So... no devastators but otherwise codex.

Each battlegroup has four battle companies and the chapter has no reserve companies of any sort.

Does this mean that the chapter is like the howling griffons in that every marine is a fully trained tactical marine? Are the battle companies 10 tactical squads, 6 tactical and 4 assault or 8 tactical and 2 assault?

Something else?

We still need work on fleshing out the companies of Primus and Secundus.

>>13820673
Well, we do know that they keep companies slightly above strength to account for sleepers. So just adding a handful more to the codex numbers might make sense.

>>13820331
...that is not at all what the color scheme should look like. That looks like some sort of Mardi Gras Marine, charged with the sacred task of protecting float ccnvoys of the Mechanicus and the equitable distribution of the Imperium's bead supply- which is running perilously low, as no new beads have been created since the Dark Age of Beadology.

tl;dr: Emperor's Nightmare is cool, those colors are not them, they look like some Mardi Gras knockoff.

>>13820748

He said no colour scheme bickering. Its been going on all day, and nobody should care this much.

>>13820748

Oh god, are you trolling or are you new here?

>>13820772
I... I couldn't help myself. I'm sorry.

Just a reminder, but the writefag thread is

>>13815969

So check it out.

The only thing I can contribute is that they are overzealous about their colours/iconography because of the kinship they feel with the Emperor - who they think sits sleeping on his golden throne, protecting humanity as the first Dreamer.
Sleepers who have died in their sleep are sometimes depicted doing battle alongside the Emperor. The sleepless have a sanctum in which every member of their fallen are entered in a tome listing them as having rejoined the Emperor in battle. There is a statue/mural of the first Sleepless "awakening" to the Emperor fighting in the warp, after he was slain in battle. Only those who fight hard enough in life may join the Emps. dreaming army.

I'm really curious about how this chapter will be received by SM fans who don't browse /tg/..

>>13820711
Yeah totally. But what I'm asking is the squads themselves: what kind of squads are they?

Fluff wise I really like the idea that the chapter is like the Howling Griffons and every single squad is technically a tactical squad (who occasionally or even somewhat frequently don jump packs, but who are nevertheless tactical squads and trained as tactical marines).

The idea in this case being that because any given marine might spontaniously fall asleep with only a minute or so's notice, every marine must be fully trained to cover for any of his battle brothers. Even to the point of knowing how to land the thunderhawk and doing some basic combat maneuvers with it. The techmarines might even instruct their brothers in matters they otherwise wouldn't. Like a rotating cast of aprentices maintaining the dreadnoughts. Additionally each marine would take care of his own wargear and so on. All that standard independance stuff that so many chapters do.

I think it makes sense. It also lets us feel really "codex" in theme on the individual level as a chapter while still having battle companies that include no devastators, oversized battlecompanies, lots of dreads etc.

Someone needs to add links in the "Writefaggotry" section of the article on 1d4chan.

Remind me, does the Blood Angel death company have oversight by more lucid brothers? I imagine it would be better to have someone coordinating the frothing lunatics.

Same deal for the Sleepless. Maybe they're watched over by venerable dreadnoughts? Coming in pairs, should one sleep.

>>13821666
The Blood Angels chaplains watch over their Death Company.

For us it seems to be more the Apothecaries' duty as they do their best to sedate the sleepless marines into comas between battles but it almost never works and they have to keep upping and upping the doses of tranquilizers.

HOLYSHIT SLEEPLESS DREADNOUGHTS

What happens to a dreadnought on the rare occasions when their catalpsean node starts completely degrading AFTER they've been put in the sarcophagus? I mean rules wise we simply have a death company dreadnought but how are they treated by their brothers in the chapter?

>>13822052
Very. Fucking. Carefully.

>>13821666
Just an observation but I think almost every single 666 get in the last couple days has been in one of these threads.

The Emperor is watching us now, just as he showed His Will with doubles as we rolled for the Rites of Battle in the first thread. The Emperor guides our hands brothers!

>>13822100
So does this mean we now have pairs of August Dreamwalkers in Iron tending to the Sleepless?

...possibly with outsized narthecum CCWs?

How do the Emperor's Nightmares get along with the Space Luchadores?

>>13822052
You know how they treat Chaos dreads?

Probably not too dissimilar.

>>13822188
It would seem so? Even your post and the one you're quoting end in doubles...

Apothecary dreadnoughts would be badass.

>>13822240
Give them voxcasters so their deranged howling booms over the battlefield? Fear and pain are beyond them, and the maddened screams tell it. Nothing the enemy has in store can compare. Nothing they do will dissuade them.

>>13822270
I like this. It's a fully functional narthecum, but large enough that it can contain and inject a larger dose in a smaller amount of time. Maybe even give it some kind of poison effect in battle. It's the only thing that can tranquilize the Sleepless.

>>13822271
I like the idea of them not so much being into maddened howling, just...absolute stream-of-consciousness from a fundamentally broken mind.

"I AM THE FAITH THE FURY I AM THE GUARDIAN OF THE DREAMERS I AM THE BEGINNING I AM THE END I AM THE EMPEROR'S WILL MADE MANIFEST I AM THE DREAMER IN HIS DREAM THAT CANNOT DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM DREAM BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY THE DREAM AND THERE IS ONLY ME. PRAISE THE EMPEROR! FOR THE DREAMERS!"

I think that would be much more ohdeargodwhat.jpg than just inarticulate, dumb, screaming.

>>13822293
Shit yes. And it still retains the "nothing can halt these guys" pantswetting terror. Especially if destroyed units and mangled dreads are still shouting as if nothing happened.

"I AM THE EMPEROR I AM THE LIGHT I AM HE AND HE IS I AND IT IS HIM AND WE ARE UNDYING TRUTH CARRIED FORTH FROM THE LANDS OF MAN ACROSS THE DARKENING DEEP."

Tentatively added the ideas for the overseeing dreadnoughts and the sleepless-dreadnought voxcasters.

>>13822312
Oh God. It's like "TANKRED...ENDURES...", except insane.

Just a reminder for general inspiration: Intimidation is a 100 xp advance all the way up for the Emperor's Nightmare. These guys are Scary As All Fuck.

They probably intimidate even other Astartes, although not neccissarily in a disturbing way, just through sheer force of will.

...And also in a disturbing way when you have a hulking eight foot tall armoured giant that hasn't slept in over three years passing the time on long voyages by playing games stabbing a power knife between his fingers at blinding speeds...

>>13822378
"Brother Stefan, what are you doing?"
"Counting the stars that have passed through this porthole since we embarked."
"Surely, that is an impossible tas--"
"128,276. 77. 81. 82. 84."

>>13822392
Oh god. I don't even want to think about how painfully heightened their perception would be after a couple hundred years of the catalpsean node degradation.

Poor brother Stefan would be so unbearably aware of every new fraction of light from the most recent star passing...

Blood Angels Death Company are forced to relive the dying moments of their primarch eh? Pussies.

>>13822449
Giant, statue-like figures. Unmoving. Sometimes joining one another, and just staring out that window. They were there when you first saw them. They were there when you disembarked. Just looking out into the void, in congregations of twos and threes.

>>13822449
*Couple years, rather. My mind was on some writefaggotry I'd just read about a brother who reckons he's been awake a couple hundred.

Couple hundred years would be a good stand in for like Mephiston or Sanguinor or something obscene.

>>13822312

> I AM HE AND HE IS I AND IT IS HIM AND WE

THE EMPORER IS THE WALRUS GOOGOOG'JOO

Sorry, couldn't help myself ;_;

>>13822378
I'm gonna write up a shock and awe Primus Tactical marine starting character for Deathwatch right now.

I'll buy the full +20 to intimidate right off the bat for 300 of my xp and I'll make Strength and Intelligence his highest stats. I guess he could intimidate through Fellowship too through subtle gestures and body language so I'll make that his third highest. I'm also gonna make his armour history be Terror Be Thy Friend to give him the Fear (1) Trait.

Motherfucker will make you shit your pants with a glance.

But how can I make him scarier still?

>>13822100
>>13822666
Holy shit another 666 get

Everything I see on this Emperor's Nightmare sounds pretty Tzeentch to me. Heretic.

>>13822778
Howso?

>>13822778
... But the chapter's sworn enemy for a thousand years now is a daemon prince of Tzeentch!

>>13822690
Does that like, make purchasing the full +20 Intimidate compulsory on starting Emperor's Nightmare characters or something, effectively limiting our characters to 700 starting xp?

>>13822666
You best be taking Corvus armor. Don't forget to honor the primarch!!!

random writefaggotry:

Everyone on the deck snapped to attention, mirroring the Aquila on the their chests with their hands in humble salute. Some gave a slight bow, some even averted their eyes but all offered whatever respects they could.
All eyes followed them as they made their way across the staging deck. Some in the drab armor of the Night, others in the bombast of the morning, and all bearing the silver X slashed across the face of their helmets. They marched, chainswords and bolt pistols in hand, some looking too eager to use them.
The Restless, The Dreamless, The Waking Dead. Whatever they were called they all shared the same grim fate, they had awoken one day, only to be cursed to never be touched by The Sleep again.
For all their astartes enhancement, they were still mortal men. Their minds corroded, ground to mush by the endless waking hours of the material world. Most of them weren't much more than beings of muscle and instinct seeking the Final Rest.
Gideon mouthed a prayer as they filed into one of the Chapter's few Stormravens. May the Emperor's Peace find them all.

>>13822836
Of course! Is there even another kind of armour? I'm going to model him after the battle brother in the OP and give him a plasma pistol down the road.

>>13822836
Fuck yes. I love all the fluff on the sleepless. Great stuff!

Also something no one should forget:

They are a Raven Guard chapter after all. They should have the same defects as them. Including the super pale skin and whatnot.

This actually kind of works aesthetically in my head anyway, seeing as how most of them are probably running around with huge dark circles around their bloodshot eyes.

Paint helmet-less marines accordingly...

>>13822666
Aha! The 700 remaining experience gets a tactical marine two fellowship advances. So he mostly intimidates through having an imposing presence and forceful personality. Sounds appropriate. It's more subtle than outright menace so he wouldn't be rolling strength to Intimidate all that often.

>>13822907

I think I read something about them not being pale in the first thread, though I might be wrong.

>>13822830
>Does that like, make purchasing the full +20 Intimidate compulsory on starting Emperor's Nightmare characters or something, effectively limiting our characters to 700 starting xp?

Okay maybe not compulsory but I think it would be a good rule of thumb to spend at least 100xp on Intimidation when creating any Nightmare. It is the Emperor's Will after all. They are all fucking scary.

Do they have lucid dreams? If not perhaps before a marine can become an apothecary he needs to be able to experience lucid dreaming, so he can fully take care of or administer his battle brothers.

Also, have we fleshed out what the chaplains role in the chapter are yet?

>>13823173
Some do, some don't. Many of the dreams are prophetic and out of the marine's control. For the most part Nightmares are capable lucid dreamers though.

I think it's more the chaplains and librarians that shepard for the dreaming flock in both the Materium and the Immaterium. The Apothecaries have their hands full dealing with the Sleepless.

I name all of you honorary res/tg/uardians for keeping the thread alive without more color scheme bickery. Plus writefaggotry on the wiki! Sons, I am not disappoint.

I think the "all marines are tactical marines" is a good idea and sensible conclusion to draw from the info we have on the Nightmares. Also, maybe they simply don't have reserve companies because whoever is resting is effectively in reserve?

Sleepless Dread is fucking scary. But then, so is the idea behind the August Dreamwalkers, what with skimming the edges of sleeping and waking reality.

OH FUCK.

I just realized that Dreamwalkers are the real reason for the lines in that Santa Claus song that go "He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake."

just to say I will be continuing my writefaggotry in >>13820789 later. But I need /tg/'s opinion on the Nightmare's chapter keep. is it on top of the main hive? or a separate fortification? what's The Wakes meeting chamber like?

My idea was that their fortress monastery was situated in the mountains away from the hive. On a clear day from the upper levels of the hive spire it possible to see the fortress grim outline squatted atop the mountains. Shuttles, Thunderhawks and other transports can often be seen buzzing in and out of it

The Wake chamber is a large circular room with a high ceiling that can be opened to the elements letting in the clear mountain sky, the room is large enough to house full half the chapter should it be required, (although this has only happen once in the chapters history) the floor is tiered to allow those at the back to see the massive plasteel encased map table (after venerable Dreamwalker Melek smashed the previous stone one by accident. I his defence he'd slammed his fist into it hundreds of times before, just never as venerable elder, and old habits die hard)

expanding on what someone wrote in the previous thread about caves etc iirc.

The heart of the mountain range is honeycombed with caves and tunnels, which the nightmares have converted to use as dormitoriums for the sleepers and Dreamwalkers, all which over by the chapters librarians.

>>13823746
Becoming a dread in this chapter is serious business. You're either a veteran dreamwalker, too valuable to lose, or you're a champion slowly losing your mind, having become Sleepless, but in the time of your remaining lucidity you've earned a great deal of combat accolades. Most likely because you throw yourself into suicidal missions to try and die while your mind is still yours.

...Fuck, that makes every Sleepless dread a Doc Holliday, trying to get himself killed and being too badass to do it before he ran out of time.

While we're voting on shit, do people want to officially okay/nix the Sleepless wardens? Paired August Dreamwalkers in Iron, possibly wielding dreadnought-size narthecum as CCWs to help stabilize their flock.

>chapter, esEProl
It's not easy to patrol in this chapter, Captcha, I don't know who you've been talking to.

>>13823897

I vote yes, to all of it

>>13823946

Clearly a mother whose son was raised to be an Aspirant of the chapter.

Purple and yellow are the regal colors of the Nightmares' homeworld. Only the planetary governor and the noble families closest to the court may wear clothes with those colors.

On festive occasions, the hives fly great banners of purple and gold, and a procession on Emperor's day is always accompanied by a few Nightmare marines from Primus Company (as per the Figurehead role we rolled back in chapter creation). This has led to the color purple being named "Astarte" in local dialect.

>>13824081
Even better, when they refer to the stars, it's gleaming yellow on a curtain of deep purple. The colors have become a metaphor for space, and the universe itself.

>>13823897
"I'AM YOUR HUCKLEBERRY, HERETIC!

>>13824089
>>13824081

Very cool. That reinforces the Pride in the Colors thing both ways. In fact, I think the people of Icelus, despite it being a hive world, are a proud people with a strong heraldic tradition.

I like the restriction of the colors to the elite (though I also like to think that mothers of aspirants are elevated to a low noble position through a sort of life annuity when they give a son to the chapter).

>>13823897
Yeah I'm for all of it too.

The way I see it there are four basic groups of dreadnoughts in the Emperor's Nightmare:

The first and foremost are of course the August Dreamwalkers in Iron: Librarian Dreadnoughts, Warp Guides and storytellers.

Second are the other specialist dreadnoughts. A few chaplain and techmarine dreadnoughts but mostly apothecary dreadnoughts who carry out comparable duties for the Sleepless as the Blood Angels Chaplains do for their death company. They have specially made nartheciums that deliver usually-lethal doses of powerful sedatives and they care for their Sleepless brothers with the care and tenderness of a reverend scattering ashes on a grave.

>>13823897

This chapter would produce some of the greatest swordsmen and tacticians ever.

Purely because of >>13822449

And they'd be dicks about it too. You'd draw in close combat against one of their veterans, two moves in he's got your tells down pact like he's been watching you train for years. Four moves in and he's calling you on them, because they are so painfully obvious to him that it almost hurts.

I can just imagine the briefings with Imperial commanders.

>>13824153
Third are the fire support dreadnoughts, fullfilling the tactical role of devastators in other chapters. Probably at least a few rifleman dreadnoughts per company and maybe a pool of other dreadnoughts at the command of each Lord Adjutant. I see the fire support dreadnoughts actually being perminantly seconded to individual companies and bearing codex devastator squad markings and numbers as if they were part of that company. They hero inside is from that company and the dreadnought is only really part of the Night Owls in the sense that that's where the sarcophagus came from.

Last are the waking dead. The Sleepless dreadnoughts. The node decay can overtake a marine at any point in his life and these tortured souls not only have to cope with the horrors of hyperawareness and fluidity, they have to do it through infrared autosenses, sound amplification devices and enhanced hydraulics. They see and experience a reality we can't even begin to imagine. They are far and away the most dangerous weapon the chapter has at its disposal but their insane, unpredictable intelligence, lost grasp on reality and obscene combat skill make them an extreme safety and security risk to the entire chapter. More than one strike cruiser has been destroyed entirely by a Sleepless dreadnought using their flawless knowledge from counting every rivet of the ship to evade recapture while slaughtering what it was convinced were vile traitors from the Word Bearers legion trying to take over the engine room...

>>13824160
>the walking dead
Most goddamn appropriate epithet for them ever.
Okay, given the apparent consensus, I'm going to say we've got ourselves another bit of canon in what we've hammered out thus far. Excellent work, gentlemen.

>>13824160
Remember how Thule sometimes mistakes one battle brother for another.

Now imagine he doesn't mistake one for the other, but straight up see's them as if they were there.

It wouldn't be uncommon for a Nightmare dread to be having long, drawn out conversations with battle brothers who died centuries ago. Woe are those who call him out on it, because how dare you refuse to acknowledge the presence of the emperors hero's!

>>13824154
THIS

is why they are so fucking intimidating.

This explains why Intimidation and interrogation are the cheapest skills we can buy. Every Nightmare can read the world and the people around them like a storybook.

>>13824160

Dreadnoughts are stored unarmed (literally, their arms and legs are removed). The only time a Waking Dead dreadnought would be a danger to the chapter is when he is activated. Which I suggest the Techmarines would do as close to the battlefield as possible.

Also, I don't think dreadnoughts need _increased_ doses of sedatives just because they're dreadnoughts. Remember, it's just a husk of a man inside the coffin, and he is kept alive by a delicate balance of nutrients and hormones. Alter that balance a little and you get sedation. I think rather than Apothecary dreads you'd have Techmarine dreads caring for the Waking Dead. They can tinker with their homeostasis.

>>13824184
And they'd be driven to point these flaws out to their battle brothers. Amongst the chapter's own it wouldn't be so bad. A few bouts' of fisty cuffs here and there, nothing to serious.

But amongst deathwatch it would get old fast. Whilst some take criticism of their methods in their stride, others tend to tire of the incessant commentary...

New trait, Eternal Vigilance. Bonus to spot checks?

>>13824212
The narthecum are less for the dreads--though that raises a good point--and more for the normal Sleepless. Delivering a colossal knockout dose that calms the Sleepless following battle's end.
For Dreads, maybe the paired watchers are either lay-priests so they can modulate the chemicals in Sleepless Dreads, or they specially fit narthecum sockets to the backs of their chapter sarcophagi for a quick injection.

>>13824222

I can see a Nightmare marine getting to an Ultramarine in particular. They see themselves as the pinnacles of perfection, so they'd be the most irked when their flaws are pointed out...

>>13824184

I think we should amplify that tendency by making it so that they test potential recruits for attention, awareness and perception. They recruit not just those with great physical strength (although obviously that's required), but they also look for people who are very perceptive and quick to learn. The Sherlock Holmes types.

>>13824231
And on top of that, there's the chapter belief that some of their brothers have fought alongside the Emperor himself. To outsiders, that's arrogance and insult.

>Julián, prieo

Julián Prieo, seconded to the deathwatch and making no friends.

>>13824212
Underestimate the walking dead at your own peril. A machine with two legs and mechadendrites can do many things. Having techmarines turn off parts of the dreadnought body would probably be how they'd contain it yeah but keep in mind some of these sleepless ones were techmarines themselves. Or librarians. Or librarians who shared their brothers dreams and, since having become sleepless dreadnoughts have simply watched their techmarine caregivers and learned all they have to offer.

It's possible you slightly misunderstood the point of the powerful sedatives on the apothecary dreads. They're for the dreadnought to administer to power armoured battlebrothers whoh have been lost to sleeplessness. Not to other dreadnoughts. Those ase you say are best left in the hands of the techmarines, as dangerous as that is...

>>13824231
Pfft? Just an Ultramarine

Call a Templar on a certain tell in his battle stance. Then keep calling him on. Insist that it is a flaw that must be rectified.

An Ultramarine will tell you to suck a lemon as he's trained under the best teachers the Codex Astarte offers. A spacewolf would call you a wanker and spout something like "Even if they had a thousand years to study fighting me, they still wouldn't last the first blow"

A Templar? He'd call you to account and you'd be dueling him for a straight week because you can read his moves like they were paced out on the floor, and therefore dodge every hit, and he'd be too proud to back down.

>>13824251

"Some of them believe the Emperor himself stood with them in their battles."

"Yeah, in their dreams!"

"Exactly, brother."

>>13824183
"I CARE NOT THAT THE ENEMY IS UPON US, I HAVEN'T SEEN BROTHER PRETORIO FOR THREE CENTURIES. THEY CAN WAIT!"

The Waking Dead are truly mad. For the safety of their brothers they are kept powered down and armless. Watched over constantly by the Master of the Forge.

291.M40. There is a lone sleepless librarian dreadnought in a long, dark chamber among his kind. They are tended by many reverent techmarines and servitors. Their autosense eyes are dark but the charnel broken bodies inside their tombs are wide awake and restless, listening acutely to the muffled sounds of work going on outside the dark.

Suddenly and without warning the librarian strikes, invoking the machine spirit of his armour to jolt to life! The mighty war machine rises from one knee and crushes a nearby techmarine beneath his foot in a single fluid motion as he pulls to his iron body the weaponry and ammunition he has telepathically been holding for the last twenty-eight minutes and sixteen seconds. In moments the librarian has gunned down the entire room, telepathically tossing aside cover even as his remaining brothers flee behind it.

But he does not see his brothers. They are shape changers. Vile xenos beasts that only wear the shape of his brothers. He butchers the rest of them for the honour of the chapter and vanishes into the labrynthine service vents, attacking in guerrilla raids over the next month until he has crippled the battle barge. He knows if he lets the aliens proceed they will return the ship to his homeworld and bombard it with cyclonic torpedoes, obliterating all life.

In desparation, he bonds with the machine spirits of the engine core, destroying the gellar field even as he overloads the warp engines, banishing the nightmare creatures back to the hellish plane they came from.

He does not remember his own name but it matters not. Even in death he serves. He has saved the chapter. He has saved his home. He may finally rest eternally beside the Emperor with honour.

Question : How exactly does the Scolastica Psykana helps the Nightmares ?
Do they provide psykers to help those Sleepers that are not Librarians fight in their dream ?

I believe the Nightmares' Librarium trains its own psykers, so that kind of limits the connection to the Psykana... what do you think ? I don't think this was discussed before.

>>13824425
Good question.

We just kinda said "they help with the dream stuff and training psykers and stuff" and didn't really flesh it out too much.

I could see them acting as sort of like... psychic nurses, caring for those among the marines that recieve prophetic dreams and helping them to interpret them, allowing more concise strategies and tactics to be made in preparation following a more refined interpretation of the visions.

>>13824480

Diviners. Lot and lots of diviners, practicing oneiromancy. Also, probably some astropaths (the Adeptus Astra Telepathica is still part of the Scholastica, I believe) to teach librarians and marines the intricacies of the Astronomican, so as to provide them with a guiding light in the Empyrean.

>>13824480
>>13824510
I saw these psykers as both diviners and telepaths.
Diviners could have the added benefit of trying to predict when Nightmares are going to sleep, thus advising who can or can't go fight.
Telepaths could monitor the sleeping Marines, but also lend them power to shield them from warp beasts (though that would depend on how powerful the psyker is).

Regarding that last statement, what happened to our idea of the Dreamcatcher ? Everyone sounded cool with it, there was even a story in which a Marine used it, but it's not even mentioned on the 1d4chan page.
(On a less related note : the wiki sayd the Chapter Master is called Randolphus, but some people still call him Randolf. Did we agree on which it is ?)

For anyone who wants something to do, the wiki could use with updating to the organization section:

Mentioning the training of every marine as a tactical marine to be able to cover for any of his brothers, even pilots, in the event of sleep overtaking them. How there aren't really assault marines, just tactical marines that sometimes wear jump packs. Etc etc.

The inclusion of the summary of the four basic types of dreadnought, including that the Nightmares field actual squads of dreadnoughts in company colours with codex devastator markings in place of actual devastator squads. (in both Primus and Secundus companies)

The Fluffy Bits section could do with some elaboration too:

The stuff about the gold and purple heraldry of the nobles on the hive world, how they view it as a metaphor for space and golden stars and for the dreamscape.

The incredibly intimidating and discerning nature of the Nightmares, how they unsettle even their fellow marines by being so perceptive.

And if someone wants to add all the the cool stories from this thread into their own links in the Writefaggotry section at the bottom that'd be good too.

The wiki is coming together folks! Keep up the good work and keep those creative juices flowing.

>Pic related. It's a Nightmare terminator dreaming he's slaying daemons.

>>13824584
Nah we didn't even discuss it. It was just sorta changed to Randolfus over time and no one objected. I think it started out as a typo or something.

I kinda like it. It makes it slightly less direct in the reference and gives it that faux-latin feel that the rest of 40k has. If anyone actually does object we can just switch it back.

>>13824584
I'm all for bringing back the Dreamcatcher. For Deathwatch balance purpose, though, we should make the chapter trapping stats "choose one," even if the Nightmare in question has book, catcher, and blindfold.

>>13824631
Yeah you're probably right. We could consider it to be "choose one of the three to be his focus from which he gains a crunch benifit" though. They can still have all three but each marine will need the different objects more or less throughout his career.

OH! Perhaps they are allowed to choose which of the three is their focus each time they achieve a new rank? That way you get to experience them all as the character evolves and grows.

>>13824687
Maybe they choose a specific stat effect when deploying on a mission. They can guess at what will help most, but never know for sure.

>>13824696
Either or. Per mission might be a bit too frequent. Per rank might be a bit too far apart.

It depends on whether you want to fluff the rules change as a major shift in paradigm and spirituality on the part of the marine or if it's simply his circadian rhythms shifting, causing him to be more in need of a different object.

>>13824696
>>13824687
>>13824631

How about this (keeping the boni small and in line with the other trappings):

Dreamcatcher of Great Portent: +3 to Tactics (Any)

Dreamcatcher of the Vigilant Ancestor: +3 to Dodge

Dreamcatcher of Subtle Insights: +3 to Awareness

>>13824735
Well, with Devastator gone, that doesn't leave many options. How about it's chosen by marine path? Either choose one, or choose one to omit. You have access to the others, in that case.

I'm beginning to suspect that the hallucinations and delusions that plague Nightmare marines in advance stages of Waking, where they see their own brothers as xenos and heretics in disguise, are actually of Tzeentchian origin. That's not to say that the chapter has fallen to him, but rather that they are particularly vulnerable to him/dedicated to fighting him.

>>13824591
I'd love to add the latest stories to the wiki, but I don't know how to create a new page =__= Could someone explain it to me, or is there already someone adding them ?

>>13824755
Oh that's certainly partially true. The minions of Khaliman are as much the chapter's enemy as the Nightmares are theirs.

But the Thousand and One years that Randolphus banished Khaliman for are almost up. Soon he shall be unbound and free to walk the Materium once more, torturing the captured mind of the chapter master that his servants present to him as a gift and sending his daemonic minions out to seek revenge on the favoured sons of his nemesis.

>>13824874
Good question. I don't really understand the 1d4chan editing interface either.

>>13824880
And that opens up a story idea. The Crusade Somnambulant, as August Dreamwalkers in Iron quest through the Warp to find their Chapter Master's soul.

>>13824880

Is that why so many venerable members of the chapter have been cursed with the Waking of late? And why so many have succumbed to Sleep for months or years at a time, some seemingly never recovering? And why the Librarians are seeing more and more visions and portents, experiencing the dreaming world and the waking world merging together?

Every chapter needs an apocalyptic vision. Now we have one.

>>13824905
It's not too hard. I'm an inexperienced wiki editor and I got the first four stories up.
Basically, decide on what you want the page to be called. Go to where that page would be, if it existed. Then edit the blank page, and then direct an internal link to it. Wiki code is available in the help guide, but all you really need is [[ ]] for pagelinking. Someone more experienced in editing can tidy it up later.

>>13824874
>>13824905

As with any other wiki, simply create a link to an empty page (ie, one that doesn't exist) and then follow that link. Alternatively, just type the page name into the URL bar.

>>13824749

what if the Dreamcatcher was something the marine he himself created upon first becoming a battle brother. In game this would mean that he could reform his Dreamcatcher, however doing so would require at least a day of mediation and supplication (ie only done between missions and only as his rank increases to represent his new perspective of himself)

>>13824930
>>13824937
Thank you both, I guess my ingeniosity is less than average +_+ I'll do my best.

>>13824946

I think there could be a ritual within the Chapter where each individual marine that has been in a prticularly memorable battle meditates on that battle, and sleeps. In the dream he is given a vision, some kind of revelation that pertains to the battle he has experienced and can be used in battles to come. The revelation is represented on the dreamcatcher.

In DW crunch terms, maybe a Dreamcatcher modification can be attempted after a mission where the Marine expended all his Fate Points, representing a particularly harrowing experience.

>>13824946
I like that, actually. It's personal.
Marines always have the choice between the dreamcatcher or either the blindfold or the book, depending on their marine type. You still pick what trapping you gain benefits from each mission.

>>13824966
I like this. It has a nice balance between all the things we've discussed.

Also, doubles, so it may or may not be the Emperor's Will.

Dear Fourth Thread,

You are the best thread. You stay on topic and debate rather than argue and everyone is so creative, constructive, collaberative and just plain on the ball!

Pat yourself on the back. We're not even 100 posts in and we've already accomplished so much. Thanks for all of this, everyone.

Sincerely,

Anonymous.

>>13824966
This gives me an idea. Several chapters have loaned relics that their donated marines can requisition. We need to come up with one or two for the Nightmare.
One might be an extremely powerful catcher made by a Dreamer. It might also be good to have a weapon. A bolt-pistol?

>>13825042

A bolt-pistol that supposedly appeared in the hand of Veteran Sergeant Julian Prieo following a particularly intense dream battle with the followers of the Changer of Ways. He claims to have used it in the dream, and to have awoken still clutching it. Regardless of the truth of the legend, this curiously ornamented bolt pistol has unmatched accuracy when used against Tzeentchian daemons and warp-spawn, and never jams.

No dreamcatchers, though, they're so individual and linked to the Marine that wearing another Marine's dreamcatcher is kind of sacrilegious.

>>13825065
I was thinking that, but also that a particular fallen hero might have his dreamcatcher used.
I'm liking the pistol. It's like the opposite of a warp-boltgun.
How about for the other artifact, the blindfold used by the very first August Dreamwalker in Iron? I was going to say the Chapter Master, but he wouldn't have been affected by the gene-mutation.

Maybe he had one as a symbol of station anyway?

Added this thread to the archive and the wiki.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13820331/

>>13825093

Dreamcatchers of fallen heroes of the chapter, I think, could be collected and placed in a reliquary in the monastery's chapel, where other marines can meditate on them.

>>13825093
The first August Dreamwalker's blindfold would be a great chapter relic.

I'm also sorta against using the dreamcatchers for this as they're supposed to be so personal. Then again, why would it be a chapter relic if it weren't an exception to the rule?

Speaking of dream battles, I think we need to fluff these out a bit more. We know that some of the Resting claim to have fought at the side of the Emperor himself,and while that's pretty col and all, it's also all that we have so far from what I can see.

The question is, do we want to set up fluff/guidelines for that at all,or do we want to leave it vague and myth-like for outsiders?

>>13825131
BAM! Here we go.

Perhaps Chaplains can bring them into battle as holy relics of sorts, brought along to display and motivate but no one would actually dishonour their original owners by trying to reuse them. In this way a couple dreamcatchers could still be chapter relics in Deathwatch but not disrespect the traditions of the chapter.

>>13825166
My thought exactly on the dreamcatcher. For the blindfold...
Lifted Veil of [name]? Purported to show the bearer, if he is attuned to the Dreaming, the way things truly are. Instead of a -20, +20 to Perception, and maybe a force field? Someone more familiar with Deathwatch can and should do better.

>>13825198

Ah! They can put them on the battle standards, together with purity seals. That way they inspire marines during the battle. It's like their heroes are fighting with them.

>>13825175
Vague and myth-like to outsiders sounds good for the most part but we should probably set up some ground rules in the fluff, yeah. Just some basic stuff. The equivilant of "don't make your personal chapter one of the two missing original legions and don't make your chapter master one of the lost primarchs" to keep it somewhat grounded while still encouraging the mind to wander and... well, dream.

>>13825229
So basically stuff like
a) the Emperor will not personally greet you the second you enter the dream.
b) you can't dream up 5 dradnoughts and a battle barge because you do not fully control the dream even though you may be a lucid dreamer
etc?

>>13825175
>>13825199
>>13825229
>The Dreaming

On this note, although it has been slightly touched on before, I move that we theme the chapter's interactions with the warp, both awake and dreaming, after the Dreaming of Aboriginal mythology. Both in legends of the chapter and their dogma and in the aesthetics of the setting (how the warp bends to the chapter's preconcieved notions of what it should look like)

>>13825229
I suggest taking a page from Dante's description of the celestial bodies in the Divine Comedy. One thing that stuck out for me is Beatrice, Dante's guide, telling him that she isn't cross, it's that if she smiles, the radiance of heaven will incinerate his body. Same deal with looking at/getting close to the divine.

They can never be sure they saw the Emperor. It was too bright to tell, and they couldn't look long. They might get a word or two, or a feeling.

The warp remains dangerous. But to them, despite the dark and frightening aspects, they can wander in relative safety many nights. Maybe part of their good standing with the Scolastica Psykana involves their wandering Dreamers intervening to protect nascent psykers or vulnerable minds from the negative influence the warp can hold.

>>13825273
Yeah exactly. Just some simple stuff to discourage derp and encourage awesome.

>>13825277
Motion seconded.

>>13825284
This is a great idea and it has the added bonus of not making us have to rely too heavily on the aboriginal dreamtime imagery and so on

>>13825284
Damn, I never made that connection, but that's perfect.

they can't be sure that they saw the Emperor, but SOMETHING must've been there. Proof of that is that even after extensive dreaming in the Warp,they still retain some sanity when they wake up. So you can neither fully proof or disproof the Emperor's influence.

I've been reading the stories linked at the bottom of the wiki and they're all awesome. I'm especially loving all the dreadnought tales.

But one thing caught my eye in particular and I wanted to reintroduce the topic for discussion.

The story of Venerable Gavroche makes mention of /tg/'s famed stealthnaught design.

Given the chapter's heavy reliance on dreadnoughts, and given their ability to produce and modify the chassis at the forges of their fortress monastary, it would seem that the stealthnaught has indeed found itself a chapter to call home.

IIRC this was briefly mentioned like three threads ago but it wasn't talked about much. I could even see the Nightmare Techmarines producing their own special mark of dreadnought armour that is lighter, quieter and nimbler than Ironclads or standard dreadnoughts. Possibly based off of the old pre-heresy marks.

>>13825437
Hell yes, especially considering the chapter's fondness for either shock and awe tactics or stealth.
Stealth dreadnoughts would be a thing of terror. Silence, unmoving and unseen in darkness until they come alive in an explosion of activity, and vanish as quickly as they came.

Imagine one dread moving with impossible speed and silence, clearing a room of cultists one at a time.

>>13825437
>>13825466
B-b-but I like the boxy dreadnought design of the now.

>>13825466
Yeah. They're actually the perfect fusion of both the chapter's stealth and shock and awe tactics.

>>13825492
All right, then. When I get hold of the Rites of Battle rules, I'm going to make Gavroche as a stealthnought of the Nightmare.

>>13825486
And we'll keep it! We'll keep the hell out of it! The vast majority of dreadnoughts in the chapter would be the well known MK3 and MK4 patterns, but given the resources at their disposal, and the tactics of the chapter, they would doubtless have made such modificiations. And again, the preheresy dreadnought marks are the perfect place to start.

>>13825466
Ohhhhh god... can you guys imagine a stealthnaught that joins the waking dead?

You had better fucking hope you have that thing restrained properly with multiple redundancies because if it ever breaks lose during travel EVERYONE will die desperately trying to find and capture it again.

I'm liking this informal naming contraction that has caught on of calling the chapter "the Nightmare" for short and individual marines "Nightmares"

The dreamcatcher still hasn't been added to the chapter trappings. How are we feeling about those individual rules?

We can iron out the details later, lets at least leave a placeholder entry about the dreamcatchers on the wiki.

>>13825540
I think a stealthy dreadnaught would focus more on blending in than sneaking about, like pretending to be a part of the terrain or something like that.

>>13825638
Stealth also involves being where your enemy isn't looking. With their insane acuity, Nightmares would be able to keep track of these places and maximize the time their bulky frame stays in them. From there, it's just a matter of not moving and letting themselves fall into the scenery.

>>13824946
I just had thought on that. What if instead of a marine only being able to reweave his Dreamcatcher when he levels as I said here>>13824946 but instead after a particularly harrowing mission as >>13824966 suggest, in game represented either by losing one or more battle brothers during the mission or returning with less than half the fate points he started it with


also are we going to fluff up some captains/senior battle brothers to be use in writefaggotry (The Wake etc

>>13825638
>>13825652
Yeah totally. Stummers and chassis modifications would take care of the noise aspect but you're still a fucking huge walking tank.

Active camoflauge and netting would play an important role and the stealthnoughts would use their incredible perception to work out where the enemy was not looking and simply stand there. I see them spending their time still planning out their next actions and then moving in several quick leaps and bounds when they know that no one is watching, silent as the grave thanks to the technology of stummers and disturbingly agile thanks to the machinations of the techmarines, before suddenly becoming stock still and fading into the background as their 360 degree autosenses tell them that an enemy sentry is turning their head.

>>13825716
I like either a) you can reweave your dreamcatcher after a mission where you burn all fate points by spending like a day meditating and some other stuff or b) you can reweave it each time you gain a rank (for a total of 8, one at character creation) by spending like a day meditating and some other stuff.

Either way I like the idea of it being a Big Fucking Deal for each marine to reweave their dreamcatcher and it is something they only do for very important reasons.

We seem to have a couple characters already but we could use with more.

Venerable Gavroche is certainly one. I don't think he should be on the Wake though. He's our badass field agent. He's highly respected and all that, perhaps he even pilots the first ever prototype of the stealthnought mark dreadnought armour, but he doesn't seek a position of leadership. The writefag who created him may wish to offer input though.

So... Does the Guard recruit from the planet?

>yfw combat between a chaos dread and a sleepless dread

>>13825864
No the Imperial Guard don't recruit from Astartes homeworlds.

That does raise an interesting point though. The planet would have some sort of PDF. What are they like?

>>13825638
>>13825652
>>13825737

OH FUCK. Fellow res/tg/uardians, do you realize what this means?

This means that Nightmare dreads are pic related.

"Sergeant Cooper, is that boulder closer to our fortifications than it was when I went into my tent?"

"No captain, it remains just in front of the treeline"

The two men turn away from the bleak landscape to discuss logistics for a moment, "No, no I'm sure it's closer. Look now! Were not those bushes in front of it not a moment ago?"

"Which bushes captain?"

"The... oh forget it. The war's getting to my head that's all. I'm getting paranoid in my old age."

They turn towards the meagre camp again.

"Oi! Harker! Get up off your lazy ass and fetch us some caffeine!" The traitor captain turns back to face his sergeant. "You want caffeine serg--KHORNE'S BRASS BALLS LOOK OU...!"

But it was already too late. The modified dreadnought had vaulted the makeshift fortifications in a single disturbingly agile leap and the officer's last words were cut off mid sentence by the muffling void of the stummer field.

Hm...so how'd you model a Nightmare dread?

>>13825897

>No the Imperial Guard don't recruit from Astartes homeworlds.

Although there are exceptions. Codex: Space Marines says
>Just like other worlds in the Imperium, each world of Ultramar raises regiments for its own defence. Most worlds in the Imperium are obliged to provide regiments for the Imperial Guard when required, but Space Marine homeworlds are an exception. In the case of Ultramar, however, the Ultramarines rule so efficiently and are so prosperous that they maintain several hundred regiments ready and willing to join the Imperial Guard when the need arises. As a result, regiments from Ultramar have fought all over the galaxy, often in campaigns alongside the Ultramarines themselves.

There are whispered stories of a Nightmare who fell to Chaos. His former battle brothers purged his physical body from the universe and removed any reference to him from their records.

However, a fragment of his twisted soul escaped deep into the warp and in recent centuries some have had dreams of a large figure wielding lightning claws.

He's says that he is coming for them.

(I guess it/he focuses on latent psykers (Perhaps potential Emperor's Nightmares) and causes and feeds on the emotions of their nightmares then takes their souls if they die in their sleep. Also the demon that caused this guys fall would be related to the Tzeentchian daemon price. Basically a jumbled of ideas I'm tired and should sleep.)

I'm kinda curious why /tg/ decided to make the Sleepy Marines first using the Deathwatch chapter generation. I would have thought the Angry Marines would have been up first.

>>13826440
Chapter generation is rolled for randomly.

>>13826440
We rolled for random chapter characteristics and discovered that they fitted the sleepy marines. Simple as that.

>>13826362
>>I'm tired and i should sleep
ENJOY IT BROTHER, FOR THOSE WHO WILL NOT SLEEP UNTIL HIS LIGHT SHINES ON THEM AGAIN!

Hey, hey, hey...

Something people seem to be forgetting.

They cannot control their sleep. They're forced to be awake for days or weeks at a time due to their mutation with sleep coming pretty much randomly without much warning.

This kind of takes sleep away as a traditional thing beyond some lucky Marine having the ability of an Actual Dreamer. Lucid Dreaming type stuff should probably be the realm of the Librarians as they're the manipulators of Warp Energy after all.

Remember, The Sleep comes for everyone, it is involuntary, but if you're lucky, you can still fight.

>>13826864
So, basically :
- All Marines sleep whether they want it or not, it happens at random times and for a random period.
- There are some of these Sleepers who can fight Chaos in their dreams because they have psychic powers. What about the others ? Do they just have regular sleep ? Also, those who fight during sleep aren't exactly resting, so they should be even more tired when they wake up, right ? O_O
- Some rare Marines with psychic powers can force themselves to fall asleep, to dream and fight in this dream.
.... or is there still things I didn't get ?

>>13826922

I don't remember the psychic powers to go to sleep thing...but I could've missed it.

And those without Pysker abilities can still fight in dreams, it's just rarer and considered a gift or great honor.

On quick question: are we doing anything special with Chaplains, or are we just leaving them more or less standard?

I was under the impression that a particular marine could feel themselves swaying either towards sleep or restlessness, that eventually, one will win out over the other and the marine will permanently become a dreamer or one of the dreamless.
Or do all marines eventually fall towards the dreamless?

You faggots are so dumb.

Their sleep dysfunction isn't sudden.

>"Battleh brothorz, Speeess Muhreens! Tooodheey thhee ennneemy is at aaauouuurr dooa-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It's unexpected, yes but not sudden.

>"Sergeant Iticus. I feel the cover of sleep coming close."
>"Fine. As soon as we rotate the Waking squads and Sleeping squads, you will be allowed to leave the battle."

It would take extra strategies and tactics. But it wouldn't be LOL RANDUMB EH FELL ASLEEP AND DOESNT AFRAID OF ANYTHING

Someone should do a small recap of how things work in this chapter, mainly defining the terms :
- Sleep
- Rest
- Sleepers
- Dreamers

and the following roles :
- Chaplain
- Librarian
- Apothecary

>>13827286
Yes, we know that. Thank you for your efforts, though.

How about for the wake who guard their brothers in battle take on the aspects of them? Ie they seem to be asleep like their brothers. However when you threaten the Sleepers with a dishonorable death they one shot you for your hubris.

In fact maybe they could be like that period? Until they move you can never be sure if their awake or asleep.

It's funny these guys I'm sure actually inspire troops around them by inaction. Can here the commanders now. "You complain guardsman? Notice how His space marines don't even consider this engagement worth waking for!"

>>13827300
- Sleep: The circadian rhythms of the Nightmares are extremely strange. The exact length of time in the cycle is difficult to predect but most healthy nightmares average about one month of active duty followed by one month of a coma like sleep. They may dream, and may recieve prophetic visions occasionally, but for the most part it is a fugue and there is little brain activity.
- Rest: Battle brothers who are unable to sleep may still rest by meditating with their blindfolds. This, along with drug suplements from the apothecaries, keeps the marines surprisingly healthy.
- Sleepers: A catch-all term for any Nightmare that is not awake.
- Dreamers: Nightmares with psychic potential. Not powerful enough to become librarians, but they have a degree of warp sensitivity and are trained by the librarians and psykana to better control their lucid dreams and more clearly understand the portents and prophecies they dream. When lucid dreaming they may explore the warp in a manner not dissimilar to astral projection.

- Chaplain: Considering the chapter the chaplains are actually pretty normal. They are responsible for carrying the chapter's relics into battle and for maintaining the Nightmares' ties to their homeworld and traditions. Unsurprisingly the light of the Astronomicon features heavily in their dogma.
- Librarian: Sheppards, guiding the dreamers. Loremasters and scryers. They project their minds into the immaterium to safeguard their dreamer brothers and to act as messengers between the real world and minds dreaming in the warp.
- Apothecary: In addition to normal duties they are primarily charged with keeping as many members of the chapter's circadian rhythms stable as possible. They must be able to recognize the signs of the Sleeplessness early on. The five or six Apothecary dreadnoughts in the chapter work in pairs to herd units of the Sleepless brothers into battle and carry heavy duty sedatives to subdue them should they turn on their own.

>>13825897

Since we've established that the noble houses use the purple/yellow heraldry, I think their elite military would be something like the Swiss Guard from the Vatican. Maybe a bit silly looking with the yellow and purple, but you better believe these fuckers are elite.

>>13827679
I like this a lot.

You can tell how badass a military unit is by how silly they look. Berets are a silly hat but I'd bet you'd never dare tell a green beret that.

Swiss guard style PDF troopers with halberds and some kind of very good pistol seems perfect from where I'm standing. They're mostly just paraded around in their funny regal hats with purple feathers but they're also trained to the highest standard possible and overseen by members of the Emperor's Nightmares themselves.

>>13827666
ANOTHER 666 get?

This is getting ridiculous

>>13827679
I rather like this idea. Gives the populace a bit of character

>escanda Journal
Yes captcha, the Escanda Journal is a popular newspaper on Icelus

>>13827732

This would also transfer into the mindset of the Nightmares. Ever since they were children they knew that the combined colours of purple and yellow are elite, to wear these colours means you are the best. This could probably be the cause of some friction between Primus and Secondus, Primus would be a lot more arrogant and use their heightened perception to have an almost Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children outlook on how they should do combat, while Secondus is mour dour, and they see Primus as blowhards and prefer to stay focused on their job rather than showoff.

The friction between the two would be nothing that could risk dividing the chapter, it's more the rivalry between two really close friends. They jab at eachother and they don't agree with all their methods, but the way they treat eachother humbles them, keeps the ties between the battlegroups strong, and makes them strive further and further to be the best.

>>13827666
Thank you SO much for this. It feels much clearer.
If you could just clarify two more terms, I'd be extremely pleased and would even go as far as updating 1d4chan :
- Watchers
- Dreamwalkers
(also, if I understood correctly, lucid dreams are some sort of visions of the future, correct ?)

Since there are Apothecary Dreadnoughts for the Sleepless, do they still require the attention of regular Apothecaries, or not at all ?
*yes, I am asking too much questions*

Great work res/tg/uardians!

This chapter is a veritable force of nature.

Waking dead and stealthnoughts are fucking terrifying. As if the chapter wasn't intimidating enough by their very nature (and cheap advancements)


Do we currently have any drawfags in our midst? Technomancer are you still around?

Anyone want to take a shot at drawing some of those smaller pre-heresy mark I or II or whatever dreadnoughts modified into stealthnoughts with stummers, camelioline cloaks and master crafted nimble hydraulic limbs?

We could also use art of the Waking Dead. Both are very unique compared to the relatively "normal" librarian dreadnoughts or the squads of riflemen dreadnoughts that take the place of devastators.

Pic related is probably good inspiration for the walking dead, I don't have many pictures of pre-heresy dreadnoughts for people to reference for the stealthnoughts though.

Anyone have pre-heresy dread pics they want to dump in the hopes of inspiring some stealthnought drawfaggotry?

>>13827885
Glad it was helpful. If you feel up to it, want to add a glossary somewhere on the wiki? That would probably help newcomers keep things straight.

- Watchers
Wakened marines, perferably ones who have just woken who are unlikely to fall asleep again any time soon. They stand guard over their sleeper and dreamer brothers. Think of them as an honour guard for everyone currently in a coma for whatever reason. Some watchers hide amongst the sleepers and pretend to be asleep themselves while others guard doors and so on. Any marine, pretty much regardless of rank, may be called upon to perform the duties of a watcher at one time or another.
- Dreamwalkers These are the dreamers who are astrally projecting themselves into the warp. The August Dreamwalkers in Iron are the librarian dreadnoughts that act as dream guides when exploring the warp, even moreso than normal librarians do. They spend whole centuries asleep and roaming the warp with their minds before being woken again and called to battle once more.

>(also, if I understood correctly, lucid dreams are some sort of visions of the future, correct ?)
The exact opposite actually. Lucid dreams are simply dreams you can control. The visions of the future, the prophecies that the dreamers sometimes get, are almost entirely OUT of the dreamer's control and basically just get forced into their mind for them to experience whether they want to or not.

Since there are Apothecary Dreadnoughts for the Sleepless, do they still require the attention of regular Apothecaries, or not at all ?
The Sleepless are administered to by the entire apothecarion. In battle, and pretty much any other time that the Sleepless are being given weapons there are always Apothecary dreadnoughts around to subdue them quickly should they try to kill their brothers.

You can never ask too many questions.

>>13827981
Oh but one more thing it is the duty of the techmarines NOT the apothecaries to tend to the Waking Dead (the dreadnoughts who have succumbed to Sleeplessness). The apothecaries will come by and administer what drugs they can to calm these mighty warriors, but for the chapter's safety the techmarines halfway deconstruct each Walking Dead Dreadnought between battles. They are stripped of their weaponry and power sources and are trapped within the calm, night-like blackness of the sarcophagus. Their senses however are so heightened that they can hear everything going on outside their iron tombs with perfect clarity.

>>13828047
*WAKING dead. Made a typo once and juuuuust in case I want absolutely zero confusion.

>>13828047
It wasn't about who tends to the Waking Deads, but who tends to the Sleepless in general.
Thank you for bringing up Techmarines though, I had forgotten them in my questionning... *adding it to the wiki*

Since we're asking questions:

Do all Nightmares become Sleepless eventually or is it split between some becoming sleepless and others becoming sleepers?

I know they switch between the two normally. I mean once their flaw really starts to manifest strongly.

>>13828179
No not all. Some Nightmares will sleep soundly their entire lives but they are the lucky few.

Overall I would say that the chances of becoming one of the sleepless are slightly higher for the Nightmares than becoming a member of the Death Company is for the Blood Angels.

It definitely happens too often and the chapter mourns the death of their fallen comrades in arms each time. A rare occurence in the Imperium: new members of the Sleepless actually attend their own funeral, before they are too far gone to set their affairs in order. This is one of the most sacred duties of the chapter's chaplains and though it makes all involved uncomfortable the whole company will attend to pay their respects.

>>13828249

Thanks. But I suppose I was really asking if there is a flip-side to the sleepless in the form of a permanent comatose state? Outside of the dreadnoughts that sleep for centuries at a time.

>>13828135
>*adding it to the wiki*

Looks great mate. One thing though, The chaplains, apothecaries and techmarines probably shouldn't be in the glossary since everyone knows what they are, if not the duties they perform in this chapter.

Probably best to move those three entries to the Organization section. Stick 'em all between "The Wake" and "The Battlegroups Primus and Secundus" Seems like the most natural place to put them.

>>13828346
Ah. Well no and yes.

Chapter master Randolphus is the only member of the Nightmares that is in a perminant coma. He simply has no mind within his body. It's trapped in a gilded hourglass on some tzeentchian horror's table deep within the warp. As you say the closest that the other marines come to perminant sleep of any sort are the hundred year naps that the dreadnoughts take.

>>13828363
I put them in the glossary because of the differences, but I guess you're right. I'll get to that immediately.

>>13827666

I honor your triples, fellow res/tg/uardian, but I'll humbly object that "Rest" and "Sleep" were used interchangably up until now, and I'm not sure the distinction serves a greater purpose. At the very least, I don't think we should be talking about capital-R Rest for the meditation thing -- which I like -- but stick with it for the dreamless fugue. If at all, the distinction should be that between Resting and Dreaming.

>>13828397
Gotcha, thanks!
These guys will definietely be in my DW game come RoB

>>13828397
That said, the idea of marines who can never wake up again is mostly unexplored ground in terms of us res/tg/uardians brainstorming. If something sufficiently badass can be fluffed up around them we could certainly consider it happening on rare occasions.

I don't think we should simply include them just for the sake of including them though.

Hmm, would Battlgroup Secundus leave behind Sleepers if they retreat? The enemy thinks thy are dead and does nothing with them, then get a nasty surprise when they wake up.

>>13828454

Not sure if there's much to be gained from comatose Nightmares. If anything, it's a cautionary tale against Tzeentchian mindfuckery: "Beware the Daemon, for only Randolphus the Arch-Dreamer could survive its treachery, and even he sleeps still!"

>>13828422
A fair point to be sure.

What if rest was amended to include the dreamless fugue as well?

So it's basically the same: Everyone "sleeps" of those a small group "dream" and the majority merely "rest". Those who are "awake" (as well as the Sleepless before they're too far gone) can also "rest" by just taking it easy with their blindfold on but it is nothing compared to the calming fugue that comes with true sleep.

Basically the same thing as before but I think the minor clarification resolves your issue. Thoughts?

>>13828475
I have never known of any army iRL or 40k that does 'nothing' with the bodies of their enemies. That gene-seed is as good as gone.

>>13828454
When the idea of seperate Primarius and Secundus companies came about, I always thought that the difference between the two was that the former could feel themselves growing more and more restless, whereas the second could feel themselves growing more and more tired. Until either they finally started to feel tired and be pushed to a Secundus company, or they fell asleep.

>>13828540
I disagree with this explanation. IRL, resting isn't the same thing as sleeping. The Marines can rest with their blindfolds, but those who sleep are wholly and truly sleeping ! (and from those who sleep are some who dreams, on that we agree)

>>13828544
While an interesting theme to play with given the dawn and dusk nicknames, I don't think we ever really had the battlegroups bear any connection to the state of the marines within them. Marines from both companies are affected by the sleep or lack thereof in the same ways.

At most we have scouts usually deploying alongside Secundus and the majority of the Sleepless deploying alongside Primus. So in a way yes, Primus warhosts tend to contain far more "restless" brothers than Secundus ones. But these brothers are officially already dead and don't count as part of any company.

>>13828583
Alright. Then the blindfold is simply something calming and has no term or word to describe its use. It can be left out of these definitions:

All those who sleep are at rest. A black fugue with no dreams. Sometimes chemically induced by the apothecaries to ensure the marine will get as much out of it as possible.

And of course those who have psychic potential are "dreamers" and when they sleep they actually do dream. They stay the same.

How's that? Everyone happy?

>>13828540
>>13828583
>>13828654

That's simple and still encompasses all we know about the Nightmares so far. On the wiki it goes, I say!

>>13828607
I think there's an important distinction to be made between Nightmares who are restless and those who have joined the ranks of the Sleepless. From my understanding, restlessness is a natural part of the Nightmare's functions. That many marines are restless and jittery and high-strung from lack of sleep. But eventually the sleep will overtake them, only for them to return some time later well rested and less jittery.

So... anyone want to discuss their ideas for their next Deathwatch characters?

Who's going to be running a Secundus marine? The Dusk favour stalker pattern boltguns but you can get one soon enough...

The shock and awe of a Dawn marine was already touched on earlier. All 300 xp worth of intimidation advances seems practically compulsory.

Anyone going to run a librarian, apothecary or techmarine? How about a chaplain?

As a general rule I think every nightmare should try to take at least the first Intimidation advance at creation. Just to represent the fact that we're all a little unsettling due to such heightened perceptions.

>>13828696
Quite so. I was just trying to reuse the word. You know.

Every brother becomes more and more restless the longer they are awake but most of them can still find solace in sleep again, though perhaps not for months at a time.

Amusingly, and perhaps somewhat ironically, some among the Sleepless are actually so keenly aware of their own movements that they can stay perfectly still for days, staring out of windows into the void of space.

>>13828767
>As a general rule I think every nightmare should try to take at least the first Intimidation advance at creation. Just to represent the fact that we're all a little unsettling due to such heightened perceptions.

Not to mention the twitchyness and wild eyed looks that come with it, and the mad gaze born from weeks or months without sleep.

>>13828882
So Nightmares don't actually get tired? They can feel when sleep is coming on, but they never actually grow sluggish or exhausted?

hey elegan/tg/ents, this is all coming along brilliantly.

Anyhoo had a thought about the nightmares within the Deathwatch, I think they should be restricted from become Deathwatch dreadnought simply because of the risk of the battle brother eventually becoming one of the Waking Dead is to great.

An unfortunate side effect of the Nightmares' rule of Icelus is that all recaf has been banned. It's just not considered in good taste by the Hive nobles, especially because it tends to drive the Sleepless into fits of apoplectic rage.

>>13828957
We're called res/tg/uardians in here my friend.

I'm not sure I agree or disagree with that. On the one hand, the mere rumour of a psychotic, insane genius walking psychic ninja tank that thinks you're a daemon and will banish you to the warp or die trying would be enough for the Inquisitors to try to disuade the deathwatch organization from putting any Nightmares into their own dread chassis.

On the other hand the Nightmares build their own dreadnoughts and have a whole lot of them. Not being allowed to play as one, given how important they are to the chapter seems kinda sucky.

Two things to keep in mind 1. it's not any more or less common for a dreadnought to succumb to sleeplessness than any other marine at any time in their life. 2. The Waking Dead are literally the most dangerous weapons the chapter has at their disposal. If they are aimed at a real enemy instead of their brothers in arms they can rip the heart out of an entire army single handedly. That is something that even the most cautious inquisitor would give consideration.

>>13828666

FFFF-- a triple six, again?

TRULY WE ARE BLESSED BY THE EMPEROR'S PRESENCE, BROTHERS.

I realize it says no color scheme bickering in the OP, but it *really* does look like Mardi Gras colors.

>>13828951
They grow physically exhausted after activity as normal. Marines on a "tour of wakefulness" (for want of a better phrase) use their blindfolds to dull the senses and meditate to relieve physical fatigue from their bodies. It doesn't come anywhere close to being as good as any kind of sleep --real or drug induced-- but it helps in its own way.

And the do get tired, unfortunately they also get more and more perceptive and aware of their surroundings at the same time. So the longer they're awake the more tired they are and the more heightened their senses and reflexes become. This leads to intense jitteryness and twitching because their minds want to sleep but are constantly being bombarded by more and more information.

>>13829076

Or maybe Tzeentch.

>>13829035
res/tg/uardians...cool

I understand what you saying however iirc the fluff for Deathwatch dreadnought states that they become permanently attached to the Deathwatch and will never return to their chapter.
with that in mind it was my thought that both the Deathwatch and the nightmares them selves would rather their fallen brothers be interred in the chapters own dreadnoughts, and not risk a dreadnought becoming one of the waking dead away from the chapters techmarines, apothecaries etc

>>13829076
It is starting to get a bit weird isn't it? One hell of a coincidence.

>>13829115
It's commonly associated with the Emperor, what with being the chapter number of the Grey Knights and some other things too IIRC. But who knows. Tzeentch is an unfathomably cunning foe. Regardless. It sure is happening a lot in these threads.

>>13829138
That is a very, very practical consideration.

Nevertheless, I'd rather leave it in the GM's hands as situation dictates rather than make a hard and fast ruling on it in the chapter fluff. I think a LOT of people in here want to play an Emperor's Nightmare dreadnought/stealthnought

Speaking of stealthnoughts, anyone want to take a stab at the first draft of rules for the Icelus pattern stealth chassis?

Things to keep in mind:

This special mark is based off of the STCs for the smaller, more nimble and less heavily armoured pre-heresy dreadnoughts.

The Master of the Forge and the chapter's most senior techmarines master-craft the hydraulics, joints, limbs and so forth, allowing for a profound depth of locomotion and flexibility. This is both so that the dreadnought can quickly contort into odd shapes to more closely hug terrain and so that it may leap and bound as quickly as possible when no enemy eyes are upon it.

The built in stummers project a small cone of unnerving silence around the machine. This can be turned off of course, such as to spookily announce one's presence with the snapping of a twig underfoot.

In the jargon of tabletop rules I'd imagine them being much like a venerable dreadnought except AV 11/11/10 or at most 12/11/10 and having the Fleet, Move Through Cover and Stealth USRs. I have no idea how to convert that kind of feel into Deathwatch though.

Also: any drawfags want to take a crack at depicting some stealthnoughts?

>>13829195
yeah, it could simple be fluff away by having a techmarine of the nightmares already permanently attached to the Deathwatch thus allowing for dreadnought nightmares within their ranks.

also I've added the dreamcatcher fluff to the wiki if everyone is ok with it

Just throwing in my ¢2, but the blindfolds should be of the sleep mask variety, pic related.

Unless you meant those since these can also be called a blindfold. Though drawfags should note the distinction, since a blindfold lends more of a "blind monk about to kick ass" image then a "about to get some shut-eye" image.

>>13829530
I think the blindfold were to be a trip of tanned leather taken from one of the creatures that in habit Icelus. hunted and caught by the marine himself as part of his noephyte training.

or am I making that last bit up

>>13829530

This is absolutely hilarious. I think we should go with it.

>>13829572
strip not trip

>>13829588
And I think we should stick with the single strip as I pictured the marines sitting in a meditative pose rather than just laying flat on the ground. Which is what I picture when I look at the sleep mask.

>>13829572
>>13829615


You mean like a huge fucking sewer rat? They live in a Hive World. Even though their world seems oddly nice for a hive world, most things skinnable for leather would be kinda gross to make such a important item out of. Might as well inlay it with eye-crust (Hmmm, while gross, maybe we can do something with eye-crust. Stored by Apothecaries perhaps?). Besides, you ever sleep sitting up with a mask on? Like on a plane?

You're entitled to your opinion, and apologies if this sounds whiny. Just pointing stuff out.

>>13829344

> In the jargon of tabletop rules I'd imagine them being much like a venerable dreadnought except AV 11/11/10 or at most 12/11/10 and having the Fleet, Move Through Cover and Stealth USRs. I have no idea how to convert that kind of feel into Deathwatch though.

Needs Chameleoline Coating, like in Radical's Handbook of DH (Counts as Chameleoline Cloak, +20 to Concealment tests, arguably Shadowing too, and the wearer counts as one range bracket further if standing still), Stummers (+30 to Silent Move), a higher Tactical move speed and possibly Sprint, Preysense Mask (Cooling Capillaries covering joints and armor to keep them from coming up on IR sensors and whatnot).

Probably S70 (14), 40 Agility, maybe down to 24 AP or so (Dreadnoughts should only be 28-32 AP anyway.)

>Randolf
>Randolphus
>It makes it slightly less direct in the reference


Who is his name supposed to be a reference to?

>>13829737
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Carter

>>13829615
Let's be honest. Even though GW is making things super grimdark, 40K has always been a parody of sorts. Making the blindfolds into highly revered sleep masks would add a sense of levity. Besides, they'd still probably be decorated to the nines with Purity Seals and whatnot.

>>13829737
Character from Lovecraft's dream series.

I'd suggest that we keep the blindfolds strips of cloth, rather than a sleep mask, if only because of the thematic of being space knights and warrior monks. Everything's ritualized about it. That said, if people think the mask is better than the blindfold, I'll submit to their wishes.
>>13829138
For dreadnoughts of the Watch, I'd imagine there's an understanding with the Ordos Xenos that any brother who stops sleeping is to be considered dead and returned home for 'burial.' The Sleepless don't go mad immediately, the effects would begin to accumulate.

Shit, that would be frightening. Counting the months since you last closed your eyes, realizing you've grown short-tempered and impulsive, while at the same time feeling your perception painfully improved. And your brothers might realize it too, and it's hard to meet their gaze until one day a soft-spoken chaplain comes to see you...

Trying to come up with some things that would make the Sleepy Marines actually playable.

Dream Warriors Librarian
Librarians are often tasked with leading squads in the field, using their powers to move a unit into position to better assault someone on the dream plane. Designated squad members will remain awake guarding their battle brothers while the Librarian leads the remainder to attack the enemy in dream scape.
Waking powers
Illusion: The Librarian masks the presence of himself and up to 6 battle brothers, rendering them either invisible or causing them to appear as non-threatening to nearby enemies.
The Gate of Infinity: Creates a safe passage in the immaterium to jump to another location.
Tread Lightly in His Name: Reduces effective weight allowing the Librarian and squad to pass hazardous terrain or structures unable to hold the weight of a Marine. (Similar in effect to 'Wings of Sanguinius' Codex Blood Angels (5th Edition))
(Wooden stairs no longer = squad broken)

Dream powers
effectively unlimited? No idea, there would be too many to list.

>>13829854
And on that day, the Chaplain standing before him, the marine would bow deeply as he reached a hand to his shoulder, and mournfully shattered his dreamcatcher...never to protect his slumber again.

>>13829680
IIRC the blindfold was the last part of becoming a marine proper. The recruits would run from the upper hive of the capital to the lower caves, and even the gang wars would stop to let them pass.

As for the creature, I thought it was a blind something, don't think we ever were specific on what it was species or family it was in. I think it would be kinda better being a mystery though.

>>13830187
Let them pass? Now where's the fun in that?
Half the trouble would be getting through the gang wars without being killed.

Do the sleepless get a special armor skin? Or do they keep the one they had?

And at what point does a marine go from "not having slept a long time" to "Sleepless"?

>>13830235
When they feel the need to sleep but aren't able to.

>>13830266
It's quite a bit more complicated than that.
All Nightmares go through periods of restlessness fairly regularly. I'd imagine it's a series of physical and psychological factors judged by the company's chaplins and apothecaries to determine which marines have been awake too long and lost too much of themselves.

>>13830235
They keep the power armor they lived and battled in--they deserve that much. After, it's removed, repaired, and ritually cleansed for the next scout who's become a full marine.
As for Sleepless, there's no official time. The apothecaries can confirm what they suspect by examining the catalpsean node. The general warning flag would be a long time without sleep despite mounting fatigue. Some marines might step forward and confess, while others might try to hold on and hope the sleep comes soon. In those cases, the chapter keeps their eyes open for individuals who are growing more agitated and snappish than normal. Might ask them when they last slept.

I just want to submit this scheme for the Emperor's Nightmares.

>>13830400

That looks too much like the Emperor's Children.

>mfw this chapter

This is one of the greatest things I've ever come across on /tg/. I'm gonna try to do some writefaggotry about this. Good job people. Keep it up.

Also, what's the naming scheme for the chapter?

>>13830400
I think the overall consensus was that that type of scheme was too close to Emperor's Children.

>>13830400
Oh, God-Emperor, not this again.

It's like I'm in a recursive Dream and can't wake up!

>>13820331
Best I could do bros.

On the subject of the blindfolds, I do think there should be some degree of ritual to it but they also would have to be as functional as possible. I see marines that are awake but not on active duty putting special earplugs in their ears, sequestering themselves in a pool of water in a pitch black room and donning a functional headband of soft, elastic cloth about three inches wide that completely blots out all light. Heraldry from Icthus nobility houses, mythology and depictions of the stars and space could be popular embroidery motifs.

>>13830622
Very nice. Thanks for the contribution.

>>13822378
>...And also in a disturbing way when you have a hulking eight foot tall armoured giant that hasn't slept in over three years passing the time on long voyages by playing games stabbing a power knife between his fingers at blinding speeds...

> stabbing a power knife between his fingers at blinding speeds

>mfw

>>13829713
That all sounds good. Good thinking on thwarting infra-red sensors and whatnot. I imagine the Icelus pattern dread would have a wide variety of electronic countermeasures too. Radar jamming, etc. Maybe even an EMP?

S70 seems a bit too much honestly. I don't see this thing being equipped with a dreadnought close combat weapon most of the time. A mere 45-50 is plenty good enough. 60 if y'all really want.

In my mind's eye the way I visualize the dreadnought I was kind of picturing blood talon-like claws and a MIU shoulder mounted sniper rifle as standard hard points.

Assault weapons like melta guns could be switched for the sniper rifle's hard point but the chassis is significantly impeded by mounting any kinds of heavy weapon (and would lose a lot of its fancy bonuses).

Then various types of mechadendrites and sensor equipment all along its back like porcupine quills.

All of this concealed by a large camelioline tarp worn like a hooded poncho to protect from the weather.

The armour itself is active camo and has that Deathwatch tau field built in along with multiple redundant stummers.

I'd consider even going as low as AP 20. This thing would work more like a light monstrous creature than a dreadnought. Think... robotic lictor.

>>13830749
Emperor's Nightmares man. Emperor's Nightmares.

>>13830856
Sounds damn fine. Can we get a drawing of this beast? I want to see Gavroche astride a campfire as the cultists finally see him, too late.

>>13830856
>>13830884
Oh god yes please. I want to see this thing.

I NEED PICTURES!

PICTURES OF GAVROCHE!

(and also of other more assault oriented Icelus pattern dreads that aren't neccissarily equipped with a sniper rifle for their hard point)

>>13829854
Problem with this is that the Inquisition is in love with playing with fire. Chances are, they know exactly how dangerous a Nightmare is when he can't sleep.

So, they'll play with the times. So what if he hasn't slept in over three months? There's this quick battle here right in this system he can do before he leaves...

"The lunatic is a wakeful dreamer." ~Immanuel Kant

"Let the dreamer walk about and act like one that is awake." ~Carl Jung

Two quotes that may serve as some inspiration.

>>13831101
...So they push the envelope, which strains the relation between the Nightmare and the Deathwatch. It doesn't happen often, but once or twice is enough. The Nightmare see it as an exploitation of men who are already suffering.

>>13831101
>>13831118
And now, I just realized, I want to play a Deathwatch Nightmare marine in the process of going Sleepless. Maybe count it as accrued Insanity Points?

for the love of god please call the sleep periods that arrive when a marine's been awake for nearly too long the Luxor Dream.

You just realized that the Emperor's Nightmare are the greatest explorers of Space Hulk.

"Brother Aetos? Why have you... a Lictor?"

"I heard it scuttling around. My apologies Brother Thorson."

"I am a Space Wolf! Even with my nose, I did not smell them. How could you hear them?"

"They were in a place where air was locked. But they their clattering claws cannot fool my ears."

>>13831101
>>13831118
Yeah. I mean, lets be honest, the Inquisition would LOVE to get their hands on a Waking Dead librarian in like an Icelus pattern assault dreadnought. They'd be convinced they could contain it. In their hubris they would mistake it for other similar madnesses like the black rage and they would attempt to contain it as you would contain a dumb beast.

But this is a dumb beast that psychically reactivated all the systems you thought you turned off, mapped the entire storage compound with its autosenses as it was being transported in, subtly dispatched a servoskull to upload a virus into the base grid, bides its time for seventeen hours and nine minutes and then telekinetically reassembles itself before vanishing into the background. The Inquisition does not even notice the absence until four hours later when the machine spirits of the remote compound's communications grid. Icelus Opera starts playing over the vox network and in the seventeen seconds of complete disorder the librarian quietly leaps two fences and a brick wall, slits the throat of four guards and hijacks a valkyrie transport, clinging to the bottom as it pilots the craft forty eight miles south-southwest using its mechadendrites before landing in a small clearing it spotted the day before when the shuttle was ariving planetside.

The librarian then cannibalizes the valkyrie for parts, digs in and goes to war against the vile dark eldar pirates whose clutches he has finally escaped. He will activate the warp beacon. His chapter shall find this world in time.

>slowpoke.gif

Mikhail was a Vostroyan, and it showed. He was cool even in the heat of battle- so when he joined the Astartes aboard their section of the ship, no one was surprised. They didn't say anything, nor did he. He would clamber atop a massive pauldron and sit and look out the window with them. The hours passed. The Marines were silent for the entirety of the voyage thus far, but the Guardsmen were happy to be alive under any circumstance. Another chance to live, to go home, to further the cause of the Imperium that much more. When Brother Tychus picked up Mikhail, all the others held their breath.

"Why are you here?"
"You are peaceful, comrade. I wish to be peaceful as well."
"We are not at peace, young one."
"Then why are you quiet?"
"We count the stars."
"Then I shall count them with you."

There was a long silence, and then Tychus placed the young man back upon his shoulder. The hours sunk slowly into the night, and the Vostroyan was soon curled up asleep. The Marine left him there and felt some pang of gladness that the boy could sleep. Tonight, the Sleepless would descend and defend those could do the one thing that he could not. There was honor in that.

And honor is all that dead men have.

>>13831333
...

Confirmed for the results of the first Deathwatch Dreadnought going Sleepless.

Keep up the great work Res/tg/uardians!

>>13830856
any brave drawfriends want to take the first stab at depicting Icelus Pattern Dreadnought Armour?

>>13831377
...Okay, I'll admit, I d'aww'd at this. It was strangely cute yet appropriate for something our astarties would do.

I had a little go.

>>13830856
Commencing mini dump of inspirational pictures for Icelus Pattern Dreadnought armour:

They're based off the heresy marks, but they have to be a bit stealthier, faster and more agile. Plus all the mechadendrites and the porcupine quill sensors for black ops work. It's pretty easy to imagine these with a shoulder mounted sniper rifle and camo cloak though.

>>13832104

>>13832144

>>13832144
>>13832104
>>13832188

It is just be or do these things look absolutely puny in comparison to the standard models?

Not at all that it's a bad thing, as it serves a unique roll, but damn.

>>13832036
Badass.

>>13832237
Oh yeah they're like two thirds the size of a normal dreadnought in mass.

But hey, that's why they're the perfect STC to base the Icelus Pattern off of. Strip it down even more, make it lighter, make it faster, make it quieter and give it a back full of sensor spines, optical mechadendrites and fine motor control mechadendrites and an active camo scheme and you have yourself a proper black ops stealthnought.

>>13832036
I like how the shoulders kinda looks rocky, like the edge of a small hill.

>>13832036
Well it's modern heavyset dreadnought armour. Still awesome though.

This makes me think instead of the battle company support squads of devastator dreadnoughts: Riflemen and lascannon dreads camping out patiently on an enemy supply line obscured by camo netting not moving for days at a time, then blasting a convoy to smitherines as it tries to make what it though was a safe run.

So... stats wise the basic outline of the chassis would be:

22 AP all round 55 Strength 40 Agility

Three Hard points: 2 Lightning claws, MIU-linked shoulder mounted Astartes Sniper Rifle as standard, utility and optical mechadendrites, Chameleoline Coating (Counts as Chameleoline Cloak, +20 to Concealment tests and shadowing. The wearer counts as one range bracket further if standing still), multiple redundant Stummers (+30 to Silent Move), Preysense Mask, Cooling Capillaries (covering joints and armor to keep them from coming up on IR sensors). Radar jamming equipment, assorted sensor spines, servo skull incorperating stummer and autosense link.

Sprint, Sonar Sense

How does that look so far?

>>13832758
Not bad. How does Deathwatch dread gear stack up to normal marines? I mean, I think of a dreadnought and I think of the big guns that can take out just about anything. The rifle's good for precision, but maybe it should have some deployable meltas or alternate weapon options on the hardpoint, particularly if it's a Shock and Awe type of fighter.

Do Sleepless suicide squads get a new paint job? Like how Death Company has all black with a red X? anyone have any proposals for that?

And what is the chapter's overall personality? So far it seems they're almost at Salamander-levels of brodom.

>truth. abyric

Yep Captcha, they do seem like they'd tell the truth. Not all secretive like the damn Dark Angels.

>>13832849
Oh yeah I should clarify. I intended for the hard points to be replaceable. That's just the standard equipment. I see the sniper rifle being replaceable with a meltagun, plasma gun, flamer, storm bolter or Astartes Shotgun. Mounting heavier weapons is an option but you lose sprint and take additional penalties.

The Arm Hard Points could be replaced with any weapon available to terminators: Lightning claws, power fist, chainfist, storm shield, thunder hammer, storm bolter, combi-weapon

All this would depend on requesition and status and so on as usual.

>>13832863

Owing to their hyper-attention to detail, I imagine each one personalizing his armor with intricate symbols and designs. Some might be devotional, some might be recreations of things he had seen (a particularly compelling star field, for instance) and some might simply be incredibly intricate geometric patterns.

>patient's acescsio
Yes captcha, Nightmares only decorate their armor after the become Sleepless

>>13833016
I like this.

>>13832863
>>13833016
I like the idea of them armor detailing. Obsessively so. The only problem that has is that their armor would bear those details when it was passed on after that Sleepless died.

As for personality, they're very bro, but they're also incredibly abrasive and difficult to get along with. Their acuity makes them point out little flaws in everything, they're often agitated and slightly temperamental, and their claim of fighting with the Emperor rankles other chapters.

>>13833041

Perhaps they don't etch it directly into the armor but apply it via paint or modifications that is removed once the sleepless is finally at rest? and by rest I mean dead.

Or maybe it would be the new battle brothers first task to remove all the details from the armor to honor the sleepless he is replacing? to learn what the nightmares are truly about almost.

>>13833041


Maybe after the Sleepless dies and they hand down the armor, they repaint with standard color. Like yeah, Armor is passed down with all the little embellishments and personal affects, but maybe your Sleepless armor paint job is yours alone and dies with you?

Marines seem to have really efficient and fast drying armor painters, don't they

>>13833041
They are the Adrian Monk's of the Astartes. They are generally pretty cool bros, but they have to have things just right, and they will tell you when you make a mistake. And they see all mistakes. Which kinda makes them seem like jerks.

Essentially, OCD Marines

>>13833084
I like that. The first thing the new marine does on getting his armor is cleanse it and etch out the former carvings, reflecting on each. Most choose to memorize them. This also has the side benefit of being a crash-course in maintaining their armor.

>>13833041
>>13833016

Not armour. Wouldn't really work for Battlegroup Secundus. We have stuff to work that obsessiveness into already.

Dreamcatchers.

>>13833168
You ever see a spider tripping out on something? Its webs get fucked up.
Maybe the dreamcatchers end up like that for Sleepless. Some are insane fractal patterns, some are completely torn apart and made anew. Some are completely covered by the strands. Chaplains keep Sleepless catchers aside, but revere them.

>>13833168
Thought it was decided that Dreamcatchers of the Sleepless were taken away.

And besides, when all you have is endless time and a whole lot of imagination, added to the general ohshitwhatthefuckisthis paranoia and hallucinations you get when you're severely sleep deprived, I'd take any distraction I can take.

>>13833233
>>13833235
Ach, you're right. No dreamcatchers. I'm all for the armor.

>>13833168

The Sleepless don't usually deploy with Secundus do they? I thought they were more of a Primaris Shock-and-Awe type thing. As for the Dreamcatchers, they really wouldn't make much sense once a Marine is sleepless, so he finds a new outlet for his obsessiveness in his armor and equipment.

>>13833235

God, I remember this one time I was strung out on papers and was walking the underground passages of my uni and I could swear I heard someone behind me. I turned to look and there was no one there. I waited to see if someone was about to come through the door, in case I heard them on the other side and sure enough I heard the door open.

My eyes told me the door hadn't moved.

That was when I started walking faster.

I see you guys have a base line picked out for secundus, so I'm starting to move ahead with tightening up the pic. I might be a while with the final pic though since I'm putting together a new computer. Hopefully that goes smoothly...

Anyway, some anon a while back seemed to stress the importance of the imagery of keys in the chapter, but I don't know how far that got. It wasn't explained to me what its significance was, but I got to thinking what if the key imagery was used as another kind of ward or purity seal? The chapter would use different types of key symbols and the rituals associated with them to ward against different things?

In the case of the pic, I put a key on the forehead of the marine as a ward or protection over the third eye against certain elements.

>>13833352

Holy fuck when did we get a chapter symbol?

That looks badass!

>>13833367

Look at the 1d4chan wiki, bro

http://www.1d4chan.org/wiki/Emperor%27s_Nightmare#Organization

>>13833352
Ooh, nice. And we're keeping the Corvus Armor I see. Awesome.

Sleepless attack on the foul Tau

(My apologies if its not exactly what you envisage, as I said before, I had a little go)

>>13833352

Looks awesome to me. Good work. I like how the Corvus helmet seems kinda drowsy.

I'm glad the Chapter logo shows up well on the fenris blue, I was worried about that.

>>13833388

Honestly, I don't remember where I got the blue from, there were so many variations on the Secundus color scheme...

>>13832863
I was thinking that a bright white armor would work for the Sleepless. I mean, black = night = sleep, so white = day = no sleep... or something like that. Something simple, yet distinct.

Maybe have a single, ever watchful eye as their symbol.

>>13833429

It looks like the scheme proposal I finalized. I was the one who started the mock ups in the first couple threads.

Not really trying to take credit though, I pretty much just threw things out, listened to commentary, made changes, and repeated.

>>13833381
THAT

Is incredibly fucking badass.

The way I see it the Icelus Pattern suits are divided into tactical and assault. Kinda like terminators (they're a halfway point between terminators and dreadnoughts after all) With the tacticals often having the sniper rifles or other longer ranged weaponry and the assault taking meltaguns and flamers or ruthless close combat weaponry.

That right there is an Assault Icelus. Holy shit is that ever an Assault Icelus

>>13833381
That is legitimately fucking terrifying.

I'm throwing some of the Concept art up onto the wiki page if you guys don't mind, seems like it could use it.

>>13833554
Yeah go for it. While you're at it, maybe bring the picture of the official metallic DoW liveries up to the top of the article?

>>13833602

Sure.

Since we've gone at least a couple dozen posts without a self-congratulatory post: god DAMN can /tg/ ever get shit done. This has been a ridiculously productive thread. Good on all a' y'all.

Is it just me or are the Sleepless even more fascinating than the Dreamers?

>>13833715

They certainly seem to be.
Like a few posters a while back stated, reality becomes near warped to you after extended periods without rest, sometimes fascinating, other times utterly terrifying.

>>13833715

I don't know, but they're a damn spot more interesting the the Death Company.

>>13833715
They really are. Human intelligence without human reason. Scary stuff. Add in the body horror of unrelenting fatigue nothing can help, and the idea of that thing being a lightning-quick ancient who could smash through a building, and you have one of the freakiest things in 40k.

>>13833738
You can say that again.

The Sleepless of the Emperor's Nightmares were here.
Death Company are pussies.

>>13833715
It's because we can connect to them. Weird Psychic powers in dreams where you kill Daemons? That's never happened to me, but sleep deprivation? Insomnia?

Any college or University student goes through those. I've taken more than a few all-nighters desperately cramming for exams, finishing projects, etc... and I'm sure a few of you have too. We know how it feels, and to imagine it infinitely worse... well that's a hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

>>13833802
>Human intelligence without human reason.

Yes! Yes that's it exactly! Very succintly put. That is the essence of what is so unnerving about them.

The Waking Dead especially. Like... the things they are capable of accomplishing both on and off the battlefield are astonishing, especially the Venerable Dreamwalkers in Iron who succumb to Sleeplessness... but there's no rhyme or reason to any of it. You just have to turn them loose under the right circumstances and pray that today they don't think you're also the enemy.

It is interesting to note, given how often the Sleepless have attacked brother marines in their delusions, that the Sleepless almost never attack each other. Most seem to have formed a quiet, unspoken bond, gazing out at the stars, together in their isolation. Perhaps they communicate more with a single moment of body language than any mind still possessing reason could possibly understand or hope to process.

Last drawing of the night from me.

Icelus Pattern dreads added to the wiki

>>13834490
Awesome.
How does the Mechanicus view the pattern? Do they tithe a handful of them yearly, or is it a point of contention that they use an older mark?

>>13833352
Since we brought up colours once again, a quick question : we decided that the "original/official" pattern of the Primus is metallic purple and yellow. But what about Secundus ? Is their default armour a metallic purple too, or just plain purple ?
(I am aware that both these armours can be heavily customised and all that, but that's not the point.)

I saw this quote on Wikipedia for Night Owls and thought it carried some wait for the EN.

'As one of the night people, I realized I was among the select....We have the world to ourselves. Blessed are the owls, for they shall inherit the mystery and magic of the night'

>>13834565

See:
>>13833352
>>13833490

This has generally been accepted as the colour scheme for Secundus since the very first thread. For people who wanted some variations, it was added that Secundus was known to occasionally have different patterns for a mission for some reason.

>>13834655

Sorry, I misread, but I believe it is NOT a metallic purple on Secundus. The metallics only came up when the scheme was pushed through DoW2, and I'm not even sure if it's a very practical scheme for tabletop.

>>13834563
Well since, if you want to get really technical, the Icelus is really just the systematic master-crafting of an MK1 or MK2 dreadnought. So can't be considered tech-heresy even by the most absolutely stringent of tests. (although all the additional active camo and sensor spines and stuff they add in later could be maybe)

The Nightmares probably have a corps of a couple dozen of these machines at any one time. They're sorta an intermediate between the chapter's dreadnoughts and the chapter's few terminators. I doubt the techmarines have spare time to build Icelus dreads for other chapters but I'm sure they would share the design schematics.

I just knocked these up.

Also, wadda bout terminators? I haven't seen a single mention of them anywhere.

>>13834938
They might be less First Company--or more accurately, deployed alongside each company to take the place of Devastators. Most would probably be in the Shock and Awe camp. Not to say there are no stealth terminators--two words you do not want to hear if they're sortied against you.
I would also say that Sleepless marines are never Terminators--the armor is too valuable and powerful, and they're much too dangerous. They likely screen candidates, and wait for longtime veterans rather than anyone with the Crux Terminatus.
In addition, if a Terminator starts showing signs of going Sleepless, he's out.

I'm going to add the Sleepless armor fluff to the wiki if no one has any objections.

>>13834980
None here. That said, we're creeping up on like 300 posts, and I think we hit autosage. New thread?

>>13834938

I did a quick rough draft of a Termie, but thats all. Don't really like this anymore. The Liche purple only works for small trim, not huge pauldrons. I'd probably swap them to the Fenris Blue.

Stealth Terminators... nearly as scary as Stealth Dreads...

>>13834996

Sounds good

New thread:

>>13835080

>>13835081

new thread

>>13835097
>>13835098

We made 3 different threads? Sheesh, I already deleted mine.

Go go enthusiasm. Hah.