Hillbillies are more mountainous folk, but you're redneck swampfolk are pretty reliably good at living in a swamp. There's no reason to use their lifestyle as an example.

Indians in the Amazon. There's a good start for you.

New Orleans.

Well if they're lizard folk then they don't mind getting wet. Otherwise you definitely want to build houses on wooden supports above the water line.

you need some way to get around and carry stuff, so boats. Even lizardmen probably need to keep things dry.

You won't be too worried about getting dirty, matter of fact that might wind up killing your immune system.

Are these just humans or lizard guys like the pic implies? Cause there are humans who live in swamps, so you can definitely start looking there.

I live in southern Louisiana. While I'm not a Cajun myself, I have friends who are. They get by reliably. Lots of small game in the swamp, and lots of fishing. Fishing is pretty huge. And fowl hunting in the appropriate seasons. They can get by on what they hunt or trap themselves, really, though trade with the outside world is pretty common. I think there's a show on Discover Channel/Netflix about cajuns during Gator Season. Probably a good starting point.

>>17065388
>>17065379
>>17065362
>>17065361
Eeh, probably humans. I just used the Argonian for reference.
Should have made that clear, sorry.

Berlin is on a swamp. Hell, the name comes from a word for "swamp".

Tall/heavy buildings are generally a bad idea because they fucking sink.

So, pic related, Argonian capital.

Canoe's, bridges, and stilted houses. People would probably be wearing sandal's, and shorts/capri's.

>>17065399
Medieval tho.
Like, is agriculture at all sustainable in these areas or would they be a hunting/reliant society?
And, again, what sort of clothing is comfortable in these areas? I assume it would get pretty humid but I'd also guess you'd want coverage to avoid getting stung or wet.

>>17065408
Thats if its low tech, early civilization Otherwise, maybe think Venice?

>>17065379

But then you'd STILL build on posts so crocodiles and annoying insects stay the hell away.

By the way, OP, what level of advancement would you think these people have reached?

swamps can have dry patches...

and there'll be plenty of bog iron to make into iron and steel

and plenty of trees for coal production

and if we use skyrim as a reference - then even cold mountainous regions can have swampy areas (the area between windhelm and the rift)

by that logic the black marshes will have dry areas too - and even the occational hill... that can be dug into, or built upon

heck, in DORF FORTRESS it was possible to mine down through aquifiers - and its equally possible IRL... you just need to pump out water
>historic fun fact: some of the first industrial steam engines were used to run water pumps to keep mines in england dry

Alot of clothing would be made from plant materials. Tons of small game and fishing to be done. Stilt housing would be used. Swamps have some of the freshest water because moss filters it rather well. Tons of natural edibles like cranberrys and cattails. Swamps are quite easy to live in if you dont mind getting wet and know what to eat.

>>17065362
Where does the Amazon run through India?

just outside berlin

>>17065409
Swamps are crawling with life, agriculture is possible with moving fields, settign up barriers draining a section of land planting in the exposes and very nutricios soil, harvesting, letting water back in and then moving on.

Heavy reliance on rubber trees for waterproofing footwear.

>>17065414
Standard fantasy kitchen sink level.
So far, I've got stilts, canoes, and low, light buildings. Presumably made of wood or clay.

Anyway, I have to get to class, hopefully this thread will survive 4 hours...

>>17065430

ya, draining fields is a good solution

heck, there's a reason that Holland is known as "Nedderland" - Nedder means lower... as in bellow surface level. they drained marshes and swamps to increase agriculture areas.

>>17065425
All non-African, non-Australian natives are Indians because Europe didn't actually know where India is. Thank you for trolling and please come again soon.

>When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.

Boats and fishing.

>>17065430
Herding dugongs, harvesting tubers, roots, vines, pineaples, geoducks, and farming crayfish.
Trained dolphin/dugong mounts?

>>17065444
Im thinking a system of draining and re-floodign marshland to let it regain nutrients

>>17065444

>"Nedderland"

It's the Netherlands in English, and Nederland in Dutch. Neder means about the same as Nether. I had to correct you on that. Also, Holland is a part of the Netherlands, not vice versa, although it's very often referred to as that.

Bayou folk are a good place to start on the simple harsh end, on the other end of the spectrum look at Venice and Aztec Mexico city for inspiration .

>>17065464
never understood why people forom Holland are called Dutch, allways assumed some dumbass clerk misheard Deutch

>>17065464

my bad. I'm just a stupid europoo


either way - the point is that its possible to drain large tracts of lands to make it viable agriculture land

would make for nice potential plot points between oldschool natives wanting to preserve the marshes - and more industrious imperial-friendly factions

a bit like foresworn/nords in the reach

>>17065484
Oh yeah! The.. Aztec? Floating farms..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinampas.

Hmm.. maybe even floatign citys, rasts cobbled together, ans staked into the ground then pushed on when resources need to recover.

Also makes them nightmares to attack, armoured footmen and mounted knights? meet quicksand, bottomeless holes and guard alligators/snake catapults.

>>17065489

I'd have expected better from a fellow europoo. But no harm done, mistakes are human.

And you're right. In fact, there's a province in the middle of the Netherlands that was drained (it has a silly name too: FLEVOLAND)

Plus, if they build a dam they can regulate, they can flood their farm for fertile soil.

All this lizarding and swamping makes me wanna play Heroes III's Fortress

>>17065444
NEDERLAND, NEDERLAND! Just one D!

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

>>17065487
Dumbass fucking retard cuntarse English confusing us Dutch with the Germans (German is Duits in Dutch, and Deutsch in German.)

>>17065409
You'd be looking at hunting, fishing, and subsistence farming. Most crops will be hardy vines or bushes, probably fruits and berries. Hunting and fishing will be the main source of food. Deer, rabbit, racoon, armadillo, nutria (tastes horrible but they breed fast), duck, goose, gator, any kind of freshwater fish, most kinds of shallow-water saltwater fish if they're near a coast, anything that can be hunted from the comfort of a boat.

Culturally, they're going to be somewhat insular, staying to their own communities a lot, but ridiculously friendly once you open a dialogue.

They're always eager to ask someone to visit their family's home (most families live in one building or a series of close-together buildings) for dinner, which is always a communal event usually involving large amounts of food being prepped and cooked on the spot. Food is a VERY big thing with them, and they take pride in family recipes and the flavors they can evoke from the simplest foods. Many have their own spice gardens with dazzling arrays of scents and flavors (that may just be a southerner thing)

They're very giving, always glad to share some leftovers (seriously, i never leave my friend Jon's place without him talking me into taking a box of homemade jerky or venison. He'd have me take a whole side of venison if i had a freezer big enough) and they're always eager to help anyone who appears to need it. Whether it's building a building, digging a ditch, hauling in a day's catch, or tracking down a thief, the entire community can be expected to come together to assist, even assisting outsiders. They have a strong sense of 'we only get by because we're all friends'.

>>17065554
They tend to be master boat-builders. They won't build you anything ridiculously big or ostentatious, but they can build a small, fast, flatbottom craft that maneuvers in the swamps almost as well as the fish themselves. It'll be utilitarian, but very efficient at what it does. And usually built by hand (even the all-metal boats they use today). Simple though their tech may appear, they are by no means stupid. Anything that can give them an edge is fair game, and many have developed their own complex winch systems of pulleys to help move 800 pound gator carcasses without assistance.

They're big on tradition, and many hunting techniques and other facets of life have remained unchanged for the last 200 years in the cajun swamps.

Despite their love of hunting, they're often animal lovers and you can guarantee that most families will have a dog or four on hand to help with hunting, home protection, and general companionship.

>>17065404
Fun Fact: so are most of the cities on the Eastern US.

It's probably the access to water that draws folks there, so make the swamp people big maritime traders.

>>17065554
>lurking in the depths of horrible toxic swamps - they lurk
>AMERICAN COMMUNIST COMMUNES!

>>17065554
>>17065564
Clubs, Spears and Javelins as cultural weapons.
Keeps shit at a distance and/or keeps useful skins as intact as possible.
Cobblers and wise folk are reveres, cause foot-rot will kill you dead it will.

>>17065578

A lot of olden time major cities were build near rivers, oceans, cliffs and swamps. Access to water is vital, and of course, cliffs are attractive for an added fortress. Belgrade got fucked a lot in history because of its proximity near the Danube and the Sava.

I also recall that the Egyptians had crocodile leather armour. I think that would be perfect for swamp folk.

>>17065578
Washington DC was built on a swamp simply for the challenge. New Orleans was built in a depression in the middle of a swamp because it granted tactical and economic control over the mouth of the mississippi river, access to the gulf of Mexico, and access to a sizable lake.

>>17065424
>swamps have fresh water
>never been to a swamp

>>17065594
Yup, tough as hell, light and flexible.

>>17065618
You don't have to stick you cup in the bog, look for streams or dig for it.

>>17065589
Like I said earlier, swamp-folk will take any tech advantage they can get. If your world's tech accounts for crossbows, swampers will probably have them, either by trade or by manufacture.

>>17065594
>I also recall that the Egyptians had crocodile leather armour. I think that would be perfect for swamp folk.
depends on the nature of the swamps. If they're hot, humid pressure cookers like Southern louisiana, then there's no way that'd work. Too hard to swim in in an emergency, too hot during the summer (heat stroke is a very real issue), and the scent of the preserved hide would tip off gators and other animals that you're close. Maybe in a colder climate swamp or strictly as a town-guard thing.

>>17065618
Depends on the swamp. I live sort-of in a salt-water swamp, but there's a fresh-water one on higher ground nearby. I wouldn't drink it, but it wouldn't kill you to do so. And you could definitely dig a well there.

>>17065625

Thing I'm wondering is: Is crocodile/alligator leather waterproof?

Swamp inhabitants would benefit greatly from leather that's water resistant, but I can't find anything on it. Just that they would have to oil it.

Rome was originally built on swampland. Make of that as you will.

>>17065663
>Thing I'm wondering is: Is crocodile/alligator leather waterproof?

Your skin is waterproof, why do you need waterproof clothing?

>>17065665

But Rome lacks "swampy" qualities. I vision I got from OP was a kind of "wooden houses on stilts, rope bridges, etc. I picture the swamp scenes from the Pirates movies.

>>17065686

Why do some fishermen wear those rubber pants?

Besides, water doesn't do nice things to leather.

>>17065686
Because hypothermia is a bitch and contact with water accelerates the process dramatically.

>>17065696
>Why do some fishermen wear those rubber pants?

Because the water is cold and they could contract hypothermia

That wouldn't be an issue in a muggy swamp

>>17065686
>>Your skin is waterproof

No it isn't. Your skin absorbs quite a bit of water. That's why you get pruny fingers when you spend too long bathing/swimming/out in the rain.

>>17065701

ta-dah.

Ask the finns, their country is basically a huge, cold swamp.

>>17065686
Because trenchfoot kills. Because some water contains substances that irritate skin. Because water makes you more likely to go into hypothermia. Because I don't want to get fucking wet.

This is like saying "Your skin blocks out the elements, why do you need a coat?"

>>17065710

If I recall correctly, that's a common misconception.

The pruning of your fingers is due to an automatic reaction by your brain. The pruning helps increase traction on wet surfaces, a byproduct from our ancestors who climbed a lot.

>>17065706
Snakes, fantasy powered fire-ants and super swamp necrotizing poison ivy shit is.

>>17065754
Don't know about pruning, but we DO absorb water through skin. Or other things.

>>17065754
You recall incorrectly, I'm afraid.

>>17065352
Fishing, houses on stilts/tall foundations, clothing that doesn't get ruined by being wet and likely a lot of waterproof clothing. Not very metal rich unless they trade with the outside a lot, so expect more spears and bows than anything weapon-wise, boiled leather and hide for armor. Everyone who's anyone knows how to swim because it's probably vital to survival, and knows how to do it well. Rice and other plants that grow in swamps would be harvested for food, probably a (negigable by most game stats) resistance to diseases due to the nature of their lifestyle. Probably more accustomed to amphibians and sea life than most land-based cultures, but only for species living in rivers and bogs. Boats like rafts, canoes and gondolas are likely to be in no short supply.

Tons of swamp towns in Vietnam. Stilted houses. Pic related

You want a swamp-based culture that didn't turn hillbilly? Look up the Acadians of Canada's East coast

>>17065875
>Acadians
>Didn't turn hillbilly

...AHAHAHAHA. Bro, I live in NS, and the entire province is just a classless boozefest.

>>17065852

Good. Now imagine twenty of those of various sizes and heights and floors, and stick em together in a single sort of palace building.

Though maybe they could also live in the trees.

>>17065838
and sugar cane. Lots of sugar cane.

>>17065409
There's agriculture that swamps can sustain (rice paddies & old-fashioned cranberry farms are in swamps, for example), as is animal husbandry in addition to hunting/foraging, so you can go any of those three routes or a combination of them.

>>17065713
Speaking of Finns, has anyone seen the horror movie Sauna?
In the movie there's this medieval village on a swamp and I was wondering how accurately it was depicted...

Not OP by the way

>>17065885
That is great. KURAST DOCKS?

>>17065886
Definitely. A lot of herbalism too, medicinal plants and swamps seem to be maddly in love with one another.

You forgot to mention an important factor.

Is it a hot swamp or a cold swamp, or temperate? Are you imagining the hot, muggy marshes of Louisiana or the freezing, clammy fens that used to be so common in Europe but have been driven to extinction with the industrial revolution?

This whole thread has me picturing a race/culture of bayou-dwelling Cajun lizardfolk...

AND IT IS AWESOME.

>>17065912
Or the doublehot, flooded swamps you get in India/Brazil/Indochina

>>17065899
Good point. Lots of unusual plantlife in swamps, and most of it useful in one way or another. And the natives will always find uses for everything. Simple herbal remedies, unusual or uncomfortable substitutes for things outsiders might think common but are unavailable in the swamps, and things that are just plain silly but seem to work.

>>17065948

"we call it the hardon orchid."

Swamps have very poor soil so it's not good for agriculture, this is why carnivorous plantes evolve in swamps.
As for a floating city, Venice of course.

>>17066046
Floating =/= Sinking

>>17065924
sounds to me like the blindwater congregation

Rio de la plata Argentina/Urugay/Paraguay
It works.

>>17066075
Or Heroes 3's Fortress

>>17066046

Swaps have very fertil soil if im not mistaken, thats why swaps are usually drained...farmland

>>17066098
indeed. marshy ground and swampland is incredibly potent farmland once the water is drained away due to all the organic detritus that settles down and builds up over time.

>>17066183

Might it be wise to use an irrigation system to flood the plots in between seasons, similar to the Nile?

Only "swamp people" in a game we encountered, a player made her character from the swamp region.

As per one of their many specializations, she was an ooze mage. By the thinking that they were surrounded by muck and slime all the time, so make use of it.

Amazing, the things you can do with slime when you use your imagination. Of course eventually she ended up becoming ooze herself, but that's neither here nor there. She became a world threat, who's laughing now?

>>17066197
The nile was a natural cycle, not an artificial one.

>>17066246

That's why I say similar.

I remember they build a dam on the Nile and agriculture got fucked.

>>17066263
because it disrupted the cycle.

likewise, drain-and-flood would screw up swampland. because that's not the normal cycle of things. Notice how when they drain swampland to create farmland, it doesn't easily return to swampland again?

Always feels good returning to a thread that took off.
Southeast Asian feels like a good reference point. Straw hats, rice paddies, that whole deal.
Whoever asked, I was planning on making it a muggy, hot, marshy area, with some hunting and fishing further in the swamp.
Of course, I was also planning on having them be a developed, culturally advanced society, so working that out without any large, heavy buildings is going to be an interesting challenge.
I'd imagine they would value ascetism, or at least frugalism, because material possessions would be unwieldy, perishable, and mostly pointless.

>>17065817

No, I remember reading about it in Scientific American, in an article having to do with brain size.

That is the reason skin prunes.

>>17066285

Well that's the thing I'm wondering.Build a dam, drain the water out, and flood in between seasons so the fertile residue can settle and fertilize the soil. Soil, after all, doesn't stay fertile forever.

>>17066285
IIRC one of the main methods for mass-harvesting cranberries is to flood the field, letting all the ripe berries snap off and float with the current then accumulate in a pool to be scooped up. You could play off of that, alternating what water source and byproducts you flooded a field with to re-fertilize the area.

>>17065838
> Not very metal rich
Dunno about the rest of the world, but medieval finns got most of their iron from swamps actually

>>17065893
Finn here
I don't watch Finnish movies, they make me feel embarrassed

>>17066390
>google swamp iron
>get this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizard_Man_of_Scape_Ore_Swamp

jesus christ how horrifying

As for clothing- I'm imagining light-ish, woven clothing with thick rubber boots.
Full sleeved shirts and coats, nothing too swishy.
Muted tones, to help them hunt.
Someone mentioned spears and bows. Those seem like the most useful weapons.

>>17066492
Pronged light spears for frog hunting

Now the only thing I need is armour.
Obviously leather wouldn't do too well, and metal would probably restrict movement too much....

>>17066557
Light clothes with some heavier leather patches sewn in? Specifically for combat, some cool reptile leather like alligator I guess.

>I ask because I've never actually been near a swamp and trying to google any variation of swamp culture/people/civilisation always ends up as HILLBILLIES LOL

...Have you actually tried casting aside cultural prejudices to research life in the Bayou and Florida swamps or did you dismiss every last bit of it as "LOL HILLBILLIES"?

>>17066557

Well if they have access to iron, they WILL use metal armor of sorts. I would suspect that a light suit made of leather and steel would be ideal. A cuirass, a helmet, pauldrons perhaps. Shin armor. Everything else would most likely be leather. Or leather armor with metal scales, similar to the armor of Greek Hoplites.

>>17066592
Swamp iron is very expensive and time consuming to make (you need to make charcoal first), so they probably won't be making much armour.

>>17066584
Hey, I was referring to the internet's prejudices, not my own.
And I'm creating a culture from a time before the bayou was even colonised, so I needed some other real world examples.
TO be fair, I did come across as kind of a dick. My bad.
>>17066592
>>17066574
I can't imagine hoplite armour working out too well. Unless I'm imagining it heavier in my head.
I'm digging the cloth+leather idea. Maybe the metal could be reserved for the heavy spearmen.
Of course, people who fight in a swamp they know well would probably rely on guerrilla warfare quite a bit.

>>17066646
Yes, poisoned weapons, arrows, horrible traps would be the norm. The deadly swamp environment itself (depending on how far you want to make it) can be an opponent in itself. You could look into the bog devils in A Song of Ice and Fire for some inspiration. They essentially hold a chokepoint halfway through a continent and no one has ever successfully marched a hostile army through their territory.

>>17066646

A linothorax would be ideal, I think. if I recall correctly, they were made from a couple of layers of thick fabric and leather, sometimes covered with metal scales for additional protection.

>>17066643

So metal would mostly be used for weapons, I take it.

Regarding spears, let's not forget they were the main melee weapon everywhere in the world, not just swamps.

Swords were never true weapons of war, they were just fancy shit for nobles; their only uses were for cavalry and as backups for soldiers if the fighting got too close for effective use of their spears.

>>17066682
throw angry snakes at the enemy

>>17065487
>allways assumed some dumbass english speaker misheard Deutch
this is literally the reason - only English speakers call them that

There's a crapload of funny inter-culture naming oddities though. Slavs call us Germans "dumb people" (not as a slur, that's literally what their normal everyday conversation word for Germans is)... as in "not speaking" not "stupid" though.

>>17066741
Um, being a cavalry weapon and a soldier's preferred backup weapon doesn't exactly discount it as a true weapon of war. In fact it kinda makes it the opposite.

>>17066741
How useful would javelins be in a swamp setting? I just have a hardon for javelins and I could see swamp-ninjas carrying three wooden javelins plus one leaf-bladed spear for combat.

>>17066721
>So metal would mostly be used for weapons, I take it.
And not even the whole weapon. You'll see it mostly as spear-heads, arrow-heads, knife-blades, and axe-heads. Too precious to waste on large weapons that may not be all that effective, or only have one use and can't be pressed into service as tools.

Go install Morrowind or Oblivion and read the book about the Armorer's Challenge. Heavy armor (especially on the legs) is a death-sentence in a swamp. Swamp-dwellers go for cheap, fast, and effective. Leather armor, at most. Lots of camouflage, lots of ambush tactics, ghillie suits, traps, and the like.

>>17066766

Amazonian guys like blowdarts, so short javelins could work - not as short as darts, but not so large that it's CANNOT THROW.

>>17066778
So... War darts. Basically tiny throwing spears (foot long at most I guess)?

>>17066764
The true weapons of war were the spear and the bow.

Those were the weapons you would ideally be using in battle. If you found yourself using a sword it means shit went south.

>>17066790
By the way, wouldn't swamp bows be pretty ineffective, due the the damp conditions they couldn't make any cool composite shit.

>>17066776
This.

Shit, go the full Morrowind length. Lightweight chitin armor from giant swamp bugs, assuming this is a fantasy setting.

>>17066778
Speaking of this...how dense of a swamp are we talking? If the trees are particularly close together spears actually might not be a particularly favored weapon of war.

Linothorax does actually sound good, except
> It has been suggested the fabric layers were bonded using animal glue. Although strong, this is water soluble therefore the armour would need protection against rain or sweat if this was indeed used.

>>17066741
Yeah, but I'm willing to let flavour trump realism when it comes to that aspect of a setting.

>>17066807
Fuck, we need to make a setting of swamp warfare and politics.

Atlatls or amentums could be used to throw "war darts"

>>17066790
The true weapons of war were *the weapons you had at hand to kill the enemy*. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't appreciate the beauty of a nice rondel dagger delivered straight through the scrotal sack.

The Inca had regiments of amazonian tribesmen that fired very long airrows that would penetrate the first two or three ranks of the enemy.

>>17066776

I know the book well. It's right next to the skyforge in Skyrim.

I'm envisioning their equipment to look like a cross between Greeks and Zulus. Shields would be large and made of leather and wood, yet small enough to be carried comfortably on the back. A short spear with a long and broad head would be a good close combat weapon, and a small assortment of light throwing spears (perhaps poisoned) gives some long-range assault ability. Then of course there's archers. Maybe they should have compound bows. Not sure about blow darts however.

>>17066807
I actually considered chitin. Might still use it for a different culture.
The thing is, I can't imagine that large, heavily armoured beetles would do that well in a swamp, though it is wet and warm.
>>17066800
Well yeah, but they wouldn't be shooting terribly long distances either, so simple shortbows would still be effective.
Does that actually make sense? I'm afraid I don't know much about weapons or medieval warfare.

>>17066849
tall narrow shiels, so you can run between trees.
Instead of bows maybe javelins with that "elbow" stick used to really give punch and range to javelins, one that doubles as a club perhaps.

>>17066849
I think the blow darts would be mainly assassination weapons. They're seriously silent, even bows make noise and throwing weapons need room for arm movement. All sorts of poisoned caltrops etc could be cool.

>>17066880
Mainly problem would be the bowstrings. They'd have to make them from a single piece of sinew or something, normal strings would just rot away.

>>17066880

Giant centipedes. Go for giant centipedes.

>>17066882
That throw-boosting magic stick thing (I know they're real, just seem incredible) with a handle and perhaps some bone/iron banding for reinforcement, and a couple poisoned spikes for close combat.

>>17066889
specially treated rubberized gator intestine.
only the strongest part will do so a hunter has to kill a gator on his won to get the choice piece of gut.

>>17066896
Trained giant attack centipedes would scare the fuck out of me

>>17066880
Oh, and I wasn't thinking of an immensely thick swamp. In fact, the main city would be in the surrounding marshes, with some fishing towns and stuff in the swamps.
The thing is, the only approach to the outer marshes would be through the swamps, so there's a tactical advantage too.

>>17066889
>Use Atlatls
>Not a single fuck was given

>>17066880
Not beetles. Roaches. And they wouldn't be that large, you'd have to make the armor like scale armor, with each 4-inch-long roach's shell treated and stitched together onto a leather backing. Flexible, plyable, lightweight, but hard to break through directly.

>>17066889
Gator tendons, maybe? Waste no part of the kill and all that...

>>17066926
>>17066904
Gator tendon now canon

>>17066926

I'd expect a gator to have very short tendons... I should look up the anatomy real quick.

why is this not yet archived?

>>17066930

No no, hang on. Someone mentioned the string would have to be made out of sinew since other materials would rot. However, a quick wiki dive says that sinew and rawhide strings are easily affected by water. Silk strings might be optimal but hard to come by, so Linen or Hemp might be optimal.

>>17066950
Do threads get archived often on tg ? I've only been a regular on this board for two weeks and i've already seen four threads get archived.

>>17066922
"As well as its practical use as a hunting weapon, it may also have had social effects. John Whittaker, an anthropologist at Grinnell College, Iowa, suggests the device was a social equaliser in that *it requires skill rather than muscle power alone*. Thus women and children would have been able to participate in hunting"

Elite female only squad, Atlamazons.

>>17066926
Interesting. I've never been a big fan of scale mail, visually, but we could always go the simple route of having them wear a shirt over it or something.

>>17066982

We've got our own archive server, so we can afford archival much more often.

suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

Have fun digging through /tg/ history.

>>17066990
And kids as scouts and ambushers up in the trees.
Squeaky voice : "rain death upon the enemy !"

>>17066990
The queen/matriarch/whatever(haven't decided social structure yet)'s personal hunting retinue seems like a good bet to me. Easily usable in a war because they'd be trained in quietly stalking targets already and they'd just hit and run.

>>17066990
>>17066922
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woomera_%28spear-thrower%29

Woomera, combines a buckler, a stone hatchet, and cup/plate with a atlatl.

>>17067027
According to Eric Willmot, a leading Aboriginal scholar, a woomera and spear were the fastest weapons in the world until the invention of the self-loading rifle.[3]
*The extra energy gained from the woomera's use has been calculated as -four- times as much as from a compound bow.[2]*

>>17067027
>Many woomeras had a sharp stone cutting edge attached to the end of the handle with black gum from the triodia plant. This sharp tool had many uses and was commonly used for cutting up game or other food and cutting wood.
>The woomera could be used as a shield for protection against spears and boomerangs.
>a woomera and spear were the fastest weapons in the world until the invention of the self-loading rifle.[3] The extra energy gained from the woomera's use has been calculated as four times as much as from a compound bow.
Okay, fuck the gator tendons. This is awesome.

>>17067056

You should look up some pictures of those woomeras. They look like hollow clubs, sort of like leaves even. It'd seem obvious to me that they use dyes and carvings to make them look like stylized leaves.

In fact, they should focus on camouflage. We haven't touched on that subject too much yet.

>>17067085
Tree bark worn over clothes
Using reeds to breathe underwater
Giant flesh-eating attack centipedes

>>17067085
Aside from dull colours and smearing mud on your face, I'm not seeing much.

Phillippino weapons.

>>17067085
Leaves or... Wodoo masks!
Have them stalk though the swamp at night, covered in dark mud, enemies scared shitless at the whistling noise of javelins whizzing by punching though plate, nailing limbs to trees, cruel barbs tearign at exposed flesh, the only visible foe ghastly luminescent demon faces whizzing by.

>>17067122
Always wondered, what's up with the wavy-blade dagger designs?

>>17067095
>Giant flesh-eating attack centipedes
Too grimdark for regular use.
Although if I made a House Telvanni style bunch of crazy swamp dwelling mage-scientists that would be awesome.

>>17067141
Rib-braking, or so I heard.

>>17067141
Like a breadknife

>>17067095
You'll be needing a pouch of herbs that produce potent aromatic chemicals coincidal with the centipede's pheromonal responses to control the beasties - perhaps delivering prey-scent gobbets via blowpipe.

>>17065710
>>17065754
>>17065817
>>17066303

Good lord, I thought /tg/ usually had it's sources and spoke intelligently.

Alright, osmosis in one minute: Water will seek to have a balance of water-to-not-water. Therefore, if you have 95% water on one side of a membrane, and 96% water on the other, and the membrane allows movement of water, water from the 96% side will flow to the 95% side.

Now, your cells allow the movement of water. When water that has a lower osmolarity is outside, water will leave the cells, causing them to shrivel. This is why, when you have swelling in the brain, doctors will inject saline with a higher salinity than the typical osmolarity of cells. Water comes out of your brain into your blood vessels; swelling hopefully comes down.

In the macrolevel, your skin will shrivel as it loses water, because most water you see has a much lower osmolarity than the water in our body.

Ta-da!

What about arboreal troops? I don't mean treehouses or anything like that, I mean troops that are trained to move and hide in the treeline, dropping poison, dart volleys, or giant centipede attack pheromones on unsuspecting troops

>>17067189
Wait, wouldn't osmotic pressure mean that your cells would bloat in response to contact with a source of low-salt water?

brb, settling this issue

Giant centipedes are rare and dangerous, so they're only used by the ruling house to kill off rivals or invaders.

>>17067141
A straight blade can "seal up" the wound behind it as the length of the blade fills in the wound and the blade's edges meet those of the wound, and the bleeding is limited so long as the blade is not withdrawn.

A wave-edged blade is irregular, and thus there is no "seal", so the blood flows freely even with the blade in place.

>>17067200
Kertain layers in skin absorb water more than other layers, the keratin expands but other layers don't, causing your skin to buckle.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-do-fingers-wrinkle-in
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/wrinkles.html

>>17067206

Or lunch.

>>17067194
Was mentionned in passing.>>17067017
Some trees could be hollowed out in peace time to serve as an ambush spot when SHTF.

>>17067200
Not just salt. Seriously, after you get shriveled skin, put your hand in a bowl of distilled water, and you'll see the skin return to normal after a bit.

>>17067225
Are there any naturally occurring substances in swamps that can be harvested?
Because then you could totally make IEDs out of hollowed trees.

>>17067260
Naturally occurring explosive*, derp

>>17067226
Really? That would seem to contradict the explanation in
>>17067220

And you already said that the water has a lower concentration of dissolved solute than the cells normally contain, so why would distilled water (an even lower concentration) reverse anything?

>>17067264
"swamp gas" is mostly methane and hydrogen from decaying organic detritus, mostly in the form of rotting plant matter.

>>17067271
(cont)
You said that skin shrivels because it loses water, but then you said that the water has lower concentration of solutes than cells!

>When water that has a lower osmolarity is outside, water will leave the cells
Isn't that backwards?

Does not compute
>>17067189

>>17067220

I could swear reading in Scientific American that it had to do with an automatic reaction dealing with wet conditions.

Let me see if I can find the article on the Internet.

>>17067286
I heard that swamp gas can be dangerous.
Only problem is that, well, it's a gas.
I suppose you could just heap some rotten plant matter inside a hollowed out tree and set that on fire. Depending on how explosive it is, precisely.

>>17067294

Something that should have been done in the first place. It's skin turning pruny, not a wholly unexplored field of quantum physics.

>>17067294

The article I first read it in requires a digital subscription to read, but I was able to find this.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=water-logged-prune-fingers-grip-better

>>17067306

It had seemed to me that discussion on the topic had died in favor of getting back to the thread, so I didn't bother.

My apologies.

>>17067297
collect the gas in some sort of container, equip container with fuse... FOOM.

>ctrl f
>no-one mentions the Olmec
>mfw

the olmecs built an entire massive civilization in the swamps of southern mexico. Look into some of the stuff they did, it's pretty badass

>>17067264
I'm sure a proper alchemist can find the ingredients in the local organisms.
Wich reminds me, peat (a flamable substance) is found in swamps and was quite expensive before the XXth century.

>>17067271
Well...
Soil, Plant refuse, Corpses and Excrement makes saltpeter mounds.
Charcoal is easily attained, and sulfur can be found in areas rich in natural gas.

do ho ho

>>17067314
I remember reading that summary now too.

What you misremembered was it being a directed response from the nervous system. It's still an automatic consequence of the epidermis structure responding to wet conditions. It's just that that epidermis structure might have an adaptation that improves grip in those conditions.

>>17067355
>Olmec Diet
A nearby garden was used for medicinal and cooking herbs and for smaller crops such as the domesticated sunflower. Fruit trees, such as avocado or cacao, were likely available nearby.

Although the river banks were used to plant crops between flooding periods, the Olmecs also likely practiced swidden (or slash-and-burn) agriculture to clear the forests and shrubs, and to provide new fields once the old fields were exhausted.[83] Fields were located outside the village, and were used for maize, beans, squash, manioc, sweet potato, as well as cotton. Based on archaeological studies of two villages in the Tuxtlas Mountains, it is known that maize cultivation became increasingly important to the Olmec over time, although the diet remained fairly diverse.[84]

The fruits and vegetables were supplemented with fish, turtle, snake, and mollusks from the nearby rivers, and crabs and shellfish in the coastal areas. Birds were available as food sources, as were game including peccary, opossum, raccoon, rabbit, and in particular, deer.[85] Despite the wide range of hunting and fishing available, midden surveys in San Lorenzo have found that the domesticated dog was the single most plentiful source of animal protein.[86]"

>>17067367
What? Pruny skin is relevant to swampy conditions.

>>17067355

Fuck yes swamp Mayans.

Now I have to do some doodles of a warrior in leather armor with maya-style decorations.

>>17067382

Ahh, thank you. It had been a while since I'd read the article it was mentioned in, so I'm not surprised I forgot something.

>>17067402
Way to miss the joke

>>17067367
/r/ the blue girls one again.

In any case, I think we've got the basic aspects of the military and survival locked down.
Let's work on the culture for a bit.
I was planning on having the marsh city have a governor or a lord while smaller swamp towns would be pretty much free, egalitarian societies.
Honestly, I don't see these places getting too big. In fact, I can imagine some of the smaller villages being no bigger than Seyda Neen.
As for culture as such, maybe they could have a series of ornate markers that they placed around the swamp to help them find their way? While there would still be signposts and stuff, sometimes it would be hard to keep on the path without tree carvings or something.

>>17067422
... it's not about a thread supposedly going way off-topic?
It's a joke about /tg/ being meticulous in attention to detail?

Well.... yeah. That's true.

>>17067433
I really can't see swampmen forming kingdoms. They would probably have a confederate/city state structure. At most some settlements might form hegemonies around them like the Aztec empire.

>>17067433

Well, I like the idea of their art being somewhat Mayan/Inca like.

>>17067493
Maya/Inca/Aztec/Malaysian

>>17067489
Well, most of the actual swamp towns would live pretty much independent of higher political authority, save taxes and stuff. On a day to day basis, they'd be left alone.
Although a group of ruling Houses with their own electorate for ruler might work better. I could even give them their own flavour depending on how far into the swamp or out in the marsh they live.

Take a look at the Asmat. Should be pretty good inspiration and you can't really get more swamp-dweller-y than them

How about ancient ruins of old civillisations, half sunk in the marshes because of natural decay and poor design?

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html

Go there, start voting.

>>17067676

Sounds like what I envision Black Marsh looks like.

>>17067676
Ancient? Not necessarily.
Maybe there could be more or less intact ghost towns that were the result of expansionism by another culture that favours large or stone buildings that were abandoned when they realised that they had pretty terrible ideas.

>>17067789

Well, if they filled the swamp with rubble, it would work.

Going off your Telvanni-ish mages earlier-
maybe a breakaway animist group who practice natural empathy through magic? Like animal commanding and stuff.

>>17067001
well, the coloration also lends itself towards camouflage.

>>17067433
If they're anything like Cajuns, leadership is less important. Each family looks to its matriarch and patriarch (Grampa/Paw and Gramma/Nanna/Maw). Trying to control groups of families is like herding herds of cats. They're going to do exactly what needs to be done as best they understand it, and you'd best phrase any advice you have as helpful suggestions because you do NOT want to insinuate that they don't know what they're doing. They do. They don't need a command structure, and they actually work best without them. If you absolutely need to settle a dispute, you take it to the family elders. If they're deadlocked or Paw can't make up his mind, you call in the family elders of the next closest family to help arbitrate over dinner. When it's done it's done, and everyone shuts their mouth and goes their separate ways.

>>17069895
That sounds like a fine idea for a smaller society, but I'm basing them off equal bits SEAsia and South American, so cajun ideas are hardly relevant.
In fact, would family be terribly important in such a setting? Because of how swamps slow movement, the initial settlers probbably would have founded a number of towns over a relatively small area, but after they started carving roads and waypaths into the trees, mobility becomes much easier, between the villages at least.
In fact, I'm thinking of a society where young adults are expected to leave their village and wander through the swamp performing seasonal make work until they get a serious career or settle down with somebody.

>>17070021
Then it's not that much a bog devil society, is it?

>>17071045
I'm not basing them off the bog devils.
Nor am I basing them off the cajuns.
Nor the Incas(not exclusively, at least)
These guys aren't going to be very warlike. Over time, people have learned better than to fuck with the Saday, and the fact that most of their young men and women are trained in survival, travel, and hunting in the swamps means they have an almost instantly accessible military pool.
Not to mention the edicts that call for the Saday empath-magi to send forth their centipede hordes and worm boils.

>>17071080

Sweet, so we can now use magic to a certain degree to flesh it out?

Shamans with herbs and hallucinogens going in trances and all that.

Agriculture in a swamp is difficult, mainly due to all the water. So hunter-gatherer societies are probably the easiest.
That being said, there's two broad categories to make agriculture work. You either

A) Drain the land - this requires a lot of energy. The Dutch harnessed windmills for this mainly.

B) Breed crops that thrive in lots of water. Rice is a good example of a crop that thrives in a water-rich environment.

Likely you'd also see a lot of innovations that make getting around a swamp practical. Canoes or barges for long journeys are a must, as well as some sort of solid boot (likely made from leather) or alternately a raised platform shoe (maybe made from wood).

Also, swamps vary pretty widely the world over, so having a clear picture of the sort of swamp will vastly affect the sort of civilization you put in. You could have anything from marshy peat bogs to silent forests of forbidding mangroves. Swamps are a lot of fun and really an underrated sort of environment for an adventure. There's a lot of environmental hazards that are more subtle than a barren desert or tundra.