>>12495224
What the fuck do you think scouts wear?

Raven guard are also famous for useing lots of camo.

>>12495229

He's not talking about invisibility, he's talking about this...

The Mentors do

Apparently, several Chapters used varying camo schemes during the Badab War. It's not unfeasible to use camo, I'm pretty sure Chapters like the Raven Guard do fairly often, not to mention the already-stated Scouts. Back in the day I'm almost certain Alpha Legion made extensive use of it and may still.

>>12495224
I believe the Raven Guard paint their armor (Or are supposed to) differently pending on the environment.

May be the wrong chapter though.

Plenty of chapters use camo. There are basically two types of Space Marines, the ones who are semi-reasonable in their battle tactics and paint camo patterns on their armor, and the ones who go "STEALTH IS FOR PUSSIES, CHARGE IN OUR BABY BLUE COLORED ARMOR IN THE MIDDLE OF A DESERT!"

Scouts aside, Space marines don't use camouflage(they claim it is a guadsman's tactic with the idea that what the enemy can't see he can't kill), preferring to show their colors, claiming that what the enemy can see, he will learn to fear.

It's always kind of assumed that they don't. I mean, aside from the Raven Guard, who've done the more black ops kind of thing with Kayvan (or whatever his name is), most chapters seem to operate in such a way that camo wouldn't do much.

I mean, camo's useless if you're dropping down on the heads of some poor SOB using droppods. Also equally useless if you're teleporting. In fact, SM are more like shock troops; they kind of want to be seen, especially when they're ripping through the front lines with giant chainsaw-swords.

Any space marine who wears camo is a coward, and as loyalists can feel no fear, only traitors wear camo

the Alpha legion camos themselves as loyalist marines

thus no marines wear camo.

>>12495335
Space marines are exactly like shock troops. They will generally sneak if they have to, but they are scary more than anything else. They want to be seen.

>>12495324
However, as is quickly proven by Marbo and Deathleaper, it is very easy to fear what you cannot see, and you don't need your enemies' fear when they are fucking dead because they didn't know you were there.
Of course, regular human morale is shit in general in 40k, so I can see their point.

>>12495358

You have chosen....WISELY

>>12495224
Marines dont often camouflage their armor because it is largely a moot point in the role they fill on the battlefield.

Shock troopers are supposed to be SCARY.

I really want a story about SM anti camo fetish backfiring.

Like some artilery saw them from a mile away and just glassed their asses.

Reasonable Marines.

camouflage is the color of cowardice!

>>12495388
You mean shot artillery shells at them only to have the ordnance EATEN BY THE SPESS MARHENS IN MIDFLIGHT.

>>12495388

If you can see a space marine it is already too late.

Camouflage is solely the realm of the Reasonable Marines

>>12495412
I cant help but laugh at the thought of some cartoonish "the mask" esque marine pulling that off.

>>12495397
>>12495427
reasonable hivemind

>>12495397

I've seen that image for years and still haven't found the reasonable marine, is he really in there?

Marines are not Spec-Ops, unless by Spec-Ops you mean murder everything brutally. All the stories where they talk about marines icing dudes with a knife to the throat is nonsense; the armour they wear makes too much noise. It's got a goddamn nuclear reactor on the back, you think that thing's running silent?

Camo implies you're using cover. Marines don't use cover. They are cover.

Space Marines were designed to do two things:

1. Scare the shit out of people

2. Get into slugging matches with Orks

you don't really need camo to do either of those things.

>>12495397
Fire at the Ultramarine
Die anyways

Take a look at this. This seems pretty definite. Especially considering that the space sharks are usually grey colored.

>>12495444
The Reasonable Marine is probably flanking.

OH HEY I'M ULTRA YOU WANT SOME ULTRA I'M GOING TO MACRAGGE ALL OVER YOUR GIRLYMAN charging at you is a great distraction.

A split second after this picture was taken, the viewer was reduced to a shower of gore.

>>12495290
Alpha Legion is also supposed to use a command structure reminiscent of our modern militaries. I am pretty sure that is cheating in the 40k universe.

>>12495397
The Reasonable Marines once redirected a Waaagh into a competition to see who can make the biggest, scariest idol to Gork and/or Mork. They are also cheating.

It reminds me of that line about Calgar. "He only takes cover if he's evaluated the situation and decided he needs too."

Fucker must have been shot in the head ALOT of goddamn times for that to start making sense.

>>12495500
At least SOMEBODY sees the need for a position between sergeant and captain. Christ its annoying when you see stuff like a Captain leading 20 marines around because the sergeants argue over who should get to take command.

>>12495500
Yeah? Well I heard the Reasonable Marines occasionally gather with their chaplains to discuss what it means to take a life in the name of the Emperor. Those motherfuckers got their foes considered.

>>12495500

Having a lick of sense is cheating in 40K.

It's why everyone's always so pissed off at the Tau.

>>12495511
He is just a head and body now, so I'll assume it has been a lot.

Marines don't usually wear camo because they're not modern soldiers. They're feudal knights, and strict warrior-monks. In official fluff a few chapters have adopted camoflage-like patterns as their official livery, but they wear these colors even in out-of-environment situations, such as the Raptors and their jungle camoflage.

Of course back in the days of Rogue Trader this was all different, and space marines wore camo and painted profanity and insults on their armor, and any marine who dressed like a knight did so simply because it was badass.

I'm not sure which version I prefer, they're both pretty awesome.

codex pattern camo rhinos

>>12495297

you're probably thinking of the Raptors which are a successor chapter to the Raven Guard, they were trapped on a jungle death world for a century so they painted their armor in camo.

>>12495511
Everyone does this every time they get into cover. Everyone else just decides they need to get into cover more often.

>>12495556

What edition is that?

the only consistent "reasonable" marines are the mantis chapter but were defeated by space sharks literally carpet bombing the entire forest to get every single mantis hiding like reasonable pansies.

>>12495556

man I wish we could bring back the 1st and 2nd edition stuff, this GRIMDARK SPACE MEDIEVAL stuff is getting old.

>>12495479

>>covered in camo
>> still have giant insignia on chests and shoulders

Various camo'd marines, including SPACE SHARKS

>>12495581
Actually in the new fluff the Mantis warriors surrendured after the death of their chapter master. Only one of their secret fortresses was lanced from orbit. But the Mantis Warriors were also smart enough to use tactics that space marines should actually use, like snipers and guerilla warfare.

>>12495511
>It reminds me of that line about Calgar. "He only takes cover if he's evaluated the situation and decided he needs too."

I think that just Space Marine talk for "He gets behind cover when people are shooting at him, just like everyone else."

There are a couple camo schemes in Imperial Armour 2.

>>12495604

They're called the Carcharodons now.

>justice. maryal

>>12495617
well yeah thats the details of it

they abandoned their fortress and hid in the forests
they killed any space sharks that entered
space sharks get pissed and carpet bomb EVERYTHING annihilating the entire forest
mantis chapter is screwed and hold their ground then surrender when their chapter master is killed

>>12495633
Thing is, the wording is something like "When lesser men dive for cover when shot at, Marneus Calgar will take stock of the situation, decide if he needs to move into cover, and if so will do so," or something like that.
So when a mortar goes off next to Calgar and Ultramarine Jim, Jim will get into cover so he doesn't get mortar'd, while Calgar will stand around deciding if he needs to get into cover at all.
Rather then just getting into cover and then making his tactical appraisal.

>>12495694
Meanwhile he is hit by the mortar round.

Bleeding, he tells himself, "I really should have taken cover."

The next mortar round falls, he takes stock of the situation, and after the shrapnel clears, he says "I should have avoided that one too."

There's some piss-taking about Ultramarines and Calger in "The Chapter's Due". In that book it's revealed that Calgar never really ripped a deamon prince limb from limb like it says he did in the marine codex, it was just exaggerated propaganda.

>>12495694

In my head there is now an Ultramarine Jim. He is the least Ultramarine of the Ultramarines, sort of there version of Goofus.

Thing is to an outsider he seems like a competent, practical, codex abiding marine.

>>12495718
And so Calgar wrote in the Holy Codex "avoid those flying metal thingies that explode."

>>12495673

Stop using BoLS fluff, in GW fluff Mantis Chapter Master never dies. There's a whole short story on his sentencing in Legends of the Space Marines.

>>12495738
But Ultramarine Jim doesn't sound like a noble name for a chapter master. They are gonna stick with MARNEUS CALGAR for the time being. Jim in fact has outlived his captain and the 12 sergeants that have led his squad.

>>12495673
WWHY ARE THE SPACE MARINES FIGHTING

DONT THEY LOVE THE EMPEROR?

>>12495764
I'm sorry that BoLS fluff is better than GW fluff.

>>12495772
No. They love his maggoty cock, and there's only so much that it can go around, so they're killing off the competition.

>>12495772
They love pissing contests more

Mentors have built in camoline in their rulebooks, so they count as having camo, yes.

>>12495748

WE SHOULD TAKE AWAY THEIR FLYING METAL EXPLODING THING-LAUNCHERS!

>>12495769

Ultramarine Jim is now, in my head, over 300 years old.

>>12495769
I'm now seeing a slightly down Jim, who never feels too good since he's always getting passed up for promotion for things like "Not telling the enemy you're lobbing a grenade at them and then charging in with a knife," and "Opting to stay in cover with his missile launcher rather then charge across No Man's Land to toss some Kraks onto a tank."

>>12495769

Jim makes the decisions and tells everyone what to do, Calgar draws fire.

"See, we worked out that Calgar... I don't know why, he can shrug off alot of damage. I've seen him take a hammerhead railgun to the forehead and be alright. So we put him in the biggest, gaudiest uniform we can, surround him with a layer of ablative morons and let him think he's leading."

"Doesn't he notice?"

"I mentioned how many times he was shot in the head right? Lets just say he's not one for noticing things anymore."

>>12495786

Yes, because a Space Marine chapter would be so stupid that it wouldn't realize other marine chapters were just as merciless and efficient as them. They enact a strategy that was vulnerable to orbital bombardment, when they were facing a fleet of opposing Astartes.

Good job we have "Interview with a Girl Gamer" BoLS to write us fluff.

What company is he from? and what squad from that company?

>>12495877

I see Jim as being officially from 4th company, 3rd squad or something similarly inglorious.

I also see him remembering that he wasn't eaten by Tyranids and cheering up.

>>12495902
Good. we can now agree that Ultramarine Jim is the most competant warrior of all the ultramarines. But can he beat Creed in chess?

>>12495933

He could but then Creed's last pawn is suddenly a titan. Jim just shakes his head and laughs and has a cigar with the man.

rolled 16 = 16

>>12495500
Ah yes. When the Ork Hordes, under the brutal command of Horgutz Biggunz, led their mighty Waaaugh! into Reasonable Marine space, they were challenged to a Idol contest on the swamp world of Gurrat. After only a few days, the Reasonable Marine detachment left Gurrat after building their Idol on the only solid peace of land on the planet. The Orks, determined to put Gork and Mork as the biggest, have spent the last few decades building idols which have all been doomed to sink into the murky depths of Gurrat.

To note, the statue was made an inch taller then any sort of structure that the Orks could make on the semi-solid surfaces without it sinking.

>>12495953
Then they both go and kill an Avatar of Khaine, by wisely calling artillery to pound it into the dirt.

>>12495957

>height as indicator of weight

>>12495718
I'd like to think Calgar evaluates every situations like that.

"Okay let's see, there's an ork heading towards me. He is shouting at me alot, so it's likely he wants to kill me. He is very big and has an axe, so I should find a way to kill him before he get's close enough to attack me. I am currently holding a bolt which can bullets that I can use to kill things from far away."

"JIM, I'VE GOT A PLAN! Jim?...."

>>12495933

Ultramarine Jim plays Go and Poker, because he finds Go to be a better model for warfare and Poker because war is all about at making the correct decisions based on incomplete information.

He makes a point of not winning too many hands of poker, because it'd be bad for morale in his unit if he showed up higher ranking marines too often.

>>12495975
Which wouldn't work if the Avatar wasn't required by fluff to lose every fight it's in.

>>12495992
Jim forced it to sign the contract by saying that it could kill a bloodthirster when the next eldar codex came out. Jim is an adept negotiator as well.

Poor Jim.

He will never live his dream of being a tenth company sergeant. So he will have to watch another generation of Marines get cut in half during his lifetime.

>>12495992
>Organizing a brilliant feint, Ultramarine Jim is able to focus the attentions of the Avatar and Eldar warhost away from the main strike force, buying the Imperials vital time to complete the mission, before extraction teams fly in.
I've got a hard-on for Eldar and I'm okay with this.

Ultramarine Jim is truely a hero of the imperium. I for one can say that he is my spiritual liege.

Captain Tytus was best captain

>>12496053

Truly he is the best at being the worst Ultramarine.

Although they are not of blood of Guilliman most other chapters aspire to be like him.

>>12496015
Truly a hero.

Jim's arch-nemesis is an unassuming Black Legionnaire named Bob.

>>12496089
Who, if not for the whole chaos thing, would find Jim to be very likeable, since they both spend most of their time being reasonable.

>>12496089

Well, not so much archnemesis. They're aware of each other, but both think that abandoning tactical goals in order to pursue a grudge is pointless.

>>12496089
But Jim really doesn't hate him that much.

He was invited to Bob's niece's wedding

>>12496081

When the Ultramarines encounter other chapters descending from different primarchs they are often bewildered by the fact that the commander will often consult Jim about their upcoming battles.

The Ultramarines are confused, amused, and a bit saddened by the clear confusing in the leadership of other chapters who would consult with what is clearly the least shining example of Ultramarine-ness.

The Raptors Chapter had a camo colour scheme.

>>12496130
Yes, a very reasonable ceremony I heard. No mindless debauchery or rape, just a standard wedding with restrained merriment.

>>12496130
>>12496128
>>12496118

Bob is more vocal about his dislike for jim, but he's mostly trying to keep up appearances, since, both soldiers work for organization would kill them for thinking the other is a pretty decent guy.

i love this thread soooo much.

Jim the Ultramarine will be the subject of my next writefaggotry.

>>12496197
I'm trying to think of how to model the sly bastard.

>>12496168
Jim fights Chaos Marines, but only because he knows he must defend himself against his foe, who would otherwise end him. However, while he himself would not fall to Chaos as others have, he tries to understand why many would fall, without giving into heretical thoughts. Since he also knows that the Inquisition has ways of prying out the heresy.

>>12496197
Emperor's speed.

>>12496028

Think if he became the Chapter Master. Since the Ultra successors get their marching orders straight form the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, half the Marines in the Imperium could suddenly become reasonable, tactical, and practical.

But that will never happen. ;_:

>>12496253
>Chapter Master Jim
And in 3 days the Imperium of Man is changed forever.

>>12496219

make him facepalming, gun at his side, with his squadmates all in very active, threatening, hyper-masculine positions.

>>12496285
Ooh, diorama time! Sound good!

>>12496219

His gear is worn but well maintained. It doesn't really shine because that would draw fire. If helmet-less (and Jim likes to have his helmet on in battle unless he would have an iron halo) his hair is graying but he doesn't have all the massive scars you would expect an old space marine to have. If combat ready, he would be crouching and looking around cover. If not combat ready he is reading a book or playing go with his helmet and weapons within arms reach.

>>12496300
Hm, Jim is crouching behind a wall, facepalming as his squad is leaping over it and charging down hill, and his busted helmet is next to him (there's a still-smoking crater from the shell that busted his helmet in the first place).
Meanwhile, one of his squadmates is also taking his helmet off, for no particular reason.
An ambitious project, but I'm liking it.

>>12496274

Jim knows better than to try and change everything in an organization as traditional as the Imperium, rather he issues a series of clarifications and updates to the codex, supposedly as notes from Robote Guilliman recovered from excavations on Ultramar, and subtle adjustments to the training program.

It's a gradual improvement in combat results and doctrine, but it does tell over the long term, as more marines survive, so their numbers start increasing, and they have more force available to deal with threats to the Imperium.

>>12496361

Please for the love of all that is awesome do it!

>>12495556
I use #6 on all of my vehicles, barring dreadnoughts

Reasonable marines, ho! (Salamanders)

>>12496406
Might take awhile, need to get the money and time, but I think I'll give it a shot. Wish I didn't need two Assault squad boxes, but I can always use bits.

>>12496455
You are a hero among men. The story of Jim the Reasonable shall be dedicated to you.

No you fucking idiot.

These are space marines, their version of stealth is a big banner that says 'COVERT.

>>12496499
fucking space wolves..

>>12496455

and somebody needs to make Jim shaking hands with Bob, or them having a pint.

>>12496487
I'm kind of obligated to do so, seeing as I started this.
Building the Hill is probably going to be the hard part.
I am glad I learned you can make pretty good smoke from wood sticks, wire mesh, and flock though.

The Raptors Chapter, after being stranded on a Jungle world, quickly learned that a bright blue and yellow colour scheme did not increase their chances of survival

They quickly took up camo and are the premier Chapter to go for for all things Jungle warfare

>>12496499
They've spotted our ambush yet again.
By the emperor why do they see through our glorious stratagems, it must be xeno treachery or perhaps they are in cahoots with the foul eldar.

>>12496554
We had our "COVERT sign out and everything.

Jim, a natural Reasonable Marine born on the wrong planet.

It was only AFTER the battle of Gurhalie IV that the Ultramarines became wary of Ultramarine Jim. For he was the only survivor from the ambush, choosing to stay in cover and utilize the local Imperial Guardsman's artillery to destroy the Chaos Land Raider, rather than charge it with the rest of 3rd Squad.


also: Archive this... Seriously...

so where's S'te've, the unreasonable Fire Warrior?

>>12496916

Oh man, I remember a while ago someone posted a Chaos Tau Writefagging..


It was so awesome... can't find it now, I had it saved. Anyone have that lying around?

This thread reminds me: in the most recent White Dorf (I think, maybe it's last month's), there's a picture of an Ork with mother fucking digital camo.

My paints are not thin enough.

>>12496916

Currently getting in fistfights with Orks as a part of the Farsight enclave.

>>12496285

can we get a drawfag on this?

>man I wish we could bring back the 1st and 2nd edition stuff, this GRIMDARK SPACE MEDIEVAL stuff is getting old.

>implying 1st and 2nd weren't just as grimdark, even more batshit, and with shittier art made of primary colors and saturation

>>12497011

YEAH BABY YEAH

>>12496952
Swills beer and curses up a storm. So rowdy the Kroot mercenaries don't like hanging out with him.

>you caprecal

>>12496916
Worse yet, tell the painful tale of the pitiable Fredd, the Ork slugga who, despite his urgent entreaties to his fellows that "if the last ten frontal assaults into the enemy autoguns didn't work, there is little chance the eleventh will" has to watch his fellow sluggas die over and over again.

note to self: next time I'm building some terrain, add graffiti of "marines lol" to a wall.

>>12497126

Fredd was created when a Painboss stuck a Nobs brain in a Grots body as a punishment, just for shits and giggles he slapped the Grot brain in the Slugga boy Nob body as well.

Fredd has an unhappy life, since even though he's shooty and stompy enough to hold his own, he's not exactly orky, and so his suggestions on "Make sure we have enough ammo, know who where shooting at and try not to all get killed by IG artillery..." Fall on deaf ears.

>>12497103

why do I have that saved as "gurren lagann.jpg"?

>>12496915

I heard he also likes to use cover, suppressing fire, and smoke in order to advance upon his enemies. What the hell kind of Ultramarine is that?

>>12497181

Unknown. I cannot see into your mind yet.

>thronc reduction

>>12497189

>don't believe in yourself. believe in the emperor who believes in you.

and ignore the Heresy going on in that picture.

>>12497103
>>12497181

Okay, is this official art or something a fan drew with pencil crayons?

>>12497164

or sing ye the sad, sad tale of Janet, the combat-effective Sister of Battle. she has to watch so many of her comrades die in combat, while she, the only competent one, is cursed to survive.

>>12497219
Canoness: READY THE MELTAS AND FLAMERS MY SISTERS, TODAY THE XENO FILTH BURN!
Janet: Canoness we're fighting Tau, and you're suggesting we advance with close-quarters weapons only. Can we at least wait for the Guard artillery to get into position?
Canoness: IN THE NAME OF THE HOLY EMPEROR, CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGE!!!!!
Janet: Hmmm. My melta appears to have malfunctioned. No choice but to use my bolter. From that abandoned building that overlooks the enemy lines.

>>12497219

Janet figured out pretty quick what happens to sisters of battle, so she stole some blue paint, made a crude "U" out of some gold plates from the chapel and is currently passing herself off as an Utramarine.

She's obviously not, but having survived several battles, the rest of the Ultramarines refuse to notice that she's an unmodified human woman because "Noone but a warrior of Ulramar could have possibly survived in combat". If anyone asks she's a result of unfortunate gene seed contamination that's been eradicated wearing an older model of powered armor.

>>12497265

Even Jim thinks that is heresy.

>>12497164
Fredd received much ridicule from his fellows when he suggested that not painting all their vehicles and leg armor bright red would make them less obvious targets. Fredd, as unorky as he was, had clearly forgotten the speed boost bright red paint confers.

>>12497297

She's not in Jim's company.

>>12497299

Nahh, Fredd suggested that they should hang back and use artillery before charging in not, DURING.

>>12497310

No she is just a sister of battle. Fighting side by side with suicidal fanatics.

>>12497265

Is just a nice day dream she has before she has to watch her fellow sisters charge into battle against a bunch of 'Nids while not wearing their helmets.

>>12497340

Wait, are you talking about the Sisters or the Ultras here?

>>12497340

or the time they fought Emperor's Children wearing gender-specific armours... that was a sad day for the Ecclesiarchy.

how do i request an archive for this thread?

>I mean, camo's useless if you're dropping down on the heads of some poor SOB using droppods.

If you're using a drop pod as a weapon it doesn't need to be filled.

From the moment you leave the drop pod, camo can only help you.

>In fact, SM are more like shock troops; they kind of want to be seen, especially when they're ripping through the front lines with giant chainsaw-swords.

...when the individual soldiers at the front lines may be like 1000 feet apart with guns that have a range of 2 miles or so, they're just going to laugh and snipe down the retarded astartes.

Also, spess mehrenes do as well against things that can't be horrified or terrorized like orks, necrons, and tyranids, so I seriously doubt they actively go for that sort of thing.

>>12497348

Hi-oh!

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/12495224/

Aaaaaand Archived.

>>12497363

Fine, I'll humor you.

>If you're using a drop pod as a weapon it doesn't need to be filled.

First off, Space Marines use drop pods to get on top of the enemy. Like, literally on top of them. So they're not being used as a literal weapon. But just to note, I'm pretty sure the thing has a storm bolter or something similar on it so it can either shoot while they fall, or shoot as the Marines disembark.

>...when the individual soldiers at the front lines may be like 1000 feet apart with guns that have a range of 2 miles or so, they're just going to laugh and snipe down the retarded astartes.

No. Just no. Astartes are shock troops. And going fluff-wise or gameplay wise, they don't fight at those kind of distances. They generally do fights at closer ranges, where it's possible for them to run up to their enemy and gut them.

>Also, spess mehrenes do as well against things that can't be horrified or terrorized like orks, necrons, and tyranids, so I seriously doubt they actively go for that sort of thing.

While that's a bit true, they DO fight enemies that can/will be terrified. Such as cultists, traitor guardsmen, Tau, and Eldar. Also, don't forget that not all Orks and 'Nids are souless fighting/killing machines. The smaller, more canon-fodder ones can break in fear/terror or whatever analog applies.

>40k
>Anything remotely resembling realism

GUYS, SPACE ORCS. CHAINSAW SWORDS. FLYING CATHEDRAL SPACESHIPS. DEMONS MADE OF FUCK.

QUIT BEING MORONS

>>12497363
The thing is, you seem to be operating under the assumption that people in 40k fight in the same way as people IRL do.

>when the individual soldiers at the front lines may be like 1000 feet apart with guns that have a range of 2 miles or so, they're just going to laugh and snipe down the retarded astartes.

This, for example. Doesn't happen. At all. 40k is not realistic, people do not fight in realistic modern formations. For fuck's sake, hordes of primitive barbarians that charge into the face of heavy firepower are painted as genuine threats capable of burning and over-running entire worlds. Trying to apply any sort of sense, logic, or realism to 40k is an entirely flawed, pointless exercise in futility.

>>12497561
40k is fairly hard sci fi.
You wanna see wacky, watch some Star Trek.

camouflage is the color of cowardice

>>12497667

no it's not. this is.

>>12497581

That's true. From the sorcerers to the genetic memory to the power of Faith in the Empropor, there is nothing soft about this science fiction. It's as hard as Vin Diesel's penis on the battlefield.

>>12497682

>>12495556
uh, holy shit, is that 'The big one' a reference to 'big red one' or, the 1st infantry division of the US military?

holy. fuck.

>>12497682

Doesn't US use the same White-blue-red color scheme?

>>12497742
Yeah but that flag means "Fire at will".

>>12497581
It's possibly one of the softest sci-fi's out there. Actually, its really fantasy disguised as sci-fi.

>>12497682
>This is what americans actually believe.

>>12497765
It's true, that flag represents the french government, the french government is full of pussies and morons, the french people are okay, it's always their leaders that have been the problem.

>>12497765
Thanks buddy, I'm glad your hear to explain things.

>No. Just no. Astartes are shock troops. And going fluff-wise or gameplay wise, they don't fight at those kind of distances.

If you drop pod into someone's HQ... you can't just get back into the drop pod and fly back into space. A lack of camo means they're not gonna have much option but get shot at every step of the way back to the nearest evac point.

>Also, don't forget that not all Orks and 'Nids are souless fighting/killing machines. The smaller, more canon-fodder ones can break in fear/terror or whatever analog applies.

You're gonna go for terror tactics against nids. okay. good luck with that...

>>12497782
Isn't that the story with every government ever, ever?

>>12497790
Not at first, but as time goes on, yes, all governments tend to turn to shit.

>>12497799
Nope. They start as shit and later you notice. Still better than anarchy though, that start as absolute crap.

>>12497785

Shoot the big ones and the swarm goes to shit. Kill a handful of synapse creatures, and the smaller ones flee.

Yes, it does work.

Two things:

1) Everyone posting about Jim, and the rest KNOWS exactly how absurd the 40K universe is. That's why the concept of a Space Marine who fights like a soldier and not like a screaming powered armor berzerker is funny. That's the joke, we get the joke.

2) WW1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verdun The French took 400,000 casualties in one battle. 163,000 Dead. They kept fighting.

For reference? The US lost 400,000 dead in WW2. All of WW2. There are any number of negative things you can say about the French. Cowardice is not one of them.

>>12497818
Yeahhhh, not what we're talking about.

>>12497838

Stupidity and bravery are often confused.

>>12497849

>can't use fear tactics on nids
>kill synapse creatures like you would kill officers
>that doesn't count!

Would camo really help in 40k?

In the far future I expect there to be advanced ways of seeking out foes. Like eldar and chaos scrying with their psykers or tau scanning with their SUPA technology.

Personally I see that this would lessen the useage of camo dramatically (thus reserved for really sneeky units, like scouts and kommandos)

>>12497858
Assassination and terror tactics are two different things. The former is killing an enemy's leadership so the army can't function. The latter is just gruesomely killing people you don't need to to scare them into running away or giving up.

>>12497838
Casualties do not represent bravery, only incompetence.

>>12497838

let me rephrase. the French before WW1: badass, mostly.

the French after that, and until now: complete shit.

i'm not American, i'm Scottish, so don't pull that shit.

>>12497850
>>12497892
>Would be the exact other way around if Americans were being discussed

>>12497888

>assassination isn't a terror tactic

Every sniper ever would like a word with you.

>>12497896

Fair enough, it's usually Americans I see pulling that shit.

Though, I'd have thought that a Scot would remember the Auld Alliance and the Garde Écossaise.

Then again you'd think Americans would remember Lafayette and the Statue of Liberty.

>>12497900

>bash America to seem knowledgeable

>>12497869
As far as detection tech has advanced, steal tech is right up there with it. A good example is in the Black Library novel "Dark Apostle", where a squad of Terminators hides in a cave and deactivates their armour and slows their heartbeats to like 1 per minute. Imperial Guard troopers with sensors, who are specificly look for them, pass within Flamer range without suspecting a thing.

The little acnowledged fact about power armour is that when turned off, it effectively hides the wearer from thermal detection.

>>12497896
America here.
I still fucking love the French.
They're the only government willing to send Special Forces troops to fight Greenpeace.
I can't not love that.

>>12497892
>>12497850

It's not like the US soldiers in either WW1 or 2 were particularly well trained or super competent or anything. They just jumped in on that shit late.

I suppose it's smart to sit out most of a war and sell stuff to the belligerants.

>>12497869
Certainly not, every military force in 40k has rightfully invested in some sort of stealth unit capable of striking at key enemy installations undetected.

The element of surprise and deception has been a fundamental part of warfare since the dawn of time.

>>12497892

How the common soldier handles massive casualities however is indicative of bravery.

It is quite possible to be competent yet cowardly or incompetent and brave.

>>12497914
Okay, feel free to look up terror tactics at any time and be proven wrong.

>>12497939

>I can't actually argue, so I'll point to a vague definition that I am unable to quantify

>>12497933
the only reason we joined in the fight late was because it wasn't our problem to begin with.

We assumed that you Eurotards could handle a problem like hitler on your own, but when you proved you would simply appease the little bastard and allow him to start steamrolling through your country,

You eurofags are always so ungrateful, talking about how we should have been their faster, how we should have done this, how we didn't give enough, well maybe you should straighten your shit out and learn to handle your enemies on your own before you come crying to america for help.

>>12497962
>implying you did anything in world war two
>implying that contributing to the allied victory in world war two means america will always be good
>implying it's 3am and I'm too tired to argue
>hate

>>12497935

Reapers certainly think so.

>>12498003
Pacific campaign and lend lease act, look them up.

>>12497925

So hiding from scanners would work, provided you're practically helpless?
As It is nearly impossible to move in a deactivated powerarmor (Though I haven't got the slightest idea how long does it take for power armor to power up) [powerpowerpower]

>>12497962

Actually you never joined the fight at all, you got dragged into it by the Japanese empire and Germany got draggef in by their alliance with Japan.

>>12498003
>implying france didn't rollover and take it from a big, german cock
>implying that American production of vehicles, weapons, and planes wasn't a massive asset to the allies.
>implying that World War II was a purely European victory with little american intervention involved.

>my face at your inability to history

>>12498003
Hello Canada.
Nice to see you going about your business as usual, busying yourself with being the most obnoxious nation of self-aggrandizing fuckwads in a world that includes Americans, Japs, and the French.

>>12498017
I /did/ graduate high school so, yeah, I know what they are.
also
Just because MANLY MOTHERFUCKERS killed fascists like it was their job (it was) doesn't make you any less of a tool

>>12498024

Actually it should not work even then, unless they had just put on the armor.

The human body do not stop producing heat just because it is stuck inside an armor.

>>12498047
You sir, are a jizzmagnet.

>>12498036
Well I meant "you" as in the poster, not the country he's from. I guess there IS a small chance he's a world war two vet but seriously, what are the chances.

>>12498046
...what does canada have to do with this?

>>12498063

>>12498031
I'm afraid not, America while publically selling arms to both sides to seem neutral, already signed the lend-lease act and the Atlantic Charter with specifically England.

There are also a myriad instances of America showing defacto favoritism to the allies through the early parts of the war.

America was still politically an isolationist nation which didn't really want to deal with europes wars or issues. The only real tie was economic trade. With that being said, the Japanese made the war personal and gave us the excuse we needed to push our entrance into the war.

Don't mistake what I am saying, The world wars was a collaborative effort between a series of powerhouse nations to secure their economic assets and their political sovereignty.

But try to downplay or completely deny the american contribution to the war. Our factories mass producing war machines and munitions, and our fresh troops gave the necessary boost to the allied powers a real asset to work with.

Anyone who's taken a highschool history class knows this.

>>12497935
Hence each race uses specialised units for this.
I was referring to regular line infantry (shocktroops in the case of SM). Though I might have been a bit unclear about it.

Goddammit, we were having a perfectly good Ultramarine Jim thread and someone had to go and bring in real politics.

>We assumed that you Eurotards could handle a problem like hitler on your own, but when you proved you would simply appease the little bastard and allow him to start steamrolling through your country,

yeah because there totally wasn't a widespread hitler is awesome movement among the american right that was the main reason we didn't enter the war earlier

i don't even care if this is a fakepost

here's a thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB-YnV0e3Lc

>>12498093
I'm sorry = (

I'm sure if Ultramarine Jim was in charge, he could have won the war in a few weeks. And by "the war", I mean any war.

>>12498093
Happened just after it got archived, too. Works like a charm.

>>12498084

I am not saying that the US did not contribute to the war, Lend Lease was immensly important, what i did say was that you did not choose to join the war,

You had no choice after Pearl Harbour, the only possible response was to go to war, whereas before the American public had been quite content to stay out of it.

This is not to say that this is unreasonable, most countries in WWII would have stayed out of it if they could, but the idea that the US suddenly one day got up and decided to go to war for freedom, apple pie and nazi scalps is erroneous.

ULTRAMARINE JIM was here.

he thought all of you were being quite unreasonable.

so he left.

and it's partially my fault. but it's yours for responding to it.

>>12498036

>Implying the French army and Resistance didn't do everything they could to hold off one of the best armies the world has ever seen.
>Implying the Vichy regime represented the entire French nation.
>Implying Britain or American wouldn't have been steamrolled just as bad if they shared a border with Germany and didn't have the freaking ocean protecting them.

I don't want to derail this from Jim any more than it already is, but I just can't take this crap about the French anymore. I'm American btw.

>>12498409

And now that that is all out of the way, back to what made this thread archive worthy. Everything below this point is to be related to Ultramarine Jim, Black Legionnaire Bob, Battle Sister Janet, Slugga Boy Fredd, et cetera. Everyone arguing about politics and the legitimacy of Space Marine camo, gtfo to another thread or board.

Jim surveyed the thread with field glasses from inside the ruins of a burned out building. He had battle brothers covering his flanks and all the entrances.

He briefly considered sending scouts to try and kill the leaders, before shaking his head sadly and calling to the commling. "All brothers fall back to the thunderhawk. We're purging the thread with orbital fire."

"Shame" He muttered As he fell back to the rendezvous. "Everything had been going so well"

>>12498409

i'm not. i'm Scottish. good job reading the whole post.

>>12498469

see

>>12498438

I see no mention of Jim in your post. GTFO

>>12498477

shit wrong guy

my brain is confus

>>12498438
Does Black Legionnaire Bob really make sense? I mean, the Chaos Marines are just as stupid but they kind of have more reasons for it.

I like the nemesis dynamic though.

>>12498483

he's not his proper nemesis, he's just the one other reasonable and pleasant being in either army.

An idea just occurred to me. Why did early armies carry standards, and later wear uniforms? Think Napoleonic Wars. Why not blend in with the terrain?

The logic at the time was thusly: we're fighting those guys. Shoot people not wearing our uniform.

For Space Marines in shock operations, this makes sense. It will be immediately chaotic, there is no guarantee of visibility, and the boardgame is all about punchan, so it makes sense. Don't shoot baby blue, or don't shoot forest green.

That said, in any other context, camo is the only smart choice. Patterns roughly from Vietnam onward are meant to break the silhouette of a person, thus making it harder to pick them from the terrain as a target. In the jungle, seeing a ripple in the shaded greenery and seeing a soldier is dependent on making that distinction between meaningless area of movement and target.

>>12498524

they don't wear camo when they're being dynamic, but in actual engagements.

but enough of that, this is about Jim, Bob, and company from now on.

>>12498524
Problem is, then armies invented the rifles, gave them to skirmishers in less obvious uniforms and noted a big improvement
I imagine Jim would paint all scout armour in camo and give them all sniper rifles. All the other Marines think he's weird for requesting scout support for every battle

>>12498677

>then armies invented the rifles

Rifles existed during the Napoleonic Wars. The invention you're looking for is the machine gun, which made it possible to accurately mow down incoming infantry/cavalry, and better/more accurate artillery.

There are many mention of the codex astartes allowing camouflage if the situation calls for it.

Hence Ultramarines wear camo if needed as seen in this post:
>>12495556

>>12498692
Well, during the French and Indian war, skirmishers often wore green drab and cloaks to conseal themselves, namely the british. It was Ideal to adopt the tactic of ambushing the enemy, just like the native americans so commonly did. The early form of the rifle first started to show up around this time.

>>12498692
No, rifles. The formation of the Rifle Regiments of light infantry pretty much started modern warfare practises - like taking cover, and actually aiming instead of getting close enough and firing enough bullets that SOMEONE gets hit. Plus, actually trying to blend in instead of BRIGHT RED AND BLUE

Camouflage is a tactic of the spineless coward.

True warriors expect to meet their death on the battlefield, and wish to not to hide from it, but instead to charge it dead on, waving flags, and making as much noise as possible.

>>12498729
Yep.. we can thank the rifle for this one.

>>12498692
>Rifles existed during the Napoleonic Wars
Smoothbore muskets/whatevertheywascalled was used in big formations. Rifling techniques was invented later, a technology which increased the range and accuracy of weapons dramaticly.

Rifles indeed existed in the Nepoleonic wars.
look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Royal_Rifle_Corps
Light infantry units adopted the rifle pretty early on.

Napoleonic rifles were very primitive however, and their introduction did not radically chance battlefield tactics. Hell, you still had the massive musket-age formations in the American Civil War, although by that time it was finally starting to die out. However, musket-age tactics wouldn't be completely obsolete until the invention of the repeating rifle and machine gun.

>>12496285
no no, taking cover whilst facepalming!

True. It did take traditional armies to finally figure out that formations were becoming outdated. Even modern armies equiped with rifled weapons still learned the hard way that lined formations we suicidal, as when the British fought the Zulus in 1879. I'd say that the final lesson came with world war one. granted, artillery and machine guns did have their part in changing warfare.

>>12495397

According to the fluff the codex astartes has whole sections devoted to this, sadly we don't actually see any of this shown on the models themselves in the studio or in peoples collections in general.

>>12499473
I model the Infiltrate scheme on my Chosen with urban camo schemes. With a shit-tonne of effort I managed to mix a few arrows and Chaos stars in amongst it.

>>12499520
nice work man, got any pictures of them to share?

>>12498743
True warriors die quickly on the battlefield. It is the humble soldier who hold sway in wars.

Only two archive votes?
For shame, /tg/.

the concept of camouflage was laughed at and called stupendous horseshit until the second world war