The US would never break up asshole.

>>12943031
>US would never break up

Democrats
Republicans

>>12943031
>US would never break up
>US has already broken up in history before

>>12943101
No, some select southern states slammed doors and listened to marilyn manson and then papa Sherman dragged them kicking and screaming back out and made them do their homework.

North Dakota wins. Seriously, until you deal with the nuclear Stockpile there, all talks of the USA breaking up is moot.

Well, as a template:
Look for the idological boundries, take into account military presence, understand that there will always be loyalists/recidavists, and ALWAYS nuke the fuck out of California.

Captcha: sectons tipi ---> Sections Tip o.O

AMERICA!

FUCK YEAH!

Alaska and much of the west coast has split from the remainder of the nation. Primary influences are Australia and the Soviet Pact. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and parts of surrounding states have seceded and formed a new nation, currently at war with Mexico. Primary influences are Spain and the South American Union. The east coast and most of middle America has allied with Canada and Britain and has a mutual defense agreement with the majority of Europe. The nuclear-armed state of Florida governs Cuba as a protectorate and has closed its borders to the east coast. It is allied with the Southern Republic. Michigan, Wisconsin, Wyoming, and parts of other states, mostly in the west, are neutral. The year is 1979.

>>12943086
The party division is not a breaking up. It is been that way since the beginning. Party lines are an important part of the checks and balances system in place in Washington.

Now mind you, on the topic of breaking up: "LOL CIVIL WAR", but that wasn't political party lines. That was financial stability that the history books has whitewashed about slavery.

Best guess would be an East/West split with the US, Possibly with the southwest/central around Texas kind of doing their own thing. I could see European/NATO powers supporting the Eastern faction, the Texan faction believing they're fine alone, and the west getting Asian support? Not really sure, but it'd make an interesting setting.

>>12943136
>Implying an American fragment would nuke other parts of America in anything but the most dire of circumstances, and maybe not even then

If there ever is another civil war it wont be an even North/South split like before, hell it wont even be state vs. state it will most likely be extremist factions fighting for control of the govt. after the federal and state govts. collapse.

>>12943154
>>I have no clue about American Politics.

>>12943136
>implying North Dakota has the largest stockpile
>implying we'd place our nuclear arsenal in a state bordering another nation

>>12943168
Have you visited North Dakota? Most of them believe in the reckoning.

>>12943175
Uh he's actually right.
ND is where the missile bases and the bombers are because they're the furthest from the coastline. That way if an enemy sub decided to launch off the coast the US would have time to launch the missiles before the first sub nuke hits.

>>12943175

Minot/Grand Forks are home to most of the US Strategic Nuclear Bombers, and the Air Force Launch sites in ND have about 200+ Nuclear ICBMs.

>>12943101

the whole situation is very technical.

Only europeans would claim absolutes about it, well that and vietnam.

meanwhile we hear the stories about how half of the uk's industry was burned down because some wood cutters thought the machines would rise against man.

>>12943194
Thing is that without Government authorization those ICBMs are nothing more than giant rockets without a warhead.
And they DON'T put the locals in charge of the silos.

Basically a bunch of mountain milita types try and seize a base they'd just get bombed.

>>12943172
Go ahead and explain the problems if you want to assist. Or you can greentext some more, or maybe throw in a reaction image or two. That'll help.

It wouldn't be by state or region or by party line. Not entirely anyway.

As a general principle, rural and city people want different things but they need each other. So in most functional areas either the rural regions would be controlling the urban regions or the urban regions would be controlling the rural regions. A civil war would do wonders for pretty much decimating the suburban regions in terms of making them dependent on either the rural or the urban.

There are a few groups of people, regions, or organizations/philosophies that could unite certain regions in a less feudalistic manner. Not every region or state is going to function as a nation, in terms of identity or assets, but some could.

For laughs though, the Vermont/New Hampshire/Rhode Island/Connecticut region would be fun just because of their tendency towards libertarianism and socialism rather than the mainstream political affiliations.

what is the trigger event though?

>>12943148

Technically that picture is from Liberia, which is what America would turn into if there ever was a civil war.

>>12943229

The city/rural divide can be summarized as this; rural people want the price of bread high, because they sell it. City people want the price of bread low, because they eat it.

>>12943226
Yeah, because a government contractor who built the nuke authorization system really put a lot of effort into preventing someone from hacking it.

The biggest defense those missiles have against being launched is that it takes two people to launch them. The Launch codes are more to confirm to the two people that they should turn their keys. That and they are on a closed circuit.

You get a halfway decent hacker in their, and you have control of a global strike asset within 30 minutes.

>>12943159
>Party lines are an important part of the checks and balances system in place in Washington.
>Party lines are an important part of the checks and balances system

Ohgodwhatamireading.jpeg

Seriously. Seriously?
It hasn't been that way since the beginning. In fact until about 1856 America was basically a 1 party system. Small parties would crop up around issues, but they rarely lasted more than an election cycle.

In fact the founding fathers HATED the idea of political parties. George Washington refused to join one, James Madison, the fucking father of the constitution, wrote long articles about the evils of a multiple party system. Even Thomas Jefferson disliked any idea of a formal party system.
So no. Party lines are not an important part of the system. But they just want you to think that.

Also if America were to seperate you'd likely have 4 factions: East coast, West coast, Texas(incl. OK, New Mexico and Arizona) and the Deep South, which is basically everything south of virginia and East of Texas, though maybe not florida.

Odds are the middle states would be free country, supplying all four factions with food.
As long as an immediate war didn't break out between the 4 factions its easy to imagine the middle states (Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, Wyoming, S,N Dakota, Montana) dissolving into food Baronies, each with a contract to a diffrent side. There would likely be some sort of non aggression truce outside the main factions boundaries.

Thotins 1789-...Hmmm indeed I do believe Madison did have his thotins 1789

>>12943243

No, no, no. The AUS are National Populist, the Pacific States can either be democratic or Authoritarian Democrat (Dictatorship with an otherwise democratic/constitutional/limited-state-power structure).

Whereas the remnant under MacArthur tends towards Authoritarian Democratic at best, Benevolent Autocracy at medium, and National Populist at worst.

I would hope Alaska would ally with Russia or Canada, they have way more in common than the rest of the US.

And Hawaii would either ally with Cali, or maybe just go back to some form of quasi-british democracy.

>>12943232

It would have to be a massive amount of voters in a small area with a disaggreement.

Not enough to challenge a decision, but enough that could cause an eventual wide spread succesion.

It would also need to be during a time of great pressure on the U.S.

Like escalation of war among europe or something.

It can easily be more symbolic of a trigger too.

Say a president is elected, most Americans know that the president isn't the seat of power.

But there are still so many that are so fucking retarded, that it would be enough to send them into an autistic frenzy.

The topic could be " Should we be involved in World War 3?"

Knowledge and wisdom says isolationism is wrong, but the retarded peace bullshit has echoed since the fucking 60's

>>12943267
Pic.

It should be noted that only a few places in any of the four factions would be good for a continual food harvest in the way that the neutral states would be.

>>12943259

you realize our missile system is more electrical than software right?

Turning the key is the ignition, you need a fucking electrician and do alot of digging, picking and pulling.

>>12943338
and in an embarassing mistake, I have forgotten my pic in a post dedicated to the pic....

>>12943259
Without breaking in you're not launching anything even if you take over their communications.
It's down right expected that the system will be "compromised" that's why they go through the whole pass code stuff.

>>12943267

>>12943267

The West Coast is capable of feeding itself, and if you split the Rocky Mountain and Great Plains states with the Southwest is comfortable in that respect.

The Northeast requires the MidWest breadbasket, no question. New England has the worst food to people ratio despite its reputation for still having forests and little towns and crap. And considering the largest metropolitan sprawl in the country is BosWash, which connects to ChiPitts, this seems fate accompli.

The South has farmland, not the best, but it has it; it also has the Gulf Coast. Allow the South to control Mississippi trade and its in a good position I'd say.

In 2009, following George W. Bush's eight year term in office, McCain is elected the 44th President of the United States of America following a disputed election and a tie vote in the Electoral College (and subsequent tie-breaker by the United States House of Representatives), becoming the most unpopular president in U.S. history. A dramatic amount of civil unrest and rioting springs up all throughout the United States, resulting in domestic terrorism. In response, President McCain uses the Homeland Security Act and declares martial law on many areas of the country.

During the election of 2012, the Supreme Court of the United States disqualifies all the presidential candidates from holding office, effectively awarding McCain with a second term. The public reacts violently when incumbent McCain accepts his next term.

During the Inauguration Day in Washington, D.C. on January 20, 2013, a low-yield tactical nuclear weapon is detonated in an apparent groundburst, presumably having been concealed there in advance. The yield is sufficient to destroy most of the city, killing McCain, his cabinet, and most of the U.S. Congress. The United States plunges into chaos.

The European Union parliament meets in an emergency session, and votes to send peacekeepers to the greater DC area to secure international interests. Separatist sentiment begins to rise in America. On national television, the governor of California declares home rule, and secedes from the Union on April 15, 2013. Texas follows a few days later, taking neighboring states with them, and re-forming the Republic of Texas. By 2014, all hopes for a peaceful resolution are gone, and the Second American Civil War begins.

>>12943350

>Almost the entirety of U.S. missiles is along the west border of missouri iowa and up.

That actually makes sense, the minute man silos may even declare neutrality until some one takes over to.

They'd serve the people, meaning the victor or majority after the dust settles.

Every major region has at least one nuclear bomber wing or submarine port, and just one nuke w/launching platform of some kind is enough to make a pretty damn good sovereign state.

>>12943313
So if basically a Atheist Gay Anchor Baby Hispanic President somehow won?

>>12943381
The only problem there is that the EU can't react that fast. NATO might, but the EU is more lethargic then a dead manatee.

>>12943403

Islamic Gay Anchor Baby Hispanic

>Beticoal force

>>12943381
>The European Union parliament meets in an emergency session, and votes to send peacekeepers to the greater DC area to secure international interests.

lol

>>12943381
Damn. Nice.

>>12943425
Like I said, change EU to NATO and it works.

I can totally see the midwest being independant bastards again, but would they adopt socialism, or be hardcore tea partiers?

What makes you all think the states would group themselves together into regions?
Why couldn't states just go by themselves or even split due to internal strife?

>>12943403

Either a

FUCK YEAH WE GO TA WAGH!

or

BOO, WAR IS BAD :(

President whose either ignorant of anything any one tries to tell him or refuses to see any opinion outside his own.

People think Bush is bad are retarded, this guy could tick off his own voters on accident.

Lincoln cut to the quick when he just said " FUCK IT BITCHES, SLAVERY IS ILLEGAL."

He did it because he knew that it could be done or be a painful process later.

This guy is just an ass riding on a storm of personal self entitled bullshit.

"I'm president, why should I give a fuck?"

If it's an anti war president, have some one famous anti war die.

if its pro-war, vise versa.

Personally I think Jane Fonda lit on fire would be a nice touch.

>>12943371
West Coast may be able to feed itself, especially once it gets its agricultural industry up and running
But like you said the Northeast can't, Texas can't, the South does have farmland, but the soil is far poorer than in the breadbasket, without someother source they couldn't support large cities.

Which means those 3 need to compete over the midwest. and conveniently, their borders are all right next to the best way to transport the food.
South and Northeast border close to the railroad that runs from Chicago to Boston, and the Texas South border is right near the Mississippi.

In terms of story this allows for minor conflicts and raids to erupt, which can provide convenient plot hooks.

>>12943453
Most states are reliant on others for goods and services.

I can't see Rhode Island being independant. Mind you, it would be hilarious if they dug a ditch (A FREEDOM DITCH) and actually made themselves an Island.

>>12943469
Then trading makes even more sense, but I guess new york, well the entire east coast is fucked without the midwest.
Also, the race war, would it happen?
Im pretty sure hillbillys would be shooting blacks all over.

East Coast-Allies with Germany (Industrial!)
West Coast allies with Japan (Software)
Texas Allies with Oklahoma
Mid West does their own thing, or goes Commie.
Pac-Northwest joins Canada (maybe) or Great Britain
Deep South goes to France

>>12943449
Probably a wierd form of democratic socialistic capitalism.
There are large plantations, worked by hundreds of people, each with an elected representative that handles the outside business affairs.
The money brought in from selling the plantations food is divided in half, half gets split evenly across the plantation, the other half goes to communal improvements and defense.

This allows again for raids and rivalries between plantations, as well as missions for the PC's

I am loving this idea...

>>12943466
Thing is if the South went Rogue the first thing they'd do is start deporting people they don't like by gunpoint until their population dropped.

>>12943492

Race would only become an issue if it could be tied into the debate some how.

Like say Obama and Mccain were neck and neck.

But odds are he would run again in the next election, so if he's disqualified then that kills the argument.

>>12943516
I was thinking along the lines, when the shit broke loose and chaos ensued.

>>12943449

In the first five-way national election since 1946; Kansas, Alaska, Maine, and the Rocky Mountain/Great Plains states all go in favor of billionaire populist and independent candidate, Humphrey Ross. After the Trigger Event, they remain loyal to Ross. Though they voted for him in the name of reform, direct democracy, protectionism, isolationism, and popular sovereignty his platform is essentially fascistic. He replaces the liberal democracy method of representational government with direct referendums, but referendums held on a set of issues presented by his administration and selected public officials, experts, and industrialists. At every sector of society he brings government, corporations, and private groups together in a corporatist structure.

Doubly ironically, this makes his faction a lot more powerful than if it were just a bunch of guerrilla militias.

>>12943510
Problem is that by doing that they shoot themselves in the foot long term.
They need the manpower to operate the farms and factories. Plus if they removed the majority of the minorities, theres no way their armed forces could hold up against Texas or the North.

But of course since its a game, you could have them do that anyways and set the game shortly after the split, so the long term consequences are only now becoming apparent.

>>12943530

Thats what I mean.

If I was black and you were a redneck the only way we could squabble is if I had a real reason to bitch and believe Obama was cheated on race.

But since he lost on fair terms, I have no platform for aggression and neither do you.

We'd be too pissed at other shit outside of racism.

Now if its just pure racism, then I'm sure there will be minor lynching going on.

But it won't be all out conflict.

>>12943536
Or you know, just going back to good ol slavery.
Yes massa, toby is a good boy massa.

>>12943532

So what? Midwest turns into a giant DMZ run by state funded militia gone contractor.

Would there be agreements of cease fire or nonaggression withint state borders?

And if they are allowed entrance into it, it would be all too tempting to sabotage or even raid.

>>12943587

>>12943558
Problem with that is the huge african american population in the south.
Its easy to say, hey lets reinstitute slavery.
Its much harder to actually inslave up to 50% of your population by force when many of those people have weapons.
Atlanta in particular would pose a daunting task since 60% of the people there are minorities and the city would make it nearly impossible to easily round them up.

>>12943615
Not just Blacks, Georgia has more Hispanics than Arizona, you think they'd take kindly to slavery or deportation?

Not to mention those Drug gangs are better armed than some 3rd world nations. That's another faction, gangs, they'd most likely own certain cities.

>>12943615
>>12943632
So whites are actually the minority in America?

>>12943632


pfff gangs and dealers would easily be the first thing lost actually.

You think those cock suckers would operate in places that will probably be invaded? Let alone around a bunch of pissed off people itching to off some one?

This is the united states, we have infrastructure, we're not a wall of fucking forests.

If any thing, they'll pull out and in each state they'd be the first to die.

People would be afraid they'd sell them out to another faction, so they will be flushed out for a while.

>>12943660
Whites make up 65% now.

>>12943735

it'll go back up when we're done having sex with each other.

genetics and all that.

oreo is only oreo for so long.

>>12943720
It'll end up being like Iraq when dealing with them.

>>12943774

Infrastructure, Iraq, does not have

we are not a 3rd world.

Their asses would be oust'd faster than you could say " Hitler says kill all the faggots."

>>12943774

p.s. we hit dealers, not farmers.

whats in the u.s.? DEALERS!

Democrat Jeff Williams, unpopular bumbler
Republican Cindy Pawlinsky, erratic extremist
Independent Humphrey Ross, billionaire populist
Independent Sandie Barns, socialist senator

More interesting idea...

(Reason for why shtf) occurs, and the United States manages to piss every single extremist element in its borders. Militias all across the states begin an insurgency war. The Appalachians and Rockies become a hot bed for guerrilla fighting.

Certain southern states declare independence but conventionally are crushed by the US. A few holdouts survive around the swamps and riverlands of the deep south.

The USA is focused on maintaining the union which means states start getting greedy for all that pork money leading to great animosity.

Militias of conservatives, libertarians, anarchists, marxists, communists, racial supremacists, liberals and every colour of the rainbow exist and fight each other in desperate urban street battles and engage in rural raiding. The government is near helpless to stop this.

America's enemies supply weapons to these militias simply to fuck with the US.

>>12943792
And that means what? Urban combat is still urban combat.

>>12943826
>>Sandie Barns
A gender crossed Bernie Sanders right?

>>12943832
I could see that. Hell that supply thing has already happened.

>>12943838

no reading comprehension, why are you on /tg/?

I could definitely imagine jolly old europe twirling its 'stache and muttering "just as planned" when this happens.

Then they start moving in troops the help out "neutral" canada.

>>12943935

that would end the conflict in unison.

Never ever interrupt America when it's bitching about something with itself.

It would be revolutionary war episode 2 the phantom ass beating.

>>12943961

Nah, that was 200 years ago. Today everyone would pointing at eachother.

>U CAUSED THE INVASUN

>NO U

>URE COMMUNIST

>NO U NAZI

>GUISE GUISE DEY R ONLY HERE TO HELP

>LOL GOD HATES EU

>URE NAZI

>NO U

>DEY ARNT INVADING LOL ITS A LIE GORVNMUNT IS EBUL

>ROW ROW FIGHT DA MAN

>URE SOCIALISM

>DEY ONLY HELP U GUISE OMG U SHEEPLE

>NO U URE MAGOT

>URE NOT A PATRIOT URE NOT FIGHTING

>>12943832

The Democratic Front: Moderates, liberals, social democrats, socialists, anarchists, leftists / minority groups / labor / greens
- Funding: Progressive parties of Europe, Russian Federation, Brazil, Japan

The Nationalists: Neoliberals, conservatives, neoconservatives, libertarians, paleoconservatives / white supremacists / fundamentalists / big business
- Funding: Anti-immigration parties of Europe, People's Republic of China, business transnationals

>>12943961

Except it wouldt be the REDCOATS ARE COMING THE REDCOATS ARE COMING the second act but HOLY SHIT ALL OF THEM ARE COMING

and yeah, in case of a civil war we would our allies cock like a black hole sucks matter, patriotism only last so far-JESUS CHIRST PEOPLE ARE SHOOTING EACHOTHER ON THE STREET HELP YUROP

I'd imagine they would help with a shiteating huge grin on their faces

The United States is dissolved, but not before a brief and catastrophic military campaign that reduced much of the country to ruin.

In the aftermath, every state and even different cities and counties declared themselves independent but incidents have occurred to reduce the number of city states and townships...

In the New England north east, the libertarians joined together in a defensive pact, very self sufficient and isolationist. Time will tell if their anarchist tendencies will be a blessing or a curse.

In the deep south, The New Confederacy has risen up again with much fanfare... and explosives as the entire black population rose in revolt. Forcing an uncomfortable racial insurgency despite their "promises" to be accepting of people of all colour.

Texas, shudders at the events to their east and elates to stay independent but regional powerhouse. An unfortunate situation has occured where a land hungry mexico has forced Texas to align itself with the New Confederacy for military aid.

A new sun dawns on California... a Socialist sun, as their populist leaders easily unites or "liquidates" pervasive elements in their borders. Their first action? Arizona's hoover dam.

The streets of Chicago are soaked by blood... political blood. To rise to the top of this city you need to be ruthless and cunning. And especially successfully in battle with Michigan's newly churned out tank battalions. Failure can lead to political downfall, but success can elevate you to the status of a hero.

A strange mix of progressiveness and appreciation of nature, the north west recognizes the coming storm and have established a well intentioned but very thinly spread defensive pact.

>>12943905
NO U.
>>You think those cock suckers would operate in places that will probably be invaded?
If they could kick the asses of whomever invading then yeah.
>>Let alone around a bunch of pissed off people itching to off some one?
They might be willing to off someone also.
If you think some army of redneck militia types can go up and liberate an entire inner city ghetto then you're just fooling yourself.

Infrastructure, Iraq, does not have

we are not a 3rd world.

>>Infrastructure, Iraq, does not have
yeah infrastructure that they can also use.

>>Their asses would be oust'd faster than you could say " Hitler says kill all the faggots."
Ask Hitler about how the Warsaw uprising was a cakewalk.

>>12944017

>Progressive parties of Europe

>Anti-immigration parties of Europe

Thats not how european politics work like. In fact, they are nothing like american politics. In some countries right wing favor immigration and socialdemocrats oppose it, in some countries calling someone a liberal is equal to calling him a nigger in some countries conservatives are the socialists etc.

Oh, and nearly every country has much more than two parties with parties going in and out of favor and new parties forming over the decades.

Also, the EU(read, mostly germany and france) now pretty much decides foreign policy for all states through soft pressure(no monies 4 u)

Reaction to an american civil war would be basically france and germany high fiving and voting about sending peacekeepers in the UN. And we all know how effective they are.

>>12944107

Political parties did traditionally send aid to factions in civil wars that they approved of. But yeah, from an economic perspective Franco-Germany would be sending money to whatever side the Chinese Giant is not supporting.

>>12944075

The rest of the country are a motley collection of city states and counties. The vast midwest mostly continues as it have with ruralites trading with urbanites. Many wonder who to turn to for protection should an aggressive nation make a move...

Already the wheels are in motion, Chicago has taken Detroit and put its rusting factories to work and its gigantic war machine gobbles up resisters along the former rust belt.

The North East prepares for a possible attack from Chicago but find the east coast cities a dangerous target... already on the brink of starvation. They cannot possibly defeat two titanic enemies at once.

The Confederacy is winning its battle, but has been drawn to far out and drained of resources. Texas as a result has become weaker in the eyes of Mexico... whose military patrols appear closer and closer to the borders.

In a surprising twist of fate, a mexican plot to incite a la raza uprising ends with failure as the majority hispanic Californian nation easily turns them out and drops the heads of traitors along the border. Meanwhile, Arizona is taken and now Nevada has prepared for mountain warfare against the near limitless Californian armies.

The Northwest, is in deep political debate on full isolationism, helping Nevada defeat California or joining with Canada

>>12943498
I think California, Oregon and Washington would be in the same boat. Maybe Idaho and Arizona too but those three are too close economically and politically to be split up.

>>12944122

this is exactly why would we get invaded

>To repay the blood debt America and her people did us in two separate occasions and her in the time of need.

Read.

>hey, external market, cool

Actually, I think most people would actually support them, just because the fear of a chinese invasion.

Thirty years later every car is french or german,california is a backwater, movies are made in france, there is no such thing as american haute cuisine anymore, no american tv shows but british sitcoms, hamburger is virtually unknown, everyone eats bratwurst, half of the country is nature preserve park, SUVs are banned...

I think I will make this into a setting, what if america during a civil war willingly does this. It would be a weird subversion of the americana, what if we would willingly trade that for europana for safety?

>>12944196

thismanfightsforyourfreedom.jpeg

...I think my neighborhood would just go back to pirating. I mean, there's lots of boats.

>>12944244

mocked up versions of those would be awesome

anyway...
New America (Humphrey Ross' corporatist faction)
Patriots (Cindy Pawlinsky's right-wing faction)
Continentals (Jeff Wlliams' pluralistic faction)
Liberty Union (Sandie Burns' left-libertarian faction)

Also, while he didn't win a single state, the election was a five-way won with white supremacist Randal Giger running for the Sovereingty Party. Sovereigntist militants are to be found in pockets in the other factions' territories.

>>12944377

Updated

WWIII starts because the IRA releases weaponised LSD into the water supply of England, causing the Prime Minister to launch on everybody. In the aftermath of the nuclear holocaust in America, Texas breaks away and kidnaps the US president.

>>12943002
why would I want the us to break up?

well I suppose I could go for California sliding into the ocean but I dont think thats what you mean

bumping this thread for great justice

>>12944443
Hmmm....
Continentals would to invade the upper midwest ASAP for supplies.
Most likely the Patriots would go after the same targets.

Liberty Union will most likely go isolationist or ally with Canada.

And even if Ross won he's basically screwed if those are the only states that side with him. He's trapped inland with the least populated states in the country.

Cut off from the rest of the country, Alaska reverts to traditional methods of survival.

>>12944746
Colorado is trending pretty blue. But I can see them going for an indie. If so they are target #1 for the West Coast as they control the water. The West Coast can feed itself, but not without water which comes from the Rockies. Expect an airborne assault on Colorado coupled with a hard drive on Arizona and Utah in order to secure the river.

Illinois is disputed? That's hard-core Blue thanks to Chicago. Not sure how bad the trigger event is, but all the Northern States have an option.

Canada, which still has the Queen on their money, and Britain isn't fully-EU but can channel German and French resources into taking out the Yanks. New England is definitely gone if only for the food and all the other northern states are getting strong pitches for giving up the Great Experiment and joining the Commonwealth and/or EU depending on which plays better.

What's the status of the former Federal government in all of this. A lot of Texas secessionist fantasies boast about Federally funded military bases and NASA in their state (protip: FREE MONEY, NOT YOURS). I'm guessing there is a NORAD-centered Regency trying to keep our deterrent force in good order while informing all other nations that the US remains in existence and will defend itself.

>>12944873
The more I think about the more I am sure the Federal Government is still extant. They have plans to survive a nuclear war. A little disorganization and civil dispute is nothing.

The Federal Reserve always keep a quorum of the Governors aloft aboard the COG fleet, currently based out of Caribbean banking havens and some surprising Central American countries. The rest of the world is trying to offload their dollars but there are few takers or alternatives. Second only to the Regency's nuclear arms the threat of crashing the global economy keeps the rest of the world in check.

Few Federal assets are in play. The US military isn't state based and most units disbanded, though there is a lot of hardware around. Those units with leaders charismatic enough to maintain cohesion are independent operators playing their own game and not considered politically reliable by any faction.

Lots of hardware, but state militia units made up of National Guard or former veterans are embarrassingly bad. So are their foes so it all evens out.

The Regency is an Economist term for FedGov. The Guardian tried to pitch USOS (United States Over Seas, a term ripped from an alt-history when the lower 48 got sent back to 1943) but it didn't take. The substantial US forces overseas have kept discipline and remained in place. They are backed by the Government in Waiting centered around NORAD and supported by the Federal Reserve. The duo have managed to keep the system afloat, but if the US ever returns to the dollar they will find it a much depreciated currency. Oddsmakers say the Regency will collapse in three months, but are split on whether it will simply collapse or descend into banditry.

>>12943381
I like this interpretation

Bible belt secedes, closes all borders, starts a theocracy and declares itself the supreme authority of the Christians, which prompts the pope and the patriarch of Moscow to start a strategic alliance.

>>12944873

>implying that the Commonwealth nation's aren't democratic.

>>12946013
Three years later, after ensuring neutrality of the other factions, troop transport SHS(ship of the holy see) Sodom, with it's twin Gomorrah, escorted by Icon class missile cruisers, makes a landing on the Belt soil, disgorging the assault elements of Teutonic Order and Joannite tanks, supported by Orthodox commando raids. Yeah, sixtine chapel has a bit less gold now, but the Pope was heard commenting "Whore of babylon you'll call me, schweinhunden?"

>>12946031
>>implying that the Commonwealth nation's aren't democratic.

No, it was outright stated. You got the Queen on your money, she calls the shots. As the Australians learned to their sorrow back in the '70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional_crisis

>>12946074

Oh dear.

Heaven forbid a democratic nation have an election called.

>>12946074
You're just jelly because you're saddled with some sad men in dark suits. An outhouse in Buckingham has more history and dignity to it than that white-washed shack of yours.

>>12946074

Yeah, yeah. An Australian citizen, appointed to a role that usually amounts to rubber stamping, using his constitionally given power to break a political deadlock and to facillitate the will of the Australian people via an election.

Course, we could use a system where a single man, election on a two choice system, has the power to bypass democracy unless most representatives explicitly deny him, and to, at will, suspend justice and declare a person innocent.

This.

Ther's a wargame that Spanish Civil Wars 1930's Britain, complete with two broad "sides" each with a host of different colorful factions; such as the Republic of Scotland and various Duchies on the side of the anti-fascists, and Anglicans and other groups helping King Edward (who didn't abdicate) and Mosley's government - which uses both what military regulars are loyal to them and the British Union of Fascists Legion paramilitaries.

So perhaps using a Spanish Civil War approach would work best. Theoretically only two warring national governments, but with lots of smaller ideological and regional groups operating within either one.

Democratic President, Republican Congress. Government shutdown. Nation at a standstill. A face off once and for all (for this administration) to decide who is going to wear the pants for the next 2 years.

The President's elderly VP has a heart attack and is hospitalized, it doesn't look like he'll make it.

Congress gets to appoint a VP. They pick a hardline Republican.

Later a disgruntled Tea Patriot activist shoots the Democratic President, the Republican Veep becomes the President.

Weeks later the Democratic VP comes out of his coma and demands that he is the legitimate successor.

>>12946721

Joe Biden or John Boehner. Whoever wins, we lose.

finally Alaska goes back to us mighty Soviet Union back in business

>>12946721

The Dem Veep is sent home for medical rest, but he returns to the capitol leading a huge march. The nation-wide Republicans and conservatives rally up a huge march of their own into D.C., and fighting breaks out. The VP is injured, taken for medical treatment by D.C. police and the Secret Service.

From there the question lingers. Did he die in custody while adequate medical treatment was prevailed on him, or was he killed (or allowed to die)? The Secret Service, with split loyalties over this whole thing, tells different stories. Service agents loyal to the assassinated Dem Prez help smuggle the Democratic Secretary of State out of the capitol. According to the original line of succession, she is now President.

The Republican appointee VP turned Pres is furious and expels all Democrats from positions in the Cabinet and other important posts in an emergency session of Congress where ordinary rules are not used and instead a simple "yay" "nay" vote on each new Republican appointee is held.

I'm saying the North, that is the rough square from Minnesota to Missouri to Virginia to Maine, as the US successor state, closely allied with Canada and Europe, and generally being a first world nation.
Then you have California, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico as one state. Washington, Oregon, Alaska, and Idaho (the latter brought along kicking and screaming because it isn't viable on it's own). The South does their Dixie thing.
Florida, Texas, Hawaii, and Utah go it alone.
I'm not quite sure what the Dakotas, Montana, Nebraska, Kansas, and Colorado do. Probably end up with either the Byzantine-esque North or the Northwest.

>>12946721
>>12946845
Problem with your scenario is that Blue states and Red states don't have the clear boarders that the media likes to pretend exist.
The truth is that in most of the nation the Cities are deeply democratic, the rural areas are Republican, and the suburbs are swingy (except in the upper-midwest, where the suburbs are deep red and the rural areas swing around).

Neither is particularly viable without the other.

I see the grain states as going Soviet/Communist.

They have a history of Communism/collectivist thinking.

Plus who wouldn't want to be part of the Great people's Collective?

>>12946928

And in real life things wouldn't go state by state. I never said they would. The whole concept of Blue State/Red State is fictitious.

This setup, with competing legitimacies and lots of unofficial supporters on either side, would work well for dirty messy Spanish Civil War style conflict.

>>12946939
I would rather join up with the Industrial States of America. Revitalize the failing car industry by churning out tanks.

Alaskan national Guard...

The political divide between US citizens begins to increase at a rapid rate. Democrats become increasingly alienated by the Republicans, many of whom begin demanding for a new era of McCarthyism. Acts of vigilantism against gays, Muslims and women rumoured to have had abortions begin to grow rapidly in number, with the police in some southern states turning a blind eye.

Eventually, the Democrats are forced to come to terms with how backwards parts of their country have become, as the Texas declares homosexuality to be punishable by imprisonment. This act immediately draws nationwide condemnation, but also gains the supports of neighbouring states. The Governor of Oklahoma declares in a speech:
"This nation was born and raised on christian principles, and thus it shall live by christian principles. I can only hope that we continue to follow the good book, even if it means changing our nations laws to what many liberals would consider to be "inhuman".

>>12947028

Horrified by the implications of this speech, the US state of Vermont declares that it will not remain in the union while its brother-states threaten their citizens. The southern states immediately begin to condemn Vermont for its declaration of independence, stating that "Vermont is threatening almost two centuries of stability in the united states with its illegal declaration of independence." In reply, the newly instated President of Vermont pointed out how many in the south worshipped the Confederacy and believed that the north was at fault for the civil war. The President replies by threatening to sent in the National Guard if Vermont does not cease and desist.

Soon after, Washington, Oregon, Maine, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island all declare independence, with the President of the Washington Republic stating that:
"The Union is dead to us in the north. The nation that we all loved has become so corrupted by the Tea Party fanatics and their allies that its become unrecognisable to us. If the President truely values democracy, he would let our seven states remain independent."

Hours later, US troops entered the "rebel" states.

divison of the US would be a joke. How would the states fund a military to fight for them let alone be able to buy food to feed their state, that is unless they are part of the bread basket. Just remeber none of the is able to pay for anything with out federial support.

>>12947076

The war that resulted proved costly for the United States, as more and more states broke away. A chain reaction had started, for each state that broke away, the union became increasingly right-wing, which in turn caused another state to break away and so on. By the time the US declared a "Bitter Peace", only a few stated remained.

It wouldn't unless due to factors that would destroy/separate other nations as well (nuclear/biological/other apocalypse, severe peak-oil scenario, etc.). In that case there would be no international support for any faction nor would there be any sort of open warfare, in the modern sense.

The idea that the US could 'Balkanize' over trivial political differences is the wet-dream of Europeans and anti-Americans, as is the fantasy that somehow a 'pure America' will be born once the 'liberal states' remove themselves from the 'conservative states' (although someone wishing for the reverse is ignorant and dangerous). The idea that Republicans and the Tea Party are so vile and dangerous that they would fracture the country is nothing more than a liberal circle-jerk, and unless you're willing to play a game in a liberal circle-jerk setting should be discarded for a more plausible Balkanization scenario.

Agrigeographical

The West Coast needs to take the Rockies for water, the Great Plains is sparsely populated and can feed itself, that leaves the South/Southwest and the Northeast to fight over the Interior Lowlands (the best farmland). The Midwest has lots of cities and industry, so they can put up a fight. With the Appalachians at their backs the Northerners can pour down without needing to worry about guarding their flank. But the South need only march upriver and ignore the Interior Highlands.

>>12947268
Why do it is assumed that the Midwest is always going to be the one being conquered?
We have the best farmland, the majority of America's industrial complex, and the largest population centers outside of the Northeast and California. All we need is to do is march on down and grab New Orleans, and we are the continental hegemon.

>>12947144how would the states fund...
Hmmm, something tells me you don't really understand how things work. Let me help you out there. When people earn wages, a portion of those wages goes toward your federal income tax... it gets paid to the Federal government. All that money then gets a cut of it taken out to fund federal projects.
The rest of that money is then given BACK to the states after being divided up to pay for federal projects for the state. The point being is that that money actually BELONGS to the state in the first place.
States leave the union, and everyone stops paying money to the fed. All that money instead goes back into the pockets of the citizens of the state.
Imagine that your $1000 dollar a week paycheck suddenly goes up to $1360.00 a week. Since at 1000 a week you're pretty much into 36% income tax.
The point being, no state is going to pay into the federal gov't's coffers that they just left. So, the federal gov't gets deprived of that money, and the state tells it's people "Hey people, we're gonna have a state income tax now" and cuts out the federal middleman completely. Also, the state then seizes control of all federal gov't military bases (since they are LEASED from the state and not owned by the federal government) and all military parts, equipment, ordinance, and everything else. Likely this would be done by activating national guard units (who are all State Citizens) and ordering them to occupy state military bases. So... to answer your question. How would states fund a military? Duh... by citizens no longer paying into federal coffers with Income tax and instead funneling that money into a state fund for funding a state run professional army. That's how.

Hmm, I seriously doubt Mexico could pose a significant threat. Even today large tracts of the country elude sovereignty. Without US assistance, the drug war would probably wind up as even more of a losing battle. Mexico would be in a state of de facto if not actual civil war.
Besides, California and Texas both surpass Mexico in most appreciable social and economic ways, don't they?

>>12947173A chain reaction had started, for each state that broke away, the union became increasingly right-wing

ITT: Liberal circle-jerk detected.

This looks retarded, but it takes the agricultural regions, mountainous terrain, and the like into consideration - elements that would allow certain sociopolitical trends in certain regions to outweigh the fact that there really are no completely liberal or completely conservative or completely "northern" or completely "southern" culture areas. Considering the amount of military might the West Coast, Northeast, and South/Southwest have the idea that whoever runs those areas could squash dissent within those areas and seize part of the farm belt is not that far-fetched.

The most far-fetched is part of the Midwest remaining independent, but I figured once the farmland started getting taken by other factions, the industrial part would start cranking out the Michigan version of an AK-47 from auto-parts and say "fucking stop taking our shit!".

>>12947525

Even with the best part of the farmbelt, its not enough to feed the most populous region of the US (Northeast) alone. But better international relations, more industry, better port facilities, and so on allows FedAm to import food by exporting manufactured products.

Whereas the Empire has more food then it has warm bodies to kill Yankees with, and has to sell it dirt cheap because the international community frowns on conquering the Canadian breadbasket.

So, do you think we helped op? I hope he posts his minis once he mods them up.

>>12947436
Right-winger lacking common sense detected.

USDJ (United States De Jure government): The legitimate successor government (sort of).

USDF (United States De Facto government): The actual federal government (sort of).

USOS (United States Over Seas government): Caretakers of American overseas assets and foreign entanglements. Has to deal with DJ in terms of the government most foreign powers recognize as the legitimate US one and DF in terms of the government American transnational corporations and super-wealthy citizens living overseas recognize the authority of.

>>12947436
Its happening without any secessions, and has been for decades.

>>12948043
>>12947906
>>12947436

The butthurt detector, it's gone off the scale!

Socialist america flag

FUCK!

You guys remind me... I need to get back on a nations-and-transhumanism thing.

Because I hate the whole "all nations are gone" in Eclipse Phase.

I let the USA fracture in a technologically-advanced part and a luddite faction, following a catastrophe in Seattle where Microsoft were working on a new type of AI without strong safety measures. AI took over policemen with cybernetic implants, and through the help of infiltrators managed to acquire some aircrafts, and began infecting the US military networks. President authorizes a nuke on Seattle before the AI can cause a nuclear exchange with Russia and China.

Next elections, the USA political system is obliterated as a luddite Tea Party-ian party corners the Democrats and Republicans. Through smart thinking and deals, the Democrats get away with victory, in an unusual alliance with the Republicans.

Tea Party Luddites don't like this, as they should have won. The final straw is when the Pentagon begins phasing in weapons designed with AI's and weapons with build-in AI's. Military bases in Luddite land destroy AI related weapons, and soon after that, civil war breaks out.

>>12948129
Interestingly enough, if America had become communistic, it could have worked. It really could have worked.

Funny, how America makes or breaks ideologies, when you think about it.

>>12948204
Why would a Microsoft AI want to nuke China and Russia?

>>12948219
The AI has no true military power, and it knows the military could destroy him within hours.

So the AI, uses its cyborg thrall policemen and soldiers to cause damage and slaughter everywhere.

As the carnage becomes worse, the Pentagon will move up through the DEFCON levels. At DEFCON 2, the AI used a backdoor in the programming to take over the minds of military airfields, and began bombing civilian targets as well as "clean" military bases.

The AI never got to DEFCON 3, as the President ordered a "clandestine" non-existing nuke on Seattle (circumventing raising the DEFCON level).

But if DEFCON 3 would have been raised, the AI would have been able to worm its way within the nuclear launch codes, and would launch enough nukes to China and Russia to trigger a response, and it would use the remaining American nukes on America itself, to blow up anything the Russians and Chinese missed.

Of course, the AI failed.

>>12948267
And why would the military want to destroy it?

>>12948204
>luddite Tea Party
> Through smart thinking and deals, the Democrats get away with victory

not really up on modern politics are ya?

>>12948267
The trigger for going rogue by the way was interestingly from another AI that went rogue earlier.

In Europe, Philips was developing their own AI, consisting out of four AI's linked out of safety regulations.

One of the AI's had a critical error in its personality, leading to that AI becoming "the slow one". Eventually, this matured into a violent behavior about fixing the error, H.A.L. style.

Kill everyone and everything who knows about the error.

Too bad for him, the AI was linked with three other similar AI's, so the damage done by the European AI was quite limited. Only a few security personel were infected, and special forces took out the hostiles and isolated the AI from the outside world and cyberspace.

Information was suppressed, to the outside world.
The CIA however did get information on this, and send a check-up team to Seattle to see how the American AI was doing. One of the CIA operatives hadn't secured his implants properly, and the AI read the files on the European rogue AI, and the mission of the CIA operatives.

Hence, it went rogue.

>>12948287
Because the AI was afraid of getting terminated.

>>12948348
>European AI goes rogue because it is insane
>American AI is to be checked on.
>American AI is neither insane nor has it gone rogue
>Decides to go rogue once it learns that rogue & dangerous AIs get decommissioned

What?

>>12948390
I missed a bit about the structure of the AI's.

The European AI was build for advanced AI research in a safe environment, hence why it was basically 4 AI's constantly controlling each other.

Research was relatively safe, but slow.

Microsoft didn't want that, and since there were no laws regarding AI research, they just made one AI without safety measures.
Microsoft never considered that an outside influence could cause problems. Microsoft never even anticipated that government people with data implants would enter the building.

Interesting theme is the comic series DMZ, which tells of the second civil war.

Frustrated with economic disaster and endless foreign wars, midwestern militias rise up. Initially thought of as a joke, they gained access to sympathetic national guard armouries and exponentially increased in power and size as they avalanches across small town america.

Federal pilots refuse to bomb towns and it seems things would be peaceful as troops withdrawn from the globe also refuse to fight... until New York.

A fuck up by the city has left 400,000 residents of Manhattan stranded in between the Free States and the USA. This is where the war sparks and intense urban combat breaks out.

Imagine the US fighting Iraqi resistance... only with body armour, anti tank missiles, super sniper rifles and stealth helicopters. The so called redneck militias hold their own as war breaks out across cities, and towns, with no clear border distinction between each side.

The comic elaborates on the supposed leader of the FSA to be some mountain hick who lives in a trailer, who's successfully infiltrated the FBI/CIA, bribed the entire city of Chicago to trigger a new war front on his command, and can effectively march 4 veteran divisions across Canada.

Manhatten as a result becomes a hotbed of militias and political divisions, but life goes on. Important players include Chinatown, the Mexicans and Mercenary companies.

Bump for Thread of Kings.

In the 2046 general election the Left-wing parties gain a clear majority in Congress, with the Right-wing parties being the next largest, followed by the Centrist party and the only Regionalist party to be active on the federal level.

However, most of the military comes from Right-wing constituencies, and when several generals revolt they join the Rightist side. In the sudden coup, it is only the ad-hoc formation of Left Wing militias that prevent many areas from immediately falling to the Coup forces without a fight. This gives the elected government time to reorganize, recruit fresh bodies from their constituencies into the remnants of the loyalist military - and for the loyalist militants to better arm and organize themselves as well.

However, this also gives Rightist militias time to form and the military junta time to establish a state with the Right parties, with a charismatic reactionary military leader selected as commander in chief of the coup government.

Theoretically this situation or the inverse could happen, with just one change having occurred to the U.S., that being a multiparty system - which wouldn't even necessarily require a constitutional amendment and if so would require a very popular one even today - the abolition of the electoral college.

>>12948980

The Rightists are totalitarian but extremely well organized, having gotten most of the military in the coup and having had time to form a coherent military government and unified chain of command while the loyalists reorganized.

The Loyalists have legitimacy, but are also poorly organized, with moderates and radicals side by side, and a troubling lack of cooperation between the elected center-left government's loyalist army (with the depleted ranks refilled with center-left and center-right party supporters) and the leftist, regionalist, and local militias.

>>12949003

The USDJ (United States De Jure government)
- Congress dominated by Left Coalition
- Center-Left party President
- other parties in Congress: Center-Right party, X Regionalist party
- Official Army, mostly new recruits from the Center-Left and Center Right parties, mainstream unions/community groups
- Militias; Left and Far Left parties, radical unions/community groups, X Regionalists, Y Regionalists, local nonpartisan defenders

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The USDF (United States De Facto government)
- Military government made up of the rogue generals and the Rightist parties
- Reactionary military leader as commander in chief
- National Army - unified chain of command uniting the mass defectors from the army, the Rightist parties militias, fundamentalist and nativist miiltias, and corporate security forces

Live I say, Live Goddamn You!

The military should be thought of as a bigass wild card in any of these scenarios. Forget where the bases happen to be, if the US divides up along geographical lines everybody's loyalty is up in the air, especially if they go to war.

Think about it, any given unit or the personnel of any particular base is drawn from all across the damn country from what I understand. Hell, you can have guys in the same SQUAD from totally different regions, never mind the same division. Who's to say the infantry at Fort Benning in GA (for example) would side with some redneck-ass New Confederacy or whatever, when as many soldiers there might be from New England or California as from the south?

As conservative as the army or marines can be in comparison to the general population, imagine telling Joe Infantryman that he's gotta help sack the same city or region where his parents, wife, girlfriend, or children live. Whatever his loyalties or political affiliations, that becomes a problem.

Civil wars in miniature at certain bases? Maybe.

Well, as far as two distributed sides rather than a rainbow of ideological factions or regional powers, urban versus rural is a good start though keep in mind the modern power bloc are the suburban voters.

They're the force behind the Republicans, but considering the lousy under-representation of the liberal dominated urban areas are also a swing vote constituency or else there would be a perpetual Republican majority from the 1980's onward.

And don't think regional loyalties would win out. Do you think the hardcore progressives and hardcore conservatives that make up the West Coast (the extremely cosmopolitan coast and the hardibtten western settler look-out-Mexicans-are-coming! rural farmers, not to mention the difference between hillbillies and hippies out in the woods and mountains), or the white flight out of the rusting industrial cities of the Midwest and into the suburbs - melding with the breadbelt farmers there.

Even among Southern conservatives, there is a huge divide between the Dixiecrats that went Republican in the 60's and the Southern populists that stayed Democratic. Some of the oldest Democrat families and political dynasties are in the South, so don't write it off as some clean Red State Nation.

The US divided into spheres of influence by city. Keep in mind a larger sphere of influence doesn't necessarily denote strength. Does Denver really have the ability to control that large of an area or would Boston end up dominating lesser cities and their spheres?

However if you just destroyed large-scale civilization, these are the places people in a given area would congregate to in order to trade their wares.

>>12947992
>>USDJ (United States De Jure government): The legitimate successor government (sort of).

Well I don't think we have a trigger event defined yet. Odds are that even if the USDJ wasn't wiped out by nuclear fire it didn't make it to inauguration and recognition.

>>USDF (United States De Facto government): The actual federal government (sort of).

>>USOS (United States Over Seas government): Caretakers of American overseas assets and foreign entanglements.

I'm not seeing a split here. The surviving Federal bureaucracy (and large portions would survive) should all be on the same page. They are all following the plans prepared for this contingency. Though originally developed for the confusion following a nuclear strike they are sufficient to keep the USOS/Regency functioning.

Though I don't see them doing much. Their focus is on preservation of the nation and its assets. Despite the wet dreams of secessionists, the nuclear deterrent force does not fall into the hands of state militias. US strike capability remains robust and surviving Federal military assets are very robust at self-defense against warlords/bandits/legitimate inheritors of the defunct US.

Key members of the bureaucracy are increasingly re-located onto deployed US Navy ships. Despite some incidents the Fleet has maintained cohesion and continues to operate out of both foreign and secured domestic ports. Despite their precarious position it does make the claims of the USOS that the US still exists and will enforce all treaty obligations a serious threat.

>>12947028
>Texas outlawing homosexuality
You've never heard of Houston or Austin, have you?

>>12953672

Whose talking about nukes?

I'm just saying, if there was a coup there would be people actually controlling the machinery of the state (de facto), people with the legitimate claim (de jure), and then likely the overseas organs which probably would be with the legitimates in real life, but hey, who knows.

Though, that would actually work in of itself, pretty classically. If there is a coup and the legitimatists are weak, there main source of professional support are often in the "colonies", or in the modern day - in established diplomatic channels.

Though depending on how much of the state the coup forces take over, if they get the bureaucracies then the same guy who talked to London on behalf of group X will be doing so on behalf of Group Y.

Violence against Federal employees was unfortunately common during the early days of the Confusion. This was quickly put to a halt as even the most anti-Federal states recognized the necessity of maintaining vital services. The threat of retribution from USOS forces or a reconstituted US also put a check on mob violence.

The anarchy gripping the US makes counting difficult, but one of the largest surviving agencies is the United States Postal Service. Under the leadership of Postmaster General Henry Atkins the USPS continues to deliver mail across the shattered country. Their defiant display of the US flag on their uniforms and upon the flagpoles outside their many offices is even more powerful than Radio Free America (now focused inwards) in reminding citizens of the fractured republic of what they once were.

>>12953426

Bear in mind canada would be involved somehow, would grand forks really become a centre or would people go to winnipeg, same thing for grand falls and calgary and parts of new england and the larger maritimes cities

>>12947320
>>We have the best farmland, the majority of America's industrial complex, and the largest population centers outside of the Northeast and California. All we need is to do is march on down and grab New Orleans, and we are the continental hegemon.

I concur. The Industrialized States of America have more than enough strength to throw around.

California HAS to take the Rockies in order to get the water they need to survive.

The Mid-West? They have no critical needs and can choose to attack where they wish.

Though down the Mississippi to New Orleans giving them a seaport is the obvious choice. Mayor Daley (there is always a Daley running Chicago) will crush the South and lead the ISA to glorious victory!

>>12947320
>>12954016
You're both forgetting about Texas, which has the second largest population of all the states in the country and is right next to Louisiana.

>>12954368
Also, its rich as fuck, and has lots of military assets

>>12954456
And I think everybody is forgetting that human beings negotiate.

(Though without looking it up, I'm betting the upper Mid-West has more abandoned Federal inventory than Texas.)

The Industrialized States of America have a lot to offer. For the Northeast, actual food. That's going to make them pretty popular.

For Texas? Kinda arid down there? Can you feed your population? We have food. Plus factories to make things. Plus troops who can hold the things we make. Not a threat, but with your Hispanic population and the lack of Federal protection do you really want to ally with the sadly racist Southeast with Mexico on your border?

Join the ISA collective! Together we will create trade that will enrich us both and put the former USA to shame. OUR FIST WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!

Or stand in the way of our obvious route to foreign ports and be obnoxious for no reason that could possibly benefit you.

Your call Texas, though I remind you, foreign powers may be currently cowed by the USOS but they want what we have to sell and that will influence your efforts to establish overseas contacts.

>>12954548
Less than 10% of Texas is desert. It has the most farms by number and acreage in the United States. It's GSP (Gross State Product) is the second highest in the country, and comparable to India or Canada. It exports more than any other state. Its one of the leading energy produce3rs in the world. Its home to 48 Fortune 500 companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_texas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Military_Forces

tl;dr Texas is Big Pimpin

The parts of Mexico bordering Texas are also the ones least under the governments control, and if the US breaks apart, Mexico is gonna have even more problems of its own to deal with

>>12954735
What part of that was I supposed to be impressed by Texas? This is the ISA you are talking to.

You want to have a go because of some Davy Crockett fantasy you have going? You are going to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives because of an ANTI-LITTERING SLOGAN ("Don't mess with Texas.")?

Be reasonable. The Mississippi River is the natural protectorate of the ISA. You have Gulf ports. We have the entire upper Mid-West plus allies from the Northeast Coast (who else is going to feed them?) coming down that river.

Hell, that's not even entering into the equation the fact that the states you might invade may not be fond of Texas to begin with. You have nothing to gain and a lot to lose from defiance and the world to gain by cooperation.

Don't be to quick to dismiss the Northeast. We have ports galore, land border with Canada, and are not without our own farms or territory that can be quickly plowed.

We have much that the foreign powers value plus soil that can be quickly tilled. Most importantly we have manpower ready to export, and not in a senseless effort against the Rockies.

The Northeast is locked and loaded and HUNGRY! Who's got some? YOU?

>>12954016

Why does the midwest need New Orleans if it has the ports of Chicago on the great lakes?Why spead yourself down south when you can just force yourself into the smaller landmass of Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio?

>>12955621
Access to an actual ocean. The Great Lakes have, at best, restricted canal access over uncontrolled territory to the Atlantic.

Controlling the Mississippi gives you access to the Gulf and Atlantic, plus all the trading opportunities along the way and the ability to use "Perfectly Positioned Hegemon Prana" on every state bordering it.

>>12955291
Like a quarter of New York is farmland already.

>>12954836
And why would Texas have to invade at all? We could get favorable trade deals by promising to protect New Orleans from Yankee Imperialists

THE MILITARY GOVERNMENTS -
Northern Command
- Military government of Colorado (where its HQ is located)
- Unified or seized with military command presences in all the other continental states (and Alaska); except for Florida, Virginia, West Virginia, the Mid-Atlantic states, and the New England states
- Aims: To establish martial law over the United States, gain recognition as the official government, and then phase back to civilian government - though it is unwilling to ever make the military truly beholden to the civilian government ever again, it does plan to reestablish civilian governments and law once it controls the nation
- Alliances: Does a lot of negotiating at the borders and ports it controls and has negotiated trade deals and channels of diplomacy with other nations, but no lasting agreements or alliances.

Peninsular Command
- Military government of Florida; formed from Southern and Central Command HQs in that state
- Controls US assets in SouthCom (Latin America) and CentCom (Middle East); bringing home troops from those areas to fight
- Aims: Expand and survive; once it has expanded to a sustainable and defensible position, establish a civilian government and gain recognition as a new nation separate from the whole mess of competing illegitimate US govs
- Alliances: Inherited US relations with Latin American and Middle Eastern nations

>>12956769

Pentagon
- Military government of Virginia, West Virginia, D.C., Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania
- Unified or seized military command presences in the New England states
- Aims: To reestablish control over rogue military elements (the other milgovs) and establish martial law nation-wide so that reintegration with the USOS and civil elections can take place again once the emergency is over
- Alliances: Are friendly with the USOS and share information, but are intent on maintaining martial law and military government over the states it holds for the duration fo the emergency - when that emergency is over ultimately up to itself to decide

Strategic Command
- Lost most of its assets (strategic air wings) across the country when NorthCom (which controlled most of those bases) separated
- Those air wings took over the separate air force bases in Wyoming, Montana, and North Dakota; the States where US missile silos - which it still controls - are located. Lost the submarine port in Norfolk Virginia to the Pentagon but kept the one in Bangor, Maine.
- Aims: Can't hold out for long but does not see any faction as the legitimate government and is thus trying to keep the nation's nuclear arsenal out of their hands.
- Alliances: Is in negotiations to hand over control to either the Pentagon or the USOS, hoping to get the other to agree to the situation first so the cooperation between the two is not threatened by the change in the balance of power

USOS GOVERNMENT -
- US government civilian facilities overseas, international diplomatic recognition and relations (except in Latin America and the Middle East where Peninsular Command is recognized as the official US government, probably because it has the power to either take or maintain the military presence in these regions)
- Pacific Command (based out of Hawaii) and EuCom/AfriCom (both based out of Germany) maintained their assets (in the Pacific, Europe, and Africa respectively) and still recognize the separation of civilian and military power, recognizing the OverSeas government as the legitimate government of the United States
- Aims: To reestablish control over the United States as a civilian caretaker government in order to hold national elections
- Alliances: Besides being the internationally recognized legitimate US government is friendly with and shares information with the Pentagon; but it doesn't recognize the legitimacy of any military government - even a theoretically loyal one - having the power to decide when it will or will not hand back control to civil government and allow civil and criminal law rather than military law to reestablish themselves. Channels funding, supplies, and intelligence to CivGov even though the Pentagon thinks its illegitimate (for holding their own elections during what IS technically martial law, even if its being enforced by rogue North Command in most places).

>>12956795


USCG GOVERNMENT -
- Civilian federal government assets within the ConUS (and Alaska) and civilian state governments (and their assets - including National Guardsmen and Reservists in most cases). Never established by Congress but by state officials, had to hold its own congressional elections, while the transition and support of federal employees helps the air of legitimate civil government (just like the USOS overseas) engaging in an active armed resistance against the military is also a factor - when the capitol is controlled by the by-the-book Pentagon.
- Aims: To resist martial law, gain international recognition as the legitimate US gov (even if that means merging with the aloof USOS), and reestablish national elections. However it is A. fighting for its life against NorthCom and B. electing its own leaders as of now and would be hesitant to have those elections declared illegitimate in favor of anything less than free national elections. No giving up sovereignty to the USOS bureaucrats, government must not only be civilian but be routinely elected.
- Alliances: About the same as NorthCom; channels and trade but nothing solid. Wants to be BFFs with USOS but is held at arms length by those cautious cats.

For everyone who says the states along the North-East coast will have food problems...

NOPE.

Europe. We already produce too much food. Just send it to Washington.

>>12956839

Then why do you buy so much of it from us and Argentina?

Geographic/ecosystem map