There are mixed tech levels. Some of the urbies managed to build working battery powered cars, sometimes using toy cars as base, and sometimes starting from scratch. Traveling out in the open is risky, raptor birds often prey on the tiny humans, as also cats and some dogs. There are few animals that still have reason to fear us and in many ways we became a easy pray. Working on groups, acting smart and keeping our head low is or only shot at surviving. Raw strenght can save you in a struggle agaisnt a nasty mouse, but won't do much agaisnt a sneaky, huge hungry cat. Or a rampaging pitbull. There is trade between comunities that are not far apart and even wraiths of political organizations, like king's or senate on the non-nomad societies.

I need more ideias to make this work. System suggestions and setting ideas. What you think /tg/?

>>16273905
>>16273997
guns are now make shift artillery,

Spears are loved.

Humans would have a great power to weight ratio but would have to eat a lot to compensate to also having greater surface area and no hair. so we'd have to eat more but we could actually handle ourselves fairly well as we'd be rather tough for our size.

large creatures would have to be fended off as a group. think medival pike and shot style armies fending off cats.

with a hand gun on some wheels or on a car acting as heavy artillery.

giant robots at this size actually become feasible (well small robots but they'd be giant to the people.)

scavenging for tech, gun powder, food and metals would probably be key, and imported luxuries would falter,

gas would actually be plentiful and you'd need less to get further, remote control planes could be jury rigged so that a pilot could fly it. eventually being able to reconnect city centers.

i can imagine houses now acting as fortresses, most are abandondened but people have flocked to certain ones to live in.

I'm on board with this idea simply because I've always loved the idea of making little gadgets and weapons from household materials. Kind of like the movie "Nine" (with the little burlap guys) where they've got swords made from scissors and little lightbulb staffs.

Pikmin comes to mind.

Good, good..
Now make this into a game!

>>16274154
Agree with you. interesting you mention firearms as artillery. One of my ideias was a revolver being operated by a trained crew. Two guys to carry and cock the bullets on the drum, a spotter that seeks targets and aims, and a shooter, who pulls the rope attach to the trigger. The loading team, after realoading, pulls the gun pin down for easir trigger fire.
>>16274152
Yes, this is one of the reason. Urbies would have from the gun artillery mentioned above to catapults made using spoons and rat-traps.

Sounds like The Borrowers OP, sans the Biggies of course.
Read it/watch it.

Neat thought.

If this were a published game, the cover should have a ruler printed along the edge, for size reference.

>Could my character use something like a steak knife as a weapon?
>Let's see, you're about 4 inches tall.. and this knife is way too big for you to properly get your arms around.

>mfw

Also, this is my idea for adventuring on this setting:
Players would be humans from different backgrounds, and the system would have to give a nice role to skills, since they are JUST as important as fighting in this world. Le' say the players are Urbies from a Junkyard converted into a huge metropolis inside a city. And they have to go to the cities outskirts to trade some plastic, for example, for seeds and food with the Wilders. They mostly travel by night to avoid raptor birds, and have to overcome HUGE obstacles such as the sidewalk step, a crack on the street or a building that crumbled on the path and raider mounting rats.

Whenever I hear stories like this, I keep imagining a large group of these tiny people banding together and transforming a car into a massive "Landship."

>>16274270
with side holes for the revolver artillery so it can fight other landship?

We can try to make this into a system, or a setting to a system. If the system is lethal, crude, skill-focused and cover fighting things you can literally climb on and build a house.

- those red-rider wagons from our childhood.
They are now roving battlefortresses, pulled by teams of small animals. With a mini-city built inside of doll houses.
- childrens toys converted into useful vehicles. Engineers dropping tiny combustion engines from RC vehicles into roughly machined GI-Joe vehicles for transport.
- Viable battle mechs carrying .22 repeating firearms
- RC planes refitted to carry people
- keep in mind that one can of tuna fish could feed a colony for a week.
- another cool thing is that all our knowledge would be preserved on computers. We'd still be able to use a computer or any digital device, they would just be these massive monoliths of knowledge that colonies of humans would have to fight to protect, or capture.

If this existed I would play a character who had a bird mount. Probably a bluejay. That said, the setting seems a little bland. Yeah, you're tiny, but I can't think of what I would do if I where gming this. Maybe evolve on why everyone got tiny in the first place, and how. Maybe introduce other mixups to throw in. The real issue is that there's no inherent drama. I'm now wondering what industries would become impossible when you're that small. I'm pretty sure you could still build a computer at some tiny computer building factory

>>16274303
Let's do this! If its class-based, I can suggest a few:
Fisher (wich is like a whaler, killing fishes twice his size with spears. Also sailing knowledge)
Protector (Wilders version of a soldier. Melee strenght)
Hunter (A mix between ranger and barbarian)
Scavenger ( a Urbie favored class that has some engineering)
Scout (a ranger-rogue, urban or wild)

This would be crazy! Imagine how terrifying bugs and critters would be?

To scale up to our comparison is (say im 6ft) a x18 increase!

There'd be slugs as big as your leg, and ants as big as your face!

I've just measured my ovan and grill pan, and thought it'd make an excellent base for a foundry for 4" high people!

holy fucking shit.

Imagine you're leading your small group of say . . . 50 survivors. You've got some doctors, maybe an engineer or two, but mostly blue collar types.
Roaming through a house, you have to fight off the house cat who is now starving since nobody feeds it. You have to compete with cockroaches that are now the size of Great Danes for food.
But you march on in search of the holy grail. You've come to this house, with it's children's toys in the front yard, looking for one thing:
That kids stash of motherfucking LEGO's.

Lego has everything. Tiny electric motors. Pneumatic systems. Raw materials that don't have to be forged or shaped, just stamped into position. You could build a car, with it's own motor, and drive your whole colony around looking for batteries (which are now as massively important as oil in mad max). You could build ANYTHING without needing to re-invent the machinery wheel.
It's the motherload of treasures, for sure. But you still have to get across the great living-room wastes, the backed up bathroom bogs, the naked hallway of the terror cat, and finally you'll have to figure out some way to unlock the door to the child's bedroom. And god help you if the legos are in a sealed box with a heavy lid.
But hey, maybe the kitchen has some canned goods that will feed your colony for a whole year! And maybe that cat didn't stick around when the food ran out, right?

>>16274270
"The USS Toyota"
It has mounted shotguns sticking out holes the sides a la pirate ship. The trunk is open and serves as a garden.

Steering would be difficult without either an electric motor or other complex means. 5 mph is probably the fastest it would go.

I'm thinking this thing would be stationary most of the time, only moving to "migrate" down out of the mountains or something.

Also, think about the massive weight of things when you're 4 inches tall; it would need a small crane to tip a moderate-sized bucket. And the effect of wind and rain; light hail could easily kill a man out in the open, and heavy rain would be a good beatdown.

I ran a homebrew fantasy rodent campaign back in highschool very similar to this, with the cause of the change being some archmage council casting an epic variant on Baleful Polymorph. I don't remember exact details, but the added classes were something like this;
Scavenger; Builds equipment out of metal bits, anything they can find.
(forgot the name); Druid-like class. Gains abilities through a symbiotic relationship with some form of pest in their stomach (a tapeworm was the default). They regained spells by eating food.

I don't remember much about the campaign. The enemy had multiple necromancers at it's disposal, who animated human skeletons and controlled them ike mechs from within the skull.

>>16274410
The setting is open, but surviving and doing quests in this type of world would be much harder. And there is plenty of role for adventure, being rafting down a river as an explorer, scouting ruined buildings for artifacts from before, precious things like need, nails, knifes, charcoal and pretty much everything else. You can always include a rival Colony on the sam territory fighting over resources. The trheat of starving, the giant animals, the misterious dangerous. I don't see lack of potential here. I think it sound so cool that you can make things in such a huge scale. And also you can focus this game n not only improving your character, but also improving your colony.

OP, this idea makes me happy.

Legos could be used to make small dwellings. Nothing sturdy or substantial, but something akin to real life wood huts.

>>16273905
Knowledge wouldn't be so much "lost" as "we know exactly where it is, it's just *getting to it*." Recoveriy would be a massive undertaking to retrieve books and technical manuals the size of houses.

>>16274532

For your size, Legos would be pretty damn sturdy I'd say. They'd be closer to cinder blocks than wood as far as building materials were concerned, and a damn sight lighter.

I think a new system would be amazing.

This just calls for unique rules and situations that aren't usually presented in other systems.

Let's not leave out papercrafts. A paper airplane is now a viable parachute/hangglider, a paper tent is the easiest to set up or transport since it only needs to be folded.

There's also the issue of texture. Something smooth to big people would be like sandpaper to the tiny. Walking across street pavement would be akin to a nightmare wasteland. Hot, rocks everywhere, pits and covered in toxins.

There are other issues such as some bacteria no longer being small enough to effect people, or being large enough to be life threatening when it was once minor.

I thought I had a picture of a mouse riding a beetle somewhere.. but have a packrat instead.

>>16273905
Something to consider: Flight would be ridiculously simple and approachable. Leaves could be turned into serviceable wings. Humans in general would be much more resilient to falling damage as our terminal velocity would be such that a strong wind would blow us away.

>>16274588
True.

Raider types would love to have some of those legos that pry other legos apart.

Here's a thought:
A group of raiders on a roof or somewhere else high up with a magnifying glass on a sunny day. Imagine the terror they could cause.

This needs to be the latest example of /tg/ getting shit done.

LET'S MAKE A SYSTEM BOYS!

>>16274628
The focal point on a magnifying glass is usually within a foot or two, so that wouldn't really be viable.

I wonder how large countries could get in this universe, I could see an empire that makes use of highways through converted battle cars, taking taxes and tribute from outlying towns back to the main city.

Tinyhammer! Suddenly collecting those Empire Halberdiers pays off when you can jam that sharpened plastic into something for real.

Just imagine how horrifying it would be to enter an old, abandoned shed. Spiders the size of dogs would be hanging from the roof and hiding under holes that are now big enough to see into. Beetles would be like tortoises, only frighteningly fast. Earwigs would be as big as cats, and able to rip an arm or head off.

And, of course, spiderweb would be like iron chains covered in epoxy.

>>16274655
I suppose, but it would still be a dangerous thing to have. What used to be a small fire in a patch of grass could now be a devastating wild fire.

>>16274643
Ok, system time. Let's decide how it will work. Universal points like gurps? Class stats like most rpgs?

I'm favorable to classes on this, but maybe them can be less restrictive, working like a template?

>mfw I realize this is basically furn gully with no faerie wings

Imagine what an already large creature would be like in this system, a bear for example.

It might be pretty harmless to something as small as humans, but it would be awe inspiring.

Actually, a bear would basically be the scale of Godzilla in this setting, AWESOME!

>>16274679
I would just make it a gurps setting imo. You need gurps so you can meticulously calculate how a tiny propeller would work.

9v Electric Motor in a RC car?

war-buggy ahoy...
A model shop would be an armoury.

>>16274695
If a bear is godzilla what is an elephant?

Well, this would suck.
cats, foxes, birds, small dogs, spiders, hornets, large rats, ants, scorpions, everything is now gunning for you.

I mean really, what the fuck are you going to do about a goddamned hawk? Only go out at night? Motherfucking Owls!

>>16274717
The great moving continents

>>16274717
Super Sayan Godzilla, of course.

>>16274690
OH MY GOD ITS A YORKSHIRE! SOUND THE ALARM! MAN THE BALLISTA!

>>16274717
Something told to bad children to scare them.

>>16274731
Human could retain some of their previous strength, so they are more like mini-Conans than just mini nerd-people.

But imagine huge Human city vs ant colony battles. What if by the same strange thing, Ants developed sentience?

>>16274526
>Go to a fortress city in a police station, they warn about a dragon near the under sea
>its a crocodile that has escaped from the zoo living near the sewers
>Epic quest time

>>16274695
Dear god, that would be horrifying.
Also, some bears might be a danger still.
Not directly, but they would still probably step on a random person or five every once in a while.

>>16274679
Something like Basic Roleplaying would be good for skills: a list of skills rated 01-100% base don the characters knowledge of that skill.

Classes should be different than the usual Fighter, Thief, Healer, etc. cliches.

Maybe something like
-Tinkerer (a 4 in. tall Macguyver basically)
-Hunter (excels in hunting and fighting insects, rodents, etc.)
-Delver (basic explorer class that excels in navigating the gigantic landscape)

Any other ideas?

>>16274679
I've always been keen on World of Darkness's approach to character creation. ## amount of points for attributes, ## points for skills, ## points for special abilities/talents, and everything else is derived from those stats.

>>16274766
>a 4 in. tall Macguyver

That is amazing.

I'm imagining a full sized pickup truck traveling down a highway at 5, maybe 10 miles an hour.

It has shotguns mounted to serve as artillery and places to lower smaller toy cars to the ground.

It's purpose is to collect tribute from the outer territories of an empire, it has a crane on the back to load useful devices into the trunk, which is probably covered by a tarp.

The truck is designed to be as intimidating as possible in order to prevent rebellions.

I wonder if gas might be a problem though, it does go bad after a few years and I don't imagine there would be more oil being pumped, but maybe that's the entire reason the empire is so powerful, they have a functioning oil pump.

>>16274532
>lego
>not sturdy

fuck it's like a wonder material, modular, easily repairable, almost indestuctable, waterproof, relativly insular, light, and as someone said, if you have the right blocks you can make anything

also remember tat lego makes boats that float, they just need some balast, imagine goign on an adventure down the sewer on the USS lego made from loads of leggo boats built together, fending of 'giant' rats with your .22 artillery cannon

>>16274826
I would not go in any boats in this setting, the smaller a boat, the easier it is to capsize

Maybe they could make a motorboat the equivalent of a oil tanker, but any smaller craft would be taken out by the first big wave.

A cleared out house could easily serve as a mid-size city.

Even a calm day on the sea would be rough for small people.

>>16274772
this
classes are terrible. What the fuck class does macguyver fall into?
The problem is that there's no magic. So I don't care how fucking mini-conan you are, a Fox is going to kill you no matter what. And if a Fox can't, then a large dog will. And if a large dog can't, fucking bears. See where this is going? There's no magical bull's strength to give a man the ability to kill a dragon.

So being stuck as a "fighter" class would suck balls. You'd be handy when other tiny human raiders showed up, but other than that you'd be pointless. 99% of the natural animals out there are so big it doesn't matter how handy with a pointy stick you are.
I like point buy for stats and skills, while being able to increase skills both during level up and with use like morrowind or something. Perhaps rather than getting generic experience points, you would get bonuses to specific skills by using them for ingenious ends. Or something. I am not a clever man.

Hum...Maybe we can do it like this:

4 major physical and 4 major mental atributes, rated from 1 - to 100, using % roll like >>16274766 suggested. Them, you have skills, that are bonuses to that atribute test, classes add bonus to the class skills, complications and advantages would be extra dice rolled along with the % roll, d10's more likely, determine the result. Something like this. What you say?

>>16274757
to 4 inch humans the largest ants would still be half our size, and the average ant would be like a small dog. at 4 inches tall a human would be more the size of a mouse than anything.

but yeah no traveling during the day unless you either can 1. escape, 2. defend yourself , 3 arn't a threat (nomad human farmers using cows as mobile transport, food and safety, with howdaw houses)

how about a town built in a car, with the controls wired up to a remote control, a flat bed truck can become an aircraft carrier for a squadron of model airplanes.

even small caliber weapons can fuck up a bird too if we can manufacture them. smaller hands means miniturization is easier.

Cities in shopping centers lit up with christmas lights, and town watch who are clad in plastic lunch tray armor and close hangar pikes and box cutter swords.

>After a lengthy expedition we have finally reached the top of the stairs. We were initially skeptical, but now all we can do is hope that the ramblings of this home's owner were true.

>To our great fortune, the door was still open, but the room was a mess.. But we could see it, there, stashed in the corner, a colossal container, overflowing with the glorious treasure we sought.. Lego bricks. Thousands of them.

>If we could retrieve this payload, we would have enough to house the whole clan and build reliable fortifications... But first, we had to cross a jungle of dirty clothes and old toys. I pray that no mice have set up nests here...

>>16274891
Maybe something like professions then, something to determine your starting skills but not limit you to set role like a fighter.

>>16274817
thought of something else, any automotive work would be insanely hard to pull off

There would probably only one place capable of fixing vehicles in existence, and changing a tire would be almost impossible.

If one of these mobile fortresses had a breakdown it would be stuck there until (probably the only) tow truck came...

I'm liking this more and more, cars as a navy almost.

I also really like the roll and keep system of L5R.
Putting points into skills could give bonus dice to your pool.

>>16274891
there'd still be tasers.

magic is magic for a reason.

we still have intellect scavenging and technical know how.

we could have sticks with two electrodes powered by a taser, what's a fox going to do against a fucking taser.

Man kind fought mammoths off with spears, and you think we NEED MAGIC?

HA. we just need better spears.

this is more about scavenging and crafting than magic and fighting.

A class system is not appopriate for this sort of thing. Backgrounds which give you certain aptitudes might be though. And to all of you whining about EVERYTHING CAN KILL YOU, where is your sense of adventure? Of course it is dangerous, that's the point.

>>16274909
>After setting up a camp for the night, we have made a horrifying discovery: the child that once lived in this room had a pair of pet hamsters that seem to have reproduced. We can count at least 10 of the beasts,and we had already lost two men climbing the stairs. But we must bring back the blocks, they are critical to our settlement.

OP, your original post is flawed. /tg/ has had this idea at least 3 times since I've been here, with 2 very notable threads archived quite highly. You ought to read through those before making some of these assumptions.

>Strenght and food needs are obviously properly reduced.
Food needs reduced? No. Total food consumed per person daily would be reduced, but being that small we'd burn our ready supply of calories incredibly faster, and would need to eat many more times a day--food would become /far/ more of a daily concern (not to mention that getting it would suddenly be something everyone would need to learn how to do immediately).

There is a GURPS alternate earth with exactly this description. It was in one of the older books I believe but it was only mentioned sort of in passing.

So is this a Pikmin game?

That'd be pretty fuckin sweet.

>>16274914
a mobile fortress full of hundreds of little people with pulleys and ropes could probably fix a tire, though the labor to try and remove the spare, the jack, set it all up and do it all, my god the fortress would have to make camp for a week at least.

but yeah, god forbid they have to replace a part.

then again we make oil tankers and air craft carriers and we do just fine with them. we'd make do with it.

>>16274951
Bad end in this situation is the team is never seen again, made food to the herd of hamsters..

Good end is the team tames the hamsters and rides them home, dragging socks full of bricks with them.

If you're 4 inches tall, you'd be able to fall from much much farther heights. And you could fly much easier.

>>16274995
>this setting

>>16274957
ItsmagicIdonthavetiexplainshit.jpg

Skills are broken up into three groups: Mental, Combat, Physical.

Mental would cover things such as mechanics (maintaining and creating)

Combat would include any and all combat skills (melee, artillery, ranged, hand to hand, etc)

Physical would be things like climb, dodge, swim, etc.

Holy shit, this entire thread is basically people seeing a situation and drawing false conclusions about what would result.

>>16274957
>its been done before.
doesn't mean it can't be done again.

i mean look at all the D&D threads. this is a good idea i've often thought of it so its nice to put some ideas out.

Ulric CatSlayer
A renowed fighter that saved the city of Green Meadow 1332 from the terrible menace of two stray cats. Along with his squire, Sir Ulric was able to stick a long spear made with a colorful pointy stick through one of the beast's ribcage onto into lungs and heart, disabling it so the brave knight could finish it with his greatsword made with a parts of a old knife. the other cat was slain when sir Ulric manage to climb on it and stab its neck several time from behind. The beast fell on its back crushing sir Ulric to death. But his legend lived on.

>>16275008
>I'mTooLazyToProperlyExplainShit.jpg

OP, are you me?

I have been thinking of making a system based on this idea for the past three weeks.

I'll just leave this here

I find the idea of moving car fortress a lot less interesting than scavengers, not to mention less plausible.

I'm now imagining people building suspended homes amongst the wire jumbles that form behind every well outfitted entertainment center.

>>16273997
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKuGh4zz8LU

What is the currency?

>>16275018
>holy shit this thread is just people thinking with their imaginations, but its not what i'm thinking so its obviously wrong.

>>16275025
Not only did he save our fair settlement, but the meat from the two beast fed us for nearly a month!

Every year we hold a celebration in his honor, feasting on a freshly killed cat that our bravest hunters set out to bring down.

>>16275019
Actually, it's been threads like this mostly, people thinking it's sunshine+rainbows+LEGOs. Drawing retarded conclusions. Occasionally someone comes along and puts actual legit contributions in, thinking things through and realizing what an apocalyptic nightmare this would be.

Nobody ever finds or makes a decent system to run it, but at least the first few threads had decent ideas. This one has been pretty derp.

>>16275026
To put it another way, I'm pretty sure in semblance of realism in the biology department goes away as soon as we have tiny humans who operate the same way as regular humans (same brain structure/capacity, etc). Why worry about it?

>>16275045
>mice aren't using an under carriage, the gun isn't steady.
> handle is down when it'd be easier to aim without a hand if the center of gravity is lower, meaning brace the barel down and leave the handle up.
>not trying to jury rig the gun so that its easier to fire than using the trigger
>thinking that men would be as stupid as those mice

>>16275046
4 inches isn't that small, and keep in mind, this is after five generations, civilizations would form.

There would still be scavengers, of course.

Roads don't go everywhere, and many would be unusable, there would be large numbers of people living as scavengers, but not everybody.

It would definitely be possible for those living in a city like, say, Washington DC to make a drivable car after five generations.

>>16273905
There was a Polish post-communist movie that has suitable scenary(it was about dwarfs living in communist system, bordering normal people)-they used tools from normal sized things

The title is Kingsajz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUpHrWzNidE

It would be just like the adventures of the Mini Ashes!

You get to big thumbs up from me OP.
Sounds cool as hell.

I can imagine a group of people somehow climbing into a child's tree house to create a tree top fortress.

Maybe the tree house is in a tree next to an apple tree, providing easy access to food. The settlers could also set traps for birds to supply meat. And wood would be easy to come by, obviously.

>>16274957
I think some allowances have to be made for the fact that being reduced by more than ten times in size is going to leave 4 inch tall humans as ill equipped for a competitive environment as dodos. Even if our 4 inch tall humans had laser eyes and iron skin it still wouldn't counter our ridiculously ineffective body form.

So it's best to just ignore it. Otherwise everybody would drop dead, as you would need to eat for over 100% of your lifespan to keep alive (for example).

4 inches tall... that's 10cm
At that height, average person would weigh about 13 grams, but be able to lift almost 200.
Given the way muscles work.... you'd be a lot smaller, but you'd also be a lot stronger for your size. If you were 18 times shorter, you'd be roughly 18 times stronger for your size.
It would be possible to jump about one meter up into the air, possibly even more.
Falling injuries would be almost unheard of, impact velocities would be 1/18th of what they are now. You could jump off the roof of a skyscraper (a real one, like the Empire State Building) and survive (probably get blown a good distance away by air currents though).

>>16275095
Yep, it's called "suspension of disbelief"

I'm thinking something more skill-based than combat-focused. Using skills to do stuff.

>>16275069
>waah, not grim dark enough waah

there's different variations to all settings.

>>16275069
Of course it's retardly dangerous. Just ignore the people going LEGOS AND CAR FORTRESS FLEETS and there's a lot of legit ideas here.

>>16275095
I think that tool usage would be pretty powerful still, but mice and rats would be a HUGE problem.

I don't think that humans would die out, but any towns would have to be ridiculously well defended, probably on the second or higher story of a building and completely fortified, even covered on top.

>>16275072
Again, that's being lazy with your setting crafting. That's like saying "hey magic exists... so there's no racism and greedy people don't exist." One thing does not lead to another, and players can forgive an initial handwaving if it meshes with the rest of the setting and follows logical conclusions. Do too many things that don't add up and you'll jar players' suspense of disbelief.

>play mouse guard
>remove mice
>add humans

Crunch is done.

So, no class. only running points. The skills could be divided in three groups as >>16275017
An you can have three 'points pools' to be divided between those skills, like WoD. Let's say, 35, 20 and 15. Also the same for atributes.

>>16275095
The only two big problems we'd have are our surface area to volume ratio, and that our limbs are probably too long.

However, have you considered that effectively, turning that small would proportionally make us bounce around like Spiderman?

>>16275144
forgot to tripfag there. Lets decide what atributes will be.2 or 3 atributes groups? and how many atributes per group?

>>16275159
yeah static electricity and our hands the way they are would actually make it easy for us to climb up surfaces.

have some dental floss so you can tie shit to you and you can climb anything.

and as i said before, spears and fire were an advantage to our ancestors against lions and mammoths, they will be an advantage to us now.

>>16275129
>>I think that tool usage would be pretty powerful still, but mice and rats would be a HUGE problem.

Oh it would, but not because of the fools proclaiming that plastic swords would be effective (derrrrrp).

You know how people would deal with rats, cats, and other large dangerous creatures? Poison. Most stores and a lot of homes have rat poison inside. You won't find a better weapon. While supplies lasted, fire (easy with a match) and gasoline would work wonders. Traps of a more mechanical nature would also get the job done.

Not someone using a bobby pin to try and poke a cat's eye out.

>>16275080
Even after 5 generations, the world is still going to be a pretty harsh place. It would take multiple generations for any community at all to be established. Forming any type of agriculture is going to be ludicrously difficult at this size. Consider the size of the plants, the intense labor involved in harvesting, etc. So if there are self sufficient communities they likely can't be older than a generation. And even those will face constant danger from insects and the like.

>>16275191
At that size, good luck making and using spears that would reliably puncture and injure an animal. A cat would rip you to shreds before you could pull it off.

Dumping a can of gasoline onto it from above and then igniting it? Would work. Lacing its food with poison? Would work. Tricking it into pawing a rat-trap (assuming you could get it set) would work. Spears? Fat chance.

>>16275211
Oh yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of guns eventually though, it wouldn't be that hard to make gunpowder, but the rest might be more difficult.

>>16275213
Yeah, now that you mention it, Agriculture would be hard.
Soybeans might be pretty easy to grow, maybe some small species of potatoes, but working the fields without dieing would be the hard part.

>>16275213
Consider that most people live in cities and know jack shit about farming. There's a ton of knowledge that just isn't in mainstream books but is passed down in families, little things that make the difference.

Also consider that after a few days, the power surge from power plants that are left unmanned is going to cause most of these cities to have HUGE fires. Numerous locations and no response, not to mention if it gets into the gas lines? Death, everywhere. It would be horrible, living in that first generation.

>See, I don't just complain.

>>16275241
Forging, machining and the like would probably be quite difficult, but it's nothing that several hundred pre-incident human sized puppets controlled by many humans can't solve.

>>16275270
or you could just make a smaller gun on a tiny forge if you are trying to kill mice and birds

>>16275241
Can you recite the ingredients for gunpowder offhand and the proper ratios? Do you know how to distill the requisite 3 materials?

Gunpowder would be more for explosions anyways. Modern guns would be hard to aim unless you made them a dedicated crew-served chassis (still hard to move then). And that's just pistols. Longarms? Forget about it, short of a siege weapon--transporting it would be too difficult.

Just a thought,

but what if whatever shrank all of humanity had no effect on a small percentage of the severely mentally retarded or those suffering schizophrenia.

You'd sort of have lone unpredictable giants I'd imagine

>>16275302
You're talking out of your ass.

>>16275211
>>16275233
Naturally you'd have to have some sort of lethal trap to take down a massive animal. Weapons (actual weapons,
not plastic swords) might still be useful against vermin though.

Also, while I would prefer to approach the setting from the PoV of a dangerous post-apocalyptic setting (with a tone somewhat reminiscent of Server Crash, really) there is nothing mandating that we adhere entirely to the realm of realism so long as we do not excessively abuse the suspension of disbelief.

>>16275306
No, but I don't have to, only one person who lives through the initial chaos does, and I think the odds are pretty good that somewhere, somebody will figure it out.

No, not every civilization would have it, but it could happen.

Anyone ever watch the show "Life After People"? because that's coming to mind.

You don't really realize just how little time it takes for wild roaming animals and plants and shit to reclaim the world.

>>16273905

Gunpowder weapons done in a proper size are impossible, the projectile would be too light to carry any energy. So forget about it. We either go full melee, or using crossbow/ballistae. And using the complex engines like cars and computer its a demi-impossible or just plain good old nope depeding on the case. Industry would cease, no factories would work, no gas production, oil extraction or mining would survive. Even the automated machines would fail without energy or without maintence still in the first or second generations. We need to focus on using more handy resources. How to craft tool and harvest food and wood? How to build houses? Lego won't be avaible in the quantity needed.

>>16275211
uhh when i was picturing hunting a cat it was more with thick iron spears, and it was a group either in formation so that all spears were together and in such away so that the formation was like porcupine, or that the people were all stabbing from all directions and swarming the beast.

also i saw hand guns and rifles as mobile artillery like cannons.

>>16275302
The problem would be getting temperatures high enough, which requires economies of scale in equipment.
>>16275306
1. Find a library
2. ???
3. Profit

>>16275213
>5 generations, the world is still going to be a pretty harsh place
Bollocks.
The first five DAYS would be harsh and see a lot of deaths, but after five MONTHS, most societies would adapt and after five YEARS we'd be done retooling our factories to produce proper sized goods. After five generations there will be manned expeditions to Mars and Jupiter's moons.

>>16275351
Yep. That's why I have such a pessimistic outlook on what would happen.

>>16275233
But you would still want one so that you aren't completely helpless. You would still die most likely, but you would have a better chance with a spear than with your bare hands.

fatanstic motherfuckin planet

>>16275375
Nope.

>>16275375

> After five generations there will be manned expeditions to Mars and Jupiter's moons.

lol no, smaller size = higher metabolic rate = considerably shorter lifespan

People will be less inclined than ever to travel this kind of distance

>>16275375
I agree. The tiny people aren't going to be trying to live in homes ten times bigger than they should be and whatnot, they'll be adapting technolgy to suit themselves, not the other way round. It won't be fun and games, but the moment the human population has the power, any animal which can potentially be a nuisance would have been hunted to extinction.

>>16275408
I would murder babies to play a Fantastic Planet campaign.

GO OMS!

>Monster Hunter Meet Pikmin: The RPG

Sold.

>>16275375
>Bollocks.
If we were back on our feet to 1800 levels of prosperity and technology in 100 generations, that would be a great success.

>>16275374
>1. Find a library
Sure, when food is a /massive/ priority and cities have burned down from the power surge. Shit, even finding the right book section without a computer would be far too much time looking. Then you've got to experiment to get it right. You don't see "how to make gunpowder from scratch, including distilling base materials" as a book in your normal library. You're lucky to get a mention of the ingredients in even a lot of related books.

>>16275432
>Hello there, don't mind me I'm just ruining a good setting idea.

>>16275384
Or you could run faster without one, and not waste time crafting it when you could be doing more important things.

think people don't realize how big 4 inchs is

>>16275362
At 4'' tall you could use a .22 pistol like a bazooka.
.22 is plenty powerful to kill any mouse, rat, cat, etc...

And there are even smaller caliber weapons that still pack a lot of punch and could be used by 4'' tall people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyTMj5759AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbjt3OZydg

>>16275463
>>Hello, he's bringing up a good point. Don't run it 60 generations after the fact, do it like 2-7.

So I'm guessing no one is interested in actually making the system work?

>>16275496
apparently not

>>16275496
I am. I am brainstorming right now, working in Open Office.

>>16275496
First thread is always pointless arguing. The betas need to work out amongst each other which of them is king beta. It will work itself out.

>>16275480
You could make a zip gun perhaps (still difficult to use at that size), but a full pistol is going to be too much to tote around.

Actually, while rainbows and happiness are most assuredly not what you'd find, our sheer ingenuity would allow for survival easily. Plus, you're not considering how likely animals would be to attack us. Is a mouse going to attack you? No. A hampster? Fuck no. A rat? Probably. A cat? Most likely.

So. Cat, wat do? Bows+arrows and needle swords. Seriously, a needle is strong, and if you fashioned a good grip by weaving thread through the eye, you've got yourself a suitable weapon. A .22 or a shotgun? lolno. Do you have any idea how impossible it would be to aim? Best bet is to use the raw shells and design your own gun. A zipgun made with a radio antenna, slip a .22 cartridge in, use some sory of backing to keepm it stationary, and you have kinda a turret. The kick will most likely kill the operator though. Stupid idea is stupid.

As for the legos, however... prime building material. Boats? No. Cars? Fuck yes. Remember Mindstorms? I can easily see 3-4 people building something with mindstorms, using the little touch sensors to steer it. It'd take work, and engineering (it can be hard to stick pieces together if you can exert so little force), but you could build something tracked or wheeled with no major issues. Just keep a bunch of spare AA batteries.

If I wasn't in college, I'd put together an example. But trust me, something like legos is your best bet for long-range transport. And by long-range, I don't mean 'city to city'.

Flying? Not gonna happen.

>>16275496
Why should the 6th iteration of this idea break with tradition?

>>16275375
Hahaha

This is bullshit of the highest caliber. In the first day you will see the complete loss of electrical infrastructure and the death of everyone on an airplane or train, and the death of significant number of people driving cars. Many people will simply be unable to access food. Consider population densities and potential mortality rates, then consider how difficult it will be for people to find each other. Then tell me society will be back on its feet in five fucking months.

I can try to host a /tg/ quest on this setting to see if it has potential to go far, adventure wise. But in my mind is a very cool variatio of Dorf Fortress already

How about using D20 modern and the post apocaliptical suplement?

>>16275529
>Is a mouse going to attack you? No. A hampster? Fuck no
I think you mean: Yes and yes.

>>16275496
Right now I have three skill groups

Mental Skills:
-Tinkering
-Speech
-<blank>
-<blank>

Movement Skills:
-Climb
-Swim
-Hide
-<blank>

Combat Skills:
-Dodge
-<blank>
-<blank>
-<blank>

Any ideas on the blanks?

>>16275529
>>Just keep a bunch of spare AA batteries.
So it'd last you a month, TOPS. You can't go buy more, or even restore the ones you have unless you have someone who knows the proper science.

>Needle vs cat claws
LOLNO

>>16275555
What exactly are we using skill categories for?

>>16275544
Actually OP I've got one almost ready to run for this very idea with a skill system (based it off of FATE, mostly), 6 different statted characters to choose from, statted creatures, and a lot of thought put into it.

I'll show you all the final skill system when I run it, but I don't want to spoil it yet :/

>>16275565
But a needle sword would be useful. You could at least TRY to attack a cat or defend yourself.

The way you are talking, you sound like no one should even attempt to defend themselves in this situation.

>>16275450
Sorry, I meant a real library, not your local pieces of crap filled with baby's first encyclopedia.

Also:
1)Find ammo stash
2)Take out propellant
3) Have enough gunpowder to last generations

>>16275555
What system are you using? Does a system even need to be made? Nothing is really changing other than sizes.

>>16275584
>>16275555
Hah. You're a fucking idiot.

>>16275585
This setting just feels like it needs its own system. By all means, use an existing one.

If OP is okay with it, I want to try and make a system.

>>16275585
Totally got it scaled for a 2" person, down to jump distances, weight reasonably carried, speed... yeah. But the skills are simplified to make it mostly about stuff you'd use instead of random stuff or 3.5's/GURPS too many skills.

>>16275602
Why?

Also, those aren't the same person.
I know, I am one of them.

>Urbies
>Better access to guns
You've never been in a rural area, have you?
Cool idea, though. Like Mouseguard/Redwall without anthros and with more technology.
Reading the rest of the thread now.

>>16275554
HAHAHAHAHA.

Because a passive herbivore half your size is going to always attack on sight.

See, I live on a farm, so I actually know what I'm talking about. Mice are timid, even around critters their own size. You don't know funny until a mouse and a vole come around a corner, bump into each other, and sprint the fuck out of there like they had run into a cat.

>>16275565
A month? Not even. Depends on how far you go. Impractical for long-range travel, best solution for early-gen transport.

Also, I'm guessing you haven't seen a cat try to kill something that shows agression. It's pretty funny. As a rule, if they don't run off, they just ignore it. They're hunters, and they expect prey to be scared, not to come at them and prick them in the paw. Sure, this would lead to some fatalities, especially with vengeful or agressive cats, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Not as much as hawks and owls.

>>16275584
>Sorry, I meant a real library, not your local pieces of crap filled with baby's first encyclopedia.
That assumes you:
1. Live in a big city
2. Don't watch it all burn down, or get quickly overrun with vermin
3. Can get there without dying (you're in unknown and likely hostile areas while getting there/back, and even inside).

>Also:
>1)Find ammo stash
>2)Take out propellant
>3) Have enough gunpowder to last generations
Not how gunpowder works for forming useful explosions, try again. Or you know, learn a bit about it before you talk.

Everyone thinks cats and rats are the only thing to watch out for.
>Big Toads
>Weasels/Ferrets
>Raccoons
>Skunks
>Predatory birds
>SNAAAAAAAAKES

>>16275555
Mental Skills:
-Tinkering
-Speech
-Evaluate
-Perception

Movement Skills:
-Climb
-Swim
-Hide
-Sprint/Run

Combat Skills:
-Dodge
-Grab (both to grabbing stuff and grabbing AT stuff, like cart fur)
-Feint
-Strike Melee

>>16275069
>>16275018
>>16274957

You guys are absolutely the worst type of people. This is obviously meant as a light hearted fun focused setting, and you come in here and try to shit it up by say "YEAH BUT WHAT YOU LIKE IS WRONG"

If you don't like the idea or its not grimdarkdarkgrimsuperserious enough for you. Then go somewhere else.

>>16275654
I'm assuming you're the same guy as the library/guns guy. Shut up. You're a fucking idiot, and you're being a complete asshole. Out with you.

>>16275671
Nice additions.
Should we keep the skills limited to 4 or 5 per group? I like that idea since it keeps it simple and less cluttered.

>>16275529
>The kick will most likely kill the operator though. Stupid idea is stupid.
The recoil will not kill anyone as long as the zipgun isn't designed by a compete retard. Knock on their ass? Maybe. Kill? Hell no. People are shooting huge rifle-shaped cannons and don't die. Most of them don't even bruise their shoulder.

>>16275539
>hurr, 10cm tall people cannot do ANYTHING, not even press a button, activate emergency brake, or open a bag of pretzels
Are your parents related to each other?

>>16275683
The one for, or against the idea? Because he's not the only one saying it's a dumb idea. (I'm one of them.)

Guys, for comparison, your average Coke can is just shy of 5 inches tall.

>>16275681
>>BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW

>>16275671
What about also having Ranged and Block in the Combat section?

>>16275691
Yeah, and improvised weapons those are NOT.

>>16275657
I think you're missing a bit about how farming will work in the grim darkness of the tiniest millenium.

Let's start with corn. It's a massive staple crop. It's also fucking tall. You're going to have to climb up it, somehow sever the ear, probably by hacking at it for a few hours, then haul it around.

Large scale planting? Don't even think about it. Your only hope is to find some fertilizer and soil, and plant seeds. Lots of them. If the bugs don't eat the fruit (you may have to actively guard it), and the plant doesn't die of disease, you *might* be able to harvest food in such large quantities that you'll need a massive, dedicated preservation crew to get enough to last through winter.

Foraging for food is much more practical - there are tons of common edible plants out there. Want some sugar? Fell a stalk of clover and get a nectar buzz. There's plenty out there that you shouldn't even need to farm, if you're not in the city.

Also, pesticides. That anti-tick lawn turf you spread? You're dead now. Sucks to be you.

Tamed animals might be good. Mice, being timid and docile as a rule. Heck, there's a lot of small passive animals out there you can use, if you can tame them.

>>16275681
Actually I would say these guys are the cancer:
>>16275683
>>16275657
>>16275602
>>16275565
>>16275263

>>16275707
>I block the cat paw!
>Don't... don't even bother rolling. You die.

>>16275351
yeah but this isn't after people, there are still a fuck load of people, they're just tinier.

>>16275554

Yeah, the carrion scavenger and the herbivore have suddenly developed a taste for a meal that fights back who is made of meat?

>>16275716
Yeah, but I'm guessing that's because they're all replying to posts you made.

>>16275722
But unable to maintain a house like they could before. No power, no running water, no sewage processing...

That last part would lead to a lot of disease in any new settlements.

>>16275683
Actually not... I'm the RL farmer.

>>16275713
>>16275654
>>16275529
>all me

And you're the fucking idiot if you think a mouse is going to attack a 4-inch human.

If we are four inches tall and the average step is 8 inches and there are typically around 30 steps in a house staircase, a stair climb isn't gonna be much more than a BIG hill climb. Certainly not an epic adventure.

It's only around 60 times the height of our 4 inch selves.

Whereas the average mountain is around 22,000 times the height of a human.

>>16275720
lol, yeah there is that.
I was thinking Block would be more for fighting raiders of other minis.

>>16275713
Hey, farmboy, why don't you use your brain and consider that people would do something different from the norm because they're in a different situation? Stop going hurr hurr I'm better than all these stupid urbies.

>>16275657
>>16275602
>>16275565
>>16275263
>>16275730
Samefag detected. GTFO cancer.

>>16275691
>hurr, 10cm tall people cannot do ANYTHING, not even press a button, activate emergency brake, or open a bag of pretzels
Worthless insults aside, no. There's a shitton of stuff a 4 inch person can't do. Maybe they can press an emergency brake (it'll be hard), but they sure can't do it when they first shrink and have no goddamn idea what's going on. Not before they crash, anyways. Sure they can probably open a bag of pretzels, but can they get to the bag? Humans tend not to store things in the reach of pests, which humanity now is.

None of what you said has any bearing on what I said. Are your parents hurr durr not gonna bother.

I think 3-5 generations is about the right time frame. Time enough for people to have found their bearing and established small communities, but still an immensely dangerous world. Communities will be few and relatively far away. Life would be nothing like what it is to us now - it would be, make no mistake, post apocalyptic. But that's what makes it interesting.

>>16275753

The hill is a gentle incline where stairs are straight vertical surfaces, if you're lucky. Still, probably not a lot of effort needed. Getting to the roof now, that'll be an adventure.

>>16275758
Hey dumbass. I know this shit. You don't. That makes me, in this field, better than you. Live with it.

Also, since when is foraging, rudimentary farming, and a harvest operation the norm? I've mostly seen speculation on hunting, haven't seen anything about domesticated mice.

Here is a good question:

What would people use a currency? Would there even be currency or would it all be trading?

>>16275758
Not him, but you will do something different from the norm. You'll die.

>>16275777

Make a ladder form match sticks.

Easy.

After five generations, I imagine that there will already be a system of ladders set up. Maybe even a Lego cart system. That'd be fucking awesome.

>>16275698

Pic for visual comparison.

Imagine trying to work a vending machine...

>>16275739

Hey RL Farmer guy, what about windowboxes and kitchenboxes for growing stuff? I mean you'd basically only be able to grow berries and herbs and tomatoes but it would be able to feed a small community.

>>16275790
currency requires stable government and banking.
Barter will probably be the economy for a very long time.

>>16275793
(That will be the norm then.)

>>16275794
There would probably be ladders in settlements, but what about the house across the street or down the block? That would be where the adventure is, where the danger lies.

>>16275769
I don't think a car crash at 70kmph is going to kill 4 inch human. It's the same principle as how kicking a mouse across the street isn't going to kill it but a human flying across the street probably would.

>>16275804

This is probably something that could be solved with ladders, too. Or homemade explosives.


I am also thinking of solid fuel rockets and parachutes for insanely fun transportation.

>>16275753
>tallest mountain on earth: 8km heigh, mount everest
>Medium humar: 1,8 meters
>1,8 m x 22.000 = 39,6km.

you wrong dude

>>16275806
Note the fact that our metabolism is now in OH FUCK mode.
Small mass:surface area ratio, no fur = lots of heat loss => Relativity huge calorie requirement

>A group of adventurers enter a house that, unbeknownst to them, houses a cockroach colony.


THE HORROR

>>16275815

35 mph collision from you onto the safety glass because you have no seatbelt stopping you? You'd break a few bones, minimum. Worst case is you go splat or you hook onto the steering wheel and break your back or neck.

>>16275790
Bartering seems more likely. Currency doesn't have value unless everyone agrees it has value, and that's unlikely unless it's backed up by something. Given the lack of real governments I doubt there'd be any sort of real currency.

>>16275830
We've covered that already.

>>16275830
clothes dickward- doll house clothes

>>16275835

Spiders would be so much worse
Or BEES.

Stairs wouldn't be a problem, even with vertical surfaces. Just jump. At four inches, we're all super basketball players.

>>16275816
>parachutes
Fun Tip: Your terminal velocity is now too low to result in injury. You can fall out of an airplane and walk away from the landing.

>>16275830

So what you're saying is that in the Grim Darkness of the Tiniest Future, only Greeks are suited to survive the darkness?

>>16275647
>Here.
I'll just leave this here. I believe it is relevant. Especially the increase in proportionate strength. It all depends on how science or magic you want this thing, maybe you can make a compromise between the two. http://fathom.lib.uchicago.edu/2/21701757/

I had a cool idea for a system, OP.

All that class bullshit? Ditch it. At the start, you have no proficiencies, and have to journey to a distant "megacity" to gain skills from the people there, but there's a different town for each skill(i.e. a town full of medics, a town full of builders with crazy architectural shit, and such.)
It would also be cool if you made this into a downloadable torrent file, with printable text docs and char sheets. Think about it, op.

>>16275806
If you can get it down, it'd work ok. But you won't have nearly the same yield you would from plants that are put straight into the soil. We have seven foot tomato plants right now that yield pounds of fruit. You'd get maybe a 3 foot plant from a window box and a fifth as much fruit.

If you needed to plant, the windowbox isn't useless though. The potting soil is excellent for starting plants. Putting a seed in hard-packed soil = failure. Mounding up a few inches of potting soil THEN putting your seed in = viable plant. Fertilizer is also good - in fact, in such a society, you'd most likely have people foraging for animal feces just to fertilize plants. Assuming you're not in a farm supply store. If you're in one of those, you've taken the first step towards a new empire, because you will always have food.

Major farming issues: Keeping the area clear enough to grow. Grass chokes out plants, fast. In this case, a bunch of window planters or pots might be really really good. You'll be totally unable to plow or till soil, and you'll need to be very careful to not let weeds grow in the area to be farmed.

Considering that no matter what, in time bare ground will become meadow, window planters or plant boxes (any kind of raised bed, really) may actually be your best shot at long-term survivability based on farming alone.

>>16275868
Themed towns seems a little of since the distance between towns is now a year travel where it used to be three hours drive

>>16275835
>cockroaches attack 4-inch high animals
>wat
The psychological barrier would be the biggest problem, not the bugs themselves, who will just ignore you.

I have yet to see a mouse or rat killed by cockroaches.

>>16275855
Bees are very docile if not threatened.

>>16275842
Yet people have yet to understand it.
see
>>16275845

As an example: This is a shrew.
It is 55–82 millimetres (2.2–3.2 in) long and weighs 5–12 grams (0.2–0.4 oz)
Note the massive fur and spheroid shape? This is to make it possible to survive being a mammal at this size.
It still needs to eat 2 to 3 times it's body mass per day to survive.

Humans are not build this heat efficiently.

>>16275905
mfw I forget the image

>>16275830
Luckily, our strength-to-mass is actually pretty fucking good. With our dimensions reduced by a factor of 17-18 (I'm estimating an average human height and weight here), we'd still be able to lift about ten pounds if we really exerted ourselves.
Shit would look like a comic book where everyone has super strength.

>>16275892

Unless each 'town' are houses next to each other in which case it's a mere 3-4 days journey down the block or through the 'forest.'

What about dogs? I mean, they're a lot bigger than we are but we ought to smell the same and they might not be hostile to us as a result of it, so wouldn't the first generation have been able to utilize dogs as 'massive' beasts of burden or war mounts or something?

>>16275899
I meant the psychological aspect.

I know little of cockroach behavior, but wouldn't they at least defend themselves if needed?


Also, most of you guys are taking this idea WAY too seriously. This is meant to be a fun RPG, not a simulation.

>>16275913
Depends on how much handwavium you use for the actual shrinkage. I believe the implication was that metabolism will work the exact same way scaled as it does now, ergo normal food requirements.

I mean, look at it this way. Are our cells smaller, or are we now made up of less cells? If smaller, then chemistry has stopped working. If less cells, we don't have enough brain to do anything. At all. That's why the Rule of Fun/Rule of Cool was created, along with Handwavium.

>>16275855
needle swords are good against bugs, but fuck jumping spiders.

but at 4 inches only the largest in the tropical regions would be a horror show.

as for cats and the like, getting some small screw driver spears would be awesome. you'd have to remove the handle but it could work i have some right now that would be awesome for a 4 inch person since they're light, sharp and about the right thickness.

and yes animals are fast and shit, but hunters don't like getting injured for a meal. A man fought off a bear using only an arrow (he was hunting with a bow and arrow) he was pinned to the ground and managed to stab the bear.

the bear unused to be stabbed back fled.

same with a cat, nothing wants to risk its life for food if it doesn't have to.

a match torch and a spear and about 10 other friends with similar load outs would be a good way to keep predators as bay.

also god forbid you have a nail firmly embedded to the end of a chop stick and have a pike. that use percussion caps to startle the animal and try and scare it.

no reason to one v one it.

>>16275905
doesn't it eat some of the lowest-calorie food imaginable though? We could eat sugar and survival bars and take a bite oout of a multivitamin for the rest of our nutrients, right?

>>16275829

Derp, I meant 2200.

Assuming the average mountain height is around 3500m - 4000m.

>>16275932
>we ought to smell the same and they might not be hostile to us as a result of it

two words: hyperactive Pomeranian

Also, try putting on a Halloween mask and see how well your dog recognizes based on scent. We would look different and they would be very cautious.

I don't know why people are trying for biological realism. The very premise of the setting clashes with any attempt at it. It'd be far better to run it under the tropes which are common to this sort of thing, rather than any expectation of realism. Considering the most common responses in this thread I doubt it'd have any real effect on suspension of disbelief.

Cool idea!

Thematic choices: big band of survivors, and you have to play some role within this (typically, going on quests for the good of the colony). Or: small band of survivors, travelling from place to place, fleeing from cats and barely getting by?

You say civilisation has reformed: you could belong to differing factions relating to the cause of the shrinking/what the best thing to do next would be.

>>16275963

I wasn't implying that it's a perfect system, only that it would be possible. Also, the mask thing doesn't hold water because we're smaller, not different looking. Still the same face and still the same voice, scent, all that stuff.

>>16275936
Have you seen any bug defend itself from a predator? They shit their metaphorical pants and run away, or struggle until they're worn out. And we're the size of coke cans. Nothing to fear at all.

Besides, who the fuck would hunt or attack cockroaches? There are much better food sources, and why attack something you don't need to?

>>16275955
I don't know if complex carbs would be a good idea. I mean, they're great for us at this size because we don't need the calories RIGHT THE FUCK NOW HOLY SHIT I AM HUNGRY I NEED TO EAT ANOTHER HALF POUND OF FOOD BEFORE SUNDOWN AND I ONLY WEIGH THREE FIFTHS OF A POUND. Fats and sugars would probably be our staples.

>>16275963
not to mention without human masters they will get hungry.

especially if trapped in a house.

>>16275952
Screwdriver? Too heavy. Way too heavy.

>>16275980
cockroaches are excelent protein and armour source

>>16275980

Grasshoppers are pretty high in protein last time I checked. You gotta cut them right so you don't eat their intestines or brains but that could be expected of a lot of animals we'd eat.

>>16275979
We'd sound a lot more high pitched to them, but convincing them otherwise could come under an animal handling skill...

>>16275936
>implying simulation RPGs can't be fun
We all enjoy different things. Some of us are major nerds/geeks and have a hard time with suspension of disbelief.

>>16275942
Granted. Well need to find a compromise that is playable/viable while still being somewhat realistic.

>>16275955
>diet consists mostly of insects, slugs, spiders, small mice and worms.
This is true. Maybe we could try a mouse?
www.ratfanclub.org/nutreq.html tells me that
>A rat will typically eat about 15 g of dry food blocks a day. So a kg of diet will feed between 52 and 76 rats, depending on their size. A rat needs about 60 calories a day depending on size.
60 kcal is about one apple.

Well, if people insist on bringing up the heat generation thing, I'm sure that after 5 generations of existence everybody would be wearing thick and efficient clothing. It's not like as if people have problems with instantly freezing to death in the Antartic, given the appropriate clothing.

>>16275306
Actually I can. When I was younger, I used to make homemade fireworks and the like, and I have the burn scars on my arm to prove it. Granted the recipe I used is not as effective in ballistics and the like, and doing it the proper way would probably have ended with a lot more than a few scars but my point is I'm sure there's a few people who can do it the proper way.

Imagine how dangerous fleas or ticks would be

>>16276004
If you're worrying about armor, you're doing it wrong. This isn't DND, you shouldn't be putting yourself in situations where you need armor. You're surviving, not conquering the Basement Dungeon where dwells the Rat Lich of Doom and his Feline Minions (with a bulldog boss fight).

Not to mention chitin is shit-tier, and something that thin won't do anything anyways.

>>16276002
If biologically accurate, the main problem would be that it's too cumbersome, unless we're talking precision screwdrivers that we could actually grip effectively. But if total handwavium then yeah, it'd be too heavy. Unless, again, it was precision screwdrivers.

>>16276027
If you have that difficult of time with suspension of disbelief, I don't see how you could overcome the central issue of how the fuck are you still functioning a human with a brain smaller than a d20.

>>16276054
Central premise.
Same reason that I don't have an issue with magic in fantasy games, just the bit about getting hit in the face by an exploding ball of fire that barely singes me...

>>16276042
Although a tiny D&D campaign might have its merits:
"So you think you've min-maxed the game into submission? You (and none of your equipment) are now permanently 4 inches tall, that black dragon is still dragon sized and you've still got to complete the quest. GO!"

>>16276008
Hard to catch/kill. Again, we're the size of a coke can. Small animals are our best bet.

>>16276027
Can we just handwave this already and assume that everything works as it does normally? It's been beaten into the ground.

>>16275306
The main problem would be finding someone who took sulphur tablets and getting to their bathroom, or making the long trek to the nearest pharmacy or Wal-Mart. Once we run out of that, it's pretty much down to a long, dangerous voyage up the nearest dormant volcano.

>>16276002
like i said the smaller ones, the ones i have with me.
DIPSHIT

the second one in this image.

>>16275306
Guys, guys. Seriously guys. Guys, listen. Roman Candle MLRS. On a Tonka truck.

>>16276083
Or a jaunt over to the nearest gun store to raid ammo. It's mostly useless anyways - it's simply impractical. I mean, rig some explosives and somehow get the animal to step on them right as you set them off? Use a shell, rendering most calibers far too large?

And good luck not having your small, fragile eardrums destroyed by the sound and shockwave.

It seems that we need to have two separate settings for the idea.
One that only takes into account our relative size to our environment.
And one that includes the physical implications of that change

>>16276039
A tick could probably easily kill a sleeping man in less than an hour. A flea might be another story, but they would still be deadly. A mosquito would be a monstrosity that could kill a man easily. Imagine the horrors of trying to find water near dusk.

Any urban area would have a few places where elemental and compounds would be in abundant supply. It's pretty much guaranteed your local warehouse or industrial district would have anything you need. After a few generations trade links would be quickly established.

The Romans got silk from China, so I doubt procuring supplies would be a problem in any case. It's just that if your nearest source is far away, you'll have to pay more for it.

>>16276127
>rig some explosives and somehow get the animal to step on them right as you set them off?
>as you set them off
>Implying they would go off on their own
TRIPWIRES, MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU USE THEM?

>>16276087
I have one of those too. It'll be horrifically unwieldy. Horribly balanced, and not really sharp enough to be worth it. Needles are a much better bet.

Oh, and sorry about the tourettes bro. Must suck.

>>16276140
It's a good thing that with the smaller size we'll be able to see and hear them coming.

Cockroaches would be your worst BOSS FIGHTS
They just wont fucken die!!!

What if instead of humans shrinking, everything else is made bigger such that humans are now equivalently to 4 inches on a new giant ruler. It would still look the same but humans would experience normal physics.

>>16275829
>1.8x22,000 is not the same as 1.8x22.000

No dude, you're wrong.

>>16276182
Does everything become four times less dense, or are we crippled by the increased gravity?

>>16276140
All of the above won't target something so small.

>>16276150
Bad phrasing. What I meant was being able to set them off as the animal was right there. Tripwires will be far too complex - simplicity is key. Sure, given time you could engineer and pull together a tripwire and detonator (good luck there), but it's simply not practical.

Most of you are thinking about this in the wrong way. Elemental compounds so you can make explosives? You'll starve to death first. Your tech level was just shot back to caveman-era, with a few boons like seeds, potting soil, legos, and fertilizer. Stop thinking like it's the 21st century, because it's not any more. Explosive toys are not priority, shelter, food, and killing things that want to kill you are.

And trade networks? Don't even get me started.

>>16276178
Are you joking? What about these guys? Larger, heavily armoured, two deadly claws and no weak spots. What can you do?

>>16276224
>Your tech level was just shot back to caveman-era
No, our infrastructure was just effectively shot back to caveman era. Our tech level is the same.

>>16276224
this guy is closer to the spirit in wich this thread was intented. But feel free to use the general idea any other way.

also, the reason I choose 4 inches its because thats the average size of the average toy soldier GI joe style

Pic related.

>>16276224
Mosquitoes will feed off of bird, ticks will feed off of small rodents and such.

They will still attack us, maybe not as frequently, but they will.

>>16276224
After 5 generations I'm sure shelter and food isn't going to be much of a problem. It might be that in 5 generations a drive to retake neglected land would be a mojor force in society.

>>16276258
And no desire or need to attack something that large.

Moot point.

>>16276199
Less dense maybe? Gravity working differently? Basically, everything just becomes bigger (more molecules?) but humans and human relation to the world remains the same.

I guess we gotta ask ourselves which would be more fun: playing super jumpy light humans that never suffer falling damage; or vanilla humans in a vast and unforgiving world?

>>16276329
So you don't want to attack a giant enemy crab for it's delicious, nutritious meat? Then take its shell and use it as a magnificent trophy/wall?

>>16276224
Taking me a little while because I have to think small, but here we go.
1. Spark plug for some platinum, give me a heat source and some ammonia and I'll be able to whip up some nitric acid.
2. I need booze. Preferably Everclear. And break open that thermometer for me.
3. Be VERY careful with this shit, we don't have the industrial base to make this more stable.
4. Spring, pin, wire, other pin.
5. Now we play the waiting game.

>>16275892
>>16275892
lol, late response. This is five generations after shrinkage, so you'd figure that humans would build colonies about a 5 days walk away at most. >>16276124
>>16276124
>>16276124
pic very much related.

>>16276263
>nope.jpg

We may know these things, but it will be both pointless and futile to pass them on, and we can't use this knowledge for anything. Because of the Rule of Cool, I would disregard that fact in an actual game, but expect almost immediate degredation.

What we need are gunslingers, riding domesticated mice and wearing cowboy hats. Of course, I said gunslingers, buttheir guns would be be carried and operated like bazookas.

>>16276403
Well, all it would take would be for someone to rediscover lost knowledge, have a knowledgeable ancestor inscribe what he knows somewhere or just repurposing all the old equipment lying around. Once someone starts doing something it won't be long beofre someone else starts copying it. And if it's particulalry useful it'll spread like wildfire.

>>16275439
stole my THUNDA!

Also, the bullet trip mine sounds like a trap from Monster hunter. Couldn't a large group of well drilled people take down cats and such?

>>16276493
Please tell me there's instructions to make that thing somewhere.

>>16276493
>Couldn't a large group of well drilled people take down cats and such?

Yes, it may be difficult, but yes. Some people in this thread can't grasp that.

>>16276508
It's probably going to be the first thing that the first generation tries once they settle down.

>>16276403
>don't teach people to read
>voluntary dark age

>>16276505
I found it on BrickWall. Otherwise, I can't help you. So I read once of a monster hunter rpg, couldn't we look to it for some insights?

Also, wasps are now vivisectors.

The real question is...How awesome would be Legions of tiny humans storming each others fortress with improvised weapons*

>>16276563
"RC's are weaving through Front Street, sir. They seem to be...my God, sir. They have bottle rockets."

>>16276592
"Bring out the behemot!"
"But, Sir..."
"Your copy me soldier?"
"Y-yes sir"
Giant fixed shotgun with rotating base is brough fourth

ROFLMAO! Dildo siege engines!!!!

Captcha knows what I'm talking about: Mcrit onerbidd

>>16276617
That would be too silly, but imagine a sexual cult forming around one.

>The horror if someone was using a dildo when they shrank.

>>16276592
Fifth generation in, they would probably have their own words approximating the original terms.
Remote Control Anything: Arsee. Sky Arsee, Land Arsee, Sea Arsee.

You know, habitation dirigibles would be quite viable at that size.

>>16274152

>tough for our size

We weaken by the same ratio that we shrink by. Most people can only lift their own body weight and then thats a m ale centric thing. Being able to lift 500g isn't that impressive when your average rat can weigh that much and will be much bigger than you.

People need to remember that the shit we consider pets and vermin now can cut your rather badly when you weigh anything from 3 - 100x their weight. Now imagine the same power that hurts you NOW that can be applied to someone 1/18th of the size. Everything would be deadly. Bee stings would fuck you up IMMENSELY and so would foric acid from ants and you would be prime retail for alot of parasites that are too weak to affect us now.

You could make entire homes out of lego though and I guess a good engineer could jury rig something like a RC car to work like a normal car.

Wouldn't your brain shrink too, thereby making you a 4 inch tall little moron?

Wouldn't humans live naturally longer lives?
I mean, I'm pretty sure smaller dogs age better than larger dogs, so on and so forth.
I understand that humans aren't dogs, but couldn't it be possible that some of the children that shrunk would still be alive, albeit old, during the fifth generation? Maybe even some of the older ones?

In my next post, I'll be outlining my own ideas of a basic system that could work for this.

>>16276674
>We weaken by the same ratio that we shrink by.
Not scientifically, but if we're going to go with that, let's handwave it.

NEW THREAD

>>16276724
>>16276724

>>16276680

There would be many things wrong with our anatomy for it to work at this scale.

We're just ignoring the reality so we can enjoy the awesome.

Oh I love this thread

some thoughts:

1) >stairs
graplings hooks! LADERS! Make laders out of toothpics and glue/scotch tape/crazy glue

2) >legos and how 'solid' they are
Crazy glue + lego = you're not EVER splitting those apart. You want a quick watertight housing? done. A cart to haul around goods? done. With mindstorm stuff and enough extra batteries, you have a programable car (but it requires a computer to program)

3) >weapons
Someone already mentioned needles. Very good idea.
Also, for a four inch human, a nine inch nail would make for a mean club.

4) >versus predator animals
most animals dont like stuff that fights back

A lighter, some scissors, a few credit cards - cut the cars, use lighter to heat the bits so you can bend them. Now you have armor that very few animals can claw through. The swipe of a cat wont pierce a mastercard. And if you poke it just once with a needle-rapier it sure as hell wont bother trying to eat you.

Needle-spears are also a perfectly valid option.

>>16276788

Also, against cats then a thumb-tac minefield is nice fine too. put close enough together and crazy-glued to the floor no cat can avoid it. ...but it might be able to jump over it.

if everything else fails, light a match and burn the fucker.

hm... what else

all the people talking about "small humans need more food" - for the sake of the game lets say they dont. Just scale down the volume of food they need. we're talking four inch humans, some suspension of disbelief is already required

finally, for agriculture, there are simple simple short term solutions:

I live in denmark, and here we commonly grow this thing called Garden cress (Lepidium sativum) - wikipedia also calls it garden pepper cress, pepper grass, pepperwort or poor man's pepper

thing is, you 'plant' this in a bed of wool with water in it - and it takes ONE week to grow it into one inch stalks - here in denmark we cut it off with scissors and use it garnish food.

pic related - the stuff will grow god damn everywhere. This is your new crop. enjoy it.

>its also really good for pranks

The aged Veteran looked around from atop the crumbled wall. His nail-sword hanging from his waist, as he carried his walking staff in one hand and a piece of leaf with a sketchy map on the other.
"I'm afraid this area is way too far into the yard. How far away we are from the Tire Arch?"
"I'd say over thirty feet sire."
The veteran sighed. "This is barbarian lands folks. Keep your swords ready"
"Isn't there a way around it sire?"
The veteran pointed knowingly at the sky, or to the branches and leaves that covered most of it, providing a nice shadow. "there is no safe path for day-travel, soldier. Hawks dwell often in this area. We must stay under the trees."
As this words left his lips, a familiar sounds of something big moving on the bushs nearby alerted the company. It came from the left, and soon the shape was clearly visible.
"DOG!" Screamed the veteran "Assume battle positions! Form a line, form a line!"

SkillSheet for the four inch tall humans system.
Mental: How intelligent you are.
Streetsmart: appliable knowledge: experience, skills etc
Booksmart: facts and information: logic, rationalization, etc
Physical: How suited you are for survival.
Strong: lifting ability, power
Hardy: Endurance, toughness
Combat: How well you can fight.
Tactical: Split second decision making, think on your feet
Strategic: Long term goals, well thought out plans

Characters are given five points to use on this.

>>16276917
Example skillsheet filled with a trapmaking based character in mind.
I put two points in booksmart, hopefully that will help me in making traps by abusing my knowledge of math and physics etc.
I put one point in both strong and hardy to help me in lifting multiple trap components, and the ability to run away to lead large game(rats) to the trap.
I put my last point in tactical to help with split second decisions in case I am caught off guard away from my traps springy gizmos.

>>16276932
Well interesting sheet butwhat kind of dice rolls would you use? I was thinking in a d6 system whre the points are the bonus for the tests...Let's say you have a 2 point hardy character and you are holding up a diesise you got from eating fungus, you would roll 2d6+2 and you'll would need to get Xto make a successfull test.And for levelling maxing out would pe pretty easy.I like you the sheet is but we could improve it.