Looking forward to seeing more. I'd contribute if I felt I could come up with anything worthy of the setting.

>>13718322
Working on some drawstuffs for it. May take a while myself.

just noting. I'm shamelessly plagiarizing the initial concept, but since I can't keep up with the thread here, it's probably going to go in a completely different direction from you guys.

good work on the other thread, though.

Actually, I was just reading what I missed before it autosaged. I made a thread a looong while ago concerning a world in perpetual fog and read thus.

>13713337
>Come to think of it, it's possible that world itself is fully and perpetually overcast. Enough of the shards may have hit the oceans (either evaporating an entire sea, leading to more land for Strobers and the like, or just boiling the seas slowly, leading to oceans that feel like hot springs) that the atmosphere is permanently afflicted with a light fog.

If it helps any, if you wanna run with that idea, the thread is archived on suptg here:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7410817/

>>13718414
Working on some crests for the Houses of the Holy City.

>>13718699
And one for House Wass too. Working on Arzot and Ulan.

>>13718708
Arzot.

>>13717670
I was thinking of a concept, "Foglands". Or seas forever masked in an eternal fog. Basically, sunshards that fell into an ocean or otherwise massive body of water, heating it up and creating an eternal layer of steam everywhere.

>>13718846
Or the seafaring equivalent, a shard in geosynchronous orbit above a body of water creating a layer of steam or constant storms.

And Sun shards as lighthouses.

>>13718699
>>13718708
>>13718797
I'd recommend simpler, bolder and clearer designs (instead of unshapely blobs covered in fiddly bits). Think of is at something you cast (cheaply) form pewter and pin to the chest of servants and retainers. You still want them to be easily told apart at distance.

You could also look into the hows and whys of heraldry, the latter in particular, for some hints.

>>13718797
Finishing the set with Ulan

>>13718942
Yeah, I know that these won't do in the long run as I only dabble with crests and such. Just getting some ideas out there. Would someone please do a better rendition of them?

>>13718942
Your concern is unfounded. Those shapes are distinct, and could easily be formed from pewter. Most would lack the fiddly bits, but the contours of the forms are distinct and are what matters. Color schemes could use work - as of now, only Gargonel has two different colors, ideally all would.
But form is fine.

>>13718969
Ulan is too similar in shape to Gargonel, I think.

I might have a go at these things when I have a moment.

>>13719013
I'm gonna tinker with Illustrator to really make the shapes stand out. And yes, there does need to be work on the color schemes too. This is why I'm just brainstorming right now.

>>13718888
>>13718846
The Obsidian Reef, an underwater city built by the Men of the Deep. Though the sea is turbulent and stormy above, perpetually shrouded in fog and smoke, the City beneath is calm but cold.

Long ago, the Men of the Deep were sailors and merchants lost to the oceans by accident or storm, changed and transformed by creatures beneath the waves. As such, they've adapted to living without light, adept sense of smell and hearing helping to guide them with echolocation in their domain.

That changed when the Phoenix left.

As shards rained down and caused the birth of the unstoppable hurricanes and the smothering fog, some of the shards that still held a spark of light and power were found by the citizens of the Reef. Releasing that this was a sign from the surface, explorers and scouts left the Reef to see what was wrong.

No longer motivated by isolation and primal instinct, the Men of the Deep ally themselves with the Shardwatch and trading tribes, helping them cross the seas and fight through the storms. They dream of the day where all the shards can be brought together to make a new sun, where the sea will be calm and they'll be able to bask in its warmth for the first time in ages.

>>13719031
Geez, I forgot how downright painful Illustrator is. I'll have to take a break from that for a bit.

>>13719235
You could try Fireworks, that's what I use for just about everything.

>>13717670
Did we stick with the space phoenix idea?

if so I always imagined it something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTnde3nioGw&feature=related

skip to 2:10-:20 and you see the edges of the sun come apart to reveal the phoenix inside

skip to 4:10-:25 and it shows the shards of the sun falling to the ground

there are more shards and they are normally smaller (proportionately) that the carved stone faces in the clip but that is how I imagined it (or atleast closest to what I imagined

>>13719073
I wanna see more of this. Could you explain more about the "Men of the Deep"?

Some design, for thoughts.

The little fiddly bits were left off in the interest of time, I still want to have them. Gargonel is good as-is, hence its omission.

>>13719519
>Wass
About the same shape, which I like, but I don't like that radioactive green in the inlay. Maybe tone it down a bit?

>Arzot
I like it as it is.

>Ulan
Not a big fan of the rectangle, or the neon pink. Maybe angle the left and right sides of the rectangle and work from there?

>>13719073
Are they like men who became merfolk who became re-adapted for the surface? I don't quite follow, but for some reason, I am imagining the Zora from LoZ, but with the ability to travel on land without dying.

>>13719587
>>13719503
Not entirely like Zora. I'm thinking a lot like, Deep One/Human Hybrids. Humans lost to the ocean turned into fish-people through magic and breeding. They're more or less blind, but echolocation and smell helps them "see". Their skin is mottled and scaled, and they do have fins and gills, but they come in various colors like natural sea life and they're capable of surviving on land for spans of time. The main restriction is that they only like to be on land if they know there's water nearby, and they despise arid, dry climates.

>>13719760
Okay, I'm liking that. Also, you mentioned that they associate with the Strobe Tribe of the Shardwatch. What do they do with them?

>>13719776
Help them cross the oceans or trade with them. I'm really just going by what the wiki says, how they're nomadic mystic merchants and warriors. The Men from the Deep would probably appreciate having industrious allies they can sell fish and deep-water minerals to, knowing that they can't travel to Shardstream cities.

>>13719760
I'd much rather go the route of another sentient species, rather than changed humans, but I like the idea regardless.

Costume concepts for possible NPCs. These make take a while between each one.

>>13719950

>>13719561
The brightness of the colors is because I'm working at a raw design level. They would of course become more dull in drawfaggotry.

How about this beveled corner Ulan design?

>>13719760
>>13719073
Maybe I'm not getting it, but this stuff seems really stupid to me.

>>13720329
I understand. And I like the redo!

>>13720159
Continuing with the King of Arzot

>>13720159
Oh, the internal color of the Wass icon could be white.

>>13720417
And now I'm drawing a blank on the costume designs. I keep wanting to draw something futuristic for the King of Ulan. Break time!

>>13720396
Just adding another area from which to create plot hooks, I would assume.

>>13720606
Well, Ulan is populists. Try taking some cyberpunk outfit, and then changing it to look more medieval.

So I was reading through the Shattered Sun I thread on 1d4chan, and I don't know if this was ever addressed:

Did the skies possess stars and other celestial bodies? If so, when the sun shattered, what happened to them? I for one think the idea of all the stars in the galaxy bursting at the same time creates a better sense of despair.

>>13720865
>Did the skies possess stars and other celestial bodies?
Nope, not addresses.
>I for one think the idea of all the stars in the galaxy bursting at the same time creates a better sense of despair.
Why would every egg hatch at once, even if starts were eggs that were far away? If anything, they should be far away shards. Or perhaps something else entirely.

>>13720638
Thanks for the inspiration. Apparently the King of Ulan is a badass mother fucker.

>>13721950
Oh, um. I just remembered: Baskers are all black. The other three should have dark skin too.

>>13722000
AFAIK, Baskers aren't all black, per se. Some level of tan, yes, but not all black. They're not gonna be as white as an Irishman, but I see at least a little variation in their skin tone. And with the exception of the House of Ulan, it seems that most of the members of the Houses stay cloistered inside in some capacity, which would lend a bit of a paleness to them.

>>13722000
Well, all they really need is a skin color change. Although Wass' hair would look unusual on a black guy.

>>13722000

Remember that it's common for nobles to spend lots of time in doors. A lot of cultures value paleness as a sign of beauty because it's a sign of wealth - you don't have to work in the field and hence don't get tanned. That's where "blue blood" mean noble comes from - their skin was so pale you could see their blue veins.

Also: I'm the idiot who came up with Shattered Sun and holy shit you guys are running with my idea? Wow. I'd love to talk more about this stuff with you guys if you want to actually make something properly out of it. Tripping for ease of identity.

>>13722077
/tg/ gets shit done, I know.

In any case, feel free to throw in whatever you can come up with in the thread. Hope you like what we're doing with your idea!

>>13722036
They were all black the last time we discussed it. And it wouldn't make any sense for one ethnic nation to be made of people from different races. Even if there might be people of strober or twilight stock, with light skin, they wouldn't be kings.

>>13722110
I think I'll agree to disagree on this one. The biggest city is gonna be multiethnic, so there's gonna be some variation in it in my opinion. If you want, you can get another drawfag to make a rendition of the Kings more to your liking.

>>13722077
>Remember that it's common for nobles to spend lots of time in doors.
Compared to field workers, maybe. They don't spend more time indoors than modern humans, and we still have dark-skinned people now.

Blue Bloods were pale because they were ethnically Iberian, compared to the common people who at that point had a lot of moor mixed in with them. It's not something that's nearly as dependent on sun exposure as you seem to think.

>>13722126
The city is multiethnic, sure. That makes sense, it's a major trade center along with everything else. But the rich and powerful should still be of the native race. That's just how things work, socioculturally. Strobers and Twilightmen coming in from the darker lands don't have the money, the connections, or anything else they might need in order to become Kings. And Arzot is hereditary, so in that particular case, it would be utterly impossible for some non-basker to become king.

>>13722186
But didn't the Kings originally come from all corners of the world seeking the first Shardstream upon the Awakening?

>http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Shattered_Sun#Government
>When the Phoenix hatched, the world was plunged into disarray. But the old kings still had power, and when news spread of a place where a fraction of the sun shown eternally, the Kings took their armies and their households and set out. The journey was long and hard, and they arrived in much diminished numbers. Gargonel arrived first, and he claimed the area. But others arrived, with their armies, and wanted a piece of the land. No king could hold against the other, so the warred very little before reaching a solution. They would form a Council of Kings, and would rule as a group. This plan was formed by King Arzot, for the royal houses had undergone much strife and death, and he was the only living king who yet had an heir, and thus he hoped that his son should rule all without resorting to conquest.

>>13722205
That was a long time ago, and chances are good they weren't white then either.

>>13722229
That would be true if the peoples of the world were isolated in one general phenotype, but I personally find it hard to believe that the civilized people of the world seeking the Shardstream - the people who were from the world before the Awakening, were all one type.

It would work for perhaps a separate campaign or variation of the setting, but certainly not canon. I would like to see the people as a mix of African, Middle Eastern, and Mediterranean in terms of skin tone.

>>13722107

Hey, I love what's happening and if you guys like it too that's just fine by me.

Did you ever reach a consensus about what The Other Egg would be? I can see an endgame like the Gehenna scenarios for old WoD centering around the Other Egg hatching.

>>13722290
Nope, interest in that idea was very shortlived.

>>13722290
I think we bounced that idea around, but I don't think we came to a consensus on it yet. Any ideas Phoenix?

>>13722284
>>13722229
Keep in mind that we've been operating on the assumption that time and adaption have already caused melanin levels to change. That's why Subfolk are so white; their blood-fed shards don't cause tanning.
Meanwhile, people in the Shardstreams and Wandering States are predominantly black, and people in the Strobelands and Twilight tend to be lighter, with a skin color gradient matching the lighting gradient.

>>13722284

I agree - I think the Holy City is meant to be this boiling pot, everyone jostling for space in the Shardlight. It would also be good to see some non-European cultural influences into the dominant culture of a fantasy world for a change.

>>13722302
>>13722308

Well, like I was saying the idea seems to me to best suit an endgame scenario; one egg hatching fucked the world, the other Egg would probably finish the planet off. As such, it strikes me as one of those things best left up to individual GM discretion. No-one knows what's in the Other Egg. It might be another Phoenix, it might be the Phoenix's evil twin, the Dragon.

I like the idea that when the Black Egg can be seen in the sky, that's generally considered an omen of bad tidings, though.

>>13722346
Okay. Convincing counterpoint. I had somehow forgotten about those critters.

>>13722357
Yeah, I think that's about as far as we got with that discussion. I don't really have any ideas for it, but if you can make more about it, that would be nice. Maybe add some writefaggotry to the Tales section of the wiki.

>>13722406

Sure, I'll get to some fagwriting about the Other Egg. I'm thinking mostly from the perspective of someone in the Holy City musing on the folk stories he's heard about it, and the panic that sets in when it appears in the sky.

Well then, off to bed with me. I trust y'all will keep this thread alive by morning.

Pic not related, but I made it a while back, so I suppose it counts.

>>13722687

Night. I'll post some faggotry when I'm finished, should keep the thread alive a while.

I can’t think of a time I didn’t dread Blackrise at least a little. Even now that I’m older, it gives me little tingles down my fingers to see it crest the horizon. Every time it comes around, blighting our skies the same time each year, the same doomsayers wheel out the same tirades from the same street corners. The Holy City chokes with smoke as people light fires on their rooftops in the hopes of driving the Black Moon away.
When I was seven or eight, I would spend a lot of time in my father’s workshop. He was a sculptor and used a lot of different materials. I’d poke around and ask him what all the different rocks and metals he was using were. One day, he was fashioning something out of obsidian, this little figurine of an Astronomer at his astrolabe. That memory always rushes back when I look at the Black Moon, hanging behind Gargonel. A sphere of obsidian huger than I could possibly fathom.
Walk down any street in the city during Blackrise and you’ll come away with a dozen theories about what the Black Moon is and how it’ll invariably kill us all. Everyone has a theory, especially the people who don’t know what they’re talking about. There are two really popular ones, though. The first is that the Black Moon is another Egg, like the Sun had been, and this Black Egg will eventually hatch. When that happens, the world ends. The other school of thought agrees that the Black Moon is an egg, but believes that the creature inside is dead and that’s why it’s black; if it were another Phoenix, the egg would shine.

>>13724055

I’m just out for supplies, but I have to leave extra time. Everything goes into overdrive during Blackrise. The preachers flood the streets and the wine merchants do their best business all year as people try to find one escape or another. We take a lot of comfort in the scale of Gargonel, the Shard that keeps up safe and warm. It’s supposed to be the single biggest Shard known to exist, big as whole continents. But when the Blackrise comes, the sky is filled with a looming black shape that reminds us that even great Gargonel is but a Shard.
I pass by a wild-eyed man on a street corner. He’s standing on an overturned fruit crate and his lips are flecked with crazed spittle. He’s shouting that this is the year that the Second Hatching will occur, that the Black Egg will split wide open and some malevolent evil will come out. I’m glad when the crowd drowns him out.
When I’m at the market, where the Twilight traders and the Strobers peddle their wares from rented stalls just inside the city gates, the crowds are even thicker. Everyone’s pointedly not looking up, but still talking about what’s up there. It’s strange. Blackrise is about the only time of year that it’s considered acceptable to talk about The Other Egg. It’s as if we’re afraid we might draw its attention.

>>13724069
I find the stall I’m after, a quiet little stand literally right against the wall. Karos is a Strober who sometimes brings me knick-knacks from out in the night. His tribe sometimes chance over old ruins, cities from before the Hatching. Some of them are mass graveyards, but even the ones where the population managed to escape to safety are filled with discarded goods. Him and I have an arrangement – I pay him for any old bits of art he can find. Karos shakes my hand when I approach him. He vanishes around the back to get what he’s found for me.

While he’s away, I take a moment and look upwards. It’s a clear day, and bright, but the sky is menacing. Because there It is, hanging silently behind the Shard. Perfectly round, shimmering in Gargonel’s reflecting glory. As I look at it, I can almost feel a pull on my chest. I hear astronomers talk about how when things get as big as Shards, sometimes their hugeness can pull other things. Looking at the Other Egg, I can believe it.

It’s surface shimmers hypnotically. For a moment, I almost believe that its shell is translucent thin, and I see something moving under the surface, writhing.

Then Karos comes with his gewgaws and snaps me out of it. I toss him some coin and head home. I try to eat, but find my appetite is gone.

That night, all I can find in me to sculpt is black spheres.

I hate Blackrise.

That's all I got. I'm going to try and archive this thread, but other than that I need some sleep.

I liked that, Phoenix. Great narration/perspective.

I wish I could keep up with you guys or contribute, but I am capable of neither.

>>13725855

Thanks. Sorry it wasn't better, I was really sleepy when I was writing.

Le bump?

Here's a fringe theory I dreamed up.

The Third Egg Movement argues that just as the Sun was an egg and the Black Moon is generally accepted to be an Egg, so too is the earth. The sun, they claim, was once like the earth and moon, an inert lump of rock, but as the flamebird within grew at developed, the Sun ignited.

They claim that increased levels of geothermic energy are evidence of the Phoenix within the earth growing more developed, more powerful by the day. Their critics claim that the growing heat is due to undiscovered Shards that crashed deep into the earth and have been heating it from within.

Third Egg philosophy is not really taken seriously. But should it be?

>>13729642
Oooh, I do like this. Definitely another nice end game/high level story arc idea.

>>13729642

I think like the Other Egg/Black Moon, the third Egg scenario should be something hinted at but ultimately left up in the air for the discretion of individual GMs.

>>13730860
So, should we add a section to the 1d4chan wiki with GM ideas?

>>13729642
Third Egg philosophy is not really taken seriously. But should it be?

Perhaps they will take us seriously when we SUCCEED AT OUR PLAN TO FORCIBLY IGNITE THE EARTH!

MUAHAHAHAHA-eh? Oh, yes, the virgins. Put them over there with the beeswax.

>>13732224

Militant Third Eggers trying to trigger volcanic activity?

I like it.

Just to leave this suggestion again, since most of the people in this world are tanned/black maybe there should be legends of an ancient civilization that perished in the shattering of pale blond haired people, like an Atlantis of this setting.
With some people actively searching for their ruins and others dismissing it as a legend.

Okay, I was thinking some more about Subfolk and came up with some stuff.

When first the sun hatched, showering the world with Shard, one particular shard landed in the north, near the lands of the Dineh people. They celebrated this good fortune at the end of the world, and build their settlement around this fallen Shard. They named it Hearthstone and Mother Rock. It formed the centre of their city, which they simply called Home.

While Mother Rock shone, the Homelands were safe and fertile, a kingdom of ever-day. Their plants grew rich and lush. They turned a blind eye to the cries of those trapped in the night outside their borders. They built a great wall of white stone to protect what they had built, though the laments of the stricken weighed heavy on them. It was alleviated by the knowledge that they were fate's chosen, those blessed to survive and escape the end of the world.

And all was well, under Mother Rock started dying. She faded gradually, over many years. Her warm radiance stopped nourishing the plants at the far borders of the Homelands and within a lifetime, one could barely feel her light or heat inside the city walls. The Dineh panicked. Night was encroaching, and it seemed they had not escaped the end of the world, but merely held it back a little while.

>>13732654

In their panic, the Dineh consorted with ideas they would have never considered otherwise. Deals with the dark. Consorting with foul powers. Some tried to reignite the Mother Rock with kindling, others with prayer. In their final moments of religious fervour and desperation, the people seized up their priest-king and rent him apart. The last blood pumped from his heart spattered the Mother Rock and some dark miracle occured.

The Mother Rock began to shine once more, with light but not with heat. It took on a strange silvery hue. But it was lit and that was what mattered. And while there was light, there was hope.

The Dineh attempted to continue life in the new light of the Mother Rock. But every year, the Mother Rock dimmed and thus every year a sacrifice was required. They took up one of their own and cut open his heart with knives of sharp flint, offering up the heart and it's blood to the thirsty rock.

Times being hard, the rest of the sacrifice went to fill Dineh bellies.

>>13732654
Don't want to be a bitch but weren't the subfolk supposed to live underground? That's why we call them subfolk, their shard was under the earth

>>13732714

Now Strobers steer clear from the old Dineh lands if they can. When their Shard takes them that way, however, they have no choice but to follow. They tell tales of what they see emerging from beyond the White Wall.

The Dineh are now known as the Subfolk. The emerge in hunting parties wielding clubs and rock. They strike passing caravans to get fresh blood for their Mother. Strobers unlucky to be dragged away during Subfolk raids are spoken of in hushed terms, worse than even the dead.

Their appearance is shocking to those who know anything of the nightlands. Subfolk skin is white as chalk. They wear nothing more than loincloths in the freezing nightlands. They invariably have shocking lengths of tangled black hair. Their teeth are sharpened to carnivorous points.

There are a few scouting parties that have braved their way inside the White Wall and what they bring back are strange reports of Subfolk culture. Their city seems to exist in a parody of human culture; they have skeleton markets where bushels of rags are traded for handfuls of dirt. Subfolk farm and plough permafrost outside the city.

>>13732826

The Mother Stone has not been seen by the few scouting parties that have come into the city. The crater in which it landed has been seen, as well as a large trail in the ground leading to a cave mouth, suggesting that it was dragged under ground at some point.

Stories circulate about the Subfolk. Some say that they shun Shardlight because it burns their flesh. No-one has ever seen them past Twilight lands, though, so no-one really knows for certain. Some people say that the sacrificial process turns the victims into Subfolk themselves. Others say that exposure to the twisted light of the Blood Stone itself can turn people into Subfolk.

>>13732721

Yeah, I was just getting there.

>>13732602

Yeah, we had some references to Shards crashing into the sea. Perhaps a coastal civilisation was subsumed in the raised sea levels, possibly even boiled alive by the hot water?

So the question's been raised about how Strobers keep time.

One suggestion was that, being nomads, they break up the day into "shifts" so that they're always on the move. Someone's always manning the caravans, someone's always on watch. They stop to swap out horses for fresh ones, relieve the guard and so on. Thoughts?

>>13733597
It would be an interesting system, to be sure. Strobers could have three-part "days" depending on how many shifts they have, instead of having just day and night.

>>13733621

Since they travel constantly after their shard, they'd probably be at a constant "daytime" according to their precise position. Some might be always at dawn or dusk or whatever. So they can't use the position of the Shard, because they're working so hard to make it constant as possible.

>>13733597
A shift could simply be a single run of a large hourglass.

Also, d0rfs? Who regularly hunt for smaller sized shards to take home so they can grow crops and continue living inside their mountains? Also, can't have that without having a shard cluster pass over the mountain at some point each year, making them unable to leave.

>>13733657
Well, not a literal day and night as much as "walking time" and "sleeping time."

How would they determine the length of the shifts? "When everyone gets tired" is imprecise and liable to be variable depending on the person and the day.

>>13733674

We do have a subterranean race of Aztec vampires... I think there was mention of some other race that live around a shard that landed in an underground lake, creating a steamy tropical jungle-like environment. So pygmys more than Dwarves?

>>13733748
I thought the subterranean Aztec vampires and the underground jungle cavern were the same place?

They do fit together thematically, after all.

>>13733811

I don't really like that idea; the point of the Subfolk is that their Shard stopped giving out heat and life.

>>13717670
WHY IS THERE NO MENTION FO THE LUSH BLUE AND PURPLE JUNGLES OF THE TWILIGHT?

What about about the nightlands? Who lives there? What is their culture? How do they fare when going to Brightlands? Penalties to vision? Pale skin? Sunburns?

>>13733906

We mentioned the subfolk (the aforementioned albino aztec vampires) living in the nightlands and stalking Strobers.

>>13733748
You're getting your shit mixed up. The subterranean aztecs are the Submen. They're dwarves. The Vampires are a separate group, and don't actually have much fluff. Presumably they live in the abandoned cities of the previous civilization.

>>13733838
Not really. Moreso, the point of them is that they need to kill to keep their lives.

>>13733840
Twilight tends to be normal agricultural. Strangely colored plantlife should be in the Strobelands if anything.

>>13733906
Vampires live there, and they have the normal vampire issues with sunlight.

>>13733964
The Subfolk live in underground cities.

>>13734919

Originally I wrote the "Shard giving out, blood sacrifice" fluff as an origin story for the vampires. Someone else must have gotten mixed up when it came to sticking the fluff up on 1d4chan and merged them. I don't know exactly where or why the merger happened, and I'm against it personally.

>>13735055
They're not mixed on the wiki; the submen are subterranean and do the sacrifices.

The vampires are unfluffed.

If we give the vampires that backstory, then we get two problems:
1. They're not vampires any more.
2. The Submen become boring and make no sense.

>>13735112

Hang on, either I mis-spoke or you mis-read. Let me try again.

Originally we had vampire-like creatures and underground pygmys as two seperate races. I put the Shard stuff forward as a backstory for the vampires, not the pygmys. In my head, it's the pygmy's that are unfluffed, not the vampires. The word "subfolk" started being bounced around and has been confusingly applied to both vampires and pygmys, which is where I think this little spat is coming from.

How does "night-dwelling, bloodthirsty predators preying on nearby humans" NOT sound like a vampire to you?

As for the pygmys, they've not really been touched on (again, this is according to my head-canon here) so of course they're boring. This setting is like three days old. We've not had time to do everything just yet.

>>13735175
>I put the Shard stuff forward as a backstory for the vampires, not the pygmys.
The stuff in this thread you mean? The original stuff with sacrifices was of value largely because of how it made subterranean living viable. Whether that was your intent, nobody else understood that, and everyone else has thus not been operating under that understanding.

>The word "subfolk" ... has been confusingly applied to both vampires and pygmys
I... don't think so? The subfolk are the subterranean folk. The vampires are just called vampires.

>How does "night-dwelling, bloodthirsty predators preying on nearby humans" NOT sound like a vampire to you?
That sounds more like starving wolves than anything else. Vampires, are generally pretty civilized, and are not merely "bloodthirsty" but actually literally drink blood." Also the sun burns them, which is kind of important in this case

Your headcanon is not in keeping with the intent of everyone else.

And shit continues to get done.

Speaking of which, some additions to the wiki:
>"The Alchemists" added to the Concepts section
>"The Old Dineh Lands" added to the Darklands section. Note that it's only meant to serve as a possible plot hook and written as such. IT IS NOT CANON!
>"The Other Egg" added to the Tales of the Shattered Sun section.

Picture somewhat related: Dapper folk of the Holy City?

>>13733840
Because this is, and will never be, the moon of Pandora. Next. Question.

Also, more dapper folk of the Holy City.

>>13735902
Meant to say 'is not'. Shit it's been a long day. D:

>>13735522

Where did we decide vampires were civilised? Or are you talking in general? Because that's a whole different argument to get into.

>>13735847

Yeah, I think you reached a decent middle ground there. Link the Dineh and the Subfolk implicitly rather than explicitly and individual GM's can do with it what they want. Also reduces the likelihood of the pygmy/vampire argument.

What's next? Someone was saying something about an Atlantis?

>>13735925
Thanks, although I kinda want to make the Vampires perhaps a class of Subfolks. Hunters and Warriors while most of the internal classes stay underground.

>>13735925
I was talking in general.

>>13735950
This is actually a pretty interesting idea. It still doesn't really interact with the whole "vampires drink blood and hate the sun" idea, though.

Also, I think the cannibalism should not be included. The whole point of the shard requiring human sacrifices was to humanize the subfolk. Sure, they kill people, but they do it for a pretty solid reason, they need the light to live. So they're evil but not just pointless lolevil.

There could, perhaps, be more than one Subfolk group, too, and one could be cannibals.

>>13736019

Actually, the blood sacrifices corrupt the shard, which is why it changed colour and the Shard, by extension, corrupted the Subfolk. That corruption combined with massive inbreeding caused by isolationism and the night killing much of their agriculture, is what turns them to cannibalism. At least, that's how I wrote it. Apparently the idea's mutated since then.

Personally, I'm against them being TOO human. The point of them is to be the setting's monsters, the things that everyone's afraid of. People are afraid of the night because that's where the Subfolk are.

Also, should we maybe change the name? If we're making them a menace (pale death and all that) "folk" isn't exactly threatening. It sounds too wholesome.

>>13736019
I like where you're going. Perhaps the Vampires are Subfolk Hunters/Warriors gone rogue. Sometimes even the best hunters have trouble finding a meal. Sometimes they have to settle for a stray Strobe wandering into the Darklands for a meal. The effect of eating the Light-soaked flesh of a Strobe conflicts with the mutations brought upon them by the Ghostlight, causing a sort of madness and addiction to human flesh?

>>13736125
I like a degree of humanity to villains. I'd say have certain groups of Subfolk be the monsters per se, then have it conflict with a discovery that the Subfolk are just trying to survive as a whole, but only considered monsters because of those who make their brutality known to the Strobes and Tanners.

>>13736133
Oh yes, yes. I wasn't exactly sold on trying to make them true vampires, but I think we've got something here. The vampires could be a group of the Subfolk that devolved into eating human flesh. They're not really fanged blood-drinkers, but they do in fact eat the flesh and drink the blood, so "blood-drinkers" might still be name given to them. They could be outcasts even among the Subfolk society, probably exiled since they turned onto their own kind.

So you'd have the "regular" Subfolk, fearsome because of their rites and sacrifices, and then you'd have the "batshit insane Subfolk" who wander in the night and prey on humans. I like this.

And you get the distinction between civilized people with human sacrifices required by their culture and true abominations as mentioned >>13736173

>>13736212
I like this too. I wanna hear some more from Phoenix and maybe some others before I toss it onto the wiki. Also, I put an entry for the Daedalus Workshops under the City of Terec from some of the earlier stuff in the original thread.

>>13736173

Fair enough, but bear enough that they made their last "human" decisions quite some time ago. They're the end result of generations of inbreeding and mutation wrought by the ghostlight of their corrupted shard. They're not entirely human any more and that should be reflected in their morality, culture and so on.

On the vampires-and-subfolk angle, what's the angle on sunlight with them? Bear in mind the sun is broken and their culture is centred around a fragment of the sun.

>>13736212

Yeah, regular Subfolk are still scary and the wandering ones are even worse.

I still say subfolk isn't a very scary name for what's meant to be a scary thing. "folk" just doesn't click. Submen? Nightkin? Undermen?

>>13736264
LG Pally much?

In any case, I'd say that they can have an aversion to actual Light. Their eyes are attuned for the Dark and the Ghostlight (sci-fags can claim a different wavelength of light, yadda yadda yadda), and the more vibrant Light from the Shards can hurt their eyes. Maybe not their skin for short periods of time, but if they hang out around the Light for too long, they can get skin cancer or the like.

>>13736299

So it's more blinding and blistering than "catch into flames"? I can buy that.

>>13736317
Pretty much. Working on the wiki now.

>>13736353
Also, I propose on the term 'Subterrae' to replace 'Subfolk'

Yeah I could see their shard giving off Ghostlight instead of normal light. That could be the basis for their hypothetical mutations (exposition to particular rays). Combined with consuming "human" flesh, that could lead to more mutations and madness for the flesh-eaters.

Normal light could be akin to poison to them, as something in their body tries to repel the regular light rays. They could have allergic reactions that would give the impression that their skin is melting away.

Now namefagging for the sake of convenience.

One thing I'm wondering is how the lack of Ghostlight would affect them (provided we keep with the idea that they would be banished by the rest of the... subpeople).

>>13736368

With the singular being "subterran", I assume? That's better. I like "pale death" being a poetic and general term for subterran raiders lurking in the night, but not as an official term or anything. Maybe a polite euphemism for the vampiric ones.

>>13736371

Yeah, that was my logic when I was angling the subfolk towards the vampire angle. They reject natural light because they're most-of-the-way evolved to live in a decidedly UNnatural ghostlight.

>>13736406

Possibly that's why they have to resort to blood-drinking? It's the closest alternative they can find to whatever nourishing effect the ghostlight has on their warped physiologies.

>>13736125
>Personally, I'm against them being TOO human. The point of them is to be the setting's monsters,
Even monsters can be human. And ideally, they should be.

>>13736173
This is great. I say go for it.

>>13736317
Sounds good to me.

>>13736368
Sounds stupid to me.

So... What the fuck to Strobers eat?

>>13736469
Okay then. Any ideas on what to call the Subfolk other than... Subfolks?

So, who are to be the big-bads of the setting? I had an idea that involved the world's moon. I think someone mentioned that it was destroyed when the sun shattered, but perhaps a small (relatively speaking) fragment of it survived, and now a mage-empire built on the fragment who float wherever they please, stealing other civilization's sunshards and using it to power their floating continent.

>>13736529

There is life out there, under the light of the moving stars. Hardy plants that make do on very little light, hardy omnivores making do on anything that comes their way.. When their path takes them through Twilight lands, which are lush, they harvest anything they can get their hands on. They also trade massively for supplies when they can get to the cities.

But yeah, it's not an easy life being a strober. There might be a lot of temptation to eat the dead, but that'd be a big social stigma given the connection to the nightkin.

>>13736593
Do tell more...

>>13736593

Naw, it's been established that the moon is intact and the leading theory is that it's another Egg, but pitch black instead of being made of fire. No-one knows if it'll hatch, when it'll hatch or what'll hatch out of it, but pretty much every theory in the area goes "second hatching = world ending all the way this time"

We've got a lot of politicking going on in the Holy City; we could designate one noble house "resident asshole" and make them out to be BBEG?

>>13736553
Well, we could call them Dwarves, since they're that.
What's wrong with Subfolk, again?

>>13736674

They're meant to be scary. Night-dwelling, human sacrificing mutants that everyone's scared of.

"Folk" is not a scary word. It's wholesome and "aw shucks"

>>13736674
What >>13736710 said.

>>13736654
>we could designate one noble house "resident asshole" and make them out to be BBEG?
Or, they could each be assholes in their own ways, as well as each having their positive aspects.

>>13736710
>"Folk" is not a scary word.
It's a normal word. Nothing wrong with that. They don't have to be "the evil terror-wraiths of doom" just because people are scared of them.
>It's wholesome and "aw shucks"
Not really? I mean, I guess you could make it "subpeople" if you want to get all official-sounding, but I don't think there's anything wrong with using the words that folks tend to use in normally. These would be the common names that are actually used, not the fancy names that they're called in official documents. In official documents, they would probably use the poetic name, or would be referred to by observed characteristics, unless they were called by the name that normal folks call them, which is the most likely scenario.

>>13736751
Okay, the wiki will use Subterrae as the term, but will leave Sub as the shortened, colloquial form.

>>13736833

The thing is that if you're angling for a BBEG, you really need 'em to be big, bad and evil. So, yeah they can have maybe some understandable motivations, but if we want heroic PC's to feel all good and righteous kicking these guys in the teeth... we really need them to be dicks, you know? Like, a merchant house that decides to skip the middle man and just take over the city through military force, or a crazed Astronomer who tries to cause Gargonel to crash into the Holy City because he believes the city's become a den of sin.

Anyway, that said it's late and I need to sleep. Night /tg/. If this thread's here in the morning, I'll see if I can help this any further

Been reading up a bit. Getting back to the vampires' reaction to the sun, I came up with an alternative theory (apply to the whole subfolk). Their shard could have made their blood warmer (perhaps to compensate with the fact it doesn't give off heat anymore), and so being exposed to what we consider comfortable temperatures would be unbearable for them as their blood reaches extreme temperatures and they quickly faint and "dry out".

That would also explain why the subfolk moved under the ground, to avoid the passing shards' heat.

It would also make the vampires somewhat vulnerable, and thus limit the threat they pose to the Strobes (as long as they keep up with the light, they are fine, but if they get behind, the flesh-eaters come out of hiding and start hunting). Basically, is we say that the vampires are exiled, they effectively live just like the Strobes, but avoiding the shards rather than following them. We might call them the Lurkers.

>>13736911
but "Subterrae" is a lame name. Nobody would ever call something that. How the hell would a name like that even evolve? I guess it could be the official name assigned by some particularly pretentious sociologist, but it's not a name that would ever see significant use among the general population.
ALthough, if it refers only to the undergrounders, and not the hunters and vampires, that would be okay. But I think the wiki should list them by a blanket term.

>>13736959
Allright allright, calm down before you get a hernia.

We'll go back to Subfolk for now until someone else figures out a suitable name for them.

>>13736928
>The thing is that if you're angling for a BBEG,
We're not. Making one designated BBEG us bad setting design. We want plenty of characters that could potentially be BBEGs, or smaller adversaries, or even allies.
>merchant house that decides to skip the middle man and just take over the city through military force,
That's worth a few decent adventures, and it would be cool as a possibility.
>a crazed Astronomer who tries to cause Gargonel to crash into the Holy City because he believes the city's become a den of sin.
That would make a decent adventure. We could slip in a hook of that nature somewhere.

>>13736998
I think from their perspective, they would call themselves relative to their shard, since they revere it so much. The Children of Whatever, or the Whatever Kin, or something. I know I wouldn't call myself an undergroundling after deciding to live underground, I'd much rather choose something culturally relevant.

As to whether the rest of the world uses the same name, that's subject to debate. But I reckon that their move to the underground lifestyle having only occurred sometime down their history, they would already have had a name previous to that shift and would have preserved it; therefore I'd probably keep "sub-anything" out of it, even for the other people referring to them. If we accept that both "legends" are the same, I would imagine the outsiders would call them the People of Dineh.

>>13737054
And I agree with this. I don't care much for the Holy City as a whole, but as far as the houses are concerned, I think I'd personally like them better as rather equivalent in power and with both good points and dark facets. I also don't think having bold and obvious bad guys is particularly interesting, as has already been stated, at least not when developing a setting as a whole. I think for that scale, villains are more interesting when their actions are justifiable by need or cultural motivations and their being evil is relative to who is affected. For instance, the only thing that makes flesh-eaters evil is that they eat human flesh instead of animals. The same criterion doesn't make a hungry lion evil.

Allright. Sticking with Subfolk while we figure out a more suitable name. Since Subterrae seems to be a bad choice, how about Shardkin?

Also put in the Vampire and Reaction to the Light sections in there.

>>13737212
Shardkin sounds sort of okay to me - except that it could also mean baskers, or even strobers who follow one specific shard. The difference here is that the subfolk are kin to a special shard. You're onto something here, though.

>>13737252
There is a point there. Perhaps simply They of the Soulshard? Call them Them and They for short?

>>13737282
I like it.

Yep I like the sound of Shardkin but I feel that it could be applied to practically anyone in this world.

Good stuff on the wiki update.

I'll see if I can come up with some suggestions for the names, but I really suck at this. Was it agreed that "vampires" was a keeper or is it just a working name? I'd change it, personally.

>>13737293
Anyone seconds the motion?

>>13737304
Ehhh I'm not convinced but I'm not a native speaker, so I'll abstain from voting on this one. The idea is there, at any rate.

>>13737343
Oh, I know it could cause a conflict in normal English speech. Doesn't take a native speaker to figure that out. But I think the changes in syntax and speaking that a name like They could create would also signify an important cultural difference from the Me and Us of Citizen/Strobe culture.

I dunno, I think calling a group "They" is kind of... imperfect.

>>13737393
True enough. But I'm sure the civilized folk would call them Them anyhow.

>>13737360
Well I'm having a hard time imagining this as a functional name for both outsiders talking about them AND them referring to themselves, but if you're confident it'll work out, I say go ahead.
I'll just drop "People of the Soulshard" as an alternative for easier syntax.

>>13737405
That's still not great.

The civilized people would probably give them a name based on what they do. What they do is kidnap people.
Snatchers?

>>13737408
Sounds okay to me.

>>13737419
Ooh! Bandersnatches!

(Also their accepted name being People of the Soulshard doesn't clash with just referring to them as Them and They between the more superstitious of common folk. "You know, 'Those' people"...)

>>13737454
Are they fruminous?

>>13737484
Very furmious.

>>13737483
This could work. They would see themselves as BEST SHARDFOLK and everyone else would see them as, well... Them. Maybe throw a Kim Jong Il analogue in there? (Joking about that last part, really)

>>13737408
why not have those be two different names.
They're name for themselves being "they of the shard" or translating to that.
Others call them something else, possibly derogatory. Pale ones, subfolk, darklanders

>>13737537
In any case, let's agree on a name and get on to another part in woeful need of filling. Either the City of Terec or the Tribes of the Strobelands

Just throwing in a basic idea for an adventure location (that probably sucks):
They say that somewhere in the Darklands there is a lake, its waters of a deep black color, murky and quite dense. A cooled sun shard rests in the middle of it, with a castle carved out of the part that is above the black water. What wonders could the castle hold? What - or who - lives there? Only those who dare venture there will find out.

>>13737579
I demand a bit of writefaggotry about it. At once!

>>13737537
>Kim Jong Il analogue
Could work.

>>13737567
Seems like we agree on People of the Soulshard.

Twilight has only one line, I'd prioritize that most highly.

>>13737579
Sounds like a decent hook to me.

>>13737596
I would but I am off to university.
>perish, thasons
What are thasons?

>>13737604
People of the Soulshard sounds like a winner. Now, on to the Twilight. It seems to be the middle land between the Shardstreams and the Strobelands. They seem to be touched only by enough of the Light to keep them safe from the real nasties out there in the Dark between the Strobelands' Shards. Go go go!

>>13737613
Bah! Foiled by university! Consider this homework then.

>>13737623
Well... they hold the farms that feed basically everyone besides Strobers and the People of the Soulshard. I guess they're rural?

>>13737579
Definitely sounds like a wicked plot hook to me. Just crossing the lake to get to the shard would probably be fairly perilous on its own. Whatever carved a castle out of it would probably be fearsome and possibly wield some form of power (magic? not sure how much of it we're putting in this).

I vote for adding this plot hook to the wiki (that's what the Tales section is there for, I think?).

>>13737729
Subfolk changed to the People of the Soulshard/Them in the wiki.

>>13737623
I vote for adding this location in the Darklands section. Also, subsequent writefaggotry would go into the Tales section.

>>13737782
The Castle on the Shard added under Darklands on the wiki.

And it seems like things have gone dead for tonight. Alas, I need to wake up in the morning, so off to bed with me. I pray this thread will still live on to the morn!

>>13737986
Perhaps the being inhabiting the castle could be a sort of a heat vampire who rose to such power that allowed him to drain the heat from the shard itself. Perhaps it's intelligent, perhaps not. Perhaps it's even a count, sort of a Shattered Sun version of Dracula.

>>13739478
I'd much rather leave said secret inside to be up to the whims of the DM, but I wonder where you'd go with a Dracula analogue.

don't have much to add, but don't want this to 404.

>>13737655
The Twilighters are on the border between light falling from the stable shardstreams and the Strobelands, correct?

>>13744667
As far as I understand it, yes. They're on the very edge of the stable light of the Shardstreams. I think rural folk would be allright, since I'm sure the moderate light would be best for agriculture.

>>13747223
Also expanded a little bit on the Twilighters themselves. However, I'm running into a bit of a block around them. What sort of interesting things are there about a generally rural people? I need some plot hooks with them!

>>13747367
Alchemist combining plants and stardust? I'd try writefagging that idea, but I ain't too great at that sorta stuff.

>>13747422
Hmmm, wouldn't know what to do other than Feed Me Seymour. Wonder if anyone else is up for it.

And now the Alchemist Guild is fleshed out a bit.

>>13747586
Be extremely vulnerable to spontaneous combustion? Grow out of control and threaten to drown the world in choking jungle? (Even the dark parts, they make their own light!) Both?

>>13747975
Looks like some interesting side effects there. Wonder if you can expand on them a bit. Maybe get someone to write something on it? As for me, gonna get to drawing something.

>>13747996
I'm not the anon who suggested the idea. Just throwing out some ideas. It just seems like plants saturated with pieces of the SUN would be prone to catching fire at inopportune moments. And since they produce their own heat and light, they would spread like... well... wildfire.

>>13747996
Picture for the City of Terec on the wiki now.

>>13748504
One more bump for a while. More input is always welcome!

>>13748774
If I the college is shut down again tomorrow, I'll try writefagging that idea about the stardust and plants. Can't promise anything of quality, but I'll give it a shot none the less.

Le bump

I might have something to contribute. reading through the thread and the wiki first to get up-to-date on the setting.

>>13753077
Take your time. Doesn't seem like the thread's going anywhere anytime soon. Also, the wiki has a ton of angles to take the setting in, so enjoy!

Saving the thread from an untimely 404. Waiting for impending writefaggotry.

>>13754808
College didn't get shut down and I have the combination of student government, campus housing meeting, and work tonight. Ugh. I'll get to it eventually, sorry. ):

I was thinking. Assuming this is a setting used in D&D, how do the Shards fit in with Clerics and Paladins? Favoured Souls? Are these people empowered by shardlight?

Eventually we'll have to come up with some setting-specific classes and Prc's as well as creatures if this is meant for D&D. (Which seems the best fit in my opinion.)

Also, for the creatures of the dark lands, I'm imagining and angler that has a luminescent light to draw in prey, similar to some fish in the deep seas where there is no light.

>>13756982
Well, I'm gonna assume this as well. Paladins would more likely be those who fight with the hope of someday reassembling the sun. Pretty much, warriors of hope and humanity rather than the usual law/chaos/good/evil axis.

As for the wiki though, let's try to keep it as a setting only, so others can crunch it with other systems or make their own for it. From there we can link to the systems crunched for it in the wiki.

>>13757010
I kinda like that idea. Feel like doing a bit of a writeup of said monster race?

>>13757265

Yeah. I'm just saying because we've not really mentioned much in the way of "magic" beyond Stardust, so I'm wondering where wizards etc would come from.

I'm not sure I want ALL magic to come from the Shards, I think that risks making the setting a little too one-note. But certainly SOME people could, say, derive power from the shards. They could be the Suntouched, the natural casters (Sorcerors, Favoured Souls etc) They might be the people who have been branded, or might arise where people live in close proximity to their Shard.

>>13757623
Yeah, that could cause some problems, but it could work. For instance, the Shardwatch have the Rite of Phoenix's Blood where the tattoos can cause extrasensory powers related to the Shards. Also, the People of the Soulshard could have unique powers due to the Ghostlight of their Shard.

>>13757805

Sure. I remember someone saying that the Twilight were prone to mysticism due to their weird positioning between Night and Day?

We could maybe leave general notes in the wiki for things like "Rangers are common among Strober culture, as the ability to live off the land is highly prized" and "Twilighters are prone to unusual insights that lend themselves well to the Monk or Wizard classes."

>>13759336
Speaking of the Twilighters, has anyone any ideas about how their society works. I put in there that they're 'officially' serfs under the Cities, but more or less rule themselves and resist almost any overt takeover attempts by the Cities. I still don't know how to write them into the setting.

Question: Why haven't people learned to spam Continual Light? Even if it isn't as good as sunlight, it's still light.

>>13760249
We're still figuring that out too. I'm sure that we can eventually fluff a reason why in due time. I suppose we're more concerned with getting a basic sense of the world fleshed out before we get to the really nitpicky questions first. Maybe there's something about Shardlight that cannot be replicated by other light sources (a'la Ghostlight). Maybe Shardlight is required to fuel such magics.

We just don't know yet outside of that it would make whatever system it is in retardedly broken. Maybe you can help us with that conundrum?

>>13760249
Well, easiest solution: Doesn't exist in this setting.

>>13760304
True enough, although I'm sure there's folks (read: Alchemists) who tried to store the Light in devices to venture into the Dark. While the devices certainly work when made by a legitimate Alchemist run, they can only do so for a limited amount of time before they have to leave - don't want a Lantern to run out of juice in the middle of the Darklands, afterall. Not to mention that they can only put out a lesser degree of the Light if they want the device to run for anything more than a couple seconds.

>>13760358
OOH! And we can link this to the plant plot hook too - Alchemists trying to replicate their adapted photosynthesis.

>>13760380
And one last bump before bed. I'd be surprised if the thread's still here tomorrow.

>>13760380
This.

>>13762060
Any thoughts on it?

>>13762142
Only that it's a good way to explain why Alchemists were trying it in the first place. You might even get a few quests involving finding plants better suited for the job and the like

Perhaps there are various forms of magic. Or, better yet, it's only found in those who have lived their whole lives under the soulshard. That way the power of magic borne of blood rituals contributes to the fear and mysteriousness of the pale skinned terrors from the depths.

Perhaps the new light source is always a source of intrigue. Maybe the city of Terec is the only place with "sunstones" lighting their inner passages, compounds that burn with alchemical fire as bright as reflected sunlight. Unfortunately, the compound requires stardust to create and the light does eventually run out, but the alchemists are constantly seeking a new way to synthesize a portable light source that doesn't rely on the dwindling supply of wood being burned for fire.

Christ, is this thread still going? Wow.

Okay, so we're still not entirely done on magic. What about divinity? We have this big Space Phoenix and there could be more in that vein, but I really get the feeling that they're pretty apathetic towards humanity.