>11272944

Not at all, stealing your platform though friend.

Making a character for the hell, don't know if I'll ever get a chance at a game.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Name: Johnny " HubCap" Devin
DOB: 09/16/1955
Nationality: Irish American, New Jersey
Aircraft: F-4E Phantom II
Occupation: Avionics Engineer for Bombardier

Brief History:

Johnny Devin was the youngest of his group of friends and the tag along. So when his buddies were drafted into Vietnam naturally Johnny would falsify his age and enlist to follow them.

He would reunite with them only to be critically wounded by a sniper. Waking up after shock to his italian cousins face being blown off and his dead friends who tried to re-acquire him.

Johnny Devin was captured by Vietcong for a total of three weeks, until an attack seperated him from his captors and biting the stomach out of a guard.

Old tired and despite, Johnny just wants to kill as many people who would try to take from others what was taken from him.

Work in progress. I done very little research and I'm not writing as well as I can, because I am not too familiar with Islamic nations or religion.

A relatively young and inexperienced PMC, NAME came into being in anticipation of the Iran-Israeli conflict of 2011. Though they played little direct part in that conflict, they added to the strife of the Middle East region by attacking several targets in Iraq, Yemen, the UAE, Kazakhstan, and Pakistan. Their specialty lies in ground attack, and they usually take fighter-bombers or multirole aircraft on missions. Most personnel are Saudi Arabians.

Comprised mostly of young pilots, the PMC's air force is not comfortable attacking well-defended targets, or confronting high-technology states like Iran, Israel, or the USA. The head pilot and co-founder, Khalid SURNAME, is an aging veteran of the first Gulf War, content to fly in his Panavia Tornado in striking ground targets -- his specialty. The new kids in shiny, expensive jets truly frightens him almost out of his wits; pilots under his command feel he is overbearing, overprotective, and altogether too strict a "papa." In a way, he keeps their eagerness in check, but they sometimes feel they could do without the stopper.

>>11274491
The other pilots are Khalid's second-in-command, Karim SURNAME. A younger, more lively pilot than his superior, he entered service in 1993 with Khalid as his instructor. They've been together ever since. He is a good all-round pilot, with a talent for sniffing radar and a good "pilot sense" warning him of impending danger.

The younger pilots tend to fly newer (and more expensive) craft. Their typical eagerness and recklessness does not sit well with Khalid, who doesn't have much back-up money should he lose more than one plane. (Most of his personal mission funds go directly to savings for this reason.)

Because they shy away from aerial encounters, NAME is sometimes derogatorily called Cowards or Winged Terrorists by other PMCs. Khalid is happy, though. He has work, he can fly, and his glory days aren't quite over yet.

>>11274483
sounds like a good character concept for freak legion

>>11271116
>Cold Warrior +1 to handling checks when flying aircraft made prior to 1975 (4pts)

Does this include airframes that were made pre-1975 but upgraded afterwards?

I.E. the F-14 was introduced in 1974, thus making it elligible. But the first update (F-14B) was produced in 1987. Would only the A model count, or would the B,and D also count because the airframes were made pre 1975?

>>11274437

Oh I know! For shits in giggles, let's have a guerrilla rebellion going on in the US...and make it a send-up of the 70's-80's survivalist movement!

I love the idea of quasi-fascist bushwhackers with heavy (but outdated) weapons lurking in America's wide open spaces.

Plenty of mooks with AA guns, civilian planes, and the occasional out of date military chopper for inexperienced civilian air militias to fight.

hey guys i used to be active at the forums but ive been super busy, upgraded my computer, and was out of state for a bit so much has gone on since then the last p&m game i read was the one where the aardvark slammed into a building!

>>11274533

I even had this bit where he got +25% xp from Soviet Allies, Communists, Russians, Asians.

-25% from all others.

wasn't sure how it would sail though.

>>11274544

F-14A only, the other stuff is 'modern'

That's my take on it anyway.

>>11274544

I almost think the cutoff date should be 1980, but that might encompass too many planes.

Too bad about Lambert's Kfir. 1976. Though the only reason I included it was as an Area 88 reference.

I have nothing going on tomorrow after work, so I'll probably be able to throw several Company bios up on the forums. Looking at Ukraine in particular.

>>11274491
Hears an idea, in the setting I'm thinking, the big push comes from an Iranian war, but to get around the embargo, several companies have been purchasing Chinese aircraft secretly, and creating indiginous designs, so when the attack happens, several corporate funded nationalistic PMCs defend the country, blunting the attack. Iran offers oil futures to companies who contribute to their defense, and the (overextended) US is forced back for the first time in modern history.

I'm trying to move away from a terrorist attack, so I think a financial crisis, targeting the US, is a better way to go. Working on it at the moment.

Name: David "Boston" Peled
Nationality: Israeli
Aircraft: Panavia Tornado
Occupation: Freelance Military Pilot - AtG Specialist
Quirks: Iron Sniper

Brief History:

Completed the majority of IAF pilot training but eventually not selected and assigned to ground duty. Later flew as a bush pilot for several years. Peled was part of the "first wave" of mercenary pilots and began his career in a Mirage III.

A consummate professional, Peled successfully keeps his life as a mercenary separate from his "normal" life as a transplant to suburban Toronto.

Corporate psych profiles suggest that Peled continually suffers from a feeling of being "out-of-place" and of being an outsider. It is recommended not to broach these issues with Peled, as these qualities are amenable to the mercenary attitude.

>>11274624
It lets the F-15 in, which, as you can guess, is a problem. The mechanic is supposed to give old planes viability initially. I might change it to Weapons instead of planes, but I'm not sure.

>>11274736

Yeah thats what I figured.


Maybe separate it by "generation"? Gives a good bonus to 1st and 2nd gen jets, and a slightly smaller one to 3rd gen?

Post these people on the forums too, so we don't lose any of it!

>>11274803
Do you want to have to write all the 'generation' of jets out? Because if you are willing to make a list of them this is a much better idea in my opinion. However, it requires a lot of work to implement, vs a simple date cut off.

Not looking forward to putting all the tables into excel for the pricing, but I'll get around to it soon.

>>11274812
Good idea
http://s1.zetaboards.com/PlanesAndMercs/index/

>>11274736
F-15, F-16...F-14...not the MiG-29 though, I don't think...

>>11274729

Hey Boston...why don't you come over here and eat with me?

Oh don't pull that bullshit asshole, I'm your rio, sit with me. What are you too good for some crotchity old man?

Come on, sit down, eat with me.

You know you remind me a bit of myself when I was young. Never really fit in, always trying to prove myself to the guys. I wouldn't worry about it too much, you'd be surprised by the good in people, the bad too.

OH and one other thing, don't shoot down any of my chinks or commie bandits, got that kosher boy? I want hesitate to fire through you.

>>11274853

Hah, I don't really know where one generation starts and where one ends, so yeah a date cutoff is the KISS solution.

>>11274903

Its generally not WHEN they were built, but their capabilities.

A quick look shows Wikipedia has a basic list of jet fighter generations. Its got all the major names it seems at a glance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fighter_aircraft

>>11274711
Mmm...a Middle Eastern PMC with clandestine Chinese jets?

Sukhoi, now you're making me want to learn about Chinese jets. And all I know from them, I learned from Battlefield 2.

>>11275008

Well, if you know Russian jets you already know most Chinese jets... Somewhat...

>>11275008
It just fits fairly well in the timeline I'm sketching around with at the moment. The Chinese wouldn't care about selling them, and the Middle East aerospace industry is starting up.

As some of the eastern european nations see the Chinese making a profit selling 'obsolete' fighters, they start doing the same with their surplus, until, (some eastern country) gets the hint and restarts production of the MiG-21, opening the floodgates of small companies tooling to build older airframes at low prices, or refurbishing old frames back to flight status.

Yes it is silly and stupid, but it has a certain appeal

Some other ideas for pilot feats might be various tactical teamwork based feats that allow pilots to become more formidable when fighting together. For example (some of these slightly inspired from Ace Combat):

Practiced Maneuvers - Pilots in the same flight/squad who have purchased this feat and are within X distance of each other may duplicate the other pilot's maneuvers without penalty/making a maneuver roll.

Formation attack - All pilots in the same flight with this feat who are attacking the same target use the highest attack roll among them when making the attack. For example, if three pilots are attacking a ground target, all three would use the highest roll.

Missile Misdirect - a character who has purchased this feat and is flying within X distance of another allied pilot in his flight may make a maneuver roll to move directly behind that pilot and redirect any locked-on IR missiles to his plane.

Linked Targeting - A pilot in an appropriately equipped plane may feed targeting data to allies in his flight, allowing them to utilize his relevant score for making attacks.

These feats could also be used on other rival mercenary squadrons to make fights a bit more characterful as well - you might go up against a very formidable pair of pilots with Practiced Maneuvers, for example, so that they almost always seem to fly in perfect formation.

Kumori Transnational is like Air America of the 1960's. Officially a private air-freight corporation that does bush-flights in developing world shitholes, with all the proper registrations and legal protections of such. Unofficially, they use civilian aircraft and tags to fly strategic materiel to/for warlords, revolutionary armies, and tinpot dictatorships. Unlike Air America, their goal is profit rather than national policy.

>>11275058
That totally isn't a MiG-21. I see what you mean.

Austin Air Group is a large PMC known for both discovering talented pilots and for luring them away from rival companies. They have a well-funded PR branch and are known to hold their pilots to a high professional standard. Typically this PMC avoids missions that involve extremely high risk in favor of less-suicidal but reliably profitable work. It is said, however, that AAG treats its pilots brutally when they fail to toe the company line, and several unresolved incidents in AAG's past do appear to allude to vicious intra-company politics.

2002- US and Allies bomb Afghanistan in an unrelenting campaign designed to Shock And Awe the populace. The Allied forces begin a ground occupation.
2003- The US invades Iraq under false pretences and armed with poor intelligence. WMDs not found, the US accuses neighbouring countries of holding Iraq WMD arsenal. Allies begin to fall out with US led invasion force, US begins hiring PMC to fill manpower gaps.
2004- US invades Syria and Jordan, using PMC ground forces to hold rear areas and allowing a fast advance. Support can no longer be handled entirely by US Air Force, private companies begin airlifting under contract. Iran bolsters it's internal forces by subcontracting procurement to national companies. Large numbers of older airframes are acquired and refurbished, and indigenous fighter designs rushed into production.

2005- The US attempts an invasion of Iran using PMC forces and regular troops. They are met by surprising numbers of mercenary forces, and force the invasion to a bloody standstill. China, seeing this as their chance to gain standing on the international scene, launches a cyber attack on the US economy, wiping out data centres full of financial information, crippling the US in a matter of days. Unfortunately, their efforts ripple throughout the economy, causing a nearly global collapse of markets. The only sector not really affected is the arms market, giving the defense companies unprecedented power and policy control. Sensing an opportunity, they begin opening up their sales to private companies and individuals.
2007- Countries worldwide, struggling to feed and tend to their populace, with their economies crippled, begin downsizing national forces in favour of contracted troops, as a cost saving measure. Brush wars in Africa begin to flare up as regional warlords hire PMCs to fight their battles, Africa becomes a gold rush (in some cases literally) as PMCs form and rush in to fill an expanding market.
2009- Switzerland becomes the first nation to completely disarm its entire standing army, switching to a long term contract with Jaeger Solutions, a large up and coming mercenary organization. Other countries globally begin to follow suit.

>>11275624
2002 - The year the US starts invading everything

>>11275624
>>11275648
Sounds fairly good so far. I like it. The US seems a bit too imperialistic, though. And with no word on NATO or other European countries throughout its wars.

>>11275678
US invades under pretext of "WMDs"

NATO and the rest would be in Afghanistan, and probably back away from the area as it got progressively worse. The financial collapse would knock the wind out of them.

Sweet Potatoes

A small PMC made up mostly from former pilots in 3rd world countries in south east asia, africa and south america who are known for providing good honest service at an affordable price.

Mostly fly a mixture of old aircraft like F-8s crusaders F-5 tigers as well as chinese A-5 fantans and J-7 Skyguards with some newer models mixed in.

Uses a lot of jury rigging of parts and weapons to make ends meet.

This is the most awesome setting I've heard of.

>>11275985
Sukhoi's Homebrew? 'Cause that's not really all that awesome. Awesome would be Strangereal, or Steve's Earth.

>>11276001
This is Crimson Skies with Jets, I can't think of a better game universe.

Some developing country can be a source of newer fighters though.Malaysia will be retiring their entire fleet of Mig-29N in favour of Su-30s.There is also an assortment of F-4,F-18,F-5E, F-5F, RF-5E and others which will be phased out over time. Might not be much political hassle buying from neutral countries.

>>11276053
Gosh darnit every time someone says Crimson Skies I can only think of this

>>11270831
>Watch someone make a supplement of this based on Strike Witches.

>>11276143
Ships are freakin' massive. It's hard to wrap my head around how you build something like that.

>>11276236
With SCIENCE!

And lots of steel.
Lots and lots of steel.

>>11276143
I have stood upon thee, Kitty Hawk!

>>11276150

Heck, there is airframes all over if you know where to look. I gave my dude the Kfir as an A88 reference, but it might be a decent buy for a Merc with a bit of cash.

I mean it was introduced in 1975 and enjoyed its role as Israel's air superiority fighter for all of a year before the US started selling them F-15s. It then got stuck on unescorted strike missions as F-15s and F-16s filled Israel's needs for a fighter.

In the last 20 years or so they've been selling off their Kfirs to Columbia, Ecuador and Sri Lanka. Doesn't seem too far out there that they might be willing to part with a few to some PMC that has done them a favor or two or falls on their side of the ideological/political line(s).

Of course, I don't know how decent of a performer it is (IRL or in Airwar C21). A quick glance at its stat block in stock C21 shows a pretty decent set of stats (especially for the C.7 model). Wiki cites a unit cost of 4.5mil, not bad.

I wouldn't mind flying one I think. But man, those triangles on the wings have got to go.

Basically I think it wouldn't be too hard to get a hold of anything 3rd gen or less on that wiki list I linked.

I just got here. Sukhoi, I could kiss you. Hell, I could do a lot more than kiss you. Just wanted to state that for the record.

On a side note, taking notes on this.

>>11276385

Platypus...

Fullback?

>>11276321
In 2017 you might even be able to get ahold of some 4th gen fighters being replaced by 4.5 and 5th gen fighters.

Assuming the PAK-FA and HAL FGFA get delivered on time I don't doubt that India and Russia might be willing to part with some fairly modern airframes for the right price (or to the right people)

>>11276150
What does Malaysia need an air force for?

It's hard to imagine anyone outside of Africa going on some conquering spree nowadays. 'Corse, that's probably what they were saying in the 1930s, too.

>>11276321

Yeah I had a short romance with the Kfir myself. I really do love the French Deltas and the Kfir's just a more awesome Mirage 5. To bad it got replaced so quickly. Would have been nice to see it in its intended role longer.

I, of course, would have to go with the A4. Plenty of those airframes sitting all over the world. And quite a few of them are plenty up to date. Now if only they'd chose to restart production of it in this alternate world.

I don't think there's any reason why you couldn't have a few different timelines that all end in general worldwide disorder and lots of mercenary jet squadrons. ...other than the work in fluffing out multiple settings, so maybe there's that. But the final product would benefit from having a number of possible related campaign seeds.

"The American Fuck Yeah!"
America invades everyone! Within a short span of time this massive disruption to the world order starts up a huge number of brushfire wars around the world. At the same time the usual suspects in military police action (US, UN, Russia, China) are all overextended in their own areas of interest.

"The Ace Combat"
Killer asteroids cause a massive rise in laser, nuclear, and railgun based superweapons. Later control of these weapons leads to a number of major and minor wars as different factions try to wipe their least favorite people off of the planet with them.

"The Expositional Masterplan"
US-China cold war heats up in a series of korea-vietman scale conflicts political ties and use the wars and their domination of mass media to control the price of their goods around the world while oh god Hideo Kojima stop humping my leg.

PMC Name: The Night Witches
Area of Operation: Russia/Eastern Europe
Airfleet: MiG-23, MiG-27, Su-24, Su-25

Named for the famed all-female Soviet bomber squadron in WWII, the modern day Night Witches live up to their name as a fearsome ground attack squadron. Like its namesake, the Night Witches is an all-female PMC primarily staffed with unemployed, hastily trained Russian farmgirls and factory workers. However, instead of flying ancient Polikarpov Po-2s, the Night Witches have managed to gain access to a modest number of Soviet attack craft.

Also like their namesake, the Night Witches specialize in bombing runs, air raids, and close air support. However, in an age where any country can afford radar and decent air defense infrastructure, the Night Witches have turned to their predecessors for inspiration. The Night Witches primary tactic is to attack their targets during the night. In order to escape detection, these poorly trained, inexperienced pilots literally fly dozens of meters above the ground until they reach their targets, where they release their bomb loads and hit afterburners before the defenders can react. As a testament to their dedication and bravery, these operations are usually carried out with outdated avionics and in most cases, without the benefit of nightvision. Despite this, the Night Witches are one of the most respected, hated, and feared PMCs in the Eastern Europe.

>>11276454
To be fair they didn't have Mutually Assured Destruction in the 30's.

What we need for modern conquering sprees is some analogue to the Ares Conventions or Antarctica Accord that bans the use of WMD's in war.

>>11276376
We all could.

>>11276608
BACK OFF! I SAW HER FIRST!

>>11276483
>>11276321
Your bourgeois airframes are decadent, comrades.

>>11276483

Yeah, reading up a bit on the Kfir makes their appearance in Area 88 even more of a nice touch, as the (loyalist) Kingdom of Asran is perhaps the one early-1980s Islamic nation that *doesn't* hate Israel's guts. Infact, IIRC they had trade and defense agreements (Asran is supposedly a southern border neighbor of Israel).

As part of their agreements, I could easily see them tossing Asran's loyalist faction handfuls of Kfirs that their shiny new Eagles and Falcons replaced. Especially when they're struggling against a communist/Arab-Federation backed rebellion. It kinda makes sense anyways, and maybe the US is asking them to. Afterall, when Asranian mercenary pilots are purchasing F-5 Tigers for $500,000, someone in The West is cutting deals.

>>11276454
Malaysian here,previously we used our air force in our conflict with Communist Indonesia in 60s to 70s and Commie insurgency until 80s.They wanted to absorb us but we refused.Even britain sent some Vulcan bombers as deterrent.Afterwards we were left with some commonwealth made aircraft and bought some planes from US after the vietnam war.We have a lot of reasons why we are buying arms right now.
1.unofficial arms race with Singapore.They are buying American planes while we are shifting to Russian planes.
2.Another reason is the air force is pissed with American companies making too much fuss about the planes we bought.
3. We crashed the Britain stock market in the 80s,making them really pissed and withdrawing military support.
4. We still trade with Iran despite sanctions. In fact some of their reactor parts are shipped through our ports. Who knows what Israel might do to us.
Lately we have been stocking up on high end anti-missile,SAM,ATGM for reasons only known to the ministry of defence.

>>11276538
To be fair, there is a kind of gentleman's agreement in place that already covers this somewhat. Most nukes aren't in the hands of people that would consider using them as anything more than a tool for political leverage, with Israel, Iran, and North Korea being the only real exceptions. Israel might conceivably use its nukes if a number of its neighbors tried to dogpile them and the war started going very badly, or if Iran broke out its own stockpile to use on them. North Korea would save most of its warheads for its upcoming glorious war with the south, but I can actually see them selling a few off if the deal was right. Iran is probably somewhere between these two, being willing to sell if it knew it could get away with it while saving most of its own warheads as a deterrent against foreign powers.

Anyone who sells nukes to people who intends to actually use them gets plastered politically, economically, and military as they go straight up to world enemy number one, having proven that they are military lose cannons who don't care about the collateral humanitarian damage. Any nation that builds and uses its own nukes is only a little better off and likely won't be willing to break them out unless it's in a Israel-Iran or India-Pakistan kind of war.

>>11276624
>>11276608
And I wasn't entirely sure she was female, up to this point. I drink.

Though, as a writefag, it gives me a funny idea for a story.

Fighter jets take to the skies like knights, individuals are easily picked out. Lady ace takes wing, various hot-blooded young men dogfight over the opportunity to ask her out. Maybe even tussle on the ground... makes me chuckle.

This thread has made me hot for goat felons.

>>11276976
Isn't that the plot to Porco Rosso?

>>11277219
Ah...Scarlet Pig...you are an inspiration to all mercenaries and a god to all who still love seaplanes. I salute you!

>>11277219
I wouldn't know; I haven't owned a TV in a few years. Though looking at wikipedia, it doesn't sound like quite the same plot. Worth watching the movie over, though.

>>11277274
It's got a flying pig during the rise of fascism in Italy between wars. You must watch it.

One of Miyazaki-donos best works. The fact that his father worked for an aircraft designer during the war(Mitsubishi?) means that he has a rather large interest in flying and aircraft. This was the one that struck closest to home for him I believe.

>>11277393
I'm in the process of acquiring it, mon frer.

>>11275092
Matador: works only with two planes. One plane deliberately becomes the 'target' of an enemy plane, while the other aims for the attacker. Roles could be reversed.

Inspired by Ace Combat Zero, while fighting the Hresvelgr you will encounter these two Sapin pilots.

And meanwhile, real-world news to fuel inspiration: A Russian nuclear reactor was attacked by terrorists yesterday. Dun-dun-duuun!

>>11277812
I'm assuming a spetsnaz group showed up and shot everyone within a 5 mile area.

You guys have read he Air War rules right? Because ideas are one thing, implementation is another.

Sukhoi posted about the character rules, turns out we were doing it wrong.

All stats collect points, but the number in them stays.

So if you put 3 points in handling, you advance to rookie (2pts required, you have three) but put another point in (total now 4) you have the airman qualification in it. So it's not 4 points over the original 2 from rookie, its 4 points total in the skill.

Posted what I have in the P&M forum.

Would anyone else love to see some RAAF vs TNI conflict in the timeline? Su-30s vs F-18 Super Bugs and F-35As.....

>>11277812

link to aforementioned attack?

>>11279579
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2010/07/201072152627545668.html

>>11279765
Nice nuclear plant, there.

Tried to contribute my maintenance experience in the maintenance thread. See what you guys can extract from it to make some realistic yet simplified/streamlined rules.

>>11279765

Hmmm... Dam attack blamed on terrorists, eh?

>>11277812
Really? 'Cause I read that maneuver in The Last Phoenix, with A-10s, and they called it a "Trick-Fuck."

"Look at me, I'm a pretty A-10, aren't I? Oh yes, point that gun at me. That's it -- BOOM, hah, my other A-10 buddy gotcha."

Except in the book it doesn't work out as planned.

Sukhoi, PLEASE tell me you'll be putting in rules for a Fullback.

I want that plane.

Ghostmaker PMC operates in and around the south east asia area, although details are sketchy. No official reports of work tenders have been logged by central authorities in the area, and yet they still seem to make enough to maintain a retired US Carrier (allegedly the USS Kitty Hawk, although there have been some issues with this) as well as it's 60+ mixed planes and attack choppers.

This is because Ghostmaker PMC does not actually exist.

In 1973, the US government began a cladestine initiative titled "Operation: Hardhat" a loosely controlled organisation with the intent of checking Communist Chinese ambition without jeopardising US trade contracts.
Operation: Hardhat has operated from behind the scenes for almost 50 years to frustrate China in a variety of different ways, arms contracts falling through, hawkish politicians having unfortunate "accidents", trade negeotiations with local powers going sour etc.
The vast majority of Operation:Hardhat is comprised of espionage and black-ops agents, and most of their missions are Spycraft. They do however possess a military capacity.
The Carrier Independance, supposedly scuttled in 2011 serves as a primary base of operations for Hardhat's 50 F-14E Tomcats and other air vehicles which they use under the guise of various PMC organisations.

They're most recent action was in 2015 when in an effort to prevent the invasion of Taiwan, they sunk the new Chinese carrier Yu-Shuan with russian made Kazoo AGM's as it attempted to invade Taiwanese waters. Giving the impression that there had been an unfortunate munitions explosion on the ship.

I'd kill/pay money for this system to get a legit pdf put on /rs/ full rules and all.... One can drea.

>>11280511
>In 1973, the US government began a cladestine initiative titled "Operation: Hardhat" a loosely controlled organisation with the intent of checking Communist Chinese ambition without jeopardising US trade contracts.

Awesome. Love the use of a carrier as a base of operations.

>50 F-14E Tomcats and other air vehicles which they use under the guise of various PMC organisations.

DO WANT.

>>11280511
They'd better not mess with Royal Malaysian Air Force (best air force in Asia pacific region) or they will be given bloody nose.

>>11276906
>>11280867

Fuck off, MALAYSIA STRONG

>>11280853
>DO WANT.

They're just the supposedly shelved F-14D computer upgrade that allowed it to use the AIM-120s really.
Although looking closer at the F-14 page on Wikipedia, we could make them Attack Super Tomcant 21 proposal, with the improved range, better control surfaces, lower landing speeds, vectored thrust and the cancelled A-12's AESA radar.

Also, I can see them having a few F-117N Seahawks as well.

lol i was the first to post a PMC and a pilot on the forum!

also my idea to add to the fluff, some time in 20xx the political unrest in Thailand comes to a head when red shirts hire a PMC to launch a coup against the government the US government doesn't know who to back so 2 factions fund the 2 sides liberal media backed millionaires send money by the billion to the red-shirts while conservatives and people who've acutely been to Thailand back the government with money equipment and contacts with the PMC Aesir security's international leading to a proxy war that is on the brink of total war to south east asia!

However,a lone carrier might be risky as there are threats from subs and the unknown method possibly used by north Korea to sink a frigate recently.Bringing a whole fleet might be too much.
My suggestion is to make a base somewhere around Borneo,Papua New Guinea or Vietnam. Vietnam had a war with China so might be a reason to host a PMC hostile to China.

>>11281054

Give em an old DDG, then. Even one would prolly be enough for a PMC.

>>11281013

The only problem with that is that if were using the Air War rules as a base the F-14D is pretty much as good as it's physically possible to make a plane.

So happy to see a M&P related thread. Has a new one from OP shown up recently, or are we still in the dark on what's happened recently?

>>11271315

>if you've ever played Strike Commander

I have, and I remember the plot in that game being pretty similar to your outline in OP. Although I think SC had an oil crisis in there too.

>>11281096

Before or after Grand Theft Fighter, Carrier Defense, and general FUCK YOUs at Liberia?

>>11280186
Damnit, Steve!

I'd post the truck-bomb image, but the suptg archives are down.

>>11281145

Lemme search my massive unsorted folder of shit, I think I have it.

>>11281069
>>11281054

The thing to remember is that the Indy isn't in constant military operations against china. They spend most of their time on stand-by, occaisionally supporting their Intelligence Assets with things like air-drops and Recon Runs. It's more of a "better to have it and not be needed" sort of thing.

They probably do have some kind of port somewhere to call home base (probably somewhere in Solomon islands under the auspices of the Japanese government.) from where they can launch their F-23 flights to troll Chinese J-12 test-flights by shooting them down.

>>11281150 here

There ya go, buddy.

>>11281145
I remember that plan.

It was the sort of plan the people from Top Gear would come up with. On that grounds it's probably a good thing he didn't go for it.

>>11281013
Agreed on the Attack Super Tomcant 21, its a crying shame that they didn't get the nod to build them.

The A/F-117X looks like something out of a scifi movie. However I thought that the F-117 handled like a pig which is not the best quality in a naval based fighter.

If it matters, my absolute, beat all favorite jet fighter is the Strike Eagle.

You know, guys, I think we're all missing something.

If you can survive more than a couple missions without getting shot down, unless the pay is ridiculously low(In which case you wouldn't take the job), or ammo is prohibively expensive, you'd probably have enough money to get an early 4th-gen airframe.

I seriously doubt any group will be able to keep JUST to 2nd/3rd gen aircraft for more than a few missions unless ENEMY ACES EVERYWHERE.

>>11281178

Never stopped the A-4 or the A-6.
The A-4 was a carrier plane right?

I'd like a Swedish PMC that has taken over a fraction of UN's duties and does African and Afghan peacekeeping missions. Aside from JAS, they would also have C-130s for cargo delivery and artillery purposes.

>>11281320
Such a PMC would be staffed exclusively by homosexuals and cowards (as most Swedes are) and would not survive exposure in the gay, leftist third worlder cocksucking environment that is Swedish politics. The government of Sweden would move immediately to shut down such an organisation.

>>11281320
The JAS would be a excellent choice for this, being able to operate and be maintained in shit African conditions would be a huge plus.

Ah screwby, might as well throw in someone from Down Under...


Max 'Harry' Cooper
Born: 25/05/1984
Aircraft: RF-111C (EW version)
Specialization: Wild Weasel/MIJI support
PMC: Hog's Heaven

Background: A true-blue Aussie, one of the last pilots trained to use the F-111 'Pig' by the RAAF before they were mothballed in 2010. Continuing his service in the F/A-18F, he became the services leading expert in anti-radar warfare, both using MIJI or with HARM and Rockeye. He claims his callsign is due to his first (over enthusiastic) call of 'Magnum', but it really has to do with his similarities to celebrity vet Harry Cooper (both in looks and his attitude towards dogs)

He left the RAAF after various reforms in 2016, when Australia diverted funds to a stronger navy to protect interests in the South Pacific, and was immediately hired by the small Australian/New Zealand PMC 'Hog's Heaven'. His last act was to 'borrow' a stripped F-111 with his old training partner, which has since been modified to a combination of the RF-111 recon Hog, and the EF-111 Spark Vark, capable of performing close air support, Wild Weasel or electronic warfare.

As a pilot, he is extremely slow to anger, and is constantly analysing whatever situation he is in. While this makes him an expert on hitting ground positions or when to utilise various jamming equipment, in air combat he has been charitably called 'predictable'. More commonly, 'dead man flying'.

>>11281338
What if the Swedes recognise this, and dismantle their airforce and sell it's assets on to non-swede PMC's to handle all of their national security?

I always did love the Draken and Gripen. Oh Saab, why did you have to be swedish?

>>11281486
>but it really has to do with his similarities to celebrity vet Harry Cooper

The thought of Dr Harry Cooper flying a fast mover amuses and terrifies me at the same time.

>>11281437

The bitch can even land on short dirt strips of road.

>>11281509

Sweden doesn't have enough military might to defend its borders in the event of a war anyway, and it prioritizes international peacekeeping ops. So it's not that far-fetched to imagine that they'd form a PMC.

>>11281652
Sweden used to have the fourth-strongest air force in the world.

Anyway. How's this for an idea how to handle the swedish situation:
Swedish military has some ballsy staff that wants to play world police and essentially take over the UN, but the politicians won't have any of it. They're afraid that even a single swedish soldier dying at the line of duty means they're not getting re-elected.
So instead the swedish military sponsors a large number of "mercenary" squadrons to do their bidding. These squadrons are well equipped and supplied, but are very limited in what kind of missions they're allowed to take and what tactics they can use. Heavy collateral damage is a surefire way to get your funding suspended (since you're technically supposed to be peacekeepers), which is something other mercenaries use against them all the time.

I think this would do better with more believable fluff, also having the story relate more directly to the the rise of PMC's The nice thing about OPagain's campaign was that the players were the bad guys, lining their own pockets by tearing at scabs of international relations. The fluff here loses sight of that completely.

If you look at Blackwater/Xe's push to hitch themselves to Branjelina's Darfur band wagon and pass themselves of as a richer, more heavily armed version of Oxfam you might come across a richer seam of source materiel with more subtlety and darkness than this second hand: OMG Ahmendijinijad has set us up the bomb nonsense.

Also I think you want to beef up the system with stats and skills that work outside the plane so that you can run sessions where the players are getting involved in skulduggery and pistol whipping antics on the airfield or trekking to meet a CSAR helo.

Germany's Heer didn't take the transition to a European Force too well. A core active force remains, but much personnel was let go and tons of equipment went into storage. This left countless professionals looking for employment. And while many were headhunted by US PMCs, a lot were unable or reluctant to work with an international team in a different language.

With the times a'changing the German unwillingness to get one's hands dirty in open armed conflict faded and a few distincly German companies appeared with bids for PMC contracts on the international market. They tend to be a bit more pricy than your average mercenary crew. And they they won't officialy go for the shadier jobs, as international war crimes are still punishable by German criminal law. But they bring experienced veterans and barely outdated equipment to any lucrative battle.

Messerschmitt Consulting, a subsidiary of EADS Germany, handles most of the air power contracts, running a marketplace of some reknown with excellent international contacts. They offer anything from orbital insertion to professional air wings or even long range drone reconnaissance. Their local branches however employ small squadrons with second grade pilots and equipment fitting for small scale conflicts on a budget.

Messerschitt Kapstadt (Cape Town) has a remarkable turnover and caters to local and national conflicts all over the region. Gratefully embraced by the South African government the subsidiary has a solid standing and a few years of experience in the local ways. Working here is a bit of a stepping stone for pilots. A year or two of Me(K) make a serious resumee and pilots who survive this groundhog day are usually not the worst to employ.

Die Nachteulen
(The Night Owls)
Mixed operations in South Africa region
Specialization on night operations, all craft customized with IR systems.
Established by Walther Koch, former Luftwaffe. Other members include his younger brother and flying enthusiast friends of them from school.
They send only what fits the mission, but Walthers G91 always goes up to provide cover.
Ground teams hold them in high regard for precise night time insertion and extraction.

Walther Koch
Sixth Sense +1
Handling 0
Gun -2
IR -2
Radar -1
AtG -2
Evasion -1
Bad Attitude
Slippery Target
Fiat G.91
Maximum speed: 1,075 km/h (580 kn, 668 mph)
Range: 1,150 km (621 nmi, 715 mi)
Service ceiling: 13,100 m (43,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 30 m/s (6,000 ft/min)
Thrust/weight: 0.42
2× 30 mm (1.18 in) DEFA cannons
4× under-wing pylon stations holding up to maximum of 680 kg/1,500 lb
2× Matra rocket pods (each with 19× SNEB 68 mm rockets)

Roger Alsmann
Sixth Sense -2
Handling 0
Gun -2
IR 0
Radar -2
AtG -2
Evasion -2
Chaffmaster
F-104G Starfighter
Maximum speed: 1,328 mph (1,154 kn, 2,125 km/h)
Combat radius: 420 mi (365 nmi, 670 km)
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 48,000 ft/min (244 m/s)
Thrust/weight: 0.54 with max. takeoff weight (0.76 loaded)
20 mm (0.79 in) M61 Vulcan gatling gun, 725 rounds
7 Hardpoints with a capacity of 4,000 lb (1,814 kg) including
4 × AIM-9 Sidewinder

Thomas Neumann (Pilot)
Sixth Sense -1
Handling -1
Gun -2
IR -2
Radar -2
AtG 0
Evasion -2
Perfect Flare
Lars Pekovic (Bombardier)
Rita Klasen (Rear gunner)
Il-28
Crew: Three (pilot, bombardier, gunner)
Maximum speed: 900 km/h (486 kn, 560 mph)
Range: 2,180 km (1,177 nmi, 1,350 mi)
Service ceiling: 12,300 m (40,400 ft)
Rate of climb: 900 m/min (2,950 ft/min)
Thrust/weight: 1:3.2
4 × Nudelman NR-23 cannons (2 in nose and 2 in tail barbette)
Bombs: 3,000 kg (6,600 lb) of bombs in internal bay

Jürgen Koch
Sixth Sense -2
Handling -1
Gun -1
IR -1
Radar -1
AtG -1
Evasion -2
Tail on Fire
Klaus Petersen
Eurocopter AS565 Panther
Crew: 1 or 2 pilots
Capacity: 10 commandos
Max takeoff weight: 4,300 kg (9,480 lb)
Giat M621 20 mm cannon pods.
70 mm unguided rockets.
Matra Mistral air-to-air missiles.
AS 15 TT anti-surface missiles.
HOT anti-tank missiles.
Mk46 or Whitehead A.244/S anti-submarine warfare torpedoes.

>>11281781

I agree. There's a lot of interesting possibilities in a plotline where PMC's and international aid organizations enter into an unholy alliance. Say the Red Cross needs to hire mercenaries to protect aid convoys from pirates off the Somalian coast. There's also the possibility of PMC's developing out of aid organizations (this already happens with several Muslim organizations that blur the line between providing aid and training fighters).

>>11282902
The problem is, in that type of world, buying aircraft, of the type and number that make a game fun, is impossible.
The number of PMCs would be drastically reduced as well.

This is more the world I think the present fluff is aimed at creating.
http://replacementdocs.com/request.php?863

Again, to everyone whining about 'realism' of this concept, it is trying to put a justification in for a drastic re-arranging of how wars are fought, so that we can have a more Balkanized world with hints of Crimson Skies.

To me, I can suspend my disbelief and have fun in this world.

I'm sure the more Steve like worlds can be made on your own when this system is done, but for a system to appeal to the masses, I like where this one is heading.

>>11282835
>>11282853
Skill point distribution failure...

>>11283293
>>11283338

There's no need for a hyperrealism world for a scenario like >>11282902 to occur. It can happen in sukhoiverse easily.

Speaking of which, new PMC concept: Armed Intervention International. They're the armed response unit of a humanitarian aid group that's being funded by a gaggle of rich liberals who want to make the world a better place. AII is employed to secure territory and ensure aid convoys reach their target.

Come on Sukhoi, it's almost been 11 hours. Enough sleep already!

>>11283591
Shhh, she needs her beauty sleep.

>>11283749
If by "beauty sleep" you mean "masturbating in a puddle of motor oil for seven hours and then eating raw J79s for breakfast" then yes.

>>11283774
You speak lies sir. We all know she eats Jet A-1.

>>11283338
The most important thing is having a solid system, fluff is the easiest part of the game for people to rework as suits them, but I don't think starting out with a happy-meal mass consumption oriented version of the fluff is the way to go. Plus the only planes ruled out by keeping the conflicts smaller scale are the US Stealth planes and "5th Gen" fighters all of which look pretty faggy anyway. (Apart from the YF23 which was kinda bad-ass).

>>11283749
You... Posted my favorite high alt 190 conversion plane..

I hate you. You just made me miss Aces High 2...

>>11283805
If the low key operations are that important I'm sure you could operate a campaign in the "Early Years" of the Sukhoiverse, when PMCs with planes were rare, and finding good jets even rarer.

>>11283850
And a solution is found.

Back to planes.

>>11283802
It's actually JP-7

>>11283591
Maybe she is gainfully employed?

>>11283805
>"5th Gen" fighters all of which look pretty faggy anyway. (Apart from the YF23 which was kinda bad-ass).

Each to his own.

By the way, is there a mechanic or even a hazy idea in place on how to judge a PMCs capabilities, wealth etc?

Good news, people- just checked the P/M forum and Sukhoi is online again.

>>11270831
Overly dramatic. I'd rather see it follow the lines of "same old shit", where the fat and happy westerners continue being fat and happy, and where the africans, asians, arabs and south-americans continue being malnourished and regularily bombed back to the stone age whenever a new group of moneymen side with a new would-be dictator for mining and plantation rights. That's where mercs come in, afterall, training bush militias, protecting VIP's and resources, and occasionally committing war crimes for a competing corp or oligarchy.

That's a matter of taste, of course, fluff is nice and pliable afterall.

Also, flying beer bottles!

>>11284237
The semi-revised timeline has that.

>>11283850
What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter at all to me because I can do whatever I want and everything will be fine.

But:
My opinion on the fluff posted so far is that it removes a vital element of deliciousness from the original setting and that the ultimate success of the project will be greater if a more nuanced line is taken with writing the history of the future, rather than trotting out the sort of plot-lines Tom Clancy was getting bored with in the 80's.

>>11284335
In my opinion, the best timeline would be the one we live in. Date missions on the day the players start on them.

I'd love to see a PMC set in the Ace Combat universe.

But that's just me.

>>11284476
Me, I was thinking... how about taking the game system, and playing X-COM with it?

Instead of Skyrangers, though, you have Eagles, Flankers and Typhoons.

>>11284476
Any PMC with Mobius One would be freaking unstoppable.

Though I would love to see Ace Combat type X-planes show up as extreme late game craft.

>>11276629

I dunno, I think things like the Kfir add a nice variety.

Everyone'll flock to the Russian and American hardware. Some European stuff helps mix things up. I've been rather pleased that the Black Aces have used some nice Euro stuff like the Viggen and Rafael.

What will we do with all this content while the archive is down?

>>11284783
Dammit damit daggit naggit dagnabbit.

>>11284680
Better idea.

A black-ops PMC air squadron who keep getting hired by various defense contractors to combat test their brand new shit.

Emphasis on brand new. As in "not quite perfected yet" new.

The selection ranges from combat trials for the Su-37 Terminator, the PAK-FA and stuff like the F-15S/MTD, all the way up to the YF-25 Wyvern.

>>11284783
You can still archive stuff, it's only the older threads that aren't accessible.

>>11283808
Langnassen-Dora ist bestest plane.

Aircraft: Su-34

Pilot-Commander: Vladislav Isaev

Age: 28
Birthday: Sept 3
Birthplace: Russia
Height: 172cm
Weight: 92kg
Blood Type: O

Hobbies: Model Railway
Favorite Food: Rice Crackers
Forte in Sports: Sambo
Personal Treasures: His pet cat, Knuckles
Dislikes: Yoghurt

Navigator-Operator of Weapons: Artem Kochubei

Age: 32
Birthday: June 22
Birthplace: Ukraine
Height: 182cm
Weight: 84kg
Blood Type: B

Hobbies: Fire Twirling
Favorite Food: Lobster
Forte in Sports: Football
Personal Treasures: His grandfathers Makarov
Dislikes: Bees


Vladislav and Artem specialise in the naval strike capacity - a position in high demand. Their customised Su-34 has uprated engines, avionics, sensors, ECM package and compatibility with NATO boms and missiles. It has also been treated with sophisticated stealth paint (although it is by no means a true stealth aircraft due to its non-stealthy shape and external carriage of payload). These features allow them to rapidly deliver a large amount of firepower on targets that might otherwise be difficult to approach with regular aircraft. They also have a magnetic anomaly detector that can be fitted for ASW, at the expense of some payload.

>>11285175 Continued...

The two were once members of the Russian Airforce, however as worlds nations declined and became more and more reliant on PMCs, both no longer felt the stir of national pride that had previously spurred their service. With the ability to earn much more money operating as independant contractors, the two teamed up and left the Russian airforce, although they still maintain many contacts there that have allowed them to procure and upgrade their Su-34.

Vladislav is flying to care for his wife (Katya Isaev) and 3 month old daughter. Despite this he is still willing to take on high risk missions, as he has faith in himself and Artem to pull through alive.

Artem flies because it was always his dream since childhood. Flying independant is simply the way to see the most airtime and reap the biggest rewards.

>>11285175
>>11285187
y halo thar

>>11285187
>>11285175
I'm remembering that one mission from Zero where I stupidly took an Su-34 up against the Belkan Navy.

>>11285282

Isn't that what it's made for?

>>11285409
Indeed. Unfortunately, it's also a bit of a flying fucking cow and has trouble getting past the CAP.

>>11271537

I love you

>>11277812
>Matador: works only with two planes. One plane deliberately becomes the 'target' of an enemy plane, while the other aims for the attacker. Roles could be reversed.

This is already an actual air combat maneuver, the actual name just escapes me at the moment.

>>11287939
The Thach Weave, perhaps? There are plenty of manoeuvres that involve a wingman.

>>11287939
Espada squadron took that and basically turned it into a dogfighting technique, and perfected it. Fighting them is fucking hell. They're both painfully agile planes, they work incredibly well together and they know how to trade off at a moment's notice. They will literally keep your RWR screaming at you all the way through.

>>11287939
>>11289460

Isn't this what basically everyone did since WW1?

>>11289460
Espada?

ACZ Espada? FUCK THEM. FUCK THEM AND THEIR FUCKING STARTER PLANE MOTHERFUCKER.

FfffffffffffFfffffffssssssss
pew pew
sssssssssssssssssssssh

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